Citroen WRT

[Eli]

Indeed (finally) but they will need to collaborate between the current drivers and Master Loeb to get the best out of that C3 WRC.

[RAS007]

http://media.groupe-psa.com/en/s%C3%A9bastien-loeb-showcases-his-unique-talent-all-groupe-psa-brands?linkId=40208150

They're bringing Loeb in for a test.

A desperate move, from a desperate team. All the flowery language and buzzwords ("dense and eclectic", " technical synergies") cannot hide it.

[Arwel Davies]

A desperate move, from a desperate team. All the flowery language and buzzwords ("dense and eclectic", " technical synergies") cannot hide it.

My thoughts exactly, as much of a legend he is, it does appear to be a bit of a clutching at straws move from Citroen. How long before we see him put back into a car on an event, Germany?

[rhm]

The car seemed to go quite well on asphalt, would it not be more useful to do a gravel test?

[Simmi]

It's a bit strange they've felt the need to create this 'PSA Motorsport' concept to rationalise it. I know Loeb had no Citroen deal at all after they unceremoniously dumped him as they began to wind down their WTCC programme. Reports were he was pretty pissed at Citroen at the time.

Anyway my point is it seems a lot for just a WRC test. Have to wonder whether they will be an outing or two, especially as Citroen have publicly said this year is a write off ahead of 2018. Would be amazing but I doubt it.

[seb_sh]

the PSA Motorsport thing is nothing new, they announced this a couple of years ago. The point was to have a more cost efficient structure and run all motorsport programs from the same structure and facilities.

[itix]

About bloody time Loeb had a go at the dismal car. Hopefully he can get some competitive entries too.

We know he can develop a car at least! We'll see what he can do :)
Best news in a while!

[tomhlord]

The car seemed to go quite well on asphalt, would it not be more useful to do a gravel test?

My thoughts exactly.

[wrc2017]

The C3 WRC touring car is great on tarmac.. so why is Loeb doing a tarmac test.

[Eli]

https://www.worldrallyblog.com/2017/07/26/wrc-news/just-test-now/
An interesting piece about Loeb's test.

[Eli]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130933/meeke-feels-he-lacks-support-at-citroen
As if his confidence wasn't in a bad shape beforehand...

[er88]

What kind of strategy is that from a team manager?

If he wants Meeke to do what Lefebrve and Mikkelsen did in Poland - toddle around and collect the minor pts he should say that. If he wants Meeke to push (perhaps beyond the limits of the car) he should give him the confidence to do that.

I hope Matton is just being guarded and has actually discussed some sort of plan with Meeke.

Think Meeke maybe also had a little dig at Andreas/ Lefebrve there too, but my making a point to say he's not there to just crawl around and collect the latter top 10 positions?

Anyway, he sounds pissed off going into Finland and that's the worst event on the calendar to go into with a muddled mind. Things are spiralling out of control at Citroen. Next two events are huge for Matton, Meeke and Andreas you feel, as Germany will give an indication of Meeke vs Mikkelsen and who can get nearer to limits of the car, while getting a good result.

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[RAS007]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130933/meeke-feels-he-lacks-support-at-citroen
As if his confidence wasn't in a bad shape beforehand...

Totally f ucked up. There's really no other way to describe this. Meeke is the sacrificial lamb; Matton is a f ucking coward who should be taking responsibility for this disaster.

[mknight]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130933/meeke-feels-he-lacks-support-at-citroen
As if his confidence wasn't in a bad shape beforehand...

Both Matton and Meeke come out really bad here:

Matton
First he says Meeke should bring info for development... then he says he should finish on podium. Seems like he basically gave up on any real instructions. While you can understand where it comes from (after Corsica he told Meeke he should go for wins => 2 crashes, then before Sardinia he said he should try to finish => crash), it's not exactly a good trait for a manager. Not knowing how to instruct your main driver and sending mixed signals.

Meek
Just some humility would be in place. After crashing in every single rally of the season except Corsica nothing needed to be changed and they show lack of confidence in him?
The comment about coming in top 10 is imo more directed at Mikkelsen in Sardinia. So lets turn that around, Citroen has no chance to get good WDC or WMC result this year, which result was better for Citroen in the longer term? Meeke wrecking that car after 2 stages, or Mikkelsen with feedback based on many stage kms that immediately got acted upon?

--------------
All in all they should have sat together and talked trough it properly, possibly get Meeke some mental trainer or w/e, instead it seems they just both kept for themselves and nothing really changed.

[AnttiL]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/july-2017/no-plans-wrc-loeb-/page/4725--12-12-.html

Matton says Loeb won't do a competitive rally

[seb_sh]

I think it's safe to say Loeb returning to competition is out of the question.

[Arwel Davies]

Just like Mikkelsens' drive was a one off?? I wouldn't be surprised at all if we see him competing on at least one rally by the end of the year.

[AnttiL]

Just like Mikkelsens' drive was a one off?? I wouldn't be surprised at all if we see him competing on at least one rally by the end of the year.
I wouldn't be surprised if Loeb would be back to do gravel testing, or maybe a local event, but I'm not expecting him to do an actual WRC rally

[macebig]

I find it very difficult for Loeb to return to Wrc now. He isn't that young anymore. At 43 years old nobody has been competitive on the top level the last 20 years (except Matador...). Maybe a local French event may happen. A Wrc round can be pretty much excluded.

[seb_sh]

He is still competing on local events with a 306 Maxi and DS3 WRC so it wouldn't be that big a thing if he did one such event in a C3. But to the WRC? I don't think so.

[AnttiL]

http://www.sportti.com/uutinen.asp?CAT=1-2&ID=344051

Meeke says in this Finnish interview that he would have wanted Loeb or someone other experienced driver to test the C3 before the season, like Sainz and Grönholm did on the VW. He also admits the car has been very unpredictable and the suspension has issues.

[dimviii]

any news thatwe don't know from our French speaking mates?

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_07_2017/post-365-0-11333300-1501110490.png
http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_07_2017/post-365-0-01058800-1501110334.png

[seb_sh]

my french is not so good but it seems to be Loeb is saying he's not excluding anything in the future but it depends on his programme. Neuville says Loeb didn't say no when he asked him to come back and thinks Loeb would have fun, Sordo says he asked him and Loeb said "for the moment it's just a test" and he laughed when he read "for the moment" and Ogier says he would be excited if Loeb returned.

probably someone better at french can understand more

sure put my foot in my mouth with my last two posts in this thread :o

[Rally Power]

Seb_sh already mention the best parts, just completing a bit more:

The main article ads only a few words from Loeb, saying he was willing to test a WRC car again and from all the motorsport series he tried, rally still is his favourite. When asked if he could run some WRC events next year Loeb doesn’t exclude it, but only after checking his Peugeot program. Then the article speculates about Peugeot possibility to leave rally raids after the next Dakar (in order to focus in a LM/WEC program) and how that could be the perfect chance for a Loeb return (occasionally, at least) to WRC...

The other piece mentions some words from Neuville(Loeb had previously said to him he wouldn’t say no to a bit of rally and to test the new cars; he also believes Loeb will be pleased about the new cars), Sordo (he’s amused cause he send Loeb a text asking if he would comeback and Loeb answered : “for now it’s only a test”) and Ogier (he finds Loeb can surely help Citroen to develop the car and when asked about a possible Loeb return, he responded it’d be a surprise but it’d be exciting for WRC). Nice fair play from them all!

[er88]

So Meeke saying in the press conference that the new parts that were finally added to the car following Mikkelsen's input, are things he's been pushing for for years. Doesn't look good when Matton has now admitted they took risks with this car that have backfired, and it also now seems that they went against Kris' wishes with some aspects of the engineering, development and testing. Kris was happy for an experienced driver like Loeb to help in testing but it's clear that that that wasn't possible for whatever reason. Screams of a team not having faith in what their lead driver wants, or a team that was so narrow minded that they didn't believe they could be wrong...

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[wrc2017]

Agreed.

You have to like Meeke. That press confrence was brilliant. He walked that line between being firm and critising the team very well. He tells it as it is... defiantley friction in the team though. In this mood Meeke can win the rally, i think he is fed up with his treatment by Citroen.. and without clear instruction he will just drive like he done last year.

[steve.mandzij]

Agreed.

You have to like Meeke. That press confrence was brilliant. He walked that line between being firm and critising the team very well. He tells it as it is... defiantley friction in the team though. In this mood Meeke can win the rally, i think he is fed up with his treatment by Citroen.. and without clear instruction he will just drive like he done last year.He'll either win or die trying.

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[wrc2017]

Yes thats why we like him. Rather that than a Matthew Wilson.
He'll either win or die trying.

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[mknight]

So Meeke saying in the press conference that the new parts that were finally added to the car following Mikkelsen's input, are things he's been pushing for for years. Doesn't look good when Matton has now admitted they took risks with this car that have backfired, and it also now seems that they went against Kris' wishes with some aspects of the engineering, development and testing. Kris was happy for an experienced driver like Loeb to help in testing but it's clear that that that wasn't possible for whatever reason. Screams of a team not having faith in what their lead driver wants, or a team that was so narrow minded that they didn't believe they could be wrong...

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It's also the risk of developing the car with only 1 experienced driver who only drove Mini and DS3 (of the later cars). Kind of easier for engineers to claim they know better than him and completely ignore input from Breen and Lefevbre cause they have even less experience.

This risk is again Mattons responsibility, the comments about having 3 drivers and not being interested in Latvala or Mikkelsen from last November again come to mind.

[mknight]

Agreed.

You have to like Meeke. That press confrence was brilliant. He walked that line between being firm and critising the team very well. He tells it as it is... defiantley friction in the team though. In this mood Meeke can win the rally, i think he is fed up with his treatment by Citroen.. and without clear instruction he will just drive like he done last year.

I just saw the press conference.

He does not walk any thin line, he criticized the team in the most harsh way possible without getting fired immediately in the very first sentence. First after than he shows some humility and tries to talk around it.

Also he really did say "things that he was pushing for, for years". Years when the car is max 1 year old? Must mean other things in the team.

[wrc2017]

Yes.. that is the line. What do you want him to do.. thank the team for laying him off. The terms years is maybe correct as the same problem were evident with DS3. You just cant disguise you hate of Meeke.
I just saw the press conference.

He does not walk any thin line, he criticized the team in the most harsh way possible without getting fired immediately in the very first sentence. First after than he shows some humility and tries to talk around it.

Also he really did say "things that he was pushing for, for years". Years when the car is max 1 year old? Must mean other things in the team.

[mknight]

Things like saying: "We are competitors so we want to compete....." totally fine...., then he adds " it was obviously not our decision" as well as "finally things are changing", things he was pushing "for years". That kind of stuff. If he only said the first sentence and then what he said for the second answer it would be perfectly diplomatic and would still get the message across.

