2014 Silly Season

[Sulland]

What teams, Works and private will we see in 2014?
What drivers will get seats in these in WRC and WRC2?

[Mirek]

What so silly is about 2014 season? Every year You name the thread a "XXXX Silly Season", why?

[noel157]

What so silly is about 2014 season? Every year You name the thread a "XXXX Silly Season", why?

LOl....

[A FONDO]

it is a phrase from the F1 world, does not mean literally silly (stupid)

[Leon]

The main question is the destination of Neuville if he decides to leave M- sport.

[A FONDO]

Why should he leave it at all?????

[Leon]

Why should he leave it at all?????

money, more chances to win, who knows?

[dimviii]

Why should he leave it at all?????

to go to the centre of universe?

[Zeakiwi]

Could Citroen stretch the budget so Sordo joins Loeb and Muller in the WTCC for a three car team ? For Sordo every round is a tarmac round and there are no notes to make, Sordo could run a test set up (new parts etc) in races for data collection while Loeb and Muller run the established set up.

[Brother John]

Why should we have already SILLY ideas here for 2014? :(

[tommeke_B]

What is silly is how long it takes before the calendar is published. In august 2012 everything for Sweden 2013 was booked. Now we don't even know when the events are held... For Neuville it will be a very difficult choice. The comeback of Pirelli is an extra factor to keep in mind. Is M-Sport going to sign a deal with Pirelli? ;)

[Eli]

maybe Hyundai will join forces alongside Pirelli?

[Andre Oliveira]

My prediction:

Volkswagen
Ogier
Mikkelsen
Hanninen

Ford
Neuville
Ostberg
Sordo

Citroen
Latvala
Solberg
Novikov

Hyundai
Hirvonen
Bouffier
Atkinson

Ahah, dream, not prediction

[Toyoda]

Swap Paddon for Solberg

[mohit]

why swap solberg

solberg was performing far better in privately entered citoren so give him a chance

[Toyoda]

Solberg crashes to much, as much as I love him, times are changing, have changed, you need tidy drivers now

[mohit]

in ford that 2012 he had that problem (solberg)

before that in privately entered citoren he was faster and consistent but citoren restricted his car always

he did many fast stage in 2012 check records once he can be consistent as, loeb is gone now psychological pressure will be far less on him now.

[Mirek]

before that in privately entered citoren he was faster and consistent but citoren restricted his car always

Any proof for that?

[mohit]

i know every one here follows wrc on regular bases hence i don't need to submit a proof.

any ways every one has there own view point and theories so i don't want to get in to that discussion now.

i have just forwarded my idea and you have right to disagree.

[NxOxT]

LOL... another little boy who saw his idol being demolished by the master and beaten to retirement...

[Brother John]

why swap solberg

solberg was performing far better in privately entered citoren so give him a chance

What is a citoren??? :confused: Or you have to learn to write??? :erm:

[mohit]

oh my bad

citroen is good for you now cheers ;)

[Duvel]

My guess:

Vw: Same as 2013 Ogier, Latvalla and Mikkelsen
Hyundai: Hirvonen, Hanninen, and selected events whit 3th car for Paddon
M-sport: Ostberg, Novikov, Evans, Nasser.
Citroen: Neuville, Khalid, Meeke for gravel events, and Dani on tarmac.

Don't forget Matton is a belgian, could wel be a factor for Neuville.

For me this would be great line-up for the factory teams, and a hope that Peugeot will replace Citroen after the 2014 season. Thatway Neuville maybe can get full factory support by 2015, when nobody is talking about a crisis anymore!

Also hoping for a return of mister hollywood! second half of the season junior wrc team from Hyundai whit Paddon and Solberg?

Just guessing ofcorse!

[Rallyper]

VW: Ogier, Latvala, Tidemand
Hyundai: Mikko, Mikkelsen, Hanninen
Citroen: Neuville, Ostberg, Meeke/Sordo
Ford: Solberg, Novikov, Evans

[sollitt]

Unsurprisingly many of you continue to wear the blinkers when it comes to whose deserving of a factory drive.
The view that any contender must already be in a WRC car is nonsense and frankly, if Citroen had always adopted that policy we would never have seen Loeb or Ogier as we have.
Many of you lauded Meeke as Citroen's saviour before Rally Australia and, despite his spectacular failings, continue to talk of him as "having shown the speed to be competitive" and deserving of another go. What utter nonsense.
At the time of his first accident he was just 4th having set a couple of 2nd's and 3rd's and a string of 5th's, 6th's & 7th's and already over a minute behind Ogier.
The only drivers he was competitive with were the under performers who have indelibly marked the WRC for the past 10 or so years.

If we are to avoid a repeat of the last decade, decision makers are going to have to think outside the box. And they're going to have to do some legwork to find real contenders. At all levels of this sport, including WRC, the most talented are often lacking in resource and therefore not immediately apparent.

If there was a revelation at all in Australia it was Paddon. Forget about who his WRC2 competition was and compare his performance to the WRC cars. In a car that ought to have been over 2 seconds a kilometre slower than a WRC car he averaged just one second per kilometre slower than Meeke, over the stages they both contested, and a little over one and a half seconds slower than Ogier.
He placed 6th in the power stage and, with the removal of his penalties and time losses from Day 2, would have completed the event about equal with Novikov (7th).
This in an outdated normally aspirated car reputedly held together with string which had no business travelling anything like the speed it did.
Paddon's commitment was obvious, his car placement inch perfect and his speed spectacular. But there's nothing new about that. He alone, along with perhaps Neuville, has the ability to take the fight to Ogier and would be immediately competitive.

If any one of Matton, Wilson or Nandan do not, at the very least, invite Paddon to test their car before the season's out, with the prospect of a 2014 seat , they are simply not doing their job.
They're not doing their job for their teams, they're not doing their job for their sponsors, and they're not doing their job for the championship.

[skarderud]

Maybe its time to take a look in the lower classes, lots of fast youngguns around in different 2wd machinery. Maybe give them a learningyear in an R5 or as a juniorteam, but i doubt future wrcchampions is people with lots of wrc-experience:)

[tiger36]

If there was a revelation at all in Australia it was Paddon. Forget about who his WRC2 competition was and compare his performance to the WRC cars. In a car that ought to have been over 2 seconds a kilometre slower than a WRC car he averaged just one second per kilometre slower than Meeke, over the stages they both contested, and a little over one and a half seconds slower than Ogier.
He placed 6th in the power stage and, with the removal of his penalties and time losses from Day 2, would have completed the event about equal with Novikov (7th).

S2000 'over' 2s/km slower than wrc?
Padding 'little' over 1.5s/km slower than Ogier?

So that put Paddon 'easy' 0.5s/km ahead of Ogier?
:laugh: :laugh:

If I where you I take a bank loan and invest in Paddon.
Bank man would love your theory.

Ever heard of road cleaning.
Paddon is good.
But less dreaming and more educational calculation please.

[Mirek]

To be precise, Ogier in S2000 was 0,9 s/km slower (RMC), 1,3 s/km (Sweden), 2,3 s/km (Mexico for obvious reason), 1,1 s/km (Portugal), 1,5 s/km (Argentina), 1,9 s/km (Acropolis), 1,7 s/km (Finland), 1,6 s/km (Germany), 1,8 s/km (Wales), 1,3 s/km (Alsace), 0,8 s/km (Sardegna), in Catalunya he did too few stages. That's average 1,5 s/km but the differences between events were too big to say that Paddon was on Ogier's pace.

[sollitt]

Mirek, you're absolutely right. The differences between the cars will vary depending on events.
The point though is that Paddon is driving the car both on the limit and accurately everywhere. And that is all that is possible.
The other 'candidates' for WRC drives being spoken about here do not have a history of doing so and consequently are destined to remain in the lottery for the lower placings without ever realistically challenging the leaders.
In contrast Paddon has won, or been dominant, in every category of car he's ever sat his arse in. The next level is really another step well within his capability.

[NxOxT]

there is a difference between driving a WRC car competitively and driving a lesser car competitively... it is not the same thing... last year Ogier was struggling to beat Mikkelsen in an s2000... Kopecky is another example and also Hanninen, Henning and many many others...

I am not rulling out that paddon could be a challenger but as Neuville showed you need a lot of time in a WRC seat to do that... and you do not always succeed.

[Sulland]

What so silly is about 2014 season? Every year You name the thread a "XXXX Silly Season", why?

The reason is that I actually go back to these threads and have a look once and awhile, to see if what we thought and meant turns out to be the reality.

Maybe it is better to call it silly-season with a dash, but that has to be judged by the native speakers i here. but the expression itself is a normal way of describing the periode where teams and drivers are looking for options for the following season. :D

[sollitt]

there is a difference between driving a WRC car competitively and driving a lesser car competitively... it is not the same thing... .
Actually, there's not. There is a step up in the game but mastering the car is probably the easiest part. And when you are a perpetual winner, as Paddon is, both are well within your grasp.
This game is no different from any other ... it is the top two inches that separate winners from losers.
Paddon is a winner and a WRC is just another seat to win in.

[NxOxT]

you are wrong. Again. sorry.

Many were winners in lesser classes but when they came to WRC they failed...

[Mirek]

there is a difference between driving a WRC car competitively and driving a lesser car competitively... it is not the same thing... last year Ogier was struggling to beat Mikkelsen in an s2000... Kopecky is another example and also Hanninen, Henning and many many others...

Generally I do agree with You but I would not choose Hänninen and Kopecký as examples. Why?

Hänninen did only few single events in WRC cars with just very short or no testing. A success in WRC needs more than to try. It's the top league where details are crucial. I'm sure Juho knows that as he drove for factory team but he is getting older so I guess he tried to gamble with his limited chances. After all if he drives for Hyundai he might be successful in that attempt to get a factory WRC seat ;)

Kopecký did more events in WRC car but never with competitive one. When he drove few events for factory team he was completely unexperienced newcomer and later he was just a privateer with outdated car (although he and his father's team managed to make it better than the factory ones it was still reasonably outdated, especially the 20V engine which was lacking over 100 Nm to competitors in 2007). Since 2007 he has never done a single rally with WRC car. I'm pretty sure that he is faster and much more consistent driver now but I'm also sure that he is not of the very top drivers in the world except maybe on certain events.

