Boston Marathon Terrorist Attack

[Koz]

2 bombs. 2 dead, 23 injured.

2 more devices found and are being diffused.

[race aficionado]

Cowards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Koz]

BBC showing some disturbing footage. Would suggest another channel.

[Koz]

Apparently within 1 mile of the finish line. Another one can be seen going off 200m away. On CNN.

[Spafranco]

Cowards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely.

[donKey jote]

Sheite :s

[Gregor-y]

Footage is pretty graphic from what I hear and I'm glad to be at work.

[Koz]

Footage is pretty graphic from what I hear and I'm glad to be at work.

BBC is being very bad, IMO. Blood everywhere, dead and or injured. Quite nasty.

[Koz]

Third explosion, JFK Library.

[Roamy]

My heart goes out to the victims and families. Very difficult times in the world now

[Starter]

Third explosion, JFK Library.
Now saying a utility room fire and possibly unrelated.

[gloomyDAY]

Video 1:


http://www.boston.com/video/viral_page/?/services/player/bcpid1367773107001&bckey=AQ~~,AAAAAA6piHY~,DqRT40X OAr9OWST-YiEQyzUCo3g3L-Af&bctid=2303076923001

Video 2:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jMYObtjToU&feature=youtu.be

[BleAivano]

live news: BBC News - LIVE: Boston Marathon explosions (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-22160978)

live blogs/twitters:

Live blog: Explosions in Copley Square (http://live.boston.com/Event/Live_blog_Explosion_in_Copley_Square)
Live Updates on Explosions at the Boston Marathon - NYTimes.com (http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/15/live-updates-explosion-at-boston-marathon/)
Officials: Boston Marathon bombs kill 2, hurt dozens (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/15/explosions-near-finish-of-boston-marathon/?hpt=hp_t1)
https://twitter.com/BostonGlobe
https://twitter.com/bostonherald
https://twitter.com/Boston_Police
https://twitter.com/cnnbrk

[gloomyDAY]

Photos (GRAPHIC):

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/04/Photo%20explosion.jpg

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/04/Boston%20Photo.jpg

http://rack.2.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDEzLzA0LzE1LzBiL2Jvc3Rvbm1hcmF0LjMxMmMwLmpwZw pwCXRodW1iCTk1MHg1MzQjCmUJanBn/7ae327e9/809/boston-marathon-explosion.jpg

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2013/04/boston1.jpg

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/bos041513/s_b08_53227479.jpg

[donKey jote]

not good gloomy... family forum

[gloomyDAY]

Location: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=boston+newbury&hl=en&ll=42.349719,-71.078753&spn=0.006367,0.009645&sll=39.089922,-95.128914&sspn=1.703254,2.469177&hnear=Newbury+St&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=42.349689,-71.078867&panoid=5YI5tP2jMq3wc6kdEr_oVQ&cbp=12,19.54,,0,14.92


not good gloomy... family forumJust trying to show the extent of the damage. I don't like sugar coating anything.

[schmenke]

I have a colleague currently in Boston whose wife was running the marathon. Just heard that they are both o.k.


I agree with Donks, gloomy, those pictures shouldn't have been posted.

[pino]

Location: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=boston+newbury&hl=en&ll=42.349719,-71.078753&spn=0.006367,0.009645&sll=39.089922,-95.128914&sspn=1.703254,2.469177&hnear=Newbury+St&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=42.349689,-71.078867&panoid=5YI5tP2jMq3wc6kdEr_oVQ&cbp=12,19.54,,0,14.92

Just trying to show the extent of the damage. I don't like sugar coating anything.

As Donkey said, this is a Family forum and disturbing photos/videos are not allowed, so please do not post them.

[Rollo]

BBC News - Boston Marathon hit by twin explosions (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22160691)
Mr Obama stopped short of calling the incident an act of terrorism.

Why? Why not call a spade a spade? That's precisely what this is - a criminal act intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public. This is a hideous and disgusting thing.

[Koz]

BBC News - Boston Marathon hit by twin explosions (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22160691)
Mr Obama stopped short of calling the incident an act of terrorism.

Why? Why not call a spade a spade? That's precisely what this is - a criminal act intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public. This is a hideous and disgusting thing.

I assume because as soon as he says "terrorism" it will automatically be taken to mean Islamic. And might cause retaliation attacks against that minority.

And perhaps they don't want the word "terrorism" to be associated with domestic acts of terrorism, because it may lose value for rhetorical purpose?
Just like they use the word "torture" when the bad guys do it, but when we do it it's called "enhanced interrogation".

I don't believe "terrorism" will be used if this was domestic issue, rather than say Al Qaeda or related.

[FormerFF]

BBC News - Boston Marathon hit by twin explosions (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22160691)
Mr Obama stopped short of calling the incident an act of terrorism.

Why? Why not call a spade a spade? That's precisely what this is - a criminal act intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public. This is a hideous and disgusting thing.

Because no one knows who did this or why.

[BleAivano]

The two deaths in Boston are tragic, in the same time over 30 people were killed in several bombings in Iraq:

BBC News - Iraq deadly bombings hit Nasariyah, Kirkuk and Baghdad (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22149863)

[FormerFF]

I have a colleague currently in Boston whose wife was running the marathon. Just heard that they are both o.k.


I agree with Donks, gloomy, those pictures shouldn't have been posted.

I understand that this is a family oriented forum, so this is probably not the place, but I've come to the conclusion that pictures of the aftermath of violence should be part of news coverage. When people see what violence looks like, maybe then they'll be more willing to act to prevent it.

[Ranger]

Awful.

[henners88]

There really are some horrible people in this world. What a mindless cowardly act.

[pino]

I understand that this is a family oriented forum, so this is probably not the place, but I've come to the conclusion that pictures of the aftermath of violence should be part of news coverage. When people see what violence looks like, maybe then they'll be more willing to act to prevent it.

You're free to post a link to those pics, so people can chose wether they want to watch them or not, when posted directly here...you don't have that option.

[Knock-on]

My Partner is a runner and was in Brighton on Saturday for the Marathon. Trully dreadfull to think someone would commit this act. Marathons are a great celebration and family orientated. I genuinly feel quite tearfull at the thought of it. :(

[Tazio]

I have a friend that ran in the marathon who I'm yet to hear from. I did input him and his wife’s name into:
Google Person Finder: Boston Marathon Explosions (http://google.org/personfinder/2013-boston-explosions/query?role=seek)
Neither was identified.

[Starter]

My Partner is a runner and was in Brighton on Saturday for the Marathon. Trully dreadfull to think someone would commit this act. Marathons are a great celebration and family orientated. I genuinly feel quite tearfull at the thought of it. :(
That is exactly the reaction those who commit such acts are looking for. The purpose is to destabilize society and create fear.

[Garry Walker]

Sickening.

[Spafranco]

I understand that this is a family oriented forum, so this is probably not the place, but I've come to the conclusion that pictures of the aftermath of violence should be part of news coverage. When people see what violence looks like, maybe then they'll be more willing to act to prevent it.
You are so right. The fact that we never saw the coffins of the young men and women coming back from Iraq inoculated us to the horrors of war.
Before anyone thinks I'm being political on this would be incorrect. I believe a government should allow it's citizens to view what is happening to our military and civilians.
There is a book by Tom Clancy and some other guy I believe is titled Politika. Almost the exact scenario occurs in the book except it was NY and New Years.
Pray for all those poor people hurt/injured yesterday.

[D-Type]

You are so right. The fact that we never saw the coffins of the young men and women coming back from Iraq inoculated us to the horrors of war.
Before anyone thinks I'm being political on this would be incorrect. I believe a government should allow it's citizens to view what is happening to our military and civilians.
There is a book by Tom Clancy and some other guy I believe is titled Politika. Almost the exact scenario occurs in the book except it was NY and New Years.
Pray for all those poor people hurt/injured yesterday.
You are missing the point. Another moderator took action to remove pictures which were reproduced on this forum, as it is considered to be a "family orientated forum'. This has nothing to do with what the News media are showing.

[BDunnell]

You are missing the point. Another moderator took action to remove pictures which were reproduced on this forum, as it is considered to be a "family orientated forum'. This has nothing to do with what the News media are showing.

I agree. I have no desire to see such pictures, and have no wish to be, in effect, forced to.

[Koz]

There is a book by Tom Clancy and some other guy I believe is titled Politika. Almost the exact scenario occurs in the book except it was NY and New Years.
Pray for all those poor people hurt/injured yesterday.

There are claims that this bombing was inspired by a movie called "Four Lions".

[Koz]

I understand that this is a family oriented forum, so this is probably not the place, but I've come to the conclusion that pictures of the aftermath of violence should be part of news coverage. When people see what violence looks like, maybe then they'll be more willing to act to prevent it.

Showing carnage will make most people we aren't psychopaths turn away. I don't want to look at the news and see blood and limbs and people suffering.
Forcing such things on the news would be quite traumatic for many, many people. My girlfriend was crying and shaking for half a day after she saw the Chinese child being crushed several times on the news.

Being informed and being shocked are two different things, and no one should be forced to view something of this nature.

Do you honestly believe that a terrorist witnessing this carnage on TV would be put off?
Or how would your average guy be able to prevent something like this?

[Ranger]

The two deaths in Boston are tragic, in the same time over 30 people were killed in several bombings in Iraq:

BBC News - Iraq deadly bombings hit Nasariyah, Kirkuk and Baghdad (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22149863)

Sad that some news agencies did not report this at all.

[BleAivano]

supposedly the man in this picture have been claimed to be possible suspect, handing over a backpack over the fence.

http://i.imgur.com/gwh5u65h.jpg

The image does not contain any blood or gore or anything.

Also there is claims by the CNN that a suspect have been arrested.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/17/us/boston-blasts/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


An arrest has been made in the Boston bombings investigation based on two videos
showing images of the suspect, a federal law enforcement source told CNN's Fran Townsend.

[anthonyvop]

Also there is claims by the CNN that a suspect have been arrested.

Confusion over arrest reports in Boston bombing - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/17/us/boston-blasts/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)


CNN has been proven once again to be a sick joke!!!

[Spafranco]

You are missing the point. Another moderator took action to remove pictures which were reproduced on this forum, as it is considered to be a "family orientated forum'. This has nothing to do with what the News media are showing.

What point have I missed?

[BDunnell]

What point have I missed?

I hope D-Type doesn't mind be saying that it's quite obvious. By posting them directly onto this site, the viewing of them was unavoidable by anyone who happened to view the page on which they appeared. Rather different from merely posting a link, on which one can choose to click. The moderator who removed the pictures was absolutely right to do so.

[Spafranco]

I hope D-Type doesn't mind be saying that it's quite obvious. By posting them directly onto this site, the viewing of them was unavoidable by anyone who happened to view the page on which they appeared. Rather different from merely posting a link, on which one can choose to click. The moderator who removed the pictures was absolutely right to do so.

My apologies, I should have kept my trap shut. I thought I was on page one and did not know there were images of people that were hurt. My fault and I take complete responsibility for being insensitive when I should have known better.

[BDunnell]

My apologies, I should have kept my trap shut. I thought I was on page one and did not know there were images of people that were hurt. My fault and I take complete responsibility for being insensitive when I should have known better.

I'm sure there's no need to apologise.

[Valve Bounce]

That is exactly the reaction those who commit such acts are looking for. The purpose is to destabilize society and create fear.
Maybe it is some maniac just doing his worst to gain notoriety, just like the guy who shot John Lennon. I hope that the person(s) responsible get caught, and jailed, never to be released.

[Starter]

Maybe it is some maniac just doing his worst to gain notoriety, just like the guy who shot John Lennon. I hope that the person(s) responsible get caught, and jailed, never to be released.
That's always a possibility too. Too many wackos running loose these days.

[markabilly]

Want to see images of people hurt and killed? These are the images you should look at and wonder why someone would hurt themthem.......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................... . :( http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/130416-krystle-campbell-508p.380;380;7;70;0.jpghttp://i.huffpost.com/gen/1089220/thumbs/o-MARTIN-RICHARD-DEAD-BOSTON-MARATHON-570.jpg?15http://images.enstarz.com/data/images/full/10912/lu-lingzi.jpg?w=565http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=HA.209369830115&pid=1.7&w=134&h=146&c=7&rs=1 The little girl (Richard martin's sister)lost her entire leg, and mother still in hospital with serious head injuries

[Spafranco]

Want to see images of people hurt and killed? These are the images you should look at and wonder why someone would hurt themthem.......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................... . :( http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/130416-krystle-campbell-508p.380;380;7;70;0.jpghttp://i.huffpost.com/gen/1089220/thumbs/o-MARTIN-RICHARD-DEAD-BOSTON-MARATHON-570.jpg?15http://images.enstarz.com/data/images/full/10912/lu-lingzi.jpg?w=565http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=HA.209369830115&pid=1.7&w=134&h=146&c=7&rs=1 The little girl (Richard martin's sister)lost her entire leg, and mother still in hospital with serious head injuries

Hard to keep composure when you see that.

[BleAivano]

FBI just said at the press conference that they will release a video at FBI (http://www.fbi.gov) it will most likely be a video of the suspects.

The press conference can be watched here: CBS News, Ustream.TV: CBS News behind the scenes live news coverage. Breaking News (http://www.ustream.tv/cbsnews) it will be live in just a few minutes.

PC already finished. pics and videos of suspects: http://www.fbi.gov/news/updates-on-investigation-into-multiple-explosions-in-boston/updates-on-investigation-into-multiple-explosions-in-boston

[Spafranco]

Those guys in the photo's look to be about twenty or 21. Can't determine if they look like Caucasians or Mid Eastern.

