Who will provider tyres in 2014?

[Koz]

After today, and all the other controversy we have had I can't see Pirelli continuing.

So who are realistic candidates to replace them?

[steveaki13]

I dont think Pirelli will be keen on continuing. But therefore will others want to come in, if F1 continues to demand "artificial sof tyres".

I cant see suppliers wanting to have their reputation risked.

[AndyL]

I dont think Pirelli will be keen on continuing. But therefore will others want to come in, if F1 continues to demand "artificial sof tyres".

Especially without adequate testing to calibrate how soft they should make them.

[Koz]

I cant see suppliers wanting to have their reputation risked.

What about companies like MRF and Apollo?

It would be great exposure for them on the world stage.

[Daniel]

I dont think Pirelli will be keen on continuing. But therefore will others want to come in, if F1 continues to demand "artificial sof tyres".

I cant see suppliers wanting to have their reputation risked.

The difference is that Bridgestone and Michelin are competent companies with a history of designing great tyres for racing and in Michelin's case, Rallying also. Pirelli have almost always been average when it comes to their tyres in rallying and in some cases they've been nothing other than poor.

[AndyRAC]

Does it matter who provides the tyres, if the FiA/ Bernie 'instruct' how they want them, to spice up 'The Show'.

Just let us have an open tyre formula, as F1 should be; and with nothing to spice up 'The Show'.....

However, I agree with Daniel about Pirelli in the WRC, their tyres were rubbish; when they went up against Michelin, they were routed.

[Daniel]

Does it matter who provides the tyres, if the FiA/ Bernie 'instruct' how they want them, to spice up 'The Show'.

Just let us have an open tyre formula, as F1 should be; and with nothing to spice up 'The Show'.....

However, I agree with Daniel about Pirelli in the WRC, their tyres were rubbish; when they went up against Michelin, they were routed.

With Pirelli's track record in the WRC they were NEVER going to make outstanding tyres in F1.

I don't agree that this is the FIA's fault though, don't agree at all.

[DexDexter]

After today, and all the other controversy we have had I can't see Pirelli continuing.

So who are realistic candidates to replace them?

Pirelli will continue, read it here first :)

[RedBullian1]

I could see Bridgestone coming back next year. They had some great years in F1 and Bernie would love to have them back

[Daniel]

I could see Bridgestone coming back next year. They had some great years in F1 and Bernie would love to have them back

Bridgestone would be fine, Bridgestone and Michelin even better :)

[odykas]

Hankook :laugh:

[Daniel]

Hankook :laugh:

Anything would be better than Pirelli :)

[donKey jote]

Hankook :laugh:

don't laugh... they came close already

[Daniel]

don't laugh... they came close already

and Hankook aren't the joke they might once have been.

[N4D13]

I think it would make sense for Hankook to try and enter F1. They aren't as well-known as Bridgestone, Michelin and Pirelli, so they could definitely use a publicity boost. And with more testing for the next years, plus some changes that will surely be made by the FIA to improve safety -e.g., taking a closer look at kerbs-, they could pull off a decent tyre which doesn't have as many failures as today's Pirellis have. But I don't really see them entering F1 in 2014 - would they be able to develop an appropriate tyre for F1 standards in six months? My armchair engineering expertise indicates that it looks a bit far-fetched...

[donKey jote]

and Hankook aren't the joke they might once have been.

They set up an R&D center in Hannover, pretty much next door to ours ;) :dozey:

[RedBullian1]

Bridgestone would be fine, Bridgestone and Michelin even better :)

Tire competitions are fun to watch

[Daniel]

Tire competitions are fun to watch

No one watches the tyre competition. People get to see the best drivers in the best cars on the best tyres driving as fast as a car can go on the track, not drivers being limited by some **** rubber.

[SGWilko]

Especially without adequate testing to calibrate how soft they should make them.

And if the rules are changed to allow testing, then that gives Pirelli a cast iron guarantee of a win in any court case they wish to bring against the FIA.

[RedBullian1]

No one watches the tyre competition. People get to see the best drivers in the best cars on the best tyres driving as fast as a car can go on the track, not drivers being limited by some **** rubber.