[NxOxT]

there are millions of examples through the years...sola, carlsson, duval, loix, alister macre and the list goes on and on on...

[Mirek]

As I said I do agree with You but I would not picked those two, nothing else ;)

[ThomasS]

The point is if he isn't given a chance to show what he can do in a WRC car nobody is ever really going to know... And yes the past is littered with talent that has ultimately proved mediocre, but hind sight is a splendid thing for a fool.
Sollitt is right , given his current and past form he has done more than any of the up and coming talent to be given a chance.

Apparently he tested a WRC car after rally GB last year ?

[sollitt]

you are wrong. Again. sorry.
Many were winners in lesser classes but when they came to WRC they failed...
Not wrong at all NxOxT. You have decided these other people, and their performances, are comparable.
In reality they are not.
The step up will always be much higher, and therefore more difficult, for some than for others.

[jens]

Next year Citroen line-up could be Neuville-Kubica in my view. And I somehow doubt Hyundai will take two Finns though who knows. Paddon sounds likely in Hyundai.

[Eli]

driver's line up will be more interesting than next year's calendar

[tommeke_B]

driver's line up will be more interesting than next year's calendar
The calendar is far more interesting than your complaints about the calendar. :)

[Eli]

lol

[Bartolbia84]

Lorenzo Bertelli start WRC2 season 2014 with Ford Fiesta R5 by Fuckmatiè WRT

[kober]

What about the following line-up?
VW: Ogier, Latvala
VW II: Mikkelsen
Citroen: Neuville, Sordo
Abu Dhabi: Al Qassimi, Kubica
M-Sport: Ostberg, Novikov
Qatar: Al-Attiyah, Evans/Paddon
Hyundai: Hanninen, Atkinson/Bouffier

Notably without a WRC drive: Hirvonen, Meeke

PS. I hope that one day a true manufacturers' title will come back, i.e. with all cars of a marque eligible to score points.

[skarderud]

No, i dont think so.

In vw 2, i think its one more driver, tidemand/lappi maybe? Or some other youngster.
Citroën going to develope new, young drivers, so one old one, and 2 youngsters? Kubica in one car for sure!
Ford and Qatar wont let neuville go, then its over for Ford in wrc i think. Neuville and østberg is theire team, acording to several intervjues with both malcom and nasser.

I dont know if some teams going to use specialists at some events? Sordo at tarmac?

[dimviii]

Clearly, I am now in a better position than a year ago. I no longer I have to wait until December. The decision will be made before the end of the month. If I'm in rallying is to become official driver. It is clear that I will make the best decision for me, without thinking about what is best for other people.
That last sentence is clear and seems to refer to his friend Nasser Al-Attiyah or Malcolm Wilson (whose budget in M-Sport may depend on the decision of the Belgian). The latest rumor was born yesterday, still in the hangover of the triumph of Sébastien Ogier, where Colin Clark (the official voice of WRC ) said he heard that Neuville has many ballots to team up with Mikko Hirvonen and might be asked to join Craig Breen , that would pilot the third unit of i20 WRC Hyundai would liza for several rallies in 2014.

http://www.motorpasionf1.com/mundial-ra ... al-en-2014 (http://www.motorpasionf1.com/mundial-rallies/thierry-neuville-quiere-ser-piloto-oficial-en-2014)

[kober]

Why would Neuville choose Hyundai over Citroen (granted the latter is an option)? Money?

[dimviii]

Why would Neuville choose Hyundai over Citroen (granted the latter is an option)? Money?

Neuville imho will go to Citroen.Think that this is the best solution for him and for us if we want to see some fights next year with Ogier and vw.

[Rallyper]

If Neuville will go to Citroen (which I have predicted before) for sure we´ll see Mikko in a Ford next year, together with Mads and Evgtenij...

[RAS007]

If Neuville will go to Citroen (which I have predicted before) for sure we´ll see Mikko in a Ford next year, together with Mads and Evgtenij...

Please no. Mikko is finished.

[WUff1]

If Neuville will go to Citroen (which I have predicted before) for sure we´ll see Mikko in a Ford next year, together with Mads and Evgtenij...

Please no. Mikko is finished.

If Neuvill goes to Citroen, there´s no more - or at least less - money from Quatar for M-Sport.

[faateris]

If Neuvile not stay in Ford, this will be mistake, like Latvala in best shape go to VW, like M.Martin from Ford to Peogeot.
Money, money, money.....
Neuvile this year get used to the Ford, next year to Hyundai, Citroen and......? Why?
I think Hirvonen's move to Citroen was mistake to. He was faster at Ford.

[makinen_fan]

If this goes ahead with final stage shoot-out then it will be a silly season next year

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110449

[Mirek]

If this goes ahead I promise not to follow WRC anymore. I'm aware RedBull and Capito don't care about myself but I hope I'm not alone...

[thuGG]

If this goes ahead with final stage shoot-out then it will be a silly season next year

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110449

What a load of bullshit.

[dimviii]

http://twitter.com/Hyundai_UK_PR/status ... to/1/large (http://twitter.com/Hyundai_UK_PR/status/387486983934996480/photo/1/large)

[dimviii]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm ... index.html (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2013/10/08/oestberg-verkehrte-welt-im-servicepark/index.html)

[skarderud]

Its a long time ago i understand that fia and redbull media (or any other with money as theire god), not working for us fans....

They going to make wrc to a global rallycross/nascar thing that will attract lots of youtubefans that dont won't to walk into the forest to see the real stuff. They want more crashes, like in nascar there everyone is watching to see if someone going to be killed against the concretewall. Hopefully i have wrong...

Aiai, i sounds like the anglogreek.....

[RS]

Many of you lauded Meeke as Citroen's saviour before Rally Australia and, despite his spectacular failings, continue to talk of him as "having shown the speed to be competitive"


I think you are going to get a nasty surprise if you expect Paddon to be quicker than that and error-free immediately in a WRCar. Meeke was quicker in OZ and Finland than people like Ostberg, Novikov, Sordo despite having a massive experience deficit.

Ok, Meeke is a little older but it took Neuville around a year to really get up to speed and he still has some learning to do in terms of reliability too but I think you'll find it hard to find anyone round here who wouldn't agree that he looks like the only serious opposition to Ogier any time soon.

It takes time... people like Ostberg, Novikov, even Hirvonen and maybe Sordo have had plenty. But don't attack someone like Meeke who has had very little.

As for Paddon I think he or his management made a mistake by not placing him in IRC in the last years as it was the only serious support championship to WRC in recent times. All the new or developing WRC talent who people are talking about now have come from there (Neuville, Hanninen, Meeke, Bouffier, Mikkelsen) I think you really need to compare yourself on the same event in the same class of car to other decent drivers in order to really judge the performance.

[stefanvv]

If this goes ahead I promise not to follow WRC anymore. I'm aware RedBull and Capito don't care about myself but I hope I'm not alone...
No, you aren't. This will be a disaster for the Rally sport. I hope Todt remains cool about it.

[mohit]

M-sport: Mikko, Ostberg, Novikov (if petter pays heavily then may be M-sport too)
Citroen: Petter, Neuville/Sordo
Hyundia: Sordo, Meeke/Petter and 3rd Atkinson
VW: Ogier, Latvala, Andreas

[Mintexmemory]

I shall be wearing the anti last stage T-Shirt in Wales but it may be too late by then! What the hell is Capito saying? The true way to ensure the winner has completed all stages is just to say super rally only counts behind cars that have completed the whole event.

[Mintexmemory]

M-sport: Mikko, Ostberg, Novikov (if petter pays heavily then may be M-sport too)
Citroen: Petter, Neuville/Sordo
Hyundia: Sordo, Meeke/Petter and 3rd Atkinson
VW: Ogier, Latvala, Andreas

Well I'd be willing to lay a very large number of beers that none of the team listings here will be correct. VW being the closest, the rest have only 3 correct picks among the total

[mohit]

to be honest power stage concept is also not that great,

FIA should take steps back in rallying such as old style services were goods which were done in-between the competitive stages and more spectator areas should be made in the stages.

[Mirek]

FIA should take steps back in rallying such as old style services were goods which were done in-between the competitive stages and more spectator areas should be made in the stages.

How do You want to make it realistic idea in dense 21st century traffic? Rallies are held also in heavily populated areas.

[mohit]

it's possible to manage traffic rally takes place over 2 to 3 days only so little effort from FIA and local federations will make it possible.

[A FONDO]

The drivers in 10th and ninth would battle for ninth place, the same for eighth and seventh all the way down to the driver in second place against the rally leader. The fastest time on the single stage would secure the position and rally victory.
battling for one position up or down is a good idea. what I don't like is that the best drivers will still have the chance to "win" the rally even if they made a mistake earlier. we (unlike Kapito) don't need more dominance.

[Mirek]

it's possible to manage traffic rally takes place over 2 to 3 days only so little effort from FIA and local federations will make it possible.

No, it's not always possible. Rallies are often held in places without many alternative routes. See for example Monte Carlo where the very few mountain roads are already totally packed even without them being used as service. It can be done in some countries but definitely not everywhere which itself disqualifies that idea as rules shall be same for all events.

[makinen_fan]

battling for one position up or down is a good idea.

Remember Rally NZ few year back where Seb O, Seb L and JML were battling for victory. In this concept this will not be possible even if all first three drivers are separates by very small margin. What's good about the idea? That you have a knock out each time? Better watch another sport than rallying.

[stefanvv]

I'd rather accept an idea every day to have bonus points. Thus the drivers will be motivated to to count on Rally2.

