Kimi to Ferrari confirmed

[Mark]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24016050

They paid him to leave; now they pay him to come back!

[acescribe]

Bizarre on many levels but all somewhat typically F1 (Mansell back to Williams... Mansell in a McLaren et al)

I have a feeling we are not done with the "out there" announcements for 2014 yet.

[airshifter]

People have been saying it will never happen, and to be honest I don't know that Ferrari is the place for Kimi... But he has been hinting a lot on his Facebook page. I think the last mentioned about Ferrari is that they will make an official announcement of the driver on Wednesday this week.

[Mark]

Personally I think being teammates to Alonso for someone of Raikkonens stature is a mistake. He's better off being lead driver at Lotus. But I guess he has his reasons.

[The Black Knight]

To be honest, I will be surprised if Kimi is able to live with Alonso next year. Extremely surprised. I got word about this from a friend of mine about two days ago and wanted to post it but the forum has been down.

What has been going on there by the way?

Anyway, I think Raikkonen, unless he finds that speed he had at Mclaren, will be put to the wall by Alonso. Massa already beat him and Massa is nowhere near Raikkonen. Anyway, guess we'll see in time. I hope i'm wrong because I like Raikkonen I just don't rate him as highly as I do Alonso when it comes to getting the most out of the car.

[pino]

Italian newspapers have today confirmed this news too. Personally it's a great news for me :D

[Mia 01]

I´m very nervous at the moment, nothing is confirmed yet.

And pino, I´m as glad as you, when LDM says it.

[Tazio]

Italian newspapers have today confirmed this news too. Personally it's a great news for me :D
Kimi and Zo at Ferrari, what's the down side? :smokin: :uhoh: :bomb:

[donKey jote]

so it wasn't just the Spanish and German rags... :dork:

cool :D

(icey cool :p )

[Koz]

Disaster waiting to happen.
I'll go as far to say that if it is Fred and Kimi at Ferrari in 2014, it certainly won't be the case in 2015.

[steveaki13]

woah Big news.

Cant see that working to be honest.

[easy rider]

If Kimi signs on with Ferrari, it seems that will confirm his belief that Lotus don't have the resources to develop a winning car for him in 2014.

[N. Jones]

I saw on ESPN that Kimi sign and that Massa will depart. I only mention this because ESPN's coverage of F1 is shite; so if they are reporting this it must be true.

[Storm]

I posted here last night and I guess Mark tinkered with the forum at the same moment...anyways its nice to see Kimi back in a (hopefully) quick car again and 2 drivers I like in the same team. Will be good to fire up Fernando if there is some negativity after 4 Vettel years in his mind.

[Tazio]

Welcome back mate :dork:

[steveaki13]

Confirmed then.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24042352

Wow this is going to be fun.

[Tazio]

At the very least, it should fill some column inches :stareup: :dork: :sailor:
Goodbye Felipe! ;( Everyone knows you were faster than Fred :angel:

[JasonPotato]

Kimi to Ferrari
Massa to Lotus
Hulk or diresta to Lotus
Sirotkin to Sauber

Grosjean to torro rosso or force india?

[I am evil Homer]

I really like Massa on a personal level - he's dignified, intelligent and seems to love F1. And after the accident it was great to see him back but - and there's always a 'but' - if Ferrari want to be serious about even coming close to challenging for a constructors crown, they need someone more consistent. That's not to say I think Kimi is the answer as the potential fireworks could be quite something, hence you'd assume the 1 year contract with the 1 year follow-on option.

Last year was a bad one for Felipe, he looked really out of sorts. There have been flashes of old Felipe this year but not enough to make me think his career isn't on a downward trajectory, as sad as that is.

I hope he's still around next year as I think the grid needs someone of his class - both as a person and a driver.

[truefan72]

yup confirmed
http://eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula ... 5--f1.html (http://eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula-1-ferrari-confirm-raikkonen-return-120651855--f1.html)

that means hulkenberg joins Grosjean at Lotus
and Massa is out of F1 imo

my predictions are holding form

[janneppi]

It will be an interesting next year, that's for sure.

No one really comes out a winner here looking at next year, Kimi goes back to a team that sacked him, Zemolo has to hire a guy he fired once, Massa get's the boot and Alonso has to work with a former Ferrari WDC. :)

[Eunos]

Very interesting indeed, Kimi returning to Ferrari is defiantly not something I ever expected.

But like many I wonder if we will end up with another Senna/Prost or Alonso/Hamilton situation.

If Ferrari produces a good car next season this is going to be a very tough team to beat, however if ego's get the better of one another it could be a recipe for disaster.

Hopefully Raikkonen can stay motivated and pressure old fred :P

[Tazio]

http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Fernando+Alonso+Kimi+Raikkonen+F1+Grand+Prix+DBzzY sf9j5Gl.jpg

:dork:


It will be an interesting next year, that's for sure.

No one really comes out a winner here looking at next year, Kimi goes back to a team that sacked him, Zemolo has to hire a guy he fired once, Massa get's the boot and Alonso has to work with a former Ferrari WDC.
Let's see Kimi gets a big contract with a team that will actually pay him. Zemi and the Ferrari fans get two of the top four pilots in F1, and I don’t see the issue with Zo working with a former WDC, he'll know he has a fight on his hands from the get go. Only loser will be Massa, and I think he will get exactly what he deserves. Yes I'm quite sure life is going to suck for all involved parties :laugh: http://i46.tinypic.com/hv9ul3.gif
Edit: I almost forgot, biggest loser:

One team Lotus have this afternoon responded to news that their Finnish driver Kimi Raikkonen is to return to Ferrari next season with an extraordinary tweet showing two rabbits having sex, likening their driver's exit to being on the painful end of some love making. The tweet, shared to the teams 289,000 plus followers and beyond was shared as Ferrari confirmed Raikkonen's return a day after Felipe Massa announced his exit from the Ferrari seat in somewhat less controversial posts to his Instagram account. Shared with the image above, Lotus wrote: "So #Kimi is off to #Ferrari for 2014; it hurts a little bit… #F1 #Raikkonen pic.twitter.com/HkFhWvqpTo".
http://www.anchorfan.com/image/lotus-re ... 60821.html (http://www.anchorfan.com/image/lotus-respond-to-raikkonen-exit-with-rabbit-sex-tweet-60821.html)

http://cdnbakmi.kaltura.com/p/284332/thumbnail/entry_id/1_9n6bjpji/width/539/height/568/type/1/quality/80

Those freakin' guys at Lotus are either sore losers, or contrary to what the artical says
they are implying that they were the ones who got screwed not Kimi :confused: :grenade: :angel:

[Eunos]

As far as Massa goes I guess his only real option for a semi competitive drive next season would be Lotus.

Either that or return to Sauber or even Force India.

But It wouldnt suprise me personally to see him in something like Indycar or maybe even Nascar next season, we shall see,

[Mia 01]

Wow, at last it´s official. I´m so glad and even if it is a tall order tó beat fred I know kimi will do it.

And, I´m sure this was LDM:s revenge on fred.

[Tazio]

it is a tall order tó beat fred I know kimi will do it.

And, I´m sure this was LDM:s revenge on fred.
:stareup: :uhoh: :grenade: ;)
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWMWR5_cJa8GGegmvlqbp56ncS2dtER 1ZLL95YIK_1f7bWvaNhTQ

[veeten]

Hmmmm... so, LdM has come to his senses and signed back the only man that has won the WDC since Schu's "retirement". As Will Smith said in "I, Robot", ' you know, somehow, "I told you so" just doesn't quite say it'.

Sorry, Luca, but 'il Comendatore', you are not.

Asta Loego, Massa, for finding out the same lesson that your compatriot, Rubens, learned so bitterly; that 2nd banana on a top team won't automatically mean a #1 in the same place.

The difference between Kimi and the others that Alonso has paired with in the past is that differences will be settled on track, not in the press.

[easy rider]

Alot of fun for the fans, if Smedley should ever become Raikkonen's race engineer... :laugh:

[steveaki13]

I really hope Ferrari produce a good car next season. Imagine if we got a level playing field in terms of cars.

Vettel & Red Bull v Hamilton & Rosberg v Kimi & Alonso.

That makes your mouth water.

I personally think Alonso will be upset with this. Does anyone think he might leave as he wont want a rival (like the McLaren days)?

[Koz]

I for one am sad, with every team having a #1 & #2 drivers, can't see Ferrari being any different.

How many tenths does Alonso bring, again?

As long as Alonso qualifies better than Kimi, and has decent starts, I don't think Kimi will trouble him.

[Storm]

..I personally think Alonso will be upset with this. Does anyone think he might leave as he wont want a rival (like the McLaren days)?
leave and go where?

[steveaki13]

Retire :D

No you're right. There is really nowhere left to go.

The only real option would be Lotus (old Renault). However they as we know have little or no money

[555-04Q2]

Well this is very surprising news! Gonna be an interesting season at Ferrari in 2014!

[DexDexter]

I for one am sad, with every team having a #1 & #2 drivers, can't see Ferrari being any different.

How many tenths does Alonso bring, again?

As long as Alonso qualifies better than Kimi, and has decent starts, I don't think Kimi will trouble him.

You're underestimating Kimi here, I mean all the past evidence suggests that Kimi is one of the best drivers out there, so he'll certainly trouble Alonso, more than any other teammate in the past bar Lewis.

[Big Ben]

I don't mind an honest intra-team fight between FA and KR but I do mind the advantage Vettel will have from this. He already has a car over the rest of the field and a team mate that doesn't bother him. I'm skeptic for the next season and I've already lost interest in this one.

