Pit lane reporting a thing of the past?

[henners88]

In the last few days the FIA have taken action to increase safety in the pit lane after the events at the Nurburgring that saw a cameraman hospitalised. There is now a ban on anybody who is not team personnel from entering the pitlane during live sessions.


"Access for approved media will be confined to the pit wall."

BBC Sport - Formula 1: Media banned from pit lanes following safety concerns (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23249596)

Will this have much effect on the way news is reported from the pit lane in future? Pit lane reporters like Tom Clarkson and Gary Anderson who make their way around the garages and pit lane looking for information are likely to be restricted. Lee McKenzie interviews drivers as they return to the pit lane after incidents too. Will these people still be able to bring the viewer interesting snippets or will commentators be left guessing more often than not and filling the time?

Dealing with consequence, ignoring the cause | The Buxton Blog (http://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/2013/07/10/dealing-with-consequence-ignoring-the-cause/)

Many in Formula One feel the pit lane speed limit should be reduced and tighter controls over where cameramen should stand etc. Reasonable measures, but the FIA have chosen a blanket ban at this stage that many journalists are unhappy with. What are peoples thoughts here? :)

[Daniel]

In the last few days the FIA have taken action to increase safety in the pit lane after the events at the Nurburgring that saw a cameraman hospitalised. There is now a ban on anybody who is not team personnel from entering the pitlane during live sessions.



BBC Sport - Formula 1: Media banned from pit lanes following safety concerns (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23249596)

Will this have much effect on the way news is reported from the pit lane in future? Pit lane reporters like Tom Clarkson and Gary Anderson who make their way around the garages and pit lane looking for information are likely to be restricted. Lee McKenzie interviews drivers as they return to the pit lane after incidents too. Will these people still be able to bring the viewer interesting snippets or will commentators be left guessing more often than not and filling the time?

Dealing with consequence, ignoring the cause | The Buxton Blog (http://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/2013/07/10/dealing-with-consequence-ignoring-the-cause/)

Many in Formula One feel the pit lane speed limit should be reduced and tighter controls over where cameramen should stand etc. Reasonable measures, but the FIA have chosen a blanket ban at this stage that many journalists are unhappy with. What are peoples thoughts here? :)

I don't see how a lower pitlane speed limit would have changed what happened.

I think that in the short term, a blanket ban isn't a bad idea, but only if they are going to review it in the future.

[henners88]

The lower speed limit was just a suggestion a few team members and Gary Anderson put forward as a possible measure. I suppose Webber's incident was an unsafe release in reality and any number of pit crew from any team could have been injured. The cameraman was just unfortunate to be a member of the media. I wonder what the outcome would have been if it had been one of the Mercedes pit crew who was knocked over? They couldn't ban all pit crew from the lane and it would likely have been just an incident. It wouldn't be the first time a stray tyre has taken out a pit member and not the first time someone has been injured etc. I personally don't feel the problem has been tackled with a ban. I think this is a danger whoever is in the pit lane, but something that is difficult to manage due to the nature of the sport and the need for pit stops.

Could there be a limit of wheel spin when exiting the pit box I wonder?

[Mark]

Knee jerk reaction, we've had the current situation for years without any problems, you can't make changes like that based on a one off chance event.

[vhatever]

On the positive side, I won't have to hear some pit lane reporter trying to talk over a formula 1 engine with some tiny bit of irrelevance. Unfortunately, the vacuum will probably be filled by the equally vapid "color" commentators.

Bit more seriously, I don't see a reason for it. the reporters should sign some kind of release form freeing F1 of financial concerns of their safety. If that tire hadn't hit a camera man, it would have probably speared a member of the pit crew. Go ahead and ban them, too.

[henners88]

I think its a typical knee jerk reaction too. Allowing selected media to be on the pit wall is just as dangerous as a tyre could just as easily bounce into that area IMO. I think the FIA should have spent a little longer addressing the issues rather than making a judgement less than 48 hours after this unfortunate incident occurred. We'll see how its greeted, but I expect we'll see different measures within a few races. It has potential to put a lot of people out of a job and limit the viewing experience for TV viewers IMO.