Well lets say Red Bull takes Bridgestone and Ferrari takes Michelin and those tires could play the difference in wins, podiums, and points for constructors and driver's titles. Like how IndyCar went back to multiple engines, that made competition awesome to watch. I say it's fun to watch

[Daniel]

http://oi41.tinypic.com/23idwe8.jpg

[Daniel]

Well lets say Red Bull takes Bridgestone and Ferrari takes Michelin and those tires could play the difference in wins, podiums, and points for constructors and driver's titles. Like how IndyCar went back to multiple engines, that made competition awesome to watch. I say it's fun to watch

I wasn't saying it's not fun with multiple tyre companies, I was saying that no one actually watches the tyre battle as such.

[donKey jote]

I was saying that no one actually watches the tyre battle as such.

ahem ! :andrea: :p

[odykas]

I hope Pirelli gets the job so Daniel keeps on amusing us :devil:

[SGWilko]

http://oi41.tinypic.com/23idwe8.jpg

Chateau Neuf du Pape!, as they are all saying in the Michelin HQ.....

[Daniel]

I hope Pirelli gets the job so Daniel keeps on amusing us :devil:

Trololololololololo :p

[odykas]

Pirelli have already developed a solid new tyre to dispel criticism.

http://www.ibelieveinadv.com/commons/cake.jpg

[SGWilko]

Pirelli have already developed a solid new tyre to dispel criticism.

http://www.ibelieveinadv.com/commons/cake.jpg

The quick release studs are a nice touch......

[joeyz_f1]

Hopefully Pirelli. Unfortunately, they will probably be replaced by Bridgestone or Michelin. In the years they've been a part of F1, the "fans" have treated them like ****. They never had a fair chance.

[Daniel]

Hopefully Pirelli. Unfortunately, they will probably be replaced by Bridgestone or Michelin. In the years they've been a part of F1, the "fans" have treated them like ****. They never had a fair chance.

Joey, lets try a new concept, you clearly have opinions so you're halfway to understanding this forum business, now try justifying those opinions. Complete the sentence below for me.

I think Pirelli have done a good job because.......
I think the fans have been treated like **** because

Otherwise you just come across as someone who spouts opinion but with absolutely no justification.

[joeyz_f1]

I think Pirelli have done a good job because the FIA reacted to fans complaints about "boring" one-stop races and basically told Pirelli to make crap tyres. Pirelli have successfully made tyres to please the FIA and most of the teams. It could be worse, we could have more punctures. If a tyre company decided not to obey the FIA's request to make crap tyres, they might have their contract canceled right then and there. What more could Pirelli do?
I think the fans have treated them like **** because the same fans who bitched about one-stop races, are now bitching about the side-effects of spicing up the show with crap tyres.

[Daniel]

I think Pirelli have done a good job because the FIA reacted to fans complaints about "boring" one-stop races and basically told Pirelli to make crap tyres. Pirelli have successfully made tyres to please the FIA and most of the teams. It could be worse, we could have more punctures. If a tyre company decided not to obey the FIA's request to make crap tyres, they might have their contract canceled right then and there. What more could Pirelli do?
I think the fans have treated them like **** because the same fans who bitched about one-stop races, are now bitching about the side-effects of spicing up the show with crap tyres.

Drivers almost getting killed by exploding tyres is "spicing up the show"? Tell me more!

[joeyz_f1]

Drivers almost getting killed by exploding tyres is "spicing up the show"? Tell me more!
*le sigh* Do you remember 2010 by chance? When nearly everyone was bitching about allegedly "boring" 1-stop races? Think back to that season, and maybe you'll understand where I'm coming from.

[SGWilko]

Drivers almost getting killed by exploding tyres is "spicing up the show"? Tell me more!

Steady, the accident that Ralf suffered at Indy in 2005 was far more dangerous than what happened at Silverstone. So was what happened to Kimi when his front tyre turned square, or Mansell's glowout with a car right behind him.

It happens.

What is clear is that something was cutting the inside shoulder of the left tyres. Mostly this affected the rears, but we had one failure on a front tyre I think. We need to find out why this happened this year and not last. Is it the turn 4 curb? Are they driving differently than last year.....

Pirelli have after all tried to make changes, but were not allowed to do so by some teams. And they cannot test.

Bit silly really - F1 only has itself to blame.

[Daniel]

*le sigh* Do you remember 2010 by chance? When nearly everyone was bitching about allegedly "boring" 1-stop races? Think back to that season, and maybe you'll understand where I'm coming from.

Do you remember 2013? You know, the year where Pirelli's started exploded because they weren't up to the punishment of being on an F1 car on a track which wasn't new? When the tyres more or less dictated the racing as opposed to merely being a part of it?

