donkey of the race

[CNR]

Romain Grosjean

[longisland]

The Ferrari pair. Massa for crashing in the same spot twice and Fred overtaken 3 times in Monaco! Honorary mention to Max for running into Pastor and a toss up between Grosjean and Riccairdo.

[donKey jote]

Monaco :devil:

[donKey jote]

Alo says he didn't have any big problems, he was just slow :dozey:

[Robinho]

Massa, grosjean and also Perez for not knowing when to stick, tried the same thing too many times and ultimately got burnt.

Sent from North Korea using the dark network

[donKey jote]

Alain Prost for forgetting to turn up for the driver interviews :p

[dj_bytedisaster]

Pirelli

Vettel pretty much summed it up. Did 1:20-1.24's throughout the race and in the penultimate lap does a 1:16 just like that to get the fastest lap and get's told off by the mullahs behind the pit wall for going too fast - absolutely ridiculous. Pirelli must be gone from F1 as soon as possible.

[N4D13]

The circuit itself. Pérez also takes the cake for some overly aggressive overtaking - again.

[A FONDO]

The governing body that keeps this parody of a race in the calendar.

[kfzmeister]

Grosjean and Perez equally.

[christophulus]

Not sure what Grosjean was on this weekend as he seemed to have mellowed a bit recently. What exactly happened to Massa? If there was no car issue then he'll have to be the ultimate donkey.

[faster69]

Alonso

Derp derp.

He probably had the second best car out there. Over the course of the season Ferrari has clearly been the superior car.

[Zico]

Grosjean... his confidence will take such a huge knock after today that I fear it will not recover sufficiently for the next race to avoid being a liability yet again. What a dilemma Lotus are facing.


Surely Massa must have had a car issue, it's not like him to repeat a mistake like that.



The normally exceptional Alonso had a rare off day by his standards and was passed a few times, big deal but with there being several other far worse dangerous performances today, Why label Alonso as the donkey? I guess haters will hate.

[faster69]

I think Massa has never been 100% right since he came back from his accident and should probably think of retiring. It's not fair on him. He's never going to be that guy who drove flawlessly in Brazil 08 again.

[DexDexter]

Perez is the donkey of the year since his actions resulted in Vettel once again running away with the championship. Grosjean is another one, he's gotta go, the car is far too good for a driver who cannot keep on the road.

[faster69]

Kimi squeezed Perez. It's not like Perez wasn't going to make the corner.

Kimi is gonna get blown away by Vettel next year. Can't wait!!

[tjoepie]

IMO the idea that Massa's decline in form can be attributed solely to his crash is simplistic. In the first two races after his crash, he was 2nd then 3rd. He then proceeded to go slowly backwards...

[yodasarmpit]

We complain when there is a lack of overtaking attempts, and we seem to complain when someone at least gives it a go.

[ioan]

People seem to only like DRS overtaking where one car just drives past the other car, like on a highway!
Whatever happened to real racing and overtaking by smart car positioning and out-breaking the opponent?!

[N. Jones]

Chilton. I can't understand why he would push Maldonado over as far as he did.

[kfzmeister]

Kimi squeezed Perez. It's not like Perez wasn't going to make the corner.

Kimi is gonna get blown away by Vettel next year. Can't wait!!


If you google the word troll, all of your posts show up.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSGNZ16cUUSnRuEFKWa5-bYmALHZiOAJoh3CVdAvu4k1SCZbb3a-Q

[dj_bytedisaster]

If you google the word troll, all of your posts show up.

While his posts are mildly annoying he's just a militant Vettel fanboy. Doesn't make him a troll yet. We have equally fervent Alonso and Hamilton fanboys in here, who feel a need to bash every other driver as a matter of principle. And some of them are long time members. You wouldn't call them trolls, would you?

Anyways, since there were so many people working hard for a donkey, I'll do what most award people do and hand out several of 'em.

The 'A Matter of Principle' Award goes to Pirelli for turning another Grand Prix into a go-as-slow-as-possible-to-keep-position experience. Drivers being forced to go 3-4 seconds slower than possible is ridiculous.

The 'I don't need no stenkin' spacial awareness' Award goes to Mr. Max Chilton. That shunt of Maldonado could have ended very badly.

The 'Arthur Scargill Memorial' Award goes to Fernando Alonso for spending most of the day on strike and going backwards. Without Perez punting Kimi off, he'd have finished an embarrassing 9th.

The 'Oh, the transparentbit goes to the front?' Award goes to Romain Grosjean. He's starting to make Andrea de Cesaris look like a dependable finisher. Four shunts in as many days is ridiculous and he needs a very lengthy timeout.

The 'Your are to blame for this mess' Award goes to GP2 for producing an endless stream of crashkids over the last years. Grosjean, Maldonado, Chilton, Perez - all Alumni of the GP2 school of reckless driving...

[ShiftingGears]

Whatever happened to real racing and overtaking by smart car positioning and out-breaking the opponent?!

Grosjean seemed pretty capable of out-breaking Ricciardo yesterday. ;)

[Robinho]

I retract my earlier call for Massa, as apparemtly his crash was mechanical related, not error (although the identical one on saturday was still error)

I think Grosjean was unlucky, he made one error, albeit a large one and took another driver out. but Donkey he stays for me.

As for Perez, if you track his race it doesn't look so good - in the 1st couple of laps he twice cut chicanes when Button was alongside making an overtake and had to give up the place. He later pulled agood manouvre on Button and an opportunistic one on Alonso. he was close to over the edge in that one, but got the car up the inside and made the corner. As for the Kimi one, his earlier failed attempt which sent both drivers straight on he was close to getting right, but the 2nd one he came from way further back and Kimi was starting to move over to take the corner when, what to me looked like, an out of control Perez arrived. I don't feel he could have made the apex if Kimi had left him space. Ultimately he was having a decent race, but let himself down by getting a little too reckless IMO. Sutil and a couple of others showed how to make good clean passes. I would like to see the onboard of Kimi's last 5 laps after his puncture

[Storm]

Fernando for being quite slow for no apparent reason and getting passed easily by Sutil.

Chilton for causing that huge shunt. Grosjean should actually be donkey of the year in general.

[Big Ben]

Whoever decided Alonso should let Perez pass. It seems that nowadays it's enough to make half a pass.. get yourself alongside your opponent, push him off track and the rest will be done in the office. And of course Perez is a brave hopeless driver. He's not going to win anything so he can afford to take chances like this.

[henners88]

Grosjean I hate to say because I like the guy. Button is doing my head in a bit complaining about his teammate all the time too. Just race!

[jas123f1]

Perez - without any doubt.. in my opinion is that he is immature for the job.. first Button, then Alonso then Kimi ... If everyone should be like him, there wouldn't be any cars on the track in the end ..

[steveaki13]

Perez - without any doubt.. in my opinion is that he is immature for the job.. first Button, then Alonso then Kimi ... If everyone should be like him, there wouldn't be any cars on the track in the end ..

Apart from the fact Perez passed Button with a agreesive but fair move. Caught Alonso sleeping and then was squeezed in a breaking zone by Kimi which is not allowed.

Apart from those things that he did well or wasn't at fault for I agree he was terrible

[P3ws]

Apart from the fact Perez passed Button with a agreesive but fair move. Caught Alonso sleeping and then was squeezed in a breaking zone by Kimi which is not allowed.

Apart from those things that he did well or wasn't at fault for I agree he was terrible

I thought the Button move stuck. But to do the same on the likes of FA an Kimi, way overoptimistic.
Not a fan of FA but i must agree that FA did avoid collision by cutting the chicane. And was wrongfully demoted by the stewards.
Had he not done it, there were several cars behind that might have been involved in the tangle or would just cut the chicane themselves.
As for Kimi, he used the same line, lap after lap. Perhaps telling Checo not to stick his nose where it does not fit.
Perez just decided not to notice that. Boneheaded indeed.

[DexDexter]

Kimi squeezed Perez. It's not like Perez wasn't going to make the corner.

Kimi is gonna get blown away by Vettel next year. Can't wait!!

So if the driver behind isn't going to make the corner, it's the other guys fault if they make contact? What kind of logic is that?


Apart from the fact Perez passed Button with a agreesive but fair move. Caught Alonso sleeping and then was squeezed in a breaking zone by Kimi which is not allowed.

Apart from those things that he did well or wasn't at fault for I agree he was terrible

Turning into a corner is not squeezing. It's like saying that it's ok to come into the corner without any real chance of making the turn and still the guy in front should watch his mirrors instead of driving his car.

[steveaki13]

I have just watched it again and the more I see it, actually I was wrong. Raikkonen is not at fault 60-40 like I originally said. I now actually have it 75-25 to Perez.

He was clearly going to attack so I still feel Kimi should have given a bit more room. However Perez was never going to get through so should for his own sake backed off.

One of those things really, but definately not Kimis fault really, but he still moved slightly strangely rather than a normal turn in.

Humble Pie time.

[Knock-on]

I think it was Kimi yanking the young mans chain.

Donks for me is Romain and Max. I suppose Max has a slight excuse but Romain doesn't.

Fred was just asleep which is strange for him.

[The Black Knight]

Hardly a surprise but Grosjean.

I think the Max and Maldonado accident was just a racing incident. Grosjean has his bite of the pie once again.

[steveaki13]

I think Max appears to be struggling a bit at the moment. At Monaco he was struggling for pace and then was so busy with racing his inexperience showed and he lost concentration to bad affect.

[kfzmeister]

Perez - without any doubt.. in my opinion is that he is immature for the job.. first Button, then Alonso then Kimi ... If everyone should be like him, there wouldn't be any cars on the track in the end ..

Reminds me of someone else in Monaco recently. Wasn't it Hamilton that just thrashed around that course knocking Massa and Maldo into the barriers??

[The Black Knight]

Reminds me of someone else in Monaco recently. Wasn't it Hamilton that just thrashed around that course knocking Massa and Maldo into the barriers??

I blame Raikkonen for that. I also blame Massa and Maldonado for those Monaco incidents. You can't go to block someone in Monaco after they've committed to an overtaking maneuver like Kimi did yesterday and neither can you do it like Raikkonen did yesterday. What happened to leaving the driver one cars width?

Personally I think Checo drove a fine race and he deserved better. He's beginning to usurp Button the last few races. Interesting to see how it will continue.

[N. Jones]

I retract my earlier call for Massa, as apparemtly his crash was mechanical related, not error (although the identical one on saturday was still error)

I think Grosjean was unlucky, he made one error, albeit a large one and took another driver out. but Donkey he stays for me.

As for Perez, if you track his race it doesn't look so good - in the 1st couple of laps he twice cut chicanes when Button was alongside making an overtake and had to give up the place. He later pulled agood manouvre on Button and an opportunistic one on Alonso. he was close to over the edge in that one, but got the car up the inside and made the corner. As for the Kimi one, his earlier failed attempt which sent both drivers straight on he was close to getting right, but the 2nd one he came from way further back and Kimi was starting to move over to take the corner when, what to me looked like, an out of control Perez arrived. I don't feel he could have made the apex if Kimi had left him space. Ultimately he was having a decent race, but let himself down by getting a little too reckless IMO. Sutil and a couple of others showed how to make good clean passes. I would like to see the onboard of Kimi's last 5 laps after his puncture

Perez is under a lot of pressure to produce results.
I still think he should have stayed at Sauber one more year and Hulkenberg should be at McLaren.

[Odie Stracs]

How on earth can Perez be the donkey of this or any race!! First of all, we all complain when there is no overtaking, then this kid comes along and shows balls and to tries something that paid off twice, sure it was a bit risky but is that not why we all watch racing!!!

I'm loving watching him this year!!

[The Black Knight]

How on earth can Perez be the donkey of this or any race!! First of all, we all complain when there is no overtaking, then this kid comes along and shows balls and to tries something that paid off twice, sure it was a bit risky but is that not why we all watch racing!!!

I'm loving watching him this year!!

Yup, I'm certainly beginning to like his style.

[Anubis]

Has to be Grosjean for me. He's been around long enough now that he should be calming down, but shows no real sign of it, which has to be a concern. Perez was a little wild on occasion, but I rather like his "no respecting of reputation" approach. Rather that than a supine team mate just tooling around to support Button. On which note, Massa. Those two crashes were bizarre. Either something is wrong with the car or wrong with his head, as that was odd.

[neophyte]

GrosJean no doubt

Those of you who think perez was overagressive, I'd like to invite you to watch videos of the likes of Ayrton Senna, Giles Villanueve, Paul Tracy, etc etc.
Most of the time, monaco is a parade with no passing, this year, thanks to Sutil and Perez it was a heck of an entertaining race. Amongst other things, Car racing is about succesful and not-succesfull passing attempts. Raikonnen knew Perez was there, it wasn't the first passing attempt. If kimmi chose to close the door, he knew the possibility of contact was there. Racing incident IMHO.

[Duncan]

I think at this point "Heckuvajob" Grosjean must qualify for a lifetime achievement award. Nice mess all over the track...

Chilton's move on Maldonado definitely qualifies him as a strong runner up. Were it not for Heckuvajob's greater experience to the point where he really should know better, I'd give it to Chilton.

Checo was definitely being extremely aggressive, and his move on Kimi was probably pushing a little too hard, but I don't think I'd put his incident in anything like the same category as the other two...

[Big Ben]

I have nothing against perez trying to pass... I have something against him crashing into people and against the people who decided they should award him a pass that never happened.

[faster69]

I have just watched it again and the more I see it, actually I was wrong. Raikkonen is not at fault 60-40 like I originally said. I now actually have it 75-25 to Perez.

He was clearly going to attack so I still feel Kimi should have given a bit more room. However Perez was never going to get through so should for his own sake backed off.

One of those things really, but definately not Kimis fault really, but he still moved slightly strangely rather than a normal turn in.

Humble Pie time.

Perez could have backed off, but Kimi could have backed off too. Either that or drive faster so that the guy in the inferior McLaren swarming all over the back of you.

[Big Ben]

Perez could have backed off, but Kimi could have backed off too. Either that or drive faster so that the guy in the inferior McLaren swarming all over the back of you.

:laugh: kimi could have backed off... he would have had to back off a lot since he was quite a lot ahead :laugh: ... the things one can read sometimes.

[CNR]

Massa’s crash A Monday spent on analysis | Scuderia Ferrari (http://formula1.ferrari.com/news/monday-spent-analysis)
the accident was caused by an element of the front left suspension breaking

[MrJan]

How on earth can Perez be the donkey of this or any race!! First of all, we all complain when there is no overtaking, then this kid comes along and shows balls and to tries something that paid off twice, sure it was a bit risky but is that not why we all watch racing!!!

I'm loving watching him this year!!

I enjoy watching a driver that is aggressive, but I increasingly get the feeling that Perez is just downright dangerous and is going to cause a big accident some day. This attempt was made far too late and he didn't stand a hope in hell of making the corner, leading both of them to cut the chicane.

nw6YT4Z1SkI

The only reason that he didn't have his DNF earlier was because the drivers he was 'passing' were sensible enough to avoid the accident. Checo makes some really great moves and he's fast, but too often on Sunday I thought that he wasn't in complete control of the car, and that's not good.

[airshifter]

I enjoy watching a driver that is aggressive, but I increasingly get the feeling that Perez is just downright dangerous and is going to cause a big accident some day. This attempt was made far too late and he didn't stand a hope in hell of making the corner, leading both of them to cut the chicane.

nw6YT4Z1SkI

The only reason that he didn't have his DNF earlier was because the drivers he was 'passing' were sensible enough to avoid the accident. Checo makes some really great moves and he's fast, but too often on Sunday I thought that he wasn't in complete control of the car, and that's not good.

I'll be the first to admit that Checo made some moves that wouldn't have stuck, but what drivers in the history of the sport have made those major memorable passes without pushing too far at times? Being a big supporter of Kimi and also one of Perez.... Kimi closed the door when he knew the move was being made. I honestly think he thought Perez would check up so much that he would be stuck off line at the corner entrance. Should Sergio have known the move that late wouldn't stick? Probably so. But I don't think Kimi made any better judgement in the attempt, and had proved in previous laps he knew Perez was on the attack.

Pirelli

Vettel pretty much summed it up. Did 1:20-1.24's throughout the race and in the penultimate lap does a 1:16 just like that to get the fastest lap and get's told off by the mullahs behind the pit wall for going too fast - absolutely ridiculous. Pirelli must be gone from F1 as soon as possible.

Mullah (Arabic: ملا&#8206 ;) (noun) Used to refer to a Muslim man, in the Middle East and the Indian subcontinent, educated in Islamic theology and sacred law. The title, given to some Islamic clergy, is derived from the Arabic word مَوْلَى mawlā, meaning "vicar," "master" and "guardian." Also used in North Africa as an honorific attached to the name of a king, sultan, or member of the nobility. The title is now given to a variety of religious leaders, including teachers in religious schools, In large parts of the Muslim world, particularly Iran, Azerbaijan, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Turkey, Central Asia, Somalia and South Asia, it is the name commonly given to local Islamic clerics or mosque leaders. Also used in some Sephardic Jewish communities. It is primarily understood in the Muslim world as a term of respect for an educated man.

[airshifter]

Reported ^^^^

[CNR]

F1: Boullier Slams Perez, Defends Grosjean (http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-boullier-slams-sergio-perez-defends-romain-grosjean/) Boullier what a JACKASS Boullier Slams Perez, Defends Grosjean
Lotus F1 team principal Eric Boullier was in the unusual position on Sunday in Monaco of criticizing a rival for causing a collision while defending his own driver for doing the same after two separate incidents.

Boullier joined the growing chorus of critics of Sergio Perez after the Mexican hit the back of Kimi Raikkonen at the entry to the chicane, giving the Finn a puncture that ruined his race.

[henners88]

F1: Boullier Slams Perez, Defends Grosjean (http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-boullier-slams-sergio-perez-defends-romain-grosjean/) Boullier what a JACKASS Boullier Slams Perez, Defends Grosjean
Its no shock that Boullier would defend both his drivers for these incidents IMO. Kimi's race was ruined in effect by a rather optimistic move by Perez and earlier in the race Kimi had to take evasive action at the same corner because Sergio carried too much speed and forced both of them across the chicane. I enjoy Sergio's racing because its racing, but he did go beyond the limit a couple of times in Monaco. I hope it doesn't put him off though in the coming races. A bit of wheel banging is fine as long as your name isn't Lewis Hamilton.

Grosjean's shunt with Ricciardo was just careless, but perhaps Boullier is remembering Kimi did the same to Sutil in the 2008 race? Anyway. team principles are hardly going to publicly condemn their drivers and double standards are to be expected.

[zako85]

I enjoyed Perez's driving until the time of collision with Raikkonen. Perez was at fault here. He dived on the inside of that turn over what clearly was Kimi's racing line. In fact, it looked as if Kimi wasn't there, Perez probably would have missed the chicane, so aggressive was his dive into that turn. I do think Perez is a nice addition to F1. He showed everyone that he has teeth and will fight. He just shouldn't do stupid things.

[steveaki13]

Perez is also young, so Mclaren need to mould what is a fast driver, without losing his bite.

[i_max2k2]

Alonso - giving away positions like Christmas presents.
Max - teaching Maldonado a trick of his own.

Perez not so much though, but the mistake was his, but to give him credit he did try pretty hard.

I don't blame the tryre supplier as much, cause Monaco races don't play any different, it has always been about controlled attacks, and here it was just like before, except of course they had to go much slower.

[kfzmeister]

Max - teaching Maldonado a trick of his own.



Skip to 1:06 for a great shot of the crash.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vXP_e8adVo

[dj_bytedisaster]

I think we shouldn't be so specific and just declare them all donkey's for that stinker of a race. Pirelli, the Politbüro's behind the pitwall and the drivers for going along with such a travesty. :mad:

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/05/29/2013-monaco-grand-prix-team-radio/

Here's a team radio transcript of Monaco and it is a gut wrenching read :bones: Drivers being told to go a second slower, Vettel being told to give up on overtaking Rosberg halfway into the friggin' race, delta-orders everywhere.

Mitigating circumstances for Vettel for telling the Clown behind the wall where to shove it on lap 78.

This transcript alone looks devastating for the state of affairs. :bones:

[DexDexter]

I think we shouldn't be so specific and just declare them all donkey's for that stinker of a race. Pirelli, the Politbüro's behind the pitwall and the drivers for going along with such a travesty. :mad:

How the Monaco Grand Prix unfolded on team radio - F1 Fanatic (http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/05/29/2013-monaco-grand-prix-team-radio/)

Here's a team radio transcript of Monaco and it is a gut wrenching read :bones: Drivers being told to go a second slower, Vettel being told to give up on overtaking Rosberg halfway into the friggin' race, delta-orders everywhere.

Mitigating circumstances for Vettel for telling the Clown behind the wall where to shove it on lap 78.

This transcript alone looks devastating for the state of affairs. :bones:

I think you should stop watching F1 since you seem to loathe it so much in its current state. I like it, a lot more now than when I used to dose off after watching a red and white Mclaren or an active Williams going around the circuit alone for an hour.

[jens]

I think you should stop watching F1 since you seem to loathe it so much in its current state. I like it, a lot more now than when I used to dose off after watching a red and white Mclaren or an active Williams going around the circuit alone for an hour.

I agree. From all the races I have watched in F1, Monaco 2013 was well above average.

Alternatively people can go back in time and watch races like Australia 1998 and the likes. It is all nice that drivers can push to the limits like you all wish, but it gets boring pretty quickly - after a few laps - if there are lightyears between cars, no competition and nothing to fight for. Or overtaking is so difficult that you still end up with a train of "cruise" even though drivers allegedly "push the limits". This year we got more overtaking at Monaco than we usually have done.

[kfzmeister]

I think you should stop watching F1 since you seem to loathe it so much in its current state. I like it, a lot more now than when I used to dose off after watching a red and white Mclaren or an active Williams going around the circuit alone for an hour.

...or a red car in 2004, or a blue car in 2011. That's some boring isht.

[i_max2k2]

Skip to 1:06 for a great shot of the crash.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vXP_e8adVo

I did see the replays on TV, and just to be clear, I was in no way implying this was good for anyone.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I think you should stop watching F1 since you seem to loathe it so much in its current state. I like it, a lot more now than when I used to dose off after watching a red and white Mclaren or an active Williams going around the circuit alone for an hour.

There was nothing wrong with the racing in 2012. Teams needed a while to get a clue about the comedy tires, but once they did the racing was good. If I have to choose between the epic HAM/VET fight at Austin or the travesties we've seen at Barcelona and Monaco this year, my choice is easily made. They've tried to fix something that wasn't broken and wrecked it completely.

[neophyte]

Watch the clip in post #48, watch closely at Kimmi's racing line and the guys ahead of him. You can see he was already close to the middle of the road DEFENDING his position. As they get closer to the turn, you will see him quickly move to his left, clear sign he knew Perez was behind him and he saw the passing attempt coming. Was Perez over-agressive? I believe he was. Was he at fault? that can be debated. Was Raikonen's race taken away from him? I believe not, because he made a CONSCIOUS move to close the door on Perez.
Great we enjoy the successful passing attempts but we gotta understand there will be ill adviced moves too. So, rather than chastise Perez, I'll be thankful for another ballsy, gutsy driver that maybe in time and more experience, will give us fans a lot to talk about.

[faster69]

:laugh: kimi could have backed off... he would have had to back off a lot since he was quite a lot ahead :laugh: ... the things one can read sometimes.

Look, Kimi got outdriven by a third year driver in inferior machinery. There's a good way to stop a guy from passing or attempting to pass you. Drive at the same speed he's driving. Kimi couldn't manage it and lap after lap Perez was attempting to pass.

Kimi's entitled to defend, just like Perez was entitled to attempt to pass the slower driver. However, squeezing cars into walls isn't a smart idea when your entire championship strategy is based on consistently getting strong points finishes since you don't have the outright pace of a Vettel.

[longisland]

Look, Kimi got outdriven by a third year driver in inferior machinery. There's a good way to stop a guy from passing or attempting to pass you. Drive at the same speed he's driving. Kimi couldn't manage it and lap after lap Perez was attempting to pass.

Kimi's entitled to defend, just like Perez was entitled to attempt to pass the slower driver. However, squeezing cars into walls isn't a smart idea when your entire championship strategy is based on consistently getting strong points finishes since you don't have the outright pace of a Vettel.

Both drivers paid the price for the run in so I don't think Kimi should be getting more flack as you have insinuated. I presumed you have the lap times before the incident to back your claim. I mentioned before, if you are hitting the rear wheel of the car ahead, you are country miles away.

Let's move further up the grid, the bulls were complaining that they were just cruising because there were two silver buses ahead of them. Based on your logic, Vettel should have no problem overtaking Rosberg especially he pulled out the fastest lap which was few seconds quicker than the average lap time. So how come we didn't see any overtaking attempt from Vettel? Bare in mind there were yellow flags and a red flag for Vettel to be right up on Rosberg's gearbox. Maybe Checo is a better driver because he was able to overtake 2 champions especially the Ferrari with a superior performance; or it's Vettel's inability to drive wheel to wheel even in a superior Red Bull. Sounds ridiculous but you know what my point is.

[henners88]

Look, Kimi got outdriven by a third year driver in inferior machinery. There's a good way to stop a guy from passing or attempting to pass you. Drive at the same speed he's driving. Kimi couldn't manage it and lap after lap Perez was attempting to pass.

Kimi's entitled to defend, just like Perez was entitled to attempt to pass the slower driver. However, squeezing cars into walls isn't a smart idea when your entire championship strategy is based on consistently getting strong points finishes since you don't have the outright pace of a Vettel.
Kimi wasn't out driven by Perez in the race I watched. I thoroughly enjoyed Sergio's enthusiasm and eagerness to race at Monaco but he was over optimistic on several occasions. The first incident with Kimi he carried far too much speed after the tunnel and forced Kimi into taking evasive action where they both went across the chicane. Had Kimi not done this they would have both collided and Perez most likely would have been carrying a penalty anyway. The second incident where they actually hit each other was more at the fault of Perez simply because he arrived by the side of Kimi far too late to make the move stick. Kimi turned into the corner as he's entitled to do and Perez hit his rear wheel and connected with the wall. That is hardly what I call being out driven, its more like a drivers eagerness getting the better of him.

Nobody gave Hamilton any slack or credited him for being faster and trying to overtake when he was banged wheel in Monaco a couple of years ago. Had Perez said a stupid comment after the race I doubt we'd even be analysing his actual driving at this point. Monaco is difficult to overtake on at the best of times, but its about picking the right time. Vettel and Webber struggled to even try to get past Rosberg who was apparently slower yet he won the race and two very experienced drivers got to the finish unlike our friend Sergio.

As I said before I hope Sergio carries this enthusiasm into the next races because I enjoy the racing spirit, its just Monaco doesn't always reward a driver who is too keen to push his luck.

[faster69]

Both drivers paid the price for the run in so I don't think Kimi should be getting more flack as you have insinuated. I presumed you have the lap times before the incident to back your claim. I mentioned before, if you are hitting the rear wheel of the car ahead, you are country miles away.

I don't need lap times. My evidence is Perez swarming over the back of Kimi lap after lap. If you can swarm over the back of the car in front then it means you can drive faster than the guy in front. Make sense? :arrows:


Let's move further up the grid, the bulls were complaining that they were just cruising because there were two silver buses ahead of them. Based on your logic, Vettel should have no problem overtaking Rosberg especially he pulled out the fastest lap which was few seconds quicker than the average lap time. So how come we didn't see any overtaking attempt from Vettel? Bare in mind there were yellow flags and a red flag for Vettel to be right up on Rosberg's gearbox. Maybe Checo is a better driver because he was able to overtake 2 champions especially the Ferrari with a superior performance; or it's Vettel's inability to drive wheel to wheel even in a superior Red Bull. Sounds ridiculous but you know what my point is.

Rosberg was sublime there was no way Vettel was going to catch him (though Mercedes were the best car). At the restart after the red flag he built a lead really quickly. Plus there was no way Vettel was going to take a risk trying to pass Rosberg when he was in 2nd and his rivals for the championship were languishing in 5th and 6th getting out driven by McLarens and Force Indias LOL.

Before the Kimi pass, Kimi was behind Hamilton by 0.8 second and Perez behind by 0.5 second. But that's from about half a lap before the attempted pass. Perez was probably about 0.1/0.2 second behind by the time he's coming out of the tunnel. Just take a look at the replay visually you'll see how close Perez is leading up to it. All could have been avoided if Kimi was able to lap faster in his superior machinery.

[faster69]

Kimi wasn't out driven by Perez in the race I watched.

Of course he was. He was unable to keep a third year driver in a far inferior car behind him on a track that rewards driver skill like no other. That's the definition of being outdriven.

If Kimi was able to lap as quickly as Perez then Perez would never have had an opportunity to pass.

It's quite simple. I didn't see anyone trying to pass Perez or Sutil. I saw Kimi, Alonso and Button all get passed. That's because Perez and Sutil out drove all three of those world champions.

[SGWilko]

Of course he was. He was unable to keep a third year driver in a far inferior car behind him on a track that rewards driver skill like no other. That's the definition of being outdriven.

If Kimi was able to lap as quickly as Perez then Perez would never have had an opportunity to pass.

It's quite simple. I didn't see anyone trying to pass Perez or Sutil. I saw Kimi, Alonso and Button all get passed. That's because Perez and Sutil out drove all three of those world champions.

It's entirely possible - given everyone was driving to a delta - that the more level headed and experienced in the field took the view that to drive more defencively in the race was to risk a DNF (look at Massa and Hamilton 2011 at the hairpin). Rather take the points in an unusual race than get nothing.

Perez overheated his brakes which lead to his eventual DNF - that's not driving with your head, more hot headed.

[henners88]

Of course he was. He was unable to keep a third year driver in a far inferior car behind him on a track that rewards driver skill like no other. That's the definition of being outdriven.

If Kimi was able to lap as quickly as Perez then Perez would never have had an opportunity to pass.

It's quite simple. I didn't see anyone trying to pass Perez or Sutil. I saw Kimi, Alonso and Button all get passed. That's because Perez and Sutil out drove all three of those world champions.
You haven't convinced me lol. It just sounds to me like you are simply struggling to grasp the concept of how Kimi managed his race and how Perez drove so well he didn't manage the race distance and nearly took himself out twice before for good measure. I think we'll agree to disagree on this one lol. ;)

[jas123f1]

Apart from the fact Perez passed Button with a agreesive but fair move. Caught Alonso sleeping and then was squeezed in a breaking zone by Kimi which is not allowed.

Apart from those things that he did well or wasn't at fault for I agree he was terrible
One thing is sure .. If every one was driving like Perez did (in Monaco) .. there wouldn't be any cars in the end of the race.. There is the reason why Alonso didn't overtake the cars in front of him ... NOT that he wouldn't be a good driver .. to over take like Perez didn't be a very wise move.. and the result for him was as it was ..

[faster69]

One thing is sure .. If every one was driving like Perez did (in Monaco) .. there wouldn't be any cars in the end of the race.. There is the reason why Alonso didn't overtake the cars in front of him ... NOT that he wouldn't be a good driver .. to over take like Perez didn't be a very wise move.. and the result for him was as it was ..

LOL Alonso couldn't get close enough to the cars in front to overtake. He was getting overtaken left and right because drivers in worse cars were driving faster than him.

Alonso couldn't even hold position he drove so poorly.

[faster69]

It's entirely possible - given everyone was driving to a delta - that the more level headed and experienced in the field took the view that to drive more defencively in the race was to risk a DNF (look at Massa and Hamilton 2011 at the hairpin). Rather take the points in an unusual race than get nothing.

Perez overheated his brakes which lead to his eventual DNF - that's not driving with your head, more hot headed.

Kimi was losing time to the car in front of him when Perez tried the over take.

I understand a driver wanting to just retain their position on a track where overtaking is very very hard because they have a championship at stake (what Vettel did). But to do that you have to drive quicker than the car behind you.

Kimi and Alonso couldn't. It should be easy enough for guys in significantly better cars to keep a McLaren and Force India behind them, but they couldn't do it. That's why I don't rate them like I rate a Vettel.

[faster69]

You haven't convinced me lol. It just sounds to me like you are simply struggling to grasp the concept of how Kimi managed his race and how Perez drove so well he didn't manage the race distance and nearly took himself out twice before for good measure. I think we'll agree to disagree on this one lol. ;)


Managing his race? I think he might need to rethink his strategy. Lapping slower than the guy behind you (who is also in a worse car) and giving him opportunities to pass you is a horrible strategy. What he should have done was lap at the same speed or slightly faster than the guy behind him, therefore not giving him the opportunity to attempt a pass. An even better strategy is to drive quicker than the guy in front of you because it gives you the opportunity to pass the car in front and improve your position. It seems Kimi picked the worst strategy of them all :arrows:

[henners88]

Well Monaco has gone now, lets see where they are in the next race and if Perez is suddenly better than two guys who have won 3 world championships between them. It'll be a joy to watch no doubt.

[faster69]

It won't necessarily work like that because a superior driver can make up the disadvantage of an inferior car in a place like Monaco much more easily than somewhere like Barcelona.

Perez is in inferior machinery so it's a big ask to see him ahead of the superior Ferrari (best car in the field so far this season) and Lotus (second best). A better barometer is using former world champion Jenson Button -- Perez's teammate.

Perez and Sutil shouldn't have been able to get close to Kimi or Alonso let alone be quick enough to attempt to pass.

[henners88]

It might also be that the McLaren was suited to Monaco in this years spec and Perez found his groove. The circuit has produced some unlikely winners over the years, but I still think its a bit of a push to suddenly declare Alonso and Kimi as being slow around a circuit where they've impressed so many times in the past. Perez of course could be a driver who handles Monaco very nicely and potentially a future winner.

[faster69]

There hasn't been an unlikely winner at Monaco since 1996.

Look, Button wasn't driving faster than Alonso or Kimi. Perez was.

Oh, maybe the Force India is a better car than the Ferrari and Lotus :arrows:

Monaco is a true drivers circuit, a true test. Good drivers always do well at Monaco.

By the way, saying it's "where they've impressed many times is a stretch. Kimi has one win and Alonso two at Monaco. Each time they did it they had the best car on the grid.

[steveaki13]

Monaco is a true drivers circuit, a true test. Good drivers always do well at Monaco.

By the way, saying it's "where they've impressed many times is a stretch. Kimi has one win and Alonso two at Monaco. Each time they did it they had the best car on the grid.

I thought it was a drivers circuit? Shouldnt matter as much that the car was good. ;)

[henners88]

I thought it was a drivers circuit? Shouldnt matter as much that the car was good. ;)
Plus we need to remember Vettel wasn't exactly pulling out all the stops to overtake an inferior Mercedes bus in the last race :p

[dj_bytedisaster]

Plus we need to remember Vettel wasn't exactly pulling out all the stops to overtake an inferior Mercedes bus in the last race :p

He was told after the first stop to give up on putting pressure on Raikkonen and hold station till the end. Vettels tyres were shot after the first stint, while Nico's were still at 50%. That's when RB gave up. That's why Vettel was so po'ed at the end, when his team gave him a ticking off for driving the fastest lap. RB wanted to avoid racing at all cost and he didn't like it-

[henners88]

He was told after the first stop to give up on putting pressure on Raikkonen and hold station till the end. Vettels tyres were shot after the first stint, while Nico's were still at 50%. That's when RB gave up. That's why Vettel was so po'ed at the end, when his team gave him a ticking off for driving the fastest lap. RB wanted to avoid racing at all cost and he didn't like it-
I know I watched the race. Sarcasm was the tone used.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Sorry.

My sarcastometer is broken, I overloaded it last week :p

[airshifter]

He was told after the first stop to give up on putting pressure on Raikkonen and hold station till the end. Vettels tyres were shot after the first stint, while Nico's were still at 50%. That's when RB gave up. That's why Vettel was so po'ed at the end, when his team gave him a ticking off for driving the fastest lap. RB wanted to avoid racing at all cost and he didn't like it-


Excellent point. I mean really, who on these forums would think for a second that Sebastian would race if the team told him not to? (Multi 2-1 Seb)


:)

[dj_bytedisaster]

Excellent point. I mean really, who on these forums would think for a second that Sebastian would race if the team told him not to? (Multi 2-1 Seb)


:)

Well, he always saves his disobedience for the closing moments of the race. He also followed team orders at Malaysia until the third stop only then he rode roughshod over them.

[musyarofah]

Sergio Perez, no doubt.