[BleAivano]

A better pic of suspect #2: http://i.imgur.com/NFPlOCI.jpg
you'll find him just to the right of the red signalling box with the red lamp.

[Spafranco]

A better pic of suspect #2: http://i.imgur.com/NFPlOCI.jpg
you'll find him just to the right of the red signalling box with the red lamp.

Yes, that is a great shot. Thanks for sharing BleAivano. I'm still a little scared to say whether he is white or mid eastern. But, I do have a feeling.-+

[airshifter]

I don't care what race either is. They should be called by whatever nationality they represent, and that alone. I'm sure no country would accept these scumbags as a representation of anything fair these days, and not representative of any country as a whole.

It's sad when there is any needless loss of human life, and this is no exception. Those killed and injured in the bombings were no more or less significant IMO than any other human. This is not to say I don't care, as I do. But I also care that every child beaten to death, senseless drunk driving death, gun death, bullying death, etc is taken seriously and the people responsible are held accountable for their actions.

Much like Bin Laden, these cowards can now live in complete fear and paranoia, scurrying in dark corners like the rats they are. Such people are the primary reason I support the death penalty. They have shown no respect for human life and as such I would have no remorse in watching their lives end. I would also have no remorse if they take all the political nutters that enjoy such events so they can point fingers and add them to the death cue. They seem to be fine promoting hate, and I think it's about time we return the favor.

The real sadness in all of this is that there are humans so ill informed or educated that they somehow try to justify such actions as legitimate causes. Beyond lack of understanding for human life, they sorely underestimate the resolve of the people in this great country. At a very small cost in human life, they have managed to pull together most of the US citizens as one for a brief but likely fleeing moment. People quite being men or women, white or black, atheist, Christian or Muslim and they all for that time become Americans. One cowardly act is all it takes to show immediate response to help people and show respect for every human involved. Within hours blood banks had to turn people away, people offered food, clothing and shelter to those in need, and people paused to reflect on the basic freedoms and the cost we pay for them.

We have been tested before by much greater attacks. If not for Pearl Harbor much of the Pacific would likely now speak Japanese, and much of Europe would likely speak German. If not for Bin Laden and 9/11 terror attacks and the people behind them would likely still take place all over the globe. We know how things turn out when someone attacks on this soil, but it appears the terrorists can't remember how it works.

So, terrorist scumbags the world over, thank you. Your actions will do nothing other than pull together the people of this country, and identify those so self absorbed that they take this country for granted. Resolve is something the US is very good at when needed.

[donKey jote]

I'm still a little scared to say whether he is white or mid eastern.
I thought mid eastern was white too.
Personally I think he looks greek, hispanic or maybe even brazilian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes) :-s

Whatever he is, he's an absolute scumbag.

And must be a bit thick too... wearing such a conspicuous white cap for the cameras.

[Koz]

Those guys in the photo's look to be about twenty or 21. Can't determine if they look like Caucasians or Mid Eastern.

Noses are very prominent on both. Very likely Middle Eastern.

[Koz]

There has been shoot out.
Suspect #1 has been killed.

Suspect #2 at large.

One police officer has also died. One injured.

[BleAivano]

nasty development, 1 dead cop, 1 dead suspect, another 1 or 2 cops injured and the suspect #2 on the loose.

Neither of the suspects are believed to be middle-eastern #2 is possible an American with Indian heritage but it is not yet confirmed.

[henners88]

Yeah shocking scenes. I think any doubt these were the guys involved have now been confirmed. Hopefully they will catch the second guy alive and he will be able to pay for his crimes. I feel for the family of the dead cop, totally unnecessary.

[BleAivano]

live stream of Boston PD police radio; Boston Police, Fire and EMS Scanner - Boston, MA - Listen Online (http://tunein.com/radio/Boston-Police-Fire-and-EMS-Scanner-s146109/)

Suspect #2 just spotted apparently, #1 had explosives attached to his chest.

reuters incident map of Boston: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=200082141349599835237.0004daaf434ba5147dce 8&msa=0&iwloc=A

[BleAivano]

thrre people have just been arrested. "all three occupants of the cab have been arrested". they also requested a bomb squad.

I think one of the arrested is the suspect. Still a bit unclear.

*edit two arrested the third was the cab driver.

[henners88]

Fingers crossed they have them. What a terrifying situation for a city that is one of the nicest in America.

[N4D13]

I'm not trying to criticize or anything - I'm just curious. What is the point of police applying a de facto martial law in Boston today and telling people not to leave their homes? Do you think this is a reasonable reaction? Of course, I hope they will apprehend those responsible, but you might argue that this is also helping to terrorize their own people.

[BleAivano]

Suspect identified. https://twitter.com/AP/status/325198361428893698
https://twitter.com/AP/status/325196873486962688




The Associated Press ‏@AP (https://twitter.com/AP) 7m (https://twitter.com/AP/status/325198361428893698)
BREAKING: AP: Surviving Boston bomb suspect identified as Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, 19, of Cambridge, Mass. -SS [/*:m:26qgwnmg]
The Associated Press ‏@AP (https://twitter.com/AP) 13m (https://twitter.com/AP/status/325196873486962688)

BREAKING: AP sources: Boston bomb suspects from Russia region near Chechnya, lived in US at least 1 year. -SS [/*:m:26qgwnmg]


#2 suspect was awarded a scholarship in 2011: http://www.boston.com/yourtown/news/cambridge/2011/05/cambridge_announces_2011_city.html



NBC News ‏@NBCNews (https://twitter.com/NBCNews) 11m (https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/325200859560546304) MORE: Boston suspects are brothers, aged 19 and 20, and legal permanent U.S. residents of Chechen origin, sources say

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/325200859560546304



The cab hijack arresting earlier prorbably did not have anything to do with the bombing suspect.
Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, seems to be hiding in a house and there's talk of a pipebomb that went off.

[BDunnell]

I'm not trying to criticize or anything - I'm just curious. What is the point of police applying a de facto martial law in Boston today and telling people not to leave their homes? Do you think this is a reasonable reaction? Of course, I hope they will apprehend those responsible, but you might argue that this is also helping to terrorize their own people.

I think these are, if reports are accurate, rather exceptional circumstances.

[BleAivano]

according to the police radio the suspect is believed to be wearing a suicide west.

[markabilly]

I'm not trying to criticize or anything - I'm just curious. What is the point of police applying a de facto martial law in Boston today and telling people not to leave their homes? Do you think this is a reasonable reaction? Of course, I hope they will apprehend those responsible, but you might argue that this is also helping to terrorize their own people.

Given how the bombing was carried out, given that a campus police officer responded to a disturbance call at MIT and was fatally shot multiple times before he could even get out of his car, the police car was stolen, & a convenience store was robbed a short time later, a SUV stolen, with its driver kidnapped, given the nature of the shoot-out that followed (see the videos), the throwing of what appearred to be some type of hand grenades during the shoot out, the charging of one suspect shooting at police while the other drives the SUV through the police barrier, given that the suspect number 1 had a crude bomb strapped to his chest that did not go off, .....and the other suspect is now running around on foot in a resdential area where he may have found an innocent family's house to hunker down in.....

"a reasonable reaction"??????

Sounds more than reasonable to me........ :dozey:



Anyway, the good news for me was a friend who ran in race, finally turned up. I had kidded him about the words of Armstrong, the first man to walk on the moon and fly the space shuttle when he was much older, about when asked about if he was running to stay in shape, responded by saying God only gave him so many heartbeats and no point in wasting any running around in a circle......

Turns out he had finished the race and was a couple of hundred yards past the finish line, when the bombs went off. His wife had been in the crowd in the general area of the bombs but after he ran past, she went away from the fence to go meet up with him. So while she was not in danger when it happenned, the cell phone towers were imediately turned off and it was some 45 minutes of fear before they found each other

[veeten]

Chechens... that puts an interesting twist on things. Either they're a 'cell', or it has something to do with situations between Chechnya and the Russians, especially where it has to do with Putin. Things have been pretty quiet from the US standpoint.

[henners88]

Interesting if they are Chechen. Why would American citizens be the target? Unless of course it's simply based on the religious war they believe is happening with America.

[Spafranco]

Interesting if they are Chechen. Why would American citizens be the target? Unless of course it's simply based on the religious war they believe is happening with America.
I think the latter part of your post is the key. The age difference between the two is an interesting dynamic. Younger brother indoctrinated by the older brother.
I wonder how the press is going to view the youngest. Is he going to be American since he came here as a child irrespective of his actual citizenship?

[airshifter]

A family members view, in part. Source is the link below the quote.

"The suspects' uncle told the local CBS News station (http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/04/19/bombing-suspects-uncle-says-hes-shocked/) that the pair had lived in the country since 2002. The uncle, when told that one of his nephews was killed, replied that he deserved it. “He deserved his. He absolutely deserved his,” Ruslan Tsarni said. “They do not deserve to live on this earth.”Tsarni said he learned his nephews were suspects by reading a Russian language news source. "Since these people do have association to me by blood, I say they're barbarians," he added.
In an emotional press conference later, Tsarni said his nephews had brought shame upon his family and called them "losers." He said they were not "able to settle themselves" and were "angry at everyone who was able to."
"Dzhokhar, If you're alive, turn yourself in and ask for forgiveness from the victims, the injured and those who left," he said. "He put a shame on our family. He put a shame on the entire Chechnyan ethnicity. Turn yourself in."



Boston Marathon bomber manhunt: One suspect dead, second on the run (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/boston-mit-shooting-explosion-suspect-watertown-064355149.html)

[donKey jote]

Noses are very prominent on both. Very likely Middle Eastern.

turns out they were Caucasians (from the North Caucasus), living in the US since they were 8 and 15 :crazy:

[DBell]

I'm not trying to criticize or anything - I'm just curious. What is the point of police applying a de facto martial law in Boston today and telling people not to leave their homes? Do you think this is a reasonable reaction? Of course, I hope they will apprehend those responsible, but you might argue that this is also helping to terrorize their own people.

I don't understand this line of thought. All the authorities are trying to do is keep innocent people safe. They have shut down public transportation and told people to stay home early this morning to cut off chances of escape and so people are not in the street in case a shoot out occurs. It's also easier for the police, and safer for the general population, for the authorities to conduct their manhunt without people walking on the streets and in their cars on the street. The order came out at 4 am this morning. If they didn't do it then, they would have been dealing with children going to school and people using cars and public transportation to get to work a short time later. If people were allowed to leave their homes and the remaining suspect decided to commandeer a school bus full of kids or get on a subway full of commuters with explosives and blow it up, then the whole country would've been asking why the authorities didn't act to keep people off the street when they knew a dangerous, armed suspect was in the loose, one who had already killed police officers and was believed to have committed the Boston Marathon bombing. On the contrary, I wouldn't feel terrorized, I would feel better knowing the police are trying to do everything they can to keep us out of harms way.

[Roamy]

Interesting if they are Chechen. Why would American citizens be the target? Unless of course it's simply based on the religious war they believe is happening with America.

henner wake up - they are Muslim in case you have missed the last zillion years - it is the muslims against the christians and now non believers like you are included.

[BDunnell]

henner wake up - they are Muslim in case you have missed the last zillion years - it is the muslims against the christians and now non believers like you are included.

Yawn.

[anthonyvop]

Interesting if they are Chechen. Why would American citizens be the target? Unless of course it's simply based on the religious war they believe is happening with America.


Duh. It is only the press who can't accept it.

[BleAivano]

It seems the police have someone in a boat surrounded, the boat is in a garden.

[Koz]

He has been captured.

[Rollo]

Chechens... that puts an interesting twist on things. Either they're a 'cell', or it has something to do with situations between Chechnya and the Russians, especially where it has to do with Putin. Things have been pretty quiet from the US standpoint.

Meanwhile... The Czech ambassador to the US had to issue a statement explaining his country is not Chechnya.

Statement of the Ambassador of the Czech Republic on the Boston terrorist attack | Embassy of the Czech Republic in Washington, D.C. (http://www.mzv.cz/washington/en/czech_u_s_relations/news/statement_of_the_ambassador_of_the_czech.html)
Statement of the Ambassador of the Czech Republic on the Boston terrorist attack
...
As more information on the origin of the alleged perpetrators is coming to light, I am concerned to note in the social media a most unfortunate misunderstanding in this respect. The Czech Republic and Chechnya are two very different entities - the Czech Republic is a Central European country; Chechnya is a part of the Russian Federation.
...
Petr Gandalovič
Ambassador of the Czech Republic

[Starter]

Meanwhile... The Czech ambassador to the US had to issue a statement explaining his country is not Chechnya.

Statement of the Ambassador of the Czech Republic on the Boston terrorist attack | Embassy of the Czech Republic in Washington, D.C. (http://www.mzv.cz/washington/en/czech_u_s_relations/news/statement_of_the_ambassador_of_the_czech.html)
Statement of the Ambassador of the Czech Republic on the Boston terrorist attack
...
As more information on the origin of the alleged perpetrators is coming to light, I am concerned to note in the social media a most unfortunate misunderstanding in this respect. The Czech Republic and Chechnya are two very different entities - the Czech Republic is a Central European country; Chechnya is a part of the Russian Federation.
...
Petr Gandalovič
Ambassador of the Czech Republic
Or, as the Aussies would say, it's Czech mate.