[555-04Q2]

Those freakin' guys at Lotus are either sore losers, or contrary to what the artical says
they are implying that they were the ones who got screwed not Kimi :confused: :grenade: :angel:

Baring some good performances and a have decent car, Lotus have been very amateurish this year as far as corporate speak goes.

[Tazio]

I for one am sad, with every team having a #1 & #2 drivers, can't see Ferrari being any different.

How many tenths does Alonso bring, again?

As long as Alonso qualifies better than Kimi, and has decent starts, I don't think Kimi will trouble him.

You're underestimating Kimi here, I mean all the past evidence suggests that Kimi is one of the best drivers out there, so he'll certainly trouble Alonso, more than any other teammate in the past bar Lewis.
A fair assessment Dex, discount Kimi at your own peril, plus I just don't believe that Ice would accept a # 2 status. SD has already gone on record as saying that Kimi and Zo will start next season on equal terms. All the talk about this upsetting a team that is already unsettled is really nonsense. SD isn't going anywhere. Zemo isn't pissed off at Fred, and the addition of Allison now seems to be linked to signing Kimi.
Here are the words of SD:

Everyone has their own ways and you can't expect a Finn to start telling jokes in Italian or playing the clown," he said. "Honestly, I think the combination of Fernando's expressive and passionate Latin character and the cool style, to call it that, of someone like Kimi, seems to appeal to many.
As for the technical side of things, not only do we know full well how much Kimi can contribute at an important time like this...but we also have first hand information from James Allison, as to how much the Finn has also progressed in this area over the past two years.

The opinion of SpongeBob (someone who had Ice as a teammate) may well be more relevant than that of the naysayers:


In my opinion, Fernando is the complete driver and will raise his game with Kimi there for the next two seasons, which is a worry for everyone else.
May the forza be with both of them :r2d2: :dork:

[kfzmeister]

plus I just don't believe that Ice would accept a # 2 status.

Massa didn't exactly accept #2 status. It was the beginning of the end. :D

[Tazio]

plus I just don't believe that Ice would accept a # 2 status.

Massa didn't exactly accept #2 status. It was the beginning of the end. :D
I guess we'll just have to wait and see! :stareup: :erm: ;)

[Mia 01]

Kimi in the team is a sign to a certain driver as a couple of pundits (and me) belive. The one man show is now over, it´s not his team anymoore. Accept it or move on is the deal.

We will see, interesting times ahead.

[Tazio]

Kimi in the team is a sign to a certain driver as a couple of pundits (and me) belive. The one man show is now over, it´s not his team anymoore. Accept it or move on is the deal.

We will see, interesting times ahead.
That sounds like a load of petty BS to me. What it obviously does mean is Ferrari want the WCC, and are willing to pay Ice a ton of money for his consistancy to get it whether or not Zo is overjoyed with the choice of teammates. It really is as simple as that. There always will be journalistic hacks that want to put a spin on it, which is incredibly lame IMO.
Of course it is implied by any employer that if you don't like your coworkers you always know where the door is.
So what?

[555-04Q2]

[quote="Mia 01":2lw306zg]Kimi in the team is a sign to a certain driver as a couple of pundits (and me) belive. The one man show is now over, it´s not his team anymoore. Accept it or move on is the deal.

We will see, interesting times ahead.
That sounds like a load of petty BS to me. What it obviously does mean is Ferrari want the WCC, and are willing to pay Ice a ton of money for his consistancy to get it whether or not Zo is overjoyed with the choice of teammates. It really is as simple as that. There always will be journalistic hacks that want to put a spin on it, which is incredibly lame IMO.
Of course it is implied by any employer that if you don't like your coworkers you always know where the door is.
So what?[/quote:2lw306zg]

Indeed. Ferrari love Alonso's go for it 110% all the time attitude. I don't think they would push him out the door to accommodate Kimi in any way, shape or form. If there does happen to be a major dispute next year between the drivers and one has to go, for me, it would Kimi out the door again.

Alonso is once again showing how good he is. He's second in the DC in not the second best car (that would be Webber and maybe the Mercs as well ahead overall) and is always pushing in the top 3 of the DC no matter what cr@p he is given to drive. He's a class act, his record is a reflection of this. The one thing that he just can't do anything about, is a young German genius in a very very fast and reliable car that is a combination that no one has been able to match for 80% of the last 4 years.

[Tazio]

Right on triple 5 :up:
I think Webbers (someone that actually knows Fred quite well) comments address the situation with much insight. He is on his way out so he doesn't have to mince his words:

"The positives for me are that Fernando needs to be pushed more on Saturday afternoons; which he will live for.

"Kimi will lift him and help him to get a bit more out of himself on Saturday afternoons. On Sundays there is no question, we know Fernando is a brilliant racer, but on Saturdays Kimi will lift him to another level.

"Fernando will also see it as an opportunity to do well against Kimi. He will back himself in this situation."

What Raikkonen has to do to succeed at Ferrari


Webber does think, however, that Ferrari will need to ensure that Raikkonen does his fair share of work at the factory, so Alonso does not feel hard done by.

"The team will have to be careful on the technical front," explained the Australian. "Kimi we know is a phenomenal guy, but it will be interesting to see if Fernando feels it will be even in terms of the work rate going on.

"It is a big, big technical challenge next year. Both drivers have to put a lot into that and I don't think Fernando will be too happy if it is all one sided."

[555-04Q2]

Right on triple 5 :up:
I think Webbers (someone that actually knows Fred quite well) comments address the situation with much insight. He is on his way out so he doesn't have to mince his words:

"The positives for me are that Fernando needs to be pushed more on Saturday afternoons; which he will live for.

"Kimi will lift him and help him to get a bit more out of himself on Saturday afternoons. On Sundays there is no question, we know Fernando is a brilliant racer, but on Saturdays Kimi will lift him to another level.

"Fernando will also see it as an opportunity to do well against Kimi. He will back himself in this situation."

What Raikkonen has to do to succeed at Ferrari


Webber does think, however, that Ferrari will need to ensure that Raikkonen does his fair share of work at the factory, so Alonso does not feel hard done by.

"The team will have to be careful on the technical front," explained the Australian. "Kimi we know is a phenomenal guy, but it will be interesting to see if Fernando feels it will be even in terms of the work rate going on.

"It is a big, big technical challenge next year. Both drivers have to put a lot into that and I don't think Fernando will be too happy if it is all one sided."

Yeah Alonso is a hard worker behind the scenes much like The Shoe was which is why I think Ferrari also rate him so much along with his driving skills. Kimi was notoriously lazy during his time at Ferrari (he just wanted to jump in the car 5 minutes before the race and then go home afterwards). Next year will be interesting for sure.

[Mia 01]

Mark webber is not Kimis best buddy, sort of, since a long time.

Kimi Lazy, that´s a good yoke!!

[555-04Q2]

Kimi Lazy, that´s a good yoke!!

In an interview I saw with Kimi, he said the following and I quote directly word for word:

Q: Kimi, how is the cooperation in the Team. Do you get along with everyone?
KR: Yeah it´s fine. But they have a much harder time with me than I with anyone else.
Q: What do you mean?
KR: I am a bit lazy sometimes.

From the horses mouth. Nuff said Mia 01.

[Tazio]

[quote="Mia 01":2i15dtmu]Kimi Lazy, that´s a good yoke!!

In an interview I saw with Kimi, he said the following and I quote directly word for word:

Q: Kimi, how is the cooperation in the Team. Do you get along with everyone?
KR: Yeah it´s fine. But they have a much harder time with me than I with anyone else.
Q: What do you mean?
KR: I am a bit lazy sometimes.

From the horses mouth. Nuff said Mia 01.[/quote:2i15dtmu]
Oh sssssssssnap :laugh:

But really, I don't know anyone that dislikes Kimi. In almost all of your recent posts you try to turn it into "us against them ." Why do you have to be such an antagonist? Why don't you just groove on how well Kimi has done since he came back to F1 instead of constantly seeking some vindication for the circumstances in which he left? Saying that someone else is less deserving doesn't make Ice any more deserving; let the results speak for themselves. If Kimi punks Fred so be it. If he doesn't because Ferrari doesn’t really give him the opportunity to, it is probably better to address it when it happens. I must say you're being a bit of a downer :dozey:

[555-04Q2]

Oh sssssssssnap :laugh:

But really, I don't know anyone that dislikes Kimi. In almost all of your recent posts you try to turn it into "us against them ." Why do you have to be such an antagonist? Why don't you just groove on how well Kimi has done since he came back to F1 instead of constantly seeking some vindication for the circumstances in which he left? Saying that someone else is less deserving doesn't make Ice any more deserving; let the results speak for themselves. If Kimi punks Fred so be it. If he doesn't because Ferrari doesn’t really give him the opportunity to, it is probably better to address it when it happens. I must say you're being a bit of a downer :dozey:

Sorry teacher, I will try and be more open minded in future :p:

Now where did I drop my joint :bandit:

[Tazio]

:stareup: Sorry for the confusion 555, my post was directed at Mia :idea:

[airshifter]

[quote="Mia 01":22p3yr99]Kimi in the team is a sign to a certain driver as a couple of pundits (and me) belive. The one man show is now over, it´s not his team anymoore. Accept it or move on is the deal.

