Rally Discussion and Bar Talk Thread

[onemanband]

So M+S means different things in different countries in Europe?

Studded tyres when driving 2WD. Studless on 4WD and mainly driving on main roads, maybe also for 2WD..

As far as I know, M+S doesn't mean much legally - they don't have to go through tests meant for ice-snow while M+S marked with the arctic badge (a silouette of a mountain with 3 peaks with a snowflake inside) do. I haven't seen any other marking on the tires that would indicate the softness or optimal working temperature.

[dupanton]

Daniel Elena finished in an excellent 6th overall (on 327 starters!) in the Monte Carlo Historique, a regularity rally for oldtimers.

[itix]

Daniel Elena finished in an excellent 6th overall (on 327 starters!) in the Monte Carlo Historique, a regularity rally for oldtimers.
If you're sitting next to an ultra champ for so many years you're bound to pick something up!

[Rallyper]

It was regularity. Average speed of maybe 50 km/h. However hard to keep in the alps. But still.

[dupanton]

It was regularity. Average speed of maybe 50 km/h. However hard to keep in the alps. But still.

I know how hard it is to stick to the average on twisty roads. Of course the codriver is more important here, but still, you can't make the slightest error in the Monte or you loose 50 places!

[Sulland]

So M+S means different things in different countries in Europe?

Studded tyres when driving 2WD. Studless on 4WD and mainly driving on main roads, maybe also for 2WD..

Explanation from Goodyear
http://www.goodyear.eu/corporate_emea/our-responsibilities/road-safety/winter-tires-mixed-picture.jsp

A genaral explanation;
For Central Europe most drive on summer tyres year round.For those that live at high altitude, they mostly use M+S or non studded winter tyres.
In North Europe we either use Studded winter tyres, or friction tyres. Both have much lower shore value (hardness scala) values, to keep them from getting stiff in minus 20-30 C. In some countries you need to have winter tyres after a given date, and take them off again before a certain date. Espacially since the studded tires make the asphalt wear off much more.

[omer yetis]

Off topic but looking for help....

Will be visiting New Zealand next week and planning to visit those amazing stages used during 2012 WRC
I was wondering if there is any chance for me to rent an Impreza WRX or an Evo, Road car around auckland for a day or two
would much appreciated any feedbacks

and love to hear more suggestions of yours about the stages and possible sight seeing places around.

thanks in advance

best
Omer

[dimviii]

Ott Tänak ‏@OttTanak


More
Today morning another miracle joined our family Mommy-daddy and big sister are happy happy

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C31TU-zXAAA1TK8.jpg

[skarderud]

Østberg is next out, the planned date of birth is the week after sweden.

Sent fra min XP7700 via Tapatalk

[danon]

http://gififly.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/tumblr_o8tn03yoQO1ukldkho1_400.gif

[itix]

http://gififly.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/tumblr_o8tn03yoQO1ukldkho1_400.gif
Faster than Bertelli anyway...

[AL14]

And better grip than DMACK

[AL14]

Am I the only one who struggle to understand what Paddon says? New zeland accent is very difficult to understand unless you know english fluently which I don't unfortunately.

[Franky]

Am I the only one who struggle to understand what Paddon says? New zeland accent is very difficult to understand unless you know english fluently which I don't unfortunately.

Wait till you have to understand some deep Irish or Scottish accents. First question that pops into your head is "they are speaking in English, right?"

[A FONDO]

Am I the only one who struggle to understand what Paddon says? New zeland accent is very difficult to understand unless you know english fluently which I don't unfortunately.
You don't miss anything, he talks like a PR robot. I doubt he uses more than 100 different words in his public speech.

[AL14]

Wait till you have to understand some deep Irish or Scottish accents. First question that pops into your head is "they are speaking in English, right?"

:D :D
I've been 4 months in Galway and I agree with you, deep irish accent is not english :D :D That's why I didn't speak it fluently after that period.

[Zeakiwi]

Am I the only one who struggle to understand what Paddon says? New zeland accent is very difficult to understand unless you know english fluently which I don't unfortunately.

It is a South Island, NZ rural accent. Speech to speech pocket electronic translators are becoming more common/

[GravelBen]

Am I the only one who struggle to understand what Paddon says? New zeland accent is very difficult to understand unless you know english fluently which I don't unfortunately.


It is a South Island, NZ rural accent. Speech to speech pocket electronic translators are becoming more common/

I don't have any trouble understanding it! :laugh:

(I did go to school with him though)

[AL14]

(I did go to school with him though)

Really?? Tell us about him!

[Jewy46]

:D :D
I've been 4 months in Galway and I agree with you, deep irish accent is not english :D :D That's why I didn't speak it fluently after that period.
What part of Galway? I cant be far away :)
Our west of Ireland accent can be hard to understand at times, apparently we talk too fast

[GravelBen]

Really?? Tell us about him!

I was 2 years ahead and just an acquaintance really, not a close friend or anything. Nice guy though, the way he comes across in interviews etc is pretty much just how he is - a generally down to earth good sort.

[AL14]

What part of Galway? I cant be far away :)
Our west of Ireland accent can be hard to understand at times, apparently we talk too fast
Galway city. Glean Darà neighboorhood. I had a great time there, love Ireland

[Jewy46]

Galway city. Glean Darà neighboorhood. I had a great time there, love Ireland

I know it well, a nice part of the city. I am from a town called Headford, only 15 minutes from Galway, shows the world is a small place

Glad to hear you enjoyed your time here :D

Did you ever go to see the Galway International Rally that takes place in February?

[AL14]

I know it well, a nice part of the city. I am from a town called Headford, only 15 minutes from Galway, shows the world is a small place

Glad to hear you enjoyed your time here :D

Did you ever go to see the Galway International Rally that takes place in February?

Unfortunately I was there during summer months. The only race I saw was the horse week (or something with the similar name) due to the job I had there. You guys go mad for horses races :D :D, there were a lot of people in the city also.

By the way those irish roads should be great for a proper rally, I'm sure that event is a very good one. I will come back for sure one day and the rally could be a nice excuse to do it.

[Jewy46]

Unfortunately I was there during summer months. The only race I saw was the horse week (or something with the similar name) due to the job I had there. You guys go mad for horses races :D :D, there were a lot of people in the city also.

By the way those irish roads should be great for a proper rally, I'm sure that event is a very good one. I will come back for sure one day and the rally could be a nice excuse to do it.

You would be more than welcome, our roads are fantastic for rallying. We are lucky in this regard..... im very happy to say I was competing in the Galway International Rally myself just 2 weeks ago :D great event!

If you ever want to visit for the rally, let me know! Id be happy to let you stay here

[AL14]

You would be more than welcome, our roads are fantastic for rallying. We are lucky in this regard..... im very happy to say I was competing in the Galway International Rally myself just 2 weeks ago :D great event!

If you ever want to visit for the rally, let me know! Id be happy to let you stay here

Thanks!

[KiwiWRCfan]

I missed the C3 WRC Live videos from Citroen Racing over the weekend. Interesting to watch them now the rally is over, particularly Kris's comments on his Vargasen off https://www.facebook.com/citroenracing/videos/10154365340437057/

[Mk2 RS2000]

Wait till you have to understand some deep Irish or Scottish accents. First question that pops into your head is "they are speaking in English, right?"

Having travelled to many countries where English is not their first language is still amazes me that the hardest country in the world to understand the spoken English is in many pats of England

[danon]

fun, fun, fun... unbelievable - https://youtu.be/NtGTZCZ5L3U

Elfyn Evans on a snowy Monte...

[AL14]

PSA has bought Opel? I didn't know they were going to do it!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

PSA has bought Opel? I didn't know they were going to do it!

And Vauxhall in the UK...

French ownership is a worrying move for the factories here, especially my local plant making the Astra. :disturb:

[KiwiWRCfan]

Barman can you please play Ironmaiden's song 6 6 6 and dedicate it to the MSport drivers Tanak, Ogier & Evans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxnN05vOuSM
If anyone is unsure why this particular song have a look at stage wins by driver so far this season

[smokingjoe]

Barman can you please play Ironmaiden's song 6 6 6 and dedicate it to the MSport drivers Tanak, Ogier & Evans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxnN05vOuSM
If anyone is unsure why this particular song have a look at stage wins by driver so far this season

better order a round of Trooper Ale, while your at it. great song, excellent brew

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Promotion before sport - is this the way for the WRC ?
http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/wrc/11209-promotion-before-sport-is-this-the-way-for-the-wrc

[AL14]

Promotion before sport - is this the way for the WRC ?
http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/wrc/11209-promotion-before-sport-is-this-the-way-for-the-wrc

That is a very nice discussion to take.
I work in the marketing industry so I have also interest in these kind of dynamics.

But I would not take it like the author of the article did. I'm very much convinced that there is not such contrast between "promotion" and "sport".
I don't think that for the sake of promotion you have to sacrifice the sport. This is a leitmotiv when it comes to rally and I think it is one of the big mistake of the sport.
From one side (the promoters), there is the need to sacrifice the sport for the promotion because rally is a bad format for nowadays media.
From the other side, people thinks that driving 500km away and risking to lose 2 stages is a good achievement in a promotion point of view, but it's bad for the sport because at the end 2 stages have been sacrified.

