Webber leaving F1 for Porsche at the end of 2013

[The Black Knight]

Just heard Mark Webber has signed a deal with Porsche to bring to a close his 12 year career in F1. I guess his position was untenable in RBR given what happened earlier in the year and that Sebastien is the Golden boy over there.

I, for one, wish Webber luck in his new venture. I've always appreciated his straight talking and honesty. There aren't many drivers out there nowadays who are willing to say it like it is.

[christophulus]

Webber confirms F1 exit to join Porsche WEC team - F1 Fanatic (http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/06/27/webber-confirms-f1-exit-to-join-porsche-le-mans-squad/)

The rumours were true then, this cropped up after one of the GPs early this season and was swiftly denied (no surprise there).

So who will replace him? Raikkonen? Or one of the Toro Rosso drivers?

[ShiftingGears]

Looking forward to watching more of the WEC next year, I hope it brings him and Porsche great success :up:

[Jag_Warrior]

I wish Webber the very best of luck. It's just too bad that Jaguar doesn't have a sports car team now, so he could (re)join that marque.

Raikkonen to Red Bull? Hmm... Karma might be getting set to pay young Sebastian a visit. :D

[The Black Knight]

I wish Webber the very best of luck. It's just too bad that Jaguar doesn't have a sports car team now, so he could (re)join that marque.

Raikkonen to Red Bull? Hmm... Karma might be getting set to pay young Sebastian a visit. :D

It's a great shame that Hamilton didn't hang on at McLaren for another year and move to RBR then. Then we'd see how good Seb really is.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Raikkonen to Red Bull? Hmm... Karma might be getting set to pay young Sebastian a visit. :D

That's imho the most probable option. Be careful however what you wish for - you might get it. We could end up with a Hamilton/Schumacher situation. Many thought that Hamilton would mop the floor with Rosberg. But instead Lewis just proves that Schumacher wasn't as far from his former self as many thought. Yes, Kimi could end the Vettel domination, but he could also prove that more of RB's success is down to Vettel's driving than some of his detractors are willing to concede.
It would be a quite interesting move though. Not too many world champions of the past have accepted another WDC as a team mate. For Vettel it is a no-win scenario. If Kimi beats him, all his detractors will have a field day. If he beats Kimi, they will simply change over to the 'golden boy' story line.

Great to see Webbo at Porsche :D They need experienced drivers and he is one. Will never forget his nasty flip in the Merc. That was properly scary.

[AndyL]

It's a great shame that Hamilton didn't hang on at McLaren for another year and move to RBR then. Then we'd see how good Seb really is.

Raikkonen should provide a pretty good yardstick if it's him who goes to Red Bull.

He's got to be the most likely candidate hasn't he. He's out of contract next year and would fit the sponsor's corporate image. I don't see either of the Torro Rosso drivers being ready to win a championship yet.

[zako85]

Why so little respect for STR drivers? STR is a low budget team and designs its own chassis. It's expected that they can't challenge for high positions. Getting in points is a prize big enough for the team. I'd understand the doubts about STR drivers is they were making obvious errors or mistakes on the race track, like say Grosjean.

Raikkonen is the most deserving driver of the RBR seat right now, but the big question is about whether RBR is willing to have two drivers who can simultaneously challenge for WDC. Signing a contract for just one year could be smart just in case if things go sour.

[Whyzars]

Oh no. Who will do Vettel's setup's now???? :) JOKING PEOPLE!!!



Seriously, Mark Webber has achieved a lot and is a great driver. I hope that Ricciardo gets his seat.

[AndyL]

Why so little respect for STR drivers? STR is a low budget team and designs its own chassis. It's expected that they can't challenge for high positions. Getting in points is a prize big enough for the team. I'd understand the doubts about STR drivers is they were making obvious errors or mistakes on the race track, like say Grosjean.

It's a fair point. Even if they're not championship contenders they could make solid number 2 drivers, which Red Bull might prefer after all the conflict in the team over recent years.
No doubt their motivation will be sky-high now that a seat in the top team is open, it'll be interesting to see what they do over the next few races.

[SGWilko]

Raikkonen to Red Bull?

Well, it is no secret that money isn't exactly flowing at LotuswasRenault....... It'd be Kimi's only real option of;

a good seat, and
employment security.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Well, it is no secret that money isn't exactly flowing at LotuswasRenault....... It'd be Kimi's only real option of;

a good seat, and
employment security.

If my beer-addled brain hasn't gone completely to waste yet, he also has ties with Red Bull already. Wasn't his rallye car running in Red Bull colours? It's also no secret that Kimi and Seb get along very well, which would be a huge change for RB ;) The only question would be the fact to have two champions in the team. Having two contenders in the team didn't work well in the past.

[joeyz_f1]

"Not bad for a number two driver."

I'll miss Mark.