We will see, interesting times ahead.
That sounds like a load of petty BS to me. What it obviously does mean is Ferrari want the WCC, and are willing to pay Ice a ton of money for his consistancy to get it whether or not Zo is overjoyed with the choice of teammates. It really is as simple as that. There always will be journalistic hacks that want to put a spin on it, which is incredibly lame IMO.
Of course it is implied by any employer that if you don't like your coworkers you always know where the door is.
So what?[/quote:22p3yr99]

In reality all any of us can do is speculate unless we can see the specifics of contracts. I didn't take Mia's comment to say that Alonso is on the way out, but rather that he will now have a team mate that will challenge him in driving ability. Though I rate Alonso as one of the best, I also rate Kimi as one of the best. I certainly hope that Kimi didn't settle for any contract that would make him a #2 driver by default, and I think the simple fact that Ferrari wanted him back shows that they saw their error in getting rid of him the first time around... after all he is their last WDC. The Kimi/Felipe combo also resulted in two years of constructors titles as well.... evasive since.

Domenicali has stated both drivers will be given equal status. I hope his sticks to his word on this, as it would be good for both drivers IMO.

Kimi's Facebook page suggested that he had multiple teams interested in him, and just before the Ferrari announcement he had indicated he would make his decision soon. This leads me to think that the offer was there waiting for him. I hope it works with both drivers pushing each other as I think it would hurt both of them and Ferrari to allow either to dominate the team priorities.

This is a dream driver lineup in the works, or the lead up to a giant fireworks show IMO. It could easily humble either of them depending on how it works out. Personally I think Alonso has more to lose, as Kimi wouldn't likely be upset if he was beaten in a fair fight. Alonso has mellowed as well, so if he was beaten it might not be the fireworks that it was at McLaren with Hamilton.


But only time will tell, and I'm just speculating along with everyone else. With Stefano in the mix it could well be that they now have two great drivers, both WDC's, but end up with a dog of a car for the new season and fire everyone in sight.

[Mia 01]

Great post airshifter!

I hope that all understand that it is my fear that Fred will try to make Kimi his lapdog and take the team with him in that mission. I hope that the team gives both equal material (and no multi 21 thanks), then next year will be fun.

[airshifter]

If we could get RB to do the same it would be even better, but I have more hope that Ferrari will treat the drivers as equals. I also think there is mutual respect between Kimi and Fernando, so Alonso shouldn't be too upset when Kimi takes another WDC. :laugh:

[Mia 01]

Ha ha ha, that was fun airshifter.
I hope so, very much hope so. Anyway, it will be fun.

[Parabolica]

It is up to Kimi to make sure that Alonso does not take the team in his direction. Nobody else.

Is he capable of stopping it?

I don't know how it will be this time.

Previous history of him at Ferrari is that he didn't, but there is a chance he will be wiser this time.

He needs to be.

[tfp]

Kimi is twice as motivated now as he was when he was last at Ferrari, were gonna see fire works in Italy now, and I reckon Kimi is gonna come out on top....

[Parabolica]

Twice as motivated as last time?

The thing about that is that the Equation would be as follows -

2 x 0 = 0.

He wasn't motivated at all last time, so it appeared.

You can't multiply zeros.

What I hope for is that Kimi steps up to the job, is forceful behind the scenes and does not allow another Massa-favoured -suspension-development situation to occur.

After 2007 he had the world at his feet, and for whatever reason he did not take advantage of it. The 2008 title was his for the taking if he had been more forceful. Letting Ferrari be swayed by Schumachers latent influence to favour Massa in development in 2008 was a mistake. If his character is still the same, I suspect Fernando will use that as a weakness.

That is not to say that Alonso is without weaknesses that Kimi can take advantage of. It is up to him to do so and to protect himself in a way he did not do in 2008.

For me, a real Champion is one who does not concede the slightest advantage to a team-mate without putting up a hell of a fight.

Can Kimi fight outside the car? In the garage? In the factory?

That, I suspect, is where this battle will be won, as it has been with all previous great driver match-ups.

[ShiftingGears]

It is up to Kimi to make sure that Alonso does not take the team in his direction. Nobody else.

Is he capable of stopping it?

I don't know how it will be this time.

Previous history of him at Ferrari is that he didn't, but there is a chance he will be wiser this time.

He needs to be.

Indeed. I want to see a great teammate battle at Ferrari and I want to see them both fighting for the championship.

[DexDexter]

Twice as motivated as last time?

The thing about that is that the Equation would be as follows -

2 x 0 = 0.

He wasn't motivated at all last time, so it appeared.

You can't multiply zeros.

What I hope for is that Kimi steps up to the job, is forceful behind the scenes and does not allow another Massa-favoured -suspension-development situation to occur.

After 2007 he had the world at his feet, and for whatever reason he did not take advantage of it. The 2008 title was his for the taking if he had been more forceful. Letting Ferrari be swayed by Schumachers latent influence to favour Massa in development in 2008 was a mistake. If his character is still the same, I suspect Fernando will use that as a weakness.

That is not to say that Alonso is without weaknesses that Kimi can take advantage of. It is up to him to do so and to protect himself in a way he did not do in 2008.

For me, a real Champion is one who does not concede the slightest advantage to a team-mate without putting up a hell of a fight.

Can Kimi fight outside the car? In the garage? In the factory?

That, I suspect, is where this battle will be won, as it has been with all previous great driver match-ups.

I think he can by staying out of politics and being his own man. IMO Ferrari understand him better now after having seen him at Lotus.

[Parabolica]

If he doesn't do politics, he has learnt nothing.

It isn't just Ferrari who need to understand the other party.

Kimi needs to understand that, and so do his fans.

[dj_bytedisaster]

After 2007 he had the world at his feet, and for whatever reason he did not take advantage of it. The 2008 title was his for the taking if he had been more forceful. Letting Ferrari be swayed by Schumachers latent influence to favour Massa in development in 2008 was a mistake. If his character is still the same, I suspect Fernando will use that as a weakness.

That's the biggest load of bovine excrement I've read in a while. In 2008 Kimi had more bad luck than webber, that's why things went tits-up.

I quote myself from a different forum:
He could only qualify 15th in Australia because of mechanical failure in qualifying, therefore lost the race before it even began. Lost 2nd place in Monaco due to drive-through given for a team infraction then lost control on a wet patch after the tunnel and cluttered into Sutil. Exhaust failure in France handing the lead to Massa. Tactical fail by team in Silverstone – wrong tyres, lost lead and ended up 4th. Had to wait behind Massa in the pits during safety car at Germany, Had to queue behind Massa again after crash-gate induced safety car at Singapore. Nerfed off by Hamílton at Suzuka while in the lead. Had to let Massa through at China.

Massa was never in the same league, but Kimi’s 2008 campaign makes Webber look like the luckiest person on earth.

[Parabolica]

Ok.

I thought I should give you an opportunity to see if you could actually debate.

It seems not.

I think its best you go back on the ignore list

[Mia 01]

After 2007 he had the world at his feet, and for whatever reason he did not take advantage of it. The 2008 title was his for the taking if he had been more forceful. Letting Ferrari be swayed by Schumachers latent influence to favour Massa in development in 2008 was a mistake. If his character is still the same, I suspect Fernando will use that as a weakness.

That's the biggest load of bovine excrement I've read in a while. In 2008 Kimi had more bad luck than webber, that's why things went tits-up.

I quote myself from a different forum:
He could only qualify 15th in Australia because of mechanical failure in qualifying, therefore lost the race before it even began. Lost 2nd place in Monaco due to drive-through given for a team infraction then lost control on a wet patch after the tunnel and cluttered into Sutil. Exhaust failure in France handing the lead to Massa. Tactical fail by team in Silverstone – wrong tyres, lost lead and ended up 4th. Had to wait behind Massa in the pits during safety car at Germany, Had to queue behind Massa again after crash-gate induced safety car at Singapore. Nerfed off by Hamílton at Suzuka while in the lead. Had to let Massa through at China.

Massa was never in the same league, but Kimi’s 2008 campaign makes Webber look like the luckiest person on earth.

Thanks for that great post!

I felt both sorry and angry for Kimis sake at the time.

[Parabolica]

On the contrary -

http://kimiraikkonenspace.com/2008/11/2 ... -happened/ (http://kimiraikkonenspace.com/2008/11/27/kimis-2008-season-what-happened/)

"Basically the tyre is going to an oversteer tendency during the
race," says Hamashima. "Maybe the car is a little bit understeery, but
as the tyres move more towards oversteer Kimi finds a good balance and
as a result could get the best lap in the race."

And

"Of course, there were races where the characteristics of the circuit
- Magny-Cours for example – meant he was able to get the tyre warm-up
right in qualifying and was able to excel on Saturday afternoon. There
were also times – Spa for example – where Raikkonen was able to charge
to the front on the opening lap, and we witnessed a performance worthy
of a world champion.

But, the fact was, there were just too many races where his struggle
to adapt his driving style to the understeering Ferrari F2008
undermined his chances"

So, as can be seen, there isn't just the "unlucky" tag to contend with in 2008.

[Parabolica]

And, of course, to the crux of the issue back then - and, please note, these words are from Kimi himself -

"That is the way it is," Raikkonen recently told Finnish TV station MTV3
when asked about his motivation. "If you know you are fighting only for
third place then you maybe don’t have the same speed for the whole race
as normal. If you have no chance to overtake or improve your position,
it is definitely not very interesting. When you are driving for the
title, naturally, things are completely different."

http://kimiraikkonenspace.com/2008/11/2 ... -happened/

And, for me, that was not good enough then and it won't be good enough next time if it is the same.

As I have said, though, I really hope it is different.

