Joint NASCAR Sprint Cup/Australian V8 Supercar race -- could it happen?

[R.Lee]

Being new here, I look through archives, to see what topics are discussed, attitudes, etc., kind of get the feeling of the forums, so to speak. Unless I over looked it, I did not see a thread about this either here in the NASCAR forum or in the Touring Car forum, which I must say, kind of surprised me. Here is one of quite a few clips that have been posted on YouTube and other sites:

Kurt Busch turns laps at Circuit of The Americas - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utJoddDygG4)

Two weeks before the inagural Australian V8 Supercar race, at the new Circuit of the Americas track, in Austin, TX, NASCAR Sprint Cup driver, Kurt Busch was invited to the track to drive a Holden (Australian GM division) Commondor VF, V8 Supercar, as part of a promotion for the upcoming race. Kurt did them one better and brought his team and one of their Chevrolet SS, Sprint Cup cars. His idea, since the Chevrolet SS is basically a re-branded Commondor VF, it might be fun to do a car swap with one of the V8 Supercar drivers. James Courtney and Fabian Coultard were there, demonstrating a V8 Supercar and giving rides to media types. Courtney jumped at the chance to drive the Sprint Cup car, as Busch did at the chance to drive the V8. After the swap, Busch talked about driving the V8, in an interview, explaining that it was amazing to watch the Sprint Cup car accelerate away from the Supercar on the straights, only to see the Supercar catch back up and pass the Cup car through the turns. The Cup car, he explained had more horsepower, giving it the speed advantage on the straights, but that the Supercar weights less and is far more nimble. The two cars, he explained were for all intents equal. He said that he thought the two series could put on a great race. Much of the interview was chopped, but enough was seen to understand what he meant. He said he thought it could be big.

I'm not a road-racing fan, but for some reason, I have developed a liking for the V8 Supercar Series. I like Kurt's idea and would like to see the Cup cars and Supercars put on an exebition race between the two series. It should be run at COTA, V8 cars are not suitable for running on an oval. Do it the weekend before the World 600, at Charlotte. The V8s will be here for there race, so they would not have the expense of having to make an additional trip from Australia. Make it somewhere around 300 miles in length. Run it after the V8, maybe the day afterward, yes, Monday, but many people are already on holiday, for the following weekend's Memorial Day weekend. Pay a decent enough purse, to make it attractive for the teams from both series to compete. Should be a great show! Curious of anyone else, like myself, would like to see this. I'm going to post this on the NASCAR forum as well, to see what the fans there think.

[Rollo]

A Sprint Cup car is a 5860cc, four-speed manual, developing 645kW and about 720Nm of torque unrestricted. They weigh 1,451 kg dry.
A V8Supercar is a 5000cc, six-speed manual, developing 485kW and about 620Nm of torque unrestricted. They weigh 1,410 kg dry.

On the face of it, a NASCAR should be able to by sheer power be faster than a V8Supercar but the V8Supercar has two distinct advantages on road courses:

1. The six speed gearbox means that it could sit more closely to the top of the torque curve for longer. A V8 Supercar would be able to punch out of every single turn faster and because it would leave corners faster, it would carry a higher top speed more quickly.

2. The aero kit on a V8 Supercar means that it would carry a higher speed through the corners, better downforce means that it would be able to translate that power down more efficiently and effectively and for those two reasons, it would carry a higher top speed more quickly.

Quite frankly, I think that the only courses which a NASCAR would post a better lap time than a V8Supercar would be the bigger superspeedways. I think that that also goes for smaller tracks like Bristol Motor Speedway because a V8Supercar would accelerate faster.
A track like Watkins Glen certainly proves that a NASCAR around a road course would be like trying to do ballet in boots in comparison to a V8Supercar.

[zako85]

I don't know what would be the point of a race with NASCAR cars. I like seeing V8 supercar races as is without NAScars mixed in. They were designed and built for very different kind of racing.


