Adam Parr resigned from Williams because of Bernie.

[gloomyDAY]

INTERVIEW-Motor racing-Parr delves into the art of war | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/12/07/motor-racing-parr-idUKL4N09H2E720121207)


I had resigned that week, rightly or wrongly believing that Ecclestone had told my board that no Concorde offer would be forthcoming while I was running Williams. - Adam Parr

[Knock-on]

Fascinating. Cant wait to get it :devil:

[N4D13]

Well, considering the timing of Parr's resignment, it can't come as a surprise now, can it? I don't think that someone as clever as Parr would really resign in the midst of the negotiations for the new Concorde agreement due to family issues. It was rather obvious that there was something else, and Joe Saward brought this up some time ago, claiming that Ecclestone didn't really like having Parr around as he would be a dangerous competitor.

[N4D13]

Planting seeds « (http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/12/12/planting-seeds/)
Here's some more light on the subject. It might not have been just Bernie to blame for Parr's exit, though...

[zako85]

I would love if Parr stirred up enough attention for European union to look into the terms of Concorde agreement and such. I question the sportsmanship of F1 when teams like Ferrari or RedBull demand more influence and more money simply for being Ferrari and RedBull.

[SGWilko]

I would love if Parr stirred up enough attention for European union to look into the terms of Concorde agreement and such. I question the sportsmanship of F1 when teams like Ferrari or RedBull demand more influence and more money simply for being Ferrari and RedBull.

I get the Ferrari payment, as they are guninely a big draw for the sport - love them or hate them. But Red Bull? No way Pedro!

[zako85]

I am absolutely against a special treatment of the teams, all without exception. Specially Ferrari! Ferrari is an 800-pound gorilla of the sport. The _last_ thing they need is more money and more influence. Ferrari will be always Ferrari, they will always get good sponsorship money. Heck. Ferrari is getting something like $100 million dollars a year only from Marlboro, even though Ferrari stopped promoting this sponsor in any way. My view has always been that Ferrari needs F1 far more than F1 needs Ferrari.

[SGWilko]

I am absolutely against a special treatment of the teams, all without exception. Specially Ferrari! Ferrari is an 800-pound gorilla of the sport. The _last_ thing they need is more money and more influence. Ferrari will be always Ferrari, they will always get good sponsorship money. Heck. Ferrari is getting something like $100 million dollars a year only from Marlboro, even though Ferrari stopped promoting this sponsor in any way. My view has always been that Ferrari needs F1 far more than F1 needs Ferrari.

Ah yes, but when you, as a team owner, whip their crimson arses in the WDC & WCC's, the champagne tastes even better!

[Knock-on]

I get the Ferrari payment, as they are guninely a big draw for the sport - love them or hate them. But Red Bull? No way Pedro!

I'm 100% behind Parr and Joe on this. For years I was saying that it's unfair that Ferrari get preferential treatment and more money and yet the Ferrari fans all bellowed it was rubbish and I had no proof. Well we have it now.

For the last couple of years I have been claiming that Redbull are getting much too much leverage and preferential treatment within F1 because of their importance to Motorsport and again, people are digging their heads into the sand and claiming there is no proof.

I'm glad that someone as respected as Joe has come out and said the same.

Parr is correct, the sport should be transparant and no team should get an unfaif advantage.

[SGWilko]

I'm 100% behind Parr and Joe on this. For years I was saying that it's unfair that Ferrari get preferential treatment and more money and yet the Ferrari fans all bellowed it was rubbish and I had no proof. Well we have it now.

For the last couple of years I have been claiming that Redbull are getting much too much leverage and preferential treatment within F1 because of their importance to Motorsport and again, people are digging their heads into the sand and claiming there is no proof.

I'm glad that someone as respected as Joe has come out and said the same.

Parr is correct, the sport should be transparant and no team should get an unfaif advantage.

Whilst I get the payment to Ferrari - the veto they had was totally 'British Telecom'

[Knock-on]

Sorry, I don't understnd?

[SGWilko]

British Telecom = Out of Order

Ferrari had, during the Max years, a right of veto in respect of rule changes.....

[Knock-on]

Ahhh. Yes I agree. But, I think it should be a level playing field for all competitors.

Otherwise it's like letting Armstrong take drugs and nobody else :)

[SGWilko]

OK, how about an additional prize fund based upon length of participation in the F1 championship?

[Knock-on]

Why? What other sport has a sort of Pension built into it?

[SGWilko]

Because it would be more fair than just bunging money at one long standing team, but not at another, purely to achieve an alternative aim (a la Bernie and his Concorde).

Giving Red Bull a wedge, when they could still walk away is short sighted. Encouraging them to stay with a windfall if they stick at it would be better.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Why? What other sport has a sort of Pension built into it?

What other sport can get into trouble because participants can walk out at the drop of a hat? Which other sport has only 10-12 competitors to begin with? What other sport asks its competitors to pay millions, just to be able to participate, while hoping you stay in the game. I think a growing bonus depending on participation would be a start. Traditional teams like Williams would get a bigger slice of the pie than 'plastic teams' like Red Bull. That would of course have to be combined with a results-based formula as well and I think all constructors should get money. Cutting off nr. 11 and 12 in the standings is complete bovine excrement.
Why not establish a scheme, where the team that comes bog last gets its entry fee and work up the order from there, so even the 11th gets a bit more money than they paid to participate.

[Knock-on]

So, lets say your a team like Red Bull thinking bout coming into the sport.

"Hey", you think "If I stick around and invest $Billions$ then in 20 years time, I might get a few $$$ back.

Basically, what you are saying is that established teams get more money than teams wanting to come in meaning they can survive without achieveing success while New teams are discriminated against and discouraged from joining the series.

Guess we should Sack Bernie and get you two Rocket Scientists in ;)

[AndyL]

So, lets say your a team like Red Bull thinking bout coming into the sport.

"Hey", you think "If I stick around and invest $Billions$ then in 20 years time, I might get a few $$$ back.

Basically, what you are saying is that established teams get more money than teams wanting to come in meaning they can survive without achieveing success while New teams are discriminated against and discouraged from joining the series.

Guess we should Sack Bernie and get you two Rocket Scientists in ;)

I think a bit of fairness is all people are asking for. Paying teams according to what they've done - whether that's in terms of long-term contribution or short-term sporting success - not who they are.
It's the difference between F1 being a sport first, or being a business first.

[dj_bytedisaster]

So, lets say your a team like Red Bull thinking bout coming into the sport.

"Hey", you think "If I stick around and invest $Billions$ then in 20 years time, I might get a few $$$ back.

Basically, what you are saying is that established teams get more money than teams wanting to come in meaning they can survive without achieveing success while New teams are discriminated against and discouraged from joining the series.

Guess we should Sack Bernie and get you two Rocket Scientists in ;)

Well, Williams already HAS invested Billions, so yes, they should get a bit more "basic bonus" than Red Bull, who just storm in, throw gobs of money at the best designer in town and wipe the fridge clean. If you'd have taken the time to read my post in its entirety, you'd know that I have a two-part system in mind:

1. the "success bonus": The last team gets it's entry fee back, while the others would get more the higher they finish.
2. the participation bonus. The rest of the TV monies are split among the teams based on how long each of them has been around.

That might not be the perfect system, but it beats the hell out of Bernie's "he-who-kisses-my-arse-the-gentlest" scheme.

[wedge]

I can only think Parr wants to get his own back on Bernie - not that I advocate BCE's antics afterall favouritism and egos are part and parcel of politics.


Because it would be more fair than just bunging money at one long standing team, but not at another, purely to achieve an alternative aim (a la Bernie and his Concorde).

Giving Red Bull a wedge, when they could still walk away is short sighted. Encouraging them to stay with a windfall if they stick at it would be better.

Red Bull and Ferrari affilliated teams are no longer part of FOTA.

Years ago we had precursor to FOTA - the Grand Prix Manufacturers Association who really never cared about the smaller teams. Bernie capitalised on this and lured the privateers as well as Ferrari.

A few years ago Williams advocated a budget cap which FOTA didn't nor do Williams appreciate the idea of customer cars. It got to the point that they were suspended from FOTA.

You could argue that Williams have been been been easily charmed by Bernie but the reality is that F1 lives up to the Piranha Club moniker - concerned about looking after themselves.

[DoctorMendel]

Thanks for starting that topic.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

It's a bit unfair to call Red Bull a 'flash in the pan' team. They've been a team for 8 years now and been a sponsor in F1 since the mid-90s.

[vhatever]

I had resigned that week, rightly or wrongly believing that Ecclestone had told my board that no Concorde offer would be forthcoming while I was running Williams. - Adam Parr

The thing about a snake pit-- there are only snakes in them,

[jaique]

What necessary words... super, magnificent idea