[Tazio]

I felt both sorry and angry for Kimis sake at the time.
I really hope that Ice puts his head down and embraces the technical aspect of the car; no one is questioning his ability behind the wheel yet. If he doesn't you know Fred will, and that would be to Kim’s detriment. But more importantly I hope he succeeds for your sake, because you are so seriously emotionally invested in him, and the outcome. I hope we don't have to put you on suicide watch if Fred clocks him, gurl ;)

[Parabolica]

If anyone is willing to read -

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/schum ... -1863.html (http://www.autoevolution.com/news/schumacher-confirms-distant-raikkonen-1863.html)

The important part is this -

"The German insisted that part of Kimi's loss in form in the second part of the season was because the Fin failed to adapt to the new developments introduced by Ferrari in the mid-season. I think I have to protect him in many ways, because in the middle of the season we made some developments to the car but Kimi simply didn't get on with these ones. The moment we went back to those changes, we got him back to competitive lap times,” added the former Ferrari champ"

This was a vital issue for me. Why on earth did the reigning World Champion, the man who should be the boss of the development direction, not instantly demand that the new developments were dropped when they did not suit him?

This must not happen again, and it shows that 2008 was about much more than simple luck.

[DexDexter]

If he doesn't do politics, he has learnt nothing.

It isn't just Ferrari who need to understand the other party.

Kimi needs to understand that, and so do his fans.

I don't think he needs to be political, he just needs people that understand him around him and he's got those now: James Allison, Pat Fry (knows him from Mclaren) Slade?, Domenicali. Who has Alonso got? If he starts to be political again, he may wall end up shooting in his own foot.

[Tazio]

:stareup: Which Fred knows, and is honing his skills because he will need his A-game to beat Kimi, and vise versa!
Zo aint thinking about anything except making the car fast for him. Problem is they both like the oversteerish handling so it's just like Fred and The Boss in that regard
May the forza be with both of them.
Best Wishes,

http://i.imgur.com/aBmAP6U.jpg

:dork:

[Tazio]

I'm just saying...thaT LIKE like whatever!

[Parabolica]

With all due respect Dex, Allison was at Renault when Alonso was winning titles there, so they will know each other too. Fry has an existing relationship with Alonso, as does Domenicali. That leaves Slade, who is almost certain to be Kimi's engineer so would not have much to do with Fernando anyway.

Kimi failed to build.a rapport the last time he was at Ferrari, so we need to see if he has added that to his game.

To claim Fernando has no one in his corner, when he is embedded within the team and has provided the driving leadership that was clearly lacking in Kimi's previous residency is a little premature.

Again, for the Kimi fans, it is not his speed I question, it is the application.

Alonso has many character faults which have been destructive in the past, but I also see that Kimi is not without genuine failings of character too.

[DexDexter]

With all due respect Dex, Allison was at Renault when Alonso was winning titles there, so they will know each other too. Fry has an existing relationship with Alonso, as does Domenicali. That leaves Slade, who is almost certain to be Kimi's engineer so would not have much to do with Fernando anyway.

Kimi failed to build.a rapport the last time he was at Ferrari, so we need to see if he has added that to his game.

To claim Fernando has no one in his corner, when he is embedded within the team and has provided the driving leadership that was clearly lacking in Kimi's previous residency is a little premature.

Again, for the Kimi fans, it is not his speed I question, it is the application.

Alonso has many character faults which have been destructive in the past, but I also see that Kimi is not without genuine failings of character too.

Everybody's got flaws,you're right on that. IMO Alonso's status in the team is no longer what it was,they wouldn't have hired Kimi if it was. Alonso's leadership has brought nothing to the team in terms of results, it's not better than it was before he came, so they changed strategy and brought another WDC in. It must hurt Alonso,the question is how will he take it?

[dj_bytedisaster]

Alonso's standing in the team has most certainly taken a knock or two. According to TJ13's sources in the team, he's nicknamed 'shit layer' among the personnel. Now call me old-fashioned, but that's a rather unflattering honour. For all his Samurai talk, he hasn't delivered. Of course he didn't break Ferrari's wind tunnel, but the way he treated the team lately can't go over well with them.
And now comes the man, who scored the last title for Ferrari. Most likely the team will initially rally behind Kimi, which might tip the scales in Kimi's favour in the early season. Fernando has burned several bridges by publicly slagging off the crew. It'll take time to repair that damage.

[Tazio]

According to TJ13's sources in the team

Most likely the team will initially rally behind Kimi, which might tip the scales in Kimi's favour in the early season.

Who are these "sources," please name them.
Are you referring to this little piece of provocative speculation?

I can’t wait to be driving a Prancing Horse car again and to reacquaint myself with so many people with whom I had such close links, as well as working with Fernando, whom I consider a great driver, in order to bring the team the success it deserves.”

Mmm. “Reaquant myself with so many people”, Sounds like Fernando will still be the black sheep of the family and called ‘shit layer’ behgind his back, whilst Kimi breezes in and sucks up all the Massa love.

Then we have “I can’t wait to be driving a Prancing Horse car again….. in order to bring the team the success it deserves.” So Alonso and his previous team mate have failed on this mission, but Kimi will be the difference. Mmm.

Of course, there is also in this statement a reference to winning a world championship title with Ferrari, something Nando has failed to deliver. More and more Mmm.

Is it me or is this a highly political polemic? Or do I need to lie down for a while???
http://thejudge13.com/2013/09/11/daily- ... 2013/#Kimi (http://thejudge13.com/2013/09/11/daily-f1-news-and-comment-wednesday-11th-september-2013/#Kimi) fans start the banter

Dude seriously needs to lay down a while because that is predicated on a premise that the author admits is pure speculation, and it comes off as wishful thinking aimed at pleasing the Ice fan base, bro. It's nothing but popular tripe. Sorry dude that is not responsible journalism, representative of fact, or based on anything stated by a Ferrari official. Honestly I didn't think you of all people would resort to these kinds of tactics. Are you just trying to stir up some excrement, because this kind of attack should be called what it is; chicken excrement. :laugh:
It is absolute nonsense, the team is behind both pilots as stated by the Team Principal, and I can't find a single quote from anyone else (that matters) saying otherwise. With all due respect I believe you have fallen for the Northern European version of popular tripe regarding Kimi and Zo. :crazy:
However if true it will play out. I can barely stand the wait to see none of this come to fruition :dork:
May the forza be with them both.
Best wishes,
http://i.imgur.com/aBmAP6U.jpg

[Parabolica]

But, Alca, it's from an obscure blog site, so it must be true!!!

I believe my decision to re-activate the Ignore button has been wholly vindicated.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Well, y'all might call TJ's blog obscure, I go with the facts. He reported Kimi's imminent arrival at Ferrari a whole two weeks before any other media outfit even speculated about it. He had detailled quotes from the FIA hearing days before they were reported elsewhere. So suffice to say, he seems to have insider contacts that are not only real, but also fairly reliable. And before some comes with the good old 'name the sources' BS - the whole point of an inside source is to remain anonymous, Einstein :hmph:

[dj_bytedisaster]

But, Alca, it's from an obscure blog site, so it must be true!!!

I believe my decision to re-activate the Ignore button has been wholly vindicated.

How come you react to my posts, cav, if I'm supposedly on your ignore list :laugh:

[Tazio]

Well, y'all might call TJ's blog obscure, I go with the facts. He reported Kimi's imminent arrival at Ferrari a whole two weeks before any other media outfit even speculated about it. He had detailled quotes from the FIA hearing days before they were reported elsewhere. So suffice to say, he seems to have insider contacts that are not only real, but also fairly reliable. And before some comes with the good old 'name the sources' BS - the whole point of an inside source is to remain anonymous, Einstein :hmph:
But dude himself, in his own words says he may be way off base, and "seems" is the operative word in your arguement, Anyone can say that they are privy to the inner workings a team.


the whole point of an inside source is to remain anonymous
It is also convenient that by being an anonymous "source" is if you are full of sh!t" you don't hav e to be accountable, so what you have posted is hearsay and not substanciated.
You go with "facts?" Please point out the facts in these assersions, Hegel :monkee:

[airshifter]

Seems like the Alonso fans are already a bit shaken. We know he doesn't have 6/10ths, but the question is will he have any over Kimi? As for the bickering over a blog, even if speculation it's the same thing everyone is doing here. Does anyone have any evidence that said person does not have inside information? From what I've seen the source seems to have valid info before it's reported elsewhere on a number of occasions.

I can see the off season will be a lot of fighting based on speculation. :)

[Parabolica]

I am a Ferrari fan, not a driver fan.

What I see is a driver who has become frustrated by Ferrari's performance.

His name is Fernando Alonso.

I have never felt he lacked commitment.

What I also see is a driver who caused Ferrari to question his commitment. His name isn't Alonso.

As I continually state, I pray that is not the case again, but forgive me for having major doubts.

That Kimi's fans ignore his previous actions and blame everyone but Kimi? It is telling. I am a fan of Ferrari, but my adoration is not without critical faculties when they make poor decisions.

Previous history with Kimi makes this decision questionable.

If he sticks it to Alonso, I have the personal tragedy of being proved wrong as Ferrari win.

I can live with that.

[Mia 01]

Kimi never blame the team, car, factory or Newey in public.

I like Kimi!

[Big Ben]

But, Alca, it's from an obscure blog site, so it must be true!!!

I believe my decision to re-activate the Ignore button has been wholly vindicated.

How come you react to my posts, cav, if I'm supposedly on your ignore list :laugh:


I've never used the ignore option but I think it doesn't protect you from seeing the quotes from an ignored users.

[Parabolica]

From the quote from Schumacher I provided, it is clear that Kimi didn't complain in private either. Not enough, anyway.

That is why I don't like him.

