Rally Discussion and Bar Talk Thread

[AnttiL]

If Tänak goes to Toyota, my guess is that the new topclass/rally1 from 2025 is Rally2 cars.
Its no point having 1,5 team in a world championship.

And, its time to let private tuners have the possibility to homologate new parts, to make those rally2's that is not up there better.
Manufacturers involvement has to end if rally as we know it can survive.

Simple, and sad, as that.

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What has this to do with Tänak's decision :D

[skarderud]

What has this to do with Tänak's decision :DHyundai lose even more and quit, M-sport has nothing to do against Toyota.

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[AnttiL]

Hyundai lose even more and quit, M-sport has nothing to do against Toyota.

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Yeah, if Hyundai quits, for sure FIA must think again. But not yet.

[skarderud]

If Tänak goes to Toyota, i'm afraid Hyundai quits.
Not next year, but 2 more years of embarassing wont help a korean board to sign the checks.
Whoever Neuville gets in as teammates, they will be nowhere near a Rovenpära/Tänak combination.

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[AnttiL]

Yes but FIA cannot do this decision in advance.

[WRCStan]

If Tänak goes to Toyota, i'm afraid Hyundai quits.
Not next year, but 2 more years of embarassing wont help a korean board to sign the checks.
Whoever Neuville gets in as teammates, they will be nowhere near a Rovenpära/Tänak combination.

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If Hyundai quit, Tanak goes.

Hyundai already quiet quit.

[Managarium]

Its no point having 1,5 team in a world championship.



Remember when there were only Citroen and Ford?

[skarderud]

Remember when there were only Citroen and Ford?Yes, if we are back to that dark hole again, WRC is dead.
It was close to ruin the sport.



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[Eli]

Yes, if we are back to that dark hole again, WRC is dead.
It was close to ruin the sport.



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Yes but at least then it was Ford & not M-sport backed Ford Performance & B they had their B teams for 3 season making sure the championship survives, I don't think if Hyundai calls it quits the situation will be like then, they won't be able to recover from it.

[Oliverk]

Mby this WRC1 needs to die. To rise again with R5 cars.

[skarderud]

Mby this WRC1 needs to die. To rise again with R5 cars.Thinking the same. And get rid of the mandatory factory homologation in the same time, more cars and tuners participate, like Gr.A in the 90's, the factoryteams has more money anyway, but it was fun to have some locals push the top-dogs!

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[TypeR]

Just found out, that Ogier's ,,The Final Season'' doc is now free to watch!
and it is really good.. editing and some angels look like Tanak's movie, but all in all very cool movie.
Go watch!

https://www.redbull.com/int-en/films/sebastien-ogier-the-final-season

[becher]

Just found out, that Ogier's ,,The Final Season'' doc is now free to watch!
and it is really good.. editing and some angels look like Tanak's movie, but all in all very cool movie.
Go watch!

https://www.redbull.com/int-en/films/sebastien-ogier-the-final-season

Oh thanks, wanted to watch it but couldn't deal with the german dubbing. Didn't realize it is available in english as well.

[Rallyest]

On 7th October, in a estonian forum, few weeks before any of this a guy called Fordman(Fordimees) who has been on point with his inside intel and predictions before

Gazoo: Kalle, Ott, Taka-san, Esapekka/ Seb.
M-Sport: Olku,(Oliver) Maestro, Gus, Adrien
Undai: Thierry, Elfyn, Sordo/Andreas

[wyler]

On 7th October, in a estonian forum, few weeks before any of this a guy called Fordman(Fordimees) who has been on point with his inside intel and predictions before

Gazoo: Kalle, Ott, Taka-san, Esapekka/ Seb.
M-Sport: Olku,(Oliver) Maestro, Gus, Adrien
Undai: Thierry, Elfyn, Sordo/Andreas

That would be nice! still a bit surprised of breen missing, even with this horrible season, nothing to lose for m-sport in fulfilling the contract next year.

[lmmjvss]

On 7th October, in a estonian forum, few weeks before any of this a guy called Fordman(Fordimees) who has been on point with his inside intel and predictions before

Gazoo: Kalle, Ott, Taka-san, Esapekka/ Seb.
M-Sport: Olku,(Oliver) Maestro, Gus, Adrien
Undai: Thierry, Elfyn, Sordo/Andreas

Whos OLKU?

[flat_right]

Whos OLKU?

Solberg.

[lmmjvss]

Solberg.

oh! Thanks. I thought that "comma" meant "Olku sharing the car with Oliver". haha southern hemisphere language, sorry...
Tnx mate

[flat_right]

oh! Thanks. I thought that "comma" meant "Olku sharing the car with Oliver". haha southern hemisphere language, sorry...
Tnx mate

No, not your fault. That comma had to be behind Oliver. In the original post in the Estonian forum it was just Olku and I think user Rallyest just wanted to clarify.

But on the topic. As the past has shown, that user Fordimees has been correct many times and also taking into account that he posted this 2 weeks ago, then if this turns out to be true, it would be quite a "prediction" :D

[Rallyper]

Fourmaux before Loubet? Naahh.

[bandit12]

Fourmaux before Loubet? Naahh.
Loubet is the man. Glad that old piece of sh&t Hyundai did not scare him away from rallying.

[Managarium]

Just found out, that Ogier's ,,The Final Season'' doc is now free to watch!
and it is really good.. editing and some angels look like Tanak's movie, but all in all very cool movie.
Go watch!

https://www.redbull.com/int-en/films/sebastien-ogier-the-final-season

I've watched it back in May when it was released.
Maybe in GB was different release date? :confused:

[Managarium]

Fourmaux before Loubet? Naahh.

Red Bull has more money? :monkeedan

[Rallyest]

No, not your fault. That comma had to be behind Oliver. In the original post in the Estonian forum it was just Olku and I think user Rallyest just wanted to clarify.

But on the topic. As the past has shown, that user Fordimees has been correct many times and also taking into account that he posted this 2 weeks ago, then if this turns out to be true, it would be quite a "prediction" :D

Sorry for the confusion. It was supposed to be OLKU(Oliver) and then a comma. my bad, gonna double check my grammar from now to make sure no typos that confuse people come in

[flat_right]

Does anyone know why hasn't Östberg driven any WRC rallies this year? From ewrc we can see that he has been quite active but sadly in other series.

https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/69-mads-ostberg/

[Rallyest]

Does anyone know why hasn't Östberg driven any WRC rallies this year? From ewrc we can see that he has been quite active but sadly in other series.

https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/69-mads-ostberg/

Probably havent gotten a seat since he drove an Citroen. And not enough budget to drive with his own money

[AnttiL]

Back in 2020 Östberg had a lot of backing from Michelin, and in 2021 he had to change to Pirellis. Not sure but I think he lost the testing job to Citroen Racing so no own budget to run WRC2. Kind of a pity really. Maybe his burst in Sardinia scared some sponsors? :P

[DoN_cz]

Also, wasn't there some kind of a problem related to his dad and some moneys? I don't know the details, but I have heard something like that and that they are not very welcomed in WRC environment. I find it strange how many times this year he has been on site of a WRC event helping with testing etc and then before the rally starts, he goes away. While I believe that for example WRC+ would be happy to have him as a expert guest...

[WRCStan]

Promoter is just one of the parties in the service park who have a reasonable gripe against obligations and mismanagement of 0ne..b3t and its key person.

IF something is going through courts it makes sense not to keep handing money over to someone whilst telling them you've got no money.

[lmmjvss]

I find interesting that most of you fellas didnt said any name outside from the current drivers when talking about >>"How would you like the teams to be manned for 2023, to get a cool season to follow?"<<.
I know that topic (2023 rumours) is not the topic for fantasies, of course, but I always find difficult to understand what drivers you guys cheer for outside this current "top10".
Sometimes I say that I'd love to see Ingram, Kajto, Kopecy, Lukyanuk, Grazyn having a shot at the Rally1 teams... Is there any other good rally drivers that could be in Rally1 In your opinion?

[cali]

I find interesting that most of you fellas didnt said any name outside from the current drivers when talking about >>"How would you like the teams to be manned for 2023, to get a cool season to follow?"<<.
I know that topic (2023 rumours) is not the topic for fantasies, of course, but I always find difficult to understand what drivers you guys cheer for outside this current "top10".
Sometimes I say that I'd love to see Ingram, Kajto, Kopecy, Lukyanuk, Grazyn having a shot at the Rally1 teams... Is there any other good rally drivers that could be in Rally1 In your opinion?Simple answer - NO

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[JRodrigues]

With the Fiesta being discontinued as early as next year (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63391466), where will M-Sport turn to? Selling and maintaining the R1,R2,.... R5 Fiestas has been their main cash cow for years, specially with Poland facility open.

[ictus]

With the Fiesta being discontinued as early as next year (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63391466), where will M-Sport turn to? Selling and maintaining the R1,R2,.... R5 Fiestas has been their main cash cow for years, specially with Poland facility open.

They'll just wrap the mecanicals in another bodyshell

[skarderud]

But, is it any other brand possible? Ford don't seems particulary interessted...

New subaru wrx is coming, re-badged Yaris GR, can we have a comeback we all wan't, but don't dare to hope?

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[becher]

But, is it any other brand possible? Ford don't seems particulary interessted...

New subaru wrx is coming, re-badged Yaris GR, can we have a comeback we all wan't, but don't dare to hope?

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The new WRX is out already and a big cumbersome saloon with a longitudinal engine. So definitely not a rebadged GR4 and not suitable for rallying.

[skarderud]

Some told me yesterday that this was coming, its nothing in it?

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[djip]

I find interesting that most of you fellas didnt said any name outside from the current drivers when talking about >>"How would you like the teams to be manned for 2023, to get a cool season to follow?"<<.
I know that topic (2023 rumours) is not the topic for fantasies, of course, but I always find difficult to understand what drivers you guys cheer for outside this current "top10".
Sometimes I say that I'd love to see Ingram, Kajto, Kopecy, Lukyanuk, Grazyn having a shot at the Rally1 teams... Is there any other good rally drivers that could be in Rally1 In your opinion?

Out of the bunc you mention, i would like to see what Gryazin would do. Probably crash before rally end, but would he post exciting times beforehand ?
The other ones i would like to see give a chance are Huttunen (did a good job in finland this year, deserves another shot) and Rossel (I "feel" he as potential, but still unsure)

[becher]

Some told me yesterday that this was coming, its nothing in it?

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I'd be surprised, because there is already a 2022 WRX model year out.

[EstWRC]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221027/6503b8d9c6a4a0f50452e6d7215ded4e.jpg

[fiscorpun]

Does anyone watched the World Rally Raid Championship (W2RC?) finale?
I mean... this champioship is really growing on me. Never cared to follow anything other than Dakar highlights but Im REALLY enjoying these big cars and the lightweight too! Idk, WRC has not been "AWESOME" anymore, IDK whats happening but its just not espetacular anymore. And Im finding such a joy watching the W2RC cars and lightweights.
Cant wait for 2023... Hope you all give it a try cuz its simply amazing. This last round looked WAY MORE like "rallying" then with Desert Crossing, which was so fun to watch. Anyway, just sharing a thought.

[Rallyest]

Fun fact from Estonian media.

IF Tänak should go to Toyota, then it will be the first time since 1985 for 627 rallies completed in WRC total to have 3 World champions competing together in the same team

In 1985 it was Walter Röhrl, Hannu Mikkola and Stig Blomqvist all in Audis

[skarderud]

https://worldrally.se/subaru-comeback-med-petter-solberg-2023/

Assuming Subaru present New WRC team in rally Japan, with a car they have developed together with toyota?

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[seb_sh]

https://worldrally.se/subaru-comeback-med-petter-solberg-2023/

Assuming Subaru present New WRC team in rally Japan, with a car they have developed together with toyota?

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Sure Subaru comeback with Tanak and Solberg and blackjack and hookers.

[Allez Andruet]

Fun fact from Estonian media.

IF Tänak should go to Toyota, then it will be the first time since 1985 for 627 rallies completed in WRC total to have 3 World champions competing together in the same team

In 1985 it was Walter Röhrl, Hannu Mikkola and Stig Blomqvist all in Audis

And in 1985 it only happened once that they were all competing in the same rally (Sweden).

[lmmjvss]

Question for you european fellas:
Ive been noticing that in america, people "have fun" and "compete" in side by side / lightweight vehicules A LOT. Its like a mix of enduro & rally. I understand that americans are used to POST everything on YouTube and social media, theres A LOT OF redbull and monster sponsoring and broadcasting these events, theres the american enterteinment mindset behind the "having fun while competing"...
(The moto scene is also big in this american scenario, with motocross, enduro, pitbikes, flat track...)
But I couldnt stop thinking about "WHAT DO EUROPEANS DO in this sense? Like, what people race "for fun" in europe?

[focus206]

Question for you european fellas:
Ive been noticing that in america, people "have fun" and "compete" in side by side / lightweight vehicules A LOT. Its like a mix of enduro & rally. I understand that americans are used to POST everything on YouTube and social media, theres A LOT OF redbull and monster sponsoring and broadcasting these events, theres the american enterteinment mindset behind the "having fun while competing"...
(The moto scene is also big in this american scenario, with motocross, enduro, pitbikes, flat track...)
But I couldnt stop thinking about "WHAT DO EUROPEANS DO in this sense? Like, what people race "for fun" in europe?

Rallies. You can find plenty of amateur drivers in entry lists with relatively cheap old Saxo, Clio and Peugeot, in for example France and Italy, as well as old Volvo in Northern Europe. There's a huge amount of short national and regional rallies, as well as rallysprints.
Hillclimbs also. Very big entry lists at times, and nobody can stop you from running an old Peugeot 106.
As for lightweight veichles, you can find more and more of them in rally raids and bajas, in or around Europe.

[AnttiL]

Folk race?

https://youtu.be/cHFeQiZnlHU

[becher]

Also Autocross and Slaloms for which you don't even need a license or a car with a cage.

[WRCStan]

Or Autograss, off-circuit racing.

[seb_sh]

Nice article https://dirtfish.com/rally/how-a-jeep-led-to-fias-infamous-4wd-ban/

[Eli]

https://youtu.be/89g29GkyezY
Seeing this makes me miss Citroën a little bit more, yes I know ever since Loeb left them (full time) at the end of 2012, they never returned to past glories but this makes me feel a little bit sad they’re not there ( or Peugeot for that matter), hope one of them will be back but realistically, there’s more of a chance of a manufacturer withdrawing than the other way round.

[seb_sh]

Adamo putting in a good word about the car in case Stellantis is looking to join and need a TP? :P

[Myrvold]

But I couldnt stop thinking about "WHAT DO EUROPEANS DO in this sense? Like, what people race "for fun" in europe?

Just did a 6hr race in Sweden. Spent 550EUR on the whole thing including transport back and forth, fuel for the car, entry fee, hotel, food etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcnP_vriIOk

[Humber]

Japan 2022 - 36 entries ? finishers

Monza 2021 as WRC finale 81 start entries. 67 finishers.

Even if it was a bit goofy. Monza was held a week later than Rally Japan is.

Would or Could Monza make a more appropriate finale for the WRC or what other event would be suitable as the WRC''s final round? (Maybe reply when the Japan event is finished)

[steve.mandzij]

Unless Monza was 90% mountain stages and two or three circuit superspecials, Monza never again.

[skarderud]

Would or Could Monza make a more appropriate finale for the WRC or what other event would be suitable as the WRC''s final round? (Maybe reply when the Japan event is finished)

Rally Wales.

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[pantealex]

R A C for me, please!

[bearclaw]

R A C for me, please!

Same for me. A proper gravel rally in Wales or elsewhere in the forrest in UK with two or three park stages (like the old ones in the nineties) on thursday evening. friday, saturday and sunday in the woods. date: end of november with some stages in the dark.

I miss the days traveling to Wales and watching the rally in the muddy weather. The first pint in a warm and cozy pub after a long day on the stages was the best one. Cheers.

[HKSjbg]

To me as a kid in the ‘90s the RAC always meant northern England and southern Scotland - any combo of North Yorkshire, Hamsterley, Kielder, Lake District and Scottish Borders is the best a rally can be IMO

[satnav]

I'm maybe a bit biased, as my first RAC was 1979, but i reckon the RAC or Wales Rally GB or whatever you want to call it will always be hard to beat......

[AndyRAC]

Unless somebody can find any spare cash, a forest based Rally of GB won't be coming back.......

[denkimi]

Japan 2022 - 36 entries ? finishers

Monza 2021 as WRC finale 81 start entries. 67 finishers.

Even if it was a bit goofy. Monza was held a week later than Rally Japan is.

Would or Could Monza make a more appropriate finale for the WRC or what other event would be suitable as the WRC''s final round? (Maybe reply when the Japan event is finished)
Anything could be a good season finale as long as its close to europe and not on an island.

[seb_sh]

Anything could be a good season finale as long as its close to europe and not on an island.

I would add somewhere where road cleaning is not a big factor.

[lmmjvss]

Anything could be a good season finale as long as its close to europe and not on an island.

"close to europe", "not on an island", "a good season finale"
FIA: "SAUDI ARABIA!!!!!!!!"

[denkimi]

I would add somewhere where road cleaning is not a big factor.
Most of the times the championship is already decided before that.
But something like rally germany would seem like the ideal finale for me.

[AnttiL]

So basically you want a continental European tarmac rally amid rain and fallen leaves of November. Sounds very treacherous...

[denkimi]

So basically you want a continental European tarmac rally amid rain and fallen leaves of November. Sounds very treacherous...
Sound unpredictable, which is always good.

So yes.

[bearclaw]

So basically you want a continental European tarmac rally amid rain and fallen leaves of November. Sounds very treacherous...

In that region where this new Central Rally Europe should take place. In higher places of this area, there is also a possibility of snow in mid or late November. Not often nowadays but there is a small chance. I remember there were even snowy roads in this area at the end of October (planned date for 2023).

[bearclaw]

What do you think in terms of this stupid climate protests in museums, gluing themselves on roads and stuff like that. Could we see some protests of this people during a rally or on a WRC event too? I do not think this people are intelligent enough to know what could happen when gluing on a road over a fast crest on a special stage. ;)

[TypeR]

What do you think in terms of this stupid climate protests in museums, gluing themselves on roads and stuff like that. Could we see some protests of this people during a rally or on a WRC event too? I do not think this people are intelligent enough to know what could happen when gluing on a road over a fast crest on a special stage. ;)

This year's Silverston F1 there were some m0r0ns on track during warmup lap? I think... Marshals dragged them away

[WRCStan]

What do you think in terms of this stupid climate protests in museums, gluing themselves on roads and stuff like that. Could we see some protests of this people during a rally or on a WRC event too? I do not think this people are intelligent enough to know what could happen when gluing on a road over a fast crest on a special stage. ;)

Whoever's funding these idiots also conveniently let the press know so I think Promoter would be grateful for the exposure at least.

[Sal yet again]

WRC isnt high profile enough for protesters to pick up on. Anyway they tend to prefer urban environments where they can get an Uber to..

[seb_sh]

WRC isnt high profile enough for protesters to pick up on. Anyway they tend to prefer urban environments where they can get an Uber to..

and near a Starbucks

[becher]

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc-best-moments/wrcs-50-greatest-moments-salonen-comes-from-nowhere-to-win-85-title/

"...the man who had unsuccessfully requested that his engineers install an ashtray and power steering to his rally car..."

Anybody got an idea if Salonen really asked for power steering in the 205?

[AnttiL]

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc-best-moments/wrcs-50-greatest-moments-salonen-comes-from-nowhere-to-win-85-title/

"...the man who had unsuccessfully requested that his engineers install an ashtray and power steering to his rally car..."

Anybody got an idea if Salonen really asked for power steering in the 205?

Yes. And when they could not supply that in the next rally, they gave a bigger steering wheel instead

[becher]

Yes. And when they could not supply that in the next rally, they gave a bigger steering wheel instead
Ah thanks!

[lmmjvss]

Extreme-E in Punte Del Este (Uruguay) on YouTube.
Im really into this championship! They look exciting on track.

[bandit12]

Yes. And when they could not supply that in the next rally, they gave a bigger steering wheel instead

Timo Salonen is my spirit animal.

[Humber]

Should get someone to put together an electric rallycross Subaru (in the new hatchback) for Olly Solberg?

https://www.subaru.com/vehicles/impreza.html

[flat_right]

As there is no Rally Estonia 2023 topic I'll post it here. Today they announced the new prices for 2023 Rally Estonia and they have lowered the price from 85 to 65 (a nice 23% drop!). Though, you would have to buy it before 31st of January. After that the price will increase to 75 and before the rally it is 85. Let's see, I think most of the tickets will be bought after Ott's decision :D

[cali]

As there is no Rally Estonia 2023 topic I'll post it here. Today they announced the new prices for 2023 Rally Estonia and they have lowered the price from 85 to 65 (a nice 23% drop!). Though, you would have to buy it before 31st of January. After that the price will increase to 75 and before the rally it is 85. Let's see, I think most of the tickets will be bought after Ott's decision :DOtt's decision should not affect my Rally Estonia at all. It's still nice to see those top drivers on our beautiful roads.

But it will affect overall so called "fans" who most certainly will not be buying unless Tänak will participate. For Rally Estonia this would be huge financial loss.

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[AnttiL]

It's even the same in Finland. Rally Finland spectator rates were at an all time low around 2013 when it was the third successive year without Finnish winners. Then it started getting better with Toyota becoming a "local team" and Lappi winning in 2017, and now it went through the roof with Rovanperä leading the championship.

[sinepikohv]

Sadly most Estonian sports fans are true gloryhunters. WRC is very popular here but should Tänak decide to stop or take a break, the popularity will fall of a cliff. Partly reasonable, partly sad as we have a few young guns trying to break through.

[cali]

Sadly most Estonian sports fans are true gloryhunters. WRC is very popular here but should Tänak decide to stop or take a break, the popularity will fall of a cliff. Partly reasonable, partly sad as we have a few young guns trying to break through.Yes, I still remember our cross country skiing glory days well when everybody was skiing specialist and when I tried to explain them that most of our success was because of doping I was being verbally attacked quite agressively. That was years before these doping cases but hey don't believe a guy who has been in sports in his whole life ;)

Off topic rant over and unfortunately you hit in the nails head well.

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[WRCStan]

If anybody was enjoying Road to WRC with Sean Johnston and Alex Kihurani on Dirtfish YT, they're now only on Sean's YT (https://www.youtube.com/@seanjrally). I only just found that out and they're usually good fun.

[Rallyest]

So who thinks what about Lappi's full season with Hyundai?

My guess we will see Breen in ford vol2 or Tänak in Hyundai with slightly less speed. (meaning struggling with car and not finding confidence)

and just to be clear i really like Lappi, hope he will do great, but this is just my honest opinion

[lmmjvss]

I used to see Lappi as a future world champ but since Citroen he looks like that co-worker that is always doing nothing while recieving his money and not caring about that too cuz "If the owners didnt wanted me here they wouldnt be paying my salary"... Which I find cool, since he is my favorite driver in WRC

LAPPI 2023 WORLD CHAMPION

[becher]

I used to see Lappi as a future world champ but since Citroen he looks like that co-worker that is always doing nothing while recieving his money and not caring about that too cuz "If the owners didnt wanted me here they wouldnt be paying my salary"... Which I find cool, since he is my favorite driver in WRC

LAPPI 2023 WORLD CHAMPION

hahaha brilliant

[skarderud]

If Mikkelsen not is on toksport/skoda's list of drivers in 2023, are he in discussions with Toyota about development of the Rally2 car + the 4th WRC1 car the 6 races its "free"?
The best WRC2 driver available with all the experience and knowledge of the development of the best car in the class has to be worth gold for someone want to develop a competitor.

M-sport should be all over the place for that deal, but sadly they don't have money/are grumpy/wrong leadership.

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[Managarium]

I saw on youtube video about McRae - Sainz rivalry. In video, commentator said, when McRae joined Ford in 1999. that he became the most payed rally driver in the world ever. Since then, Ford Years (99-02) not even a single driver was payed as high as McRae at Ford.
Do you guys think this is true or BS?

[dimviii]

they had Martini as sponsor these years.

[AndyRAC]

I saw on youtube video about McRae - Sainz rivalry. In video, commentator said, when McRae joined Ford in 1999. that he became the most payed rally driver in the world ever. Since then, Ford Years (99-02) not even a single driver was payed as high as McRae at Ford.
Do you guys think this is true or BS?

It's very likely; it was a huge move when announced in the summer of 1998; a similar time to when the first CMR game came out. Ford were completely committed, and by the time the 1999 season started Martini had signed up (as Dimvii has already said) - and there was the Ford/McRae TV advert. WRC was a far bigger deal back then.

[Managarium]

Yes I know about Marini, I started waching rally when I was a kid, 25 years ago.
Sorry but I've forgott to mentioned that in video, they told that no other driver was payed as high as McRae back then at Ford and that remains today. So basically if we put a list of highest payed drivers ever McRae is no.1
His salary was larger then Makinen's in Mitsubishi, larger than Loeb's in Citroen, larger than Ogier's in VW... aniway you get the idea.

[doubled1978]

I’m not sure we can ever know the real figures, but it was certainly regarded as the highest rally salary in history at that time. I recall that it was said that Nicky Grist was on $1million salary as he negotiated his contracts with the teams and not his driver. If that number is true or not I don’t know, but he definitely has talked about making sure his contracts were with the team and not the driver so he was secure.
I’m sure Loeb (Citroen) & Ogier (VW) were pretty good contracts, but how they compare to McRae at Ford who knows.

[seb_sh]

Does this include money from sponsors or not? No idea of the figures but for Loeb for example it could be a significant sum.

EDIT: a quick search brought these up:
https://www.sportekz.com/money/wrc-drivers-salaries/
https://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-athletes/race-car-drivers/sebastien-loeb-net-worth/
https://celebdoko.com/colin-mcrae/

[skarderud]

Remember Petter Solberg had 60 mill NOK a year at subaru, highest paid sportsman in Norway those days. Not shure exact amount in euro those days, but 7-8 mill?

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[dimviii]

Loeb was at 10 millions per year at Citroen.Same ammount if i remember correct was and Ogier a vw.

[dimviii]

Kalles hair style

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjofpEDWYAccqzX?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[Rallyest]

Kalles hair style

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjofpEDWYAccqzX?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

Saw this one on facebook

[EstWRC]

At the moment we have Virves coming up through the ranks but there is also another young talented Estonian

https://dirtfish.com/rally/meet-rallyings-latest-wonderkid/

[fiscorpun]

X-Raid Mini is back to Dakar... not sure it will run every round of the W2RC tho.

People only seem to care about Dakar, right? ALmost no one knows that theres a full W2RC championship after Dakar.
The "same thing" happens to WEC. People know the 24h LeMans...and thats it. The Indycar suffers from the same thing with the Indy500 (tho I THINK the Indycar series is more known, based on the social media followers and youtube viewing numbers).

Do you feel WRC's Monte Carlo is the same? That people only remember this round... and then nothing more? Cuz RIGHT NOW I feel Monte Carlo is not even that big of a deal to the general racing fan. I feel we dont even have that ONE HUGE race that everybody stops to pay attention =/

Sad

[focus206]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/your-top-50-wrc-drivers-50-41/

Whoever knows anything about rally history... top 50 WRC drivers of all times. It's very hard to compare different eras, but this made me laugh.

#47 Greensmith and #48 Serderidis :D in front of Andruet (Monte winner & ERC champion) and Darniche (Monte winner & 2 times ERC champion) :D :D :D
#46 Therier, the would-have-been 1973 world champion (in an era with no drivers championship) behind Bourne, Kresta, etc...

[AnttiL]

Readers were allowed to vote. Some people always ”funny”.

[Rallyper]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/your-top-50-wrc-drivers-50-41/

Whoever knows anything about rally history... top 50 WRC drivers of all times. It's very hard to compare different eras, but this made me laugh.

#47 Greensmith and #48 Serderidis :D in front of Andruet (Monte winner & ERC champion) and Darniche (Monte winner & 2 times ERC champion) :D :D :D
#46 Therier, the would-have-been 1973 world champion (in an era with no drivers championship) behind Bourne, Kresta, etc...

Ingvar Carlsson on 41th. Well deserved.

[djip]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/your-top-50-wrc-drivers-50-41/

Whoever knows anything about rally history... top 50 WRC drivers of all times. It's very hard to compare different eras, but this made me laugh.

#47 Greensmith and #48 Serderidis :D in front of Andruet (Monte winner & ERC champion) and Darniche (Monte winner & 2 times ERC champion) :D :D :D
#46 Therier, the would-have-been 1973 world champion (in an era with no drivers championship) behind Bourne, Kresta, etc...

That is called democracy ...
There is always a strong bias atrecent drivers. Many people may not even knowt he names of Darniche, Andruet, Therier ...
and yes i agree : Therier should be in the top 10, if not top 5. He was viewed by his peers as one of the most talentetd ever ...

[AnttiL]

That is called democracy ...
There is always a strong bias atrecent drivers. Many people may not even knowt he names of Darniche, Andruet, Therier ...
and yes i agree : Therier should be in the top 10, if not top 5. He was viewed by his peers as one of the most talentetd ever ...

but he didn't win more because?

[Jarek Z]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/your-top-50-wrc-drivers-50-41/

Whoever knows anything about rally history... top 50 WRC drivers of all times. It's very hard to compare different eras, but this made me laugh.

#47 Greensmith and #48 Serderidis :D in front of Andruet (Monte winner & ERC champion) and Darniche (Monte winner & 2 times ERC champion) :D :D :D

I was going to say the same! That's a blasphemy!!! ;)

[Jarek Z]

Ingvar Carlsson on 41th. Well deserved.

I always associate him with this car:
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Mazda_Rally_Team_Europe#Media/File:Mazda_RX-7_Gr.B_001.JPG

[Rallyper]

I always associate him with this car:
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Mazda_Rally_Team_Europe#Media/File:Mazda_RX-7_Gr.B_001.JPG

Yes, also. But most with the 323 4WD...

[focus206]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/your-top-50-wrc-drivers-40-31/

Drivers from #40 to #31
I'd say all these drivers are worthy, but the order... Auriol #32 and behind Mikkelsen? Still missing drivers like Delecour, Gardemeister and Duval, are they going to rank better than Auriol and Munari?
I know it's not written by a journalist, but still :D

[Jarek Z]

Yes, also. But most with the 323 4WD...

I was a little kid when he won my home rally with the RX-7. I looked at this car in amazement, knowing that somewhere there must be some better world:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/8605-rajd-polski-1984/

[AnttiL]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/your-top-50-wrc-drivers-40-31/

Drivers from #40 to #31
I'd say all these drivers are worthy, but the order... Auriol #32 and behind Mikkelsen? Still missing drivers like Delecour, Gardemeister and Duval, are they going to rank better than Auriol and Munari?
I know it's not written by a journalist, but still :D

I don't understand how you can complain when it's a voting.

[AnttiL]

Some time ago I created this table where WRC drivers are sorted by giving points for certain achievements: starting a WRC rally, winning a stage, getting a podium, winning, winning in more than one brand of car, winning the title, winning a title in more than one brand of car. And then those are weighed with some factors and we get a total score that looks like this:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RgHSc_cHhqMkt9DcS5wogijOh6wwN4sGPd1YoNEr_4I/edit?usp=sharing

Not all drivers are included automatically. Let me know if someone is missing and should be added.

[focus206]

I don't understand how you can complain when it's a voting.

I literally wrote that I know it's not written by a journalist. Making fun of a silly ranking is not complaining.

[AnttiL]

I find it strange that they are publishing a top 50 list when we were allowed to vote for three top drivers. I would like to know how many votes Ingvar Carlsson received, how many people think he is in all time top 3? Releasing the top 10 would have been enough.

[dimviii]

I was a little kid when he won my home rally with the RX-7. I looked at this car in amazement, knowing that somewhere there must be some better world:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/8605-rajd-polski-1984/

i have seen it live at Acropolis,one of the best engine sounds i ever listened.

[becher]

I find it strange that they are publishing a top 50 list when we were allowed to vote for three top drivers. I would like to know how many votes Ingvar Carlsson received, how many people think he is in all time top 3? Releasing the top 10 would have been enough.
Some people vote for their favourite driver, some to troll (see best WRCar poll).

[focus206]

Some people vote for their favourite driver, some to troll (see best WRCar poll).

And some only care for the little flag on the rear window

[pantealex]

Some people vote for their favourite driver, some to troll (see best WRCar poll).

it was not trolling, Octavia is Best WRC ever !!!

[Jarek Z]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/your-top-50-wrc-drivers-40-31/

Drivers from #40 to #31
I'd say all these drivers are worthy, but the order... Auriol #32 and behind Mikkelsen? Still missing drivers like Delecour, Gardemeister and Duval, are they going to rank better than Auriol and Munari?

Delecour is there, at position #30, behind... Kenjiro Shinozuka:
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/your-top-50-wrc-drivers-30-21/

What is the story about his road accident in a Ferrari F40?

[focus206]

Delecour is there, at position #30, behind... Kenjiro Shinozuka:
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/your-top-50-wrc-drivers-30-21/

What is the story about his road accident in a Ferrari F40?

Shinozuka in front of world champion Salonen :D
I was thinking that older drivers were penalized by younger voters who wouldn't know them, but then you see Sordo, Latvala and Meeke (never championship contenders apart from maybe Latvala once) in front of Hirvonen, with Latvala and Meeke being in front of Neuville as well. Guess fan favourites really matter :D

[AnttiL]

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2022/12/23/wrc-season-2022-wrap-up/

Here's my sum of the 2022 WRC stages. New ones, fast and slow ones, but also cancelled ones.

[doubled1978]

Delecour is there, at position #30, behind... Kenjiro Shinozuka:
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/your-top-50-wrc-drivers-30-21/

What is the story about his road accident in a Ferrari F40?

In 1994 he was going for the title, started by winning Monte Carlo, but had a road accident in a friends F40 and broke his legs which caused him to miss a lot of the season. 93/94 was his best period driving wise and he could have done it, personally I think he would have missed out anyway as the Toyota and Subaru were starting to out develop Ford with stuff like the active diffs etc, although Makinen did win 1000 Lakes in a one-off factory drive.
Shame he didn’t get the chance as by ‘95 the Ford team was a not run by the factory and wasn’t really competitive and after that he went back to French Championship with Peugeot and the 306 Maxi.

[Jarek Z]

Thanks! I didn't know this story.

[focus206]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/your-top-50-wrc-drivers-5-1/

Tanak #1 and Martin #5... I have a feeling many Estonians voted :D

[rp]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/your-top-50-wrc-drivers-5-1/

Tanak #1 and Martin #5... I have a feeling many Estonians voted :D

This DirtFish ranking is pure joke! Can not understand why there is no Urmo Aava and Karl Kruuda, when we all know what Estonians are doing...

[Eli]

Merry Christmas everyone! Happy Holidays!!

[WRCStan]

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2022/12/23/wrc-season-2022-wrap-up/

Here's my sum of the 2022 WRC stages. New ones, fast and slow ones, but also cancelled ones.

"Shitara Town 2 was meanwhile cancelled because Craig Breen went off on the first run of the stage, damaging a barrier." - Officially yes ;)

Did anybody keep a red flag tally?

[cali]

This DirtFish ranking is pure joke! Can not understand why there is no Urmo Aava and Karl Kruuda, when we all know what Estonians are doing...Well it was a fan vote and what can you expect when big newspapers urged people to vote.
Anyways I got Loeb, Ogier and KKK as top3 so my conscious is clean

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[doubled1978]

Well it was a fan vote and what can you expect when big newspapers urged people to vote.
Anyways I got Loeb, Ogier and KKK as top3 so my conscious is clean

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

I didn’t vote, but if I voted with my head I would have Loeb, Ogier & Kankkunen as my top 3.
If I voted with my heart, Mikkola, Toivonen & Vatanen with an honourable mention for McRae.

[focus206]

Well it was a fan vote and what can you expect when big newspapers urged people to vote.
Anyways I got Loeb, Ogier and KKK as top3 so my conscious is clean

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

I would have probably voted Loeb, Ogier and KKK as well. Since once could submit only the top 3, I'm surprised they could make a top 50 list, you'd think not more than 20 drivers would get a vote. I guess the troll votes for Serderidis, Shinozuka etc. actually had a great impact :D

[seb_sh]

I put Loeb 3 times :P

[Berke]

Does KKK stand for Kankkunen?

[seb_sh]

Does KKK stand for Kankkunen?

Either that or you're in the wrong forum :p

[Sal yet again]

https://youtu.be/CFghtD7QQ4I

If you have an hour or so to spare and want to watch a great film about the Tuthill Porsche team's attack on the Classic Safari rally can highly recommend this production. Gives you a proper feel for the challenge.

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/AnttiL_WRC/status/1608378683298926594

Started my own TOP50 drivers based on data.

41 Jean Ragnotti
42 Timo Mäkinen
43 Per Eklund
44 Mikael Ericsson
45 Francois Duval
46 Armin Schwarz
47 Jean-Claude Andruet
48 Esapekka Lappi
49 Hayden Paddon
49 Bruno Saby (tied)

[rp]

https://twitter.com/AnttiL_WRC/status/1608378683298926594

Started my own TOP50 drivers based on data.

41 Jean Ragnotti
42 Timo Mäkinen
43 Per Eklund
44 Mikael Ericsson
45 Francois Duval
46 Armin Schwarz
47 Jean-Claude Andruet
48 Esapekka Lappi
49 Hayden Paddon
49 Bruno Saby (tied)

Thanks a lot AnttiL! Will be great list and totally different than DirtFish ridiculous voting..

[Eli]

Just seen this: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=439069494974583 and boy do I miss Subaru & their Impreza, I mean sure, the post 2017 cars are something else, but that blue & gold (yellow) livery with those gold alloys sure look good almost 18 years later!

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/AnttiL_WRC/status/1608378683298926594

Started my own TOP50 drivers based on data.

41 Jean Ragnotti
42 Timo Mäkinen
43 Per Eklund
44 Mikael Ericsson
45 Francois Duval
46 Armin Schwarz
47 Jean-Claude Andruet
48 Esapekka Lappi
49 Hayden Paddon
49 Bruno Saby (tied)

Part two

https://twitter.com/AnttiL_WRC/status/1608559133984452609

31 Gilles Panizzi
32 Bernard Darniche
33 Jean-Pierre Nicolas
34 Kris Meeke
35 Jean-Luc Therier
36 Michele Mouton
37 Mads Østberg
38 Harri Rovanperä
39 Shekhar Mehta
40 Henri Toivonen

[AnttiL]

Part two

https://twitter.com/AnttiL_WRC/status/1608559133984452609

31 Gilles Panizzi
32 Bernard Darniche
33 Jean-Pierre Nicolas
34 Kris Meeke
35 Jean-Luc Therier
36 Michele Mouton
37 Mads Østberg
38 Harri Rovanperä
39 Shekhar Mehta
40 Henri Toivonen

Part three

https://twitter.com/AnttiL_WRC/status/1608737150471737344

21 Richard Burns
22 Timo Salonen
23 Kalle Rovanperä
24 Dani Sordo
25 Sandro Munari
26 Elfyn Evans
27 Kenneth Eriksson
28 François Delecour
29 Markko Märtin
30 Andreas Mikkelsen

[AnttiL]

Part three

https://twitter.com/AnttiL_WRC/status/1608737150471737344

21 Richard Burns
22 Timo Salonen
23 Kalle Rovanperä
24 Dani Sordo
25 Sandro Munari
26 Elfyn Evans
27 Kenneth Eriksson
28 François Delecour
29 Markko Märtin
30 Andreas Mikkelsen

Part four

https://twitter.com/AnttiL_WRC/status/1608918344555536384

11 Walter Röhrl
12 Hannu Mikkola
13 Jari-Matti Latvala
14 Petter Solberg
15 Ott Tänak
16 Mikko Hirvonen
17 Thierry Neuville
18 Björn Waldegård
19 Stig Blomqvist
20 Ari Vatanen

[focus206]

Part four

https://twitter.com/AnttiL_WRC/status/1608918344555536384

11 Walter Röhrl
12 Hannu Mikkola
13 Jari-Matti Latvala
14 Petter Solberg
15 Ott Tänak
16 Mikko Hirvonen
17 Thierry Neuville
18 Björn Waldegård
19 Stig Blomqvist
20 Ari Vatanen

I never realized Latvala won more WRC events than Hirvonen (or Solberg), and yet he's never been a serious contender for the title...

[TypeR]

I never realized Latvala won more WRC events than Hirvonen (or Solberg), and yet he's never been a serious contender for the title...
but he is ,,better,, than many world champions :D

[AnttiL]

but he is ,,better,, than many world champions :D

I think you are missing the point of this listing. I'm giving points for certain achievements like win is 100 points and champion title 1000 points. Thus, winning 10 rallies is equal to a world title. Some drivers have more wins, some more podiums, some more stage wins, some more finishes etc. Lack in one area can be compensated with success in another. It is very interesting to see the result unfold. Otherwise we could just use the ewrc-results world title list and settle for that.

And in case you're just angry because JML is above Tänak, fear not, Tänak would climb ahead already by winning Monte. In any case he will most likely climb soon to #11 ahead of Mikkola and Röhrl as well, maybe even to top ten. :)

[EstWRC]

I understand your system but For my taste, I would put all the world championships winning drivers as first 19 and then after them the guys who haven’t won a championship.

For me it’s weird to see Latvala ahead of Kalle, Ott, Solberg, Vatanen, Blomqvist

[seb_sh]

I understand your system but For my taste, I would put all the world championships winning drivers as first 19 and then after them the guys who haven’t won a championship.

For me it’s weird to see Latvala ahead of Kalle, Ott, Solberg, Vatanen, Blomqvist

Latvala is maybe a bit of a special case because had a career so long his points maybe are a bit inflated. Still, remember he was the youngest winner at his time and for a while he was quite fast. In the end it's a data driven thing, that's the limit of the system.

It also doesn't take into account "potential". For example we all imagine Kalle will go on to win many rallies and titles but imagine if Kalle never wins a rally again and Evans and Tanak dominate him for the next 5 years, he starts to crash etc do you still think he is so good as you do now?

Kudos to Antti for putting in the work.

[EstWRC]

Latvala is maybe a bit of a special case because had a career so long his points maybe are a bit inflated. Still, remember he was the youngest winner at his time and for a while he was quite fast. In the end it's a data driven thing, that's the limit of the system.

It also doesn't take into account "potential". For example we all imagine Kalle will go on to win many rallies and titles but imagine if Kalle never wins a rally again and Evans and Tanak dominate him for the next 5 years, he starts to crash etc do you still think he is so good as you do now?

Kudos to Antti for putting in the work.

To each their own

IMO it’s more difficult to win a championship than to win a rally.

If Kalle wouldn’t win a single rally or championship again (which will never happen) then I would still rate him higher than Latvala.

[AnttiL]

IMO it’s more difficult to win a championship than to win a rally.
10 rallies, not just one. And usually winning a title also involves winning some rallies...


If Kalle wouldn’t win a single rally or championship again (which will never happen) then I would still rate him higher than Latvala.

This is the same as with Henri Toivonen who had a relatively short career. People say he would have been a champion, but it's just would. Same with Kalle, people say he will be a 9 time world champion if he just continues as long, but if he quits earlier, it's a big would. The stats don't understand this word :)

[AnttiL]

I understand your system but For my taste, I would put all the world championships winning drivers as first 19 and then after them the guys who haven’t won a championship.

For me it’s weird to see Latvala ahead of Kalle, Ott, Solberg, Vatanen, Blomqvist

Thanks for using "for my taste" and "for me". Everyone can make their own lists, but this one is mine :)

[cali]

Good list, maybe not fully for "my" taste but it's much better and adequate than the Dirtfish one.

And also there's some metrics in it while maybe you (or we) can develop the logic behind it overall very good job!

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[dimviii]

young Malcolm
https://twitter.com/MSportLtd/status/1609240602335379465

[AnttiL]

Good list, maybe not fully for "my" taste but it's much better and adequate than the Dirtfish one.

And also there's some metrics in it while maybe you (or we) can develop the logic behind it overall very good job!

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

I have the data, we can tweak the parameters and see how the list changes. For example we can make EstWRC version with 10 000 points for a championship title so champions will be for sure at the front. I'll get back to that later when I have more time.

But happy new year everyone! :)

[AnttiL]

Here is the list with 10 000 for WRC title, 7500 for FIA Drivers cup and 2500 for winning title with another manufacturer

1 Loeb, Sebastien
2 Ogier, Sebastien
3 Kankkunen, Juha
4 Mäkinen, Tommi
5 Sainz, Carlos
6 Grönholm, Marcus
7 Röhrl, Walter
8 Biasion, Massimo
9 Auriol, Didier
10 McRae, Colin
11 Mikkola, Hannu
12 Solberg, Petter
13 Tänak, Ott
14 Waldegård, Björn
15 Blomqvist, Stig
16 Vatanen, Ari
17 Burns, Richard
18 Salonen, Timo
19 Alen, Markku
20 Rovanperä, Kalle
21 Munari, Sandro
22 Latvala, Jari-Matti
23 Hirvonen, Mikko
24 Neuville, Thierry
25 Sordo, Dani
26 Evans, Elfyn
27 Eriksson, Kenneth
28 Delecour, Francois
29 Märtin, Markko
30 Mikkelsen, Andreas
31 Gilles Panizzi
32 Darniche, Bernard
33 Nicolas, Jean-Pierre
34 Meeke, Kris
35 Therier, Jean-Luc
36 Mouton, Michele
37 Østberg, Mads
38 Rovanperä, Harri
39 Mehta, Shekhar
40 Toivonen, Henri
41 Ragnotti, Jean
42 Mäkinen, Timo
43 Eklund, Per
44 Ericsson, Mikael
45 Duval, Francois
46 Schwarz, Armin
47 Andruet, Jean-Claude
48 Lappi, Esapekka
49 Paddon, Hayden
50 Saby, Bruno

[cali]

I have the data, we can tweak the parameters and see how the list changes. For example we can make EstWRC version with 10 000 points for a championship title so champions will be for sure at the front. I'll get back to that later when I have more time.

But happy new year everyone! :)You can't please em' all ;)

Happy new year everybody!

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[cali]

Here is the list with 10 000 for WRC title, 7500 for FIA Drivers cup and 2500 for winning title with another manufacturer

1Loeb, Sebastien
2Ogier, Sebastien
3Kankkunen, Juha
4Mäkinen, Tommi
5Sainz, Carlos
6Grönholm, Marcus
7Röhrl, Walter
8Biasion, Massimo
9Auriol, Didier
10McRae, Colin
11Mikkola, Hannu
12Solberg, Petter
13Tänak, Ott
14Waldegård, Björn
15Blomqvist, Stig
16Vatanen, Ari
17Burns, Richard
18Salonen, Timo
19Alen, Markku
20Rovanperä, Kalle
21Munari, Sandro
22Latvala, Jari-Matti
23Hirvonen, Mikko
24Neuville, Thierry
25Sordo, Dani
26Evans, Elfyn
27Eriksson, Kenneth
28Delecour, Francois
29Märtin, Markko
30Mikkelsen, Andreas
31Gilles Panizzi
32Darniche, Bernard
33Nicolas, Jean-Pierre
34Meeke, Kris
35Therier, Jean-Luc
36Mouton, Michele
37Østberg, Mads
38Rovanperä, Harri
39Mehta, Shekhar
40Toivonen, Henri
41Ragnotti, Jean
42Mäkinen, Timo
43Eklund, Per
44Ericsson, Mikael
45Duval, Francois
46Schwarz, Armin
47Andruet, Jean-Claude
48Lappi, Esapekka
49Paddon, Hayden
50Saby, BrunoSo, no Greensmith and Serderidis, dissappointed lol

PS! I tend to like the original list better (read: Sainz vs Mäkinen...)

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[AndyRAC]

Good list, maybe not fully for "my" taste but it's much better and adequate than the Dirtfish one.

And also there's some metrics in it while maybe you (or we) can develop the logic behind it overall very good job!

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

I'm not sure it's much better than the Dirtfish one.....seems a bit of flawed data.

[AnttiL]

I'm not sure it's much better than the Dirtfish one.....seems a bit of flawed data.

In which way?

[dimviii]

Have a nice new year guys!!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlTT-l0WQAEz1Nz?format=jpg&name=small

[Eli]

Happy New Year!!! May it be as competitive as we hope and we'll get to see some (more) rallies!!

[HKSjbg]

1 Loeb, Sebastien
2 Ogier, Sebastien
3 Kankkunen, Juha
4 Mäkinen, Tommi

We can argue until the cows come home about the rest but can anyone honestly disagree with at least the top four here? I’m pretty sure the top three is how I voted in the Dirt Fish poll

[AnttiL]

We can argue until the cows come home about the rest but can anyone honestly disagree with at least the top four here? I’m pretty sure the top three is how I voted in the Dirt Fish poll

In my original list Sainz was fourth, and I think he deserves to be ahead of Mäkinen although the title numbers suggest otherwise. Remember RAC 1998, had things gone a bit differently, titles could be 3-3 between the two, and in that case Sainz would be clearly better in terms of other achievements.

[cali]

In my original list Sainz was fourth, and I think he deserves to be ahead of Mäkinen although the title numbers suggest otherwise. Remember RAC 1998, had things gone a bit differently, titles could be 3-3 between the two, and in that case Sainz would be clearly better in terms of other achievements.Exactly! In my eyes it's 3-3 between Sainz & Mäkinen.
Careerwise Sainz did more.

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[cali]

I'm not sure it's much better than the Dirtfish one.....seems a bit of flawed data.It's much better and adequate.

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[ictus]

Remember RAC 1998, had things gone a bit differently, .... and Makinen would't slide on an oil spill we would still be champion ;)

[cali]

.... and Makinen would't slide on an oil spill we would still be champion ;)Mäkinen did the mistake, Sainz didn't

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[doubled1978]

In my original list Sainz was fourth, and I think he deserves to be ahead of Mäkinen although the title numbers suggest otherwise. Remember RAC 1998, had things gone a bit differently, titles could be 3-3 between the two, and in that case Sainz would be clearly better in terms of other achievements.

I agree, the top 5 is not in dispute really. I suppose you could say that Kankkunen is an odd one because he never won on tarmac, so all his success came from loose surface rallies.

[AnttiL]

Mäkinen did the mistake, Sainz didn't

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

I would say both suffered bad luck. It's a part of motorsport, as are technical problems.

[AnttiL]

I agree, the top 5 is not in dispute really. I suppose you could say that Kankkunen is an odd one because he never won on tarmac, so all his success came from loose surface rallies.

And Sainz never won on snow. And Mäkinen never on mixed surface.

[Managarium]

Is there gonna be official launch of the 2023 WRC cars and drivers like it was almost a year ago in Austria?

[jcevc]

Is there gonna be official launch of the 2023 WRC cars and drivers like it was almost a year ago in Austria?

No launch like last year in Salzburg, it will be official presentation of rally1 teams in Monte Carlo on wednesday 18.1. - but smaller scale.

[EstWRC]

That’s cheap

[Rallyest]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/whats-changing-in-wrc-this-year/?fbclid=IwAR0Lau52fIfJVgHN0rEq5I4tmLR7c93G0lgvRFFJ TQtg05OLj72QxkMXvLM

New regulations for this season summed up by dirtfish.

Tire warming zones are interesting, wonder how many rallies will apply it since it is not mandatory.

Also i like the idea of no more extra 4 tires for shakedown, since it will make tire strategy more relevant on some rallies again.

[Humber]

Recently posted on Facebook by a reliable source. 'Hoonigans' have confirmed that Ken Block has passed away as the result of a snowmobile accident.

Obviously best known in the motorsport world for the Gymkhana stunt video series that spanned the globe for filming locations.

A frequent competitor in the US Rally Championship/ Rallycross Championship and previous participant in the WRC and other rallies/rallycross/ other motorsport events around the World.

From Hoonigan Industries instagram
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cm74ZDVL_PS/

[TypeR]

Terrible news at the beginning of the year.. :'(
https://dirtfish.com/archive/ken-block-killed-in-snowmobile-accident/

[cali]

Ahh terrible news. RIP

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[EstWRC]

Horrible news, RIP

He did an amazing job promoting Motorsport.

[doubled1978]

Very sad news. Ken Block was one of us, he loved rallying. RIP

[Rallyest]

R.I.P Legend.

[flat_right]

That's tough! People who bring joy and happiness should not go this way. RIP!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

His influence on young fans may have been the most since Colin McRae, especially with his input and name attached to the popular rally game, DiRT3.

Rally in Peace, Ken Block #43.

[Rallyper]

Remember Ken´s off at Leustu 1 (SS14) in 2012. After last car had passed me and my son Simon went 3K from Saakoski yellow house up to the corner he went off and lost a wheel. MSport people was just arriving and he stood there holding his child in his arms. Calm despite what happened. When he was asked he just explained how it happened. Very nice and polite.

Same corner I was spectating with Pantealex and his Jämsään friends in 2019...

[focus206]

You just know he was one of the guys who would have kept endlessly rallying, racing and doing stunts. Some just have motorsport in their veins.
I remember him going viral on Youtube with his gymkhanas in the 2000s and basically becoming an icon.

RIP Ken

[Rallyper]

Isn´t it they are also dare devils outside their sport, when they instead could ease down a bit? Schumacher, McRae and now Block...

[seb_sh]

Sad news, R.I.P.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Quite ironic after all his rally crashes, huge car jumps and amazing on-the-edge stunts, that it's a snowmobile that takes him out. :(

[dimviii]

rip...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ott Tänak @OttTanak

Our sport lost a great man today. Ken was a visionary and a true legend who has inspired so many of us. Rest In Peace, Ken !

[Jarek Z]

“We lost a legend today in Ken Block,” says Ford CEO Jim Farley. “Ken inspired generations of automotive enthusiasts, and in the process he came to inspire all of us at Ford Motor Company as well.”

sources:
https://mobile.twitter.com/jimfarley98/status/1610125336183771137
and
https://fordauthority.com/2023/01/former-ford-rally-driver-ken-block-dies-at-55/

[Jarek Z]

Isn´t it they are also dare devils outside their sport, when they instead could ease down a bit? Schumacher, McRae and now Block...

Yes, I'm afraid it's not a coincidence... but I can't blame them.

[Jarek Z]

Motorsport world pays tribute to Ken Block:
https://www.motorsport.com/rally/news/motorsport-world-pays-tribute-to-visionary-ken-block/10416639/

[Sal yet again]

I was guilty in the early days of being a bit cynical and perhaps jealous in hindsight of Ken's involvement in rallying however I like many I suspect would be foolish to deny his influence on the sport and car culture in general. His sheer enthusiasm and love for rallying always came across and was last witness to it in the Tuthill Classic Safari film which appeared on Youtube over the break.

To his family and many friends and fans my condolences.

[NOT]

Most motorsport guys die from stupid accidents because driving fast is something really hard and they feel they can do almost everything at that level which results in hilarious deaths.. helicopters, climbing ladders to pick fruit, snomobiles, skiing ects....

Oh well rallying did not lose much with block and it also helped to bring the wrong people into the sport... But a loss is a loss and is always a pity when people die below the age of 82.

[WRCStan]

Isn´t it they are also dare devils outside their sport, when they instead could ease down a bit? Schumacher, McRae and now Block...

Not easily, it's just part of who they are that brought them into the sport and got them noticed in the first place.

Ken without doubt enjoyed what he did - rallying more than some works drivers. For example doing more donuts than necessary in Barcelona was just to spread the enjoyment he got instead of comparing times. A true petrolhead too, responsible for some great builds. Who else was going to be building and rallying an Escort Cosworth!?

Very sad news.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I've heard of many fatal accidents with forms of off-roading sport like quad bikes, mountain bikes, scramblers and skidoo's.

Rallying deaths are relatively rare but bring much negative pressto the sport whereas other sports get away with it...

[AnttiL]

I've heard of many fatal accidents with forms of off-roading sport like quad bikes, mountain bikes, scramblers and skidoo's.

Rallying deaths are relatively rare but bring much negative pressto the sport whereas other sports get away with it...

I don't mean to comment on Block's incident, but it's good to distinguish accidents in official sports and just hobby riding.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I hope Oliver Solberg is careful on his snowmobile...

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cm69N02v0rf/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

[AnttiL]

Any Swedish guys have old Rally Sweden maps / spectator guides or know someone who could have them?

I made this based on a video but it's not 100% right, would like to get some details. The whole area is likely changed a bit since...

https://www.rally-maps.com/International-Swedish-Rally-1993/Kalvholmen

https://youtu.be/twjqwXUmNZg?t=575

Also some years of Rally Sweden are missing altogether from rally-maps so overall maps from those years would be appreciated as well. Namely 2002, 2001, 1999, 1996, 1995, 1992, 1991 and 1988. And also the itinerary of 1987 is missing.

[Rallyper]

Any Swedish guys have old Rally Sweden maps / spectator guides or know someone who could have them?

I made this based on a video but it's not 100% right, would like to get some details. The whole area is likely changed a bit since...

https://www.rally-maps.com/International-Swedish-Rally-1993/Kalvholmen

https://youtu.be/twjqwXUmNZg?t=575

Also some years of Rally Sweden are missing altogether from rally-maps so overall maps from those years would be appreciated as well. Namely 2002, 2001, 1999, 1996, 1995, 1992, 1991 and 1988. And also the itinerary of 1987 is missing.

I will take a look in my archive...

[Steve Boyd]

I will take a look in my archive...
One of the things I like about this place.
People (geeks?) like me with personal archives of rally history that are happy to share with anyone putting together collections of information that the world can see.

[AnttiL]

One of the things I like about this place.
People (geeks?) like me with personal archives of rally history that are happy to share with anyone putting together collections of information that the world can see.

Indeed! And not just this place but the rallying community in general. Although there's also some examples of people who have a big collection of paper maps unwilling to share anything to the digital world, but luckily it's a small minority.

[Rallyper]

Any Swedish guys have old Rally Sweden maps / spectator guides or know someone who could have them?

I made this based on a video but it's not 100% right, would like to get some details. The whole area is likely changed a bit since...

https://www.rally-maps.com/International-Swedish-Rally-1993/Kalvholmen

https://youtu.be/twjqwXUmNZg?t=575

Also some years of Rally Sweden are missing altogether from rally-maps so overall maps from those years would be appreciated as well. Namely 2002, 2001, 1999, 1996, 1995, 1992, 1991 and 1988. And also the itinerary of 1987 is missing.

I´ve found overall maps from 1996 and 2001. Separate stagemaps from Rally Guide from 1988, 1999 and 2002. Have to dig deeper, but it´s cold in the storage...
How do you like to have the material. Can I just take photos?

[totbalazs]

hi guys.
i managed to get onto a real R2 car after 30.000 km-s played in Richard Burns Rally.
And i would like to share the onboard - if you have some free time, check it and enjoy. I really did. Its a fckng drug:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQrQcD5rjR0

happy new jear

[Jarek Z]

Dirtfish remembering Ken Block in a nice video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRmg_G70UZE

[AnttiL]

I´ve found overall maps from 1996 and 2001. Separate stagemaps from Rally Guide from 1988, 1999 and 2002. Have to dig deeper, but it´s cold in the storage...
How do you like to have the material. Can I just take photos?

Cell phone photos are perfectly fine. I can DM you my email

Start with the oldest ones please, since I should be getting road books for 1999-2002

[fiscorpun]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXk3ju4WDC4

I LOVE watching stuff like this, that just happened in Dakar. Its soo clooose to the chaos

[Rallyper]

@AnttiL Sent you some pics... will dig more later...

[Jarek Z]

Those were great moments! :)
https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc/revealed-the-20-greatest-moments-in-the-history-of-the-wrc/

[AnttiL]

@AnttiL Sent you some pics... will dig more later...

https://www.rally-maps.com/Swedish-Rally-2001
https://www.rally-maps.com/Swedish-Rally-1996

[Eli]

Browsing youtube, all of a sudden, came across this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_S9UUHJNaw was trying to find it after it was released but sadly found nothing, until today. A great way to capture Group B, & rallying in general, also makes you think about current day drivers who've lost their co-drivers in an accident.

[AnttiL]

Browsing youtube, all of a sudden, came across this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_S9UUHJNaw was trying to find it after it was released but sadly found nothing, until today. A great way to capture Group B, & rallying in general, also makes you think about current day drivers who've lost their co-drivers in an accident.

I saw it already some years ago. It's decent.

That's Markku Alen's son in the Lancia overalls, by the way. He's a professional actor.

[Eli]

I saw it already some years ago. It's decent.

That's Markku Alen's son in the Lancia overalls, by the way. He's a professional actor.

That's pretty cool, shame it isn't a bit longer/ we don't get more films like this.

[becher]

I saw it already some years ago. It's decent.

That's Markku Alen's son in the Lancia overalls, by the way. He's a professional actor.

Anton?

[AnttiL]

Anton?

Andrei

[Rallyper]

I will start Pickems for RMC as usual tomorrow. Though I haven´t got in touch with Kradovech yet. Hope he´s on as well for 2023.

[Jarek Z]

Browsing youtube, all of a sudden, came across this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_S9UUHJNaw was trying to find it after it was released but sadly found nothing, until today. A great way to capture Group B, & rallying in general, also makes you think about current day drivers who've lost their co-drivers in an accident.

YouTube algorythms showed it to me as well. I have just seen it. Well done for such a short movie!

Now we are waiting for this, I guess?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt20112600/?ref_=tt_mv_close

Anybody knows when it is out?

[240RS]

Esapekka Lappi: “I’m excited to start this adventure with a new team. I’ve only had one test day on Tarmac, but I will go there with my mind open and not give up before we’ve even started. I am confident we can have good pace – maybe not from the very first stage, but certainly we will develop a lot during the weekend and hopefully finish well.” (wrc.com)

Every sentence from that Lappi interview begins with a positive and ends with a negative, hinting at what he really feels. It's my big worry that this will be a season where ONLY Neuville and Tanak will be fighting the obvious might of Toyota. Is there anyone out there who seriously reckons there will be a manufacturers' title battle???

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2023/wrc/lappi-dry-monte-would-be-simpler/

[Eli]

Esapekka Lappi: “I’m excited to start this adventure with a new team. I’ve only had one test day on Tarmac, but I will go there with my mind open and not give up before we’ve even started. I am confident we can have good pace – maybe not from the very first stage, but certainly we will develop a lot during the weekend and hopefully finish well.” (wrc.com)

Every sentence from that Lappi interview begins with a positive and ends with a negative, hinting at what he really feels. It's my big worry that this will be a season where ONLY Neuville and Tänak will be fighting the obvious might of Toyota. Is there anyone out there who seriously reckons there will be a manufacturers' title battle???

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2023/wrc/lappi-dry-monte-would-be-simpler/

No not really, with M-Sport focusing all their efforts on Ott Tänak & Hyundai being Hyundai...I don't see them challenging Toyota in the manufacturers' title Imho.

[TypeR]

Hands down, such respect!
https://www.upload.ee/image/14842700/Screenshot_20230117_202250_Facebook.jpg

[Rallyest]

Im wondering, that is certain in my opinion that Toyota will win the MANU championship. But theoretically M-sport can be in the fight with Hyundai for second if Lappi and Breen cant deliver. If Tänak is able to fight for 1-2-3 places on all rallies, and loubet would be able to score constant points on 4-5 places or even a lucky first podium on some event and if M-sport is able to throw loeb into the mix next to Tänak. It is theoretically possible. But i guess we will see it more clearly after 4th or 5th rally.

[skarderud]

With a bigger Redbull support for M-sport (as team?) I think several RB-supported drivers could be seen in a puma this year, both Loeb and Mikkelsen, Fourmaux can get a drive if he do well in wrc2, witch other drivers without a seat but with RB support is around?

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[Neige]

I had a talk with Deividas Jocius about his start in 2020 Monte Carlo.

Quite a fascinating story, when he traveled to Wales rally GB with 13 broken bones after huge crash to discuss future plans with M-Sport...

I put the words in this arcticle:

http://rally-week.com/deividas-jocius-rallye-monte-carlo-20/

[manthey]

I had a talk with Deividas Jocius about his start in 2020 Monte Carlo.

Quite a fascinating story, when he traveled to Wales rally GB with 13 broken bones after huge crash to discuss future plans with M-Sport...

I put the words in this arcticle:

http://rally-week.com/deividas-jocius-rallye-monte-carlo-20/Nice interview!

When he said 4mln for Wrc, was referred to all season as private driver?

[Rally Hokkaido]

Hiroshi Seiki died here, yesterday. I think a lot of you would have seen him on the stages. To many of us he was a legend in APRC & WRC and a great person to have dinner and/or a drink or three together with! R.I.P. Seiki-san https://www.facebook.com/wrpseiki

[lmmjvss]

Any idea on how much it costs to redbull to sponsor all of those drivers in rally1 and 2?? I dont believe these guys are making tons of money. I'd bet is more about ideal (safety) free helmets and some Daily-Fee for footages?? Haha any idea?

[AnttiL]

With a bigger Redbull support for M-sport (as team?) I think several RB-supported drivers could be seen in a puma this year, both Loeb and Mikkelsen, Fourmaux can get a drive if he do well in wrc2, witch other drivers without a seat but with RB support is around?

I doubt we'll see anyone else than Tänak and Loubet driving the Puma with Red Bull colors.

[AnttiL]

Any idea on how much it costs to redbull to sponsor all of those drivers in rally1 and 2?? I dont believe these guys are making tons of money. I'd bet is more about ideal (safety) free helmets and some Daily-Fee for footages?? Haha any idea?

The "Red Bull athlete" sponsorship must not me that big, they have literally hundreds of athletes in countless disciplines and countless countries.

[sinepikohv]

Also bear in mind that RB is a part owner of the Promoter so especially easy for them to get deals done with WRC drivers.

[lmmjvss]

I dont know why but Im having this feeling that the rallyTV thing is a sign that redbull will jump out as the WRC Promoter in '24... They were doing well by just promoting "their athletes" in this year's Dakar and last year's American Motocross, instead of being behind the whole series, u'know? Idk, hope its just a random thought...
Edit: oh, add to that the new Dirt Fish's Live Center too... Idk, those stuff are looking like a shift in comand, no?

[EstWRC]

I don’t get this dude again

Most of the time it seems he is happy that Tänak joined the team but then again seems he doesn’t like it


https://twitter.com/wrcgerardquinn/status/1617791564889337859?s=46&t=szl3Z6G8pB5nMx9p8zmLqA

[bomber21]

I dont know why but Im having this feeling that the rallyTV thing is a sign that redbull will jump out as the WRC Promoter in '24... They were doing well by just promoting "their athletes" in this year's Dakar and last year's American Motocross, instead of being behind the whole series, u'know? Idk, hope its just a random thought...
Edit: oh, add to that the new Dirt Fish's Live Center too... Idk, those stuff are looking like a shift in comand, no?

Any promoter change would be good. The current one is not actually promoting the sport.
By the way, WRC e-shop is dead or almost dead?

[bomber21]

I just noticed that the link for the WRC eshop is removed from wrc.com and the eshop (I found it through google.com) has not been updated for long time.

[lmmjvss]

Haha kalle's insta description is cool hahaa "world rally champion and wanna be drifting king" haha now I reeeeally want to see Kalle doing more drifting. Cmoon red bull

[EstWRC]

Watching race of the champions and Solbergs won the nations cup again second year in a row. Oliver won all his races today and Thierry lost to Oliver in the final but won all the other races he contested.

Oliver didn’t hold back at all and said “it’s good to kick Neuvilles ass today”. Clear to see there is such a beef between them

Thierry came second in all star nation team together with F2 champion Felipe Drugovich

Based on today I would say tomorrow in the individual race Oliver and Thierry are definitely the favorites.

Loeb was quite underwhelming today but he couldn’t test the cars cause he only arrived today but I’m sure he will be good tomorrow and wouldn’t be surprised if he wins

[EstWRC]

Here is the Oliver vs Thierry race https://twitter.com/raceofchampions/status/1619333556295139328?s=46&t=48xaPQ7jTGVeFCPxTwk4Aw

[lmmjvss]

ROC Vibes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmq2_d8uxHI

[lmmjvss]

Cupra built this electric car for ROC too.... Its a rallycross/rally mix I guess??
Looks interesting in a way, tho its just a smalle Extreme-E / NItroRX car
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEcydI4yc5w

[lmmjvss]

Last year the QUATTRO beat the "AMAZING 1000HP ELECTRIC NITRO RX CAR THAT IS FASTER THAN A F1 CAR"...
This year the QUATTRO beat the Dakar Audi e-Tron Monster haha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C-tBmhpDq8

[ictus]

Last year the QUATTRO beat the "AMAZING 1000HP ELECTRIC NITRO RX CAR THAT IS FASTER THAN A F1 CAR"...
This year the QUATTRO beat the Dakar Audi e-Tron Monster haha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C-tBmhpDq8

I wonder how much "quattro" is in that quattro?? and don't forget the most important thing, or rather 4, black, round most important things...

[AnttiL]

I mapped Safari Rally 1993 from press/spectator guides and a very coarse map. The rally didn't have special stages per se but I marked the "competitive sections" as stages. Very challenging, interesting and rewarding mapping project.

https://www.rally-maps.com/Safari-Rally-1993

[fiscorpun]

I dont know why but Im having this feeling that the rallyTV thing is a sign that redbull will jump out as the WRC Promoter in '24... They were doing well by just promoting "their athletes" in this year's Dakar and last year's American Motocross, instead of being behind the whole series, u'know? Idk, hope its just a random thought...
Edit: oh, add to that the new Dirt Fish's Live Center too... Idk, those stuff are looking like a shift in comand, no?

DirtFish is not returning as American Rally Promoter.....
The RallyTV......the Live Center..... the ewrc partnership....
RedBull doing virtually NOTHING to promote WRC.... I wonder if Dirt Fish is getting its hands on WRC as next promoter

[AndyRAC]

To be honest, I've said before, I wonder how much influence Red Bull actually have with WRC Promoter. Other series they cover are far better....WRC seems like a continuation of ISC/NorthOne.....evolution rather than revolution. I expected a lot more from them.

[AnttiL]

Part four

https://twitter.com/AnttiL_WRC/status/1608918344555536384

11 Walter Röhrl
12 Hannu Mikkola
13 Jari-Matti Latvala
14 Petter Solberg
15 Ott Tänak
16 Mikko Hirvonen
17 Thierry Neuville
18 Björn Waldegård
19 Stig Blomqvist
20 Ari Vatanen

After Monte and Sweden, Tänak goes up two positions to #13, past Solberg and Latvala.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FoyWkp1X0AAs0Yw?format=jpg&name=900x900

[bomber21]

I just saw that WRC is following Lancia on Twitter…

[skarderud]

I just saw that WRC is following Lancia on Twitter…Lancia back in rally would be something!

I know Carlos Tavares (ceo Stellantis) has said in intervues that he want a brand in every class in rally, maybe that is the perfect way to make lancia comeback in the world market?

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[Jarek Z]

I don't get it. I remember reading a couple of years ago that the Lancia brand would disappear soon. They didn't have any new models and there was no marketing for this brand at all. Are they back now?

[skarderud]

I don't get it. I remember reading a couple of years ago that the Lancia brand would disappear soon. They didn't have any new models and there was no marketing for this brand at all. Are they back now?They have 1 model, ypsilon, only in italy.
Some says Lancia will be full EV when it comes back, with 3 new models based on other Stellantis models/platforms.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[fiscorpun]

Chicherit was racing a Lancia in World Rallycross.

Btw... The scandinavians are having some fun racing UTVs/SxS in Rally Sprint format.... I feel.theres "something" there.
https://youtu.be/kWBbgN5rIHA
In America red bull is runing a fun championship with these type of cars called Scrambles.

[manthey]

I don't get it. I remember reading a couple of years ago that the Lancia brand would disappear soon. They didn't have any new models and there was no marketing for this brand at all. Are they back now?Yes new models expected, they show Pu-Ra concept as main starting point of design (new Ypsilon, new Delta, new Aurelia)

[SubaruNorway]

Ahhhh, it's the same guy from Toyota holding a camera in my face at the podium in Finland once when i wanted to film, he seems easy to work with HAHA :rolleyes:
Slightly different at M-Sport.
https://youtu.be/XPH0X6cfj0U?t=1104

[fiscorpun]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm Extreme-E is going full rallycross in 2023. No more single car run as the qualy.
https://www.extreme-e.com/en/news/772_Extreme-E-reveals-supercharged-format-Season-3-sporting-format