[kober]

Just a few ideas for the promotor:
1. Keep the rallies as they are - i.e. minimum three legs, 25-18-15-etc championship points; modify Rally 2 to have the penalty for the uncompleted stages based on the percentage of the stage winner's time, e.g 135% (longer the stage, bigger the penalty). Do not count the Power Stage into the overall classification.
2. Modify the Power Stage to be a mini-event for the top eight, as the following. Do not run it on a mickey mouse stages.
- quarter-finals, based on the regular rally result: (a) 1st vs 8th, (b) 2nd vs 7th, (c) 3rd vs 6th, (d) 4th vs 5th
- semi-finals: winner of (a) vs winner of (d); (b) vs (c)
- third place run: grant 1 championship point to the winner
- first place run: grant 3 pt to the winner, 2 pt to the looser.
3. Stream all the stages live on wrc.com website, with live commentary (example: fiawec.com with Radio Le Mans team)

[A FONDO]

battling for one position up or down is a good idea.

Remember Rally NZ few year back where Seb O, Seb L and JML were battling for victory. In this concept this will not be possible even if all first three drivers are separates by very small margin. What's good about the idea? That you have a knock out each time? Better watch another sport than rallying.
what will not be possible, i can't understand anything from you

[NxOxT]

what Makinen says is that if we have 3 drivers battling for the win then it would be unfair to exclude the driver No3 from the battle and make him battle with the driver No4 for 3rd place...

This system is plain retarded... so no.

[[WRCRR]]

battling for one position up or down is a good idea.

Remember Rally NZ few year back where Seb O, Seb L and JML were battling for victory. In this concept this will not be possible even if all first three drivers are separates by very small margin. What's good about the idea? That you have a knock out each time? Better watch another sport than rallying.
what will not be possible, i can't understand anything from you

What he means that in the new system proposed by the FIA each driver in the top 10 would only be battling for one position up. Ie. 10-9 for position 9, 8-7 for position 7, 6-5 for position 5, 4-3 for position 3 and 2-1 for position 1. Therefore in a situation where there would be three (or even more) drivers challenging for the win before the last stage (for example separated only by couple of seconds), in the new system only the 2 best drivers after the penultimate stage would have the chance to fight for the win, as drivers placed 3-4 after the penultimate stage would only battle for position 3.

In my opinion, this kind of system would be ridiculous!

EDIT: Beaten by NOT...thanks =)

[A FONDO]

in a situation where there would be three (or even more) drivers challenging
this happens once in 5 years. bad argument

p.s. there will always be unhappy people whatever rules are present. the most important now is to add more drama after the first day.

[NxOxT]

in a situation where there would be three (or even more) drivers challenging
this happens once in 5 years. bad argument

p.s. there will always be unhappy people whatever rules are present. the most important now is to add more drama after the first day.

it happens once in five years when it comes to decide the winner.... for lower places we have battles of 3 drivers far more often and also we have the WRC2 and WRC3 categories... so no.

[rallyfun]

What's wrong with Capito and RB?

[AndyRAC]

How about the fastest driver winning? I really give up with all these gimmicks; which is why I follow Sportscars as much as WRC nowadays..... I can't imagine a 24 hour race being decided by who had the fastest lap in the final hour..... Almost ignoring the previous 6/12/24 hours..... :mad:

Please stop meddling with the sport - in a few years they'll think of something else.

As for SupeRally/Rally2, simple - if you use Rally2, you can't finish above someone who has done the full event.

[wrc1600]

Aren't the power stage and Rally2 controversial enough to bring new nonsens in?

[Rallyper]

Maybe we should go back to the old points system 10-8-6 etz, and make the championship maybe a bit more exciting now when Ogier is going to rule for several years to come?

Capito maybe is afraid Ogier is gonna win the WRC so much the PR will be useless winning.

[makinen_fan]

Simply Capito and RB are not rally minded people and do not see the traditional side of things. They just want to expand their audience. It is true that rallying is not a live friendly sport as it is at the moment but if this comes at a price of spoiling our beloved sport, no thank you. Live radio and timing (when it works) is enough for me.

[Andre Oliveira]

-> Rally2 don't count to final classification
-> All cars of the make can score points to manufacter championship

[Barreis]

Live tv (as seen last weekend) is great...

[Plan9]

Does anyone know if anyone will use a MINI next season?

[danon]

Oh my... FIA, consider this next...

The winner of the last stage of a rally
gets the victory along with all the titles won over
the previous years by the second finished one as a bonus :laugh:

[NxOxT]

I think they have a wrong mind set... they try to make rallying exciting the thing is rallying is exciting without changing anything...what they should focus on is making it more accessible to people and there are two way of doing that first is the TV and second the Internet. For example a few years back they had that virtual spectator thing but you had to pay for it... if they could provided it for free it would be a very nice addition, also live TV France style is also very good...

for the fans they could organise small live shows ken block style before teach rally (some rallies like argentina have them) just for the fun of it, yes it would attract some subhuman species who are into drift shows and other stuff but it could also attract the uninitiated who might want to get a taste in the surrounding mountains where the real action is.

Also since the competiton is not that good nowadays and for some years now they should employ the old top 6 finishers get points system.

all these "vs" ideas are stupid, it would change the whole idea of the sport...

[Rallyper]

I think they have a wrong mind set... they try to make rallying exciting the thing is rallying is exciting without changing anything...what they should focus on is making it more accessible to people and there are two way of doing that first is the TV and second the Internet. For example a few years back they had that virtual spectator thing but you had to pay for it... if they could provided it for free it would be a very nice addition, also live TV France style is also very good...

for the fans they could organise small live shows ken block style before teach rally (some rallies like argentina have them) just for the fun of it, yes it would attract some subhuman species who are into drift shows and other stuff but it could also attract the uninitiated who might want to get a taste in the surrounding mountains where the real action is.

Also since the competiton is not that good nowadays and for some years now they should employ the old top 6 finishers get points system.

all these "vs" ideas are stupid, it would change the whole idea of the sport...

+10

[sollitt]

I agree with you NxOxT. They appear to have lost the plot entirely and the sport will suffer as a result.

Apparently they want to fix the issue of days 1 & 2 being the longest, and therefore the deciders, and day 3 just being a procession to the finish.
Here's a radical thought.
Why not put in the round organisers prescriptions the requirement that day 3 must be the longest and toughest. That ought to keep the contest going until the end.

Apparently they're also concerned about the lack of competition generating a level of disinterest among fans.
Here's another thought.
Why not make R5 the WRC formula (Malcolm Wilson has already mooted this) so that those competing at a high level domestically and/or regionally can afford to be involved as privateers which will bring more genuine competition and some local interest for many of the world's fans to follow.

It's not necessary to re-invent the wheel to create an exciting championship ... just get the basics right.

[Rallyper]

I agree with you NxOxT. They appear to have lost the plot entirely and the sport will suffer as a result.

Apparently they want to fix the issue of days 1 & 2 being the longest, and therefore the deciders, and day 3 just being a procession to the finish.
Here's a radical thought.
Why not put in the round organisers prescriptions the requirement that day 3 must be the longest and toughest. That ought to keep the contest going until the end.

Apparently they're also concerned about the lack of competition generating a level of disinterest among fans.
Here's another thought.
Why not make R5 the WRC formula (Malcolm Wilson has already mooted this) so that those competing at a high level domestically and/or regionally can afford to be involved as privateers which will bring more genuine competition and some local interest for many of the world's fans to follow.

It's not necessary to re-invent the wheel to create an exciting championship ... just get the basics right.

+10

[focus206]

I think they have a wrong mind set... they try to make rallying exciting the thing is rallying is exciting without changing anything...what they should focus on is making it more accessible to people and there are two way of doing that first is the TV and second the Internet. For example a few years back they had that virtual spectator thing but you had to pay for it... if they could provided it for free it would be a very nice addition, also live TV France style is also very good...

for the fans they could organise small live shows ken block style before teach rally (some rallies like argentina have them) just for the fun of it, yes it would attract some subhuman species who are into drift shows and other stuff but it could also attract the uninitiated who might want to get a taste in the surrounding mountains where the real action is.

Also since the competiton is not that good nowadays and for some years now they should employ the old top 6 finishers get points system.

all these "vs" ideas are stupid, it would change the whole idea of the sport...
I couldn't agree more, it's a stupid and pathetic idea. Also for the point system, no need to give points to the first 10, as situation is today.
if Capito and VW really want to put on shows like that, they can go to Global Rallycross Championship with Block and the others...

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Does anyone know if anyone will use a MINI next season?

Jarkko Nikara maybe, but he needs lot´s of money.

[AndyRAC]

Agree with NxOxT, Sollitt & Rallyper.....

Completely the wrong solution - another half baked idea.....

Rallycross already exists.....

[Doon]

I find the WRC to be exciting as it is. The problem is interesting more people in the sport. The majority of the public have no idea what rallying is. When I met my lady friend, she soon discovered my passion for the sport but had no idea what it was.....so I took her to Sweden. She loved it, so we booked a trip to Rally France (which wasn't great to spectate) and on the way home she said ' so which events are we doing next year'?

My point is, it's really not hard to get someone hooked on rallying, it's getting them to watch an event in the first place. The only way I can think of achieving this is by spreading events over large distances and letting the public know the event is actually running. This is not wanted by the teams due to costs, which is understandable. So to reduce cost, I think the R5 cars are the way forward. That would also entise more teams, private drivers, and with that sponsors. As an example in the UK the rally could have a day of spectator stages in the midlands/peak district/north west, then a day in Wales, then one in the Lake District. The logistics are more complicated, and maybe the teams just don't think it's worth the effort now?

I've seen Honda and Opel are looking into R5, so with Ford, Peugoet, Citroen, Hyundai and VW (if they both make one), that's a big championship with plenty of seats for drivers. There would then be more scope to have drivers from various countries, giving people 'local heros' to support which is another major factor of success of any motorsport in a particular country.