[truefan72]

I wish Webber the very best of luck. It's just too bad that Jaguar doesn't have a sports car team now, so he could (re)join that marque.

Raikkonen to Red Bull? Hmm... Karma might be getting set to pay young Sebastian a visit. :D

well said

Webber did himself proud and came close to a WDC ( like rubens) late in his career. If he stayed on track in Korea we would be talking about 7 champs on the grid these past 2 years. I wish him the best at porsche.
Very interesting to see what RBR does. This is certainly going to have a ripple effect up and down the grid in terms of driver seat movements

[truefan72]

It's a great shame that Hamilton didn't hang on at McLaren for another year and move to RBR then. Then we'd see how good Seb really is.

indeed The Black Knight...Indeed!

[RS]

STR is a low budget team and designs its own chassis.

Kind of.

Kudos to Webber for choosing his own career path rather than being forced out of F1.

I'd like to see one of the TR drivers given a chance. It's about time Red Bull's junior programme bore fruit again and I'm not sure going into Seb's team would be a good idea for Kimi.

[The Black Knight]

That's imho the most probable option. Be careful however what you wish for - you might get it. We could end up with a Hamilton/Schumacher situation. Many thought that Hamilton would mop the floor with Rosberg. But instead Lewis just proves that Schumacher wasn't as far from his former self as many thought. Yes, Kimi could end the Vettel domination, but he could also prove that more of RB's success is down to Vettel's driving than some of his detractors are willing to concede.
It would be a quite interesting move though. Not too many world champions of the past have accepted another WDC as a team mate. For Vettel it is a no-win scenario. If Kimi beats him, all his detractors will have a field day. If he beats Kimi, they will simply change over to the 'golden boy' story line.

Great to see Webbo at Porsche :D They need experienced drivers and he is one. Will never forget his nasty flip in the Merc. That was properly scary.

I wouln't say that's quite accurate. I'd be interested to see exactly where Lewis ends up once he sorts his braking issues, we'll be able to judge better than but one thing is fore sure, Schumacher was still no slouch when he retired! :)

[steveaki13]

Good Luck to Mark

I have always liked Mark and enjoyed watching him race in F1.


Cant wait also to see him and Porsche have a crack at |Le Man next season.

[ioan]

Mark decided to emulate his idol, Helmuth Marko, and try to win the Le Mans 24 Hours race in a Porsche! Who would have thought this?! :laugh:

[Corvettian]

Why so little respect for STR drivers? STR is a low budget team and designs its own chassis. It's expected that they can't challenge for high positions. Getting in points is a prize big enough for the team. I'd understand the doubts about STR drivers is they were making obvious errors or mistakes on the race track, like say Grosjean.
Don't forget which team Vettel was driving for when he won his first race...

[Corvettian]

Webber is leaving Formula 1 at just the right time in his career, not hanging on desperately like some have done in the past. Porsche has a great history in endurance racing and an experienced driver like him is just what they need to give Audi some proper competition.
P.S. The new LMP1 Porsche looks superb!

[vhatever]

Just heard Mark Webber has signed a deal with Porsche to bring to a close his 12 year career in F1. I guess his position was untenable in RBR given what happened earlier in the year and that Sebastien is the Golden boy over there.

I, for one, wish Webber luck in his new venture. I've always appreciated his straight talking and honesty. There aren't many drivers out there nowadays who are willing to say it like it is.

So he says it like it is, ok. Well this is what he said:

Red Bull driver Mark Webber says his decision to leave Formula 1 at the end of the season had nothing to do with the Malaysia team orders controversy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23085501

But never pass up a chance to spew some bigoted hatred for a driver despite all matter of logic, reason, and facts.

[kfzmeister]

Well, it is no secret that money isn't exactly flowing at LotuswasRenault....... It'd be Kimi's only real option of;

a good seat, and
employment security.

I thought some major money just came their way. Some Saudi outfit with big cash. Mansour something. Making big claims about winning the championship in the next year.
If Raikkonen can really pour it on this year and the team really shows some signs, perhaps he won't move.

[steveaki13]

Webber is leaving Formula 1 at just the right time in his career, not hanging on desperately like some have done in the past. Porsche has a great history in endurance racing and an experienced driver like him is just what they need to give Audi some proper competition.
P.S. The new LMP1 Porsche looks superb!

I think so too. Its going to be a real challenge but one that promises to be exciting to follow.

[tfp]

Heard about this this morning, can't say I'm surprised. I bet he doesn't envy bieber s new team mate.
I also heard the rumour about Kimi going there. If Boullier has any brains, he will fight for him. Kimi is probably the best driver on the grid now and lotus simply can't afford to lose him.
After all, who on earth could replace him?

[zako85]

Don't forget which team Vettel was driving for when he won his first race...