[AndyL]

I guess we'll have to wait and see but it may not be as bad for TV viewers as you fear. The likes of Gary Anderson and Ted Kravitz do most of their reporting from in the garages, not on the pit lane, and they will still be able to move between garages via the paddock. Lee McKenzie interviewing drivers after retirements will also be behind the garages, I doubt she goes anywhere near the pitlane when the race is in progress. We will probably lose some of the close-up camera work at pit stops, but over time they will be able to compensate for that by increased use of overhead and remote controlled cameras. One of those wire-suspended remote cameras would be good for pitlane coverage.

[henners88]

I guess we'll have to wait and see but it may not be as bad for TV viewers as you fear. The likes of Gary Anderson and Ted Kravitz do most of their reporting from in the garages, not on the pit lane, and they will still be able to move between garages via the paddock. Lee McKenzie interviewing drivers after retirements will also be behind the garages, I doubt she goes anywhere near the pitlane when the race is in progress. We will probably lose some of the close-up camera work at pit stops, but over time they will be able to compensate for that by increased use of overhead and remote controlled cameras. One of those wire-suspended remote cameras would be good for pitlane coverage.
Some very good points Andy. The loss of close up camera's in the pit stops will be sad but if they can be replaced with remote controlled camera's then that is problem solved. I know with so many pit stop blunders over the years, its always nice to get the quality of footage we've been given. It allows a deeper understanding and helps find who was at fault in many cases. I hope this move won't have too many negative effects.

[zako85]

Knee jerk reaction, we've had the current situation for years without any problems, you can't make changes like that based on a one off chance event.

I agree. A knee jerk reaction. What's next, ban all motor racing? It's all about calculated risk. Drivers understand the risks. They know they can die in an instant in most of motorsports, including Formula 1. Reporters are not stupid either. They know that crazy stuff can happen on the pit lane. I for one would think twice about doing my job on a Formula 1, IndyCar or NASCAR pit lane having witnessed lots of unsafe stuff, but if there is someone willing to take this risk, why not? Certainly, I think it's fair to require the pit lane reporters to take reasonable precautions, such as wearing helmets, race suits, and what not. As a show viewer, I appreciate the video reports from Formula 1, V8 Supercars, and other pits. The video reporters who work there are doing an important job.

[SGWilko]

Knee jerk reaction, we've had the current situation for years without any problems, you can't make changes like that based on a one off chance event.

True, but as the teams strive to turn cars around in less and less time, this will become of an issue.

[AndyL]

Certainly, I think it's fair to require the pit lane reporters to take reasonable precautions, such as wearing helmets, race suits, and what not. As a show viewer, I appreciate the video reports from Formula 1, V8 Supercars, and other pits. The video reporters who work there are doing an important job.

I don't think we are really talking about reporters here though. As I understand it, it's rare for reporters to be in the pit lane during the race. Ted Kravitz from Sky doesn't think it will greatly affect him. It will mainly be cameramen and perhaps photographers who are affected I think.

[Rollo]

Why wouldn't it make sense to have pit-lane camera operators in fire-proofs and helmets like the pit crews? Shouldn't a standard apply to anyone in pit lane?

[N4D13]

Why wouldn't it make sense to have pit-lane camera operators in fire-proofs and helmets like the pit crews? Shouldn't a standard apply to anyone in pit lane?
I think you'll find it rather difficult to operate a camera with a helmet on. Anyway, I disagree with those who say that this was an overreaction. Cameramen, journalist and such people don't really need to be in the pitlane to do their jobs. The less people in the pitlane, the less likely it will be to have any accidents there. I think it was quite a sensible and reasonable decision, actually.

[schmenke]

...I think the FIA should have spent a little longer addressing the issues rather than making a judgement less than 48 hours after this unfortunate incident occurred. ....

Exactly. Is the FIA not investigating why the RBR pit crew failed to set the wheel properly in the first place? In what is supposed to be the “pinnacle” of motor racing, with standardized pit equipment, changing a wheel should be somewhat a routine task. If the FIA is serious about pit safety the cause of this failure should be investigated, and not, as has been said, apply a knee-jerk reaction and ban reporters simply because it happened to be one of them that was injured.

