2014 Silly Season

[keysersoze]

Now that the first domino has fallen:

Raikonnen to Red Bull, which leaves a vacancy at Lotus that is filled by the guy RBR was supposed to install, so Horner negotiates the Raikonnen deal which places
Ricciardo at Lotus. But Lotus is rumored to be needing at least one pay driver, which means Grosjean is out, and . . .
Maldonado to Lotus. Ferrari are ready to move on without Massa, so
Rosberg to Ferrari, which means someone finally gets their Mercedes dream:
di Resta to Mercedes. And with Force India switching to Ferrari engines (they are, aren't they?),
Bianchi to Force India and Sutil stays. But back to STR, who now need to promote someone, so
da Costa to Toro Rosso, with Vergne, who gets another year. Williams need to replace Pastor, so
Grosjean to Williams, who retain Bottas.

Now on to the also rans:

Although I think he has done a good job, Giedo is likely to get the boot and
Alexander Rossi moves to Caterham, joining Pic. The luckless Hulkenberg has nowhere to go so he stays, and his new teammate is an old employee:
Massa to Sauber, replacing Gutierrez, whose only hope is to be a 3rd driver somewhere. The final piece is Chilton's teammate, and I'm going with
Petrov to Marussia.

The only team that continues with their current line-up is McLaren.

There's an 80% chance that I'm wrong about just about everything above. :p

I really hope Valsecchi gets the nod at Lotus.

[vhatever]

Well, I think you nailed the silly part. Nothing else, however. 90 % of these have pretty much zero chance of happening.

[jens]

Keysersoze - is this a random list of movements or actually based on some rumours? :p :

Certainly I thought Rosberg has a multi-year-deal with Mercedes, which extends beyond this season.

Räikkönen looks increasingly likely at RBR, but the fight for the Lotus seat (or even seats) is really on for the rest of the season. Much like di Resta, Pérez, Hülkenberg were battling for the opening McLaren seat last year and it was difficult to make a choice for the McL team.

This time at Lotus? Di Resta and Hülkenberg should once again be in the running. Why not even the Toro Rosso boys? Sutil unfortunately may have ruined his chances with a glassing incident back in 2011. The departing Räikkönen may put in a good word for Bottas much like Häkkinen did back in 2001 for Räikkönen before leaving McLaren.

[steveaki13]

Keysersoze - is this a random list of movements or actually based on some rumours? :p :


The prior I think. :D

Fun to speculate though.

One key aspect of the Raikkonen to Red Bull is Seb.

I mean lets be honest we would love to see a Kimi & Seb battle. Two top drivers in a potentially great Car.

But what would Seb think. I mean he has done so much for Red Bull would be tempted to have a word in their ear and suggest Ricciardo or Vergne?

Or would he be willing to show what he's made of and fight Kimi, which he would have too as he cant expect Kimi to be 7th or 8th in most Races. This will be interesting as hell

As for Lotus that would surely dent any ability to fight at the front.

Massa? I mean we have heard for a couple of years he would be replaced but as yet no news. Maybe Ricciardo if he was ignored by Red Bull.

[truefan72]

Keysersoze - is this a random list of movements or actually based on some rumours? :p :

Certainly I thought Rosberg has a multi-year-deal with Mercedes, which extends beyond this season.

Räikkönen looks increasingly likely at RBR, but the fight for the Lotus seat (or even seats) is really on for the rest of the season. Much like di Resta, Pérez, Hülkenberg were battling for the opening McLaren seat last year and it was difficult to make a choice for the McL team.

This time at Lotus? Di Resta and Hülkenberg should once again be in the running. Why not even the Toro Rosso boys? Sutil unfortunately may have ruined his chances with a glassing incident back in 2011. The departing Räikkönen may put in a good word for Bottas much like Häkkinen did back in 2001 for Räikkönen before leaving McLaren.

If i was either Force india driver, i wouldn't be going anywhere unless the rBR or Ferraris eat is offered.
at this point the force india is close to a likely race winner and a strong car. 2014 should be even better for them.
I'm pretty sure hulkenberg is regretting his move every day. Then again who knew sauber would take such a step backwards.

[christophulus]

I still think one of the Toro Rosso drivers will end up at Red Bull - someone quick but no threat to Vettel as it is blatantly his team. Plus if neither of them get the seat it really begs the question, why do Red Bull still own the team? What benefit does it bring?

I can see Massa staying at Ferrari too for the same reason - it's Alonso's team and he needs someone who accepts that.

Maldonado moving to Lotus? Maybe - they seem to be more capable of producing a half decent car whereas Williams aren't taking advantage of the large amounts of cash he's brought in (sadly). Plus Lotus don't have a confirmed engine supply for next year so they could take over Force India's Mercedes engines and also take di Resta off their hands?

The only other person I can see moving is Bianchi, he is far too good a driver to stay at Marussia for another season. With him being a Ferrari driver his options are either Sauber or Force India if they're switching engine supply. An outside bet for the no.2 Ferrari seat if Massa has another dip in form later this season?

Plus with the substantial rule changes next year there is plenty of opportunity for the pecking order to change, so personally I don't think the teams will also want to start messing around with their driver line ups any more than they have to.

[keysersoze]

Well, I think you nailed the silly part. Nothing else, however. 90 % of these have pretty much zero chance of happening.

My self-deprecating approach should have headed off such rude replies. :rolleyes:

If you'd like to disagree, I'd suggest you note how jens, ever the gentleman, replied.

This annual discussion is at times light-hearted and speculative. If your purpose is rudeness (I've noticed it on other threads as well) . . . . butt the hell out. :mad:

[TheFamousEccles]

^ He's a cranky little guy, isn't he?

Blind Freddy could see that your post was meant as a conversation starter, not a definitive statement :rolleyes:


I still think one of the Toro Rosso drivers will end up at Red Bull - someone quick but no threat to Vettel as it is blatantly his team. Plus if neither of them get the seat it really begs the question, why do Red Bull still own the team? What benefit does it bring?

Precisely.

[Rollo]

Massa? I mean we have heard for a couple of years he would be replaced but as yet no news. Maybe Ricciardo if he was ignored by Red Bull.

27th May, this happened:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/ferr-koba-fior-2013-1-470x312.jpg
Pictures: Kamui Kobayashi tests Ferrari F1 car at Fiorano - F1 Fanatic (http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/05/27/kobayashi-tests-ferrari-f1-car-at-fiorano/)
Kamui Kobayashi had a chance to drive a Ferrari Formula One car at the team’s Maranello test track day.
...
Kobayashi drove the car to familiarise himself with it ahead of his planned run at the Moscow City Racing event on July 21st.

And he's been running with AF Corse in the WEC. I can only hope.

[kfzmeister]

I'm gonna approach this from another angle. If i were a driver with a chance to take a seat at RB, i might question the competitiveness there come next season. Their "aero" run of a possible 4 titles may very well be over.

The way i read the new regs is that aero will be extremely limited and the new turbo energy package will play a much bigger role. So will RB/Renault be really the place to be? Is Vettel actually looking to move? If so, where?

Mercedes is already rumored to have the package, so Hamilton's looking set.

[steveaki13]

Ideal line up for Mercedes in the long run would be Vettel & Rosberg I suppose to form an all conquering German/Mercedes line up, of course then Lewis is out. So this would be 2015-2016 maybe, by then though things change alot.

Kobayashi in the Ferrari F1 next year would be exciting for sure, whether it could ever happen though. I would loveto see it, It would really throw a double six.

[zako85]

I'm gonna approach this from another angle. If i were a driver with a chance to take a seat at RB, i might question the competitiveness there come next season. Their "aero" run of a possible 4 titles may very well be over.


I suspect this successful "aero" run was not by a chance. It was enabled by specific very talented people, engineers and drivers. Most of them are not going away from Red Bull, so my subjective odds of RedBull building a successful front running car again are very high. Of course, Mercedes is quite a technology powerhouse. Building their own engine and car may benefit them, although it also may not, if you look at the bad luck Ferrari had with its new 3.5L V12 in the 90s. There were probably other examples of manufacturer teams struggling with a new engine. By the way, I believe in 2011 Rosberg signed a new 5-year contract and Hamilton signed a 3-year contract last year, so both Mercedes seats will be occupied until the end of 2015.

[RedBullian1]

Now that the first domino has fallen:

Raikonnen to Red Bull, which leaves a vacancy at Lotus that is filled by the guy RBR was supposed to install, so Horner negotiates the Raikonnen deal which places
Ricciardo at Lotus. But Lotus is rumored to be needing at least one pay driver, which means Grosjean is out, and . . .
Maldonado to Lotus. Ferrari are ready to move on without Massa, so
Rosberg to Ferrari, which means someone finally gets their Mercedes dream:
di Resta to Mercedes. And with Force India switching to Ferrari engines (they are, aren't they?),
Bianchi to Force India and Sutil stays. But back to STR, who now need to promote someone, so
da Costa to Toro Rosso, with Vergne, who gets another year. Williams need to replace Pastor, so
Grosjean to Williams, who retain Bottas.

Now on to the also rans:

Although I think he has done a good job, Giedo is likely to get the boot and
Alexander Rossi moves to Caterham, joining Pic. The luckless Hulkenberg has nowhere to go so he stays, and his new teammate is an old employee:
Massa to Sauber, replacing Gutierrez, whose only hope is to be a 3rd driver somewhere. The final piece is Chilton's teammate, and I'm going with
Petrov to Marussia.

The only team that continues with their current line-up is McLaren.

There's an 80% chance that I'm wrong about just about everything above. :p

I really hope Valsecchi gets the nod at Lotus.

Rosberg to Ferrari makes Ferrari title contenders again. It will be them and Red Bull if that would happen, but Red Bull with Vettel and Kimi would be unreal

[Ranger]

So whilst Red Bull are deciding between Raikkonen, Ricciardo and Vergne, Hulkenberg is on the move (again):


Nico Hulkenberg is free to leave the Sauber outfit with immediate effect if he wishes, after he and his manager activated a termination clause in his contract with the team. Hulkenberg is however likely to remain with Sauber until the end of the season, but a move elsewhere after that is highly likely amidst rumours that the team is under intense financial strain which has resulted in non-payment of employee wages - including Hulkenberg's. - See more at: Hulkenberg terminates his Sauber contract (http://www.f1times.co.uk/news/display/07813#sthash.rXMXZwD9.dpuf)

So we have:

Red Bull - Vettel, TBA
Mercedes - Hamilton, Rosberg
Ferrari - Alonso, TBA
Lotus - TBA, TBA
Force India - di Resta, TBA
McLaren - Perez, Button
Sauber - TBA, TBA
Williams - TBA, TBA
Marussia - TBA, TBA
Caterham - Pic, TBA

Unless he gets a promotion, I'd have to think Bottas will be staying at Williams.
I still think Massa will get a contract from Ferrari.
Grosjean might just be doing enough to keep his seat.
Maldonado I'm sure will turn up next year.

[jens]

Merged threads.



Red Bull - Vettel, TBA
Mercedes - Hamilton, Rosberg
Ferrari - Alonso, TBA
Lotus - TBA, TBA
Force India - di Resta, TBA
McLaren - Perez, Button
Sauber - TBA, TBA
Williams - TBA, TBA
Marussia - TBA, TBA
Caterham - Pic, TBA

Unless he gets a promotion, I'd have to think Bottas will be staying at Williams.
I still think Massa will get a contract from Ferrari.
Grosjean might just be doing enough to keep his seat.
Maldonado I'm sure will turn up next year.

Maldonado-Bottas at Williams is likely unless PDVSA pulls out following the early-year Venezuelan elections. Some stronger team could be interested in Bottas too, but doesn't seem to be the case yet.

In all honesty, I would like to see a change in Ferrari's second seat and have been waiting for it since 2011 to be frank. Every year it is the same story - Massa has 3-4 good races after which it is claimed that the "old Felipe" is back, but overall the Brazilian falls into his traditional inconsistent form. In a situation, where next year we are going to have very strong Hamilton-Rosberg and potentially Vettel-Räikkönen line-ups, Ferrari will be struggling to compete against them with 1.5 drivers. Half, because this is the amount of points Massa usually collects of Alonso's points total. The likes of di Resta, Hülkenberg or even Ricciardo are not guaranteed to do better, but at least there is a chance they could. While with Massa it is now clear this is the best we are going to get from him.

Regarding Grosjean I'd have to wait until the end of the season. His form is massively inconsistent, but unlike Massa at least there is a chance he has not reached his peak yet and with Räikkönen leaving Lotus may feel they need at least some continuity. We will see. However, Romain has shown one good trait in 2013 - that he is able to learn. His racecraft has been much better this year, while last year he looked like a hopeless crashaholic at times. Needless to say, some even doubted if his peripheral vision is actually to F1 standards. His Monaco weekend was a bit scruffy, but race starts have all been flawless from what I can recall.

Sauber is tricky. If the rumours about financial issues are true, then... well, they could end up with anyone with bags full of cash in the two driving seats next year. It would be harsh for F1 if another team falls into this category, but what can you do.

Force India. Di Resta has a deal for 2014? I don't know that. But he is under consideration for Lotus. However, I wonder if Force India could once again replace one of their drivers, which is what they have usually done each year. If di Resta stays put, could Sutil's seat be under threat? Despite the German having done a solid job. He could have flashbacks to 2011, when he had a strong season, yet was left without a drive.

[N4D13]

Ferrari will be struggling to compete against them with 1.5 drivers. Half, because this is the amount of points Massa usually collects of Alonso's points total.
This is rather harsh. One could argue that Red Bull had just 1.64 drivers in 2012 and Lotus, 1.46. Also there's no guarantee that anyone who replaces Massa at Ferrari will do any better than Felipe.

[jens]

This is rather harsh. One could argue that Red Bull had just 1.64 drivers in 2012 and Lotus, 1.46. Also there's no guarantee that anyone who replaces Massa at Ferrari will do any better than Felipe.

There is never a guarantee, this isn't the matter. In competition there are no guarantees, you can have an unforeseen accident and be out of contention. But a younger and newer driver would have a greater development potential. After all, we are talking about future seasons. After all, F1 is business. And successful businessmen know well enough that in order to succeed they need to take calculated risks. You may get it wrong, but without these you wouldn't be successful. Ferrari is now in such situation and let's be honest, replacing Massa isn't that much of a risk anyway. Because he isn't contributing much to WCC. I know Felipe is a nice guy and brings harmony to Ferrari, but if the harmony doesn't bring you results, you have to question its point.

I really don't see a downside. Let's say Ferrari hires Hülkenberg. And in 2014 he collects 50% of Alonso's points. So? It is still better than Massa. Why? Because Hülkenberg is younger, new to the team and is likely to have a stronger season in 2015 and has more long-term future beyond that as well. In addition he brings fresh energy and new perspective to the team. They have continuity with Alonso anyway.

Seriously, I don't see, how bringing about half of your team-mates is a strong achievement. Usually drivers, who do that, are always considered to be replaced. Kovalainen collected about half of Hamilton's points. And he was considered so bad that everyone wanted to see him gone from McLaren. You mentioned Grosjean's 1.46. Well, it was bad enough to make everyone re-think whether he is worthy of F1 seat at all and the only saving grace was that he was still pretty new to F1. While Massa has no inexperience excuses.

[donKey jote]

Silly season?

Carlos Sainz for the 2nd Red Bull seat ! :D

[Ranger]

Sauber are giving a drive to Russian Sergey Sirotkin who will be 18 next year, in return for his father securing the teams future funds.

Sauber eases financial issues with new Russian sponsors but must give Formula One race seat to backer's son - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/10179550/Sauber-eases-financial-issues-with-new-Russian-sponsors-but-must-give-Formula-One-race-seat-to-backers-son.html)

Amazing. Can anyone say... nepotism?

Hopefully will be decent, seeing as he has beaten much more accomplished and proven drivers to a mid-field Formula 1 team.

[briere]

I apologise, but it does not approach me.

[donKey jote]

Really ? :andrea:

[steveaki13]

Really ? :andrea:

You'd better not be questioning him? He's from Netherlands Antilles you know. :vader:

[Sage-sg]

I want see Kimi in cockpit very fast bolid, and I want see russian pilot in peloton. Petrov is good pilot and he is worthy to be in F1. But Sauber promises what we will see Sirotkin in Formula One in 2014 season.

[jens]

Sergei Sirotkin in F1 next year? :eek:

Well, what can I say. I have to say that he caught my attention already last year in Auto GP, when he was only 16 years old. And he is doing a solid job in WSR too alreadythis year. He is a driver, who could have some serious potential I have to say. But the problem is that as he is so young, he is quite a few years behind other drivers in development curve and it would take quite some time before he reaches his true potential.

We remember Button and Räikkönen getting into F1 without much prior experience, but didn't do too badly in their debut seasons. Vettel was only 19, when he was drafted in mid-season, yet had two strong wet-weather races at the end of 2007. But the problem is that Sirotkin is even younger and less experienced than all these guys were and has even a steeper development curve. I hope all goes well and he shows some potential already in his debut year at tender age of 18, but it's not going to be without setbacks.

Another thing is that hopefully the sponsors have the vision to back him long-term, because very obviously he is not going to deliver to his full potential straightaway. Red Bull backed Alguersuari for 2.5 years before they decided he wasn't good enough (in terms of winning a championship). And hopefully the young man has the right mindset to show continuous improvement, because it is easy to think that life is easy at the first signs of promise.

Though I just remembered once WRC driver, who started at 18 in the big league and had a "five-year-project". Matthew Wilson was his name. :p :

[steveaki13]

I agree Jens. All the drivers you mention done well at a young age without much experience at a lowly level, but all had talent.

The worry is that more and more drivers of only average standard are being risked because of Money.

[Ranger]

Sergei Sirotkin in F1 next year? :eek:

Well, what can I say. I have to say that he caught my attention already last year in Auto GP, when he was only 16 years old. And he is doing a solid job in WSR too alreadythis year. He is a driver, who could have some serious potential I have to say. But the problem is that as he is so young, he is quite a few years behind other drivers in development curve and it would take quite some time before he reaches his true potential.

We remember Button and Räikkönen getting into F1 without much prior experience, but didn't do too badly in their debut seasons. Vettel was only 19, when he was drafted in mid-season, yet had two strong wet-weather races at the end of 2007. But the problem is that Sirotkin is even younger and less experienced than all these guys were and has even a steeper development curve. I hope all goes well and he shows some potential already in his debut year at tender age of 18, but it's not going to be without setbacks.

Another thing is that hopefully the sponsors have the vision to back him long-term, because very obviously he is not going to deliver to his full potential straightaway. Red Bull backed Alguersuari for 2.5 years before they decided he wasn't good enough (in terms of winning a championship). And hopefully the young man has the right mindset to show continuous improvement, because it is easy to think that life is easy at the first signs of promise.

Though I just remembered once WRC driver, who started at 18 in the big league and had a "five-year-project". Matthew Wilson was his name. :p :

Even if Sirotkin got a drive in 2015, he would be only 19 - still in the top 3 of youngest drivers ever.

I have a feeling that if his backers want him on the grid next year, he'll be there.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I agree Jens. All the drivers you mention done well at a young age without much experience at a lowly level, but all had talent.

The worry is that more and more drivers of only average standard are being risked because of Money.

The difference is, Button, Alonso, Kimi and Vettel, who all came to F1 at a very young age, had thousands upon thousands of test mileage before their first Grandprix. Young drivers these days are thrown in at the deep end with little more than a shakedown lap due to the ridiculous testing ban.

[N4D13]

Even if Sirotkin got a drive in 2015, he would be only 19 - still in the top 3 of youngest drivers ever.

I have a feeling that if his backers want him on the grid next year, he'll be there.
I don't really know Sirotkin but I find it rather worrying that they want to throw him into a F1 seat without enough previous experience. I fear that he will not be able to adapt because of his unexperience and so his career (and reputation) might be destroyed even though he might have the talent to be in F1.

[donKey jote]

Silly season?

Carlos Sainz for the 2nd Red Bull seat ! :D

didn't do too bad in the Toro Rosso :D

[truefan72]

The difference is, Button, Alonso, Kimi and Vettel, who all came to F1 at a very young age, had thousands upon thousands of test mileage before their first Grandprix. Young drivers these days are thrown in at the deep end with little more than a shakedown lap due to the ridiculous testing ban.

yup
and estaban G. is living proof.
Even Jaime Alguersari too

[Sage-sg]

If Sirotkin will start the race in march 2014, then will be the youngest pilot f1 in the history of Formula One. But I don't think that it's good. May be he don't ready to Formula One. What do you think about it?

[TheFamousEccles]

^ It remains to be seen - has he actually driven an F1, yet? I don't follow the lesser formulae as closely as I could, mainly as I won't willingly give any of my hard earned to Murdoch for the privilege of Focks Sport, so I have no idea of whether this lad has shown any promise (other than what is mentioned on this forum).

dj has hit the nail on the head regarding the testing ban and young driver evaluation.

[steveaki13]

It is a worrying trend if more and more unknown and untested drivers hop straight into F1. A season as Friday driver is needed I think.

[RS]

My prediction:

Red Bull: Vettel / Ricciardo
Ferrari: Alonso / Massa
Mercedes: Rosberg / Hamilton
McLaren: Button / Perez
Lotus: Raikkonen / Grosjean
Force India: Sutil / DiResta
Williams: Maldonado / Bottas
Sauber: Gutierrez / Sirotkin (if they keep Mexican money, otherwise someone else and Sirotkin)
Torro Rosso: Vergne or Sainz / DeCosta
Caterham: Highest bidders
Marussia: Bianchi / Highest bidder

[pyro2212]

Sirotkit pay-driver!

[pyro2212]

But Dutton and Raikkonen wasn't pay-drivers!

[Sage-sg]

But Dutton and Raikkonen wasn't pay-drivers!
Lots of pay-driver are in F1 and this is normal.

[Ranger]

McLaren wants protege Kevin Magnussen in Formula 1 in 2014 - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109040)


McLaren wants protege Kevin Magnussen in Formula 1 in 2014

McLaren is hoping to find its young driver Kevin Magnussen a seat in Formula 1 next year.

The Dane impressed the team during a day's running at the recent Silverstone young driver test, and is currently leading the Formula Renault 3.5 standings.

McLaren has high hopes for Magnussen and team principal Martin Whitmarsh revealed that his outfit was considering options to find him an F1 race drive in 2014.

[Garry Walker]

McLaren wants protege Kevin Magnussen in Formula 1 in 2014 - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109040)
Hopefully he will be more of a F1 man and less of a lesser series man than his dad was.

[DexDexter]

The difference is, Button, Alonso, Kimi and Vettel, who all came to F1 at a very young age, had thousands upon thousands of test mileage before their first Grandprix. Young drivers these days are thrown in at the deep end with little more than a shakedown lap due to the ridiculous testing ban.

It wasn't always like that in the past. Mika Häkkinen got few laps in a two-year-old Lotus and a shakedown before his debut in 1991. One Michael Schumacher basically jumped into a Jordan and qualified 7th at Spa.

[gm99]

Hm, the phrase "McLaren have high hopes for Magnussen" sounds quite familiar - must have read it in Autosport back around 1995 :p

[truefan72]

Ok here is my prediction
Kimi loses out to ricciaordo for the 2nd RBR seat
so the dominos will fall

1. Kimi joins Alonso at Ferrari, they are probably the only team ready and willing to pay his salary
2. Hulkenberg moves to renault and continues in a young strong pairing with Grosjean, who retains his seat
3. STR hires Buemi back to the team to drive along with Vergne, who is also put on notice that his seat might be vulnerable for 2015 ( or sooner as STR have a habit of switching drivers mid season)
4. Sauber Hires Bianchi and Kobayashi gets a sniff during winter sessions. then gets the 2nd seat with Guiterrez relegated back to 3rd driver duties
5. some gp2 driver gets the 2nd Marussia seat
6. Massa is out of an F1 seat or gets a sniff at the 2nd sauber seat in an open competition with other drivers during winter testing. (btw I think sauber will bounce back and be an occasional podium team again in 2014)
7. No changes at Mercedes, Mclaren, Force india and williams
8. No idea what caterham is going to do, although all sings point to a retention of both drivers.

last but not least, sad that there will not be another team coming into F1.

[N4D13]

I'm a bit baffled at the Alonso-to-RBR rumours. It doesn't make any sense for any of the parties involved. I can't see Vettel and Alonso together at any team because the fireworks would be seen from the moon (using a shoe). It might actually make sense to see that kind of change in 2015 and only if Vettel and Alonso exchanged teams, which doesn't look quite likely IMHO.

For the same reasons, I wouldn't expect Ferrari to put Fernando and Kimi in the same team. Surely they wouldn't want to destabilize their star driver? Alonso has been driving really well since he joined the team and has failed to win a championship because Red Bull has produced better cars. Ferrari needs to build a faster car and putting a fast driver alongside Alonso could hurt them more than it would help them.

[Mia 01]

As it stands now it could be Alonso to Lotus next year.

[zako85]

I'm a bit baffled at the Alonso-to-RBR rumours. It doesn't make any sense for any of the parties involved.

Yes. Everyone knows that Alonso is an alpha-driver who won't tolerate being on an equal footing with the other driver in the team. However, perhaps Alonso is also realizing now that moving to RBR is the only way he could possibly to take a jab at Vettel? It's hard to believe in this theory, but who knows. It's also not clear if RBR can afford to pay the salaries of two multiple WDC winners.

[Mia 01]

If Alonso joins RBR next year I´m afraid Mercedes will winn both titéls. The 2007 saga will repeat.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I'm a bit baffled at the Alonso-to-RBR rumours. It doesn't make any sense for any of the parties involved. I can't see Vettel and Alonso together at any team because the fireworks would be seen from the moon (using a shoe). It might actually make sense to see that kind of change in 2015 and only if Vettel and Alonso exchanged teams, which doesn't look quite likely IMHO.

I think there is some substance to the rumours. Vettel knows that his achievements will never be accepted if he stays at the team. Detractors will always play the 'best car' spiel. On top of that not all's been well in the RB camp since his Malaysia antics. The team swap could come earlier than expected. Every team starts with a clean sheet next year, so that would be a much better time to roll in a new lead driver than 2015.

[kfzmeister]

The big announcement in Monza: Vettel and Alonso to swap seats!

[Garry Walker]

Alonso to Red Bull - not gonna happen. No way. I just can't see that happening. But I would like to see that for sure.
The problem is that Alonso has a contract till 2016 or 2017 with Ferrari, getting out of that would require the kind of money Red Bull would never pay.
Switch of Alonso and Red Bull's precious? Why would Ferrari do that? I can see that happening only if relations between Ferrari and Alonso really hit rock bottom.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Alonso to Red Bull - not gonna happen. No way. I just can't see that happening. But I would like to see that for sure.
The problem is that Alonso has a contract till 2016 or 2017 with Ferrari, getting out of that would require the kind of money Red Bull would never pay.
Switch of Alonso and Red Bull's precious? Why would Ferrari do that? I can see that happening only if relations between Ferrari and Alonso really hit rock bottom.

It's not so difficult. Both Vettel and Alonso still have contracts. They could swap and RB pays a lower fee as Alonso's contract runs a year longer.
The times of Vettel being RB's precious are over. He publicly humiliated the team in Malaysia and his race engineer again at Monaco. TJ13 reports there have been a lot of forced smiles in the RB camp since then. The relationship between Ferrari and Alonso already have hit rock bottom. when was a multiple world champion bitch-slapped so publicly like Alonso yesterday and on his birthday, too. I think he's locked horns with them one time too often. And why would Ferrari want Vettel? Very simple - most of the Schumacher brigade jumped on the vettel bandwagon after 2007, so merchandise sales in germany could skyrocket again like they did in the Schumacher days and there is surely more money to harvest in Germany than in Spain, which is short of starving to death in economic terms.

[Garry Walker]

It's not so difficult. Both Vettel and Alonso still have contracts. They could swap and RB pays a lower fee as Alonso's contract runs a year longer.
The times of Vettel being RB's precious are over. He publicly humiliated the team in Malaysia and his race engineer again at Monaco. TJ13 reports there have been a lot of forced smiles in the RB camp since then.
TJ13? What has that source said?



The relationship between Ferrari and Alonso already have hit rock bottom. when was a multiple world champion bitch-slapped so publicly like Alonso yesterday and on his birthday, too. I think he's locked horns with them one time too often. Actually yeah, you might have a point with that. If that had been the first or second time Alonso has angered Luca, then he would not have bitchslapped Alonso like that. I remember there was some incident last year with Pat Fry too at the India GP, but don't remember the details anymore.

[dj_bytedisaster]

TJ13? What has that source said?

TJ13 is a specialized on F1 blog, maintained by a guy, who has several sources within most of the teams (Mechanics, soigneurs, Roadies). Usually beats the mainstream media to the big news by up to two weeks. They said immediately after Malaysia that Vettel's status as the golden boy was thoroughly thrashed after Malaysia, especially since sugar daddy Mateschitz is a Webber fanboi.


Actually yeah, you might have a point with that. If that had been the first or second time Alonso has angered Luca, then he would not have bitchslapped Alonso like that. I remember there was some incident last year with Pat Fry too at the India GP, but don't remember the details anymore.

At India last year, Alonso threw a tantrum in the garage. He threatened the team to tweet that they haven't developed the car all year if they don't get their shyte together in a damn hurry. team play looks different...

[Garry Walker]

TJ13 is a specialized on F1 blog, maintained by a guy, who has several sources within most of the teams (Mechanics, soigneurs, Roadies). Usually beats the mainstream media to the big news by up to two weeks. They said immediately after Malaysia that Vettel's status as the golden boy was thoroughly thrashed after Malaysia, especially since sugar daddy Mateschitz is a Webber fanboi.
Thanks, I did not know of that blog.