Yeah, 2010 wasn't the most exciting year, but at least the tyres were safe and enabled the best drivers to win.

[Daniel]

Steady, the accident that Ralf suffered at Indy in 2005 was far more dangerous than what happened at Silverstone. So was what happened to Kimi when his front tyre turned square, or Mansell's glowout with a car right behind him.

It happens.

What is clear is that something was cutting the inside shoulder of the left tyres. Mostly this affected the rears, but we had one failure on a front tyre I think. We need to find out why this happened this year and not last. Is it the turn 4 curb? Are they driving differently than last year.....

Pirelli have after all tried to make changes, but were not allowed to do so by some teams. And they cannot test.

Bit silly really - F1 only has itself to blame.

The changes were nothing to do with the sidewall though! The changes were to combat delamination which is a different thing.

I'm not sure I agree that the Indy accidents were worse, tbh I think they're all extremely serious and could have resulted in death or serious injury.

[SGWilko]

Maybe the drivers are cutting the corners more to 'straighten' corners as much as possible in order to pet less wear on the contact patch. In doing so they ma have inadvertantly created another problem......

[SGWilko]

The changes were nothing to do with the sidewall though! The changes were to combat delamination which is a different thing.

I'm not sure I agree that the Indy accidents were worse, tbh I think they're all extremely serious and could have resulted in death or serious injury.

But is the sidewall or the shoulder the issue? Is a change in driving style the issue.......?

[SGWilko]

Also, the tyres held up in Spain, where there is enormous load on the left side tyres, but no curb like Silverstone......

[Daniel]

Maybe the drivers are cutting the corners more to 'straighten' corners as much as possible in order to pet less wear on the contact patch. In doing so they ma have inadvertantly created another problem......

Now that i agree with, I'm an old fashioned guy and don't tend to drive on paths or over roudabouts when I'm on the road, I also feel that a similar attitude should be taken in F1. Drive on the black stuff or risk a penalty. But at the moment the FIA take the silly view that you can drive halfway off the track, so Pirelli should have designed the tyres accordingly.

[Daniel]

But is the sidewall or the shoulder the issue? Is a change in driving style the issue.......?

The changes are down to the adhesive used on the tyres, there is to my knowledge, no strengthening of the sidewall or shoulder so as to make them less vulnerable to cuts from kerbs.

[joeyz_f1]

Do you remember 2013? You know, the year where Pirelli's started exploded because they weren't up to the punishment of being on an F1 car on a track which wasn't new? When the tyres more or less dictated the racing as opposed to merely being a part of it?

Yeah, 2010 wasn't the most exciting year, but at least the tyres were safe and enabled the best drivers to win.
And people were bitching about exactly that back in 2010. "Waaaaaaah, it's so predictable!" "Waaaaaaah, [Red Bull/Ferrari] won again, this is so boring!". Pirelli are making weak tyres because the FIA told them to. And the FIA told them to, because of pressure and complaints from fans. I don't think it's difficult to understand, but if you can specify what part is confusing you, I'd love to help.

[Daniel]

And people were bitching about exactly that back in 2010. "Waaaaaaah, it's so predictable!" "Waaaaaaah, [Red Bull/Ferrari] won again, this is so boring!". Pirelli are making weak tyres because the FIA told them to. And the FIA told them to, because of pressure and complaints from fans. I don't think it's difficult to understand, but if you can specify what part is confusing you, I'd love to help.

You're confusing things there, people complained that the tyres were not degrading enough, no one ever complained about tyres not delaminating enough or having sidewalls which were too strong and wouldn't develop cuts in the side of the tyre which would go on to cause tyre failures which put the lives of the drivers at risk. I don't recall people ever asking for "weak" tyres and I certainly don't recall the FIA setting out requirements for less robust tyres, merely tyres which would degrade in terms of performance more quickly.

[SGWilko]

The changes are down to the adhesive used on the tyres, there is to my knowledge, no strengthening of the sidewall or shoulder so as to make them less vulnerable to cuts from kerbs.

So, are the sidewalls the same as last year then?

[joeyz_f1]

You're confusing things there, people complained that the tyres were not degrading enough, no one ever complained about tyres not delaminating enough or having sidewalls which were too strong and wouldn't develop cuts in the side of the tyre which would go on to cause tyre failures which put the lives of the drivers at risk. I don't recall people ever asking for "weak" tyres and I certainly don't recall the FIA setting out requirements for less robust tyres, merely tyres which would degrade in terms of performance more quickly.
A side effect of having softer tyres that produce three-stop and four-stop races is that more punctures and delaminations occur.