[SGWilko]

Exactly. Is the FIA not investigating why the RBR pit crew failed to set the wheel properly in the first place? In what is supposed to be the “pinnacle” of motor racing, with standardized pit equipment, changing a wheel should be somewhat a routine task. If the FIA is serious about pit safety the cause of this failure should be investigated, and not, as has been said, apply a knee-jerk reaction and ban reporters simply because it happened to be one of them that was injured.

Take any routine job around the home, try to do it in a fraction of the time you would conscientiously do it, and see how well you complete said task.. More haste, less speed.......

[wedge]

Exactly. Is the FIA not investigating why the RBR pit crew failed to set the wheel properly in the first place? In what is supposed to be the “pinnacle” of motor racing, with standardized pit equipment, changing a wheel should be somewhat a routine task. If the FIA is serious about pit safety the cause of this failure should be investigated, and not, as has been said, apply a knee-jerk reaction and ban reporters simply because it happened to be one of them that was injured.

What went wrong at RBR was that an accidental finger slip triggered the 'go' sequence.

Regardless of an even slower pit road speed limit, the number of people who can perform a pit stop there is the pressure of performing a very quick stop will always be there because that is the nature of competition so mistakes will happen.

Will the nature of pit reporting change? No. Reporters don't necessarily need to be stepping out into the middle of pit lane for their investigations.

I know they have a job to do but I get the impression cameramen take their roles for granted a bit because you do seem to see them standing gormless in pit road.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Although it is a kneejerk reaction, I think FIA is doing something right for a change. There are too many people in the pitlane to begin with. We don't need cameramen standing right next to the pit crew. Do I need to see the pimples on the driver's face while he's getting new socks? No. While we're at it, the number of pitcrew members should be reduced. Most other forms of motorsport have a strict limit of how many people can work on the car. Pitstop get longer by a second or two, but the risk of error is reduced.
Also, why do there need to be 5 or 6 people on the pitwall? All it takes are someone to supervise everything and one to hold out the pitboards. Everyone else could to his job just as well from the garage. The less people you have loitering about the pitlane, the less chance of an accident should something go wrong.

[donKey jote]

I think you'll find it rather difficult to operate a camera with a helmet on.

Helmetcam ? ;) :p
uCy8Xtp2P20

[dj_bytedisaster]

Ever watched the Tour the France? The Moto-Cameramen have helmets on and can do their job just fine

off-topic: Five minutes ago got the green light on a one-year contract as database admin for Volkswagen for more than 2 grand a week :D life's good ...

[Daniel]

Knee jerk reaction, we've had the current situation for years without any problems, you can't make changes like that based on a one off chance event.

I never quite understand this attitude, Senna's accident was a one off?

[dj_bytedisaster]

I never quite understand this attitude, Senna's accident was a one off?

Well that was just a freak weekend. First there was Rubens's horrific shunt, then Ratzenbergers death, Senna the next day and Alboreto's wheel going flying and hitting a mechanic. After such a weekend some kneejerk reactions were understandable.

[SGWilko]

Helmetcam ? ;) :p
uCy8Xtp2P20

He really needed the helmet cam when using the chainsaw to renovate his hotel rooms......

[tjoepie]

So if a tyre comes loose and ends up in the crowd and kills people (which has happened in the past, sadly), are they going to ban crowds?

[truefan72]

a complete overreaction
so what happens when a loose wheel bounces into the stands?
no more fans allowed?

or if debris somehow got a media photographer in one of those premium on track spots,
no more media outside of the fan zones?

after the fire in the williams pit, i did not see them ban family and friends from being in the garage

this is a stupid and unnecessary overreaction to a freak incident
which will only serve to diminish the value and perception of the sport

F1 is no more dangerous than any other series and if they can have pit area media then so should F1
I can see a bunch of media outlets pulling out of F1 because the ridiculous broadcast fees where somewhat justified by the access that was provided etc.

[schmenke]

I never quite understand this attitude, Senna's accident was a one off?

Pretty much, yes.
Senna’s unfortunate accident was the result of broken steering in his car, but the FIA reacted by reconfiguring the section of the circuit where he was killed (not to mention many other circuits) :mark: .

Sorry, off topic...