People may say R5 cars are less spectactular than WRC cars, but there were many who said the 1.6T cars would look so much slower than the 2.0T, and I for one prefer watching the new generation of WRC cars.

I don't know the solution, but i'm pretty sure it's NOT EVER going to be a final stage shootout. Spectating the event will be much the same, but the crews driving for hundreds of miles for 3 days would seem pointless.

[Rallyper]

Yes, it´s the competition that is the key. Competiton can very well be made with R5 cars, especially when or if new rules make more brands to participate.

Just make the R5´s sound a bit more and no one will miss the WRC cars for a moment. Good ideas, fellow rallyfans!!!

(Btw, rename the R5 cars to WRC cars and the change will be fullfilled and except for us neards no one will ever see the difference...)

[dimviii]

http://www.motorsport-aktuell.com/autom ... 78474.html (http://www.motorsport-aktuell.com/automobil/citroen-die-suche-nach-dem-neuen-loeb-7778474.html)

[jonkka]

I can see logic behind this proposed "1st vs 2nd to win" -scenario but it has one inherent problem: inflexibility. In cases where top 10 is separated by minutes in the final day, it would bring competition and excitement to otherwise boring procession to the finish. And we must admit that gaps in minutes are more the norm these days than other way around.

But, and this is the big but, in cases like we witnessed so well in last rally in Alsace, when multiple drivers are in hot competition for the same spot and are separated by seconds, it would be extremely unfair to apply such rule. Also, if drivers are competing for spots in different bracket like say, 2nd and 3rd are within seconds of each other, it again would be unfair and artificial to force them to compete for entirely different bracket.

Hence, though I see the valid point behind this proposal I think it's wrong solution to the problem and would be detrimental for the sport.

[jonkka]

Maybe we should go back to the old points system 10-8-6 etz,

Even if that would make it bit harder for Seb to walk away with the titles, it would be wrong move. With 25-18-15 -system we finally have a system that really rewards winner and encourages second placed driver to take risks for a win. The old 10-6 -system is even better but since that doesn't extend beyond top-6, current one is more favoured.

In addition, combined with Power Stage points scale (3-2-1), the overall classification points scale must remain high enough (eg. in tens) so that PS points do not play major part in championship fight.

[jonkka]

-> Rally2 don't count to final classification

If that would be the case, why would anyone rejoin rally anymore?


-> All cars of the make can score points to manufacter championship

So richer teams could field a hundred cars and "buy the title"?

[Mirek]

I can see logic behind this proposed "1st vs 2nd to win" -scenario but it has one inherent problem: inflexibility. In cases where top 10 is separated by minutes in the final day, it would bring competition and excitement to otherwise boring procession to the finish. And we must admit that gaps in minutes are more the norm these days than other way around.

But, and this is the big but, in cases like we witnessed so well in last rally in Alsace, when multiple drivers are in hot competition for the same spot and are separated by seconds, it would be extremely unfair to apply such rule. Also, if drivers are competing for spots in different bracket like say, 2nd and 3rd are within seconds of each other, it again would be unfair and artificial to force them to compete for entirely different bracket.

Hence, though I see the valid point behind this proposal I think it's wrong solution to the problem and would be detrimental for the sport.

I can see as a big mistake to even consider such unfair point. What is wrong with somebody leading by minutes if he is that good? On the other hand it's completely wrong to remove all his advantage he managed to gain through the whole rally. Not speaking what You mentioned if more than two are in direct fight. The gaps in the past were much bigger than now anyway.

Even if such rules is to be implemented I can't see how it shall help attract spectators. For the sake of excitement from one stage we would remove the excitement from all others? There are like twenty stages per rally, not one. Seriously WTF...

[Mirek]

If that would be the case, why would anyone rejoin rally anymore?

There are many championships in the world where Rally 2 is not counted into overall classification and it's still used by crews - at least it's more fair than WRC. For example ERC leg bonus points are more fair in my opinion than what is in WRC. It's completely unfair if anyone who retired finishes in front of someone who drives whole rally and it doesn't matter that one is in factory WRC and the other in private Toyota Yaris. Most ridiculous situations are on long stages where Rally 2 crews are "faster" than 2WD who drive the stage without problems - for example last year in Spain the long muddy stage was such case. It's like spitting in privateer's face.
People are worrying about low number of entrants in WRC events but what does WRC do to attract them? By rules like this WRC gives them a clear message that they are nobodies who don't worth fair approach.


So richer teams could field a hundred cars and "buy the title"?

This system was working in the best years of IRC and it was working perfect way. Those times there were plenty of importer and semi-manufacturer teams competing on regular basis. The outcome was clear - teams had to support their customers because they were able to help them. Teams were selling plenty of cars, there were better fights of more crews and spectators had much better show. This system also gave chance and experience to Neuville (Peugeot Belux) or Mikkelsen (Škoda UK). I don't see anything wrong about that.

[jonkka]

Note that I agree about silliness of the proposal, I merely pointed out that I understand why it has been made.


What is wrong with somebody leading by minutes if he is that good?

Besides the fact that continuing domination from single team and/or driver might be factor in killing the sport? Or that how many Sunday's even I have felt urge to do something else than follow the boring procession? Again note that I think the proposal is wrong medicine to this illness.

I believe that in some forms of horse or automotive track racing the fastest ones in qualifying or previous race winners are penalized with extra weight. So it's not so alien concept to try artificially even out the playing field. We spoke of this earlier in regard of tyre cutting and I know you dislike the concept but I think it has some merits.


The gaps in the past were much bigger than now anyway.

That is true but cars have never been as reliable as they are now. And in the old days, drivers could suddenly pull off a new level of performance at the middle of rally and be minutes quicker than the competition. Now they are lucky to beat opposition by tens of seconds over a longer stage. Times change...

[jonkka]

There are many championships in the world where Rally 2 is not counted into overall classification and it's still used by crews

I don't ask you to name examples because even if you did, those wouldn't tell me anything as I don't follow anything else besides WRC. So I take your word for it that there are such championships. I am inclined to believe that in those the competitors are not professionals but eager enthusiasts who compete because they love it. So it would stand to reason that they restart because they want to drive, not to be classified.

Whereas works WRC teams compete only because of commercial value of the sport. Drivers themselves may like the driving but they drive only because they are employed to do so. And why would team spend money on running drivers if there's nothing to be gained from it?

I may be a bit cynical about it but if I were team manager and my driver would ask me whether he'd restart in Rally2, my answer would be no if he couldn't score points, yes if he could. Having said all that, it can be pointed out that there's commercial value in flying the colors on the stages even if competitor couldn't score points. Hence, it's not quite so straightforward an issue.


It's completely unfair if anyone who retired finishes in front of someone who drives whole rally

I do not agree. To categorically say that is the equivalent of saying that someone who goes off for half an hour and still is faster at the end than someone who stayed on the road. The only unfair part is in the time penalty given for missing stages and, like you pointed out, if by not driving the stage you can be higher in overall standings than by driving, that's unfair.


This system was working in the best years of IRC and it was working perfect way.

But what were the scoring rules? All of the marques cars inside top-10 would score? Or just best or two best?

If the rule would be unrestricted scoring for manufacturers' championship, as I understood from original posters text, in game theoretical world it would lead to flooding entry list with same team's entries. Pre-nominated and quantitatively restricted manufacturer entries as they are now, provides top driver material (at least in theory) to all teams and restricts one team from elbowing others out with cash.

[Mirek]

I don't ask you to name examples because even if you did, those wouldn't tell me anything as I don't follow anything else besides WRC. So I take your word for it that there are such championships. I am inclined to believe that in those the competitors are not professionals but eager enthusiasts who compete because they love it. So it would stand to reason that they restart because they want to drive, not to be classified.

Whereas works WRC teams compete only because of commercial value of the sport. Drivers themselves may like the driving but they drive only because they are employed to do so. And why would team spend money on running drivers if there's nothing to be gained from it?

I may be a bit cynical about it but if I were team manager and my driver would ask me whether he'd restart in Rally2, my answer would be no if he couldn't score points, yes if he could. Having said all that, it can be pointed out that there's commercial value in flying the colors on the stages even if competitor couldn't score points. Hence, it's not quite so straightforward an issue.

For example in the ERC there is a system which gives the drivers (crews, teams) some points for separate leg classification plus bigger points for overall finish. Example: driver wins both two legs legs (in ERC there are usually only two but it can be three) and also overall classification - he takes 25+9+9=43 points (very maximum possible). Driver who retires first day and wins second one takes 0+0+9=9 points. He is not in final classification but he takes points.

In my opinion there is a high value from "flying the flag" for factory teams IF there is a proper media coverage. For example if You have all stages live Your car is shown all the time even if it is out of overall classification. It wins stages and takes attention. I know from Škoda that they valued coverage of Monte Carlo for example extremely high because of time the brand was shown on TV (virtually several hours for Škoda itself from just one rally). They do more silly things for the very same reason than to restart crashed cars - for example they accompany cyclists in Tour de France or put cars on ice hockey stadiums all for the very same reason - it's time on TV. Usually it's not that expensive to do some extra millage when you already have everything there. Besides that you collect data and experience.

It's of course a question of balancing but there are other ways than Rally 2 possible.


I do not agree. To categorically say that is the equivalent of saying that someone who goes off for half an hour and still is faster at the end than someone who stayed on the road. The only unfair part is in the time penalty given for missing stages and, like you pointed out, if by not driving the stage you can be higher in overall standings than by driving, that's unfair.

Good point but usually You are excluded for not doing a time check in the limit in case of such extreme situations. But ok, at least the penalty shall be much bigger (or proportional to the stage length).


But what were the scoring rules? All of the marques cars inside top-10 would score? Or just best or two best?

If the rule would be unrestricted scoring for manufacturers' championship, as I understood from original posters text, in game theoretical world it would lead to flooding entry list with same team's entries. Pre-nominated and quantitatively restricted manufacturer entries as they are now, provides top driver material (at least in theory) to all teams and restricts one team from elbowing others out with cash.