At India last year, Alonso threw a tantrum in the garage. He threatened the team to tweet that they haven't developed the car all year if they don't get their shyte together in a damn hurry. team play looks different...
:laugh: Yeah, that was it.
He should be called the blackmail boy. I mean, how stupid and immature do you have to be to actually think threatning to tweet something like that would be productive? :laugh:

[dj_bytedisaster]

:laugh: Yeah, that was it.
He should be called the blackmail boy. I mean, how stupid and immature do you have to be to actually think threatning to tweet something like that would be productive? :laugh:

IIRC he also tried to pull something like that off while he was at McLaren. I have the utmost respect for him as a driver. He's capable of truly magnificent drives. Maybe not Senna-Donnington-93 or Schumacher-Barcelone-96 brilliant, but brilliant nonetheless. As a person, however, his style leaves a lot to be desired. There is a fine line between being ruthlessly determined like Senna and just being an arrogant twat. I'm afraid currently he slots in to the second category :S

[Garry Walker]

IIRC he also tried to pull something like that off while he was at McLaren. Yep, that is why I said that. Ended up costing McLaren 100 million dollars :laugh: -



I have the utmost respect for him as a driver. He's capable of truly magnificent drives. Maybe not Senna-Donnington-93 or Schumacher-Barcelone-96 brilliant, but brilliant nonetheless. As a person, however, his style leaves a lot to be desired. There is a fine line between being ruthlessly determined like Senna and just being an arrogant twat. I'm afraid currently he slots in to the second category :S Yes. Alonso is a great driver. That he did not win the title last year is a shame, because he was amazing in so many GPs. Yet as a person, there is a lot to be desired. I mean Senna was utterly utterly ruthless and so was Schumacher (quality that I actually rate highly), but Alonso is even worse, to the degree of being counter-productive.

[Mia 01]

Red Bull knows of Alonsos antics, most teams do.

[zako85]

I admire Alonso's optimistic attitude in public interviews. Some other person could have become extremely bitter after seeing, what, like three titles slip out of his hand.

By the way, has anyone heard of Raikkonen to Ferrari rumors?

[DexDexter]

I admire Alonso's optimistic attitude in public interviews. Some other person could have become extremely bitter after seeing, what, like three titles slip out of his hand.

By the way, has anyone heard of Raikkonen to Ferrari rumors?

Kimi was asked about that today in Helsinki where is enjoying his holiday. No comment :)

[lars75]

What I think for the 2014 grid is this:

RedBull: Vettel - Ricciardo/Raikonnen
Ferrari: Alonso - Massa/Hulkenberg
Mercedes: Hamilton - Rosberg
Lotus: Raikonnen/Ricciardo - Grosjean/Maldonado
McLaren: Button - Perez
FIF1: diResta/Bianchi - Sutil/Valsecchi/Calado/Nasr
STR: Ricciardo/da Costa - Vergne
Williams: Bottas - Maldonado/Magnussen/Nasr
Sauber: Hulkenberg/Frijns/Bianchi/Petrov/Sirotkin (though I think he wouldn't make it)
Caterham: Pic/Rossi/vd Garde/Nasr
Marussia: Nasr/Magnussen/Bianchi - Chilton

[truefan72]

What I think for the 2014 grid is this:

RedBull: Vettel - Ricciardo/Raikonnen
Ferrari: Alonso - Massa/Hulkenberg
Mercedes: Hamilton - Rosberg
Lotus: Raikonnen/Ricciardo - Grosjean/Maldonado
McLaren: Button - Perez
FIF1: diResta/Bianchi - Sutil/Valsecchi/Calado/Nasr
STR: Ricciardo/da Costa - Vergne
Williams: Bottas - Maldonado/Magnussen/Nasr
Sauber: Hulkenberg/Frijns/Bianchi/Petrov/Sirotkin (though I think he wouldn't make it)
Caterham: Pic/Rossi/vd Garde/Nasr
Marussia: Nasr/Magnussen/Bianchi - Chilton

so basically anything is possible

lol

[anfield5]

Here are my thoughts, for what they are worth

RedBull - Vettel and Ricciardo
Ferrari - Alonso and Hulk
Mercedes - Hamilton and Nico
Lotus - Kimi and Roman
McLaren - Button and Perez
Force India - Sutil and diResta
Sauber - Massa and Algusuari (a long shot)
STR - JEV and Bianchi (via Ferrari links)
Williams - Maldo and Bottas
Caterham - Kovalinen and Pic
Marussia - Chilton and Berthon

[zako85]

The rumor mill can't be wrong. Raikkonen will replace Massa at Ferrari. Ricciardo to Red Bull. Lotus probably will likely go with Grosjean and Hulkenberg.

[TheFamousEccles]

Interesting rumour. I can't see Kimi willing to be #2 to Fred, though... :vader:

[truefan72]

Interesting rumour. I can't see Kimi willing to be #2 to Fred, though... :vader:

I don't think Ferrari would mind too much about 2 #1's/ I think though that the garage will be firmly split into 2 camps
I also think ( a bit hopeful) that Alonso has learned from his lessons in 2007 and has matured to accept a driver equally as capable.
...then again the whole thing could blow up in their face, especially if Kimi starts winning and if they do have a few on track battles

I'll get my popcorn ready for those radio communications

[Parabolica]

I see that it is the time of year when Massa admits his drive is in doubt for next year.

It's become an annual event.

For what it is worth, which is nothing, I would not be surprised to see a driver in the Ferrari who is already employed to drive a Ferrari, and raced in F1 last year.

The year off hasn't noticeably hurt Sutil's speed, so I don't expect it would hurt Kobayashi's.

[anfield5]

Personally (and I am often way wrong :) ) I doubt that Ferrari would take Kimi back, he hardly covered himself in glory for them in the seasons after his title, so much so that Massa completely out performed him.

[Parabolica]

I too cannot see Kimi back at Maranello.

Despite the success of 2007, it was never a beautiful relationship.

More likely it is a Robertson-fuelled rumour designed to extract the best offer elsewhere.

The only time I can see Kimi return is if Alonso goes to Red Bull. That would leave Ferrari needing an A+ driver.

[anfield5]

True but would Kimi be that? If the car is as poor as the ones Alonso has had for the last few seasons, would Kimi be able to or be interested in hauling it up to the front, or would he give up?

Don't misunderstand me I think Kimi is a wonderful driver... when he is motivated, but I do question his ability to keep motivated when things aren't working well for him

[Mia 01]

I belive, weird ofcourse, that Ferrari wants Kimi back. They cant afford him.

[keysersoze]

I believe Massa is out at the end of the year. In past years when Massa was being evaluated, the question of whether any available drivers would be an upgrade was highly doubtful. But this year there seems to be more evidence that Massa is not the best option, and that there are several drivers who could do better. Hulkenberg and Raikonnen surely, and perhaps even di Resta, Perez (not sure is he is contracted to McLaren for '14), Grosjean, and Maldonado.

[steveaki13]

I agree that sadly for Felipe he will probably fall out of Ferrari this year.

However I cannot see Kimi going back to Ferrari (Could be wrong), but as people above said, it wasnt a great period between them before after the title season. Just cant see it Im afraid.

I think Kimi will stay at Lotus one more year if the Red Bull deal doesnt come along then maybe retire again?

[DexDexter]

IS: Kimi Räikkönen siirtymässä Ferrarille - Formula 1 - Urheilu - Helsingin Sanomat (http://www.hs.fi/urheilu/IS+Kimi+R%C3%A4ikk%C3%B6nen+siirtym%C3%A4ss%C3%A4+ Ferrarille/a1376270657978?ref=hs-art-top-1)

According to this, Kimi is going to Ferrari next year. The source, HS (via Iltasanomat) is the biggest newspaper in Finland, not a tabloid.

[pino]

I won't believe it until I will see him sign a contract, but I would love to have him back :up:

[Tazio]

I would also like to see Kimi back at Ferrari, almost as much as I'd like The Boss there. However whatever happens, as fans we should appreciate the fact that we have several former world champions in the field, instead of having petty little arguments about who got slighted where, and when. This is a great period in time for F1 talent wise. Dig it :cool:
BTW It's time for Felipe to go :(

[DexDexter]

I won't believe it until I will see him sign a contract, but I would love to have him back :up:

Yep, I think it's impossible but then again what do I know.

[anfield5]

Maybe I am wrong about Kimi going back to Maranello.

This from Germany - Bild correspondents Nicola Pohl and Helmut Uhl report that Ferrari "has made the Finn an offer".

But as mentioned by others. Until there is ink on paper it is just talk

[easy rider]

However whatever happens, as fans we should appreciate the fact that we have several former world champions in the field, instead of having petty little arguments about who got slighted where, and when. This is a great period in time for F1 talent wise. Dig it :cool:
BTW It's time for Felipe to go :(

Hello everybody!!

Absolutely, the driver lineup among the top runners, Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso,and Raikkonen, can only bring a smile to most F1 fans. Along with the cast who are nipping at their heels...(talent wise) Button, Rosberg Hulkenberg, di Resta, Sutil, and Grojean when he settles down is all good.

[Ranger]

Daily #F1 News and Comment: Wednesday 14th August 2013 | thejudge13 (http://thejudge13.com/2013/08/14/daily-f1-news-and-comment-wednesday-14th-august-2013/#ferrari)
BBC Sport - Kimi Raikkonen 'wants Ferrari return' claims Eddie Jordan (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23761323)

TJ13 and Eddie Jordan have both been on the money with big announcements recently.

I'd be amazed if it wasn't true.

Ricciardo to RBR seems a certainty.

[anfield5]

Daily #F1 News and Comment: Wednesday 14th August 2013 | thejudge13 (http://thejudge13.com/2013/08/14/daily-f1-news-and-comment-wednesday-14th-august-2013/#ferrari)
BBC Sport - Kimi Raikkonen 'wants Ferrari return' claims Eddie Jordan (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23761323)

TJ13 and Eddie Jordan have both been on the money with big announcements recently.

I'd be amazed if it wasn't true.

Ricciardo to RBR seems a certainty.

It will be interesting to see how close to Vettel Daniel can be. In my opinion he is a better driver than Webber (no disrespect aimed at Mark, it is simply a big tick for Ricciardo's talent)

[Mia 01]

I´m troubled, I can´t see any in the current field who could develop to the level of the "big four" in the future.

[zako85]

I am seeing many signs in the press that Sauber is in a big financial trouble. Who could have thought? This may affect their driver decisions. They will probably need to hire someone will solid financial backing.

[Robinho]

It seems that Ricciardo to Red Bull is a done deal (despite the latest that Kimi is still in the hunt), and the Kimi to Ferrari rumours won't go away, which is beginning to make me think they may be real. That puts Massa out of the seat, and probably out of the sport.

Torro Rosso will likely have 1, possibly 2 seats to fill, depending on what they want to do with Vergne, so someone like Da Costa or Sainz may make the step up.

Replacing Kimi probably saves Grosjean, who I think has done enough to retain the seat, for me Hulkenburg would be a good fit at Lotus and would free up a seat for Sirotkin and all his Russian cash at Sauber. I would also like t see maybe Alguesari given a chance at Lotus, I think he still has something to offer.

McLaren, Force India, Mercedes stay unchanged, the guys at the back could do anything, dpending on how much money they need

[Koz]

So, apparently now Alonso is trying to get Santander to move to Lotus...

Kimi doesn't care about money, all he wants is Renault?

[airshifter]

So, apparently now Alonso is trying to get Santander to move to Lotus...

Kimi doesn't care about money, all he wants is Renault?

I hadn't heard about the Santander thing... interesting.

And to quote something I posted earlier:


Just food for thought... from Kimi's Facebook page after the race today....

#Raikkonen (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/raikkonen): Lotus Ferrari Mclaren Red Bull wants me

I'm not sure if Kimi still has options and is weighing them, or if the money/contract issues aren't working. At some point we will find out I guess.

[Parabolica]

The Santander/Alonso/Lotus speculation can be filed under "2 + 2 = 73"

[jens]

Silly season has been pretty strange recently. In fact I have got tired of it and don't take it really seriously. Alonso to Red Bull? Räikkönen to anywhere? Yeah, whatever. Will get a headache if you try to think too much about it. Just let's wait and see what happens.

Thinking logically... I don't think Alonso moves anywhere. Kimi is a bit tricky. I didn't think Ferrari would make sense for him, but he can be a mysterious driver on the grid, so who knows.

Also wondering whether di Resta or Hülkenberg could possibly get a graduation to Lotus or Ferrari team.

[jens]

It will be interesting to see how close to Vettel Daniel can be. In my opinion he is a better driver than Webber (no disrespect aimed at Mark, it is simply a big tick for Ricciardo's talent)

A very optimistic view on Ricciardo it has to be said. To be frank, in my view Ricciardo is yet to prove himself on the kind of level Webber proved. Like Ricciardo, Webber also had very impressive qualifying sessions early in his career, particularly in Jaguar. And in 2003 Webber had a very impressive season on the whole, collecting many 6th and 7th place finishes. I am yet to see Ricciardo possessing that kind of consistency.

[Parabolica]

To be frank, nothing I have seen gives the impression that Ricciardo can cut it amongst the big boys.

A couple of good qualifying sessions are not enough.

[zako85]

To be frank, nothing I have seen gives the impression that Ricciardo can cut it amongst the big boys.

A couple of good qualifying sessions are not enough.


You may be right. When a seat opens at a top team, I often think about how Ayrton Senna got into McLaren seat in 1988. He spent a year racing at Toleman and then three at Lotus, won numerous podiums (including three at Toleman) and races and only then he got a seat in McLaren. Schumacher also put out some phenomenally good performance at Benetton before moving to Ferrari.

Now, what did Ricciardo do? Raikkonen is a far more deserving of RBR's seat. One can argue that STR cars are not fast, but whatever Ricciardo did at STR still does not stand out a lot. How about at least one podium or a front row start position? To me, a more logical progression would be to see Raikkonen move to RBR, and Ricciardo to Lotus. Despite a few nice races, today's Lotus cars are about on the same level as the original Team Lotus in the mid-80s. They're a great proving ground for up and coming pilots.

[DexDexter]

You may be right. When a seat opens at a top team, I often think about how Ayrton Senna got into McLaren seat in 1988. He spent a year racing at Toleman and then three at Lotus, won numerous podiums (including three at Toleman) and races and only then he got a seat in McLaren. Schumacher also put out some phenomenally good performance at Benetton before moving to Ferrari.

Now, what did Ricciardo do? Raikkonen is a far more deserving of RBR's seat. One can argue that STR cars are not fast, but whatever Ricciardo did at STR still does not stand out a lot. How about at least one podium or a front row start position? To me, a more logical progression would be to see Raikkonen move to RBR, and Ricciardo to Lotus. Despite a few nice races, today's Lotus cars are about on the same level as the original Team Lotus in the mid-80s. They're a great proving ground for up and coming pilots.

To me it's hard to judge a driver based on his performances at STR, they (the team) seem to be the most inconsistent team out there. Usually they have a few races where they are extremely competitive and then they suddenly fall off. The drivers are never comfortable in the team because there is always the potential axe hanging over them, so to me the team is a total failure.

[555-04Q2]

To me it's hard to judge a driver based on his performances at STR, they (the team) seem to be the most inconsistent team out there. Usually they have a few races where they are extremely competitive and then they suddenly fall off. The drivers are never comfortable in the team because there is always the potential axe hanging over them, so to me the team is a total failure.

I've had the same thoughts for a while now. As you mention, it is hard to get on with the job when you don't know what tomorrow holds for you. Their policy of giving as many young drivers as possible a chance is a good one, but it does also affect them. But, they did launch Seb into the limelight and he's never looked back :)

[steveaki13]

A very optimistic view on Ricciardo it has to be said. To be frank, in my view Ricciardo is yet to prove himself on the kind of level Webber proved. Like Ricciardo, Webber also had very impressive qualifying sessions early in his career, particularly in Jaguar. And in 2003 Webber had a very impressive season on the whole, collecting many 6th and 7th place finishes. I am yet to see Ricciardo possessing that kind of consistency.

I agree, he has not stood to me that much, like Alonso, Kimi & Seb did in his early career.