A lack of public criticism may be good for morale, and it may also be a negative if it isn't matched by complaints behind closed doors if it allows complacency.

As Webber said last week, if Alonso is doing the bulk of the work, is demanding more and perceives an inequality in work ethic, that is going to cause problems which are, at source, Kimi's fault.

Now, if Kimi is leading the Championship, if Kimi is winning more races, if he wins at Monza, then Alonso can cry all he likes for me.

If Kimi doesn't add sufficient value to the team, then Alonso has every right to let everyone know.

Then the Tifosi can judge.

[Parabolica]

[quote=Parabolica]But, Alca, it's from an obscure blog site, so it must be true!!!

I believe my decision to re-activate the Ignore button has been wholly vindicated.

How come you react to my posts, cav, if I'm supposedly on your ignore list :laugh:


I've never used the ignore option but I think it doesn't protect you from seeing the quotes from an ignored users.[/quote:3cx1lisy]

Thank you for pointing that out.

[Tazio]

I like Kimi!
You don't say? :dork:



I've never used the ignore option but I think it doesn't protect you from seeing the quotes from an ignored users.
An inconvient truth for the vindictive :down:

Seems like the Alonso fans are already a bit shaken.
We know he doesn't have 6/10ths, but the question is will he have any over Kimi? As for the bickering over a blog, Does anyone have any evidence that said person does not have inside information? From what I've seen the source seems to have valid info before it's reported elsewhere on a number of occasions.

I can see the off season will be a lot of fighting based on speculation. :)


Ferrari fan here and not shaken in the least. I hope Kimi kicks some serious ass for the team; it’s just that I see some rather hilarious "chip on her shoulder" type of juvinile resentment from certain members. This generally comes from not ever having been an athlete, so they live their lives vicariously through a faultless god, others are quite reasonable though. I would suggest you re-read the blog (I posted the link in a previous comment) I'm pretty sure this is another case of you taking the opportunity to talk sophomoric smack that you are quite fond of, because that particular piece is garbage. My argument regarding the blog is not based on speculation, it is an argument that merely points out that a blogger who writes a lot of good stuff has taken to provocative speculation, and that is what I'm calling it. If certain members want to use it to help them feel better about their dream that Zo will crumble under the relentless pressure from Ice that is fine, I'm just not buying it.

Here are more words of wisdom from TJ13.


Fernando’s comment about winning 3 or 4 consecutive races is delusional – and he knows it. This clearly demonstrates his utter lack of belief that the team can deliver him anything remotely competitive to fight the Red Bull, Lotus and Mercedes cars Red Bull yes at least not likely this season. Not capable of being competitive with Mercedes and Lotus? :rotflmao: Wrong!! Not only is this guy way off in his prognostication, heseems to think he is a mind reader in this matter. That is irresponsible journalism. It's Felipe that can't drive the car, or Ferrari would be firmly in 2nd in the WCC race. Of course one should never let facts get in the way of a good story :dozey:


even if speculation it's the same thing everyone is doing here.
Which is exactly why it should not be used as evidence to substanciate an opinnion :idea:

[Parabolica]

Could I take this opportunity to point out that I was replying to Alca's post which quoted the blog, and not replying to the poster who supplied the link
I had given him a second-chance, thinking I may have been hasty and caught him on a bad day, which happens to us all, but it would appear that his natural approach to posting is what I encountered first time.

Just so that clears it up.

[Tazio]

I wonder how much Ferrari is paying Felipe to blatantly dis' Kimi with the example of not only Fred but Mike also being a better driver than Ice?


Massa has partnered three World Champions during his eight years at Ferrari; first teaming up with Schumacher then Kimi Raikkonen and finally Alonso.

And although on paper Schumacher is the most successful of the trio with his seven Drivers' titles and his 91 race victories, Massa rates Alonso above the German.

"I've always had very strong team-mates," he said in an interview with Sky Sports F1.

"I always learnt that you need to be perfect because if you're not perfect they will be in front of you.

"For sure I've had some tough times as well with strong team-mates. The one was suffering more [against] was Alonso. I think maybe he's more complete.

"Schumacher was very, very good. He was amazing and a very complete driver as well. But I think maybe Alonso is even more perfect."

http://www.aperfectworld.org/cartoons/2 ... chslap.gif (http://www.aperfectworld.org/cartoons/2002/bitchslap.gif)

Oh wait; it can't be the team influencing him to say such things because “The Judge” proved beyond a shadow of a doubt:



the team will initially rally behind Kimi, which might tip the scales in Kimi's favour in the early season.

It has to be Zo begging Felipe to please say he is better than Kimi. :confused:
Or is Massa trying to up his stock by saying he is still really fast,
just not as fast as a living god :dozey:http://i46.tinypic.com/hv9ul3.gif :sailor: http://i46.tinypic.com/hv9ul3.gif :angel:

[dj_bytedisaster]

Oh wait; it can't be the team influencing him to say such things because “The Judge” proved beyond a shadow of a doubt:



the team will initially rally behind Kimi, which might tip the scales in Kimi's favour in the early season.


The quote you presented is not from any of TJ's articles, so what does that have to do with it?

[Tazio]

Yeah, could I get you please not bother me with minor details while I'm in the zone, Thanks. :rolleyes: ;)
Best wishes,
http://i.imgur.com/aBmAP6U.jpg

[Parabolica]

http://www.racingnerds.com/?p=2906

"Kimi Räikkönen going to Ferrari has among Italians widely been interpreted so that Kimi’s sacking in 2009 was a big mistake.
MTV3 revealed on Wednesday evening an interesting detail concerning the contract negotiations: Räikkönen demanded an apology from Luca di Montezemolo – and he got it!
- When it comes to the apology, I have understood that the concrete apology was a demand before continuing the negotiations with Ferrari. And it was specifically from Montezemolo to Räikkönen in person, Oskari Saari told.
According to some information the bad blood between Räikkönen and di Montezemo could had prevented the contract from happening. But now they will work together starting from next season.
- After the signature these things are now sealed and put int the bundle with past happenings. They can move forward, Saari said in Tulosruutu.
http://www.suomif1.com/2013/09/mtv3-tul "

Forgive my cynicism, but I think I'll file this under "Kimi Fan Fantasy".

I seriously doubt that, had Luca and Kimi's relationship previously been such an issue, that Montezemolo would bow to such a demand.

He is many things, Mr Luca, but he isn't soft.

Furthermore, making demands like this won't sit well with any management. I just don't buy it.

However, it seems there are enough people who will believe any old tripe spouted in regard to Kimi, Ferrari and Fernando. Some of the blogs and sites I've looked at in the last few days - well, if they had been in old fashioned printed paper, I wouldn't classify them as good enough to wipe my backside with.

[Big Ben]

They've just stopped short from saying Kimi had LDM do all this on his knees :laugh:

[Tazio]

Odd that I can't find that reported on anywhere else in the English speaking world :confused:
I left a comment on that page, but it is still "awaiting moderation" :laugh:

[555-04Q2]

They neglected to mention that LDM is willing to give Kimi a BJ whenever he wins a race next year. It's in point 7.6 of section 3 in his contract for 2014.

[SGWilko]

They neglected to mention that LDM is willing to give Kimi a BJ whenever he wins a race next year. It's in point 7.6 of section 3 in his contract for 2014.
Clause 7.7 covers swallowing I am lead to believe.......

[Bagwan]

They neglected to mention that LDM is willing to give Kimi a BJ whenever he wins a race next year. It's in point 7.6 of section 3 in his contract for 2014.
Clause 7.7 covers swallowing I am lead to believe.......

TMCI (too much contract information) .

[Parabolica]

I don't want to consider what Clause 7.8 could be.

[555-04Q2]

SGWilko, Bagwan, Parabolica ....... :laugh: :up:

[SGWilko]

I don't want to consider what Clause 7.8 could be.
Slot gaps in the rear crash structure??? :p

[Parabolica]

Maybe Luca has his own F-Duct, and only Kimi can activate it?

[555-04Q2]

Maybe Luca has his own F-Duct, and only Kimi can activate it?

:rotflmao:

[Koz]

"I know both Fernando and Kimi on and off the track and I rate them as excellent drivers, but I'm afraid they will collide when sharing the team," said Massa in an interview with Brazilian F1 broadcaster Galvao Bueno on TV Globo.

Massa, why didn't you collied?

[Tazio]

"I know both Fernando and Kimi on and off the track and I rate them as excellent drivers, but I'm afraid they will collide when sharing the team," said Massa in an interview with Brazilian F1 broadcaster Galvao Bueno on TV Globo.

Massa, why didn't you collied?
This has turned into a tabloid orgy........I love it!! :laugh:

[donKey jote]

Maybe Luca has his own F-Duct, and only Kimi can activate it?

:laugh: :up:

[jens]

Surely something unexpected.

It was surprising from Kimi's point of view, but it shows he is above in-team politics and relations and even if things go badly, he doesn't keep any bad feelings and is ready to have a go again. And additionally he has perhaps learnt something from last time, has matured and is ready to 'communicate' more, since last time it seemed like a cultural issue, which is why he didn't fit in the team.

It has been something to think about for di Montezemolo in particular as well, but it looks like he and Domenicali as professionals have left personal feelings behind and act pragmatically - they need a better driver in the seat of Massa and Räikkönen was on the market. So they are prepared to make their amendments to their mindset as well in their new relationship with Kimi.

Interesting times ahead.

[Mia 01]

Kimi will not be Ferraris salvation if not the car is up to it. But, he will be better than Alonso for the team as it evident in long and short term.