May I suggest a more interesting kind of (pointless) question. Would it be possible at least in theory to race V8 Supercars against Porsche 911 Cup cars? Porsche's family of 911 GT3 race cars have a variety modifications, ranging from the standard lower cost GT3 Cup cars that are used in spec racing in various Porsche Cups to more exotic GT3 RSR cars that race in 24 hour of Le Mans. I am sure one of them could be modified to be on a level ground with a V8 Supercar.

[Rollo]

As it is GT3 cars such as the Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG, Ferrari 458 GT3, Porsche 997 GT3-R and Audi R8 LMS Ultra all set comparable lap times to the V8Supercars at most tracks including Bathurst.

Peronally I'd like to see someone take a VF Ute with the 6.2 LS3 V8 and V8Supercar developed suspension components etc, then taken to Le Mans. Just remember to chuck the dogs in the back of the ute, they'd love it.

[wedge]

As it is GT3 cars such as the Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG, Ferrari 458 GT3, Porsche 997 GT3-R and Audi R8 LMS Ultra all set comparable lap times to the V8Supercars at most tracks including Bathurst.

They're quicker at Bathurst. The GT3 cars lap under 2m 10s. Craig Lowndes says the GT3 cars have more downforce than V8SC.


I don't know what would be the point of a race with NASCAR cars. I like seeing V8 supercar races as is without NAScars mixed in. They were designed and built for very different kind of racing.

They are, erm, interesting to see race and definitely a contrast to nimble GTs/V8SC.

Watching an old race from Riverside with a driver like Alan Kulwicki flinging a stock car around the Esses or JPM smoking the tyres into the bus stop at The GLen can be joyful to watch but Nationwide cars racing at Road America or Montreal can look odd.

[zako85]

wedge,

That's something I suspected. It's interesting to know that the Porsche GT3 Cup cars often used in short sprint "support" races, including for V8SC in Austin, can be as fast as the V8SC cars. Though I must say, the V8SCs sound much better, louder and more violent. Porsche GT3s sound like hair driers that are passing by at high speed.

[R.Lee]

I don't know what would be the point of a race with NASCAR cars.
A race with NASCAR cars, here in the U.S.. Oh, I guess there really isn't a point -- unless you would want to put allot more eyes on the V8 Supercars Series, here in the U.S.. To date, they have run exactly one event here. If I haven't learned anything else, in over 50 years of following racing in this country, I have learned that racing is a niche sport! The problem is that it is further divided into allot of sub-niches. That means that, unlike the various "Stick and ball" sports, there is a finite number of racing fans. That finite number of fans, divided into the different sub-niches is pretty much exclusive to the type of racing that they enjoy. The multi-series, multi-forms of racing fans are a very small minority over all. I am a stock car racing fan and was pretty much exclusively a stock car racing fan, only liking stock cars on oval tracks. I developed an interest in the V8 Supercars because I have a friend that talked me into watching the 2011 Bathurst 1000. I wasn't really interested, but my buddy said, "Look, there are not any NASCAR races running, your girl friend is out of town and you're sitting at home bored. Come on over, have a steak and a few beers. It's a good racing series." I went and my friend was right, it is a good racing series and even though I am not a road-racing fan, I enjoyed it. I I had chosen not to go to my friend's house and watch that race, that evening, chances are that I would not ever have developed any interest in the V8 Supercars. Run this as a joint series exibition race and NASCAR fans will tune in and watch and perhaps, like me, they will see that it is a good racing series and will watch other races. Promotion, THAT is the point of this!

[TheFamousEccles]

Peronally I'd like to see someone take a VF Ute with the 6.2 LS3 V8 and V8Supercar developed suspension components etc, then taken to Le Mans. Just remember to chuck the dogs in the back of the ute, they'd love it.

Can you imagine the dogs sticking their heads out into the breeze, tongues flapping along the side of their heads and barking at other cars? Maybe on Mulsanne? That would be priceless. :)

[TheFamousEccles]

BTW R.Lee - I have posted a few links to the Busch lad having a blast in the V8SC, and to both a NASCAR and V8SC lapping around COTA. There here somewhere....(BTCC vs WTCC vs DTM vs V8SC thread I recon).

