What if NASCAR took control of Indy Cars?

[MAX_THRUST]

There was some talk previously of Nascar starting their own open wheel series, but what if Nascar took control of Indy Cars? Would it be so bad? This probably won't happen but if it did what would be the positives and the negatives. I can only think of positives. I know this might be blasphemous to some.

Positives....

NASCAR is strong and has the tracks, the organisation, the stability, the TV coverage and the clout to make it work.
You may see drivers competing in both series as guest drivers in Indy Car.
The current NASCAR manufacturer engine suppliers, might get involved ie bringing Toyota back into open wheel racing.
Tracks, ok we may see more ovals, for me that isn't so bad, but like wise you may see more road courses for the trucks or nationwide series, with joint events with Indy Cars.
Related sponsors of existing NASCAR teams within Indy Car.
Indy Car mentioned on tele more than it is as you know NASCAR would promote it as they would want it to succeed as it would be in their interest. I don't think they would kill it off.

Negatives.....

They might kill off the series.
To many ovals, for road race lovers.

Curious to know what you all think?

[beachbum]

I read the title and immediately thought of a movie:

Gone in 60 seconds

[Starter]

They might kill off the series.
To many ovals, for road race lovers.

Curious to know what you all think?
The biggest negative would be that it would end any hope of the series growing back into truly fast cars and top speeds at Indy or anywhere else. They'll never let anyone upstage the stockers.

[MAX_THRUST]

The point I am trying to make here is that if it was their product, they would want it to do well. Surely they don't believe it would trump the stock cars? I think a NASCAR fan is always going to be pro NASCAR and an open wheel fan would always be an ow fan. I do see what you are saying though.

What I am thinking if it was theirs they would want it to be a success and could be in the best possible position for that to happen. In some ways they need to destroy it first to get it at a knock down price. They had an opportunity when CHAMP CAR failed but then they still would have been against the IRL and TG. So my thinking is this, they need the series to be unified and then fail.....

I know what I am talking about is never likely to happen, and this is purely superstition.

[MAX_THRUST]

Thinking about speed, NASCAR are doing 200 mph at Daytona, so maybe you are right. Why have a car that could do 220, and make the NASCARs look slow, but they are having to slow NASCARs anyway. 43 cars does not compare to 22-26 cars, what ever speed.

[DBell]

Max, you can look to Nascar's track record with other forms of motorsport. Grand Am sure hasn't ignited any passion among sportcar fans. AMA motorcycle racing is a shadow of what it used to be. It won't be producing any Moto GP champions anytime soon.

I think in the end, IndyCar would end up being something like Grand Am, racing so tightly controlled, it might as well be pure spec racing. Which isn't far from what it is now. I'm pretty much out the door regarding IndyCar, but I do hope against hope that someday they may be something worth watching for me again. I don't expect it, but I can cling to that slight, unlikely hope. But as Starter said, Nascar taking over would pretty much regulate it to being nothing more than it is now.

[SoCalPVguy]

What if NASCAR took control of Indy Cars?


Danica Patrick would be on the pole of every race and mysteriously drop back in the field and then win on a yellow flag for 'debris' restart after the top 12 cars run out of gas

[Starter]

What if NASCAR took control of Indy Cars?


Danica Patrick would be on the pole of every race and mysteriously drop back in the field and then win on a yellow flag for 'debris' restart after the top 12 cars run out of gas
I understand your disdain for the 'Danica', but an honest person would admit that she hasn't done all that badly over in stocker land. Better than many of the other drivers. And when one complains that the sanctioning body gives her the advantage, talk is cheap - prove it.

[FIAT1]

What if NASCAR took control of Indy Cars?


Danica Patrick would be on the pole of every race and mysteriously drop back in the field and then win on a yellow flag for 'debris' restart after the top 12 cars run out of gas

They know how to sell the story and promote their sport and kudos to them and Danica.Plenty of those buying it ,therefore why not. Control of Indycar on the other hand would mean vintage racing as far as open wheel in this country.

