Citroen WRT

[Gordini]

Will Loeb be allowed to win in 13, or priority on championchips for main drivers?

[tommeke_B]

If they wouldn't allow him to win, I don't think he would be competing... ;)

[A.F.F.]

Of course he is allowed to win and I assume he will be nominated for team points when driving too. And like tommeke_B said, he wouldn't be driving at all if not allowed to win.

[Mintexmemory]

More to the point will they have the cojones to tell Loeb to hold position against Mikko or Dani if either of them are leading by a small margin going into the last stage - and would he listen anyway?

Just for French fans - the car or the driver? If Ogier is fighting for the win with Mikko....

[vino_93]

Personally I don't care, I'm not of fan of Ogier and not of CItroen too. But I prefer Dani and Mikko as Ogier, so Citroen :) ... and most of all, Mads !

But in France, for sure interest of media in WRC will only exist if Ogier wins.

[Sulland]

Will be very interesting to see if Loeb will taste his own medicine of supporting the number 1 driver ?!
But his status whitin the team means that he probably will be allowed to do as he wants, and the other championship is the most important for PSA Sport.

[Plan9]

I think Loeb will be number 1 no matter what happens on the rallies he does. I am still not 100% sure they will not enter Loeb on another 4 rallies so he could win the title.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

I am still not 100% sure they will not enter Loeb on another 4 rallies so he could win the title.
Loeb would need a lot of results to go his way if he was to be World Champion on the back of just four events. For one, he'd need to win all four of them. And then he'd probably need everyone to have some serious problems at some point or other throughout the season.

No, I think the more interesting question is what Citroen will do with him if Mikko Hirvonen is embroiled in a tight championship fight come the Rally of France. It would be his home event and his last rally (for the foreseeable future; he might do half-seasons again in 2014 and beyond) at the WRC level, and a win there would be very popular - but forcing Hirvonen to play second fiddle to him could cost Hirvonen the title.

[Plan9]

True. I think he may do 8 rallies this season if Mikko doesn't dominate from Sweden (just my little guess). I just want to enjoy this season as I feel we are going to see what the drivers are really like without Leob being there all the time.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

I don't know ... I think Citroen will be eager to prove that they can win without Loeb, even if they don't say it outright.

Perhaps, if it comes down to it, they will tell Loeb that if he wins in France, then he wins in France. They won't attempt to stop him for the sake of Hirvonen's title bid, but nor will they give orders to Hirvonen.

[Mintexmemory]

I don't know ... I think Citroen will be eager to prove that they can win without Loeb, even if they don't say it outright.

Perhaps, if it comes down to it, they will tell Loeb that if he wins in France, then he wins in France. They won't attempt to stop him for the sake of Hirvonen's title bid, but nor will they give orders to Hirvonen.

What is this 'Hirvonen's title bid' of which you speak? A new Finnish book to rival '50 Shades' perhaps or some other work of fiction?

[A.F.F.]

It's a fictional movie script that shall never be filmed.....

[Prisoner Monkeys]

What is this 'Hirvonen's title bid' of which you speak?
Realistically, who else is going to win it?

Loeb is only doing four events. Ostberg and Neuville have the raw pace, but need work on their racecraft. Novikov is Novikov and is probably going to park it in the barriers sooner rather than later. Hanninen is only doing a limited campaign. Ogier and Latvala might have the works Polos at their disposal, but the team isn't expecting to fight for wins, much less the titles. And while Sordo is good, he can't hold a candle to the likes of Hirvonen.

[noel157]

"And while Sordo is good, he can't hold a candle to the likes of Hirvonen."

Wouldn't quite be so emphatic on that point if I were you.

And I wouldn't discount VW, they may not be title winning material yet but they can certainly influence the outcome.

[Mintexmemory]

As my erudite Irish friend has indicated it doesn't do to compare Sordo as dutiful No2 to Seb with Sordo 2013 edition 'If I don't win a rally this year I'm giving up'.
I don't see a lot of difference between them so far on the Monte and in a well-sorted car they are both behind Ogier with JML catching them. The doubt was, would VW hit the ground running - early days but stage wins would indicate they have.
Throw a consistent Ostberg and an improving Novikov into the mix and I'd say we have a completely open championship with wins having to be earned not inherited. Mikko is going to have to push more often than previously on his favoured events - and then there's tarmac.

[Mintexmemory]

It's a fictional movie script that shall never be filmed.....

:D :up:

[ilsit]

I can see Loeb doing the whole championship this year only if he thinks he can win it mind. I think he's using Monte Carlo and Sweden to see if the can compete against Volkswagen and seb 2.0

[dupanton]

I can see Loeb doing the whole championship this year only if he thinks he can win it mind. I think he's using Monte Carlo and Sweden to see if the can compete against Volkswagen and seb 2.0

I don't think so. Conclusions made on the results of Monte and Sweden are rubbish anyway, there are no further snow rallies to come :)

[Donney]

I think the fight within Citröen is going to be a killer this season. Hopefully there won't be any team orders until the end f the season if those are needed. Hirvonen and Sordo have their strong and their weak points, let's see who raises to the top.

[Gordini]

Contratule to Meeke and Ostberg with new job.
2014 will be fun, with no french and no finn!

[Mintexmemory]

Contratule to Meeke and Ostberg with new job.
2014 will be fun, with no french and no finn!

Vive l'entente cordiale - It's the best thing that the Citroen will have Union Jacks on it somewhere!!

[Plan9]

Now I glad I got that Citroen WRC T Shirt in Australia after all. I am so pleased to see that Kris now has a full season to show what he can do. I hope he finnishes plenty of events as the learning curve will be steep after so long out of full time competition. Relying on Rally2 will no longer be "good enough" for him as he will need to think about Drivers and Makes Championships and I hope he drives accordingly. All I know for certain, it will be a very exiciting season next year.

[Sulland]

Mads says he will be paid to drive for the first time in 14.
Good for him, payback to Adapta maybe? :p

[pantealex]

Question:

Only 1 team with 2 cars (3 in Sweden,Portugal,Sardinia and Catalonia when Al Qassimi is driving)

or

2 Teams ?

and if 2 Teams: Who is driving when Al Qassimi is not driving?

[kolin]

I hope that Citroen gives the opportunity for Tanak

[RICARDO75]

Citroën Racing will unveil its entire rally and track racing programme for 2014 today, at a press conference in Versailles. The event will be broadcast on the site http://www.citroen-wrc.com at 14:30 (GMT+1).

[MikeD]

Contratule to Meeke and Ostberg with new job.
2014 will be fun, with no french and no finn!

Vive l'entente cordiale - It's the best thing that the Citroen will have Union Jacks on it somewhere!!

Would really prefer it without both the Union Jack and Crash Meeke. You just know that Citroën isn't serious with the WRC commitment with that line-up.

[MikeD]

Question:

Only 1 team with 2 cars (3 in Sweden,Portugal,Sardinia and Catalonia when Al Qassimi is driving)

or

2 Teams ?

and if 2 Teams: Who is driving when Al Qassimi is not driving?

It looks like only one team this year. Al Qassimi will just drive in the 3rd car in the same team as Østberg and Meeke.

[Francis44]

Contratule to Meeke and Ostberg with new job.
2014 will be fun, with no french and no finn!

Vive l'entente cordiale - It's the best thing that the Citroen will have Union Jacks on it somewhere!!

Would really prefer it without both the Union Jack and Crash Meeke. You just know that Citroën isn't serious with the WRC commitment with that line-up.

Still, much better line-up than last year Sordo-Mikko duo. This team can atleast guarantee speed, because last years's duo wasn't able to guarantee neither speed or consistency.

[Sulland]

And if they need a quick course on how to master asphalt better, they can only ask Loeb or Muller, that are in the same team with Citroen Racing.

[Mirek]

Still, much better line-up than last year Sordo-Mikko duo. This team can atleast guarantee speed, because last years's duo wasn't able to guarantee neither speed or consistency.

Sorry but are You joking? I have nothing against Meeke and Ostberg but some common sense in Your statement would be welcome...

You said Sordo and Hirvonen couldn't guarantee speed and consistency...

Together they won 16 WRC events (15 Hirvonen, 1 Sordo) and reached 102 WRC podiums (66 Hirvonen, 36 Sordo). They finished on WRC podium in 39% of all their starts (44% Hirvonen, 33% Sordo). Hirvonen finished 84% of events he started, Sordo 83%. All stats including starts with lower tier cars.

Fact is that Ostberg and Meeke are nowhere near that record. Of course they can do well but praising them as clearly better than Hirvonen and Sordo is at the moment very very exaggerated.

[Eli]

did they change their livery for next year?

[Francis44]

Still, much better line-up than last year Sordo-Mikko duo. This team can atleast guarantee speed, because last years's duo wasn't able to guarantee neither speed or consistency.

Sorry but are You joking? I have nothing against Meeke and Ostberg but some common sense in Your statement would be welcome...

You said Sordo and Hirvonen couldn't guarantee speed and consistency...

Together they won 16 WRC events (15 Hirvonen, 1 Sordo) and reached 102 WRC podiums (66 Hirvonen, 36 Sordo). They finished on WRC podium in 39% of all their starts (44% Hirvonen, 33% Sordo). Hirvonen finished 84% of events he started, Sordo 83%. All stats including starts with lower tier cars.

Fact is that Ostberg and Meeke are nowhere near that record. Of course they can do well but praising them as clearly better than Hirvonen and Sordo is at the moment very very exaggerated.

Clearly statistics support your opinion. However looking at last year Mikko had an abnormal number of mistakes, and so did Sordo.
Looking at last years results solo paints a very different picture
Let's not talk about speed either, because that was even worse.

[makinen_fan]

did they change their livery for next year?

Not based on the first team photos published
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BbnOCwVIQAAM9Aw.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BbnQfdkIEAAmCiu.jpg

[mousti]

Still, much better line-up than last year Sordo-Mikko duo. This team can atleast guarantee speed, because last years's duo wasn't able to guarantee neither speed or consistency.

Sorry but are You joking? I have nothing against Meeke and Ostberg but some common sense in Your statement would be welcome...

You said Sordo and Hirvonen couldn't guarantee speed and consistency...

Together they won 16 WRC events (15 Hirvonen, 1 Sordo) and reached 102 WRC podiums (66 Hirvonen, 36 Sordo). They finished on WRC podium in 39% of all their starts (44% Hirvonen, 33% Sordo). Hirvonen finished 84% of events he started, Sordo 83%. All stats including starts with lower tier cars.

Fact is that Ostberg and Meeke are nowhere near that record. Of course they can do well but praising them as clearly better than Hirvonen and Sordo is at the moment very very exaggerated.

Clearly statistics support your opinion. However looking at last year Mikko had an abnormal number of mistakes, and so did Sordo.
Looking at last years results solo paints a very different picture
Let's not talk about speed either, because that was even worse.
And Ostberg's season was so much better then? :D

[Barreis]

Rolls should be counted next season...

[Frostmourne]

Contratule to Meeke and Ostberg with new job.
2014 will be fun, with no french and no finn!

Vive l'entente cordiale - It's the best thing that the Citroen will have Union Jacks on it somewhere!!

Would really prefer it without both the Union Jack and Crash Meeke. You just know that Citroën isn't serious with the WRC commitment with that line-up.

I also felt that Citroen with that lineup maybe not taking this season seriously. Mads wont be their favorite on tarmac events, I am not sure how Kris perform on tarmac, is he fast on tarmac as well? From this year lineup, it seems both M-Sport and Citroen does not have a tarmac expert driver.

Also, any news from today press of Citroen Racing about their program in WRC in the forthcoming years?

[er88]

Yes Kris Meeke has been fast all his career on tarmac. We need to wait to see if he will carry that into WRC with Citreon but he will comfortably faster than Mads on the black stuff. BTW where were you Frostmourne in 2009,2010 when Meeke was in irc , did you not follow irc no ;)? He won ypres on his first attempt and his performance on the 2nd day in Samero 2009 was superb to win him the championship. I await to be shot down by some on here, but with Thierry and Dani Sordo both in hyundai il state IMO Meeke will be 2nd fastest driver on tarmac next year- close with Jari-Matti.

[RS]

I also felt that Citroen with that lineup maybe not taking this season seriously. Mads wont be their favorite on tarmac events, I am not sure how Kris perform on tarmac, is he fast on tarmac as well? From this year lineup, it seems both M-Sport and Citroen does not have a tarmac expert driver.


Let's face it; Citroen weren't going to win either title with the team of Mikko and Dani. They won't win either with Meeke and Ostberg either but at least it's a different strategy, and besides I don't see anyone available who could take on Ogier and VW unless Loeb wanted to make a comeback.

Maybe Kubica will be nominated for tarmac rounds for Ford?

[PLuto]

Let's face it; Citroen weren't going to win either title with the team of Mikko and Dani. They won't win either with Meeke and Ostberg either but at least it's a different strategy, and besides I don't see anyone available who could take on Ogier and VW unless Loeb wanted to make a comeback.

Maybe Kubica will be nominated for tarmac rounds for Ford?

I think Kubica will be registered as different team.

[Allar]

Maybe Kubica will be nominated for tarmac rounds for Ford?
Why you guys think that Kubica is so good? I think he can be happy if he can do better season than Kimi did.

[er88]

Maybe Kubica will be nominated for tarmac rounds for Ford?
Why you guys think that Kubica is so good? I think he can be happy if he can do better season than Kimi did.

I too believe Kubica is overated by many. He has potential but people expecting anything great from him next year will probably be let down. However, i think RS was alluding to the fact that kubica will more than likely do a better job than Evans on tarmac more than him personally thinking Kubica is great already. I could be wrong though :)? But Msport will be really weak if its Mikko and Evans on all tarmac rallies next year...

[RS]

However, i think RS was alluding to the fact that kubica will more than likely do a better job than Evans on tarmac more than him personally thinking Kubica is great already

Correct. And possibly Mikko too but it would depend on him being able to keep it on the road for a whole rally.

[danon]

I too believe Kubica is overrated by many... I could be wrong though :)? ...

I believe that if life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade... And try to find somebody whose life has given them vodka, and have a party.
Ron White

make up you mind, kid

[Prisoner Monkeys]

did they change their livery for next year?

Not based on the first team photos published
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BbnOCwVIQAAM9Aw.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BbnQfdkIEAAmCiu.jpg
Am I the only one who thinks the C-Elysee livery looks ghastly?

[Miika]

Am I the only one who thinks the C-Elysee livery looks ghastly?

Looks more like a plain testing livery, and hopefully is one.

[OldF]

New boss, new people.

http://www.maxrally.com/2013/12/17/citr ... eplacement (http://www.maxrally.com/2013/12/17/citroen-signs-kubica-replacement)

[Sulland]

Will Lefebvre survive as a C3 driver, or should they do the same as M-Sport has done with Camilli, let him mature in WRC2?

[er88]

Will Lefebvre survive as a C3 driver, or should they do the same as M-Sport has done with Camilli, let him mature in WRC2?
Should be binned for Andreas now. Put him in a R5 or even the ds3 for the rest of the season.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Sulland]

Now Lefebvre has ben given enough chances, he need to go R5 NOW!

[pantealex]

Now Lefebvre has ben given enough chances, he need to go R5 NOW!

and he is OUT

[Sulland]

Any more news on Mikkelsens C3 test?

- More film?
- Comments from driver?
- Comments from team?

How many test-km did he end up with getting?

[Sulland]

Would a Reiger set-up be a bolt on solution, that the team could put on a test mule to compare differences with current dampers?
Or would they need to adjust anything mechanically on the car?

[N.O.T]

change the title into arab mobile billboard of nobodies....

[dimviii]

Would a Reiger set-up be a bolt on solution, that the team could put on a test mule to compare differences with current dampers?
Or would they need to adjust anything mechanically on the car?

its not so simple.

[Fly]

Matton on Belgian TV now: "I think there is a future for Andreas at Citroen. Discussions are on"

[Watson]

Toyota made really fat points this weekend. There is a 46 points gap between them and Citroen now. They need a miracle not to come last the way it is going.

[mknight]

Matton on Belgian TV now: "I think there is a future for Andreas at Citroen. Discussions are on"

Question is if Andreas thinks the same. Probably yes for this year, but for next?

EDIT: Paddon has contract for 2018 (last year)
Hanninen only has a deal for this year

So prbly the negotiations are between Citroen and Toyota. (Provided Ogier stays where he is)

[sonnybobiche]

Ogier said he would leave if Ford didn't come in as a works team, and that is apparently looking iffy.

[bugwrx]

where is he leaving ?

[Watson]

where is he leaving ?
That is the question. I hope Ford are not gambling on it because the guy knows what he's worth and according to Wilson M-Sport won't be able to afford that without backing from Ford for another year. I guess he would go to Citroen if Ford doesn't pay up.

It's really silly they wouldn't even have to invest THAT much. Just pay his wages and make sure M-Sport have enough dough to keep the Fiesta at a similar level as the i20. But they miserably failed before when Sainz and McRae were forced to leave because of late decisions in 2002 and then Märtin and Duval in 2004. Ford have some real slow people in their offices. Also look at the crashing and burning of the F1 Jaguar project. They always have huge potential, invest too little too late and make a complete faff of it.

[Allez Andruet]

Question is if Andreas thinks the same. Probably yes for this year, but for next?
He probably isn't in a position to dictate...

[Lundefaret]

Would a Reiger set-up be a bolt on solution, that the team could put on a test mule to compare differences with current dampers?
Or would they need to adjust anything mechanically on the car?

To pin the Citroën handling issues on Öhlins is in my opinion wrong.
Then you need to know how a damper manufacturer works for a works team.
Öhlins can build Citroën any damper they want.

Its obvious that the Citroën is a very fast rally car. But its also obvious that it has a narrow operating window, or a small envelope. Andreas performance - or lack of - showed that in Sardinia.

What causes this is - in my mind - is not just a "couple of clicks" or "a set of Reigers" away to be fixed, but something more fundamental.

This can be a design strategy, this can be a damper strategy, it can be geometry, it can be many things. But one thing is for sure, is thats its not an easy fix.
But on the other hand, Citroën Sport has some of the Worlds best engineers, so they have a good chance.

I think Andreas drive in Citroën was very important, and (even though I thought he would fight at the top at once) I must give him credit for having the big balls that is needed to drive within your comfort zone. That takes some real guts.
But this is important, because now Citroën can see what a top of the level driver - that comes from the best modern WRC car - will think of the Citroën. And that gives Citroën something to work on from.

Kris Meeke is a hell of a fast driver, and is - like his Irish and British speed colleagues that has just finished this years Isle Of Man TT - willing to lay his neck on the line every time. When you have an attitude that would bacically mean that you would drive a even a wheel barrow fast (and have a reputation for crashing) that can mean that you camouflage problems - so the engineers dont know how big they are.
And when your two other drivers are young (though in Breens case very, very talented), they dont have the experience to say what is good and what is not. They have no bench mark.

Bringing Andreas in is the logical solution, and in my mind that would mean Lefebvre would sit on the bench. He needs a lot more development before he is ready to tackle the WRC, and the trio Andreas, Meeke, and Breen would be very good.

[Allez Andruet]

Mikkelsen to replace Meeke in Poland!!! WOW!!!

[dimviii]

http://int-media.citroen.com/en/citroën-racing-already-focusing-poland/

[wrc2017]

Hard to see the logic.. for me this shows what a mess Citroen are in.
Mikkelsen to replace Meeke in Poland!!! WOW!!!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Meeke dropped for Poland.

[Allez Andruet]

Hard to see the logic.. for me this shows what a mess Citroen are in.

Totally agree. Yes, the results have been disastrous, but it's really hard to see the advantage of running Lefebvre instead of Meeke under any conditions.

[mknight]

Quite drastic for Meeke. But maybe he needs some change of mind.

EDIT: The last 3 rallies he was told to just focus on single events and crashed 4 times in them. Surely it's not a good idea to continue like that?

4 days of testing sound like a very good idea. It also confirms what Lundefaret wrote above, they need some other input to improve the car. This is confirmed by the fact that Meeke is not to take part in the test.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/june-2017/meeke-poland/page/4618--12-12-.html

[dimviii]

Hard to see the logic.. for me this shows what a mess Citroen are in.

sounds so strange for me too.

[mknight]

Tbh there is quite a lot of info in the Citroen release, both written and in-between the lines:

"Before the start, we asked our drivers to make it to the end of the rally. I don't think we were wrong to think that if they managed to do that, we would end up with two cars in the top five," explained Yves Matton, Citroën Racing Team Principal. "Unfortunately, Kris was unable to adopt the pace required to have an error-free race. After the opening stages, he felt comfortable in the car and said that his pace was consistent with the targets set. Clearly, he has failed to maintain it."

[Eli]

Well that didn't take long, will it help Citroen/Meeke/both? what do you think guys?

[mknight]

Well that didn't take long, will it help Citroen/Meeke/both? what do you think guys?

Things can't get any worse can they? I thing it's good they try drastic changes.

Much better than telling Meeke after Corsica that he should just push and go for single even wins. I.e. you don't tell a drunk to get in better mood by buying some beers.

[wrc2017]

Ive also just heard from a contact in service area, that some Citroen engineers have been sacked.

[Eli]

Tbh, surprisingly (now it isn't but at the beginning of the season it was) Citroen are the most disappointing team this season. They had the most time to test the car, it didn't seem to have any issues while testing and at the end come round 8, they sit last in the manu. table with Breen leading their way. They probably left out Meeke in Poland for the same reason they have Lefebvre here, Meeke hasn't done the rally last year while the 2 others have done the rally & finished,sort of so....and Mikkelsen won the rally last year and if he gets a proper testing session before hand we might be able to see some improvement next time out in Poland.

[BigWorm]

Totally the right thing to do. This will do well for both parties.

[mknight]

Ive also just heard from a contact in service area, that some Citroen engineers have been sacked.

^^ Talking about drastic changes.

Were they arguing with Breen, Lefebvre etc. that the car and setup is just fine?

In that light it might actually be a blessing for Lefebvre that Mikkelsen came around. Else it might have destroyed his starting career. (He was not much worse than Breen last year).

Btw. what is FX doing? Only building Polo R5? Think his phone is ringing already?

[Watson]

Totally agree. Yes, the results have been disastrous, but it's really hard to see the advantage of running Lefebvre instead of Meeke under any conditions.
It's not because they think Lefebvre is quicker, it's to enable Meeke to get over whatever is going wrong in his head.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Shame but too many accidents in 2017 and it cant go on..

[wrc2017]

Matton says he will be back for Finland.

Wonder will they be asking him for a top 5 or a win????

Pathetic really.


Shame but too many accidents in 2017 and it cant go on..

[AnttiL]

They probably left out Meeke in Poland for the same reason they have Lefebvre here, Meeke hasn't done the rally last year while the 2 others have done the rally & finished,sort of so....and Mikkelsen won the rally last year and if he gets a proper testing session before hand we might be able to see some improvement next time out in Poland.

This. Lefebvre was actually quite impressive in Poland last year.

Let's see how Mikkelsen improves his speed. At least now it should be a rally he can be fast on.

[macebig]

So, Citroen is now starting to get desperate and gamble...I think Matton's head is hanging from a very thin rope...Especially if he is the only obstacle in a theoritical Ogier comeback...

[BigWorm]

At least Meeke sees the problem himself and accepts the proposition, very decent of him.

[mknight]

At least Meeke sees the problem himself and accepts the proposition, very decent of him.

Wut, what choice does he have? It's not like he can force himself to the cockpit.


When was the last time a lead driver was "rested"?

Duval comes to mind.

[wrc2017]

Im quite sure the reality is different from the press release..
At least Meeke sees the problem himself and accepts the proposition, very decent of him.

[BigWorm]

Wut, what choice does he have? It's not like he can force himself to the cockpit.



Duval comes to mind.

Well what I've read it was a suggestion from Matton, not a demand. But it's probably just for the sake of PR. I'm no expert on contracts (far from), just thought as long he has signed to do the rounds he has the legal right to do so.


Im quite sure the reality is different from the press release..

Yeah, probably.

[Andre Oliveira]

I can't see Ogier signing with Citroën with that joke (team, car, chief).

I will be not surprised if Citroën goes out WRC in the end of the season.

[Andre Oliveira]

If Andreas fails. They hire Loeb and Sainz ;)

[[RMC]Pip]

After this move by Citroen, I just can't see Meeke in WRC overall next season. Very unfortunate, a likeable driver who is always a pleasure to watch driving. Too bad he bins it way too often.

[Sulland]

Mikkelsen due to below text from Citroen need to test and work with, for him new engineers, to get the set-up of car and chemistry with the engineers to improve pace.
Maybe to get an appartment close to HQ, to be at Citroen Racing HQ to speed up the team bonding prosess would be a good idea.

Andreas' approach has been constructive and positive. Following the day of pre-event testing, we knew that the C3 WRC would need to be adapted to his driving style, which doesn't involve left-foot braking at all. Clearly, that takes time and so this rally became something of a prolonged test session. More than the actual result – eighth overall – we think we did some good work together. He managed to identify the points we need to work on first and foremost, and to achieve some initial improvements."

[wrc2017]

I cant see Citroen in WRC at this rate.
Pip;1141956']After this move by Citroen, I just can't see Meeke in WRC overall next season. Very unfortunate, a likeable driver who is always a pleasure to watch driving. Too bad he bins it way too often.

[AnttiL]

Maybe their budget can't stand another Meeke crash?

[dimviii]

Dani Sordo
Sad to see that @krismeeke will not be in Poland. I am sure that Finland will be the Meeke of truth! All my friend Apollo!

[bassist]

I think this is another way of saying, "Enough is Enough Kris" Bloody shame, he's sadly not as good as his mentor !!!

[Francis44]

Funny how everyone is jumping on Meeke when he was the only one with decent results this season in that car, a win in Mexico and he should have had two if the car didn't break down in Corsica. Whatever, let's see If Mikkelsen turns that car around.

[AndyRAC]

Not totally surprising news - I still find it disappointing. Yes, he's made mistakes - but he's not helped by the car having major issues. Finishing 5,6,7th place is of no use to Citroen as they'll learn nothing for the future. He's the only Citroen driver to show rally winning pace. What will Lefebvre offer? Lower Top 10 pace - if he doesn't bin it. Mikkelsen is still getting to know the car, but you would expect improvement - but rally challenging pace?? Hmm....wait and see...

However, if Kris comes back in Finland refreshed and performs well; then it was the right decision....

[Simmi]

Not totally surprising news - I still find it disappointing. Yes, he's made mistakes - but he's not helped by the car having major issues. Finishing 5,6,7th place is of no use to Citroen as they'll learn nothing for the future. He's the only Citroen driver to show rally winning pace. What will Lefebvre offer? Lower Top 10 pace - if he doesn't bin it. Mikkelsen is still getting to know the car, but you would expect improvement - but rally challenging pace?? Hmm....wait and see...

However, if Kris comes back in Finland refreshed and performs well; then it was the right decision....

Completely agree with this. I just think with 7 offs in 7 rallies though you're in such unprecedented territory - it kind of demands action. Like in any job, you can be full of potential but if you mess up that badly, that many times... I don't think Citroen can be blamed. Like others have said they are painfully aware of what they have in Lefebvre. This is maybe just a bit of a mercy move for Kris.

Would be gutting if Meeke has thrown his career away here and doesn't get a drive next year. Again though you can let Kris off on a couple of these accidents. What I found slightly worrying was that he didn't admit to making mistakes in Sweden and Argentina. He just blamed these on car issues. And I'll say it again for the tenth time, having an ill-handling car doesn't excuse you from rolling it into a ball every rally.

If Meeke can find a way to reset then I hope this break helps him. Get him an R5 car and send him to Ypres or something!

[Munkvy]

Andreas is definitely logical for Poland, with his proven ability there he had to be in the car. And they have no reason to bench Breen who is doing the best with a bad lot. They may well have felt they couldn't bench Lefebvre two rallies in a row, plus this is that one really large warning bell for Meeke to sort his sh*t out and learn to balance his approach when he can't keep up for whatever reason.

But I think that Citroen press release tells us something more interesting:

"Andreas' approach has been constructive and positive. Following the day of pre-event testing, we knew that the C3 WRC would need to be adapted to his driving style, which doesn't involve left-foot braking at all".

Andreas doesn't left foot brake. Surely he has to be the only top line driver who doesn't? Seems very unusual in this era of cars and gearboxes, I can't understand why he wouldn't...?

[SubaruNorway]

Andreas is definitely logical for Poland, with his proven ability there he had to be in the car. And they have no reason to bench Breen who is doing the best with a bad lot. They may well have felt they couldn't bench Lefebvre two rallies in a row, plus this is that one really large warning bell for Meeke to sort his sh*t out and learn to balance his approach when he can't keep up for whatever reason.

But I think that Citroen press release tells us something more interesting:

"Andreas' approach has been constructive and positive. Following the day of pre-event testing, we knew that the C3 WRC would need to be adapted to his driving style, which doesn't involve left-foot braking at all".

Andreas doesn't left foot brake. Surely he has to be the only top line driver who doesn't? Seems very unusual in this era of cars and gearboxes, I can't understand why he wouldn't...?

He obviously uses his left fot to brake, what they mean is brake and throttle at the same time to stabilize the car in certain corners. If you have a well balanced car you shouldn't need it.

[N.O.T]

Unfotunatelly for meeke he never reached the level to be considered a good option for a manufacturer, he is just like latvala but without daddys money or a manager with connections.

his style will be missed but i think its time for him to go home.

[Mirek]

He obviously uses his left fot to brake, what they mean is brake and throttle at the same time to stabilize the car in certain corners. If you have a well balanced car you shouldn't need it.

This.

I think that a lot of drivers don't use left foot braking with active center differential at least that is what I heard from some Czech drivers in the past (about 2.0 WRC cars). Some said they had to learn not to do that when they switched to active cars.

Now I'm speaking clearly theoretically but in my opinion if there is properly set active center differential there is no need for left foot braking at all. It only causes brakes to heat up more and to be generally less efficient (due to simple energy equation).

[dimviii]

left foot braking together with gas pedal, is not for not well balanced cars.

[wrc2017]

Unfotunatelly for meeke he never reached the level to be considered a good option for a manufacturer, he is just like latvala but without daddys money or a manager with connections.

his style will be missed but i think its time for him to go home.
until finland.

[Mirek]

left foot braking together with gas pedal, is not for not well balanced cars.

For me it's more surprising that all Citroën drivers do that (based on that press release). Maybe it's because none of Citroën drivers was involved in active WRC era (I don't count several Meeke's starts with private Subaru). I'm really just a theoretical guy but this maybe another miscalculation from Citroën in choosing their driver line-up, especially for development.

[nafpaktos]

Food for thought,so Andreas was not using left foot braking when he <should> do it(with the old wrc genereration)nontheless he was top driver.

[bluuford]

Finally, some proper decisions by Matton.

[mknight]

the 3 ex VW drivers end up developing one each of the other 3 cars.

Toyota looked terrible before Latvala came
Ford was good but slower than Hyundai, first in Portugal after considerable complaining and testing from Ogier it seems to have matched them (both Ogier and Tanak were fastest there)
Now Mikkelsen with C3. Off course it's no guaranteed he will improve it, but at min. he should be able to tell them what is bad about it.

[KKS]

Citroens problem is - Matton. How many drivers developed Polo wrc? Are they world champions and fully experienced? And who developed C3? - Meeke by himself. Matton should hire some experiences test-driver in 2016 to improve a car. Did they do that? - No.
From first rally of 2017 he said that in this year Citroen didn't care about championships, but more on rally wins. And now he blaming Meeke for low points at manu. championship?
Leferbve... it's a joke. Matton - you not Wilson who need a money and could take even a Duval if he pays for his drive.
And now, car was undriveable and it's proven by Breen, Mikkelsen and Meeke and he blaming just one driver. Invite Loeb for one day test and he told you. Did you do that? - nope.
And Citroen have 4th car. They can use Mikkelsen without pulling out Meeke. They do that? - Nope.

Too many strange decisions from Matton.

[stefanvv]

Citroen should throw away this season and focus for the next, deja vu...

[wrc2017]

Well said. Many very good points.
Citroens problem is - Matton. How many drivers developed Polo wrc? Are they world champions and fully experienced? And who developed C3? - Meeke by himself. Matton should hire some experiences test-driver in 2016 to improve a car. Did they do that? - No.
From first rally of 2017 he said that in this year Citroen didn't care about championships, but more on rally wins. And now he blaming Meeke for low points at manu. championship?
Leferbve... it's a joke. Matton - you not Wilson who need a money and could take even a Duval if he pays for his drive.
And now, car was undriveable and it's proven by Breen, Mikkelsen and Meeke and he blaming just one driver. Invite Loeb for one day test and he told you. Did you do that? - nope.
And Citroen have 4th car. They can use Mikkelsen without pulling out Meeke. They do that? - Nope.

Too many strange decisions from Matton.

[macebig]

Yes, Yves has lost the ball.It all started from backing Loeb instead of Ogier and Neuville and things have only got worse.And even with Loeb, Matton managed to have a fall out during the closing stages of the 2015 WTCC season and drove him away too.So, Matton managed to piss off every top class rally driver he had and somehow he still has a job.Génial, as they say in Paris...

[Rally Power]

Meeke wasn’t helping Citroen with his ‘kamikaze’ driving. This leave may help him to get back stronger. Fingers crossed for him.

From Portugal PET I’ve watched I honestly believed C3’s handling issues could be solved with a proper set up but that’s not the case and like many of you are saying for a long time, it became obvious there’s something fundamentally wrong in the car (probably related to new diff, as dampers problems doesn’t seem that hard to fix).

Anyway it's also true that Citroen Racing management doesn’t look good at the picture. Taking 8 months to get Mikkelsen (since VW pull out) and probably a lot more to solve tech issues that should never exist, after last year long development stage, seems to be a huge waste of time.

Having the Dakar experience in mind (a total flop in Peugeot ’15 debut but a serious progress after, becoming a dominating force the next years), we can only hope that PSA leader’s will soon provide more resources to the WRC program and enable Citroen to get who they really need: Ogier.

[Munkvy]

He obviously uses his left fot to brake, what they mean is brake and throttle at the same time to stabilize the car in certain corners. If you have a well balanced car you shouldn't need it.

That depends on if you like to balance weight transfer. A well balanced car doesn't stop the laws of physics. I am not a professional driver, and my centre diff isn't fully active, although it is does use maps, but definitely LFB is important for balancing a car on loose surfaces, especially if you are driving on mixed surfaces, ie tarmac with some gravel. Hence I am surprised that he doesn't use LFB.

[steve.mandzij]

Unfotunatelly for meeke he never reached the level to be considered a good option for a manufacturer, he is just like latvala but without daddys money or a manager with connections.

his style will be missed but i think its time for him to go home.
You're obviously talking out of your ass. Meeke has had a terrible year but he's been picked by manufacturers twice now, Mini in 2012 and Citroen now. He had the level but he's fallen back.

As for Latvala that's just untrue. He's not only shown maturity and consistency but speed as well. 17 wins don't come easily, and he's proven to have helped Toyota get to where it is now, easily competitive enough to put up a fight against any other.

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[mknight]

Food for thought,so Andreas was not using left foot braking when he <should> do it(with the old wrc genereration)nontheless he was top driver.

There is an interview linked in the Sardinia thread from saturday.

Mikkelsen says something like: " The car needs a very different driving style and I am not sure I want to change mine that much. From my experience (with Seb) at VW I know it's faster". It was quite clear he meant Ogier.

Also Latvala at the end of last year after VW left said that he was trying to copy Ogier too much, both his driving style and setup and it didn't work.

Reading this together with the Citroen press-releas makes me think that Ogier doesn't really use LFB either and that Latvala tried to copy it and it didn't quite work for him.

Note that Mikkelsen decimated WRC2 (Sunninen, Tidemand, Camilli...). Don't expect he used LFB there either.

[Zeakiwi]

Matton might get on the phone to Henning Solberg (with his active diff experience from the 307) and tee up a test with two C3 wrc cars with Mikkelsen with different settings down the same piece of road. Get a lot of setting data in a short amount of time.

[mknight]

The press release says 4 day test with Mikkelsen, Breen and Lefevbre, quite massive. Also there are some limits on amount of testdays for all teams.

[Archie Gillaine]

And to think they spent a year getting ready so they could dominate in 2017; then turned up to Monte not ready.......

[TWRC]

Meeke wasn’t helping Citroen with his ‘kamikaze’ driving. This leave may help him to get back stronger. Fingers crossed for him.

From Portugal PET I’ve watched I honestly believed C3’s handling issues could be solved with a proper set up but that’s not the case and like many of you are saying for a long time, it became obvious there’s something fundamentally wrong in the car (probably related to new diff, as dampers problems doesn’t seem that hard to fix).

Anyway it's also true that Citroen Racing management doesn’t look good at the picture. Taking 8 months to get Mikkelsen (since VW pull out) and probably a lot more to solve tech issues that should never exist, after last year long development stage, seems to be a huge waste of time.

Having the Dakar experience in mind (a total flop in Peugeot ’15 debut but a serious progress after, becoming a dominating force the next years), we can only hope that PSA leader’s will soon provide more resources to the WRC program and enable Citroen to get who they really need: Ogier.
The Dakar program was basically saved by Jean-Claude Vaucard (designer of Xsara WRC and 205 T16 among others), who worked with them for a week, pointed out what they should change, and then left. They did 80% of what he required for 2016, and the remaining things fo this year. Point is, they won after he had his input on the car. So hopefully Citroën can get him in on a similar deal like that.

[Munkvy]

Makes you wonder what it will take to get Loeb back in the car for a day or two...?

[seb_sh]

Makes you wonder what it will take to get Loeb back in the car for a day or two...?

I doubt getting any driver for a day or two would help that much. Latvala did a massive amount of km last year with the Yaris in order to improve it. Even if you argue Loeb or whoever is so much better at setup it will still take him at least a few days to get a base setup and understand the car and then subsequent tests to come up with improvement ideas and verify them.

About Citroen, in general it's way late but at least Matton admitted he has to change something, but as others have pointed out the whole venture was not the best organised. I'm not sure how many drivers helped develop the car but if you look at all the other teams they had several drivers drive the cars at various points whereas at Citroen it seems it was mainly Meeke.

[AnttiL]

Citroen has had a different driver/car line-up for every rally now

Monte: Meeke&Lefebvre C3, Breen DS3
Sweden: Meeke&Breen C3, Levebvre DS3
Mexico: Meeke&Lefebvre C3
Corsica: Meeke&Breen&Lefebvre C3
Argentina: Meeke&Breen C3
Portugal: Meeke&Breen&Lefebvre&Al-Qassimi C3
Sardinia: Meeke&Breen&Mikkelsen C3
Poland: Mikkelsen&Breen&Lefebvre C3

perhaps again something different for Finland? Maybe the normal three drivers and Mikkelsen in fourth car?

[EstWRC]

And to think they spent a year getting ready so they could dominate in 2017; then turned up to Monte not ready.......

THIS! i just don get it what has happened, the car looked great in testing videos and they were testing their asses off. Every time Meeke contested last year he repeated: "Just wait till you see me in the 17 car".

what has happened between the end of the last season and beginning of this season? something must have gone so wrong.

and now to dump Meeke for poland is idiotic IMO. i dont see how he will be getting better sitting a round out. They should dump Lefebvre or put him in the 16 car.

but what do i know.

[AnttiL]

and now to dump Meeke for poland is idiotic IMO. i dont see how he will be getting better sitting a round out. They should dump Lefebvre or put him in the 16 car.

there's clear logic in this: Meeke didn't contest in Poland last year, but Breen and Lefebvre did, and set some decent times there. Meanwhile, it also makes sense to put Mikkelsen in one of the cars, because he won the event last year.

My own idea is that perhaps Citroen's budget is running out and they cannot afford anymore crashes? We must remember that in addition to Meeke's rolls, Lefebvre has had a crash of some sort in all his events of this year. Maybe that's why Mikkelsen was so cautious, he was told to make sure the car finishes? or he was promised a new drive if he finishes?

[EstWRC]

ok fair enough. i didnt remember that he didnt contest in poland last year but i still think it wont change much. i really hope it does

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Citroen driver transition: Meekelsen...

[Rally Power]

The Dakar program was basically saved by Jean-Claude Vaucard (designer of Xsara WRC and 205 T16 among others), who worked with them for a week, pointed out what they should change, and then left. They did 80% of what he required for 2016, and the remaining things fo this year. Point is, they won after he had his input on the car. So hopefully Citroën can get him in on a similar deal like that.

Interesting! No idea that JC Vaucard played a major role on the 2008 evolution (thought it was mainly due to Peterhansel efforts). He’s a remarkable technician and like you’ve said it’d be great to see him giving a hand to Citroen, ASAP.

Still, I believe Citroen should do everything to get Ogier next year; he’s really a game changer.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Very embarrassing for the team and drivers

[br21]

One thing is sure - it shows how valuable is to judge the performance of the cars from testing videos:)))

[dimviii]

One thing is sure - it shows how valuable is to judge the performance of the cars from testing videos:)))

judging was at asphalt tests,and at Corse we saw exactly the same as at tests.A fast c3 and a slow yaris.
Of course plenty can change due to evolving through the season.

[AnttiL]

judging was at asphalt tests,and at Corse we saw exactly the same as at tests.A fast c3 and a slow yaris.

A slow Yaris which won the power stage...Hänninen also made some fast times when he wasn't busy crashing.

[cali]

A slow Yaris which won the power stage...Hänninen also made some fast times when he wasn't busy crashing.
He is talking about tarmac. Different surfaces.

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[steve.mandzij]

He is talking about tarmac. Different surfaces.

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Exactly. Latvala won the PS.

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[dimviii]

Exactly. Latvala won the PS.

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yes when everything is decided.

[steve.mandzij]

yes when everything is decided.
No, both Ogier and Latvala overtook Sordo and Breen respectively on the final stage.

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[dimviii]

No, both Ogier and Latvala overtook Sordo and Breen respectively on the final stage.

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Sordo had setup problems at whole rally.
Some stage comments to see how difficult was to overpass Sordo at this rally.

#6
Sordo Dani - Martí Marc
"It's like before in the rally, everything was strange here. I'm happy with third place."
The feel with the car is like yesterday. I don't know whether the stage time is going to be good or bad at the finish. It's a bit like a lottery.
"I can't do better. For me I can't do better. I'm at maximum, maximum, maximum. But it's still not good
"I tried to push but it's not so good
"In this stage I pushed more and the time appears to be worse than I was expecting. It's difficult to work out the driving style that's required
"The worst stage in my life – unbelievable. I can't push and was really slow. By kilometre three, I just wanted to get to the end of the stage
"I try a different style of driving and we have a little bit of understeer in the corners. The feeling is not bad but the times aren't what we expect."
"In some places I didn't feel very comfy in the car and I didn't have the confidence. Some places were a little bit damp as well."

[steve.mandzij]

Sordo had setup problems at whole rally.
Some stage comments to see how difficult was to overpass Sordo at this rally.

#6
Sordo Dani - Martí Marc
"It's like before in the rally, everything was strange here. I'm happy with third place."
The feel with the car is like yesterday. I don't know whether the stage time is going to be good or bad at the finish. It's a bit like a lottery.
"I can't do better. For me I can't do better. I'm at maximum, maximum, maximum. But it's still not good
"I tried to push but it's not so good
"In this stage I pushed more and the time appears to be worse than I was expecting. It's difficult to work out the driving style that's required
"The worst stage in my life – unbelievable. I can't push and was really slow. By kilometre three, I just wanted to get to the end of the stage
"I try a different style of driving and we have a little bit of understeer in the corners. The feeling is not bad but the times aren't what we expect."
"In some places I didn't feel very comfy in the car and I didn't have the confidence. Some places were a little bit damp as well."
What about Breen and Latvala then? Showdown between Yaris and C3.

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[AnttiL]

He is talking about tarmac. Different surfaces.

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Haha, didn't realize my comment applies to three rallies :D

But how do Sordo's problems relate to Latvala overtaking Breen?

[dimviii]

What about Breen and Latvala then? Showdown between Yaris and C3.

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you really believe that Latvalas/Yaris speed measure is Breen at last stage when is the only shitroen crew?
No its not Breen,not Lefebvre,its Meeke,Neuville Ogier,and after 4 stages he was 1 minute slower.

[denkimi]

I remember hearing back in the days, that the c4 was faster than the focus, but much more difficult to drive. That it required the super smooth loeb style to make it go fast without crashing. The ford seemed easier and more forgiving.

Perhaps citroen has build a new car like this, but doesn't have the right driver for it.

[Sulland]

there's clear logic in this: Meeke didn't contest in Poland last year, but Breen and Lefebvre did, and set some decent times there. Meanwhile, it also makes sense to put Mikkelsen in one of the cars, because he won the event last year.

My own idea is that perhaps Citroen's budget is running out and they cannot afford anymore crashes? We must remember that in addition to Meeke's rolls, Lefebvre has had a crash of some sort in all his events of this year. Maybe that's why Mikkelsen was so cautious, he was told to make sure the car finishes? or he was promised a new drive if he finishes?

Mikkelsen is used to teamorders that says; drive to finish, get km to learn car and rallies from hos first years at VW motorsport 2.
Driving @ 90-95% is an art as well as getting up to 100 when needed or allowed.

[RAS007]

While I feel bad for Meeke, it seems to me that Citroen are the architects of their own demise. A little like Mitsubishi in the mid to late 90s, when you have an entire team and car built around one driver,and his driving style, it's bound to fall apart when that driver leaves. Look at the struggles Delecour and A. McRae had with the Lancer after Makinen left Mitsubishi. It's almost always ominous when you hear that a particular car needs a particular driving style. Citroen will take a while to recover from the Loeb era.

[AnttiL]

While I feel bad for Meeke, it seems to me that Citroen are the architects of their own demise. A little like Mitsubishi in the mid to late 90s, when you have an entire team and car built around one driver,and his driving style, it's bound to fall apart when that driver leaves. Look at the struggles Delecour and A. McRae had with the Lancer after Makinen left Mitsubishi.

Partially true. The Lancer WRC wasn't that good for Mäkinen either, but Freddy Loix said he was totally lost in the Lancer Evo with Mäkinen's settings. Dunno how Burns managed it though.

I remember that even in the Group A days, Timo Salonen said he couldn't drive the Galant in 1991 1000 Lakes Rally with the type of front diff Kenneth Eriksson had set up. Salonen had driven a lot of RWD cars and Eriksson had driven a lot of FWD cars so they had a very different driving style

[EstWRC]

very good blog post about this situation IMO http://www.worldrallyblog.com/2017/06/13/wrc-news/theres-right-way-things/

like i also said some pages back, it wont do any better for Meeke.

[Eli]

very good blog post about this situation IMO http://www.worldrallyblog.com/2017/06/13/wrc-news/theres-right-way-things/

like i also said some pages back, it wont do any better for Meeke.

Yeo, and look how it turned out for Malcolm.

very good blog post about this situation IMO http://www.worldrallyblog.com/2017/06/13/wrc-news/theres-right-way-things/

like i also said some pages back, it wont do any better for Meeke.


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[Rallyper]

What´s the problem adapting a car after different driving styles? Don´t understand the discussion regarding cars that are undriveable for all drivers except one.

[mknight]

very good blog post about this situation IMO http://www.worldrallyblog.com/2017/06/13/wrc-news/theres-right-way-things/

like i also said some pages back, it wont do any better for Meeke.

I don't agree with that blog post.
Duval was driving at ok speed after he got back, stable and with 3-4 place speed. It seemed that the decision was already made.
Meeke has been crashing for quite long and was in similar situation in 2014 when he wasn't dropped.

Note that quite often Wilson's successes actually come from dropping drivers for a season. I.e. Evans last year, Tanak in 2013 etc. NOT from keeping them crashing in same car.
The examples given for not pulling mid-season are also often not valid. Say Østberg last year had extremely good first half of the season, so why would you drop him in the middle of it? Tanak in 2012 started crashing in the second half. etc.

[AL14]

Meeke is going to 40, he drives since Colin McRae era. You can do all you want, make him miss events, or give support and trust, he will not change his driving style.
I don't think that Matton is doing this to help Meeke, I think he is thinking of future and wants to give more space possible to Mikkelsen, especially in the development of the car.

The point is that in my opinion he made a mistake at the beginning of the season saying "if Mikkelsen and Latvala call me I will answer only because I am polite". He didn't see this coming and maybe he should...

[TWRC]

very good blog post about this situation IMO http://www.worldrallyblog.com/2017/06/13/wrc-news/theres-right-way-things/

like i also said some pages back, it wont do any better for Meeke.
Then what should Matton do? Let him keep crashing brand new cars on every event like he did in Sardinia, and hope for a change somewhere down the road? And yes, as much as I like Meeke, if he's not mentally strong enough to get back from this, then questionmarks can rightfully be raised over his future.

[mknight]

Someone can read this:
http://www.autosport.com/premium/feature/7569/scapegoating-meeke-wont-help-citroen-crisis

[seb_sh]

The point is that in my opinion he made a mistake at the beginning of the season saying "if Mikkelsen and Latvala call me I will answer only because I am polite". He didn't see this coming and maybe he should...

Exactly, before VW pulled out you could argue Citroen couldn't get a much better lineup with what drivers were available, however the moment 3 of the top 5 (if not THE top 3) drivers in the WRC became available it was quite silly to not get at least one of them, especially as they had tested the '17 Polo for most of 2016... As Capito said in that podcast, this "learning year" business is silly and you have to adapt to the circumstances. It may not have been as easy, because there were probably contracts in place and so on, but that's where a manager has to step in and create the best situation possible for his team.