In the IRC it was done that two best cars of the brand took points and it didn't matter which team they belonged to. This year ERC used team competition but it failed for lack of interested teams so it will most likely return to the IRC rules. In my opinion those are better even though I understand that in WRC the situation is different thanks to number of rich teams. Still I do believe such rules would encourage VW, Citroën or Hyundai to support privateers on similar way only M-Sport does.

[jonkka]

For example in the ERC there is a system which gives the drivers (crews, teams) some points for separate leg classification plus bigger points for overall finish.

According to what I deduced from your explanation, each leg is separate mini-rally? In the other words, driver who retires today do not feature on today's leg classification but can compete tomorrow? Will rally start from zero time tomorrow or will today's leg classification form basis for tomorrow's leg (probably no because that way today's retirees wouldn't be able to win leg tomorrow)? Or are both days combined into one final classification which features only drivers that have time on both classifications?


In my opinion there is a high value from "flying the flag" for factory teams IF there is a proper media coverage.

This is somewhat controversial issue. If I would like to play ball I would have to agree because manufacturers are involved in commercial interest's sake only. Then again, how many of you have ever bought a car just because marque is involved in rallying? I can reveal that I, despite my more or less obvious enthusiasm, own Volvo which hasn't been active in rallying since 1970's. Whereas my wife, who couldn't care less about the sport has had both Ford Fiesta and now recently VW Polo. I'd claim that commercial benefit from WRC is very incidental if not non-existent. Finnish VW dealers event don't have any promo material related to VW WRC campaing, which is pretty silly in rally-mad country as we are.

Now, let me turn the rant off... Sorry...


cars on ice hockey stadiums all for the very same reason - it's time on TV. Usually it's not that expensive to do some extra millage when you already have everything there. Besides that you collect data and experience.

Allow me to continue my rant a bit longer... Yes, it's time on tv. I have often wondered about those Skoda's on ice rink. I admit I am not very familiar with hockey but I believe Czech is one of the great hockey countries so this connection between Skoda and hockey does not amaze me. But the reason why is more often than not - and I am now speaking of advertising in general - that company has a advertising budget and it has to be used on something. Sometimes on interesting and innovative things, sometimes less so.

I would like to set Red Bull as an example of a company that does have content, heart and interesting ideas in their promoting strategy. Whereas many traditional companies, which include but are not limited to cars or soap, run commercials which are in no way interesting or benefit brand image (or even awareness, which is the traditional reason of doing motorsport). Maybe I am the only one but have you ever seen a advertisement which have made you ask "why did they do this sh*t"?

Again I must say I am sorry as this is not only rant but it's also very much out of the topic of this thread. This is what you get from keeping me so long in a closet. :D

To make amends I make one final point of your last sentence. Yes, running the retired cars for the sake of experience (both for the team and the driver) is a valid reason to do so. And that also is one reason why Rally2 is a good concept. It allows younger drivers to get experience from more stages.


Good point but usually You are excluded for not doing a time check in the limit in case of such extreme situations.

Is there still concept of exceeding maximum lateness? I've recorded crews in overall classification with penalties excess of half an hour - which in the old days would have meant exceeding the maximum allowed time.


In the IRC it was done that two best cars of the brand took points and it didn't matter which team they belonged to. -snip- Still I do believe such rules would encourage VW, Citroën or Hyundai to support privateers on similar way only M-Sport does.

Ok, so it's restricted to two cars. Then it makes sense and though is different from WRC, isn't wildly so. 1970's scoring rules were like this and in addition, they were automatic. Manufacturer did not need to do anything for the driver that scored for them which is somewhat silly in my opinion.

I think there is a point there. If manufacturer could benefit from any two best cars of their make, they might be inclined not only support privateers more but also to invest in car development in various groups and classes.

Citroen has made a point of supporting or providing cars only selected drivers. M-Sport is a business who'll sell or rent their Fords to anybody with money. VW is unknown territory as of yet but likely because they're new team they've concentrated on getting their own effort in order before selling cars to privateers. We'll see.

[Mirek]

According to what I deduced from your explanation, each leg is separate mini-rally? In the other words, driver who retires today do not feature on today's leg classification but can compete tomorrow? Will rally start from zero time tomorrow or will today's leg classification form basis for tomorrow's leg (probably no because that way today's retirees wouldn't be able to win leg tomorrow)? Or are both days combined into one final classification which features only drivers that have time on both classifications?

Yes, it's a kind of mini-rally. You have general results which are counted from SS1 to last SS and where only those who finish all stages are in. Than you have a separate classification of each leg where all who finished all stages of the leg alone are classified. Those get the bonus points.


This is somewhat controversial issue. If I would like to play ball I would have to agree because manufacturers are involved in commercial interest's sake only. Then again, how many of you have ever bought a car just because marque is involved in rallying? I can reveal that I, despite my more or less obvious enthusiasm, own Volvo which hasn't been active in rallying since 1970's. Whereas my wife, who couldn't care less about the sport has had both Ford Fiesta and now recently VW Polo. I'd claim that commercial benefit from WRC is very incidental if not non-existent. Finnish VW dealers event don't have any promo material related to VW WRC campaing, which is pretty silly in rally-mad country as we are.

Allow me to continue my rant a bit longer... Yes, it's time on tv. I have often wondered about those Skoda's on ice rink. I admit I am not very familiar with hockey but I believe Czech is one of the great hockey countries so this connection between Skoda and hockey does not amaze me. But the reason why is more often than not - and I am now speaking of advertising in general - that company has a advertising budget and it has to be used on something. Sometimes on interesting and innovative things, sometimes less so.

I would like to set Red Bull as an example of a company that does have content, heart and interesting ideas in their promoting strategy. Whereas many traditional companies, which include but are not limited to cars or soap, run commercials which are in no way interesting or benefit brand image (or even awareness, which is the traditional reason of doing motorsport). Maybe I am the only one but have you ever seen a advertisement which have made you ask "why did they do this sh*t"?

I don't pretend to be a marketing specialist but I somehow believe that the successful know what they are doing. I spoke about Škoda which is one of the few still growing European car makers and which built quite large part of its marketing on rallying but also on completely car-irrelevant activities like the Tour de France. In my understanding winning something means quite little for the market but to be on display everywhere all the time is what counts more - hence the Tour de France, Ice hockey or rallying. In 2009 they said the time they were on Eurosport during Monte Carlo worth more than the team budget for whole season.


Is there still concept of exceeding maximum lateness? I've recorded crews in overall classification with penalties excess of half an hour - which in the old days would have meant exceeding the maximum allowed time.

Yes, it is. It was only changed from 15 to 30 minutes I think.


Ok, so it's restricted to two cars. Then it makes sense and though is different from WRC, isn't wildly so. 1970's scoring rules were like this and in addition, they were automatic. Manufacturer did not need to do anything for the driver that scored for them which is somewhat silly in my opinion.

In the IRC it was semi-automatic :) For drivers it was automatic if the manufacturer registered itself. That means since the point a car maker registered itself for the championship any car of its brand could score points.


I think there is a point there. If manufacturer could benefit from any two best cars of their make, they might be inclined not only support privateers more but also to invest in car development in various groups and classes.

Citroen has made a point of supporting or providing cars only selected drivers. M-Sport is a business who'll sell or rent their Fords to anybody with money. VW is unknown territory as of yet but likely because they're new team they've concentrated on getting their own effort in order before selling cars to privateers. We'll see.

In my opinion VW and Huyndai have no intention to support privateers because they don't need to do so. As manager of Hyundai Alain Penasse said they didn't need even sponsors. They had budget big enough from their car maker. On the other hand as the success of S2000 cars showed the teams can get a lot of money back if they don't stand on the elitism of WRC (but that's connected also to the rule restricting use of WRC cars in WRC only). Peugeot, Škoda, M-Sport or Abarth each sold over 50 S2000 cars to customers (I believe Peugeot close to 100). Together with services it's a big money which can help the budget of manufacturer which than don't need to cry a river about how expensive the championship is when in the same time it wants to keep his car only for himself (Citroën).

Thanks for discussion but I need to work now :) I can continue in the evening if You like.

[jonkka]

Thanks for discussion but I need to work now :) I can continue in the evening if You like.

Anytime old boy. And you don't need to use capital Y with me. :D

[dimviii]

http://blogs.as.com/sexta-a-fondo/2013/ ... mento.html (http://blogs.as.com/sexta-a-fondo/2013/10/sordo-sin-coche-para-2014de-momento.html)

[skarderud]

Silly enough, kubica and paddon too ford, hirvonen too hyundai? But where do neuville goes?

[skarderud]

Atleast, not exactly a bombshell, but Solberg is doing RX next year too: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110677

[noel157]

Atleast, not exactly a bombshell, but Solberg is doing RX next year too: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110677


Well that should stop the Petter posts.,.. :)

Only jesting Mohit. :)

[mohit]

skarderud wrote:Atleast, not exactly a bombshell, but Solberg is doing RX next year too: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110677




Well that should stop the Petter posts.,.. :)

Only jesting Mohit. :)



CHEERS MATE :colour:

[Bartolbia84]

BREAKING NEWS: New date for Rally d'Italia Sardegna, the race will take place from 04-08 June.

[Mintexmemory]

BREAKING NEWS: New date for Rally d'Italia Sardegna, the race will take place from 04-08 June.

Yipee that is the week after the UK school hols so flights will be less expensive!
But 5 days including Sunday next year? Is this likely to shrink when the itinerary is published?

[bluuford]

Hirvonen not likely to continue in Citroen:
http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutise ... euvottelut (http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/2013/10/1820690/hirvonen-lahdossa-citroenilta---yksi-mies-jaadyttanyt-neuvottelut)

Look at the poll results at the bottom of the page: 40.5% are thinking that he is not doing WRC in 2013. Good.