[Tazio]

Kimi will not be Ferraris salvation if not the car is up to it. But, he will be better than Alonso for the team as it evident in long and short term.

Rogro punked Kimi!

Rogro punked Kimi! :wave:


Rogro punked Kimi!

Best wishes,http://i.imgur.com/Ra9jlr5.jpg

[dj_bytedisaster]

Rogro punked Kimi!


hardly an achievement against a team mate with a pinched nerve in the back. It was a minor miracle that Raikkönen could drive at all.

[Tazio]

Just messin' with ya''awl boys

Just messin' with ya''awl boys

Just messin' with ya''awl boys :wave:

[Tazio]

Wow, at last it´s official. I´m so glad and even if it is a tall order tó beat fred I know kimi will do it.

And, I´m sure this was LDM's revenge on fred.
He really showed Fred who the boss is! ;)
Zemo will be very glad that Fred has a multi year contract, because without him they are completely lost.
Still hoping Kimi turns it around, because this is getting embarrassing for Kimi and the team.

[Tazio]

Kimi will not be Ferraris salvation if not the car is up to it. But, he will be better than Alonso for the team as it evident in long and short term. How so? :confused:

[Tazio]

Seems like the Alonso fans are already a bit shaken. We know he doesn't have 6/10ths, but the question is will he have any over Kimi?More like 7 or 8/10ths in the early going dawg! :mark: ;)

[Tazio]

You're underestimating Kimi here, I mean all the past evidence suggests that Kimi is one of the best drivers out there, so he'll certainly trouble Alonso, more than any other teammate in the past bar Lewis.

Lewis is the only teammate that was as talented as Fred in F1 in his entire career. Now that kimi is proving to be useless as a eunuch (just kidding :p:) it puts Felipe Baggie in a slightly better light. As Felipe always contended, he was over his injury but no match for Fred in equal machinery. It appears so far that at this point in his career either is Kimi. Sorry dawgs Fred is just that good. Kimi will come around and beat Fred in the odd race maybe, but he is not as dynamic of a racer.

[N4D13]

Lewis is the only teammate that was as talented as Fred in F1 in his entire career. Now that kimi is proving to be useless as a eunuch (just kidding :p:) it puts Felipe Baggie in a slightly better light. As Felipe always contended, he was over his injury but no match for Fred in equal machinery. It appears so far that at this point in his career either is Kimi. Sorry dawgs Fred is just that good. Kimi will come around and beat Fred in the odd race maybe, but he is not as dynamic of a racer.
I think you're missing a point here, though. Alonso is someone who can manage to drive a dog and still put in some good results, which is a talent he doesn't have with many drivers. Kimi, however, has been complaining about his difficulties to drive the Ferrari, which must have had an effect on his (very significant) gap to Alonso. Had the car been handling better (and more to Kimi's liking), it certainly wouldn't be such a one-sided contest.

[steveaki13]

More like 7 or 8/10ths in the early going dawg! :mark: ;)

:D Well its true. Its not 6 tenths is it.

Despite what anyone says and whether people like him. Fact is fact.

Fred is awesome.

[Mia 01]

There some from the team and some from Kimi to sort out but, Kimi will be back.

[airshifter]

More like 7 or 8/10ths in the early going dawg! :mark: ;)

Only in the last race. There was certainly no 6/10ths at the season opener or at Bahrain. There was only a couple tenths after all those laps, and that was after the almost punt at the first corner. But without a doubt Fred is beating him fair and square. Except for a briefly non functional DRS at the season opener, Kimi has had the same car.

As for Lewis I agree he is one of the only that can match Fred in an outright dogfight. But then again if we go by a single season, Lewis punked Fred. No tenths came in second! :)


And Fred is trying hard, but I do have one serious question regarding the team. Who was the last driver to win a WDC in a Ferrari? :laugh:


All in fun Tazsrubrochangesnamesalot. Fred is driving his tail off, and if Kimi doesn't up the game it will make him look bad. I guess the ones that will really suffer are the team, since they hired him back. I remember when most thought Kimi would never return to F1, then most thought he had no chance at going back to Ferrari.

[Tazio]

:stareup: yes air' I am having a little fun resurrecting this thread, but the reason I come on this forum is to have fun, and not take it too seriously. ;)
Kimi is very fast, last night I re-watched the 2005 San Marino GP and he was shot out of a cannon in that race only to have his McLaren go kaput early on, which is only one example of his talent. I do think the main difference between him and Zo at this point in their careers is that Fred is more adaptable ,and Kimi is devastating when the car really suits him. I do hope he ups his game because I don't pull against him. I just like to keep things in perspective :dog:

[Tazio]

I think you're missing a point here, though. Alonso is someone who can manage to drive a dog and still put in some good results, which is a talent he doesn't have with many drivers. Kimi, however, has been complaining about his difficulties to drive the Ferrari, which must have had an effect on his (very significant) gap to Alonso. Had the car been handling better (and more to Kimi's liking), it certainly wouldn't be such a one-sided contest.That point was not lost on me, as i was trying to point out that Fred is a more complete driver with slightly less limitations than the kimster.
On a separate note, I don't think my pm's are working, as I haven't been able to send messages for a while. To answer the question of your message; Mark will take care of that change if you message him!!

[anfield5]

Kimi's lack of performance is exactly what I expected from him. He moans and sulks and complains non-stop, what he needs to do is stop whinging about everything and get his head down and work things out. You can almost guarantee that in practice in Spain there will be one Ferrari up on jacks with either the front end, back end, or both off the car because 'something' is not right, and you can almost guarantee it will be the car with a small number 7 on it.

If only Ferrari could turn the clock back six months and sign Hulkenberg instead.

[henners88]

Kimi's agent has confirmed Raikkonen is to become a father after months of speculation. I wonder if this means Kimi will be leaving F1 after 2015 or perhaps before? He always said he would have children after his F1 career because he wouldn't want to be away from them. Good luck to him, its more rewarding than any race win ;)

[Storm]

henners yeah lets keep telling ourselves that :p:

[henners88]

henners yeah lets keep telling ourselves that :p:
Well once they are past 5 years old then :p

[donKey jote]

Just wait til they're teenagers :dozey: :laugh:

[Storm]

:s

[Tazio]

I'm sure Kimi is looking forward to the day he can enjoy an ice crème cone with the wee tike, :angel:

[Mia 01]

Finally, it´s confirmed, Kimi will race for Ferrari 2017- . I´m very happy!!

[zako85]

Finally, it´s confirmed, Kimi will race for Ferrari 2017- . I´m very happy!!

Seems like a very reasonable decision from Ferrari.

[Big Ben]

This is Kimi's biggest achievement in a long time.

[yodasarmpit]

Finally, it´s confirmed, Kimi will race for Ferrari 2017- . I´m very happy!!

Ouch, very surprised by this decision.

[Nitrodaze]

Great to hear Kimi has been signed for 2017. The media have literally walked their way through the grid naming all possible Kimi replacement. That must have been a bit disconcerting for him [not that you would know it looking at his poker face].

Now there are talks of Hamilton going to Ferrari in 2018. :-) possible

[odykas]

Great management decisions
NOT :mad:

[Tazio]

If Ferrari have a superior rig in 2017, or on par with the best This is a logical decision for Ferrari as Kimi can be to Vettel what Felipe, Rubens or Eddie were for Mike. Vettel don't want no Max commin' up their and be maybe kicking off in his a$$ like Danny did. If they have the car in 2017 Seb can win the WDC, and Kimi can collect enough for the WCC. If they are not that good at least their will be peace between Kimi, and Seb, just like when Fred punked him in 2014. It was all pretty chill :dozey:

[zako85]

If you think about how to fill Kimi's current seat, Ferrari probably wants a driver who is at least as great as Kimi, but who is not a regular challenge to Vettel. This is pretty obvious as Ferrari has been normally operating this 1-2 scheme since at least the 1990s, if not earlier. Many would probably observe that there exist other drivers besides Kimi that will fit the bill. However, Ferrari is a major brand that also wants a major brand name driver even in its second seat. Kimi basically is a brand on its own, a driver with a WDC title and a big fan base following him. That's exactly what Ferrari needs.

[N4D13]

On top of that, who would have you chosen to replace Kimi? As much as I think he's well past his prime, it's not like Grosjean, Sainz, Pérez or Bottas look like they're WDCs in the making (although I think Sainz is rather underrated). There's no guarantee that any of those would do any better.

[Jag_Warrior]

If Ferrari have a superior rig in 2017, or on par with the best This is a logical decision for Ferrari as Kimi can be to Vettel what Felipe, Rubens or Eddie were for Mike. Vettel don't want no Max commin' up their and be maybe kicking off in his a$$ like Danny did. If they have the car in 2017 Seb can win the WDC, and Kimi can collect enough for the WCC. If they are not that good at least their will be peace between Kimi, and Seb, just like when Fred punked him in 2014. It was all pretty chill :dozey:

Kimi seems cool with whatever, doesn't he? I mean, he's got a hot girlfriend, he's racing for Ferrari and as long as he does just enough, he can continue building up his 401k and the kid's college fund for another year.

[steveaki13]

I dont think we can dig at Kimi. Think he has been very good this season. Been matching Seb more this season than last.

[Mia 01]

On and of track, for me Kimi is the best.

[zako85]

On top of that, who would have you chosen to replace Kimi? As much as I think he's well past his prime, it's not like Grosjean, Sainz, Pérez or Bottas look like they're WDCs in the making (although I think Sainz is rather underrated). There's no guarantee that any of those would do any better.


