2013 Chinese Grand Prix Thread

[steveaki13]

So we have had a boring 3 week gap after all the waiting and build up. At last though the 3rd Round of the 2013 season is just around the corner. The Chinese GP.
I felt the first two races were an interesting guide to the season.

Red Bull fastest, Mercedes competative, Lotus up and down, Ferrari fast but not quite there and Mclaren struggling.

Drivers Championship after 2 Rounds

Sebastian Vettel - 40 pts[/*:m:3o9d68ni]
Kimi Raikkonen - 31 pts[/*:m:3o9d68ni]
Mark Webber - 26 pts[/*:m:3o9d68ni]
Lewis Hamilton - 25 pts[/*:m:3o9d68ni]
Felipe Massa - 22 pts[/*:m:3o9d68ni]
Fernando Alonso - 18 pts[/*:m:3o9d68ni]
Nico Rosberg - 12 pts[/*:m:3o9d68ni]
Romain Grosjean - 9 pts[/*:m:3o9d68ni]
Adrian Sutil - 6 pts[/*:m:3o9d68ni]
Paul di Resta - 4 pts[/*:m:3o9d68ni]
Nico Hulkenberg - 4 pts[/*:m:3o9d68ni]
Sergio Perez - 2 pts[/*:m:3o9d68ni]
Jenson Button - 2 pts[/*:m:3o9d68ni]
Jean Eric Vergne - 1 pt[/*:m:3o9d68ni]

Constructors Championship after 2 Rounds


Red Bull - 66 pts[/*:m:3o9d68ni]
Lotus - 40 pts[/*:m:3o9d68ni]
Ferrari - 40 pts[/*:m:3o9d68ni]
Mercedes - 37 pts[/*:m:3o9d68ni]
Force India - 10 pts[/*:m:3o9d68ni]
Sauber - 4 pts[/*:m:3o9d68ni]
Mclaren - 4pts[/*:m:3o9d68ni]
Toro Rosso - 1 pt[/*:m:3o9d68ni]

2013 Chinese Grand Prix, Shanghai International Circuit, Shanghai.

12-14th April

56 Laps

Previous Winners
2004: Rubens Barrichello - Ferrari
2005: Fernando Alonso - Renault
2006: Michael Schumacher - Ferrari
2007: Kimi Raikkonen - Ferrari
2008: Lewis Hamilton - Mclaren
2009: Sebastian Vettel - Red Bull
2010: Jenson Button - Mclaren
2011: Lewis Hamilton - Mclaren
2012: Nico Rosberg - Mercedes

Most Wins
Hamilton - 2 wins
Barrichello - 1 win
Alonso - 1 win
Schumacer - 1 win
Raikkonen - 1 win
Vettel - 1 win
Button - 1 win
Rosberg - 1 win

*So no one has really cracked this track. Only Lewis has 2 wins.

Mclaren - 3 wins
Ferrari - 3 wins
Renault - 1 win
Red Bull - 1 win
Mercedes - 1 win


So there we go less than a week to go and with the teams setting off for China tomorrow its time we started discussing how Mark an Seb are going to get on this weekend. :p

Enjoy

[airshifter]

I think it's safe to say how Mark and Seb will get along this weekend....

I'm ready for some racing!

[Tazio]

This GP will feature the medium and soft compounds. With the relatively smooth surface of this track, and projected dry warm weather Shanghai Weekend Weather - AccuWeather Forecast for Shanghai China (http://www.accuweather.com/en/cn/shanghai/106577/weekend-weather/106577) I believe we should start seeing the overall team pecking order come a little more closely into focus.

[Big Ben]

what? has the championship already started?

[TheFamousEccles]

Hooray! Mind you, F1 is nowhere near as bad as World Superbike - 6 weeks between rounds 1 and 2! I've forgotten what they look like.

Anyway, as you were...

[Tazio]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPlJMmIiq5Q

[racerdude]

So we have had a boring 3 week gap after all the waiting and build up. At last though the 3rd Round of the 2013 season is just around the corner. The Chinese GP.
I felt the first two races were an interesting guide to the season.

Red Bull fastest, Mercedes competative, Lotus up and down, Ferrari fast but not quite there and Mclaren struggling.

Drivers Championship after 2 Rounds

Sebastian Vettel - 40 pts[/*:m:1v3elr4s]
Kimi Raikkonen - 31 pts[/*:m:1v3elr4s]
Mark Webber - 26 pts[/*:m:1v3elr4s]
Lewis Hamilton - 25 pts[/*:m:1v3elr4s]
Felipe Massa - 22 pts[/*:m:1v3elr4s]
Fernando Alonso - 18 pts[/*:m:1v3elr4s]
Nico Rosberg - 12 pts[/*:m:1v3elr4s]
Romain Grosjean - 9 pts[/*:m:1v3elr4s]
Adrian Sutil - 6 pts[/*:m:1v3elr4s]
Paul di Resta - 4 pts[/*:m:1v3elr4s]
Nico Hulkenberg - 4 pts[/*:m:1v3elr4s]
Sergio Perez - 2 pts[/*:m:1v3elr4s]
Jenson Button - 2 pts[/*:m:1v3elr4s]
Jean Eric Vergne - 1 pt[/*:m:1v3elr4s]

Constructors Championship after 2 Rounds


Red Bull - 66 pts[/*:m:1v3elr4s]
Lotus - 40 pts[/*:m:1v3elr4s]
Ferrari - 40 pts[/*:m:1v3elr4s]
Mercedes - 37 pts[/*:m:1v3elr4s]
Force India - 10 pts[/*:m:1v3elr4s]
Sauber - 4 pts[/*:m:1v3elr4s]
Mclaren - 4pts[/*:m:1v3elr4s]
Toro Rosso - 1 pt[/*:m:1v3elr4s]

2013 Chinese Grand Prix, Shanghai International Circuit, Shanghai.

12-14th April

56 Laps

Previous Winners
2004: Rubens Barrichello - Ferrari
2005: Fernando Alonso - Renault
2006: Michael Schumacher - Ferrari
2007: Kimi Raikkonen - Ferrari
2008: Lewis Hamilton - Mclaren
2009: Sebastian Vettel - Red Bull
2010: Jenson Button - Mclaren
2011: Lewis Hamilton - Mclaren
2012: Nico Rosberg - Mercedes

Most Wins
Hamilton - 2 wins
Barrichello - 1 win
Alonso - 1 win
Schumacer - 1 win
Raikkonen - 1 win
Vettel - 1 win
Button - 1 win
Rosberg - 1 win

*So no one has really cracked this track. Only Lewis has 2 wins.

Mclaren - 3 wins
Ferrari - 3 wins
Renault - 1 win
Red Bull - 1 win
Mercedes - 1 win


So there we go less than a week to go and with the teams setting off for China tomorrow its time we started discussing how Mark an Seb are going to get on this weekend. :p

Enjoy


MacLaren seemed to have to step up their game, maybe their ready to catch up and challenge Merc after the 3 weeks gap. It makes me wonder if Red Bull's Webber will do something to Vettel that will surprise him. I'm sure its gonna be a fantastic weekend.

[andyone]

mc laren dont have drivers who can push the car to its top imit. dont forget forceindia..

[racerdude]

mc laren dont have drivers who can push the car to its top imit. dont forget forceindia..

Oh that's right I totally forgot about forceindia. They were on par with Mercedes at the Malaysian GP, and I think performed better with regards to tyre management than anyone else

[jens]

I don't know why, but for some reason Mercedes-Rosberg package has always clicked in China so far. In fact they have been competing for a race win in all last three occasions together, before finally delivering that win last year.

I think McLaren should not necessarily be underestimated either here. In Malaysia Button was running a fine fifth, so maybe they can have a sniff at the podium already. But of course we don't know, how will the track/conditions suit them and whether McLaren has managed to develop their troubled car further.

Then of course Red Bull, Ferrari and Lotus are the ones, who you would expect to have some speed, so it will be interesting, because we have many competitive cars and someone will be disappointed.

But somebody will win too.
:)

[Tazio]

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/155766_462996167105613_775677129_n.png

[racerdude]

Up until now I still can't seem to get what the DRS for as shown in the picture above this. I know its to promote overtaking by aerodynamic drag reduction, but I cant relate it to the track and the purpose. Is it a safety feature to make the drivers aware that overtaking is better done here or is it a mediating factor to all the other drivers?

[Tazio]

I may be wrong, and I'm not 100% sure I'm answering your question, but I think that it is because it combines three elements that make this a good choice (as DRS locations go). It is on the second half (roughly) of the fastest straight, (see speed trap location) which allows cars to draft and reach close to terminal speed before deploying DRS. It ends right at the breaking point to turn #1 which means that the DRS systems will close at the end of the DRS zone by simply breaking, and finally it is the part of the track that has the most spectators.

[racerdude]

I may be wrong, and I'm not 100% sure I'm answering your question, but I think that it is because it combines three elements that make this a good choice (as DRS locations go). It is on the second half (roughly) of the fastest straight, (see speed trap location) which allows cars to draft and reach close to terminal speed before deploying DRS. It ends right at the breaking point to turn #1 which means that the DRS systems will close at the end of the DRS zone by simply breaking, and finally it is the part of the track that has the most spectators.

OK thanks, I still cant get the purpose. I'm not that technical though.Lol. Maybe what I'm asking is does it give any advantage to drivers to overtake or how they perform in the race? I'm asking this because what I read is that it promotes "overtaking", and somehow all I read in forums is that it loses the competitive aspect of the sport, making it unexciting. I still cant comprehend which is true.

[Tazio]

F1 China 2013: Hamilton taken 'ill' (http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/447401/F1_China_2013_Hamilton_taken_ill/)

[henners88]

F1 China 2013: Hamilton taken 'ill' (http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/447401/F1_China_2013_Hamilton_taken_ill/)
He will be fine come tomorrow no doubt, he's a fit chappy.

Mercedes have a good chance here, so here's to a one two for them. Obviously without team orders this time!! :p

[dj_bytedisaster]

OK thanks, I still cant get the purpose. I'm not that technical though.Lol. Maybe what I'm asking is does it give any advantage to drivers to overtake or how they perform in the race? I'm asking this because what I read is that it promotes "overtaking", and somehow all I read in forums is that it loses the competitive aspect of the sport, making it unexciting. I still cant comprehend which is true.

Basically it allows the driver to open a flap on the rear wing within the DRS-Zone. That reduces aerodynamic drag for the car nd gives higher top speed than the car in front. In essence it gives an artificial advantage to the car behind and allows for relatively easy overtaking, which is why some people consider it too artificial.

[Zico]

OK thanks, I still cant get the purpose. I'm not that technical though.Lol. Maybe what I'm asking is does it give any advantage to drivers to overtake or how they perform in the race? I'm asking this because what I read is that it promotes "overtaking", and somehow all I read in forums is that it loses the competitive aspect of the sport, making it unexciting. I still cant comprehend which is true.

In adition to DJ's description.. Without DRS- Imagine driver B is faster than the car in front but can't get close enough to make the pass because his aerodynamics are adversely affected by the 'dirty' air from the car in front. With DRS- Once activated by race control after 2-3 laps DRS somewhat negates this and allows driver B to get past if he can get to within 1 second by the DRS activation zone. Once past driver B can then pull away and stay out in front if he can pull out a 1 second + lead before the DRS zone on the next lap... or be passed again by driver A.

I've nothing against DRS itself, it's necessary because of Aero and I see it as the lesser of the two evils... but combine it with the very fragile 'joke' tyres that deteriorate very quickly unless treated with great care and you are left with very artificial strategic racing, it's effectively endurance racing... not what F1 should be about in my opinion.

[airshifter]

OK thanks, I still cant get the purpose. I'm not that technical though.Lol. Maybe what I'm asking is does it give any advantage to drivers to overtake or how they perform in the race? I'm asking this because what I read is that it promotes "overtaking", and somehow all I read in forums is that it loses the competitive aspect of the sport, making it unexciting. I still cant comprehend which is true.

I think you seem to have a good grasp of the system and the intentions behind it. As stated by Zico above, it's more a matter of whether it makes the sport artificial or not.

For many years engineers spent a great deal of effort making sure that the "dirty air" created in the wake of the car made it next to impossible to overcome the disruption on the following cars aerodynamics. A number of rules changes lessened this effect, but it was still very hard to pass even a slower car. So it was not uncommon to see an obviously faster car and driver combination catch up to a can in front, but often not be able to pass.

I personally think that used properly DRS has it's place in the sport. Prior to DRS it had reached a point where aero games could keep the obviously quicker cars moving through the pack stuck behind a car in front.

[dj_bytedisaster]

The soft tires were absolutely ridiculous in FP2. The race could become a real farce. They practically disintegrated after like two laps :S

[wedge]

Man, those option tyres really suck. It's going to be like Oz all over again when you can accumulate the first stint with one hand.

Softs, Mediums and Hards - if allocated conservatively and still get decent racing.

[Tazio]

I hope this "era" (puky tire compounds) soon goes into the annals of F1 history as just a bad experiment, because it may end up that someone gets injured due to staying out on a set of funky soft’s a lap too long, and that with bro really suck!

[steveaki13]

Agree about these tyres. F1 is headind down a dangerous path with this dictating so much of the story of F1 in 2011 and 2012 and now 2013,

I really think its time to have a new tyre war with no mandatory stops and maybe bring back refueling? Just my opinion, but I am finding myself becoming less excited by F1 these days.

And dont get me started on DRS. (Again) :D

[gloomyDAY]

Perez gave me flashbacks of 2007! Here's an album: Photo Album - Imgur (http://imgur.com/a/H77DJ)

Enjoy!

[dj_bytedisaster]

Agree about these tyres. F1 is headind down a dangerous path with this dictating so much of the story of F1 in 2011 and 2012 and now 2013,

I really think its time to have a new tyre war with no mandatory stops and maybe bring back refueling? Just my opinion, but I am finding myself becoming less excited by F1 these days.

And dont get me started on DRS. (Again) :D

F1 is just going the same path that most things in our society go. Everything is becoming non-competetive. Back in my day we had school sports and you got an A for running the mile really fast. These days you can choose not to have school sports at all and if you have, you get an A for not falling over.
When I started watching F1, you had 6 or 7 engine suppliers, so many cars they had to do pre-qualifying and a development war on all fronts. Tracks had a soul and history instead of being copy-cat tilke-dromes with so wide paved run-off areas that driver errors don't really matter any more. F1 has mirrored the development of our society. Did we once go by the survival of the fittest and brightest, we now stunt them, so they don't exceed the level of the weak and the stupid, lest they make them feel bad.

[gloomyDAY]

F1 has mirrored the development of our society. Did we once go by the survival of the fittest and brightest, we now stunt them, so they don't exceed the level of the weak and the stupid, lest they make them feel bad.Thank you, Philosopher dj_byteDISASTER.

[Robinho]

Fascinating session we're having!

Sent from the North Korea using the dark network

[pino]

Ups no more fuel in Webber car, what a joke :s

[longisland]

This is dispicable! Third time Mark's been short changed by RBR. For crying out loud, RBR, It's silly to pretend both drivers are given equal treatment

[Koz]

What happened to Webber??
I missed pretty much all Q1 and Q2.

[Ranger]

What happened to Webber??
I missed pretty much all Q1 and Q2.

Ran out of fuel.

[dj_bytedisaster]

This is dispicable! Third time Mark's been short changed by RBR. For crying out loud, RBR, It's silly to pretend both drivers are given equal treatment

Last year at Abu Dhabi, Vettel was "short changed" bang smack in the middle of the hot title fight. They gambled and they lost just as Vettel and Hamilton last year.

[Robinho]

Surely its worth going out and doing a lap on the harder tyres. Assuming not everyone bothers to do a lap, you'll end up well up the grid and on the right tyres

Sent from North Korea using the dark network

[Robinho]

Apparently I was not the only one to think that!

Sent from North Korea using the dark network

[The Black Knight]

Interesting qualifying even if it wasn't the most exciting due to those gammy Pirelli tires. Still, I have to eat my words, I thought that Rosberg would outqualify him in China but he didn't. Super stuff from Hamilton.

[kfzmeister]

I like that result. Vettel in 9th and Alonso outruns Massa. Buahahaha....
Imagine if Massa outperformed him for a 5th time. Alonso could have just quit F1. ;)
Great for Hamilton. He's clearly putting it to The Rosberg. Unfortunately, his tires will degrade in the race. So, my money is on Kimi racing Alonso for the win. Me thinks that Ferrari will get it done.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Surely its worth going out and doing a lap on the harder tyres. Assuming not everyone bothers to do a lap, you'll end up well up the grid and on the right tyres

Sent from North Korea using the dark network

Having brand spanking new hards can easily make up a few positions, especially when the softs turn into pixie dust after 5 miles.

[kfzmeister]

Poor Webber, probably will end up back of the grid due to not enough fuel for a sample. :dozey:

[ShiftingGears]

That was an irritating stuff-up with Webber's car, but I honestly have no idea what to expect from tomorrows race. I don't think I've ever watched a grand prix with tyres that degrade as quickly as these softs do.

[longisland]

I m sure the short fueling wasn't premeditated but the timing of the incident somehow put a nail in the coffin. I hated the way Ferrari was operated in the Todt-Brawn-Schumacher. Everyone was on Mclaren's side when Alonso didn't have his way in getting the no 1 driver status. The difference is both teams were clear from day one on their team policy. With RBR, Horner doesn't command any respect from Seb and he's still frantically pretending he's in charge. RBR is clearly favoring Seb and I have no problem with that. But for RBR's sake stop being a hypocrite

[A FONDO]

Seems like it's going to be interesting tomorrow :)

[steveaki13]

Good job from Lewis and Kimi but with the softer tyres on, I am not sure if its worth getting pole as after about 5 laps they are all going to be 10th backwards.

With these tyres it appears Qualifying is becoming pointless.


As for Mark. Well its was important for Red Bull to make sure Webber cant try for some revenge so best to get him as far away as possible.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Poor Webber, probably will end up back of the grid due to not enough fuel for a sample. :dozey:

Horner claimed afterwards that there was actually a leak. If that's true, they shouldn't be punished. The thing I wonder about is that RB said a couple of days ago that Mark was actually short on fuel at Malaysia, too (so not only the Mercs). Could it be that Webbo's style is a bit harder on the tank's contents?

[dj_bytedisaster]

As for Mark. Well its was important for Red Bull to make sure Webber cant try for some revenge so best to get him as far away as possible.

I don't think that's more than an outlandish conspiracy theory. They were prepared to order the reignin champ to play #2 for the sake of constructor's points. Why should they now throw them away by stranding Mark in Q2? I think they either gambled with a marginal load and lost or there was a technical fault.
And it isn't the first time they messed up refuelling either. Vettel went to the back because of it last year at Abu Dhabi and the same happened to Lewis at Barcelona. Seems to happen in the noblest families...

[steveaki13]

It was said tongue firmly in cheek. ;)

[Ranger]

Speaking of sabotaging to the detriment of constructor's points:

[quote="Bernie Ecclestone"]
&#8220]
Ecclestone slams Red Bull tactics (http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorsport/ecclestone-slams-red-bull-tactics-20130326-2grdx.html)

Red Bull probably just made an honest screw-up here... although with impeccable timing to lend itself to a conspiracy theory.

But don't think every team doesn't have the capacity nor will to sabotage one driver for the sake of another.

[steveaki13]

:laugh: Bernie.

Fair play

[P3ws]

Webbos last season at RB. For sure.
How can he or anyone else for that matter just put this behind......

[dj_bytedisaster]

Speaking of sabotaging to the detriment of constructor's points:


Ecclestone slams Red Bull tactics (http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorsport/ecclestone-slams-red-bull-tactics-20130326-2grdx.html)


Red Bull probably just made an honest screw-up here... although with impeccable timing to lend itself to a conspiracy theory.

But don't think every team doesn't have the capacity nor will to sabotage one driver for the sake of another.

I wouldn't listen to that man. The last time he's been sane, Nixon was still President...

[CNR]

f1.com Webber originally qualified 14th but moved to the back of the grid for failing to provide a one-litre fuel sample after qualifying Q: has some little Fwit threated to quit if beaten by webber

[dj_bytedisaster]

f1.com Webber originally qualified 14th but moved to the back of the grid for failing to provide a one-litre fuel sample after qualifying Q: has some little Fwit threated to quit if beaten by webber

Q: has some little dwit failed to find an outlet for his hatred?

[jens]

I don't really see the benefit of opting for medium tyres like Button and Vettel have done, if you need to use both sets of tyres anyway. Like we saw with Sutil in Australia, the end of the race can be painful with a good position slipping through your hands if you run the worse tyres in the end. I'd like to get rid of them in the beginning. :) Ok, maybe except in Monaco, where you'd like to try to hold everyone up at the end of the race, like Vettel did in 2011 in different circumstances.

Anyway, I guess Kimi's best qualifying position since his comeback. And encouraging effort considering he has often lost better race positions due to compromised grid position. A golden opportunity to capitalize now.

Ricciardo also impressive. He really needs to get a string of similar performances together now to catch the attention of top teams.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I don't really see the benefit of opting for medium tyres like Button and Vettel have done, if you need to use both sets of tyres anyway.

Those, who start on the comedy softs will have to pit after 5-7 laps, so they will drop back right into midfield traffic and are likely to lose quite some time. If you can avoid switching to the bubble gum tires until 5 laps from home, you have a better chance of making it as the track will be well rubbered in by then.
The softs are much more ridicuous here than the softer compund was at Melbourne.

[AndyL]

Those, who start on the comedy softs will have to pit after 5-7 laps, so they will drop back right into midfield traffic and are likely to lose quite some time. If you can avoid switching to the bubble gum tires until 5 laps from home, you have a better chance of making it as the track will be well rubbered in by then.

Plus the benefit of running them when light on fuel of course.

[AndyL]

I'm pretty surprised that Vettel didn't go for a time on the softs, I thought he might have the potential to start on the second row there. For McLaren, Sauber and Torro Rosso that Q3 tactic was more expected. Sets up an interesting race anyway. The key for the first guys on primes will be taking it really easy to start with, so they have something left to make the most of the clear air when they get it.

[Tazio]

Poor Webber, probably will end up back of the grid due to not enough fuel for a sample. :dozey: RB behaving like dorkminder's :crazy: :p :

[Zico]

Plus the benefit of running them when light on fuel of course.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I can understand Button doing it but yep was also very surprised at Seb, I can only imagine that they didn't think they would get beyond the third row and decided to take a calculated gamble. It could yet turn out to be a master stroke of genius... can't wait to see how it plays out tomorow.

[pino]

Final starting grid for tomorrow :

1. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes
2. Kimi Raikkonen Lotus-Renault
3. Fernando Alonso Ferrari
4. Nico Rosberg Mercedes
5. Felipe Massa Ferrari
6. Romain Grosjean Lotus-Renault
7. Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso-Ferrari
8. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes
9. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault
10. Nico Hulkenberg Sauber-Ferrari
11. Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes
12. Sergio Perez McLaren-Mercedes
13. Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes
14. Pastor Maldonado Williams-Renault
15. Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso-Ferrari
16. Valtteri Bottas Williams-Renault
17. Esteban Gutierrez Sauber-Ferrari
18. Jules Bianchi Marussia-Cosworth
19. Max Chilton Marussia-Cosworth
20. Charles Pic Caterham-Renault
21. Giedo van der Garde Caterham-Renault
22. Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault

[pino]

Final starting grid for tomorrow :

1. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes
2. Kimi Raikkonen Lotus-Renault
3. Fernando Alonso Ferrari
4. Nico Rosberg Mercedes
5. Felipe Massa Ferrari
6. Romain Grosjean Lotus-Renault
7. Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso-Ferrari
8. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes
9. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault
10. Nico Hulkenberg Sauber-Ferrari
11. Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes
12. Sergio Perez McLaren-Mercedes
13. Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes
14. Pastor Maldonado Williams-Renault
15. Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso-Ferrari
16. Valtteri Bottas Williams-Renault
17. Esteban Gutierrez Sauber-Ferrari
18. Jules Bianchi Marussia-Cosworth
19. Max Chilton Marussia-Cosworth
20. Charles Pic Caterham-Renault
21. Giedo van der Garde Caterham-Renault
22. Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault

[Tazio]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpZ3jPMM5Ac](HQ)[/url] Best Version of "Battle Hymn of the Republic" EVER! Mormon Tabernacle Choir + Lyrics - YouTube

[truefan72]

That's exactly what I was thinking. I can understand Button doing it but yep was also very surprised at Seb, I can only imagine that they didn't think they would get beyond the third row and decided to take a calculated gamble. It could yet turn out to be a master stroke of genius... can't wait to see how it plays out tomorow.

and you also run into the possibility of a first lap incident by running p6 and down, p9 is right in the middle of the dangerzone IMO the top guys will probably get away cleanly while the back end of the top 10 and wild card ricciado will surely make for an interesting first few corners. That being said, Kimi vs Alonso at the start has not ended well in recent races, and Massa seems to be able to make excellent starts these days.

Watch out for the Button/Vettel/Hulkenberg duel too.
Vettel has not shown to be the best guy starting in a pack, or running in a pack

[Tazio]

^^^ agree with all of this and will only ad that this is in addition to having three guys at the front all WDCs that the first stint should be a very interesting look for both Ferraris attacking hopeing (with Kimi's help) to get the boss to have to push and we wii see how well those rears hold out on the Merc package! :dork:

[gloomyDAY]

Photos from qualifying: Photo Album - Imgur (http://imgur.com/a/r5vVC)

[dj_bytedisaster]

and you also run into the possibility of a first lap incident by running p6 and down, p9 is right in the middle of the dangerzone IMO the top guys will probably get away cleanly while the back end of the top 10 and wild card ricciado will surely make for an interesting first few corners. That being said, Kimi vs Alonso at the start has not ended well in recent races, and Massa seems to be able to make excellent starts these days.

Watch out for the Button/Vettel/Hulkenberg duel too.
Vettel has not shown to be the best guy starting in a pack, or running in a pack

It's a bit of a gamble, true. But considering that RB has been of somewhat lackluster form all weekend, it's the best shot they have. A 2nd or 3rd row start on those ridiculousd Maoam tires would have been even worse. With their crazy-arse low top-/high cornering-speed characteristics, the RB's need to get into the lead. Starting ninth with only Ricciardo and Button to wrestle down is the best shot they have to get to the front, especially if 'Nando & Co. do them the favour of losing time in the midfield pack. Button, Ricciardo, Vettel and Hulk will get to the pointy end of the pack by default, when the Maoam-shod cars have to dive in after a handful of laps. Lewis, Nando & Co will have to wrestle past the midfielders after pitting and, as Sutil so aptly proved at Melbourne, actually trying to race with this year's Pirelli's is not the best idea. They are only good for cruising, which Vettel & Co can do if they survive the first lap.

[wmcot]

I hear that RB had to take the 3kg of fuel from Mark's car and put it in Vettel's! ;)

[Tazio]

I predict a 7-12 lap first stint from those starting on options. :dozey:

[airshifter]

The tires are a gamble regardless. Those in the top cars on the harder tires may fall prey to cars behind them, and have little if any chance of staying up with the cars in front. If they average close to 1 second slower it's going to be really hard not to shuffle back once DRS is activated.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I predict a 7-12 lap first stint from those starting on options. :dozey:

12 laps is extremely optimistic isn't it? By that time the lap times will be measured in geological units.

[kfzmeister]

Interesting article/ quote from Bernie. He's helping fuel the self destruct fire at RB with his comments. If they really did deliberately underfuel Webo's car, they certainly did not maximize Vettel's gain from it. Poor guy has to start from 9th? Is Grosjean nearby? Lol

Edit: Mark now reported to start from pitlane. They changed gear ratios, gearbox and suspension ! :eek:

[ShiftingGears]

12 laps is extremely optimistic isn't it? By that time the lap times will be measured in geological units.

I wasn't aware they were even lasting seven laps in practice.

[Koz]

Edit: Mark now reported to start from pitlane. They changed gear ratios, gearbox and suspension ! :eek:

As expected same strategy as Abu Dhabi. If we have a few Safety Cars, we might yet see a good finish from Webbo.

[Tazio]

I wasn't aware they were even lasting seven laps in practice.

I'm going out on a limb, but I think that a few cars starting on dption will be running 7 laps and more through conservation. These are somewhat long laps at Shanghai however. :uhoh: :p :

QuakeNet Web IRC (qwebirc) (http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=f1technical)

[steveaki13]

Morning people

[pino]

Morning everyone :)

[steveaki13]

I think anywhere from about laps 5-8 or 9 will see most drivers on softs pit.

It is really all about those on hard tyres and how late they can leave it before switching to softs. Obviously a SC and you would probably see everyone pit, but if at the end of the race you can only do 4-5 laps on softs you might pass some people, however if you have to pit 10+laps from the end of the race, I think a Sutil Oz style srop could happen.

[donKey jote]

morning gurlz :D

[Tazio]

Hello Persons :s ailor:

[Tazio]

When is Fred going to get the call to let Felipe through? :)

[Koz]

Hello.

[Koz]

Terrible Kimi

[steveaki13]

Cheeky Felipe

[longisland]

Fernando, Feilipe is faster than you

[Tazio]

Fred punks The Boss

[Tazio]

Freakin' rude pass by Flelipe!

[Koz]

Webber is in a very good place by the looks of this now.

[Tazio]

Slash in flames :eek:

[steveaki13]

Gutierrez slashing Slash.

[longisland]

Awesome pit work from Mercedes. Provisional donkey Gutierrez

[steveaki13]

Not sure you need DRS along that huge straight. Its far too easy.

[Koz]

Vettel willcome out just behind Webber if things stand. Might be interesting.

[Tazio]

Fred punks Checo, has dropped Felipe like a bad habnut!

[Koz]

And the fun begins!

[donKey jote]

box box box :eek:

[donKey jote]

go webber :D

[donKey jote]

sheesh :rolleyes:

[Koz]

Donkey Webber!

[steveaki13]

Red Bull made Mark drive into the Toro Rosso to get him out of Sebs way

[donKey jote]

kimi sheesh :rolleyes:

[Tazio]

Kimi Man!

[donKey jote]

perez did a donkey again?

[steveaki13]

Now Kimi into Perez.


Webber out. All going crazy

[Tazio]

This has turned into a freakin' blood-bath :eek:

[Koz]

LOL!

Who said 3 wheels?!

[donKey jote]

bejaysus :crazy:

[steveaki13]

Who said they would only put 3 wheels on Marks Car? Someone got it right

[Koz]

The damage isn't affecting Kimi. Laptimes a good.

[longisland]

I hope RBR is happy now. So the wheel would have gone off even if the contact w Vergne didn't happen

[steveaki13]

It was Valve who predicted Marks Reliant adventures. Congrats you should win an award.

[Koz]

Rosberg out?

[steveaki13]

A couple of points

Button is doing a solid job and going loooooooooong.


Mercedes are falling into a 2012 situation. Fast in Quali, but are falling back alarmingly now in the race. :(

[donKey jote]

aww barbie :(

[Koz]

Why after the race?
What BS.

So no difference for this race but they get penalties for the next race?

[donKey jote]

alo hammer :D

[donKey jote]

Seb: Alonso is faster than you :p

[steveaki13]

Button asking "Do we want to fight" :dozey:

Rocky saying "Seb dont waste time fighting Alono" :dozey:


Kind of suggests F1s heading the wrong way.

[Tazio]

alo hammer :D

Snap ;)

[donKey jote]

Vettel obeys for once... the wuss ! :p

[donKey jote]

massa really needs to get past di resta :s

[steveaki13]

Pic and Bianchi only just over a minute behind on lap 30 and less than 10 seconds behind Maldonado.

Impressive drives from those two

[andyone]

Force India is pain if in front of you. They are fast

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[donKey jote]

massa you wuss :mad: :p

[dj_bytedisaster]

'Nando looks invincible, wow

[Tazio]

Felipe Baby :up:

[dj_bytedisaster]

LOL, half the field under investigation for DRS under yellow. Looks like the stewards have to work for their money for once :D

[donKey jote]

"I'm not pushing" :laugh:

[dj_bytedisaster]

'Fernando, no need to push' - what has F1 come to http://files.homepagemodules.de/b168419/f2t3p111n141.gif

[dj_bytedisaster]

Vettel waiting until 4 laps from home before switching to the Maoam's - says it all really...

[Tazio]

what has F1 come to http://files.homepagemodules.de/b168419/f2t3p111n141.gif
It's what is commonly referred to as a thorough ass whippin' by Fred.

[steveaki13]

Bianchi just been lapped at last, but on the tail of both Williams

[donKey jote]

just what the gnome wanted: excitement in the last laps :D

[steveaki13]

Seb coming for a podium

[Koz]

Come on lewis!

[Koz]

Omg who won!

[donKey jote]

ALO :D :bananas:

stoopid pirelli though... vettel almost got his podium :mad: :p

[Koz]

WOW!

[dj_bytedisaster]

Great job by Fernando and even some artificial excitement in the last laps between Lewis and Seb :D

[tfp]

Phew, falling off the edge of my seat there! Well done Hamilton, nice one!

[pino]

Fenomenale Alonso ! :up:

[Tazio]

Gret stuff from The Boss, and Seb. Hy pickems are looking pretty freakin' good :champion:

[tfp]

That was intense! These tyres that everyone complain about, really make good racing!

[donKey jote]

Tomaaaa :D

[truefan72]

Blue flags
Blue Flags!!!

lol

Hamilton desperately hangs on to 3rd

congrats Alonso, Kimi, Hamilton, ricciado
(in that order)

Thumbs down to DiResta for taking his teammate out
unforgivable

lets wait and see if the stewards are brave enough to asses proper penalties for vettel and co for DRS violations
I see nothing less than a time penalty to be given and perhaps even more

using DRS in yellow flag situation and when disabled is not something to be taken lightly

EDIT**
Kimi is also under investigation for DRS fracas

so we shall see

[donKey jote]

excellent podium... the three best drivers in the right order for once :andrea: :D

[gloomyDAY]

Thumbs down to DiResta for taking his teammate out
unforgivableWhat? Sutil pushed DiResta out, and then Gutierrez plowed into Sutil.

[Tazio]

Fenomenale Alonso ! :up: yea' babe!


Hail Caesar:

http://www.elpais.com/recorte/20061029elpepudep_3/XLCO/Ies/Fernando_Alonso_recibe_calor_Oviedo.jpg

[donKey jote]

tiririri tiririri tiririri
tororoooo tirorirorooooo

[donKey jote]

pararpapapá

[dj_bytedisaster]

using DRS in yellow flag situation and when disabled is not something to be taken lightly

Shouldn't that be technically impossible? I thought the DRS was enabled/disabled remotely?

[donKey jote]

nice private celebration :kiss: :laugh:

[kfzmeister]

My Man. :D
Nice to not see Vettel on the podium (I think Coulthard is happy about that as well).

[steveaki13]

DC offending China (possibly he said), almost caught the drivers slating Pirelli and then made Alonso blush.

Nice questioning.

[donKey jote]

@meister: konkret ! :D

[Tazio]

excellent podium... the three best drivers in the right order for once :andrea: :D Yep I got p1-4 correct on my pickems............Sorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrry.

[kfzmeister]

Massa 50 sec down! :blackeye:

[AndyL]

Did anyone catch the complete list of drivers under investigation for DRSing under yellows?
I hope they don't alter the race result. When you get that many people under investigation for the same offence, you have to wonder if the problem is with the offence rather than the people.

[steveaki13]

We have to watch out for penalties for DRSing in yellow zone.


Not that I like changing the race result, but surely as the danger of overtaking under yellows was in this race the penalties need to be in this race, otherwise people will think they can just push under yellows and just start 10 places down in the next race.

They need to cut it out from the race it happens. For me.

[truefan72]

What? Sutil pushed DiResta out, and then Gutierrez plowed into Sutil.

apologies if that was the case,i thought it was the other way around
so, then naughty Sutil!

[dj_bytedisaster]

Did anyone catch the complete list of drivers under investigation for DRSing under yellows?
I hope they don't alter the race result. When you get that many people under investigation for the same offence, you have to wonder if the problem is with the offence rather than the people.

Since the DRS is supposed to be disabled remotely, I would hazard a guess that they still haven't solved the to-car transmission problem they've been having since Melbourne.

[Ranger]

Did anyone catch the complete list of drivers under investigation for DRSing under yellows?
I hope they don't alter the race result. When you get that many people under investigation for the same offence, you have to wonder if the problem is with the offence rather than the people.

I've heard it mentioned that the drivers were told they have to self-police the issue.

[AndyL]

Since the DRS is supposed to be disabled remotely, I would hazard a guess that they still haven't solved the to-car transmission problem they've been having since Melbourne.

Looks that way doesn't it.

[Roamy]

Alonso is by far the best driver in F1 at the the present and he ranks up there with the best ever.

[AndyL]

Not that I like changing the race result, but surely as the danger of overtaking under yellows was in this race the penalties need to be in this race, otherwise people will think they can just push under yellows and just start 10 places down in the next race.

Arguably merely using DRS under yellows is not as severe an offence as overtaking under yellows. As far as I know they are not being cited for overtaking.

[N4D13]

Alonso is by far the best driver in F1 at the the present and he ranks up there with the best ever.
Well, whether he is the best driver is arguable - although it's something I agree with. But I find it difficult to agree with the by far bit. Not to take away from (yet another) exceptional performance, but he's had everything going his way today.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Arguably merely using DRS under yellows is not as severe an offence as overtaking under yellows. As far as I know they are not being cited for overtaking.

It depends on the lap times. In the past people have usually been let off the hook if the sector time in the yellow-zone has been significantly slower than what they were able to do on 'free' laps. If there is a technical problem though, it becomes a bit murky. DRS has been around for some time now and drivers are 'conditioned' to push the DRS button in the DRS zone, relying on the flap not opening when the DRS is disabled. If that mechanism is suddenly broken, it can be expected that people fall into a trap. The sheer number of people under investigation makes such a scenario plausible.

[Tazio]

tiririri tiririri tiririri
tororoooo tirorirorooooohttp://i46.tinypic.com/hv9ul3.gif :s ailor: :dork: :andrea:

[Tazio]

nice private celebration :kiss: :laugh: I think Fred's new stink is under age.............but who cares? :bandit: :p imp:

[dj_bytedisaster]

I think Fred's new stink is under age.............but who cares? :bandit: :p imp:

Nope she isn't. Quite well known in Russia and quite old enough to buy booze :D

[Roamy]

I think Fred's new stink is under age.............but who cares? :bandit: :p imp:

I'd do her in a heart beat and that is probably about how long I would last :eek: :) ;)

[truefan72]

I am desperately trying to stay awake to hear what the stewards verdict is on the DRS
but alas, sleep is getting the better of me :(

[faster69]

Alonso is by far the best driver in F1 at the the present and he ranks up there with the best ever.

he's probably the third best on the grid. ahead of kimi. only 31 wins since 2001. had a competitive car every year except 2001 and didn't race 2002. 2008 (let's not speak about one of those wins) and 09 he was in a poor car but that was self-inflicted.

was matched by trulli in 04. would be a one-time champ if kimi had just a little reliability in 05. then again, could have been a four-time champ if he was good enough to pass a renault and if he beat his rookie teammate.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I am desperately trying to stay awake to hear what the stewards verdict is on the DRS
but alas, sleep is getting the better of me :(

I wouldn't torture myself. With so many ppl under investigation, it'll take some time...

[AndyL]

5 place grid penalty for Gutierrez for nuzzling up against Sutil.

Just those other 7 or 8 things for the stewards to deal with now.

[steveaki13]

he's probably the third best on the grid. ahead of kimi. only 31 wins since 2001. had a competitive car every year except 2001 and didn't race 2002. 2008 (let's not speak about one of those wins) and 09 he was in a poor car but that was self-inflicted.

was matched by trulli in 04. would be a one-time champ if kimi had just a little reliability in 05. then again, could have been a four-time champ if he was good enough to pass a force india and if he beat his rookie teammate.

Dont rate Fred then

[dj_bytedisaster]

he's probably the third best on the grid. ahead of kimi. only 31 wins since 2001. had a competitive car every year except 2001 and didn't race 2002. 2008 (let's not speak about one of those wins) and 09 he was in a poor car but that was self-inflicted.

was matched by trulli in 04. would be a one-time champ if kimi had just a little reliability in 05. then again, could have been a four-time champ if he could have passed a force india and if he could have beaten his rookie teammate.

Let's not get into mud slinging, ok? Fernando isn't as god-like as Roamy made out, but he's also not even remotely as ordinary as you suggest. Fernando is one heck of a racer, he qualified minardi's in 15th positions and Renault's rise to power was mainly his doing and he ended the boring Schumacher era. You don't do that by being mediocre.
But as everyone else, he has to sit down to take a sh*t. He wasn't exactly brilliant at Malaysia, but given the chance and a suitable car, he's unbeatable on his day, like today.

[faster69]

Let's not get into mud slinging, ok? Fernando isn't as god-like as Roamy made out, but he's also not even remotely as ordinary as you suggest. Fernando is one heck of a racer, he qualified minardi's in 15th positions and Renault's rise to power was mainly his doing and he ended the boring Schumacher era. You don't do that by being mediocre.
But as everyone else, he has to sit down to take a sh*t. He wasn't exactly brilliant at Malaysia, but given the chance and a suitable car, he's unbeatable on his day, like today.

he's third best in an era where he was against the greatest of all-time and potentially the greatest of all-time (vettel). not to mention that hamilton is as quick as vettel on his day, but probably not as strong mentally or intelligent.

i'm hardly saying he's ordinary by saying he's third best on the grid.

[dj_bytedisaster]

he's third best in an era where he was against the greatest of all-time and potentially the greatest of all-time (vettel). not to mention that hamilton is as quick as vettel on his day, but probably not as strong mentally or intelligent.

i'm hardly saying he's ordinary by saying he's third best on the grid.

Fernando has shown extra-ordinary achievements in three teams (Minardi, Renault, Ferrari) and Vettel in two (Toro Rosso, RB). How you come to the conclusion that vettel is so much better seems to be your secret. Lewis, Fernando and Seb are all great racers and probably better than most of their peers, but establishing an 'order' among them seems a bit arbitrary, doesn't it?

[Tazio]

Synchronized overtaking :cool:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqInD8CNQqM

[A FONDO]

Synchronized overtaking :cool:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqInD8CNQqM

Not sitting, rather hatching duck :D

[Tazio]

I am desperately trying to stay awake to hear what the stewards verdict is on the DRS
but alas, sleep is getting the better of me :(

There may be an issue with whether or not yellow flags were visable :confused:

http://www.savonsanomat.fi/incoming/2013/04/12/4929096.jpg/BINARY/w800/4929096.jpg

[dj_bytedisaster]

Rotflmao

[naffnaff]

3 place grid penalty for Webber for the collision with Vergne.

[Ranger]

only 31 wins since 2001.

Wins versus team-mates:


Fernando 31 - 7 (4.4 to 1)
Lewis 21 - 15 (1.4 to 1)
Sebastian 27 - 9 (3.0 to 1)
Kimi 20 - 14 (1.4 to 1)
Jenson 15 - 12 (1.3 to 1)

Food for thought.

[N4D13]

3 place grid penalty for Webber for the collision with Vergne.
So was Gutierrez (5-place grid penalty). Chinese GP: Esteban Gutierrez punished for Adrian Sutil clash - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106757)

[faster69]

Fernando has shown extra-ordinary achievements in three teams (Minardi, Renault, Ferrari) and Vettel in two (Toro Rosso, RB). How you come to the conclusion that vettel is so much better seems to be your secret. Lewis, Fernando and Seb are all great racers and probably better than most of their peers, but establishing an 'order' among them seems a bit arbitrary, doesn't it?

i wouldn't say extraordinary at renault. trulli beat him in 2004 and really kimi should have won in 2005. 2006 was well deserved. he and schumacher were almost faultless.

at ferrari i think simply having massa as teammate skews what he's done. massa is clearly a shadow of the guy that ended kimi's career at ferrari and seems almost disinterested at times. 2010 alonso had a good enough car and it was his championship to win with two races to go, but the guy in his third full season was the one who was able to respond best to the pressure. alonso choked at abu dhabi plain and simple. 2011 fair enough he didn't have the car, but 2012, i have never seen a driver have as charmed a run as alonso did. he didn't have a quick car but he had decent pace over an entire race, the ferrari was good off the line, webber would have a drs problem, mclaren would destroy hamilton's race and all of a sudden he was in 2nd or 3rd. from there he'd drive strong, consistent race but frankly nothing a vettel or hamilton wouldn't have done.

even his wins were just wins, not these other worldly performances. perez was quicker than him in malaysia, valencia he relied on vettel breaking down and the timing of the safety car, and germany he was helped by the ferrari being good in the wet so was able to get it on pole (got it on pole in the wet at silverstone too).

vettel won in a toro rosso, finished 4th in brazil that year, and look what he's done at red bull. alonso slotted into ferrari and hasn't been able to get it done. so far he hasn't got any closer to winning a championship at ferrari than massa did in 08.

[faster69]

Wins versus team-mates:


Fernando 31 - 7 (4.4 to 1)
Lewis 21 - 15 (1.4 to 1)
Sebastian 27 - 9 (3.0 to 1)
Kimi 20 - 14 (1.4 to 1)
Jenson 15 - 12 (1.3 to 1)

Food for thought.

yes, but massa clearly not being the same driver skews these comparisons.

but if you wanna do comparisons with teammates then i could bring up massa beating him four straight times. the old massa never did anything like that to schumacher (schumacher blew him away in qualifying) and didn't do it to kimi (despite beating him head to head). it's damning on alonso, especially when you consider what was up for grabs in the final two races of last season.

[dj_bytedisaster]

i wouldn't say extraordinary at renault. trulli beat him in 2004 and really kimi should have won in 2005. 2006 was well deserved. he and schumacher were almost faultless.

at ferrari i think simply having massa as teammate skews what he's done. massa is clearly a shadow of the guy that ended kimi's career at ferrari and seems almost disinterested at times. 2010 alonso had a good enough car and it was his championship to win with two races to go, but the guy in his third full season was the one who was able to respond best to the pressure. alonso choked at abu dhabi plain and simple. 2011 fair enough he didn't have the car, but 2012, i have never seen a driver have as charmed a run as alonso did. he didn't have a quick car but he had decent pace over an entire race, the ferrari was good off the line, webber would have a drs problem, mclaren would destroy hamilton's race and all of a sudden he was in 2nd or 3rd. from there he'd drive strong, consistent race but frankly nothing a vettel or hamilton wouldn't have done.

even his wins were just wins, not these other worldly performances. perez was quicker than him in malaysia, valencia he relied on vettel breaking down and the timing of the safety car, and germany he was helped by the ferrari being good in the wet so was able to get it in pole (got it on pole in the wet at silverstone too).

vettel won in a toro rosso, finished 4th in brazil that year, and look what he's done at red bull. alonso slotted into ferrari and hasn't been able to get it done. so far he hasn't got any closer to winning a championship at ferrari than massa did in 08.

Sorry man, I've been defending Seb against hate more than most around here and I definitely don't like Fernando much, but credits whre credits are due. If it comes down to raw achievement, Fernando is the best of the lot to this day. Lewis always had a front.running car and Seb shone in the 2008 Toro Rosso, which is quite an achievement but Fernando did things in the Minardi, both Seb and Lewis never had to do. He's a bloody great driver and putting him behind Seb and Lewis only because you hate him is unaccepatable. He's one of the greats of his time and he deserves to be recognized as such.

[faster69]

Sorry man, I've been defending Seb against hate more than most around here and I definitely don't like Fernando much, but credits whre credits are due. If it comes down to raw achievement, Fernando is the best of the lot to this day. Lewis always had a front.running car and Seb shone in the 2008 Toro Rosso, which is quite an achievement but Fernando did things in the Minardi, both Seb and Lewis never had to do. He's a bloody great driver and putting him behind Seb and Lewis only because you hate him is unaccepatable. He's one of the greats of his time and he deserves to be recognized as such.

hamilton was more impressive than alonso last year. he would have won the championship with 3-4 races remaining if he had reliability and mclaren weren't bungling pit stops. should have been hamilton vs vettel for the title.

hamilton had a car capable of winning in 2007, but alonso had the exact same car and couldn't get it done. what's more, alonso had just won two consecutive titles whereas hamilton had never raced in f1. lewis had a car good enough in 08, not a good enough car in 09, good enough in 10, he didn't have the car in 11 but he drove poorly, and last year it was his to win but the car completely let him down. he was faultless last season.

maybe alonso needs his bespoke michelin tyres...

[Ranger]

yes, but massa clearly not being the same driver skews these comparisons.

but if you wanna do comparisons with teammates then i could bring up massa beating him four straight times. the old massa never did anything like that to schumacher (schumacher blew him away in qualifying) and didn't do it to kimi (despite beating him head to head). it's damning on alonso, especially when you consider what was up for grabs in the final two races of last season.

You are making an argument out of four damning qualifying sessions, versus an entire career worth of results...

I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

[dj_bytedisaster]

if anything hamilton was more impressive than alonso last year. he would have won the championship with 3-4 races remaining if he had reliability and mclaren weren't bungling pit stops. should have been hamilton vs vettel for the title.

hamilton had a car capable of winning in 2007, but alonso had the exact same car and couldn't get it done. what's more, alonso had just won two consecutive titles while hamilton had never raced in f1. lewis had a car good enough in 08, not a good enough car in 09, good enough in 10, he didn't have the car in 11 but he drove poorly, and last year it was his to win but the car completely let him down. he was faultless last season.

Bloody Norah, you get on my non-existing tits. I never had much love for people, who need to hate other drivers to make the subject of their wet dreams look good. Look at last years races - Fernando took the fight to the last race in a car that should have been dead by mid-season. Granted that Ferrari 'helped' by despicable means like the blantant grid manipulation at Austin, but even the biggest hater can't find any fault in 'nando's driving last year. He was simply sublime.
Stop it. We have enough hatred around here. If you can't keep a halfway neutral view on F1, please open your own hatred forum. We have way too much of that around here as it is.

[naffnaff]

Looks like no action for DRS infringments. Will be interesting to see the full ruling as seems to be inconsistent with penalties from last year.

[faster69]

You are making an argument out of four damning qualifying sessions, versus an entire career worth of results...

I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

i'm not sure if i'd use an entire career has proof of him being the best in the field. 31 wins from 201 races (30 wins if you don't count the one massa gave him). you have alonso getting beaten by trulli in 04 and matched by a rookie in 07, then out of nowhere massa beating him four straight times in qualifying. there's enough asterisks to not consider him number one on the grid, let alone one of the greatest ever. schumacher had 75 wins after 200 races.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Looks like no action for DRS infringments. Will be interesting to see the full ruling as seems to be inconsistent with penalties from last year.

I think the technical problems that have been persisting since Melbourne play a role in the decision to not take action. That's the thing, the artificial devices of F1 are starting to fail. Maybe getting rid of them would be an option

[Tazio]

F1Zone.net

Alonso's race winning time was 0.016s slower than Rosberg in 2012! 1h36m26.945s to 1h36m26.929s

[dj_bytedisaster]

F1Zone.net

Alonso's race winning time was 0.016s slower than Rosberg in 2012! 1h36m26.945s to 1h36m26.929s

So, improved cars still going slower because of Pirelli's **** tires. Get rid of them.

[faster69]

Bloody Norah, you get on my non-existing tits. I never had much love for people, who need to hate other drivers to make the subject of their wet dreams look good. Look at last years races - Fernando took the fight to the last race in a car that should have been dead by mid-season. Granted that Ferrari 'helped' by despicable means like the blantant grid manipulation at Austin, but even the biggest hater can't find any fault in 'nando's driving last year. He was simply sublime.
Stop it. We have enough hatred around here. If you can't keep a halfway neutral view on F1, please open your own hatred forum. We have way too much of that around here as it is.

i'm not hating. i'm complimenting alonso with being the third best on the grid.

[dj_bytedisaster]

i'm not hating. i'm complimenting alonso with being the third best on the grid.

Yeah sure...

[The Black Knight]

hamilton was more impressive than alonso last year. he would have won the championship with 3-4 races remaining if he had reliability and mclaren weren't bungling pit stops. should have been hamilton vs vettel for the title.

hamilton had a car capable of winning in 2007, but alonso had the exact same car and couldn't get it done. what's more, alonso had just won two consecutive titles whereas hamilton had never raced in f1. lewis had a car good enough in 08, not a good enough car in 09, good enough in 10, he didn't have the car in 11 but he drove poorly, and last year it was his to win but the car completely let him down. he was faultless last season.

maybe alonso needs his bespoke michelin tyres...

Those are some rosey-tinted glasses you have on there mate. Alonso was the best driver in F1 last year. His driving was Sennaesque. I've not been impressed with a driver throughout a whole entire season since Schumacher put it up to the McLaren't in 98 or Senna's driving in 93. Once you have a season like that you have proved that you are a great and Alonso more than proved it last year. I'm not even a fan of his, but I sure respect his ability behind the wheel of a F1 car. I'm a Hamilton fan but Hammy has a bit to prove before he can be classified as a great as does Vettel. Alonso doesn't.

[naffnaff]

I do think that the FIA and their contractors should be able to have DRS working properly especially considering that it did all of last year.
With regards to getting rid of it. Personally I am a fan of it. It really use to bug me that when someone was catching up on another driver you generally knew that no matter how much the commentator tried to build it up they were likely not to get pass. So its good now to know that passing is possible. However today's race was defiantly to far in the other direction and it was annoying to know that as soon as a driver caught up they would be past with minimal effort.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Those are some rosey-tinted glasses you have on there mate. Alonso was the best driver in F1 last year. His driving was Sennaesque. I've not been impressed with a driver throughout a whole entire season since Schumacher put it up to the McLaren't in 98 or Senna's driving in 93. Once you have a season like that you have proved that you are a great and Alonso more than proved it last year. I'm not even a fan of his, but I sure respect his ability behind the wheel of a F1 car. I'm a Hamilton fan but Hammy has a bit to prove before he can be classified as a great as does Vettel. Alonso doesn't.

^^^
What he said...

[Tazio]

I am desperately trying to stay awake to hear what the stewards verdict is on the DRS
but alas, sleep is getting the better of me :(
One minute delay for message transmission to teams.

https://twitter.com/JennieGow/status/323402002937827332

[faster69]

Those are some rosey-tinted glasses you have on there mate. Alonso was the best driver in F1 last year. His driving was Sennaesque. I've not been impressed with a driver throughout a whole entire season since Schumacher put it up to the McLaren't in 98 or Senna's driving in 93. Once you have a season like that you have proved that you are a great and Alonso more than proved it last year. I'm not even a fan of his, but I sure respect his ability behind the wheel of a F1 car. I'm a Hamilton fan but Hammy has a bit to prove before he can be classified as a great as does Vettel. Alonso doesn't.

what were alonso's stand out drives in 2012?

[dj_bytedisaster]

what were alonso's stand out drives in 2012?

Malasia to begin with. He won in an utterly mediocre car

[faster69]

Malasia to begin with. He won in an utterly mediocre car

i don't see that as a great win. it's not like schumacher lapping several seconds a lap quicker at spain 96. perez qualified behind alonso and was faster. alonso got lucky with hamilton being held up in the pits and perez making a silly error.

in dry conditions that ferrari was a slow car in those first four races. it had good race pace throughout the middle of the season and really good pace in the rain (malaysia, british and german qualifying, ferrari 2-3 brazil).

do you have another example?

[Zico]

i'm not hating. i'm complimenting alonso with being the third best on the grid.

Alonso is third best on the grid?... What?? Didn't you watch any F1 last season?

Personally I rate Alonso and Hamilton the highest, Hamilton is probably a ball hair quicker but Alonso the most complete and best all rounder.

[dj_bytedisaster]

i don't see that as a great win. it's not like schumacher lapping several seconds a lap quicker at spain 96. perez qualified behind alonso and was faster. alonso got lucky with hamilton being held up in the pits and perez making a silly error.

in dry conditions that ferrari was a slow car in those first four races. it had good race pace throughout the middle of the season and really good pace in the rain (malaysia, british and german qualifying, ferrari 2-3 brazil).

do you have another example?

Take a hammer and just kill yourself. Thank yooooo.

[faster69]

Alonso is third best on the grid?... What?? Didn't you watch any F1 last season?

Personally I rate Alonso and Hamilton the highest, Hamilton is probably a ball hair quicker but Alonso the most complete and best all rounder.

i sometimes wonder if other people watch or whether they have a memory that goes back only one race.

i have already explained why alonso wasn't even the best driver in the 2012 malaysian grand prix and that's reflexively regarded as an incredible win.

[naffnaff]

Surely the Ferrari didn't necessary have good race pace in the rain in Malaysia. Alonso in a Ferrari had good race pace in the rain in Malaysia.
I fully agree with what Zico said about Hamilton and Alonso.

[dj_bytedisaster]

i sometimes wonder if other people watch or whether they have a memory that goes back only one race.

i have already explained why alonso wasn't even the best driver in the 2012 malaysian grand prix and that's reflexively regarded as an incredible win.

So how did he win? Damn I don't evem like Alonso. but I'm defending him anyway. Maybe it's because I dislike window-licking idiots even more than eyebrows...

Fact is, he won a race that nobody thought he would and that was because he was friggin' brilliant that day.

[faster69]

Surely the Ferrari didn't necessary have good race pace in the rain in Malaysia. Alonso in a Ferrari had good race pace in the rain in Malaysia.
I fully agree with what Zico said about Hamilton and Alonso.

no, it did have good race pace. do you agree that perez drove the better race since he qualified behind alonso yet was easily a second or so a lap quicker than him?

[faster69]

So how did he win? Damn I don't evem like Alonso. but I'm defending him anyway. Maybe it's because I dislike window-licking idiots even more than eyebrows...

Fact is, he won a race that nobody thought he would and that was because he was friggin' brilliant that day.

yeah, no-one thought he'd have a chance because they expected a dry race. the rain changed everything. the ferrari had strong pace all year in the rain. alonso got lucky twice in that race with hamilton being held up in the pits and perez making a silly error when he had nearly caught alonso.

[Ranger]

no, it did have good race pace. do you agree that perez drove the better race since he qualified behind alonso yet was easily a second or so a lap quicker than him?

Should we now dismiss Ayrton Senna's drive at Monaco 1984?

After all, Stefan Bellof qualified further behind and was catching him.

[tfp]

Take a hammer and just kill yourself. Thank yooooo.

Honestly mate, I think you're taking this a little too seriously! :confused:

[dj_bytedisaster]

Honestly mate, I think you're taking this a little too seriously! :confused:

Maybe, but I just detest senseless hate-mongering. That dude comes in with a single digit number of posts and unloads on Fernando after the best race the did all season. I just can't stand senseless haters. It's just wrong.

[tfp]

Maybe, but I just detest senseless hate-mongering. That dude comes in with a single digit number of posts and unloads on Fernando after the best race the did all season. I just can't stand senseless haters.

Definetly his best drive this season, as flawless as Kimi in oz perhaps. But still....

[faster69]

Should we now dismiss Ayrton Senna's drive at Monaco 1984?

After all, Stefan Bellof qualified further behind and was catching him.

alonso was a 180 race veteran, while perez was in his second season.

it was a good drive by alonso. great drive by perez. alonso wasn't even the driver of the day. imagine if alonso pulled off something like button at montreal in 2011.

[The Black Knight]

no, it did have good race pace. do you agree that perez drove the better race since he qualified behind alonso yet was easily a second or so a lap quicker than him?

No he didn't drive a better race because Perez bottled it and went off. That's why Alonso won it. Alonso kept his head and won it in a car that wasn't even on par with the Sauber at that stage of the season. And you're incorrect about Hamilton and despite the McLaren pitstop bundle he didn't have the pace to keep with Alonso or Perez that day. Overall he was very isolated that day running in third place for most of it.

[steveaki13]

imagine if alonso pulled off something like button at montreal in 2011.


Is that you Saint D? :D Only kidding.

[pino]

Maybe, but I just detest senseless hate-mongering. That dude comes in with a single digit number of posts and unloads on Fernando after the best race the did all season. I just can't stand senseless haters. It's just wrong.

Seriously, you need to cool down a bit now, as you have crossed the line several times today. The fact that you don't agree with other members doesn't give you the right to be so aggressive, impolite and rude. Think about it...

[faster69]

No he didn't drive a better race because Perez bottled it and went off. That's why Alonso won it. Alonso kept his head and won it in a car that wasn't even on par with the Sauber at that stage of the season. And you're incorrect about Hamilton and despite the McLaren pitstop bundle he didn't have the pace to keep with Alonso or Perez that day. Overall he was very isolated that day running in third place for most of it.

yeah perez made a mistake, but that takes away from perez not alonso. sorry, but it takes more to impress me and to consider a race to be an "increible drive" than simply keeping it on the track in practically dry conditions. the ferrari was a good car in the rain all year, so the point about the sauber was moot in regards to malaysia and the ferrari was most definitely a better car than the sauber by spain.

[dj_bytedisaster]

yeah perez made a mistake, but that takes away from perez not alonso. sorry, but it takes more to impress me and to consider a race to be an "increible drive" than simply keeping it on the track in practically dry conditions. the ferrari was a good car in the rain all year, so the point about the sauber was moot in regards to malaysia and the ferrari was most definitely a better car than the sauber by spain.

To impress you one had to be window-licking mad, because your drivle doesn't make the least sense. you don't even have 20 posts and most of those few have been utter claptrap. Don't go away mad, just go away...

[pino]

dj, I have asked to cool down...

:rolleyes:

[dj_bytedisaster]

dj, I have asked to cool down...

:rolleyes:

If posting hatred against a driver is acceptable, but defending isnt - which one should I hate, oh chosen one?

[pino]

If posting hatred against a driver is acceptable, but defending isnt - which one should I hate, oh chosen one?

Seriously, you need to cool down a bit now, as you have crossed the line several times today. The fact that you don't agree with other members doesn't give you the right to be so aggressive, impolite and rude. Think about it...

[dj_bytedisaster]

Seriously, you need to cool down a bit now, as you have crossed the line several times today. The fact that you don't agree with other members doesn't give you the right to be so aggressive, impolite and rude. Think about it...

As you wish, dear leader. May the spirit of Marx, Engels and Lenin be with you.

[kfzmeister]

what were alonso's stand out drives in 2012?

Valencia. Most impressive race of the year. But why remind you? Like mentioned before, your goggles are impenetrable

Btw, when you retire Schumacher, what else is left to say?

[kfzmeister]

Rotflmao

Roflmao tse tung :D
http://www.biography.com/people/mao-tse-tung-9398142

[faster69]

Valencia. Most impressive race of the year. But why remind you? Like mentioned before, your goggles are impenetrable

Btw, when you retire Schumacher, what else is left to say?

but even that race he benefited greatly from vettel's breaking down while in the lead and a well timed safety car. that ferrari had good race pace. i thought it was nothing more than a race where everything just fell into place again and he didn't do anything remarkable in a car with decent race pace.

it's kind of like saying vettel's last to 3rd in abu dhabi was an incredible drive (it was a good solid drive). all he did was get the most out of a fast car and had safety cars fall his way. yeah good drive, but that's what's expected from a top driver.

[garyshell]

As you wish, dear leader. May the spirit of Marx, Engels and Lenin be with you.

And as another moderator I am going to step in and TELL you, not ask you, to stop this crap. If you don't agree with a post, fine attack the content of the post, but do not, I repeat DO NOT, attack the person who wrote the post. Do it one more time and an infraction will be imposed. Get it? Telling people to kill themselves is NOT acceptable behavior here. Don't like that? Go somewhere else where it is. And attacking another moderator by comparing them to the likes of Marx or Lenin, is equally unacceptable behavior.
Gary

[Mia 01]

Alonsos win today was good but nothing moore than a fine day in office. As Kimi said in Oz: It was an easy win.

The start system on the Ferraris is best in the field!

I´m glad for Kimi who managed second with a damaged car. And, Lotus was only the third best car out there today.

[dj_bytedisaster]

And attacking another moderator by comparing them to the likes of Marx or Lenin, is equally unacceptable behavior.
Gary


Shows you don't know much. Marx and Engels were harmless philosophers. Lenin was a brutal dictator. But mentioning them together is quite a safe way to expose the ignorant and the stupid. I won't be too harsh on you as you cannot know. Unlike myself you don't know what it is like to grow up in a dictatorship run country. As a result I don't take to self proclaimed maximo leaders very kindly. Pino has attacked me, afterwards admitting that he didn't read all the posts. Even if he is a moderator it doesn't absolve him. Having a go at people without the full picture is unprofessional at best and I reserve the right to call bull**** if someone is talking out of his arse. And seriously did you even think my 'kill yourself' posts were meant as an order for suicide? The poster they were directed at showed complete disregard for common sense anyways, so why should he pay attention to my posts of all the responses?
If someone can signup here and troll the forums, all of his 17 posts being hateful diatribes, mabe you should question your own job before having a go at someone, who's been around (with interruptions) since 2001.

[Bagwan]

Shows you don't know much. Marx and Engels were harmless philosophers. Lenin was a brutal dictator. But mentioning them together is quite a safe way to expose the ignorant and the stupid. I won't be too harsh on you as you cannot know. Unlike myself you don't know what it is like to grow up in a dictatorship run country. As a result I don't take to self proclaimed maximo leaders very kindly. Pino has attacked me, afterwards admitting that he didn't read all the posts. Even if he is a moderator it doesn't absolve him. Having a go at people without the full picture is unprofessional at best and I reserve the right to call bull**** if someone is talking out of his arse. And seriously did you even think my 'kill yourself' posts were meant as an order for suicide? The poster they were directed at showed complete disregard for common sense anyways, so why should he pay attention to my posts of all the responses?
If someone can signup here and troll the forums, all of his 17 posts being hateful diatribes, mabe you should question your own job before having a go at someone, who's been around (with interruptions) since 2001.

I'd like to also ask you to calm down , as you do create some interesting and logical debate , however , too often it is attached to some serious venom if the poster disagrees with you .

I am not a moderator , so take it or leave this advice .
I've been here for years and years , and seen many members banned , simple for forgetting their manners whilst sitting at the keyboard .
It's easy to do .

Chill , man , or we'll lose you , and I don't want that .

[airshifter]

Shows you don't know much. Marx and Engels were harmless philosophers. Lenin was a brutal dictator. But mentioning them together is quite a safe way to expose the ignorant and the stupid. I won't be too harsh on you as you cannot know. Unlike myself you don't know what it is like to grow up in a dictatorship run country. As a result I don't take to self proclaimed maximo leaders very kindly. Pino has attacked me, afterwards admitting that he didn't read all the posts. Even if he is a moderator it doesn't absolve him. Having a go at people without the full picture is unprofessional at best and I reserve the right to call bull**** if someone is talking out of his arse. And seriously did you even think my 'kill yourself' posts were meant as an order for suicide? The poster they were directed at showed complete disregard for common sense anyways, so why should he pay attention to my posts of all the responses?
If someone can signup here and troll the forums, all of his 17 posts being hateful diatribes, mabe you should question your own job before having a go at someone, who's been around (with interruptions) since 2001.

Regardless of what any other poster does, YOUR posts violate forum rules. I'd actually say you've been quite lucky to this point. I've seen people given time outs and bans for what I viewed as lesser rules violations. Even if you do encounter a troll, don't stoop to their level. Use the ignore list rather than get yourself booted out of the forum.

It could easily be said that your pro Vettel arguments in the last three weeks were trolling for a fight. But that still didn't give anyone that didn't agree the right to break forum rules of suggest you hurt yourself either. ;)

[donKey jote]

Having sat through the jingo from the "Big Bad Alonso" vs "our Lewis" era, I get where dj was coming from defending Vettel against the hordes (including myself :andrea :) and don't think it was trolling.
The arguments were and are valid. :up:
The tone however, I find extremely borderline :down:

[donKey jote]

.

[henners88]

I don't really understand all the hate for the tyres to be honest. Pirelli are delivering to the brief much like Bridgestone or Michelin would in the same position IMO. They don't last long on the softs but this is what they expected according to the teams. Thankfully the Pirelli's on my car last a lot longer, but if they were advertised as only lasting 50 miles, you wouldn't buy them lol. As it happens they are very good. If anything needs to be criticised its DRS.

[The Black Knight]

I don't really understand all the hate for the tyres to be honest. Pirelli are delivering to the brief much like Bridgestone or Michelin would in the same position IMO. They don't last long on the softs but this is what they expected according to the teams. Thankfully the Pirelli's on my car last a lot longer, but if they were advertised as only lasting 50 miles, you wouldn't buy them lol. As it happens they are very good. If anything needs to be criticised its DRS.


My issues with these tyres is that they dictate the show too much. The races are more about tyre management now than they are about actual racing. And when there is an "overtaking maneuvre" the other driver is most likely to be a sitting duck due to lack of grip. Two or three laps can make a massive difference. It leaves a sour taste in my mouth and it all seems a little too forced.


I don't like DRS either. It also leaves drivers, aka, Lews yesterday against Fernando to be a sitting duck. Mind you, I don't think Lewis could have kept Fred behind him anyway but it's just another example of the "show" that is now F1.


I'd rather see two guys at it flat out, balls to the wall, for 50 laps, kinda like we saw in Austin last year with Vettel and Hamilton, than to see the jokeshop that is going on now. That race isn Austin was brilliant and for me was the most enjoyable race in F1 for quite a while seeing two drivers push each other like that. You won't really get that with the tyres provided at this weekends Chinese GP.

[henners88]

My issues with these tyres is that they dictate the show too much. The races are more about tyre management now than they are about actual racing. And when there is an "overtaking maneuvre" the other driver is most likely to be a sitting duck due to lack of grip. Two or three laps can make a massive difference. It leaves a sour taste in my mouth and it all seems a little too forced.

I don't like DRS either. It also leaves drivers, aka, Lews yesterday against Fernando to be a sitting duck. Mind you, I don't think Lewis could have kept Fred behind him anyway but it's just another example of the "show" that is now F1.

I'd rather see two guys at it flat out, balls to the wall, for 50 laps, kinda like we saw in Austin last year with Vettel and Hamilton, than to see the jokeshop that is going on now. That race isn Austin was brilliant and for me was the most enjoyable race in F1 for quite a while seeing two drivers push each other like that. You won't really get that with the tyres provided at this weekends Chinese GP.
I agree with you totally, but its not Pirelli's fault that this is the type of racing that has been ordered. If we suddenly dropped Pirelli and Bridgestone came back with the same brief, we'd have fans complaining that Bridgestone tyres are crap. Pirelli are an accomplished tyre manufacturer delivering to a brief. Hopefully in futures seasons this will change but that is down to the governing body.

[webberf1]

Once again in this race Alonso showed why he is the class of the field. His ability to slice through the field and make the most of micro-opportunities on track is unmatched. Meanwhile his teammate in the same car and same strategy finishes 40 seconds down. Dominant.

[faster69]

Once again in this race Alonso showed why he is the class of the field. His ability to slice through the field and make the most of micro-opportunities on track is unmatched. Meanwhile his teammate in the same car and same strategy finishes 40 seconds down. Dominant.

he started third on the grid and had the fastest. how much slicing was there to do exactly? kimi made a terrible start and hamilton was easy pickings for both ferraris.

massa didn't have quite the same strategy. he had to do an extra lap on trashed tyres. he was right on alonso's tail, but because of the extra lap came back out in 12th. hamilton and kimi were now in front of him. vettel and button were on different strategies. alonso passed button, but button was on 20 lap old tyres at the time. he passed vettel but vettel wasn't fighting for a win and didn't want to lose time defending against the inevitable.

[Tazio]

Once again in this race Alonso showed why he is the class of the field. His ability to slice through the field and make the most of micro-opportunities on track is unmatched. Meanwhile his teammate in the same car and same strategy finishes 40 seconds down. Dominant.Pretty much my observation as well. :up:

[Tazio]

Race radio communications (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBKvRWD7Z08)

[zako85]

Once again in this race Alonso showed why he is the class of the field. His ability to slice through the field and make the most of micro-opportunities on track is unmatched.

Agreed, except when he loses his wing on the first lap ;p

[henners88]

Agreed, except when he loses his wing on the first lap ;p
Yeah but the majority of people watching in Malaysia were surprised by that rare mistake from Fernando.

[wedge]

I agree with you totally, but its not Pirelli's fault that this is the type of racing that has been ordered. If we suddenly dropped Pirelli and Bridgestone came back with the same brief, we'd have fans complaining that Bridgestone tyres are crap. Pirelli are an accomplished tyre manufacturer delivering to a brief. Hopefully in futures seasons this will change but that is down to the governing body.

Not really. To what extent should the tyres be crap? Pirelli have gone too far IMHO. Early 2009 Bridgestone brought aggressive compounds but because drivers moaned they went back conservative selection.

[henners88]

Not really. To what extent should the tyres be crap? Pirelli have gone too far IMHO. Early 2009 Bridgestone brought aggressive compounds but because drivers moaned they went back conservative selection.
I couldn't answer that question. If I had my way the tyres would be a lot more durable and allow hard racing rather than tyre management.

[kfzmeister]

Agreed, except when he loses his wing on the first lap ;p

Poor attempt at discrediting him. :down:

[wedge]

I couldn't answer that question. If I had my way the tyres would be a lot more durable and allow hard racing rather than tyre management.

That should be the definition of tyre management. The ability and knowing when to push but still suffer degradation.

[CaptainRaiden]

In other news, Titmarsh wants his brain fart protege, Perez, to be more like Hamilton:

Whitmarsh: Pérez needs to toughen up - GPUpdate.net (http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/293241/whitmarsh-perez-needs-to-toughen-up/)

[SGWilko]

My issues with these tyres is that they dictate the show too much.

So did/does;

coanda exhausts
Blown diffusers
Double Diffusres
F-Ducts
FRIC
Active Ride
ABS
Traction Control
Launch Control
Tuned Mass Damper
Trick Engine Maps......

[SGWilko]

I couldn't answer that question. If I had my way the tyres would be a lot more durable and allow hard racing rather than tyre management.

Could we not go back to the days of a set of tyres lasting a good part of the season, and worked in most weathers? Maybe then mandate a maximum of 8 sets of tyres for the season......