2013 Australian Grand Prix Official Thread

[steveaki13]

Right then you lot. I am excited for the start of the new season.

So I reckon we are all ready to launch the first Race Thread of the season.

With less than a week until Friday Practice begins, I present the start of our Race discussion.


Australian GP 2013: Albert Park, Melbourne.

15th-17th March.

58 Laps

Previous Winners at Albert Park:

1996: Damon Hill - Williams
1997: David Coulthard - Mclaren
1998: Mika Hakkinen - Mclaren
1999: Eddie Irvine - Ferrari
2000: Michael Schumacher - Ferrari
2001: Michael Schumacher - Ferrari
2002: Michael Schumacher - Ferrari
2003: David Coulthard - Mclaren
2004: Michael Schumacher - Ferrari
2005: Giancarlo Fisichella - Renault
2006: Fernando Alonso - Mclaren
2007: Kimi Raikkonen - Ferrari
2008: Lewis Hamilton - Mclaren
2009: Jenson Button - Brawn
2010: Jenson Button - Mclaren
2011: Sebastian Vettel - Red Bull
2012: Jenson Button - Mclaren

Michael Schumacher 4 Wins
Jenson Button 3 Wins
David Coulthard 2 Wins
Damon Hill 1 Win
Mika Hakkinen 1 Win
Eddie Irvine 1 Win
Giancarlo Fisichella 1 Win
Fernando Alonso 1 Win
Kimi Raikkonen 1 Win
Lewis Hamilton 1 Win
Sebastian Vettel 1 Win

Ferrari 6 Wins
Mclaren 6 Wins
Renault 2 Wins
Brawn 1 Win
Red Bull 1 Win
Williams 1 Win


* So looking at these stats Jenson Button owns this place as no one else on the Grid has won it twice.

While its interesting that Ferrari & Mclaren each have 6 wins.

Also out of the 17 races at Albert Park, 11 of the winners went on to win the title, with 6 not doing so.

Driver Line Ups:

Red Bull: Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber
Ferrari: Fernando Alonso and Felipe Massa
Mclaren: Jenson Button and Sergio Perez
Lotus: Kimi Raikkonen and Romain Grosjean
Mercedes: Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg
Sauber: Nico Hulkenberg and Esteban Gutierrez
Force India: Paul di Resta and Adrian Sutil
Williams: Pastor Maldonado and Valtterri Bottas
Toro Rosso: Daniel Ricciardo and Jean Eric Vergne
Caterham: Charles Pic and Eric Van der Garde
Marussia: Max Chilton and Jules Bianchi.

* 5 Rookies for 2013.


So hope you enjoyed this little intro.

Now its time to get discussing the issues for the start of F1 2013. :)

[steveaki13]

I have a slight fancy that Jenson might keep his currant domination of Albert Park going.

I think Mclaren might have a decent car to start the season with.

I hope to see the Caterham & Marussia make a good start to 2013 and show some progress.


What do the rest of you think?

[teamleader]

I think Lotus wil do good on this type of track, semi street circuit.
/bet all Kimi :D

[Coulthard Fan]

WOOOOOO this track has been dominated by the Brits!
II think it will be a German who wins this year I'm going for Vettel!
What's the chances of rain this year the Aussie weather is always unpredictable

[Duncan]

I'm rooting for Lewis but think it will more likely be Fernando.

Only a few more days to wait and we'll get an indication of how fast the 2013 cars really are... :bounce:

[steveaki13]

Initial long term weather on the BBC, suggests a cloudy weekend with a few spots of rain.

So not a storm thus far, so hopefully we get a race so we can judge the new cars.

[rjbetty]

I have a slight fancy that Jenson might keep his currant domination of Albert Park going.

I think Mclaren might have a decent car to start the season with.

I hope to see the Caterham & Marussia make a good start to 2013 and show some progress.


What do the rest of you think?

You know what, I don't really have much idea! I'm not so sure Red Bull are going to run away with it, but they might just be playing a very clever game, lulling everyone into a false sense of security.

Sadly, I don't have much hope for Marussia or Caterham to score points. If even one of Kovalainen, Petrov or Glock had been retained there might have been a chance. If it's true that even 1 or both Toro Rosso drivers can average 1sec or less off the pace this year (Ric and Ver were +1.4 and +1.8sec average in 2012), then the bottom teams have a massive gap to make up - probably too big sadly...

In 2012, Caterham and Marussia averaged this in qualifying

Kovalainen +2.9sec
Petrov +3.2sec
Glock +4.1sec
Pic +4.5sec

I expect a 2nd season Pic would not get above 3.2 or 3.3sec if the 2013 Pic drove the 2012 Caterham. Van der Garde will probably be about 6 tenths or so off Pic this year.

As for Marussia, I guess Bianchi will perform at a similar level to Pic last year. Chilton may be slightly slower but I hear he's a pretty fast qualifier.

So Bianchi in 2012 would average about 4.5sec off as Pic did. This means Marussia need to make up AT LEAST 2sec to be able to have a chance of points. I hear KERS is worth 0.4sec, and the fully windtunnel developed car (with McLaren resources and Pat Symonds full time) should be worth a chunk. I'm not sure it will be enough this year though, especially with the low funds (no development).

I think all of them are going to have to average no slower than 2.5sec over the whole season to even have a chance of scoring points on pace (which looks unlikely)...


Great intro by the way.

[Knock-on]

I'm putting a fiver on Lewis each way

[steveaki13]

Great intro by the way.

Thanks

It was a bit early but I was ready

[edv]

We'll soon find out who's been sandbagging during the tests...Kimi? Pastor? Sebastian?

[TheFamousEccles]

My totally (ahem) biased view is Webber and Ricciardo running away in a fit of home ground advantage fervour to take the top two rostrum steps - the order however is anyone's guess... ;)

In the cold, hard light of day though, I agree that it is hard to know just how much in the way of sandbags the RBRs have been "carrying" in the pre-season, and I would imagine in light of previous form Jenson and the Mc might have a red-hot chance too. It will be enjoyable watching the Pout circulate toward the back of the midfield - schadenfreude is vastly under-rated IMO :vader:

[kfzmeister]

We'll soon find out who's been sandbagging during the tests...Kimi? Pastor? Sebastian?

None of 'em. All Renault powered cars bet on the idea that they would be able to use new engine mapping for 2013 and actually looked good at the beginning of testing, but have all had to revert to a different exhaust and to same mapping as 2012. As a result they all did not look good in sector 3 in Barca. Even with fuel levels corrected, Vettel would have been .3 off Fernando's fastest time in that same sector. They are all (Renault engined cars) having problems with traction coming out of slow corners.

[keysersoze]

I expect a 2nd season Pic would not get above 3.2 or 3.3sec if the 2013 Pic drove the 2012 Caterham. Van der Garde will probably be about 6 tenths or so off Pic this year.

I don't know about this one rj. Although I think that Pic got the better of Giedo when the two were GP2 teammates, it wasn't a landslide. Generally, they were very close. I'd be surprised if Pic was as dominant as you suggest. Giedo also has the benefit of having been with the team longer than Charles, and drove the Caterham in FP1 last year a half-dozen times. My guess is that Charles wins the qualifying battle, 11-8.

[gloomyDAY]

The freights have arrived! Albert Park - Imgur (http://imgur.com/a/5Iey9)

Australia, can you please get your drunk women in check? Thanks (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-11/p-plater-found-drink-driving-on-grand-prix-track/4564420).

[Tazio]

Initial long term weather on the BBC, suggests a cloudy weekend with a few spots of rain.

So not a storm thus far, so hopefully we get a race so we can judge the new cars.

Yes long range Melbourne Forecast (http://www.bom.gov.au/vic/forecasts/melbourne.shtml) is for some rain on the weekend,

which could add an extra dimension of interest to this race IMHO. Their probably won't be enough, but I guess there is a chance that the race could be run exclusively on inters, and supersofts’ (although not likely) :crazy: :p :

[driveace]

Sure that Vettel has been sandbagging !I am hoping that Hamilton and Alonso can have good early results and points ,as The Bulls will not take long to turn it around if they are off the pace in the early part of the season !

[teamleader]

Will Sky broadcast the first grandprix free to watch??

[DexDexter]

I predict Red Bull domination, hopefully I'm wrong :) .

[Garry Walker]

I'm putting a fiver on Lewis each way

You just love to give away money, don't you?

Kidding aside, I would love it if you actually earned a bit over that bet, but I don't think Mercedes can compete with Red Bull yet. Not over a race distance anyway.

[Tazio]

Tire preview for Australia


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1tWUsECQ_M

I will be pleasantly suprised if the supersofts' really are worth 16-20 laps this weekend.

[steveaki13]

Albert Park often throws up an unexpected result, maybe a bit of rain will give Lewis a chance.