[schmenke]

Take any routine job around the home, try to do it in a fraction of the time you would conscientiously do it, and see how well you complete said task.. More haste, less speed.......

Fair enough, but crews rehearse pit stops to the point where they can pretty much do them blindfolded. A tire swap is routine for them.

My point is that the FIA, once again, is not resolving the root of this accident. They should be reviewing the teams’ pit stop procedures and protocol to determine if anything needs changing to make them safer. Simply banning unnecessary personnel from the pit lane is not solving the issue of potentially unsafe pit stops.

[SGWilko]

No, but what they have done, to mitigate that very threat, is have high fencing in place to protect said crowd. They have even been nice enough to use fencing one can see through.....

[SGWilko]

Fair enough, but crews rehearse pit stops to the point where they can pretty much do them blindfolded. A tire swap is routine for them.



Except they practice when it is not in a high pressure win/lose situation - and that is the very situation when humans make silly mistakes - like lifting lollipops even when they see a car approaching for example......

[SGWilko]

unnecessary personnel

.....don't need to be there - no big loss.

[The Black Knight]

I see this whole thing as been completely blown out of proportion. A wheel came loose, it doesn't happen that often. It could have just as easily hit a mechanic. If that were the case would they now be banned from the pit-lane?

I understand not wanting anyone to get hurt but they know the risks when they enter the pit-lane.

The main issue I see is that teams not being careful enough when frantically trying to release their car and I can see this happening again regardless of whether a reporter is in the pitlane or not.

How about setting a minimum pit stop time of say 5 seconds? If there's a problem that's enough time for everyone to know by then. That might help.

Alternatively, bring back refueling. I know a lot of people weren't fans of it but personally every time I watch the start of a race it's like watching a bunch of trucks go around the track. They are too slow now and it's really only the second half of the race they come alive again. Would make for more interesting strategy as well. I'm not a fan of the tire "strategies" currently in F1. I think Schumacher would have won a race as well on his comeback were refueling still in F1.

[Nem14]

I never quite understand this attitude, Senna's accident was a one off?Yes. It was one-of-a-kind.
The vast majority of driver fatalities result from unique circumstances.
I don't know of any other driver that has been fatally injured in the same way Senna was.

If the suspension component had not pierced his helmet visor and then his head, Senna would have survived the crash relatively unscathed.
He had no other injuries that came anywhere close to being life threatening.
If Senna had impacted the wall at an angle just a couple of degrees steeper or shallower, the right front tire would have missed him entirely.

Roland Ratzenberger had several lethal blunt force trauma injuries including a torn aorta and a basilar skull fracture.

It may be worth noting that in the recent pit incident, the cameraman was facing away from the tire that hit him, and was completely unaware the tire was bearing down on him.
Cameramen could wear helmets that do not include a chin bar so they can still put their eye to the camera viewfinder.

Knee-jerk reactions are very common, like the knee-jerk calls for canopies on open cockpit cars after Dan Weldon's tragic accident, and calls to put a fence between the pit out road and the track at the Lausitzring after Alex Zanardi's costly pit out driving error.

[steveaki13]

Have to say I agree.

Mind you do we really need these camera men there? After all there must be a way of filming the pitlane via other means

[steveaki13]

Well that was just a freak weekend. First there was Rubens's horrific shunt, then Ratzenbergers death, Senna the next day and Alboreto's wheel going flying and hitting a mechanic. After such a weekend some kneejerk reactions were understandable.

Didnt a wheel off Lamys car also go into the crowd at one of the starts? As you say that was some weird weekend

[Daniel]

Knee-jerk reactions are very common, like the knee-jerk calls for canopies on open cockpit cars after Dan Weldon's tragic accident, and calls to put a fence between the pit out road and the track at the Lausitzring after Alex Zanardi's costly pit out driving error.

See I disagree about canopies. You have Massa's accident, Surtees, Wheldon's accident (though tbh I don't think a canopy would have helped) and the recent near miss for Alonso when Perez's tyre went. Personally I'd be happier if the wheels were enclosed too.

The difference with camera men and canopies is this, we don't really need camera men in the pitlane.... knee jerk reaction or not, it's no massive loss, but we need drivers in the cars, so why don't we protect them?