[Robinho]

Glad they've caught the guy and that he's seemingly alive, so maybe they can find out something of a motive and any network, but I found the police tweeting that justice had won rather distasteful, he has been arrested as a suspect and now justice can start, however obvious it is that these guys were the bombers there is a legal process to go through to serve justice. The guys out on the streets chanting "USA USA" looked massively inappropriate too, I can understand the relief people must be feeling, but celebrating on the streets while there are families who lost members in the bombing seem in pretty poor taste to me.

Sent from North Korea using the dark network

[keysersoze]

The guys out on the streets chanting "USA USA" looked massively inappropriate too, I can understand the relief people must be feeling, but celebrating on the streets while there are families who lost members in the bombing seem in pretty poor taste to me.

They are celebrating FOR the families who have been affected by these lowlifes--lowlifes, it seems, who were granted political asylum and welfare assistance by the big bad awful capitalist infidel bullies known around the world as the United States.

The media here has been playing up the Chechnya connection, with the knowledge that that country has suffered from debilitating religious conflicts, and that it is a place that has cultivated some anti-American sentiment because of the influence of radical Islam. I feel safe in saying that the jubilation is indeed national pride that these particular thugs were caught before they were able to escape and perhaps commit more crimes against defenseless citizens.

Keep in mind that the city has been on lockdown all day and people are anxious to get out and experience a sense of their newly-assured safety.

I do not see it as excessive in the least, particularly in light of the manner in which the deaths of Westerners are celebrated by some Muslims, or the jubilation of some Brits at Lady Thatcher's passing. That's sickening, to put it mildly.

[harsha]

and not forget one particular Sunil Tripathy who was declared a terrorist by the media and the online community , i think the twitterati as well as reddit and similar sites need to introspect and realise the harm that would be done to the family and to the guy(if he's still alive) by accusing him of terrorism just cause you got a computer screen in front of you,

[keysersoze]

but I found the police tweeting that justice had won rather distasteful, he has been arrested as a suspect and now justice can start, however obvious it is that these guys were the bombers there is a legal process to go through to serve justice.

Those police should be jubilant; after all, one of them had been killed--defenselss--sitting in his car the previous evening. Moreover, the perp and his scum bother had been lobbing explosives at police during the chase, and had explosives strapped to their persons. If I was a cop and knew I had to face instant annhilation, I might be just a wee bit overjoyed when the ordeal was over.

As for this punk getting justuice, that is the lunacy that is the American legal system. We're too nice. If there were any sincere, effective justice, he would be sentenced tomorrow rather than getting to benefit from years of legal tap dancing between teams of lawyers that will keep him out of the chair for 20 years.

[DBell]

Those police should be jubilant; after all, one of them had been killed--defenselss--sitting in his car the previous evening. Moreover, the perp and his scum bother had been lobbing explosives at police during the chase, and had explosives strapped to their persons. If I was a cop and knew I had to face instant annhilation, I might be just a wee bit overjoyed when the ordeal was over.

As for this punk getting justuice, that is the lunacy that is the American legal system. We're too nice. If there were any sincere, effective justice, he would be sentenced tomorrow rather than getting to benefit from years of legal tap dancing between teams of lawyers that will keep him out of the chair for 20 years.

I agree with the first part of this post and all of you previous post and while I understand the emotion of the last part of your post, innocence until proven guilty still means that for me, especially with the several cases of people who spent considerable time in prison that were exonerated of the crimes they were convicted of through DNA test in the recent years. From what I've seen so far, I have no doubt that these 2 are responsible for the events of the past week. But that doesn't mean I want to suspend one of the cornerstones of our justice system for a quick hanging. Even if he is sitting around in prison for years, I suspect his time spent won't be pleasant. Even with convicts, these crimes won't be looked upon favorably.

[Robinho]

I don't doubt the police should be jubilant and very happy with what will be considered a success, despite the injuries of their own, but they have to understand their part in the process and uphold the justice system, to be better than those who would employ vigilante summary execution, and why i was disappointed with the phrases used on the Boston police's official Twitter feed

Sent from North Korea using the dark network

[gloomyDAY]

Here's an album of the standoff: boston ops - Imgur (http://imgur.com/a/Asgdb#77).

Also, here's a picture (http://imgur.com/XDuMHCY) of the captured kid.

Lastly, a video of a Fed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahwSmcZxBAU) going above/over the call of duty.

[Knock-on]

and not forget one particular Sunil Tripathy who was declared a terrorist by the media and the online community , i think the twitterati as well as reddit and similar sites need to introspect and realise the harm that would be done to the family and to the guy(if he's still alive) by accusing him of terrorism just cause you got a computer screen in front of you,

A very good point and I am sure one that will be discussed in the aftermath of this episode.

Speculation as to the motives behind this act are meanless until facts emerge and I thought the online Witch hunt was trully shamefull and callous. Yet again, the Internet is used by single digit IQ idiots to persue mob rule. When will people learn to grow a bit of intelligence :(

I'm glad the perpetrators have been caught and hope this was just two disaffected individuals but time will tell.

I don't know if it was reported in the media but it was a nice gesture that flowers were laid at the gates of the US Embassy in Moscow immediately after the blast. Nice to know that sympathy against terrorism crosses borders.

[BDunnell]

Some very good posts above — and, I must say, the odd one whose justification of overly 'gung-ho' behaviour I find a bit concerning. I doubt the same would have been seen in a lot of other countries. Nor, I'm willing to bet, would the Czech Ambassador to any other country have been forced to issue a statement clarifying that the suspects were not from his country, but Chechnya.

[keysersoze]

I agree with the first part of this post and all of you previous post and while I understand the emotion of the last part of your post, innocence until proven guilty still means that for me, especially with the several cases of people who spent considerable time in prison that were exonerated of the crimes they were convicted of through DNA test in the recent years. From what I've seen so far, I have no doubt that these 2 are responsible for the events of the past week. But that doesn't mean I want to suspend one of the cornerstones of our justice system for a quick hanging. Even if he is sitting around in prison for years, I suspect his time spent won't be pleasant. Even with convicts, these crimes won't be looked upon favorably.

I certainly agree that the accused should be deemed innocent until proven guilty--and that there have been instances of prisoners being wrongly-accused--but this guy is clearly guilty. To that end there needs to be swift justice; that is, thrown in prison without the satisfaction of witnessing your notoriety played out in the media, no interviews by the media. Said prisoner never sees their family again, never enjoys media or "entertainment" of any kind (except, perhaps, books). FWIW, while I deplore the millions of taxpayer dollars spend on trials for clearly-guilty violent criminals, I do not believe in capital punishment.

I do realize, of course, that I'm merely dreaming.

[keysersoze]

I doubt the same would have been seen in a lot of other countries.

I doubt that is true. Indeed, if the same had happened in another country, Americans would be celebrating on that country's behalf. We were quite elated (as was most of the rest of the world) that the Israeli forces raided Entebbe Airport and ended that week-long siege that targeted Jews.

[BDunnell]

I doubt that is true. Indeed, if the same had happened in another country, Americans would be celebrating on that country's behalf. We were quite elated (as was most of the rest of the world) that the Israeli forces raided Entebbe Airport and ended that week-long siege that targeted Jews.

I can say with much certainty that the reaction in the vast majority of European countries would have been much less 'gung-ho'. I think we're less impressed by violence, even if the ends justify the means.

[BDunnell]

I certainly agree that the accused should be deemed innocent until proven guilty--and that there have been instances of prisoners being wrongly-accused--but this guy is clearly guilty.

A very dangerous statement to make without being in possession of the full facts. There still needs to be due judicial process. Summary justice is all very well for uncivilised countries, but not somewhere like the US.

I appreciate your stance on the death penalty, though.

[keysersoze]

I can say with much certainty that the reaction in the vast majority of European countries would have been much less 'gung-ho'. I think we're less impressed by violence, even if the ends justify the means.

I just think you misunderstand the celebration. This duo killed and maimed people. The police tried to apprehend them peacefully. The bombers responded by throwing explosives out the window of a car stolen at gunpoint (after they killed a cop sitting in his police car), and opened fire on police with bombs strapped to their chests. Only 1 died in the ensuing gun battle, and some of his wounds were self-inflicted.

The survivor responded by driving over his dying brother to break through a police barricade (which endangered the police again). They shut down an entire city--think of the GDP lost that day--in order to protect the citizens, and managed to find and apprehend the 2nd guy without further loss of life.

The authorities gave his safety far more consideration than he gave the people of Boston.

The police are trying to END violence. The police and citizens were celebrating the END of violence. The decent people of this (and other countries) applaud the END of violence, not the violence itself.

Time and again, this country gets criticized by other countries because we deplore the human rights violations (and violence) others inflict upon their own people and we actually try to help them, you know, with our taxpayer dollars and the sacrifice of U.S. lives.

[markabilly]

One can fuss over legal process all they want....however, there are cases where there is no question that someone did the crime and the only real issue is how they should be punished.

Obviously these two guys were not right in the head. The older brother probably led the younger brother down the wrong road. The news has just come out that the older brother had a wife and a three year old child. He appearently visited her on the weekend, but lived with his brother when not in this country. The news first showed her photos as being his girlfriend, but now they blur her face. That information was probably hidden to prevent the kind of savage internent attack and so forth that has happenned to several other people --- pretty pitiful stuff (example is one missing student Sunil Tripathy and the attack on the family).

Everyone who knew them in this country seems to be very stunned that they would have done such a thing. Poeple can come up with all sorts of armchair thoughts and opinions....even the PhD types, but I think none of them have a clue as to what really goes on in the mind of these types of people. They just have great ex posto facto explanations that sound good, but are worthless as to predicting anyone's future behavior.


Even now, the news is full of stuff about the FBI contacting the brother at the request of a foreign government and why they let him go without being tracked and watched. Well, this is suppose to be a free country and we just do not jail people because we think they might do something at some future time. Obviously, there are not the resources to track everyone who just might be a little strange and just might do something violent at some future date several years down the road.

Besides, that "why did the FBI not watch him" mentality is typical blame someone other than the criminal and hold someone else responsible and shift the blame to them.

I hope taking him alive provides more useful information about who else might be involved. Even now the news is discussing that he was not read his rights, and all these protections of providing him with a lawyer and appearance before a judge are not being utilized in hopes of getting more information about the others. While that information would not be admisible in a court proceeding against him, it would be against the others. Even if it was gotten as a result of abusive behavior or even torture, according to one recent Supreme Court opinion.

Besides, they don't need it as to him. The brothers were bragging about what they did in the bombings and shooting the police officer to the driver of the SUV that they carjacked. That bragging is admissible.

But at some point, the death penalty should be applied to him and carried out swiftly. No point in letting someone like that continue to breath, and so I agree with his uncle.


And if he is metally ill, all the more reason to be rid of him, since he can never be trusted again not to do something bad again.

[Ranger]

http://images.smh.com.au/2013/04/20/4208846/art-boston-20pppl-620x349.jpg

Am I the only one that finds images of cheering and mass celebrations in the streets profoundly disturbing?

Four people are dead. 25+ people are now amputees. A "lovely kid" 19-year old university student was one of the perpetrators, and no one knows why.

It is no cause for celebration, it's a ****ing tragedy. That's what it is.

[BDunnell]

I just think you misunderstand the celebration. This duo killed and maimed people. The police tried to apprehend them peacefully. The bombers responded by throwing explosives out the window of a car stolen at gunpoint (after they killed a cop sitting in his police car), and opened fire on police with bombs strapped to their chests. Only 1 died in the ensuing gun battle, and some of his wounds were self-inflicted.

The survivor responded by driving over his dying brother to break through a police barricade (which endangered the police again). They shut down an entire city--think of the GDP lost that day--in order to protect the citizens, and managed to find and apprehend the 2nd guy without further loss of life.

The authorities gave his safety far more consideration than he gave the people of Boston.

The police are trying to END violence. The police and citizens were celebrating the END of violence. The decent people of this (and other countries) applaud the END of violence, not the violence itself.

Time and again, this country gets criticized by other countries because we deplore the human rights violations (and violence) others inflict upon their own people and we actually try to help them, you know, with our taxpayer dollars and the sacrifice of U.S. lives.

But take Norway and Anders Breivik. The authorities gave him access to full legal provision, conducted full legal process, and generally treated him as they would any other suspect. This is exactly how it should be. One of the main reasons I'm glad to live in a democracy is because we behave better in this regard than do countries less democratic in nature. I like to think countries such as Britain and America have nothing to learn from the likes of Saudi Arabia when it comes to dispensing justice.

And I resent deeply the notion that decent people, as you put it, would find anything to celebrate in these events. It's a distasteful spectacle.

[BDunnell]

Am I the only one that finds images of cheering and mass celebrations in the streets profoundly disturbing?

Four people are dead. 25+ people are now amputees. A "lovely kid" 19-year old university student was one of the perpetrators, and no one knows why.

It is no cause for celebration, it's a ****ing tragedy. That's what it is.

Exactly right. By all means praise the authorities for a job well done, but don't treat it as an excuse to party.

[markabilly]

There is a difference between sense of relief and dancing in the streets, and this went a little too far.

On the other hand, much as in Texas, I can not recall so many politicans showing up with canned speeches consisting of mostly non-participants patting themselves on the back introducing themselves and repeating themselves with largely meaningless platitudes, including someone from the US Attorney's office (who would be the prosecuter after he was caught but otherwise had nothing to do with anything in the manhunt except show some face at pressers). One was enough, but almost a dozen??

hell, in Texas, Ricky Perry did not even bother to show up at the scene when not letting his face in the news opportunity go to waste.


Rick Perry, Greg Abbott and the politics of never letting a crisis go to waste | Trail Blazers Blog (http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/2013/04/rick-perry-greg-abbott-and-the-politics-of-never-letting-a-crisis-go-to-waste.html/)

on the other hand, if it makes people feel better well, with the politicans leading the way....whatever.................

[keysersoze]

http://images.smh.com.au/2013/04/20/4208846/art-boston-20pppl-620x349.jpg

Am I the only one that finds images of cheering and mass celebrations in the streets profoundly disturbing?

Four people are dead. 25+ people are now amputees. A "lovely kid" 19-year old university student was one of the perpetrators, and no one knows why.

It is no cause for celebration, it's a ****ing tragedy. That's what it is.

No, I think you are in good company: there are perhaps several out there who are more than willing to confuse this, or spin this, in order to take the requisite weekly pot shots at the United States. :rolleyes:

[BDunnell]

No, I think you are in good company: there are perhaps several out there who are more than willing to confuse this, or spin this, in order to take the requisite weekly pot shots at the United States. :rolleyes:

What confusion or spin is required? The evidence is there for all to see. I cannot think of another country where the reaction to such a situation coming to an end is flag-waving celebration. Did Norwegians party when Breivik was convicted? I doubt it.

[Starter]

What confusion or spin is required? The evidence is there for all to see. I cannot think of another country where the reaction to such a situation coming to an end is flag-waving celebration. Did Norwegians party when Breivik was convicted? I doubt it.
No, but the leftys sure did whoop it up at Thatcher's death - look in the mirror my friend.

[Starter]

Obviously these two guys were not right in the head. The older brother probably led the younger brother down the wrong road. The news has just come out that the older brother had a wife and a three year old child. He appearently visited her on the weekend, but lived with his brother when not in this country. The news first showed her photos as being his girlfriend, but now they blur her face. That information was probably hidden to prevent the kind of savage internent attack and so forth that has happenned to several other people --- pretty pitiful stuff (example is one missing student Sunil Tripathy and the attack on the family).

Everyone who knew them in this country seems to be very stunned that they would have done such a thing. Poeple can come up with all sorts of armchair thoughts and opinions....even the PhD types, but I think none of them have a clue as to what really goes on in the mind of these types of people. They just have great ex posto facto explanations that sound good, but are worthless as to predicting anyone's future behavior.
I'm coming to the conclusion that the radical, jihadist arm of Islam is nothing more than a cult and not a religion at all. Some may argue the point but the proof is pretty plain.

[BDunnell]

No, but the leftys sure did whoop it up at Thatcher's death - look in the mirror my friend.

Had I celebrated Thatcher's death, your puerile comment would be relevant. As I didn't, it's not.

[Spafranco]

No, I think you are in good company: there are perhaps several out there who are more than willing to confuse this, or spin this, in order to take the requisite weekly pot shots at the United States. :rolleyes:

Keyserzone, I feel as though the US is always a target. Don't these people posting negatively regarding an incident completely unfamiliar in it's proximity to their daily lives and most probably or possibly knowing the officers involved after a day in which they were in total lock down,almost under siege.
Two gunfights, a carjacking, the murder of a 26 year old MIT police officer, a robbery of a convenience store, and I forgot, the kidnapping and robbery of the carjacking victim.
Then the real issue comes up with the fact that we have killed two bombers.

Yes, it's time to clap and cheer in celebration of a job well done. Don't target these people because they don't fit your view as to what you is appropriate.

I feel like clapping too.

[BDunnell]

Keyserzone, I feel as though the US is always a target. Don't these people posting negatively regarding an incident completely unfamiliar in it's proximity to their daily lives and most probably or possibly knowing the officers involved after a day in which they were in total lock down,almost under siege.
Two gunfights, a carjacking, the murder of a 26 year old MIT police officer, a robbery of a convenience store, and I forgot, the kidnapping and robbery of the carjacking victim.
Then the real issue comes up with the fact that we have killed two bombers.

Yes, it's time to clap and cheer in celebration of a job well done. Don't target these people because they don't fit your view as to what you is appropriate.

I feel like clapping too.

Yet again, I can only bring up the response to similarly terrible events in other countries, which tends not to involve whooping and cheering. By all means praise those who brought it to a conclusion, but don't be vulgar about it.

[Starter]

Had I celebrated Thatcher's death, your puerile comment would be relevant. As I didn't, it's not.
My puerile comment wasn't directed at you, rather at your comment "I cannot think of another country where the reaction to such a situation coming to an end is flag-waving celebration.".Obviously, I was easily able to think of another country where a similar situation occurred. You do use every opportunity possible to take pot shots at the US and that was what prompted the "look in the mirror comment". You do seem to love to dish it out, but have difficulty when on the receiving end.

[henners88]

I personally wouldn't be celebrating like that but let's not turn the discussion into the rights and wrongs of how people greet the news. Arguing over such things during a sensitive time will just cause a clash. The important thing is a terrorist has been caught and the families of those who have died and lost limbs can now start the long journey to finding closure. Hopefully this scumbag will have an awful long time to think about the hurt he has caused. Being only a teenager he'll probably spend at least 50 years behind bars. Still at the moment he has his life which is more than his victims have after he ended theirs without permission.

[BDunnell]

My puerile comment wasn't directed at you, rather at your comment "I cannot think of another country where the reaction to such a situation coming to an end is flag-waving celebration.".Obviously, I was easily able to think of another country where a similar situation occurred. You do use every opportunity possible to take pot shots at the US and that was what prompted the "look in the mirror comment". You do seem to love to dish it out, but have difficulty when on the receiving end.

I have no difficulty at all being 'on the receiving end', because I simply dismiss your view entirely. You are not comparing like with like.

[BDunnell]

The important thing is a terrorist has been caught and the families of those who have died and lost limbs can now start the long journey to finding closure. Hopefully this scumbag will have an awful long time to think about the hurt he has caused. Being only a teenager he'll probably spend at least 50 years behind bars. Still at the moment he has his life which is more than his victims have after he ended theirs without permission.

I agree. It is also worth noting that the fact of one of the perpetrators being caught alive ought to be very valuable in terms of ascertaining how this came about, not that those hollering 'USA' and waving flags presumably care two hoots for such things as understanding why things happen.

[keysersoze]

Keyserzone, I feel as though the US is always a target. Don't these people posting negatively regarding an incident completely unfamiliar in it's proximity to their daily lives and most probably or possibly knowing the officers involved after a day in which they were in total lock down,almost under siege.
Two gunfights, a carjacking, the murder of a 26 year old MIT police officer, a robbery of a convenience store, and I forgot, the kidnapping and robbery of the carjacking victim.
Then the real issue comes up with the fact that we have killed two bombers.

Yes, it's time to clap and cheer in celebration of a job well done. Don't target these people because they don't fit your view as to what you is appropriate.

I feel like clapping too.

Thank you. Where's the "extreme like" button? ;)

[BDunnell]

Don't target these people because they don't fit your view as to what you is appropriate.

You can't possibly apply that view with any consistency. Should Islamic extremists not be targeted because 'they don't fit your view as to what is appropriate', for example?

[race aficionado]

Cowardly and tragic as this has been, the "Big Brother" camera network system has come through again.

Face it,
our face is being recorded as we walk the streets and live our daily lives.

More and more will be installed for sure ....

[Spafranco]

You can't possibly apply that view with any consistency. Should Islamic extremists not be targeted because 'they don't fit your view as to what is appropriate', for example?
Thankfully the number of terrorist attacks thankfully, is not as many as other countries but they tend to be of a more visceral quality. So excuse us for the actual temerity of celebrating one these anti American terrorists after a week of fear.
For one time, just once, why don't Europeans stop blaming the US of being vulgar in their reaction to the most horrendous atrocities. Why you always seem to feel like YOU are the victim when I post or certain others.
You are blatantly anti- America. Face up to it. We can take. We got Bin Laden after all. We got these freaks in five days.

USA :)

[ioan]

I agree. It is also worth noting that the fact of one of the perpetrators being caught alive ought to be very valuable in terms of ascertaining how this came about, not that those hollering 'USA' and waving flags presumably care two hoots for such things as understanding why things happen.

Not everyone is born equally endowed ( I know some will disagree but that is another topic), some understand things as they are some just do whatever the mass media tells them.

[ioan]

For one time, just once, why don't Europeans stop blaming the US of being vulgar in their reaction to the most horrendous atrocities.

First of all, my condolences to the families of the victims of the bombing.

Secondly, what exactly is your problem with Europeans? Is it because we think differently about wars and human rights? This has been discussed to death around here with the conclusions we all know.

[ioan]

Cowardly and tragic as this has been, the "Big Brother" camera network system has come through again.

Face it,
our face is being recorded as we walk the streets and live our daily lives.

More and more will be installed for sure ....

Exactly!
Rest assured this newest 'terrorist' act will result in an even more draconian set of laws and rules then what the initial Patriot act was about.
Reading some comment on US sites made me cringe. people would accept anything from the US government as long as they will be kept free of those 'bloody' immigrants. Obviously many people forgot their own roots real fast.

[ioan]

Thank you. Where's the "extreme like" button? ;)

This is a balanced forum. No extreme stuff allowed.

[BDunnell]

For one time, just once, why don't Europeans stop blaming the US of being vulgar in their reaction to the most horrendous atrocities. Why you always seem to feel like YOU are the victim when I post or certain others.

I certainly don't feel like I'm a 'victim' of any sort; rather, I'm expressing the view that such celebrations seem vulgar, belligerent, unthinking and inarticulate. Worse, those indulging in these celebrations or advocating them come across as delighting in being all these things.



You are blatantly anti- America.

Ah, the most empty, anti-intellectual idea of them all — that the merest criticism of some Americans, not America, constitutes anti-Americanism. Who's playing the victim now?

[BDunnell]

Reading some comment on US sites made me cringe.

Given that quite a few Americans confused Chechnya with the Czech Republic, I think we can be forgiven for claiming some degree of intellectual superiority over those individuals at least.

[DBell]

I personally wouldn't be celebrating like that but let's not turn the discussion into the rights and wrongs of how people greet the news. Arguing over such things during a sensitive time will just cause a clash. The important thing is a terrorist has been caught and the families of those who have died and lost limbs can now start the long journey to finding closure. Hopefully this scumbag will have an awful long time to think about the hurt he has caused. Being only a teenager he'll probably spend at least 50 years behind bars. Still at the moment he has his life which is more than his victims have after he ended theirs without permission.

That he'll survive his injuries isn't a given. The hospital has said he is still alive, but can't release any updates on his condition because the FBI won't allow it. I got the impression that he is not out of the woods yet.

I don't think he will get 50 years or a sentence of that kind. Massachusetts doesn't have the death penalty, but he won't be prosecuted by the state. He'll be prosecuted by the Feds and they will go for the death penalty, I'm sure.

[anthonyvop]

4th major Terror attack on US soil since she took over as head of the Dept of Homeland Security.


Somebody explain to me why Big Sis(Janet Napolitano) still has a job?

[BDunnell]

That he'll survive his injuries isn't a given. The hospital has said he is still alive, but can't release any updates on his condition because the FBI won't allow it. I got the impression that he is not out of the woods yet.

Were he not to survive, I'm sure there would be more celebration, ignoring the fact that his dying would present far less opportunity to understand what motivated his actions and those of his brother. Merely saying that someone is simply 'evil', or words to that effect, is vacuous.

[anthonyvop]

Were he not to survive, I'm sure there would be more celebration, ignoring the fact that his dying would present far less opportunity to understand what motivated his actions and those of his brother. Merely saying that someone is simply 'evil', or words to that effect, is vacuous.

What is the big secrete?

He is just another Muslim peon who is stupid enough to die for one of the stupidest and vile of religions. And that is saying a lot.

The only info I want is to know who helped them because like most IslamoFascist they are incapable of doing it themselves.

FYI IF I said the above in the UK I would probably be arrested.

[gloomyDAY]

I know this is going to seem stupid to some of you, but when Osama bin Laden died, I got drunk with my Army buddies. It was a proud day to be an American, and the sense of relief was immense. I think the celebration on the streets of Boston had more to do with relief than an act of revelry. America hurdled through another act of terror, and we're all the happier for it.


Rest assured this newest 'terrorist' act will result in an even more draconian set of laws and rules then what the initial Patriot act was about.You're absolutely right! We as Americans tend to overreact and make our lives that much more difficult. The unPATRIOTic Act stripped us of civil rights and liberties, and if you see the pictures I posted earlier (http://imgur.com/a/Asgdb#77) over the Boston manhunt operation, then you'd clearly notice that we're already in the grips of a police-state.


4th major Terror attack on US soil since she took over as head of the Dept of Homeland Security. Somebody explain to me why Big Sis(Janet Napolitano) still has a job?Maybe you can explain to me how anyone was supposed to know that 2 renegade kids would plant a bomb at a major sporting event. How could have anyone known? Also, which 4 events are you talking about, Ant? I'd like to see who else laid a fart, so you can completely blame this administration.

[anthonyvop]

Maybe you can explain to me how anyone was supposed to know that 2 renegade kids would plant a bomb at a major sporting event. How could have anyone known? Also, which 4 events are you talking about, Ant? I'd like to see who else laid a fart, so you can completely blame this administration.

How?
FBI Admits It Interviewed Big Brother Boston Marathon Bombing Suspect (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/04/19/FBI-admits-interviewed-Tamerlan)
FBI, Immigration Officials Lost Track of Bomber Tamerlan (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/04/20/fbi-immigration-officials-lost-track-of-bomber-tamarlan)


Other Terror attacks?

Times Square
Fort Hood
Tuscon

Toss in Dorner and the Sikh Temple which some may classify as terror attacks as well.

[Roamy]

4th major Terror attack on US soil since she took over as head of the Dept of Homeland Security.


Somebody explain to me why Big Sis(Janet Napolitano) still has a job?

Because Clinton wants to make sure someone dumber than Janet Reno serves in this office!!

[Ranger]

He is just another Muslim peon who is stupid enough to die for one of the stupidest and vile of religions. And that is saying a lot.

Just because he seems to have followed Islam does not mean it is the reason he planted a bomb at a marathon.

This should be obvious.

[anthonyvop]

Just because he seems to have followed Islam does not mean it is the reason he planted a bomb at a marathon.

This should be obvious.


Yea! Right! You keep believing that!


As for me....if is looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck.........It is a Duck. A scum sucking, moronic, Islamofascist duck!

[Knock-on]

Ok, some people find the overt celebrations rather crass but thats because we do things a different way. Not saying its right or wrong but different. We are still allowed differences and can accept others act a different way; cant we?

I remember when obl was killed. I recall it clearly the feeling of relief and a bit if guilt about being secretly glad. I had a pint and remembered 9/11. I was on a conference call at the time to Houston and we cut it short. I also had colleagues in the twin towers but their project had finished early and they werent there. I had a friend that missed the flight that went down in fields.

I was just relieved that a horrible chapter had closed.

I wasnt in Boston last week but if i was involved and went through that nightmare, the relief and adrenelin might have made me act a bit less reserved.

Lastly, before anyone points any intellectual fingers, whose contries yobs attacked pedeotricians thinking they were

[Knock-on]

(stupid mobile app wont let me finish post. Here it is)

... Pedophiles. Stupid is as stupid does. Its not geographically defined.

[henners88]

Yea! Right! You keep believing that!

As for me....if is looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck.........It is a Duck. A scum sucking, moronic, Islamofascist duck!
I'm sure there are hundreds possibly thousands of Muslims in Boston who don't plant bombs simply because they believe in Islam. If your attitude is representative of the vast majority of Americans (which I don't believe), then its no wonder anger builds up. This is the problem Tony, you believe a stereotype like the ramble you just made, and there are terror groups who believe all Americans hate Muslims hence why they think everything is a war on Islam. Is a little stupid to label a whole group of people through a narrow minded view and then criticise why they come to certain conclusions.

[Knock-on]

One of the main reasos i am anti-guns is because people like Tony might have one :(

[BDunnell]

Ok, some people find the overt celebrations rather crass but thats because we do things a different way. Not saying its right or wrong but different. We are still allowed differences and can accept others act a different way; cant we?

Up to a point. As I said, I assume you wouldn't apply the same rationale to every viewpoint — for example, you wouldn't say that we should accept Islamic extremism on the grounds that it's 'doing things a different way', would you?



Lastly, before anyone points any intellectual fingers, whose contries yobs attacked pedeotricians thinking they were

Of course, there are idiots in every country, but there's a part of me that thinks the behaviour of those celebrating the Boston suspect's capture was more typical of a mainstream way of thinking than was the attack on a paediatrician by people thinking they were a paedophile.

[BDunnell]

One of the main reasos i am anti-guns is because people like Tony might have one :(

As always, those who are most enthusiastic about having guns are those one would least trust with them.

[BDunnell]

Maybe you can explain to me how anyone was supposed to know that 2 renegade kids would plant a bomb at a major sporting event. How could have anyone known? Also, which 4 events are you talking about, Ant? I'd like to see who else laid a fart, so you can completely blame this administration.

There is something horribly ironic about anthonyvop criticising others for intelligence failings.

[Roamy]

Of all the terrorist acts committed over the past 20 yrs - What percentage were carried out by Muslims?

Ben - The scary deal would be YOU having a gun!!

[Ranger]

Yea! Right! You keep believing that!


As for me....if is looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck.........It is a Duck. A scum sucking, moronic, Islamofascist duck!


Of all the terrorist acts committed over the past 20 yrs - What percentage were carried out by Muslims?

Back to square one.

Let's first separate Islam and Islamic terrorism. Can we do that?

Otherwise you would have no problem saying that Catholicism causes priests to abuse children... but it doesn't.

Why?

Correlation does not imply causation.

Now, if you want a motive Islamic terrorists have to target America - which we don't know if Tsarnaev is - I give you this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQeAzx8mc7g

It does NOT justify any terrorist attack such as the one that occurred in Boston, which I was sickened by.

Unfortunately, they will keep happening for the reasons explained in the video above... cause and effect.

Having said that, we have no answers from Tsarnaev yet, so we should wait - instead of mindlessly generalising and learning nothing from this entire tragedy.

[donKey jote]

Of all the terrorist acts committed over the past 20 yrs -

I take it you're not including shopping mall, cinema, high school or kindergarten shootings ...

[ioan]

Given that quite a few Americans confused Chechnya with the Czech Republic, I think we can be forgiven for claiming some degree of intellectual superiority over those individuals at least.

Nah, the worst I've seen is people commenting how great the Russian are because they bombed the hell out of Chechnya for a decade.
The idiocy is just as high as the feelings in the US atm.

[ioan]

What is the big secrete?

He is just another Muslim peon who is stupid enough to die for one of the stupidest and vile of religions. And that is saying a lot.

The only info I want is to know who helped them because like most IslamoFascist they are incapable of doing it themselves.

FYI IF I said the above in the UK I would probably be arrested.

Your post just shows that all religions are the same and their followers are equally stupid.

[BDunnell]

What is the big secrete?

He is just another Muslim peon who is stupid enough to die for one of the stupidest and vile of religions. And that is saying a lot.

The only info I want is to know who helped them because like most IslamoFascist they are incapable of doing it themselves.

FYI IF I said the above in the UK I would probably be arrested.

For one thing, why is it that virtually every comment one reads along the lines of the above is so badly written? Could it be that Islamophobia is most prevalent amongst those somewhat lacking in education?

Secondly, unless I'm very much mistaken, the website on which you wrote the above is itself British. I therefore await your deportation to answer charges of causing religious offence.

[ioan]

Ok, some people find the overt celebrations rather crass but thats because we do things a different way. Not saying its right or wrong but different. We are still allowed differences and can accept others act a different way; cant we?

I remember how Americans were upset that some people in Pakistan were celebrating the Boston Marathon bombing. Shall we not accept that others act in a different way?

PS: For my part I have found both cases repulsive.

[ioan]

I take it you're not including shopping mall, cinema, high school or kindergarten shootings ...

Those were not perpetrated by any Islamist. In their minds some US citizens have special rights and derogation when it comes to doing some stuff...

[ioan]

Of course, there are idiots in every country, but there's a part of me that thinks the behaviour of those celebrating the Boston suspect's capture was more typical of a mainstream way of thinking than was the attack on a paediatrician by people thinking they were a paedophile.

Who makes and watches most patriotic and violent movies on this planet?!
Which country has the 2nd highest level of brainwashing it's citizens, 2nd only to North Korea, into believing that they are so special and better then other nations on Earth?!

[Starter]

Who makes and watches most patriotic and violent movies on this planet?!
Which country has the 2nd highest level of brainwashing it's citizens, 2nd only to North Korea, into believing that they are so special and better then other nations on Earth?!
Yours? :p :

[Starter]

I take it you're not including shopping mall, cinema, high school or kindergarten shootings ...
There is a fine line between terrorism and just plain old garden variety head cases. Based on the criteria of terrorism occurring on political or religious grounds, then those incidents should be excluded. Even if you include them the percentages remain essentially as Roamy stated.

[Starter]

Islam, in the broadest sense, is a peaceful religion. It, like all religions, can be highjacked by extremists. That does not surprise me. What does surprise me is that such a large majority of Muslims worldwide sit on the side lines and have little to say in opposition to those who defame their religion by their actions. You hear little condemnation of the ones responsible. More importantly, little action taken to oppose or stop it.

[BDunnell]

Islam, in the broadest sense, is a peaceful religion. It, like all religions, can be highjacked by extremists. That does not surprise me. What does surprise me is that such a large majority of Muslims worldwide sit on the side lines and have little to say in opposition to those who defame their religion by their actions. You hear little condemnation of the ones responsible. More importantly, little action taken to oppose or stop it.

What you hear of these things is what your favoured media outlets choose to tell you. Do you have any Muslim acquaintances or friends?

[ioan]

Yours? :p :

Nope. ;)

[ioan]

Islam, in the broadest sense, is a peaceful religion. It, like all religions, can be highjacked by extremists. That does not surprise me. What does surprise me is that such a large majority of Muslims worldwide sit on the side lines and have little to say in opposition to those who defame their religion by their actions. You hear little condemnation of the ones responsible. More importantly, little action taken to oppose or stop it.

How many people do really have and voice their own opinions? Not many at all.
One recent case that springs to mind is from the US, it's the Occupy Wall Street case, where even though many people know and feel that things are wrong in today's economic reality they didn't move a finger to support those who tried to make a move.
In the case of the Muslims it's the other way around.

In the end 99% of all people are not made for driving a change, whatever that would be, they are just made to follow the leader. It is due to several factors, the biggest one being education, or lack of it.

[Starter]

What you hear of these things is what your favoured media outlets choose to tell you. Do you have any Muslim acquaintances or friends?
yes, several.

[Spafranco]

First of all, my condolences to the families of the victims of the bombing.

Secondly, what exactly is your problem with Europeans? Is it because we think differently about wars and human rights? This has been discussed to death around here with the conclusions we all know.

As is evident with the comments regarding Islam, not all Europeans are an issue just those, like you, who apparently does not read the posts that

constantly demean the people of the United States.

To anyone with a modicum of intelligence, the reaction as a result of the fear perpetrated by these two men who have taken advantage of

what the US offers but in particular what this small town within the city of Boston felt. People in a closely knit community reacted as any people will

when confronted with people like these two were responsible for the horrific death and injury perpetrated on the people of Watertown, Boston and the

US. So, give us a little latitude and give us a few moments of comfort amidst the fear these people felt all week.

[keysersoze]

Of course, there are idiots in every country, but there's a part of me that thinks the behaviour of those celebrating the Boston suspect's capture was more typical of a mainstream way of thinking than was the attack on a paediatrician by people thinking they were a paedophile.

That "mainstream way of thinking" was justified elation at the authorities for a job well done . . . and a very bad guy off the streets.

This is not a one-off situation--we've been under siege by PEOPLE WE HAVE WELCOMED INTO OUR COUNTRY. I'd like to offer a very short list of Muslim extremist violence against Americans on American soil:

1) Bombed the WTC in the early 90s.
2) Flew two planes into both WTC towers
3) Flew a plane into the Pentagon
4) Tried to fly a plane into another high-profile government target but were thwarted by passengers (but all passengers were killed)
5) An extremist who infiltrated our own US Army turns his gun on a dozen servicemen, killing them, at a military base in Texas.
6) Boston bombing

You will have to pardon us jacka$$es for being viscerally overwhelmed that we got a small measure of our safety back. I realize it's difficult for many to fathom this basic concept.

[BDunnell]

yes, several.

And what do they say? Do you criticise them for not condemning those responsible for Islamic extremism, or for taking 'little action to oppose or stop it'?

[BDunnell]

You will have to pardon us jacka$$es for being happy we got a small measure of our safety back. I realize that means so very little to others.

Not at all. When similar things happen to us, we don't go on about it, though. As I've said repeatedly, look at Norway. That's how best to act as a country in the face of horrors committed by extremists. Britain was generally restrained following the 2005 tube bombings, too, and in the face of an IRA threat going back decades. You don't have a monopoly on feeling threatened.

[Spafranco]

What you hear of these things is what your favoured media outlets choose to tell you. Do you have any Muslim acquaintances or friends?
Once again akin to the post that followed this by Ioan you jump at the chance to make a conclusion based on either the lack of education in the US or

the political slant of what certain posts state.

What Starter has said is absolutely correct. Where have you seen the outrage (within the Muslim community)and condemnation of the attacks by these

two who without a doubt are and were Muslim.

[Spafranco]

Who makes and watches most patriotic and violent movies on this planet?!
Which country has the 2nd highest level of brainwashing it's citizens, 2nd only to North Korea, into believing that they are so special and better then other nations on Earth?!

Tell us which country you are speaking of? Comparing an other country apparently within the western world is a very bold and serious statement to make in the current climate.

[BDunnell]

Once again akin to the post that followed this by Ioan you jump at the chance to make a conclusion based on either the lack of education in the US or

the political slant of what certain posts state.

What Starter has said is absolutely correct. Where have you seen the outrage (within the Muslim community)and condemnation of the attacks by these

two who without a doubt are and were Muslim.

A simple Google search for 'Muslim condemnation of Boston bombings' will bring up numerous reports. The criticism is there if one chooses to look for it — not that it's of the slightest influence when dealing with warped minds.

[BDunnell]

Tell us which country you are speaking of? Comparing an other country apparently within the western world is a very bold and serious statement to make in the current climate.

'A serious statement to make in the current climate'? That's a bit overblown. ioan's just some chap on a message board, you know.

[Spafranco]

Given that quite a few Americans confused Chechnya with the Czech Republic, I think we can be forgiven for claiming some degree of intellectual superiority over those individuals at least.

Quite a few Americans? Where? The media,forums or those you know? Certainly I'm sure it would be quite easy for one to find such people in Europe.

You would have to agree, correct?

Not all Europeans would be able to name all of the former satellite countries of Russia or those seeking independence. Could you?