[Daniel]

So, are the sidewalls the same as last year then?

I think the answer to that is that neither of us know ;) If they are meant to be and the track hasn't changed then Pirelli have manufacturing issues, if they are the same and the track has changed then it's the tracks fault.

[SGWilko]

I think the answer to that is that neither of us know ;) If they are meant to be and the track hasn't changed then Pirelli have manufacturing issues, if they are the same and the track has changed then it's the tracks fault.

Or, if the lines taken by the drivers have changed, then what?

[Daniel]

Or, if the lines taken by the drivers have changed, then what?

I think we're getting into the realm of merely thinking of possible excuses as to why Pirelli aren't to blame.

Pirelli haven't come out and blamed the track or the drivers or the teams just yet, to me this suggests that they believe that the most likely explanation for the failures is that the tyres weren't up to the job expected of them.

[Daniel]

The changes are down to the adhesive used on the tyres, there is to my knowledge, no strengthening of the sidewall or shoulder so as to make them less vulnerable to cuts from kerbs.

Pirelli have confirmed that the issues are not related to the new bonding which would make sense because it's not the way the tyre is bonded that would give a tyre resistance to cuts, unless I'm very much mistaken of course....

PIRELLI :: TYRE (http://www.pirelli.com/tyre/ww/en/news/2013/06/30/2013-british-grand-prix-%E2%80%93-race/)

[SGWilko]

I think we're getting into the realm of merely thinking of possible excuses as to why Pirelli aren't to blame.

Pirelli haven't come out and blamed the track or the drivers or the teams just yet, to me this suggests that they believe that the most likely explanation for the failures is that the tyres weren't up to the job expected of them.

Keeping ones pie hole shut until in full ownership of the facts might be their game. If they are potentially mounting a legal suit for all the bad publicity, they'd be wise to keep quiet until they know, without doubt, the cause of the issue.

And, FWIW, I hope they do take action.

[Daniel]

Keeping ones pie hole shut until in full ownership of the facts might be their game. If they are potentially mounting a legal suit for all the bad publicity, they'd be wise to keep quiet until they know, without doubt, the cause of the issue.

And, FWIW, I hope they do take action.

If Pirelli have done nothing wrong in this situation then I do hope their reputation is restored.

[musyarofah]

Dunlop or goodyear :D

but bridgestone will be great :)

[SGWilko]

If Pirelli have done nothing wrong in this situation then I do hope their reputation is restored.

It cannot be, and that is the problem they (Pirelli) are faced with. Stuck in a competition where they are not allowed to test, and the teams are so self centred they wont even allow changes.

I suspect there is a very winnable legal suit to be filed in the near future.....

[Daniel]

It cannot be, and that is the problem they (Pirelli) are faced with. Stuck in a competition where they are not allowed to test, and the teams are so self centred they wont even allow changes.

I suspect there is a very winnable legal suit to be filed in the near future.....

Well we'll see, personally I feel Pirelli are to blame, but only time will tell.

[SGWilko]

Dunlop or goodyear :D

but bridgestone will be great :)

Dunlop should stick with the Green Flash and wheelbarrow tyres.

GoodYear have already been screwed over once by F1, so once bitten.

Bridgestone have no interest, and why would they.

Michelin have had their fingers burned once too........

[SGWilko]

Well we'll see, personally I feel Pirelli are to blame, but only time will tell.

The tyre may be flawed, but Pirelli were prevented from making changes by the teams and the stupid F1 rule system. That is force majure in my book.

Boeing wouldn't build a plane without testing it first, so why does F1 think it acceptable to allow the most important interface between car and track to be produced without allowing testing at the most demanding tracks?????

Oh, and in relevant cars too......

[henners88]

It cannot be, and that is the problem they (Pirelli) are faced with. Stuck in a competition where they are not allowed to test, and the teams are so self centred they wont even allow changes.

I suspect there is a very winnable legal suit to be filed in the near future.....
Not an easy situation for any tyre manufacturer to be in. Bridgestone and Michelin had time to test and under different regs and still got it very wrong on occasion. People forget that. The buck stops with the FIA and it needs to be sorted and quickly. Sod individual teams and their demands, they need to do something in the interests of safety and every team involved.

[Daniel]

The tyre may be flawed, but Pirelli were prevented from making changes by the teams and the stupid F1 rule system. That is force majure in my book.