[airshifter]

Plenty of ways to keep cameras out of the way. Remote cameras could do just fine for pit action.

Being that the real issue overall is safety....

Why not some type of pit kill switch for the car? If they could have stopped him as he was waved off, chances are lower a tire ever comes off like that. In the past we've seen some make it onto (or near) the track and then have the tire come off. Surely the team would rather stop it in the pits and have a chance to push it back?

[SGWilko]

See I disagree about canopies. You have Massa's accident, Surtees, Wheldon's accident (though tbh I don't think a canopy would have helped) and the recent near miss for Alonso when Perez's tyre went. Personally I'd be happier if the wheels were enclosed too.

The difference with camera men and canopies is this, we don't really need camera men in the pitlane.... knee jerk reaction or not, it's no massive loss, but we need drivers in the cars, so why don't we protect them?

Fair point. Reflecting back to Senna's accident, I think that was so freak that even a canopy could have been pierced by the suspension....

[Nem14]

I don't think a canopy would have prevented Henri Surtees' injuries.

No doubt, Massa's incident likely would have been different if the car had had a canopy.

Note that 2 recent driver deaths (Allan Simonsen, Andrea Mame) were in closed cockpit cars, a 3rd (Jason Leffler) was in an open cockpit car that had a full roll cage, AND the driver was wearing a head and neck restraint system.

Canopies introduce a whole new range of safety issues:
Driver extraction, canopy melting temperature in a fire, resistance to abrasion if a car is sliding upside down, etc.

Then there are the more practical considerations.
Even with an open cockpit the driver gets hot from the physical exertion of driving a race car.
After having done laps at speed, drivers have pulled into the pits, un-zipped their drivers suits and have had inside the suit temperatures of 140+° recorded.
Imagine what that would be without the air flow from an open cockpit.

The weight of a canopy and it's mounting hardware would be high on the chassis, negatively affecting the car's CoG.
Another concern is aerodynamic, particularly if a car gets sideways at speed. From the side, the curve and area of a canopy may make the car unstable (like airborne).

Massa's accident happened 4 years ago. F1 cars do not have canopies today. You might wonder why if they are the panacea many think they are.

The FIA did a canopy test, but that test took place 3 years and 3 months after Massa's incident.
The jet aircraft canopy the FIA tested was several times longer than the cockpit opening of any current formula car.

[webberf1]

So basically, all us viewers are losing out because Red Bull forget how to put wheels on cars whenever Mark Webber has Vettel under the pump.

Brilliant knee-jerk reaction.

[vhatever]

So basically, all us viewers are losing out because Red Bull forget how to put wheels on cars whenever Mark Webber has Vettel under the pump.

Brilliant knee-jerk reaction.


Indeed. They are only banning them because they don't want to show redbull sabotaging webbos car. The whole danger thing is a total farce. they should just go ahead and call themselves the VIA.

[Whyzars]

So basically, all us viewers are losing out because Red Bull forget how to put wheels on cars whenever Mark Webber has Vettel under the pump.

Brilliant knee-jerk reaction.


Yep, brilliant and geniuses. Its an insurance thang I guess. We will all eventually be banned from venturing outside when its raining but that is the way of the world these days.


Of concern also is that a fine has been issued for the journo having a tyre mounted between his shoulder blades with no drive-through incurred or even any sanction affecting the current race. If they follow the monetary penalty course with speeding in the pits, the admin's will lose control as the benefit far outweighs the risks.

Why have racer stewards if they're only going to make sure nobody jumps the start? I would be screaming down the pit lane at 300+ until they make the pit penalty appropriate. Unsafe releases - they should all be doing it now.


P.S. Pit lane speeds don't need changing. The problem is that they've banned re-fueling and made tyre changes a rush-rush affair. No doubt they'll slow the tyre changes by making the mech warriors do it blindfolded or something equally crass. Brilliant knee jerk reaction's indeed...

[Daniel]

Fair point. Reflecting back to Senna's accident, I think that was so freak that even a canopy could have been pierced by the suspension....

It's quite possible, but it would have been that bit more protection.

[Daniel]

I don't think a canopy would have prevented Henri Surtees' injuries.

No doubt, Massa's incident likely would have been different if the car had had a canopy.

Note that 2 recent driver deaths (Allan Simonsen, Andrea Mame) were in closed cockpit cars, a 3rd (Jason Leffler) was in an open cockpit car that had a full roll cage, AND the driver was wearing a head and neck restraint system.

Canopies introduce a whole new range of safety issues:
Driver extraction, canopy melting temperature in a fire, resistance to abrasion if a car is sliding upside down, etc.

Then there are the more practical considerations.
Even with an open cockpit the driver gets hot from the physical exertion of driving a race car.
After having done laps at speed, drivers have pulled into the pits, un-zipped their drivers suits and have had inside the suit temperatures of 140+° recorded.
Imagine what that would be without the air flow from an open cockpit.

The weight of a canopy and it's mounting hardware would be high on the chassis, negatively affecting the car's CoG.
Another concern is aerodynamic, particularly if a car gets sideways at speed. From the side, the curve and area of a canopy may make the car unstable (like airborne).

Massa's accident happened 4 years ago. F1 cars do not have canopies today. You might wonder why if they are the panacea many think they are.

The FIA did a canopy test, but that test took place 3 years and 3 months after Massa's incident.
The jet aircraft canopy the FIA tested was several times longer than the cockpit opening of any current formula car.

The jet canopy test was a proof of concept test, it wasn't a test of the solution they were/are going to adopt, if the jet fighter canopy hadn't performed well, then they would have known that canopies are of no use at all. You completely miss the point of a proof of concept test.

I think that you overstate the possible complications of a canopy, firstly if there is a fire that a driver couldn't get out of on their own, then the best thing is for them to be isolated from the fire by a canopy, if the car is upside down then they weren't getting out of the car anyway without assistance. Resistance to abrasion? :rotflmao: A canopy would do a better job that a drivers head, that's for sure.

Yeah, drivers get hot in cars, no surprise there, which in touring cars for instance, the drivers have a fresh air feed ducted to their helmets. This is F1, if next year Bernie said that cars should do a complete loop in the tunnel in Monaco then the engineers would find a way of doing it and doing it safely. I have no doubts that they could cool a driver in the cockpit of an F1 car, it's not like the driver gets that much airflow over their body anyway, the engineers make sure of that as it would create drag.

Why would a canopy have certainly not prevented Henry Surtees' injuries? Even the less ideal open top windscreen deflects the tyre COMPLETELY away from where the drivers head would be, the canopy does a far better job.

FIA Institute canopy test - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upqcj296l6w)

F1 loves knee jerk reactions, If Massa had been killed or permanently brain damaged then we may have seen changes made, sadly F1 has a history of needing people to die before instituting changes.

I'm not familiar with Mame's accident, but Simonsen's accident wouldn't have ended well in an F1 car either, F1 cars would probably perform even worse when hitting something small, hard and immovable like a tree.

[Tazio]

Love them or hate them the newish tracks don't have the risk of a relatively small abutment murdering a pilot nearly to death, like the old imola, Spa , Nurbergring or the like :bulb:

[dj_bytedisaster]

I'm with Daniel here. A canopy could have saved Surtees and even Senna. Remember - a piece of suspension pierced his helmet and then his head. With a canopy it would have had to pierce that first, dissipating a lot of energy. There is a good chance that it would have been enough to prevent it from piercing the helmet. Same goes for the Massa accident.

The only case in which a canopy would be more dangerous would be, if there was a fire inside the cockpit. But even in that case you could still come up with a solution that 'detonates' the canopy off, like it is done on fighter planes when die pilot ejects. The downside of that solution - where does it fly? Into the stands?

[Whyzars]

I'm with Daniel here. A canopy could have saved Surtees and even Senna.


Save Senna maybe, lose Lauda definitely.

My feeling is that they will go driverless before they go with canopies. :)

[Daniel]

Save Senna maybe, lose Lauda definitely.

My feeling is that they will go driverless before they go with canopies. :)

Ummm OK, tell me why Lauda would have died? As it was (without a canopy) he got burnt up quite badly and almost died. You do realise the canopy would have kept the flames away from him right?

I hate to say a canopy would have saved/killed x fo shizzle unless there is evidence to suggest that it's a near certainty.

