Personal insults

[Mark]

Please cut out the personal attacks. Even if you think the person you are attacking somehow 'deserves' it, if you post a personal attack you are damaging the forum. So stop.

And regards to the reply you are about to post - think....

[Tazio]

think....
http://i.imgur.com/JiEtt8g.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/hv9ul3.gif :dork: :s ailor: :grenade:

[Knock-on]

Mark

I have restrained from replying to our resident Troll recently but when someone comes on just to insult members, drivers and is intent on being purposely negative, people will respond in kind.

Ban Trolls or live with the aftermath. I don't care either way but its silly to moan about it when the situation is allowed to perpetuate. We've both been here too long not to know this.

Besides, a good war might spice things up a bit :devil: :laugh:

[Mark]

Mark

I have restrained from replying to our resident Troll recently but when someone comes on just to insult members, drivers and is intent on being purposely negative, people will respond in kind.

Ban Trolls or live with the aftermath. I don't care either way but its silly to moan about it when the situation is allowed to perpetuate. We've both been here too long not to know this.

Besides, a good war might spice things up a bit :devil: :laugh:


When you have a thread which has a dozen off topic replies before I even get to it, it becomes impossible to sort out the mess.

[Bagwan]

Mark

I have restrained from replying to our resident Troll recently but when someone comes on just to insult members, drivers and is intent on being purposely negative, people will respond in kind.

Ban Trolls or live with the aftermath. I don't care either way but its silly to moan about it when the situation is allowed to perpetuate. We've both been here too long not to know this.

Besides, a good war might spice things up a bit :devil: :laugh:

So , Knockie , Marks asks you to stop and your answer is no ?

Think , indeed .

[henners88]

I'm with knock-on in regards to the problem. I haven't resorted to giving personal insults to the problem yet, but I think it brings the forum down having an individual who is so rude and disrespectful towards nearly every member. The best option would be for everybody to put them on the ignore list, but how many are realistically going to do that? It's obvious this previously banned member will keep coming back no matter what, so I suppose its up to the rest of us not to bite. Easier said than done though.

[steveaki13]

I always wonder generally why people cant post in a more friendly way.

Fine disagree, but there isn't always the need to grind your fellow poster into the ground. I think all of us have done that at some point which shouldnt be.

However when a poster is so aggressive all of the time its hard to leave alone or reply with reasoned arguement when the response is constantly that slamming posters or drivers.

[dj_bytedisaster]

The question here is, why is this allowed to go on for so long? It wasn't a phenomenon that popped up yesterday. That person did that consistently for at least 10 days and no moderator did anything. Other members are (publically) admonished, but a rude person picking fights on purpose is simply ignored by the mods. It's hard to keep patient in such a case.

[Bagwan]

You know , I've seen a lot of posters come and go on this site , and many of those we've lost have had real value , in terms of knowledge .
Some of them have been very rude indeed , but often , that rudeness has been in response to a flip comment or a "piling on" for a particular driver the poster likes .

It's often a devil's advocate position that I take when anyone is picked on , and the last few days have been a little like that , I'm afraid to say .

That Lewis was being a little schizophrenic in a few comments lately was a fair comment , but it was met with a pretty nasty reception .
I was going to enter that fray , but sadly it was closed before I could .

I've been here more than a dozen years now and so far I've never managed to find myself banned .
There's no big secret to it .
Just , don't be a jerk .
And , don't respond in kind to a jerk , but rather , with reasoned response .

If you make a well reasoned argument , and then add an unfavourable nick-name to the mix , the well reasoned argument is often missed entirely .
That really pi$$es me off , but i'm not pissed at the responder , I'm mad at myself for not making myself clear enough to be understood .

If I am going to bother making any response to a thread , I want it understood .

[AndyL]

I'm with knock-on in regards to the problem. I haven't resorted to giving personal insults to the problem yet, but I think it brings the forum down having an individual who is so rude and disrespectful towards nearly every member. The best option would be for everybody to put them on the ignore list, but how many are realistically going to do that? It's obvious this previously banned member will keep coming back no matter what, so I suppose its up to the rest of us not to bite. Easier said than done though.

It takes less time to enable the ignore function than to pen even one reply!

As someone once said: "Never argue with an idiot. They pull you down to their level, then beat you with experience."

Or alternatively, Proverbs 26:4:
"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him."
It seems Solomon anticipated the internet :)

[henners88]

Right, I've taken the step and added the poster who the majority of us have had an issue with to my ignore list. Is anyone else willing to do this? I feel it's the only solution to this problem. This poster can carry on disrespecting drivers they dislike and insulting posters and we can have the bliss of ignorance. This way their posts will be left exposed for what they are. A discussion can get very quiet if nobody is taking the bait. That's all I have to say on this now, back to the real reason I am here, discussing Formula One.

[jens]

Mark

I have restrained from replying to our resident Troll recently but when someone comes on just to insult members, drivers and is intent on being purposely negative, people will respond in kind.

Ban Trolls or live with the aftermath. I don't care either way but its silly to moan about it when the situation is allowed to perpetuate. We've both been here too long not to know this.

Besides, a good war might spice things up a bit :devil: :laugh:

I beg to disagree actually. If you like a "good war", you can't actually complain about "trolls". :) However, I think it is good to concentrate the energy on the good and important stuff.

The so-called "trolls" would disappear or "civilize" if they do not have anyone to bait. I mean even in forums the general culture is what creates the athmosphere for newcomers. If we all have a cultural discussion, a single negative person would arrive and would have to adapt to what is here. If a "troll" can bait others and ruin discussions, then we ourselves - the posters - are also responsible for the outcome.

By the way, there is a good pedagogical saying - children are exactly who we are as examples. So if we concentrate on ourselves being good examples, they will get inspired from it and learn from it. So the level of the forum is dependent on us, who we are and what is our mindset. If our mindset is a good discussion regardless of what is happenind around, forum is a place for a good discussion. You can't help everyone, there are always problems in forums like there are always problems in the society. Banning isn't the ultimate solution - you ban one, after some time another emerges. And so it goes on as always. Ultimate solution is our mindset.

A bit of a philosophical stuff, but I have found this attitude to have a good effect in life. :)

P.S. The ignore list function is a good recommendation. This means you can create a more likable athmosphere for yourself instead of getting bothered about things, which do not or shouldn't matter for you.

[christophulus]

Just keep on scrolling. This is the advantage of a forum versus a spoken conversation - if you don't like something don't reply. Just act like it isn't there!

[Zico]

Right, I've taken the step and added the poster who the majority of us have had an issue with to my ignore list. Is anyone else willing to do this? I feel it's the only solution to this problem. This poster can carry on disrespecting drivers they dislike and insulting posters and we can have the bliss of ignorance. This way their posts will be left exposed for what they are. A discussion can get very quiet if nobody is taking the bait. That's all I have to say on this now, back to the real reason I am here, discussing Formula One.

Good call. To make this work we all need to do it though, +1.. I'm in!

[Knock-on]

@ Baggy's first post.

That wasn't what I wrote at all but thanks for misquoting me :)

If you genuinely think my feedback to Mark suggests I was ignoring what he asked, then I politely ask you to reread my post.

@ Henners.

+1. Will also just add him to the ignore list. He's really not worth discussing so I will leave this thread there :)

[Daniel]

Mark

I have restrained from replying to our resident Troll recently but when someone comes on just to insult members, drivers and is intent on being purposely negative, people will respond in kind.

Ban Trolls or live with the aftermath. I don't care either way but its silly to moan about it when the situation is allowed to perpetuate. We've both been here too long not to know this.

