Tire competition - good? [Archive]

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zako85

21st February 2013, 12:19

EuroTroll

21st February 2013, 12:33

Tazio

21st February 2013, 16:10

Tyre competition would definitely be good IMO, because it would add to the unpredictability of races. Michelin vs. Bridgestone was brilliant because you had some tracks that suited one more, and some that suited the other. You never quite knew if it would be the top Michelin or the top Bridgestone team that would take the honours.

Added to that, F1 is generally about competition in all areas of the car. There shouldn't be any standard parts.
Personally, as much as I enjoyed the tire competition of the past, I don't have a problem with a level playing field for the teams in the area of tires. Having said this, it all seems a little artificial and I think the FIA has gone overboard in wanting, and endorsing tires that:

mixes up the cards to help overtaking
It is yet another step in fundamentally changing the nature of F1 races. Like it or not we are going to have to live with it this season.
These new tires are overall softer than last seasons, and I think a large part of what is going on in testing is gaining a good working understanding of the new Perizzles that will be faster across the range when new, which I think has been borne out by the fastest lap times in this week’s testing.
They are bringing super soft and medium tires to Australia, so we should get a good idea of what we have to look forward to right out of the box.

Marbles, got to hate them!
http://img4.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Jenson-Button-McLaren-Formel-1-Test-Barcelona-21-Februar-2013-19-fotoshowImageNew-337237b8-663019.jpg

Edit: I just remembered I had a dream last night that Lewis took the lead going into the first lap of the first race, but went wide and was passed by several cars although the only ones I could make out were Jenson's and Nico's. It was also not Australia! :confused:

Garry Walker

21st February 2013, 16:57

Let's salute racing to delta time!

N4D13

21st February 2013, 17:13

Well, while I haven't been a Formula 1 fan for nearly as a long time as many people in this forum, I must say that I enjoy F1 these days and I have no qualms about it. :P I think it's fair that a team's performance should only be defined by what it does, and not by external companies such as tyre makers. Now, when everyone gets the same tyres, it's fair, isn't it? Everyone has the same chances and it's up to the teams to figure out how to make the best of the resources they're given. So in that regard, I'm OK with Pirelli being the sole distributor of tyres.

And, well, Pirelli has produced the tyres they've been asked for. In the end, it doesn't really matter whether the Pirellis last for an entire race or if they have to change tyres every ten laps or so. All teams have the same tyres and it's their responsiblity to make them work. As far as I'm concerned, the only difference between the Bridgestones and the Pirellis is that the former were much more boring.

Anyway, if you feel like it, feel free to start clubbing me for not being a purist at all. :p

EuroTroll

21st February 2013, 18:05

I think it's fair that a team's performance should only be defined by what it does, and not by external companies such as tyre makers.

By that logic, everyone should have the same engine as well. Would you like that?

Anyway, if you feel like it, feel free to start clubbing me for not being a purist at all. :p

:arrows:

Just kidding. ;) I'm not really a purist either as I've no problem with DRS. :uhoh: That's right, I just came out of the non-gay closet. :D

steveaki13

21st February 2013, 23:08

I always enjoyed the tyre wars in the past. It adds a different element to the racing, the problem with the 2001-2003 period was that Michelen had decent dry tyres, but wet weather races were one sided as bridgestone cars were 5-6 seconds a lap faster. Remember 2002 British GP & US GP 2003 as particular examples.

Races ruined by the poor development done by Michelen.

airshifter

22nd February 2013, 02:05

I don't think we need tire wars. I do however, think we need tires that don't limit performance much (if at all) and cause a race of tire strategy and no true racing. A level playing field in this regard is fine with me, but crap tires won't allow that as it will cause racing (as Garry Walker put it) to a delta time.

I know Pirelli can make the tires that will allow F1 to be a good show without trying to fix the show.

N4D13

22nd February 2013, 02:19

By that logic, everyone should have the same engine as well. Would you like that?
Well, I guess there's a difference between tyres as engines, since, as far as I know, no team in recent history has made their own tyres (has any team ever actually done this?). So while I understand the logic of your post, I don't really think it's the same situation.

Tazio

22nd February 2013, 02:39

I agree with N'3, that is an apples and oranges comparison. The McLaren ECU and the tires would be a more appropriate one IMHO. :bulb:

EuroTroll

22nd February 2013, 05:36

Well, I guess there's a difference between tyres as engines, since, as far as I know, no team in recent history has made their own tyres (has any team ever actually done this?). So while I understand the logic of your post, I don't really think it's the same situation.