To be frank, nothing I have seen gives the impression that Ricciardo can cut it amongst the big boys.

A couple of good qualifying sessions are not enough.

True enough, its going to be a tough step up that could end up in a Webber style collapse.


I've had the same thoughts for a while now. As you mention, it is hard to get on with the job when you don't know what tomorrow holds for you. Their policy of giving as many young drivers as possible a chance is a good one, but it does also affect them. But, they did launch Seb into the limelight and he's never looked back :)

True enough, I mean Seb is the perfect example of how Toro Rosso can work for Red Bull. Thus youngsters need oppotunities and he has a great chance, he musnt let it slip away.

[TheFamousEccles]

A short biography of Daniel Ricciardo:

Karting from age 9 to 16 with victories in numerous state and national championships.

Drove Formula Ford in Perth, Australia.

Winner of Formula BMW Asia Pacific Scholarship.

Competed in Formula BMW Asian Championship, finishing third in the series with 2 race wins, 1 pole position and 12 podium finishes in 19 starts.

Formula BMW World Final, Valencia, Spain, finishing fifth with Fortec team. Presented with Outstanding Achievement Award by BMW Motorsport chief Dr Mario Thiessen.

Italian Formula Renault 2.0 Championship with RP Motorsport.

Selected for Red Bull Junior Team 2008

Formula Renault 2.0 West European Championship series winner - 8 race wins, 9 pole positions, 11 podium finishes.

Formula Renault 2.0 Eurocup series runner-up - 6 race wins, 5 poles, 7 podiums

British Formula 3 Championship winner with Carlin Motorsport - 7 race wins, 6 poles, 12 podiums

Having followed in the footsteps of the likes of Ayrton Senna in winning the British F3 title, I was chosen by Red Bull Racing to participate in an end-of-season F1 test for rookies at Jerez in Spain, where I clocked the fastest time of the test. My performance earned me the role as test and reserve driver for Red Bull Racing and Scuderia Toro Rosso in 2010.

World Series by Renault 3.5 Championship with Tech 1 - series record 8 pole positions, 4 race wins - including the prestigious support race at the Monaco Grand Prix - and 8 podiums to be overall runner-up.

Reserve driver Red Bull Racing and Scuderia Toro Rosso

I began the year driving for Scuderia Toro Rosso in Friday morning F1 practice sessions at GPs and racing again in the World Series by Renault 3.5 Championship for the ISR team, winning the Monaco Grand Prix support race for the second consecutive time.

Mid-year I was elevated to F1 race driver with the HRT team, for which I drove in 11 GPs. While gaining valuable GP racing experience, I continued my duties with Red Bull Racing, including many hours "driving" its F1 simulator at the team's headquarters in Milton Keynes, England.

Red Bull Racing named me in December as a full-time race driver for Scuderia Toro Rosso in 2012.

(lifted from DR website)

Additional:

Ricciardo made his track debut at the wheel of a Formula One (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One) car, when he tested for Red Bull Racing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_Racing) at the young drivers test at Circuito de Jerez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuito_de_Jerez) over three days, from 1–3 December 2009. On the final day of testing he clocked the fastest time of the test by over a second. This placed him as the only driver to go into the 1:17 bracket. Red Bull Racing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_Racing)'s team manager Christian Horner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Horner) suggested that Ricciardo may replace his 2010 World Series team-mate Hartley as the team's test and reserve driver. As it turned out, Ricciardo and Hartley were to share test and reserve duties for both Red Bull, and sister team Scuderia Toro Rosso (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuderia_Toro_Rosso) until the latter was removed from the Red Bull Junior team.

On 11 November 2010, Ricciardo was confirmed as the single driver to represent Red Bull Racing at the end-of-season young drivers test at the Yas Marina Circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yas_Marina_Circuit), on 16–17 November. At the announcement, he commented, "I can't wait to get another crack at driving Red Bull Racing's amazing Formula One car." Ricciardo continued to show his one-lap prowess and dominated the event. With his fastest lap being 1.3 seconds faster than 2010 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Formula_One_season) World Champion Sebastian Vettel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Vettel)'s qualifying lap the Saturday before. (lifted from Wikipedia - my emphasis)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, not really done enough to impress? Doesn't deserve a crack at a decent car? Hmm...

And no spurious comparisons to SV - the STR car he had the fortune to inherit was a Newey car, and he is also a prodigious talent (This is high praise from me, as I don't rate him as a racer, but he can cut very fast laps with no interference).

I think any team might look at DR's history and (stupid financial concerns aside) snap him up! The usual disclaimer applies here :vader:

[Parabolica]

Not as good a CV as Liuzzi had pre-F1, and look how that turned out.

It was obvious Vettel had quality, not so with Ricciardo.

Comparing lap times on different days, with different tyres? Please forgive me, but that is a spurious comparison in itself?

[Parabolica]

Back to the topic of the thread.

Will there be any opportunity for this years GP2 front-runners?

It was a shame for Sam Bird that he was the innocent victim of Mercedes GP's tyre-test punishment. I can't see anywhere for the current front-runners other than maybe Marrussia though.

[zako85]

Speaking of which.. is there any hope still left for Massa in F1 if Raikkonen moves to Ferrari? I heard he could be a good fit for Lotus. Any ideas?

[jens]

I seriously think Massa lost something with the accident, because each season he has been incapable of putting in more than 3-4 strong drives and has big problems with any kind of consistency, more so than ever before. Hülkenberg fits Lotus better.

I see retirement for Massa. By F1 standards he isn't really that old yet (32), but then again Ralf Schumacher retired at 32 and Häkkinen at 33 too. Villeneuve got booted from BAR and out of F1 (though for one season only) at 32. All of them left after an underwhelming season.

[steveaki13]

Massa's only hope is bringing some money back to Sauber.Other than that I see him leaving F1.

[anfield5]

I seriously think Massa lost something with the accident, because each season he has been incapable of putting in more than 3-4 strong drives and has big problems with any kind of consistency, more so than ever before. Hülkenberg fits Lotus better.

I see retirement for Massa. By F1 standards he isn't really that old yet (32), but then again Ralf Schumacher retired at 32 and Häkkinen at 33 too. Villeneuve got booted from BAR and out of F1 (though for one season only) at 32. All of them left after an underwhelming season.

I think you are correct re the aftermath of the accident, I don't think many (if any) of us quite realise how bad the accident was and how much it possibly damaged Massa's psyche and confidence.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I seriously think Massa lost something with the accident, because each season he has been incapable of putting in more than 3-4 strong drives and has big problems with any kind of consistency, more so than ever before. Hülkenberg fits Lotus better.

The crucial break in Massa's career wasn't the accident, it was the 2010 German Grand Prix. He started 2010 with two podium positions, so he didn't lose much of his speed in the aftermath of the accident IMHO. What completely destroyed him was being ordered back from the lead, even though team orders were forbidden at the time. He never recovered from that humiliation. Ferrari broke his will in that race. Since then he knew that he would never be allowed to win a race again as long as Fernando was still in the race.

[DazzlaF1]

Back to the topic of the thread.

Will there be any opportunity for this years GP2 front-runners?

It was a shame for Sam Bird that he was the innocent victim of Mercedes GP's tyre-test punishment. I can't see anywhere for the current front-runners other than maybe Marrussia though.

Well James Calado's already been confirmed as Force India's new reserve and test driver, as for Bird, I think that him missing the tyre test wount harm him too much and of the current crop in GP2, those 2 are probably the ones with the biggest potential.

Mitch Evans is one for the future though but despite his young age, he's still managed 4 podium finishes in his first GP2 season so far, not bad going

The main issue though in GP2, GP3 and Renault 3.5 is very worrying if youre a follower of Italian drivers, In all 3 championships, there is currently only ONE full time driver racing, Giovanni Venturini, and he in GP3 at the moment is only 14th overall, the only other current Italian driver is Vittorio Ghirelli in GP2, and he's currently 30th without a point yet, it makes you wonder what the heck has happened to Italian drivers, Its a far cry from the late 80's when If I remember there was one Grand Prix when nearly half the grid was Italian

[donKey jote]

Go Prince Carlos ! :andrea:

[Malbec]

It was obvious Vettel had quality, not so with Ricciardo.

Isn't this the point though, that Vettel will not be challenged TOO hard by Ricciardo? What they want is someone like Webber, quick enough to get solid points and threaten Ferrari/Mercedes/McLaren but not quite quick enough over a season to threaten their Wunderkind.

It looks increasingly likely that Sirotkin will be in the second Sauber seat, the other drive will probably be up for grabs if as suspected the Mexican money switches to McLaren for next season.

[RS]

It sounds increasingly likely that Button will stay at McLaren, which leaves Kimi either back at Ferrari or staying with Lotus. Hopefully Hulkenburg will get whichever seat Kimi does not.

I'm just not sure Kimi is a Ferrari type person really. Probably a more interesting situation would have been Kimi back to McLaren, Button to Ferrari and Hulkenburg at Lotus.

But in the end I guess there won't be many changes and both Button and Raikkonen will stay where they are and hopefully Hulkenburg will go to Ferrari.

I really hope Ferrari don't keep Massa. Nothing against the guy, but he hasn't produced any really inspiring performances for ages.

I can see Sutil ending up at Sauber with Medion money if Force India go for Calado next year.

[zako85]

Massa's only hope is bringing some money back to Sauber.Other than that I see him leaving F1.

I am curious where would he go next. It would be nice to see him at some kind of top level racing events, like racing LMP cars.

[zako85]

If Ferrari's team order is what destroyed Massa, then perhaps moving to another Formula 1 team that would treat him as their first driver would bring back hid mojo? It would be interesting to see him switching places with Raikkonen.

[555-04Q2]

I am curious where would he go next. It would be nice to see him at some kind of top level racing events, like racing LMP cars.

The Ferrari family like Massa immensely. I doubt they would drop him for someone else while Fernando is there.

[jens]

The crucial break in Massa's career wasn't the accident, it was the 2010 German Grand Prix. He started 2010 with two podium positions, so he didn't lose much of his speed in the aftermath of the accident IMHO.

To be honest, I never felt Massa had spectacular speed after the accident except the odd occasion. Yes, he got two podiums in early 2010, but neither of them were spectacular drives. He has got podiums later too (2010, 2012, 2013). Also it is worth noting Alonso was new to the team, so still adapting to the car, yet outraced Massa immediately in Bahrain. Vettel got a car problem and others weren't in contention, so Felipe was second. In Australia Alonso finished right behind Massa, despite having an accident in T1 and dropping to the back of the field.

Standard Massa drives of the last 3-4 years, just Ferrari happened to be pretty good in the early part of 2010. And by Germany Massa had dropped behind Alonso in points by 67-98 already anyway. And that was despite Alonso making several mistakes and having the biggest period of underperfoming of his Ferrari career.

Perhaps the best drives of Massa since 2010 have been either China 2011 or Japan 2012.

I think the suggestion that Massa could keep driving for Ferrari in WEC or something like that, sounds sensible.

[steveaki13]

To be honest, I never felt Massa had spectacular speed after the accident except the odd occasion. Yes, he got two podiums in early 2010, but neither of them were spectacular drives. He has got podiums later too (2010, 2012, 2013). Also it is worth noting Alonso was new to the team, so still adapting to the car, yet outraced Massa immediately in Bahrain. Vettel got a car problem and others weren't in contention, so Felipe was second. In Australia Alonso finished right behind Massa, despite having an accident in T1 and dropping to the back of the field.

Standard Massa drives of the last 3-4 years, just Ferrari happened to be pretty good in the early part of 2010. And by Germany Massa had dropped behind Alonso in points by 67-98 already anyway. And that was despite Alonso making several mistakes and having the biggest period of underperfoming of his Ferrari career.

Perhaps the best drives of Massa since 2010 have been either China 2011 or Japan 2012.

I think the suggestion that Massa could keep driving for Ferrari in WEC or something like that, sounds sensible.
I agree really, I think driving for Ferrari in WEC would be a sensible decision.

[Tazio]

Meanwhile seen at FP2:

http://images.f-e-n.net/134494/5721d7ab70f1f245dd85c687c4dd327b.jpg

:confused: :s tareup:http://i46.tinypic.com/hv9ul3.gif :p :

[AndyL]

Sky reported that on Jean Alesi on French TV said that he heard Alonso saying on team radio after qualy today (in Italian): "you are stupid, you are all stupid, you ruined my qualifying." If that proves to be accurate once all the Chinese whispers are unwound, then maybe Massa's seat is safe. If Alonso wants out, I can't see Ferrari replacing both drivers in the same year.

[Tazio]

What I think he said was "Boys, you are a bunch of idiots, my god" and “You're genius". Frustration from Zo, he will apologize, and the team will get over it methinks

Edit:He also may have meant to say collectively they are idiots, includng himself. :uhoh:
Perhaps we should wait untill we hear the entire transmission :bulb:

[dj_bytedisaster]

What I think he said was "Boys, you are a bunch of idiots, my god" and “You're genius". Frustration from Zo, he will apologize, and the team will get over it methinks.

The last one who said something like this was fired before the last race. His name: Alain Prost.

[Tazio]

Or Zo is in complete denial :confused:
Italian GP: Fernando Alonso denies being angry at Ferrari tactics - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109711)

[donKey jote]

"yuz are a bunch of donkeys" :laugh:
Alonso: (http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2013/09/06/actualidad/1378493526_442158.html)

[Tazio]

Fernando was clearly annoyed that a negative message that showed him criticising the team, when the plan for a tow appeared to be unravelling, had been played on TV.

“In Q3 we had Vergne in the middle out of Turn 4,” he said. “And then I was ready to take the slipstream of Vergne, because he seemed to want to follow Felipe at that stage. So I prepared the tyres a little bit, and then he let me by, and I had no one in front.

“So I said on the radio Felipe is too far away now if we want to do this, so they slowed down him and he was waiting a little bit in Parabolica, so we started the last attempt more or less the same distance as always.

“I just have to say thank you to the team and thank you to Felipe again for this tenth that helped me to do the last attempt in Q3. They didn’t put the last radio message when I said thank you to the team, thank you to Felipe, it was perfect at the end.
Damage control?
Fernando Alonso: (http://adamcooperf1.com/2013/09/07/fernando-alonso-i-will-be-able-to-see-the-red-bull-rea-wings-on-the-grid/)

[jens]

I am clearly not in favour of lambasting drivers, when they are in the heat of the moment. Many drivers have been bashed for it. Heck, and while they are there inside all the actions, people on forums have been saying all kinds of things in the heat of the moment. :p :

I would be very surprised if the Alonso-Ferrari relationship breaks down. Alonso has nowhere else to go (read: a very competitive team with long-term future) and Ferrari would struggle to find a replacement to a driver, who consistently brings so good results. Alonso can get emotional and is frustrated that YET again he is not going to win the World Championship, but outside the heat of the moment he will understand that the best and only option is to deal with it and keep driving for Ferrari, even if it doesn't bring desired results.

[janneppi]

Alonso's whinging just happened to come out in the perfect time.
Not that long ago he, in public was critical of his teams effort and this weekend he started with a PR friendly "hugs and kisses approach" Had it been pretty much any weekend other than this, it wouldn't be an issue at all.