[Spafranco]

A simple Google search for 'Muslim condemnation of Boston bombings' will bring up numerous reports. The criticism is there if one chooses to look for it — not that it's of the slightest influence when dealing with warped minds.

Thank you. You just proved what most of us on this forum have stated (Americans I mean). You have to Google it. Pretty sad.

[BDunnell]

Quite a few Americans? Where? The media,forums or those you know? Certainly I'm sure it would be quite easy for one to find such people in Europe.

You would have to agree, correct?

I very much doubt it would be quite so easy, in spite of the numbers of moronic individuals to be found on my own shores.

Don't forget, this prompted the Czech ambassador in Washington to issue an official statement of 'clarification'.



Not all Europeans would be able to name all of the former satellite countries of Russia or those seeking independence. Could you?

Yes, I could. And I certainly wouldn't get Chechnya and the Czech Republic muddled up. That's plainly idiotic.

[BDunnell]

Thank you. You just proved what most of us on this forum have stated (Americans I mean). You have to Google it. Pretty sad.

And there it is, being covered by several news outlets — just not the ones you choose to consume. Far from proving your point, it proves mine.

[henners88]

Would you rather we run round the Muslim neighbourhoods door knocking for an answer? lol... If its sad doing a google search it's even sadder discussing it with people we don't know surely? :p

[BDunnell]

Would you rather we run round the Muslim neighbourhoods door knocking for an answer?

Well, quite.

[keysersoze]

Who makes and watches most patriotic and violent movies on this planet?!
Which country has the 2nd highest level of brainwashing it's citizens, 2nd only to North Korea, into believing that they are so special and better then other nations on Earth?!

You don't know much about the American film industry, which is highly critical of conservative politics. The violence I will grant you, but that mostly a red herring argument.

Your last statement is pure b.s.--you must be buying what your media is feeding you.

[Spafranco]

'A serious statement to make in the current climate'? That's a bit overblown. ioan's just some chap on a message board, you know.

BDunnell,it is confusing the manner in which you post. While I read your posts and some are well thought out, and see my own replies to some and the

lack of clarity due to words not being printed although typed (two keyboard issues hence computer issues) it seems that I may be of the less than

swift variety intellectually. The old adage, A slip of the tongue is no fault of the mind,should be applied.

You do not have the 'monopoly' as you mentioned in another post on anything as we know already we don't either so why do you assume or project to

the forum that only your posts on topics are to be taken seriously and the interjection of others is minimized.

The statement I made is certainly not overblown.

[BDunnell]

You don't know much about the American film industry, which is highly critical of conservative politics.

Where did ioan refer to 'conservative politics'? He referred to patriotism, which is a very different matter.



Your last statement is pure b.s.--you must be buying what your media is feeding you.

I would respectfully suggest he was exaggerating for effect.

[Knock-on]

Umm, what to say?

Observing this pissing contest is rather distastefull but why is it happening? Is a criminl and terrorist attrocity against members of the public worthy of this type of rhetoric?

Grow up peeps. You're supposed to be humans :(

[BDunnell]

The old adage, A slip of the tongue is no fault of the mind,should be applied.

Believe me, I do not wish to lump you in with those the level of whose intellect I question, even if I may disagree with you.



The statement I made is certainly not overblown.

How so? ioan's comment was not 'serious' at all. Were he a senior public figure, it might have been, but all he was doing was posting on a forum. Not that serious, in the grand scheme of things.

[BDunnell]

Observing this pissing contest is rather distastefull but why is it happening? Is a criminl and terrorist attrocity against members of the public worthy of this type of rhetoric?

It was a form of rhetoric, namely vulgar celebration, that caused this debate to start in the first place.

[Spafranco]

And there it is, being covered by several news outlets — just not the ones you choose to consume. Far from proving your point, it proves mine.

For the sake of clarity, and don't get your panties in a knot, it was you, not me that stated Google searches. So, my point has been made. All you have to is for just the sake of being polite, admit you overstepped your mark. We, in this country are not ,all of us at least, uneducated.

[Spafranco]

I am not posting responses to these posts or forums with an attitude that it is only an internet forum! That would negate all issues contained within forums to the level of mundane and lacking in earnest and sincerity.

With that type of thinking many depravities one finds on the internet would be tripe and all comments and websites ignored.

Gary Glitter should be excused?

[BleAivano]

That "mainstream way of thinking" was justified elation at the authorities for a job well done . . . and a very bad guy off the streets.

This is not a one-off situation--we've been under siege by PEOPLE WE HAVE WELCOMED INTO OUR COUNTRY. I'd like to offer a very short list of Muslim extremist violence against Americans on American soil:

1) Bombed the WTC in the early 90s.
2) Flew two planes into both WTC towers
3) Flew a plane into the Pentagon
4) Tried to fly a plane into another high-profile government target but were thwarted by passengers (but all passengers were killed)
5) An extremist who infiltrated our own US Army turns his gun on a dozen servicemen, killing them, at a military base in Texas.
6) Boston bombing

You will have to pardon us jacka$$es for being viscerally overwhelmed that we got a small measure of our safety back. I realize it's difficult for many to fathom this basic concept.


And how much have the USA bombed during the past 10 years? How many 10'000s or possible even 100'000s
have died or become injured because of the US wars? How many have been taken to court for this?

which of these have caused the most deaths and injuries to US citizens? By far the aggression wars fought by the USA and its vassals
against Muslim countries have caused more death, injuries and destruction in comparison to the terror attacks against USA.

And what is up with all this nonsense of the 19 year old being an "Illegal combatant"?
Is he a soldier of another country's army? No he is not.
Is he a civilian US citizen just like the rest of you? Yes he is. so why should his rights then be taken from him?

[BDunnell]

For the sake of clarity, and don't get your panties in a knot, it was you, not me that stated Google searches. So, my point has been made. All you have to is for just the sake of being polite, admit you overstepped your mark.

No, I don't. It was said that the reports of Muslims objecting to the actions of their fellow Muslims weren't there; I showed that they are, depending on the media you consume. These same objections had been reported here by the BBC only the other day.

[keysersoze]

Where did ioan refer to 'conservative politics'? He referred to patriotism, which is a very different matter.

In this country, the media will have us believe that "patriotism" and "conservative politics" are essentially the same thing.

But why do I get the feeling you already knew that?

[BDunnell]

In this country, the media will have us believe that "patriotism" and "conservative politics" are essentially the same thing.

They can certainly be, but, without wishing to put words into ioan's mouth, I'd imagine he was referring to those films that portray a view of history in which the US contribution to certain events is over-emphasised. This need not be seen as expressly or implicitly conservative.

[keysersoze]

And how much have the USA bombed during the past 10 years? How many 10'000s or possible even 100'000s
have died or become injured because of the US wars? How many have been taken to court for this?

which of these have caused the most deaths and injuries to US citizens? By far the aggression wars fought by the USA and its vassals
against Muslim countries have caused more death, injuries and destruction in comparison to the terror attacks against USA.

And what is up with all this nonsense of the 19 year old being an "Illegal combatant"?
Is he a soldier of another country's army? No he is not.
Is he a civilian US citizen just like the rest of you? Yes he is. so why should his rights then be taken from him?

I will not even dignify this with a reply. Please--do not respond to any of my posts again. You have my word that I will not respond to any of yours.

[Roamy]

For one thing, why is it that virtually every comment one reads along the lines of the above is so badly written? Could it be that Islamophobia is most prevalent amongst those somewhat lacking in education?

Secondly, unless I'm very much mistaken, the website on which you wrote the above is itself British. I therefore await your deportation to answer charges of causing religious offence.

Ben I think you suffer from severe phobiaholicism. Anything you can't rationalize is a phobia. There are many levels of education and many areas of education and you as well as others fall short in many areas. This includes your "little dick holder from Romania" If you feel your education level is too superior for this forum then you should probably move on. I think it is you that is having a education problem on this forum. Quite frankly this is actually a racing forum and chit chat just brings together some cutural interchange that you continually try to inject phobias into. Get over it.

[donKey jote]

Somebody pass the popcorn... Fousto's back :laugh:

[donKey jote]

And what is up with all this nonsense of the 19 year old being an "Illegal combatant"?
Is he a soldier of another country's army? No he is not.
Is he a civilian US citizen just like the rest of you? Yes he is. so why should his rights then be taken from him?
He's clearly part of an islamofascist sleeper cell, arriving in the country in 2001 (what happened in 2001 again?) at the ripe old age of 8 so as not to raise any suspicions....
err no, he's an illegal combatant because he's Muslim and used IED's instead of assault rifles :dozey:

Chuyên s?n xu?t n?p chai nh?a Ø28, Ø30

Liên h? Giang DT 0907153111 Công ty TNHH s?n xu?t thuong m?i Trúc Giang
D?a ch?: F2/18D, ?p 6, xã Vinh L?c A, Bình Chánh TP.HCM, Di?n tho?i 0907153111

Chuyên s?n xu?t, cung c?p các lo?i n?p chai dùng cho nu?c u?ng dóng chai, nu?c n?m vÃ* các lo?i chai PET khác, nh?n s?n xu?t n?p theo yêu c?u c?a khách hÃ*ng, nh?n gia công ép nh?a các lo?i.


Liên h? Giang DT 0907153111 Công ty TNHH s?n xu?t thuong m?i Trúc Giang
D?a ch?: F2/18D, ?p 6, xã Vinh L?c A, Bình Chánh TP.HCM, Di?n tho?i 0907153111

[Zico]

Chuyên s?n xu?t n?p chai nh?a Ø28, Ø30

Liên h? Giang DT 0907153111 Công ty TNHH s?n xu?t thuong m?i Trúc Giang
D?a ch?: F2/18D, ?p 6, xã Vinh L?c A, Bình Chánh TP.HCM, Di?n tho?i 0907153111

Chuyên s?n xu?t, cung c?p các lo?i n?p chai dùng cho nu?c u?ng dóng chai, nu?c n?m vÃ* các lo?i chai PET khác, nh?n s?n xu?t n?p theo yêu c?u c?a khách hÃ*ng, nh?n gia công ép nh?a các lo?i.


Liên h? Giang DT 0907153111 Công ty TNHH s?n xu?t thuong m?i Trúc Giang
D?a ch?: F2/18D, ?p 6, xã Vinh L?c A, Bình Chánh TP.HCM, Di?n tho?i 0907153111



In English please? :/


.. oh and welcome to the forum. ;)

[Humber]

Did the FBI drop the ball ?
Boston bomber: FBI 'dropped the ball' over Tamerlan Tsarnaev - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10008638/Boston-bomber-FBI-dropped-the-ball-over-Tamerlan-Tsarnaev.html)

[BDunnell]

Did the FBI drop the ball ?
Boston bomber: FBI 'dropped the ball' over Tamerlan Tsarnaev - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10008638/Boston-bomber-FBI-dropped-the-ball-over-Tamerlan-Tsarnaev.html)

Most interesting if true.

[BDunnell]

Somebody pass the popcorn... Fousto's back :laugh:

And he's out of medication.

[BDunnell]

I will not even dignify this with a reply. Please--do not respond to any of my posts again. You have my word that I will not respond to any of yours.

Even though, despite a bit of a diatribe in the first two paragraphs, the third one makes a very valid point?

[keysersoze]

Even though, despite a bit of a diatribe in the first two paragraphs, the third one makes a very valid point?

Obviously, you don't understand my English. I'll type slower:

I-will-not-respond-to-that-post.

[BDunnell]

Obviously, you don't understand my English. I'll type slower:

I-will-not-respond-to-that-post.

Will you respond to the same point about the classification of the suspect as an armed enemy combatant if someone else poses it in a post not containing a similar diatribe, then? Or would you just prefer to ignore that issue altogether?

[anthonyvop]

As always, those who are most enthusiastic about having guns are those one would least trust with them.

Considering it is because of people like me you can spew your jealous idiocy I would prefer you just worry about yourself and stop meddling in other people's lives instead of the thank you that you owe us.

[ShiftingGears]

I will not even dignify this with a reply. Please--do not respond to any of my posts again. You have my word that I will not respond to any of yours.

American interference in the Middle East, starting with installing the Shah in Iran in 1953, is what predominantly breeds hatred towards the US from the Middle East and by Muslims. Not Muslims hating American freedoms. I don't think it is something that should remain unsaid.

[Starter]

American interference in the Middle East, starting with installing the Shah in Iran in 1953, is what predominantly breeds hatred towards the US from the Middle East and by Muslims. Not Muslims hating American freedoms. I don't think it is something that should remain unsaid.
Our unquestioning support of Israel, when they turned from being the victim and began stealing others land, hasn't helped the situation much either.

[Gregor-y]

Historically I wish US had taken better advantage of the Non-Aligned Movement. After coming to Nasser's rescue over the Suez we could't agree on anything else with the Soviets, even obvious values like ending the colonial system our own country was the model of breaking. Even in this day and age some Republicans have labeled the President with the term 'anit-colonial' to play to some very old red-scare terms only very old people would understand, let alone follow. Would our influence have changed Nasser's policies, changing his response to the original Muslim Brotherhood (or even changing what the Brotherhood at the time wanted to achieve)? That gets tricky, though. It's too easy to claim a single event would change everything else.

However, we didn't start giving Israel blank checks (or Iran, for that matter) until Nixon was president. Another thing to blame on the guy.

[Spafranco]

Most interesting if true.

Unfortunately, it is true. I can see the President being blamed for this as was Janet Reno/Bill Clinton for Waco where a whacko (sic) was to be served a

warrant and instead of complying decided to open fire on the ATF agents (federal agents).

Right there and then the right wing element went all out to attack Reno, Clinton and the ATF. Three agents killed.

Here is the issue which is quite disturbing in my opinion. Why would the right wing and some on the left support certain actions which were A/ Illegal,

B/ Traitorous. When a US citizen has all types of weapons, holds countless people hostage including children and some elderly it appears that some

gravitate to the second amendment. Has anyone really, I mean really read what the 2nd amendment says. It quite clearly stated that it was for militia

purposes and the need for people, if one reads deeper into the reality of that time, it was necessary to have a gun to conduct even the most mundane

of exercises.Gathering wood, getting food and protection against the Native Americans who were going to take your scalp if that could be attained.

So, we have those who do not see the illogical arguments they make and accept everything thrown at them based upon their ideology.

ATF, Reno,Clinton wrong. Koresh correct, even though he had a small armory, killed three agents and refused to come out or let the people go.

I would bet that the Stockholm Syndrome was part of all of this.

Do agencies make mistakes and large ones at that not to mention an administration ignoring threats to the nation. This has happened and is fact.

This news pertaining to Tamerlan Tsarnaev is true and sadly appears to have been known that he was erratic in his behavior and thus should have been

known immediately. Do you think/believe that it's possible that the agency mentioned knew immediately who it was and rather than admit to

incompetence decided to play it out to save face? Hard to know but not something I would place a bet on.

[Starter]

Unfortunately, it is true. I can see the President being blamed for this as was Janet Reno/Bill Clinton for Waco where a whacko (sic) was to be served a

warrant and instead of complying decided to open fire on the ATF agents (federal agents).

Right there and then the right wing element went all out to attack Reno, Clinton and the ATF. Three agents killed.

Here is the issue which is quite disturbing in my opinion. Why would the right wing and some on the left support certain actions which were A/ Illegal,

B/ Traitorous. When a US citizen has all types of weapons, holds countless people hostage including children and some elderly.........
Rewriting history. From wikipedia:
"The incident began when the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Alcohol,_Tobacco,_Firearms_and_Explosive s) (ATF) attempted to raid the ranch. An intense gun battle erupted, resulting in the deaths of four agents and six Branch Davidians. Upon the ATF's failure to raid the compound, a siege was initiated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Bureau_of_Investigation) (FBI), the standoff lasting 51 days. Eventually, the FBI launched an assault and initiated a tear gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tear_gas) attack in an attempt to force the Branch Davidians out. During the attack, a fire engulfed Mount Carmel Center and 76 men, women, and children,[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_Siege#cite_note-8)[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_Siege#cite_note-Gennaro_Maahs-9) including David Koresh, died."

Show me where anyone was held hostage. Those people were willing participants - wacko cultists, but still willing participants. That still does not excuse the overwelming use of force by the government. There was no reason to stage a full scale military assualt. Those folks weren't going anywhere.


....it appears that some gravitate to the second amendment. Has anyone really, I mean really read what the 2nd amendment says. It quite clearly stated that it was for militia
purposes and the need for people, if one reads deeper into the reality of that time, it was necessary to have a gun to conduct even the most mundane
of exercises.Gathering wood, getting food and protection against the Native Americans who were going to take your scalp if that could be attained.
So, we have those who do not see the illogical arguments they make and accept everything thrown at them based upon their ideology.
Your opinion of the second amendment does not correspond with that of the Supreme Court which, several times, has decided otherwise.


This news pertaining to Tamerlan Tsarnaev is true and sadly appears to have been known that he was erratic in his behavior and thus should have been known immediately. Do you think/believe that it's possible that the agency mentioned knew immediately who it was and rather than admit to incompetence decided to play it out to save face? Hard to know but not something I would place a bet on.
I would be hard pressed to find a more ignorant statement. While the FBI, it seems, could have been more diligent in tracking Tamerlan, it does not follow that they would have immediately known he was the perpetrator.

[SGWilko]

And he's out of medication.

I reckon he's simply developed an immunity to it.......

[ioan]

As is evident with the comments regarding Islam, not all Europeans are an issue just those, like you, who apparently does not read the posts that

constantly demean the people of the United States.

To anyone with a modicum of intelligence, the reaction as a result of the fear perpetrated by these two men who have taken advantage of

what the US offers but in particular what this small town within the city of Boston felt. People in a closely knit community reacted as any people will

when confronted with people like these two were responsible for the horrific death and injury perpetrated on the people of Watertown, Boston and the

US. So, give us a little latitude and give us a few moments of comfort amidst the fear these people felt all week.


The fear is perpetrated by your government and the mass media not by a dead man and one who just woke up from coma.
Shutting down a whole city in order to search for a wounded person is not normal, they did it to increase the fear of the plebe.

[ioan]

Once again akin to the post that followed this by Ioan you jump at the chance to make a conclusion based on either the lack of education in the US or

the political slant of what certain posts state.

What Starter has said is absolutely correct. Where have you seen the outrage (within the Muslim community)and condemnation of the attacks by these

two who without a doubt are and were Muslim.


Do we know if this was a religion motivated act of terror?
If not why would the Muslims condemn the act? Why should they put themselves in the spotlight if it has nothing to do with them or their religion?

[ioan]

Tell us which country you are speaking of? Comparing an other country apparently within the western world is a very bold and serious statement to make in the current climate.

Are you seriously asking for an answer to a rhetoric question?

[ioan]

Quite a few Americans? Where? The media,forums or those you know? Certainly I'm sure it would be quite easy for one to find such people in Europe.

So, how many did you find?



You would have to agree, correct?

Why should one agree to an unfounded claim? Just because you use the word 'certainly'?



Not all Europeans would be able to name all of the former satellite countries of Russia or those seeking independence. Could you?

Ofcourse we would, we've learned about them.

[ioan]

You don't know much about the American film industry, which is highly critical of conservative politics. The violence I will grant you, but that mostly a red herring argument.

Your last statement is pure b.s.--you must be buying what your media is feeding you.

I am not buying anything because I do not listen to any specific media, I always read all available credible sources and make up my mind based on an overview of the situation.

[ioan]

I will not even dignify this with a reply.

Cause there is nothing rational you can come up with against his point? Good choice.

[henners88]

American interference in the Middle East, starting with installing the Shah in Iran in 1953, is what predominantly breeds hatred towards the US from the Middle East and by Muslims. Not Muslims hating American freedoms. I don't think it is something that should remain unsaid.
Offering the Shah exile when he was over thrown created many hostage situations too. They should have stayed well out of it.

[ioan]

Ben I think you suffer from severe phobiaholicism. Anything you can't rationalize is a phobia. There are many levels of education and many areas of education and you as well as others fall short in many areas. This includes your "little dick holder from Romania" If you feel your education level is too superior for this forum then you should probably move on. I think it is you that is having a education problem on this forum. Quite frankly this is actually a racing forum and chit chat just brings together some cutural interchange that you continually try to inject phobias into. Get over it.

Our lil' redneck came out of the woods again to give us a nice example of the great culture to be found in his great country, while at the same time questioning other people's level of education. Good one! :rotflmao:

[ioan]

Considering it is because of people like me you can spew your jealous idiocy I would prefer you just worry about yourself and stop meddling in other people's lives instead of the thank you that you owe us.

Could you point out in what way did you help humanity to such great achievements as freedom of speech?
Was it by allegedly smuggling a gun on a flight to Europe?

[ioan]

Our unquestioning support of Israel, when they turned from being the victim and began stealing others land, hasn't helped the situation much either.

Yep.

[keysersoze]

This is why I don't run my mouth before I have the facts:

Boston Marathon bomb suspect charged with using weapon of mass destruction - U.S. News (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/22/17860373-boston-marathon-bomb-suspect-charged-with-using-weapon-of-mass-destruction?lite)

[Roamy]

Our lil' redneck came out of the woods again to give us a nice example of the great culture to be found in his great country, while at the same time questioning other people's level of education. Good one! :rotflmao:


Hey ioan just because I want to date Jennifer Lopez and you want to date leonardo DiCaprio doesn't necessarily make me a redneck :)

[Starter]

I am not buying anything because I do not listen to any specific media, I always read all available credible sources and make up my mind based on an overview of the situation.
Define "credible sources". :p :D

[Spafranco]

Rewriting history. From wikipedia:
"The incident began when the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Alcohol,_Tobacco,_Firearms_and_Explosive s) (ATF) attempted to raid the ranch. An intense gun battle erupted, resulting in the deaths of four agents and six Branch Davidians. Upon the ATF's failure to raid the compound, a siege was initiated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Bureau_of_Investigation) (FBI), the standoff lasting 51 days. Eventually, the FBI launched an assault and initiated a tear gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tear_gas) attack in an attempt to force the Branch Davidians out. During the attack, a fire engulfed Mount Carmel Center and 76 men, women, and children,[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_Siege#cite_note-8)[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_Siege#cite_note-Gennaro_Maahs-9) including David Koresh, died."

Show me where anyone was held hostage. Those people were willing participants - wacko cultists, but still willing participants. That still does not excuse the overwelming use of force by the government. There was no reason to stage a full scale military assualt. Those folks weren't going anywhere.


Your opinion of the second amendment does not correspond with that of the Supreme Court which, several times, has decided otherwise.


I would be hard pressed to find a more ignorant statement. While the FBI, it seems, could have been more diligent in tracking Tamerlan, it does not follow that they would have immediately known he was the perpetrator.

Ignorant statement? Well excuse me Mr Starter. I find it really interesting coming from you the person who banned others for using an * to infer but not use as a letter that you would even have the audacity to state that an opinion was ignorant when you have not the slightest knowledge of how these types of operations work and the manner in which they are kept. So please, keep idiotic opinion to yourself. You want to ask me if I know anything about these things?

The Supreme court with Scalia certainly does a disservice to the people of this country as do the representatives who voted against the overwhelmingly desired will of 90% of the people last week. Makes me believe that Officer Currie would still be alive if not for the easily attained weapons that were used to shoot him. Go on and feel contempt for anyone that would like to really feel safe walking the streets without some jackass shooting because I have a hoodie or the wrong skin color.

Waco? You seem to have deliberately used a source that was in your favor: Below is the actual events of day one and the reason YOU should be appalled as any American. Why are you taking the side of a guy responsible for the deaths of how many????

On the morning of Sunday, February 28, 1993, agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) attempted to serve an arrest warrant for Vernon Howell, a/k/a David Koresh, and a search warrant at the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas. The arrest warrant charged Koresh with unlawful possession of a destructive device, in violation of 26 United States Code, section 5845(f). Both the search warrant and the arrest warrant were signed by a United States Magistrate Judge. The search warrant authorized a search of the premises of the 77 acre compound located at Route 7, Box 47-B (a/k/a The Mount Carmel Center), Waco, Texas for evidence relating to the unlawful possession of fully automatic machine guns and destructive devices. While attempting to serve these warrants, ATF agents came under heavy gunfire from individuals in the compound. As a result, four ATF agents were killed and fifteen wounded.

[Spafranco]

The fear is perpetrated by your government and the mass media not by a dead man and one who just woke up from coma.
Shutting down a whole city in order to search for a wounded person is not normal, they did it to increase the fear of the plebe.

Dribble and hogwash. Go away.

[Spafranco]

Do we know if this was a religion motivated act of terror?
If not why would the Muslims condemn the act? Why should they put themselves in the spotlight if it has nothing to do with them or their religion?
Ummm, care to bet if it probably had or had not?

[Spafranco]

Are you seriously asking for an answer to a rhetoric question?

My Ioan, although I am sure you meant rhetorical question. That is twice you have use the same reason for posting as you did. Do you even understand what rhetorical means and how it should be used?
The question I asked was meant to convey to you based upon your previous post what may have seemed obvious to was not for everyone. If you want to name the United States of America as being your target then do so. Don't be a wuss hiding behind verbiage that is unclear.

When you reply with honesty, then I will respond.

[Spafranco]

"children who left the Branch Davidian cult compound said David Koresh gave girls as young as 11 plastic Stars of David that signified they were ready to have sex with him. Today's New York Times, quoting therapists working with surviving cult children, said Koresh also told youngsters to call their parents "dogs" and only he was to be referred to as their father.
The cult's compound in Waco, Texas, the therapists said, became "a misguided paramilitary community" in which sex, violence, fear, love and religion were all intertwined. The children held captive by both parents and Koresh."

[markabilly]

Can not remember what this tread is about? Got to go stumbling off on rabbit trails without a clue? Perhaps this will help. http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/5170aa69ecad04b24a00001e-660-495-630-/boston-28.jpg Richard Martin, his sister to the left, in green shirt who lost her leg, and the bomb is also circled, along with the younger brother-bomber with his smiling face standing behind them.

[henners88]

Spafranco, how do you know Starter banned others? Starter hasn't been a moderator during your time here, has he?

[pino]

Guys, keep it on topic and quit personal comments/insults or I close it !

[markabilly]

So the heat is being turned up by the media and others on the FBI. Essentially, they are blaming the FBI rather than the criminals for the blast. So much for holding criminals responsible for what they do.

I see no way that the FBI has the resources to be tracking each possible suspect that someone thinks might be a radical or nutcase of some sort to prevent the possibility that they may go crazy and actually hurt someone.

When such preventive measures have been done in the past, some holler it is racial and religous profiling in violation of civil rights.


CNN is says heat is on FBI.....