I think, Jenson, Fernando and Seb will be the key runners.

[Rollo]

My totally (ahem) biased view is Webber and Ricciardo running away in a fit of home ground advantage fervour to take the top two rostrum steps - the order however is anyone's guess... ;)

The last time an Australian won the Australian Grand Prix was Alan Jones in 1980 and that wasn't even an event on the F1 calendar. The best that Webber has done is 4th; so really if there is any "home ground advantage" it counts for little, but then again you are totally (ahem) biased :D


In the cold, hard light of day though, I agree that it is hard to know just how much in the way of sandbags the RBRs have been "carrying" in the pre-season,

I think that it'll be Vettel 1 and Webber 2; business as usual. I don't think that Jerez told us particularly all that much except that the Red Bulls don't chew up tyres.

[TheFamousEccles]

Dare to dream, Rollo... :s pinhead:

And I think you may be right about the RBRs and their tyres.

[Ranger]

After just having 9 consecutive days above 32°C, current forecasts are that it's likely to rain on the weekend. However Melbourne's weather is very volatile so you can expect anything!

[N4D13]

According to Formula1.com, there might be rain on Saturday, but Friday and Sunday are expected to be dry. That could be hell, right? Having the first qualifying session of the year in the rain having had no practice in it can't be easy, and if it rains heavily, the rubber could have been washed away completely by Sunday morning.

[jens]

So another potentially fascinating season is about to begin. Five top teams, each fielding a World Champion. So they have all proven drivers to get the job done. Even more so, based on testing all those teams seem to have a very competitive car! What is going to happen?

Reminds me a bit of pre-2004, when I think the expectations were also quite significant with five teams looking to fight at the front. We had seen top three teams being very close the previous year plus another one (Renault in 2003, Lotus in 2012) being a strong pretender. Also a fifth team showed very well in winter testing (BAR pre-04, Mercedes pre-13), promising to mix it with the leaders as well.

As it turned out, 2004 didn't quite turn out that fascinating as Ferrari-Bridgestone found an edge in the final tests, while McLaren, who had been a regular frontrunner, made together with 2009 their most serious mess of a car of the last of almost 20 years. But between those two other teams – BAR, Renault and Williams – were pretty close as expected, especially in the beginning of the season.

Of course now we are eagerly waiting, how close is this season going to be or can someone edge ahead this time as well. From that point of view all eyes are on Red Bull, who all too often has managed to pull something out of the bag in the most crucial moments.

But as we remember, both in 2010 and 2012 we had something like 6-7 drivers within almost one race win after 1/3 of the season. And only then in-season development and season-long consistency started to swing the season in favour of the main players. So we could see something like that again.

Who is going to win at Melbourne? Well, depends on car characteristics, current form, luck, circumstances, weather. For instance based on tests it looks like McLaren was going better at Jerez than at Barcelona, which may indicate that they would be more competitive at Albert Park than at Sepang based on circuit similarities. And then we have temperatures. In winter testing we didn't get any idea of this, but last year Lotus went really well in hot conditions. But we will see. :)

[EuroTroll]

Moderators don't play pickems, right? If you did though, jens, who would you pick? Just curious. ;)

[jens]

Moderators don't play pickems, right? If you did though, jens, who would you pick? Just curious. ;)

Well, if it is very difficult to pick someone, then the safest option is simply to pick the "proven ones", who are less likely to underperform. :p : So the likes of Vettel and Alonso would make my Top3. And regardless of how Australian Grand Prix ends, I'd expect those two to be the main title contenders anyway over a full season of racing and development. But I am aware that 2009 brought a complete fail for "safe pickings." :p :

[Tazio]

As usual great input Jens :up:
but last year Lotus went really well in hot conditions. But we will see. :) Right, there is no evidence as far as I can tell that the E21 will have this same characteristic as the the E20, although I think it will fight at or near the front.

[airshifter]

Well, if it is very difficult to pick someone, then the safest option is simply to pick the "proven ones", who are less likely to underperform. :p : So the likes of Vettel and Alonso would make my Top3. And regardless of how Australian Grand Prix ends, I'd expect those two to be the main title contenders anyway over a full season of racing and development. But I am aware that 2009 brought a complete fail for "safe pickings." :p :

No wonder you don't play pickems. Your choices are way off! :laugh:

In all seriousness now, great post showing the anticipation many of us have towards the start of the season. If we get changing conditions some wildcards might come into the picture, but my gut instinct is similar to yours.... the cream will rise to the top.

[steveaki13]

Great post Jens

Quali order predicton

1. Vettel
2. Alonso
3. Raikkonen
4. Button
5. Hamilton
6. Webber
7. Perez
8. Hulkenberg
9. Rosberg
10. Grosjean
11. Massa
12. Maldonado
13. di Resta
14. Bottas
15. Gutierrez
16. Sutil
17. Ricciardo
18. Vergne
19. Pic
20. Bianchi
21. Van der Garde
22. Chilton

[rjbetty]

Great post Jens

Quali order predicton

1. Vettel
2. Alonso
3. Raikkonen
4. Button
5. Hamilton
6. Webber
7. Perez
8. Hulkenberg
9. Rosberg
10. Grosjean
11. Massa
12. Maldonado
13. di Resta
14. Bottas
15. Gutierrez
16. Sutil
17. Ricciardo
18. Vergne
19. Pic
20. Bianchi
21. Van der Garde
22. Chilton

That's very brave. I really don't know what to do but I will have a go. But I have been doing shockingly in the WRC pickems this year, finishing right towards the bottom in ALL THREE rallies so far.

But I hope to do better in F1 - it should help me a lot that Evgeny Novikov isn't in F1 - I will try to choose more reliable drivers. :p

The more I think about, the more I'm going to go with Red Bull NOT having things their way.

GRID
1.Button
2.Hamilton
3.Rosberg
4.Alonso
5.Vettel
6.Webber
7.Perez
8.Massa
9.Maldonado
10.Grosjean
11.Raikkonen
12.Hulkenberg
13.Ricciardo
14.di Resta
15.Vergne
16.Bottas
17.Sutil
18.Gutierrez
19.Pic
20.Bianchi
21.Chilton
22.van der Garde

[kfzmeister]

http://i49.tinypic.com/x6hmxc.jpg

Hungry Heidi?

[TheFamousEccles]

aaaarrrggghh - my eyes!!!!!!!!!!

[jens]

Steveaki and rjbetty. I have a suspicion you have put Grosjean too low. :p : For all the flaws he has, he can really wring the speed out of the car over a single lap and had a stunning third place on the grid last year. I remember, how impressed I was, when he came straight into F1 and competed against top drivers from the get-go.

Of course Maldonado can surprise us as well. Last year he qualified into top3 mostly on street circuits and Albert Park is one of those. We don't know, how good Williams is this year. But if they can be that fast again, who knows. :)

I also wouldn't be surprised to see Mercedes on the front row, but I am not convinced of what to expect from them in the race. Last year they were qualifying really well in the early phase of the season too.

McLaren is definitely a tricky one. Last year they locked out the front-row. Allegedly this year their car is not that fast, but we can't say for sure. And their drivers can be a bit erratic over a single lap. So it can go either way really.

[Valve Bounce]

Hi Everyone! Just thought I'd take a peek at F1 again this year, since I have been hearing an F1 engine spasmodically today - must be the two seater. I have been totally out of touch from F1 for months and months. Sorry, but other factors in my life makes F1 seem so remote to my brain. I don't even know which team Hamilton is driving for, nor do I know what happened to Schumacher.
Just did the pickems for fun. Yeah! I am living at Docklands for short term, but can still hear the racing cars. For those who want to know where, we are living right opposite Entrance 1 of Etihad Stadium.

[Tazio]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMRH5Sf1MEs

[rjbetty]

Steveaki and rjbetty. I have a suspicion you have put Grosjean too low. :p : For all the flaws he has, he can really wring the speed out of the car over a single lap and had a stunning third place on the grid last year. I remember, how impressed I was, when he came straight into F1 and competed against top drivers from the get-go.

Of course Maldonado can surprise us as well. Last year he qualified into top3 mostly on street circuits and Albert Park is one of those. We don't know, how good Williams is this year. But if they can be that fast again, who knows. :)


Aha, but I'm risking Grosjean not setting a Q3 time. :D

I think possibly out of all the teams, I'm most curious about Williams. Just where are they gonna be in the pecking order...? They could well even make the top 5 a top 6.

I do wonder if Sauber have been sandbagging too and secretly have a rocketship, as dj_bytedisaster suggested.

I expect Force India to as usual, have flattered to deceive with quick testing times, and not be that much quicker this year.

[gloomyDAY]

http://www.youtube./watch?v=lMRH5Sf1MEsThat press conference was like watching a group of dudes get their teeth pulled.

This was probably the most annoying question (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMRH5Sf1MEs&list=UUk9GFvOcF01TV7FCfFHo2-w&index=1#t=9m14s) directed at Webber. "Marko is a total douche bag and has derided your performance in public. How has that eroded your motivation?"

[Tazio]

Yes there were, how do you say, a few awkward moments, and why was Kimi so chatty with Vet'? :angryfire ;)

[donKey jote]

aaaarrrggghh - my eyes!!!!!!!!!!

that's nothing... just wait for garry's reaction ! :p

[steveaki13]

So just a few hours until we see some F1 2013 action.

Who will be watching live? I have to work and will be dead to te world if I stay up.

[pino]

I will watch live pole and race, not practices...

[Tazio]

I'll be watching live all the way through to the bitter end! :champion:

[steveaki13]

I'll be watching live all the way through to the bitter end! :champion:

Wouldn't expect anything else from the Doc.

[pino]

Btw...go Ferrari, go Alonso ! :p :

[Tazio]

...and Felipe! :angel:

[Tazio]

Btw...go Ferrari, go Alonso ! :p :

http://wtf1.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Korea3.jpg



:s ailor: "Rain is always good news"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb-BadZA7Gg

[truefan72]

and just in time for the first race, the new live app is here. They came to their senses and offered a free version ( which I got) and I can't see much difference between the free and the $40 version.
Its actually very good with the track maps and various timing screens.

[truefan72]

I'll be watching live all the way through to the bitter end! :champion:

me too

[gloomyDAY]

Btw...go Ferrari, go Alonso ! :p :This is what Vettel and I think of Alonso...

http://static.tumblr.com/frtjrpg/uYmmb6l4o/lol-1.gif

:D

[Tazio]

This is what Vettel and I think of Alonso...

http://static.tumblr.com/frtjrpg/uYmmb6l4o/lol-1.gif

:D The picture is too small I can't make it out, is he doing something with his finger? :confused:
Probably a good thing my support of drivers isn't predicated upon what other forum members profess. ;)

[airshifter]

and just in time for the first race, the new live app is here. They came to their senses and offered a free version ( which I got) and I can't see much difference between the free and the $40 version.
Its actually very good with the track maps and various timing screens.

Which app are you speaking of?

[Tazio]

Live timing is not working for me. Anyone else?

[truefan72]

Live timing is not working for me. Anyone else?

yup, not working either

and apparently the official F1 app free version is only a demo and you have to purchase the $40 paid one to see any live timing. It would be nice if they said demo! and not free version!
I'm pissed :(

[gloomyDAY]

Live timing is not working for me. Anyone else?Where are you watching it, Taz?

[Tazio]

The only place I know of that they show it.

Formula 1® - The Official F1® Website (http://www.formula1.com/live_timing/live_timing.html)

[dj_bytedisaster]

yup, not working either

and apparently the official F1 app free version is only a demo and you have to purchase the $40 paid one to see any live timing. It would be nice if they said demo! and not free version!
I'm pissed :(

Not wanting to sound rude, but you're a wee bit naive, too ;) Since when does F1 give away ANYTHING for free...

[kfzmeister]

Hamilton on pole with the Mercedes' Front and Rear Interactive Control Suspension :eek:

[Koz]

Caterham looks absolutely hideous.

What were they thinking...

[gloomyDAY]

FP1 is done! Here is my take on it:

1) Vettel at the number 1 spot. :)

2) Ferrari are strong and Massa looks back to his 2008 form.

3) Hamilton thrashing that Mercedes for all its worth, and Rosberg still milling around.

4) Kimi looks quite comfortable in his Lotus.

5) Where the hell did McLaren go?

6) Webber is still struggling with the new RBR machine.

7) Di Resta eats the kitty litter!

[Tazio]

Kind of hard to draw any conclusions Glue, with a lot of new parts to test. The Ferrari's were using different engine covers, and Igornado reverted to the semi coander exhaust for the second 1/2 of the session :bulb:

[Robinho]

its not much to go on, but it does seem to confirm a lot of what we thought from testing - Ferrari, Red Bull and Lotus are all right there, Merc are quicker than expected and McLaren are probably playing catch up, but with the largest potential in the car. Whether they start to show that just over the cours eof the weekend or if it takes a few races remains to be seen

[TheFamousEccles]

well, FP2 is over and aside from a weird spin for MW, its normal transmission resumed for RBR :up:

[Tazio]

RB are shockingly fast :eek:

[Valve Bounce]

Possibility of showers tomorrow, and temperature during quals can be as low s 17.

[gloomyDAY]

Mercedes' fell apart at the end of FP2. Hamilton went into the kitty litter and looked dejected. Rosberg had a transmission problem and had to pull over to the side of the track. I suspect that Hamilton had the same transmission issue as Rosberg because he couldn't do a burnout in the pit-lane, Hamilton also had trouble getting the car into gear, and he radioed back to the engineers that "something was wrong with the car." We'll see what the verdict is. I'm going to bed!

[CaptainRaiden]

McLaren are probably playing catch up, but with the largest potential in the car.

What's the reason behind that assumption?

[Ranger]

What's the reason behind that assumption?

That's what McLaren think, I hope they are right for their sake!

Australian TV (with UK correspondents) said as much.

Formula 1® - The Official F1® Website (http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2013/3/14324.html)


“Yet we’ve made a lot of changes to the overall package and we’ve done so in the belief that you have to be competitive over 19 races, and you’ve got to be able to develop it. We’ve given ourselves a platform that is new to ensure we’ve got a development opportunity over the course of the season.”

[jens]

Wow, FPs are over and I am already pumped up for the season! Excitement is in the air, new season, new pecking order, new challenge for everyone again! Beginning of a season is always exciting, regardless of how boring or exciting the year itself will turn out to be!

Funny that I compared 2013 to 2004 a few days ago. Five top teams, but among them RBR may indeed look closest to the Ferrari of those days. And McLaren to themselves again. :p : At least based on the comments and impressions so far.

[Robinho]

The reason behind the assumption is that the other 4 have opted for an evolutionary approach to the 2013 car, and therefore have probably limited their development potential, whereas McLaren have chosen a new design philosophy, which if they have correct, will have more development opportunities, however that relies on them not starting with a lemon and also being able to tap into the potential. They need to start understanding the strengths of the car and building on them very quickly as at the moment it appears they have 4 teams to overhaul

Sent from the moon using a shoe

[CaptainRaiden]

My thoughts based on practice so far:

1. Newey may have delivered yet another winning car for the fourth year running. Both Red Bulls are fast right out of the block and this could be another 2011. :mad:

2. Both Ferraris and Lotuses seem to be right up there, which is only good news for us fans, as that means Red Bull might not have it all too easy running away with the championship.

3. It seems Hamilton left and took the performance with him as Mercedes suddenly seem to be contenders (albeit with some technnical gremlins) and Mclaren have been pushed back to the midfield. Jenslow was complaining about grip all last year and now he's been joined by Perez and Whitmarsh.

4. Sutil has surprised me with his pace, especially after his sabbatical, making Di Resta look ordinary again.

5. Williams' lack of pace is surprising, with their radical looking car design and all that talk about challenging the top teams, they can barely make it to the top 10.

The rest of the field have resumed their usual positions and rookies are having some teething problems as usual.

[acescribe]

My thoughts based on practice so far:

1. Newey may have delivered yet another winning car for the fourth year running. Both Red Bulls are fast right out of the block and this could be another 2011. :mad:

2. Both Ferraris and Lotuses seem to be right up there, which is only good news for us fans, as that means Red Bull might not have it all too easy running away with the championship.

3. It seems Hamilton left and took the performance with him as Mercedes suddenly seem to be contenders (albeit with some technnical gremlins) and Mclaren have been pushed back to the midfield. Jenslow was complaining about grip all last year and now he's been joined by Perez and Whitmarsh.

4. Sutil has surprised me with his pace, especially after his sabbatical, making Di Resta look ordinary again.

5. Williams' lack of pace is surprising, with their radical looking car design and all that talk about challenging the top teams, they can barely make it to the top 10.

The rest of the field have resumed their usual positions and rookies are having some teething problems as usual.

You some it all up very well there!

Lots are saying "it is too early, it is too early" but knowing what we know, it would be a huge shock to see RB fall backward. McLaren will improve, we know that too - but contenders for the titles... no..

[AndyL]

Lots are saying "it is too early, it is too early" but knowing what we know, it would be a huge shock to see RB fall backward. McLaren will improve, we know that too - but contenders for the titles... no..

We all know how good McLaren are at developing a car through the season, and their "revolution not evolution" design may have a lot of potential, but yes, right now it's looking like Red Bull will have cantered too far ahead by the time they tap it. If Red Bull spend the first half of the season scrapping for every point with Ferrari, Mercedes and Lotus, then McLaren would have a chance to come from behind, but based on Friday's performances it looks like Red Bull will have few challengers initially.

[DexDexter]

its not much to go on, but it does seem to confirm a lot of what we thought from testing - Ferrari, Red Bull and Lotus are all right there, Merc are quicker than expected and McLaren are probably playing catch up, but with the largest potential in the car. Whether they start to show that just over the cours eof the weekend or if it takes a few races remains to be seen

I doubt Mclaren has any larger potential in the car (than Red Bull, for example) . Sure they can say that, but in reality they've yet again showed up at the first race off the pace. It happens every other year.

[CaptainRaiden]

Perez is an unknown quantity still, and we all know it takes an absolutely brilliant/perfect car for Jenson to win a championship. And with Mclaren starting at the backfoot this far behind, it seems like much of 2013 will be spent in doldrums before they can "tap that" MP4-28's ......... potential.

[The Black Knight]

Perez is an unknown quantity still, and we all know it takes an absolutely brilliant/perfect car for Jenson to win a championship. And with Mclaren starting at the backfoot this far behind, it seems like much of 2013 will be spent in doldrums before they can "tap that" MP4-28's ......... potential.

I have a feeling, like so many other years, that they have made a balls of it. They had a great basis with which to move forward with the MP4-27. With this being the last year of the current rules, why risk so much? All they had to do was keep developing. Ok, they may eventually hit a development ceiling with this, but there's no guarantee with the new car they'll ever reach the peak at which the old car could be at now. It's a disaster and if they suffer for it this year then I really feel it will be time for Whitmarsh to go. Considering the resources available to them, no championship since 2008 is disgraceful. 2009 made a hash of it. 2010 improvement, still the 3rd - 4th best car on the grid. 2011, made a balls of it spent the whole year catching up. 2012, fastest car for much of the year, but pit stop blunders, mechanical issues all cost them the title. That team needs to be reworked. They are becoming the nearly men of F1 and, if they don't do it this year, then I honestly feel they'll have to take a different approach. I love McLaren and everything but starting at the position they are in right now is absolutely ridiculous. I bet Lewis is happy he left given the pace the Mercedes has shown thus far.

Qualifying will tell more but if both McLaren's aren't in the top ten, heads should roll.

[keysersoze]

Nothing conclusive, just some observations:

1. Everyone seems upbeat except McLaren and Williams, Pastor in particular.
2. Sutil up a half-second on Paul.
3. STR boys score: 1-1
4. Bianchi up a second on Chilton
5. Perez not far from Button boy
6. Bidness as usual for RBR
7. Massa is right with Fernando so far.

[wedge]

Qualifying will tell more but if both McLaren's aren't in the top ten, heads should roll.

Paddy Lowe is supposed to be on gardening leave. Probably shows how desperate McLaren are.

[Zico]

I doubt Mclaren has any larger potential in the car (than Red Bull, for example) . Sure they can say that, but in reality they've yet again showed up at the first race off the pace. It happens every other year.

Looking in from the outside, an evolution of last years car would have made much more sense, especially with the big changes (new engines and regs) coming in next year but maybe last years basic design really limited their options with regards to the development direction they wanted to go in, to the extent that they calculated the potential gains to be made as the season progresses, as a worthwhile gamble overall.

Should make for an interesting season if this is the case.

[The Black Knight]

Looking in from the outside, an evolution of last years car would have made much more sense, especially with the big changes (new engines and regs) coming in next year but maybe last years basic design really limited their options with regards to the development direction they wanted to go in, to the extent that they calculated the potential gains to be made as the season progresses, as a worthwhile gamble overall.

Should make for an interesting season if this is the case.

I interpreted it as "our current car doesn't have the development potential of Red Bull's so we did something drastic."

[edv]

We'll soon find out who's been sandbagging during the tests...Kimi? Pastor? Sebastian?

Looks like it was Kimi & Seb.

[Garry Walker]

Red Bull on another planet compared to others cars, but that has been the case since about the 7th race in 2009, so no surprise there.

Newey is an F1 titan.

[Duncan]

Big surprises for me so far are McLaren & Mercedes; one on the downside and one on the upside.

The Ferrari is looking pretty good, but I think that was more or less expected. The Red Bull is looking pretty good too, obviously, but remarkable just how close Lewis and Nico are to Seb... and also remarkable how disappointing the McLaren seems to be. I didn't see that coming.

[AndyL]

Looking in from the outside, an evolution of last years car would have made much more sense, especially with the big changes (new engines and regs) coming in next year but maybe last years basic design really limited their options with regards to the development direction they wanted to go in, to the extent that they calculated the potential gains to be made as the season progresses, as a worthwhile gamble overall.

My guess is they stuck with the low nose too long, and were finding it a limiting factor. So they needed a shift in concept to a car that would make use of the airflow under a higher nose, and in terms of understanding it they are now trailing behind teams who have been using that concept for longer.

[jens]

Regarding McLaren. I don't criticize them for the decision, obviously they knew, what they were risking with and had to make an uncomfortable compromise in their decision. Development potential is a very important aspect. Remember Renault in 2011. If you struggle to develop a car, there wouldn't be much use of it over a full season - even if you are fast in a couple of opening races, but drop to midfield for the rest of the year.

However, I am impressed that RBR never seems to hit a ceiling with their evolutionary designs. Shows that they have got the basics very right and the design philosophy has been worked out in harmony with the big picture. A contrast to McLaren, who seems to make a clean sheet design each season, but never manages to create a car with enough long-term potential and have to go to the beginning again.

[AndyL]

However, I am impressed that RBR never seems to hit a ceiling with their evolutionary designs. Shows that they have got the basics very right and the design philosophy has been worked out in harmony with the big picture.

That sums up the genius of Adrian Newey!

[donKey jote]

3. It seems Hamilton left and took the performance with him

at least 6 tenths, what? :p

[rjbetty]

That's my Pickem down the drain.

(I gambled on changing my winner from Vettel to Button with a couple of hours to go...)

[Firstgear]

A few years ago starting with a clean slate to develop extra potential was probably the right thing for Mclaren, not so sure about now. Back then, they could start with a slower (by their standards) car and stil be the third best car (maybe behind Ferrari & Renault or Ferrari & Williams) and still get a descent points haul finishing a bit off the podium. Now, starting a bit slower puts them behind four or five teams, and they may be scratching for just a point or two. By the time they realize their potential, they could be too far behind.

[Tazio]

Rain and strong wind will turn this race into a lottery.

[truefan72]

slightly off-topic, but I see that Mclaren have forbid their crew from wearing shorts this year. They claim they want to present a better corporate image to sponsors etc. Which of course is all nonsense imo. Its just another example of ron Dennis trying to be stuffy old gent, and does more to dampen team morale if anything. I mean why would you want your crew relaxed and eager to work, rather than hot, uncomfortable and getting more heat for an untucked shirt than anything else.

[keysersoze]

slightly off-topic, but I see that Mclaren have forbid their crew from wearing shorts this year. They claim they want to present a better corporate image to sponsors etc. Which of course is all nonsense imo. Its just another example of ron Dennis trying to be stuffy old gent, and does more to dampen team morale if anything. I mean why would you want your crew relaxed and eager to work, rather than hot, uncomfortable and getting more heat for an untucked shirt than anything else.

I hear the crew is being fitted for dinner jackets . . . :D

Meanwhile, down at Team James Hunt the order of the day is cargo shorts, tie-dyed t-shirts, flip flops, and weed. j/k

[jens]

Before the season starts... I thought I would recall my own most special memories from season openers.

2012 - RBR had dominated the previous season. So it was a surprise to see them suddenly down in 5th and 6th! Mercedes was fast, even if slow in the race. And Grosjean was 3rd! An unexpected qualifying session.

2009 - Friday Free Practice left an impression that the top three teams were Brawn, Toyota and Williams. People were left scratching their heads, because even Ferrari - who had been considered competitive in winter testing - wasn't at the front. And qualifying confirmed the stunner. Even Red Bull could beat all the works teams! Together with Brawn and Williams. A shocker. Then we had a messy race with tyres that hardly lasted (for the first time such experiment was used!). Brawn confirmed its great form, but Vettel and Kubica were challenging. Toyotas and Hamilton made their way from the back to podium contention.

2008 - based on winter testing everyone expected the domination of Ferrari and McLaren to carry on. But BMW Sauber and Kubica stunned in qualifying, almost taking pole position. Second on the grid. In the messy race of 7 finishers Heidfeld confirmed BMW's good form with second place, Rosberg got podium. Bourdais was 4th before retiring - strange that his best ever F1 race happened to be the first one, but it created an impression that he was the real deal. :) Reigning champion Ferrari had a mess of a race with both drivers spinning. First race without a TC after a long time by the way.

2003 - new rules, which demanded to qualify with race fuel. Created some unusual orders in qualifying. Ferrari dominated, but Frentzen in the Sauber was fourth on the grid and Panis in the Toyota fifth. Really was unsure, how good or fast anyone is. :p : The race was messy, it went all wrong for Ferrari, which indicated the difficult year they were going to face. McLaren had qualified in midfield (I think they were 11th and 15th on the grid), yet went on to win in the weather and safety car mess.

2002 - Schumacher won, that was sort of ordinary. But half of the field was wiped out and people, who qualified at the back and escaped the midfield chaos, like Irvine in the Jaguar, Webber in the Minardi and Salo in the Toyota, all got points. Alex Yoong finished his best ever 7th. :p :

[steveaki13]

Before the season starts... I thought I would recall my own most special memories from season openers.

2012 - RBR had dominated the previous season. So it was a surprise to see them suddenly down in 5th and 6th! Mercedes was fast, even if slow in the race. And Grosjean was 3rd! An unexpected qualifying session.

2009 - Friday Free Practice left an impression that the top three teams were Brawn, Toyota and Williams. People were left scratching their heads, because even Ferrari - who had been considered competitive in winter testing - wasn't at the front. And qualifying confirmed the stunner. Even Red Bull could beat all the works teams! Together with Brawn and Williams. A shocker. Then we had a messy race with tyres that hardly lasted (for the first time such experiment was used!). Brawn confirmed its great form, but Vettel and Kubica were challenging. Toyotas and Hamilton made their way from the back to podium contention.

2008 - based on winter testing everyone expected the domination of Ferrari and McLaren to carry on. But BMW Sauber and Kubica stunned in qualifying, almost taking pole position. Second on the grid. In the messy race of 7 finishers Heidfeld confirmed BMW's good form with second place, Rosberg got podium. Bourdais was 4th before retiring - strange that his best ever F1 race happened to be the first one, but it created an impression that he was the real deal. :) Reigning champion Ferrari had a mess of a race with both drivers spinning. First race without a TC after a long time by the way.

2003 - new rules, which demanded to qualify with race fuel. Created some unusual orders in qualifying. Ferrari dominated, but Frentzen in the Sauber was fourth on the grid and Panis in the Toyota fifth. Really was unsure, how good or fast anyone is. :p : The race was messy, it went all wrong for Ferrari, which indicated the difficult year they were going to face. McLaren had qualified in midfield (I think they were 11th and 15th on the grid), yet went on to win in the weather and safety car mess.

2002 - Schumacher won, that was sort of ordinary. But half of the field was wiped out and people, who qualified at the back and escaped the midfield chaos, like Irvine in the Jaguar, Webber in the Minardi and Salo in the Toyota, all got points. Alex Yoong finished his best ever 7th. :p :

Great memories there.

I loved 2002 to see so much of the backmarkers during the race was a treat. Remember Irvine being a Lap behind the top 3 and a Lap clear of Webber. Webber getting those points and the cheers of the crowd when Salo spun late on leaving Minardi to claim those points.

2005 was nother decent race. After the crazy Qualifying we saw Villeneuve running 4th and Red Bulls up the field, and fast cars coming from the back.

1999 Another crazy race, 7 or so finishers.

1998 My jaw was on the floor when Mclaren lapped the field, luckily it was a one off.

1997 was quite chaotic too. Frentzens brakes exploding and a first corner incident leaving Mclaren to win their 1st race since 1993.

[Natalie.S]

slightly off-topic, but I see that Mclaren have forbid their crew from wearing shorts this year. They claim they want to present a better corporate image to sponsors etc.
Where do you see that?
If it's in your head or imagination please don't bother to answer

[Mia 01]

As for now I will be very suprised if Fernando or Lewis winn this race.

[acescribe]

Where do you see that?
If it's in your head or imagination please don't bother to answer

It was mentioned during FP2 on Sky..

[truefan72]

It was mentioned during FP2 on Sky..

thanks acescribe, I wasn't even going to bother responding to her,

Some folks like to make fools of themselves, be it uninformed posts, or ramblings about hamilton that are not based in reality

[rjbetty]

Nice memory posts from Jens and Steveaki :)

Mine are slightly different.

One of my favourite races of all time was, strangely, the 2000 Australian Grand Prix. In the thread about the seasons we most anticipiated and looked forward to, I chose 2000, and it was just brilliant to finally see these new cars and driver combinations in action, and see who was competitive.

That race had the stunning Orange Arrows climbing well up the field before retiring, Salo running a very strong 7th in the Red Bull early on, the debut of Jenson Button (only just turned 20) who ran 6th before retiring in the closing stages. And it nice to see the new clean BAR Honda score their first points - for both cars. Also Ferrari were looking closer to McLaren than ever. The field behind the top cars seemed extremely close, and this promised a great season.

The 1999 weekend was also fascinating, and brilliant to see Eddie Irvine win his first Grand Prix, Frentzen doing so well after lean times and de la Rosa scoring for Arrows on his debut.

The 2003 race was interesting: As Martin Brundle said in the commentary "I genuinely have no idea who is going to win this race".

2005 was a very good one, being a HUGE Fisi fan. I was figuratively biting my nails all the way. No-one knew if the tyres weren't going to suddenly 'drop off the cliff' so to speak, and he never held much more than a few seconds lead throughout. The Red Bulls and especially Coulthard were mighty and Schumacher wasn't any faster than Raikkonen as they were both down the back early on.

[Tazio]

And then the rains came :dozey:
I read that they are expecting gusts up to 55 km/h today, that is pretty stiff :eek:

[Ranger]

One hour from qualifying and it just started raining again at the end of the V8 Supercar race. The sky is very dark already.

[Dave B]

The rain apparently knocked out the broadcast compound! Half hour to go and it looks to have stopped, but the track is clearly still soaked.

[Tazio]

http://yfrog.com/scaled/landing/862/9p7vz.jpg
30 minutes before Quali' with more rain on the way. :eek:
128 km Melbourne Radar Loop (http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR023.loop.shtml) :uhoh: :s pin:
Wind has been downgraded to 45 km/h.

[Dave B]

-10 minutes and it's chucking it down again :D

[truefan72]

http://yfrog.com/scaled/landing/862/9p7vz.jpg
30 minutes before Quali' with more rain on the way. :eek:
128 km Melbourne Radar Loop (http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR023.loop.shtml) :uhoh: :s pin:
Wind has been downgraded to 45 km/h.

sigh, I do despise rain
they do say the forcast is for a dry race tommorrow

but yeah, 10 minutes from Q1 and its coming down in buckets :(

[Tazio]

The race should be dry, but what will the grid look like?
BTW did they get Vettels car sorted out?

[Dave B]

Q1 delayed by ten minutes. :s

[Tazio]

What a mess!
I'm going out on a limb and predicting a Slash starts on the first 4 rows!

[truefan72]

why can't F1 come up with some track drying technology.

Hire 6 trucks with high powered blowers in the back and go around the track twice
might not completely dry he track but would speed things up significantly.

its not like they are lacking in money.

[Dave B]

A further ten minute delay, so at least 20 past before we see any running.

[pino]

Morning guys :D

[Ranger]

Just start already!!

If they wait much longer it will be dark... and still wet.

[Dave B]

Nice use there of the super-slomo replay: a guy sweeping up a puddle!

[Tazio]

See ya! QuakeNet Web IRC (qwebirc) (http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=f1technical) :p imp:

[Dave B]

Yet another 10 min delay. Come on, these guys can cope with a bit of rain - plus it'll be dark soon!

[ShiftingGears]

You know what I didn't miss in the off season? Stupid decisions like these.

[Ranger]

Yet another 10 min delay. Come on, these guys can cope with a bit of rain - plus it'll be dark soon!

This is embarrassing. Wet weather running seems to have been outlawed by the organisers. :down:

[truefan72]

You know what I didn't miss in the off season? Stupid decisions like these.

indeed!

the only way to dry the track is with the cars out running

don't want to see a twilight Q3

get Q1 started already!

[Natalie.S]

We've started stop moaning

[truefan72]

finally!

here we go
I'll admit, I got butterflies in my belly :)

[truefan72]

wow disaster for hamilton!

thankfully he saved it,
hmm, terrible start for him
too eager?

[Natalie.S]

Haha Rosberg way to go son

[pino]

Massa :s

[pino]

Mercedes looks very strong, or are just the drivers ? ;)

[truefan72]

great call from hamilton not to box
phew!

[pino]

Vettel on top now as expected...

[donKey jote]

morning girls :D

[pino]

Morning donkey !

[ShiftingGears]

Rosberg looking good.

[donKey jote]

happy new year y'all :p

[Ranger]

We've started stop moaning

I will express my opinion wherever I see fit.

Q2 is delayed.

[truefan72]

Hamilton survived Q1, thats all that matters, and Rosberg is on it!
at the dieing end of Q1 hamilton did put very good 2 first secotrs beforwe being forced to abandon it due to the accidents
So its looking good for Mercedes

Massa, massa! he can thank his patron saint that the Ferrari is built like a truck and lives to fight another day.
Vergne and that torro rosso look hooked up
Vettel and RB dangerous,
As for Mclaren, they are probably thankful for the conditions as its putting some makeup no their problems
surprised that the Sauber/Hulkenberg are not higher up.

And bottas getting the better of Maldonado. well probably his off had something to do with it

on to Q2

[Tazio]

Massa, massa! he can thank his patron saint
Saint Fernando? :confused: Bye! :wave:

[truefan72]

I wonder what Kovaleinen and Petrov are thinking right now
Geido crashes in dry and wet, p21 in Q1
pic p22 outside of the 107%

nonsense, Q2 delayed another 20 minutes
at this rate Q3 will be run in the dark

[pino]

20 more min delay ? :(

[Ranger]

They have delayed Q2 until 6:30pm local time... nevermind the rain, I'm not sure how much daylight they think they will get. :\

Also, 60% chance of rain for tomorrow.

Melbourne Forecast (http://www.bom.gov.au/vic/forecasts/melbourne.shtml)

[andyone]

Hamilton survived Q1,
Thats all what matters to me.. I was shocked


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[truefan72]

stupid reasoning given to Sky F1
apparently they added the 20 minute delay because reports have it that a shower may be imminent so rather than start and stop a "15 minute" Q2, they will wait for 20 minutes

ridiculous,

every year, F1 gets worse with their rain procedures. this is turning into a fiasco and botched call by the race director
If they could be racing in this condition, then they should be qualifying in this condition

This is also a consequence of pushing these start times so late in the evening. A few years ago we wouldn't be in this mess.

[Valve Bounce]

For those who are interested, here is the weather map: 64 km Melbourne Radar Loop (http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR024.loop.shtml)

The problem with Albert Park is that parts of the track are lightly trafficked during the year and part of it is a car park, while part of it is closed off, leading to variation in the surface texture in the wet. It is not that well drained anyway, so that doesn't help.

[Ranger]

stupid reasoning given to Sky F1
apparently they added the 20 minute delay because reports have it that a shower may be imenent so rather than start and stop a "15 minute" Q2, they will wait for 20 minutes

ridiculous,

Who said that?

[pino]

I honestly can't see reasons for this delay, yes the track is wet but I ve seen worst than this !

[truefan72]

They have delayed Q2 until 6:30pm local time... nevermind the rain, I'm not sure how much daylight they think they will get. :\

Also, 60% chance of rain for tomorrow.

Melbourne Forecast (http://www.bom.gov.au/vic/forecasts/melbourne.shtml)

yeah, sunset is officially stated at 8:30pm so there is a chance for at least Q2

[truefan72]

I honestly can't see reasons for this delay, yes the track is wet but I ve seen worst than this !

me neither. its just ridiculous. they could be on the track right now
times were tumbling at the end of Q1, if anything, they should have started Q2 earlier

[pino]

Crap, I need to walk my dog, cannot wait that long :mad:

[Tazio]

http://s15.postimage.org/87jif2tvv/domenicalli_girls.jpg Domenicalli http://i46.tinypic.com/hv9ul3.gifhttp://i46.tinypic.com/hv9ul3.gif :p imp: http://i46.tinypic.com/hv9ul3.gif

[donKey jote]

so what happens if it's cancelled... requally tomorow straight before the race?

[Valve Bounce]

Just because it may (or may not) be drier during Q2 doesn't mean it will be dry for Q3.

[donKey jote]

Crap, I need to walk my dog, cannot wait that long :mad:

get a longer lead ! :p

[Valve Bounce]

Crap, I need to walk my dog, cannot wait that long :mad:

Hehe!! there was a window of opportunity nearly an hour ago and I was able to take Benny down in very light rain. :)

[Natalie.S]

For those who are interested, here is the weather map: 64 km Melbourne Radar Loop (http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR024.loop.shtml)

Thanks for that
Seems there's some clear sky after all this rain
20 minute delay makes sense

[truefan72]

very pretty PR Woman with Gutierrez

[donKey jote]

what an anti-climax.. I'm glad I turned the alarm clock off at 6:30 and rolled over :p

[truefan72]

another 20 minute delay!

and now it starts raining harder

if they had started Q2 after the 10 minute delay, it would have been done by now

F1 is really screwing things up for the fans, drivers, viewers, etc

I'm pretty annoyed now

In fact if they dropped the green light at 2pm at the start of Q1, despite the rain, we would have been done by now.

[Natalie.S]

F1 is really screwing things up for the fans, drivers, viewers, etc

I'm pretty annoyed now
Nah you just seem to be a bit of a whiner ;)
Things like this happen

Just start in this order tomorrow and be done with it
Sh!t happens

[Ranger]

It will now be 6:50pm before qualifying resumes, with 40 minutes of qualifying to be completed.

I would love to know why exactly they think playing roulette with the weather is going to work, when all the while it is getting darker.

I am very underwhelmed with Charlie Whiting and the other race directors at the moment.

[Tazio]

They should just give the front row to Britney, and Fred :bulb: :wave:

[Tazio]

[00:41] <Mr_Alcatraz> Retarded Finns playing in the rain ;)

[donKey jote]

right I'm off to bed. need to get my beauty sleep before getting up tonight at 3am for the quali :laugh:

[ShiftingGears]

yeah, sunset is officially stated at 8:30pm so there is a chance for at least Q2

Sunset is 7:37PM.

[truefan72]

Sunset is 7:37PM.
cool, sorry about that, was off by an hour

thanks ;)

[donKey jote]

see y'all tonight 1 am CET :kiss:

[Ranger]

Qualifying delayed until 11am Sunday morning.

Pretty embarrassing I think.

[truefan72]

this is messed up, sunday morning Q2 and Q3

and I blame the race directors for this one. It's 3:50am here and I'm pissed
this was a situation entirely of their own making.
oh well

11 am melbourne time

[Tazio]

see y'all tonight 1 am CET :kiss:
:s ailor:

[Valve Bounce]

I just saw the weather forcast on Channel 9, and it is supposed to clear up after 12 noon tomorrow. It could rain tomorrow morning.

[Knock-on]

Bit of a joke. I think they should have just gone with qualifying.

Now we have a shortened window between Q and the race if a car needs repairing coupled with drivers needing to do a 2 session Q and a full race a few hours later.

Cock up

[donKey jote]

Cock up

as Billy's missus said to the bishop

[henners88]

Glad I didn't get up for that! lol

[Dave B]

That was a daft decision. It would have made sense if it'd stopped raining and they were waiting for the track to dry out, but the radar clearly showed intermittent moderate rain approaching the track, and so it proved. Those constant delays merely meant the standing water wasn't being cleared by big fat Pirellis, and all the while it was getting darker and darker.

Yes there were cars going off, but the circuit was by no means undrivable, and part of a grand prix driver's skillset it to drive within the limits of the car and the conditions. It's not easy, but it's not supposed to be.

Oh well, I'll have a quick disco nap this afternoon and stay up past my bedtime! :D

[EuroTroll]

Yup, a bad decision. :down: And I had to endure dozens and dozens of RTL's ads in the hope of seeing some action, eventually. :( I feel violated. (But now know very well what product to buy when my dishwasher gets dirty.) :p

[steveaki13]

Well looking at the positives.

That was a pretty exciting Q1 session. The Caterham drivers were all over the place.

Felipe returned to spin master and was very lucky to survive the hit and spin in his first incident. Mercedes look mighty in the Rain at least, Fernando looked good, the Mclarens on full wets were pretty much slowest of the main field.


As for the Qualifying session constantly being delayed. That was IMO a very weak decision. We have all seen F1 cars run in worse conditions than that and not seen mass injuries.

The race stewards are really becoming lame.


One other thought. What was wrong with Gutierrez? He was sat in the car for ages for no reason. Was he OK.

[A FONDO]

Even though I am unhappy for waking up early for nothing, I think the desicion was right, especially for this artificial narrow track. No doubt there would have been a massive carnage and many drivers complaining for yellow flags / water / darkness.

[Alfa Fan]

We all know its heading more and more like NASCAR, i.e. won't run in the wet. It's pathetic.

[keysersoze]

A big accident tomorrow during qualifying, with not enough time to make repairs, could prove disastrous for the team.

[wedge]

Seems I'm in the minority. Personally I think its a good idea. Its a show and the race comes first.

Considering its street track (of sorts) and Parc Ferme rules I'd rather see a healthy state of cars start the race.

However I greatly despise Charlie Whiting's overly cautious approach to race starts and SCs in the race. More than anything I blame Bernie and his obsession with start times to suit Europeans when ironically he is losing faith with the European TV audience.

[rjbetty]

I just saw the weather forcast on Channel 9, and it is supposed to clear up after 12 noon tomorrow. It could rain tomorrow morning.

That's brilliant. Wonder what will happen if it does. They might just cancel qualifying altogether and the Q1 result will make the grid.

I will be even more disgusted if that happens.

This is also taking away a rare chance of getting a mixed-up grid. Qualifying for the 1999 French GP was never cancelled.

[rjbetty]

Without wanting to sound like a conceited moron, with an attitude in the vein of "I told you so", for years I've seen it coming when wet-weather running will altogether become a thing of the past, and sessions and races will be stopped at any time of rain, just as it is in tennis or cricket.

"And this isn't cricket at all - it's motor racing". (thanks Murray W, Imola '99 :) )


Also, I think it would be a good thing for a few cars to skid off and retire for once. It will actually give Marussia and Caterham a chance, just like F1 has always been until recently.

I don't think there have been more than 8 or 9 retirements in any race since 2010 (14 or 15 finishers minimum).

[edv]

F1 could use a few of these:
http://aug-cdn.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/superphoto/10951861.jpg

[truefan72]

More than anything I blame Bernie and his obsession with start times to suit Europeans when ironically he is losing faith with the European TV audience.

That has irked me more than anything
it meant that there was not enough time for a proper Q sessions, as well as having the setting sun trouble many drivers in the race
it means that Malaysia starts right around the predicted shower times
it means that Korea race with rain and delays could finish in the dark like it did year 1.

it is annoying for sure and has caused more problems than benefits. And I doubt the numbers justified the moves anyway.
The real problem for europeans isn't the start times, but the increasingly prevalent pay-to-watch channels that are killing the interest and threatening to have kids and youngsters grow up in a world where watching an F1 race becomes a novelty.

[steveaki13]

Without wanting to sound like a conceited moron, with an attitude in the vein of "I told you so", for years I've seen it coming when wet-weather running will altogether become a thing of the past, and sessions and races will be stopped at any time of rain, just as it is in tennis or cricket.

"And this isn't cricket at all - it's motor racing". (thanks Murray W, Imola '99 :) )


Also, I think it would be a good thing for a few cars to skid off and retire for once. It will actually give Marussia and Caterham a chance, just like F1 has always been until recently.

I don't think there have been more than 8 or 9 retirements in any race since 2010 (14 or 15 finishers minimum).

Oz 2008. 5 Runners at the end, 7 classified finisers

[jens]

Didn't see qualifying. Later checked Autosport live comments. From what I read, Vergne was doing impressive times. Last year he impressed a lot in the wet as well. Perhaps these are the kind of conditions that complement his strengths.

And of course Rosberg was lighting up the timesheets. Very good showing considering Nico has never really shone in the wet, so it is good to see him coming to the fore. But let's see, what can Sunday offer us.


Qualifying for the 1999 French GP was never cancelled.

I recently watched this qualifying on YouTube. Well, in the last 20 mins, when most of the cars were out, there was a lot of spinning and aquaplaining going on, but the session was never red-flagged.

However, looking at that I can sort of understand the very strict safety measures we have these days. Because track marshals constantly had to push the trapped cars away from the scene, while others cars were going past at high speeds in treacherous conditions. Working in conditions like these is a very big risk for the life of marshals. And I can understand, why FIA and its strict safety measures want to protect their lives as well.

[Dave B]

That's brilliant. Wonder what will happen if it does. They might just cancel qualifying altogether and the Q1 result will make the grid.

I will be even more disgusted if that happens.
It would also be grossly unfair. Drivers don't go for ultimate lap times in Q1, the top teams merely aim to get through safely. I'll grant you that it would make for a stunning race, with such a mixed up grid, but it would be most unsporting.

F1 needs to go back to sensible local start times to allow for plenty of light, and accept that if and when it rains that's merely an extra test for the drivers. Obviously if it's a torrential downpour which makes the track undrivable or dangerous that's a different matter, but we certainly weren't near that today.

[teamleader]

I dont get it, if it rains they cancel it... but why??
All drivers got the same problem, and dont start about safety....... just take it easy and keep going....
Bad decision imo :mad:

[Duncan]

One other thought. What was wrong with Gutierrez? He was sat in the car for ages for no reason. Was he OK.

Apparently he's fine. NBC Sports had a brief post-session interview with him.

[edit] But, yes, I wondered that to. He did seem to sit there without moving for quite a while.

[wedge]

Well the starting order needs to be determined one way or other and its not necessarily fair eg. cars don't run oj ovals when its wet so starting grid is determined by practice times or points.

Some drivers may not be on the limit but neither were they banking lap times because the times were tumbling. Even Hamilton was told to stay out even though changing rear wing ended taking a couple of minutes.

[steveaki13]

Apparently he's fine. NBC Sports had a brief post-session interview with him.

[edit] But, yes, I wondered that to. He did seem to sit there without moving for quite a while.


Thanks

I was worried at first as I thought he would want to get out of the car quickly, as anyone else could make a similar mistake out of that corner

[zako85]

So the qualifying has been postponed until early Sunday morning? This seems like a reasonable decision.

[pino]

So 2nd and 3rd Qual sessions will start at 1:00 am cet, am I right ?

[steveaki13]

So 2nd and 3rd Qual sessions will start at 1:00 am cet, am I right ?

Yer I think so.

I know its 12pm GMT here so does that equal 1am?

[Valve Bounce]

I dont get it, if it rains they cancel it... but why??
All drivers got the same problem, and dont start about safety....... just take it easy and keep going....
Bad decision imo :mad:

OK, I just picked this post to reply to because many here, including myself, were puzzled as to why quals was cancelled. What if this happened just after the start?

Let me explain : Melbourne does not get the type of tropical downpours that one sees in KL, Singapore or even Hong Kong. So the pavement profiles (crossfall) and drainage are designed for the local conditions. Then there is the issue of the Albert Park track itself. I have a plan of the circuit, so I will try to give posters here a rundown on the normal usage of the roads that make up the track.
Turn 3 is near the aquatic centre and many cars go past it from a stop start situation, so it could be greasy. Turn 4 to 5 is a car park, so again you will have a different surface crossfall as well as texture. Turn 5 to 6 is normally closed during the year. Turn 6 to half way between turns 12 and 13 are heavily trafficked by commuters (not trucks) every day except during the GP with a speed limit of 50 kph. Turn 13 to turn 2 is very lightly trafficked and has a chicane of bollards at the pits and a speed limit of 40 kph normally.

Now for those who are wondering what the heck I am talking about, well the widely varying conditions outlined above will result in a different surface texture and profile, which gives the track different conditions when it rains.

So, I hope this helps to explain the treacherous conditions when it rains, not to mention the narrow sections of the track in many parts.

[pino]

Thanks steve :up: I will try to stay awake until that time...

[donKey jote]

me too....
and then wake up in time for the race again :dozey:

[donKey jote]

pissing down still btw...

[steveaki13]

Thanks steve :up: I will try to stay awake until that time...

No worries.

I am watching Cricket until then, then watching an hour of Quali hoping its not delayed more, then a few hours sleep before race time.

[steveaki13]

pissing down still btw...

Great thats all I need. Another hours less sleep

[donKey jote]

might be dry by Q3 yet...

[teamleader]

OK, I just picked this post to reply to because many here, including myself, were puzzled as to why quals was cancelled. What if this happened just after the start?

Let me explain : Melbourne does not get the type of tropical downpours that one sees in KL, Singapore or even Hong Kong. So the pavement profiles (crossfall) and drainage are designed for the local conditions. Then there is the issue of the Albert Park track itself. I have a plan of the circuit, so I will try to give posters here a rundown on the normal usage of the roads that make up the track.
Turn 3 is near the aquatic centre and many cars go past it from a stop start situation, so it could be greasy. Turn 4 to 5 is a car park, so again you will have a different surface crossfall as well as texture. Turn 5 to 6 is normally closed during the year. Turn 6 to half way between turns 12 and 13 are heavily trafficked by commuters (not trucks) every day except during the GP with a speed limit of 50 kph. Turn 13 to turn 2 is very lightly trafficked and has a chicane of bollards at the pits and a speed limit of 40 kph normally.

Now for those who are wondering what the heck I am talking about, well the widely varying conditions outlined above will result in a different surface texture and profile, which gives the track different conditions when it rains.

So, I hope this helps to explain the treacherous conditions when it rains, not to mention the narrow sections of the track in many parts.


Fair enough :)

[Valve Bounce]

pissing down still btw...

Only very light rain - I am walking to the supermarket in a minute.

Here's the radar for you: 128 km Melbourne Radar Loop (http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR023.loop.shtml)

[steveaki13]

So who is up and about still for this Quali session. (Unless your in Australia then I hope you are up) :p :


Should be good as long as there is no delays.

[rjbetty]

Basically, the Grand Prix weekend is in danger of being brought to a standstill due to the fact that it's been raining... :dozey:

Rain has been a common feature throughout the history of F1, as well as thousands of years in the Earth's history also. I just don't remember the drivers saying it was impossible and undriveable.

The way the F1 people go on, you'd have thought the lake was overflowing causing the track to be submerged underwater. :(

This looks like another of F1's persistent efforts to eliminate any possibility of driver error or car failure, so fans will not switch off if their favourite driver retires, thus losing F1 revenue. :(

[steveaki13]

Look at Australia in 89 & 91, Monaco 97, Silvestone 98 to name afew and it was much worse and they still did it.

It is a shame, but there we go what can we do.

[rjbetty]

I'm not doing much at the mo, so I'll stick around. :)

[steveaki13]

Time for Take 2.

Its On

[steveaki13]

Toro Rosso sitting for 4 minutes at the end of the pitlane. Strange. Theres going early and GOING EARLY

[rjbetty]

Look at Australia in 89 & 91, Monaco 97, Silvestone 98 to name afew and it was much worse and they still did it.

It is a shame, but there we go what can we do.

We can keep kicking up a stink until someone does something about it.

Maybe we should get to Albert Park and protest too.

So there are the protesters moaning because the race is happening, then us protesting because it isn't. :)

[donKey jote]

green :D

[steveaki13]

We can keep kicking up a stink until someone does something about it.

Maybe we should get to Albert Park and protest too.

So there are the protesters moaning because the race is happening, then us protesting because it isn't. :)

:laugh:

[pino]

Here we goooooooo !

[donKey jote]

more water on the way...

[rjbetty]

Is anyone following on the BBC website? This is what Jenson had to say:

'When it gets too wet for these tyres it doesn't matter what speed you driver
around, you will aquaplane. That is it. The tyre cannot take a certain amount of
water,' he said.
"'Especially when there is a river running across the circuit you don't know
where it is when you arrive. When it is this wet, there is no difference between
the rivers and the circuit because it is just like one big lake. And when you
hit a river you are completely out of control; you might as well close your eyes
and take your hand off the steering wheel because it does what it wants. And
that's not what F1 is about. It is about a guy trying to tame a 750bhp F1 car
but in conditions where he can tame possibly it because in this you can't. The
fans will get a much better show than they would have if we'd tried to run in
these conditions because we'd all be piled up at Turn One.'"


In other words, blah blah blah blah blah balance blah

Ohh I'm not feeling too generous tonight!

[steveaki13]

More rain possible. Time to get a lap in quickly

[steveaki13]

Nico is looking mighty straight away

[donKey jote]

so is massa :s

[steveaki13]

whos going to gamble on slicks. Would be risky

[donKey jote]

checo goes soft :eek:

[steveaki13]

Those going on slicks are Donkies. No offense Donkey :)

[Koz]

What a lucky Button.

[rjbetty]

Wow Rosberg looks quickest again!

Perez starts 15th, causing many of us concern over our FGP.

[steveaki13]

Wow Rosberg looks quickest again!

Perez starts 15th, causing many of us concern over our FGP.

Not for those of us with Button in our team. :p :

[truefan72]

mclaren continuing where they left off last year with bad decisions
terrible call and perez pays dearly

Rosberg seems like the man to beat, Hamilton needs to up his game
on to Q3

[steveaki13]

mclaren continuing where they left off last year with bad decisions
terrible call and perez pays dearly

Rosberg seems like the man to beat, Hamilton needs to up his game
on to Q3

Seems like a Mercedes and maybe Vettel & Alonso battle for the front 2 rows.

I think Nico has the pace here to grab pole today.

[Valve Bounce]

ANYONE on intermediates would be making a big mistake - I'e just been to the supermarket and the road is dry.

[steveaki13]

They are all on Inters at the moment

[donKey jote]

barbie is really switched on !

[donKey jote]

Vettel fastest even after a fairly big moment !

[steveaki13]

Jenson first onto Slicks

[donKey jote]

softies all round

[donKey jote]

kimi gone for a crap

[steveaki13]

Seb will be miles on pole

[donKey jote]

massa pips alonso by 3 thousandths ! :laugh:

[rjbetty]

Massa beats Alonso. :)

[steveaki13]

Red Bull walk in the park later. I thinks now we have seen that pace.

[rjbetty]

massa pips alonso 3 thousandths ! :laugh:

Looks like you pipped me by 3 thousandths too donKey. :)

[steveaki13]

Good job Felipe and Lewis and Mark and Seb.

Good job from them

[donKey jote]

ok see you in a few hours :)

[steveaki13]

Right then that was fun guys.

I am off for a :s nore: . Speak later.

[Garry Walker]

Good job Felipe and Lewis and Mark and Seb.

Good job from them

What exactly did "seb" and mark do so special? Red Bull is a second per lap faster here than any other car, you could put Pic and Chilton in that car and they would be dominant.
Well, season pretty much over.

[rjbetty]

I'll just post this in case people are on here wanting to know the results:

1.Vettel
2.Webber
3.Hamilton
4.Massa
5.Alonso
6.Rosberg
7.Raikkonen
8.Grosjean
9.di Resta
10.Button
11.Hulkenberg
12.Sutil
13.Vergne
14.Ricciardo
15.Perez
16.Bottas
17.Maldonado
18.Gutierrez
19.Bianchi
20.Chilton
21.van der Garde
22.Pic

[Robinho]

There's going to be some guys starting in the top 10 on some very second hand tyres. They've been destroyed in those wet/dry conditions, those who kept their tyres tidy or starting 11th down could be quicker at the start of the race

Sent from the moon using a shoe

[rjbetty]

What exactly did "seb" and mark do so special? Red Bull is a second per lap faster here than any other car, you could put Pic and Chilton in that car and they would be dominant.
Well, season pretty much over.

Oh here we go. :D

[steveaki13]

What exactly did "seb" and mark do so special? Red Bull is a second per lap faster here than any other car, you could put Pic and Chilton in that car and they would be dominant.
Well, season pretty much over.


Didnt crash.

[truefan72]

damn RBR is fast

but hamilton matched Vettel in Sector 1 and 2 and lost time in the final sector

what happened to rosberg?

Congrats Massa, I wonder if they will force team orders to let Alonso pass

I think Hamilton can take webber off the start, but webber is a terrible man to pass and will/could force an incident, if I was Hamilton I'd have a peek and then if not possible wait 2 laps and use drs...then hunt down vettel

overall i'm pleased, better than I expected from mercedes, come on Rosberg!

[Garry Walker]

There's going to be some guys starting in the top 10 on some very second hand tyres. They've been destroyed in those wet/dry conditions, those who kept their tyres tidy or starting 11th down could be quicker at the start of the race


You do realize they only did 1-2 fast laps on those supersoft tyres, right?
Oh, I forgot, these tyres only last 1-2 laps.

[Garry Walker]

I think Hamilton can take webber off the start, but webber is a terrible man to pass and will/could force an incident, if I was Hamilton I'd have a peek and then if not possible wait 2 laps and use drs...then hunt down vettel

!
Hunt down? LOL. Be serious.
Hamilton will see the back of Webber for 2-3 laps, then the Red bulls will disappear. Hamilton is by far the superior driver to the 2 red bull monkeys, but Mercedes is no match for Red Bulls.

[rjbetty]

Has anyone noticed that Paul di Resta is trying really hard to come across as cheerful these days? :D

[Koz]

You do realize they only did 1-2 fast laps on those supersoft tyres, right?
Oh, I forgot, these tyres only last 1-2 laps.

That's enough to start on pole. And get away before DRS kicks in...

[AndyL]

Is anyone following on the BBC website? This is what Jenson had to say:
...
In other words, blah blah blah blah blah balance blah

Ohh I'm not feeling too generous tonight!

I think when you've won a quarter of all the rain affected races since the end of the Schumacher/Ferrari-dominated era, you can say what you like about driving in the wet.

[AndyL]

mclaren continuing where they left off last year with bad decisions
terrible call and perez pays dearly

Yes not a very good start is it. A couple of others made the same mistake (Williams with Bottas, one of the Torro Rossos?) but they should have known better.

[truefan72]

I think when you've won a quarter of all the rain affected races since the end of the Schumacher/Ferrari-dominated era, you can say what you like about driving in the wet.

not really

you mean wet to dry, where he was nowhere in the wets and then benefited from putting on dry's at the right time
so where was he today?