[Rex Monaco]

Assuming that NASCAR even wanted Indycar (they have to fix the recently re-united sports car series that their own power grab effed up), wouldn't their control of the top level American Stock Car, American Sports Car and American Open Wheel series raise anti-trust issues?

I would want to see how they do with their re-united sports car series before allowing them to touch Indycar.

[SoCalPVguy]

I understand your disdain for the 'Danica', but an honest person would admit that she hasn't done all that badly over in stocker land. Better than many of the other drivers. And when one complains that the sanctioning body gives her the advantage, talk is cheap - prove it.


You miss my point which was probably disguised too much in realist sarcasm...

If Nascar took over Indycar, "real" racing would be out the window, all competition would be "managed" on a race by race basis, favoring certain drivers, sponsors, and manufacturers, miraculously adjusting specs for one manufacturer versus another, the slowest cars would get allowable tweaks not available to the faster cars.... if they became faster then they get adjusted backwards... Nothing happens in Nascar by accident !

If Nascar took over Indycar racing look for low cost tube frame cars with the same stockblock engines as grand-am for economy of scale and allowance for teams to run cars and 'name drivers' in both divisions, in essence an open wheel grand am car.

and a real "honest" person would say the princess hasn't done shiite in taxi cabs, what in two years- one top ten finish in the minor league series plus one dummied up fake pole in the bigs.

Look at today's 125 qual race, she started on pole, was passed in the first turn and finished 17th. Same thing will happen Sunday -bet on it.

[nigelred5]

I haven't totally been against hte idea, mainly beecause they know marketing and own a ton of race tracks, many of which we would love to see Indycars return to.. More than likely, we'd essentially see a return to formula very similar to the original IRL. I seem to recall TG basically tried to create an open wheel version of NASCAR as it was. He worked closely with ISC and the Frances on more than one aspect of the IRL. Stock block based engines, tightly controlled, under powered high downforce cars and mainly american drivers on ISC ovals and maybe the glen again.......no way I see any way they could return to any sort of a tube frame chassis for 200+mph open wheel cars simply because you can't possibly make them safe enough for the FIA or anywhere close to acceptable safety standards....... ok i guess if that's your thing.

[MAX_THRUST]

Agree with Nigel, they couldn't go back wards on car design with tube frames.

I wasn't a huge fan of the IRL early days. NASCAR would no doubt run Nationwide and trucks at some where like longbeach, and the Indy Cars would be racing back at Michingan, in support of Nationwide series or trucks.

I do think the marketing machine would be a huge help for Indy Cars.

Interested in what was said above about the series trying to make parity amongst teams. CART did this witht turbo boost and really pissed off Honda I recall?

[SoCalPVguy]

I haven't totally been against hte idea, mainly beecause they know marketing and own a ton of race tracks, many of which we would love to see Indycars return to.. More than likely, we'd essentially see a return to formula very similar to the original IRL. I seem to recall TG basically tried to create an open wheel version of NASCAR as it was. He worked closely with ISC and the Frances on more than one aspect of the IRL. Stock block based engines, tightly controlled, under powered high downforce cars and mainly american drivers on ISC ovals and maybe the glen again.......no way I see any way they could return to any sort of a tube frame chassis for 200+mph open wheel cars simply because you can't possibly make them safe enough for the FIA or anywhere close to acceptable safety standards....... ok i guess if that's your thing.

I believe that as part of the IMSA take-over, Nascar now essentially owns Panoz, so they could make a bunch of DP01 knockoffs, put the 5.0L fuel injected Ford/ Chevy, er ah Hendrick/ Roush engine in it and go racing

[nigelred5]

I believe that as part of the IMSA take-over, Nascar now essentially owns Panoz, so they could make a bunch of DP01 knockoffs, put the 5.0L fuel injected Ford/ Chevy, er ah Hendrick/ Roush engine in it and go racing

Probably not too much of a stretch, though I"d rather see something like the ford tt V6 just unveiled for the Michael Shank Daytona Prototype.