If the team is smart they will copy Lotus and print out a batch of Ferrari t-shirts with Alonso's comments ;)

[truefan72]

Ferrari aanounced that they will be making an annoucm ent on the 2nd driver shortly

I think with the Huklkenberg p3 he just might have secured that 2nd ferrari seat
Unless kimi swoops in
to me it is down to those 2

Either way Hulk is sitting pretty
If kim goes to ferrari, he will surely join Renault
If kimi stays at Renault, he will join Ferrari

There is an extreme outside chance that kobayashi might get that 2nd ferrari seat

[rjbetty]

Well it's sad to see that Massa's season appears to have fizzled out after such a strong and encouraging start. I was never a huge fan of the guy but his early season was great to see and it was a feel-good moment for him to get the podium from 9th on the grid at Barcelona.

How come his season managed to slip away again after 1 mistake in Monaco? Everyone makes mistakes. Its as if he's being too hard on himself; he was doing very well.

But Hulkenberg has to now get a top drive somewhere. He's just too talented not to. Amazing to find out his result today!

[steveaki13]

Well it's sad to see that Massa's season appears to have fizzled out after such a strong and encouraging start. I was never a huge fan of the guy but his early season was great to see and it was a feel-good moment for him to get the podium from 9th on the grid at Barcelona.How come his season managed to slip away again after 1 mistake in Monaco? Everyone makes mistakes. Its as if he's being too hard on himself; he was doing very well.But Hulkenberg has to now get a top drive somewhere. He's just too talented not to. Amazing to find out his result today!Hulkenberg was amazing, I hope he can battle at the front at least for a while. Sadly he will probably tumble down the order.

[truefan72]

rumor has it that kimi has signed for ferrari for 2 years $50 mill + an option for the third year
ORF tv is reporting this,, as a strong but unconfirmed rumor

If that is true, let us hope that Hulkenberg gets the Renault seat

things are hotting up

[dj_bytedisaster]

I think Alonso is out, After yesterdays team radio - he's had it. Kimi #1, Hülkenberg gets the second seat and Felipe returns to Sauber.

[truefan72]

rumor has it that kimi has signed for ferrari for 2 years $50 mill + an option for the third year
ORF tv is reporting this,, as a strong but unconfirmed rumor

If that is true, let us hope that Hulkenberg gets the Renault seat

things are hotting up

[dj_bytedisaster]

Tr72, if page says 'leave', do so, but CTRL+C your text. The posting subroutine on here is a bit wonky ;)

[truefan72]

forum doubleposted my post for some reason :rolleyes:

[dj_bytedisaster]

Forum software is buggy. Not your fault.

[steveaki13]

If its Kimi and Nico at Ferrari, Massa at Sauber. Maybe Zo will return to his old team a 3rd time? Lotus/was Renault?

[Malbec]

I think Alonso is out, After yesterdays team radio - he's had it. Kimi #1, Hülkenberg gets the second seat and Felipe returns to Sauber.

Alonso will stay at Ferrari, its not his seat thats in question. Ferrari know his worth and the other drivers anywhere near as good are happy where they are. He is currently irreplaceable. Much though I like Kimi's second stint in F1 (didn't have much time for him the first time round but I'm supporting him this time) he is not quite as capable all-round as Alonso.

I agree Massa should be replaced, frankly its long overdue. Where I disagree is with this belief that he'll get a drive at another team like Sauber. Why would they want him? He's old enough that he no longer has any potential to improve, we know that he's simply not that quick most of the season and the fact that he can be as quick as Alonso for about 30% of races isn't good enough to compensate. He doesn't bring cash.

He's going to drop out of F1 completely if Ferrari drop him, probably to WEC where he'd be quite decent.

[donKey jote]

preliminary reports from Spanish and German rags suggest Massa is out and Kimi is in :sailor:

[steveaki13]

With Fred/Zo. That will be tasty.

[TMorel]

A very nice touch from Ferrari to allow Felipe to break the news himself, a bit of dignity not normally permitted in F1.

[steveaki13]

I agree. I would like to see Massa get one more year out of Alonso's shadow and just see if he has really lost it.

[easy rider]

If that is true, let us hope that Hulkenberg gets the Renault seat

things are hotting up

Absolutely.....I was hoping to see Nico at Ferrari, Kimi at Red Bull, but if Kimi goes back to the Scuderia, and Hulkenberg takes his seat at Lotus.....good!

[N. Jones]

But where does Massa go? Back to Sauber? I highly doubt he would go to Red Bull. Since Kimi is off to Ferrari I can only assume that Ricciardo is going to be Vettel's #2.

Hulkenberg to Lotus would be awesome!

[Robinho]

It seems that Ricciardo to Red Bull is a done deal (despite the latest that Kimi is still in the hunt), and the Kimi to Ferrari rumours won't go away, which is beginning to make me think they may be real. That puts Massa out of the seat, and probably out of the sport.

Torro Rosso will likely have 1, possibly 2 seats to fill, depending on what they want to do with Vergne, so someone like Da Costa or Sainz may make the step up.

Replacing Kimi probably saves Grosjean, who I think has done enough to retain the seat, for me Hulkenburg would be a good fit at Lotus and would free up a seat for Sirotkin and all his Russian cash at Sauber. I would also like t see maybe Alguesari given a chance at Lotus, I think he still has something to offer.

McLaren, Force India, Mercedes stay unchanged, the guys at the back could do anything, dpending on how much money they need

Just quoting myself here from a few weeks ago, all I need is Hulk at Lotus to replace Kimi and I shall call myself the oracle!

[truefan72]

yup my predictions too are holding true
the only real remaining seat is at STR
if I were them, I would offer the seat back to Buemi and let DaCosta and sainz mature another year

Sauber are in a real pickle IMO 2 paid drivers and IMO 2 poor drivers, Sirotkin doesn't even have a super license
So while they may be financially secure, they are going nowhere with clearly the weakest 2 drivers of the entire grid for 2014
I also have a sneaky suspicion that their 2014 car will be decent.
The smart thing fro them to do would be to hire kobayashi and let Guiterrez and sirotkin share that 2nd seat

Massa is out of f1 IMO. He had one solid year in 2008 with a good car, and TBH without FIA interference would have lost that championship bid, much earlier.
It is a minor miracle that he squeezed out 2 more years from ferrari. I know driving next to Alonso and being relegated to a clear #2 were tough situations, and he should have won in Hockenheim, but there have been enough abysmal performances to warrant his release.

If there were a 13th and 14th F1 team like it was supposed to be, then he would have had a seat for sure. but the FIA and their nonsensical system, along with Max Mosley's stupidity back in the day means we are down 4 driver slots and some decent drivers are on the outside looking in. Petrov, Buemi, Alguersarri, Kovaleinen, Kobayashi, Senna, Valsecchi and now Massa ( to a lesser extend) can all be argued to be still driving in F1.

[RS]

Unless Massa has a sponsorship package behind him I think he will find it very hard to find a seat for next year. There's too many teams needing money and too many talented drivers around and he's not exactly looking like hot property after the last couple of years.

[easy rider]

But where does Massa go? Back to Sauber? I highly doubt he would go to Red Bull. Since Kimi is off to Ferrari I can only assume that Ricciardo is going to be Vettel's #2.

Hulkenberg to Lotus would be awesome!

Felipe may stay at home, and join Barrichello in the Brazilian stock car series.

[N. Jones]

True. I don't know where is will end up but there is no hurt in speculating.

[zako85]

I wish that Hulkenberg gets the seat at Lotus. The seats assignments at the top five for the last five years were kind of stale. They were mostly assigned to senior drivers, except for Grosjean and Perez. This needs to change, specially since Massa hasn't exactly set race tracks on fire. He had his long run, and its now time to let the younger drivers have a chance at driving a better car.

[DexDexter]

Unless Massa has a sponsorship package behind him I think he will find it very hard to find a seat for next year. There's too many teams needing money and too many talented drivers around and he's not exactly looking like hot property after the last couple of years.
I agree, I think it's quite likely that we'll never see him again in F1 after this year. Why would anybody hire him?

[Bagwan]

Unless Massa has a sponsorship package behind him I think he will find it very hard to find a seat for next year. There's too many teams needing money and too many talented drivers around and he's not exactly looking like hot property after the last couple of years.
I agree, I think it's quite likely that we'll never see him again in F1 after this year. Why would anybody hire him?

Firstly , as he's been no hot property for a while , he wouldn't be asking a high salary .
Secondly , he's being touted as a great team player , and that is worth a lot .

And , thirdly , and perhaps most importantly , he's coming from a front runner , and knows the Ferrari process for making a team fast .

[DexDexter]

Unless Massa has a sponsorship package behind him I think he will find it very hard to find a seat for next year. There's too many teams needing money and too many talented drivers around and he's not exactly looking like hot property after the last couple of years.
I agree, I think it's quite likely that we'll never see him again in F1 after this year. Why would anybody hire him?

Firstly , as he's been no hot property for a while , he wouldn't be asking a high salary .
Secondly , he's being touted as a great team player , and that is worth a lot .

And , thirdly , and perhaps most importantly , he's coming from a front runner , and knows the Ferrari process for making a team fast .

The problem is Massa's options are midfield teams who are struggling financially and will most likely hire a young charger with some backing rather than a guy who was good in 2009.

[easy rider]

True. I don't know where is will end up but there is no hurt in speculating.

Absolutely not.....There is some speculation that Massa may wind up at lotus, which I find that to be incredible if that was to happen, especially with Hulkenberg waiting in the wings.

[Mia 01]

I very much would like Hulkenberg to take Kimis seat next year. Nico deserves a good car, as a driver he is on par with the other Nico.

[steveaki13]

Hulkenberg to Lotus is the least he deserves, he has been good enough to be in a top car for the last couple of seasons.

If Felipe cant get a Sauber seat I think he will be out of F1, I cant see him going to Caterham or Marussia.

[easy rider]

If Lotus doesn't pick up The Hulk, which would be borderline criminal, then Whitmarsh would be negligent not to make contact with him.

[anfield5]

Is Hulk really better than Perez though. Last year they both did enough to be given the opportunity in a decent car, unfortunately for Sergio this year's McLaren is a long way short of being a decent car. So far this season he has done as well as can be expected, usually bringing a slow car home in or close to the points.

If Renault (sorry I refuse to call the Lotus because they are NOT lotus) don't grab the Hulk, who will they go for? I can't see any other decent driver being available, unless they opt for the experience that Massa could bring, and who knows in a new environment the old competitive Massa might just reappear

[Parabolica]

I can see why people can't bring themselves to call the current Enstone incarnation by its current moniker, but with due respect it isn't Renault anymore and certainly wasn't the Equipe Renault Elf of yore.

I truly don't expect anyone to pay any notice, but the team in question didn't start life as Renault.

Or Benetton, for that matter.

It didn't even start in Enstone, either, so the E tag on the car is a slightly misleading one, albeit one which indicates, I think, the number of models made in Enstone?

Anyhow, back to the Silly Season.

If Hulkenburg doesn't get the Lotus seat, this isn't Silly Season. It's Really Silly Season.

[Tazio]

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/3003 ... tus-talks/ (http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/300328/massa-describes-positive-lotus-talks/)
I want Felipe to get the ride at Lotus so he can finally prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is faster, and a much better all around racer than Fred. :dog: :stareup: :stareup: :sailor: :burp:

[jas123f1]

I would too would like to see Felippe at Lotus, it would be an honest opportunity for him after years as Alonso's sidekick ..

[anfield5]

I can see why people can't bring themselves to call the current Enstone incarnation by its current moniker, but with due respect it isn't Renault anymore and certainly wasn't the Equipe Renault Elf of yore.

I truly don't expect anyone to pay any notice, but the team in question didn't start life as Renault.

Or Benetton, for that matter.

It didn't even start in Enstone, either, so the E tag on the car is a slightly misleading one, albeit one which indicates, I think, the number of models made in Enstone?

Anyhow, back to the Silly Season.

If Hulkenburg doesn't get the Lotus seat, this isn't Silly Season. It's Really Silly Season.

Quite right about their heritage, they are in fact Toleman, but the reason I wont call them lotus is because Lotus are on the cars as a marque owned by sponsors Proton, it would be like calling McLaren a Vodafone or Ferrari a Shell/Marlboro. At least when they were known as Renault, Renault sport did buy the team from benetton.

[anfield5]

Back to the thread. Looking at how Massa drove pre Alonso, he was fast and consistent, I'm wondering how much being tagged as a number 2 driver has effected his confidence. Sure that aweful incident in Hungary didn't help, but was the accident the thing that really put his career on the back slide. I would love the Enstone team to give him a chance to prove his worth, but I would also love to see the Hulk in a car able to win races as well.

[AndyL]

Quite right about their heritage, they are in fact Toleman, but the reason I wont call them lotus is because Lotus are on the cars as a marque owned by sponsors Proton, it would be like calling McLaren a Vodafone or Ferrari a Shell/Marlboro. At least when they were known as Renault, Renault sport did buy the team from benetton.

It's also confusing because there have been two different teams called Lotus in the last 3 years. I was reading something recently about a driver being offered a contract by Lotus a few years ago, and I was left wondering whether it meant the team that's Lotus now or the team that was Lotus at the time the offer was made.

[Bagwan]

Back to the thread. Looking at how Massa drove pre Alonso, he was fast and consistent, I'm wondering how much being tagged as a number 2 driver has effected his confidence. Sure that aweful incident in Hungary didn't help, but was the accident the thing that really put his career on the back slide. I would love the Enstone team to give him a chance to prove his worth, but I would also love to see the Hulk in a car able to win races as well.

We could see some fireworks at the next race , as Massa said this to his Brazilian fans the other day :
“I will not race for Alonso from now on. From Friday in Singapore I will be working for myself.” .

[henners88]

Quite right about their heritage, they are in fact Toleman, but the reason I wont call them lotus is because Lotus are on the cars as a marque owned by sponsors Proton, it would be like calling McLaren a Vodafone or Ferrari a Shell/Marlboro. At least when they were known as Renault, Renault sport did buy the team from benetton.

It's also confusing because there have been two different teams called Lotus in the last 3 years. I was reading something recently about a driver being offered a contract by Lotus a few years ago, and I was left wondering whether it meant the team that's Lotus now or the team that was Lotus at the time the offer was made.
I agree and Lotus for me in this case is the title sponsor rather than the historical Lotus we know and loved. When I see the Black car of Kimi and Romain I still associate it with Renault as they were the last manufacturer at that team. As long as we know what we mean I don't think it makes too much difference. Lotus, Renault, Enstone team whatever. :)

[Tazio]

Back to the thread. Looking at how Massa drove pre Alonso, he was fast and consistent, I'm wondering how much being tagged as a number 2 driver has effected his confidence. Sure that aweful incident in Hungary didn't help, but was the accident the thing that really put his career on the back slide. I would love the Enstone team to give him a chance to prove his worth, but I would also love to see the Hulk in a car able to win races as well.

We could see some fireworks at the next race , as Massa said this to his Brazilian fans the other day :
“I will not race for Alonso from now on. From Friday in Singapore I will be working for myself.” .
Good, maybe he can score enough points to help Ferrari secure 2nd place in the WDC. A win win for Ferrari in my way of thinking :idea:

[Bagwan]

Back to the thread. Looking at how Massa drove pre Alonso, he was fast and consistent, I'm wondering how much being tagged as a number 2 driver has effected his confidence. Sure that aweful incident in Hungary didn't help, but was the accident the thing that really put his career on the back slide. I would love the Enstone team to give him a chance to prove his worth, but I would also love to see the Hulk in a car able to win races as well.

We could see some fireworks at the next race , as Massa said this to his Brazilian fans the other day :
“I will not race for Alonso from now on. From Friday in Singapore I will be working for myself.” .
Good, maybe he can score enough points to help Ferrari secure 2nd place in the WDC. A win win for Ferrari in my way of thinking :idea:

For me , it's that last shred of dignity that he had , gone .
For all the crap he's taken , for being the lap dog , he had my respect for following orders .

With this little pram toss , I could see him turfed before the end , which would be a sad end for wee Mousa .

The spitting Luca is not impressed . It may not take long .

[kfzmeister]

Yeah, DiMussolini already quoted as saying Massa will surely be a team player. I mean why is Massa so pissed about getting axed now? I don't get it

BTW, I hate this new forum look. Hard to determine which thread is the one i want to enter into (they all flow together on the front page). When i'm finally reading through posts, it's hard to discern where one post stops and another one begins. And what is it with all the quotes within a quote within a quote, within a quote??? What happened to the old forum? I may leave (where's my f%&*@ing emoticon?)

[donKey jote]

And what is it with all the quotes within a quote within a quote, within a quote???
it means the quote tags work as they should, unlike in the old forum ;) :p

[Malbec]

We could see some fireworks at the next race , as Massa said this to his Brazilian fans the other day :
“I will not race for Alonso from now on. From Friday in Singapore I will be working for myself.” .

I don't get why he would say rubbish like this. If he suddenly improves performance then it'll look like he was deliberately holding back before and if he doesn't improve then people will note that Massa when he takes his gloves off is as rubbish as he was when he was holding back. Its a lose-lose situation all of his own making.

[Parabolica]

I think Massa is probably talking to himself anyway.

He wasn't Alonso's lap-dog earlier in the season, but failed to push himself in front in the pecking order.

He wasn't Alonso's Number 2 early in 2012, but was miles away in performance terms.

He wasn't Alonso's Number 2 at any point in 2011, as the championship was well beyond reach for Maranello, yet again he was nowhere near.

Yes, occassionally Massa is on a level with Alonso. It's a rare event though.

I'd be surprised if it happens more than a couple of times between now and the end of the season. Which won't be enough to get him a drive in anything half decent, I suspect.

[Bagwan]

I think Massa is probably talking to himself anyway.

He wasn't Alonso's lap-dog earlier in the season, but failed to push himself in front in the pecking order.

He wasn't Alonso's Number 2 early in 2012, but was miles away in performance terms.

He wasn't Alonso's Number 2 at any point in 2011, as the championship was well beyond reach for Maranello, yet again he was nowhere near.

Yes, occassionally Massa is on a level with Alonso. It's a rare event though.

I'd be surprised if it happens more than a couple of times between now and the end of the season. Which won't be enough to get him a drive in anything half decent, I suspect.

You mean "Oops , did I say that out loud ?" ?

I don't think so .
His Brazilian fans wanted to hear it , but now he is joking with spitting Luca about it .

How is that going to go down in Brazil ?
Who's side is he on ?

Will he still be the favourite driver in Brazilian stock cars ?

[Koz]

I think Massa is probably talking to himself anyway.

He wasn't Alonso's lap-dog earlier in the season, but failed to push himself in front in the pecking order.

He wasn't Alonso's Number 2 early in 2012, but was miles away in performance terms.

He wasn't Alonso's Number 2 at any point in 2011, as the championship was well beyond reach for Maranello, yet again he was nowhere near.

Yes, occassionally Massa is on a level with Alonso. It's a rare event though.

I'd be surprised if it happens more than a couple of times between now and the end of the season. Which won't be enough to get him a drive in anything half decent, I suspect.

You mean "Oops , did I say that out loud ?" ?

I don't think so .
His Brazilian fans wanted to hear it , but now he is joking with spitting Luca about it .

How is that going to go down in Brazil ?
Who's side is he on ?

Will he still be the favourite driver in Brazilian stock cars ?

Which Ferrari lapdog do you prefer??

[Tazio]

I think Massa is probably talking to himself anyway.

He wasn't Alonso's lap-dog earlier in the season, but failed to push himself in front in the pecking order.

He wasn't Alonso's Number 2 early in 2012, but was miles away in performance terms.

He wasn't Alonso's Number 2 at any point in 2011, as the championship was well beyond reach for Maranello, yet again he was nowhere near.

Yes, occassionally Massa is on a level with Alonso. It's a rare event though.

I'd be surprised if it happens more than a couple of times between now and the end of the season. Which won't be enough to get him a drive in anything half decent, I suspect.

You mean "Oops , did I say that out loud ?" ?

I don't think so .
His Brazilian fans wanted to hear it , but now he is joking with spitting Luca about it .

How is that going to go down in Brazil ?
Who's side is he on ?

Will he still be the favourite driver in Brazilian stock cars ?

Which Ferrari lapdog do you prefer??
If I had to choose for myself I would prefer to be the one that actually gets paid! :D


Andrew Benson ? @andrewbensonf1

Raikkonen straight to the point on Lotus: "The reasons why I left are purely on the money side & I haven’t got my salary. It’s unfortunate"
3:14 AM - 19 Sep 2013

News flash from Singapore:
Rogro in a role reversal now getting upgrades ahead of Kimi :angel:

[Mia 01]

The matter with Massa is quit interesting, could it be that he all these years has hold back a bit, just to make Alonso look good? Perhaps he will give us the answer now.

[Tazio]

The matter with Massa is quit interesting, could it be that he all these years has hold back a bit, just to make Alonso look good? Perhaps he will give us the answer now.
It helps to use an emoticon when you are joking :angel:

[Parabolica]

The matter with Massa is quit interesting, could it be that he all these years has hold back a bit, just to make Alonso look good? Perhaps he will give us the answer now.

You are TJ13 and I claim my Star Prize.

[donKey jote]

classic Mia :up: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Koz]

Which Ferrari lapdog do you prefer??
If I had to choose for myself I would prefer to be the one that actually gets paid! :D


Andrew Benson ? @andrewbensonf1

Raikkonen straight to the point on Lotus: "The reasons why I left are purely on the money side & I haven’t got my salary. It’s unfortunate"
3:14 AM - 19 Sep 2013

News flash from Singapore:
Rogro in a role reversal now getting upgrades ahead of Kimi :angel:

Does that mean "Kimi, Romain is fatster than you!" ?

It is a shame. I really liked Lotus, but it appears the butt fucked bunny was Kimi. :(

[Mia 01]

The money problem in Lotus is really sad. No salaray or bonus to Kimi for the whole year if the rumours are true. Poor Hulkenberg and Grosjean, the latter have a little family now.
2009 Ferrari paid Kimi 20 million not to race, four years later Kimi races for free at Lotus. Time changes.

And yes, Massa has hold back a Little. He will show us his true pace this wekeend.

[Parabolica]

https://twitter.com/cirebox/status/3807 ... 21/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/cirebox/status/380749963187077121/photo/1)

[A FONDO]

https://twitter.com/cirebox/status/380749963187077121/photo/1
:laugh:

[Koz]

Now apparently Alonso may be moving to McLare... This might be getting just a tad too silly...

[Bagwan]

Now apparently Alonso may be moving to McLare... This might be getting just a tad too silly...

Yeah , now , Jettison is getting into it , saying having Fred as a team-mate would be interesting .

Can't see it .

[AndyL]

Now apparently Alonso may be moving to McLare... This might be getting just a tad too silly...

Probably just Martin Whitmarsh taking a leaf out of Christian Horner's book... or rather, a spoon from Christian Horner's pot.

[truefan72]

Now apparently Alonso may be moving to McLaren... This might be getting just a tad too silly...

I'm not sure what the heck is going on at Mclaren. neither button nor Perez signed yet for 2014
first they mention that their reserves should be in F1 seats now they are hinting at welcoming Alonso back to the team.

If this is Ron Dennis/Whitemarsh negotiating tactics, its is about to blow up in their face. Button may leave and go Lotus.
Perez might go back to Sauber

That leaves Hulkenberg as their only option to join the team, and perhaps be accompanied by a less than stellar Massa.
In 2013 both drivers (and button for once) have outdriven the machinery provided to them. So IMO the drivers are the least of their concerns. Build a proper car worthy of the mclaren name and perhaps these 2 will be winning races.

It looks to me like Ron dennis is going down the Marko/Tost route with blaming the drivers for the results when clearly the car is inferior
SMH

[dj_bytedisaster]

According to German magazin Der Spiegel, Button has already extended the contract, so if anything a move from Alonso would cost Perez his seat. I still can't imagine that happening. After his shameful conduct at McLaren 2007, the team would have to suffer from amnesia to sign Alonso again. Especially as he would come without Santander money to sweeten the deal. Santander already have stated that they'll stay with Ferrari - with or without Alonso.

[Tazio]

And yes, Massa has hold back a Little. He will show us his true pace this wekeend.

.....which is going to be the same old same old!

http://i.imgur.com/uetpDkc.jpg

Hope Kimi doesn't get lost in Singapore :angel: ;)

[Parabolica]

There are rumours, albeit ones with no attributable sources, that Lotus are seriously in danger of going pop.

You've therefore got to think that maybe Hulkenberg is better off staying at Sauber for another year?

[Mia 01]

Could be that Alonso seeking shelter in the Maclaren team next year. The Swedish pundits say that negotiations is going on.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Why would they want to sign a certified prick that blackmailed the team before. They'd be clinically insane to to that.

[easy rider]

Mclaren looks as if they are willing to forget about Fernando's actions in 2007, and feel that there is some weakness in their current driver lineup. If Alonso, which is highly unlkely, was to sign on with Mclaren and be teamed with Button, could open the door for Hulkenberg to be Raikkonen's teammate at Ferrari.

[Koz]

Mclaren looks as if they are willing to forget about Fernando's actions in 2007, and feel that there is some weakness in their current driver lineup.

Yep, it's oh so easy to forgive someone who cost you a hundred million dollars...

[Parabolica]

The man who cost McLaren wasn't called Fernando Alonso.

That McLaren are interested in signing the Spaniard is evidence that they know that.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Mclaren looks as if they are willing to forget about Fernando's actions in 2007, and feel that there is some weakness in their current driver lineup.

Yep, it's oh so easy to forgive someone who cost you a hundred million dollars...

You're mixing up two incidents. The 100 Million fine was applied for spygate, which IIRC mainly happened between Nigel Stepney (Ferrari) and Mike Coughlan (McLaren). Alonso however was involved in it as he exchanged Emails with then McLaren test driver Pedro de la Rosa about the exchanged data, which contradicted Ron Dennis's claim that McLaren had not been aware of the existence of the 780 page dossier. After the Alonso/Hamilton incidendent in the 2007 Hungary qualifying, Alonso threatened Dennis to leak the Emails, if he wasn't given #1 status over Hamilton.
His actions did not incur the fine, he was merely a minor figure in that scandal.

[Koz]

The man who cost McLaren wasn't called Fernando Alonso.

Ok, then please do enlighten me as to who leaked the emails to the Bernie following a certain incident in Hungary and the failed blackmailing attempt...

[Koz]

[quote="easy rider":2ngcljk8]Mclaren looks as if they are willing to forget about Fernando's actions in 2007, and feel that there is some weakness in their current driver lineup.

Yep, it's oh so easy to forgive someone who cost you a hundred million dollars...

You're mixing up two incidents. The 100 Million fine was applied for spygate, which IIRC mainly happened between Nigel Stepney (Ferrari) and Mike Coughlan (McLaren). Alonso however was involved in it as he exchanged Emails with then McLaren test driver Pedro de la Rosa about the exchanged data, which contradicted Ron Dennis's claim that McLaren had not been aware of the existence of the 780 page dossier. After the Alonso/Hamilton incidendent in the 2007 Hungary qualifying, Alonso threatened Dennis to leak the Emails, if he wasn't given #1 status over Hamilton.
His actions did not incur the fine, he was merely a minor figure in that scandal.[/quote:2ngcljk8]

Before he leaked the emails, nothing was really happening. Investigation was re-opened due to new evidence provided by Alonso to Bernie.
That is what finally sealed the deal.


Here's a link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsp ... 992011.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6992011.stm)

[dj_bytedisaster]

Before he leaked the emails, nothing was really happening. Investigation was re-opened due to new evidence provided by Alonso to Bernie.
That is what finally sealed the deal.


Here's a link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsp ... 992011.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6992011.stm)

Still, it was McLaren's actions that cost them the fine, not Alonso's providing evidence. It would have come out one way or the other. His leaking the Emails merely sped up the process. It does show however that, unless the teams are all suffering from selective amnesia, he's not exactly the most employable driver out there and might have no other chance than staying at Ferrari. Being implicated in spygate and crashgate, he appears to be a worthy successor to Schumacher - just a few titles lacking :disturb: And people were making a fuss over Vettel ignoring a team order :laugh:

[Koz]

Still, it was McLaren's actions that cost them the fine, not Alonso's providing evidence. [b]It would have come out one way or the other. His leaking the Emails merely sped up the process. It does show however that, unless the teams are all suffering from selective amnesia, he's not exactly the most employable driver out there and might have no other chance than staying at Ferrari. Being implicated in spygate and crashgate, he appears to be a worthy successor to Schumacher - just a few titles lacking :disturb: And people were making a fuss over Vettel ignoring a team order :laugh:

It is a matter of semantics really; he no problems participating in it and the first moment things didn't go his way he resorted to blackmail, and then providing evidence against the team that was cleared by the FIA.
IMO, the fine is Alonso's fault, at least it should be from McLaren's perspective.

He really is a despicable guy, but he just happens to be the greatest driver of this generation so we shall love him for that.
Vettel, he has Jesus... err Newey on his side...

[Parabolica]

The man who cost McLaren wasn't called Fernando Alonso.

Ok, then please do enlighten me as to who leaked the emails to the Bernie following a certain incident in Hungary and the failed blackmailing attempt...

This isn't really the thread for it.

But, suffice to say that Alonso did not leak the emails. If the facts are what was reported, then he told Dennis that he would inform the FIA if Dennis did not provide him with the status he had been promised.

Dennis, realising that Alonso wasn't just playing games and, I sense, suspecting that there was more to Spygate than his initial investigation had uncovered (or not looked for, if one is to be critical and cynical), promptly realised that it would be better if he approached the FIA with the information. A case of trying to show that he was not trying to hoodwink the FIA (maybe he had, maybe he hadn't, either way it was better in terms of final judgement that he contacted the FIA).

Now, there is an argument to be had that Dennis himself had been happy to break certain agreements he had made with Alonso, which are equal to the "crime" of blackmail which is often pinned on the Spaniard.

But, as I said, that is for another thread, most probably in the History section.

One thing for sure is that whatever Alonso and De La Rosa did, it did not stop them from being highly employable.

Fernando, since 2007, has had contract offers from Renault and Ferrari which were signed, and was at some stage after Spygate, in 2007 and 2008 also wanted by both Honda and Red Bull.

Now, with Mclaren publicly declaring an interest, it would appear that every team in the top half of the field has judged that Alonso is not despicable.

Just for the record, the Honda and Red Bull interest was reported at the time -

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69683

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2007/n ... orts.sport (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2007/nov/03/motorsports.sport)

[dj_bytedisaster]

Dennis, realising that Alonso wasn't just playing games and, I sense, suspecting that there was more to Spygate than his initial investigation had uncovered (or not looked for, if one is to be critical and cynical), promptly realised that it would be better if he approached the FIA with the information. A case of trying to show that he was not trying to hoodwink the FIA (maybe he had, maybe he hadn't, either way it was better in terms of final judgement that he contacted the FIA).