Boeing wouldn't build a plane without testing it first, so why does F1 think it acceptable to allow the most important interface between car and track to be produced without allowing testing at the most demanding tracks?????

Oh, and in relevant cars too......

Like I said, the changes they were blocked from making were to the adhesives used to bond the tyre, this was to deal with the delaminating issue which is a different one.

I agree that not being able to test is silly, IMHO Pirelli were never up to the job of making tyres in F1 with testing and so on, but to make them do it without testing is just asking for trouble.

[Daniel]

Not an easy situation for any tyre manufacturer to be in. Bridgestone and Michelin had time to test and under different regs and still got it very wrong on occasion. People forget that. The buck stops with the FIA and it needs to be sorted and quickly. Sod individual teams and their demands, they need to do something in the interests of safety and every team involved.

I agree that the FIA are very much to blame in this.

[SGWilko]

Oh, how I'd laugh if Pirelli put out the following statement;

On legal advice, and as a result of the current rule structure and the requirement of unanimous agreement from the teams, we have been advised to withdraw from participation in F1 with immediate effect.

That would make my day!!!! ;)

[Daniel]

Oh, how I'd laugh if Pirelli put out the following statement;

On legal advice, and as a result of the current rule structure and the requirement of unanimous agreement from the teams, we have been advised to withdraw from participation in F1 with immediate effect.

That would make my day!!!! ;)


Interesting words from Newey on the subject actually, perhaps I will revise my stance on the subject...... Still, Pirelli shouldn't have made tyres which were this weak, but IF and I stress IF, the new tyre would have sorted the issue.....

Red Bull call for F1 to revert to 2012 tyres | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/06/30/uk-motor-racing-prix-tyres-redbull-idUKBRE95T0EY20130630)

Lauda talking crap as usual. Like Pirelli aren't going to want to make changes to the tyres...... This isn't the 60's/70's matey.....

[SGWilko]

Still, Pirelli shouldn't have made tyres which were this weak.

How do they know if the tyres are 'that weak' if they cannot test? It's crazy.

[Daniel]

How do they know if the tyres are 'that weak' if they cannot test? It's crazy.

I take your point, but it's not like they've had no testing at all is it? *cough* mercedes *cough*

I still feel that Pirelli are still probably to blame, but if Newey says that the revised tyre would have changed things then I'm willing to at least wait and see what comes out before I go hammering nails into Pirelli's coffin.

[Ranger]

After today, and all the other controversy we have had I can't see Pirelli continuing.

So who are realistic candidates to replace them?

I still think Pirelli will be there next year.

[joeyz_f1]

I still think Pirelli will be there next year.
I hope so.

[SGWilko]

I take your point,

Good, because as points go, it's not insignificant!!!

[Daniel]

Good, because as points go, it's not insignificant!!!

But don't ignore what i said ;) Anyway lets see what comes out after investigations are carried out ;)

[SGWilko]

I still think Pirelli will be there next year.

I am sure they will.

How would a new supplier prepare if they cannot test? If they were allowed to test, that then is putting Pirelli at a disadvantage, and any lawyer worth a dime would cream the FIA in the courtroom on that one alone.....

[pino]

I thought this was about who will/should provides next seasons tyres...not who to blame for this year. Stupid me as usually :rolleyes:

[zako85]

I saw in the news, Hankook already stated that it is too late for them to start working on 2014 F1 tires.

[SGWilko]

I thought this was about who will/should provides next seasons tyres...not who to blame for this year. Stupid me as usually :rolleyes:

Pirelli should continue, if they want to that is. Otherwise Michelin perhaps?

[Koz]

I still think Pirelli will be there next year.

Why would they?

They have been humiliated time and again. No one care why the tyres suck, why there are failures or the politics of all this.

When people see "Pirelli failure", "safety concerns" and "Pirelli blowouts" in their newspaper and news, what would your average customer think?
It doesn't fill them with confidence. The players who are in F1 are there for one thing: IMAGE, and this will lose Pirelli business, so why would they want to stick around?

[DexDexter]

Pirelli should continue, if they want to that is. Otherwise Michelin perhaps?

Realistically it's too late for any other company to step in.

[steveaki13]

Its tough because only Pirelli have the chance to get 2014 tyres ready in time. So for this reason I suppose they are most likely, but as Koz said what happens if the want out?
I assume they have a contract? If so they will be made to stay in 2014 leaving F1 to look for a supplier in 2015.