[RS]

There are 8 main seats available in WRC next year which is quite a treat by recent standards, here are the drivers I would like to see in them for an interesting and exciting championship.

Ogier, Latvala, Neuville, Sordo, Hanninen, Meeke, Bouffier, Kubica.

I didn't count Mikkelsen as I guess he will continue as VWs third driver.

Discuss :)

[Nornbugger]

There are 8 main seats available in WRC next year which is quite a treat by recent standards, here are the drivers I would like to see in them for an interesting and exciting championship.

Ogier, Latvala, Neuville, Sordo, Hanninen, Meeke, Bouffier, Kubica.

I didn't count Mikkelsen as I guess he will continue as VWs third driver.

Discuss :)


Remove Ogier from you list if you want an open and exciting championship, IMHO he is on an other level compared to any of the other drivers out there at the moment

[RS]

Remove Ogier from you list if you want an open and exciting championship, IMHO he is on an other level compared to any of the other drivers out there at the moment

That may be so, but people used to say the same about Loeb, and Schumacher in F1. I don't think you make a championship better by removing it's best driver...

Of the current crop maybe only Neuville can challenge Ogier in the future.

[OnlyRally]

That may be so, but people used to say the same about Loeb, and Schumacher in F1. I don't think you make a championship better by removing it's best driver...

Of the current crop maybe only Neuville can challenge Ogier in the future.

Of the current crop Latvala is already challenging Ogier!

[RS]

That may be so, but people used to say the same about Loeb, and Schumacher in F1. I don't think you make a championship better by removing it's best driver...

Of the current crop maybe only Neuville can challenge Ogier in the future.

Of the current crop Latvala is already challenging Ogier!

Is he?

He got better as the year went on but I don't think he can do it over a full championship year.

[OnlyRally]

That may be so, but people used to say the same about Loeb, and Schumacher in F1. I don't think you make a championship better by removing it's best driver...

Of the current crop maybe only Neuville can challenge Ogier in the future.

Of the current crop Latvala is already challenging Ogier!

Is he?

He got better as the year went on but I don't think he can do it over a full championship year.

Yes.

I think he can :)

[Rallyper]

He might be able, but will not be allowed to take title from Mr Ogier.

[Nornbugger]

He might be able, but will not be allowed to take title from Mr Ogier.

you lose credibility when you post silly things like this

[danon]

Yet, from bad it could even turn to worse for Latvala.

What if Ogier had/has the ambition to beat the Master's records
and those were/are the conditions of the contract swapping Citroen with VW.

Now is the time for Latvala to go to Citroen.

Ogier could win many titles throughout his career but he'll always miss the most important one - the people's champion title.

One day Ogier will get back to Citroen / Peugeot to try to sort that one out.

[danon]

Of the current crop maybe only Neuville can challenge Ogier in the future.

wrong guess - try again

[Mintexmemory]

Yet, from bad it could even turn to worse for Latvala.

What if Ogier had/has the ambition to beat the Master's records
and those were/are the conditions of the contract swapping Citroen with VW.

Now is the time for Latvala to go to Citroen.

Ogier could win many titles throughout his career but he'll always miss the most important one - the people's champion title.

One day Ogier will get back to Citroen / Peugeot to try to sort that one out.

M.Danon, I take it you are French - Ogier will never be loved because as a nation you don't like succession (the king is dead, the next one will be useless)- that's why Juliet Greco is still working! Citroen is now a busted flush, the only place that Latvala can get a car to challenge Ogier is exactly where he is right now. Ogier is also French so you should know he will never go back to Citroen. His whole career will be to pee on them as much as possible, n'est ce pas

[danon]

The challenge is to be the best of the rest.

No point of getting "the second best and most reliable challenger title"
as supporting driver at the end of his career like Mikko did.

Now is the right time for Latvala to do exactly what Ogier did.

If Latvala has the balls to take the challenge by going to Citroen he'll be the ?1 and the biggest challenger for the title/s, too.

Fortune favours the brave!

[Mintexmemory]

The challenge is to be the best of the rest.

No point of getting "the second best and most reliable challenger title"
as supporting driver at the end of his career like Mikko did.

Now is the right time for Latvala to do exactly what Ogier did.

If Latvala has the balls to take the challenge by going to Citroen he'll be the ?1 and the biggest challenger for the title/s, too.

Fortune favours the brave!

Pleins des couilles - Look where it got Mikko stuck in a permanently grieving team mourning the loss of Le Roi. Unloved and Finnish!

[danon]

Balls are nothing without bat!!! © -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD8YPY8RBQc

( :D Touche MM- Mod)

[Rallyper]

He might be able, but will not be allowed to take title from Mr Ogier.

you lose credibility when you post silly things like this

Please explain. It´s obvious isn´t it? How long have you followed WRC? Not more than a year, I reccon?

[Mirek]

No, it's not obvious. It was Latvala's own results what made him virtual No.2 driver.

[Rallyper]

No, it's not obvious. It was Latvala's own results what made him virtual No.2 driver.

It´s obvious in the situation he is now. We don´t know his current speed, not excactly, and if he was able he will not be allowed to show it in the end of the forecoming rallies as long as he is in VW together with Seb O.

At least me doesn´t referre to what has been. We all know JML is one of few that could matcg Seb O in speed in let´s say 2-3 times out of 5.

[N.O.T]

Latvala first has to prove he has the consistency and then to go for No1 place in any team...

[Mirek]

At least me doesn´t referre to what has been. We all know JML is one of few that could matcg Seb O in speed in let´s say 2-3 times out of 5.

You answered Yourself. If he is able of that he is not able to fight with him for the championship.

[dimviii]

The challenge is to be the best of the rest.

No point of getting "the second best and most reliable challenger title"
as supporting driver at the end of his career like Mikko did.

Now is the right time for Latvala to do exactly what Ogier did.

If Latvala has the balls to take the challenge by going to Citroen he'll be the ?1 and the biggest challenger for the title/s, too.

Fortune favours the brave!

i have to agree.At same team as Ogier wil not evolute him.

[Barreis]

Latvala first has to prove he has the consistency and then to go for No1 place in any team...
He doesn't have a nerve for that. It's well known how he reacts under pressure of no1 in team...

[Rallyper]

I´m not saying JML alone can make difference. However to me he has made some progress last rallies. In speed we already know.
In the question if he will be able to match Seb, JML staying at VW nothing will happen. We all know who´s allowed to be WDC in that team.

JML and TN together with a "newborn" Mads or Novikov might give Seb the challenge we all longing for in 2014.

[Nornbugger]

Sorry for your blindness regarding JML Rallyper, he is a wonderful addition to the championship, he will however never be able to compete with Ogier over a full season, also I think its fair to say the Fiesta has been shown by TN to be capable of than JML got from it.
Can you give me 1 credible reason why VW would favour Ogier over JML? VW want to win, I'm 100% sure till you can persuade me otherwise that they dont give a monkeys which driver lifts the crown as long as it is 1 of theirs

Also, I started followed WRC/BRC in the late 70s and have been since #itwasbetterbackintheday........

[dimviii]

http://www.lavenir.net/sports/cnt/dmf20131029_00382078

[RS]

. In speed we already know.

That he is slower than Ogier?



Mads or Novikov might give Seb the challenge we all longing for in 2014.

You are dreaming.

[miniwintz]

Novikov is a loose cannon, more often disappointing than not, but we can't rule him out of the championship yet. He is young and has shown he has some kind of talent. "His year" has yet to come imo, but it's maybe not 2014.

One thing is for sure, it will be hard for everyone to try and beat Ogier in the next few years.

[MJW]

Looking more and more like Mikko at MSport, Thierry at Hyundai and Kris Meeke at Citroen.

[A FONDO]

yes I just read Malcolm wants Hirvo :confused: only explanation (imo) for this is if Ostberg or Novikov declared they will not drive for Ford

[N.O.T]

yes I just read Malcolm wants Hirvo :confused: only explanation (imo) for this is if Ostberg or Novikov declared they will not drive for Ford

Hirvonen is way better than both of them.

[Rallyper]

Can you give me 1 credible reason why VW would favour Ogier over JML? VW want to win, I'm 100% sure till you can persuade me otherwise that they dont give a monkeys which driver lifts the crown as long as it is 1 of theirs

.

If Ogier wasn´t allowed to win he´d gone from VW to a french brand.

[makinen_fan]

If Ogier wasn´t allowed to win he´d gone from VW to a french brand.

Why on earth VW wouldn't allow him to win since he is miles ahead of JML in almost all rallies?? What you are saying doesn't make sense.

[Miika]

According to YLE (BBC of Finland) Neuville´s Hyundai deal will be announced this Friday, along with the news that the second car will be shared between Hänninen-Atkinson-Bouffier.

http://yle.fi/urheilu/mm-ralli_suomalai ... in/6909384 (http://yle.fi/urheilu/mm-ralli_suomalaiskuski_ensi_kaudella_hyundain_rattii n/6909384)

[makinen_fan]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110993

[Rallyper]

If Ogier wasn´t allowed to win he´d gone from VW to a french brand.

Why on earth VW wouldn't allow him to win since he is miles ahead of JML in almost all rallies?? What you are saying doesn't make sense.

Let´s take this from the beginning:

Some of you guys talked about JML finding speed and reasons why he didn´t hold 1 st place last day in Spain. MAny quotes later I still hold on to the fact that no matter what IF JML is reaching faster pace, which we´ve seen lately, and that results he´s going to challenge Ogier of the first place in rallies he´s not going to be allowed to win, because of Ogier´s big ego. Remember him in Citroen beside Loeb.
I´m not discussing whether JML will become as fast as he can challenge for victories or not, I just commented one quote about him as possible winning rallies next year. And as long as 2nd driver at VW he´ll not be allowed.

[EightGear]

If Ogier wasn´t allowed to win he´d gone from VW to a french brand.

