Helmut Marko

[TheFamousEccles]

Alonso responds to Marko's jibes | News | Motorsport.com (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alonso-responds-to-marko-s-jibes/)

Cookies must be enabled | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/motor-sport/red-bull-team-advisor-helmut-marko-questions-mark-webbers-ability-to-handle-pressure/story-fnebo26y-1226550028735)

Is this real? Is this guy for real?

It's even reported on cra@h.net - which made me doubt it's worth immediately.

Anyway, he would be a great guy to have on your Team, if you were SV.

[rjbetty]

I so hope Sebby doesn't get his own way next year and someone, even Alonso, beats him to the title.

Oh if Webber could have won it, the look on Dr Marko's and Horner's faces would have been priceless.

[zako85]

Here is another of Helmut Marko's interviews from recent past:

Webber will retire in 2012: Marko | Fox Sports (http://www.foxsports.com.au/motor-sports/formula-one/dr-helmut-marko-lets-slip-that-mark-webber-is-likely-to-retire-in-2012-during-a-television-interview/story-e6frf3zl-1226105738997)


Anyways.. I really like Mark Webber as a "number 2". He is one of the few number 2 drivers who publicly refused to acknowledge this status, often on the racetrack. He is too slow to make a real threat to Vettel, but sometimes it's amusing to see him refuse to yield to Vettel on the track when they do meet. I already forgot, but was it in Abu Dhabi or Brazil, where the team swiftly called him into pits to change tires as soon as Vettel caught up with him. This was too much of a coincidence IMO. Clearly, the race engineer was too nervous that Mark would not yield to Vettel easily. This adds a bit of color to team dynamics, as opposed to what you see at Ferrari.

[The Black Knight]

Alonso responds to Marko's jibes | News | Motorsport.com (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alonso-responds-to-marko-s-jibes/)

Cookies must be enabled | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/motor-sport/red-bull-team-advisor-helmut-marko-questions-mark-webbers-ability-to-handle-pressure/story-fnebo26y-1226550028735)

Is this real? Is this guy for real?

It's even reported on cra@h.net - which made me doubt it's worth immediately.

Anyway, he would be a great guy to have on your Team, if you were SV.

Mind games. He is trying to psychologically out maneuvre the opposition by making Vettel out to be a guy he is not. It has long been clear that Vettel is both Helmut Marko and Christian Horner's pet, especially since the Red Bull takes your wings incident of the British GP 2010. You can read the entire transcript of that interview here:

The Doctor is in session - Helmut Marko interview | Red Bull | F1 features | ESPN F1 (http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsport/story/98376.html)

The funniest comment for me was this:


That brings us back to his method of preparation, the way he shuts himself off from the rest of the world, so that he can still call on reserves that other drivers might not have: Fernando Alonso, for example, who is busy with politics and funny comments. Vettel ignores it all, he doesn't read the newspapers, or the internet. And that's the point, you see, we concentrate on our job: to make the fastest car and the best team possible. "

Did he see Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso after the US GP before they went onto the podium? Vettel had a jibe at Hamilton saying he was lucky with the back marker which allowed him to overtake, sort of as a retaliation to Hamilton's comments about Vettel's clearly lucky Abu Dhabi drive. Hamilton then responded "Not really, we all need some luck, you had yours last time out". Meanwhile, Alonso just sat back and let them at it. Funny comments eh? And don't get me started on Vettel's politics, he was well able to call certain drivers an idiot after Malaysia for something which was his own fault and he's well able to use Horner for his own cover. I have honestly found Alonso to be one of the least political drivers of the season and he stayed pretty much out of all mind games. Politics come part and parcel with being a Ferrari driver but I felt he conducted himself admirably this season. I couldn't say the same about Vettel.

Basically everything he said in that interview is bull****, perhaps apart from the part about Webber not being able to sustain a championship challenge once the heat is on. It does appear to be that way.

Anyway, I don't take much notice of what Helmut Marko says as he is one of the most clearly biased people on the gird. I'd even take what Christian Horner says more seriously than HM and that is saying something.

[Big Ben]

In conclusion you can be a doctor and a moron at the same time.

[BDunnell]

Basically everything he said in that interview is bull****, perhaps apart from the part about Webber not being able to sustain a championship challenge once the heat is on. It does appear to be that way.

Yes, sadly, there is probably much truth in that bit. Even then, is it something that should be said in public, even though a lot of people know it to be the case?