It's widely believed that the 2008 Toro Rosso cars were replicas of RedBull chassis and probably illegal. Of course, this will not diminish Vettel's accomplishment in his first full time year. We had beaten his teammate, who was a pretty good driver IMO, as well as the fine pilots driving the "A team" cars.

[TheFamousEccles]

Here's hoping MW can finish the year with another visit to the top step of the rostrum, to cap off a solid career with a great team. As mentioned above, had he managed to not lose it in Korea we may well have been farewelling a WDC, but coulda-shoulda-woulda...

I will be interested in the future speculation of who fills the vacant RBR seat, I hope its Daniel but in reality you could put any of the drivers good enough to race in F1 into a great car and you would have a contender IMO.

[zako85]

When a good Formula 1 driver leaves for another motor competition, it always good for the other motorsport as that often greatly increases interest in the other motorsport. It will definitely be fun to see Webber in WEC. He will make a good company to Heidfeld, Buemi, and Bruno Senna. It's win-win for both sports. It's nice to see Webber move on to WEC at the time when he still has a good potential instead of pulling a Trulli or Villeneuve who both seemed to hang on in F1 forever, way past their prime and driving mediocre cars in the back of field.

[vhatever]

It's widely believed that the 2008 Toro Rosso cars were replicas of RedBull chassis and probably illegal. Of course, this will not diminish Vettel's accomplishment in his first full time year. We had beaten his teammate, who was a pretty good driver IMO, as well as the fine pilots driving the "A team" cars.


I'm sorry, the louts at your local pub do not constitute "wide belief".

[TheFamousEccles]

Some Q&A about stuff and things.

Q&A: Webber on F1 and his Porsche future - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/06/27/qa-webber-on-f1-and-his-porsche-future/)

[zako85]

I'm sorry, the louts at your local pub do not constitute "wide belief".


It's all over the internet. Just look up STR2 on wikipedia and follow the references or google for "STR2 newey". It was a Newey designed chassis, possibly lagging the RBR chassis by a few months and tweaks. Vettel did great in 2008, but it wasn't a Minardi with RedBull sticker he was driving that year.

[henners88]

I think Mark leaves F1 with a huge amount of respect from his peers. One of the true good guys of the paddock who was never afraid to rock the boat a little to get his point across. Drivers like him are a dying breed with the modern corporate robot mentality being the easier option. He's achieved way more than many drivers do in an F1 career and is someone, despite the friction at times, Vettel has openly said he has immense respect for. Someone who has pushed Vettel into competing at the level he does today. A genuinely nice guy who I think will be missed in the sport.

I hope he finds success with Porsche and works in the happy atmosphere he deserves. :)

[SGWilko]

bigoted

You kill me vhatever - priceless tripe as always.......

[vhatever]

It's all over the internet. Just look up STR2 on wikipedia and follow the references or google for "STR2 newey". It was a Newey designed chassis, possibly lagging the RBR chassis by a few months and tweaks. Vettel did great in 2008, but it wasn't a Minardi with RedBull sticker he was driving that year.


Why would I look up "STR2" when it was the STR3. You can't even get your chassis straight.

[The Black Knight]

So he says it like it is, ok. Well this is what he said:

Red Bull driver Mark Webber says his decision to leave Formula 1 at the end of the season had nothing to do with the Malaysia team orders controversy.

BBC Sport - Mark Webber: Sebastian Vettel row not reason for F1 exit (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23085501)

But never pass up a chance to spew some bigoted hatred for a driver despite all matter of logic, reason, and facts.

I don't really know what you're trying to say here. Given the vast majority of your posts I find it highly unlike you understand either but you go girl.

[vhatever]

I don't really know what you're trying to say here. Given the vast majority of your posts I find it highly unlike you understand either but you go girl.


You are confused about the fact that you said webber "just tells it like it is", when that same guy who "just tells it like it is", said the incident at malaysia had nothing to do with his retirement from F1, completely contrary to your earllier bogus claims in the original post. please take a basic english/logic course or something, as this is all very obvious and simple stuff you seem to not understand.

[henners88]

I don't really know what you're trying to say here. Given the vast majority of your posts I find it highly unlike you understand either but you go girl.
I really wouldn't waste your time Mr Knight. A room is very quiet if nobody responds :)

[The Black Knight]

You are confused about the fact that you said webber "just tells it like it is", when that same guy who "just tells it like it is", said the incident at malaysia had nothing to do with his retirement from F1, completely contrary to your earllier bogus claims in the original post. please take a basic english/logic course or something, as this is all very obvious and simple stuff you seem to not understand.

I don't see how the Malaysia incident had anything to do with his retirement. It was an incident, it happened, now it's over with. If Webber were ever going to retire it was going to be this year with the new rule changes happening for next year. You just like blowing things out of proportion.

PS Though it is not my first language, I can assure you my English is fine ;)

[The Black Knight]

I really wouldn't waste your time Mr Knight. A room is very quiet if nobody responds :)

You're right, henners. I'll just ignore him.