You're right, it's not exactly the same situation, but what if all teams were supplied by a single outside supplier like Cosworth -- would you like that? You did say that "a team's performance should only be defined by what it does"... Right now, who's to say McLaren isn't better than Toro Rosso because of their superior engines? ;)

Personally, I do like the engine competition we have, and by the same token think there should be competition with the tyres.

zako85

22nd February 2013, 06:42

The way I see it, with tire competition the suppliers will hopefully design the tires in such way to make sure that the car will complete the race as fast as possible, be it with zero pit stops or ten. What we have right now is tires that probably on purpose limit car's performance and increase the number of pit stops.

N4D13

22nd February 2013, 10:48

You're right, it's not exactly the same situation, but what if all teams were supplied by a single outside supplier like Cosworth -- would you like that? You did say that "a team's performance should only be defined by what it does"... Right now, who's to say McLaren isn't better than Toro Rosso because of their superior engines? ;)

Personally, I do like the engine competition we have, and by the same token think there should be competition with the tyres.
I would be OK with tyre competition if it was something that teams could actually work on, instead of having an external supplier do the job. The current engine competition model is fine with me, as every team can build their own engines, even though they can actually choose to have an external supplier - but that was not the case with the Michelin-Bridgestone tyre war in the 2000s. So, yes - tyre competition would be OK with me if it was the teams who built their own tyres. However, I must admit that it would eventually make racing more boring, as we'd be back to the ever-lasting tyres we had with Bridgestone.

steveaki13

22nd February 2013, 20:13

Pirelli are making softer and softer tyres, but one of the best races last year was in Austin (which I heard a rumour the doc attended). But that was entertaining because no one was able to heat the tyres up, so maybe the way to go is harder tyres.

Ash Smalley

22nd February 2013, 20:25

More pit stops coming their way!!

donKey jote

22nd February 2013, 22:54

Austin (which I heard a rumour the doc attended)

more than a rumour... he even took his bitch along with him ! :kiss: :s ailor: :andrea:

Tazio

22nd February 2013, 23:47

It must be beer:30 :s tareup: :beer: http://i46.tinypic.com/hv9ul3.gif :s ailor:

rowse1992

23rd February 2013, 02:01

It's a little weird they were in the car cam of dan wheldon right before the accident...

truefan72

23rd February 2013, 02:01

Personally, as much as I enjoyed the tire competition of the past, I don't have a problem with a level playing field for the teams in the area of tires. Having said this, it all seems a little artificial and I think the FIA has gone overboard in wanting, and endorsing tires that

agreed :up:

steveaki13

23rd February 2013, 09:42

It's a little weird they were in the car cam of dan wheldon right before the accident...

:dozey:

Ash Smalley

23rd February 2013, 16:22

These new tyres are going to put the drivers to test :) and more action i think!

23rd February 2013, 16:52

A driver's capability to control their vehicle relies on the grip between their tires and the road.No doubt that's great initiative.Creating a highly productive, reliable and safe law enforcement vehicle requires staying up on the latest technology.
I agreed what's said above!!!

wedge

23rd February 2013, 17:23

"Extreme tyre wear 'an unpleasant surprise' - Perez"
"The wear is twice as high as last year - Brawn"
"I'm not sure if what the tyres are doing is what they (Pirelli) had expected - Ricciard"

Onestopstrategy.com >> Article >> Extreme tyre wear 'an unpleasant surprise' - Perez (http://www.onestopstrategy.com/dailyf1news/nieuw/article/19284-Extreme+tyre+wear+%2527an+unpleasant+surprise%2527 +-+Perez.html)

At this point I start wondering, why not bring back tire competition? It seems to me that the current single tire manufacturer approach has resulted in tires optimized for a good "show". But what we need is tires for good racing. Discuss.

In a tyre war the tyres are soft and if a brand brings a crap tyre then you have different class/race-within-a-race.

Bridgestone were too conservative, Pirelli are too concerned with the show - they can go conservative and let the drivers race to the limit and still having to manage the tyres as happened in the second half of last season.

airshifter

23rd February 2013, 17:55

I am under the impression that Pirelli are making the tire that F1 wants, but those tires are not what a lot of us (the fans) want.

Just my. 02

27th February 2013, 13:55

me too. Ive had wide 5s mounted and balanced at the chain store "NTB Tire and Battery"...they never had a problem. Even had some 195 45 15s mounted once without any problem...any NTBs in your area?

steveaki13

27th February 2013, 18:56

me too. Ive had wide 5s mounted and balanced at the chain store "NTB Tire and Battery"...they never had a problem. Even had some 195 45 15s mounted once without any problem...any NTBs in your area?

Can I just ask. Why no Ban yet? Clearly spamming or whatever and as some have pointed out repeating and copy posts from earlier times at other forums.