In my opinion they are both wrong.

The need N1 for a good promotion is a good product! And a rally 70km shorter is not as good as the original plan! They have not sacrified a rally for the promotion, both the product and the promotion have been damaged from that hitch.
Rally is spectacular as it is and it is IDEAL to promote with new media!
Wake up promoters! People are all the time with a smartphone in their hands, something going on all day fits perfectly with our culture!

Also, the fact that it is different from other sports that have a single event of max 2 hours, apparently better to broadcast and promote, is fucking good. Rule N1 of marketing is to find differentiators of products, what makes them unique and use them to show people their value.

This is why I always feel the rage growing inside me when I see the kind of promotion WRC has. Although they have reached some very good achievement (I'm not that negative, they've done some good job), I think that still, a lot of potential is still unused and the reason is basically what I've written up here. (imho)

Would like to hear your opinions about this, not just how it should be promoted (we have talked a lot of time about it), but about the relationship between promotion and sport. Do they have to be in contrast all the time?

[AL14]

Beer break.

Delecour showing how to turn the wheel in a rally car using a pot cover.

https://www.facebook.com/220877394668183/videos/1303229796432932/

(They laugh sometimes but my poor french didn't help me to understan why :) )

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I must admit that waaay back when I got into rallying, it was first through seeing TV highlights. Then it was being able to attend a world rally (1983 RAC, then also '84,85 & 86) as it had numerous local stages at venues such as stately homes, race circuits and even safari parks !

I think these are still the way to grow WRC... get it seen (although now more online than TV) and also take the rally closer to the cities (but not in cities) using decent stages, not these nasty SSS we have now.

[Rallyper]

My first event attending in rallying was Midnight Sun Rally (Midnattssolsrallyt in swedish) back in 1961. Believe it or not - last stage was a Mickey Mouse stage held on a horsetrack outside Stockholm (Ulriksdals travbana för dem som är tillräckligt gamla att minnas old Stockholm).

However my father told me that on a real stage it was way more exciting and that turned my interset on, being only seven years old. Had to wait until the year after and same event which then passed my new home north of Stockholm and local hero Bengt Söderström won in a BMC Cooper S.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I always wonder how much the manufacturers get from WRC rallying... I mean how many extra sales from the money the spend and the exposure they get ?

Citroen for example, after all those years of Loeb-led success, did they increase sales much through that time ?

[tommeke_B]

Well, it's something you can't really measure, maybe it's better that way... ;)

[dimviii]

Well, it's something you can't really measure, maybe it's better that way... ;)

just for reference,but its psa group through the years,couldnt find citroen only.
http://www.autozine.org/Manufacturer/France/PSA.html

[AL14]

just for reference,but its psa group through the years,couldnt find citroen only.
http://www.autozine.org/Manufacturer/France/PSA.html

Very nice numbers. No 2008 crisis for them! I bet that's a better curve than other manufacturers

[Rally Power]

Very nice numbers. No 2008 crisis for them! I bet that's a better curve than other manufacturers

’08 recession effects appeared a bit later in Europe. If you see those numbers, sales decline started in 2011 and there’s a huge drop in 2012 (the years Pug leaved LeMans and Ford quit WRC) and only last year they’ve managed to get over 3M units again.

About motorsport effect on sales: they surely happen in a positive way, even if it’s hard to quantify, but the first purpose for manus to get involved is the brand image they want to reflect on costumers.

The Quattro wasn’t a best seller but it did wonders for Audi image all over the world. The opposite can be said about Lancia; from the day Fiat decided to leave WRC, Lancia brand went into severe crisis.

Biggest surprise to me was Toyota return to WRC; despite their focus on Hybrid cars (and LM/WEC involvement), they were brave enough to enter a series that still doesn’t embrace cleaner tech but is, by far, the most exciting and demanding motorsport form any car maker can compete. Well done Toyota!

[stefanvv]

That is a very nice discussion to take.
I work in the marketing industry so I have also interest in these kind of dynamics.

But I would not take it like the author of the article did. I'm very much convinced that there is not such contrast between "promotion" and "sport".
I don't think that for the sake of promotion you have to sacrifice the sport. This is a leitmotiv when it comes to rally and I think it is one of the big mistake of the sport.
From one side (the promoters), there is the need to sacrifice the sport for the promotion because rally is a bad format for nowadays media.
From the other side, people thinks that driving 500km away and risking to lose 2 stages is a good achievement in a promotion point of view, but it's bad for the sport because at the end 2 stages have been sacrified.

In my opinion they are both wrong.

The need N1 for a good promotion is a good product! And a rally 70km shorter is not as good as the original plan! They have not sacrified a rally for the promotion, both the product and the promotion have been damaged from that hitch.
Rally is spectacular as it is and it is IDEAL to promote with new media!
Wake up promoters! People are all the time with a smartphone in their hands, something going on all day fits perfectly with our culture!

Also, the fact that it is different from other sports that have a single event of max 2 hours, apparently better to broadcast and promote, is fucking good. Rule N1 of marketing is to find differentiators of products, what makes them unique and use them to show people their value.

This is why I always feel the rage growing inside me when I see the kind of promotion WRC has. Although they have reached some very good achievement (I'm not that negative, they've done some good job), I think that still, a lot of potential is still unused and the reason is basically what I've written up here. (imho)

Would like to hear your opinions about this, not just how it should be promoted (we have talked a lot of time about it), but about the relationship between promotion and sport. Do they have to be in contrast all the time?

Promoting WRC is very, very difficult. Common people want to see stunts, crashes, action, etc. Trying to convince them what they see on TV doesn't affects the final result at the and of the season is impossible task. First they must understand the sport itself, but that is also difficult in our dynamic lives, it is not the same with rally, rally is about endurance, not stunts. Ogier is very unatractive driver for the common people as he almost never crashes, so they wonder why should bother to watch this "boring" sport.

However, I think RBMH are making big step forward with their (free) coverage on RedBull TV with lot of media/social options, check it out.

[Mk2 RS2000]

http://alittlebitsideways.co.nz/kennard-to-step-down-from-wrc-role-after-finland/

[skarderud]

I remember back in 2003-04, when Petter Solberg won, subaru raised theire sales with 40prc in Norway.
I don't know the numbers for europe, but they probably got more sales there to?

Sent fra min XP7700 via Tapatalk

[skarderud]

Remember people like to watch nascar and soccer, boring like hell both of them, i fint know what they are waiting for in soccer, but in nascar they ONLY wait to see someone hit the wall.
Probably same people woting for trump and his european fellows......

Sent fra min XP7700 via Tapatalk

[N.O.T]

I always wonder how much the manufacturers get from WRC rallying... I mean how many extra sales from the money the spend and the exposure they get ?

Citroen for example, after all those years of Loeb-led success, did they increase sales much through that time ?

are you like that in real life as well ?? you want numbers to show the correlation between the WRC and sales ??

http://i.imgur.com/oqp1O2q.jpg

[AL14]

’08 recession effects appeared a bit later in Europe. If you see those numbers, sales decline started in 2011 and there’s a huge drop in 2012 (the years Pug leaved LeMans and Ford quit WRC) and only last year they’ve managed to get over 3M units again.

That's interesting.
I knew about 1 year gap to see effects in an economic environment after a certain change.
Maybe in the automotive industry it's different. Yes there is a drop in 2012. (or was it Loeb announcing the retirement? :) I'm kidding )

[pantealex]

The Quattro wasn’t a best seller but it did wonders for Audi image all over the world.

Audi quattro was 2nd most expensive car in Finland at early 80´s, you can´t compare it to "normal" cars. (most expensive was Mercedes 560 SEC)

[Rally Power]

are you like that in real life as well ??


Jesus NOT, you’re acting as a sociopath. We’re having a friendly conversation, there’s no need to insult anyone.

[stefanvv]

Jesus NOT, you’re acting as a sociopath. We’re having a friendly conversation, there’s no need to insult anyone.

We all are reading happily the forum, until someone decides to quote obvious troll stupidity.

[Rally Power]

That's interesting.
I knew about 1 year gap to see effects in an economic environment after a certain change.
Maybe in the automotive industry it's different. Yes there is a drop in 2012. (or was it Loeb announcing the retirement? :) I'm kidding )

Actually the car market isn’t that resilient, but Europe’s recession was felt more deeply from 2010, with the debts crisis and the speculation over the euro. Btw, you joked about Loeb but in part you’re right: Loeb did a lot for Citroen sales. He’s still more popular in France than Ogier, mainly because he managed to be champ in a French manu car and they’ve always saw VW as a threat to their car industry!


Audi quattro was 2nd most expensive car in Finland at early 80´s, you can´t compare it to "normal" cars. (most expensive was Mercedes 560 SEC)

I wasn’t clear enough: the Quattro was never meant to be a best seller but at the time it was launched Audi’s premium image was far from being consolidated. Quattro’s WRC success was a major contribution to the brand image upgrade.

But probably the most noticeable story (a real case study) of a production and WRC winner was the 205: http://jalopnik.com/the-peugeot-205-gti-jalopnik-fantasy-garage-1587233177

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Looking at those PSA figures, albeit that they include Peugeot, they are fairly consistent. I dont see any evidence that their WRC success had any noticable effect on sales.