Besides, a good war might spice things up a bit :devil: :laugh:

I say this with all due respect (admittedly not much), but sometimes it is you that's the troll :) Tbh you're one of the main reasons I don't visit this place all that often, others with differing opinions manage to differ with others in a fairly jovial manner whereas you yourself choose to be prickly. Mark has come out and clearly said that it's wrong to insult people and you merely respond saying that you're going to disobey him and appear to try and blackmail Mark into banning people who you don't like because them's the consequences if he doesn't ban them.

Sometimes the forum can be a little (or a lot) cliquey and as such some people are allowed to get away with treating others in a less than respectful manner as long as they don't say **** or **** or ****hole or something that's outwardly nasty.

I'd like to think that with the fact that i used to come here a lot and have posted nearly 40,000 times and no longer come here all that often, that my opinion might count for something. Anyone who knows me knows I still have spare time, I just choose not to spend it on this forum, plain and simple.

[Knock-on]

I will reply to this as its directed at me.

Personally I think you are a bit thin skinned Daniel. You like to dish it out but struggle when people come back at you. I have had similar discussions with Ben, DJ and ioan and over time come to appreciate their points of view and although I may not agree all the time, I respect their opinion.

Unfortunately, we never got to that point and I am sorry but wish you well with whatever your spare time occupies.

I don't know how how many posts I have or how long I have been here but this post is worth as much or as little as anyone's first post which we all did. That's the point of the forum.

[Daniel]

I will reply to this as its directed at me.

Personally I think you are a bit thin skinned Daniel. You like to dish it out but struggle when people come back at you. I have had similar discussions with Ben, DJ and ioan and over time come to appreciate their points of view and although I may not agree all the time, I respect their opinion.

Unfortunately, we never got to that point and I am sorry but wish you well with whatever your spare time occupies.

I don't know how how many posts I have or how long I have been here but this post is worth as much or as little as anyone's first post which we all did. That's the point of the forum.

I deal with far worse on other forums most days. It doesn't bother me tbh.

Personally I don't think you're "sorry", you just like to make a lot of noise and shout your opinion out. If that involves others leaving then I somehow doubt that bothers you one bit.

I think this thread is a great indication of the harm you do to this forum with your attitude and the fact that you don't have the forums needs at heart, Mark quite rightly said that people need to stop with name calling and rather than simply say "OK Mark", you come out and say that you'll do it, but only if he bans the trolls. So basically you'll play nicely, but only if Mark removes the people you perceive to be trolls. It may be hypocrisy to point this out because I don't always behave myself, but surely we should all endeavour to behave ourselves regardless of whether we like other people or think that they're trolls.

[TheFamousEccles]

Henners, +1. i I had no idea that facility existed.

[vhatever]

I think the issues here are multifaceted and cannot be reduced to one simple point, But it's not too difficult to understand by an impartial observer the issues at play. There are plenty of people in the world who don't like to face the truth, or at the very least don't like people poking holes in the version of the truth they hold dear.

A great example was when a topic had shifted to talking about Schumacher and his supposed traction control. Of course, the real truth was he was never found to have any traction control. They found merely the source code for a launch control. Additionally, not only could they not prove that it had been used at some point, it was their expert opinion that the code had never actually been used in the race at all. This truth is an anathema to the the incredibly jingoistic British media's narrative on the career of Schumacher. So instead of actually making factual/logical points of argument, the truth was greeted with little more than a chorus of personal attacks and non-sequiturs. They had no real argument when their holy cow was assailed, so all they could do is revert to throwing sticks and stones. The net result is, I'm an idiot/troll because I tell the truth with supporting, factual evidence.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I deal with far worse on other forums most days. It doesn't bother me tbh.

Personally I don't think you're "sorry", you just like to make a lot of noise and shout your opinion out. If that involves others leaving then I somehow doubt that bothers you one bit.

I think this thread is a great indication of the harm you do to this forum with your attitude and the fact that you don't have the forums needs at heart, Mark quite rightly said that people need to stop with name calling and rather than simply say "OK Mark", you come out and say that you'll do it, but only if he bans the trolls. So basically you'll play nicely, but only if Mark removes the people you perceive to be trolls. It may be hypocrisy to point this out because I don't always behave myself, but surely we should all endeavour to behave ourselves regardless of whether we like other people or think that they're trolls.

Sorry, Daniel, but Mark & Knock-On never did any harm to this forum. KnO is one of the members I value the most. Knock-on, Henners and SGWilco - we often disagree - but they are three members I know I can lock horns with without anyone resorting to foul language. :)

[truefan72]

Good call. To make this work we all need to do it though, +1.. I'm in!

way ahead of you guys, that "poster"has been on my IList for a while now
:up:

[dj_bytedisaster]

Good call. To make this work we all need to do it though, +1.. I'm in!

I think most of us should have him on ignore by now...

[vhatever]

Sorry, Daniel, but Mark & Knock-On never did any harm to this forum. KnO is one of the members I value the most. Knock-on, Henners and SGWilco - we often disagree - but they are three members I know I can lock horns with without anyone resorting to foul language. :)

Where did this Daniel poster ever say mark did something to harm the forum? He was referring to knock-on's oh-so-predictable veiled threat. If the mods here were fair and impartial, you and Knock-on would have been on a long vacation by now. That's one of the underlying "issues" here as well.

[Bagwan]

@ Baggy's first post.

That wasn't what I wrote at all but thanks for misquoting me :)

If you genuinely think my feedback to Mark suggests I was ignoring what he asked, then I politely ask you to reread my post.


I've read it , Knock , and you saying no is how it reads to me .
In fact , it really doesn't seem to leave any room for misinterpretation at all . It seems rather clear .


It all breaks into friggin war all the time if someone doesn't stop .

Our friend who owns this forum has asked us to be a little more respectful towards other posters .
I would very politely ask that you please re-read his post .



As for the ignore button , I would never use nor suggest it's use , unless one absolutely cannot control oneself .
And , I mean that , in the kindest way .
What I mean to say is that , frankly , some of the most opinionated , and hard-a$$ed obnoxious of the posters that have swung through here over the years have come with some great insight , and , at times technical expertise , and I wouldn't have wanted to miss a single post , despite things getting a bit rough now and then .


And , that's where this comes back around to you , Knock .

The banter can be fun , and maybe that's what you were trying to say initially .
But the point is that we need to settle it down a little .

Dad's getting testy having to watch the sandbox so closely all the time .

[Knock-on]

1. I said I was not responding to this poster.

2. I said if people troll on here, people naturally respond.

3. I made a flippant comment about comments made recently about the forum being a bit quied and posted a :devil: and :laugh: to point out I was being humorous a out it.

If you choose to interpret my post in any other way than I have clarified then that's your choice. People on this thread have claimed I am some sort of bully responsible for forcing them off on here. I wholly refute this and ask them to point out posts where I have but won't hold my breath. However, I expect half the problem is when people purposely misinterpret a post and then when the originator reclarifies the meaning, they refuse to accept this at face value and carry on with their claims.

[jens]

Thanks for the feedback.

Vhatever, I have to say that your post in this very thread is one of the best I have seen from you. I can actually answer to it as it doesn't contain overly aggressive wording. But what I have to tell (and not only to you, but others as well) is that the truth is relative. By this I mean every person has their own interpretation about 'truth'. Our everyday lives are different, our life experience has been different, we are all from different cultures as well. Life has taught all of us in a different way. So the best we can do is to try to understand others. If we travel to a foreign country, we can certainly recognize a different mindset about some things. Well, this is natural, it is good - a different perspective and nothing to be critical about.

Furthermore a lot depends, how well do we get the point across. If you wanted to make a claim about Benetton's LC/TC, then you can concentrate specifically about that point only and leave out British media, because the latter doesn't mean anything in this context. In fact, it doesn't add to the argument. If you'd like to discuss about the impartiality of media, you can create a separate thread about it. But then we need to be careful not to get lost there, because media can be impartial anywhere in the world and many people can find examples of that.

Knock-On. I have to admit you have been prone to forgetting to concentrate about the point we are discussing about, and you start making comments about the posters in question instead. You want an example. I can just randomly find and give you one, For example from the Vettel thread:


:laugh: I love you man. You must really love this stupidity to keep coming back and behaving like this. Please don't get banned again too soon as you crack me up. :laugh:

An example of making a personal attack/comment and saying things, which do not matter at all in the context of discussion. If anything, it bites the other person to actually reply, because he as a person is under discussion.

[henners88]

I have to add that I think a few are missing a very important point here. This isn't a new problem and the individual in question is someone who has been posting for the past 8 years. Those of us who have clashed with him lately have experience of dealing with him for many years now. They have been banned more times than any of us and this has also occurred on other motorsport forums I can tell you. I've experienced threats via PM and in one bizarre case they joined another forum under the username 'henners88'. The intent there was to become racist and abusive to other members with what I can only presume was a case of hoping to give a negative impression to anybody who recognised my username from here. I have a list as long as my arm regarding some of the nasty experiences concerning this person and have been pursued. I don't believe they come here purely to discuss F1 and feel it has somehow become a hobby to join under random usernames and seek reactions from posters they are familiar with. They asked Mark to remove their original profile from the forum back in 2010, and since then have come back with more profiles than I can count on my hands. That is the real issue here. I'm sure this thread offers much enjoyment to them too knowing they have stirred things up.

It goes far beyond having a heated disagreement of a forum for goodness sake. Technical input is very welcome and if it far outweighed the negativity, I'm sure most of us could look past it. As Dj said earlier, some of us often disagree with each other and it gets heated from time to time, but I fully respect them and their opinion. Isn't that what a forum is all about? If we all agreed all the time it would be very very boring. Unfortunately you get some who take it too far and get far too personal about it. This is supposed to be an enjoyable pass time and for the most part it is.

I feel I have tackled the problem in my own way now in the form of the ignore function. It is there for a reason and I don't feel there is any shame in using it. If this person is then banned yet again, I will use the function as soon as I recognise their new name. Glad to see others are taking a stand too. It makes the whole experience far more positive. :)

[pino]

The biggest problem here isn't the return of the banned member as many pointed out, it's the attitude of a 5/6 members who are posting personal comments/insults in almost every threads. Now if those members had read at list once, my sticky thread on top page, we wouldn't have had all these issues and this thread wouldn't even exist. So how we going to solve this ? easy, either you guys change your attitude or I will start to give 3 infractions points for every off-topic post with personal comments. And once again remember that, none forces you to read, and reply to each thread/post, posted in here.

[Bezza]

Absolutely well said Mark. :up:

Far too many threads are being spoilt at the moment by a very small minority of people who are trolling, looking for attention, and it is the usual suspects as always.

You would get a lot more involvement and grow the community more if these trolls were removed permanently from the forum. Difficult I know, but thats my two-pennysworth.

I frequently disagree with BDunnell over on the Chit Chat forum but I highly respect him as you can't argue with his backed-up opinions. Those are the type of debates I like to be involved with. The ones on the F1 forum descend rapidly into farce sadly, sometimes when they have started off strongly which is a real shame.

[henners88]

Maybe a few of us should disappear then. Fair enough.

[pino]

Maybe a few of us should disappear then. Fair enough.

No need for that, just use the ignore button and let the Mods take care of the problem :)

[vhatever]

The biggest problem here isn't the return of the banned member

What "formerly banned" member are you referring to?

[pino]

What "formerly banned" member are you referring to?

You know it very well...

[vhatever]

You know it very well...


uhh, so, mark, you obviously got problems here much deeper than you realize.

[Daniel]

1. I said I was not responding to this poster.

2. I said if people troll on here, people naturally respond.

3. I made a flippant comment about comments made recently about the forum being a bit quied and posted a :devil: and :laugh: to point out I was being humorous a out it.

If you choose to interpret my post in any other way than I have clarified then that's your choice. People on this thread have claimed I am some sort of bully responsible for forcing them off on here. I wholly refute this and ask them to point out posts where I have but won't hold my breath. However, I expect half the problem is when people purposely misinterpret a post and then when the originator reclarifies the meaning, they refuse to accept this at face value and carry on with their claims.

What a load of crap. I can't actually remember a thread title, but in the last couple of years there have been multiple cases where I have stated opinion X, then been criticised by yourself and others for holding opinion y, when I point out that i was actually saying x, then you choose to willfully ignore this because it means that you can't criticise me and would have to apologise.

I'm not here to blindly support friends or beat others down, I've met Pino a couple of times and he's a great guy, but if he says something that I don't agree with then I'll say something about it. I think a lot of posters on here tend to concentrate on the poster and not what the poster actually says. Sometimes people are allowed to say some pretty horrid things, I've been accused numerous times by one particular poster of being racist because I don't like Lewis Hamilton as much as others, now if I saw someone else being accused of that and they didn't deserve it, there'd by ****ing hell to pay, you don't say that about someone unless you can say for certain that they're racist. But because I'm not part of the clique, that poster is allowed to get away with it.

Why would you stick around when that sort of thing happens?

[henners88]

Who are the clique here? Its been mentioned twice now and seeing as I've been here 5 years now and not noticed it, perhaps it could be pointed out? Maybe a PM instead of ruining the thread.

[pino]

I too would like to know who's part of that clique :confused:

[vhatever]

I too would like to know who's part of that clique :confused:

I'd like to know who you claim I am.

[Daniel]

Sorry, Daniel, but Mark & Knock-On never did any harm to this forum. KnO is one of the members I value the most. Knock-on, Henners and SGWilco - we often disagree - but they are three members I know I can lock horns with without anyone resorting to foul language. :)

This is what i don't get, someone claims that i've said something that I CLEARLY didn't say, and someone ends up liking their post!?!?!? I don't get this, I NEVER said that Mark does any harm to this forum, my barrels were squarely aimed at Knock On!

[henners88]

This is what i don't get, someone claims that i've said something that I CLEARLY didn't say, and someone ends up liking their post!?!?!? I don't get this, I NEVER said that Mark does any harm to this forum, my barrels were squarely aimed at Knock On!
I liked his post because I agreed with the sentiment of being able to disagree with people but remain respectful. It was worthy of a 'like' IMHO. As far as your issue with Knock-on is concerned, as an observer I would say you both give as good as you get in debates but you both react very differently too. You seem a lot more sensitive Daniel when your opinion is challenged, but we are who we are. Not everyone is the same. There is no need to quit a forum because someone doesn't agree with you. This is what a discussion is all about for me, and I expect opinions to be challenged. The banter often goes too far at times and perhaps 'we' all need to take a bit more control. :)

[Daniel]

I liked his post because I agreed with the sentiment of being able to disagree with people but remain respectful. It was worthy of a 'like' IMHO. As far as your issue with Knock-on is concerned, as an observer I would say you both give as good as you get in debates but you both react very differently too. You seem a lot more sensitive Daniel when your opinion is challenged, but we are who we are. Not everyone is the same. There is no need to quit a forum because someone doesn't agree with you. This is what a discussion is all about for me, and I expect opinions to be challenged. The banter often goes too far at times and perhaps 'we' all need to take a bit more control. :)

People tend to be sensitive when they get accused of being a racist and no one else bothers to say anything.....

[The Black Knight]

I must say I find this thread somewhat amusing. Sorry ;)


The whole he said this and you said that. It reminds me of mind kindergarten days.

Carry on.

[The Black Knight]

People tend to be sensitive when they get accused of being a racist and no one else bothers to say anything.....

Man, honestly, why do you care? Let them accuse you all you want. As long as you know you're not a racist yourself, why does it bother you what some idiot on a forum says?

[henners88]

People tend to be sensitive when they get accused of being a racist and no one else bothers to say anything.....
I didn't witness that Daniel so can't offer an explanation as to why you were not defended etc etc. My reference to you being sensitive was my impression of you over many threads, not just one instance. We've discussed everything from tyres, canopies to mobile phones over the past few years and its all generated a bit of heat in the debate. We build impressions of each other over time I suppose. Its no bad thing though. :)

[vhatever]

Man, honestly, why do you care? Let them accuse you all you want. As long as you know you're not a racist yourself, why does it bother you what some idiot on a forum says?


You could say that of pretty much any personal attack, which would fly in the face of mark's initial admonishment. why don't you go ahead and quote him and tell how no one should care what other people call you.

[Daniel]

You could say that of pretty much any personal attack, which would fly in the face of mark's initial admonishment. why don't you go ahead and quote him and tell how no one should care what other people call you.

Absolutely. Personally I find the accusation of racism to be second only to someone actually being a racist. Racism is a horrible horrible thing and should never be tolerated, but to falsely accuse someone of it is pretty poor and lazy IMHO.

[vhatever]

Absolutely. Personally I find the accusation of racism to be second only to someone actually being a racist. Racism is a horrible horrible thing and should never be tolerated, but to falsely accuse someone of it is pretty poor and lazy IMHO.


was this Tamello character a racist? cause maybe i'm one of those too, then.

[Daniel]

was this Tamello character a racist? cause maybe i'm one of those too, then.

I believe the name was Tamburello.

[The Black Knight]

You could say that of pretty much any personal attack, which would fly in the face of mark's initial admonishment. why don't you go ahead and quote him and tell how no one should care what other people call you.

People can call me vhatever they want ;)

Bothers me not my friend!

[vhatever]

People can call me vhatever they want ;)

Bothers me not my friend!



You are talking to the wrong cat. Like i said, tell mark how he should run his forum. dooo eet.

[The Black Knight]

You are talking to the wrong cat. Like i said, tell mark how he should run his forum. dooo eet.

Mark is well capable of running the forum by himself without my opinion. The good thing about this place is that we are entitled to voice our opinion, lest it be derogatory, which is exactly what I just did :s mokin:

[vhatever]

Mark is well capable of running the forum by himself without my opinion. Yep.

The good thing about this place is that we are entitled
Nope.

[Tazio]

Who are the clique here? Its been mentioned twice now and seeing as I've been here 5 years now and not noticed it, perhaps it could be pointed out? Maybe a PM instead of ruining the thread.

"The Anglo-Saxon Mafia" aka "The Anglo-Mafia" ;)

[pino]

There isn't any clique in here and for sure no one gets a better/different treatment by me !

[Knock-on]

Dan. If someone called you a rascist then report them and let the mods deal with it. If there's anything in it, then I'm sure they will take action

[vhatever]

There isn't any clique in here and for sure no one gets a better/different treatment by me !

So how many other people here get accused of being a former banned member by you with absolutely no factual evidence to support your claims?

[Jag_Warrior]

Any chance we could get a :yawn: smilie for the forum?

[vhatever]

Any chance we could get a :yawn: smilie for the forum?


Any chance after 13 years you could figure out how to stay on topic?

[Knock-on]

I agree Jag. It's all getting a bit tedious and I've got a bit bored with it all.

Same old Trolls keep reappearing, wringing members going on like they've been mortally wounded and Mods quoting flippant remarks as some sort of terrible insult.

What a sad shadow of a once vibrant and entertaining forum.

[steveaki13]

Its interesting too see so many here having similar views and idea's on what would be best on the forum and yet hostility still seems in evidence.

I try to be happy and positive to other members in posting replys or to new members.

One major issue I see is some people are never able to admit they are wrong or against general opinion. Instead some seem to just get more and more angry and spiteful the more they are cornered. Surely individuals need to sit back and look at other peoples posts and see that they may be wrong.

[steveaki13]

Man, honestly, why do you care? Let them accuse you all you want. As long as you know you're not a racist yourself, why does it bother you what some idiot on a forum says?

I have to agree. I mean in the end we are here to post for knowledge, ideas and fun. If someone accuses you of something then report it or just ignore it.

Its tough at times but there is no point slating someone back and getting banned or warned.

[Mia 01]

On some F1 forums you make friends among thoose who cheer the same driver or team. Ofcourse the opposition try to belittle your love, that´s natural and you get use to it. But, personal insults are not OK. Something to consider is that this is not your ordinary life. But even so, I have been hurt many times on forums, you tend to take it a little to personal.

According F1, It´s Kimi, may he win another couple of races this year and the WDC next year.

[steveaki13]

Go Kimi. :)

[SGWilko]

Sorry, Daniel, but Mark & Knock-On never did any harm to this forum. KnO is one of the members I value the most. Knock-on, Henners and SGWilco - we often disagree - but they are three members I know I can lock horns with without anyone resorting to foul language. :)

Oh shoot, there goes the neighbourhood! ;)

[webberf1]

Knock On is 100% right on this one. How the hell can the mods not realise that it is the people who keep trolling and/or argue like its a pre-school playground that damage the forum, NOT the people who rightly call them out on being a dumb*ss?
I would definitely post a lot more on this forum if the mods could actually get it right and crack down on things that are actually worthwhile for once.

[Mark]

The problem is that moderators cannot ban people just because they are a bit annoying. As all of you would have been banned at some point. ;)

[SGWilko]

The problem is that moderators cannot ban people just because they are a bit annoying. As all of you would have been banned at some point. ;)

Three strikes would work.

Annoying gets the first strike.

Ignoring the 'please stop being annoying' infraction gets the second.

Carrying on regardless gives a nice break.

Also, displaying IP addresses would help weed out the repeat offenders.

[SGWilko]

I've read it , Knock , and you saying no is how it reads to me .
In fact , it really doesn't seem to leave any room for misinterpretation at all . It seems rather clear .


It all breaks into friggin war all the time if someone doesn't stop .

Our friend who owns this forum has asked us to be a little more respectful towards other posters .
I would very politely ask that you please re-read his post .



As for the ignore button , I would never use nor suggest it's use , unless one absolutely cannot control oneself .
And , I mean that , in the kindest way .
What I mean to say is that , frankly , some of the most opinionated , and hard-a$$ed obnoxious of the posters that have swung through here over the years have come with some great insight , and , at times technical expertise , and I wouldn't have wanted to miss a single post , despite things getting a bit rough now and then .


And , that's where this comes back around to you , Knock .

The banter can be fun , and maybe that's what you were trying to say initially .
But the point is that we need to settle it down a little .

Dad's getting testy having to watch the sandbox so closely all the time .

I remember, many moons ago, you helped me see the light and I apologised to a poster at the time - Tamburello.

Mind you, several months on he declared I was scum, and that was the last of him......

[Mia 01]

Annoying to whom? That´s the Mods job to consider. Lots of people disturb me a bit sometimes, that´s life.

[steveaki13]

Thats the trouble. Even the most "Annoying" posters have some here that agree at times. People have different viewpoints and a troll to one may be the definition of sense to another.

[SGWilko]

Thats the trouble. Even the most "Annoying" posters have some here that agree at times. People have different viewpoints and a troll to one may be the definition of sense to another.

There seems reasonable agreement on this thread as to the annoying culprit....

[The Black Knight]

The problem is that moderators cannot ban people just because they are a bit annoying. As all of you would have been banned at some point. ;)

Just curious but would not a previously banned user returning under a different username be immediate grounds for an automatic ban?