Heat is on FBI over handling of bombing suspect - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/22/politics/boston-bombings-fbi)

First CNN says that a Congreesman blamed the FBI for failing to prevent the bombing, but later:Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) on Sunday declared that the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) was at fault for failing to prevent last week’s bombing in Boston.
In an interview on CNN’s State of the Union, host Candy Crowley noted that the FBI had intervewed deceased bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev in 2011, but wondered if it was fair to blame the agency for not anticipating something that happened two years later. Lindsey Graham blames FBI for Boston bombing: (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/21/lindsey-graham-blames-fbi-for-boston-bombing-the-ball-was-dropped/)



bombing the result of an intelligence failure?
Was Boston Marathon bombing a US 'intelligence failure'? - CSMonitor.com (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/2013/0423/Was-Boston-Marathon-bombing-a-US-intelligence-failure)


There was this, which is more accurate:



Boehner, an Ohio Republican said authorities have to walk “a fine line” that takes account of civil liberties.
“If you are in America and you have a legal status, you’re protected by American rights,” Boehner said. “It’s a fine line that they have to walk, and we’re going to have to make a determination how well they walked that line.”
The FBI’s investigation of the information from Russia followed the attorney general’s guidelines for probing possible terror suspects, according to a person familiar with the matter who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the continuing investigation. Those guidelines lay out what authorities are allowed to do to investigate suspects based on the level of evidence they have.
The FBI searched intelligence and criminal databases on the suspect and conducted interviews, the person said. The findings of those inquiries didn’t suggest anything suspicious. As a result, investigators couldn’t obtain warrants for wiretaps or take other investigative steps under the guidelines, the person said. The guidelines are designed to protect civil liberties.
Russia Trip The current FBI-led investigation is paying close attention to a six-month trip Tsarnaev took to Russia in early 2012.
Tsarnaev was in the U.S. travel screening database known as the Treasury Enforcement Communications System, according to the two law-enforcement officials. The addition to the screening system is a routine occurrence when the FBI reviews individuals, the officials said, confirming that Tsarnaev’s name was misspelled on the Aeroflot passenger manifest for the flight from New York’s John F. Kennedy Airport to Russia.
FBI Handling of Russia Boston Bomber Tip Draws Scrutiny - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-22/fbi-handling-of-russia-boston-bomber-tip-draws-scrutiny.html)

[Spafranco]

Spafranco, how do you know Starter banned others? Starter hasn't been a moderator during your time here, has he?

Why are you sticking your nose into something like a little kid when it should be very obvious why. I will indulge you with the obvious. I was not a member. You know, like the majority that view this formum.

[pino]

Why are you sticking your nose into something like a little kid when it should be very obvious why. I will indulge you with the obvious. I was not a member. You know, like the majority that view this formum.


Guys, keep it on topic and quit personal comments/insults or I close it !

Spafranco, what part of the above post you don't understand ? :rolleyes:

[D-Type]

Guys, keep it on topic and quit personal comments/insults or I close it !
Can I endorse that comment.
This thread covers a very serious topic. It is not the place for trying to score cheap political points, deliver personal insults, start or continue squabbles and the like. Some members seem to be overlooking this and appear to trying to see how far they can push the envelope.
No modersator likes to close a thread or issue a ban, but if his hand is forced ....

[Bagwan]

So , meanwhile , here in Canada , we've just had what has been called , a "major terrorist threat" , thwarted by the RCMP , as they just arrested two guys , one in Toronto , the other in Montreal , over what was said to be a plot to bomb a VIA Rail train in Toronto .
As they deal with the terrorist threat down in Boston , we have one here as well , and , rather obviously ironic is a debate in the Canadian house of commons in Ottawa , over the new anti-terrorism laws .

[sandokan]

We in Czech Republic are very sorry, that many media in US informed, that the agressors are comming from our Country...

[henners88]

We in Czech Republic are very sorry, that many media in US informed, that the agressors are comming from our Country...
Indeed, it must have been frustrating.

Czech Republic Forced to Remind the Internet That Chechnya Is in Different Country After Boston Bombing | TIME.com (http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/04/23/czech-republic-forced-to-remind-the-internet-that-chechnya-is-a-different-country-after-boston-bombing/)

[sandokan]

Indeed, it must have been frustrating.

Yes it is. You know, it was cleared in many media, but the bad name remained...

[donKey jote]

but the bad name remained...
bit like Budweiser :p :andrea:

[sandokan]

:D

[markabilly]

So , meanwhile , here in Canada , we've just had what has been called , a "major terrorist threat" , thwarted by the RCMP , as they just arrested two guys , one in Toronto , the other in Montreal , over what was said to be a plot to bomb a VIA Rail train in Toronto .
As they deal with the terrorist threat down in Boston , we have one here as well , and , rather obviously ironic is a debate in the Canadian house of commons in Ottawa , over the new anti-terrorism laws .


I am not sure at all that the laws make much difference. What seems to be most effective is thorugh investigations, watching suspects and gathering information.

Unfortunately, there is a limit as to resources for that sort of thing.

[D-Type]

I am not sure at all that the laws make much difference. What seems to be most effective is thorugh investigations, watching suspects and gathering information.

Unfortunately, there is a limit as to resources for that sort of thing.
In Europe state surveillance actions are restricted by human rights legislation which was introduced after WW2 as a reaction against the actions of Hitler's regime, in particular the Gestapo

[ioan]

My Ioan, although I am sure you meant rhetorical question. That is twice you have use the same reason for posting as you did. Do you even understand what rhetorical means and how it should be used?
The question I asked was meant to convey to you based upon your previous post what may have seemed obvious to was not for everyone. If you want to name the United States of America as being your target then do so. Don't be a wuss hiding behind verbiage that is unclear.

When you reply with honesty, then I will respond.

Ofcourse I was talking about the US of A. Your turn.

[ioan]

In Europe state surveillance actions are restricted by human rights legislation which was introduced after WW2 as a reaction against the actions of Hitler's regime, in particular the Gestapo

Some just can't learn from other people's mistakes.

[anthonyvop]

For my European Friends.

Welcome to the jungle

European Muslims Traveling to Syria to Fight 'Holy War' (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/04/29/Syria-rebels-Europe)

Just wait till they filter back.

[ioan]

Hey ioan just because I want to date Jennifer Lopez and you want to date leonardo DiCaprio doesn't necessarily make me a redneck :)

J Lo?! Awwwwwww DiCaprio would be indeed a better choice, though I personally prefer Penelope Cruz.
De gustibus non est disputandum, but stil, J Lo?! :s

[D-Type]

For my European Friends.

Welcome to the jungle

European Muslims Traveling to Syria to Fight 'Holy War' (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/04/29/Syria-rebels-Europe)

Just wait till they filter back.
Don't forget that in Britain we have suffered at the hands of a US-funded terrorist organisation , the IRA

[Starter]

Don't forget that in Britain we have suffered at the hands of a US-funded terrorist organisation , the IRA
Lets make the distinction between a government funded thing and one by private citizens when you say "US-funded".

[anthonyvop]

Don't forget that in Britain we have suffered at the hands of a US-funded terrorist organisation , the IRA


Ad-hominem & Tu quoque

Double barreled Left wing deflection of the topic........Lame.

[Rollo]

Lets make the distinction between a government funded thing and one by private citizens when you say "US-funded".

Yes lets:
Search Results | CIA FOIA (foia.cia.gov) (http://www.foia.cia.gov/search-results?search_api_views_fulltext=IRA&field_collection=)
IRA SUPPORT FROM FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS
Doc No/ESDN: CIA-RDP80M01048A001100020065-9
Pages: 2
No document available for download

How er... convenient.

Probably the CIA was funding the IRA in much the same way as they're funding currently Karzai in Afghanistan. The theory can't be proven but equally can't be disproven either.

Funding could have easily flowed to the IRA via NORAID; funding to NORAID could have just as easily flowed from the CIA through private citizens as well. Proving anything either way would be impossible now considering that most financial records would have been destroyed a long time ago.

[anthonyvop]

Pages: 2
No document available for download[/i]



Probably the CIA was funding the IRA in much the same way as they're funding currently Karzai in Afghanistan. The theory can't be proven but equally can't be disproven either.


You have ZERO proof except your jealous hatred of the USA. Don't even try to claim it can't be "disproven".

The burden of proof lies 100% with the accuser. That is you. So either prove it or admit you are wrong and apologize.

[henners88]

You have ZERO proof except your jealous hatred of the USA. Don't even try to claim it can't be "disproven".

The burden of proof lies 100% with the accuser. That is you. So either prove it or admit you are wrong and apologize.
Whilst I don't doubt a minority of European and American born Muslims are flying out to Syria/Afghanistan to fight against our allies, I do have to laugh at how you dismiss others opinions and links here. You Tony posted nothing more than a blog on an entertainment news site for your version of 'proof'. Considering how serious the topic of this thread is, I really shouldn't be reduced to laugher when reading such ridiculous hypocritical contradictions. Its all too easy to accuse others of 'jealous hatred' of the USA and I see you use that a little too much in threads like this. I really don't understand why anyone would have hatred for your country or be jealous of it in all seriousness or why that would be relevant here.

[Starter]

Yes lets:
Search Results | CIA FOIA (foia.cia.gov) (http://www.foia.cia.gov/search-results?search_api_views_fulltext=IRA&field_collection=)
IRA SUPPORT FROM FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS
Doc No/ESDN: CIA-RDP80M01048A001100020065-9
Pages: 2
No document available for download

How er... convenient.

Probably the CIA was funding the IRA in much the same way as they're funding currently Karzai in Afghanistan. The theory can't be proven but equally can't be disproven either.

Funding could have easily flowed to the IRA via NORAID; funding to NORAID could have just as easily flowed from the CIA through private citizens as well. Proving anything either way would be impossible now considering that most financial records would have been destroyed a long time ago.
OK, I confess, you caught us. Just like Iraq was all about cheap oil for the US and Afghanistan is all about cheap opium; we sent millions of dollars to the IRA to assure a continuous supply of cheap potatoes for our citizens. Now that it's out in the open, please try not to hate us.

[BDunnell]

The burden of proof lies 100% with the accuser.

I'm glad the justice system doesn't work that way. Do you think it should?

[BDunnell]

Considering how serious the topic of this thread is, I really shouldn't be reduced to laugher when reading such ridiculous hypocritical contradictions.

Oh, don't feel bad about it. Tony is a delightful source of ongoing amusement.

[anthonyvop]

I'm glad the justice system doesn't work that way. Do you think it should?

Are you serious? Of course it does!

In any Legitimate court of law the accuser has to prove guilt. The accused only has to defend.

[Starter]

Are you serious? Of course it does!

In any Legitimate court of law the accuser has to prove guilt. The accused only has to defend.
Not in BDunnell's world where it's only necessary to offend his sensibilities in order to be proven guilty.

[keysersoze]

Here is what Muslim extremists want to do to innocent westerners. Please note, not the benign Muslims, just the bad ones.

Be fore-warned, these photos of the Bostom bombing are explicit and, for some, too disturbing to view.

Boston Bomb Blasts (http://cryptome.org/2013-info/04/boston-bombs/boston-bombs.htm)

[BDunnell]

Here is what Muslim extremists want to do to innocent westerners. Please note, not the benign Muslims, just the bad ones.

Be fore-warned, these photos of the Bostom bombing are explicit and, for some, too disturbing to view.

Boston Bomb Blasts (http://cryptome.org/2013-info/04/boston-bombs/boston-bombs.htm)

I am sure that graphic photos of the damage done to civilians by American weapons in numerous conflicts would make equally unpleasant viewing (not that I have clicked on the link as I have no desire to see what are probably extremely intrusive pictures.)

[BDunnell]

Are you serious? Of course it does!

I am referring to the fact that the accusations get investigated not solely by the accuser him/herself, but by the police.

[BDunnell]

Not in BDunnell's world where it's only necessary to offend his sensibilities in order to be proven guilty.

See my comment above.

To think you used to be a moderator.

[henners88]

Here is what Muslim extremists want to do to innocent westerners. Please note, not the benign Muslims, just the bad ones.

Be fore-warned, these photos of the Bostom bombing are explicit and, for some, too disturbing to view.

Boston Bomb Blasts (http://cryptome.org/2013-info/04/boston-bombs/boston-bombs.htm)
As BDunnell says there are no doubt graphic photo's of innocent Muslims caught up in conflicts to which they don't invite that tell an equally distressing story. As westerners we find it difficult to relate when its not happening in our own countries. The Boston bombing much like the London, and Madrid bombings was out of the ordinary so we tend to give it way more attention than say a suicide bombing in Baghdad that kills 100 or so innocent civilians who are also not Islamic extremists. I wouldn't condone terrorism on any countries soil, but we only seem to act or become outraged when it happens to us. The accidental deaths and collateral damage we cause abroad when carrying out our military strikes aren't as good for the voters here, but then there are groups who feel they have a duty to react. Terrorism isn't going away and if only we could actually come up with a proactive way of tackling it instead of inviting it with idiotic foreign policy.

[anthonyvop]

I am referring to the fact that the accusations get investigated not solely by the accuser him/herself, but by the police.


In a criminal trial the State(Police and prosecutors) are the accusers. Don't they even pretend to have justice system over where you live? To keep people like you placated by saying how they are fair and unbiased.

[anthonyvop]

Not in BDunnell's world where it's only necessary to offend his sensibilities in order to be proven guilty.

Or worse.....Prove how she is wrong. In her reality that is a crime against humanity.

[donKey jote]

The Boston bombing much like the London, and Madrid bombings
I wouldn't really mention Boston, London and Madrid in the same sentence... the Boston bombings were probably just the work of a couple of deranged kids with pressure cookers and gunpowder, as opposed to the more organised attacks in London and Madrid.
Otherwise I agree :)