With low sales marques like Audi (back in the day) and Subaru, I can understand using WRC to boost their image (and sales), but the mainstream ones I sadly cant see them gaining much at all.

[Allar]

I heard that there is a rule about the number of chassis team can use per season. Can someone explain me how it really is?
Is it just for the cars nominated for team points or is it for all of the cars team enters?

[pantealex]

I heard that there is a rule about the number of chassis team can use per season. Can someone explain me how it really is?
Is it just for the cars nominated for team points or is it for all of the cars team enters?

It can´t be for all cars (ford have more cars than others in every rally)

[KiwiWRCfan]

Jarimatti has a joke for us and it involves going into a bar. Starts at 25:05 https://www.facebook.com/puestaapunto.com.mx/videos/10155068406446823/

[OldF]

Rauno Aaltonen. 50 years ago but once more. Video in English.

http://www.urheiluuutiset.com/hyvan-mielen-video-rauno-aaltonen-ja-mini-montessa-2017/

[bluuford]

OK, BAR talk now. South Spain, around Cadiz, Cadiz University, beer suggestions needed? :) Thank you!

[BigWorm]

OK, BAR talk now. South Spain, around Cadiz, Cadiz University, beer suggestions needed? :) Thank you!

Sangria is where it's at in Spain ;)

[swanny]

I use RateBeer, although the new version sucks as I can't find the navigate to option (like it used to have).

[Rally Power]

My favourite, from the main brands: Mahou (cinco estrellas).

[itix]

OK, BAR talk now. South Spain, around Cadiz, Cadiz University, beer suggestions needed? :) Thank you!

I'm one of those odd ones who likes beer brewed by Belgian monks so you should probably not listen to me, but spain has a lot of interesting microbreweries, many of them on RateBeer like someone above mentioned.

Barely anyone in that region speaks english though, so unless you speak spanish, practice your charades!

[Rally Power]

https://imagens.publicocdn.com/imagens.aspx/1118790?tp=UH&db=IMAGENS&w=554&h=382&act=cropResize
Photo: publico.pt

How do we know this moron is not a rally fan? He didn’t mention we also spent the money on Rally Cars... :p

http://www.thejournal.ie/eurogroup-women-and-drinks-3301843-Mar2017/?utm_source=shortlink

[dimviii]

answering to Tor Andre Børresen‏ at twitter about this video
Anyone seen any video of this? Sounds like a pub story to me ;)

https://youtu.be/UURYpj4imcM



its real,i was spectating at this spot with Marko Martin(he had retired)
was the only one who jumped.It was crazy,and you have to see it to believe.
there is a video,but not so good view,to understand what he did.

[Simmi]

I was doing some adding up and Portugal this year will be my 24th WRC event as a spectator.

That's rallies between 1994-2017. I missed a lot of Rally GB's which annoys me to this day - but I've tried to make up for it in recent years. Managed to get to eight different rounds in that time too.

I just wondered what everyone else had done. Surely we have guys on here with 50+ events. Probably simpler to just keep it to WRC rounds.

[KKS]

answering to Tor Andre Børresen‏ at twitter about this video
Anyone seen any video of this? Sounds like a pub story to me ;)

https://youtu.be/UURYpj4imcM



its real,i was spectating at this spot with Marko Martin(he had retired)
was the only one who jumped.It was crazy,and you have to see it to believe.
there is a video,but not so good view,to understand what he did.
What an amazing story! Great!

[danon]

amazing story indeed...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0d/e9/d7/0de9d7f2f65143971ec28bb752a7b2be.jpg

[MartijnS]

I just wondered what everyone else had done. Surely we have guys on here with 50+ events. Probably simpler to just keep it to WRC rounds.

Nice idea!
Think this is my list. So 40 so far!

14x Germany
6x Spain
4x Wales
4x Italy
3x Finland
2x Sweden
2x Greece
2x France
1x Portugal
1x Poland
1x Norway

[Mintexmemory]

11 x GB
2 x Ireland
2 x Germany
2 x Spain
1 x Finland
1 x Monte
Plus 2 x Italy!! (forgot)
21 - so a long way to go to equal others

[Franky]

7 x Rally Finland
3 x Germany
2 x Poland
1 x Italy (Sardinia)

That's 2003-2016

[Rallyper]

>15xRally Sweden
17xRally Finland
3xRally GB
1xGreece
1xPortugal

That is 1976-2017

[pantealex]

I was born in Ouninpohja 1973, so well over 40x Finland
+
6 or 7 x Sweden
1 x Norway

= about 50 times.

[Simmi]

Awesome guys.

I'll put mine in the same format as you:

12x Rally GB
4x Finland
2x Sweden
1x Ireland
1x Portugal
1x Germany
1x Catalunya
1x Monte Carlo

= 23.

3 to 4 more events planned this year.

[CWJ]

x Germany
x Monte
x Spain, Wales, Italy, Sweden, France
x Finland, Portugal
x Australia, Argentina, Mexico, Poland
x Greece

= 64.

Waiting for another issue of Kenya and New Zealand before retire...

[AL14]

11 x GB
2 x Ireland
2 x Germany
2 x Spain
1 x Finland
1 x Monte

19 - so a long way to go to equal others

Aren't you forgetting something??:evil::evil:

[itix]

Hahaha, I'm massively behind most people here.

1x Sweden
1x Germany
1x Monte Carlo

[rp]

Must have been already earlier, but the 1st I remember was 1000 Lakes 1984 & Kuukanpää stage. Alén & Toivonen driving Lancia 037 & Vatanen with the mighty 205 T16!

After that Rally Finland every year and also couple of times Sweden and Germany.

33 x Finland
2 x Sweden
2 x Germany

[Doon]

14 x GB
2 x Finland
1x Ireland
1 x Sweden
1 x France (Alsace)
1 x Sardinia

Finland and GB again this year. Need a non-European event to add to the list.

[SubaruNorway]

Not so many but starting With Rally Norway in 2007 I'm up to 19 now :)

1x Sardinia
2x Rally Norway
7x Rally Finland
9x Rally Sweden

70 Norwegian championship rounds though :)

[AL14]

Hahaha, I'm massively behind most people here.

1x Sweden
1x Germany
1x Monte Carlo

Thanks itix, now I can show mine without feeling ashamed of myself :D

2x Sardinia
2x Monte

Beat you, you noob

[itix]

Thanks itix, now I can show mine without feeling ashamed of myself :D

2x Sardinia
2x Monte

Beat you, you noob
But I'm more diverse! ;)

[Mirek]

I don't travel much to rallies either. I did basically only this:

4x Monte Carlo
1x Finland
----
10x Barum
4x Ypres
1x Waldviertel (Austria)

Aside of that only dozens of Czech events. I have to admit that in last couple of years I do only several favorite events per year and usually the same five or six ones.

[tommeke_B]

Had a good share of WRC events the last couple of years.

11x Germany
6x Sardinia
4x Sweden
3x Finland
3x Wales
3x France (Alsace)
2x Poland
2x Catalunya
2x Monte Carlo (Gap)
1x Portugal (Algarve)

With Poland, Finland and Wales on my calendar, Wales should be my 40th WRC event. Many events besides WRC too. During the last 10 years I've always done between 20 and 25 events per year, events on all levels. WRC, Barum 4 times, Belgian national and regional events, a few times Eifel Rallye (when it was still a rally) in Germany, French gravel and tarmac events, a few events in The Netherlands... Can't complain. :)

[N.O.T]

Acropolis from 97 to 2012 with an exception 2004
GB 99-00-01-02
Bulgaria 2010

[swanny]

Not so many for me:
Germany 3
NZ 2
San Remo (WRC) 1
Finland 1
GB 1

[dodge33cymru]

I'm a fairly recent re-convert to rallying, I went to Rally GB in 2013 because I had days off, so well behind but trying to make up for lost time.

7x UK (that I have functional memory of, few others as a baby apparently...)
3x Sweden
2x Spain

I need to add Monte Carlo, Germany and Finland to that list.


Also done 3x Ypres, which is arguably my favourite event of the year, and 1x Valais, when it was in the ERC still. Planning on adding Zlin to that list this year.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Mirek]

Remind me Yourself let say one or two weeks before Barum and I'll give You some hints ;)

[sindroms]

As for me:

4x Finland
1x Sweden
1x Germany
1x Poland
----------

Worth to mention:
8x South Estonia (every possible rally in that region - Estonian championship legs - winter, summer, ERC Estonia)
4x ERC Liepaja
4x Rally Saaremaa (Estonia)
40 Latvian Championship rounds.
-----------

This year ERC Barum is on my list for sure. Maybe some last week decisions regarding to Poland WRC (quite possible) or Finland WRC (less likely)

[raybak]

5 x Rally Australia - 4 as a competitor
2 x Rally NZ - 1 as a competitor
1 x Rally Sardigna

Have competed in over 300 rallies. Will be doing Rally Australia this year.

Ray

[Mintexmemory]

Yes corrected and back again in June!! :)


-Also 2x Ypres and 1 Cote Challonais

(No listing of the number of Mintex rallies!!!)

[dodge33cymru]

Remind me Yourself let say one or two weeks before Barum and I'll give You some hints ;)
Thank you sir, will do!