As you say, much of the rest of it does seem nonsensical. Vettel unpolitical? Is this why he goes on holidays with Ecclestone?

[wedge]

Confirmatiom that Markko does not and never has liked Webbo's individualism.

He should put up and shut up, take over from Horner or resign.

[wedge]

I have honestly found Alonso to be one of the least political drivers of the season and he stayed pretty much out of all mind games. Politics come part and parcel with being a Ferrari driver but I felt he conducted himself admirably this season. I couldn't say the same about Vettel.


If Alonso wasn't double WDC would he be an F1 driver by now let alone Ferrari?

[zako85]

If Alonso wasn't double WDC would he be an F1 driver by now let alone Ferrari?

This doesn't seem like an answerable question. It depends. One can be rated highly without having won a single title. Look at the former Ferrari drivers Alesi and Gilles Villeneuve, as well as Alonso. Alonso had exceptionally good seasons in 2007, 2010, and 2012, even though he did not win a title those years. Everyone observing closely those seasons knows he did pretty much everything that was required from him.

[driveace]

Dont underestimate Alonso,in my eyes he is one of the top 4 drivers out there.He dragged a under performing Ferrari to some good results this year,that at best was reliable.How many times has Red Bull been caught out with dodgy components on their car this last year ? Vettel has clearly had the best car and a reliable car too .Mc Laren probably had the fastest car,but a car where the pit crew was second rate,and reliability has been a large problem.Button in my eyes is fine if he is first out of the first corner,but in some races,he appears to sulk and go backwards!Hope that this year Kimi gets it together,as he gets his head down ,and gets on with it !

[The Black Knight]

If Alonso wasn't double WDC would he be an F1 driver by now let alone Ferrari?

If he wasn't a double world champion then he wouldn't be the driver he is. Same goes for any WDC out there ;)

[wedge]

Did I need to be so obvious as to refer to his time at McLaren? setting up a rogue intra-team based on stolen documents, who then demanded #1 status by any means via blackmailling his own employer?

Would he still be an F1 driver by now if wasn't double WDC cf. Nelson Piquet Jr/2008 Singapore GP crash scandal and now racing in low tier NASCAR.

[TheFamousEccles]

Basically everything he said in that interview is bull****, perhaps apart from the part about Webber not being able to sustain a championship challenge once the heat is on. It does appear to be that way. - while a fair call, I still feel it to be a harsh one as he has the skills and is as fast as any driver out there - but for a change in fortune and some reliable parts, he was in with a strong chance 2010. 2012 was better than 2011 and maybe karma might come and cup SV's nuts for a while and 2013 might be really interesting...


Yes, sadly, there is probably much truth in that bit. Even then, is it something that should be said in public, even though a lot of people know it to be the case? - good grief, he's not dying of some horrid disease. Marko is a rude turd, that's what a lot of people know to be the case. No one is speaking of Alonso in quite so hushed terms - it's a rare driver indeed who could pull another championship out of the hat, 6 years since his last one. Not impossible, but rare.

[Koz]

If Alonso wasn't double WDC would he be an F1 driver by now let alone Ferrari?

Yet Kimi got how much for going to Ferrari while never having won a championship?


Did I need to be so obvious as to refer to his time at McLaren? setting up a rogue intra-team based on stolen documents, who then demanded #1 status by any means via blackmailling his own employer?
Thats what happens when your father is Flavio Briatore...


Would he still be an F1 driver by now if wasn't double WDC cf. Nelson Piquet Jr/2008 Singapore GP crash scandal and now racing in low tier NASCAR.
Jr lost his drive because he was a terrible driver who did not belong in F1 in the first place.
No one would have hired him regardless of crashgate. Which is why he spilled the beans...

[Koz]

Marko is bored at the moment, which is why he has to come up with this crap.
The crap he is saying about Webber, the reprimand etc. are just ruining the image of Red Bull more than anything else.

Why is Mateschitz putting up with this crap? Because Marko is Austrian?
Is Marko a Luca/Flavio/Max wannabe?

[wedge]

- while a fair call, I still feel it to be a harsh one as he has the skills and is as fast as any driver out there - but for a change in fortune and some reliable parts, he was in with a strong chance 2010. 2012 was better than 2011 and maybe karma might come and cup SV's nuts for a while and 2013 might be really interesting...

RBR developed their car to suit Seb. No, let me re-phrase that: Webber isn't comfortable with a car that's twitchy at corner entry that has been part and parcel of EBD trickery of recent years.


Yet Kimi got how much for going to Ferrari while never having won a championship?


Not screwing your team and being a top driver helps.

[IceWizard]

Mind games. He is trying to psychologically out maneuvre the opposition by making Vettel out to be a guy he is not. . Very poor mind games IMO. It seems unlikely his comments are going to affect Ferrari or Alonso and at any rate I'd have thought that what Marko said is actually more true of Vettel. All he has done is made himself look stupid.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I have honestly found Alonso to be one of the least political drivers of the season and he stayed pretty much out of all mind games. Politics come part and parcel with being a Ferrari driver but I felt he conducted himself admirably this season. I couldn't say the same about Vettel.


Then you must have seen a completely different season than the rest of us. There is no other mind-game-playing driver even in Alonso's class. He's the most contemptable bitch on the grid. Make no mistake, he's up there with the best drivers in history, when it comes to his driving and together with Lewis (in his 2012 incarnation) probably the best on the grid at this time, but he's also the master of dirty tricks, low-blows and trash talk.
What with his repeated insinuation that not Vettel wins the championships, but Adrian Newey. While undoubtedly Vettel hat the better car in the second half of the season, Mark pretty much proved that a newey car doesn not result in an instant win. Don't even get me started on Alonso's junk-tweets in the aftermath of the Brazil GP (yellow-flag-gate) or declaring himself one of the greatest during Ferrari's season-end bash.
Calling Alonso the least political driver is an utter joke. Nobody plays more mind-games than him.

Well, Marko... That guy's so ridiculous, I don't even listen to his crap.

[jens]

Helmut Marko's way of speaking may not be particularly "light", but he is hardly an idiot, considering his role and influence in RBR and which kind of life challenges he has himself met in the past (like the accident in 1972, which blinded his eye). So he is used to being mentally tough to accomplish something in life. Pampering someone isn't his way of management.

I see, where he is coming from with his comments. Another matter is if they can be expressed so bluntly or some alternative aspects have to be considered as well when evaluating the situations. Depends on perspective. But it really would be useful if people were open-minded and tried to discuss about things and understand people. Because calling someone an "idiot" is hardly an insight. Same with Tilke, Ecclestone, etc influencial people in F1, who people are fond of calling names.

For example regarding Mark Webber I personally tend more towards the explanation of his ability to simply adapt to different cars/setups, which make his form fluctuate. Rather than just pressure. Then again Helmut himself has been a sportsman, while I haven't, so he must have some knowledge about the matter.

[BDunnell]

Helmut Marko's way of speaking may not be particularly "light", but he is hardly an idiot, considering his role and influence in RBR and which kind of life challenges he has himself met in the past (like the accident in 1972, which blinded his eye). So he is used to being mentally tough to accomplish something in life. Pampering someone isn't his way of management.

And it must be said that, of almost everyone on the grid, Webber is probably just about the least in need (except maybe for Raikkonen) of pampering.



I see, where he is coming from with his comments. Another matter is if they can be expressed so bluntly or some alternative aspects have to be considered as well when evaluating the situations. Depends on perspective. But it really would be useful if people were open-minded and tried to discuss about things and understand people. Because calling someone an "idiot" is hardly an insight. Same with Tilke, Ecclestone, etc influencial people in F1, who people are fond of calling names.

Well, we know so little about Tilke that calling him an idiot is patently ridiculous. Ecclestone is more complex — I genuinely believe there are psychological 'issues' at play somewhere in his personality.



For example regarding Mark Webber I personally tend more towards the explanation of his ability to simply adapt to different cars/setups, which make his form fluctuate. Rather than just pressure. Then again Helmut himself has been a sportsman, while I haven't, so he must have some knowledge about the matter.

I wonder how he would have responded in his driving career to having disparaging comments made in the media about his abilities by his team bosses?

[jens]

And it must be said that, of almost everyone on the grid, Webber is probably just about the least in need (except maybe for Raikkonen) of pampering.

Well, there is a theory that Marko's words would motivate rather than distract Webber. So based on that we can clearly see, where Marko is coming from. :) Those guys in RBR know each other personally and they know, how to influence each other. Who are we to comment on that?


Well, we know so little about Tilke that calling him an idiot is patently ridiculous. Ecclestone is more complex — I genuinely believe there are psychological 'issues' at play somewhere in his personality.

Ecclestone has achieved so much in his life and keeps doing it that I get the feeling any kind of comments in the media is him just playing it knowingly smart. Yes, even the stupid comments are acting. Because he knows, what it takes to get media attention. And this is all, what F1 needs. Surely he is very money-orientated in his decisions, but I think he is very clever in his dealings and I don't think any alleged "issues" are affecting him in his business.


I wonder how he would have responded in his driving career to having disparaging comments made in the media about his abilities by his team bosses?

Well, I haven't got a clue about how Marko's own racing career felt back in the day over 40 years ago. And which kind of discussions or comments did he have with his team bosses at the time. And how it has influenced him.

[BDunnell]

Well, there is a theory that Marko's words would motivate rather than distract Webber. So based on that we can clearly see, where Marko is coming from. :) Those guys in RBR know each other personally and they know, how to influence each other. Who are we to comment on that?

Well, opinions can be offered, surely? After all, you're commenting on it, just in a different way (one with which I agree, incidentally.)



Ecclestone has achieved so much in his life and keeps doing it that I get the feeling any kind of comments in the media is him just playing it knowingly smart. Yes, even the stupid comments are acting. Because he knows, what it takes to get media attention. And this is all, what F1 needs. Surely he is very money-orientated in his decisions, but I think he is very clever in his dealings and I don't think any alleged "issues" are affecting him in his business.

I was thinking especially about comments made by Derek Warwick, who of course worked for him at Brabham. He said Ecclestone was so enraged by seeing the cord twisted on a telephone on the wall in the factory that he ripped it out of the wall and threw it on the floor. Just one example, but very indicative, I feel — not the actions of someone of, shall we say, stable mind. Has his personality affected him in business? Well, it may still do.

[jens]

Well, opinions can be offered, surely? After all, you're commenting on it, just in a different way (one with which I agree, incidentally.)



I was thinking especially about comments made by Derek Warwick, who of course worked for him at Brabham. He said Ecclestone was so enraged by seeing the cord twisted on a telephone on the wall in the factory that he ripped it out of the wall and threw it on the floor. Just one example, but very indicative, I feel — not the actions of someone of, shall we say, stable mind. Has his personality affected him in business? Well, it may still do.

Yes, we can offer opinions. :) Perhaps expressed myself a bit badly. There is no problem with our opinions as long as we understand the limitations of them - and how close to reality/insight we can really get.

Interesting comments from Warwick. Don't really know, but whatever it is, it doesn't seem to affect Bernie's sense of business in a negative way.

[wedge]

Marko has analytical and far too honest of his assessment of Webber to the point of bias and clearly dislikes Webbers attitude towards team orders and its implementation.

A team generally defends their drivers publicly on the record. Marko clearly does not agree with Webber's contract extension and has had enough.

[wedge]

I was thinking especially about comments made by Derek Warwick, who of course worked for him at Brabham. He said Ecclestone was so enraged by seeing the cord twisted on a telephone on the wall in the factory that he ripped it out of the wall and threw it on the floor. Just one example, but very indicative, I feel — not the actions of someone of, shall we say, stable mind. Has his personality affected him in business? Well, it may still do.

Sir Stirling Moss is said to be difficult to dealbwith in private.

He once received a wrongly sent fax and replied with an abusive tirade over the phone.

And then there was Tom Walkinshaw who could be psychotic if you got the wrong side of him.

[TheFamousEccles]

Given RBR's propensity to favour SV (taking the wing from the front of his car is just one example), I personally understand MW's attitude to team orders. I agree with some things noted above, though. MW is more likely to be motivated by an arrogant, trash-talking has been than not, but it shouldn't necessarily come from your own team principal.

Or, maybe Marko understands this and is doing his best to motivate his driver? And maybe I should put the bong down...B-)

[dj_bytedisaster]

Given RBR's propensity to favour SV (taking the wing from the front of his car is just one example), I personally understand MW's attitude to team orders. I agree with some things noted above, though. MW is more likely to be motivated by an arrogant, trash-talking has been than not, but it shouldn't necessarily come from your own team principal.

Having a #1 and #2 driver isn't exactly new. Giving up your new front wing is nothing compared to, lets say, taking a deliberate penalty to promote your team mate up the grid. When Mark lost the WDC in 2010 despite being in the best position of all contenders, it became clear that he bought the tough abo for #2 status. Fact is, Mark is the lousiest team player in F1. If he's fed up with being #2 to Vettel, he's free to leave, but he doesn't. Stabbing the team in the back, like he did in Brazil with his dumb-arse moves on Vettel makes me wonder what in the name of all that's holy made RBR resign him.
I don't think very highly of Marko, but his criticism of Mark's antics is about the only thing I can agree with.

[Koz]

Not screwing your team and being a top driver helps.

And Alonso isn't a "top driver"?
There are few would would disagree that he is the best driver on the grid.

Jesus, just think what would have happened if Senna/Prost were in his position...

[Koz]

When Mark lost the WDC in 2010 despite being in the best position of all contenders, it became clear that he bought the tough abo for #2 status. Fact is, Mark is the lousiest team player in F1. If he's fed up with being #2 to Vettel, he's free to leave, but he doesn't.

Thank you!
When you know you're a #2, why stay?
Be a man and GTFO with some dignity.

Same goes for Massa.

[TheFamousEccles]

Be a man and GTFO with some dignity.

Same goes for Massa.


Hard words, from some guy on the internet. Do you live by this creed?

I never fail to be wryly amused by comments like this, but it does also indicate the level of public discourse is plummeting.

Say what you will, I guess. But if you are a driver capable of winning races and fancies their chances at a championship should things run their way, it is not unreasonable to expect support from the people who have employed you to attempt just that.

As for Brazil, a sense of entitlement doesn't guarantee safe passage, dj. I can't for the life of me imagine SV doing any different to MW should the circumstances have been reversed.

[CNR]

dietrich mateschitz | Tumblr (http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/dietrich%20mateschitz)
Mateschitz hopes Webber stays at Red Bull Mark Webber appears headed for a new contract with Red Bull, after receiving a clear vote of confidence from the energy drink company’s chief.
Following speculation the 35-year-old Australian could be headed to Ferrari in 2013, Red Bull team boss Christian Horner insisted Webber “is happy to be here, and we are happy to have him with us”.
And the Swiss newspaper Blick has revealed that team owner Dietrich Mateschitz, the billionaire mogul, is also happy with Webber.
“I hope that he keeps driving with us for a long time,” the 68-year-old is quoted as saying.

[dj_bytedisaster]

As for Brazil, a sense of entitlement doesn't guarantee safe passage, dj. I can't for the life of me imagine SV doing any different to MW should the circumstances have been reversed.

You're missing the point here a bit. In Brazil Mark had no chance whatsoever to win the championship, while his team mate had. Even without an explicit team order you'd expect a driver to make it as easy as possible to help said team mate to prevent the driver from the rival team to win. That's the most basic teamplay there is and Mark failed at it. That too is a reason why Fernando stayed in the fight for so long. Massa did what was expected of him and even a bit more (Austin penalty).
Since he's never been in that situation and probably won't be as long as Mark is his team mate, we never know how Vettel would've reacted, but I would hazard a guess that he wouldn't have reacted the wayMark did. Hell, even Schumacher was able to be #2 when the circumstances were accordingly (Malaysia 1999). Whatever Mark has going for him that makes RBR sign him repeatedly, it certainly isn't his team spirit.

[BDunnell]

And then there was Tom Walkinshaw who could be psychotic if you got the wrong side of him.

Now there is someone who proves that while being aggressive and bombastic can work up to a point in business, it won't always guarantee you success.

[N. Jones]

Alonso responds to Marko's jibes | News | Motorsport.com (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alonso-responds-to-marko-s-jibes/)

Cookies must be enabled | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/motor-sport/red-bull-team-advisor-helmut-marko-questions-mark-webbers-ability-to-handle-pressure/story-fnebo26y-1226550028735)

Is this real? Is this guy for real?

It's even reported on cra@h.net - which made me doubt it's worth immediately.

Anyway, he would be a great guy to have on your Team, if you were SV.

I really don't know what to make of Marko. I can understand the Red Bull owner (can't spell his last name :) ) wanting to get the most out of his ownership of the team, but Marko to me seems to run the show from time to time.

[wedge]

And Alonso isn't a "top driver"?
There are few would would disagree that he is the best driver on the grid.

Jesus, just think what would have happened if Senna/Prost were in his position...

I said if Alonso was not a top driver. Re-read my original post and put it into context with the 2007 season.


You're missing the point here a bit. In Brazil Mark had no chance whatsoever to win the championship, while his team mate had. Even without an explicit team order you'd expect a driver to make it as easy as possible to help said team mate to prevent the driver from the rival team to win. That's the most basic teamplay there is and Mark failed at it.

Webber let Seb through on lap 11 on the back straight.

Is race start and restarts the ideal circumstances to engineer such moves when you're racing in a pack?



Hell, even Schumacher was able to be #2 when the circumstances were accordingly (Malaysia 1999).

Shumi initially did not want to play number 2, he actually wanted to not return to racing in 1999. Jean Todt had to persuade Schumi to come back and help the team.

[BDunnell]

Is race start and restarts the ideal circumstances to engineer such moves when you're racing in a pack?

I agree completely. The criticism of Webber for what he's supposed to have done in Brazil is completely unfounded.

[jens]

I agree completely. The criticism of Webber for what he's supposed to have done in Brazil is completely unfounded.

Not really. At the start of the race Webber let the Ferraris through around the outside, while not letting Vettel through on the inside. A major misjudgement. Massa with his spacial awareness all through the race was a textbook example of how to help his team-mate - not only did he let Alonso past, but he also held up other drivers, when needed.

[BDunnell]

Not really. At the start of the race Webber let the Ferraris through around the outside, while not letting Vettel through on the inside. A major misjudgement.

I disagree completely. As wedge said, this is the start of the race we're talking about — rather different from engineering a move at some later point.

[jens]

I disagree completely. As wedge said, this is the start of the race we're talking about — rather different from engineering a move at some later point.

On several occasions I have seen efficient defending at the start of the race, even co-operation between team-mates. I remember, how Schumacher-Barrichello blocked Coulthard at Imola 2000, so that RB moved up to 3rd place.

Webber knew that Ferraris started right behind him on the grid. He could have thought about the strategy, watched in the mirrors and tried to defend his position. Especially as Vettel was alongside him, they could have made the track much "wider" instead of pushing both of them as inside as possible. As I said, it has been done in the past.

Being smart at the start of the race is part of the game. It's not something completely random and out of control you are trying to make it look like. Otherwise Grosjean would not have had his crashes. Before the lights went out, Webber knew, where the other key drivers were (Vettel on the left part of the track, Ferraris on the right). There is no plausible explanation, why did Mark need to move to the left as well and leave track open for Ferraris. Maybe you can give a good explanation if you saw no problem with Webber's start?

[BDunnell]

On several occasions I have seen efficient defending at the start of the race, even co-operation between team-mates. I remember, how Schumacher-Barrichello blocked Coulthard at Imola 2000, so that RB moved up to 3rd place.

Webber knew that Ferraris started right behind him on the grid. He could have thought about the strategy, watched in the mirrors and tried to defend his position. Especially as Vettel was alongside him, they could have made the track much "wider" instead of pushing both of them as inside as possible. As I said, it has been done in the past.

Being smart at the start of the race is part of the game. It's not something completely random and out of control you are trying to make it look like. Otherwise Grosjean would not have had his crashes. Before the lights went out, Webber knew, where the other key drivers were (Vettel on the left part of the track, Ferraris on the right). There is no plausible explanation, why did Mark need to move to the left as well and leave track open for Ferraris. Maybe you can give a good explanation if you saw no problem with Webber's start?

I'm tempted to repeat your own words from earlier in this thread, and say 'There is no problem with our opinions as long as we understand the limitations of them - and how close to reality/insight we can really get.'

[wedge]

Webber knew that Ferraris started right behind him on the grid. He could have thought about the strategy, watched in the mirrors and tried to defend his position.

Webber had a bad start as he was bogged down and became the meat in the sandwich.

He was in a compromising position. Not only letting through a team mate but risk losing anither position to a Ferrari as well.

Arguably Seb backed out of a move.

[wedge]

On several occasions I have seen efficient defending at the start of the race, even co-operation between team-mates. I remember, how Schumacher-Barrichello blocked Coulthard at Imola 2000, so that RB moved up to 3rd place.

That was a blatant example of Shumi's chopping tactics at rwce starts.

Schumi was on the dirty side of the grid and chopped deliberate - Svhumi's head movementtl confirms this as much.

In doing so it ruined DC's momentum to which Rubens capitalisd on.

[Garry Walker]

Ahh yes, Helmet Marko, the single biggest douche in F1. His obvious love for Bieber would stand out from any love story ever told. Hopefully one-eye will soon be gone from F1.

[Koz]

Hard words, from some guy on the internet. Do you live by this creed?

Yes. You only live once, if you can't do it with pride and dignity, then there's no point.

[Mekola]

Is Marko an "Austrian Briatore"???

[Big Ben]

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