Stirling Moss - Women lack mental aptitude for F1

[wedge]

BBC Sport - Sir Stirling Moss says women lack mental aptitude for Formula 1 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22083547)

[D28]

It would be interesting to hear Desire Wilson's views, as she has actually won a F1 race, though not mentioned by BBC Sport.
Mentioning Danica Patrick as arguably the most successful woman currently racing, is just that. There has to be others who have won more than 1 professional race still competing.
Simona de Silvestro won 4 times in Formula Atlantic if that counts as a professional series, there must be others.

[BDunnell]

It should be no surprise that an old man holds reactionary views about women. In fact, I wonder what value the BBC thought his perspective would bring when they asked him to contribute. Maybe they should have asked him why women don't have the aptitude for F1 when, as his late sister proved, they can for rallying.

In truth, his view has been out of date for more than 30 years. Desire Wilson surely proved that a woman can mix it with the men if given a chance. While she didn't have the F1 World Championship opportunities she deserved, her pace in sportscars is enough for me.

[Nem14]

I'm sorry, but the British Formula One Series Desiree Wilson won a race in used second hand F1 cars and was not the worldwide, top level, F1 series.
British Formula One Series - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Formula_One_Series)

[Ranger]

Indeed that's a pretty stupid opinion.

Women can and have succeeded in motorsport already, and F1 will only be a matter of time.

http://www.mightymotormedia.com/images/race4change/drivers/Fabrizia-Pons-Michele-Mouton.jpg

[D28]

I'm sorry, but the British Formula One Series Desiree Wilson won a race in used second hand F1 cars and was not the worldwide, top level, F1 series.
British Formula One Series - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Formula_One_Series)
None the less, Sir Sterling Moss is wrong.

The pure statement is wins in F1 period; actually Moss probably is aware of Wilson's win, just ignored it. She also won in World Prototypes and at one point had a deal for a drive in WC F1 which fell through for various reasons, none of which was driving talent. Arguably she is one of the most successful woman drivers, certainly more so than D. Patrick, and that is the point.

[SGWilko]

Not having experienced what it takes to win in F1, I don't feel qualified to judge Moss' comments. History, the fact that to date, no female driver has successfully run a camapign in F1 speaks volumes IMO.

Personally, I think women have the mental capacity and the physical fitness for F1, but lack the killer instinct - unless of course you can run the season around her menstrual cycle in which case she'll wipe the floor with the men!!!!

;)

[Zico]

He's maybe guilty of making a mass generalisation as there are clearly some very talented women drivers out there but that said, I can kinda see where he's coming from on a general level. Admittedly I'm not the best passenger in the world, of all the women I've ever had the pleasure of being with in the passenger seat of a car there has only been one female who has not made me fearful or frustrated at all and want to beg to be allowed to take over driving duties. :/

On the other hand does anyone else think that most women probably lack the physical strength and stamina required for F1?

[Ranger]

History, the fact that to date, no female driver has successfully run a camapign in F1 speaks volumes IMO.

Correlation does not imply causation.

Just because they are female does not mean it is the reason none have succeeded in F1.

[henners88]

Having read this article this morning I've resisted bringing it up in any of the threads. Stirling's opinion is out of date, but he's entitled to share it as anybody is. Opinions like this will always cause outrage in this day and age for obvious reasons. I can't think of anything else to say on this really?

I hope to see Susie next season on the grid. It would be nice to see her prove the doubters wrong.

[BDunnell]

The pure statement is wins in F1 period; actually Moss probably is aware of Wilson's win, just ignored it. She also won in World Prototypes and at one point had a deal for a drive in WC F1 which fell through for various reasons, none of which was driving talent. Arguably she is one of the most successful woman drivers, certainly more so than D. Patrick, and that is the point.

Exactly. No-one aware of how good she was in sportscars would ever deny Wilson's ability.

[BDunnell]

Personally, I think women have the mental capacity and the physical fitness for F1, but lack the killer instinct

There's no evidence of that when it comes to women serving in the armed forces, for a start.

[BDunnell]

Indeed that's a pretty stupid opinion.

Women can and have succeeded in motorsport already, and F1 will only be a matter of time.

http://www.mightymotormedia.com/images/race4change/drivers/Fabrizia-Pons-Michele-Mouton.jpg

Perhaps ironically, there's a driver I don't think was as good relative to the men as was Moss' own sister.