If however Pirelli could and would want to leave then F1 would be in trouble. It would be too late and therefore no other company would step forward that late.

[ioan]

Rest assured, if they really want to be in F1 circus both Michelin and Bridgestone can produce suitable F1 tires within a few months from now. They have the knowledge, more so than Pirelli, it's just a question of wanting to do it.

[Knock-on]

Rest assured, if they really want to be in F1 circus both Michelin and Bridgestone can produce suitable F1 tires within a few months from now. They have the knowledge, more so than Pirelli, it's just a question of wanting to do it.

Come on fella, you know better than that.

Pirelli arent some back street tyre retreaders but a top 10 world player and the 2nd biggest in Europe. Theyre not some bunch of muppets.

Whats going on is wrong but it cant all be blamed on Pirelli (or some historic Rally tyre they once produced)

They cocked up at Silverstone but DO need more testing. What is more at fault in my mind is the FIA and their approach to this. Some people with egg on their face need to fess up and do the decent thing.

[RedBullian1]

Pirelli should continue, if they want to that is. Otherwise Michelin perhaps?

Bridgestone

[SuperCooperDuper]

"Running pressures low is good for durability, but it means the contact patch of the tyre moves towards the inside shoulder - the very area that was being punished by the kerbs.
As Red Bull technical chief Adrian Newey said: "The tyre failures appeared to have been from the inside shoulder of the rear tyre. By raising the pressure then you move the contact pressure [patch] more to the centre of the tyre and less onto the edge"

So were the teams running the tires below Pirelli psi spec? That is what I would like to know, because if so then how can you fault Pirelli?

[Mekola]

The situation is complicated. Pirelli is not liked by fans by the current situation but, with the rules imposed to tyre suppliers, Michelin, Goodyear and Bridgestone are unlikely to take the role. Perhaps a company like Cooper Avon is more suitable to be the official F1 tyre supplier in this case.

[zako85]

"Running pressures low is good for durability, but it means the contact patch of the tyre moves towards the inside shoulder - the very area that was being punished by the kerbs.
As Red Bull technical chief Adrian Newey said: "The tyre failures appeared to have been from the inside shoulder of the rear tyre. By raising the pressure then you move the contact pressure [patch] more to the centre of the tyre and less onto the edge"

So were the teams running the tires below Pirelli psi spec? That is what I would like to know, because if so then how can you fault Pirelli?

Because the part of quote with "Running pressures low is good for durability" may be giving the hint that the teams were so desperate to improve the durability of these tires that they might have used lower than recommended tire pressures.

the gorakkali tyre was a good Tyre of motor.

[Bagwan]

James Allen is saying the recommended pressure from Pirelli was 19psi , and that some teams were going below that number .
He says it's for more grip , not durability , which makes sense .

So , those teams below the recommended pressure , looking for grip , have nobody but themselves to blame .


Pirelli have really been screwed with here .
There's obviously not enough testing for the tires . All of them can agree on that .
And Pirelli cannot trust the teams to run the tires within the recommended parameters .

+2psi was the solution on the fly , and that leads one the think that this was an obvious fix .

Of course , in the high pressure world of F1 , they push the limits , but isn't it a bit rich to be blaming Pirelli for their own greed ?

[joeyz_f1]

James Allen is saying the recommended pressure from Pirelli was 19psi , and that some teams were going below that number .
He says it's for more grip , not durability , which makes sense .

So , those teams below the recommended pressure , looking for grip , have nobody but themselves to blame .


Pirelli have really been screwed with here .
There's obviously not enough testing for the tires . All of them can agree on that .
And Pirelli cannot trust the teams to run the tires within the recommended parameters .

+2psi was the solution on the fly , and that leads one the think that this was an obvious fix .

Of course , in the high pressure world of F1 , they push the limits , but isn't it a bit rich to be blaming Pirelli for their own greed ?
It ' s hard to read your post with all those spaces . :p :

[greencroft]

There was a similar situation a while back with recommended camber settings that some teams were ignoring in order to get the tyres switched on sooner in qualifying.

[Bagwan]

It ' s hard to read your post with all those spaces . :p :

Try squinting your eyes a little .

[SGWilko]

To reinforce Baggy's post earlier, see this from the horses' mouth!

Pirelli unveils short and long term fixes for tyre failuresJames Allen on F1 (http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/07/pirelli-unveils-short-and-long-term-fixes-for-tyre-failures/)

An excellent article, and it is interesting that Pirelli want the FIA to police how the teams use the tyres by utilising 'live monitoring'.