[vhatever]

I don't see how the Malaysia incident had anything to do with his retirement. It was an incident, it happened, now it's over with. If Webber were ever going to retire it was going to be this year with the new rule changes happening for next year. You just like blowing things out of proportion.

PS Though it is not my first language, I can assure you my English is fine ;)
So what was your early claim based upon:


Just heard Mark Webber has signed a deal with Porsche to bring to a close his 12 year career in F1. I guess his position was untenable in RBR given what happened earlier in the year and that Sebastien is the Golden boy over there.
.

now you make the bogus claim that it was actually what is going to happen NEXT year. I guess its hard to keep track of all your lies.

[zako85]

Why would I look up "STR2" when it was the STR3. You can't even get your chassis straight.


I absolutely can. Toro Ross started racing in 2008 with an updated 2007 STR2 chassis, then switched to STR3 chassis some time later. So my statement was correct. In any case, this didn't matter much. The STR3 was also widely believed to be a Newey chassis, as you can likely look up yourself? Why should I be wasting too much breath on correcting the obviously wrong statement by you. I just told you to do some homework. My time was too precious to figure out exactly which chassis name that particular Newey chassis was back in 2008.

[vhatever]

I absolutely can. Toro Ross started racing in 2008 with an updated 2007 STR2 chassis, then switched to STR3 chassis some time later. So my statement was correct. In any case, this didn't matter much. The STR3 was also widely believed to be a Newey chassis, as you can likely look up yourself? Why should I be wasting too much breath on correcting the obviously wrong statement by you. I just told you to do some homework. My time was too precious to figure out exactly which chassis name that particular Newey chassis was back in 2008.


Your time is too precious to have any idea what you are talking about, apparently, so just make it up as you go along, eh? Vettel didn't do much to impress while driving the STR2.Luizi outfinished him, and bourdais out outpointed him.

[zako85]

Your time is too precious to have any idea what you are talking about, apparently, so just make it up as you go along, eh? Vettel didn't do much to impress while driving the STR2.Luizi outfinished him, and bourdais out outpointed him.

It seems you love arguing for the sake of arguing. My opening statement was: Vettel did well in Neweys chassis in 2008. This is a well known fact. You disagreed. I directed you to look this up. Now who gives the flying f**k cares what was the name of that chassis, STR2 or STR3? It could have been called SuperTurbo3D200HD Toro Ross. It still wouldn't have changed the fact that it was a RBR chassis. But you seem to care about the nomenclature, so go look it up if it's really important to you, now that you have just now learned that Vettel was racing in a Newey chassis in 2008.

[vhatever]

It seems you love arguing for the sake of arguing. My opening statement was: Vettel did well in Neweys chassis in 2008. This is a well known fact. You disagreed. I directed you to look this up. Now who gives the flying f**k cares what was the name of that chassis, STR2 or STR3? It could have been called SuperTurbo3D200HD Toro Ross. It still wouldn't have changed the fact that it was a RBR chassis. But you seem to care about the nomenclature, so go look it up if it's really important to you, now that you have just now learned that Vettel was racing in a Newey chassis in 2008.


It wasn't a RBR chassis as it never would have fit the Ferrari engine. But i think any sane, intelligent person reading by now would have concluded you simply have no idea what you are talking about.

[SGWilko]

It wasn't a RBR chassis as it never would have fit the Ferrari engine. But i think any sane, intelligent person reading by now would have concluded you simply have no idea what you are talking about.

Maybe they adapted it to fit, which while being a compromise explains why they were never quite as quick as the 'works' team...?

[The Black Knight]

So what was your early claim based upon:



now you make the bogus claim that it was actually what is going to happen NEXT year. I guess its hard to keep track of all your lies.

Fair enough, it was a contradiction. But since I've read more about his decision and his reasons for it, coupled with the fact that Dietrich Mateschitz and Mark get along quite well, my opinion has changed, but you're welcome to yours ;)

[henners88]

Maybe they adapted it to fit, which while being a compromise explains why they were never quite as quick as the 'works' team...?
You mean like Brawn did in 2009 to a chassis that was designed around a Honda unit, but was adapted to fit a Mercedes engine? As you say, it can be done.

STR also had to wait until the Monaco GP in 2008 before they had the 2008 spec car. It was to be the last edition coming from Red Bull apparently. Hopefully this has cleared a few things up. :)

[kfzmeister]

Man love. :D


https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/267313_553489658043562_786992719_n.jpg

[truefan72]

You're right, henners. I'll just ignore him.

me too :rolleyes:

[steveaki13]

I really wouldn't waste your time Mr Knight. A room is very quiet if nobody responds :)

Why more people dont listen to you Henners I dont know.

Certain debates are not worth having

[zako85]

Maybe they adapted it to fit, which while being a compromise explains why they were never quite as quick as the 'works' team...?


