Apple issues?

[ioan]

Was a bit surprised to see that today, at the time I am typing this the AAPL (Apple Inc.) went down almost 12%.

Apple Inc. (AAPL) Real-Time Stock Quote - NASDAQ.com (http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/aapl/real-time#.UQGI5fKE6VM)

Any comments?

[donKey jote]

Glad I also got Samsung and Google ;) :p

[Firstgear]

If it went down 12% while you were typing that, my comment would be:

You need to take a refresher course in typing/keyboarding. :D

[ioan]

If it went down 12% while you were typing that, my comment would be:

You need to take a refresher course in typing/keyboarding. :D

My bad, it was down almost 12% at the time I was writing that post. And it still is down about 12%.

[driveace]

Cos of all the smashing screen on the latest Apple iPhone 4
In UK Apple want £120 to replace phone in USA they get em done for free

[donKey jote]

don't you hate it when Bananiel was right? :p

[ioan]

don't you hate it when Bananiel was right? :p

Nope.

[Dave B]

In summary the markets got excited and massively over valued Apple. The company itself is secure and still making a truckload of money, just not as much as some gamblers had hoped.

[Daniel]

Only a complete and utter moron wouldn't have realised that apple was overvalued as Dave says.

I said this a long time ago :) Now that the golden goose isn't so golden, the hype wil start to die down around Apple somewhat

[race aficionado]

Now that the golden goose isn't so golden, the hype wil start to die down around Apple somewhat

I disagree.
But that's just me, a very satisfied Apple customer for many many years and looking forward for it's future tech marvels.

I am also aware that Steve Jobs is not around but will trust that cool toys will continue making Apple that Golden Goose as other Apple tech geniuses make their creative, innovative, rock & roll mark.

[ioan]

Race, did you read the story about the golden goose?

[race aficionado]

Race, did you read the story about the golden goose?

Yep, and have you read the other version where the Golden Goose kept on giving and giving?

I haven't either so I will write it then.
:)

[Roamy]

OMG looks like we have another Nokia on our hands. Maybe they will need a bailout in a couple of years.

[gadjo_dilo]

Oops!...I thought this thread is about fruits. :colour:

[henners88]

I disagree.
But that's just me, a very satisfied Apple customer for many many years and looking forward for it's future tech marvels.
Yet Apple posted a $13.1 billion profit yesterday. iPhone sales up 39%, iPad sales up 49% after the release of the Mini with Mac and iPod sales down considerably in the last quarter. They are talking about flat growth but iPhone/iPad sales alone are increasing by the release. I don't think Apple are in any trouble at all and with rising manufacturing costs and devices maintaining their standard pricing, its Apple who are taking the hit initially.

[SGWilko]

Perhaps the novelty is wearing off;

iPhone: Great phone, but the 5 is probably what the iPhone should have been, given the price bracket, at original launch.
iPad: See above....
iPod: See iPad
Mac: Still seen as a bit 'niche' but will always have its followers.

Eventually, even the die hards will tire of simple updates with a price tag way above reasonable. Unless Apple can bring something unique to the market, rather than adapting their current catalogue to match their rivals, they will struggle to keep up and may well end up going backwards......

Maybe they can concentrate on getting iCloud to stop randomly syncing other peoples photos to random iPhones, or stop iTunes wiping your device simply because it was last synced with a different PC (but one that you own!).

[CaptainRaiden]

looking forward for it's future tech marvels.

:laugh:

[henners88]

Perhaps the novelty is wearing off;
If the novelty was wearing off there would be a clear indication of a lack of interest through its sales figures I would have thought. They may not have encountered an increase with their desktops and laptop sales, but iPhone and iPad sales are up considerably in the last quarter and this is why Apple are continuing to make multi billion dollar profits.

[Mark]

Apple make good products, but they aren't the second coming ;)

[SGWilko]

If the novelty was wearing off there would be a clear indication of a lack of interest through its sales figures I would have thought. They may not have encountered an increase with their desktops and laptop sales, but iPhone and iPad sales are up considerably in the last quarter and this is why Apple are continuing to make multi billion dollar profits.

It is beginning to happen though. The markets are spooked. It's not just Apple stock that is down, their suppliers too have seen significant stock falls. There is better tech for less money and more functionality out there, and unless Apple can fend this off with a NEW product rather than just same old updates that merely keep up with the competion, then the situation is likely continue in a downward trend.

So what will Apple do - an iPad mini with a retina screen - wow, that'll be an innovation........

[SGWilko]

Apple make good products, but they aren't the second coming ;)

Yes, but once upon a time Apple led the way. Now they give the impression that they are using their own mapping software to lead the way, and they are clearly going in the wrong direction......

[Mark]

Quite right. Apple haven't had a new product since the iPad, about 3 years ago now. An age in the tech world.

[Daniel]

The point isn't that Apple aren't going to crash and burn in 6 months, but that they have been overvalued as a company.

Part of the hype is driven by their share price, with this dying down somewhat that will mean that the hype will lessen.

[Daniel]

Btw Nokia is now profitable, who was it that said they'd be gone in a few quarters? :rotflmao:

[henners88]

I for one am very pleased to see Nokia making progress. I didn't expect it but glad they are back as one of the desirable brands. :)

[ioan]

The point isn't that Apple aren't going to crash and burn in 6 months, but that they have been overvalued as a company.

Part of the hype is driven by their share price, with this dying down somewhat that will mean that the hype will lessen.

Well they are down another 2.5% today.

You are obviously right about being overvalued.

How the heck can a company that is basically producing 1 phone and 1 and 1/2 tablets even be quoted as the most valuable in the world? It always was a utopia which was perpetrated by the abysmal market laws in place.
Those who sold their share a few days ago are happy, those who didn't are now wondering what to do, they've just lost 14% in 2 days.

[ioan]

I for one am very pleased to see Nokia making progress. I didn't expect it but glad they are back as one of the desirable brands. :)

Say thanks to Microsoft.

[race aficionado]

Mark, not the second coming????

Darn!
I'll have to get rid of my shrine . . .

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/26/uvy7a8at.jpg

[Daniel]

Well, Nokia chose to go with WP :) Microsoft also needed Nokia because their mapping is good :)

[henners88]

Well it was a good move by Nokia as the android market already has some tough competition with many top manufacturers competing. HTC haven't pumped as much of their resources into WP8 as yet so Nokia are able to make their mark. They just need WP8 to have more decent apps and acquire that cool factor now. I don't doubt it's getting there.

[Daniel]

I'm not an app person as you probably know, so the actual os is the most important thing to me.

[donKey jote]

stop iTunes wiping your device simply because it was last synced with a different PC (but one that you own!).

I had that once, only with the same PC :dozey:

[donKey jote]

those who didn't are now wondering what to do, they've just lost 14% in 2 days.
I'm wondering when to buy more :D

[ioan]

I'm wondering when to buy more :D

Wait and see.

[Jag_Warrior]

Hmm, kind of amusing... For those who are now saying that they've been "saying for awhile" that AAPL was overvalued, the problem is, you were saying it when the stock was trading in the $300's and before it began paying a dividend. At that time, the margins were also quite healthy. So it appears that some were announcing the patient's death long before he even started sneezing. :D And the stock is now basically where it was at the beginning of 2012 - although sharply down from its all time high. I've noticed that some here have become fixated on the share price amount, while ignoring the earnings and the associated P/E ratio. They could split it 10 for 1 and then it would be a $44 stock. And I have a sneaking suspicion that there are some who might then say it is now "fairly priced".

Fundamentally, stocks are valued off of P/E ratios and earnings expectations. Stocks which meet or beat expectations are generally awarded higher P/E's. For the past couple of quarters, AAPL has failed to meet or beat expectations and the profit margins have compressed. I don't recall that AAPL's P/E ever got overly high (vs. the NASDAQ or S&P 500) ... not above 20, I don't believe. I agree that there was a good deal of over-optimism behind the stock. But with it now trading at roughly a 10 P/E (versus Microsoft at 15.29 - which I also own... until I can dump it after options expiration), I have every intention of either buying some longer dated calls, or maybe the stock itself, on Monday. I know of/see nothing fundamentally bad that would erode a buy around $425-$430, so I wouldn't be afraid to sit & wait for awhile.

MSFT pays a higher dividend % than AAPL. But MSFT hasn't done anything much in the 4 months or so that I've had it (1 dividend check and a couple of option plays) - or the past 10 years. Nokia would have been a good, though completely speculative buy... so would RIMM... so would HPQ... so would DELL - all speculative. Google has done well. And Facebook has made a bounce up (though I wouldn't buy it for anything).

IMO, as a company, what APPL needs in the short term is a deal with China Telecom. And what would help the stock in the short term is about a 20% boost to the dividend. Longer term, I believe that AAPL's TV strategy is a non-starter. They either need to get something on store shelves by the end of this year or they need to stop yammering about it. And Cook needs to get the supply chain concerns cleaned up. That's supposed to be his specialty and that's what contributed most to the recent revenue shortfalls (especially on the Mac side). I also believe that Apple needs to put some of that enormous cash horde to work. It's dead money right now, yielding just a touch above 0%. They don't need to do a Microsoft and go buy something for $5 billion that's worth $500 million. But they could take out a company like TiVo and not even miss the money - and they'd have a profitable business in the TV arena that would pay for itself over time. There are many other concerns that could be operated as stand-alone businesses and would contribute to revenues.

But for now, more than a few AAPL watchers are looking to see whether Tim Cook is indeed the right man to lead this company. While I would choose him over Steve Ballmer or Carly Fiorina, that's not exactly a ringing endorsement. My prediction is, two more bad quarters like this one and the heat will be on Cook. If he doesn't get things rolling again with some new products, that get launched without a hitch, then I think he could be job shopping by late 2014/early 2015.

Years ago I had some compamny issued stok that went from $65-$70 to $3.50 during the Great Recession. So this drop in Apple hardly gets my attention. If it seems that something fundamental may be changing, then I'll probably look to lighten up. But it's usually best to buy when others are talking about selling and best to sell when others are talking about buying.

[Jag_Warrior]

Btw Nokia is now profitable, who was it that said they'd be gone in a few quarters? :rotflmao:

Would be gone or could be gone? The "could be gone" was likely me. And I wouldn't gloat too much just yet. They've managed to post one profitable quarter of $584 million after coming off a loss of $1.27 billion in the previous quarter. And yesterday (Friday) the stock dropped on concerns about it having to eliminate its dividend to preserve cash. And their bonds are still rated junk/BB-. There are still lots of serious, long term issues to be dealt with there.

I don't wish for RIMM or Nokia (or any other company) to go out of business or struggle. Whether I like or buy their products or not, I realize that these fanboi bench racing sessions usually overlook the fact that people work at these firms and have families to take care of. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't short the stock if I thought they were going to stumble. But I get no more joy out of seeing a once successful company fail than I do out of evicting a once good tenant.

[donKey jote]

I'm seriously thinking of topping up soon...

[Bagwan]

Apple issues ?
Rotten Apple ?

Get a Blackberry .
They come out today .

[tfp]

I'm not surprised their profits are down, I'm still using a iphone 3GS and have no desire to get a 5. They're good products, but once you have owned one, you've owned them all.

[Jag_Warrior]

They're good products, but once you have owned one, you've owned them all.

After a nasty divorce, that's the same thing a friend of mine says about women.

[donKey jote]

I'll be upgrading the kid's iPod Touch 2nd Gen. to a 5th Gen (+ lightning adapter :dozey :) mid February...

IF itunes doesn't screw me and allows all purchased material to synch with the new gadget instead of deleting it all from the PC, I'll double my stocks... otherwise I'll sell and put the cash into Samsungs, Googles or Microsofts, and never touch Apple again :p

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[tfp]

After a nasty divorce, that's the same thing a friend of mine says about women.

:rotflmao:
You have to admit, your friend does have a good point!!

[speedsville]

In summary the markets got excited and massively over valued Apple. The company itself is secure and still making a truckload of money, just not as much as some gamblers had hoped.


But they don't do dividends so, what good is it to have the stock, I sold mine at the end of last year.

[donKey jote]

They started giving dividends last year...

[Jag_Warrior]

But they don't do dividends so, what good is it to have the stock, I sold mine at the end of last year.


Dividends are a nice way to put some money in your pocket without having to sell the stock. But one (major) reason to buy a stock is for capital appreciation. By saying that you sold at the end of "last year," I assume you meant at the end of 2011, not 2012 (as you would have known about the dividend). At the end of 2011, AAPL was about a $400 stock. Even if you'd held it through the $700 peak and watched it fall back to where it is now ($475 +/-), you'd still be up about 20% from $400 - not counting the dividends. Apple has a 2%+ dividend and only trades at a P/E ratio of 10.5 or so. Right now, I can't think of a better, safer place for my money. Google doesn't pay a dividend and it trades at a P/E over 24. Amazon doesn't pay a dividend, it has little to no earnings and even when it did, it's often traded at 400-500 times earnings. FaceBook? No dividend, almost nothing in earnings and trades at almost 3000 times earnings. Microsoft? Sluggish, but steady earnings, 3.3% dividend and trades at 15 times earnings. This is why AAPL was seen as a good buy in the low to mid $400's. But unless they come up with another big hit, the stock could easily turn into another MSFT: dead money stock for a long time, that you just buy to be in tech and get a dividend. We'll see.

[speedsville]

Dividends are a nice way to put some money in your pocket without having to sell the stock. But one (major) reason to buy a stock is for capital appreciation. By saying that you sold at the end of "last year," I assume you meant at the end of 2011, not 2012 (as you would have known about the dividend). At the end of 2011, AAPL was about a $400 stock. Even if you'd held it through the $700 peak and watched it fall back to where it is now ($475 +/-), you'd still be up about 20% from $400 - not counting the dividends. Apple has a 2%+ dividend and only trades at a P/E ratio of 10.5 or so. Right now, I can't think of a better, safer place for my money. Google doesn't pay a dividend and it trades at a P/E over 24. Amazon doesn't pay a dividend, it has little to no earnings and even when it did, it's often traded at 400-500 times earnings. FaceBook? No dividend, almost nothing in earnings and trades at almost 3000 times earnings. Microsoft? Sluggish, but steady earnings, 3.3% dividend and trades at 15 times earnings. This is why AAPL was seen as a good buy in the low to mid $400's. But unless they come up with another big hit, the stock could easily turn into another MSFT: dead money stock for a long time, that you just buy to be in tech and get a dividend. We'll see.


No I sold in 12 of 2012 to avoid the CG tax increase and because the stock was tumbling. (I have been right on that one)

Never got a dividend.

But made plenty on the stock.

[Jag_Warrior]

No I sold in 12 of 2012 to avoid the CG tax increase and because the stock was tumbling. (I have been right on that one)

Never got a dividend.

But made plenty on the stock.

I don't know when you bought your stock, but AAPL paid two dividend distributions in 2012. Both amounted to $2.65 per share. They paid out in mid August and mid November for holders on the respective record dates. If you were an owner around those times, you might want to look into what happened to your checks.

That wasn't a bad time to sell. Much of my position was established when the stock was in the $30's (and there was no dividend). And while selling a chunk of that position at $700+ (and then being able to buy back in the mid/low $400's) would have been nice, my Spidey Senses and 20/20 sort of let me down on that one. :D As long as the fundamentals continue to look good, I plan to stay long (the free cashflow and cash pile is beginning to look ridiculous - AAPL will be able to pay off the U.S. debt before the government figures out how to stop piling up deficits). I don't get too wound up about gyrations on something that I've determined is a long term investment. My MSFT, on the other hand, is just a tradeable. I sell calls against it whenever I can, take the dividends and I'll trade it back & forth and not think about it. If Einhorn is able to push Apple to hand out a bigger dividend with his lawsuit (or whatever scheme he's dreamed up), that might be good too. That's certainly put some legs behind the stock over the past few sessions.

[speedsville]

I don't know when you bought your stock, but AAPL paid two dividend distributions in 2012. Both amounted to $2.65 per share. They paid out in mid August and mid November for holders on the respective record dates. If you were an owner around those times, you might want to look into what happened to your checks.

That wasn't a bad time to sell. Much of my position was established when the stock was in the $30's (and there was no dividend). And while selling a chunk of that position at $700+ (and then being able to buy back in the mid/low $400's) would have been nice, my Spidey Senses and 20/20 sort of let me down on that one. :D As long as the fundamentals continue to look good, I plan to stay long (the free cashflow and cash pile is beginning to look ridiculous - AAPL will be able to pay off the U.S. debt before the government figures out how to stop piling up deficits). I don't get too wound up about gyrations on something that I've determined is a long term investment. My MSFT, on the other hand, is just a tradeable. I sell calls against it whenever I can, take the dividends and I'll trade it back & forth and not think about it. If Einhorn is able to push Apple to hand out a bigger dividend with his lawsuit (or whatever scheme he's dreamed up), that might be good too. That's certainly put some legs behind the stock over the past few sessions.