Seems Pirelli are fed up being made to look foolish by the teams not using the tyres as directed.

[Knock-on]

Ok, why would teams run a LR on a RR if they know the tyres are directionally exclusive?

Apart from that, if the teams are taking the p!ss then it's their fault.

[SGWilko]

Ok, why would teams run a LR on a RR if they know the tyres are directionally exclusive?

Apart from that, if the teams are taking the p!ss then it's their fault.

Are they not just re-fitting the LR back on the LR, but taking the tyre off the rim, and mounting it tother way round? That's a rhetorical guess BTW!

[airshifter]

To reinforce Baggy's post earlier, see this from the horses' mouth!

Pirelli unveils short and long term fixes for tyre failuresJames Allen on F1 (http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/07/pirelli-unveils-short-and-long-term-fixes-for-tyre-failures/)

An excellent article, and it is interesting that Pirelli want the FIA to police how the teams use the tyres by utilising 'live monitoring'.

Seems Pirelli are fed up being made to look foolish by the teams not using the tyres as directed.

I'd be interested to know if all the cars that lost tires had them mounted in the wrong direction. Being this is F1 it seems unlikely that so many teams screwed it up by accident... maybe they think there is something to be gained by mounting them incorrectly? But in either case if they mounted them wrong they created the dangers on track. Would fines be in order?

[henners88]

Quite a few teams spray paint the drivers initials and designated use on the side walls. For instance Ferrari put FA for their driver and LR, RR, RF, LF so that the pit crews are taking them to the correct sides of the pit boxes. Strange how mistakes have happened with a system like this, unless they have abandoned the procedure.

[SGWilko]

I'd be interested to know if all the cars that lost tires had them mounted in the wrong direction. Being this is F1 it seems unlikely that so many teams screwed it up by accident... maybe they think there is something to be gained by mounting them incorrectly? But in either case if they mounted them wrong they created the dangers on track. Would fines be in order?

Yes, they did - it is in Pirelli's press release. Quite conclusive that methinks!

[SGWilko]

Quite a few teams spray paint the drivers initials and designated use on the side walls. For instance Ferrari put FA for their driver and LR, RR, RF, LF so that the pit crews are taking them to the correct sides of the pit boxes. Strange how mistakes have happened with a system like this, unless they have abandoned the procedure.

I think switching the tyres is an intentional thing Henners, not a spotty YTS bods mistake!!!

[henners88]

I think switching the tyres is an intentional thing Henners, not a spotty YTS bods mistake!!!
Ah right. Lets hope the teams don't decide they can get a few extra tenths by putting fronts on the rears in future then! :p

[SGWilko]

Ah right. Lets hope the teams don't decide they can get a few extra tenths by putting fronts on the rears in future then! :p

If it would offer speed benefits, you can bet your bottom dollar they'd try.......

[Bagwan]

Yes, they did - it is in Pirelli's press release. Quite conclusive that methinks!

Well , in that case , I think a big ol' public apology from those teams would be in order .

A lot of rocks have been thrown at Pirelli , and this shows that they have been treated really poorly .
If the FIA wish to have a tire supplier next year , any brand , they need to have the teams admit that they have been pushing the recommended parameters beyond the safe point .

In essence , they need to restore Pirelli's reputation , in order to have them , or anyone , want to make tires for F1 .

[AndyL]

I'd be interested to know if all the cars that lost tires had them mounted in the wrong direction.

Pirelli's statement implies they did, but not 100% clear.

[AndyL]

Are they not just re-fitting the LR back on the LR, but taking the tyre off the rim, and mounting it tother way round? That's a rhetorical guess BTW!

I can't quite work that out either. Pirelli's comments about the different load-bearing characteristics of the inner and outer sidewalls seems to suggest that the teams were doing what you describe - remounting the tyres so the inner sidewall is on the outside and the outer is on the inside. Do the Pirellis have the coloured bands/logos on both sides though? You'd see the blank side of the tyre if not.
There are pictures on the web of a Mercedes car showing the rotation arrow pointing in the wrong direction - so they had mounted the tyres on the rims normally, but then swapped the left and right wheels.
Pirelli's statement also describes the teams putting the right tyre on the left side of the car and vice versa.

[SGWilko]

Pirelli's statement also describes the teams putting the right tyre on the left side of the car and vice versa.

...which makes more sense I guess.

[airshifter]

Well , in that case , I think a big ol' public apology from those teams would be in order .

As well as forum posters. Make them apologize and beg forgiveness or give them a vacation I say! :laugh:

But all joking aside, any apology to Pirelli is probably less likely than my comment above.




A lot of rocks have been thrown at Pirelli , and this shows that they have been treated really poorly .
If the FIA wish to have a tire supplier next year , any brand , they need to have the teams admit that they have been pushing the recommended parameters beyond the safe point .

In essence , they need to restore Pirelli's reputation , in order to have them , or anyone , want to make tires for F1 .

At this point it may well end up in lawsuit if Pirelli feel their reputation has been tarnished too much. And to be honest I wouldn't blame them. Between the FIA and the teams, they have been raked over the coals.

[Knock-on]

I have some 2012 tyres I can check tomorrow to see if there is a difference between inner and outer walls but don't have any '13 tyres here in Switzerland.

[donKey jote]

Pirelli arent some back street tyre retreaders but a top 10 world player and the 2nd biggest in Europe.

yes, yes, and no... 3rd biggest in Europe at most :p

[donKey jote]

Because the part of quote with "Running pressures low is good for durability" may be giving the hint that the teams were so desperate to improve the durability of these tires that they might have used lower than recommended tire pressures.

in that was the reason, those teams were big fat donkeys and should admit their own negligence :andrea:

[Knock-on]

Well, there are no differences at all on last years tyre to indicate direction or what is an outer wall and inner. Only difference is a very small bar code that is partially obscured by the wheel rim on one tyre rim but nothing to say if its located on outside or inside.

Now, teams can naturally swap tyres across to even out wear but if a tyre is direction specific, then this shouldn't happen.

[jens]

Probably still Pirelli, because it is a bit hard to find a new supplier at such short notice. In any case an interesting political situation. :) Probably it will be resolved by the FIA by simply catering Pirelli's demands by giving them necessary testing time and some other stuff.

[RedBullian1]

I think Pirelli will stay because this is the first problem they have had. I want Bridgestone to come back, but I highly doubt it

[Koz]

And now Michelin might be back:

Michelin makes contact with FIA over supplying tyres in 2014 | Formula 1 | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN.co.uk (http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/122289.html)

[555-04Q2]

And now Michelin might be back:

Michelin makes contact with FIA over supplying tyres in 2014 | Formula 1 | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN.co.uk (http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/122289.html)

Read about this in our Sunday paper. Can't see it happening though with the amount of time left between now and the new season. Plus the teams need to know before the end of the year what tyres will be used so they can design the new cars. Michelin returning in 2014? Unlikely.

[Malbec]

Michelin returning in 2014? Unlikely.

It would be a legal minefield given Pirelli already have contracts for 2014 both with FOM and the vast majority of the teams. I think this is all about the FIA trying to assert its power over FOM, Pirelli is favoured by FOM while the FIA favours Michelin.

It won't be possible to have a new entrant this close to next season, not only is there limited time to develop a new tyre but existing testing limits will mean that it will be next to impossible for Michelin to ensure they are sufficiently tested before the season starts, let alone correct any flaws during the season as Pirelli have already discovered.

[555-04Q2]

It would be a legal minefield given Pirelli already have contracts for 2014 both with FOM and the vast majority of the teams. I think this is all about the FIA trying to assert its power over FOM, Pirelli is favoured by FOM while the FIA favours Michelin.

It won't be possible to have a new entrant this close to next season, not only is there limited time to develop a new tyre but existing testing limits will mean that it will be next to impossible for Michelin to ensure they are sufficiently tested before the season starts, let alone correct any flaws during the season as Pirelli have already discovered.

:up:

[David Murphy]

I can't see Michelin coming back but on the other with all the issues with the tyres this season pirelli may leave because it isn't doing the brand justice

[555-04Q2]

I can't see Michelin coming back but on the other with all the issues with the tyres this season pirelli may leave because it isn't doing the brand justice

This is what p!sses me off. Tyres that wear were asked for of Pirelli and then when they wear out to quickly or drivers have to nurse them home, everyone complains. The fault doesn't lie with Pirelli, yet they are the ones taking the flack :down:

[steveaki13]

This is what p!sses me off. Tyres that wear were asked for of Pirelli and then when they wear out to quickly or drivers have to nurse them home, everyone complains. The fault doesn't lie with Pirelli, yet they are the ones taking the flack :down:

This post is exactly whats wrong with the situation in F1 at the moment.