[SGWilko]

Just curious but would not a previously banned user returning under a different username be immediate grounds for an automatic ban?

Maybe not, in order to keep the numbers up?

[DexDexter]

This forum is so quiet these days that for me any discussion is good discussion so insults don't bother me. :)

[The Black Knight]

Maybe not, in order to keep the numbers up?

Yeah maybe. Why is the forum so quiet these days anyway? Two years ago when I joined it was alive with activity.

[pino]

Just curious but would not a previously banned user returning under a different username be immediate grounds for an automatic ban?

You guys have no idea how much work we do to prevent a banned member to return here. The problem is that if a banned member use a different IP to rejoin, then its very difficult for us to prove he's a previously banned member. And without a prove, we cannot ban people.

[pino]

Maybe not, in order to keep the numbers up?

Not in here, and not until I am in charge of this place !

[The Black Knight]

You guys have no idea how much work we do to prevent a banned member to return here. The problem is that if a banned member use a different IP to rejoin, then its very difficult for us to prove he's a previously banned member. And without a prove, we cannot ban people.

That's fair enough. I can appreciate the effort that goes into it. I know I could easily get around a ban were I banned. I'd probably not want to but I could. I was just wondering as from your posts you seemed fairly certain it was the same member.

[SGWilko]

You guys have no idea how much work we do to prevent a banned member to return here. The problem is that if a banned member use a different IP to rejoin, then its very difficult for us to prove he's a previously banned member. And without a prove, we cannot ban people.

That sad they change ISP or use VPN? That's what Roy would call dedication - God rest his soul!

[SGWilko]

Not in here, and not until I am in charge of this place !

I imagine you beating your chest while saying that! ;)

[Daniel]

Dan. If someone called you a rascist then report them and let the mods deal with it. If there's anything in it, then I'm sure they will take action

I also expect some common decency from people on here and sticking together when idiots bandy terms like this around, I wouldn't settle for someone calling you that.

[steveaki13]

There seems reasonable agreement on this thread as to the annoying culprit....

Maybe so, but I have seen a few members agreeing with said member. So it shows not everyone comes from the same viewpoint

[Daniel]

You guys have no idea how much work we do to prevent a banned member to return here. The problem is that if a banned member use a different IP to rejoin, then its very difficult for us to prove he's a previously banned member. And without a prove, we cannot ban people.

No no Pino, let's have a kangaroo court and anyone who is new and seems a little like someone from the past should be banned straight away as long as 3 people agree that it's someone who's been banned, then he/she should be banned.

[The Black Knight]

I also expect some common decency from people on here and sticking together when idiots bandy terms like this around, I wouldn't settle for someone calling you that.

Marcus Aurelius once said:

If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself, but to your expectation of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment."

So maybe you should change your expectations. Just throwing it out there...

[steveaki13]

You guys have no idea how much work we do to prevent a banned member to return here. The problem is that if a banned member use a different IP to rejoin, then its very difficult for us to prove he's a previously banned member. And without a prove, we cannot ban people.

I understand as much as I can.

I mean from your point of view how can you Ban someone with different name, IP and no indication that it is the same person.

I mean we spot typing styles and attitude but ultimately we cannot know for sure. Hence the mods cant justify banning everyone who we claim to be Tamb.

[Mia 01]

Banning people is not that good. If banning someone they have to deserve it for a longer time. And remember, there´s fans all over the world, not only in Brittian. Some seems to think that.

[Daniel]

Marcus Aurelius once said:


So maybe you should change your expectations. Just throwing it out there...

I'm not Marcus Aurelius though.

[D-Type]

It's one thing being a fan with strong views on certain sunbjects or people, it's something else to deliberately try to start an argument. with a provocative post or a series of them.

Shortly after I took on being moderator of the history forum I had a wll-established forum member posting a personal attack on a well known 'old stager'. When I challenged him tojustify the attack he evaded the question and refused to do so. If I knew then what I know now, he would have received a three-week suspension. Fortunately after sabotaging that thread he has never revisited the History forum

[vhatever]

I find this tam character pretty interesting. Sadly, I can only find a smattering off his posts, a scant few quoted by other users, since his own posts appear to be deleted. Google search appears useless in rectifying this, as I couldn't find anything from old cached files, either.

the most I can glean about him was that he had reasonably good grasp of English, didn't much care for lewy hamilton, nor the disgrace of the first world news media, otherwise known as the british media.

I do share all these characteristics with Tam. I also share them with every F1 fan that I personally know of(real life) in the united states, especially those who have watched the sport for over 15+ years, in particular the Schumacher Era. The one exception is a handful of F1 fans, mostly racist individuals, who only began to care about F1 when a black person was doing well in it. This much smaller, much newer to the sport contigent of americans love the British media, for obvious reasons, and lewy himself is the very focal point of their focus on F1 to begin with. As Vettel has clowned Hamilton for years now, I notice a severe drop in these types of fans, returning to the caves whence they came. And thank God.

[Tazio]

racist individuals, who only began to care about F1 when a black person was doing well in it. I notice a severe drop in these types of fans, returning to the caves whence they came. And thank God. That does not sound like something Tamb' would say. :dozey:
Just out of curiosity, what part of the U.S. do ya''awl boys hail from? :colour:

[vhatever]

That does not sound like something Tamb' would say. :dozey:
Just out of curiosity, what part of the U.S. do ya''awl boys hail from? :colour:


Great lakes region, pissing distance from Canada.

[Tazio]

Do any Walleye, and Northern fishing?

[vhatever]

Do any Walleye, and Northern fishing?

A bit here and there over the years. Generally, when I go fishing i hope i don't actually catch anything. Unless it's bluegills. They will never escape my frying pan.

[Tazio]

Sounds like you're up near Bag's neck of the woods. Ask him if he will take you fishing with "Muskee Mike" :s pin:

[vhatever]

Sounds like you're up near Bag's neck of the woods. Ask him if he will take you fishing with "Muskee Mike" :s pin:

That's not code word for "get the cemet boots ready"is it? hah.

Heh. Anyway, i realized something i should have before when I searched his name in google. That's the corner Senna fatefully crashed at. Was he a Senna lover or hater? With that name, I can only imagine one or the other.

[Tazio]

No, I was serious. Bag's is a member who lives in that region (or so he says) Muskie Mike is an accomplished Muskellunge fisherman. I can't remember what your sentiments are about Senna. The name (tamburello) is used because it sounds cool like St. Devote and Eau Rouge, but you knew that. As a general rule trouble makers take the names of GP corners (at least that is what Tamb’ told me in a PM) :dozey:
I knew Tamb’. Tamb’ was a friend of mine. You sir are no Tamb’, or are you? :confused: ;)

[vhatever]

No, I was serious. Bag's is a member who lives in that region (or so he says) Muskie Mike is an accomplished Muskellunge fisherman. I can't remember what your sentiments are about Senna. The name (tamburello) is used because it sounds cool like St. Devote and Eau Rouge, but you knew that. As a general rule trouble makers take the names of GP corners (at least that is what Tamb’ told me in a PM) :dozey:
I knew Tamb’. Tamb’ was a friend of mine. You sir are no Tamb’, or are you? :confused: ;)


He said that? hah. He's deifnitely dumber than I thought. If i were to come here to stir up trouble, i'd probably have taken the name "wrong-button lewy".

[airshifter]

I can't believe this thread is still going on, and such a number of people have decided to use it for.... continued personal insults.

:bomb:

While I completely agree that we as forum members should take the high road and ignore trolls, I do have one thing I'd like to address with Mark and Pino (and any other regular forum mods). This is really not exclusive to the F1 forum but I for one would much rather see mods warn or send someone on vacation vs locking a thread and warning people.

