Driver of the Race - Spa

[steveaki13]

Its quite simple I am sure. Same old names.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Alonso
Vettel
Riciardo

[RedBullian1]

Vettel not even a question

[steveaki13]

Drivers of the Race: Tie for me. Vettel & Alonso.

Seb - Great car but drove brilliantly.
Fernando - From 9th to 2nd again. Wonderful.

Other Mentions:
Button - Decent job to be in and around the podium.
Ricciardo - Solid Job.

[gm99]

Vettel for a dominating win that never looked threatened.
Alonso did well to finish second from his lowly grid position.
Ricciardio deserves a mention as well for getting into the points today also from far down the grid.

[longisland]

Kimi hands down. Lost count of cars he passed after the right front wheel was on fire.

[Tazio]

Lost count of cars he passed Bro, he was stuck behind Massa with 3 laps fresher tires from lap 21-26 and never did get past him, that's like over 20 miles :confused:
I'll give it to Seb, and Zo, with honorable mention to Felipe Baby and Ricciardo.

[steveaki13]

Bro, he was stuck behind Massa with 3 laps fresher tires from lap 21-26 and never did get past him, that's like over 20 miles :confused:
I'll give it to Seb, and Zo, with honorable mention to Felipe Baby and Ricciardo.

Felipe was rubbish. He was miles behind Freddy. :dozey: ;)

[Tazio]

Considering he was down to p12 (partly due to being stalled and slight contact by/with Kimi out of the first turn) on lap #1, I think he ended up having a pretty good country race personally. Nowhere near as good as Zo however ;)

[pino]

Once again, Alonso of course :p :

[Garry Walker]

Red Bull car.
Out of drivers - Alonso

[ioan]

Red Bull car.


Some help for you:

http://www.preparationh.com/sites/default/files/Preparation_H_Ointment_Main.png

[driveace]

In the RB number 1preferred driver car even Chilton would have been in the top 5 !That car is by a country mile the fastest car out there.
For dragging a car round and getting 2nd driver of the day has to be Alonso !

[dj_bytedisaster]

In the RB number 1preferred driver car even Chilton would have been in the top 5 !That car is by a country mile the fastest car out there.
For dragging a car round and getting 2nd driver of the day has to be Alonso !

Since Webber couldn't park that hugely superior car anything higher than 5th, I suppose you rate him the same as Chilton then? :D

[DexDexter]

Bro, he was stuck behind Massa with 3 laps fresher tires from lap 21-26 and never did get past him, that's like over 20 miles :confused:
I'll give it to Seb, and Zo, with honorable mention to Felipe Baby and Ricciardo.

That shows how slow Lotus is on the straight. On one of those laps, Kimi exited the first corner well under half a second behind Massa and couldn't get pass after Eau Rouge with DRS on.

Anyway, Seb was the driver of the race followed by Alonso. Currently Seb/Red Bull combination just makes for boring racing. Go to Ferrari Seb!

[anfield5]

Alonso, had to do some work to get from 9th to 2nd.

Vettel was faultless, but after getting to the front just had to not fall off the track.

Mention to vdGarde, excellent qualifying with a huge gamble thrown in and drove as well as can be expected.

[truefan72]

there is only one DotR
and that is Alonso

Vettel did nothing but drive a dominant car unchallenged, toying with the fastest laps and doing first sector lap times comparable to drs enabled speeds by others
that is why he breezed by hamilton at the start
that RBR is also a terrific car with a full load of fuel
something that Mercedes fail to take into account when designing their cars ( probably a blunder on their part, not realizing that in race trim the car spends more time than not with a heavier fuel load)
but I digress

honorable mention to button who put in some respectable times with the Mclaren throughout the race

Hamilton and rosberg where exactly where they ought to be in this race, although a slight nod to Rosberg for keeping webber behind. Webber clearly has lost a step and had his typical useless start, but once again ( no surprise...) had kers issues. That RBR team is really just running 1.5 cars IMO