Maybe the broker set it up for reinvestment direct or he has the proceeds at the account?

If they paid one, oh well, the stock is gone and I made the right move there for sure.
Made enough on that one to make up for all losses over 30 years.

Thanks for your inputs.
Interesting!

[tobbe3]

My Iphone 4s is just stopping sometimes, don´t know why...

[tobbe3]

Please help

[tobbe3]

Quickly

[henners88]

Take it to the Apple Store. I don't charge for that advice.

[Mark]

You need to wash the motherboard. Putting the phone in a dishwasher is usually best for this.

[henners88]

You need to wash the motherboard. Putting the phone in a dishwasher is usually best for this.
Or put it inside a Salmon with a bit of butter and plenty of lemon juice, wrap in tin foil and wash on a high temperature with no salt or soap tablet. You'll have a fixed phone and a lovely piece of poached salmon to eat whilst you wait for the iPhone to dry out.

[SGWilko]

Or put it inside a Salmon with a bit of butter and plenty of lemon juice, wrap in tin foil and wash on a high temperature with no salt or soap tablet. You'll have a fixed phone and a lovely piece of poached salmon to eat whilst you wait for the iPhone to dry out.

Oh, and some Tipp-Ex to paint over the now red water tell-tales........

[steveaki13]

I havent bothered reading the rest of the thread, but I often have apple issues.


The skin is always getting stuck in my teeth.

[SGWilko]

Apple gone done a Britney again... (as in Oops, we did it again);

BBC News - Apple on update issue - no comment (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21411970)

[henners88]

I spoke to 2 colleagues at lunch who both have the iPhone 4S and neither have had any issues with 6.1. One is on Orange and the other on O2 so perhaps its just Vodafone customers who have been affected?

[Mark]

It's strange they would say that 6.1 is draining the battery too quickly. Since upgrading I've noticed significantly improved battery life.

[SGWilko]

Maybe they want the battery to die before the user gets the chance to load up Apple's mapping software.... :D

[schmenke]

I'll be upgrading the kid's iPod Touch 2nd Gen. to a 5th Gen (+ lightning adapter :dozey :) mid February...

IF itunes doesn't screw me and allows all purchased material to synch with the new gadget instead of deleting it all from the PC, ...

I don't see why that would be a problem. I've upgraded my iPod at least a couple of times and the iTunes library has always sync'd fine, although depending on the volume the first sync may take a while.
And with the new gen device you'll be able to back up to iCloud. Oh, and you can connect to a Bluetooth device :) (something I haven't yet been able to figure out on my Samsung tablet :mad: )

[donKey jote]

I don't see why that would be a problem. I've upgraded my iPod at least a couple of times and the iTunes library has always sync'd fine, although depending on the volume the first sync may take a while.

I speak from experience :(
Only 50% success rate so far. Although the last time -syncing to a new nano- was the one that worked :)

[schmenke]

Perhaps first try updating iTunes to the lateset version :?:

[donKey jote]

maybe...
I got an iPod touch for little miss sunshine today, but I won't know if the syncing will work until next week. :)

ahhh sod it... after seeing how full the Apple store in donkeyville was 5 minutes after opening time today (mostly old grannies :eek: :crazy: ), I'll double my stock anyway plus get an iPad mini for myself even though I don't really need one (who does? but price in $ = price in €...) :p

[schmenke]

I've never had syncing problems, either between my 4th gen. and my eldest's Nano, although I have this set to sync manually so she doesn't have to endure Iron Maiden and I don't have to endure Selina Gomez :p :

[donKey jote]

So far so good :D

[donKey jote]

well iTunes worked fine... an iPod nano, Touch 2, Touch 5 and an iPad mini are all synched and have the latest iOs, without data loss this time! :bandit:

Now I just need to get facetime to work between the touch 5 and the ipad. Who said apple was donkey-proof ? :dozey: