Giedo van der Garde gets 2nd Caterham seat

[Wasted Talent]

Van der Garde gets second Caterham seatJames Allen on F1 (http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/02/van-der-garde-gets-second-caterham-seat/)

WT

[truefan72]

well, Caterham has just taken a step back IMO
Petrov really should have retained his seat, but hopefully he is off to Marussia, even though that is still going backwards down the gird

but back to caterham, cheap is what comes to mind. On paper, right now they have the weakest driver line up in my opinion.
Some poor decisions being made over there.

[AndyL]

We all had such high hopes when the team first arrived didn't we. They had good drivers, people of substance running the team, and an approach that seemed to be putting them on course for midfield respectability in a few years. :(

[keysersoze]

I'm disappointed, to put it lightly, but we all knew what Caterham were up against. Pic joined Barwa Addax after Giedo had already been there for a season, and the Frenchman outpointed him despite getting DQ'd from a race. Pic had 3 poles and 2 wins to van der Garde's 1 pole and zero wins. But Giedo had a fair 2012 season and has already driven the Caterham a half-dozen times in FP1. Should be an interesting season for them.

[zako85]

Scandalous. Kovalainen and Petrov were both good drivers, and probably the best Caterham could hire right now. I am surprised they haven't kept at least one of them for the sake of continuity. I think Caterham will realize soon how hard it is to compete without an experienced driver in the lineup.

[Koz]

Caterham just went from having the best drivers outside the top 5 teams to the worst lineup on the grid. Shame.

[rjbetty]

Caterham just went from having the best drivers outside the top 5 teams to the worst lineup on the grid. Shame.

Hmmm I would say 2nd worst. It's still not as bad as Chilton/Razia, probably.

But yeah, I have also lost respect for Caterham. It's not even about the driver decision, as survival has to be ensured; but more about the way they treated Heikki, and the way that Tony Fernandes seems to have lost interest after losing the Lotus name. That's a shame cos I've gotten used to the Caterham name and now I like it. It's still the same team and still means something.

[steveaki13]

Hasn't Tony Fernandes cut his ties with Caterham already? Last year sometime announced he would have nothing more to do with the team. Could be wrong and probably am.

[lars75]

That is a little simple!

Giedo was leading the championship in the beginning of 2011 and was second in the standing up untill Monza (the last weekend) behind Grosjean. A drive through because off avoiding a coalition (how strange is that?) in the first chicane in the first race made that he had no chance off scoring any points in the 1st race at Monza and he finished at the end of the list. The second race he drove a very strong race but didn't manage to score any point either. This made his drop from second to fifth in the Championship standings! Also to blame on the insane actions of Bianchi that cost vd Garde some points during the season. With that points in his pocket he would still be second, even after a weekend like Monza.
He didn't win any races, that's true. But he was constantly one of the main drivers througout the year!

Your vision is not even near the truth and there is more that meets the eye!

[Natalie.S]

Nice :D
I like Giedo, pretty good driver in difficult circumstances
Hope he does well

[jens]

I am surprised that after such a long time of waiting van der Garde has finally made it into F1 as well. His sponsors have been patient enough, I have to say then. Well, more patient than the sponsors of other drivers, who have already dropped out of F1 without finding the necessary funding (Petrov among them).

But overall I don't expect the Dutchman to accomplish more than hanging around for 1-2 seasons at best. Before it is his turn to run out of money, when the sponsors get bored (read: they realize their driver has already peaked).

[lars75]

I am surprised that after such a long time of waiting van der Garde has finally made it into F1 as well. His sponsors have been patient enough, I have to say then. Well, more patient than the sponsors of other drivers, who have already dropped out of F1 without finding the necessary funding (Petrov among them).

But overall I don't expect the Dutchman to accomplish more than hanging around for 1-2 seasons at best. Before it is his turn to run out of money, when the sponsors get bored (read: they realize their driver has already peaked).

Well his Sponsor is his father in Law, his name is Marcel Boekhoorn. Do some Google and you will see that it's hard to believe he will run out off money fast ;)

Giedo is a solid driver and proven that in every championship he competed in, he could become a di Grassi, but he could also become a Webber or Irvine. Only time will tell!

[jens]

Well his Sponsor is his father in Law, his name is Marcel Boekhoorn. Do some Google and you will see that it's hard to believe he will run out off money fast ;)

Giedo is a solid driver and proven that in every championship he competed in, he could become a di Grassi, but he could also become a Webber or Irvine. Only time will tell!

I remember van der Garde hanging around already when Hamilton and Vettel were racing in feeder series. So it's almost like he has been racing forever.

I would be very surprised if a top team hires him like Webber or Irvine. Or does that mean the financial crisis will be so deep that the whole grid will be in need of paydrivers then. :)

[lars75]

What ages where Webber and Irvine before they made their debut at F1? What did they win in the feeder series before F1?

He drove with lesser materials in the same series and made quit an impression to become former Renault en Mercedes young driver by talent and not by budget.
The only season that he had the same material as Hamilton and Vettel it was an disapointment indead. His biggest achievement that year was pole position at the Masters of Formel3 at Zandvoort. Wit a faillure at the start and a strong race he became runner-up behind diGrassi if i'm wright.

In the GP2 his first year he made a good impression to. He was through out the year the better over Perez in their second season at GP2 with Barwa and a year later he was the top contender with Grosjean up untill Belgium in 2011, with leading the first few races untill Bianchi hit him several times. After that he was second in the standing up untill Monza. People that say that pic had the better of him in 2011 are not aware of the treu facts.

He ain't a Hamilton or Vettel, but he is surely capable of a nice career when everything is comming in place for him this once.

[jens]

What ages where Webber and Irvine before they made their debut at F1? What did they win in the feeder series before F1?

He drove with lesser materials in the same series and made quit an impression to become former Renault en Mercedes young driver by talent and not by budget.
The only season that he had the same material as Hamilton and Vettel it was an disapointment indead. His biggest achievement that year was pole position at the Masters of Formel3 at Zandvoort. Wit a faillure at the start and a strong race he became runner-up behind diGrassi if i'm wright.

In the GP2 his first year he made a good impression to. He was through out the year the better over Perez in their second season at GP2 with Barwa and a year later he was the top contender with Grosjean up untill Belgium in 2011, with leading the first few races untill Bianchi hit him several times. After that he was second in the standing up untill Monza. People that say that pic had the better of him in 2011 are not aware of the treu facts.

He ain't a Hamilton or Vettel, but he is surely capable of a nice career when everything is comming in place for him this once.

The age of entrance doesn't matter that much - drivers' skills matter. Webber is criticized for not winning in feeder categories, but his F3000 career was still pretty strong - two seasons and was 3rd and 2nd in those.

In GP2 van der Garde was in top teams in 2009-11, but didn't make much of an impression. From what I remember, Pérez beat him convincingly in 2010. People rate Pic higher, because he was significantly less experienced at the time.

I am sorry, but van der Garde hasn't even accomplished what Valsecchi has managed - finally win a GP2 title after hanging around forever. And Valsecchi is hardly someone you would expect to set the world alight in F1. Sure GvdG has some solid results, but he has had such a huge experience advantage over most of the field that it would be strange if he wasn't in Top5 with that.

He has had a solid career in feeder level, but F1 is a higher level. I don't expect drivers, who have spent a decade in feeder categories without standing out, to shine at that level.

In any case, I have significantly bigger hopes on the other Dutch driver Robin Frijns. He has been rising up the ranks really fast and been right at the front of the field immediately in anything - a sign of an adaptable driver and a potential future star. Let's see, what comes out of there.

[Natalie.S]

In any case, I have significantly bigger hopes on the other Dutch driver Robin Frijns. He has been rising up the ranks really fast and been right at the front of the field immediately in anything - a sign of an adaptable driver and a potential future star. Let's see, what comes out of there.
I agree that Frijns is probably the more talented driver.
But he lacks in the political dept. aka he has a big mouth that he shoots off frequently.

Giedo is more experienced at that and off course he has a billoinaire father in law ;)

[Koz]

Well his Sponsor is his father in Law, his name is Marcel Boekhoorn. Do some Google and you will see that it's hard to believe he will run out off money fast ;)


I wish I had a father in law like that!

[lars75]

The age of entrance doesn't matter that much - drivers' skills matter. Webber is criticized for not winning in feeder categories, but his F3000 career was still pretty strong - two seasons and was 3rd and 2nd in those.

In GP2 van der Garde was in top teams in 2009-11, but didn't make much of an impression. From what I remember, Pérez beat him convincingly in 2010. People rate Pic higher, because he was significantly less experienced at the time.

I am sorry, but van der Garde hasn't even accomplished what Valsecchi has managed - finally win a GP2 title after hanging around forever. And Valsecchi is hardly someone you would expect to set the world alight in F1. Sure GvdG has some solid results, but he has had such a huge experience advantage over most of the field that it would be strange if he wasn't in Top5 with that.

He has had a solid career in feeder level, but F1 is a higher level. I don't expect drivers, who have spent a decade in feeder categories without standing out, to shine at that level.

In any case, I have significantly bigger hopes on the other Dutch driver Robin Frijns. He has been rising up the ranks really fast and been right at the front of the field immediately in anything - a sign of an adaptable driver and a potential future star. Let's see, what comes out of there.

I don't say that vd Garde is the revelution in motorsport at all. i-Sport was not a top contender at GP2 in 2009, Giedo had 3 wins and a strong debut at GP2. But he had the upperhand over Perez in the GP2 in 2010, unfortunatly the standings would tell you otherwise. He got some penalty's over team mistakes and had some gearbox problems in crucial moments like Silverstone. The start off his 2010 season was weak, but he had a strong recovery and drove some awesome races like Belgium.
The 2011 season he was the top contender of Grosjean for the whole season, with leading the championship the first half of the season. Bianchi is to blame that he lost some very expensive points that made him lose the championship in the first place, but also cost him the points to stay second after a disapointing weekend at Monza.

Just looking at the standing doesn't tell the complete story about the potential of a driver!

When I loke at the feeder series I see some talented young drivers but they didn't win much so far!

Boys like Magnussen, Ericcson, Abt, Kvyat, Melker, da Costa, Bianchi, Bird, Colado and many more I believe wouldn't be a shame for F1.

Some people name Bianchi and Bird as tallented young drivers and can tell with dry eyes that vd Garde is not tallented enough. Winning is a good standard for talent, but it isn't the only standard I believe.

But the Dutch hopes are on Robin Frijns, de Vries and Verstappen for the future of F1.

[christophulus]

If I'm being cynical, I reckon Caterham are throwing all their weight into the 2014 car when the regs change. Therefore there's no point in paying a good driver to drive an average car for 2013, when they'd be better off getting as much money in as possible from a "pay" driver and trying to make a leap next year. The only gamble is whether they can nick 10th off Marussia again - but they've only got one contender for the position now rather than two last year.

[Koz]

If I'm being cynical, I reckon Caterham are throwing all their weight into the 2014 car when the regs change. Therefore there's no point in paying a good driver to drive an average car for 2013, when they'd be better off getting as much money in as possible from a "pay" driver and trying to make a leap next year. The only gamble is whether they can nick 10th off Marussia again - but they've only got one contender for the position now rather than two last year.

I hope you're right. But I think Fernandes lost interest, remember how he used to talk about being a top 5 team within 5 years... He expected to be competing with Sauber and FI - and his budget was up there according to various estimates. The team won't make it to next year as Caterham.

[Ranger]

What ages where Webber and Irvine before they made their debut at F1? What did they win in the feeder series before F1?

Webber was 25, Irvine was very nearly 28. Both had moderate success in feeder categories.

I'll pass judgement on Giedo, as Kobayashi had a pretty average pre-F1 record yet still made an impact.

Marussia could benefit financially. They are currently 10th overall and Caterham 11th, mostly because Marussia have a more-reliable car than Caterham do. Any penalty that the FIA imposes on Caterham this year could affect them further.

[steveaki13]

Marussia could benefit financially. They are currently 10th overall and Caterham 11th, mostly because Marussia have a more-reliable car than Caterham do. Any penalty that the FIA imposes on Caterham this year could affect them further.

Hey almost made some sense.

[AndyL]

Hey almost made some sense.

Because it's a copy of a post made on another forum a year ago:
HRT complains to FIA about Caterham - GTPlanet Forums (http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6939662#post6939662)

Can't we get rid of this joker now?

[teamleader]

Haha all the hate inhere because Giedo got the 2nd seat :D Dutch powaaa
I think we need to just wait before judging people. Give the poor guy a chance, maby he blow your minds away haha

[steveaki13]

Haha all the hate inhere because Giedo got the 2nd seat :D Dutch powaaa
I think we need to just wait before judging people. Give the poor guy a chance, maby he blow your minds away haha

I hope so.

I personally hope he and Caterham do really well.

You're right it is unfair to judge drivers before they at least have a couple of F1 drives.

People might argue that he didnt achieve much in lower formule, but who knows what will happen when the get into F1. Lets wat and see

[rjbetty]

I agree.

Really hoping all 4 bottom drivers can show well.

Do we think that van der Garde is a better bet than Christijan Albers? I think he could be and will be.

[steveaki13]

Interesting to compare him to Albers and for a bit of fun I thought I would have a look and see how well it was Albers done. To see what his career highlights were in F1. (Not great but for those interested some good moments for him)

2005
He started in Spain & Monaco 14th on the grid, due to problems for others and BARs exclusion

I recall in Canada he qualified 16th ahead of Friesacher & both Jordans. Then he finished 5th in the joke US GP.

The German GP he qualified a fine 16th only 3.2 seconds off pole compared to the Minardi average of 5 to 6. He finished 13th out of 18 finishers. Only 2 laps down and ahead of Trullis Toyota, Villeneuves Sauber, the two Jordans & Doornbos. That was a fantastic effort.

In Brazil 16th only 2.7 seconds off pole.
In the crazy 2005 Japanese GP with the damp conditions, he managed 13th on the grid out of 20.


2006 he had a slightly better car in the Midland, his strength was Qualifying but didnt manage a point in the races.

In Malaysia he made it to Q2 and started 15th of 22. Finished 12th of 15.
In Oz started 17th ahead of a Toro Rosso & BMW finished 11th of 12.


In Monaco started 16th and he finished 12th out of 17. Just 1 lap down and ahead of Speeds Toro Rosso, Villeneuve BMW, his team mate Monteiro, Sato & Trulli (who had issues)

In the US got into Q2 and was 14th on the grid. His best quali of the season. Ahead of his teammate, both Red Bulls, both Super Aguris, a Toro Rosso, a Toyota & a Williams.

In France 15th of 22 again a decent effort.

In the wet in Hungary Monteiro & Albers finished 9th & 10th.

In Japan 16th again ahead of Both Red Bulls and Toro Rosso.

In 2007 he obivously only had half a season, but it was quite poor. Retiring from most races and only running towards the back in those he finished. Also Quali was mostly in 19th-22nd.

His best Quali was 17th & his best Race finish was 14th of 16 in Bahrain.

[rjbetty]

That was good to read. Thanks for posting. Albers and van der Garde look like being on a similar level to me at first glance, so he should be alright.

(Just really wish they'd kept Petrov though... :( )