Who is underrating Sainz? Even though Red Bull had to abruptly move Verstappen into its top team, I am betting that Sainz still will beat Kvyat in the rest of season and will go on to race in F1 the following season.

[truefan72]

Who is underrating Sainz? Even though Red Bull had to abruptly move Verstappen into its top team, I am betting that Sainz still will beat Kvyat in the rest of season and will go on to race in F1 the following season.

I think if you drop sainz into the ferrari he would be winning races in no time. He seems very well polished and capable. both he and verstappen (and probably van doorn & wherlein) will be the next generation of top drivers

[N4D13]

Who is underrating Sainz? Even though Red Bull had to abruptly move Verstappen into its top team, I am betting that Sainz still will beat Kvyat in the rest of season and will go on to race in F1 the following season.
My impression is that people overlook his achievements because he was paired with Max. If you look at their results, they were pretty evenly matched, but people kept talking about Verstappen most of the time. He might not reach Heidfeld levels of underrating, but my impression is that sometimes we don't notice that he's roughly as good as Max.

[airshifter]

I think it was a smart move by Ferrari. Many of the young guns are still proving themselves, and Kimi is known to keep cool and stay in the points most of the time when the car is capable. Fred whooped him, but the car seemed suited to Fred, Seb beat him soundly last year but Kimi seems to be coming around again. But in the grand scheme of things, being beaten by Alonso or Seb doesn't make anyone slow either.

I'm sure that the fact that he is the last driver to earn a WDC in the Ferrari might have had some influence as well.

[Morte66]

On top of that, who would have you chosen to replace Kimi? As much as I think he's well past his prime, it's not like Grosjean, Sainz, Pérez or Bottas look like they're WDCs in the making (although I think Sainz is rather underrated). There's no guarantee that any of those would do any better.

I agree. Even if Ferrari think one of those is better, they probably don't think they're a lot better, and they're under contract, and meanwhile Raikonnen is the "bird in the hand worth two in the bush". I think Ferrari will continue to keep their eyes open, and maybe take Sainz/Pérez to dinner a couple of times.

Now if Redbull hadn't locked in Max V, they'd have been all over that.

[AndyL]

According to the championship standings, Kimi is the 3rd best guy on the grid so I guess Ferrari made an OK choice :)

[Nitrodaze]

On top of that, who would have you chosen to replace Kimi? As much as I think he's well past his prime, it's not like Grosjean, Sainz, Pérez or Bottas look like they're WDCs in the making (although I think Sainz is rather underrated). There's no guarantee that any of those would do any better.

I think Sainz has more potential of everyone on that list, to grow into a WDC contender within 2 seasons. A Sainz signing would have been very popular. Given the chance, l think he would have been very motivated to match Verstapenn's performances in the Redbull to prove his worth. He definitely would have matched or better Kimi's current performance.

I also think that a signing of Grojean, Peres or Bottas would have kick started the next phase of their individual development. I think they would have approached their signing as a once in a lifetime opportunity. The corresponding motivation factor of the opportunity would have produced performances equivalent of higher than Kimi's current perfomance.

I can see Ferrari wanting some level of stability in the team while they attempt to get on top of their lack of competitiveness relative to the Mercedes. Otherwise, kimi was more or less one foot out of the door.

Kimi is unlikely to win a WDC if Vettel is on his game. He has not been able to challenge Vettel properly. Any of these hungry guys listed would definitely give Vettel some proper competition. That said, rookies can be very expensive as the crash more easily than more experienced drivers. Perez is the only one on the list shining at the moment. Bottas has been very ordinary in recent races and mostly this year. But that is mostly to do with the poor Williams car than personal ability. Grojean had a brilliant start to the season but has been quite ordinary since.

The real question for Ferrari was, can any of these guys beat Vettel in a straight fight? Or at least be good enough to match him to produce regular one two [or consecutive] finishes. At this point in time, the answer would probably be no. Even Kimi is struggling to do that. He has only looked respectable because Vettel is having car problems like Hamilton.
I can see how Ferrari would want to wait as least one more year to make this decision. Just to give them a little more time to have a look at the prospective candidates before making that decision. This could also mean that Ferrari have their eyes on Hamilton for the 2018 season, when they expect to have the car to dominate the grid.

[Mia 01]

The top management in Ferrari Thinks only Hamilton is better than Kimi (I don´t agree). Hamilton is only free at the end of 2018.

With the new regulation, next year it could be Kimis year.

[driveace]

But your not a Hamilton fan Mia !
So sure you don't agree!
SO do you think if both were in Ferrari,s Rosberg could wipe the floor with Kimi ?
Or shall I answer for you ?

[Mia 01]

If you lot got the answer, please be so kind.

[driveace]

Kimi would be top !
He is better than Rosberg
You say Kiitos ?

[jens]

In my book Pérez would have been a good signing by Ferrari. He has driven pretty well the last couple of years and beaten the highly regarded Hülkenberg.

Räikkönen has driven better this year than he did in 2014 or 2015, but he turns 37 years old this year and frankly Ferrari would be wise to look to the future. Nowadays Kimi gives a vibe of being another Coulthard, Barrichello, Webber, etc guys. Just hangs onto a top seat as a solid #2.

[Nitrodaze]

In my book Pérez would have been a good signing by Ferrari. He has driven pretty well the last couple of years and beaten the highly regarded Hülkenberg.

Räikkönen has driven better this year than he did in 2014 or 2015, but he turns 37 years old this year and frankly Ferrari would be wise to look to the future. Nowadays Kimi gives a vibe of being another Coulthard, Barrichello, Webber, etc guys. Just hangs onto a top seat as a solid #2.

I agree Jens, Peres is the safer bet out of the available drivers; which include Rosberg by the way. Sainz in a better long term gamble, but Ferrari do not have a history of developing drivers from a number 2 positon into a number 1 driver position. Traditionally, Ferrari only invest in sure things. That is a driver with well established credentials to perform at the level that they want.

The way Rosberg's 2016 year has gone so far, l don't think Ferrari would be interested in him. As far as Hamilton goes, he fits the bill of what Ferrari would be very interested in. You can see why, can't you; one is to remove him as a competitor. The other is to use his skill to make life difficult for drivers in other cars. Apart from having 2 multiple world champions in the stable, Ferrari would be [certainly] guaranteed to dominate the grid for a number of years with a Vettel/Hamilton lineup; if they can get on top on their current performance deficits.

I think it would be a very troublesome lineup having two of the finest and most successful F1 drivers in this era in the same team. Arrivabene would lose all his hair in the first season alone. But it would make for a truely exciting spectacle for the fans and it would be great for F1. Bernie would definitely love it.

[Tazio]

With the new regulation, next year it could be Kimis year.
Mia, I think the 2017 regulations fit Kimi well also; with a larger contact patch, more down force, and especially power. I could see Kimi enhanced next year, but also Seb, Fred, and The Boss; as well as some young guys like Sainz, Max add infinite. Good on Kimi I think this formula is "his trajectory" friendly!

[The Black Knight]

The top management in Ferrari Thinks only Hamilton is better than Kimi (I don´t agree). Hamilton is only free at the end of 2018.

With the new regulation, next year it could be Kimis year.

I don't agree either with Ferrari management either. Most of the drivers on the grid are better than Kimi, including Hamilton.

Keep dreaming about it being Kimi's year but, remember, it's only a dream.

[Mia 01]

It was kind of you to remind me.

[Mia 01]

Again, once Moore I´m lifting this thread (I hope I will do this for many years to come). A very happy day for me and Kimis other fans!!!

2018, yes yes yes!!

[The Black Knight]

Once again Ferrari retain their slow number two driver. No surprise!

[Zico]

Once again Ferrari retain their slow number two driver. No surprise!


A bit harsh that BK. The Ferrari just doesn't suit his driving style that's all. Everyone knows the iceman would be leading the WDC by a huge margin right now if he was in a Merc.. pffff... Lewis wouldn't even get a sniff! :p

[COD]

Once again Ferrari retain their slow number two driver. No surprise!

I wouldn't call a diver who can get on pole in Monaco a slow driver. And he has had some good performances besides that. Ok not delivered as well as Vettel, but slow...

[Koz]

Good for Kimi. Feel sad for Grosjean though. Doubt he'll ever get a real shot at a top team now.

[AndyL]

On Saturday Kimi showed at least part of the reason why Ferrari re-signed him... after making an error on his own qualifying lap, he had the presence of mind to slow down and give Vettel a tow into P2.

[journeyman racer]

Raikkonen reminds me of watching Alan Jones race Touring cars, when I was a kid. I couldn't quite get how this guy was an F1 champ?

Then I was told by older Australian motorsport fans that AJ didn't really care and racing gave him something to do.


I wouldn't call a diver who can get on pole in Monaco a slow driver. And he has had some good performances besides that. Ok not delivered as well as Vettel, but slow...

Schumacher was fastest qualifier in 12. He was mediocre at MB. So maybe pole at Monaco is no big deal?

[The Black Knight]

Raikkonen reminds me of watching Alan Jones race Touring cars, when I was a kid. I couldn't quite get how this guy was an F1 champ?

Then I was told by older Australian motorsport fans that AJ didn't really care and racing gave him something to do.



Schumacher was fastest qualifier in 12. He was mediocre at MB. So maybe pole at Monaco is no big deal?

Sure it does and he did a great job in Monaco qualifying but it's no use doing that once a year, or in his case, once a decade. With the car he has had over the last couple of years he should have at least won 2-3 grand prix. There is no hiding the fact that he is very much mediocre and, probably one of the most inconsistent and slowest in the field right now.

[zako85]

With the car he has had over the last couple of years he should have at least one 2-3 grand prix.