[Arwel Davies]

14x Wales Rally GB (Once as a competitor, 2015)
1x Rally Spain
1x Rally Finland

I am somewhat lacking compared to some of you guys haha.

[Sso]

28x Rally Sweden (give or take one or two..)
2x Rally Finland

[dimviii]

http://mailchi.mp/6ed2114ade91/rallye-de-france-tour-de-corse-view-from-the-stages-by-mcklein

[Rallyper]

Agree with Colin. Citroen stays with the setup of drivers 2018. Don´t think Ogier will move from Ford.

[Watson]

Agree with Colin. Citroen stays with the setup of drivers 2018. Don´t think Ogier will move from Ford.

What are you refering to?

[Franky]

I think Per had a pub lunch and replied in the wrong thread. Logically he is referring to the latest Colin Clark post

[Rallyper]

Right Franky. But honestly it was mostly to get the thread going again. ;)

[KiwiWRCfan]

Ferna Branca is the drink of choice for Rally Argentina fans. Are there particular drinks that can be associated with other rallies and if so what ? https://youtu.be/u882gWL1m5M?t=46

[Rallyper]

I think Rum and Cola suits every event ... :)

[Mintexmemory]

Ferna Branca is the drink of choice for Rally Argentina fans. Are there particular drinks that can be associated with other rallies and if so what ? https://youtu.be/u882gWL1m5M?t=46
Typo there - It's Fernet Branca.
Mirto and Filu e Ferru in Sardinia
Cheap Lidl pilsner in Germany (or the crates of Jupiler the Sprouts bring over the border.
Brains beer in Wales (although Purple Moose craft beers are much better)
Bison Grass Wodka in Poland
Estrella Damm in Spain

Everywhere pils and wine!

[Simmi]

Definitely mini bottles of Sagres or Super Bock in Portugal.

[AL14]

I don't remember who but I'm sure there are some EWRC guy here.
I wanted to ask you, if it is possible, thanks to your huge database, to make a comparison between number of entry lists over the last 3-4 years, in all Europe. And maybe with some clustare like minor events, national events, international events etc...

Do you have APIs or something? Can this be done automatically?

[skarderud]

I think that alcohol and sports doesn't belong together. Party in the evening, driving om daytime.

Beer isn't particulary good in -20 in february in the middle of a forrest eighter;)

Sent fra min XP7700 via Tapatalk

[krissucool]

I think that alcohol and sports doesn't belong together. Party in the evening, driving om daytime.


What are you, a women?

[N.O.T]

What are you, a women?

no, but you see some people are not degenerate low lifes to need alcohol to enjoy things....

[SubaruNorway]

What are you, a women?

It's not that fun seeing a fin dive into a fire because he's too drunk to sit up straight...

[Rallyper]

On the other hand fans most often don´t drive the rallycars. We enjoy rallying, sometimes with some alcohol. Same as enjoying good food with excellent wine.

[jparker]

Definitely mini bottles of Sagres or Super Bock in Portugal.
I'm afraid those two plus Bavaria (made in Portugal) are the only widely available beers in Portugal. Super Bock is nothing special, but is the standard there. Not sure why foreign beer is not available.

[Simmi]

Admittedly I don't tend to fancy a beer in the cold, wet Welsh forests.

A week ago in Portugal when I didn't have to drive myself anywhere? Hell yes. Le Mans 24 Hours in a few weeks. Would be rude not to have a few beers.

But each to their own.

[TheFlyingTuga]

I'm afraid those two plus Bavaria (made in Portugal) are the only widely available beers in Portugal. Super Bock is nothing special, but is the standard there. Not sure why foreign beer is not available.

Sorry jparker, but I don't think we have any beer called Bavaria in here. And you can find Heineken and Carlsberg almost everywhere... and Estrella Damm in the regions close to the border.

[skarderud]

What are you, a women?
Hardly, 7x National champion in bobsleigh ( for men), Worked in a bar, and as a guard.
Also have licenses for jury and racecontroller, and have lots of hours in the forrests as a voulanteer, i never understand why be shitdrunk in a ditch is a nice way to spectate a rally.
A cold beer in sunshine i understand, but to be unconchius drunk and "spectate" anything i really can't understand.

Sent fra min XP7700 via Tapatalk

[skarderud]

no, but you see some people are not degenerate low lifes to need alcohol to enjoy things....
Wow, i liked a post from NOT !

Sent fra min XP7700 via Tapatalk

[Lousada]

I'm afraid those two plus Bavaria (made in Portugal) are the only widely available beers in Portugal. Super Bock is nothing special, but is the standard there. Not sure why foreign beer is not available.

Bavaria Beer is made in The Netherlands.

[Rally Power]

Hardly, 7x National champion in bobsleigh ( for men), Worked in a bar, and as a guard.
Also have licenses for jury and racecontroller, and have lots of hours in the forrests as a voulanteer, i never understand why be shitdrunk in a ditch is a nice way to spectate a rally.
A cold beer in sunshine i understand, but to be unconchius drunk and "spectate" anything i really can't understand.

My hat’s off to you skarderud! Never been close to a bobsleigh track but from TV it seems a fantastic sport!

On the drinking bebate I’m with Rallyper: Rally is a celebration to be lived with friends; there’s no harm having a couple of beers during it.

[Rally Power]

Super Bock is nothing special, but is the standard there. Not sure why foreign beer is not available.

Like TFT said, foreign beers (and local craft beers) are everywhere but it’s also true that Sagres and Super Bock dominate Portuguese market since ever. Some years ago Heineken bought Sagres and SB was sold to Carlsberg, but the beer giants decided to keep our national brands at the top, as consumers are totally loyal to them. You’re entitled to find them tasteless, as taste is a subjective experience, but both are prized brands in international beer competitions.

[jparker]

Bavaria Beer is made in The Netherlands.
Sorry, not Bavaria. It's that one
https://untappd.akamaized.net/photo/2016_09_03/2055030d1ee271b9d934ed61aef1ce6a_640x640.jpeg

@RP, your beers are great, don't get me wrong, but it's strange not to have Czech, Belgian, German beer in the supermarkets.

[Mirek]

Heh, Bohemia = largest part of Czech Republic. Funny to see such name of a beer made in Portugal :) On the other hand we have Modrý Portugal (Blauer Portugieser) wine here (it's originally Austrian grape with such strange name) :D

[AndyRAC]

Conwy Brewery have nice selection of proper ales and IPAs - far nicer than the more popular fizzy cr@p that people get served.

[AnttiL]

Heh, Bohemia = largest part of Czech Republic. Funny to see such name of a beer made in Portugal
Bohemian Pilseners were the first pale lagers, which is the beer style 95% of all beer is nowadays, probably a reference to that.

It's a shame that big beer countries like Belgium and USA don't have a rally. But if Neuville wins the title, I'll toast that with a trappist ale.

Pint of bitter for Wales, a baltic porter for Poland, some sahti for Finland (although that might get dangerous). And don't get me started on Germany!

[skarderud]

They dont have beer in USA, they have some water called "budweiser".....

Sent fra min XP7700 via Tapatalk

[Rallyper]

In Finland it´s only Olvi Tupplapukki 8,5% ...

[Mirek]

Bohemian Pilseners were the first pale lagers, which is the beer style 95% of all beer is nowadays, probably a reference to that.

It's a shame that big beer countries like Belgium and USA don't have a rally. But if Neuville wins the title, I'll toast that with a trappist ale.

Pint of bitter for Wales, a baltic porter for Poland, some sahti for Finland (although that might get dangerous). And don't get me started on Germany!

I know ;)

Here our beer market is transforming pretty quickly. In the past it was only Pilsner type beer but now there are dozens of small breweries growing every year preparing all sort of stuff one can imagine and it's pretty popular among the people. Here in Prague pubs with 10 and more taps are common thing. And I like it too. It brings way more variety and quality.

Still I plan to bring a lot of beer stuff from Ypres... as usually :)


They dont have beer in USA, they have some water called "budweiser".....

Just like in many other countries the most common stuff isn't of high quality but they have a lot of way better beers in USA than the water...

By the way sadly original Czech Budweiser (Budweiser = of Budějovice in German language) isn't very good beer either. At least I don't like it. But it's same with most of the big brands here such as Staropramen or Gambrinus. Pilsner Urquel is the only of the big ones which I like but not from a can! There is really a massive difference between Pilsner Urquel from steel tank and from can (bottle is better than can but worse than from keg and the way best is from tank).

By the way is this Czech speciality or are restaurants anywhere else also using large steel tanks for beer instead of kegs? I don't say it's everywhere but at least pretty common among Pilsner Urquel restaurants in CZ.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Vodka.

[BigWorm]

I know ;)

Here our beer market is transforming pretty quickly. In the past it was only Pilsner type beer but now there are dozens of small breweries growing every year preparing all sort of stuff one can imagine and it's pretty popular among the people. Here in Prague pubs with 10 and more taps are common thing. And I like it too. It brings way more variety and quality.

Still I plan to bring a lot of beer stuff from Ypres... as usually :)



Just like in many other countries the most common stuff isn't of high quality but they have a lot of way better beers in USA than the water...

By the way sadly original Czech Budweiser (Budweiser = of Budějovice in German language) isn't very good beer either. At least I don't like it. But it's same with most of the big brands here such as Staropramen or Gambrinus. Pilsner Urquel is the only of the big ones which I like but not from a can! There is really a massive difference between Pilsner Urquel from steel tank and from can (bottle is better than can but worse than from keg and the way best is from tank).

By the way is this Czech speciality or are restaurants anywhere else also using large steel tanks for beer instead of kegs? I don't say it's everywhere but at least pretty common among Pilsner Urquel restaurants in CZ.

Applies for most beer I think

[EstWRC]

the steering wheels of different teams https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-gFkNx8FLA

[onemanband]

1342

[Watson]

the steering wheels of different teams https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-gFkNx8FLA

The Hyundai and M-Sport wheels look terribly crowded.

[itix]

Bohemian Pilseners were the first pale lagers, which is the beer style 95% of all beer is nowadays, probably a reference to that.

It's a shame that big beer countries like Belgium and USA don't have a rally. But if Neuville wins the title, I'll toast that with a trappist ale.

Pint of bitter for Wales, a baltic porter for Poland, some sahti for Finland (although that might get dangerous). And don't get me started on Germany!
Trappist beer, mmmm.

I used to love Czech beer but have moved onto micro breweries and trappists.

Czech beer is still my preferred lager though. Czech beer in Czech Republic is so cheap it is ridiculous. The cost of living is less than half of that in sweden, and comparable beer is 7 times cheaper... And you get a bigger glass too.

Worst beer in the world is Sofiero, closely followed by Heineken.

[itix]

They dont have beer in USA, they have some water called "budweiser".....

Sent fra min XP7700 via Tapatalk
American beer is the same as having sex in a canoe...

Both are fucking close to water ;)

[Watson]

American beer is the same as having sex in a canoe...

Both are fucking close to water ;)
It's funny how they stuff their food with fat, sugar, salt and other taste intensifiers but their beer feels like a little breeze of nothing in your throat.

[Mintexmemory]

Ichnusa is acceptable on a hot dusty Sardinian stage.

[AnttiL]

It's funny how they stuff their food with fat, sugar, salt and other taste intensifiers but their beer feels like a little breeze of nothing in your throat.
If a beer style has "American" in front of it, it stands for "stuffed with hops". You just need to find the correct brands. Macro lagers are pretty much the same everywhere in the world, but craft beers have some diversity. And flavor.

[EstWRC]

portuguese guys are you okey? massive forest fires in your country :(

[Rally Power]

portuguese guys are you okey? massive forest fires in your country :(

Thanks EstWRC. I believe we’re all ok, as most of us are from the North and the affected region is a bit far. Still, the whole nation is at shock. We’re sadly used to forest fires and to have one or two fatalities every summer but not to a tragedy of this scale, affecting so many people in such a violent way. Time to sorrow the victims, support the survivors and hope it won’t happen again.

[EstWRC]

good to hear that you are okay.

[Rally Power]

Thanks again mate. Hopefully Andre, Flying Tuga and the others guys also are.

[Rallyper]

Yeah, this really is a serious disaster. And it comes to me the low weight of our discussion on rallies and conditions on ERC topic. Just take care all portugese friends.
(But I do like Finland WRC round best of all)

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDBQFIOXgAEZlOr.jpg

[Watson]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDBQFIOXgAEZlOr.jpg
Is that his house? Screw it I'm moving to Finland.

[pantealex]

Is that his house? Screw it I'm moving to Finland.

Summer cottage, his house is much bigger ;)

[SubaruNorway]

Summer cottage, his house is much bigger ;)

Looks modest, I'm only 12 square meters short on a lousy mechanics salary ;)
https://translate.google.no/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.seiska.fi%2FUutiset%2FTassa-on-Maisan-ja-Jari-Matti-Latvalan-uusi-torppa-kuvat%2F1111494&edit-text=

[Watson]

Summer cottage, his house is much bigger ;)

This reminds me:

https://youtu.be/ua1FAlHt_Ys

[pantealex]

Looks modest, I'm only 12 square meters short on a lousy mechanics salary ;)
https://translate.google.no/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.seiska.fi%2FUutiset%2FTassa-on-Maisan-ja-Jari-Matti-Latvalan-uusi-torppa-kuvat%2F1111494&edit-text=

actually their city house is quite normal.

[itix]

Now my son can be sebastian loeb as well :D
https://www.boutique-loeb.com/enfant/127-pyjama-bebe-peugeot-sport-0000000001270.html

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Pat Doran crashes valuable Group B Ford RS200 ! :disturb:

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/goodwood-festival-speed-2017/watch-ford-rs200-evo-2-crashes-goodwood

[Franky]

People, relax. Save your nerves, still a long way to go. Have a nice good drink and enjoy the summer (or winter for the guys on the other half of this sphere)

[Rallyper]

No relax possible. Countdown for Rally Finland already started. ;)

[AL14]

https://www.facebook.com/EpicRallyTribe2.0/posts/695452497319757

Look at this.

ACI warned a punch of fans to not transmit live facebook of Rally San Marino because they have not the rights. And that is valid also for the video post event.
They did it through a private profile of the person who manage their website.

How stupid is that?

[Simmi]

If there is a TV deal in place or anyone is paying the ACI money for coverage then it's not stupid.

It's short-sighted I would say. And by that I mean it's probably not in the best interests of the sport.

The Epic Rally Tribe guys have a point in that they are providing a service that the organisers can't or won't. I don't know the details of their contracts though so no point to speculate.

I've said before that if I ran a series I would try to empower fans, or groups of fans, to try and create content.

[A FONDO]

http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/fa85cc6af11d559c37956dd4b5e985c1.jpg

http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/01103d9632acc13345771e96996c6fe4.jpg

http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/ea36187e54bc899621ecc422bc4435e1.jpg

[EstWRC]

rally poland thread is closed and its painful for me to watch this again :p but anyway here is the difference between Neuville and Tänak at that corner

https://www.upload.ee/image/7240963/Screen_Shot_2017-07-18_at_15.07.08_.png
https://www.upload.ee/image/7240968/Screen_Shot_2017-07-18_at_15.07.50_.png

[br21]

[QUOTE=EstWRC;1147244]rally poland thread is closed and its painful for me to watch this again :p but anyway here is the difference between Neuville and Tänak at that corner

we've been testing on that stage yesterday, still tricky places as it's stilly quite muddy.

[Simmi]

rally poland thread is closed and its painful for me to watch this again :p but anyway here is the difference between Neuville and Tänak at that corner

https://www.upload.ee/image/7240963/Screen_Shot_2017-07-18_at_15.07.08_.png
https://www.upload.ee/image/7240968/Screen_Shot_2017-07-18_at_15.07.50_.png

34 kph extra entry speed will do that I guess. Reminds me of the great phrase - "the speed was good, the corner was too tight!"

[denkimi]

If there is a TV deal in place or anyone is paying the ACI money for coverage then it's not stupid.

It's short-sighted I would say. And by that I mean it's probably not in the best interests of the sport.

The Epic Rally Tribe guys have a point in that they are providing a service that the organisers can't or won't. I don't know the details of their contracts though so no point to speculate.

I've said before that if I ran a series I would try to empower fans, or groups of fans, to try and create content.
it doesn't matter who payed or not. unless you make people sign a contract, they have every right to broadcast whatever they want.

in some places, like f1, buying an entry card counts as that contract. but you can't do that so simple in rally, since it's not on private property and you can't confirm if someone bought a ticket.

[Rallyper]

Don´t forget the LIVE Bar Talk at Trattoria Sokos Hotel at Paviljonki Service Park Thursday 15.00. Will you be there?

Subjects:

- Is Toyota WRC entrance a success? (Would love N.O.T. to be in)
- Who wins Rally Finlaand 2017?
- Will Seb wine about starting position or not.
- Meeke - will he reach finish?
tz. etz.

See you guys. I´ll be wearing a orange Richard Burns Foundation T-shirt and a beer in my hand.

[pantealex]

Don´t forget the LIVE Bar Talk at Trattoria Sokos Hotel at Paviljonki Service Park Thursday 15.00. Will you be there?

Subjects:

- Is Toyota WRC entrance a success? (Would love N.O.T. to be in)
- Who wins Rally Finlaand 2017?
- Will Seb wine about starting position or not.
- Meeke - will he reach finish?
tz. etz.

See you guys. I´ll be wearing a orange Richard Burns Foundation T-shirt and a beer in my hand.

and I will be next to him, probably wearing some my company clothes (PanteAlex)

[racerx1979]

If near the service park I'll stop by to say hi and meet you guys.

[AL14]

See you guys. I´ll be wearing a orange Richard Burns Foundation T-shirt and a beer in my hand.


and I will be next to him, probably wearing some my company clothes (PanteAlex)

Enjoy the rally e nd the beers mates. Cheers.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Citroen Racing considers new performance road car line..
https://t.co/QzoquDRjTJ https://t.co/SmlMtWsQW7

Yeah, right.