That's not quite true. Dennis approached Max Mosley and informed him that Alonso would send Bernie the Emails, but assured him that they didn't contain any evidence, which was subsequently exposed as a lie ;)

[Koz]

DJ, beat me to it.

Wrong.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2007/s ... rts.sport1 (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2007/sep/20/motorsports.sport1)

Ron, after the blackmail attempt told Uncle Max there was nothing to worry about.

Alonso leaked the emails.

[Parabolica]

DJ, beat me to it.

Wrong.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2007/s ... rts.sport1 (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2007/sep/20/motorsports.sport1)

Ron, after the blackmail attempt told Uncle Max there was nothing to worry about.

Alonso leaked the emails.

The report has the word "apparently" in the opening paragraph.

Something which apparently happened isn't something which is confirmed.

That report only states that Ferrari's lawyer claims that it was not Dennis, he does not name anybody.

The claim in the Guardian report that Dennis makes about Bernie being aware of something in Spanish is just hearsay, with no evidence to support it.

But, as stated, this is best moved to the History section.

[Mia 01]

alonso is a skilled politican, is he as skilled on track, we will see next year. Or not as it could be Maclaren as a shelter.

[Parabolica]

Is he skilled on track?

No, every single win has been gained purely by his political prowess.

Because of this, Ferrari only want to replace him with somebody as politically gifted.

Tony Blair is having a seat fitting next week.

[steveaki13]

Oh Felipe. He's standing up for himself, but all to late.

[Tazio]

He's going to prove that that doesn't apply to him, Felipe is very fast, tfhat is the second most important reason Ferrari signed him. We're gonna' be fast, and more planted in race trim in Singapore :wave:

[donKey jote]

Oh Felipe. He's standing up for himself, but all to late.

which raises the question, as malbec pointed out, WHERE THE FOKK HAS HE BEEN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS THEN ? :sailor:

Still, under a tenth is hardly a thrashing, although maybe Alonso is so scared of kimi he can't drive straight anymore eh, mia ? :laugh:

[Tazio]

:sailor: a thrashing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU8gvF6WCIk
Best wishes,
http://www.aperfectworld.org/cartoons/2 ... chslap.gif (http://www.aperfectworld.org/cartoons/2002/bitchslap.gif)

[RS]

This is all getting rather confusing.

Massa to Ferrari in preference to Hulkenburg? Weird.

They suggested on Sky today it could be Massa & Hulkenburg and Grosjean out of Lotus, but surely they need some money coming in?

I thought McLaren were linked to Telmex sponsorship next year to replace Vodafone, thus securing Perez' seat, but with various rumours suggesting Perez might not stay maybe that's not accurate.

How about:

Lotus: Perez/Massa
McLaren: Button/Hulkenburg

It would be a travesty if Lotus took Massa and Hulkenburg ended up without a decent drive again.

[Tazio]

That would be cool :cool:

[steveaki13]

Way cool man. #like

[steveaki13]

To be honest Hulkenberg needs a top drive now. He is ready and there are drivers (massa and Perez or Button) who could easily be replaced by their teams, so it needs to be now.

Red Bull: Vettel & Ricciardo
Mercedes: Rosberg & Hamilton
Ferrari: Alonso & Kimi
McLaren: Button & Hulk
Lotus: Perez & Grosjean

As the top teams would be quite exciting.

[kfzmeister]

Looks like the exit door might be shown to Massa........
http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/stor ... MP=OTC-RSS (http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/126861.html?CMP=OTC-RSS)

[jens]

Looking at the drivers available, I am sure Hülkenberg is the kind of driver you would like to take gamble on if you actually had finances. Massa and Grosjean have both been left far behind their team-mates overall this year, so that if I was in Lotus' shoes and approached the 2014 season with such line-up, I wouldn't have confidence I would be getting satisfactory results. Sounds even less convincing than when before 2013 it was said Button-Pérez seemed a bit weak!

Hülkenberg is not proven yet, but there is a chance he could be pretty good. It has to be said Grosjean has seemed adequately fast from German Grand Prix onwards too, but as with many drivers, it is very much unclear if he can keep performing consistently like that over a full season. Alas I have lost faith in Massa with the exception of qualifying well on occasion.

[longisland]

Here's my dream driver line-up

1) Ferrari: Kimi/Fernando
Both drivers are evenly matched & considered as the best drivers & are at their prime in terms of skill albeit a fraction of a second off.
It was considered outrageous by most people until Ferrari actually signed Kimi.

2) Red Bull: Hulkenberg/Rosberg
Hulk was touted as the next big thing in F1, while Rosberg is perennially under rated even though he has comprehensively out performed the most successful driver statistically for 2 seasons and going toe to toe with the best thing ever happened to British Racing since Jim Clark.
If Red Bull remains dominant then we know by now this is a team sport & the driver is overrated.

3) Mercedes: Hamilton/Vettel
This is arguably the quickest pair of driver on the grid. This pairing gives the Vettel detractors to see his butt kicked. However, if Seb is able to win a WDC then this will disappoint most people he is the best there is.
Mercedes will be the best team to give both drivers the opportunity to settle the score. Lewis has a year head start but Seb is a German going to a German team. The car is the quickest in 1 lap so will be exciting to see who's on top Saturday.

4) Lotus: Button/Kubica
The Lotus is always gentle on the tires & this suits Button's smooth driving style. Button is untouchable when the car is on song . Every fan wants Robert to return to F1; just like Kimi, he has unfinished business in F1. Just like Kimi, he did his talking on the track & is an out & out racer.

5) Mclaren: Kevin Magnussen/Gary Paffet
Magnussen has a stand-out performance in Renault 3.5 series, IMHO, is the best feeder series to F1. Gary, just like Di Resta, is an accomplished DTM champion; he will be up to speed in F1 & may surprise a few.

6) Force India: Kobayashi/Bottas
I have a soft spot for Koba; he's not rated as a top line driver but he sure knows how to pass & brings excitement to the sport. Ban DRS & KERS & you will know what I mean.
Bottas shows glimpse of brilliance in Canada; he was pretty evenly matched with his more experience team mate but both failed to drive beyond the car's limit. The jury is still out on him & I'd like to see him in a more competitive machine.

7) Toro Rosso: Robin Frijns/Stoffel Vandoorne
Toro Rosso is essentially a junior team to RBR; the team's goal is to scout the future drivers for RBR. Therefore, it's important they do not limit their selection only to their junior program.
Robin Frijns is a classical case of a talent deprived of his opportunity due to lack of funding. Stoffel Vandoorne is equally impressive in his rookie season in Renault 3.5. Both drivers performed better than the RBR junior program driver of the likes of Antonio Felix De Costa & Carlos Sainz Jr.

8) Sauber: Bianchi/Pic
Bianchi has proven himself he deserves a more competitive car to showcase his talent. Pic, IMHO, is the best driver with sponsorship this season. He lacks the stand-out performance of Bianchi, Bottas & even Van De Garde. He does provide solid performance despite of the car's limitation. In any case, this duo is stronger than Gutierez/Sirotkin pairing in any given weekend.

9) Caterham: Rob Huff/Tom Chilton
Caterham has been over hyped & under achieved since it's incarnation. It's equally disappointing & painful to watch them slipped to the bottom of the pecking order & beaten by a 2-year old Marussia. For sure, they need money but more importantly, respectability for fans to take them seriously.
In my book, Tom is the more talented Chilton; both shares the equal love & financial support form the family so it's a no brainer. As for Rob, if you have to drive a crappy car scraping of positions in the middle of the pack, might as well do it in F1. F1 needs some real wheel to wheel racers & WTCC is the most competitive wheel to wheel series other than BTCC.

10) Marussia: Petrov/Sirotkin
It's a Russian team, there's a Russian GP next season & the team need Russian Rubles. A pair of Russian drivers will fit the bill & there's no two ways about it.

There you have it. My dream list for 2014. :lips:

[webberf1]

longisland, I'm assuming the Williams team simply disappeared up Maldonado's butthole?

[longisland]

oops!

Yes. How can I forget Williams, the very team that brought the biggest anti-climax when Mansell's tire exploded in the final lap. It was like Massa crowned WDC for 15 seconds in 2007.

11) Williams: James Hinchcliff/Danica Patrick

Danica will be Bernie's wet dream & Hinch is currently the hottest Indy talent. Both drivers will attract great interest of the racing fans over the state side not to mention sponsors. They will definitely help to secure the Jersey GP & Danica might do a F1 version of Jersey shore.
A Go-Daddy Williams FW-36, sounds like a classic in making.

[dj_bytedisaster]

longisland,

Danica aint gonna happen. She's already ruled out F1. She's also getting a bit old for a debutant, even though women don't decline as fast as men.

Here's my dream grid:

Red Bull: Vettel/Hulk
That's not going to happen of course, but it would be good for Hulk. The problem is, that like Mark, he is considerably heavier and taller than Vettel, so he would suffer the same inherent disadvantage in car setup due to the lower amount of distributable ballast weight.

Merc: Hamilton/Rosberg
I think this combo should be kept. Both are very quick and we didn't have the sort of mud-slinging we saw with VET/WEB or ALO/HAM in 2007.

Ferrari: Alonso/Räikkönen
That one actually does happen, although I think Ferrari are window licking mad. They obviously lerned nothing from the Villeneuve/Pironi or the Mansell/Prost pairings. Two alpha dogs in the team has almost never worked since the 70s.

Lotus: Massa/Valsecchi
I'd really like to see Massa being given a late chance as the team leader. Also his experience would help the inexperienced Valsecchi. RoGro is out. He's done some decent races this year, but considering his obvious talent, I think it is a little to few and too late.

McLaren: Button/Vandoorne
Same combination as with Lotus. An experienced winner paired with a promising, but inexperienced upstart. For Perez it's the door. May it not hit him in the arse on the way out.

Force India: Sutil/Sam Byrd
I think, except for his brilliant drive in Canada, di Resta hasn't done much to set the world ablaze, so Merc could park their test driver in a Force India. Sutil has been with the team since they were still called Spyker. He deserves some loyalty and he usually puts in strong drives if the car isn't falling apart at the seams.

Sauber: Rubens Barrichello/Cyndie Allemann
Seeing Rubinho back on the grid would be great. Somehow it felt weird when Schumacher left and there was nobody left, who had actually driven in the same race with Senna. This could bring the warm fuzzies back for a year or two. I'm weird, I know ;)
As for Cyndie. Well, I think she's one of the women, who could have made it in openwheelers, if ever given top material. She used to beat the crap out of Buemi in their karting days. Everyone, who can drive an Indycar for a second-tier team to 4th in torrential rain is F1 material in my book. On top of that she's cute and her thick french accent is hillarious. (I'm shallow, sue me)

Williams: Glock/Wolff
With their recent string of crap seasons, Williams need a driver who has experience with wonky cars, not someone who perpetually wrecks them. That means - exit stage right: Pastor Maldonado. Except for the 3rd place at Canada qualifying, Bottas hasn't done much, so I think he should be Caterham-bound. Suzie has shown in the young drivers test that she isn't as slow as people think, so she should get a chance and the PR could create more funds.

Toro Rosso: Vergne/Sainz jr.
Nothing much to say. Just sounds right.

Caterham: Kovalainen/Bottas
An all finish lineup could help attracting funds from Finnland and both deserve to be in F1.

Marussia: Petrov/Sirotkin
I'm with longisland on this one. Russian team, Russian drivers, Russian coins.

[jens]

Fantasy aside, one of the more interesting places in the silly season market could be the Force India team.

I am becoming increasingly disappointed in Paul di Resta. He left the low of the late 2012 behind him early this year and performed strongly, but looks like he has started to struggle once again and his long-term future in F1 may become questionable. Sutil, as solid as he is, always seems like a temporary solution.

Magnussen may be in the running for the seat, maybe Bianchi too. And maybe Hülkenberg if there is no opening in Lotus/McLaren for him.

[jens]

To be honest Hulkenberg needs a top drive now. He is ready and there are drivers (massa and Perez or Button) who could easily be replaced by their teams, so it needs to be now.


Hülkenberg reminds me a lot of Kubica's heroics in the 2010 Renault. Punching above his weight in the upper midfield. The car is not bad (any more), but obviously not a top car either, yet he keeps getting consistently good results in it. Just like in Force India in the second half of last year.

[zako85]

I saw several news reports that Maldonado now fed up with the Williams car and wants to move up. There may be some discussion going with Lotus. However, Williams may disagree because his and PDVSA contract runs until 2015. Lotus would certainly like to have a pay driver. The Lotus team is for sale for 90million. But whoever buys it, will also be liable for the Lotus debt of 120million.


http://www.givemesport.com/389254-maldo ... s-deadline (http://www.givemesport.com/389254-maldonado-approaches-lotus-as-hulkenberg-gives-deadline)

[N. Jones]

With new politicians in Venezuela I think the PDVSA deal is going to end, leaving Maldonado without a drive. I wonder if Massa can get Brazilian oil giant Petrobras to sponsor him that maybe he signs with Williams? I was also thinking that maybe Peter Sauber still has a fondness for Massa and would want to sign him, if he can?

ANy word on who will replace Ricciardo at STR?

[zako85]

11) Williams: James Hinchcliff/Danica Patrick

Danica will be Bernie's wet dream & Hinch is currently the hottest Indy talent. Both drivers will attract great interest of the racing fans over the state side not to mention sponsors. They will definitely help to secure the Jersey GP & Danica might do a F1 version of Jersey shore.
A Go-Daddy Williams FW-36, sounds like a classic in making.

No. Danica should get a seat at RedBull to test the theory that anyone can win in Newey's cars.

[zako85]

With new politicians in Venezuela I think the PDVSA deal is going to end, leaving Maldonado without a drive. I wonder if Massa can get Brazilian oil giant Petrobras to sponsor him that maybe he signs with Williams? I was also thinking that maybe Peter Sauber still has a fondness for Massa and would want to sign him, if he can?

ANy word on who will replace Ricciardo at STR?


Probably one of Red Bull junior drivers from World Series Renault Formulas. I kind of don't care since I have no idea who they are.

[Rollo]

Here's my dream driver line-up

You forgot Banana:

12) Banana Kia: Rollo / Sam Tordoff

http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad297/rollo75/f1banana.jpg

The problem is that Banana ran out of funding to use the wind tunnel... and Kia won't supply the engines... and we can't raise the $48m that Bernie requires... BUT you did say "dream driver line-up".

[Ranger]

With new politicians in Venezuela I think the PDVSA deal is going to end, leaving Maldonado without a drive. I wonder if Massa can get Brazilian oil giant Petrobras to sponsor him that maybe he signs with Williams? I was also thinking that maybe Peter Sauber still has a fondness for Massa and would want to sign him, if he can?

ANy word on who will replace Ricciardo at STR?

I would have thought Antonio Felix da Costa would be a firm candidate.

[N. Jones]

Is he a Red Bull prospect?

Is there any talk about Adrian Sutil? He is a candidate to be axed?

[Storm]

A dream grid would be Vettel and only his RB car off the grid on a sabbatical.

I am hoping against hope that the 2014 new engine regs mean a different look to the grid next year.
Not gonna happen though, because that's how life works.