Of course, the STR had to do some integration work. After all they had to fit many other things as well, like seats and steering wheel. Engine swap often is not a rocket science at all. Ask one of those local mom and pop shops that do engine swaps on ordinary cars. If a bunch of DIY enthusiasts can fit a Chevy V8 engine into a Miata (check out the V8 Miata forum), it should be a piece of cake for F1 team to adapt a chassis from one 2.4L V8 to another 2.4L V8 engine. Maybe they had to use different engine mounts and such. All formula 1 teams have significant fabrication facilities for such things. The STR might have done it by itself or with assistance of RBR.

[vhatever]

You mean like Brawn did in 2009 to a chassis that was designed around a Honda unit, but was adapted to fit a Mercedes engine? As you say, it can be done.

STR also had to wait until the Monaco GP in 2008 before they had the 2008 spec car. It was to be the last edition coming from Red Bull apparently. Hopefully this has cleared a few things up. :)


Brawn's chassis was not a "modified honda" chassis. it was changed during its design to be used with the merc engine.

[vhatever]

Of course, the STR had to do some integration work. After all they had to fit many other things as well, like seats and steering wheel. Engine swap often is not a rocket science at all. Ask one of those local mom and pop shops that do engine swaps on ordinary cars. If a bunch of DIY enthusiasts can fit a Chevy V8 engine into a Miata (check out the V8 Miata forum), it should be a piece of cake for F1 team to adapt a chassis from one 2.4L V8 to another 2.4L V8 engine. Maybe they had to use different engine mounts and such. All formula 1 teams have significant fabrication facilities for such things. The STR might have done it by itself or with assistance of RBR.


After the whole not knowing which chassis is which, it's boggling you want to weigh in with equal ignorance on engine swaps. Oh ya, it's a piece of cake to swap in a different engine in an F1 car. Putty knife, cheerypicker, table saw, and bubble gum and you are all set.

[henners88]

Brawn's chassis was not a "modified honda" chassis. it was changed during its design to be used with the merc engine.
False, lol

OT but to settle this, couldn't resist when when watching the stupid claims:


The 2009 car had been a long time in development, with Ross Brawn, The technical genius behind Michael Schumacher's glory days at Ferrari, at the helm. For one thing, the engine didn't fit properly. The car had not been designed for the Mercedes engine which was hastily put it, with some modifications to the chassis to make it fit.

it was revealed that the modifications made to the car to accommodate its Mercedes engine saw six inches removed from the rear end, severely compromising the car's center of gravity and by the time the team realized how changed the balance was, there was no time to commission a new design

"The chassis had the back six inches cut off to fit the engine in - the sort of thing you wouldn't normally do even with a test car," says my source. "And the gearbox was in the wrong place because the crank-centre height is different. There's a massive amount of compromise in the cars."

Those compromises introduced a significant performance deficit into the Brawn car, but it raced like that all year.
That is because the lead time on making a new chassis is several months, and at the time the team would have had to make the decision - in April - the car was dominating.

By the time it had dropped off the pace, and it was obvious the team needed the extra speed that would come with a bespoke chassis and improved weight distribution, it was too late to commission a new design.

It was well reported at the time that Brawn GP had received confirmation of a Mercedes engine as late as December 2008. That was just 3 and half months before the 2009 season so it was impossible to incorporate something as fundamental into a new chassis design. The Merc was made to fit. Nick Fry gave an interview to the BBC that year and said the modifications were made were very crude indeed. A hacksaw was even used to make the engine fit which is not what you'd expect to hear in modern F1.

Jenson Button and the Miracle of Brawn GP | Suite101 (http://suite101.com/article/jenson-button-and-the-miracle-of-brawn-gp-a342772)Brawn BGP 001 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brawn_BGP_001)

BBC - Andrew Benson: The remarkable story of Brawn GP (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2009/10/the_remarkable_story_of_brawn.html)

Settled..................

Back on the proper topic.....Nice to see Alonso still showing his respect for Mark at Silverstone after his annoucement. These two have had some hard scraps over the years but I've never heard either complain about the other afterwards. :)

[vhatever]

False, lol

OT but to settle this, couldn't resist when when watching the stupid claims:


It was well reported at the time that Brawn GP had received confirmation of a Mercedes engine as late as December 2008. That was just 3 and half months before the 2009 season so it was impossible to incorporate something as fundamental into a new chassis design. The Merc was made to fit. Nick Fry gave an interview to the BBC that year and said the modifications were made were very crude indeed. A hacksaw was even used to make the engine fit which is not what you'd expect to hear in modern F1.

Jenson Button and the Miracle of Brawn GP | Suite101 (http://suite101.com/article/jenson-button-and-the-miracle-of-brawn-gp-a342772)Brawn BGP 001 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brawn_BGP_001)

BBC - Andrew Benson: The remarkable story of Brawn GP (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2009/10/the_remarkable_story_of_brawn.html)

Settled..................