[Koz]

The only way to change his opinion is to prove him wrong.

And I really hope we see Susie Wolff in a at least a race.
But this I don't think the chances are there anymore. She is too old to have a career, and with her husband taking over Mercedes chances are next to nil.

Is it wrong to hope that the Pastor gets a stomach bug for next race weekend? :D

[Koz]

There's no evidence of that when it comes to women serving in the armed forces, for a start.

Bad argument, women aren't allowed to be in combat roles.
[With the exception of Israel, I believe]

[ArrowsFA1]

Perhaps it would be accurate to say that some people lack mental aptitude for Formula 1. It's not something that's unique to women.

[BDunnell]

Bad argument, women aren't allowed to be in combat roles.
[With the exception of Israel, I believe]

The UK and US, to name but two, have women serving as front-line combat pilots.

[schmenke]

Canada has had women serving in front line combat for some time now.
The U.S. pentagon has recently announced that women will be eligible for ground combat roles as of 2016.

[D-Type]

Whatever the reason, the fact remains that no woman has succeeeded at the highest level in motor sport, namely the Formula 1 World Championship.
Desiree Wilson's single F1 win was in a secondary series.
Rallying is a different discipline from racing. To a large extent you are racing against the clock, as opposed to physically racing against other drivers.
This has been discussed at length on another forum and the nearest to a consensus is to recognise that the number of women competing in motor sport at any level is significantly fewer than men so the lack of success at the highest levels is not statistically significant. But all this really does is change the question from "Why aren't more women successful?" to "Why don't more women compete in motor sport?" without offering an answer.

[bontebempo]

think he is right

[Koz]

The UK and US, to name but two, have women serving as front-line combat pilots.

You are right about that, my thoughts went straight to the infantry, but yes, pilots are much more relevant to this discussion.

[CNR]

http://www.motorsportforums.com/f1/157831-formula-1-driver-manager-consultant-signs-female-red-bull-junior-team.html#post1122377

[CNR]

old man old man losing his mind he was beaten by a woman driver
Maria Teresa de Filippis is a former Italian racing driver noted as being the first woman to race in Formula One. She participated in five World Championship Grands Prix, debuting on 18 May 1958, but scored no championship points Maria Teresa de Filippis Belgian 15 Jun 1958 Maserati 19 10th place (Stirling Moss Belgian 15 Jun 1958 Vanwall 9 Ret) List of female Formula One drivers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_Formula_One_drivers) Formula 1® - The Official F1® Website (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/1958/)

[Ranger]

In truth, his view has been out of date for more than 30 years.

Not the only dated opinion of his:

'I don't want a poofter to play me in a film': Sir Stirling Moss is embroiled in homophobia row after 'offensive' comments - Home News - UK - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/i-dont-want-a-poofter-to-play-me-in-a-film-sir-stirling-moss-is-embroiled-in-homophobia-row-after-offensive-comments-8534236.html)

[ShiftingGears]

Exactly. No-one aware of how good she was in sportscars would ever deny Wilson's ability.

I think there is a difference between having ability and whether it is enough to be competitive in F1, where it is primarily about out-and-out pace. For the people mentioning Mouton, I think it is a different scenario simply because you could beat your teammates by several minutes without actually being faster than them.

Is it really any different to someone claiming that women are inherently inferior to men in any other sports (which any comparison between male and female divisions of professional sport will demonstrate)?

[Tazio]

It should be no surprise that an old man holds reactionary views about women. In fact, I wonder what value the BBC thought his perspective would bring when they asked him to contribute. Maybe they should have asked him why women don't have the aptitude for F1 when, as his late sister proved, they can for rallying.

Totally this :up:

[D28]

I think there is a difference between having ability and whether it is enough to be competitive in F1, where it is primarily about out-and-out pace. For the people mentioning Mouton, I think it is a different scenario simply because you could beat your teammates by several minutes without actually being faster than them...

i'm not sure I understand this. Mouton won Plikes Peak outright and to do so she would have to be faster than any of her rivals. I don't follow rallying closely, but I am aware of her explots, and believe she was fastest on many occasions.

[A FONDO]

Women - in the kitchen !