[dj_bytedisaster]

there is only one DotR
and that is Alonso

Vettel did nothing but drive a dominant car unchallenged, toying with the fastest laps and doing first sector lap times comparable to drs enabled speeds by others
that is why he breezed by hamilton at the start


I agree with you on Alonso, he was the best out there today, but I disagree on the Vettel bashing. I'm seriously getting sick of the whole 'the car won, not Vettel'-shtik. Look at Webber and you'll see that a good car doesn't mean automatic win. And don't give me the 'Kers problems' malarkey. RB as a whole has never gotten it to work. Vettel had Kers failures just as often in the past. Fact is that even if the RB is the best car at the moment, it still takes a darn good driver to put it on P1 and as we see, Webber aint it. You don't have to like Vettel, but saying that it is all down to the car is just wrong, as Mark is so fond of demonstrating every other weekend.

[truefan72]

I agree with you on Alonso, he was the best out there today, but I disagree on the Vettel bashing. I'm seriously getting sick of the whole 'the car won, not Vettel'-shtik. Look at Webber and you'll see that a good car doesn't mean automatic win. And don't give me the 'Kers problems' malarkey. RB as a whole has never gotten it to work. Vettel had Kers failures just as often in the past. Fact is that even if the RB is the best car at the moment, it still takes a darn good driver to put it on P1 and as we see, Webber aint it. You don't have to like Vettel, but saying that it is all down to the car is just wrong, as Mark is so fond of demonstrating every other weekend.

I knew you would defend Vettel come what may and it was not bashing. only you see it as bashing as you are in clear denial that the rBR was super dominant.
Is it now bashing to point that out?
was it not in a league of its own?

and please don't bring "poor start- kers issues" webber as some sort of yardstick to prove that the car is not dominant.
Webber is never good starting off the line. He qualified the car 3rd FFS and then lost a bunch of places with a poor start and compromised his own race
running behind the dirty air did not help him, typically not being a great traffic driver did not help him, having phantom kers issues did not help him. Having an opposite tire strategy with the slower hards at the start did not help him. Having to run the mediums for an extended time in his final stint, certainly did not help him.

Vettel was on the optimum tire strategy, as were Alonso Hamilton and Rosberg. All finished ahead of Webber

let me ask you this?
do you honestly believe that if Alonso, Hamilton, Kimi, and I dare say...hulkenberg, where in that other RBR, Vettel would shine?
You need to relax and know the difference between bashing Vettel and pointing out the obvious.
Never said he was a poor driver. But driving that RBR on most tracks for vettel is made infinitely easier by its sheer dominance over the competition.
and in the one race where you could have had an argument to make for Webber being on par and thus a yardstick. your guy Vettel decided to ignore team orders, turn up his engine as Webber was told to turn his down and blatantly stole a victory that was the epitome of poor sportsmanship...ok that was bashing...but deserved, don't you think?

you have been very good of recent in dialing down the "everybody hates vettel" stance but chose possibly the worst race in the year to relapse into that argument
;)

[dj_bytedisaster]

let me ask you this?
do you honestly believe that if Alonso, Hamilton, Kimi, and I dare say...hulkenberg, where in that other RBR, Vettel would shine?

You operate on the assumption that Vettel is 'just another driver', who merely wins because of having a good car, which I dare say is wrong. Yes, I think he could shine, even with another top driver in the second car and that is for a very distinct reason. Newey's latest cars were extremely difficult to drive, especially the 2011 one, because it required counter-intuitive driving (pushing the throttle, when instinct says to brake) to make the trick diffusor work. Mark failed at it spectacularly, while Vettel made it work. I wouldn't put him up in the same category as Senna or Schumacher (yet) before having seen him in a different top-running team, but he has numbers on his side. He was never out-scored by any team mate at Toro Rosso or RB, in fact he has scored the majority of TR's points even with Vergnes and Riciardos points haul of this year. He's still the only one having finished any better than 6th in a TR. Saying he's just a mediocre slow-poke is wrong.

[Robinho]

No doubt Vettel was in a class of 1 today, he had one thing to do and that was beat Hamilton to the top of the hill, and then it was his to control, which he did spectacularly. Alonso was deeply impressive.

[Ranger]

He's still the only one having finished any better than 6th in a TR.

The rest of your post had decent arguments, but this is not one of them.

Those two Toro Rosso cars were far better than anything they have produced since.

[dj_bytedisaster]

The rest of your post had decent arguments, but this is not one of them.

Those two Toro Rosso cars were far better than anything they have produced since.

Still, he did it, his team mates in the same cars didn't and one of them was a multiple Champcars champion. The only team mate ever to score a 6th was Liuzzi in 2007. Vettel collected 4th amd 5th place finishes and a win. His team mates didn't do 'nuff anything. That in itself shows that he isn't your garden variety chauffeur.

[N. Jones]

Is it even worth mentioning this? That Red Bull and Vettel are top class right. If this keeps up they may win seven titles in a row!

[truefan72]

You operate on the assumption that Vettel is 'just another driver', who merely wins because of having a good car, which I dare say is wrong. Yes, I think he could shine, even with another top driver in the second car and that is for a very distinct reason. Newey's latest cars were extremely difficult to drive, especially the 2011 one, because it required counter-intuitive driving (pushing the throttle, when instinct says to brake) to make the trick diffusor work. Mark failed at it spectacularly, while Vettel made it work. I wouldn't put him up in the same category as Senna or Schumacher (yet) before having seen him in a different top-running team, but he has numbers on his side. He was never out-scored by any team mate at Toro Rosso or RB, in fact he has scored the majority of TR's points even with Vergnes and Riciardos points haul of this year. He's still the only one having finished any better than 6th in a TR. Saying he's just a mediocre slow-poke is wrong.

nobody is saying that vettel is average
certainly not me
but the dominance of the car cannot be dismissed and using Webber as a yardstick especially in a more than often compromised 2nd car isn't worth the discussion either.
Basically Vettel has had the best car for 3+ years running and good as he may be, has not had to drive his wits off to get good results or wins.
All one has to do is look at onboard shots of the ridiculous steadiness of his hands on the wheel compared to the likes of hamilton, alonso and kimi who all have to fight their cars and wrestle top notch results out of it.
Vettel is a very good driver and stands alone in that echelon, just below the aforementioned 3. His place in the pantheons of F1 lore are firmly in place, but perspective is needed though.
A while back you took a slag at JV for not being a good driver and only winning because the williams was head and shoulders above the competition. ( Although schumi and ferrari came awfully close to beating them in 1996 and 1997). I suppose your same rational should apply in this case right?

Yes you are right, you still have to finish first and drive well, but the car is just dominant. And sadly for the rest of the field, the tracks where they thought they could get the rBR was supposed to be Spa and monza because of the "lack of top end speed" of the car. This latest result just about demolishes the last bastion of hope. If the RBR can win dominantly in spa then lord help us all
LOL

[The Black Knight]

Vettel - though he clearly had the quickest package he made the most of it.

Alonso - great drive to move up to 2nd.

Ricciardo - mighty performance

Hamilton and Rosberg - both drove extremely well too. There were actually some really good performances throughout the grid today as a whole.

[zako85]

Yes you are right, you still have to finish first and drive well, but the car is just dominant. And sadly for the rest of the field, the tracks where they thought they could get the rBR was supposed to be Spa and monza because of the "lack of top end speed" of the car. This latest result just about demolishes the last bastion of hope. If the RBR can win dominantly in spa then lord help us all
LOL


I think it's just most teams got the car setup wrong. RBR was using very little wing expecting a dry race while Alonso's car on a shot next to it had visibly more rear wing.

[555-04Q2]

Always the winner...in this case Seb :)

[dj_bytedisaster]

nobody is saying that vettel is average
certainly not me
but the dominance of the car cannot be dismissed and using Webber as a yardstick especially in a more than often compromised 2nd car isn't worth the discussion either.

Saying that Webbers car is often compromised is a serious accusation, which is better backed up by facts. Can you prove that Webbers frequent clutch troubles aren't down to mishandling on his part? After all at Hungary his race engineer felt it neccessary to instruct him on how to handle the clutch at the start. I would have understood that if he was a bloody rookie...
Again, I find the constant implications that RB would 'compromise' or not properly prepare his car quite insolent.


Basically Vettel has had the best car for 3+ years running and good as he may be, has not had to drive his wits off to get good results or wins.
All one has to do is look at onboard shots of the ridiculous steadiness of his hands on the wheel compared to the likes of hamilton, alonso and kimi who all have to fight their cars and wrestle top notch results out of it.

Again, that's only half the truth. In the second half of 2010 the Ferrari was clearly the better car as was the McLaren for most of 2012. And if the RB was so massively dominant, how come we had seven different winners last year and 5 different ones this year already?
Looking at hand movements as a sign of the cars quality is the lamest joke I've heard since watching Jasper Carrot on the Beeb. Schumacher was hacksawing away at the wheel even in the most dominant Ferrari he ever had, while Button would probably drive every car with as little hand movement as possible, even a Marussia. Ever heard of driving style?


Vettel is a very good driver and stands alone in that echelon, just below the aforementioned 3. His place in the pantheons of F1 lore are firmly in place, but perspective is needed though.

You often say one cannot say how good Vettel truly is because he had always one of the best cars. So how can you know that he isn't as good as Alonso or Kimi, when he hasn't driven another car yet? Wouldn't those two assumptions contradict each other?
And besides, you also seem to forget that in all the history of F1 only seven drivers managed to score championships for more than one team - Fangio, Brabham, Steward, Piquet, Prost, Schumacher and Niki Lauda. All other won for only one team and it usually was the dominant one at the time with exceptions, like Rosberg '82.


A while back you took a slag at JV for not being a good driver and only winning because the williams was head and shoulders above the competition. ( Although schumi and ferrari came awfully close to beating them in 1996 and 1997). I suppose your same rational should apply in this case right?

You can't compare the 1996 and 1997 Williams with the Red Bull. The Williamses used to outqualify everyone but Schumacher by a second and more. We haven't seen that from the Red Bulls very often, have we?

[Garry Walker]

Since Webber couldn't park that hugely superior car anything higher than 5th, I suppose you rate him the same as Chilton then? :D
Based on yesterday, I rate Chilton higher.


He was never out-scored by any team mate at Toro Rosso or RB, in fact he has scored the majority of TR's points even with Vergnes and Riciardos points haul of this year. He's still the only one having finished any better than 6th in a TR. Saying he's just a mediocre slow-poke is wrong.
his teammates having been the all-time greats Liuzzi, Bourdais and Webber? Yeah, impressive :laugh:


Saying that Webbers car is often compromised is a serious accusation, which is better backed up by facts. Can you prove that Webbers frequent clutch troubles aren't down to mishandling on his part? After all at Hungary his race engineer felt it neccessary to instruct him on how to handle the clutch at the start. I would have understood that if he was a bloody rookie...
Again, I find the constant implications that RB would 'compromise' or not properly prepare his car quite insolent.
That kind of explains just how "great" his teammates have been.





Again, that's only half the truth. In the second half of 2010 the Ferrari was clearly the better car as was the McLaren for most of 2012.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Oh dear, you have relapsed again.




And if the RB was so massively dominant, how come we had seven different winners last year and 5 different ones this year already?

I am sure Horner and Newey must be thinking the same.

[dj_bytedisaster]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Oh dear, you have relapsed again.


So far I've not gotten a single fact out of you. On what do you base your assumption that the Red Bull was better than the McLaren at the start of 2012? Everyone, who's opinion isn't motivated by blind hatred says that RB was hit the hardest by having the trick diffusor nixed and needed until the pre-asia update to claw back all the lost downforce. During that time Lewis could have easily wrapped up hlaf the championship if it wasn't for McLaren's constant pit stop and strategy blunders.

[webberf1]

God this forum is always so full of this melodramatic, whiney, suppressed anger arguing.

[555-04Q2]

God this forum is always so full of this melodramatic, whiney, suppressed anger arguing.

So what's your point? You looking for trouble? You wanna try me for size? You wanna have a go? You trying to raise our temperatures again? What's your plan of A? What..... :p : ;)

[webberf1]

Lol. I don't mind argument at all. Just not when it constantly sounds like a bunch of 14y.o. girls on their rags.

[555-04Q2]

Lol. I don't mind argument at all. Just not when it constantly sounds like a bunch of 14y.o. girls on their rags.

:laugh: :up:

[driveace]

Since Webber couldn't park that hugely superior car anything higher than 5th, I suppose you rate him the same as Chilton then? :D

Your the guy I did expect a reply off .Do you or anybody else on here think that Webber has an equal car to Vettel?
Have you seen the cow jump over the moon too ?

[555-04Q2]

Your the guy I did expect a reply off .Do you or anybody else on here think that Webber has an equal car to Vettel?
Have you seen the cow jump over the moon too ?

Yes they have equal cars. Why would a company (any company) allow 50% of their end product to be voluntarily sabotaged/inferior to their opposition? That would be plain old stupid!!! Hundreds of people's hard work at the factory and millions of dollars worth of testing to get an extra tenth of a second and fine tuning would not be thrown away in this manner. They have equal cars, period.

[kfzmeister]

There is only one driver of the race. If it were just between Alonso and Vettel, then Alonso would clearly win based upon his performance. That drive was absolutely stellar. Period.

[Tazio]

Zo is truly a special pilot, this is borne out by the respect that the rest of the drivers give him, and Ferrari would be crazy to let him get away, but it is unfair imo to discount Seb's performance, as it was fast, and faultless. It is said by many that SV is not the "charger" that Fred or The Boss are, but it is hard to make that point when he rarely has to practice this skill, and when he does go through the field it is very easy to say that it is down to the car, which may or may not be. I think he deserves more credit than he gets on this forum.

[wedge]

Vettel & Alonso

I'm as sick of seeing Seb win in the best car as most but there's something special at seeing someone dominate at Spa, dropping the hammer and on the limit.

[jens]

Vettel & Alonso

I'm as sick of seeing Seb win in the best car as most but there's something special at seeing someone dominate at Spa, dropping the hammer and on the limit.

Good one. Reminds me 2001. After the Williams cars had stalled on the grid, Schumacher absolutely disappeared into the distance as there was no-one and no car to challenge him, while Fisichella in the Benetton was holding up others, notably the McLarens. Still a great drive, likewise Vettel's on Sunday.

[steveaki13]

Good one. Reminds me 2001. After the Williams cars had stalled on the grid, Schumacher absolutely disappeared into the distance as there was no-one and no car to challenge him, while Fisichella in the Benetton was holding up others, notably the McLarens. Still a great drive, likewise Vettel's on Sunday.


That was a special drive by Schumi. Albeit in the best car, he was 2 or 3 seconds faster than everyone at times and Fisichella wasnt holding people up much, he lost out to DC I seem to remember but was clear of others.

Race was a bizzare one, with Williams stalling on the grid and the massive Irvine, Burti crash.

[jens]

That was a special drive by Schumi. Albeit in the best car, he was 2 or 3 seconds faster than everyone at times and Fisichella wasnt holding people up much, he lost out to DC I seem to remember but was clear of others.

Race was a bizzare one, with Williams stalling on the grid and the massive Irvine, Burti crash.

Yeah, Fisichella wasn't holding up many people. I remember Barrichello being behind Fisi before the Brazilian lost his front wing. And then Coulthard.

[Tazio]

Alonso
Vettel
Riciardo
Alonso Vettel, or Vettel Zo, bro fair play. :dork: