F1 2013 Testing

[truefan72]

I guess its fair to start a thread for these sessions ( and perhaps the 1 or 22 in seasons tests if they do occur)
And of course, I'll start off with my obligatory question of;
"Will there be any streams for any of these tests? or are we resigned to yet another year of twitter feeds, and the occasional youtube video here and there"
http://www.motorsportforums.com/images/icons/cry.gif

[truefan72]

http://www.haluciondemo2.org/jerez.jpg


and despite Force India's early statements, it does look like there will be an on track shootout between Bianchi and Rossiter, probably for that vacant seat, if Senna doesn't swoop in with his trucks of cash. or they come to their senses and hire either sutil or kobayashi. also its good to see all 11 teams showing up for the first test.

[henners88]

Oops the title is wrong Truefan, should be 2013 :)

Bad start for McLaren with Jenson breaking down so early on. Hopefully it won't be another unreliable year for them. Nice to see the top teams out on track so early this year though, rather than keeping us all waiting half a day like last year. Williams running a 2012 spec car too.

[truefan72]

Oops the title is wrong Truefan, should be 2013 :)

lol just noticed it
Can the mods fix it please?

here are the first pics

Fotogalerie F1 Test Jerez (Tag 1): Neue Autos erstmals auf der Strecke (Bildergalerie, Bild 24) - AUTO MOTOR UND SPORT (http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/bilder/fotogalerie-f1-test-jerez-tag-1-neue-autos-erstmals-auf-der-strecke-6586383.html?fotoshow_item=23#fotoshow_item=49)

plenty of them

[truefan72]

Bad start for McLaren with Jenson breaking down so early on. Hopefully it won't be another unreliable year for them. Nice to see the top teams out on track so early this year though, rather than keeping us all waiting half a day like last year. Williams running a 2012 spec car too.

sadly and Rosberg in the Mercedes joins him with smoke coming out of the back
sight :(

[truefan72]

thank you pino or jens, or any of the other mods who fixed the title
yeah!

[Tazio]

Images are starting to roll in:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BCU5Ic4CUAAqw0K.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BCU4ehiCcAAYZEi.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BCU8wtTCUAAE0ZM.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BCU-aOoCYAEhhBY.jpg:large

[Tazio]

It is being reported that Buttons problem was a fuel pump issue.

http://www.motorsport-magazin.com/images/950/q_80/sw_adrivo/se_sutton/0469391.jpg

http://www.motorsport-magazin.com/images/950/q_80/sw_adrivo/se_sutton/0469393.jpg[/quote]

[Tazio]

Promising start to the season for Mecedes :eek: :p : ;)

http://s2.spiced.co/f1/full/5110d6470448ce0cef800dad895a8c1b39f9948dbff3a.jpg


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BCVR3EyCQAARTz9.jpg:large

[AndyL]

On the plus side, it looks like the Mercedes Coanda exhaust is blowing in the right direction:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BCVR3EyCQAARTz9.jpg:large

I wonder how long Marussia are going to leave it to decide who is going to be driving their car the day after tomorrow. I can probably get the day off work if they're really stuck :)



(Edit: Dr beat me to it!)

[TheFamousEccles]

Hooray! At last something real to look at/discuss/pore over ad-infinitum, much better than the off season - I hate that stuff.

[drive]

On the plus side, it looks like the Mercedes Coanda exhaust is blowing in the right direction:



wonder: is it THAT cold overthere and they preheat wheel nuts for mechanics... or is it new tyre heating system for merc?

[Tazio]

Eledtrical issue that ignighted bodywork is what was first reported on Autosport live,

10:02 Glenn Freeman has the latest on Mercedes's earlier stoppage - it was caused by an electrical failure, and the smoke was caused by the bodywork getting warm when the car stopped
http://live.autosport.com/commentary.php/id/549which doesn't explain it being engulfed in flames :p :

[Tazio]

"14:16 With nothing on track, now seems a good time to remind everyone of the big story this afternoon: Mercedes will not be back out today after an electrical problem forced Nico Rosberg to stop out on track earlier."

[AndyL]

End of day 1:






Time
Gap
Laps


1
Button
McLaren
01:18.861

37


2
Webber
Red Bull
01:19.709
0.848
73


3
Grosjean
Lotus
01:19.796
0.935
54


4
di Resta
Force India
01:20.343
1.482
89


5
Ricciardo
Toro Rosso
01:20.401
1.540
70


6
Massa
Ferrari
01:20.536
1.675
64


7
Hulkenberg
Sauber
01:20.699
1.838
79


8
Rosberg
Mercedes
01:20.846
1.985
14


9
Maldonado
Williams
01:20.864
2.003
84


10
van der Garde
Caterham
01:21.915
3.054
64


11
Chilton
Marussia
01:24.176
5.315
29



So 3 top teams coming to the front (for what that's worth) after Force India and Torro Rosso made the early running.

Reliability problems for McLaren and Mercedes. It put an end to Mercedes' day, but McLaren managed to get back out and get a reasonable number of laps in.

And Chilton had his first F1 crash, going off into the gravel.

[SGWilko]

Chilton's off was, I think, suspension (failure) related.......

[gloomyDAY]

http://i.imgur.com/liS7NIZ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/pEc4Mwp.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/5ZE393t.jpg

[gloomyDAY]

It is being reported that Buttons problem was a fuel pump issue.Fuel pump, eh? I guess they're still hoarding parts from Lewis' old car. :p

[RS]

Agree. The Sauber is the nicest of this year's cars by far. Hope it's fast too, I think Hulkenburg may have done the right thing getting out of FI seeing that they are now sniffing around for pay drivers.

[wedge]

If it means anything according to James Allen, Button was the quickest averaged over a 8 lap run on medium tyres.

[CNR]

Promising start to the season for Mecedes :eek: :p : ;)

http://s2.spiced.co/f1/full/5110d6470448ce0cef800dad895a8c1b39f9948dbff3a.jpg


PETRONAS reimagining energy just an ad for heaters

[truefan72]

and the german press has been brutal on Mercedes GP failing after 14 laps
i tread through about 4 or 5 different websites and their takedowns were mercilesss

[henners88]

It was only the first day of testing and considering some teams last year only ran on one day during the first test, they really don't warrant the criticism just yet. The German tabloid press are probably as moronic as ours in the UK.

[truefan72]

seeing hamilton in the mercedes will take a bit of getting used to

http://img4.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Lewis-Hamilton-Mercedes-Formel-1-Test-Jerez-6-Februar-2013-19-fotoshowImageNew-c4aa90ad-659286.jpg

and he's caused the second red flag by skididng off track and through the gravel
but he manged to post a p2 time before that so, encouraging
seems the car simply went straight on at turn 6
it may be driver error (hoping) or another mechanical problem with the car (discouraging) but it does look nimble though

[henners88]

seeing hamilton in the mercedes will take a bit of getting used to...
Its not so much seeing him in another Silver (or grey in this case) Mercedes for me as much as seeing him with that awful new helmet design. I really liked Hamilton's classic simple helmet design and now he's joined the likes of Vettel and Kimi with terrible modern adaptations. I know a lot of fans have expressed how much they love the change but I'm from an era where the simple recognisable designs gave the driver that identity and Hamilton's gave just that. Its a thumbs down from me and I hope he sees sense in future. Obviously its not really that important in the grand scheme of things, but its something many will notice. He also can't help having 'Monster' as a sponsor which doesn't help its appearance.

[TheFamousEccles]

That pic of the front of Lulu's Merc gives a very good perspective of how tortuous and complex the front wing elements are on a modern F1 car. I would say "awesome", though it is emblematic of the big problem of F1 - aero is everything. Front and rear.

And this isn't even the final iteration for the Merc (or the others, I would guess). I should have been an aerodynamicist, I am sure that all the big players have recruiters at all the major universities waiting to cherry pick the good ones, lock them in a room and make them churn out aero bits - a little like an infinite amount of monkeys banging on typewriters...

OK, back to the show... :vader:

[The Black Knight]

seeing hamilton in the mercedes will take a bit of getting used to



and he's caused the second red flag by skididng off track and through the gravel
but he manged to post a p2 time before that so, encouraging
seems the car simply went straight on at turn 6
it may be driver error (hoping) or another mechanical problem with the car (discouraging) but it does look nimble though

It was a loss of rear brake pressure which caused his accident, not driver error.

[craigc]

lets see how hamilton gets on

[SGWilko]

lets see how hamilton gets on

If only I had thought of that!

[henners88]

I hadn't even thought of that and I'm a Hamilton fan!

[henners88]

Mercedes not running again today as announced.

[AndyL]

Mercedes not running again today as announced.

Not a great start for them. Force India are really racking up the laps again though.

[AndyL]

Its not so much seeing him in another Silver (or grey in this case) Mercedes for me as much as seeing him with that awful new helmet design. I really liked Hamilton's classic simple helmet design and now he's joined the likes of Vettel and Kimi with terrible modern adaptations. I know a lot of fans have expressed how much they love the change but I'm from an era where the simple recognisable designs gave the driver that identity and Hamilton's gave just that. Its a thumbs down from me and I hope he sees sense in future. Obviously its not really that important in the grand scheme of things, but its something many will notice. He also can't help having 'Monster' as a sponsor which doesn't help its appearance.

Maybe it would be better if his employer had stricter rules about displaying personal sponsors' logos ;)

[henners88]

Maybe it would be better if his employer had stricter rules about displaying personal sponsors' logos ;)
Not quite sure I understand your point?

I can't see any personal sponsors displayed on Hamilton newly designed helmet. Could you elaborate?

[AndyL]

Not quite sure I understand your point?

I can't see any personal sponsors displayed on Hamilton newly designed helmet. Could you elaborate?

Sorry I thought Monster was a personal sponsor. They have personal helmet sponsorship with a lot of bike racers so I assumed this was the same.

[wedge]

Sauber's sidepods are giving a people a semi up and down pit lane and across the interweb

http://www.motorsport-magazin.com/images/950/q_80/sw_adrivo/se_sutton/0469613.jpg


Caterham have a winglet on their coanda exhaust which have raised a few eyebrows

http://thumbsnap.com/sc/XlzOz9v4.jpg

[gloomyDAY]

Lewis' brakes failed on his car, so Mercedes cancelled Day-2 of testing.

I really can't tell the difference between Nico and Lewis' car:

http://i.imgur.com/1bQafHP.jpg

[steveaki13]

Some early issues for Mercedes then. At least it gives them a chance to fix them.


I also agree about the helmet design Henners. Simple signatures of driver is what I want.

As for the Sauber... I love Dat Car.

[steveaki13]

FIRST PRE-SEASON TEST, DAY TWO, JEREZ, SPAIN, FASTEST TIMES
1 Romain Grosjean (Fra) Lotus-Renault 1:18.218
2 Paul di Resta (GB) Force India-Mercedes 1:19.003
3 Daniel Ricciardo (Aus) Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:19.134
4 Mark Webber (Aus) Red Bull-Renault 1:19.338
5 Nico Hulkenberg (Ger) Sauber-Ferrari 1:19.502
6 Lewis Hamilton (GB) Mercedes 1:19.519
7 Sergio Perez (Mex) McLaren-Mercedes 1:19.572
8 Felipe Massa (Brz) Ferrari 1:19.914
9 Pastor Maldonado (Ven) Williams-Renault 1:20.693
10 James Rossiter (GB) Force India-Mercedes 1:21.273
11 Giedo van der Garde (Ned) Caterham-Renault 1:21.311
12 Luiz Razia (Brz) Marussia-Cosworth 1:23.537

[steveaki13]

Poor quality, but a view of Lewis Hamiltons accident


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqE1Uw0mcDQ

[TheFamousEccles]

Poor ol' Lulu - I hope this isn't a portent of the season for him...

[CNR]

Lewis' brakes failed on his car, so Mercedes cancelled Day-2 of testing.

I really can't tell the difference between Nico and Lewis' car:

http://i.imgur.com/1bQafHP.jpg

it may be the same car for testing Lewis Hamilton crashes new Mercedes F1 car (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/feb/06/lewis-hamilton-crashes-mercedes-f1)
Lewis Hamilton crashes new Mercedes F1 car – day after it caught fire

[keysersoze]

Its not so much seeing him in another Silver (or grey in this case) Mercedes for me as much as seeing him with that awful new helmet design. I really liked Hamilton's classic simple helmet design and now he's joined the likes of Vettel and Kimi with terrible modern adaptations. I know a lot of fans have expressed how much they love the change but I'm from an era where the simple recognisable designs gave the driver that identity and Hamilton's gave just that. Its a thumbs down from me and I hope he sees sense in future. Obviously its not really that important in the grand scheme of things, but its something many will notice. He also can't help having 'Monster' as a sponsor which doesn't help its appearance.

Oh great, I hadn't thought about the fact that Lewis and Nico both sport yellow lids. It won't be a big deal after the first few laps, but differentiating the two at the start (and if they're running in tandem) may be problematic.

[gloomyDAY]

Here's an album covering Day 1 & 2 at Jerez: Photo Album - Imgur (http://imgur.com/a/rj587#0).

[henners88]

Sorry I thought Monster was a personal sponsor. They have personal helmet sponsorship with a lot of bike racers so I assumed this was the same.
No Monster has been a team sponsor since the Brawn days of 2009 ;)

Apologies for the patronising 'wink' at the end, I'm only returning it and don't really mean it. :)

[henners88]

If Lewis has to hit unreliability at all this season I'm glad its happening now and hopefully the faults can be ironed out. Must be frustrating to have been waiting months to get in the car only to have it cut short. Sitting out today must be annoying too.

[Tazio]

Pic's Caterham brings out red flag:

10:24 Red flag. Pic has stopped on track.

10:32 @MyCaterhamF1: Technical issue brings @Charles_Pic1 to a halt on track. No damage to Charles or the car so we'll get him back and take a proper look.

10:41 Wow - our first sub 1m18s lap of the week comes from Felipe Massa in the Ferrari. He's fastest on 1m17.879s.

The track temp is up to 22 we may see some more "fastish" times if teams are in low fuel mode at some time in their programs today.

[AndyL]

Mercedes are making up for their lost time, 70 laps already today.

Massa's 1:17.8 is just a couple of tenths off the fastest time in this test last year.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

How difficult is it going to be to tell the difference between Rosberg and Hamiltons helmets?

[henners88]

How difficult is it going to be to tell the difference between Rosberg and Hamiltons helmets?
I don't see why either should be forced to change their colour either though. They have both had yellow helmets throughout their careers and the fact they are now both in the same team is just tough. Mercedes should make the distinction on the cars if they are worried IMO.

[Norwegian Blue]

Actually didn't Rosberg have a mainly Blue lid for the first few years? Would be great to see that return!

[henners88]

It was blue, white and yellow in his first Williams years. The yellow was still predominant on the lid from what I remember.

[Tazio]

Mercedes are making up for their lost time, 70 laps already today.

Massa's 1:17.8 is just a couple of tenths off the fastest time in this test last year.


I think it bodes well for Ferrari that Massa stated yesterday that he was impressed with the car as opposed to last year.

"Last year I remember I was struggling a lot to drive the car. It was difficult to keep it on the track.

"This year the base on the car is different. It is more balanced, and I felt a good direction in the middle of the car as well. It didn't lose traction


A year ago, after the first day, Massa phoned Di Montezemolo and described the car as "a disaster".
You cannot draw conclusions from the first week of practice, but it is starting to look very likely that Ferrari will not be starting anywhere near as far on its back foot as last season.

[N4D13]

Regarding Hamilton's and Rosberg's helmets, this might be useful:

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5118/ded1305fe20.jpg http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/9754/ddr1304fe087.jpg

Can you guess who is who? Most importantly, could you guess it during a race?

Bigger sizes here (http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/5118/ded1305fe20.jpg) and here (http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9754/ddr1304fe087.jpg).

[andyone]

the one on the right is Lewis and on the left is Niko.. Hamiltons yellow is a bit dark. and Nkos is a bit lighter. i think so. am i right? lewis on the right

[Tazio]

I just read this short piece about Alonso, and apparently my theory about him missing this practice due to back issues is erroneous.
He tweeted this morning that he cycled 88km and planned on running in the afternoon.
(although the the Spanish says tomorrow) :confused:




3:20h - 88 km bici esta mañana. Comer y running esta tarde. 3:20h - 88 km bike this morning. Run in the afternoon.
https://twitter.com/alo_oficial


Jerez is struggling without Spanish hero Fernando Alonso. The 2012 runner-up and Ferrari driver elected to sit out the opening test of the pre-season in favour of cycling training in a hot country -- possibly the Canary Islands.
F1Today.net - Formule 1-nieuws, live verslag, live updates, f1 test, uitslagen, gp2, gp3 (http://www.f1today.net/en/news/jerez-struggling-without-alonso)

[Tazio]

The Force India engineer escaped serious injury when he was struck by test driver James Rossiter at the session in Jerez after he missed his breaking point when returning to the pits.

The mechanic was thrown into the air when he was struck in front of the garage and was rushed to hospital for medical checks.

A team spokesman later confirmed he had been fortunate in avoiding serious injury despite being bruised and shaken.
F1 mechanic's lucky escape after being hit by car | Metro News (http://metro.co.uk/2013/02/07/force-india-mechanics-lucky-escape-after-being-hit-by-f1-car-3397527/)
A guess the youngster had a moment! :eek:

[truefan72]

Regarding Hamilton's and Rosberg's helmets, this might be useful:

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5118/ded1305fe20.jpg http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/9754/ddr1304fe087.jpg

Can you guess who is who? Most importantly, could you guess it during a race?

Bigger sizes here (http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/5118/ded1305fe20.jpg) and here (http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9754/ddr1304fe087.jpg).

Hamilton on the right
Rosberg on the left, Hamilton has a slightly more golden look and Rosberg has a brightish yellow look for his

but it really is a bit bothersome

[Robinho]

A guess the youngster had a moment! :eek:

hardly a youngster by F1 standards, he's 29 and been testing F1 cars in 2006, '07 and '08, plus racing various series before and since

[Tazio]

hardly a youngster by F1 standards, he's 29 and been testing F1 cars in 2006, '07 and '08, plus racing various series before and since29 is precisely 1/2 my age, and two years younger than my youngest offspring (that I know of) that makes him a yougster to me) :)


http://i.imgur.com/Z2RcxGk.jpg

Classic F1 race USGP CotA :s tareup:

[Robinho]

I'll give you that one then, but must insist that you now refer to all the drivers as youngsters (or whippersnappers) and also Christian Horner ;)

Sent from the moon using a shoe

[SGWilko]

(although the the Spanish says tomorrow) :confused:

Manyana - or whatever they call it! :D

Or am I getting confused with a critical flaw in the RBMK reactor...

....er, nope, that's Ignalina!

[N4D13]

Is PdlR the Carlos Sainz of F1? In his first outing as a Ferrari driver, he's only been able to do two laps before the car broke down. Now that's unlucky...

[Tazio]

I'll give you that one then, but must insist that you now refer to all the drivers as youngsters (or whippersnappers) and also Christian Horner ;)

Sent from the moon using a shoeLol, Houston to Robinho we have a problem :p :
Since Horner will turn 40 this season that one would be a stretch even for me. And the colloquialism "whippersnapper" is not in my vocabulary, "punk" is the term used in this neck of the woods. :bulb:

Back to testing; did the Scuderia send PDLR out in a red HRT :confused: ;)

[Tazio]

Manyana - or whatever they call it! :D

Or am I getting confused with a critical flaw in the RBMK reactor...

....er, nope, that's Ignalina!Sounds like you understand about as much Spanish as I do! :bandit: ;)

[Robinho]

Lol, Houston to Robinho we have a problem :p :
Since Horner will turn 40 this season that one would be a stretch even for me. And the colloquialism "whippersnapper" is not in my vocabulary, "punk" is the term used in this neck of the woods. :bulb:

Back to testing; did the Scuderia send PDLR out in a red HRT :confused: ;)

How about "Hipster", is that what we're supposed to use for youngsters who dress perfectly normally but in something we don't quite understand?

not an auspicious start to PDLR's Ferrari career, maybe he is on some McLaren payback programme?

[Tazio]

How about "Hipster", is that what we're supposed to use for youngsters who dress perfectly normally but in something we don't quite understand?

not an auspicious start to PDLR's Ferrari career, maybe he is on some McLaren payback programme?I don't dress very conservatively or formally unless absolutely necessary. The term individual comes to mind however.

As for PdlR that was a gearbox issue which is not a good sign. Plenty of time to sort that out before the start of the season....I hope :uhoh:

[gloomyDAY]

Ferrari burst into flames. (http://i.imgur.com/d8eXVqt.jpg) I'm glad PDR is directing the fire marshalls. :D

[przemson]

;)

[Jeff Solo]

Ferraris still looking a lot more like a tidy unit, unlike last years mess


Lovingly sent from my sexy iPhone using Tapatalk

[rjbetty]

Ferraris still looking a lot more like a tidy unit, unlike last years mess


Lovingly sent from my sexy iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep. Massa looks a lot more tidy unlike last year's mess too. :) Will be interesting to see what he can do. Hope he can return to the winners circle - maybe on more than one occasion?

Welcome on board by the way. You must be related to Han? :)


Sent from my Pot Noodle using a fork.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Unless they've been doing glory-runs, the Saubers look even better than last year. :) German media alledge that Hülkenberg said in a team meeting : "Boys, this car goes like the devil. I can't wait for the test in Barcelona and the first race in Melbourne."

They had one win as BMW, but I really would like to see them take a race this year - 20 years after joining F1. Gutierrez is a bit of an unknown, but with Hulk they have the man to get the job done :)

[rjbetty]

Unless they've been doing glory-runs, the Saubers look even better than last year. :) German media alledge that Hülkenberg said in a team meeting : "Boys, this car goes like the devil. I can't wait for the test in Barcelona and the first race in Melbourne."

They had one win as BMW, but I really would like to see them take a race this year - 20 years after joining F1. Gutierrez is a bit of an unknown, but with Hulk they have the man to get the job done :)

WOW thanks for posting that DJ! This makes me excited! Contrary to my prediction, I now believe Sauber are going to be VERY strong indeed this year - or one of their cars is at least.


CONCLUSIONS FROM TESTING - Yeah I know you can't make any at this stage, but I don't care - I'm doing it anyway!

McLaren - With all the worrying about Button being finicky about handling, it's easy to forget that he is very capable of putting a strong season together (2004, 2005, 2010). Actually I don't think he's really much worse than Raikkonen at going off the boil when the car doesn't suit. I think McLaren have the best car and if Jenson does his bit, he can take his 2nd title.

Red Bull - I just don't know if the Adrian Newey talk about diminishing returns etc is just a smokescreen. I wouldn't be surprised given how secretive Red Bull are being. They could turn up and blow everyone away. Don't worry aki13, I really don't think it will be quite like that. There is hope since though they were strong at the end of last year, they still didn't have it all their own way. I think Webber is going to have a poor year and may not even be in the top 6 in the WDC. He may even retire this year; he seems fed up now.

Ferrari - don't know, but Alonso should be in a better position than last year. But how much can he give after last year; he is relentless but still a person who needs to sleep etc. I am believing Massa can have his best year since his crash and can win a race this year!

Lotus - The biggest unknown. Kimi's fans are a bit OTT and I still feel he is overrated. I strongly feel he was probably about 0.4sec slower than Lewis last year. He wasn't any quicker than semi-rookie Grosjean - let's be real and stop being crazy saying he's the best - he's got quite some way before toppling those at the top. James Allison has said the car is competitive. What that means who knows? But it should mean they won't go backwards, so I say they will step forward a little, but not enough for the WDC. I don't think Grosjean will win a race, but really hope he does.

Mercedes - are not going to be scoring lots of podiums and wins just because Lewis is there. They may even slip backwards but with a stronger new driver they should at least be as strong as last year. Might struggle to score more than 200pts though.

Sauber - I believe what dj posted that the Sauber is a bit of a rocketship and Hulkenberg can challenge for a top 8 in the WDC. He may win a race, or may even have a Jenson 2004 style year!! A dead cert for at least 5th in the WCC if it weren't for Gutierrez so I say 6th. Esteban may get that 2nd place I predicted if the car is that good.

Williams - I'm not so sure; they do look to be in disarray... But I still expect they won't go far backwards and can build on last year. But I think they will struggle to repeat the win.

Toro Rosso - Every single year it is said they are strong in testing, only for them to be well down in the midfield during the season. I'm taking strong testing times with a pinch of salt, but this time they may actually be decently competitive. Chided after last year, the team may have produced a more aggressive car and the drivers I think will be a lot stronger; on the same level or better than Buemi and Alguersuari in 2009 - except Ricciardo and Vergne will be doing it in their 2nd season, not their 3rd. They were a little off the pace last year but it could so easily be very different this time - that is often the case.

Force India - Well Paul appears hungry which is good. I don't understand the incredible amounts of hate this guy is receiving lately, with people thinking he should be replaced by Kobayashi being the most laughable assertion. I don't expect a lot from this team, especially with the 2nd driver. Don't be fooled by fast times - it's the same every year.

Caterham & Marussia - I would tip at least one for a point - that was until they changed their drivers. Now I believe it's most likely another pointless season will follow. Caterham will probably drop back during the season.

[steveaki13]

Come on.

There must be a point somewhere this season for Marussia or Caterham. Either in early season with unrealiability or somewhere like Monaco or Sinagpore.

[Natalie.S]

Come on.

There must be a point somewhere this season for Marussia or Caterham. Either in early season with unrealiability or somewhere like Monaco or Sinagpore.
Caterham perhaps with van der Garde
He seems able to extract good results from difficult races
I can see him surprise in a wet weather race or one with a high attrition rate

[rjbetty]

I hope so...

But since there are no races with high levels of mechanical unreliability anymore, we have to rely on cars in front crashing etc. It is brilliant that the cars are much stronger these days but it also means when drivers collide, they are able to continue when in the past it would be over. What's more, the previously common sight of a car beached in a gravel trap is all but consigned to history, since cars that make mistakes just use the run-off to instantly rejoin just like in the Codemasters games.

We can't rely on wet races since those are now being phased out, although light rain is still ok for now. Just as in tennis or cricket, when it gets heavier, rain stops play. I actually don't remember in the past drivers crying about cars being "undriveable", "not designed for these conditions" etc. It's only in recent times they all do that.

All this means that the bottom teams simply have to get in the top 10 on performance. I think that the bottom teams need to get under 1.0sec to the nearest established team driver on average in qualifying.

In 2010, Alguersuari was 18th best qualifier, on about +2.2sec. Trulli was the quickest new-team guy on +4.2sec. So the gap was 2.0sec.

In 2011, Williams were the worst established drivers. I think they were on about +2.2/2.8sec off on average. Kovalainen was the next best on +4.2sec. The gap was just over 1.5sec.

In 2012, Jean-Eric Vergne averaged about +1.8sec, Kovalainen was a smidgen under +3.0sec.

Despite Caterham's disappointing season, they did at least get closer to the points, in Valencia and Brazil. I think they looked worse than they were since amazingly, 8 teams came up with potentially winning cars. Even Ricciardo was only +1.4sec off on average in qualifying, though he was 17th best in 2012. So the Toro Rosso was clearly nowhere near as bad as people make out.

I don't know what kind of average the worst established team driver will make this year, but I'm guessing about the same, +1.8sec. This means the bottom teams really need to get a car averaging 2.8sec off really to have a realistic chance.

Since Marussia averaged +4.1 and +4.5sec last year for Glock and Pic, the 2.3sec gap to Vergne seems way too much to bridge, even if Marussia do make a good jump forward. With Glock replaced by someone less able, it looks even worse.

As for Caterham, they've got rid of 2 good drivers, and may actually slip back from the front teams a little. I don't see them averaging better than +3.5.

It's all too far to get close to Toro Rosso etc on performance, so we've just gotta hope something crazy does happen in one race, as it surely must eventually do.



I think they will have to wait till 2014, where I expect the car gaps to be drawn right out again and the cars to be maybe less reliable.

[wedge]

By Gary Anderson's calculations Mercedes is rated and RBR slated:

BBC Sport - Number crunching gives early F1 form guide - Gary Anderson (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21417831)

[rjbetty]

Hmmm interesting, but there's no way I believe Red Bull aren't going to be right at the front. Even if everything Adrian Newey says about 2013 being disrupted by the 2012 title push, running out of ideas etc is genuine, Red Bull are too strong to go from where they were to being much lower. I do now think Jenson can take the title if he drives like 2011.

I would like to see Red Bull's faces if Vettel fails to take the title this time. He didn't react that well in 2009. It will be a great send off for Mark Webber. :D

[truefan72]

Hmmm interesting, but there's no way I believe Red Bull aren't going to be right at the front. Even if everything Adrian Newey says about 2013 being disrupted by the 2012 title push, running out of ideas etc is genuine, Red Bull are too strong to go from where they were to being much lower. I do now think Jenson can take the title if he drives like 2011.

I would like to see Red Bull's faces if Vettel fails to take the title this time. He didn't react that well in 2009. It will be a great send off for Mark Webber. :D

sadly for us, it doesn't matter if red bull are there early, because come mid season they will be right there and by the late asian fly away's they will dominate, that's been their ammo
I hope I'm wrong this year.

[airshifter]

By Gary Anderson's calculations Mercedes is rated and RBR slated:

BBC Sport - Number crunching gives early F1 form guide - Gary Anderson (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21417831)

I can see the logic in his calculations, but the problem is he never really knows who is showing their full hand in testing. Especially this early in in testing. It's still a shot in the dark with all the development and so many factors involved.

[Knock-on]

First test is normally testing base (new) car with limited upgrades to compare with known data against last years car. Sandbagging has no value but as you dial out the core componnts, you fine tune as you develop.

So, unlike when we had loads of testing, the tems will be trying to ascertain eactly where they are with the package as a whole and testing data becomes a bit more representative of where the cars are.

While not definitive, the data has a fair degree of relevance IMHO but I agree about Red Bull. They my be having a slow ramp up but come Aus or a couple of races in, will probably be fully up on their development curve again.

[52Paddy]

Formula 2013 build-up gets serious as Barcelona test kicks off - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105604?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

Will be interesting tomorrow.

[Tazio]

Yes our first look at the FW35, and long run data could be revealing this week :up:
And..........Slash will be on track for FI :)

[steveaki13]

And..........Slash will be on track for FI :)

What happens if a Lotus runs into Sutil. :uhoh:

[steveaki13]

What happens if a Lotus runs into Sutil. :uhoh:

Or Sutil runs into a Lotus. :eek: :ninja:

[Tazio]

What happens if :uhoh:
In the immortal wordes of Dennis Hopper:
"Bad things man, bad things!"
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii205/duhhh1234/sutilslasher.jpg

[dj_bytedisaster]

Very funny, guys ;) The fact that Sutil was sentenced to only 18 month probation says a lot. Normally 3 years - and maybe probation as a first time offender - is the 'normal package' for assault. You'd think in this day and age we'd know every little detail about the incident, but strangely we know rather little. Hamilton was prevented from testifying under more than suspicious circumstances, too.
I for once would like to know the true story, because I'm pretty sure the little we were fed as official news is not even half the story. What for instance was Lux's part in that, because even without knowing him personally, I would hazard a guess that Sutil doesn't just assault a random guy out of boredome, so there has to be a background story on that.

[truefan72]

cool testing back on the way

a great side by side comparisons of 2012's vs 2013's
Formel 1 - News, Interviews und Live-Ticker - AUTO MOTOR UND SPORT (http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1-606153.html)

[RS]

How do Williams get away with having such a high nose or is the image deceiving me? I thought the purpose of the new rules last year which caused the horrible step was to get the front of the nose lower and this years vanity panel would just smooth out the step, but the tip of the Williams nose still looks really high to me. Looking again it seems the front wing protrudes really far in front of the nose. Perhaps they are counting that as the "nose" so that they can keep the nosecone high?

http://www.williamsf1.com/Global/Images/Resizable/Resized/FW35_Side_Profile-gallerywide.JPG

[EuroTroll]

Wow. That car looks like it had a nose infection resulting in an amputation. :eek:

[dj_bytedisaster]

That comes close to the tusk-nosed car in sheer ugliness *just no*

[RS]

It's similar to what Ferrari have done with this years car:

http://img2.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Ferrari-F138-Test-Jerez-2013-Technik-19-fotoshowImageNew-92f69bd4-661120.jpg

[truefan72]

How do Williams get away with having such a high nose or is the image deceiving me? I thought the purpose of the new rules last year which caused the horrible step was to get the front of the nose lower and this years vanity panel would just smooth out the step, but the tip of the Williams nose still looks really high to me. Looking again it seems the front wing protrudes really far in front of the nose. Perhaps they are counting that as the "nose" so that they can keep the nosecone high?

http://www.williamsf1.com/Global/Images/Resizable/Resized/FW35_Side_Profile-gallerywide.JPG

hmm this williams looks suspect
perhaps there will be a change of nose before the first GP
but if it does and they turn out to be winner,s then I'm sure all the teams will be scrambling to copy it ASAP

[52Paddy]

Very strange design philosophy by Williams. I'm expecting it's to loophole the "lower nose" regulations for this season but whether or not they'll get away with that is another matter.

Vettel is half a second clear. I don't know how much we can draw from it yet but he's certainly not slow! Perez only 6th so far and 1 second back. Also, Chilton is half a second behind the Caterham of Pic ahead.

[AndyL]

Possibly a bit of a reliability concern for Mercedes again, they were stuck in the pits for quite a while. Anyone heard what the problem was? Looks like Rosberg is back out on track again now for the last couple of hours.

[Donney]

I have to say I like the new Williams... :mark:

[52Paddy]

BBC Sport - Williams and Caterham exhaust designs deemed 'illegal' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21508634)

Some floor/exhaust issues surrounding Caterham and Williams at the moment.

[Tazio]

Timing: 19 february, tuesday. Circuit de Catalunya (Barcelona), Spain. (http://f1tests.info/2013.php?rev=on)

[truefan72]

BBC Sport - Williams and Caterham exhaust designs deemed 'illegal' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21508634)

Some floor/exhaust issues surrounding Caterham and Williams at the moment.

I'll wait to hear the official word from the FIA since we all know that Charlie Whiting's words, comments, and statements usually carry no weight whatsoever.

[steveaki13]

I thought some one had tipexed out the nose when I saw the photo.

But the nose really is that short. Wow.

Illegal or Genious. Who can say.

[TheFamousEccles]

I think it looks firetrucking awesome. They should stencil some shark teeth - or better still, the Predators jaws - onto the nose and wing. That would be cool as.

(Have just consumed two short black espressos and my inner bogan has started pinging off the walls) :vader:

[TheFamousEccles]

Good article, it had a succinct description of the Coanda exhaust effect, which is good for those who don't follow F1 closely, not many writers bother with this.

[Tazio]

:s ailor: Kimizzle :s mash: :rotflmao:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAm1be_tPUY

[RS]

I like Kimi but I think the media and Kimi himself are acting up to his reputation now.

[MAX_THRUST]

stupid question

[truefan72]

well the mercedes seems to be going reasonably well this morning and of course yesterday. Encouraging that hamilton's time was set on hards and at the beginning of an 8 lap run.
I hope this 2013 car will be more contender than pretender, only time will tell

[henners88]

Well I think Kimi gave that question the contempt it deserved. It might be the type of silly question you can ask a footballer, but not an F1 driver working hard to motivate himself for the season. The interviewer was obviously flown straight from the touchline at the Emirates last night and wasn't briefed on the sport he was supposed to be covering there in Barcelona. Quality broadcasting lol.

[RS]

Watching the Sky testing report tonight I see that Lewis has debuted the 2013 evolution of his stupid faux-American accent...

[henners88]

If it makes him go faster I couldn't care less.

[truefan72]

good to see Sutil back and behind the wheel of an f1 car
looks to me like he has not lost a step at all.
c'mon Force India, sign the guy already

[Bruce D]

Ok, I know that overall times don't mean a lot right now, but I've taken each days best laptimes and calculated them according to the best time of the day as a percentage, taken the averages over the days held so far and then used that to work out what the predicted laptime for a qualifying run in Australia would be. Here is what I have come up with so far after Day 2 of testing at Catalunya:

http://i48.tinypic.com/24ysdo8.jpg

The interesting thing is how the 2 team drivers of each team seem to tend to come in the same sort of order, with the notable exceptions of Red Bull and Ferrari. Make of this what you will, and I honestly didn't think it would show a lot myself until I did it and saw how close each teammate was to each other.

[Tazio]

Thanks for the good work Bruce. :up:
I think the pole time will be a little faster (weather permitting) than what you have on you have listed however. Last year pole was 124.9 on the soft compound. This season they are bringing super soft’s to Oz for the first time. Considering these are even softer than the super soft’s of last year I would be very surprised if pole is outside of the 1.24's but that is JMHO

[Tazio]

good to see Sutil back and behind the wheel of an f1 car
looks to me like he has not lost a step at all.
c'mon Force India, sign the guy already

http://richardsf1.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/image153.png

[truefan72]

Formula 1 - Button struggling to understand new McLaren - Yahoo! Eurosport UK (http://eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula-1-button-struggling-understand-new-mclaren-175624786.html)

button struggling to understand new mclaren, hmm where have we heard this before
perez isn't sounding the alarm bells and seems to have eased into the car fairly quickly

now who's looking like a team leader and who's not?

[airshifter]

Formula 1 - Button struggling to understand new McLaren - Yahoo! Eurosport UK (http://eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula-1-button-struggling-understand-new-mclaren-175624786.html)

button struggling to understand new mclaren, hmm where have we heard this before
perez isn't sounding the alarm bells and seems to have eased into the car fairly quickly

now who's looking like a team leader and who's not?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I think Sergio will beat Jenson this year. No hate towards Jenson at all, so please any supporters just take it for what it is... my opinion. ;)

[Tazio]

Hmmmm...Jenson is quoted only using the term “we” (the team) in the article:

Jenson Button has admitted that McLaren is struggling to understand its 2013 car and extract consistent performance from it.
Just sayin' :)

[truefan72]

Hmmmm...Jenson is quoted only using the term “we” (the team) in the article:

Just sayin' :)

fair point, but I think he is pretty much speaking for himself.

[Tazio]

...Or as the team leader :uhoh: ;)

[Bruce D]

Thanks for the good work Bruce. :up:
I think the pole time will be a little faster (weather permitting) than what you have on you have listed however. Last year pole was 124.9 on the soft compound. This season they are bringing super soft’s to Oz for the first time. Considering these are even softer than the super soft’s of last year I would be very surprised if pole is outside of the 1.24's but that is JMHO

The point was not to predict the laptime achieved, but the positions of the cars / teams relative to each other. Anyway, I've adjusted the base time that it's calculated from to make it more around what is predicted. This is the order after yesterday's Day 3 testing:

http://i47.tinypic.com/mmcrk2.jpg

[dj_bytedisaster]

Holy shoot, Sutil a second faster than diResta. If they sign anyone else, it'll be a complete travesty.

[Bruce D]

Haha, well it's all theory, if he did a few more days running we might get a better picture.

[AndyL]

button struggling to understand new mclaren, hmm where have we heard this before
perez isn't sounding the alarm bells and seems to have eased into the car fairly quickly

now who's looking like a team leader and who's not?

New boy Perez is hardly in a position to criticise the car in front of the press is he.

Just like the comments about getting the neck muscles conditioned to driving again after the winter. Alonso is happy to admit it's hard on the neck at the first couple of tests. But Sutil says it's no problem even after a year off. It doesn't mean Alonso has been slacking off in the gym compared to Sutil. It just means that one of those drivers is in a secure enough position to be open about things that are less than perfect, and one is not.

[MAX_THRUST]

If the car is table in the corners then Button will be quick, if its a handful the Sergio will be better. Button is gonna feel some pressure this year.

[MAX_THRUST]

With regards to times we have no idea what fuel rates any of these cars are running. Highly unlikely I know but the caterham could be running with full tanks and sand bagging, come Melbourne be the best.....lol. WE won't know till race day in Melbourne I think. Even Practise at Melbourne could be misleading. The Red Bulls might be fast and then stop on track with mechanical issues, McClaren might be fast and then struggle in the race. Kimi will be quick, Romain will crash at the first corner....oh I can't wait....

[MAX_THRUST]

AS for Sutil, How is he going to race in the US as he has a criminal conviction and in theory won't be allowed into the country????

[AndyL]

AS for Sutil, How is he going to race in the US as he has a criminal conviction and in theory won't be allowed into the country????

The US doesn't ban everyone who has a criminal conviction, it just means he doesn't qualify for the visa waiver programme. To go to the US he will have to apply for a visa, as a citizen of a country not in the visa waiver programme would.

[henners88]

It sounds to me like McLaren have got a good car like last year but not so great in Jenson's hands. He simply can't have another year where he can't find grip and balance yet his team-mate adapts and takes advantage. Sergio is struggling with tyre degradation too by admission so I hope its not another year where a good car is not maximised. Last year should have been their championship easily and unreliability let them down big time. Jenson struggled with pace and never found an answer, whereas Lewis got where he needed to be only for the car to fail far too many times. I think Sergio has a better chance of making his mark than many expected, but someone with Jenson's experience can't afford to let that happen.

[Knock-on]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I think Sergio will beat Jenson this year. No hate towards Jenson at all, so please any supporters just take it for what it is... my opinion. ;)

Very brave Air. Wanna bet on that ;)

[Zico]

Mercedes not capable of winning races yet

Lewis- "Of course that's our goal. But you've got to remember the car was more than a second off, sometimes two seconds off, last year and we've not caught two seconds up, and the new teams will have put another second on this year and we've not caught up three seconds. That's just a fact.

"Hopefully by the end of the year we will have gained three seconds but definitely not at the beginning."


Geez.. It doesn't look so great for Lewis this season when you read something like that. Finding 2-3 secs is a monumental task... and the rest of the teams wont be standing still on the development side either. :/

[steveaki13]

Doesnt always follow that they need to find 3 seconds. Mercedes will have to work hard to be at the front for sure, but I personally think they will be back to sort of 4-5th team in the season, rather than 8th-9th as they ended last season.

I also hope Mclaren can get a decent car together and that both Jenson & Sergio can get something out of it. It seems as though they are not right at the front according to testing times, but as we know you cant read to much into those.

However if the Mclaren is a bit of a dog, then it might well spell the beginning of the end of Jensons career, as a season losing out to Sergio in his first season at mclaren would surely lead to a Kimi v Coulthard situation in 2003. A downward slope that Mclaren would not want for 3 seasons.

I am so excited, just 3 weeks until Free Practice starts.

[RS]

Mercedes not capable of winning races yet

Lewis- "Of course that's our goal. But you've got to remember the car was more than a second off, sometimes two seconds off, last year and we've not caught two seconds up, and the new teams will have put another second on this year and we've not caught up three seconds. That's just a fact.

"Hopefully by the end of the year we will have gained three seconds but definitely not at the beginning."


Geez.. It doesn't look so great for Lewis this season when you read something like that. Finding 2-3 secs is a monumental task... and the rest of the teams wont be standing still on the development side either. :/

There's no way Mercedes are 2-3 seconds off. They did win a race last year in case Lewis can't remember that.. I think he is deliberately talking them down so he can look more wonderful if/when he gets a win for them. He's been doing that pretty much since he signed the contract.

[Knock-on]

^^^ what he says but I think it's the party line they're towing. I have been saying since Brasil that Mercedes is the Wildcard this year and will be in the mix. I'm perfectly prepared to have my nose rubbed in it if its a dog because I'm sure I will crow a bit if its as good as I'm lead to believe :)

[steveaki13]

I think they might win another race this season maybe 2 if they are lucky. So I think that would be a decent sort of season, that can be taken as progress

[dj_bytedisaster]

AS for Sutil, How is he going to race in the US as he has a criminal conviction and in theory won't be allowed into the country????

He is allowed to travel to all countries. That has been confirmed in November. He aint no terrorist, y'know...

[Tazio]

Lewis is just continuing to play down expectations. I would not take this at face value.

[AndyL]

I also feel there is an element of playing down expectations. I know testing times are hardly conclusive, especially with a whole test still to go, but my impression from looking at Mercedes' times on their long runs is that they have been quite respectable next to other teams' long runs. Certainly not 1-2 seconds a lap off.

[Duncan]

Yeah, Lewis does seem to be downplaying the performance of the Mercedes just a bit, but not by all that much. Just looking back quickly at fastest lap times from last season, the fastest time from a Mercedes seems to consistently be about a second or so behind the fastest time in each race. Interestingly, Nico's fastest lap was also almost exactly a second behind the fastest lap time set in China, where he won:

[tried to post a link here, but the system won't let me because I don't have enough posts yet. But if you go to the f1 site, all of the timings are available under results->season]


It's going to be a great season. Can't wait for Australia... :bounce:

[truefan72]

I also feel there is an element of playing down expectations. I know testing times are hardly conclusive, especially with a whole test still to go, but my impression from looking at Mercedes' times on their long runs is that they have been quite respectable next to other teams' long runs. Certainly not 1-2 seconds a lap off.

yep I too think that Hamilton is playing down expectations
If you were to give him a truth serum, I'm sure he will secretly tell you that he is pleasantly surprised, if not ecstatic by its pace...so far

As is always the case with Mercedes (and even brawn), it is what happens mid-season and going forward from there. If they can keep up with RBR, Ferrari, McLaren, and even Lotus. Sauber is also looking good out of the gates as well so it will be interesting to see. But I think their best bet is to score as many points early as possible.

[TheFamousEccles]

Regarding Sutil.

Glassing people in the neck is a demonstration of the man's quality, IMO, and he should not be allowed to compete in F1. But he is a professional sportsman and as such will be absolved of all criminality so long as he is good for the show. I know that this is not exclusive to F1, but it don't make it right.

Self-absorbed, violent socio-paths with an over arching sense of entitlement are getting out of hand. Armstrong and Pistorius are just two who leap to mind - Sutil's only "out" is that he is a relatively obscure player known mainly to people like us, and as such it will be carry on regardless should Force India decide they want him.

[Tazio]

Give the guy a freakin' ride before he turns into the illegitimate son of.....Mike and Stallone. :p :


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QCLU4oSz9xg/TvZ2vtKATXI/AAAAAAAAQY4/JOdeQ2qUtck/s640/sylvester-stallone-fur-leather-gloves.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/aiceman/217091-2.jpg
http://thepitwalk.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/f1-2010-ita-xp-0025.jpg?w=480&h=720

[truefan72]

Regarding Sutil.

Glassing people in the neck is a demonstration of the man's quality, IMO, and he should not be allowed to compete in F1. But he is a professional sportsman and as such will be absolved of all criminality so long as he is good for the show. I know that this is not exclusive to F1, but it don't make it right.

Self-absorbed, violent socio-paths with an over arching sense of entitlement are getting out of hand. Armstrong and Pistorius are just two who leap to mind - Sutil's only "out" is that he is a relatively obscure player known mainly to people like us, and as such it will be carry on regardless should Force India decide they want him.

completely blowing this way over the top
if sutil weren't famous, this entire "singular" incident would have been chalked up to a typical spat at a nightclub between parties about some girl. Yes it ended with some regrettable injuries, and probably even a bigger amount of bruised egos, resulting in a surprise lawsuit that Force India did not feel warranted them dismissing him summarily from the team. He went on to drive the rest (majority) of the season, without displaying those nonsensical traits you attribute to him. Labeling him a sociopath over this "singular" event is a bit much imo, especially since the injuries by all accounts were incurred accidentally during the fracas.
I'm not absolving Sutil for his part in the incident, I am, however, dismissing all this ridiculous talk of criminality, sociopathic tendencies, or any other completely overblown rhetoric regarding this matter.
Jenson Button allegedly had to be separated from Richard Branson over his woman before things escalated at some after party. I guess in your book he is a violent sociopath too. :rolleyes:

[truefan72]

Give the guy a freakin' ride before he turns into the illegitimate son of.....Mike and Stallone. :p :


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QCLU4oSz9xg/TvZ2vtKATXI/AAAAAAAAQY4/JOdeQ2qUtck/s640/sylvester-stallone-fur-leather-gloves.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/aiceman/217091-2.jpg
http://thepitwalk.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/f1-2010-ita-xp-0025.jpg?w=480&h=720

lol

that fur look is never right

Great stuff, did you run them in or anything, or just stick em on the track? Either way, please add a couple SIMX06 I think it is, with the double pinion shaft to my present order, will call you later today on that.

[steveaki13]

Great stuff, did you run them in or anything, or just stick em on the track? Either way, please add a couple SIMX06 I think it is, with the double pinion shaft to my present order, will call you later today on that.

:arrows: :bigcry:

[EuroTroll]

Great stuff, did you run them in or anything, or just stick em on the track? Either way, please add a couple SIMX06 I think it is, with the double pinion shaft to my present order, will call you later today on that.

My apologies, the bear hid the nuts, or did the wolf hide the carrots? Either way, please go to GF7 immediately to collect your grapes. And destroy this message upon receipt.

[steveaki13]

what idea is no I have on going?

back testing to anyway

[keysersoze]

Force India decision:

di Resta's best lap at Barcelona: 1:23.987
Sutil's best lap at Barcelona: 1:22.877
Bianchi, in the 1:25s, didn't have a proper shot for a quick lap in drying conditions.

Of course, don't know what tire Paul and Adrian were on, or what program. It seems as if they were on different tires. But if the team are trying to evaluate drivers it would make sense that they would try to limit the variables.

[wedge]

I also feel there is an element of playing down expectations. I know testing times are hardly conclusive, especially with a whole test still to go, but my impression from looking at Mercedes' times on their long runs is that they have been quite respectable next to other teams' long runs. Certainly not 1-2 seconds a lap off.

From the naked eye I agree with Hamilton's assessment. Even with their new coanda exhaust the car slides around, 'squirmy' and near enough drifting at the medium-high speed corners. Saying that Nico apparently did managed consistent lap times.

Barcelona has been nice - better that the UK! but still regarded as too cool for the tyres/tyres not optimised. Tyre graining* is really atrocious. You really notice it from the grandstands - dark bands that become thicker and more prominent on the tyre.

Next tests are next weekend. Good excuse for weekend break and recommend it to anyone. Circuit de Catalunya is easily accessible by public transport and a half hour walk by a motorway.

*tyres sliding, bits of rubber stick on the tyre surface instead of falling off as marbles.

[wedge]

Well I think Kimi gave that question the contempt it deserved. It might be the type of silly question you can ask a footballer, but not an F1 driver working hard to motivate himself for the season. The interviewer was obviously flown straight from the touchline at the Emirates last night and wasn't briefed on the sport he was supposed to be covering there in Barcelona. Quality broadcasting lol.

Seems like another excuse to bash Sky.

Valid question IMO. Due to his nature Kimi has been often questioned of his motivation.

Love Kimi's response. I can see his POV: would I be standing here if I wasn't hungry?

[steveaki13]

Seems like another excuse to bash Sky.



Has Henners got an issue with Sky. :eek: ;)

[Zico]

Great stuff, did you run them in or anything, or just stick em on the track? Either way, please add a couple SIMX06 I think it is, with the double pinion shaft to my present order, will call you later today on that.


IMX06, the V12? Naw, I didnae run them in. I just fitted them tae Tams motorand he's just joined the track btw...

Awe naw!... Anonni's on anaw noo!

[Duncan]

Next tests are next weekend. Good excuse for weekend break and recommend it to anyone. Circuit de Catalunya is easily accessible by public transport and a half hour walk by a motorway.

Seconded. I made it out there just for an afternoon last year because I happened to have a coincident business trip to Barcelona, and it was awesome. Only a few Euros to get in, very few people in the stands and you could just walk around and stand wherever.

[TheFamousEccles]

No, sorry Truefan. Letting this slide is tacit acknowledgement that it's okay for a sportsperson to act like a prick because all will be forgiven eventually. He was charged with assault occasioning grievous bodily harm, convicted and given a Suspended sentence and a fine. Now, not even two years on, and he is being considered for a prime drive in the pinnacle of motorsport.

It's okay Adrian, you can glass whoever you like - do the time (a slap on the wrist - you or I would have done real time, not suspended) and just as long as you can drive a car real fast you're welcome back. You gotta be fast, mind...

The world is full of highly paid sports types who think they can get away with things, and generally they can because society holds them to a different set of accountabilities to the rest of us. In my country alone football players (AFL and Rugby) are continuously starting fights or raping minors (not to mention betting and tanking) and getting away with it because they are what they are.

Sport of all types is a pastime - a game - and in the grand scheme of things means nothing, and contributes nothing. Aside from being a money-go-round. It is however (IMO) an essential part of the human condition to compete and games are the best way of doing this. The participants are still humans, they still put their pants on one leg at a time like everyone else, so therefore should be expected to behave in an acceptable fashion. Glassing someone is not acceptable. It makes an awful Fecking mess and is often hard to fix.

Anyway, I am sure we can agree to disagree - on with the show, eh?

[henners88]

Has Henners got an issue with Sky. :eek: ;)

No he means kimi. ;)

[52Paddy]

No, sorry Truefan. Letting this slide is tacit acknowledgement that it's okay for a sportsperson to act like a prick because all will be forgiven eventually. He was charged with assault occasioning grievous bodily harm, convicted and given a Suspended sentence and a fine. Now, not even two years on, and he is being considered for a prime drive in the pinnacle of motorsport.

It's okay Adrian, you can glass whoever you like - do the time (a slap on the wrist - you or I would have done real time, not suspended) and just as long as you can drive a car real fast you're welcome back. You gotta be fast, mind...

The world is full of highly paid sports types who think they can get away with things, and generally they can because society holds them to a different set of accountabilities to the rest of us. In my country alone football players (AFL and Rugby) are continuously starting fights or raping minors (not to mention betting and tanking) and getting away with it because they are what they are.

Sport of all types is a pastime - a game - and in the grand scheme of things means nothing, and contributes nothing. Aside from being a money-go-round. It is however (IMO) an essential part of the human condition to compete and games are the best way of doing this. The participants are still humans, they still put their pants on one leg at a time like everyone else, so therefore should be expected to behave in an acceptable fashion. Glassing someone is not acceptable. It makes an awful Fecking mess and is often hard to fix.

Anyway, I am sure we can agree to disagree - on with the show, eh?

GBH convictions don't immediately constitute prison sentences in my country, and that goes for citizens too - for what it's worth. Just because he made a mistake on a drunken night out, doesn't mean he should be thrown out of the F1 fraternity for good. "Strike one and you're out" is a bit of a harsh application, in my opinion. If he was as big a liability as some make him out to be, then teams wouldn't want him. They risk him damaging their reputation by name alone, not to mention the possibility of getting into further trouble. I don't expect Sutil to cause any more harm and, if he's good, then I'm all for having him back. Especially over Narain or more rookies.

But, yes, on with the show.

[henners88]

It was also made clear at trial that Sutil didn't deliberately stab his victim in the assault and it was most likely a scuffle that went too far accidentally. I'm glad he back testing and recovers his career.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Meanwhile in the Marussia garage...

M: Luiz, Y U NO pay the money you promised?
L: Uh, there is beaurocratic problems...
M: GTFO! What do you think we hired you for? If we wanted talent, we would have kept Glock. Get Out!

Epic justice at it's best...

[A FONDO]

Glock's only talent is to let being overtaken and ruin the whole championship


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYE8WvPnyTI

[dj_bytedisaster]

I smell a bumhurt Massa fan ;) You do know that he tried limping home on the wrong tires, do you? Why is it that Ferrari fanboys are the biggest crybabies when something doesn't go their way?

[rjbetty]

Glock's only talent is to let being overtaken and ruin the whole championship


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYE8WvPnyTI

May I kindly say that I am sick of hearing this trash, as I believe it is. (don't take it personally though)

Hamilton won. Massa didn't.

Glock was no slower than Trulli in 8th. Come to think of it, so what if he did let him through?


If you are really interested in dodgy possible backhander things from 2008, what about Hamilton being disqualified at Spa?
Even better, what about Bourdais being penalised in Japan, which helped Massa?

[Donney]

Wow people, some of you really have a strong memory when it comes to poor old whoever...

[henners88]

Had Glock been on the right tyres for the conditions he would have been further down the field after the pitstop and not been a factor. He didn't pit so was on the wrong tyres and was overtaken by cars on the right tyres. It's as simple as that. The right driver won the championship that year and no amount of moaning will change that. I was gutted Hamilton didn't win the previous year but in the end Kimi did enough and rightly won through hard work all season long.

[rjbetty]

Had Glock been on the right tyres for the conditions he would have been further down the field after the pitstop and not been a factor. He didn't pit so was on the wrong tyres and was overtaken by cars on the right tyres. It's as simple as that. The right driver won the championship that year and no amount of moaning will change that. I was gutted Hamilton didn't win the previous year but in the end Kimi did enough and rightly won through hard work all season long.

That is a breath of fresh air and makes a level of sense that spensonlizids* can only dream of.

*The spammer/advertiser who's been terrorising the forums lately.

[steveaki13]

That is a breath of fresh air and makes a level of sense that spensonlizids* can only dream of.

*The spammer/advertiser who's been terrorising the forums lately.

Agree.

Although I think he has finally been removed.

[Robinho]

I miss him already

Sent from the moon using a shoe

[EuroTroll]

I miss him already

So do I. :( I think we had the makings of a beautiful friendship. :love: Now, I'm lonely. :(

:p

[N4D13]

Here's a question for those of you who are more knowledgeable than me - which might as well be everyone else in this forum. :p Exactly how useful are the tests if it's raining or there's cold/bad weather like what we're having now at Barcelona? I don't think it'll be that cold in Melbourne or Malaysia.

[Zico]

So do I. :( I think we had the makings of a beautiful friendship. :love: Now, I'm lonely. :(

:p

I think he's back already as James103, see- http://www.motorsportforums.com/simulations/157212-assetto-corsa.html :D

[EuroTroll]

I think he's back already as James103, see- http://www.motorsportforums.com/simulations/157212-assetto-corsa.html :D

Yay! Where would we be without spammers? :D

Well, we would be here, I suppose, but not having as much fun. :bandit:

[airshifter]

So do I. :( I think we had the makings of a beautiful friendship. :love: Now, I'm lonely. :(

:p

We'll find you another to fill the void ET. You can always talk to me until we do, just don't cross the line into bromance level!

[airshifter]

Here's a question for those of you who are more knowledgeable than me - which might as well be everyone else in this forum. :p Exactly how useful are the tests if it's raining or there's cold/bad weather like what we're having now at Barcelona? I don't think it'll be that cold in Melbourne or Malaysia.

I would think they still find great value in the data obtained in poor weather conditions. It might not help them much until they have to race under similar conditions, but it would still be valuable information to have. As an example, wet conditions create less mechanical grip from the tires, and it might help them evaluate how effective changes in wings and other aerodynamic devices are. As it starts to dry and the tires come back, they might also find the point at which aero drag starts to hinder them the most when running high downforce.

Engine mapping finds might be similar in changing conditions, where they could help find the best engine maps for such things.

With F1 cars being so influenced by legal setup changes, I would think it would be rare to have weather so bad that they have nothing at all to gain in forms of data.

[AndyL]

I would think they still find great value in the data obtained in poor weather conditions. It might not help them much until they have to race under similar conditions, but it would still be valuable information to have. As an example, wet conditions create less mechanical grip from the tires, and it might help them evaluate how effective changes in wings and other aerodynamic devices are. As it starts to dry and the tires come back, they might also find the point at which aero drag starts to hinder them the most when running high downforce.

A specific example: according to Ted Kravtiz, Lotus reckon their rear wing configuration didn't work properly in the rain last year so they were taking the opportunity of the bad weather to test that.

Also pretty valuable for the rookie drivers to get some experience with the wet tyres I would think.

[steveaki13]

This.

Its key for new drivers in F1 to get some experience obviously. I also think season the testing will be even more vital as the new engines could well be a bit troublesome.

[Joey Zyla]

I'm not sure if this has already been posted, but f1tests.info is a good website for live timing. :)

[Joey Zyla]

I can't seem to edit my post. :confused:

But now that I have made more than fifteen posts, here is the actual link: Timing: 2 march, saturday. Circuit de Catalunya (Barcelona), Spain. (http://f1tests.info/2013.php?rev=on) ;)

[rjbetty]

I can't seem to edit my post. :confused:


I think that's cos you can only edit for 30 minutes after you posted.

[wedge]

Merc has gone from zero to hero. There are massive updates. Rear bodywork revised but still looks like an elephant compared to rivals. Gary Anderson reckons they are possible WDC contenders

BBC Sport - F1 testing: Mercedes' Lewis Hamilton can win title - Gary Anderson (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula-one/21643049)

[Zico]

Merc has gone from zero to hero. There are massive updates. Rear bodywork revised but still looks like an elephant compared to rivals. Gary Anderson reckons they are possible WDC contenders

BBC Sport - F1 testing: Mercedes' Lewis Hamilton can win title - Gary Anderson (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula-one/21643049)

Anyone else think his 'WDC contender' comments are a bit premature? It's obviously not a complete dog of a car as it is a good time.... but It's not like we saw the best of the rest.

I still reckon Red Bull are gonna be the ones to beat.

[gloomyDAY]

As a former fan of Lewis Hamilton, I'm excited for him! I really hope that Mercedes discipline his butt when he's acting out, treat him like an adult, and there are no more girly Twitter spats. Here's to Mercedes and a competitive season!

[Zico]

I really hope that Mercedes discipline his butt when he's acting out, treat him like an adult, and there are no more girly Twitter spats.

Yes, It was a brave move to make. I know I had major reservations about him joining Mercedes but maybe that is just what he needed. I'm sure Mercedes will kick him in the nuts if he plays up and offer him a much better opportunity to mature... after possibly being treated with kid gloves for too long at McLaren?

Here's hoping the Merc is quick and reliable enough to allow him to have a decent crack at the WDC this year.

[rjbetty]

Gary Anderson is now saying Lewis can challenge for the title this year! :eek:

BBC Sport - F1 testing: Mercedes' Lewis Hamilton can win title - Gary Anderson (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula-one/21643049)

:)

I wonder if I should change my pickems as I don't have either Mercedes in the top 10!

[jens]

Well, looking at the whole we have to take some aspects into account. Remember, last year Mercedes was fast in the beginning of the season and in cold conditions as well. They won in China. And these are the conditions we have had tests in. But in-season development and hot conditions created problems for them...

Overall, it looks like five top teams are at least pretty close to each other. So should be an exciting start to the season, because even in this tight group of field someone has to win and someone has to be 10th. :)

[rjbetty]

Yeah, it looks like the top 10 are going to be the closest in history at the start of the season, so the champions will be the ones who can develop. It could be possible that McLaren are the ones to play the long game well though others may take the early headlines.

[keysersoze]

For the week in Barcelona:

Marussia and Caterham: quicker than Toro Rosso, only .6 off of Red Bull's best lap, .8 from Williams.

I realize different programs, tires, and all, plus improved weather on the last day helped. But I do hope they are both closing the gap. Marussia in particular should be relieved that they were able to show up on time and thereby make use of proper testing.

[keysersoze]

Merc has gone from zero to hero. There are massive updates. Rear bodywork revised but still looks like an elephant compared to rivals. Gary Anderson reckons they are possible WDC contenders

BBC Sport - F1 testing: Mercedes' Lewis Hamilton can win title - Gary Anderson (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula-one/21643049)

Who was that forum member who, in January, predicted Lewis could win a race, bag 7-8 podiums, and qualify 8-9 times on the front two rows?

I believe it was Keysersoze. :p :

[rjbetty]

For the week in Barcelona:

Marussia and Caterham: quicker than Toro Rosso, only .6 off of Red Bull's best lap, .8 from Williams.

I realize different programs, tires, and all, plus improved weather on the last day helped. But I do hope they are both closing the gap. Marussia in particular should be relieved that they were able to show up on time and thereby make use of proper testing.

But Kovalainen was also setting 6th-7th fastest times in 2011 and 2012 pre-season testing...

[rjbetty]

Who was that forum member who, in January, predicted Lewis could win a race, bag 7-8 podiums, and qualify 8-9 times on the front two rows?

I believe it was Keysersoze. :p :

Yeah that was well against what I was expecting. But it's looking like it could now happen this way after all!

[Bruce D]

Ok after the final day of testing, my final predictions system results. Note again, this doesn't reflect actual lap time, but rather the positions and gaps between everyone taken as a average over all the testing, excluding wet days.

http://i47.tinypic.com/358dnwy.jpg

[TheFamousEccles]

Bruce, that's an interesting list! Not sure I agree with it all, but I am going to be interested to compare against actual results.

(this isn't criticism, just an opinion) :vader:

[rjbetty]

Bruce, that's an interesting list! Not sure I agree with it all, but I am going to be interested to compare against actual results.

(this isn't criticism, just an opinion) :vader:

I agree. It's also very well presented. But that doesn't surprise me seeing the WRC 2 league results from last year. :)

[Bruce D]

Bruce, that's an interesting list! Not sure I agree with it all, but I am going to be interested to compare against actual results.

(this isn't criticism, just an opinion) :vader:

Well it's based on laptimes per day statistically so I'm sure it wouldn't be 100% correct, just theory, so I'm not offended. ;) But it will be interesting to see how it ties up as a possible system for future off-season guestimation.


I agree. It's also very well presented. But that doesn't surprise me seeing the WRC 2 league results from last year. :)

This is the circuit racing version of the rally software I used for that league, same developers. ;)

[AndyL]

Well it's based on laptimes per day statistically so I'm sure it wouldn't be 100% correct, just theory, so I'm not offended. ;) But it will be interesting to see how it ties up as a possible system for future off-season guestimation.

The ordering at least looks very plausible in a lot of respects, so that suggests there is something in the numbers.

[Joey Zyla]

Not bad, although I expect the actual results to be quite a bit different from that. ;)

[Zico]

Thanks Bruce, very interesting, unfortunately it doesn't take the track rubbering in into account which should throw a skew in it.

Reliability aside and over race distance, I suspect Red Bull to be strongest, followed by Ferrari, then Mercedes and Lotus quite close together... then McLaren behind them, (Which ties in with your list quite nicely except for Red Bull). However, Australia can produce results that dont reflect well on the teams outright pace over the course of the season, while a dry Sepangs different sectors should provide a slightly better indication of who will be fast where... IF the teams all manage tyre deg/heat well there.

[airshifter]

Who was that forum member who, in January, predicted Lewis could win a race, bag 7-8 podiums, and qualify 8-9 times on the front two rows?

I believe it was Keysersoze. :p :

Though I can appreciate your enthusiasm, be careful about what you say as it could come back to bite you later in the season! I'd like to see Mercedes do well also, as I think Lewis is going to be unhappy if it ends up a mid field car at best.

[EuroTroll]

Thanks Bruce, very interesting, unfortunately it doesn't take the track rubbering in into account which should throw a skew in it.

Reliability aside and over race distance, I suspect Red Bull to be strongest, followed by Ferrari, then Mercedes and Lotus quite close together... then McLaren behind them, (Which ties in with your list quite nicely except for Red Bull). However, Australia can produce results that dont reflect well on the teams outright pace over the course of the season, while a dry Sepangs different sectors should provide a slightly better indication of who will be fast where... IF the teams all manage tyre deg/heat well there.

Yay! Zico's 2000-th! :beer: And you've been around since Aug 2005, you lazy bugger? :D Come on now, the next 2000 should come a lot quicker! ;)

[Zico]

^ I hadn't even noticed! :D

Cheers... :beer: and here's to the next two thousand. ;)

[keysersoze]

Though I can appreciate your enthusiasm, be careful about what you say as it could come back to bite you later in the season! I'd like to see Mercedes do well also, as I think Lewis is going to be unhappy if it ends up a mid field car at best.

Yeah, I realize I set myself up for some crow come November, but I'm pretty confident. As we all know, Lewis brings about 6 tenths to any team. :D

[Tazio]

The ordering at least looks very plausible in a lot of respects, so that suggests there is something in the numbers.Yes, this seems to be a very good formula for relative comparisons of what the pilots and teams were willing to reveal :up:
I think it is worth noting that Britney's time was 1.6 seconds faster than Lewis's impressive though disallowed pole lap of last year’s Spanish GP. It is only fair to mention that NR accomplished this while opening his DRS outside the DRS zone which is not allowed in quali this season :bulb:

[gloomyDAY]

Ok after the final day of testing, my final predictions system results. Note again, this doesn't reflect actual lap time, but rather the positions and gaps between everyone taken as a average over all the testing, excluding wet days.Is there any way you can rig the numbers so Alonso isn't at the top? Thanks. :p

[airshifter]

Yeah, I realize I set myself up for some crow come November, but I'm pretty confident. As we all know, Lewis brings about 6 tenths to any team. :D

Cough, cough... sure, just like Fernando does! The problem is that they don't always bring those 6 tenths when it matters. :) Hopefully they will have a good car and Lewis will settle down and only race hard when needed. If that happens it could be a great combination for both of them.

[Bruce D]

Not to be out-done, I took Gary Anderson's predictions here BBC Sport - Gary Anderson column: Mercedes finish with a flourish (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21660055) and calculated them into my formula to give this list:

http://i48.tinypic.com/2m4972x.jpg

Should be interesting to see who is closer in Melbourne. ;)

[AndyL]

On Sky they reckoned that the Red Bull was capable of a 1:19.3 qualifying lap around Barcelona, while Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes and Lotus were all capable of a 1:19.5. No idea how they worked that out. Odds are someone's prediction will be more or less right!

I'm not getting the impression that McLaren are as "up there" as Gary Anderson thinks. They have one of the most changed cars out of the top teams so I doubt they are going to get the full potential out of it straight away.

[N4D13]

On Sky they reckoned that the Red Bull was capable of a 1:19.3 qualifying lap around Barcelona, while Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes and Lotus were all capable of a 1:19.5. No idea how they worked that out. Odds are someone's prediction will be more or less right
Well, no one will remember what they said by the time they start racing in Barcelona, so who cares? That's the point of Sky's prediction - they won't be bringing that up any more.

[Zico]

We should have far higher temps at Melbourne to those experienced in testing, so testing pace may well point to very little until the teams don't have a full understanding of the new tyre degradation characteristics.
If it proves to be as gentle on its tyres as last year, I wont be at all surprised if we see a Lotus driver on top of the podium in Oz... Can I change my pickems? :)


I can see this being a major talking point once again... just how much more fragile are the Pirellis likely to be this year?

[dj_bytedisaster]

If the impressions from the testing are anthing to go by, they're gonna be even more ridiculous comedy tires than last year. Seriously, whyt's the point in having a tire manufacturer, who makes the tires deliberately ****? Bring back Goodyear, Michelin and Bridgestone and let's have a tire war again. Way more entertaining...

[airshifter]

If the impressions from the testing are anthing to go by, they're gonna be even more ridiculous comedy tires than last year. Seriously, whyt's the point in having a tire manufacturer, who makes the tires deliberately ****? Bring back Goodyear, Michelin and Bridgestone and let's have a tire war again. Way more entertaining...

I can agree that this years tires don't look to be very durable, and the lack of good tires is probably going to create more "strategy" racing which I personally don't like in F1.

But at the same time in the past it was shown that Pirelli were making the tires that F1 wanted, and I don't think they lack the ability to make better tires. Certainly it's hard for even a big company to make tires that suit all cars, so they are starting with a compromise of sorts. At the same time when we had more than one manufacturer for tires many thought that certain tires were quite biased towards a specific team.

There has to be a better solution than crappy tires that force more pit stops, but for me personally allowing too many tire companies in the game might skew biases and results even further.

[AndyL]

But at the same time in the past it was shown that Pirelli were making the tires that F1 wanted, and I don't think they lack the ability to make better tires.

Yes quite, they are doing what they've been asked to do. Blaming Pirelli for making rubbish tyres is a bit like blaming Renault for the fact their engines only make 700 horsepower and not 1200 like they used to.

It's worth noting that the tyres that were being used to run 1-stop races at the end of last season were exactly the same as the "comedy tyres" that started the season. As the teams get better at preserving the tyres, then if F1's management want races with more than one stop (and it appears they do) then the tyres have to be made to degrade faster. No doubt by the end of this year we'll be back to 1-stop races.

[steveaki13]

It always amazes me how much the teams learn over a season. After having to make 3 or 4 stops at the beginning of the season, they can only be making 1 by the end.

[Garry Walker]

If the impressions from the testing are anthing to go by, they're gonna be even more ridiculous comedy tires than last year. Seriously, whyt's the point in having a tire manufacturer, who makes the tires deliberately ****? Bring back Goodyear, Michelin and Bridgestone and let's have a tire war again. Way more entertaining...

Very surprisingly what you said is a good point but you are directing your anger at the wrong place. The reason Pirelli makes these tyres is because that is what F1 teams ask of them. This is all to put on a show and so many fans just love it when the best drivers in the world have to race with tyres that are dead after 4 laps. I remember arguing on that topic last year with some less intelligent posters on here who thought it was so entertaining when drivers had to pace themselves and drive with tyres that were dead after a few laps. Thats entertainment. And when one car is suddenly 4 seconds a lap slower than the other because of dead tyres, that is also entertainment, who cares if it happens 10 laps into a stint.

No proper race fan would of course want to see something like that, but TV ratings are determined more by those with IQ close to that of a donkey.

[rjbetty]

The tyres are the same for everybody. If somone's tyres wear out, it's up to them and the team to stop it from happening. It's a challenge, and it's the same challenge for everybody. I think it encourages intelligent driving too, which I don't think is a terrible thing.


In any case, I think F1 is better now than it was in 2002.

[Garry Walker]

The tyres are the same for everybody. If somone's tyres wear out, it's up to them and the team to stop it from happening. It's a challenge, and it's the same challenge for everybody. I think it encourages intelligent driving too, which I don't think is a terrible thing.

I prefer to see the best drivers in the world race their cars to the very limit of the car and their own ability, not try to follow a delta time to save tyres. That is not F1.

[steveaki13]

I prefer to see the best drivers in the world race their cars to the very limit of the car and their own ability, not try to follow a delta time to save tyres. That is not F1.

I agree Gary.

Although it jumbles up the order, for me it is in the same bracket as DRS.

I too ultimately would prefer to see an end to the rule saying you must use both tyre types and just give the drivers and teams hard and soft tyres and let them loose to push 100% all race long.

It was the same in 2005 when you had to make tyres last the race. It was interesting but ultimately to the F1 should be.

[wmcot]

No proper race fan would of course want to see something like that, but TV ratings are determined more by those with IQ close to that of a donkey.

That's a bit rude to donkeys, isn't it?

[AndyL]

I too ultimately would prefer to see an end to the rule saying you must use both tyre types and just give the drivers and teams hard and soft tyres and let them loose to push 100% all race long.

The "use both types of tyre" rule seems a bit unnecessary now doesn't it.

The only worry I would have with getting rid of it is that it might hand a bigger advantage to those able to save more of the preferred tyre from qualifying, resulting in more people choosing not to run in Q2 or Q3.

[steveaki13]

The "use both types of tyre" rule seems a bit unnecessary now doesn't it.

The only worry I would have with getting rid of it is that it might hand a bigger advantage to those able to save more of the preferred tyre from qualifying, resulting in more people choosing not to run in Q2 or Q3.

That is true.

The only way you could change that I suppose is to allow qualifying tyres seperate from Race Tyres.

[Zico]

I prefer to see the best drivers in the world race their cars to the very limit of the car and their own ability, not try to follow a delta time to save tyres. That is not F1.

Well said Garry, I couldn't agree more...

F1 should not be about endurance. Funny enough, the tyres wont be the only factor to follow a delta time for next year.. yep...fuel economy! Mercedes are on record as saying that fastest laps may not equate to the fastest race next year.... well tbh Merc, its actually already been like that for the last few years to some extent in case you haven't noticed ;) . What is the sport coming to... Diesel F1 cars next?

As 'Wayne' correctly points out on James Allens blog.. A glimpse into how F1 will change in 2014James Allen on F1 (http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/01/a-glimpse-in-to-how-f1-will-change-in-2014/)

"This is the world’s premiere motorsport formula right? Should we not expect to see these guys driving their cars on the limit as much as possible, that’s where their talent lies isn’t it? I love strategy and intrigue but F1 can and will go to far – these guys should be racing above all else.

I want to see the fastest drivers in the world driving the fastest cars in the world on the limit. I want tyre squeal, smoke, the risk of running wide without run-off areas larger and smoother than the deck of a Nimitz class aircraft carrier.

I want fire and brimstone, sweating brows and nervous moments of incredible tension. I want F1 drivers to be allowed to overtake without consulting an overbearing rule book, booking a slot on the track a week in advance, pressing a button and pulling alongside in a carefully choreographed move.

F1 should not be out to save the world, I don’t give a rat’s ass about the emissions of an F1 car especially they are totally overshadowed by the logistical costs of flying to empty circuits in parts of the world that care nothing for F1, purely for cash. Hypocritical does not even begin to describe it.

F1 will end up as an immaculately presented excercise in spin and PR, clean, sterile, contrived and false. I don’t want the motorsport version of American wrestling!

Dear God will someone listen! I do realise that the entire world revolves aorund money, and people will do anything to get more of it that they can possibly spend but F1 has history and heritage, F1 is a SPORT (or was depending on how far gone you think it already is).

The ****** FIA and BE need to just STOP. Take a breath, relax for a year and think on what F1 should be."


****** good post btw Wayne, get your ass over here. ;)



.... and BREATHE!!!!... rant over... whew! :D

[zako85]

F1: Analysis - New Red Bull Slowest On The Straight (http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-analysis-new-red-bull-slowest-on-the-straight/)

[wmcot]

F1: Analysis - New Red Bull Slowest On The Straight (http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-analysis-new-red-bull-slowest-on-the-straight/)

They were among the slowest on the straights last year, too - doesn't mean much unless they want to take up drag racing.

[EuroTroll]

They were among the slowest on the straights last year, too - doesn't mean much unless they want to take up drag racing.

Indeed, and with Marussia-Cosworth the fastest, I don't think it's an indication of anything other than how much wing the cars were running.

[dj_bytedisaster]

They were among the slowest on the straights last year, too - doesn't mean much unless they want to take up drag racing.

It isn't completely without importance. The RB's are comparatively 'slow', because they are optimized for lap times. That means they have a slight edge in the corners, but are somewhat more pedestrian on the straight. This is where Vettels typical style comes from. He has to drive the wheels off it in the first few laps to get out of the DRS zone, before Whiting enables it. If one of the other cars manage to stay within a second and is therefore able to DRS the crap out of him, he's effed, as Lewis has proven in Austin last year. The Red Bull is ruthlessly optimized for qualifying and starting at the pointy edge of the grid is a must. Mark has proven over and over again that if you have to start 3rd or 4th, you're going nowhere with that thing for lack of straight-line speed. That's why RB had to practically overhaul the gearbox settings, when VET had to start from the back in Singapore.

[airshifter]

Great points. The RB has often proven that with the right driver behind the wheel the straight line speed won't matter much. They can't overtake on the straights if you can gain a solid advantage before the straight.

[steveaki13]

Marussia to win at Monza then. :p :

Seriously though Red Bull have been slow in a straight line for years and it does them no real harm.