Donkey of the race - China 2013

[gloomyDAY]

1. Gutierrez - Taking out Sutil, and making me regret him as a FGP pick.

2. Webber - Slamming into Ricciardo.

TBC

[tfp]

Donkey of the race so far are the Ferrari team for ruining massa's race with stupid tactics!

[dj_bytedisaster]

Donkey of the race so far are the Ferrari team for ruining massa's race with stupid tactics!

Well, ruining Felipe's race is default setting at Ferrari, isn't it?

[steveaki13]

Any excuse to Bash Ferrari

[dj_bytedisaster]

Any excuse to Bash Ferrari

Not exactly. I think they've done a great job with Fernando, but you have to admit, just as Mark at RBR, Felipe seems to draw the short straw an awful lot of times, doesn't he?

[steveaki13]

I thought Mark deserved it for not helping Seb in past races?

Anyway its true, but I suppose its the same whether its Red Bull or Ferrari, best strategy goes to the 1st driver.

[Koz]

Pirelli.

Gutierrez, he just isn't ready for F1.

Webber - did he think the STR was Vettel? :o

[truefan72]

DiResta
Webber
and then all those who used DRS in the yellow flag situation
I expect proper penalties
if not then that will be a sham decision

[Koz]

I must say, the real donkey is Alonso for making everyone else look oh so bad!

[donKey jote]

Pérez for going "all over the place" :p

[N4D13]

I was thinking Massa. He didn't have the best strategy, but neither could he overtake nor was he fast after his first stop. I don't think bad strategy accounts for being 40 seconds off Alonso.

But if there is a donkey of the weekend, it has to be Red Bull. Go figure why. :p

[tfp]

Not exactly. I think they've done a great job with Fernando, but you have to admit, just as Mark at RBR, Felipe seems to draw the short straw an awful lot of times, doesn't he?

Agreed, it seems the two teams can only look after one driver per race!

[truefan72]

Pirelli.

Gutierrez, he just isn't ready for F1.

agreed!
I've seen enough

I hope Kobayashi is on speed dial

[pino]

Well, ruining Felipe's race is default setting at Ferrari, isn't it?

How about you look into your garden (Red Bull) before starting to criticize others...?

[longisland]

Gutierrez for ramming into Sutil, Kimi & Mark for assuming drivers in front to use the rear view mirrors

[truefan72]

ok
Lets add kimi to the list
for the poor start
(I wonder how things would be different if he managed to hold up the 2 ferrari's for a lap or 2)
and also for using DRS under yellow

[A FONDO]

Massa for starting 2 meters behind his teammate and finishing nearly a minute behind him.
That ugly widening of the exit of the hairpin.

[Ranger]

Sutil - Deliberately running his team-mate clean off the road.
Gutierrez - Cleaning out Sutil. Replacing Kobayashi with him is starting to look like an unwise move.
Webber - Clumsy collision with Vergne. But I'd be curious as to what Helmut Marko thinks.

Red Bull - Forgetting to put four wheels on Webber's car.
Mercedes - For continually having issues on Rosberg's car.

[steveaki13]

How about you look into your garden (Red Bull) before starting to criticize others...?

Yeeeeeeeeeees exactly.

[AndyL]

Agreed, it seems the two teams can only look after one driver per race!

Not just those two teams! Was interesting to see Perez dropping into the dutiful number 2 role today. Jumping out of the way immediately when Button came out of the pits behind him, and then testing out the option tyre in his middle stint.

Grosjean and Vergne were way behind their team-mates as well.

What happened to Hulkenberg's pace in the second half of the race? Looked like he should have been in that 4th-6th battle early on but faded away.

[ShiftingGears]

The DRS, certainly. There is no spectacle in watching cars simply cruise past another simply because the drivers can press a button.

[Roamy]

I must say, the real donkey is Alonso for making everyone else look oh so bad!