Strangely, he did much better in a Lotus in 2012-13. His performance in 2012 was specially impressive considering the guy took a vacation leave from F1 for what, like two years? He comes back in 2012 in a midfield car and races as if he hasn't missed a race, much less a whole season, two seasons, takes podiums seven times, and wins a race. That was really impressive. Lotus went bankrupt trying to pay him, because Kimi's pay was tied to performance. Nobody expected then that he could do so well, so if I recall Lotus ended owing him something like 16-18 million USD just for that season (more than what Vettel was being paid at that time).

[journeyman racer]

Strangely, he did much better in a Lotus in 2012-13. time).
I don't consider it strange. Results aren't always a result of straight out talent. How a driver mixes within a team and their status within it contributes.

With Raikkonen. He'd have a much bigger presence within lotus, therefore his qualities would make a bigger contribution to the results. At Ferrari, he's a smaller piece of the puzzle. Therefore his abilities contribute less to this results.

There heaps of examples where drivers are affected differently moving to different teams, or a change of teammate, or other piece of the puzzle.

[The Black Knight]

I don't consider it strange. Results aren't always a result of straight out talent. How a driver mixes within a team and their status within it contributes.

With Raikkonen. He'd have a much bigger presence within lotus, therefore his qualities would make a bigger contribution to the results. At Ferrari, he's a smaller piece of the puzzle. Therefore his abilities contribute less to this results.

There heaps of examples where drivers are affected differently moving to different teams, or a change of teammate, or other piece of the puzzle.

To a certain extent there is some foundation for what you post but on the other hand, the best drivers will overcome whatever piece of the puzzle they are and rise to the top. Raikkonen is clearly unable to do this. He's simply not up to the task. You can make excuses for a while, maybe even a year or so but he's clearly the slower of the two Ferrari drivers by a country mile.

[Starter]

To a certain extent there is some foundation for what you post but on the other hand, the best drivers will overcome whatever piece of the puzzle they are and rise to the top. Raikkonen is clearly unable to do this. He's simply not up to the task. You can make excuses for a while, maybe even a year or so but he's clearly the slower of the two Ferrari drivers by a country mile.
OK, so who is both faster AND available to take the seat?

[The Black Knight]

OK, so who is both faster AND available to take the seat?

Well, until recently Fernando Alonso was available. Looks like he will now stay at McLaren. Take your pick of whom would be better - Sainz definitely wouldn't be any worse, Paul Di Resta would certainly be better were he allowed a come back, his stock has always been very high and it's still tragic imo the the doesn't have a top level racing seat.

[AndyL]

Well, until recently Fernando Alonso was available. Looks like he will now stay at McLaren.

There's a rumour that Vettel's contract would've blocked Alonso. Clearly Ferrari's recruitment policy is not based on selecting the driver who will upset Vettel the most. The exact opposite in fact.

[Starter]

Well, until recently Fernando Alonso was available. Looks like he will now stay at McLaren. Take your pick of whom would be better - Sainz definitely wouldn't be any worse, Paul Di Resta would certainly be better were he allowed a come back, his stock has always been very high and it's still tragic imo the the doesn't have a top level racing seat.
Alonso was not going to be available until the engine question was resolved one way or the other. And, while I respect your opinion on Di Resta, it would seem that the decision makers don't. Who else have you got?

[Firstgear]

Kimi's doing ok. Ferrari's whining about his performance was just part of contract negotiations. But even so, I say bring Kobayashi on board.

[The Black Knight]

There's a rumour that Vettel's contract would've blocked Alonso. Clearly Ferrari's recruitment policy is not based on selecting the driver who will upset Vettel the most. The exact opposite in fact.

Of course, because Vettel wants a slower drive in 2nd spot. He knows that he is weak when provided with equal machinery to someone else and he is afraid of being challenged within his own team.


Alonso was not going to be available until the engine question was resolved one way or the other. And, while I respect your opinion on Di Resta, it would seem that the decision makers don't. Who else have you got?

There was no reason for Ferrari to not wait until contract negotiations with McLaren were complete before announcing Kimi. Kimi has made it clear that he doesn't want to go anywhere else so there was no rush. You can explain every option I give up with the decision makers not agreeing. I say Di Resta and Alonso and am sticking by it. Though to add, even Kubica would probably be better or Sainz. To be fair, I think most other drivers on the grid would do a better job than Kimi.

[Starter]

There was no reason for Ferrari to not wait until contract negotiations with McLaren were complete before announcing Kimi. Kimi has made it clear that he doesn't want to go anywhere else so there was no rush. You can explain every option I give up with the decision makers not agreeing. I say Di Resta and Alonso and am sticking by it. Though to add, even Kubica would probably be better or Sainz. To be fair, I think most other drivers on the grid would do a better job than Kimi.
I'd say that several other drivers on the grid have the potential to be better than Kim, but are not there yet.

[gm99]

Paul Di Resta would certainly be better were he allowed a come back, his stock has always been very high and it's still tragic imo the the doesn't have a top level racing seat.

Interesting that on another thread, you say that you don't rate Hülkenburg very highly, mainly because he has never had a podium finish. Yet, Di Resta has never had a podium finish, either, and was clearly beaten by Hulk when they were team mates at Force India in 2012.

[Bagwan]

Kimi is still fast , and doesn't cause a lot of friction within the team .

It's got to be hard to decide who to get next , but Kimi is an easy choice right now , specifically because of those two things .

[Tazio]

I think Kimi is a pretty cool shark. He has a fast car that is relatively easy to set up at all venues. He is still notably slower than his teammate, by more than his #2 status would warrant. Kimi is doing an ok job but he should be closer to his teammate. Maybe Vettel deserves more credit. However I personally don't see him as being superior to Fred, Danny boy, or even Max. Kimi is IMO a poor mans (or old mans) Valtteri Bottas.

[The Black Knight]

Interesting that on another thread, you say that you don't rate Hülkenburg very highly, mainly because he has never had a podium finish. Yet, Di Resta has never had a podium finish, either, and was clearly beaten by Hulk when they were team mates at Force India in 2012.

Yup, fair point but overall they were evenly matched throughout the campaign, although Hulkenberg had a stronger second half finish to the season. Paul showed his stock this year in Hungary and he now has the hunger that Kimi has been lacking for over 10 years now. If Grosjean is worth a second chance at F1 then so is Di Resta. And lets not forget, Di Resta beat Vettel in equal machinery in F3 euroseries so he is a top driver. I think he could beat Vettel again if they were in the same car. Likelihood is that Vettel wouldn't want someone that beat him already in the team though.

[Bagwan]

Whilst not many here would agree with Ferrari's often used tactic of having a #1 and #2 driver , we have to remember that they use it .
The car is designed , very clearly , for Mr. Vettel , and his strategy is favoured .

Kimi understands all this . That's important .
We've seen how twisted a Vettel team-mate can be , haven't we ?

[AndyL]

Yup, fair point but overall they were evenly matched throughout the campaign, although Hulkenberg had a stronger second half finish to the season. Paul showed his stock this year in Hungary and he now has the hunger that Kimi has been lacking for over 10 years now. If Grosjean is worth a second chance at F1 then so is Di Resta. And lets not forget, Di Resta beat Vettel in equal machinery in F3 euroseries so he is a top driver. I think he could beat Vettel again if they were in the same car. Likelihood is that Vettel wouldn't want someone that beat him already in the team though.

Hulkenberg, too, performed exceptionally in lower formulae, and has showed some moments of brilliance earlier in his career. I'd say it's hard to make a case for Di Resta being a superior talent.

After spending too many years in uncompetitive cars - or an uncompetitive team situation - sometimes drivers seem to lose the cutting edge they once had. I think you can say that about more than one driver that's been mentioned here. The chief argument that can be made in favour of Di Resta is that having apparently missed his chance in F1, he would be exceptionally highly motivated should he get another one.

[Starter]

After spending too many years in uncompetitive cars - or an uncompetitive team situation - sometimes drivers seem to lose the cutting edge they once had. I think you can say that about more than one driver that's been mentioned here. The chief argument that can be made in favour of Di Resta is that having apparently missed his chance in F1, he would be exceptionally highly motivated should he get another one.
That's a good point. The question is though would you, if you were a team manager, be wiling to take the chance ?

[AndyL]

That's a good point. The question is though would you, if you were a team manager, be wiling to take the chance ?

Probably not. If you're going to take a bit of a punt like that, then why not on a much younger driver, say one of the hot-shots from F2 like Charles "it is I" Leclerc.

[journeyman racer]

To a certain extent there is some foundation for what you post but on the other hand, the best drivers will overcome whatever piece of the puzzle they are and rise to the top. Raikkonen is clearly unable to do this. He's simply not up to the task. You can make excuses for a while, maybe even a year or so but he's clearly the slower of the two Ferrari drivers by a country mile.

The whole history of motorsport backs up my statement. In fact, I made that statement because the history of motorsport is like that.

[journeyman racer]

Idk about di resta. I could take him or leave him.


Hulkenberg, too, performed exceptionally in lower formulae, and has showed some moments of brilliance earlier in his career. I'd say it's hard to make a case for Di Resta being a superior talent.

After spending too many years in uncompetitive cars - or an uncompetitive team situation - sometimes drivers seem to lose the cutting edge they once had. I think you can say that about more than one driver that's been mentioned here. The chief argument that can be made in favour of Di Resta is that having apparently missed his chance in F1, he would be exceptionally highly motivated should he get another one.
It was a disadvantage Rosberg had to Hamilton when MB got their title winning car in 14.