[J_n_z]

I think Matton should go, not Kris. There is many people in this world, that can do his job, but I cant find 10 of them, who can drive a car like Kris... Kris needs a decent "racing supervisor" (even ValeRossi has Cadalora) to eliminate stupidities, not carrier destructive moves to destroy concentration...

[seb_sh]

Someone can read this:
http://www.autosport.com/premium/feature/7569/scapegoating-meeke-wont-help-citroen-crisis

in short:
- reviews Meeke's season, says he had too many crashes
- draws a parallel to Duval getting suspended, suggesting it's the wrong idea
- criticizes car, relates it to budget cuts in the mixed PSA motorsport department
- says being replaced by Mikkelsen might actually be good for Meeke if Mikkelsen doesn't perform
- says Citroen has a strange testing programme regarding location choice
- questions if it was right to have just Meeke develop the C3 (all or nothing driver produced a car that is always on a knife edge)
- says Mattons should have gotten Mikkelsen from the start

Basically, nothing that hasn't been discussed in this forum already.

[mknight]

Didn't know about any budget cuts. Also the testing locations is kind of new, I only wondered how clever it was to let Mikkelsen test in France.

[seb_sh]

Didn't know about any budget cuts. Also the testing locations is kind of new, I only wondered how clever it was to let Mikkelsen test in France.

He might have more info about budget cuts but it has been suggested here that Al Qassimi is footing a big part of the bill. Also he doesn't really say any actual facts or new info in the article. Could be true, could be his opinion. He hints that off the record Citroen drivers complain more that the car is on a knife edge, but again we knew that already...

[RS]

So Meeke crashed again.. if Mikelssen had actually been good this weekend then Meeke should have been worried, but it seems Citroen's problems extend way beyond just Meeke crashing too much.

[mknight]

So Meeke crashed again.. if Mikelssen had actually been good this weekend then Meeke should have been worried, but it seems Citroen's problems extend way beyond just Meeke crashing too much.

He just got kicked from the lineup for a rally and he shouldn't be worried?

What's more Mikkelsen's and Breen's setup issues have shown that the car Meeke has been developing whole last year has huge issues.

[Sladden]

Not totally surprising news - I still find it disappointing. Yes, he's made mistakes - but he's not helped by the car having major issues. Finishing 5,6,7th place is of no use to Citroen as they'll learn nothing for the future. He's the only Citroen driver to show rally winning pace. What will Lefebvre offer? Lower Top 10 pace - if he doesn't bin it. Mikkelsen is still getting to know the car, but you would expect improvement - but rally challenging pace?? Hmm....wait and see...

However, if Kris comes back in Finland refreshed and performs well; then it was the right decision....

Yeah it feels like Meeke is a scapegoat. He was on course for his second and consecutive win in Corsica just a few months ago.

[Rally Power]

Yeah it feels like Meeke is a scapegoat.

To elude Meeke driving issues (like Brit rally journos do) won't help Meeke at all. After his Argentina collapse, Evans, Clark and the other guys should have made a public wake-up call, asking Meeke for a different approach, instead of just keep pointing at the car troubles (with crappy stories like the ‘bring Sainz to help’ one).

Btw, Matton was more than loyal to Meeke; he gave him the leader driver role, despite Meeke's irregular past, and delayed as much as he could a change on the line up. Italy was the reality check moment. Let's just hope Meeke can learn from it.

[Norm75]

Good post Rally power. I've said it before and I will say it again, Matton did not help the situation from the very start of the year by saying the goal was rally wins, not championships.
In Meeke, that have a driver who's mindset seems to be very much win it or bin it. While someone said in response to my original post stating the above, that Matton probably did not mean what he said, or at least not at the beginning of the year, it just gives the public the impression that Kris has his blessing to go flat out all the time.

I also said near the start of the season that the c3 is not quite there yet. Kris is the only driver that has shown rally winning, and consistent stage winning pace in it. He has been foolish, he has also been unlucky.
Breen has shown a good consistent pace but that is top five pace, not rally leading pace. Lefebvre has shown fuck all. Mikkelsen could only manage 8th in Italy. Yes, he hasn't driven the car much at all, but he has had plenty of seat time in a 17' spec car, and was soundly beaten by Lappi. He also said that the c3 was quite difficult to drive. It didn't seem to take much time for him to get the best out of the skoda, so something isn't right with the car, in my opinion.

Yes, I am a fan of Meekes, but you are quite right when you say he needs to change his approach.

[Sladden]

To elude Meeke driving issues (like Brit rally journos do) won't help Meeke at all. After his Argentina collapse, Evans, Clark and the other guys should have made a public wake-up call, asking Meeke for a different approach, instead of just keep pointing at the car troubles (with crappy stories like the ‘bring Sainz to help’ one).

Btw, Matton was more than loyal to Meeke; he gave him the leader driver role, despite Meeke's irregular past, and delayed as much as he could a change on the line up. Italy was the reality check moment. Let's just hope Meeke can learn from it.

Are you suggesting internet drama and armchair experts will hurt him?

[Rally Power]

Are you suggesting internet drama and armchair experts will hurt him?

Nope. I’m referring to the rally journos (from Autosport, WRC radio, etc) that didn’t dare to say the obvious: with the ‘all or nothing’ driving approach, Meeke’s WRC future was becoming at risk. Sadly, it is now.

[mknight]

Good post Rally power. I've said it before and I will say it again, Matton did not help the situation from the very start of the year by saying the goal was rally wins, not championships.

Matton said this first after Corsica afaik.

[er88]

Matton said this first after Corsica afaik.
Wrong

[mknight]

Wrong


Found the article, after corsica
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129181/?_ga=2.240651459.1904026483.1497369698-1577377818.1478205931

""At the start of the year, there was a strategy and a bit of plan about how to go about things, but that's gone now.

"It's just about winning rallies."

So timing is right, but it's Meeke who says it himself.

But Matton also said goal is rally wins before start of the season:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127549/?_ga=2.39337571.1904026483.1497369698-1577377818.1478205931

[Norm75]

Well, I read at start of season from somewhere Matton's aim for this year was to win rallies, and aim for championships in 2018. He then reiterated this as you say after Corsica. Now, whether he actually meant it at the start of the season is different, having taken a year out to focus on this years car I find it hard to believe they did not have one eye on fighting for a championship.
After Corsica I believe the mentality fell in line more with Matton's words. Therefore, a driver who has the ability to win pretty much any rally will try to do just that, and as we see this can end in either tears or glory.

[KKS]

Colin Clark point of view
https://www.facebook.com/voiceofrally/posts/773277432834922

And my prediction for Poland:
or 1. Mikkelsen drive safe to bring car to the finish and will be beaten by Breen by a 5 min or so
or 2. He try to go fast and crash.

All 2 ways keep good news for Meeke :)

[mknight]

Colin Clark point of view
https://www.facebook.com/voiceofrally/posts/773277432834922

And my prediction for Poland:
or 1. Mikkelsen drive safe to bring car to the finish and will be beaten by Breen by a 5 min or so
or 2. He try to go fast and crash.

All 2 ways keep good news for Meeke :)

Noted, I think it will be precisely between the two options.

He will be fast on some stages, but generally not that fast and end up just behind Breen.

[er88]

Tell you what, if Andreas isn't setting at least very competitive top 4/5 times in Poland and getting progressively faster as the rally goes on, Citroen are fucked. Matton too, seeing as I bet this was his last roll of the dice before his own head is on the chopping block. He's put faith in a driver who would rather be in anyone of the other three teams, and possibly alienated Meeke who up till now is the only driver close to taming that car and producing rally winning speed in it. Interesting times, and don't be surprised if the Arab money winds up at Msport next year, leaving an even bigger hole in the budget. Not difficult to see which team would give a better return on big investment right now


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[Sulland]

Is there no chance of Citroen getting Loeb in for a couple of tests?
Did Matton cut his relationship to Citreon Sport for good?

[BigWorm]

Is there no chance of Citroen getting Loeb in for a couple of tests?
Did Matton cut his relationship to Citreon Sport for good?

Not sure if he's allowed to do that, Loeb is not under contract with Citroën anymore, he has signed with Peugeot.

[Tarmop]

Well, same PSA group...did it before (Le Mans, Pikes Peak)+ Peugeot Sport and Citroen developed the old r5`s and are developing the new one together? Also Peugeot sport doesn`t have and probably isn`t planning to have a WRC car.

[stefanvv]

Also Peugeot sport doesn`t have and probably isn`t planning to have a WRC car.

Le Mans for them since 2020.

[Rally Power]

Is there no chance of Citroen getting Loeb in for a couple of tests?
Did Matton cut his relationship to Citreon Sport for good?

Loeb Racing runs Citroen ex-official cars at WTCC. The alleged break between Loeb and Citroen is a myth; Matton had only 2 cars for the last WTCC season and he chosse the best two drivers: Lopez and Muller. Citroen din't had any other program suitable for Loeb (he quitted WRC) and once Peugeot is under the same roof they gave Loeb Dakar and WRX seats. If Citroen ask him to test the C3 he’ll, most likely, do it.

[racerx1979]

Tell you what, if Andreas isn't setting at least very competitive top 4/5 times in Poland and getting progressively faster as the rally goes on, Citroen are fucked. Matton too, seeing as I bet this was his last roll of the dice before his own head is on the chopping block. He's put faith in a driver who would rather be in anyone of the other three teams, and possibly alienated Meeke who up till now is the only driver close to taming that car and producing rally winning speed in it. Interesting times, and don't be surprised if the Arab money winds up at Msport next year, leaving an even bigger hole in the budget. Not difficult to see which team would give a better return on big investment right now

I agree with er88.

If you listened to the Autosport podcast which aired before Portugal you heard the VW head, Jost Capito and pretty much everyone else talking about Andreas as a god. They went on and on about how he would come in and be on the podium just like he did with the WRC 2 Skoda. When Lappi's name came up everyone laughed and said I would pick Andreas over Lappi any day. That may be an accurate statement, but the Andreas had issues galore out in Sardegna. If he has another lackluster performance in Poland I think it's safe to assume the Citroen is need of a serious rehab.

For Poland I think Andreas stands no chance at a podium. I don't even think he will fair well against Lappi who went from a WRC 2 car straight to a 17 car. I'm also not sure how many test miles Lappi has had in the Yaris, but we all know test miles and competition miles are a worlds apart (just look at Citroen and Meeke). My predictions are Nueville, Tanak, Latvala, Lappi and Ogier in the top 5.

[mknight]

Lappi hype is real. I mean sure he has made very good progress and some good stage times. But for a reality check, without the gearbox issues he would still be 1 min behind Latvala in Sardinia, with massive road-position advantage on friday. Also Lappi spend 7months testing Yaris before driving a rally, "straight" from WRC2 car is a bit of an overstatement.

Clearly Citroen is massive unknown given their issues, but don't overhype Lappi vs Paddon and Sordo too early. I like him a lot but better steady progress than crash and burn (aka. Paddon after Argentina last year).

[Mirek]

I am looking forward to see Lappi on asphalt. So far he has managed to finish only small percentage of asphalt events through his whole career.

[lnvs]

Also Lappi spend 7months testing Yaris before driving a rally, "straight" from WRC2 car is a bit of an overstatement..Very much OT, but Lappi tested Yaris first time 4 months before Portugal. Sardegna was first rally where he was able to use own pretest made setup.

[racerx1979]

I am looking forward to see Lappi on asphalt. So far he has managed to finish only small percentage of asphalt events through his whole career.

Will be interesting to see Lappis tarmac pace vs Paddon

[pantealex]

Very much OT, but Lappi tested Yaris first time 4 months before Portugal. Sardegna was first rally where he was able to use own pretest made setup.

and totally tested less than 10 times.

I also agree that Hype is too much now and expect Top6 results from Lappi, not podiums.

[AnttiL]

Very much OT, but Lappi tested Yaris first time 4 months before Portugal. Sardegna was first rally where he was able to use own pretest made setup.

His pre-Portugal test was on wet conditions and the rally was dry, so he went in with Hänninen's setup. He found his own setup on the last day, hence the good power stage time (and better results in Sardinia)

But I agree with you, let's not hype or expect too much, let him find his pace and surprise us positively.

[Hartusvuori]

and totally tested less than 10 times.

I also agree that Hype is too much now and expect Top6 results from Lappi, not podiums.

Lappi did one day at the end of team's Rally Sweden tests, but because of issues with the car on the day he got to drive only for 3 hours or so. This was his first proper touch with the car.
Lappi did one day at Corsican test.
Lappi did one day before Portugal.
Lappi did one day before Sardegna (in Finland).
Lappi did one day before Poland.

That is not much. There could be an odd day more here and there, but I think those 5 days are pretty much all he have tested. He has not done any development testing as far as I know. That was mainly Hänninen's job who in a recent interview said he did something like 60 days in Yaris last year.

Toyota has been very quiet in testing front in Finland apart from Rally Sweden tests. I think they will use their homefield advantage before Rally Finland a lot more.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I am looking forward to see Lappi on asphalt. So far he has managed to finish only small percentage of asphalt events through his whole career.

I remember him winning in Ireland in the ERC and his speed on those amazing roads was pretty special.

[Mirek]

In the same year he crashed in Ypres, on Barum and on Corsica. Not saying he can't go fast. Yes, he can, but so far only from time to time he managed to keep the speed till the end without crashing.

[racerx1979]

Sardegna was a slow rally while Poland is a fast paced event. I don't expect podiums for the guy, but a top 5 is not too unlikely provided he has a good rally. I'm also not sure Toyota is as fast as the other cars.

Sordo has also been showing good speed lately minus car issues. It's a great year with so many different possibilities.

[Luijbregts]

What suddenly happened to this Citroen WRT forum? Very well updated with Toyota now!

[Mirek]

In its current state Citroën isn't worth discussing...

[Rally Power]

In the same year he crashed in Ypres, on Barum and on Corsica. Not saying he can't go fast. Yes, he can, but so far only from time to time he managed to keep the speed till the end without crashing.

Lappi changed during ’16, being much more consistent than before (without losing the speed). He was 2nd to Evans on MC tricky stages (in a Even entry) and beat Skoda mates in Germany. For sure he’ll be always faster on gravel but his tarmac pace is also great, especially for a Finn.

[stefanvv]

Off topic.... Off topic.... Off topic.

[EstWRC]

About the situation https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/meeke-backed-to-bounce-back-by-wrc-paddock/

[Jinu13]

About the situation https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/meeke-backed-to-bounce-back-by-wrc-paddock/

Basically what everyone has been saying on here plus an Alonso analogy. (Come on the Citroën car's not THAT bad!)

[mknight]

About the situation https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/meeke-backed-to-bounce-back-by-wrc-paddock/

- I find it extremely funny to have David Lapworth commenting. I mean who else knows better about going from top team to one of the slowest cars on the grid in a short timespan.

- The Finnish guy is funny, saying they should keep Meeke cause he can charge for win in Poland ( a rally where he has never done well and has not driven last year, all this after crashing 4 times in a row). And furthermore saying that with Mikkelsen they can't hope for better than 5th. He won there last year, if they can't hope for better than 5th (which indeed is a realistic goal) then clearly something is not good with the car/setup.

- 100% agree with the german guy

[Rally Power]

- I find it extremely funny to have David Lapworth commenting. I mean who else knows better about going from top team to one of the slowest cars on the grid in a short timespan.
- The Finnish guy is funny, saying they should keep Meeke cause he can charge for win in Poland ( a rally where he has never done well and has not driven last year, all this after crashing 4 times in a row). (...)

The whole piece is a joke. Using the comments from two former WRC players and two free-lancer journos to say there's a paddock backing to Meeke seems a desperate attempt to keep people focused (and clicking) on a solved matter. Btw, didn't Lapworth drop Meeke during Prodrive’s second season with the Mini?

[Fitz]

The whole piece is a joke. Using the comments from two former WRC players and two free-lancer journos to say there's a paddock backing to Meeke seems a desperate attempt to keep people focused (and clicking) on a solved matter. Btw, didn't Lapworth drop Meeke during Prodrive’s second season with the Mini?

This was because there was no money coming from BMW and BMW said that Prodrive were meant to find money to make up the shortfall.

This resulted in the tweet from Meeke about
'Ever had your girlfriend leave you & go to work as a prostitute'.

[greencroft]

Personally I would have thought Meeke not having contested Poland last year was a good reason for him to be doing it this year. If Citroen want to be doing well in the 2018 championship, then surely they would want their main driver as familiar as possible with each event in the calendar? Or does this tell us that they have little confidence in Citroen being there in 2018?

[AnttiL]

Or little confidence in Poland being there in 2018?

[N.O.T]

Personally I would have thought Meeke not having contested Poland last year was a good reason for him to be doing it this year. If Citroen want to be doing well in the 2018 championship, then surely they would want their main driver as familiar as possible with each event in the calendar? Or does this tell us that they have little confidence in Citroen being there in 2018?

What makes you think meeke is going to be their main driver in 2018 ?

[wrc2017]

What makes you think meeke is going to be their main driver in 2018 ?

Maybe its mknight or rally power, as they seem to have answers for everything.. the actual driving should come easy to both.

[greencroft]

What makes you think meeke is going to be their main driver in 2018 ?

Only because it seems he has a contract for 2018.

Not seen it myself but it was referred to as a 3 year deal at the time it was signed but as we know, contracts can have all sorts of options in them and sometimes can just be broken.

[er88]

Mikkelson should be fighting for the win considering his superb road position, his undoubted talent and now some good testing days under his belt....

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[Watson]

Mikkelson should be fighting for the win considering his superb road position, his undoubted talent and now some good testing days under his belt....

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I really don't think so. I think there is a big learning curve with all the drivers since the beginning of the season with the new cars and we can't see ut because it was more or less simultanious for most of them.

Testing is good but the big things you learn during the actual events.

[N.O.T]

Mikkelson should be fighting for the win considering his superb road position, his undoubted talent and now some good testing days under his belt....

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Mikkelson ?? are you special kid ?

[er88]

Mikkelson ?? are you special kid ?
Well son, he's been made out to be some sort of God while he's been out of a drive and his stock has risen and risen. Let's see if he has got what it takes in a rally he won last year.
Or maybe he'll just manage to step up to Breen's pace in this rally, after setting times Lefebvre wouldn't have even been happy with in Sardinia ;)

[er88]

I really don't think so. I think there is a big learning curve with all the drivers since the beginning of the season with the new cars and we can't see ut because it was more or less simultanious for most of them.

Testing is good but the big things you learn during the actual events.
Lappi has ruined that theory.

[Watson]

Lappi has ruined that theory.

Yeah to a degree. He really has been testing that car forever now.

[stefanvv]

Well son, he's been made out to be some sort of God while he's been out of a drive and his stock has risen and risen. Let's see if he has got what it takes in a rally he won last year.
Or maybe he'll just manage to step up to Breen's pace in this rally, after setting times Lefebvre wouldn't have even been happy with in Sardinia ;)

Who are You talking about. Who is Mikkelson?

[er88]

Yeah to a degree. He really has been testing that car forever now.
He really hasn't been

[er88]

Who are You talking about. Who is Mikkelson?
Sorry, Mikkelsen ;)

[Luijbregts]

Hehe. I think he means the Swedish half brother of Andreas Mikkelsen :eek:

[Luijbregts]

Sorry, Mikkelsen ;) ;)

[stefanvv]

Sorry, Mikkelsen ;)

I almost thought Citroen are so desperate they hired driver we never heard of before.

[Watson]

He really hasn't been

Yes, he's been involved since pre-season.

[er88]

Yes, he's been involved since pre-season.
Check the previous page, he hasn't tested a lot. It was Suninen who did the pre season testing.

[AnttiL]

Check the previous page, he hasn't tested a lot. It was Suninen who did the pre season testing.

Hänninen has been Toyota's main test guy. Lappi has tested like 8 times.

[Rallyper]

And I think Lappis learning curve increased most in Portugal and Sardinia events.

[Watson]

Hänninen has been Toyota's main test guy. Lappi has tested like 8 times.

Which is a damn side more than Mikkelsen. I have a feeling the C3 is not competitive at all unless you find the perfect setup (Meeke in Mexico, Breen every once in a while) or you have balls of steel (Meeke all the time). But the latter method will bite back.

[itix]

Edit: This was a reply to Rally power who said that the break between Loeb and Citroen was a myth. Can't refind the post though and it looks like I forgot to qoute.


I'm not convinced. He drove Peugeots at various rallies since and haven't driven a Ctiroen. The one at rallylegend will be his first for a long while.
That said, it would be great if he could come in and save the miserable situation Citroen has put themselves in.

The way things are going, I fear I will see Ogier in the team next season :(

[wrc2017]

Maybe Hyundai should drop him for a rally.... http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130336/neuville-crashes-out-of-lead-of-ypres-rally

[SubaruNorway]

Maybe Hyundai should drop him for a rally.... http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130336/neuville-crashes-out-of-lead-of-ypres-rally

It's just what happens when you run without gravel crew, half the top field went off.

[Eli]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2017/06/23/citroen-aus-c3-wrc-wird-c3-wrcs/ a few changes to the C3 WRC sorry C3 WRCS.

[Watson]

That 'name change' is really ridiculous. It has the air of an attempt of trying to polish a turd.

[wrc2017]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/ar...-wird-c3-wrcs/

For the season, Citroën used so-called jokers, which allow further developments at the car. The French were able to homologate from the FIA ​​two changes to the rear differential to modify the torque distribution between the axles. To document the new beginning also externally, the C3 WRC has now been officially renamed C3 WRCS.

So Matton says..

"We have noticed that some of the risks we have experienced during the development of the C3 have not paid off," said Teamchef Yves Matton. "Our car is undoubtedly fast, but it turned out that the window in which it works optimally is very narrow. In addition, we have made some important changes in our organization, our methods and our principles. "

If you strip anyway the political correctness... we fucked up.

[Andre Oliveira]

"THE CHALLENGES: UPGRADES FOR THE C3 WRCS

After the end of Rally Italia Sardegna, the team’s engineers and crews immediately headed for Poland, where they spent four days testing in the Mikolajki region. Andreas Mikkelsen/Anders Jæger, Craig Breen/Scott Martin and Stéphane Lefebvre/Gabin Moreau took turns behind the wheel as they adapted the set-up of the Citroën C3 WRC to the specific features of the Polish roads. Following this session, Citroën Racing submitted two upgrades to the FIA: homologation of a new rear differential rail and a mechanical ‘joker’ in order to modify the torque split between the axles. After a series of results that have fallen short of its targets, Citroën Racing has renewed its determination to get back to challenging for podiums.

Having won once and finished as runner-up twice in the last three years, Andreas Mikkelsen has good reason to feel confident of a strong result at Rally Poland. Due to a delay in sourcing the new components, his C3 WRC will be the only one to have the newly-homologated ‘joker’. If roads are dry, the Norwegian is also likely to benefit from a good road position on day one, giving him a chance to be well placed for the following legs."

[AnttiL]

It's nice to post a source for a quote http://www.rallyreportwrc.com/2017/06/24/a-fresh-start-for-the-citroen-c3-wrcs/

[mknight]

I am bit confused. After the test they changed some parts but they will first come in the rally? Meaning Mikkelsen couldn't actually test/find setup with them?

[AnttiL]

I am bit confused. After the test they changed some parts but they will first come in the rally? Meaning Mikkelsen couldn't actually test/find setup with them?

Sounds like that. Maybe he couldn't set up the car to his style so they had to make a new version to his specs?

[Andre Oliveira]

It's nice to post a source for a quote http://www.rallyreportwrc.com/2017/06/24/a-fresh-start-for-the-citroen-c3-wrcs/

Yes, that... from the official Citroën media press

[macebig]

I am bit confused. After the test they changed some parts but they will first come in the rally? Meaning Mikkelsen couldn't actually test/find setup with them?

I think they probably got one new diff in the test car and all drivers agreed that it was an improvement. So, Citroen decided to homologate it but couldn't manufacture 3 sets of it plus spares in time. No1 driver gets priority.

[AnttiL]

Could Mikkelsen actually be fast having made changes to the car? But will he pull off a Meeke, and crash from lead? Or will he continue to "learn the car"? Or will the new parts fail him? Lots of open questions.

[doubled1978]

Seems even more ridiculous to drop Meeke now. Admit they got the car wrong, and bin the one guy who dragged a win out of it. Lefebvre is slow and crashes...

[Zeakiwi]

Wonder if Mikkelsen told Citroen what was in the diff of the 2017 VW, and Citroen went back to workshop to make their own version?

[wrc2017]

If you read some of my earlier posts i believe the diff torque split (among other things) was requested by Meeke some time ago, but they refused to even test it.

[TWRC]

Seems even more ridiculous to drop Meeke now. Admit they got the car wrong, and bin the one guy who dragged a win out of it. Lefebvre is slow and crashes...
And Meeke is fast and crashed as well. At the end of the day, they are the same, not bringing in any manufacturer points and causing heavy repair bills for the team.

[itix]

Seems even more ridiculous to drop Meeke now. Admit they got the car wrong, and bin the one guy who dragged a win out of it. Lefebvre is slow and crashes...
Let's see... Who was the development driver of said car again? Oh yeah... Meeke.
He is appearing more and more useless.

[wrc2017]

But Meeke's bravery (whether it be right or wrong) and pace convinced Citroen they had a quick car capable of winning rallys.. when actually they dont.


And Meeke is fast and crashed as well. At the end of the day, they are the same, not bringing in any manufacturer points and causing heavy repair bills for the team.

[wrc2017]

He test drove the car when it was presented infront of him. Major concepts of the car are wrong. He was not, nor did Citroen have, a development driver.

[itix]

But Meeke's bravery (whether it be right or wrong) and pace convinced Citroen they had a quick car capable of winning rallys.. when actually they dont.
Pretty much everyone everywhere claimed the Citroen was the fastest before this season.

Personally after having evaluated the season so far, I believe Citroen to be on approximately the same level as Toyota and Ford (i.e. Behind Hyundai).

If we remember last seasons, Citroen was capable to win with Meeke only when they had a road order advantage over the Ogier/VW combo. Now they outpace the Ogier/Ford combo also from a similar or worse road position with Meeke and similar pace with Breen on individual stages.

Citroen has managemental, and reliability issues (and massive driver issues with Meeke), but I don't believe the car to be fundamentally flawed.

Sensitive to setup maybe... But not incapable.

[wrc2017]

It capable on smooth tarmac
Maybe we will see after Poland

[doubled1978]

Let's see... Who was the development driver of said car again? Oh yeah... Meeke.
He is appearing more and more useless.
Perhaps, but Mattons comments tend to suggest they know the fault lay with them. And if as others have said they wouldn't let him try the different torque split etc, then how can he be responsible for the development direction of it?
When all is said and done, only the team really know, but from watching all the onboard action on WRC+ its clear the suspension is terrible when compared with the others, and that the rear is always a big fight to keep stable. If the car was confidence inspiring, Im sure Mikkelsen would have been quicker than he was in Italy, he was miles off. Im not saying Meeke is blameless, but to say he is useless is frankly just bollocks.

[dimviii]

guys we don't know where exactly is the problem.Wait for few rallies more,and it will be more clear now with Mikkelsen,and at next rallies with both Mikkelsen and Meeke.

[Rally Power]

If you read some of my earlier posts i believe the diff torque split (among other things) was requested by Meeke some time ago, but they refused to even test it.

Get real! When and where did Meeke said something like that?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's shameful that they have suddenly accepted what Mikkelsen suggests when everyone must've known the issue but wouldnt change it til he came into the team.

Meeke must be fuming - he gets dropped and then his replacement gets the new spec WRCS.

[wrc2017]

Rally Sweden, regroup interview with a Belgian journo.
Get real! When and where did Meeke said something like that?

[dimviii]

Rally Sweden, regroup interview with a Belgian journo.

can we find any link?

[Rally Power]

Rally Sweden, regroup interview with a Belgian journo.

We all know Meeke complained about the C3 handling (not only in Sweden) but I very much doubt he revealed team private matters in public, like the refusal of changing set up you’ve mentioned. Besides, who can seriously believe that the main test driver, that actively helped to develop the car for more than 6 months, was not heard by the tech staff? Probably only brit fans and journos in a state of denial.

[stefanvv]

Besides, who can seriously believe that the main test driver, that actively helped to develop the car for more than 6 months, was not heard by the tech staff? Probably only brit fans and journos in a state of denial.May be they don't trust their leading driver?!?

[Rally Power]

May be they don't trust their leading driver?!?

Don't buy it; if that was the case they would called Mikkelsen in November, when he became available. Honestly I believe Matton really trust and like Meeke, but he simply couldn't avoid putting a break on current Meeke crash record. Otherwise it'd be irresponsible, not only for Meeke sake but also for the team urgent improvement need.

Hopefully Meeke will come back stronger in Finland and he’ll fell more confident with the C3 upgrades. Fingers crossed.

[stefanvv]

Don't buy it; if that was the case they would called Mikkelsen in November, when he became available. Honestly I believe Matton really trust and like Meeke, but he simply couldn't avoid putting a break on current Meeke crash record. Otherwise it'd be irresponsible, not only for Meeke sake but also for the team urgent improvement need. I don't, know the situation is very strange. Obviously they wanted Ogier, but perhaps were too proud to negotiate with him, instead there was just a media hint "if He calls me, we'll negotiate", but I guess it didn't happened. So they probably lived up with "the Loeb settings" when he developed the C4, and that's how it is, his driving style is with no compromise with other's driver's one.

[wrc2017]

Ive no link, but i did hear 3rd hand. Its been mention on this forum before. Its no secret

WRC 2017 Mechanical Issues and Failures

It appears citroen have transmission issues in loose surfaces.. with problem with tyre wear. Something about the torque split they have homolgated? Maybe someone with more knowledge understands this. Meeke led and Breen close on Day1.. Day2 they both dropped over 1min to Ogier. It doesnt look good for PSA group for Sardinia if thats the case.



can we find any link?