Senna saved by a canopy? Maybe
Surtees saved by a canopy? Almost certainly, the FIA test backs this up.
Lauda killed/injuries reduced by a canopy? Could be either, we don't know either way, personally I don't see how it would have made it worse.....
Massa's injuries reduced/eliminated by a canopy? Almost certainly
Dan Wheldon saved by a canopy? I have to say that I doubt it tbh, the car essentially got grated by the fence, we're talking about a bloody heavy object (the car) hitting a fairly immovable object (the safety fence attached to the earth) no matter how strong a canopy is, it's always going to struggle with something like that.

The physics of a wheel or a spring or blown tyre hitting a canopy are far more favourable though.

Canopies for pit lane reporters perhaps? *strokes chin*

[SGWilko]

fo shizzle

I recall 'Slick Vic' from Big Brother (when it used to be reasonably entertaining) using the phrase 'shizzle my nizzle', but WTC does 'fo shizzle' mean???

[Whyzars]

Ummm OK, tell me why Lauda would have died? As it was (without a canopy) he got burnt up quite badly and almost died. You do realise the canopy would have kept the flames away from him right?

A terrible incident and one that went on an on. You are thinking flames but asphyxiation is what came primarily to my mind. It was in response to another poster and I thought it was in context.



I hate to say a canopy would have saved/killed x fo shizzle unless there is evidence to suggest that it's a near certainty.



The entire purpose of a canopy/no canopy discussion is safety. I would like to think that they were never being considered for aero advantage.

The whole canopy idea is dead in my opinion and I can't accept that they were ever seriously considered. I keep getting mental images of the "Homer" doing 300km/h.

If they are determined to wrap drivers in cotton wool then slow the cars down to 100km/h and make them race on pushbike tyres - has the added advantage of not hurting pit lane reporters when they get hit by one.




Canopies for pit lane reporters perhaps? *strokes chin*

Now, that would work... ;)

[Nem14]

The upper part of Niki Lauda's head got burnt because his helmet came off during one of the multiple collisions involved in his accident.
Niki Lauda's main medical issue was the searing heat and smoke he inhaled, not the burns to his head.

Again, closed cockpit drivers continue to receive lethal injuries.

Canopies on open cockpit cars create more safety issues than they solve.

[Daniel]

The upper part of Niki Lauda's head got burnt because his helmet came off during one of the multiple collisions involved in his accident.
Niki Lauda's main medical issue was the searing heat and smoke he inhaled, not the burns to his head.

Again, closed cockpit drivers continue to receive lethal injuries.

Canopies on open cockpit cars create more safety issues than they solve.

Lets dissect this post.....

1) If you have the canopy separating the driver from the fire or at least reducing the intensity, then I don't see how it would have made Lauda's injuries worse. I'm sorry but I do not follow this at all, it's a nonsensical argument.

2) If you're talking about Simonsen, an F1 car against armco which was more or less against a tree would have fared just as bad. The issue here with drivers in GT cars getting killed has nothing to do with the fact that their cars are closed cockpit cars is it? F1 cars are tremendously strong, stronger than GT cars, if we want to talk like for like, what about P1 prototypes?

McNish

http://www.blogcdn.com/cars.aol.co.uk/media/2011/06/crash-5.jpg
Rockenfeller
http://www.sport1.de/media/_redaktion/sportarten/motorsport/sonstiges_1/rockenfeller_mans_crash_5x4_Diashow.jpg

Two mahooooooooooosive accidents in cars which have a similar standard of crash resistance to Formula 1 cars with them both being carbon fibre tubbed cars designed to shed bits and reduce the energy involved. That said, if an F1 car or one of the P1 prototypes had hit that tree reinforced armco at tertre rouge then it could well have been curtains for the driver in that car too. If we want to be silly and talk about open cockpit drivers you only need to look at Dan Wheldon and Henry Surtees to know that people can die in open cockpit cars also..... Just because people die in closed cockpit cars doesn't mean that it's the open cockpit nature of F1 cars is what makes them safe. That's spurious reasoning at its best!

3) How so? People always talk about extricating a driver in an upside down F1 car...... have you ever seen someone get out of an inverted open wheel car without a shedload of assistance?