Maybe some parity/handicapping may get these two beasties circulating at similar times - but my guess is the V8SC would leave the NASCAR behind on all tracks except the superspeedways. Would still be cool to watch, though.

[R.Lee]

BTW R.Lee - I have posted a few links to the Busch lad having a blast in the V8SC, and to both a NASCAR and V8SC lapping around COTA. There here somewhere....(BTCC vs WTCC vs DTM vs V8SC thread I recon).
Thank you. :D I looked back through old threads, but must have overlooked them. I'll look again. I might have seen them, but in case I haven't I'd like too.


Maybe some parity/handicapping may get these two beasties circulating at similar times - but my guess is the V8SC would leave the NASCAR behind on all tracks except the superspeedways. Would still be cool to watch, though.
I don't know, Busch seemed to think, after driving both his Cup car and Supercar around COTA, that they would be pretty close, that they were fairly equal. Maybe neither driver pushed the cars to the max, but I don't think either held either car back. Courtney was impressed with the Sprint Cup car's power and acceledration on the straight aways. Busch was impressed with the Supercar's quickness and nimble handling. It might be a closer race than many think. There is no doubt that the Sprint Cup car would be faster on the speedways. They are built for ovals and have fairly large horsepower advantage. The Supercar is a purpose built road-racing car. It's chasse is nowhere near as stiff as the Sprint Cup car's and it does not have the oval track weight bias of an oval car. I believe I read, somewhere that the top end speed of a Supercar is somewhere in the 180 mph range, where the Cup cars easily top 200 mph speeds on the straight aways of 1 1/2 mile ovals and turn laps in the high 190 to 200 mph range on 2 mile and longer tracks. Of course, if they ran a Supercar on an oval, they would put a speedway gear in the car, which would allow it to run higher speeds, but the Cup car has a larger engine, 358 cubic inches, where the Supercar has an engine of around 305 cubic inches. Bigger engine equals more horsepower, which makes a huge difference on an oval. I do believe, like you, that it would be a really cool race to watch, regardless of what, if any advantage, one series' cars might have over the other. :D

[TheFamousEccles]

Yep, there isn't any substitute for cubic inches ;)

[Rollo]

When Murphy Clocked His Lap Of The Gods - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRzLBFQ5M2Y)
- Greg Murphy 2:06.859
Since then, cars have been limited further with diff and gearbox ratios.

I have no doubt that a V8Supercar if wound up all the way could do 350km/h (217mph). However, Rusty Wallace in an unrestricted (ie no restrictor plates) and unofficial test at Talladega hit 367km/h (228mph).

I concur that a Sprint Cup would fart eggs all over a V8Supercar. More power, more torque, less drag.

[R.Lee]

When Murphy Clocked His Lap Of The Gods - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRzLBFQ5M2Y)
- Greg Murphy 2:06.859
Since then, cars have been limited further with diff and gearbox ratios.

I have no doubt that a V8Supercar if wound up all the way could do 350km/h (217mph). However, Rusty Wallace in an unrestricted (ie no restrictor plates) and unofficial test at Talladega hit 367km/h (228mph).

I concur that a Sprint Cup would fart eggs all over a V8Supercar. More power, more torque, less drag.
Agree. I remember Wallace's test and the speeds he turned. Not to get off topic, the cars they are driving today are lighter than the one that Wallace drove back then. The engines are producing more hp too. I've heard rumors that they're now putting out 950 hp, at least 100 horses more than the engine in the car that Wallace tested that day. Wonder what kind of lap speed one, running unrestricted today, would be able to turn?

[TheFamousEccles]

950hp from a push rod V8 -lapping for hours at high revs - is pretty impressive.

Rollo, the mental image of a NASCAR farting eggs is something I think will take some time to recover from. Thank you. :eek: