2013 Monaco Grand Prix Thread

[faster69]

Perez did nothing wrong. Gap was there, he was close enough, Kimi deviated off the racing line at the last moment. Racing accident and silly of Kimi to risk his championship like that. If he doesn't want to be passed then maybe try staying closer to the car in front.

This is what F1 has come to in 2013. A bunch of grizzled veterans (Alonso, Kimi, Button) who don't wanna fight for position. They want everything decided by tyres, DRS or in the pits. Schumacher was still fighting tooth and nail for every position in his early 40's.

[denkimi]

Perez did nothing wrong. Gap was there, he was close enough, Kimi deviated off the racing line at the last moment. Racing accident and silly of Kimi to risk his championship like that. If he doesn't want to be passed then maybe try staying closer to the car in front.

look again. the front wheel of perez was at the same height as the rear wheel of raikkonen. there was no way he was going to get past, exept if he braked way too late and pushed raikkonen off track as he did earlier with button, alonso and raikkonen.

this was a big fault of perez, a fault where he in my opinion should have gotten a penaly for.

it was not the first time he did a dangerous and stupid manouvre.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS8XQUJ9cVo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRXGCh9pew4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqkbD9YGuJg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBBcwK08Cew



This is what F1 has come to in 2013. A bunch of grizzled veterans (Alonso, Kimi, Button) who don't wanna fight for position. They want everything decided by tyres, DRS or in the pits. Schumacher was still fighting tooth and nail for every position in his early 40's.
those grizzled veterans are smart enough to know when they have to settle down and accept the points they can get, instead of taking enormous risks for almost no points. kamikazes get nowhere in f1.

[ioan]

Bravo Nico!! Finally managed to hold on to one your poles in the race! Maybe it would've been worth infecting people after all...

Say thanks to the Safety car for holding up Vettel, Webber and Raikkonen for quite a while instead of waving them by straight away as it should be done. The win has handed to Mercedes and Rosberg by that SC.

[faster69]

Perez making mistakes in past races has no bearing on the legitimacy of his passing attempts in this race.

The Alonso one was just a nice clean pass in an inferior car.

Perez's front wheel only hit Kimi's rear wheel because Kimi drifted over off the racing line and squeezed Perez into the wall. Kimi knew where Perez was otherwise he wouldn't have drifted over.

Kimi had a lot more to lose since he's competing for the championship. He should have yielded to the faster driver instead of putting his car at great risk. What Perez did wasn't an enormous risk. No more of a risk than what Kimi was doing in the final two laps. Just racing.

[MJW]

What did EJ say about Lewis Hamiliton?

[steveaki13]

I think I have a new hate word - pace management (!!!). How ****ing ridiculous is that?? In other words we're seeing a delta-time parade again :rolleyes:

I have only just watched the race delayed but F1 is becoming a joke. IT IS JUST NOT RACING ANYMORE.


The racing is a bit farcical at the moment.

F1 is getting to the stage I am questioning whether the sport I love has moved away from what I want to watch.


wake me up when something happens, this race bro sucks :angryfire

Yup. For me its not about Monaco either. You can have racing hard with no overtaking, but today we saw 30 laps of simply not trying which is much worse.

[wedge]

Taking Monaco out of F1 is like taking the woman out of Sex. Can still be fun, but it ain't the same...

No, its not nice when a prick shafts you from behind and blows their wad too quickly like Checo and Grosjean.

[steveaki13]

After lurking here for a while this race has forced me out of hiding...

Since DRS, Monaco races had overtaking for the first time in living memory... But this seems to be a farce! I'm following on espnf1's text commentary. I could go down to the pub (it's 2 blocks away) but I've got a respiratory infection, and eh this race sounds dreadfully boring...

Welcome.

I do wish people would stop saying you cant pass at Monaco.

You can. Its alot harder and there isnt as much of it, but with quality, bravery and a brain you can pass as we saw today from Sutil, Perez and Kimi. The problems are with F1s style of racing now.


I think it's time Monaco and F1 have a bit of a rethink.

They need to see if they can tweak the track a bit - a couple of easy ones would be removing the bump before Mirabeau to allow people to race side by side and maybe doing something with the last corner to help people get on the power earlier. I know this would cost a few quid in reprofiling the roads and whatever but Monaco is hardly poverty stricken. Besides, Bernie and friends wouldn't lose Monaco for anything so they could always stump up the cost.

Alternatively why not turn it into a non-championship race? The drivers and teams would get the prestige and glamour that comes from winning in Monaco (maybe add in a big cash prize or something) but perhaps we'd see drivers a bit more willing to take a chance rather than sitting back and settling for second.

Sadly though the racing in Monaco nowadays seems to be a bit of a noisy distraction from all the meet and greets that seem to go on all weekend so I won't hold my breath.

Monaco can be tough, but its still a good race to have.

F1 needs different challenges from tracks and Monaco is one for concentration, precision and skill.

The problems F1 face is the now costant obsession with protection. Protecting Engines, Gear Box and Tyres. All lead to safer racing. If you have a Engine that only has to do one race then you can max it out, but now it still has 4 races to do.

I used to agree with cost cutting, but I am becoming convinced teams need to have freedom to use as many tyres as needed, engines every race and stop this naturally conservative mind set.

Then there is the other main issue, F1 needs to fix the real issue of aero and cut aero by 60-75 % and not use unfair makeshift ideas like DRS

If F1 addressed these issues F1 would improve as a sport as opposed to a "Show.


No rethink needed. It's the one race in the calendar where drivers actually have to work for an overtake instead of just pushing a button to cruise past. The racing was rotten because people were dawdling about to make the sorry excuses for tires last. Taking Monaco out of F1 is like taking the woman out of Sex. Can still be fun, but it ain't the same...


Exactly
Its F1 that needs changing, not Monaco

[Ranger]

Massa reverts to old form :down:


Why don't you wait and find out the cause before blaming someone who just slammed into a wall at 250km/h?

It was very strange.


massa is known for strange incidents
I think it is driver error

Monaco GP: Ferrari puts Felipe Massa's crash down to car problem - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107707)


Monaco GP: Ferrari puts Felipe Massa's crash down to car problem

Felipe Massa's violent crash in the Monaco Grand Prix was caused by a technical problem on his Ferrari.

The Brazilian was taken to hospital for precautionary checks, having suffered neck pain after slamming into the saine Devote barriers on lap 29 of the Monte Carlo race.

Although the crash was almost identical to Massa's accident at the same corner in Saturday morning practice, which was put down to a driver error, Ferrari technical chief Pat Fry underlined that this time the car was to blame.

"Today's accident looked very similar to what happened in the third free practice session, but in fact the two incidents are very different," said Fry.

"Unlike yesterday, it seems that today's incident can be attributed to a problem on the left front corner of the car.

[ShiftingGears]

The Monaco Grand Prix Circuit is great. Driving around at six seconds a lap slower than what the car is capable of at any given time, not so much.

[henners88]

Just watched the race or should I say fast forwarded through much of it. It's rare we have a sunny day in the UK so I wasn't going to spend it in front of the tv in any case. Apart from it being much like a procession, I enjoyed the fighting spirit from Perez, Vettel, Hamilton, and sutil. Brightened up another dull race. Shocked to see Felipe have an identical accident, I can't say its something a driver of his calibre would do twice, must be car trouble IMO.

[jas123f1]

Perez did nothing wrong. Gap was there, he was close enough, Kimi deviated off the racing line at the last moment. Racing accident and silly of Kimi to risk his championship like that. If he doesn't want to be passed then maybe try staying closer to the car in front.

This is what F1 has come to in 2013. A bunch of grizzled veterans (Alonso, Kimi, Button) who don't wanna fight for position. They want everything decided by tyres, DRS or in the pits. Schumacher was still fighting tooth and nail for every position in his early 40's.

The gap was there, only when the other drivers where diving outside of the track .. in my opinion Perez did several big mistakes and I must say that I'm pleased that he could not finish the race .. Some young drivers should definitly learn to see what's possible and what is not ..

[steveaki13]

The Monaco Grand Prix Circuit is great. Driving around at six seconds a lap slower than what the car is capable of at any given time, not so much.

This.

[steveaki13]

Some people seem to enjoy drivers following delta times rather than risk an overtake???


Regardless that I personally believe that Kimi is more at fault for his collision with Perez as he moved in a braking zone, which is not allowed. Coupled with not leaving him a cars width into the corner.


Anyway as I was saying. F1 isnt a non contact sport people. As soon as there is any contact people are moaning. Jeeeez.

Perez on Button at the hairpin is a perfect example. Went up the inside while giving Jenson a nudge and getting through. That is a brilliant move. But people have turned soft and now say "He made contact what a dangerous driver"

This is another example of F1 and some of its fans turning soft. Dangerous moving in braking zones or weaving or running into someone is dangerous contact.

Bumping wheels is part of Racing.


Some fans here couldnt have watched F1 in the past. Look back at Andrea De Cesaris and he would be banned for life.

[The Black Knight]

This was the worst Monaco GP I remember seeing in the last 20 years. Safety cars were the only thing that made it interesting. Most of that is down to Pirelli and the Sunday cruise each car was out for at the start of the race.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Look back at Andrea De Cesaris and he would be banned for life.

As he should have been. That man was utterly dangerous. Senna vs. Mansell is a better example. Two world class drivers giving it to each other something fierce, but in the end both finished.

[jens]

Regarding Massa I also remember India 2011, when he crashed in both practice and in the race after hitting the kerb. A similar strange double-accident this time. Even if you could say Felipe made mistakes, he had some strange settings /setup, which contributed to the crash. Normally a driver wouldn't crash out like that.


As he should have been. That man was utterly dangerous. Senna vs. Mansell is a better example. Two world class drivers giving it to each other something fierce, but in the end both finished.

Umm, they (or at least one of them) didn't finish after colliding in Belgium 1987, Portugal 1989, Canada 1992, Australia 1992... There must have been more that I have forgotten. :p :

So all of them, even the greats, have crashed and misjudged situations.

Pérez was doing great until the Kimi accident. This is where he was overoptimistic though Kimi closed the door very late too.

[steveaki13]

Regarding Massa I also remember India 2011, when he crashed in both practice and in the race after hitting the kerb. A similar strange double-accident this time. Even if you could say Felipe made mistakes, he had some strange settings /setup, which contributed to the crash. Normally a driver wouldn't crash out like that.



Umm, they (or at least one of them) didn't finish after colliding in Belgium 1987, Portugal 1989, Canada 1992, Australia 1992... There must have been more that I have forgotten. :p :

So all of them, even the greats, have crashed and misjudged situations.

Pérez was doing great until the Kimi accident. This is where he was overoptimistic though Kimi closed the door very late too.

Spot on Jens.

F1 has always had contact and has always had misjudgements leading to crashes.

Maybe back then drivers squared up or accepted it more, I dont know, but today stewards and many fans seem to think contact is a penalty.

[TheFamousEccles]

Perez actually kept me in front of the tv, with his attempts at finishing as high up the order as possible from his starting position. Also known as "racing". Everyone else was just rolling around doing some advertising - including Kimi.

The tyres need to be reviewed when, as mentioned above many times, The Pinnacle of Motor Racing is lapping a good 4 to 6 seconds off of their potential.

[AndyL]

The tyres need to be reviewed when, as mentioned above many times, The Pinnacle of Motor Racing is lapping a good 4 to 6 seconds off of their potential.

Maybe they could solve this problem simply by providing more tyres. Say you went at full qualifying pace and lapped 4 seconds a lap quicker than the guys doing delta times to make a 1 or 2 stopper. Over a 60 lap race, that gains you enough time to make an additional 10 pit stops. So even if you exhausted the tyres after 5 laps, it could be a competitive strategy given enough tyres.

Not at Monaco, of course, but somewhere where track position is less critical and passing is possible. It would be pretty crazy to watch!

[jas123f1]

Perez actually kept me in front of the tv, with his attempts at finishing as high up the order as possible from his starting position. Also known as "racing". Everyone else was just rolling around doing some advertising - including Kimi.

The tyres need to be reviewed when, as mentioned above many times, The Pinnacle of Motor Racing is lapping a good 4 to 6 seconds off of their potential.

ok Perz kept you in front of the tv.. but he didn't finish the race ..

[Rallyper]

Can anyone tell what happened to Kimi after restart? He had a steady 5th when I had to leave the live-TV, and the summari/high light TV from Viasat didn´t say anything about him, just that he finally got 10th. :confused: :confused:

[Firstgear]

Can anyone tell what happened to Kimi after restart? He had a steady 5th when I had to leave the live-TV, and the summari/high light TV from Viasat didn´t say anything about him, just that he finally got 10th. :confused: :confused:Perez tried to make a pass on him - there was contact. Kimi had to go to the pits for repairs putting him near last (about 16th I think), Perez eventually retired. So Kimi did quite well in the end to salvage a point.

[dj_bytedisaster]

'Quite well' must be the understatement of the century. He was simply epic in those few laps :D

[Firstgear]

I was just trying to throw out the basics, without hyping or crapping on either driver. In the end, Kimi was on new tyres thanks to his pit stop (so didn't really need to be in tyre-conservation mode that late in the race) passing slower cars on older tyres. Still - great to see a bit of aggression & passing in Monaco - I like Kimi's style. Most of the rest of the race was like those slow bicycle races in a velodrome - but without the strategy or sprint at the end. I was really hoping Vettel would try to put some pressure on Rosberg at the end, and disappointed when it didn't happen. He proved he could turn the wick way up with that one fast lap. I guess he just doesn't consider Rosberg a threat for the championship, so didn't want to take any chances seeing as he was going to widen the gap to Kimi & Alonso, playing it safe.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I was really hoping Vettel would try to put some pressure on Rosberg at the end, and disappointed when it didn't happen. He proved he could turn the wick way up with that one fast lap. I guess he just doesn't consider Rosberg a threat for the championship, so didn't want to take any chances seeing as he was going to widen the gap to Kimi & Alonso, playing it safe.

Red Bull had massively higher tire wear than Merc at this race. After the first stint Vettel was told that his tires were marginal (read: He's dead, Jim), while according to Mercs pit radio Nico's tires still had some life left in them. there was at one time a rather frustrated RB radio message to Vettel, saying 'Nico's tires weren't marginal at all'. I suppose that this was the moment, when RB knew 2nd was the best they could hope for.

[Firstgear]

Yeah, I realize he did the smart thing, as chances of passing would've been slim anyway. I was just hoping to see the attack - some excitement. I'm sure he was getting all kinds of messages over the radio telling him to stay put, just bring it home..... but I also know he doesn't always listen (like with that fast lap) so I was hoping he'd go for it.

[Rallyper]

Thanks for the answer!

[SGWilko]

Sutil managed to overtake without piling into people.

It requires the person being overtaken to not turn in........

[airshifter]

Thanks for the answer!

You might want to try Youtube... I'm sure video of that accident is floating around somewhere. I know there was some video of Kimis last laps to get back to 10th place.

[zako85]

I could care less if they was the best or worst race in the last 20 years. I enjoyed it. The biggest winner seems to be Vettel who added extra cushion to his points lead over Alonso and Raikkonen.

i wish i could be there!