It's far too easy for someone to intentionally "kamikaze" a thread. All it takes is one or two people to bite and feed the trolling, or for the debate to get too heated. Often the people making the thread caustic are those that later cry the loudest about how they were picked on, bullied, whatever.

I thought the entire idea of using infraction points was to give the regular pot stirrers a more frequent vacation if needed? If done on a regular basis it would set an example of what exactly is and is not tolerated on the forums here. As an example, even if nobody is banned, if Mark or a moderator remarks in a thread that "3 members have been given infraction points", every person that didn't get them would also instantly know that the mods did not see them crossing the line. If they did cross that line, they know that as well.


And please don't take this as a complaint, but rather a suggestion I see as constructive. I know it's a PITA being a moderator, been there done that many years ago in a very caustic forum. I've also seen examples of the moderators having a unique log in name for their moderating.... and many if not most of the cries of bias went out the window when that was done. Pino can post as Pino, but Pino could moderate as "Moderator X".

[Mark]

Just curious but would not a previously banned user returning under a different username be immediate grounds for an automatic ban?

Yes; if we can show that they are the returning member. However there have been occasions where members rejoin after an extended time period and we know who they are but give them a chance.

[henners88]

Some returning members are also easier to spot than others. Sentence structures and unusual phrases tend to give them away initially. Their likes and hates are just the obvious sign's along with a recognisable attitude. Sometimes a simple forum search for a particular word for example, highlights threads and posts where it has been used in the past. If the current member and the one you suspect are the most common users, its just one piece of the puzzle. Whether you can be bothered to go to those lengths is questionable of course lol.

Obviously for the mods they need to be able to prove beyond reasonable doubt and coincidence just doesn't cut it. Sometimes its also good to give people a second chance and see if they are taking a different approach with their attitude I suppose.

[SGWilko]

Some returning members are also easier to spot than others. Sentence structures and unusual phrases tend to give them away initially. Their likes and hates are just the obvious sign's along with a recognisable attitude. Sometimes a simple forum search for a particular word for example, highlights threads and posts where it has been used in the past. If the current member and the one you suspect are the most common users, its just one piece of the puzzle. Whether you can be bothered to go to those lengths is questionable of course lol.

Obviously for the mods they need to be able to prove beyond reasonable doubt and coincidence just doesn't cut it. Sometimes its also good to give people a second chance and see if they are taking a different approach with their attitude I suppose.

Recognising them is even easier when they try to distance themselves by justifying how the posts might be similar! If we can spot it, I suspect the mods can too.

[SGWilko]

Yes; if we can show that they are the returning member. However there have been occasions where members rejoin after an extended time period and we know who they are but give them a chance.

And if 'normal service is resumed' do you turn a blind eye? Your gaff, your rules......

[pino]

And if 'normal service is resumed' do you turn a blind eye? Your gaff, your rules......

So far all returned banned members I have spotted, have been banned...and I am not done yet !

[SGWilko]

So far all returned banned members I have spotted, have been banned...and I am not done yet !

You're my hero! :D

[vhatever]

So far all returned banned members I have spotted, have been banned...and I am not done yet !


You saying you've changed your mind, then, or is this just a bit of dissembling?

[Bagwan]

If I may , I'd like to point out that this isn't a democracy here .
It's Mark's forum , and he makes the rules .

That's the way it is .

Finding the balance between tossing and keeping must be a real challenge at times .

In proper debate there are very strict rules , and the way this place spins out sometimes , it's clear that those very tedious rules are in place to keep some of the most obnoxious forms of human behavior in check .

Perhaps all of us could try to think of this all as simply debate , as opposed to argument , and it might help .
I see too many times where a poster will try to , for dramatic effect , add a derogatory nickname , or an off-colour reference to a post , and throw the whole point of the post out the window because the other side of the debate only sees the extra bonus point .
If the point is to debate , then the opposing side must be made to understand your side of the issue . Otherwise , there's no point at all .


A number of times I have plead the case for keeping some of most caustic visitors I've seen over the years I've been here . Pino can attest to that .
In many cases it wasn't a one-way street , and in fact , I felt that they had sometimes been attracted to the forum in the first place because of some of the opinions on here .
They were often here to speak the other side of the debate , but , had a hard time relating it with a gang piling on .


We are very fortunate to have this place .
It isn't a democracy , but I think it's commendable that Mark does run it almost as such .

[N4D13]

I don't like participating in these threads because I think that they don't do much to create a positive atmosphere in the forum. However, when this thread has reached six pages already, there's no helping it.

I'd just like to point out that when someone decides to write rude or very biased posts, I wouldn't answer him/her just to avoid feeding the troll. In the case of rude messages, they'd get an instant report from me. And when someone's trolling is blatant and repetitive, I decide to use the ignore list on their profile. With these people, at first I feel tempted to click on their messages but every time that I do, their posts' content make me remember that I blocked these people for a good reason. I think we'd avoid many pointless discussions if we avoided answering people who are either trolling or making extremely biased and unnecessary remarks.

[markabilly]

I think life is too short to take much of it too seriously. This forum should be fun, with some humor, even at the small expense of others. I grew up where there was always a certain tough guy humor, and if you started whining, let it get under your skin, then you were a thin-skin loser. The trick was to show it don't get to you. Donkey jote is a prime example of someone that we can do that back and forth, Alca(whatever his name is now) is the same. Easy (gee I miss him) was the same..........When the poster in driver of the race for Germany thread, said RFLMA in response to my post, I could have called him a troll, idiot or whatever, but thought, gee, get carried away, and you will ruin the carpet.................................. Now Tamb, and often Ioan, well they often responded differently, took things too seriously at times, and even Pino, so I eventually learned not do it with them. May have something to do with culture, how one is brought up, or how solid you feel about yourself or whatever reason. :D And perhaps most importantly, this is the internet, where words are written and not spoken. So when I write something, you do not get to hear the laughter in my voice or see the smile on my face, :D so someone thinks in response, WHAT!! YOU SORRY***** :mad: and unfortunately I must admit that I have fallen victim to getting too upset as well on occasion--like right now, I started using italic and can not get the computer to stop :mad: oh well.

[donKey jote]

:kiss: :s ailor: :andrea:

[Tazio]

Your missus......both of you :dork: :angel:
Billy's back http://i46.tinypic.com/hv9ul3.gif

[donKey jote]

I miss Easy too :(

[dj_bytedisaster]

For me there are two sides to the medal. Yes, being a moderator is a tough job, but on the other hand nobody forced you to do it. I've been a long-time mod in a gaming forum and the flame-wars of the XBox vs Playstation brigades make our spats in here look like a lover's quarrel. From that time I know that you need a pretty thick skin to do what needs to be done. That's exactly, why I'm not a moderator anymore. I simply don't have the strength of nerves anymore. On the other hand, a moderator can make the job easier for himself by not waiting until things go out of hand.

This very thread is the proof. Things got so heated until Mark found it necessary to post an extra thread about it. I think we can agree that at some point most of us were rather badly annoyed with vhatever to the point that he came under suspicion of being a reborn banned member. Is he - is he not? It doesn't matter. For the last few days his responses have become a lot more sensible and constructive, so in that case I'd say - mission accomplished. But this is a case, where I have a bit of a grievance of how it was handled by the mods. Of ve's first 200 posts about 170 are straight-forward flame bait. Challenging the other member's intelligence and derogatory remarks towards drivers are not a behaviour acceptable for any forum member, much less someone, who just joined. We all say something stupid at times. I one posted drunk and was badly embarrassed when I read my own drivel the next day. An earlier reaction, maybe even a week's timeout could have helped to defuse the situation earlier.

And then there is something we all can do and that is to tone down attacks on drivers and teams. We all are at least partially educated, so we should be able to gauge the potential impact of our posts. I'm not a particular fan of Lewis Hamilton, but I know that posting "Hopefully Hamilton will end up in the wall!" would not only be utterly tasteless, it would also be pure flamebait for the Hamilton fans. That's completely unnecessary and would serve no other purpose than to enrage others. And only because the majority in here is not a fan of Vettel doesn't mean he's free for insulting. If someone like Gary comes on and calls him a "German swine" and is backed up by others who post how much they hope his car breaks down and that he'll crash into the landscape, that's only serving to enraging the few in here, who chose not to hate him. Maybe we all can help to reduce tension by not posting hateful comments.

my two minor currency units...

[donKey jote]

Any chance we could get a :yawn: smilie for the forum?
:z :dozey:


"The Anglo-Saxon Mafia" aka "The Anglo-Mafia" ;)
shut it alca seltzer or your sis might get a donkey head. (I said get :andrea: )


Maybe a few of us should disappear then. Fair enough.
if you're referring to the "few of you" who have been ganging up on vhoever for the last few days, and to be perfectly honest from my point of view, a "few of your" positive contributions would certainly be missed until you returned, but the negativity and the at times posse attitude would certainly not be, as it is just as bad as the trolling in my donkey book.
Everybody is free to do a daniel or an ioan now and again and do a runner, just cut the theatrics.

There, all that pent up negativity in me after reading this thread is now gone. I love you all. biiiggg huuuugggggg :kiss:

[donKey jote]

Of [:::] first xxx posts about yyy are straight-forward flame bait.
:::
my two minor currency units...

not only vhatever, but also dj has finally seen the light :up:

just don't mention the Vettel :andrea: :p

[henners88]

if you're referring to the "few of you" who have been ganging up on vhoever for the last few days, and to be perfectly honest from my point of view, a "few of your" positive contributions would certainly be missed until you returned, but the negativity and the at times posse attitude would certainly not be, as it is just as bad as the trolling in my donkey book.
Everybody is free to do a daniel or an ioan now and again and do a runner, just cut the theatrics.
Seeing as you are the third member who has brought this up, can I claim to be ganged upon now too? Seriously though I'm not that soft, deeply disappointed and surprised by your comments but I'm not going to claim victim. If this individual is welcome by most of you then fair enough, I've made my choice and am not in the least bit tempted to read their comments. If I have offended some of you by responding to this individual then hey I'm sorry, not much but it's the thing to say in situations like this. I'm starting to think this thread has done more harm than good, we've learnt a little more about each other I think.

[The Black Knight]

Why can't we all just get along?

[donKey jote]

deeply disappointed and surprised by your comments but I'm not going to claim victim....
we've learnt a little more about each other I think.
I don't think we have, to be honest. Sorry to have disappointed you. I see you in general as an excellent quality poster, mostly fair, balanced and more often than not, trying to bring peace. It's only the other bits, like fighting troll with gang of trolls and then having a whine, that -I confess- get on my tits.
I guess had I practiced what I'm trying to preach, I'd have kept my gob shut though :)


Why can't we all just get along?
cos we're all a bunch of donkeys, a reflection of the real world http://i46.tinypic.com/hv9ul3.gif

[Mark]

Speak for yourself :laugh:

Tapatalk has a like feature built right in. OMFG

[SGWilko]

http://i46.tinypic.com/hv9ul3.gif

^^^^Look at the baps on that! ;)

[jens]

Thanks for some thoughts, mates.

A superb post by dj_bytedisaster here. :up: I know you have a tendency to get overemotional about issues and I have at times wondered, how to approach you. I think we can understand each other that we can all get emotional, frustrated, and make posts in the heat of the moment. After all we have heard drivers saying all kinds of things in the heat of the moment over team radio. So we are humans as well and can overreact. But it is certainly possible for a human to train the way of expressing the emotion - and most crucially that it isn't "against" anyone, be it a poster or a driver. That it isn't channelened negatively, which hurts others.

Great thoughts by Bagwan as well all through the thread. I think the good thing is that if we all share our sincere thoughts, we can all learn from each other and in that way get closer.

I have to admit I don't agree with Knock-On's mentality that it is fine to make "flippant remarks" (as he calls it) about trolls. I am surprised you have taken such stance, maybe you can explain it, why do you think it is fine? Because if we take from a pure discussion point of view - logically it doesn't add anything to discussion. It drags is off-topic. And based on individuals those remarks may well seem personal attacks. And this is what we are discussing - threads getting derailed in one way or another. Remarks about posters - even if they are meant as a joke - will do just that whether you like it or not. Especially if you know you don't get away with it and get a reaction from the other guy. Most of all we need to think of the consequences of our posts - including the consequences of humour as well. Not all humour is good-natured, some is harsh as well.

I know Garry Walker is such guy, who thinks that rude language is absolutely fine for him - and he has mentioned it too. He has been brought up in a different way, his personal culture is different. Maybe it works fine for him in everyday life, who am I to know. But in our culture here it doesn't work, because we have very different people and we have to adapt accordingly.

In terms of moderating... well, one thing is that I am not that often getting involved. I feel I need to live a harmonious life as much as I can and if I get too involved here, it would ruin the balance of life somewhat. Another thing is that I have personally been more prone to gentler and softer moderation approach, which some have questioned. Well, one thing comes from the attitude about human nature in general. I like to be very positive and really believe in unlocking the good side of humans. So I don't want to create bad feelings too easily in banning someone, who could just keep re-appearing with frustration all the time. As long as I can, I would like to discuss and discuss. And finally find the common ground between us. This is because in the long-term it would have a better effect. This thread is a good case. We actually discuss, debate, think and finally all become better human things instead of just silently doing our own business. This thread was needed in order to understand each other better. Understanding is the keyword for me - regardless of how much time it takes, it is worth the effort. Of course there are or can be cases, which are absolutely hopeless. But at least the rest of us would be wise enough to see it through by then.

[steveaki13]

Well I personally havent added anyone to my ignore list.

I find a few posters on here views occasionally nasty, but on the whole I have time for all and just let most thinks wash over me.

One thing I do hate though is SPAMMERS.

But hey come on guys lets try and be friends while trying to prove someones opinions completely loopy.

[Bagwan]

Seeing as you are the third member who has brought this up, can I claim to be ganged upon now too? Seriously though I'm not that soft, deeply disappointed and surprised by your comments but I'm not going to claim victim. If this individual is welcome by most of you then fair enough, I've made my choice and am not in the least bit tempted to read their comments. If I have offended some of you by responding to this individual then hey I'm sorry, not much but it's the thing to say in situations like this. I'm starting to think this thread has done more harm than good, we've learnt a little more about each other I think.

Try to take donKey's words constructively .
He was braver than I to tackle this issue directly(thank-you donKey) .

It's the piling on that I mentioned earlier , with some of you cats seemingly getting it into a regular spiral downwards .
I can't dismiss the actions of Vhatever either , as he certainly played his role , but it's sure hard to figure out who's wearing the white hat in the western movie when that posse rounds the bend .

Ignore him if you wish .
I'm sorry if I feel the need to quote him in a reply , as you'll see it unless you ignore me as well .
And I hope you don't .

Suffice it to say that I will be replying to his post if I feel that it deserves it .

I don't want you , vhatever , muskie Jim , or anyone else to leave .
I like you all .

[jens]

Overall as a conclusion from this thread I can see that people would like a more decisive action from mods in the event of personal attacks.

So far this may not have been the case due to following reasons:
- as world is not black-and-whitish, it is not always a clear, who or what is a "troll". One may point to other that he is a troll, while the same person may not be any different without recognizing it.
- before vhatever - who people complain about - came along, I am sure several posters were not free of guilt in making personal attacks either. As a result you take your time to evaluate the situation.
- the way forum has become more passive in recent years. I think this has contributed to the greater amount of "rubbish talk". Because there is not much to talk about and probably several quality posters have disappeared, so... well, there is nothing to talk about and people start talking about each other. Maybe it is a natural effect that cannot be helped in a more passive forum. As said, this is about general athmosphere. If we had an active forum full of intelligent members, trolls would not feel welcome and would not have much to add to discussion. But in a different forum they can have a more serious effect.

You can think about your everyday life. You can be part of different groups of people in different moments. You may talk about some things among one group of people, but another group is a bit different and you don't feel comfortable to mention same things there - you'd need to adapt to the wavelength on which they are.

But in case of changing the strategy and seriously adding infractions for every single personal attack one needs to be very careful, because easily several people can fall victim of this even without instantly recognizing it. It would not be very good to ban half of the people in an already quite a passive forum. :p :

It reminds me a bit of school situation. Some kids come from strange families or have had some setbacks in their early life development, are hyperactive, can't control themselves or there is some other issue. But when they are at school, they are also part of school society - you can't throw them at the street and tell you can't come to school any more. At least such option hasn't been created in the society yet or at best it takes some time and bureaucracy before you can send someone to some other so-called special school, depending on the seriousness of the problem.

Meantime in the event of trouble other kids can easily start crying "oh he did or said that, so unfair!!" What are you going to do with it? All this while you can't make the 'culprit' disappear from the school society. And you can't help/change some people or at least the process would be very slow. Obviously you can do your best to convince children to concentrate on the good and important things, see the big picture and not take things personally. And learn from this. To deal with the inevitabilities of the society.

Talking from my own experience, have been working at school in the past. :D

[donKey jote]

Speak for yourself


Please refrain from personal insults. Even if you think the person you are attacking somehow 'deserves' it, if you post a personal attack you are damaging the forum. So stop. Thank you. :mark: :andrea:

[CaptainRaiden]

God, this much melodrama for banging away on the keyboard gossiping about the F1 people, 99% of whom don't even know we exist.

I don't think Lewis or Seb have problems getting to sleep in the night thinking about what vhatever and Garry think about them. :(

Can't we all just get along? :D

[TheFamousEccles]

Wow, this thread sure grew some legs...

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdddhx7KbQ1rhzuv5o1_500.png

[Big Ben]

can we all hug and kiss now? are we there yet?

[Mark]

No; we have to do forum hunger games first ;)

[Whyzars]

My wife ignores me. :D

[SGWilko]

My wife ignores me. :D

Lucky git! ;)

[markabilly]

My wife ignores me. :D Mine don't...I put her on the ignore list, but the dam thing don't work...but I keep hoping she will run off with wilco and stay gone. If she did, poor donkey might not be able to deal with it--losing both his missus and his momma

[SGWilko]

Mine don't...I put her on the ignore list, but the dam thing don't work...but I keep hoping she will run off with wilco and stay gone. If she did, poor donkey might not be able to deal with it--losing both his missus and his momma

She turned me down, can you believe that?

[markabilly]

God, this much melodrama for banging away on the keyboard gossiping about the F1 people, 99% of whom don't even know we exist.

I don't think Lewis or Seb have problems getting to sleep in the night thinking about what vhatever and Garry think about them. :(

Can't we all just get along? :D I was thinking more like a 200% of whom......

[markabilly]

She turned me down, can you believe that? She weren't really. she was trying to turn you over

[markabilly]

Overall as a conclusion from this thread I can see that people would like a more decisive action from mods in the event of personal attacks.

So far this may not have been the case due to following reasons:
- as world is not black-and-whitish, it is not always a clear, who or what is a "troll". One may point to other that he is a troll, while the same person may not be any different without recognizing it.
- before vhatever - who people complain about - came along, I am sure several posters were not free of guilt in making personal attacks either. As a result you take your time to evaluate the situation.
- the way forum has become more passive in recent years. I think this has contributed to the greater amount of "rubbish talk". Because there is not much to talk about and probably several quality posters have disappeared, so... well, there is nothing to talk about and people start talking about each other. Maybe it is a natural effect that cannot be helped in a more passive forum. As said, this is about general athmosphere. If we had an active forum full of intelligent members, trolls would not feel welcome and would not have much to add to discussion. But in a different forum they can have a more serious effect.

You can think about your everyday life. You can be part of different groups of people in different moments. You may talk about some things among one group of people, but another group is a bit different and you don't feel comfortable to mention same things there - you'd need to adapt to the wavelength on which they are.

But in case of changing the strategy and seriously adding infractions for every single personal attack one needs to be very careful, because easily several people can fall victim of this even without instantly recognizing it. It would not be very good to ban half of the people in an already quite a passive forum. :p :

It reminds me a bit of school situation. Some kids come from strange families or have had some setbacks in their early life development, are hyperactive, can't control themselves or there is some other issue. But when they are at school, they are also part of school society - you can't throw them at the street and tell you can't come to school any more. At least such option hasn't been created in the society yet or at best it takes some time and bureaucracy before you can send someone to some other so-called special school, depending on the seriousness of the problem.

Meantime in the event of trouble other kids can easily start crying "oh he did or said that, so unfair!!" What are you going to do with it? All this while you can't make the 'culprit' disappear from the school society. And you can't help/change some people or at least the process would be very slow. Obviously you can do your best to convince children to concentrate on the good and important things, see the big picture and not take things personally. And learn from this. To deal with the inevitabilities of the society.

Talking from my own experience, have been working at school in the past. :D
"passive” ? Well, that I think has a lot to do with the absence of Tamb and Ioan. Both had a technical knowledge and understanding of F1 that most posters do not have. Neither cared for most British racers or teams, so the debate would erupt. Both could be a bit irritating,and what I would refer to as the “British block” did their best to make life tough on them. There is such a thing as baiting someone, to the point that when they respond back, they get banned. Even now, there is this constant attempt tosmoke out posters and try to figure out if it is Tamb. so I dunnooo
as to more banning, well why? I fail to see any point of that. Some fail to realize that when somebody disagrees with them, it is what gives rise to the debate. The chances of convincing them you are right, is not very high, so the enjoyment should come from the debate---and not the expectation that you will win. But if you can not convince them, then ban them as a way of having the final word, only eliminates those who would be there to debate you, ultimately leaving only those who agree with you, so what becomes the point.?????...the result is a passive dead forum

[markabilly]

I miss Easy too :(

If he were here, he would say, buy more ammo and reload.
I once pm’d him as he had not been around for a while, about been missing you.
His response was one word: reload
If he had not told me, I never would have guessed that he was living in Canada and pretty much born in and raised in England, as he was more redneck than many a so-called redneck. :eek:

[donKey jote]

can we all hug and kiss now?

sure, but join the queue... Billy's missus can only do four at a time :andrea:

[markabilly]

sure, but join the queue... Billy's missus can only do four at a time :andrea:
For $2.00 extra, she can do five

[Tazio]

Easy (gee I miss him)


I miss Easy too :(
I also miss Easy, his his sense of humor was as perverted as a couple other members who will remain nameless :angel:

[donKey jote]

For $2.00 extra, she can do five

This was Big Ben asking, not Little Billy :andrea:

[pino]

Time to close this, but before that, we would like to thanks everyone for your contribution and all feedback posted. Also please please do remember that off-topic or personal comments/insults are not tolerated, and will be punished with infractions points. And btw there is still a sticky thread on top page of this forum, about the rules to follow. Now enjoy the forum and have a great summer everyone :)