[The Black Knight]

Does Stirling Moss not remember Michelle Mouton? One of the best rally drivers we've ever actually seen?

I'm sure some of you remember that I'm very much not a fan of Moss, however, it doesn't surprise me to see someone of his age come out with this sort of tripe. Sheds a light on a lot of the other rubbish he comes out with as well. I find him very inconsistent in his opinion as well, he tends to change it a lot.

Anyway, I believe women drivers can succeed in F1 and it is only a matter of time before the first woman driver does succeed in an F1 car. I am looking forward to this. Can you imagine how much more interest that will bring to the sport? The female audience will explode. It will be good days for F1 and whomever she will be shall deserve a lot of respect no matter how good or bad she is. Bring it on is what I say :)

[BDunnell]

Does Stirling Moss not remember Michelle Mouton? One of the best rally drivers we've ever actually seen?

Oh, now let's not go too far. She wouldn't be in my top 20.

[The Black Knight]

Oh, now let's not go too far. She wouldn't be in my top 20.

Stirling Moss regards Mouton as one of the best :) He said so before. Mind you, considering how inconsistent his opinion is it would come as no surprise to me if he has changed his stance on it.

[CNR]

it would be so hard for a women to cook and iron while driving an f1 car carrie bickmore Home - The Project (http://theprojecttv.com.au)

[BDunnell]

Stirling Moss regards Mouton as one of the best :) He said so before. Mind you, considering how inconsistent his opinion is it would come as no surprise to me if he has changed his stance on it.

How much does he know about rallying? There are at least 20 other drivers I'd rate ahead of Mouton, who I believe was not especially mechanically sympathetic in the Quattro. That said, her 1981 San Remo victory was very impressive.

[The Black Knight]

How much does he know about rallying? There are at least 20 other drivers I'd rate ahead of Mouton, who I believe was not especially mechanically sympathetic in the Quattro. That said, her 1981 San Remo victory was very impressive.

There were a lot of people who could not handle those Group B cars and she most definitely could. I personally would put her in the top 20 but I have a lot of admiration and respect for the woman, so maybe I'm a little biased ;)

If memory serves me her Quattro suffered several engine failures. Not much a driver can do about that :)

[BDunnell]

There were a lot of people who could not handle those Group B cars and she most definitely could. I personally would put her in the top 20 but I have a lot of admiration and respect for the woman, so maybe I'm a little biased ;)

So do I, but I don't think her prowess should be exaggerated.



If memory serves me her Quattro suffered several engine failures. Not much a driver can do about that :)

If you watch her driving Quattros over the years, her car hits the rev limiter far more than did those of Mikkola, Blomqvist, Röhrl and others. This may have been one reason.

[ShiftingGears]

i'm not sure I understand this. Mouton won Plikes Peak outright and to do so she would have to be faster than any of her rivals.

Yes, but I think it is fair to say your average Pikes Peak entry list isn't the greatest representation of rallying talent.

[airshifter]

I think Stirling is out of his time. Given that few women (when viewed as a percentage basis) have much interest in motorsports involvement, it's simply that skewed ratio that gives us few examples of excellence in women drivers.

When I was in the military (which has been quite some time now) I had women I served with that I would not hesitate to walk into combat with, nor hesitate to think that they could excel in quite a number of things if they desired.

[zako85]

If I read this correctly, Mr Moss believes that what it takes to succeed in F1 is being able to race aggressively wheel to wheel and disregarding your own safety. To be fair to Mr. Stirling Moss, we haven't seen many counter examples in F1 to his theory, have we? So his opinion still stands neither proved nor disproved. Personally, I think the issue boils down to the prevailing culture and its view to woman's place in the society. Little boys grow up playing with toy rally cars, cannons, and soldiers. Little girls grow up playing with barbie dolls, babies, and re-enactments of a marriage of a beautiful prince and princess. I hate those stereotypes. If I ever have a daughter, she will be playing with little rally cars, building lego airplanes, and driving karts by the age of eight ;p. Of course, this still doesn't mean I want my boys playing with Barbie doll. lol.