Why on earth VW wouldn't allow him to win since he is miles ahead of JML in almost all rallies?? What you are saying doesn't make sense.

Let´s take this from the beginning:

Some of you guys talked about JML finding speed and reasons why he didn´t hold 1 st place last day in Spain. MAny quotes later I still hold on to the fact that no matter what IF JML is reaching faster pace, which we´ve seen lately, and that results he´s going to challenge Ogier of the first place in rallies he´s not going to be allowed to win, because of Ogier´s big ego. Remember him in Citroen beside Loeb.
I´m not discussing whether JML will become as fast as he can challenge for victories or not, I just commented one quote about him as possible winning rallies next year. And as long as 2nd driver at VW he´ll not be allowed.

Oh, you've seen his contract?

[Rallyper]

Tbh I would like this to happen. JML enough fast next year and we´ll see if he win any rallies...

[OnlyRally]

Some of you guys talked about JML finding speed and reasons why he didn´t hold 1 st place last day in Spain.

broken front differential and leaking engine on fire isn't a reason?
Capito made it clear before this rally that he wants to see a fight.

[N.O.T]

I think that when a team has 2 capable drivers it does not isuue No1 and No2 numbers from the start of the season... but of course they will impose that when a drivers has more points after a few rallies because it would be stupid not to.

As for spain my belief is that the orders to latvala were to finish to secure the title, not to let ogier win.

[Nornbugger]

Can you give me 1 credible reason why VW would favour Ogier over JML? VW want to win, I'm 100% sure till you can persuade me otherwise that they dont give a monkeys which driver lifts the crown as long as it is 1 of theirs

.

If Ogier wasn´t allowed to win he´d gone from VW to a french brand.


I didnt agree with JMLs decision to go the VW, for him or for VW, but he didnt ask me :-(
I am sure VW would be happy for him to be 2nd in the championship and will continue to do all they can to help him, next season I'm sure they'll once again let him battle with Ogier till Ogier once again will dominate him, thats just how it'll be, JML is very good but he doesnt have the Sebs ability to do the job day in day out on any event

[kober]

So, what about the following line-up?

VW:
- Ogier (2014 champion)
- Latvala
- Mikkelsen (second team)
Citroen:
- Sordo
- Meeke
- Al-Qassimi (second team, five/six rallies)
M-Sport:
- Hirvonen
- Kubica
- Novikov (second team)
- Al-Attiyah/Paddon (second team, shared car)
Hyundai:
- Neuville
- Hanninen/Atkinson/Bouffier (shared car)

Ostberg? He'll join Solberg in WRXC :)

[danon]

broken front differential and leaking engine on fire isn't a reason?
Capito made it clear before this rally that he wants to see a fight.

Ever heard of differential maps...

Diffs open and close the way you open and close your internet browser.

Have you ever had a frozen browser when you try open it...? - Who doesn't!

Is it possible a diff to be frozen like your browser did by re-programming the diff maps...? - Your answer

Who is to blame...

Another convenient coincidence is the malfunction of the front diff - not the rear one!

One other convenient coincidence is the oil leakage - safe and easy done by pros.

Why didn't 'create' a cooling leakage...

They play, we follow!!!

[Nornbugger]

broken front differential and leaking engine on fire isn't a reason?
Capito made it clear before this rally that he wants to see a fight.

Ever heard of differential maps...

Diffs open and close the way you open and close your internet browser.

Have you ever had a frozen browser when you try open it...? - Who doesn't!

Is it possible a diff to be frozen like your browser did by re-programming the diff maps...? - Your answer

Who is to blame...

Another convenient coincidence is the malfunction of the front diff - not the rear one!

One other convenient coincidence is the oil leakage - safe and easy done by pros.

Why didn't 'create' a cooling leakage...

They play, we follow!!!


proper ROFL post, I just had to quote it so anyone with you on their ignore list could enjoy it too, thanks, you gave me a good laugh to end a dull day
:smokin:

[danon]

Still rolling... :D

[RAS007]

yes I just read Malcolm wants Hirvo :confused: only explanation (imo) for this is if Ostberg or Novikov declared they will not drive for Ford

The other explanation is that Malcolm is not interested in winning. Mikko is a proven number 2 driver, with a track record to match.

[Mirek]

Ever heard of differential maps...

Diffs open and close the way you open and close your internet browser.

Have you ever had a frozen browser when you try open it...? - Who doesn't!

Is it possible a diff to be frozen like your browser did by re-programming the diff maps...? - Your answer

Who is to blame...

Another convenient coincidence is the malfunction of the front diff - not the rear one!

One other convenient coincidence is the oil leakage - safe and easy done by pros.

Why didn't 'create' a cooling leakage...

They play, we follow!!!


proper ROFL post, I just had to quote it so anyone with you on their ignore list could enjoy it too, thanks, you gave me a good laugh to end a dull day
:smokin:

:D :D :D That's pure gold!

[RS]

yes I just read Malcolm wants Hirvo :confused: only explanation (imo) for this is if Ostberg or Novikov declared they will not drive for Ford

Hirvonen is way better than both of them.

I agree with NOT. I'm not the biggest Hirvonen fan but he would be a level above those two.

[AndyRAC]

Mikko seems to have lost his mojo – can Malcolm help him find it? They do seem to have a good relationship – something I doubt he had at Citroen, were everything has been focussed on Mr Loeb.

[N.O.T]

were everything has been focussed on Mr Loeb.

especially this year ... LOL

[Rallyper]

So, what about the following line-up?

VW:
- Ogier (2014 champion)
- Latvala
- Mikkelsen (second team)
Citroen:
- Sordo
- Meeke
- Al-Qassimi (second team, five/six rallies)
M-Sport:
- Hirvonen
- Kubica
- Novikov (second team)
- Al-Attiyah/Paddon (second team, shared car)
Hyundai:
- Neuville
- Hanninen/Atkinson/Bouffier (shared car)

Ostberg? He'll join Solberg in WRXC :)

Nop, I would swap Meeke for Ostberg and Kubica at Citroen. My Believe was Neuville to Citroen earlier as well, but if not we´ll see Ostberg there.

[OnlyRally]

broken front differential and leaking engine on fire isn't a reason?
Capito made it clear before this rally that he wants to see a fight.

Ever heard of differential maps...

Diffs open and close the way you open and close your internet browser.

Have you ever had a frozen browser when you try open it...? - Who doesn't!

Is it possible a diff to be frozen like your browser did by re-programming the diff maps...? - Your answer

Who is to blame...

Another convenient coincidence is the malfunction of the front diff - not the rear one!

One other convenient coincidence is the oil leakage - safe and easy done by pros.

Why didn't 'create' a cooling leakage...

They play, we follow!!!

No. 1 conspiracy theory of the year?

Differentials in WRC cars from 2011 season: the new regulation allows only front and rear axle differential (eliminating the center differential to reduce cost), and they must be mechanical, without electronic control or hydraulic or viscous systems.
Can u please explain the "frozen browser" theory again?

[kober]

Can u please explain the "frozen browser" theory again?
This link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony) should help.

[miniwintz]

Still no official announcement from Neuville? He was supposed to tell before the end of October...

[Eli]

watching autosport,doesn't say anything about it,truely weird...

[COD]

were everything has been focussed on Mr Loeb.

especially this year ... LOL

Exactly LOL. This was supposed to be the year Mikko will a champion. Well, he proved how well he can do it :D

[Roy]

Still no official announcement from Neuville? He was supposed to tell before the end of October...

Maybe he told M-sport, Hyundai (probably both) what he does. These teams will be choose a good PR moment to present their new driver. Before/during Rally GB will be a good moment.

I have still a couple of questions about this movie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzUwNwDllKY
It is in my head. Why should M-sport this published 31-10, when it was filmed couple of weeks?
Is it a tribute for a great driver who leave the team or is it an corner of the veil for 2014? Does Neuville choose for M-Sport?
Maybe it has nothing to do with that, but I don't believe that.

What was the message of these video? What do you think?

[Brynmor Pierce]

Must say the intrigue is one reason i'm looking forward to the rally forum we've organized on the 13th....for anyone that wasn't aware by permission of Citroen and Ford we have Mikko and Mads on stage (plus Elfyn Evans) :)

[Plan9]

Is anyone using a MINI next year?

[Mintexmemory]

Is anyone using a MINI next year?

Only a complete idiot with more money than sense - after the MI performance at the start of this season
anyone wanting to enter a WRC event would be better advised to hire a R5.
I'm wondering when someone will buy the Prodrive cars for the BTRDA series

[mousti]

Tomorrow or maybe even today confirmation of Neuville at Hyundai.

[Sulland]

Very interessting, lets hope he knows more than us on speed of that car....

But it opens up the market !

[Andre Oliveira]

So mixing my wishes and rumours and confirmations:

Volkswagen Motorsport
1. Sebastien Ogier
2. Jari-Mati Latvala

Qatar M-Sport WRT
1. Dani Sordo
2. Chris Atkinson
3. Robert Kubica

Citroën Abu Dhabi WRT
1. Mikko Hirvonen
2. Mads Ostberg
3. Kalid Al-Qassimi

Qatar WRT
1. Nasser Al-Attyiah
2. Elfyn Evans
3. Hayden Paddon

Hyundai Motorsport
1. Thierry Neuville
2. Juho Hänninen
3. Bryan Bouffier

Volkswagen Motorsport II
1. Andreas Mikkelsen
2. Sepp Wiegand

M-Sport Costumers
- Martin Prokop
- Bernardo Sousa
- Abdulaziz Al-Kuwari
- Ken Block
- Leonid "Crazy Leo" Urlichich

[A FONDO]

I think it will be Kubica, Hirvonen and Novikov at Ford, also Evans and Paddon not full seasons. Citroen will take Sordo, Ostberg. Atkinson will drive a little for Hyundai.
Though what it should be (and what I wish to be) is pretty different.

[DoubleD]

Can't see Citroen going for that line up, they might as well not turn up to the tarmac events if they did...