I cheer Meek and wish him to do well so there is more competition in the championship. But I don't think his win or nothing attitude helped Citroen at all in the first part of the season and that he should be applauded for that.


As to the comments on DS3.... really? That DS3 that Loeb won 2 titles with? Give me a break.

[wrc2017]

Boke.. more verbal diarrhoea

Yes you forget Loeb only had Ford to beat.


Things like saying: "We are competitors so we want to compete....." totally fine...., then he adds " it was obviously not our decision" as well as "finally things are changing", things he was pushing "for years". That kind of stuff. If he only said the first sentence and then what he said for the second answer it would be perfectly diplomatic and would still get the message across.

I cheer Meek and wish him to do well so there is more competition in the championship. But I don't think his win or nothing attitude helped Citroen at all in the first part of the season and that he should be applauded for that.


As to the comments on DS3.... really? That DS3 that Loeb won 2 titles with? Give me a break.

[mknight]

Ok, now Loeb developed a fundamentally flawed DS3 with evident problems. BB

[wrc2017]

No it severed a purpose.
To beat a ford.
Ok, now Loeb developed a fundamentally flawed DS3 with evident problems. BB

[er88]

If Meeke had just done what Andreas did in his last two outings (crawled around the stages and finished 8th/9th/10th in every rally), what would that have achieved for Citroen? Lefebrve and Breen give them the data from most of the stages by getting the cars home to the finish (well Breen does, Lefebrve doesn't as much).

Meeke is the only driver who has actually showed the car CAN be fast. In fact he would have won twice if it wasn't for the car breaking down in Corisca. Things would look even worse for Citroen if the team had no idea that there was pace in the car. Meeke has proved it can be a winning car, and that it can fight for rally wins in certain circumstances.

That data at least proves that the car isn't a total dog. It needs a few big tweaks, but I still believe it doesn't need a complete overhaul ( and that's only because Meeke has won and led rallies in it).

Nobody can deny that he's crashed too much, but Citroen would be lost if it wasn't for him showing the car isn't totally useless.



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[mknight]

That is all well and true all the way down to Argentina after first crash....
At that point it was clear that the car can be fast, it was also clear that it probably had some issues and a change of approach was needed. The second crash in Argentina and the crashes in Portugal and Sardinia did nothing except add a huge repair bill. What's more in Sardinia Matton specifically told Meeke to finish at a comfortable pace.

But at that point Meeke was very much trapped in his own trap. He tried to show that he can be fast with the car even though he did not agree with the engineers, by doing that, they refused to change stuff cause why change the car when it's winning rallies .
=> Perfect self-trap from Meeke. If he would slow down they would ask "why are you not winning stages when you could in Mexico and lead in other rallies".

So yes in hindsight it seems there was no real choice for him but to keep on pushing at that point.


The only other option would have been to be slow from the start and keep on arguing that the car is not driveable (we have seen that on the onboard in Sweden). But I guess that starting in a lead in Mexico due to start position + overheating issues of other cars just did not let him do that.

On a side note, Mikkelsen crawling around in Sardinia (finally) convinced Citroen to start changing the car, but it's totally not certain that Meeke doing that in Mexico would have had the same effect. After Mexico and Corsica pace it was too late.

[Rally Power]

That press confrence was brilliant. He walked that line between being firm and critising the team very well. He tells it as it is... defiantley friction in the team though. In this mood Meeke can win the rally, i think he is fed up with his treatment by Citroen.. and without clear instruction he will just drive like he done last year.

There’s no doubt you’re a devoted Meeke fan, but your constant verbal diarrhoea (using your own words) makes hard for others rally fans to keep having sympathetic feelings for him. This shouldn’t be a war between Meeke and Matton/Citroen: it was Matton that sign Meeke in 2014, after Mr. Richards dump him in 2012 (BMW’s pull out isn’t an excuse, Prodrive continue entering Sordo in a large number of events); it was Matton that gave him another chance in 2015 and 2016, after a very irregular 2014 season from Meeke and it was Matton, again, that trust him the development of the new car for 2017, that Meeke permanently praised till the beginning of this year MC.

We don’t know what really went wrong inside the team during the winter (and/or before), but between blaming Meeke for all the team misfortunes (like the french press does) and eluding his error prone driving just to point out the team faults (like the brit journos do), for sure there’s a half way where the truth rest.

As any rally fan, I truly admire Meeke’s talent and bravery in the road and there’s no doubt he has became a icon of the sport because of his driving skills, but I see no point on promoting a few harsh remarks of today’s PC; even if he fells unfairly treated by Matton/Citroen, to avoid acting like a resented man, angry with those that allowed him to live his passion, and to focus on the driving challenge ahead is a much more positive way to go.

Hopefully Meeke and Citroen will be on the fight for the win on this fantastic rally and wins are the best tonic to solve all kind of issues in sports, so all fingers crossed for them!

[wia5958]

The only thing i would be worried about is that if meeke does win or acheives an impressive result is that citroen will praise mikkleson for the changes and or say they were right in their decision to rest meeke in poland and not give meeke any credit which could dent the mans confidence more than some of his roofskins this last while. But lets see how it goes hopefully all citroen drivers have a trouble free safe and succesfull rally the drivers and team need it

[Archie Gillaine]

after Mr. Richards dump him in 2012 (BMW’s pull out isn’t an excuse, Prodrive continue entering Sordo in a large number of events); it was Matton that gave him another chance in 2015 and 2016,

I'm sorry, but it was explained at the time; Meeke was dropped as he had no sponsors or budget - Sordo has always had backing & sponsors.

[wrc2017]

You really have no idea.
That is all well and true all the way down to Argentina after first crash....
At that point it was clear that the car can be fast, it was also clear that it probably had some issues and a change of approach was needed. The second crash in Argentina and the crashes in Portugal and Sardinia did nothing except add a huge repair bill. What's more in Sardinia Matton specifically told Meeke to finish at a comfortable pace.

But at that point Meeke was very much trapped in his own trap. He tried to show that he can be fast with the car even though he did not agree with the engineers, by doing that, they refused to change stuff cause why change the car when it's winning rallies .
=> Perfect self-trap from Meeke. If he would slow down they would ask "why are you not winning stages when you could in Mexico and lead in other rallies".

So yes in hindsight it seems there was no real choice for him but to keep on pushing at that point.


The only other option would have been to be slow from the start and keep on arguing that the car is not driveable (we have seen that on the onboard in Sweden). But I guess that starting in a lead in Mexico due to start position + overheating issues of other cars just did not let him do that.

On a side note, Mikkelsen crawling around in Sardinia (finally) convinced Citroen to start changing the car, but it's totally not certain that Meeke doing that in Mexico would have had the same effect. After Mexico and Corsica pace it was too late.

[noel157]

.

I cheer Meek and wish him to do well so there is more competition in the championship.

.

You sound as sincere as an American president at a boy scout meeting.
Ask admin to change the thread title to "Me and my Meeke hating obsession by MKnight"

[Rally Power]

I'm sorry, but it was explained at the time; Meeke was dropped as he had no sponsors or budget - Sordo has always had backing & sponsors.

Funny, at the time the spanish press said that Sordo went to Mini because he refused to become a paying driver at Citroen and that his only financial contribution to Prodrive in 2012 was to accept a wage cutback. It reminds Camilli situation at MSport; everybody keeps saying that FFSA and his personal sponsors pay for his seat, even if Wilson has, more than once, denied it.

[steve.mandzij]

Funny, at the time the spanish press said that Sordo went to Mini because he refused to become a paying driver at Citroen and that his only financial contribution to Prodrive in 2012 was to accept a wage cutback. It reminds Camilli situation at MSport; everybody keeps saying that FFSA and his personal sponsors pay for his seat, even if Wilson has, more than once, denied it.It's impossible that Wilson actually saw potential in Eric.

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[mknight]

Citroen WRT just had best friday since Corsica.

Breen is one position better on friday than last year with DS3.
Meeke did good in the first loop considering his testing, the car and other circumstances. Ok in the afternoon due to the steering dmg. Above all he kept it on the road and acknowledged that hitting a tree certainly does not help anything. Oh and he just barely dropped behind the winner of the last rally. (again due to the dmg).

But I see true fans are too busy identifying Meeke haters to be interested in that.

[Rally Power]

It's impossible that Wilson actually saw potential in Eric.

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He did, big time btw: “As for Eric, I honestly can’t remember the last time that I was this excited about a new driver (...) Eric’s WRC experience is limited, but I truly believe that he has all the makings of a future world champion”. MW, Dec. 2015
http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/fiesta-rs-wrc/m-sport-confirm-ostberg-and-camilli-for-2016

Fair to say that Camilli was pretty impressive in WRC2 and the kms he got in the Yaris TMG WRC proto also boosted his potential, which was praised by many (me included) before the ’16 MC. Then, regrettably, the disappointment began.

[Simmi]

While we're talking Camilli I'd like to see him get a couple more WRC car outings now just to see whether he's a bit more comfortable. He was fast-tracked just a bit too quickly. I think everyone acknowledges that. Suninen and Lappi obviously jumping straight in and being quick doesn't look great for guys like Camilli - but they had a bit more 4WD/R5 experience before being thrust into a works car.

We just didn't see enough flashes of speed from Eric. Which makes me think ultimately he's not on the same level.

[steve.mandzij]

While we're talking Camilli I'd like to see him get a couple more WRC car outings now just to see whether he's a bit more comfortable. He was fast-tracked just a bit too quickly. I think everyone acknowledges that. Suninen and Lappi obviously jumping straight in and being quick doesn't look great for guys like Camilli - but they had a bit more 4WD/R5 experience before being thrust into a works car.

We just didn't see enough flashes of speed from Eric. Which makes me think ultimately he's not on the same level.Eric had virtually no background at all going into his first season. It's a total mystery to me how Malcom thought he could be good. I disliked him all season last year for taking Evans' spot at M-Sport.

I will admit though, he seems to have improved a bit this year in WRC2. His times in some rallies were quite competitive; didn't he actually beat Tidemand in Portugal even though he wasn't entered for WRC2?



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[Rally Power]

I will admit though, he seems to have improved a bit this year in WRC2. His times in some rallies were quite competitive; didn't he actually beat Tidemand in Portugal even though he wasn't entered for WRC2?


Ok, for sure Huttunen is amazingly talented and as all Finns he looks like a fish inside the water on his home rally SS’s, but to see a work driver like Camilli being slower than a kid that’s getting his first R5 outing doesn’t help to believe the French has improved that much...

[steve.mandzij]

Ok, for sure Huttunen is amazingly talented and as all Finns he looks like a fish inside the water on his home rally SS’s, but to see a work driver like Camilli being slower than a kid that’s getting his first R5 outing doesn’t help to believe the French has improved that much...He was ahead overall yesterday, wasn't he? I might be wrong.

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[Myrvold]

Ok, for sure Huttunen is amazingly talented and as all Finns he looks like a fish inside the water on his home rally SS’s, but to see a work driver like Camilli being slower than a kid that’s getting his first R5 outing doesn’t help to believe the French has improved that much...

But at the same time Camilli haven't really been that far off the other WRC guys this year, then we can compare Tidemand and Lappi earlier years, and then look at Lappi now (or even Suninen).
So, Huttunen would be on Lappi-level already then?

[racerx1979]

What about Meeke? He didn't overdrive this event at all. It almost seems like he was under driving. At least since he's always over the limit it comes off this way. I've heard nothing but complaints from Al Qasimi, Breen and Meeke all weekend long. What can Loeb do to fixt this mess of a car?

[Eli]

What about Meeke? He didn't overdrive this event at all. It almost seems like he was under driving. At least since he's always over the limit it comes off this way. I've heard nothing but complaints from Al Qasimi, Breen and Meeke all weekend long. What can Loeb do to fixt this mess of a car?

Especially when the complaints are in a gravel event and not Tarmac which Loeb will be testing...don't know how they will sort it out but I hope they do it soon...'cause it's a shame seeing drivers like Breen being hampered on their progress by the car.

[mknight]

In a way the Loeb test on tarmac (where the car is best) seems more like an excuse so that he tells the engineers how good that car is and they then go to the drivers and say "Loeb said it's ok what are you complaining about?".

[Rally Power]

But at the same time Camilli haven't really been that far off the other WRC guys this year, then we can compare Tidemand and Lappi earlier years, and then look at Lappi now (or even Suninen).
So, Huttunen would be on Lappi-level already then?

You got me confused mate, but no matter the way you look at it, there’s no way Camilli will ever become WRC Champ.
Btw, Tidemand, Evans and Sunninen were a level below Lappi last year in WRC2; only tech issues and a minor driving mistake in Sweden prevent him to be champ much sooner.

[racerx1979]

In a way the Loeb test on tarmac (where the car is best) seems more like an excuse so that he tells the engineers how good that car is and they then go to the drivers and say "Loeb said it's ok what are you complaining about?".

It would be hilarious if Loeb said " uhhhh car is very very good uhhhh I think it's fine uhhh"

[macebig]

Maybe, compared to the C Elysee TC1 car, the C3 Wrc is a very good car. But compared to the rest of the Wrc field, C3 just isn't there yet...

[AnttiL]

http://www.sportti.com/uutinen.asp?CAT=1-2&ID=344228

Meeke repeats problems in the geometry / suspension. He also admits they were supposed to have a week long PET in Finland a month ago but it was cancelled, and he refuses to say why it was cancelled.

[Allez Andruet]

http://www.sportti.com/uutinen.asp?CAT=1-2&ID=344228

Meeke repeats problems in the geometry / suspension. He also admits they were supposed to have a week long PET in Finland a month ago but it was cancelled, and he refuses to say why it was cancelled.

What are the odds for Meeke driving for the team in 2018...? You just can't avoid getting the feeling from every single interview and basically from everything Meeke says, that there is just something seriously not right in the team - and it's not only regarding the C3 itself, there must something else as well.

Btw, did anyone catch the news that local rally radio commentator Riku Tahko announced (he claimed to have heard it from an insider) before the PS today, that Citroen has snatched the "chief engineer" (who wasn't identified) from M-Sport for 2018? Or was it even news at all?

[mknight]

What are the odds for Meeke driving for the team in 2018...? You just can't avoid getting the feeling from every single interview and basically from everything Meeke says, that there is just something seriously not right in the team - and it's not only regarding the C3 itself, there must something else as well.

Btw, did anyone catch the news that local rally radio commentator Riku Tahko announced (he claimed to have heard it from an insider) before the PS today, that Citroen has snatched the "chief engineer" (who wasn't identified) from M-Sport for 2018? Or was it even news at all?

If you compare the after-stage comments between the two drivers there certainly was quite some difference. I dare not say more else the hater pointing mafia will be on me.

That said it might also be due to their personalities, listening to Lappi and Sunninen is also completely different even when they both do well.

Interesting news about engineers, in general I think there is too little info about them. They are quite important for the end results often more than the team managers (but then again team managers usually choose the engineers).
I wonder what FX is doing (Polo chief engineer/designer). Not quite sure he would be interested in joining Citroen, I think he left them to work for Solbergs team before going to VW, dunno for what reason. But he might be interested in joining others.

[Eli]

http://www.auto-moto.com/actualite/sport/wrc/yves-matton-citroen-porte-ouverte-discuter-sebastien-ogier-126165.html#item=1

Has anyone seen this? it says next year Meeke will do the full season & the other 2 will do some rallies....this interview was held before the start of Rally Finland.

[mknight]

http://www.auto-moto.com/actualite/sport/wrc/yves-matton-citroen-porte-ouverte-discuter-sebastien-ogier-126165.html#item=1

Has anyone seen this? it says next year Meeke will do the full season & the other 2 will do some rallies....this interview was held before the start of Rally Finland.

I'd interpret it more like "of the three drivers that have contract Meeke will drive whole season while Breen and Lefevbre will do only some rallies".

=>
- sucks for Breen as he did well on all rallies except Poland this year
- opens for one more full time driver


But that's just my interpretation. He might also mean that they won't do full season with all drivers to focus on car development (heard that before).

EDIT: Note that he also says Mikkelsen told them Hyundai went in same direction as Citroen and made same errors. First time something like that gets mentioned. But the whole answer sounds like an excuse when he says that Mikkelsen confirmed their design choices. I mean that's why after he came they fired some engineers, did long test and homologated new parts.

[Eli]

I'd interpret it more like "of the three drivers that have contract Meeke will drive whole season while Breen and Lefevbre will do only some rallies".

=>
- sucks for Breen as he did well on all rallies except Poland this year
- opens for one more full time driver


But that's just my interpretation. He might also mean that they won't do full season with all drivers to focus on car development (heard that before).Really hope to see Breen do all the rallies, would be so unfair to him if he doesn't.

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[stefanvv]

He might also mean that they won't do full season with all drivers to focus on car development (heard that before).

How so? I though they had this year for "just some wins/podiums" (which they already had) and go a full campaign in 2018? Something makes me think it was just a mind game (Meeke going for it every single round, or could be just Meeke doing it on his own?!?), which doesn't conflicts with current statement also.

EDIT: On other note they might consider Loeb doing some rounds?

[mknight]

Google translate:
"How are you preparing next season, both technically and humanly?

Yves Matton: Our three drivers have a 2018 contract, Kris Meeke is doing a complete championship and the other two will do a number of rallies. "

Clearly he does not mention how many cars they will drive.

But he is often contradicting himself in own sentences.

[stefanvv]

But he is often contradicting himself in own sentences.

Yeah, he is so unsure of the situation. Might be just the owner's management.

[AnttiL]

To me it sounds like they're reserving a seat for Ogier

[er88]

To me it sounds like they're reserving a seat for OgierThat's why Mikkelsen wasn't hired for more than a rally by rally basis

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[Myrvold]

I wonder what FX is doing (Polo chief engineer/designer). Not quite sure he would be interested in joining Citroen, I think he left them to work for Solbergs team before going to VW, dunno for what reason. But he might be interested in joining others.

FX is back with Solberg, working with the RX programme at least.

[Simmi]

Yeah if that sentence is translated correctly it seems that Matton may not want to over-commit on what the programme for Breen/Lefebvre will be. Clearly as a whole that trio isn't strong enough.

Again, why they were handing out two-year contracts like confetti last year I don't know...

[GigiGalliNo1]

Breen seems to be their only light. Perhaps the real number 1, number 2 driver to keep. Meaning he's the best number 2 driver for the team! Now they have to find their number 1!

[AnttiL]

http://int-media.citroen.com/en/verdict-jyv%C3%A4skyl%C3%A4/Citro%C3%ABn%20Racing Official press release and Matton's comments after Finland.

[wrc2017]

For once i agree.
In a way the Loeb test on tarmac (where the car is best) seems more like an excuse so that he tells the engineers how good that car is and they then go to the drivers and say "Loeb said it's ok what are you complaining about?".

[Rally Power]

http://www.auto-moto.com/actualite/sport/wrc/yves-matton-citroen-porte-ouverte-discuter-sebastien-ogier-126165.html#item=1

Has anyone seen this? it says next year Meeke will do the full season & the other 2 will do some rallies....this interview was held before the start of Rally Finland.

For sure Citroen will eventually get to the top, but I’m really amazed with the team erratic communication on such a difficult phase.

Showing no sign of coordination, Matton, Meeke, Breen, Al-Qassimi and even Lefebvre gave interviews to that Auto Moto journo. After the sudden announcement of Loeb’s test, Matton has now decided to speculate about next year drivers, including a possible Ogier deal, while the current line-up issues aren’t yet stabilized...Al Qassimi was even more inconvenient: for him the current situation is a “disaster” and as Abu Dhabi partnership is decided on a one year basis, he doesn’t know if it’ll be extend to 2018. Surprise: for once Meeke eased up a bit on his usual car crap talk and even admitted some driving mistakes. As always, Breen and Lefebvre were more sensible and restrained by saying they believe on the car potential and on the hard work the team is doing (some personal notes: Corsica is Breen favourite rally; Lefebvre will be the C3 R5 developer and they both still prefer tarmac events).

Btw, it’s also puzzling why Mr. Tavares (PSA boss and a known petrolhead) is taking so long to get involved; he was able to turn around PSA, for sure he can help in Citroen Racing current situation.

[AMSS]

For sure Citroen will eventually get to the top, but I’m really amazed with the team erratic communication on such a difficult phase.

Showing no sign of coordination, Matton, Meeke, Breen, Al-Qassimi and even Lefebvre gave interviews to that Auto Moto journo. After the sudden announcement of Loeb’s test, Matton has now decided to speculate about next year drivers, including a possible Ogier deal, while the current line-up issues aren’t yet stabilized...Al Qassimi was even more inconvenient: for him the current situation is a “disaster” and as Abu Dhabi partnership is decided on a one year basis, he doesn’t know if it’ll be extend to 2018. Surprise: for once Meeke eased up a bit on his usual car crap talk and even admitted some driving mistakes. As always, Breen and Lefebvre were more sensible and restrained by saying they believe on the car potential and on the hard work the team is doing (some personal notes: Corsica is Breen favourite rally; Lefebvre will be the C3 R5 developer and they both still prefer tarmac events).

Btw, it’s also puzzling why Mr. Tavares (PSA boss and a known petrolhead) is taking so long to get involved; he was able to turn around PSA, for sure he can help in Citroen Racing current situation.

I haven`t heard the Al-Qassimi interview but if he really said that than there might be the opportunity M-sport is looking for... :)

[Munkvy]

The next rally will be very interesting, especially if Meeke is on podium pace and Andreas isn't.

Perhaps part of the reason for the Loeb test is to make sure they have the best chance of performing well in Germany? They have talked about targeting events for the rest of the year for good results, this might be their way of doing what they can to guarantee a win?

[AnttiL]

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/citroen-not-ruling-out-loeb-for-2018-wrc/

So, Loeb might compete next year...

[Eli]

This will certainly heat things up for this year in the Citroen camp, & spice things up for next season in the WRC fold.

[Jinu13]

Bit awkward for the current Citroen drivers plus additional ones, especially them only finding out at the official announcement.

If we're going old skool, can we have Subaru back too? :)

[mknight]

Lancia or not enough old school...

or what about rebranding 2017 Polo as Audi A3 :D

[doubled1978]

That Matton is even mentioning in public that it is possible that Loeb COULD come back next year, must surely indicate they have talked about that possibility internally.

[er88]

Loeb coming back fulltime would be great as a driver who could regular bring in pts, like 4th/5th places and a few podiums. Similar to what Sainz did in his later years.

Don't expect Loeb to come back and be able to fight for wins regularly, besides maybe Monte, Corsica and Germany etc, especially in the C3 with all its problems (even though the suspension will be totally overhauled and other changes made before 2018).

However I still don't see him coming back after so long away, unless he's happy to just enjoy the driving and settle with not being at the top of the time sheets. Meeke, Breen and Loeb is certainly a very good team on paper, with Breen and Loeb the reliable points scoring drivers and Meeke the one who will more regularly challenge for wins (along with crashing). The manufacturers title will be a big aim for Citroen so Matton has to get the driver line-up right and the car improved, or else he'll be out on his arse halfway through next year at the latest.

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[Simmi]

A Loeb return is an interesting one. There are so many factors in play.

First off Citroen/Matton are really desperate here. To create the whole PSA Motorsport angle, very publicly announce Loeb's test, and then give away soundbites about him potentially doing rallies - that's going to do nothing but destabilize an already rocked trio of contracted drivers. As if having Mikkelsen do three rallies and taking their seat time wasn't bad enough!

Bringing in Loeb feels perhaps like something to appease the brand at board level. And 12 months too late if he's just testing the car. It also probably took a grovelling apology after the way Citroen treated Loeb at the end of his WTCC career.

Monte Carlo 2018 would be three years removed from his last competitive WRC outing. I'm just not sure how quick he'd be. I've no doubt like er88 said he'd be a steady pair of hands and score some decent points. But it's tough to expect him to pick up where he left off.

The other thing is whether Loeb would even want a full-time return? I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to be stuck in WRX for the next five years, so I guess this could be pretty tempting. That said, is coming back and battling for 5th/6th with a questionable car going to do his legacy any good? He's certainly got nothing to prove, so maybe he doesn't mind about that. Maybe he'd be happy with a select programme of events. But how is running a 44 year old on a limited programme really solving any of Citroen's problems? It will likely just cause a distraction with all the fanfare Loeb will bring. Plus he's blocking the progress of their contracted drivers.

I'd love to see him back. I just don't see how it's really worth it for all parties involved.

[mknight]

I'd love to see him back. I just don't see how it's really worth it for all parties involved.

No matter how he ends it will be a huge "positive" PR for Citroen in France and elsewhere. I think they kind of need it after Ogier being in the headlines for 4 years and now Ogier and Neuville (french speaking).

Otherwise I agree with what you wrote.

[cancan]

Citroen management seem to be running their WRT like Trump running the White House these days.
Doesn't seem to matter how bad a job you are doing as long as you are grabbing headlines.....
All this is to distract from the fact that the car is rubbish.
I suppose no manufacturer wants to pay millions for the world to think they can't build a car right....

[BigWorm]

Loeb would bring solid points every event to Citroën, something Meeke and Lefebvre don't. I understand why they would turn to Loeb since how desperate Citroën's situation is, rock bottom is just not what they expected and came for.

[doubled1978]

I'm sure having Loeb test the car is a good move as he does have experience of cars with active centre diffs, and was pretty handy at driving them.
As for him driving events, only he knows if he has the motivation for a full season again, but I wouldn't bet against him being quick enough if he is motivated enough.
I have no idea how the budgets work for this new PSA Motorsport, but the fact that Loeb is already on the PSA payroll must be appealing....Ogier would be an additional expense as Loeb would still be in the PSA group one way or another next year.

[jparker]

I don't remember any rally champ coming back at later time, and being equally fast as in his best years.
Even 5th or 6th looks to high to me.
I guess Citroen just need somebody who can find out what's wrong with that car.

[DonJippo]

I guess Citroen just need somebody who can find out what's wrong with that car.

I am pretty sure they know what is wrong with that car, there is just so little they can do about it right now.

[Rally Power]

I am pretty sure they know what is wrong with that car, there is just so little they can do about it right now.
That could be the case and it raises a question: if the issues are fundamental, can a few joker parts fix the car?


https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/citroen-not-ruling-out-loeb-for-2018-wrc/ So, Loeb might compete next year...
Matton’s words have little value nowadays, but his recent comment about Meeke being in all 2018 rallys and the other two guys having to share a car makes some sense if Loeb returns half time. But probably during next week Matton will come out and say something different...


I haven`t heard the Al-Qassimi interview
Here: http://www.auto-moto.com/actualite/sport/wrc/khalid-al-qassimi-citroen-abu-dhabi-partenariat-redevenir-gagnant-126652.html#item=1
By clicking on WRC (above Qassimi’s name) one gets all interviews.

[wrc2017]

Meeke's engineer

http://www.auto-moto.com/actualite/sport/wrc/kevin-struyf-citroen-10-questions-a-lingenieur-de-kris-meeke-126689.html#item=1

[Tarmop]

I don't remember any rally champ coming back at later time, and being equally fast as in his best years.
Even 5th or 6th looks to high to me.
I guess Citroen just need somebody who can find out what's wrong with that car.

But do you remember any one of them taking 9 WDC titles?

[jparker]

But do you remember any one of them taking 9 WDC titles?

For sure he's trying to leave his mark in history as much as he can. It will be interesting if he returns, that's for sure, but I'm a bit sceptical.

[wrc2017]

is it just me, or does this look slow.. very hesitant and wide slow corner exits, in many places.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY_CBbfP39Q

[mknight]

is it just me, or does this look slow.. very hesitant and wide slow corner exits, in many places.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY_CBbfP39Q

It's just you, it doesn't look excessively slow (we are not talking Ogier Toyota vid), latest experience (Hyundai Finland, C3 before season), clearly shows that judging speed by over-analyzing test vids is not a good idea.

What's more interesting is that it IMO looks more like development test aimed prbly at dif.maps more than a test for Deutschland.
Certainly compared to Breen's test as well as all the recent Hyundai tests. Would be consistent with the announced aim of testing for development and not for specific rally setup. That said it can be biased by where the guy taking the vid choose to film.

[wrc2017]

Nahh.. looks slow.
You said its me, then you said it could be positioning of camera.
Make up your mind.
It's just you, it doesn't look excessively slow (we are not talking Ogier Toyota vid), latest experience (Hyundai Finland, C3 before season), clearly shows that judging speed by over-analyzing test vids is not a good idea.

What's more interesting is that it IMO looks more like development test aimed prbly at dif.maps more than a test for Deutschland.
Certainly compared to Breen's test as well as all the recent Hyundai tests. Would be consistent with the announced aim of testing for development and not for specific rally setup. That said it can be biased by where the guy taking the vid choose to film.

[mknight]

The impression that it's a dif. map development test could be due to camera position (most of the time at the hairpin and other tight corners in the forest).

[wrc2017]

Its a pre-event setup test.
Not a development test.
The impression that it's a dif. map development test could be due to camera position (most of the time at the hairpin and other tight corners in the forest).

[AnttiL]

Its a pre-event setup test.
Not a development test.

Matton just announced that they're focusing on developing the car for 2018, not to set up the car for certain events

[dimviii]

Matton just announced that they're focusing on developing the car for 2018, not to set up the car for certain events

you cant separate these 2 (development for 2018 and car setup for the current rally)

[electroliquid]

for development purposes can't, but for PR could.

[wrc2017]

My point is mknight thinks he can tell its a "diff map development test" from a youtube video. More nonsense.

[mknight]

My point is mknight thinks he can tell its a "diff map development test" from a youtube video. More nonsense.

I wrote it "looked more like" and that "probably for dif." adding that they claimed they wouldn't be focusing so much on specific setup for events.

You claim to know that it's pre-event setup test (stating it as a fact). There is a big difference between perception/opinion and facts, mixing the two is certainly popular recently. Therefore I make clear distinction between the two.
-------------


for development purposes can't, but for PR could.

Can't agree with that.
- For development (specially in early stage/on basic level) you want to have as many things as possible constant.
- For pre-event setup you want conditions most representative for the event, so for Germany you can have half stage as hairpins with bumps and half with long fast corners on smooth tarmac. Setup for one is not ideal for the other, so the event setup will be a compromise that works ok on both.

Obviously if the basics are ok and you understand how the car works development has to move from "perfect" conditions to something more resembling stages.

[wrc2017]

You claim to know that it's pre-event setup test (stating it as a fact). There is a big difference between perception/opinion and facts, mixing the two is certainly popular recently. Therefore I make clear distinction between the two.


yes, i do know.

Citroën Racing @CitroenRacing
Hi for Germany! @krismeeke is back on tarmac with Sean Nolan! @paulnagle1 had a family function, he will be back for @ADACRallye! #PET #WRC

[wrc2017]

interesting...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlAI3DmNOlY

[racerx1979]

New co-driver for Meeke is an interesting situation. I thought Nagle was a bit late at note calling, but maybe that was Meekes preference. Let's see how he does with Nolan...

[noel157]

New co-driver for Meeke is an interesting situation. I thought Nagle was a bit late at note calling, but maybe that was Meekes preference. Let's see how he does with Nolan...

Wrong end of the stick, Sean Nolan is deputising for Paul Nagle in the test, nothing else so you'll not find out "how he goes with Nolan".

[racerx1979]

^^^. That's what I get for posting while drunk on my way to Estonia from Helsinki :)

[nafpaktos]

interesting...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlAI3DmNOlY

i don't remember exactly when but they tested again this year with the old car.PET for corse?

[er88]

i don't remember exactly when but they tested again this year with the old car.PET for corse?Yep, before their PET for Corsica. And it seemingly worked

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[AnttiL]

http://mmuk.realviewdigital.com/?iid=154760#folio=40

This states that Citroen used complete Ohlins dampers in Finland for the first time. Instead of their own?

[Jinu13]

Wrong end of the stick, Sean Nolan is deputising for Paul Nagle in the test, nothing else so you'll not find out "how he goes with Nolan".

This season there's been a lot of "one offs" and "never going to happens" which have nonetheless worked their way into the line-up at Citroen. If the official line is "just for the test" we may as well expect something else for 2018.

[seb_sh]

It can be a number of things. Tanak was seen testing his new co-driver before it was announced but also Ogier was tested with Camilli's co-driver several times. The reason can range from preparing to change to having a backup to simple unavailability due to personal reasons.

[wrc2017]

It can be a number of things. Tanak was seen testing his new co-driver before it was announced but also Ogier was tested with Camilli's co-driver several times. The reason can range from preparing to change to having a backup to simple unavailability due to personal reasons.

if you research nolan, he has done next to no co-driving, so he is not a legitimate replacement, and from killarney, so likely nagel just recommended him in his absence. that took all of 1 min google research, but probably event that is too much effort for most rumour mongers.

[Myrvold]

if you research nolan, he has done next to no co-driving, so he is not a legitimate replacement, and from killarney, so likely nagel just recommended him in his absence. that took all of 1 min google research, but probably event that is too much effort for most rumour mongers.

Neither had Anders Jæger though. No idea if Nolan have been working with Meeke/Nagle previously though.

[steve.mandzij]

Neither had Anders Jæger though. No idea if Nolan have been working with Meeke/Nagle previously though.How do people even get started co-driving?

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[Hartusvuori]

http://mmuk.realviewdigital.com/?iid=154760#folio=40

This states that Citroen used complete Ohlins dampers in Finland for the first time. Instead of their own?

Ohlins personnel were seen on site at Citroen's PETs for Finland.

[seb_sh]

if you research nolan, he has done next to no co-driving, so he is not a legitimate replacement, and from killarney, so likely nagel just recommended him in his absence. that took all of 1 min google research, but probably event that is too much effort for most rumour mongers.

How the hell is what I said rumor mongering? Also, lose the attitude, this is not kindergarten.

[wrc2017]

How the hell is what I said rumor mongering? Also, lose the attitude, this is not kindergarten.
sounds like your still in kindergarten little boy.

[noel157]

Ohlins personnel were seen on site at Citroen's PETs for Finland.

Ohlins were tested on the car in a French/Spanish test earlier this year.

[TWRC]

http://mmuk.realviewdigital.com/?iid=154760#folio=40

This states that Citroen used complete Ohlins dampers in Finland for the first time. Instead of their own?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4axn5CSG0Q
In this video, only the front dampers have gold reservoirs, the rear reservoirs appear very similar to the DS3 WRC's. But this doesn't mean they aren't Öhlins of course.

[wrc2017]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVzkV-9Rx7w&feature=youtu.be

Defiantly feels are if there are getting the marketing dept behind this.

Back slapping exercise in how good the car in on tarmac.

They will never put him in a car for remaining rallies for 2017, cause the gravel will not suit that car.

They would only 'risk' bringing Loeb back for Monte 2018.

Also making a big deal of test, but also cancelling proper development proper makes no sense.

I'd really like Meeke is have a good result in Germany, to prove what we already know.

[racerx1979]

It's such a big deal just for a test. Maybe there is more to this. Loeb in 2018?? Or just marketing hype to help with Citroens lackluster results

[Munkvy]

This does seem like an easy PR win for them, getting the worlds greatest rally driver out in your car is sure to get them some media exposure. And if as a plus he can help set the car up for Germany, and increase their chances of winning, that's not a bad thing?

Although I think the pressure is really on the existing drivers, as the car proved in Corsica it is fast enough on tarmac, now they need to deliver without excuses, while their team environment seems pretty messy at the moment, not a great combination for confidence!

[dimviii]

The nine-time world champion drove the French manufacturer’s C3 on asphalt and told wrc.com afterwards: “The feeling was really good. It was impressive how fast it is in the fast corners compared to an old World Rally Car.”
Loeb was partnered by regular co-driver Daniel Elena for the test in the Moselle region of France, near Strasbourg. After heavy rain in the morning, conditions improved in the afternoon to allow Loeb to experience the car on dry roads also.
“The feeling on the dry Tarmac at the end was really fast. I do not have a lot of cars to compare, but compared to the old WRCs, everything is a little bit better,” he said.
“It was difficult to get the feeling in the wet conditions in the morning. It was raining a lot and the tyres were really hard for those conditions. The car is more nervous than an old WRC, so that made it quite complicated, but at the end of the day the feeling in the dry was very good.”
Loeb provided plenty of feedback to Citroën Racing team principal Yves Matton and his engineers and urged the team to work on the C3’s driveability.

Loeb's test was initially hampered by rain
“The first feeling was that it was a bit of a racing car on a rally stage. When it’s full dry, it’s fast and efficient, but in tricky conditions it would be nice to improve a bit the driveability and make it easier to drive,” explained the 43-year-old.
Loeb denied the test could be the start of a WRC comeback with Citroën, for whom he dominated the championship between 2004 and 2012. He scored 78 wins and his last appearance was at the 2015 Rallye Monte-Carlo.
“The plan was just to come here to test the car. For me it was a good opportunity to discover the new WRC cars and for Citroën it was an opportunity to have my comments about the car, with my experience of general rally.
“At the moment we do not have any plan for the future,” added Loeb, who currently drives with PSA stablemate Peugeot in world rallycross and cross-country rallies.

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/august-2017/loeb-test/page/4765--12-12-.html

[dimviii]

something we don't know from French speaking mates?

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_08_2017/post-365-0-24865300-1502233049.png

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_08_2017/post-365-0-74279400-1502233143.png

[Hartusvuori]

Ohlins were tested on the car in a French/Spanish test earlier this year.

My friend reminded about a photo from #Test3, early June 2016 in Finland, with guys in Öhlins jackets. So they've been involved in some way all the time.

[mknight]

I'd really like Meeke is have a good result in Germany, to prove what we already know.

Thank you for identifying your position so clearly.

You do not wish for Citroen team to have a good result, you wish for Meeke to have a good result.

So let's follow on with this. Say Meeke manages top 4 times consistently and finishes 3rd while the other two are 7-10.
That would prove that Meeke can be fast while sometimes finishing a rally, yes we know that.

Does that say very much about how good the car is on tarmac? Not really. The main issue as also voiced by Loeb now seems to be narrow "working window" of the car. So sometimes it works for one driver (Meeke in Mexico, Lefevbre in Poland, Breen in Finland) but it doesn't work well for more drivers consistently.

[wrc2017]

Are you forgetting Corsica?
We know Meeke is quick on all surfaces.
Tarmac is not the problem for Citroen DS3 but still Loeb finds it difficult.
Why do you now believe Loeb about car issues, but not Meeke earlier in year?

Thank you for identifying your position so clearly.

You do not wish for Citroen team to have a good result, you wish for Meeke to have a good result.

So let's follow on with this. Say Meeke manages top 4 times consistently and finishes 3rd while the other two are 7-10.
That would prove that Meeke can be fast while sometimes finishing a rally, yes we know that.

Does that say very much about how good the car is on tarmac? Not really. The main issue as also voiced by Loeb now seems to be narrow "working window" of the car. So sometimes it works for one driver (Meeke in Mexico, Lefevbre in Poland, Breen in Finland) but it doesn't work well for more drivers consistently.

[sonnybobiche]

something we don't know from French speaking mates?


Strange title, because in the first answer he gives he's just talking about how much more nervous and twitchy "the modern cars" (read: the C3) are, and how they are brutal and hard to understand their behavior, especially in the wet. The most important thing was to not crash. The conditions got better throughout the day and that improved the behavior a lot. In dry tarmac the car is very fast.

[AnttiL]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/august-2017/loeb-gravel-test/page/4766--12-12-.html

Matton would like Loeb to do gravel test as well

[gorganl2000]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/august-2017/loeb-gravel-test/page/4766--12-12-.html

Matton would like Loeb to do gravel test as well

i think that would provide invaluable insight to the team as well. And i'd suggest allowing him to test on various gravel surfaces when the team does PETs/testing to maximise the input from all the drivers and Loeb

[tomhlord]

“The first feeling was that it was a bit of a racing car on a rally stage. When it’s full dry, it’s fast and efficient, but in tricky conditions it would be nice to improve a bit the driveability and make it easier to drive,”

So now they have feedback from Breen, Meeke, Mikkelsen, Lefebvre and Loeb, and they all sound very similar. On dry tarmac it's a WTCC car, outside of that window it's a tricky sod. It's a shame it took this long to realise that.

[Rally Power]

something we don't know from French speaking mates?

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_08_2017/post-365-0-24865300-1502233049.png

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_08_2017/post-365-0-74279400-1502233143.png

Great piece, thanks for sharing it dimvii. The L’Equipe journo does a fantastic job describing the atmosphere around this very special day for Loeb and Citroen, as this wasn’t just a ordinary test session; it was the return of the 9 times champ to a WRC car and to his long time team. Besides Loeb’s comments on the C3 (like sonnybobiche already mentioned), we got to know that Loeb, his entourage and the whole Citroen team were delighted and there was a tangible feeling that this could be the start of something big. For now, both Matton and Loeb just talked about a possible gravel test coming next.

Some quotes:
Loeb “My first motivation was to discover the potential of these new cars. The engine goes strong, it takes more revs than the old ones, there’s more aero force and I must admit I wasn’t expecting for such a corner speed difference, on the dry, from the previous generation cars, like the DS3”; “I’ve the feeling I’m still quick behind the well”. Elena “the pace notes come out as before, it’s like we had never stopped”.

[mknight]

Are you forgetting Corsica?
We know Meeke is quick on all surfaces.
Tarmac is not the problem for Citroen DS3 but still Loeb finds it difficult.
Why do you now believe Loeb about car issues, but not Meeke earlier in year?

In 2016 Corsica Meeke beat Ogier in Polo on one stage by 17 seconds saying he didn't feel they were going very fast... and then ripped a wheel off on the next. This year with C3 he got to drive 6 stages. Breen was about same speed on Corsica as all other rallies. Yes we know Meeke can be quick on all surfaces and sometimes can even finish, but Corsica this year didn't particularly stand out compared with results with DS3. Btw. Breen also had about same speed in Finland with C3 as he did with DS3. In the interview between Poland and Finland Lefevbre said that in Poland the car was perfect for him whole weekend and was doing exactly what he wanted.

If a single driver (Meeke or anyone else) does well in C3 in a single rally while the rest of the team struggles, it does not show the car has changed in any way or that it's consistently good at that surface.

Up until now nobody openly complained about C3 on tarmac, Loeb is the first one.

To the last point: I do not believe any car issues "force" a driver to crash 4 times in 3 rallies from first place. Anyway there is an own thread for Meeke:
http://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?37265-Thoughts-on-Kris-Meeke-s-Recent-Performances

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGxcBYNWAAEbDeZ.jpg:large

[wrc2017]

uuuurrrgggghhhh... boke!

In 2016 Corsica Meeke beat Ogier in Polo on one stage by 17 seconds saying he didn't feel they were going very fast... and then ripped a wheel off on the next. This year with C3 he got to drive 6 stages. Breen was about same speed on Corsica as all other rallies. Yes we know Meeke can be quick on all surfaces and sometimes can even finish, but Corsica this year didn't particularly stand out compared with results with DS3. Btw. Breen also had about same speed in Finland with C3 as he did with DS3. In the interview between Poland and Finland Lefevbre said that in Poland the car was perfect for him whole weekend and was doing exactly what he wanted.

If a single driver (Meeke or anyone else) does well in C3 in a single rally while the rest of the team struggles, it does not show the car has changed in any way or that it's consistently good at that surface.

Up until now nobody openly complained about C3 on tarmac, Loeb is the first one.

To the last point: I do not believe any car issues "force" a driver to crash 4 times in 3 rallies from first place. Anyway there is an own thread for Meeke:
http://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?37265-Thoughts-on-Kris-Meeke-s-Recent-Performances

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Still looks :cool:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGzKJ_6XUAE2gHl.jpg

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGyJZS3W0AA1RFA.jpg

[doubled1978]

I think what Loeb said about the car basically backs up what has been said on here, in low traction conditions the rear is loose and makes the car hard to drive. When the traction is high its very good.
I have to admit, I'd like to see him have a go at it again...

[Mirek]

Still looks :cool:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGzKJ_6XUAE2gHl.jpg

That's Alain Delon! :p

[N.O.T]

Loeb has nothing of value to bring to the sport from a driving perspective... apart from tarnishing his legacy.

[Munkvy]

Loeb has nothing of value to bring to the sport from a driving perspective... apart from tarnishing his legacy.

I think if he is careful and picks just the rallies he stands a good chance of winning, ie Monte, Germany, Argentina etc. Then as long as he is well prepared and gets a good road position, he has a chance? And it certainly seems Citroen are using him for some positive PR for a change.

[Toyoda]

Loeb has nothing of value to bring to the sport from a driving perspective... apart from tarnishing his legacy.

Tarnish away, would be still interesting to watch and that is ultimately what we want

[N.O.T]

And it certainly seems Citroen are using him for some positive PR for a change.

I think that is the case as well...

[racerx1979]

http://www.captiongenerator.com/643382/Citroen-C3-WRC-

Don't know who to credit for this, but be sure to turn on the subtitles ;)

[Eli]

http://www.captiongenerator.com/643382/Citroen-C3-WRC-

Don't know who to credit for this, but be sure to turn on the subtitles ;)

It's great lol

[racerx1979]

The part where he is describing the sliding and bouncing is on point! haha.

[sonnybobiche]

Hell, as long as we're plugging rally themed Hitler Rants, here's mine from way back in February, when they cancelled that stage in Sweden: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2gcWcyMjjs

[Rally Power]

2. "Loeb will be as fast as when he left." I can't see that. Sure he would be top 3 on Monte, Corsica, Germany, Spain (can use Sordo as reference)... but on gravel I don't think so. Furthermore I can't really see him doing all rounds with 18 hour days and 50+ deg in the car during stages. Bringing him for a few rounds per year for PR, feedback and some teampoints, sure good idea. Bringing him for full year not good PR for either Citroen or Loeb in the long run... that said the signals clearly are out that it's possible.


Loeb was always clever and wise; if he decides to return we can be sure he’ll be able to win, as there’s no one better than himself to judge how competitive he can still be.

On the L’Equipe piece, Dominique Heintz, one of Loeb’s mentors and current partner on SL Racing, was pretty realistic about Loeb's personal risk: ”I would tend to think that he leaved rally too earlier and I’ve said to him that a comeback shouldn’t be thought lightly.(...) If he returns to rally and starts winning like before he’ll be a megastar. But if that doesn’t happen it may become very hard for him to cope with it.”

Like everybody else, I’m pretty excited with the news and truly hoping he’ll be in WRC next year. It’s hard not to think on Lauda’s F1 ’84 epic title and believe Loeb can be equally well succeeded. It’d be great for him; it’d be great for WRC. Fingers crossed!

[the sniper]

Hell, as long as we're plugging rally themed Hitler Rants, here's mine from way back in February, when they cancelled that stage in Sweden: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2gcWcyMjjs

I remember it, still one of my favourite Downfall adaptions!

[swanny]

Both of those vids are pretty well done :D.

[swanny]

Problem with Loeb for Citroen is that he hasn't got his Dakar yet compared to WRC where he's done it all. I assume he's going to have another go at Dakar next year...

[AnttiL]

Problem with Loeb for Citroen is that he hasn't got his Dakar yet compared to WRC where he's done it all. I assume he's going to have another go at Dakar next year...

...which is at the same time as Monte Carlo

[Eli]

...which is at the same time as Monte CarloThe Dakar finishes a week before Monte, the rally is now a week later.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[AnttiL]

The Dakar finishes a week before Monte, the rally is now a week later.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Right, Dakar ends on saturday 20th and then Monte shakedown is on wednesday 24th with recce in between. Well, doable, but not probably the best way to prepare for a return to the WRC.

[Eli]

Right, Dakar ends on saturday 20th and then Monte shakedown is on wednesday 24th with recce in between. Well, doable, but not probably the best way to prepare for a return to the WRC.Probably not, who knows, maybe he'll come to Sweden, Argentina, Corsica & Germany (instead of MC). Something similar to what he did back then in 2013.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[AnttiL]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/131266/loeb-open-to-further-c3-wrc-outings


Asked if he would be interested in testing again, Loeb told L'Equipe: "Making kilometres and kilometres of testing is not the most exciting, but when there are things to discover and you have not been driving the same car for 15 years then it's nice.

"I don't see myself doing tests all year, but a day from time-to-time, why not?"

He added that a gravel test was possible, but not something he had discussed with team principal Yves Matton.

Loeb, whose last competitive WRC outing was in 2015, said he felt he had lost none of the speed that carried him to 78 world rally wins.

"When I was driving, I had the feeling that nothing has changed and that I'm still as fast," he said.

"But my motivation [with the test] was the find the potential of these new cars and I have to admit I did not expect such a difference in the speed in the corners and in the dry."

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Interesting answer by Yves Matton at Rally Germany:

Q:
Your current drivers are all under contract for next season. Are you also looking at other drivers?

YM:
It is for sure an interesting time of the year. Everybody is keen to speak with everybody. Craig, Stéphane and Kris are under contract and will be part of the team next year. Andreas is also with us and we are also speaking with other drivers who won an event or nearly won an event before. We are lucky to make a plan in September which is quite free from events, and then I can give it to my CEO and then we will make a decision.

[KKS]

And who nearly won first event? Evans?

[pantealex]

And who nearly won first event? Evans?

Suninen ?

[mknight]

Evans should already be under contract... Suninen has not "nearly won" anything.

Tanak is the only free name that I can see. Maybe he means Østberg but I see that as extremely unlikely.

Note he says Breen, Lefevbre and Meeke "will be part of the team". Might be unintended but it is in line with saying that not all will drive all events.

[KKS]

Note he says Breen, Lefevbre and Meeke "will be part of the team". Might be unintended but it is in line with saying that not all will drive all events.
If you search a driver to your 3 car team with 3 drivers already signed - it's always means that not 3 will drive all events.

[jparker]

... Suninen has not "nearly won" anything.

Why not?

[AnttiL]

Matton already said before that Meeke will drive a full season with Breen and Lefebvre doing a partial season, as if telling everyone that they could use someone. The sentence "Andreas is with us" is interesting because he's supposed to be a free agent after this rally.

[mknight]

Why not?

Best position in Finland was 2nd +42s behind, a bit optimistic to call that nearly winning. If anything "nearly won" would mean Evans in Argentina, but we were told he has contract at M-Sport.

[AnttiL]

Maybe Paddon should go drive for Citroen since he likes to oversteer

[Rally Power]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHbyIX_XcAAwcGy.jpg

[KKS]

Maybe Paddon should go drive for Citroen since he likes to oversteer
and crash sometimes... Ideal candidate! :D

[EstWRC]

this site is saying that both Ogier and Loeb may be in the team with Loeb doing 4 rounds, they say it is very likely that Ogier will join Citroen

https://translate.google.ee/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=et&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fas.com%2Fmotor%2F2017%2F08%2F17%2F mas_motor%2F1502981404_370801.html&edit-text=

[mknight]

this site is saying that both Ogier and Loeb may be in the team with Loeb doing 4 rounds, they say it is very likely that Ogier will join Citroen

https://translate.google.ee/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=et&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fas.com%2Fmotor%2F2017%2F08%2F17%2F mas_motor%2F1502981404_370801.html&edit-text=

That would be quite a letdown for me. Sure Citroen does not look like the best car atm, but if they keep pouring money they will get better (with good driver feedback).

For M-Sport it would be a disaster, imagine if Tanak leaves as well and at worst case M-Sport goes Evans, Camilli, Suninen.

[mknight]

About Suninen:

http://www.fia.com/news/wrc-tneuville-confidence-obviously-high

Q:
Are any teams talking to you about next year?
TS:
I haven’t heard anything.

(sure he can be lying...)

[Rally Power]

That would be quite a letdown for me. Sure Citroen does not look like the best car atm, but if they keep pouring money they will get better (with good driver feedback).

Honestly, I see it as fantastic news. Ogier is a game changer; with him it’d be possible to see Citroen winning again in all surfaces and that would be great for the series. Besides, he misses a greater support from French fans (some still doesn’t forgive his move to VW) and certainly he would conquer them all by winning world titles with (and for) Citroen.

Btw, besides AS (usually a credible source) L’Equipe is also mentioning Ogier talks with Citroen.


For M-Sport it would be a disaster, imagine if Tanak leaves as well and at worst case M-Sport goes Evans, Camilli, Suninen.

Why not Mikkelsen in MSport?

[er88]

Ogier, Meeke and Loeb/Breen is some team. Lefebrve will be lucky if he can share a 4th car with Khalid.

Citroen have never really rated Andreas as highly as some people do, for whatever reason. If Matton was really keen he would've signed him up when he was released by VW. Same with Tommi. Mikkelsen will be hoping that Tanak goes to Toyota and that leaves a seat at Msport, alongside Suninen and Evans.

Everything will start falling into place once Ogier makes his final decision.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[racerx1979]

Tanak will most certainly be at Toyota which changes the game a bit.

[Sulland]

Looks from the jumps that the C3 has a balance issue. Could be physical or could be aero related.
what does it look like for the specialists in here?

[racerx1979]

To me a few jumps at low speeds tells us nothing about a cars aero especially based on a picture. The angle can be manipulated by throttle or brake input prior to entry of the jump, during the jump etc. It could be an issue that the C3 has problems, but it could also be the drivers approach is different along with setup (spring rates, damper settings etc) which also plays an important role.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that there is too may things going on and it is not easy to give an answer to such a question... ;)

[macebig]

Well, the front lift issues were there since Sweden. And after getting hands on the road car for a few days, it seems very plausible that the front lift is there by default. I don't know what they can do to fix it.more front aero seemed the most logical solution, but from what we know they are trying that to no avail. It may need a redesign of the front in both the road car and the rally one.

[OHL]

Well, the front lift issues were there since Sweden. And after getting hands on the road car for a few days, it seems very plausible that the front lift is there by default.

The design of the road car would have no bearing on what happens with the attitude of the rally car while jumping. They are completely different in every way other than sharing a resemblance to each other.

The issue with the car flying nose up in some photos is down to several factors that are nearly impossible to pinpoint just from a photo. The car does not always fly nose high and nearly all of the other cars have been seen flying nose high at times as well. There are so many factors at play here.

[macebig]

Chassis characteristics are very similar since the chassis is pretty much the same.

[AnttiL]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DH0eHQGWAAArIgS.jpg:large

https://twitter.com/Yves_Matton/status/899908637656829952

[Eli]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/131363/meeke-not-yet-confirmed-for-rally-catalunya

[macebig]

Seriously now, Wales is probably the end of the road for Meeke. If he does well there, he may continue in 2018.If not, I feel he is done.

[mknight]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/131363/meeke-not-yet-confirmed-for-rally-catalunya

Matton is actually defending both Meeke's SS crash (by saying the stage was bad) and also subsequent slow speed on Friday.

This part was interesting:



Citroen benched the Northern Irishman for Rally Poland at the end of June and he has subsequently struggled to replicate the form that helped him win Rally Mexico and dominate in Corsica earlier in the season.


This is the only place it is mentioned in the whole article why his place for Catalunya might be in danger. Not a single word about what happened before and caused the first benching. Instead unless you followed the season closely you get the idea that the benching alone caused him to loose form afterwards.

Not hard to see why people talk about british jurno bias.

[seb_sh]

Not hard to see why people talk about british jurno bias.

The articles from motorsport news and autosport are written by David Evans who for me is infamous for having a very let's say interesting mix of facts and opinions and speculation in his articles, not to mention always drops one or two controversial details in there or puts some semi clickbaity title. I'm sure he knows better but he needs those views, David Evans gotta eat.

[Francis44]

Some noise on Twitter that Carlos Tavares himself (CEO PSA group) will choose the team manager and drivers for 2018 soon. Matton might be out.

[seb_sh]

Some noise on Twitter that Carlos Tavares himself (CEO PSA group) will choose the team manager and drivers for 2018 soon. Matton might be out.

The best decision is probably to change Matton, while the blame for the situation is not just down to him, the list of mistakes he seems to have made is quite long:
- relying too much on just Meeke for C3 development
- not jumping to get one of the VW drivers
- starting with Lefebvre as a full season driver
- mixed signals to the press; maybe also conflicting orders to the drivers
- seemingly chaotic handling of the lineup mid season

The team needs a shakeup to change the way of handling things, a good place to start is with Matton.

[mknight]

The best decision is probably to change Matton, while the blame for the situation is not just down to him, the list of mistakes he seems to have made is quite long:
- relying too much on just Meeke for C3 development
- not jumping to get one of the VW drivers
- starting with Lefebvre as a full season driver
- mixed signals to the press; maybe also conflicting orders to the drivers
- seemingly chaotic handling of the lineup mid season

The team needs a shakeup to change the way of handling things, a good place to start is with Matton.

Highlighted the main issues for me

- when the only experienced driver developing the car is Meeke they should at least listen to him (which Meeke claims they didn't), if they don't believe him then get someone else experienced for an opinion. Note that even Hyundai did 1 day test with Mikkelsen for feedback on the car.

- so much the second point, to quote Breen I sound like a broken record but Mattons "arrogant" quote where he said he was not interested in Latvala or Mikkelsen in December really has to go down in history.

- Lefevbre actually did ok last year showing signs of speed, rather similar to this year's impression of Suninen tbh. Prbly the crash in Germany also had negative effect. So letting Lefebvre drive wasn't so bad, letting him drive instead of hiring one of the VW guys was. Also they had so many rallies including one in Belgium? to pick one of them, yet they kept going with 2 young drivers. Could have put Lefevbre in R5 for a season, but problem is they don't have an R5 that can compete with Fabia or Fiesta.

- yep the pre-event press for Finland was most telling. In one sentence he says Meeke should bring back info to engineers (finish) and in next he says that everything below podium was bad, similar in other situations. For example publicly announcing after Corsica that Meeke should just go for rally wins did imo contribute to his crashing spree.

- partly agree, when he finally started to handle he could have outlined some plan for 3-4 rallies ahead for all drivers. That said we have no idea about contracts and money situation.

[Simmi]

I do think Matton could be bang in trouble - for a number of the reasons listed above.

If VW had pulled out of the sport, or at least hinted it, a couple of weeks earlier then Citroen probably aren't in this situation. As it was Matton ended up signing two inexperienced drivers to medium-term contracts. I don't think Citroen have the budget of (Hyundai/Toyota) so it's not a great idea for them to be paying Latvala for example, and then trying to either pay out a contract of Lefebvre/Breen, or find them other drives. Hence why he said only Ogier (a proven champion) was potentially worth that trouble.

[dimviii]

AnttiL‏*@AnttiL_WRC
If #WRC rallies lasted only for the first non SSS stage, Kris Meeke would still lead despite not scoring in Germany https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSe-91o_6rk-e2PxqnUbsZ7VyzJviSyhav-OgWCcI7Xd6BjNoZGArAXIsnkFr9QkIxVWNDnOZrhGcEo/pubhtml*…

[steve.mandzij]

AnttiL‏*@AnttiL_WRC
If #WRC rallies lasted only for the first non SSS stage, Kris Meeke would still lead despite not scoring in Germany https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSe-91o_6rk-e2PxqnUbsZ7VyzJviSyhav-OgWCcI7Xd6BjNoZGArAXIsnkFr9QkIxVWNDnOZrhGcEo/pubhtml*…That's a pretty pointless metric.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[AnttiL]

That's a pretty pointless metric.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Why?

[stefanvv]

AnttiL‏*@AnttiL_WRC
If #WRC rallies lasted only for the first non SSS stage, Kris Meeke would still lead despite not scoring in Germany https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSe-91o_6rk-e2PxqnUbsZ7VyzJviSyhav-OgWCcI7Xd6BjNoZGArAXIsnkFr9QkIxVWNDnOZrhGcEo/pubhtml*…

"Still" ?!?

[AnttiL]

Still, as in he was leading that statistic before Germany (made a second fastest stage time on SS2 in Finland) but was outside top 10 on SS2 in Germany, but still no one comes close to his score. At the same time, Esapekka Lappi has rarely been attacking right on the first stage, but has almost always scored power stage points. You can also see that Ogier has suffered a bit from being the first car on the road. Also notable that Tänak is the only one who's been in the top 10 for every first proper stage of the season.

Maximum Attack is the term attached to Markku Alen because of his ability to win time to his rivals on the very first stages of the rally because he was already on the pace right from the start, whereas others usually needed some stages to warm up.

[stefanvv]

Ah I see, I wasn't aware of such statistics, however this is somewhat pointless as the first "real" stage is more like a warm-up (see Neuville for example - he had some really bad 1st days this year, but drives much faster the remaining) & and drivers to check their "clocks" to the competition. But anyway about Meeke - yes he is the most overdriving among the whole bunch, his luck there works for 1-2-3-several stages, but no more. Likeable driver for spectating, but mostly brings disappointments to his fans. When he is driving at "comfortable" pace this year, he is not faster than Breen.

[EstWRC]

Citroen taking more risks on C3 WRC development for 2018 Monte


Citroen has started gambling on the development of its C3 WRC to ensure it can fight to win the 2018 World Rally Championship opener in Monte Carlo next January.

The French manufacturer withdrew its works entry for the 2016 WRC, focusing on a year-long development programme with the C3 built to the new-for-2017 rules.

Citroen has failed to achieve the success it hoped for, with Kris Meeke's Rally Mexico win the only triumph in a tricky season.

That has forced Citroen to rethink on several areas, notably the suspension and driveability, and team principal Yves Matton told Autosport it was now starting to ramp its work up ahead of 2018.

"We already took some risks with the development," Matton said.

"I told you already that since Sweden we have been working harder and harder and really looking already towards next season - this is where the focus is for the team now.

"But we know we have to take more risks and put more and more new parts on the car with less time for validation.

"This isn't the way things are done and it's the first time that we have really done this, but it's the only way we can work towards the timetable for the start [of next season]."

Swedish suspension firm Ohlins is working more closely with Citroen and the eight-time manufacturer champion has replaced technical director Laurent Fregosi, the man who designed the C3 WRC, with Christophe Besse, who had been involved with Citroen's early success in rallying.

Fregosi remains at Citroen, but returns "to a more technically focused role."

Citroen has been rotating drivers this season, benching the under-fire Meeke and drafting in ex-Volkswagen driver Andreas Mikkelsen for certain rallies.

Only Stephane Lefebvre has been confirmed for next month's Rally Spain, but Citroen must reveal its plans by next Tuesday (September 5), when entries for the Salou-based event close.




https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/131514/citroen-taking-more-risks-on-c3-for-2018

[racerx1979]

Well it will be Lefebvre, Meeke and Breen or Mikkelsen in Meekes place. I don't see them putting Breen aside, but it's Citroen so ya never know. I guess we will know in a weeks time.

Confusing as always...

[KKS]

Some say that Matton will not be team principal at 2018. So or Matton didn't take this crucial decision for 2018 or he ruin another season for Citroen already.

[electroliquid]

Citroen could enter 4 cars, so they could gather more info and "real conditions" testing using Lefebvre, Meeke, Breen and Mikkelsen. They testing more than year and still no result. Loeb continue testing?

[rage82]

Well it will be Lefebvre, Meeke and Breen or Mikkelsen in Meekes place. I don't see them putting Breen aside, but it's Citroen so ya never know. I guess we will know in a weeks time.

Confusing as always...

The closing date for Spain entries is 5-th September

[Simmi]

I guess once they've put in the entries Citroen might as well come out with the news themselves. Better that and get out in front of the story rather than have it leak out - especially if they've made a big call like benching Meeke.

[racerx1979]

It would make sense to make the announcement prior to the posting of entries.

[AnttiL]

The last day to send entries is 5th September, but it will take another week for FIA to approve it and thus the rally to publish the entry list. So it could be 2 weeks of waiting before we know.

[Hartusvuori]

The last day to send entries is 5th September, but it will take another week for FIA to approve it and thus the rally to publish the entry list. So it could be 2 weeks of waiting before we know.

Rally Guide 2 will be published on the 7th. My guess is that the first FIA approved list is published on the same day. Similar happened with at least Rally Finland. I have not followed other events that closely.

[AnttiL]

Rally Guide 2 will be published on the 7th. My guess is that the first FIA approved list is published on the same day. Similar happened with at least Rally Finland. I have not followed other events that closely.

http://www.rallyracc.com/2017/en/inscritos.html


Entry list will be published after FIA's approval (approx. between 12th to 14th September 2017).

[Andre Oliveira]

Loeb will test in Spain in September.

[racerx1979]

Wow, Citroen working hard to sort things out. Maybe Loeb drives before the end of 2017 :)

[EstWRC]

so Loeb, Breen and Lefebvre in spain ? :p :p :p

[Hartusvuori]

Wow, Citroen working hard to sort things out. Maybe Loeb drives before the end of 2017 :)

Loeb to Catalunya, anyone?

[N.O.T]

The arab team of nobodies tires to save the year with publicity stunts... pffffft better for them to withdraw from the championship.... they are a joke.

[Eli]

https://twitter.com/citroenracing?lang=en
has anyone seen their latest video clip here?

[noel157]

https://twitter.com/citroenracing?lang=en
has anyone seen their latest video clip here?

Saw that. In house engine building (if they don't already do that) or something even more less interesting to take the heat off the team...?

[Eli]

Saw that. In house engine building (if they don't already do that) or something even more less interesting to take the heat off the team...?No clue what so ever unfortunately...

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[Andre Oliveira]

C3 R5 engine

[GigiGalliNo1]

Also, Martin Holmes notes for Australian RallySport Magazine that Citroen will enter their favorite middle eastern driver in a 4th C3 WRC at Rally Australia which makes no sense!

If they don't have Mikkelsen in their car who WON in 2016 they really have no hope!

[N.O.T]

Also, Martin Holmes notes for Australian RallySport Magazine that Citroen will enter their favorite middle eastern driver in a 4th C3 WRC at Rally Australia which makes no sense!

If they don't have Mikkelsen in their car who WON in 2016 they really have no hope!

i think its logical to favor their countrymen over mikkelsen

[Andre Oliveira]

"their favorite middle eastern driver" pay the bill

[jparker]

"their favorite middle eastern driver" pay the bill
Money for nothing and chicks for free?

[AnttiL]

Also, Martin Holmes notes for Australian RallySport Magazine that Citroen will enter their favorite middle eastern driver in a 4th C3 WRC at Rally Australia which makes no sense!

If they don't have Mikkelsen in their car who WON in 2016 they really have no hope!

http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/wrc/11752-three-car-teams-for-the-wrc-s-big-guns-at-rally-australia

You mean this? It's just assumptions. I don't think Citroen would have four cars in Australia as it's expensive anyway to go there, but I guess Australia would be a more likely event for Al-Qassimi to drive than Wales or Spain.

[BigWorm]

Also, Martin Holmes notes for Australian RallySport Magazine that Citroen will enter their favorite middle eastern driver in a 4th C3 WRC at Rally Australia which makes no sense!

If they don't have Mikkelsen in their car who WON in 2016 they really have no hope!

Khalid funds the team with the Abu Dhabi backing, therefore he drives.

[Simmi]

There was a list doing the rounds way back at the start of the year which had all the planned rallies for Citroen and Khalid. So I believe Australia has been on his programme for a while.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Khalid funds the team with the Abu Dhabi backing, therefore he drives.

More chance of winning the event for the team than coming in 15th position...

[EstWRC]

Another major change in personnel at Citroen Racing


http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/wrc/11768-another-major-change-in-personnel-at-citroen-racing

[Nelly]

Mickelsen says on instagram that he has an intensive 4 week French language course starting today. Looks like he's signed up

[BigWorm]

More chance of winning the event for the team than coming in 15th position...

I think you're missing the point. Without Khalid they'd be without funding. Since the team is named after his backing, it's pretty obvious it's a lot of money he brings in to the team. So without the cash, Citroën maybe wouldn't be as good as it is now, you know?

[KiwiWRCfan]

Without Khalid's friendship and support Kris Meeke might not have got the Citroen test drives in Finland and Australia 2013. In 2013/2014 I seem to recall media were suggesting Khalid had some influence on Citroen driver selections. I do not recall anything in last 2 years suggesting Khalid still had some influence on driver selections.
Can anyone with a better memory than me clarify

[noel157]

Mickelsen says on instagram that he has an intensive 4 week French language course starting today. Looks like he's signed up

Or wants to know how to order a beer in his local pub......

[rallyfiend]

Or has a 4-week gap in his schedule until his next paid (read that anyway you want...!) employment gig?

[tomhlord]

Mickelsen says on instagram that he has an intensive 4 week French language course starting today. Looks like he's signed up

Goodbye Meeke, hello Mikkelsen. That's what I believe anyway.

[WUff1]

Goodbye Meeke, hello Mikkelsen. That's what I believe anyway.

Think so, too.

[Eli]

We'll all see tomorrow when the entry list in published for Spain.

[rallyfiend]

We'll all see tomorrow when the entry list in published for Spain.

Entries close tomorrow, not the entry list.

I suspect Citroen will have to put out a news release to declare what they've done.

[Eli]

Entries close tomorrow, not the entry list.

I suspect Citroen will have to put out a news release to declare what they've done.

My bad, but as you said they'll probably put out a news release and uncover the C3 R5.

[nafpaktos]

https://www.facebook.com/citroenracing/posts/10154921019917057

[Simmi]

Becsy reckons something is getting announced this week - https://twitter.com/Becsywecsy/status/904719123644633088

[BigWorm]

Wonder who tests the R5, maybe Bergkvist?

[nafpaktos]

Hope this time will find an appropriate driver for the evolution of the r5.it will be a really big shame if the situation will be repeated after the c3 wrc fiasco.Loeb could be the best choice.

[GigiGalliNo1]

I have no problem with the man who brought funds to Citroen from Abu Dhabi.

My point is it's a waste of seat if he drives and not Mikkelsen

Just like giving Eric Camili a seat instead of someone who will perform for the team a few years ago!

[nafpaktos]

My point is it's a waste of seat if he drives and not Mikkelsen


if you think deeper he doesn't take anyones seat,it's the same situation as Matthew Wilson.

[BigWorm]

My point is it's a waste of seat if he drives and not Mikkelsen

I don't think it is. It must be a term that if Abu Dhabi sponsors Citroën, Khalid should drive a pair of events. Same thing when Abu Dhabi backed Ford, he drove a lot of rallies. It's obvious that he won't bring any results to the team, but he brings the team funds which is why Citroën let's him drive a few events.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Meeke is still under contract til the end of 2018.

Mikkelsen-Meeke-Breen is a decent line-up for Citroen.

[AnttiL]

I don't think it is. It must be a term that if Abu Dhabi sponsors Citroën, Khalid should drive a pair of events. Same thing when Abu Dhabi backed Ford, he drove a lot of rallies. It's obvious that he won't bring any results to the team, but he brings the team funds which is why Citroën let's him drive a few events.

Yeah I think him driving and being seen on the TV brings more interest for Abu Dhabi to keep sponsoring rallying.

[Simmi]

Meeke is still under contract til the end of 2018.

Mikkelsen-Meeke-Breen is a decent line-up for Citroen.

So is Lefebvre who you've omitted. If Citroen don't think it's working I'm sure they can pay any of the existing guys out of the final year of their contracts.

[Simmi]

Wonder who tests the R5, maybe Bergkvist?

"Citroen WRC drivers Craig Breen and Stephane Lefebvre plus current French Tarmac Championship leader and Citroen WRC2 competitor Yoann Bonato will complete the C3 R5's initial running on gravel, with asphalt testing to follow soon after."

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/131650/citroen-begins-testing-all-new-r5-for-wrc2erc

No Meeke. Very interesting....

[Munkvy]

"Citroen WRC drivers Craig Breen and Stephane Lefebvre plus current French Tarmac Championship leader and Citroen WRC2 competitor Yoann Bonato will complete the C3 R5's initial running on gravel, with asphalt testing to follow soon after."

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/131650/citroen-begins-testing-all-new-r5-for-wrc2erc

No Meeke. Very interesting....

You can take that two ways, one they don't want him involved (for any of the various theories earlier in this topic), or two he is too busy trying to fix the other really ugly Citroen.

As for the C3 R5, other than being another ugly Citroen, is it just me or is the opening in the front bumper quite small?

[Eli]

You can take that two ways, one they don't want him involved (for any of the various theories earlier in this topic), or two he is too busy trying to fix the other really ugly Citroen.

As for the C3 R5, other than being another ugly Citroen, is it just me or is the opening in the front bumper quite small?Not just you!! I've noticed that too!!

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[er88]

This C3 R5 gives them an excuse to demote Lefebrve for most of the rallies next year. They'll need someone to showcase the car on the world stage after the other poor R5s PSA developed, and the current C3 appearing a dud.

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[WUff1]

This C3 R5 gives them an excuse to demote Lefebrve for most of the rallies next year. They'll need someone to showcase the car on the world stage after the other poor R5s PSA developed, and the current C3 appearing a dud.

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Agree, but I´m not so sure about this regarding decisions of Matton in the past.

[noel157]

Something going on with the front vent...........cooling was a big issue on the 208 :

http://i.imgur.com/rLCxeUC.jpg

[noel157]

This C3 R5 gives them an excuse to demote Lefebrve for most of the rallies next year. They'll need someone to showcase the car on the world stage after the other poor R5s PSA developed, and the current C3 appearing a dud.

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Would agree.