Yes - he should have stopped for a sandwich and a beer and would still have won. He is that good

[truefan72]

That wetback who destroyed Sutil's race.
Massa for starting 2 meters behind his teammate and finishing nearly a minute behind him.
That ugly widening of the exit of the hairpin.

The use of the most offensive slur for a Latino should get you banned for a year
such language is abhorrent, extremely offensive and has no place in this forum
It is tantamount to calling a black person the "n" word
I hope the mods come down on you with the full extent fo their law

shame on you
Shame!

[steveaki13]

Donkeys

Red Bull - Well it has been about the worst weekend for them. Slightly off the pace, Webber being screwed a couple of times and allowing both there drivers to maybe use DRS under yellow flags.

Pirelli - These tyres give the impression of lots of passing, but actually the drivers cant push and passes are only ever one way and so easy. Do we actually ever see a pass now that is equal and actually intense in the race??? Even Seb chasing Lewis at the end was so one sided to Seb due to differences in the tyres.

Massa - Despite strategy he was 50 odd seconds behind and with wearing tyres and DRS couldn't pass di Resta.

Sutil - Taking off his team mate

Gutierrez - Fair play to him he apologised and said it was a horrid mistake, but still a poor bit of driving to wipe out Sutil.


Webber - Smashing into Ricciardo.


Perez - Forcing Kimi off of the track. What happened to leaving a cars width

[steveaki13]

The use of the most offensive slur for a Latino should get you banned for a year
such language is abhorrent, extremely offensive and has no place in this forum
It is tantamount to calling a black person the "n" word
I hope the mods come down on you with the full extent fo their law

shame on you
Shame!

Sadly Agree

[Roamy]

The DRS, certainly. There is no spectacle in watching cars simply cruise past another simply because the drivers can press a button.

well yes and no. I don't see too many guys getting back by the guy who DRS'd them. But today Alonso would have dusted everyone with or without it

[steveaki13]

The DRS, certainly. There is no spectacle in watching cars simply cruise past another simply because the drivers can press a button.

DRS and Pirelli are giving us more passes in the races, but really none of which mean much.

Unless you pit on the same lap you cant see an even battle in F1 anymore in which two drivers battle tooth and nail. Even then they cant risk fighting to save tyres.

[pino]

That post has been edited and infractions points will be given as soon as I get on my pc (on mobile now)

Now back to topic please :)

[truefan72]

@ Pino

I see you edited the post, but you need to take action on SlowSon himself

Perhaps not being in United states doesn't allow you to fully understand how disgusting that language is.
It is the most racist thing you can say about a latino.

Simply eliminating it, is not enough IMO

OK
I've said my peace

[dj_bytedisaster]

How about you look into your garden (Red Bull) before starting to criticize others...?

RB isn't my Garden. And if you managed to keep up with the posts of today, you'd know that I said Mark is suffering the same fate as felipe at RB. So I have to call you a little b*tch and your argument invalid.

[AndyL]

Unless you pit on the same lap you cant see an even battle in F1 anymore in which two drivers battle tooth and nail. Even then they cant risk fighting to save tyres.

Pit-passing and strategic racing are hardly something that's new to the Pirelli era.

[truefan72]

That post has been edited and infractions points will be given as soon as I get on my pc (on mobile now)

Now back to topic please :)

Thx!

[dj_bytedisaster]

But if there is a donkey of the weekend, it has to be Red Bull. Go figure why. :p

In that we agree. After the Malaysia weekend, they did the utmost to fuel the conspiracy theories. *lol*
First the fuelling blunder in Q2 and then the botched pitstop, you couldn't stage it better than that :D

[JasonPotato]

Donkeys - RB for shooting Webber yet again and Pirelli for making a set of tyres which last 5 Laps only.

[steveaki13]

Pit-passing and strategic racing are hardly something that's new to the Pirelli era.

I know, but some talk of way more passing than in the past and how great that is, but I am just wondering how many of those passes actually mean much.

They dont get me particularly excited.

[Tazio]

Donkey of the race so far are the Ferrari team for ruining massa's race with stupid tactics!Scrub bro...Fred smoked Felipe, deal with it!

[CNR]

Alonso and lewis did you see how they were getting on after the race

[dj_bytedisaster]

Donkey of the race is Pirelli - again - and they will be on principle until they're gone. Those tires were utterly ridiculous and they make a mockery of F1.

Vettel in post-race interview on German TV today:

Q: "Seb, what is the balance of power now [after Ferrari's win] ?"
A: "Balance of power doesn't matter. It's a joke anyway if all you do is nursing tires instead of racing."

Sums it up...

[pino]

RB isn't my Garden. And if you managed to keep up with the posts of today, you'd know that I said Mark is suffering the same fate as felipe at RB. So I have to call you a little b*tch and your argument invalid.

Same for you, if you had read my posts you would know I am posting via my mobile with poor Internet connection so can't be updated minutes by minutes. Anyway the was no need to be that rude, hopefully it won't happen again...

[dj_bytedisaster]

Same for you, if you had read my posts you would know I am posting via my mobile with poor Internet connection so can't be updated minutes by minutes. Anyway the was no need to be that rude, hopefully it won't happen again...

Pino, if you know that you haven't got the whole picture, why do you have a go at people then?

[faster69]

quite a few:

ferrari for killing massa's race.

red bull for killing webber's race saturday and sunday.

kimi for making an elementary mistake and hitting perez.

[Whyzars]

Those tires were utterly ridiculous and they make a mockery of F1.

I don't wholly disagree with you but is it the tyres or is it the rule that says a certain tyre must be used at least once?

Personally I'm leaning towards the rule being the donkey. Tyres are just tyres after all.

[pino]

Pino, if you know that you haven't got the whole picture, why do you have a go at people then?

Your post was posted just a min before mine and I didn't had chance to read it, still wasn't rude or offensive unlike yours.

Anyway if both Ferrari and Red Bull did act in the same way, why according to you...Ferrari only deserves donkey's award then ? :confused:

[dj_bytedisaster]

Your post was posted just a min before mine and I didn't had chance to read it, still wasn't rude or offensive unlike yours.

Anyway if both Ferrari and Red Bull did act in the same way, why according to you...Ferrari only deserves donkey's award then ? :confused:

I didn't give a donkey award to Ferrari. Mine goes to Pirelli. I merely said that screwing Massa's races seems to be default at Ferrari, as much as it seems at RBR to poke Mark up the backside. Chill, man...
I'll praise Ferrari later on, just for you - I promise...

[tfp]

Scrub bro...Fred smoked Felipe, deal with it!

Yeah he did.... But if they hadn't messed up their strategy with Massa we could have had 3 guys fighting for third instead of Only Hamilton and vettel. And, er, yes, I am dealing with it just fine.... Thank you! LOL

[dj_bytedisaster]

normally I don't give a flying expletive about Faceborg. I'm only registered there, because my whole family loiteres about there, but today I couldn't help but leave the Pirelli Idiots a 'love letter'



I'll agitate the raw **** out of you guys until you're finally gone from F1. Your friggin' MAOAM tires at China were a bloody disgrace!! If I want to watch tire nursing eco-runs, I'll watch all the ecomentalists and lentil eating lesbians clogging up the street in their "green" Toyota Priuses. Just get the hell away from my favourite sport. Just go away, please.

[Tazio]

Thank you! LOL
No worries scro.
Idiocracy- my fave part - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8yoSAiwY18)

[The Black Knight]

Gutierrez for his crashing into Sutil.

Webber for his incident with Vergne.

Raikkonen, though he drove a good race overall, gets an honorable for his incident with Perez. He should have known better and gone down the inside.

[gm99]

I pick the Mexican fraction of F1 - Gutierrez and Perez.

[Tazio]

Yeah he did.... But if they hadn't messed up their strategy with Massa we could have had 3 guys fighting for third instead of Only Hamilton and vettel. And, er, yes, I am dealing with it just fine.... Thank you! LOLNot the problem according to Felipe :bulb:

Felipe Massa - 6th : "It's difficult to understand exactly what happened today, because the start went very well. I was immediately quick and the car was working perfectly. At the first stop, I fitted the Medium tyres and after a few laps I began to suffer with graining on the front. That meant I lost ground to other cars and it was probably down to a problem linked to the track conditions and my driving style. All weekend, I haven't felt comfortable with these tyres and in the race, any attempts I made to save them was useless. But for this problem, I would certainly have been in the fight for the podium, but I am still confident because, all the same, I was able to bring home a good points haul which is important in a season that has only just begun

[heliocastroneves#3]

Donkey of the race? Mark Webber's rear tire..

[tfp]

No worries scro.
Idiocracy- my fave part - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8yoSAiwY18)

Reminds me of the doctor I use :cool:

Massa blaming himself again? Either way, the timing of his first pit stop was totally wrong. And his lap times at the start of the race were consistent with alonso s. I still think he could have been fighting for the final podium spot with a better strategy.

[Tazio]

Reminds me of the doctor I use :cool:

Massa blaming himself again? Either way, the timing of his first pit stop was totally wrong. And his lap times at the start of the race were consistent with alonso s. I still think he could have been fighting for the final podium spot with a better strategy.
That's cool, the stop may have been late but unless FM is lying, it is when he put on the freakin' primes he had problems. Bring him in earlier, and the earlier his problems would have started. :bulb:

[Mifune]

normally I don't give a flying expletive about Faceborg. I'm only registered there, because my whole family loiteres about there, but today I couldn't help but leave the Pirelli Idiots a 'love letter'


Jesus! What exactly is the point of you? You know that nobody cares what you say right?
Man, I thought this place would improve when some of the old dickheads shoved off, but as ever you tools are legion....

[dj_bytedisaster]

Jesus! What exactly is the point of you? You know that nobody cares what you say right?
Man, I thought this place would improve when some of the old dickheads shoved off, but as ever you tools are legion....

And you know we don't give flying **** about you rice peasants either....
Go hug your sword, do us a favour, peasant...

I can't believe I'm getting blasted forbeing "agressive" and racist **** like that is tolerated...

[DexDexter]

Gutierrez is the donkey of the race with a special mention to Grosjean who was nowhere compared to Kimi.

[anthonyvop]

Mark Webber is the Donkey of the year. Somebody would have to show up on the grid drunk as a skunk to take that tittle away from Mr. Vinegar & Water.

[CNR]

Well, ruining Felipe's race is default setting at Ferrari, isn't it? Chinese GP: Massa mystified by loss of pace - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106775)
Massa said he is still struggling for answers to explain his eventual 40-second deficit to Alonso.
"It's difficult to understand exactly what happened today, because the start went very well," Massa said.

so it is not only red bull5h#t playing team favorites

[kfzmeister]

Pirelli has created exactly the tire that the FIA have asked for. The only people that bitch about the tires are those that have favorite drivers/ teams that are not doing well on them, namely Red Bull and Mercedes.
How about those complainers award Donkey to the named team engineers? That would be appropriate. :D

About Massa. Alonso was ahead, so got first stop call. Sure they could have stacked them like Mercedes, but how do you finish 50 seconds after the race ends? He says he had tire issues? Well then Felipe, perhaps learning how to keep 'em alive is in order? Perhaps he deserves donkey? Afterall, surely he had the same car as Alonso. No?

[zako85]

Pirelli tires are terrible. First, they rob us of seeing an all out fight in the qualification session. More than half of all cars did not even leave the pits before the it was less than half of Q1 left left. A lot of cars often choose not to even run in Q3. Next, the fact that the soft tires last only five laps is ridiculous. No team would use them at all in the Chinese race if they weren't required. These tires are not designed to make cars go fast. They're simply meant to create a good show with all cars in and out of pits every 10 laps. These tires have simply lowered the bar to make the race interesting to complete neophytes who get to see order shuffled frequently and constant pit action all the time. I don't really consider this good racing. I say bring back the tire wars now. At that point no tire manufacturer would dare to bring such mediocre tire to a race.

[donKey jote]

Tire wars... do you really just want to see the tires winning or losing, or wouldn't you rather it was more about driver/aero package/engine ? :)

[Koz]

Tire wars... do you really just want to see the tires winning or losing, or wouldn't you rather it was more about driver/aero package/engine ? :)

Can we ban pit stops altogether and just have a race from start to finish?

[A FONDO]

Chinese GP: Massa mystified by loss of pace - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106775)
so it is not only red bull5h#t playing team favorites

Pffft come on, man, after what happened in Malaysia it is ridiculous to look for excuses for Massa anymore. He just has to follow Webber into retirement.

[Tazio]

Chinese GP: Massa mystified by loss of pace - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106775)
so it is not only red bull5h#t playing team favorites
Why didn't you post the part of that link that Felipe blames himself for tires that he couldn't control the blistering of, thus not being able to conserve them?
Doesn't that fit into your thinly veiled petty Ferrari bashing?


"That meant I lost ground to other cars and it was probably down to a problem linked to the track conditions and my driving style.

"All weekend, I haven't felt comfortable with these tyres and in the race, any attempts I made to save them was useless."

Massa believes he would have been in the podium hunt were it not for his pace on the medium tyres

[zako85]

Tire wars... do you really just want to see the tires winning or losing, or wouldn't you rather it was more about driver/aero package/engine ? :)

We already have different

Engines
KERS
Chasis
Pit crews
Drivers

Why not tires as well?

By the way, I don't really wish the tire war to be the decisive factor. What I want is to see tire manufacturers try to bring tires that allow the car to complete the race as fast as possible, whether it takes 0 pit stops or 5 pits stops, or anything between.. it's up to them. Instead we see these "show tires", tires that are meant to be an amusing and unpredictable handicap, being used for a second year in a row. Once Pirelli is competing with say Firestone, you know for sure they won't be bringing this joke tire to a race again.

[AndyL]

We already have different

Engines
KERS
Chasis
Pit crews
Drivers

Why not tires as well?

By the way, I don't really wish the tire war to be the decisive factor.

In a tyre-war scenario, what would you do to prevent them being a decisive factor, as they were previously?

One option that comes to mind is something like the current engine rules: regulate the design and construction so heavily that there is no room to gain anything more than a slender advantage. But then that's no different to now - with tyre performance essentially decided by the FIA.

[DexDexter]

Pirelli has created exactly the tire that the FIA have asked for. The only people that bitch about the tires are those that have favorite drivers/ teams that are not doing well on them, namely Red Bull and Mercedes.
How about those complainers award Donkey to the named team engineers? That would be appropriate. :D

About Massa. Alonso was ahead, so got first stop call. Sure they could have stacked them like Mercedes, but how do you finish 50 seconds after the race ends? He says he had tire issues? Well then Felipe, perhaps learning how to keep 'em alive is in order? Perhaps he deserves donkey? Afterall, surely he had the same car as Alonso. No?

People will always complain no matter what. I'd like those complainers to watch races from 1988, that was exciting! The fastest car would always win and the tires would not represent any kind of a problem. No artificial rule tweaks, just racing and pure excitement! (Two Mclarens a lap in front of everybody). 92 was even better!

[zako85]

People will always complain no matter what. I'd like those complainers to watch races from 1988, that was exciting! The fastest car would always win and the tires would not represent any kind of a problem. No artificial rule tweaks, just racing and pure excitement! (Two Mclarens a lap in front of everybody). 92 was even better!

88/89 wasn't so bad as there was good competition within McLaren team. As for other examples, you don't need to go all the way back to 92. Enough to see 2011 or some of Schummy's WDC years. So what? There were many years like that and there will be more. That's the way F1 has always been. That's not an excuse to dumb down the sport to the least common denominator using gimmicks such as five laps tires.

[wedge]

Donkey: Webbo's RR tyre not running over Vettel...


People will always complain no matter what. I'd like those complainers to watch races from 1988, that was exciting! The fastest car would always win and the tires would not represent any kind of a problem. No artificial rule tweaks, just racing and pure excitement! (Two Mclarens a lap in front of everybody). 92 was even better!

They were on the limit and if they wasn't it was usually to do with fuel consumption and not tyres.


Pirelli has created exactly the tire that the FIA have asked for. The only people that bitch about the tires are those that have favorite drivers/ teams that are not doing well on them, namely Red Bull and Mercedes.
How about those complainers award Donkey to the named team engineers? That would be appropriate. :D

Genuinely felt sorry for Vettel. Even on the primes he was told how to race.

That's not racing.

The driver should decide when to push and not ask the team and be over-ruled.

But we're between a rock and a hard place. If its a boring race then its aero but there's too much overtaking it's joke tyres.

[zako85]

I must say RedBull overall were the donkeys. They underfill Webber's car during qualis, then set up Vettel with a bold but losing strategy. I don't get what was the point of this all. Alonso, Raikkonen, and Hamilton all started from the top 2 rows, and this is pretty much where they ended up finishing, so Vettel's convoluted strategy of saving tires for the race didn't buy him anything at all.

[wedge]

I must say RedBull overall were the donkeys. They underfill Webber's car during qualis, then set up Vettel with a bold but losing strategy. I don't get what was the point of this all. Alonso, Raikkonen, and Hamilton all started from the top 2 rows, and this is pretty much where they ended up finishing, so Vettel's convoluted strategy of saving tires for the race didn't buy him anything at all.

Partly because the tyres are so crap this year and partly this year's car has a habit of eating its tyres.

In Malaysia Vettel had superior tyre strategy over Webber. Last year Vettel used the alternate strategy and nearly won in Monaco.

[schmenke]

...These tires are not designed to make cars go fast. They're simply meant to create a good show with all cars in and out of pits every 10 laps. These tires have simply lowered the bar to make the race interesting to complete neophytes who get to see order shuffled frequently and constant pit action all the time. I don't really consider this good racing. I say bring back the tire wars now. ....

I agree with pretty much all of that.

[steveaki13]

We already have different

Engines
KERS
Chasis
Pit crews
Drivers

Why not tires as well?

By the way, I don't really wish the tire war to be the decisive factor. What I want is to see tire manufacturers try to bring tires that allow the car to complete the race as fast as possible, whether it takes 0 pit stops or 5 pits stops, or anything between.. it's up to them. Instead we see these "show tires", tires that are meant to be an amusing and unpredictable handicap, being used for a second year in a row. Once Pirelli is competing with say Firestone, you know for sure they won't be bringing this joke tire to a race again.

I could have written this.

This is spot on.

[steveaki13]

88/89 wasn't so bad as there was good competition within McLaren team. As for other examples, you don't need to go all the way back to 92. Enough to see 2011 or some of Schummy's WDC years. So what? There were many years like that and there will be more. That's the way F1 has always been. That's not an excuse to dumb down the sport to the least common denominator using gimmicks such as five laps tires.

This too.

[Bagwan]

Could this be that the tires brought to the Chinese race were simply the wrong ones ?

By that , I mean that perhaps they chose the tires expecting cooler weather ?
Given the conditions , would the medium/hard combo have been better than the soft/medium one ?

Was it warmer than expected ?

Or , is there another reason that the track was more abrasive than normal ?



I guess it's just that I'm getting a little tired of the constant droning over the tires ruining the sport that goes on around here .
Get over it .
The FIA asked for these tires and got what they wanted .

Pirelli must be getting pretty sick of it as well .

Everyone gets the same deal .

Of course they got it slightly wrong in China , but it can't be an easy thing to do , making a tire that survives a specific number of laps .


Relax , and relish the fact that we sat on the edge of our seats due to Vettel's charge at the end , due to them having to run different tires , one's with vast differences in performance .

[Ari]

But honestly. Re Webber.

Were it Vettel running behind Vergne the team would have advised Vergne to move over for the senior team. Webber? No such thing. Vergne leaves a gap that the Queen Mary would have moved through and wonders why Webber gave it a shot. Then, mid-corner, Vergne turns in to Webber.

There is NO DOUBT Webber was late and did not have his car far enough around to make the move, but, really. It's their baby team. Surely some can see Webbers point that he felt Vergne had moved over to let him through. You guys should take a look at the move again. Webber is in the wrong, but Vergne certainly played a card too. Against another team Webber had no right to be there, but against STR?

Again, had it been Vettel we would be all annoyed with Vergne for closing the door on him.

PS: Webber, from the back of the grid, was ahead of Vettel at that point.

[DexDexter]

88/89 wasn't so bad as there was good competition within McLaren team. As for other examples, you don't need to go all the way back to 92. Enough to see 2011 or some of Schummy's WDC years. So what? There were many years like that and there will be more. That's the way F1 has always been. That's not an excuse to dumb down the sport to the least common denominator using gimmicks such as five laps tires.

The problem is (as I've written before) that in this day and age people will turn away from the sport and it will die if it's not exciting. There is just so much entertainment from which to choose from. Watching a dominant car go around the same corners 56 times is actually quite boring.

[ShiftingGears]

Why not tires as well?


Because they are the most decisive component of a formula one car, and an outsourced component.

[kfzmeister]

Again, had it been Vettel we would be all annoyed with Vergne for closing the door on him.


Marko would have paid him a personal visit in his garage and told him that that was absolutely not acceptable.

[N. Jones]

Sergio Perez and Jensen Button - Why Oh Why did I choose them for my team. Is it true one driver can affect a team that much (meaning - Hamilton had McL up near the podium. Where have they been since he left?).

Actually - Webber for me. He was too optimistic about that move.

[Garry Walker]

Donkey? Perez for being a fool and for being out of his depth. Also, RB for making sure Webber has a nice successful weekend.



ok
Lets add kimi to the list
for the poor start
(I wonder how things would be different if he managed to hold up the 2 ferrari's for a lap or 2)
Caused by a change from the Lotus team, nothing to do with KR.


and also for using DRS under yellow
Just like about 10 other drivers did and none got punished for reasons even you can read from the net?

normally I don't give a flying expletive about Faceborg. I'm only registered there, because my whole family loiteres about there, but today I couldn't help but leave the Pirelli Idiots a 'love letter'

LOL.

[AndyL]

Sergio Perez and Jensen Button - Why Oh Why did I choose them for my team. Is it true one driver can affect a team that much (meaning - Hamilton had McL up near the podium. Where have they been since he left?).

Look back at the 2009 season when Hamilton was the reigning champion. McLaren produced a poor car that scored a total of 15 points (between both drivers) in the first 9 races. I don't think you could blame Hamilton for that any more than you can blame the current McLaren drivers for the current car. The drivers don't design the car.

[faster69]

Sergio Perez and Jensen Button - Why Oh Why did I choose them for my team. Is it true one driver can affect a team that much (meaning - Hamilton had McL up near the podium. Where have they been since he left?).

Actually - Webber for me. He was too optimistic about that move.

i don't think the mclaren is that bad a car. it's worse than last year of course, but button would have had a strong finish in malaysia, 5th in china is a strong result.

button's a lousy qualifier, and perez was a worse qualifier last year than koboyashi.

mercedes has improved with the addition of hamilton. mclaren relatively worse without him.

like when schumacher went to ferrari. ferrari was immediately at the pointy end of the grid, benetton went backwards.

alonso going to ferrari -- no difference to when massa and kimi were there.

[Lee23]

The donkeys of the race have to be red bull, how can you let a wheel come straight off a multi-million pound car, was a very stupid mistake