[Malbec]

Not the only dated opinion of his:

'I don't want a poofter to play me in a film': Sir Stirling Moss is embroiled in homophobia row after 'offensive' comments - Home News - UK - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/i-dont-want-a-poofter-to-play-me-in-a-film-sir-stirling-moss-is-embroiled-in-homophobia-row-after-offensive-comments-8534236.html)

Or indeed his views about immigration.

I find Stirling Moss rather tiresome TBH and having read his opinions on a wide variety of topics both in and out of motorsport he isn't someone who's opinion I take seriously unlike some others of his generation.

[truefan72]

I wonder if Stirling moss refuse to board the plane if he sees a female pilot
lol

what an old coot
:rolleyes:

[big_sw2000]

i'm not sure I understand this. Mouton won Plikes Peak outright and to do so she would have to be faster than any of her rivals. I don't follow rallying closely, but I am aware of her explots, and believe she was fastest on many occasions.

If it was not for her dad being ill, and her flying home mid rally, last rally of the year, she would of been world champion.Steve

[D28]

Yes, but I think it is fair to say your average Pikes Peak entry list isn't the greatest representation of rallying talent.
True, but it would be representative of local PP specialists, guys who only competed at one event and who didn't especially appreciate being beaten by a French woman. That they were all beaten decisively by M. Mouton is even more impressive, IMO.

[SGWilko]

If I ever have a daughter, she will be playing with......

As the proud owner of a daughter, I can assure you that the toys she likes to play with are the ones she wants to play with, not the ones we think she ought to play with.

She'll play cars with her brother (when he is in a mood to let her), or she will pretend to be a horse, or she will have a tea party, or she will be a dog........

[SGWilko]

Or indeed his views about immigration.

I find Stirling Moss rather tiresome TBH and having read his opinions on a wide variety of topics both in and out of motorsport he isn't someone who's opinion I take seriously unlike some others of his generation.

One has to remember that Stirling is of another generation. Things move on, and the generations change societies perceptions.

He is stuck in his ways, and as he said in his interview, he was not intending to cause offence.

[BDunnell]

As the proud owner of a daughter, I can assure you that the toys she likes to play with are the ones she wants to play with, not the ones we think she ought to play with.

She'll play cars with her brother (when he is in a mood to let her), or she will pretend to be a horse, or she will have a tea party, or she will be a dog........

Well said.

[BDunnell]

If it was not for her dad being ill, and her flying home mid rally, last rally of the year, she would of been world champion.Steve

Really? 1982 was the year in which she narrowly finished second to Röhrl, and in the last two rounds she retired because of an accident (Ivory Coast) and finished second (RAC) respectively.

[SGWilko]

Well said.

Most of the time my daughter appears to be off with the fairies. She really is a proper airhead at times. But how nice it must be to not have a care in the world.... ;)

[D-Type]

If it was not for her dad being ill, and her flying home mid rally, last rally of the year, she would of been world champion.Steve

Does this come under what people mean by "lacking the single minded ruthless killer streak" or however they phrase it

[BDunnell]

Does this come under what people mean by "lacking the single minded ruthless killer streak" or however they phrase it

If the post in question was referring to Mouton, I'm not sure — as I said above — that it's accurate.

My recollection is that Mouton's father died before the championship-deciding Ivory Coast event.

[Bezza]

The female driver debate again!

I have absolutely no problem with women competing in F1 if they are good enough

Stirling Moss’s comments are stupid, they really are, and I don’t want to dwell on them.

The thing that bothers me though is all this about Susie Wolff.

Forget her gender, she raced in DTM for 7 years and scored a total of 4 points. She has not won a race at any level of competitive motorsport since Karting. This leads me to suggest that she is not good enough for F1. I can’t quite understand how she has ended up at Williams F1 and appears as a candidate for a race seat.

[BDunnell]

The female driver debate again!

I have absolutely no problem with women competing in F1 if they are good enough

Stirling Moss’s comments are stupid, they really are, and I don’t want to dwell on them.

The thing that bothers me though is all this about Susie Wolff.

Forget her gender, she raced in DTM for 7 years and scored a total of 4 points. She has not won a race at any level of competitive motorsport since Karting. This leads me to suggest that she is not good enough for F1. I can’t quite understand how she has ended up at Williams F1 and appears as a candidate for a race seat.

I agree completely.

[Knock-on]

The female driver debate again!