[faateris]

to Andre Oliveira:

2-nd team's for Ford and VW? Where did You get that? Interesting teams.....wishes.
This year's Ford and Citroen team driver's where not that good as they must be(exp. Loeb and Neuville). Team chef's must think hard, with which driver talk to.... In 2014' WRC need fresh blood.
I hope that Hyundai in 2014' will be better than in the past..... Neuvill's decision :mad:

[Andre Oliveira]

VW Motorsport II and Qatar WRT already exists.

[Plan9]

Any word on Juho Hanninen's position next year? If he does not get a i20 is there any money for him to continue to rent a Fiesta?

Also, is DMACK going to continue its involvement?

[focus206]

So mixing my wishes and rumours and confirmations:

Volkswagen Motorsport
1. Sebastien Ogier
2. Jari-Mati Latvala

Qatar M-Sport WRT
1. Dani Sordo
2. Chris Atkinson
3. Robert Kubica

Citroën Abu Dhabi WRT
1. Mikko Hirvonen
2. Mads Ostberg
3. Kalid Al-Qassimi

Qatar WRT
1. Nasser Al-Attyiah
2. Elfyn Evans
3. Hayden Paddon

Hyundai Motorsport
1. Thierry Neuville
2. Juho Hänninen
3. Bryan Bouffier

Volkswagen Motorsport II
1. Andreas Mikkelsen
2. Sepp Wiegand

M-Sport Costumers
- Martin Prokop
- Bernardo Sousa
- Abdulaziz Al-Kuwari
- Ken Block
- Leonid "Crazy Leo" Urlichich
If I'm not mistaking, Matton said that the drivers in consideration for a Citroen's seat are Sordo, Meeke, Ostberg and Kubica, so no Hirvonen...

[rage82]

Think Matton said he's is choosing from 5 drivers, mentioning Mikko.
Here's one of the articles about his decision: http://www.crash.net/world+rally/news/1 ... _2014.html (http://www.crash.net/world+rally/news/197454/1/citroen_has_five_possible_drivers_on_list_for_2014 .html)

[mohit]

2014 surely will be a sill season.

BUT FIA needs to re-think about future of WRC as, with only 2 manufacturers meaning 4 official cars future of WRC is dull so FIA should re-consider rules for the future.

Now drivers are paying to drive before they were paid, M-Sport is basically responsible for this trend.

Privateers are not allowed to win or they don't get access to same equipment all this is not correct.

I request all to think about future of this sport.

Thanks,

[Bartolbia84]

Rally ItaliaSardegna ?@Rally_d_Italia 9m
@Rally_d_Italia 2014,race valid for the FIA @OfficialWRC , will be also valid for the @CIRally and the @TrRallyTerra

[bassist]

Just a matter of interest, of the current crop of top drivers in the WRC, who are Paid to drive, and who Pay to drive?

[Sulland]

Is it confirmed that Hirvonen will drive for MSport in 14?

[EightGear]

Is it confirmed that Hirvonen will drive for MSport in 14?

Not yet but I guess it won't take long.

[noel157]

Is it confirmed that Hirvonen will drive for MSport in 14?

May as well be, he didn't look too unhappy after his off and making jokes.

[danon]

WRC is for boys Group B was for Men (HD1080p) 2012 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVAT3wE1uX8

[N.O.T]

WRC is for boys Group B was for Men (HD1080p) 2012 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVAT3wE1uX8

No.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

If I'm not mistaking, Matton said that the drivers in consideration for a Citroen's seat are Sordo, Meeke, Ostberg and Kubica, so no Hirvonen...
And the team have confirmed they will only enter two cars full-time next year, with a third car for al-Qassimi (or whoever he chooses to drive it) at selected events, because they are trying to juggle their WRC programme with the C-Elysee entries in the WTCC, so the customer car program has been closed down. For now, at least

[Andre Oliveira]

So next season:

Volkswagen #1 and #2
Citröen #3 and 4#
Ford #5 and #6
Hyundai #7 and 8#

?

[Rallyper]

So next season:

Volkswagen #1 and #2
Citröen #3 and 4#
Ford #5 and #6
Hyundai #7 and 8#

?

#1 for ever belonging to Mr Loeb.

[er88]

So next season:

Volkswagen #1 and #2
Citröen #3 and 4#
Ford #5 and #6
Hyundai #7 and 8#

?

#1 for ever belonging to Mr Loeb.

Why say that?? Guess your just trying to lure in the loeb haters :laugh: ? But Ogier now deserves being #1 because he is world champion - simple as that. Loeb will always be remembered as the most successful driver ever whether he was or wasnt loved by people but hes retired now...

[Rallyper]

Well, that maybe is an misunderstanding from my side. Maybe he´s #1 for ever at Citroen and the number is his as long as Citroen wins the manu title.

[Andre Oliveira]

No! Number one is always to drivers champ. 2 to same team and then the manufacters classification. Ford won manufacters title and Loeb continues with #1 ;) Hyundai also uses 7 on photos!

[Brother John]

I think this thread fits better in the following link. :p

viewtopic.php?f=98&t=156891 (http://www.motorsportforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=156891) :beer:

[dimviii]

so at 16th of December Citroen will announce the driver line up http://www.wrc.com/news/citroen-names-t ... ?fid=19450 (http://www.wrc.com/news/citroen-names-the-date/?fid=19450)

[danon]

Quote: http://www.wrc.com/news/citroen-names-t ... ?fid=19450 (http://www.wrc.com/news/citroen-names-the-date/?fid=19450)

"In October Matton said he wanted his 2014 line-up to feature at least one ‘new talent’ who hadn’t won a rally or had been away from the WRC for a long time."

Valentino Rossi... :D

[stefanvv]

Nothing bad some lectures from the Doctor

[danon]

The "Hyena" fits the profile too... :D

Active years - 2005–present
Rallies - 84
Championships - 0
Rally wins - 0
Podiums - 0
Stage wins - 1

... big spender :laugh:

[BDA Cosworth]

I'm looking forward to support Hirvoven again in a Ford. :)

[Brother John]

I'm looking forward to support Hirvoven again in a Ford. :)

We wil see if he stay at WRC next year....+++
;)

[Andre Oliveira]

I like Ford, i like Hirvonen, but not like Ford + Hirvonen again :angryfire

[er88]

I like Ford, i like Hirvonen, but not like Ford + Hirvonen again :angryfire

What youd rather see a mediocre hirvonen in a citroen where he has no fight about him or pace?? Lets not forget hirvonen pushed loeb all the way in 2 championships when he was in the ford. Hirvonen back to ford is great imo

[Andre Oliveira]

With Latvala help too :D

[Doon]

With Latvala help too :D

Help how? I know there are many ifs, but if Latvala hadn't put it off on the Super Special at the end of Rally Poland 2009, Hirvonen would have won the Championship. Can't see how Latvala helped?

[stefanvv]

With Latvala help too :D

if Latvala hadn't put it off on the Super Special at the end of Rally Poland 2009, Hirvonen would have won the Championship.
How do you know that? How Hirvonen's 2nd place in Poland would win the championship?

[Andre Oliveira]

Australia 2011 is enought? When Latvala loses the position to him.

#3 Hirvonen Mikko - Lehtinen Jarmo "Unfortunately he lost his chances for the title already and we agreed in service that he would help me. But if it was he still had a chance we would fight level. I am very grateful that he has helped my chances of trying to win the championship this year."

[Rallyper]

However in the end that state was a mistake. You should never give up as long as there is a chance. Ford gave up and let Latvala play. And Mikko loose the WDC with one point possibly given in Poland...

[Andre Oliveira]

What Poland? Poland last rally on WRC was 2009.

[Rallyper]

What Poland? Poland last rally on WRC was 2009.

Sorry. Maybe it was Sardegnia 2009. Latvala was able to win when Ford could have done a Citroen by letting Mikko win and he´d been WRD in 2009.

[Doon]

Mikko won Rally Poland 2009, Latvala was 2nd going into the final stage (the SSS), he hit a water barrel, broke the suspension and effectively handed 2 points to Loeb. All with Malcolm Wilson and the Ford team watching. Leob won the title from Mikko by 1 point.

[Doon]

The "Hyena" fits the profile too... :D

Active years - 2005–present
Rallies - 84
Championships - 0
Rally wins - 0
Podiums - 0
Stage wins - 1

... big spender :laugh:

Who is this? Nasser?

[stefanvv]

Even with 1 point less for Loeb 2009, Hirvonen wouldn't be crowned champion

[danon]

Who is this? Nasser?

ask the Bohemian :D

[Rallyper]

Mikko won Rally Poland 2009, Latvala was 2nd going into the final stage (the SSS), he hit a water barrel, broke the suspension and effectively handed 2 points to Loeb. All with Malcolm Wilson and the Ford team watching. Leob won the title from Mikko by 1 point.

I said Sardegna.

[Sulland]

Would love to see all the guys we talk about here, bit that do not land a WRC seat to fight it out in WRC2 or ERC. Then we will drivers quality, driving in more or less equal equipment !

[kober]

So, who's left for M-Sport?

Team A:
- Hirvonen
- Kubica

Team B:
- Al-Attiyah / Evans
- Novikov ?

[Allar]

The "Hyena" fits the profile too... :D

Active years - 2005–present
Rallies - 84
Championships - 0
Rally wins - 0
Podiums - 0
Stage wins - 1

... big spender :laugh:

Who is this? Nasser?
Probably Prokop, but he has 90 WRC starts

[WUff1]

So, who's left for M-Sport?

Team A:
- Hirvonen
- Kubica

Team B:
- Al-Attiyah / Evans
- Novikov ?

I suppose these will be the drivers being presented too.

[COD]

Now that all other seats are filled, Wilson can sqeeze more money from the ones that are left :laugh:

[EightGear]

Novikov is far from confirmed I thought? I think I've read somewhere he doesn't have the backing he used to have anymore?