[EstWRC]

Things will get very interesting now in championship. Ogier must now really up his game pace wise...Even Lappi has more stage wins now than him...no doubt that Ogier has been the smarter one but no doubt that Neuville has been the faster one...If Neuville doesnt bin it in next few rallies then this smart driving to third or fourth place from Ogier isnt enough anymore if Neuville finishes higher. Both had amazing season end last year.

Tänak and Latvala are in the best seats now IMO...they will just mind their own business and watch as these two leaders fight and if they both bin it then these two are right back in the hunt again.

[rhm]

Jumping ahead bit, but how do you think the drivers will approach Rally GB and especially Rally Australia if they're very close in the championship.

Running first on the road last year seemed quite difficult in Australia. If you can manage the points to be just one or two behind after Rally GB would that be better than leading going into the final round?

Another consideration is the dust too.

Been a long time since we've seriously had to consider trying to manipulate the running order for an advantage.

[Munkvy]

Jumping ahead bit, but how do you think the drivers will approach Rally GB and especially Rally Australia if they're very close in the championship.

Running first on the road last year seemed quite difficult in Australia. If you can manage the points to be just one or two behind after Rally GB would that be better than leading going into the final round?

Another consideration is the dust too.

Been a long time since we've seriously had to consider trying to manipulate the running order for an advantage.

It's a bit of a sign as to how exciting the combination of getting rid of VW and changing the cars has made the WRC!

[KiwiWRCfan]

Sorry to disappoint the drinkers of the annual special edition Rally Deutschland wine but due to an extremely small harvest this year there will be no 2017 WRC vintage.

[mknight]

Sorry to disappoint the drinkers of the annual special edition Rally Deutschland wine but due to an extremely small harvest this year there will be no 2017 WRC vintage.

Hmm I did a highly scientific google search.

About 6 wine clusters per bottle and about 24 clusters per plant gives you 4 bottles per wine

So the WRC-only harvest:

- Hanninen at same place as Neuville and Lappi but the only one to got as far up. I estimate 5 plants.
- Mikkelsen at Mittlemosell II, 2 plants
- Sordo didn't seem to hit any wine (some fail)

7 plants * 4 = 28 bottles.

Not that bad is it.

[stefanvv]

The grape at this stage is too sour, they must add sugar to it to reach the desired grade, from the sugar you might have bad handover. The team doctor says don't drink too much of this wine, the team boss says it might also affect your stage times.

[sollitt]

Hmm I did a highly scientific google search.

About 6 wine clusters per bottle and about 24 clusters per plant gives you 4 bottles per wine

Only if you want cheap nasty wine. Norm for a quality vino is one bottle per vine.

[SubaruNorway]

Did a some Formula Offroad filming last weekend if you need an excuse to open a beer and watch some crazy motorsport, at one point in the video it looks like a scene from Jurassic Park when Tor-Egil Thorland drives back out from the bushes after rolling 3-4 times!;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS0biY90btg

[AnttiL]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DILQ_leXkAEFw7s.jpg:large

Kalle Rovanperä finally chose what car he will drive in Wales

[Jinu13]

Citroen Racing considers new performance road car line..
https://t.co/QzoquDRjTJ https://t.co/SmlMtWsQW7

Yeah, right.

It's a very cute car but I couldn't trust the handling to cope with the muppets on UK roads :)

[dimviii]

photos must be from previous weekend from Argentina

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIVS7yVUIAAq4Nd.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIVS7yjVoAA1Aoe.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIVS7yYUIAE4QaW.jpg

[Mirek]

People's stupidity has no limits...

[MartijnS]

Video of the spot: https://www.facebook.com/locosdelrally/videos/1141018102665931/

[N.O.T]

photos must be from previous weekend from Argentina

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIVS7yVUIAAq4Nd.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIVS7yjVoAA1Aoe.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIVS7yYUIAE4QaW.jpg

low life latin americans... their life worth less than that of a sick mouse.

[steve.mandzij]

low life latin americans... their life worth less than that of a sick mouse.Hnggg

It's so hard to hold my words back.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[N.O.T]

Hnggg

It's so hard to hold my words back.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

why ? where am i wrong ? you will not see such images even in countries of the eastern europe where rally fans are drunk...

[the sniper]

The only thing that surprises me is that you can see in the bottom picture that there's a Police officer stood with them! What's the point in him being there if it's not to stop stuff like that...?

[sonnybobiche]

And yet, no deaths, not even a single reported injury. It's almost as if the actual numerical risk of standing close to the road on the inside of a corner or along a straight is hugely overstated... Every rally fan understood this until about 10 years ago. Then suddenly everybody got all safety-crazy, damn any consequences to the sport. Well actually, not everybody, mostly older guys who had already enjoyed the less safety-obsessed days and now look down from their little ivory tower onto those foolish kids who actually want to enjoy the sport exactly the same way their forebears did for decades.

[N.O.T]

And yet, no deaths, not even a single reported injury. It's almost as if the actual numerical risk of standing close to the road on the inside of a corner or along a straight is hugely overstated... Every rally fan understood this until about 10 years ago. Then suddenly everybody got all safety-crazy, damn any consequences to the sport. Well actually, not everybody, mostly older guys who had already enjoyed the less safety-obsessed days and now look down from their little ivory tower onto those foolish kids who actually want to enjoy the sport exactly the same way their forebears did for decades.

taking selfies while not having your eyes on the car or the road is called enjoy the sport ??

let me tell you something kid... its those retarded low lifes to blame for the stupid worthless safety regulations we have now...

[AL14]

And yet, no deaths, not even a single reported injury. It's almost as if the actual numerical risk of standing close to the road on the inside of a corner or along a straight is hugely overstated... Every rally fan understood this until about 10 years ago. Then suddenly everybody got all safety-crazy, damn any consequences to the sport. Well actually, not everybody, mostly older guys who had already enjoyed the less safety-obsessed days and now look down from their little ivory tower onto those foolish kids who actually want to enjoy the sport exactly the same way their forebears did for decades.

Every time I think I've read the silliest post but some of you guys are still able to amaze me.

[sonnybobiche]

taking selfies while not having your eyes on the car or the road is called enjoy the sport ??

let me tell you something kid... its those retarded low lifes to blame for the stupid worthless safety regulations we have now...

Seems to me like the stupid worthless safety regulations we have now have literally nothing to do with those retarded low lifes, since none of them were reported dead or injured in recent years and yet the regulations keep piling on.

The one guy who died this year had a laser-like focus on the car as it clobbered him. Much good that did.

Call me silly all you want but nobody has any actual logical refutations to offer. Just more of the same "common wisdom". I need a beer.

[racerx1979]

The last picture really got me. As a driver you only have a few options in such a scenario. To make the car slide further to the right to avoid these dipshits one would have to accelerate if mid-corner believe it or not. Letting of of the gas or braking will cause the car to plow straight in and acceleration this late in the game would only cause a larger faster impact. I'm assuming these uneducated people moved out of the way to avoid the car or the car was already in the process of going wide in the corner. I would just stop the rally as a driver at this point... way too dangerous. Force the spectators to go home... rally canceled.

[AnttiL]

And yet, no deaths, not even a single reported injury. It's almost as if the actual numerical risk of standing close to the road on the inside of a corner or along a straight is hugely overstated... .

https://youtu.be/cX4626zluoo?t=10m55s
https://youtu.be/cdHeIP5fMbE?t=16s

Two recent examples showing that the inside of a corner can be also dangerous.

[sonnybobiche]

https://youtu.be/cX4626zluoo?t=10m55s
https://youtu.be/cdHeIP5fMbE?t=16s

Two recent examples showing that the inside of a corner can be also dangerous.

OK, so we're saying that the outside is dangerous, the straights are dangerous, and the inside is dangerous. So everything is dangerous, so what place is safe to spectate from? Like, where do you think this spectator safety crusade ends? Do you honestly believe that spectators will always be allowed to be present in one form or another? Do you think that in a few years' time they will still be allowed to help push cars out of the ditch/snowbank as they do now?

This mindless obsession with safety at any cost is just not good for the sport, that's the only point I'm really making. You guys think that pushing spectators further and further back and limiting spectator zones more and more only increases safety, but it has negative consequences too. Nobody wants to watch from those areas. So there's less interest from the fans, fewer new fans, and an overall decline in the popularity of the sport.

It's a tradeoff, and you can't pretend it isn't one.

[racerx1979]

@sonnybobiche Which rally did you last spectate?

Do you think it's a good idea to take a selfie on the inside of a corner when a car is coming at you full speed?

[N.O.T]

@sonnybobiche Which rally did you last spectate?

Do you think it's a good idea to take a selfie on the inside of a corner when a car is coming at you full speed?

probably in a sewage-country where the dream of every dog living there is to border jump into the US...

what do you expect from a person that has as a standard of safety that none died... evolution of every species is achieved through prevention of death... but for latin americans that feed on mud that is not the case it seems.

[steve.mandzij]

probably in a sewage-country where the dream of every dog living there is to border jump into the US...

what do you expect from a person that has as a standard of safety that none died... evolution of every species is achieved through prevention of death... but for latin americans that feed on mud that is not the case it seems.I feed on bread, fyi, and there's no reason why an Argentine would "border jump" to the US.

You make a valid point and those people are clearly super ignorant, but there's no need to sling insults around, especially not when you generalize an entire continent, basically.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[sonnybobiche]

probably in a sewage-country where the dream of every dog living there is to border jump into the US...

what do you expect from a person that has as a standard of safety that none died... evolution of every species is achieved through prevention of death... but for latin americans that feed on mud that is not the case it seems.

Ah yes, all those great explorers and innovators that pushed Western civilization forward. How foolish of them not to know that it's actually safety, personal safety above all that's important! I'm American myself, but my parents were mud eaters and I spent some of my formative years eating mud, I suppose. One thing it did teach me is that it's perfectly possible to let people be responsible for their own lives. I have lots of faith in the ability of the common man to weigh risks and benefits for himself, and I have very little faith in the ability of the Mandarins to do it for him.

I don't understand how you rationalize the need for such nannyism today, given that everything was orders of magnitude less safe in the past, yet there was very little difference in terms of actual outcomes. I guess some people decide to switch off that rational part of their brain when they talk about safety. More important to just parrot what everyone else is saying.

[N.O.T]

Ah yes, all those great explorers and innovators that pushed Western civilization forward. How foolish of them not to know that it's actually safety, personal safety above all that's important! I'm American myself, but my parents were mud eaters and I spent some of my formative years eating mud, I suppose. One thing it did teach me is that it's perfectly possible to let people be responsible for their own lives. I have lots of faith in the ability of the common man to weigh risks and benefits for himself, and I have very little faith in the ability of the Mandarins to do it for him.

I don't understand how you rationalize the need for such nannyism today, given that everything was orders of magnitude less safe in the past, yet there was very little difference in terms of actual outcomes. I guess some people decide to switch off that rational part of their brain when they talk about safety. More important to just parrot what everyone else is saying.

Thats why people voted for Trump...

Everyone is responsible for their own lives yes but...

did you ask the driver if he wants to dismember those less than humans ?
did you ask the tax payer or the rally organiser if he wants to pay for hospitalizing those less than humans ?
did you ask the spectators if they would like to wait for hours on a cancelled stage ?
did you ask the the rest of the spectators if they would be ok seeing 2 lifeless corpses on their outing to enjoy a rally ?

very few things in life have no consequences to other people as well... but being an ancestor of mud eaters i think its hard to understand.

[Tarmop]

+ frightening the driver, which could lead (in best case scenario) to time loss because of going out of ideal trajectory or worse, a crash, which can injure/kill the car, occupants or spectators. They have to thank luck, there`s nothing else.

[Rallyper]

To end this discussion up; that behavour is the worst I´ve ever seen and should be stopped. No other arguments in favour for doing that shouldn´t even be mentioned. A BIG warning to organizers. Watch and take action!

[janvanvurpa]

low life latin americans... their life worth less than that of a sick mouse.

Their lives are worth exactly the same as your life.
And yes, they are idiots..
But well pretty clear that so are you.

[N.O.T]

Their lives are worth exactly the same as your life.


No they are not... grow up.

[janvanvurpa]

No they are not... grow up.

They are worth every bit as much as you.
I grew up a long time ago...Got to be a man to do serious motorsport..
Time you did..

And I don't even know them...

[leighton323]

https://youtu.be/YZvhEQaVk_4?t=1319

[KiwiWRCfan]

10 year ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_0Bqg8bHZI
Closest ever WRC win at the time

[racerx1979]

Gronholm always amazing to watch!

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJBoGXUW4AAjBWq.jpg

[steve.mandzij]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJBoGXUW4AAjBWq.jpgI thought Miikka Antilla had the most starts?

Also, it's nice to see Latvala has the highest number of starts of any current WRC driver :)

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[dimviii]

maybe Antilla has the most wrc starts.

[sonnybobiche]

maybe Antilla has the most wrc starts.

Yep, 190 WRC starts.

[AnttiL]

maybe Antilla has the most wrc starts.

Anttila, not Antilla ;)

[Mirek]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJBoGXUW4AAjBWq.jpg

I would take the statistics easy. I don't think they were able to collect everything from all around the globe for dozens of years. You can see a lot of Czech names but that's likely because Czech rally history is better documented in the database (even plenty of very small local events are there).

[focus206]

I would take the statistics easy. I don't think they were able to collect everything from all around the globe for dozens of years. You can see a lot of Czech names but that's likely because Czech rally history is better documented in the database (even plenty of very small local events are there).

For sure Blomqvist and Jonsson have many more starts, considering vast majority of Swedish championship history is missing.

[AL14]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJBoGXUW4AAjBWq.jpg

Finally something where we are first! Beer for everyone! We have to celebrate!

[dimviii]

watch how fast suspension works at a kerb
https://twitter.com/TotalRacingENG/status/904263830318002178

[dimviii]

lol at Mads
https://twitter.com/MadsOstberg/status/908381167484915713

[giu canbera]

Recommendations please.. Any WRC related podcast? I only watch Kitchen's Table.. IDK much stuff. Theres almost no internet signals here in my cave hehe

[SubaruNorway]

Recommendations please.. Any WRC related podcast? I only watch Kitchen's Table.. IDK much stuff. Theres almost no internet signals here in my cave hehe
Absolute Rally is good, Autosport also has a long feature on McRae this week, both on Podbean

[KiwiWRCfan]

Recommendations please.. Any WRC related podcast? I only watch Kitchen's Table.. IDK much stuff. Theres almost no internet signals here in my cave hehe
Check back thru WRC.com podcasts history for Drivers & Team Manager interviews. Items called "Regroup" tend to be very interesting http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/media/podcasts/page/114--80--.html

[giu canbera]

That was quick! Tnx guys! Already listening hehe

[BleAivano]

apparently two spectators killed at a tarmac rally in Denmark today. The driver is supposed to have lost control
of his vehicle (obviously) in a bend/corner.

https://www.bt.dk/motorsport/to-unge-draebt-under-rallyloeb-i-randers
https://www.bt.dk/motorsport/sport-efter-doedsulykken-i-randers-nu-skal-ulykken-undersoeges
http://amtsavisen.dk/randers/To-personer-draebt-under-rallyloeb-i-Randers/artikel/356579

[RallyTyger]

apparently two spectators killed at a tarmac rally in Denmark today. The driver is supposed to have lost control
of his vehicle (obviously) in a bend/corner.

https://www.bt.dk/motorsport/to-unge-draebt-under-rallyloeb-i-randers
https://www.bt.dk/motorsport/sport-efter-doedsulykken-i-randers-nu-skal-ulykken-undersoeges
http://amtsavisen.dk/randers/To-personer-draebt-under-rallyloeb-i-Randers/artikel/356579

Actually it was 2 marshals getting killed. Appearantly the car, a porsche, had a puncture and the drive lost control on a straight section of the track, hitting the marshals

[EstWRC]

12 years already since a huge loss for estonian motorsport (and worldwide) and Markko Märtin fans...R.I.P Michael Park

[AnttiL]

12 years already since a huge loss for estonian motorsport (and worldwide) and Markko Märtin fans...R.I.P Michael Park

and 2x12 years since Roger Freeth passed away.

so, now we're having the longest time period ever of no top level WRC driver/co-driver fatalities?

[dimviii]

and 2x12 years since Roger Freeth passed away.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKCOs3EWkAAIDJf.jpg

[smokingjoe]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKCOs3EWkAAIDJf.jpg

"i'm not a gynacologist, but i'll take a look"
RIP, Dr Roj

[AnttiL]

I submitted Rally Finland maps 2000-2008 to rally-maps.com. Will start doing the 90's next week. https://www.rally-maps.com/Rally-Finland-2000

[AnttiL]

I submitted Rally Finland maps 2000-2008 to rally-maps.com. Will start doing the 90's next week. https://www.rally-maps.com/Rally-Finland-2000

If anyone's interested, there's now maps from 1993 onwards. https://www.rally-maps.com/Rally-Finland-1993

[KiwiWRCfan]

Video stream from Rally Legend https://www.facebook.com/EpicRallyTribe2.0/videos/735386043326402/
Feel free to raise a glass to every World Champion you see

Should be live streaming again from 7pm Sanmarino time

[Jinu13]

I hope there's a few, I need a good beer right now!

[giu canbera]

Little doubt here.
WRC cars are production based cars right?
Nascar/ USA's SuperTrucks, Sprintcars, etc... are big rollcages with pannels, right?

Are These rollcage+pannels cars something that could do rally? Cuz it looks cheaper. IDK if it could be lighter.. But anyway. Is it possible? Or its not safe enough for possible crashes and flips ?

[racerx1979]

No to most of those.

In the states a good buddy of mine who has raced Rally and RallyCross is now racing a Polaris RZR 1000 Turbo in the regional California rally series. These little open wheel cars are amazing, handle well and need little maintenance. He spent roughly 25k on his and has won overall in one of the rallies and was leading overall in the second rally until he broke his steering.

[Mirek]

Technically space frame-based cars can easily do rallying and they can do that better than the actual rallycars based on stock bodyshells. That's only a limitation, not an advantage.

[Zeakiwi]

Most of the T1 class vehicles in the Rally Raid scene are tubular frame vehicles with coverings.

https://youtu.be/sJw-Jt1OfY8 2011 old Australian V8 race car crash test

https://youtu.be/Z2yBqv1LcCk Geiser track build

Sprint car crash testing into concrete wall https://youtu.be/WOsoNGwDTcg

https://youtu.be/1FAqPELLFGQ Nascar - automotive tech series - chassis ins[ection.

https://youtu.be/1FAqPELLFGQ (Dallara indy car)

[AnttiL]

Are These rollcage+pannels cars something that could do rally? Cuz it looks cheaper. IDK if it could be lighter.. But anyway. Is it possible? Or its not safe enough for possible crashes and flips ?
https://www.wallsauce.com/uploads/wallsauce-com/images/products/web/Mcklein/large/860119mc-toivonen-14-xl.jpg
https://img.emc.gs/224588f1b8a6ba7d5eb23a07c1a7d433f8a3e514/687474703a2f2f7777772e696c62652e636f6d2f66696c6573 2f6174746163682f6e65772f32303136303231342f32303530 3930333631362f373039323938333833372f37353136333534 3136332f623930346566633631356434346234633765623434 35316430316261633831622e6a7067/

[Mirek]

Was the 31 years old picture meant as an argument against space frame-based cars?

[AnttiL]

Just replying the question. It has been done, it was expensive and it was not safe. But yeah, maybe they could do it better today? Not sure if it would be cheaper.

[AnttiL]

If you're interested in seeing how different Rally Finland stages look like, I set up this list of onboard videos found from youtube, for different stages, running directions and versions. There's also the second tab for videos from national rallies which include roads used in Rally Finland, with a map link as well.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQU-CZwEhk0-Mw4oFTkvlvlnIK6vLd6N0_GPjK0Ysk7Dfe3UgvCpMAjbf8FJzW SzSazRUZ-LrsCQ-JS/pubhtml#

[Mirek]

Just replying the question. It has been done, it was expensive and it was not safe. But yeah, maybe they could do it better today? Not sure if it would be cheaper.

Of course it would be completely different - even at that time if safety was the priority.

Space-frame allows to create much safer and overall better design than anything production based because the production base comes with a lot of compromises made for passenger space, price, production process, different safety modus operandi etc. Space-frame can be designed 100% for the purpose it serves, i.e. it takes no handicaps from serial production. And it can be also cheaper - for sure. The reason why the cars were expensive was not in using space-frame.

[giu canbera]

but its not interesting for manufacturers, right?
from what I've read Ford-Chevy-Toyota are pretty satisfied with "their bubbles" in Nascar.
But Murica is a weird place... I know

[Mirek]

Frankly I don't see a reason why manufacturers would want to block such idea if FIA ever allowed it.

For manufacturer it's always good when it doesn't need to change anything in serial production because of marketing activities like rallying, i.e. if the rally car is 0% based on production model it's only good for them.

[AnttiL]

But the cars need to look like road models, right? Other than that, are there really any parts that are the same on a road car and a current WRC car other than small details like lights and door handles?

[giu canbera]

tbh It'd be pretty rad if my Fiesta had these '17 huge rear wings and all those aero parts. I love those things. I really wouldnt care if people on the streets think "Oh, this is ridiculous" haha I just want a WRC car haha 4wd please

[Rallyper]

Frankly I don't see a reason why manufacturers would want to block such idea if FIA ever allowed it.

For manufacturer it's always good when it doesn't need to change anything in serial production because of marketing activities like rallying, i.e. if the rally car is 0% based on production model it's only good for them.

I hope FIA never comes up with such proposition. I´d rather go back to step one. More standard productionlike and less parts i Kevlar, however big wing and big soundlevel always attract all kinds of people no matter power.

Lets see what elecrifying will give (hope not, but a development hard to stop I think)

[pantealex]

But the cars need to look like road models, right? Other than that, are there really any parts that are the same on a road car and a current WRC car other than small details like lights and door handles?

Roof and tailgate probably.
and many things under body panels (wheel base is same as production model, so there is many parts which are mandatory by rules)

[Mirek]

I hope FIA never comes up with such proposition. I´d rather go back to step one. More standard productionlike and less parts i Kevlar, however big wing and big soundlevel always attract all kinds of people no matter power.

Lets see what elecrifying will give (hope not, but a development hard to stop I think)

Per, the world changed from 1990'. The car industry is very different today than it used to be. Just get used to it. It won't get back because some people have nice memories.

Frankly - why is it so much "worse" to build the car as a space-frame purpose built unit which from outside looks like a serial one than to build a purpose-built car limited by serial bodyshell when the car also has very little to do with the serial one? I don't see any benefit for anyone.

[Rallyper]

I threw in a torch! Admit that. However we talk a sport we all love. No matter how much the world changed, why should the sport we all love change radically? We all love competition. And competition can be made with much more less special tuning, building and components in kevlar and titanium.

[Mrpengski]

Roof and tailgate probably.
and many things under body panels (wheel base is same as production model, so there is many parts which are mandatory by rules)

Door handles, yes. None of the current WRC cars have lights from the standard car, except maybe just the tail light lenses in some cases.

Roof as part of bodyshell is standard, with holes cut into it obviously. Bonnet and tail gate are standard parts modified in a similar manner. Other than that, there should not be a single, standard OEM part on these cars. I guess some teams use/used the standard wiper stalk. The wheelbase is defined by the standard car, but there is a tolerance, so will not be the same as standard in the end. There is absolutely no OEM part between the bodyshell and the ground.

Here is my view on space frame "silhouette cars":
- To make it as safe or safer than standard bodyshell, no problem.
- To make it lighter, somewhat challenging.
- To make it more cost effective, probably not possible.

The biggest problem is restrictions on various reference points and how far away they can move from standard points. At this point, we might as well keep the standard bodyshell, since it does a pretty good job anyway. And even in recent memory, committed manufacturers can and will still do a special run of their road cars. Aside from bigger and stronger engine, no one buying the road cars would even notice any difference, but if the bodyshell was tweaked slightly to suit the design of the race car better, then that's a competitive advantage gained. Of course, that's nothing compared to the "homologation specialle" of days gone by, but I think it's cool that some still go the distance.

[GravelBen]

Per, the world changed from 1990'. The car industry is very different today than it used to be. Just get used to it. It won't get back because some people have nice memories.

Frankly - why is it so much "worse" to build the car as a space-frame purpose built unit which from outside looks like a serial one than to build a purpose-built car limited by serial bodyshell when the car also has very little to do with the serial one? I don't see any benefit for anyone.

As a Subaru owner I'd say rally cars being production-based used to have a benefit for the owner of the production car, which was much better as a result of rally-inspired development etc. Its not just about looking the same.

The problem for the manufacturers is the portion of the market that appreciates those things is quite small, especially in places where most people are jammed together in cities without interesting roads to drive on. So they like to make cars for the majority and focus on boring things like fuel economy instead of how they drive.

[the sniper]

Frankly - why is it so much "worse" to build the car as a space-frame purpose built unit which from outside looks like a serial one than to build a purpose-built car limited by serial bodyshell when the car also has very little to do with the serial one? I don't see any benefit for anyone.

Personally I like production based rally/racing cars sharing the 'DNA' of the manufacturer/design/model they're born out of. I think it's important. At their core, they're the same car as any other that roles down that model's BIW production line, but a WRC car say gets chosen at birth to live a more interesting life!

There's just too much detachment from the manufacturer/brand and the real world product with a space-frame car for my liking...

[racerx1979]

Well said! Which is what makes rally cars so special.

[giu canbera]

haha I was talking with a friend here... If Subaru creates a crowdfunding project for a WRC return, how many (in percentage) Rally fans would probably donate? Cuz I think it'd be around.. 90% of Rally fans and the goal would be achieved in a few days haha

[Indreq]

haha I was talking with a friend here... If Subaru creates a crowdfunding project for a WRC return, how many (in percentage) Rally fans would probably donate? Cuz I think it'd be around.. 90% of Rally fans and the goal would be achieved in a few days haha

Subaru doesnt have suitable base model in their range at the moment. They need to crowdfund development of new model first.

[Jinu13]

haha I was talking with a friend here... If Subaru creates a crowdfunding project for a WRC return, how many (in percentage) Rally fans would probably donate? Cuz I think it'd be around.. 90% of Rally fans and the goal would be achieved in a few days haha

Dang, there goes my savings. I miss that car. But before my bank manager grills me, last time I checked the didn't do a teeny hatchback version.

[ESTR]

Subaru doesnt have suitable base model in their range at the moment. They need to crowdfund development of new model first.

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/the-subaru-viziv-performance-is-a-next-gen-wrx-muscle-fest/

Maybe this one, haha

[focus206]

Cuz I think it'd be around.. 90% of Rally fans and the goal would be achieved in a few days haha

Why? In most places Subaru is not seen as the most legendary manufacturer of rally cars of all times as it is seen in the USA (and somewhere else I guess). Hypotetically speaking, why would fans crowdfund more Subaru rather than, let's say, Opel, Audi or Mitsubishi?

[Mirek]

I don't see a reason why anyone shall crowdfund some else's marketing tool at all.

[L555MAT]

In the UK id say Subaru is certainly most associated with rallying, even now after leaving the wrc for several years. Audi will never return as rallying is not their brand image, a close friend of mine has a new rs5 and didnt even know about group b rallying until a few weeks ago.