I have absolutely no problem with women competing in F1 if they are good enough

Correct. We have had some very poor male drivers in F1 because they can afford it so I wouldn't want a female in F1 just to be a figurehead but ultimately, be a liability.


Stirling Moss’s comments are stupid, they really are, and I don’t want to dwell on them.

I wouldn't say stupid but rather indicitive of a generation. Remember Mr Ecclestones comments about Kitchen Appliances. Still makes me laugh :laugh: It was right for the BBC to report it as it is relevant and I don't wnt a News Agency to just publish vanilla, thought deadening humdrum which they can do sometimes. Better to have something interesting to challenge views.


The thing that bothers me though is all this about Susie Wolff.

Forget her gender, she raced in DTM for 7 years and scored a total of 4 points. She has not won a race at any level of competitive motorsport since Karting. This leads me to suggest that she is not good enough for F1. I can’t quite understand how she has ended up at Williams F1 and appears as a candidate for a race seat.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQAP44MSMSgLhYqnNjYGj018xK_eECuA 5s3K6Kbp8E5H2eIbANm

It also helps to be married to Toto ;)

Women in F1 then. Where does one start?

First question is why there are not more women interested in Motorsport. Basically, being a Testosterone sport, it appeals more to us boys. Not all men like Motorsport and not all Motorsport fans are men but the majority of followers are blokes. Simples. Therefore, there is far smaller number of Women aspiring to be Racing drivers.

It's a simple fact of life that some things are going to appeal more to one sex more than the other and I think that getting dirty, covered in oil, breathing in fumes, being thrown around a hard race seet until your arms feel like lead, you're sweaty, blistered, beaten black and blue and feel like your head is being ripped off your shoulders is predominantly a male thing.

Then we have the Physical side. There is no reason whatsoever that a woman can't be a racer but physically they would have to prepare to higher physical condition to be on par with a man. Lets look at other Physical sports such as Tennis. You wouldn't consider it a fair challenge to put Serena Williams who is a mighty athlete against Roger Federer and expect her to win a game, let alone a set, would you?

Men versus Women Tennis (http://www.topendsports.com/sport/tennis/men-v-women.htm)

I don't think that Motorsport requires the same strengths and is more suited to endurance which is a womens strength but there is still the physicality, especially in series like F1.

The mentality of racing is the last point. I have taught hundreds of people, mostly amaturs with no racing experience, to race in a simulator. I have found that overall, men have the spacial awareness and aptitude to better learn the basics. They are predominatly more single minded and quicker. More often, the Ladies did not have quite as much of what for want of a better phrase, I will call the 'killer instinct'. This is something I put down to the testosterone effect if you like. Now, that's not to say that some women weren't excellent and beat the men but 9 times out of 10 it was the other way around. Strange, when it comes to doing simulated pit stops on a static car, women competed on a much more equal basis because they were calmer. The very fastest times were set by men (Tyres and Airguns are quite wieldy after all) but women were consistently in the top half of the times. Again, the Testosterone effect. The Ladies are calmer and can apply themselves without getting too excited which is the downfall of a lot of blokes when trying to do something simple, quickly.

So, in conclusion, there is no reason a woman cannot be a F1 driver but the odds are stacked against them a bit more. For a female to compete in F1 she would have to be performing at a higher physical level and be exceptionally talented than an equilivant man in my opinion.

[Garry Walker]

Canada has had women serving in front line combat for some time now.
The U.S. pentagon has recently announced that women will be eligible for ground combat roles as of 2016.
Stupid stupid decision. Ask what male cops whose partners in work are women what they think about going to a dangerous situation with a woman. The same thing with armed forces.


Not the only dated opinion of his:

'I don't want a poofter to play me in a film': Sir Stirling Moss is embroiled in homophobia row after 'offensive' comments - Home News - UK - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/i-dont-want-a-poofter-to-play-me-in-a-film-sir-stirling-moss-is-embroiled-in-homophobia-row-after-offensive-comments-8534236.html) I think I like Moss far more than before now.


Does Stirling Moss not remember Michelle Mouton? One of the best rally drivers we've ever actually seen?
One of the best ever? LOL.


Women in F1 then. Where does one start?