[zako85]

The 2004 silly season might be pretty disruptive if you trust the rumors floating around the web:

1. Alonso may leave Ferrari after this or next year. He may be in talks with McLaren.
2. McLaren may have obtained the sponsors' permission to lay off Perez. One "insider" says Perez doesn't work well with the rest of the team, although an outsider may also call it throwing Perez under the bus for team's sins.
3. Maldonado and PDVSA may leave Williams after this season. Depending on their financial situation, even Lotus may be interested in hiring Maldonado.
4. Lotus, Force India, McLaren, and Williams may be interested in the services of Hulkenberg
5. McLaren wants Magnussen to be in F1 next year, possibly in Marussia or Force India.

[henners88]

The 2004 silly season might be pretty disruptive if you trust the rumors floating around the web:

1. Alonso may leave Ferrari after this or next year. He may be in talks with McLaren.
2. McLaren may have obtained the sponsors' permission to lay off Perez. One "insider" says Perez doesn't work well with the rest of the team, although an outsider may also call it throwing Perez under the bus for team's sins.
3. Maldonado and PDVSA may leave Williams after this season. Depending on their financial situation, even Lotus may be interested in hiring Maldonado.
4. Lotus, Force India, McLaren, and Williams may be interested in the services of Hulkenberg
5. McLaren wants Magnussen to be in F1 next year, possibly in Marussia or Force India.
Out of all the rumours I have seen I think Alonso going back to McLaren is the most far fetched at this point. Unless he has made peace with Ron Dennis I can't see this becoming a reality. Personally if I was McLaren, the opportunity to employ someone of Alonso's talent would be hard to pass, but then again his behaviour the first time around is practically unforgivable IMO. I think if he has trouble sharing wins with Kimi next season, then retirement would have to be a serious consideration. Alonso has made regular references to his differences with the McLaren management in recent years and it's not the best course of action for someone looking to maybe return at some point in his career. If it happens, the best of luck to him, but I would be extremely surprised.

I can see McLaren ditching Perez. He's shown to be a feisty driver and at times a good overtaker, but not the quick learning, consistent driver they need during this difficult time.

[steveaki13]

I think McLaren would jump at the chance and maybe even shift their "letting the drivers race" policy.

From Mclarens point of view

Seb is signed for Red Bull, Kimi is going to Ferrari and Lewis is at Mercedes. These are 3 of the top drivers. If McLaren let Alonso stay at Ferrari or even go else where when they have a chance to sign him, they would kick themselves.

I mean there are 4 real top level champions in F1 at the moment and McLaren could have none of them and all there rivals would be in great shape. Meaning a possible return to the mid 90s kind of situation with no star driver and no decent car.

[henners88]

I think McLaren would jump at the chance and maybe even shift their "letting the drivers race" policy.

From Mclarens point of view

Seb is signed for Red Bull, Kimi is going to Ferrari and Lewis is at Mercedes. These are 3 of the top drivers. If McLaren let Alonso stay at Ferrari or even go else where when they have a chance to sign him, they would kick themselves.

I mean there are 4 real top level champions in F1 at the moment and McLaren could have none of them and all there rivals would be in great shape. Meaning a possible return to the mid 90s kind of situation with no star driver and no decent car.
I agree on paper Alonso is perfect for McLaren as I already said. It's just a strange relationship full of negative history before it's even begun. McLaren either let Alonso come back and they bury the hatchet, or they invest in the next generation and look for the next Lewis Hamilton or Sebastian Vettel.

[A FONDO]

The 2004 silly season might be pretty disruptive if you trust the rumors floating around the web:

1. Alonso may leave Ferrari after this or next year. He may be in talks with McLaren.
2. McLaren may have obtained the sponsors' permission to lay off Perez. One "insider" says Perez doesn't work well with the rest of the team, although an outsider may also call it throwing Perez under the bus for team's sins.
3. Maldonado and PDVSA may leave Williams after this season. Depending on their financial situation, even Lotus may be interested in hiring Maldonado.
4. Lotus, Force India, McLaren, and Williams may be interested in the services of Hulkenberg
5. McLaren wants Magnussen to be in F1 next year, possibly in Marussia or Force India.
3,5 Massa bringing big brazilian money in Williams

[steveaki13]

I think McLaren would jump at the chance and maybe even shift their "letting the drivers race" policy.

From Mclarens point of view

Seb is signed for Red Bull, Kimi is going to Ferrari and Lewis is at Mercedes. These are 3 of the top drivers. If McLaren let Alonso stay at Ferrari or even go else where when they have a chance to sign him, they would kick themselves.

I mean there are 4 real top level champions in F1 at the moment and McLaren could have none of them and all there rivals would be in great shape. Meaning a possible return to the mid 90s kind of situation with no star driver and no decent car.
I agree on paper Alonso is perfect for McLaren as I already said. It's just a strange relationship full of negative history before it's even begun. McLaren either let Alonso come back and they bury the hatchet, or they invest in the next generation and look for the next Lewis Hamilton or Sebastian Vettel.

True, I was just thinking McLaren might be panicking about the state of their line up (Perez never going to be the best and Button past his best and never out and out fast) and despite the history they might be desperate for a top line driver and so take Alonso despite all that has gone before.

[Parabolica]

McLaren wanting Alonso just shows they were stupid to let him go first time.

How many titles have they lost since by not having a clear Number One?

It looks like Button is there until his pension is due, so that puts Perez at risk.

I always felt that, whilst he had some very good races in 2012, there must have been some reason why Ferrari declined his services, especially when they chose to keep Felipe-Baby.

I also think it was a knee-jerk reaction after Monza that year, knowing that Hamilton was going and desperate to try to show that McLaren were in control of the situation.

To be honest, I'm not sure McLaren have been in charge of a situation since the start of 2007.

[steveaki13]

too many and the worry for them is that they are falling away from actually being a title contender. So they need a big signing otherwise sponsor, money and the quality of their cars will suffer.

I am not including this season in that as it could be a one off dud. However it could also be the start of a downward spiral. Only time will tell.

[Parabolica]

Mclaren also have some history of employing the seemingly unemployable.

Mansell, who had been on the receiving end of a few Ron Dennis comments (and was once mocked as a Gorilla by the McLaren team), was employed at the behest of Marlboro.

Prost, despite infuriating Dennis at Monza 89, was practically begged to get in a McLaren in 94, going so far as testing for them.

Which goes to show that, just like any other team with sponsors to appease and major engi ne manufacturers to keep happy, will sign whoever they need to.

Alonso is just the next in a line.

[tfp]

Highlight of next year for me is the Ferrari line up. FINALLY, Alonso has some competition.

[henners88]

too many and the worry for them is that they are falling away from actually being a title contender. So they need a big signing otherwise sponsor, money and the quality of their cars will suffer.

I am not including this season in that as it could be a one off dud. However it could also be the start of a downward spiral. Only time will tell.
I hope it's a one off dud as it's sad to see them fall into another slump. For me growing up the essence of Formula 1 was captured by two teams. McLaren and Williams and I'd hate to see these two teams slip too far. Williams already far in decline but one hopes that break will come. McLaren have the advantage of larger funds but something very big is lacking. They've lost good technical personnel and one of the best drivers on the grid in the last 12 month, so there are problems on more than one front. Let's hope 2014 is kinder to the great team.

[airshifter]

The 2004 silly season might be pretty disruptive if you trust the rumors floating around the web:

1. Alonso may leave Ferrari after this or next year. He may be in talks with McLaren.
2. McLaren may have obtained the sponsors' permission to lay off Perez. One "insider" says Perez doesn't work well with the rest of the team, although an outsider may also call it throwing Perez under the bus for team's sins.
3. Maldonado and PDVSA may leave Williams after this season. Depending on their financial situation, even Lotus may be interested in hiring Maldonado.
4. Lotus, Force India, McLaren, and Williams may be interested in the services of Hulkenberg
5. McLaren wants Magnussen to be in F1 next year, possibly in Marussia or Force India.


1. I can't see it happening. At this point though Mclaren would like Alonso, he has said he will stay with Ferrari. I think they are smart enough to continue paying him to stay.

2. That could be interesting, though I think the car is lacking at this point. I don't know if they could get a driver at a reasonable price that is better than Perez, unless Hulkenberg would risk the move.

3. I think the only teams interested in Pastor would likely be cash strapped teams. People want their cars to finish races!

4. Any team with a brain should be at least interested in Hulkenberg IMO. In all fairness though the Sauber has done well mid to end of season, and people thought Perez was worth looking at when he was in the same car,

5. Haven't followed this at all.



With the new car and engine specs, I think we might see some strange changes in 2014 as far as how we rate drivers and teams. It is bound to shake things up some.

As for McLaren I think they need someone stronger than Jenson to lead the team. He is a solid driver but not known to get the best out of cars at times.

[zako85]

Just when the things couldn't weirder, there are reports that Petrov could oust Sirotkin at Sauber.

http://www.inautonews.com/kaltenborn-co ... ith-petrov (http://www.inautonews.com/kaltenborn-confirms-meeting-with-petrov)

[henners88]

Petrov has experience and brings lots of Russian money. Has Sauber not just received significant investment from a Russian company too?

[steveaki13]

I think that would actually be a decent signing for Sauber coupled with the Russian money.

[tjoepie]

Maldonado in talks with Lotus: it'd be great to have him in a top car!

[Ranger]

Maldonado in talks with Lotus: it'd be great to have him in a top car!

He was extremely erratic last time he had a half-decent car. I can't see why it would be different this time around.

[zako85]

Maldonado in talks with Lotus: it'd be great to have him in a top car!

He was extremely erratic last time he had a half-decent car. I can't see why it would be different this time around.


I think Maldonado and Grosjean pitted against each other in the same car could be a very good show. Hulkenberg and Grosjean would be even better. In the end, money will decide everything. If Lotus finds a good external source for money (investors, sponsors, etc), then Lotus can afford to sign up Hulkenberg and Grosjean. But if the team is broke, they may sign Maldonado, Massa, or someone else with good financial backing. I don't see a big problem with this. In the current economy, every team besides McLaren, Ferrari, and Mercedes is broke. Even Kimi said that the reason for moving to Ferrari was quite simple, Lotus did not have money to pay him. A sensible strategy for a team is to sign a decent driver with good sponsors, and use the money to subsidize the second seat. What I don't like is when the team sells its soul and gives both of its seats to pay drivers.

[henners88]

Hulkenberg denied the talks with McLaren when EJ just suggested it, but I would love to see Nico join the team. I think its strange how he has missed out on a couple of previously available top drives considering his performances this and last season. He has an impressive CV pre-F1 and comes across as a very driven chap indeed. Its a shame he missed out on the Ferrari seat, but Kimi will no doubt provide us with the excitement we expect. If I was McLaren though, I would seriously be considering signing the Hulk if there is any hole on Sergio's contract.

[tjoepie]

He was extremely erratic last time he had a half-decent car. I can't see why it would be different this time around.

Grosjean started out extremely quick, but extremely erratic too. He seems to have improved his game in the intervening time period...

[rjbetty]

Shall we have a quick recap of how things stand so far for 2014 (Oct 28th 2013)?

Bold = Confirmed (as far as I know)

RED BULL RACING - RENAULT
1.Sebastian Vettel
2.Daniel Ricciardo

FERRARI
3.Fernando Alonso
4.Kimi Raikkonen

MERCEDES
5.Lewis Hamilton
6.Nico Rosberg

LOTUS - RENAULT
7.Romain Grosjean
8.Nico Hulkenberg or Pastor Maldonado

MCLAREN - MERCEDES
9.Jenson Button
10.Sergio Perez (realistically I can't see Perez being ousted unless it's for Alonso only)

FORCE INDIA - MERCEDES
Paul di Resta, Adrian Sutil, Pastor Maldonado, Felipe Massa or Nico Hulkenberg

SAUBER - FERRARI
Sergey Sirotkin or Vitaly Petrov, Esteban Gutierrez, Felipe Massa, Nico Hulkenberg or Pastor Maldonado (not sure if any drivers other than those will get in really)

TORO ROSSO - RENAULT
16.Jean-Eric Vergne
17.Daniil Kvyat

WILLIAMS - MERCEDES
Valtteri Bottas, Pastor Maldonado or Felipe Massa (don't know who else has a serious chance)

MARUSSIA - FERRARI
20.Jules Bianchi
21.Max Chilton, Kevin Magnussen or someone else with cash going spare

CATERHAM
22.Heikki Kovalainen hopefully, or Charles Pic or Giedo van der Garde. Could be anyone really.

[jarrambide]

I would love to see Hulkenberg at Lotus. I like how Grosjean drives, he actually tries to pass (unlike many "top" drivers) other drivers, and since he stopped crashing cars every other rolling start, he has some great finishes. Hulkenberg would bring the same kind of vibe to Lotus.

I can't see Gutierrez staying on F1, unless:
*Sauber loses Hulkenberg to Lotus or any other team.
*Sauber has to hire Sirotkin to please their new backer.
*Sauber decides that they don't want 2 new F1 drivers in 2014, and they might as well retain someone who knows the team and has ties with a Mexican backer.

With all the troubles Venezuela is having right now, will Maldonado have a backer for 2014?

[RS]

The Sauber is looking like a decent car now. If they can maintain that form into 2014 I hope they have a driver worthy of it. If they lose Hulkenburg maybe they could get someone like Sutil (fast but with some money too)

[keysersoze]

It looks like Ferrari took the right driver, since Kimi is now being asked to move over. :D

[Mia 01]

It looks like Ferrari took the right driver, since Kimi is now being asked to move over. :D


It´s OK as long as no moron shout F...... idiot move out of the way!

[anfield5]

Looking through the confirmed and likely seats for next year I really fear for the future of Paul diResta. Rumours suggest that Hulk is going back to Force India and they will keep Sutil, leaving diResta without a drive. There is one seat at the black team available alongside Grosjean but it looks possible that either Massa or Maldonado will go there, that leaves Sauber or Williams. Sauber look almost certain to sign Sirotkin in place of Hulk, so if they keep Guiterez (sp sorry) then that leaves Williams. Bottas will almost certainly stay and the rumour mill suggests Massa in the other car.

[Mia 01]

You have to deserv or buy a seat in F1.

[zako85]

Looking through the confirmed and likely seats for next year I really fear for the future of Paul diResta. Rumours suggest that Hulk is going back to Force India and they will keep Sutil, leaving diResta without a drive. There is one seat at the black team available alongside Grosjean but it looks possible that either Massa or Maldonado will go there, that leaves Sauber or Williams. Sauber look almost certain to sign Sirotkin in place of Hulk, so if they keep Guiterez (sp sorry) then that leaves Williams. Bottas will almost certainly stay and the rumour mill suggests Massa in the other car.


Paul di Resta may have earned a great reputation from his DTM career, but hasn't accomplished anything in F1 to make us miss him. He is a talented driver who can probably succeed in top level motorsports competitions. It looks like he could be joining a long list of "good but not great" drivers who were retired from F1 after 2-3 years (Kobayashi, Kovalainen, Petrov, Glock, etc)

Curiously, if Hulkenberg and Sutil are signed at FI, then the Indian team will have an all-German driver line up ;p

[rjbetty]

If Hulkenberg misses out on the Lotus drive, I hope he stays at Sauber. It would be a waste to go back to Force India and Sauber seem to be better after a bad start this year.