Back on the proper topic.....Nice to see Alonso still showing his respect for Mark at Silverstone after his annoucement. These two have had some hard scraps over the years but I've never heard either complain about the other afterwards. :)
\

what a bunch of nonsense. Brawn had no options at that point. it was Mercedes or bust, which he knew well before. you make it sound like brawn is a bumbling idiot who just woke up one day and had his own GP team.

[zako85]

After the whole not knowing which chassis is which, it's boggling you want to weigh in

It was me who called out your ignorance on the STR chassis in 2008. Like I said, this was a Newey designed chassis and that's that. You can't argue over that. If you want to sweep this issue under the rug and change the subject to argue about nomenclatures or in which specific way the RBR chassis was changed to work with Ferrari engine, then find someone else to argue about this, as I have no slighted interest in this insignificant matter. But you seem to care a lot. If that's the case, feel free to catalog all former Toro Rosso chassis, attach all technical documents you have and send to The Smithsonian.

[vhatever]

It was me who called out your ignorance on the STR chassis in 2008. Like I said, this was a Newey designed chassis and that's that. You can't argue over that. If you want to sweep this issue under the rug and change the subject to argue about nomenclatures or in which specific way the RBR chassis was changed to work with Ferrari engine, then find someone else to argue about this, as I have no slighted interest in this insignificant matter. But you seem to care a lot. If that's the case, feel free to catalog all former Toro Rosso chassis, attach all technical documents you have and send to The Smithsonian.


Why don't you go ahead and directly quote me where I said anywhere whatsoever that Newey didn't design it,

[TheFamousEccles]

This little debate is getting tedious. :rolleyes:

[jens]

Another infraction and warning to vhatever for using rude language and attacking members personally. It may feel a bit harsh, but we can't let the forum derail badly.

You can have your own opinion. But in the interest of discussion, it would be good to debate sensibly, try to understand others and concentrate on the point you are trying to make. Hard to achieve, I know. But it is part of our drive to improve ourselves. :) And even if you realize that despite your best efforts not all agree with you - well, that's life. Can't help it and personal attacks don't improve this situation one bit, quite the opposite.

I am sure you can make all those points you have made without being rude with others. You can think about it logically - with a more gentle and emphatic way of speaking others can understand you better than they do at the moment, so it would be worth it. :)

Anyway, now let's enjoy a sensible debate.

[jens]

And I wanted to say something on topic as well. Webber is a driver, who has had a career of two halves.

First one is the midfield career, which includes several memorable qualifying runs and general "punching above his weight" moments. Most of the time he was a team leader. But this era also included a lot of unluck with unreliability and by 2008 it looked like he was destined to stay in midfield forever unless RBR really came good. His age was already above 30 at the time and wasn't in the running for drives in top teams any more unlike he had been for Williams and Renault before 2005.

Then the top team career by finally starting to win races and getting lots of podiums. However, this also meant that he regularly fell into the second driver role of the team and didn't really win titles.

So a bit like Barrichello's two phases of his career (93-99 impressive midfielder, 00-05 top team #2). Unlike Barrichello Webber is not seeking for a third phase by changing teams to finally win the title elsewhere. Of course he joined F1 at a much older age than Barrichello too, so his time was always going to be a bit limited. So Webber can be happy that in his 30's he has actually had a good run at the sharp end of the field.

[vhatever]

Another infraction and warning to vhatever for using rude language and attacking members personally. It may feel a bit harsh, but we can't let the forum derail badly.

You can have your own opinion. But in the interest of discussion, it would be good to debate sensibly, try to understand others and concentrate on the point you are trying to make. Hard to achieve, I know. But it is part of our drive to improve ourselves. :) And even if you realize that despite your best efforts not all agree with you - well, that's life. Can't help it and personal attacks don't improve this situation one bit, quite the opposite.

I am sure you can make all those points you have made without being rude with others. You can think about it logically - with a more gentle and emphatic way of speaking others can understand you better than they do at the moment, so it would be worth it. :)

Anyway, now let's enjoy a sensible debate.


Announcing your infractions on a message board is highly inappropriate moderator behavior. You seemed to be more interest in the politics of "attack the new guy that hasn't been here for 10 years" than actually moderating, by both this comment and your recent actions as a mod, as well as inactions as a mod.

[Corvettian]

A hacksaw was even used to make the engine fit which is not what you'd expect to hear in modern F1.
Hacksaws are handy things; designers always leave bits sticking out in inconvenient places. You should only worry when an engineer asks for bigger and bigger hammers.

[Corvettian]

Hacksaws are handy things; designers always leave bits sticking out in inconvenient places. You should only worry when an engineer asks for bigger and bigger hammers.

Sorry, they're not called "hammers", they're called "tapometers".