First question is why there are not more women interested in Motorsport. Basically, being a Testosterone sport, it appeals more to us boys. Not all men like Motorsport and not all Motorsport fans are men but the majority of followers are blokes. Simples. Therefore, there is far smaller number of Women aspiring to be Racing drivers.

It's a simple fact of life that some things are going to appeal more to one sex more than the other and I think that getting dirty, covered in oil, breathing in fumes, being thrown around a hard race seet until your arms feel like lead, you're sweaty, blistered, beaten black and blue and feel like your head is being ripped off your shoulders is predominantly a male thing.

Then we have the Physical side. There is no reason whatsoever that a woman can't be a racer but physically they would have to prepare to higher physical condition to be on par with a man. Lets look at other Physical sports such as Tennis. You wouldn't consider it a fair challenge to put Serena Williams who is a mighty athlete against Roger Federer and expect her to win a game, let alone a set, would you?

Men versus Women Tennis (http://www.topendsports.com/sport/tennis/men-v-women.htm)

I don't think that Motorsport requires the same strengths and is more suited to endurance which is a womens strength but there is still the physicality, especially in series like F1.

The mentality of racing is the last point. I have taught hundreds of people, mostly amaturs with no racing experience, to race in a simulator. I have found that overall, men have the spacial awareness and aptitude to better learn the basics. They are predominatly more single minded and quicker. More often, the Ladies did not have quite as much of what for want of a better phrase, I will call the 'killer instinct'. This is something I put down to the testosterone effect if you like. Now, that's not to say that some women weren't excellent and beat the men but 9 times out of 10 it was the other way around. Strange, when it comes to doing simulated pit stops on a static car, women competed on a much more equal basis because they were calmer. The very fastest times were set by men (Tyres and Airguns are quite wieldy after all) but women were consistently in the top half of the times. Again, the Testosterone effect. The Ladies are calmer and can apply themselves without getting too excited which is the downfall of a lot of blokes when trying to do something simple, quickly.

So, in conclusion, there is no reason a woman cannot be a F1 driver but the odds are stacked against them a bit more. For a female to compete in F1 she would have to be performing at a higher physical level and be exceptionally talented than an equilivant man in my opinion.
Most of what you said is something I myself would have said here, but I would once again point out that most women lack the killer instinct. Just take your group of friends racing and you see how men will want to win far more than women.
Women generally are better suited to multitasking. But racing is not multitasking, sure you have loads of things to consider, but in essence it is still concentrating on one thing only. That is something where men are superior to women, generally.

[BDunnell]

It was right for the BBC to report it as it is relevant and I don't wnt a News Agency to just publish vanilla, thought deadening humdrum which they can do sometimes. Better to have something interesting to challenge views.

You make some very valid points overall, but I do take issue with this one. They didn't really have to 'report' his views; rather, they decided to solicit them. I would question whether he's the best person to do so, other than in order to create a bit of a cheap non-story and generate publicity for the programme. As has been said, given that his opinions on such matters are well-known, the result was highly predictable, not 'challenging' at all.

[Knock-on]

You make some very valid points overall, but I do take issue with this one. They didn't really have to 'report' his views; rather, they decided to solicit them. I would question whether he's the best person to do so, other than in order to create a bit of a cheap non-story and generate publicity for the programme. As has been said, given that his opinions on such matters are well-known, the result was highly predictable, not 'challenging' at all.

If they had picked someone with a more mainstream opinion, it would scaresly have been news. That this thread exists and was not started by someone wondering how we can get more women in F1 is testament to that. At least Sir Stirling has unintentionally highlight this subject again.

I would much rather see more women in Motorsport and as the gender gap continues to close, I hope we will. Pit girls are lovely things to look at but wouldn't it be good if there were more dynamic role models in F1 to attract both fans and future drivers. However, as I have said, it's quite an uphill battle. Perhaps comments like those from Sir Stirling and Bernie will spur an exceptional woman on to prove them wrong. Mind you, look what happened when a woman fought her way to the pinnacle of British politics ;)

[schmenke]

As the proud owner of a daughter, I can assure you that the toys she likes to play with are the ones she wants to play with.......

Monster High dolls :dozey:

[Knock-on]

Stupid stupid decision. Ask what male cops whose partners in work are women what they think about going to a dangerous situation with a woman. The same thing with armed forces.

I don't know. Any links?