[zako85]

I can imagine that NASCAR would mean two things: engineering stagnation and disappearance of the road and street courses. IndyCar has been recently moving away from exactly that model, despite its lack of resources.

[Jag_Warrior]

It's sad that I feel this way. But in light of where the series is now and how low this type of racing is on the public's radar, would it really matter??? To be honest, I'm not sure that NASCAR could do anything to the IRL... er "Indy Car" that it hasn't already done to itself. I don't know that there's been a more mismanaged business since Enron was on the ropes. Maybe, just maybe, NASCAR would bring in some real business people who actually understand how to mix business, racing and entertainment. I'm not saying it would be what us old heads would want (I don't expect the "good old days" will ever return). But at least it wouldn't be on crutches, stumbling toward the graveyard.

Something else I'll mention: what NASCAR has done/is doing with the Grand Am engine formula (and the DP formula) is pretty much what I think the goofballs at IMS/IRL/Indy Car should have done with the ICS engine formula. I used to hate Grand Am. But I now tend to pay at least as much attention to Grand Am as I do Indy Car - and from next year on, probably more.

The biggest negative would be that it would end any wish of the series improving coming back into truly fast automobiles and top prices at Indiana or anywhere else. And in fact they won't let any one the stockerz . . . . . .. .

[Chris R]

If NASCAR treated the two series properly it could be fine.... Market indycar to the "wine and cheese" and Midwest crowd and Cup to the beer and pizza and southeast crowd. Cup would still generate greater numbers and they could cross promote both series to grow overall viewership etc. I am not sure it would be bad.... Also, they seem to be getting he clue that the cup formula doesn't work for everything as the new sports car model seems a respectable compromise thus far.....

[Jag_Warrior]

Chris, I think the issue that NASCAR might have with that is they'd be giving up the wine & cheese crowd that they've managed to draw in over the years that open wheel has been in decline. While we might like to still believe that only "Bubbas" watch NASCAR, the last NASCAR race I went to, there were more Ferraris and Porsches in the parking lot than the last open wheel race I went to. NASCAR now has the major corporations and the B2B that CART used to have (that the ICS largely doesn't) and so that's where the movers & shakers go... if they go to races at all.

I just joined a new (multi-national) company around the first of the year. And while I'm still getting to know people, most everyone knows that I am a HUGE racing fan. The Americans will ask me who I like in NASCAR... and the Europeans will ask me who I like in F1. No one has asked me who I like in Indy Car. The closest I've come to discussing Indy Car is a brief chat I had the other day with a fellow who remembered who Team Rahal was (back when my former employer sponsored that outfit in CART). This outfit has a B2B relationship with Pepsi. So I'm sure that if we ever did sponsor a car, it would be in NASCAR.

I'm just not sure who the target demographic is for Indy Car these days. And I get the sense that the series doesn't know either. Has anyone seen a Joyce Julius report lately? I wonder what the demographic breakdown looks like these days.

[Nem14]

Back in the day when I tried my hand at stock car racing for a couple of seasons on a local track owned by the France family, it was explained to me by the track manager that NASCAR is in the entertainment business, not the racing business.

That is also true for most other sanctioning bodies. SCCA would be a notable exception, since SCCA racing does not depend on spectator attendance.

Engineering has been stagnant in most top racing series for many years now as a means to control costs.

F1, NASCAR, Indy Car - all essentially run spec cars.

Thank God NASCAR finally ditched carburetors in favor of fuel injection.

[Chris R]

Jag, Very fair point. I would argue that the bulk of Indycar fans are probably from a slightly more "particular" demographic - not necessarily wealthier - but "snootier" (I use that word for lack of any other and am perfectly content to lump myself in the snooty but not really wealthy crowd). HOWEVER, your point about the B2B crowd is far more relevant - I had not considered that..... CART had a huge B2B business and the perfect storm of the split and the end of tobacco advertising pretty much killed that.....(and then, when they finally did away with the split, it was at the start of the biggest economic downturn since the Great Depression - so there was no way to effectively capitalize on that ...)