Best Petrol in UK? Plus I need a new car... any suggestions? Please...

[rjbetty]

Hi everyone,

I use my car a lot these days for work and find I am doing about 2,000-3,000 miles per month!!! It kinda uses a lot of fuel.

I had been getting fuel from a cheapo station but... I found that the mileage is actually TERRIBLE. So would anyone here have an idea of which fuel is the best value (not necessarily the cheapest).

Also, my Vauxhall Astra, now with more than 138,000 miles on the clock is on it's last legs and it's time to get a new car. Bear in mind that I have NO money so was wondering what would be a good car to have. It has to be second-hand. I've heard that Volkswagens are very good, but I want a Ford Focus; something that runs reliably and importantly has GOOD mpg!!!!!!!

Ah appreciate any comments. Over. :)

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Budget?

[rjbetty]

Budget?

Literally zero! I'm thinking of getting a decent one like a Focus on finance or something...

UPDATE: Just tried to start my Astra only to find it's literally and completely dead. :eek:

[D-Type]

Despite what people say, I don't believe there is that much difference between different brands of fuel. It comes from the same refineries, the independents simply buying excess production from any of the majors. The only possible difference is that some brands may have been blended down to meet the minimum octane number allowed, but if that has been done it won't be below it.
As to car choice I simply don't know. I have had bad experiences with two VWs but my brother in law swears by tham and won't have any other car. If buying secondhand you will often get more car for your money if you get a less popular make like a Hyundai. With the mileage you do, it is worth buying a car with low mileage for the year which you will be able to sell in a year or two as an average mileage car. It's generally cheaper to get a bank loan than buying on finance.

[janneppi]

Is diesel cheaper with mileage around 20-30k miles per year in UK?
Get a Volvo S40 2,0D, you get Ford Focus handling with a reliable(ish) Peugeot engine. ;)

[Mark]

All fuel from UK petrol stations adheres to the same standard and is the same. So it makes zero difference where you buy from.

Last time I checked they don't give cars away so you are going to need some budget. Even for a Focus ;)

[rjbetty]

All fuel from UK petrol stations adheres to the same standard and is the same. So it makes zero difference where you buy from.

Last time I checked they don't give cars away so you are going to need some budget. Even for a Focus ;)

Aw ok, I heard this may be the case. In that case maybe I should just stay away from supermarket fuel as a rule. But I did find an independent petrol station that was cheaper than any other. However it's fuel has TERRIBLE mileage!

As for the car, I was hoping Matt Wilson would give me his 2010 Focus seeing he isn't using it anymore. Failing that, I am relying on the generous people of motorsportforums clubbing together and buying me a new machine. Thanks guys, appreciate it. :P

[tfp]

Despite what people say, I don't believe there is that much difference between different brands of fuel. It comes from the same refineries, the independents simply buying excess production from any of the majors. The only possible difference is that some brands may have been blended down to meet the minimum octane number allowed, but if that has been done it won't be below it.
As to car choice I simply don't know. I have had bad experiences with two VWs but my brother in law swears by tham and won't have any other car. If buying secondhand you will often get more car for your money if you get a less popular make like a Hyundai. With the mileage you do, it is worth buying a car with low mileage for the year which you will be able to sell in a year or two as an average mileage car. It's generally cheaper to get a bank loan than buying on finance.

Depends on the car, I can't imagine many factory standard cars that would change in performance or MPG through using different fuel.

But if you look at reasonably highly tuned cars that's when it does make a difference. Reliability more than anything else.

Lower octane fuel usually has lower burning temps, leading to detonation and melted pistons etc. I'm sure others with more knowledge on this forum can tell more.

[Rollo]

Depends on the car, I can't imagine many factory standard cars that would change in performance or MPG through using different fuel.
But if you look at reasonably highly tuned cars that's when it does make a difference. Reliability more than anything else.

This is a handy link to do with the calorific value of various fuels:
Calorific Values | JATRO (http://www.jatrofuels.com/170-0-Calorific+Values.html)

In general, running a higher octane rated petrol in an engine does diddly squat because all petrol, regardless of its octane rating, has pretty much the same amount of energy per litre.


Lower octane fuel usually has lower burning temps, leading to detonation and melted pistons etc. I'm sure others with more knowledge on this forum can tell more.

Lower octane fuel by definition burns faster. The whole point of a higher octane fuel is to make the burn more slow and by extract more energy from increased compression ratios. The thing is that an engine by design is specific for an octane rating. If you choose to put a higher octane rated fuel into your car, that's fine but you don't actually change the physical dimensions of the combustion chamber and because of this, you don't get any more power. In fact, petrol companies actually put flame retardants into higher octane petrol to keep it from igniting prematurely - in effect, higher octane fuels actually contain marginally less energy per litre because they also contain other stuff.

[D-Type]

Some confusion here. I think rjbetty was asking about different brands of petrol: Shell, Esso, Tesco, etc not different grades of petrol: regular and super, normal and high octane or whatever term is used. There is diddly squat difference between different brands of regular petrol or between different brands of higher octane petrol. There is a difference between the different grades. Some high performance engines demand the higher grade and will not run well on the lower grade. The converse is not true - an ordinary engine, like in an Astra, is designed to run on regular fuel and there is no advantage in running it on the higher grade stuff. The only exception to this is if the Astra is way out of tune - I'm not technically minded but I think that means with the ignition timing advanced too far.

Interestingly, diesel can vary, but this is a temperature thing. [British] summer diesel is prone to waxing in cold weather so in winter they change the formulation. I assume that in cold climates, eg the Alaska 'hell run', the lower wax grade is standard and in the Middle East it can be either grade. Has anybody who runs a diesel car noticed whether the price of diesel goes up slightly in winter? I would expect it would.

[Mark]

I've noticed the price of diesel goes up.

[janneppi]

It goes up here too, but apparently because lot of houses are heated with oil and it's demand goes up when it's cold.

[SGWilko]

Only driving experience in a specific car using different fuels will determine which gives best MPG and performance. Generally, on my 1.8 diesel (Ford) I get best mileage when I use Shell, and it is not as good with supermarket fuel.

Generally, I use Free UK fuel prices. Over 8,000 petrol stations covered - PetrolPrices.com (http://www.petrolprices.com) to find the cheapest garages in any given area when planning long journeys. If there is a Shell/Esso/Total next or near to a supermarket garage, the prices will be keener. BP just seem to charge through the nose full stop.....

As to what car to replace the Astra, with your mileage a diesel is better. If you can get yours running, use it to PX on a used car. All cars have their own issues to be aware of, so research on owners forums to find the most suitable car for high mileage running. The last thing you need is a car that'll need the PAS of diesel pump replaced etc!

Good luck.

[Mintexmemory]

It has to be said the biggest contributor to mileage (or lack of it ) is the weight placed on the right hand pedal. When I entered a road rally in my old Saab 93 in 2008 I got 23 mpg in the course of the event. On the motorway drive home 40mpg. Driving in as high a gear as possible, smooth acceleration and braking so as not to needlessly over-rev and avoiding traffic light grands prix will all vastly improve fuel economy. Then there are the mechanical causes of poor fuel economy: Incorrectly inflated tyres, binding brakes, slipping clutch and (hopefully already checked) fuel line leaks. Where you buy your fuel makes no difference whatsoever - unless you are driving a 20 mile round trip to save 3p per litre ;)

[Mark]

On my 35 mile drive to work I can get between 40MPG and 80MPG, depending on how I drive.

[SGWilko]

On my 35 mile drive to work I can get between 40MPG and 80MPG, depending on how I drive.

And the traffic.....

I'm currently achieving 142mpg - an 2 year average of 120.5mpg!

[Mintexmemory]

And the traffic.....

I'm currently achieving 142mpg - an 2 year average of 120.5mpg!

Hybrid or Moped?

[Mark]

And the traffic.....

If I'm saving fuel I'm travelling about 50mph, so I only really get traffic on the first and last mile of my journey, the rest is as a speed of my choosing. However the traffic that does exist means that going much more than 60mph isn't usually possible.

[SGWilko]

Hybrid or Moped?

50cc twist'n'go!

[555-04Q2]

Hi everyone,

I use my car a lot these days for work and find I am doing about 2,000-3,000 miles per month!!! It kinda uses a lot of fuel.

I had been getting fuel from a cheapo station but... I found that the mileage is actually TERRIBLE. So would anyone here have an idea of which fuel is the best value (not necessarily the cheapest).

Also, my Vauxhall Astra, now with more than 138,000 miles on the clock is on it's last legs and it's time to get a new car. Bear in mind that I have NO money so was wondering what would be a good car to have. It has to be second-hand. I've heard that Volkswagens are very good, but I want a Ford Focus; something that runs reliably and importantly has GOOD mpg!!!!!!!

Ah appreciate any comments. Over. :)

Get a bicycle. Not only will it cost you nothing to run but you'll get fit as hell doing 2000 - 3000 miles a month :D

[airshifter]

The best bet is to log MPG and compare for yourself. This applies to brands as well as fuel grades. The results when you look at facts can often be surprising.

I've logged MPG on the vehicles for many years, through various vehicles and mods to some of them. Generally fuel that gives a better MPG in one vehicle will also do so in all vehicles I've owned at any given time. And really brand names don't mean much of anything. In my area our current vehicles always get lower MPG with Exxon fuel. Always. Right now BP and quicky store 7/11 give the same MPG return, with the 7/11 being more cost effective. At one point years ago (before ethanol blends here) Amoco/BP was one of the most expensive fuels, but also most cost effective dollar for dollar.



The same applies to grade, the only way to know is to properly log and test. Our economy car will actually lose MPG using premium fuel. Our SUV gains MPG using higher grades. It's not a great deal more and just barely more cost effective, but we don't have to fill as often since the tanks go farther. A lot of the variation these days will be based on the major design factors that Rollo mentioned above, along with the electronics side of how the vehicle manages timing and such.

Over here in the US it's not uncommon for an engine to cross platform between brands (Chevy/GM/Cadillac) with only minor changes and programming changes. While the higher end models might require premium fuel, others might not. But that is not to say they can't benefit from the engine design.

[MrJan]

I've spent nothing on fuel in at least six months and currently getting around 55mpg...however I do seem to be giving HMRC a good chunk of my salary :(

[Mark]

I fill up at either Esso or Tesco for my diesel. I notice no difference in MPG between the two.

[D-Type]

On the question of diesel, does anybody know how to remove the red dye from red diesel? I'm told it can be done. But, remember that as it is totally illegal we can only discuss this out of academic interest.

[driveace]

I R A know how to do it ! They have been shipping red diesel south of the border and getting the dye out and shipping it back as white diesel nearly since Nelson lost his eye
,And making money on it !

[rjbetty]

@airshifter Yeah I've just started to log the mpg myself now. I got 500miles from a 50 litre tank of Esso based on filling up at another station. The amount of litres that went in before the tank was full was 28.32 so I knew that's how much Esso had been used. I then took the mileage I had completed in this period, calculating and extrapolating to 500 miles/50 litres.

With the 28.32 of Sainsburys fuel added to the remaining 21.68 from Esso, I got what was looking like much better mpg. Took about 150/160 miles for the petrol tank to get down to 3/4s compared to 125/135 for the Esso alone. The experiment didn't last long as my car packed up. Turns out with 138,000 miles on the clock, my Vauxhall Astra has quite simply "had it" (in the words of 2 garages).