[dj_bytedisaster]

Announcing your infractions on a message board is highly inappropriate moderator behavior. You seemed to be more interest in the politics of "attack the new guy that hasn't been here for 10 years" than actually moderating, by both this comment and your recent actions as a mod, as well as inactions as a mod.

Since when are infractions a secret. You don't have the slightest clue what proper moderator conduct is, else you would know that on most other boards you'd have taken delivery of a temporary ban by now. And you can bin the 'attack the new guy' claptrap. I got an infraction too, for ripping you a new one two weeks ago and I'm certainly not a new guy around here. Maybe if you would tone done your personal attacks, you wouldn't get so many flak.

But back to topic:
Just saw Webbo in the TB interview. Now that his retirement has been announced, he seems a lot less tense than at the start of the season.

[henners88]

Do we have the 'red card' icon under posts that receive infractions anymore? They were always public punishments and not something mods did in secret in the past I thought. That's 2 things I've corrected woo hoo!

Webber has nothing to lose now and can spend the rest of the season racing for himself rather than playing the team game. If only he was consistently fast enough to challenge Seb.

[steveaki13]

It might interesting to see how Webber performs now. He will not have much to worry about apart from driving as fast as he can. Afterall if he battles Seb against orders, what can they do. Sack him not going to go down well if its before the end of the season and hes leaving anyway.

Interesting stuff.

[Corvettian]

Webber has nothing to lose now and can spend the rest of the season racing for himself rather than playing the team game. If only he was consistently fast enough to challenge Seb.
That reminds me of Portugal 1995: David Coulthard, who had faithfully played the part of No.2 driver to Damon Hill, was told before qualifying that Williams was going to dispense with his services at the end of the season. He went out and took pole, then set fastest lap in the race, which he also won.

[steveaki13]

That reminds me of Portugal 1995: David Coulthard, who had faithfully played the part of No.2 driver to Damon Hill, was told before qualifying that Williams was going to dispense with his services at the end of the season. He went out and took pole, then set fastest lap in the race, which he also won.

Not against Seb, but lets hope Mark has a real go. That would make the season end more interesting for sure.

Although obviously Mark generally doesnt have the pace to bother him much, but at Silverstone Mark is epic. So we could be in for a classic British GP.

[Knock-on]

He was quick today. Was it 7 thou? Think he may challenge at the start unless his car 'bogs' down ;)

[steveaki13]

I have full confidence Mark can be in the top 10 after Lap 1. ;)

[Koz]

I have full confidence Mark can be in the top 10 after Lap 1. ;)

What are the possibilities that he and Vettel will tangle?

Well, provided his KERS actually works this time, and he can keep up with the front row.

[TheFamousEccles]

He was quick today. Was it 7 thou? Think he may challenge at the start unless his car 'bogs' down ;)

That was funny. I am not one for conspiracy theories but.... I predict that MW will get a blinder of a start (for once) and lead into the first corner and gallop into the distance, only to find his engine mysteriously down on power after the first tyre change, then the KERS will fail, then the DRS will stick open, then the tyres will all de-laminate, and in parc ferme it will be discovered that the car is underweight, using illegal blown diffusers and carrying a mysterious cache of an unidentified white powder, upon the discovery of such will mean that he is whisked of to prison for some "porridge" meaning he will default on his Porsche contract, and his dog will get hit by a bus.

But I might be wrong...

[Whyzars]

That was funny. I am not one for conspiracy theories but.... I predict that MW will get a blinder of a start (for once) and lead into the first corner and gallop into the distance, only to find his engine mysteriously down on power after the first tyre change, then the KERS will fail, then the DRS will stick open, then the tyres will all de-laminate, and in parc ferme it will be discovered that the car is underweight, using illegal blown diffusers and carrying a mysterious cache of an unidentified white powder, upon the discovery of such will mean that he is whisked of to prison for some "porridge" meaning he will default on his Porsche contract, and his dog will get hit by a bus.

But I might be wrong...

I was thinking that Webber will simulate next years engine by having 2 spark plugs removed but your scenario does sound much more feasible...

[Ari]

Mark decided to emulate his idol, Helmuth Marko, and try to win the Le Mans 24 Hours race in a Porsche! Who would have thought this?! :laugh:


hahaha love it! :D

[ioan]

Deal, we will ignore you too.

[samreddevilz]

Mark is a bit unlucky I think. He is in the Era of Vettel, Lewis & Alonso. Specially Vettel. He deserves at least one Title.

[zako85]

Mark is a bit unlucky I think. He is in the Era of Vettel, Lewis & Alonso. Specially Vettel. He deserves at least one Title.

The fans will remember how awfully close he was in 2010. Who knows, maybe if he had won in 2010, that would have given him a confidence boost to fight with Vettel in 2011.

[RedBullian1]

Mark is a bit unlucky I think. He is in the Era of Vettel, Lewis & Alonso. Specially Vettel. He deserves at least one Title.

But he had such a good car in 2010 and had a great chance to win the title

[steveaki13]

Yep. As said it was all on that final race of 2010.

[Koz]

Mark is a bit unlucky I think. He is in the Era of Vettel, Lewis & Alonso. Specially Vettel. He deserves at least one Title.

He had his chance, and he wasted it in in Korea.

[The Black Knight]

Mark is a bit unlucky I think. He is in the Era of Vettel, Lewis & Alonso. Specially Vettel. He deserves at least one Title.

I tend to agree with this to a certain extent but people have a point when they say he wasted it in Korea. The title was his if he didn't make that mistake and lose those 18 points. I felt gutted for him as I feel he was the better of the two RBR drivers that year and I do believe he deserves one title. There have been far lesser drivers than Mark whom have been world champion. I would love to see him be WDC. He's a gent and I've always had a lot of time for him.

[henners88]

But he had such a good car in 2010 and had a great chance to win the title
It was also a year where his team made it very clear who they supported and wanted to win the title. Webber is a strong character and was in with a shot for much of the year but things were very tense at Red Bull after Turkey and Silverstone and it wasn't just the stuff on track he had to deal with. I think the pressure got to him towards the end though.

[The Black Knight]

It was also a year where his team made it very clear who they supported and wanted to win the title. Webber is a strong character and was in with a shot for much of the year but things were very tense at Red Bull after Turkey and Silverstone and it wasn't just the stuff on track he had to deal with. I think the pressure got to him towards the end though.

Yup, we all remember the Red Bull steals your wings incident!

[Knock-on]

I'll always remember his excuse for a crash a couple of years ago.

"I ran out of talent" :laugh:

Top bloke that tells it straight, fesses up when he's wrong and comes across as honest.

[vhatever]

I tend to agree with this to a certain extent but people have a point when they say he wasted it in Korea. The title was his if he didn't make that mistake and lose those 18 points. I felt gutted for him as I feel he was the better of the two RBR drivers that year and I do believe he deserves one title. There have been far lesser drivers than Mark whom have been world champion. I would love to see him be WDC. He's a gent and I've always had a lot of time for him.

Spoken like someone who never watched the 2010 season.

I also disagree with his "gent" character. He's a crybaby, plain and simple. If he were teamed up with lewis for these last several years of his career and cried constantly the same way, he'd be derided by 95% of this message. Crying about vettel is A-ok, cause that's all they do, too.

But it was hilarious watching that smug cowardly putz crying about vettel not holding up team orders when he did the same umpteen times before.

[Koz]

Mark the chopper a gentleman?

The whiner, who isn't allowed to overtake? And can't manage to do it when he decides to go against the team?
Then whiner when his team mate, like himself, disobeys orders? And then chopping him at the end of the race?

Mark the chopper, who chops his teammate who is fighting for a championship in the final race of the season?
I don't understand how we went from a few years ago, everyone calling Webber a chopper and a dirty racer to this new level of respect he has. For being throughly thrashed by his team mate in the last few years.

Yes, what a gentleman indeed.

[henners88]

Sour grapes, how sad.

[jamesbrighton]

i like to see mark webber to win F1, he will thinks it will be good for him, thats why he leaving F1 for Porsche this year . Best of Luck Mark :)

[jens]

Webber is not someone, who I would describe as a "gentleman". An interesting character, maybe, but gentleman is someone else. He would be exactly that - "gentle", which means good and caring in nature. Webber doesn't remind the word 'gentle', quite the opposite.

Massa, Kovalainen and Rosberg are the kind of drivers, who would fit the description of a 'gentleman' well. We hardly ever have a bad word to say about their characters. It's their driving we have an opinion about!

[TheFamousEccles]

"smug cowardly putz" Righto...

Boring troll alert.

[RedBullian1]

It was also a year where his team made it very clear who they supported and wanted to win the title. Webber is a strong character and was in with a shot for much of the year but things were very tense at Red Bull after Turkey and Silverstone and it wasn't just the stuff on track he had to deal with. I think the pressure got to him towards the end though.

Maybe so, but he still was right there at Abu Dhabi. Can't say that Red Bull took away his title chance, because he had a chance to win it in the last race

[henners88]

I wasn't suggesting Red Bull hindered him or attempted to take away his title chance.

[vhatever]

"smug cowardly putz" Righto...

Boring troll alert.

Yep, smug, cowardly, lying, putz is an adequate description of webber. That's who this thread is about, btw, not me.

Webber, the same guy who, after being given an order to not to try to pass vettel, said:

"Of course I ignored the team as I want to try and get another place,"

[Whyzars]

Blah, blah, blah, cowardly, blah, blah, blah , vettel, blah, blah, blah


No man or woman who squeezes through Eau Rouge without lifting can ever be described as cowardly.

Qualifying is on so I must go back to watching the telly. :)