I did find this:

'David McArtin, of Round Lake, a 30-year Navy veteran, said it's about time women serve in combat. He understands that some, like Imhoff, fear women will be subjected to abuse.

"That's happening today," McArtin said. "I think we need to accept these things will happen in combat. ... And not every woman is going to say, 'This is for me.' Not everyone in America serves."'


Read more: Female Veterans Speak Out About Women In Combat - Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/female-veterans-take-sides-on-women-in-combat-2013-1#ixzz2QeOl8kzv)


I think I like Moss far more than before now.

I respect him as a racer that has contributed greatly to the sport but on issues like this, he might be living a bit in a former generation. I think that there is no barrier mentally or physically for a woman to race in F1 but men are more predisposed to this type of challenge for the reasons I gave. He's a bit of a Dinasour but a lovely old gent and I would love to spend time listening to his old war stories.


One of the best ever? LOL.

I thought that was a bit of a stretch of the imagination there too :D


Most of what you said is something I myself would have said here, but I would once again point out that most women lack the killer instinct. Just take your group of friends racing and you see how men will want to win far more than women.
Women generally are better suited to multitasking. But racing is not multitasking, sure you have loads of things to consider, but in essence it is still concentrating on one thing only. That is something where men are superior to women, generally.

True but not exclusivly so. Men are generally more disposed to being singleminded while women are better at handleing multiple threads of information. The future ex Mrs Knockie can happily watch TV, type on Facebook and hold a converation with me at the same time where I have to do one task at a time ( Usually accompanied with an abrupt 'I'm trying to watch this. Can you please shut up! :) ). However, these are trends and not absolutes. Men tend to be taller than women but don't tell Bernie!!

http://www.google.ru/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=9uazKO-AAUKqDM&tbnid=0MhyMOpPgDrJjM:&ved=0CAUQjBwwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fi.telegraph.co.uk%2Fmultimedia%2F archive%2F01003%2Fecclestone-460_1003240c.jpg&ei=BJdtUZu5Osqq4ASO84GwBA&psig=AFQjCNFijaGLA5B3RHVTZuoqW09eDqvMhQ&ust=1366222981009362

[CNR]

about Susie Wolff.

Forget her gender, she raced in DTM for 7 years and scored a total of 4 points. She has not won a race at any level of competitive motorsport since Karting. This leads me to suggest that she is not good enough for F1. I can’t quite understand how she has ended up at Williams F1 and appears as a candidate for a race seat.will they keep her once wolf sells willams shares ? FORMULA ONE: Wolff to sell Williams shares - Worldnews.com (http://article.wn.com/view/2013/04/16/FORMULA_ONE_Wolff_to_sell_Williams_shares/#/related_news)
Former Williams (http://wn.com/Williams) executive director Toto Wolff (http://wn.com/Toto_Wolff) will sell his 16 per cent stake in the Formula One (http://wn.com/Formula_One) team now that he has moved to rivals Mercedes (http://wn.com/Mercedes), but only when he finds the right buyer

[CNR]

about Susie Wolff.

Forget her gender, she raced in DTM for 7 years and scored a total of 4 points. She has not won a race at any level of competitive motorsport since Karting. This leads me to suggest that she is not good enough for F1. I can’t quite understand how she has ended up at Williams F1 and appears as a candidate for a race seat.will they keep her once wolf sells willams shares ? FORMULA ONE: Wolff to sell Williams shares - Worldnews.com (http://article.wn.com/view/2013/04/16/FORMULA_ONE_Wolff_to_sell_Williams_shares/#/related_news)
Former Williams (http://wn.com/Williams) executive director Toto Wolff (http://wn.com/Toto_Wolff) will sell his 16 per cent stake in the Formula One (http://wn.com/Formula_One) team now that he has moved to rivals Mercedes (http://wn.com/Mercedes), but only when he finds the right buyer

[Hawkmoon]

Regardless of what you think of Moss' comments I think it's pretty obvious that, generally speaking, women aren't as good at driving as men. I think our brains are wired up differently and men seem to have more spatial awareness than women which, along with greater speed and strength, makes men better at sports. But really, who cares? Women are just as good at acting, painting and writing. Make great teachers, doctors and politicians. Does it really make much difference if men are better at something as trivial as driving a racing car?

[call_me_andrew]

I've seen women win in drag racing and those cars have more power than F1 cars (albeit with fewer turns in a race)

2-Q8f6bsfI0

I also recall hearing of a semi-successful woman racing at the grand prix level pre-WDC, but she was blacklisted after being accused of consorting with the Nazis.

[airshifter]

To add another along the drag racing greats....

Angelle Sampey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelle_Sampey)

Only a few NHRA Pro Stock Bike titles. I'm sure Stirling would say she distracted the male riders or something, so it can't be possibly based on skill or courage.

And just a note.... I've done some amateur bike drag racing, and though I never went much beyond mild builds, riding a bike with a fat drag style rear tire and a stretched wheelbase is an eye opener. I made a few slow passes on a friends bike and let's just say it adds a new dimension to how the bike changes direction. I had made sub 10 second runs on my bike (this back in the day when that was considered fast for a street legal bike... LOL) without issue. The first run I made on the real drag style bike I almost put it into the barrier, and I was only headed for a 12-13 second run.

[airshifter]

Stupid stupid decision. Ask what male cops whose partners in work are women what they think about going to a dangerous situation with a woman. The same thing with armed forces.



That would be an opinion endorsed by a lot of men that have sexist trains of thought. I've served with women in the Marines that were ultra fit, some teachers in things such as hand to hand combat, excellent shooters, and overall butt kickers in a military environment. From my experience a lot of women in the military seek to perform to a higher standard to overcome the stereotypes most often created by the sexist guys. The range record at Paris Island (Marine Corps boot camp) was held by a female Marine for quite some time. I've worked with women that I would not hesitate to walk into combat with. This doesn't apply to all women, but it didn't apply to all men either. I've worked with some guys that had the alpha personality type, fitness, and skills to be good Marines, but grossly lacked the mental toughness to be good at it.

When at my last command we went on a hump tough enough to make a good 10-12 very fit guys drop, including one that was on the Marine Corps rugby team. There was a woman who couldn't have weighed 90 lbs soaking wet that made it, and she was carrying a good 2/3 her body weight over those miles.

I've seen a lot of debate on women in combat roles, and as long as the standards aren't "dumbed down" I have no issue with it. The only legitimate concern I've ever seen stated was from Jesse Ventura (actor/politician/activist) who stated that many men who learned old school values might be inclined to protect women in dangerous situations, thus is could cause conflict in hostile military situations. But note that while I view his statement as probably very valid, it is a shortcoming of the males, not the females.

[BDunnell]

Excellent post above.

[big_sw2000]

Really? 1982 was the year in which she narrowly finished second to Röhrl, and in the last two rounds she retired because of an accident (Ivory Coast) and finished second (RAC) respectively.

Yes seems I got my wires crossed hear lol. She started the rally knowing her dad had just died. It was his request that she started the rally and not come home. Im still positive ive got a video or a book at home, which saiz she went home. I will have to look.

[The Black Knight]

That would be an opinion endorsed by a lot of men that have sexist trains of thought. I've served with women in the Marines that were ultra fit, some teachers in things such as hand to hand combat, excellent shooters, and overall butt kickers in a military environment. From my experience a lot of women in the military seek to perform to a higher standard to overcome the stereotypes most often created by the sexist guys. The range record at Paris Island (Marine Corps boot camp) was held by a female Marine for quite some time. I've worked with women that I would not hesitate to walk into combat with. This doesn't apply to all women, but it didn't apply to all men either. I've worked with some guys that had the alpha personality type, fitness, and skills to be good Marines, but grossly lacked the mental toughness to be good at it.

When at my last command we went on a hump tough enough to make a good 10-12 very fit guys drop, including one that was on the Marine Corps rugby team. There was a woman who couldn't have weighed 90 lbs soaking wet that made it, and she was carrying a good 2/3 her body weight over those miles.

I've seen a lot of debate on women in combat roles, and as long as the standards aren't "dumbed down" I have no issue with it. The only legitimate concern I've ever seen stated was from Jesse Ventura (actor/politician/activist) who stated that many men who learned old school values might be inclined to protect women in dangerous situations, thus is could cause conflict in hostile military situations. But note that while I view his statement as probably very valid, it is a shortcoming of the males, not the females.

Great post! :up: