10 Best Drivers of 2011 and 2012

[zako85]

Last year, Russian auto news web site motor.ru posted its ranking of the best drivers of 2011:

http://motor.ru/articles/2011/12/16/champions/


Their ranking was:

10. Will Power (IndyCar)
9. Lewis Hamilton (F1)
8. Tony Stewart (NASCAR)
7. Martin Tomczyk (DTM)
6. Sébastien Ogier (WRC)
5. Dario Franchitti (IndyCar)
4. Sébastien Loeb (WRC)
3. Jenson Button (F1)
2. Fernando Alonso (F1)
1. Sebastian Vettel (F1)

(I think 2&3 positions could have been a contentious issue, but the decision to rank Alonso higher than Button seems to be based on the fact that Button did not have enough speed in qualification relative to Hamilton)

They haven't yet published a similar article for 2012. I wonder, how would you rank this years drivers? This seems like a difficult task, as I don't track all those different types of motor competitions. I will come back much later to see comments, as I am still watching recorded FIA GT and BTCC racing. I do wonder if Jamie Whincup of Australian V8 Supercars should have been included in 2011 and 2012 ranking (possibly bumping Will Power out of top 10). His driving seemed nothing short of amazing to me.

[zako85]

Russia's online magazine Motor.ru has published its list of best 10 "racers" of the year of all motorsports. The magazine warns that comparing drivers across different disciplines is highly subjective. Moreover, this is not a ranking of "pilots". They prefer to call it a subjective ranking of "racers". They mentioned that this is as much a ranking of a driver's character as of his prowess on the track.
RAW LINK (http://motor.ru/articles/2012/12/20/champions/)

GOOGLE TRANSLATOR (http://motor.ru/articles/2012/12/20/champions/) (doesn't make much sense at times..)

Ranking:

1. Kimi Räikkönen (F1)
2. Sebastian Vettel (F1)
3. Fernando Alonso (F1)
4. Lewis Hamilton (F1)
5. Ryan Hunter-Reay (IndyCar)
6. Bruno Spengler (DTM)
7. Sébastien Loeb (WRC)
8. Brad Keselowski (NASCAR)
9. Robin Frijns (Formula Renault 3.5)
10. Janson Button (F1)

The ranking is certainly somewhat controversial, but there is no point to argue too much with a subjective view of others. I like it that at least someone puts Kimi Räikkönen at the top. He certainly brought a lot of to F1 in 2012. After skimming the article, it appears that the decision to rank Vettel above Alonso is motivated by Alonso's off-track behavior. They considered Alonso and Vettel to be about equal on the track, but ranked Vettel's "character" higher, as according to them, Alonso, despite enjoying the #1 pilot status, spent too much time building his public image, by frequently complaining about his car, his competitors, etc. I am disappointed that Jamie Whincup of Australian V8 Supercar fame has not been mentioned. I guess it's difficult to keep track of V8 Supercars in addition to all others sports that this magazine already follows (they also cover WTCC, sports cars, etc)

[ShiftingGears]

Not that lists like this are ever realistic, but rating Loeb below Hunter-Reay is when I know a list is a complete joke.

[zako85]

^

Yes, it's very subjective. However, you argue like there was no way to create this ranking _other_ than ranking Loeb above Hunter-Reay. I'd disagree. Loeb entered the 2012 WRC season being an 8 time champion, enjoying #1 status, and driving the car of a dominant team. On the other hand, Hunter-Reay entered this IndyCar season as an up-and-coming pilot, but still an underdog, and driving a car of an underdog team. He arrived to the last race of season with a huge points deficit. Most considered his chances purely mathematical, and yet he won the championship. So the logic of placing Hunter-Reay higher is not entirely flawed.

Motor.ru does have its reasons for not ranking Loeb too high. Last year they stated something along the lines: "Loeb was good, but he was good in his "usual way". And therefore to be ranked above 4th place he should have done something special, such as winning sooner or winning more races". This year, they ranked him lower than in 2011, and I'd won't disagree. Without Sebastien Ogier driving the same car, you could predict that this was supposed to be an easier season for Loeb.

[ShiftingGears]

^

Yes, it's very subjective. However, you argue like there was no way to create this ranking _other_ than ranking Loeb above Hunter-Reay. I'd disagree. Loeb entered the 2012 WRC season being an 8 time champion, enjoying #1 status, and driving the car of a dominant team. On the other hand, Hunter-Reay entered this IndyCar season as an up-and-coming pilot, but still an underdog, and driving a car of an underdog team. He arrived to the last race of season with a huge points deficit. Most considered his chances purely mathematical, and yet he won the championship. So the logic of placing Hunter-Reay higher is not entirely flawed.

Motor.ru does have its reasons for not ranking Loeb too high. Last year they stated something along the lines: "Loeb was good, but he was good in his "usual way". And therefore to be ranked above 4th place he should have done something special, such as winning sooner or winning more races". This year, they ranked him lower than in 2011, and I'd won't disagree. Without Sebastien Ogier driving the same car, you could predict that this was supposed to be an easier season for Loeb.

As far as the motorsport category that WRC represents, WRC is the pinnacle. Something that no-one rational could justify IndyCar as. Anyone with talent or popularity enabling them to leave AOWR would do so (for example, Sebastien Bourdais, Sam Hornish Jr, Danica Patrick, AJ Allmendinger), so that is why I completely disagree with anyone rating an IndyCar driver as the 4th best in the world. If they were that good they would not be languishing in a dying racing series.

[zako85]

As far as the motorsport category that WRC represents, WRC is the pinnacle. Something that no-one rational could justify IndyCar as.


WRC may be the top dog within its category, but the entire rally and open wheel racing categories do not have to be equal to each other. And so, it's entirely conceivable to compare a top WRC and vs IndyCar driver, specially if you evaluate the relative circumstances in while Loeb and Hunter-Reay started this year. In my view WRC and rally in general was far more moribund recently than it used to be, so it's entirely acceptable to compare WRC talent to IndyCar talent IMO.



Anyone with talent or popularity enabling them to leave AOWR would do so (for example, Sebastien Bourdais, Sam Hornish Jr, Danica Patrick, AJ Allmendinger), so that is why I completely disagree with anyone rating an IndyCar driver as the 4th best in the world. If they were that good they would not be languishing in a dying racing series.

This whole post reeks of elitism and bias to me. Are you saying that just because the IndyCar series is not very popular (although Indy500 is still one of the most popular events of all motor sport, I'd argue WRC has nothing comparable to it), it does not attract a lot of talent? Also, some of your examples do not stand any scrutiny. For example, Danica Patrick left not because she thinks IndyCar is not "worth" of her presence. Anyone with half brain knows she was oversold. She left IndyCar because after years and years of racing in IndyCar, she hasn't accomplished much. The novelty wore out, the results weren't there, and everyone pretty much stopped talking about her, so she moved onto a new pasture in the NASCAR-land, which is the next most obvious series for her to be in. Sebastien Bourdais is a good driver, and trying to move to F1 was certainly a logical move. But as I already mentioned, just because we'd rank F1 above IndyCar, does not imply that WRC talent is ranked above IndyCar talent.

IndyCar is pretty much in the process of picking up pieces from previous disasters right now, but the 2012 improvements were obvious to me: new chassis, three engine manufacturers (Lotus left though), one of the best Indy 500 races of all time, great show, and great fight all the way to the very end of championship. This was a perfect year for IndyCar. While one good year will not change the perception of public of IndyCar, it certainly is moving, slowly, in the right direction IMO. WRC is not really much better. From manufacturer's perspective, you just have two manufacturers fighting each other. Not much of a difference IMO.

And IndyCar has great drivers. Saying that IndyCar drivers can't be great because they would have moved elsewhere is a complete hogwash to me. It's like saying that WRC drivers are rubbish. Otherwise, they would have moved to sports cars or F1. Like WRC, IndyCar is a specialized motor sport, since as you know winning on the ovals does not have to translate to winning on F1 road courses and vice versa. A lot of drivers are excellent and highly underrated. Take Francitti. Why wouldn't he move elsewhere? Because he is great in open wheels and on oval tracks, and he already makes a ridiculous amount of money as is. And driving somewhere in mid-pack in other series will not suit him or others who could move.

In any case, I posted a logical reply on Hunter-Reay's worth and why he could be ranked higher with more or less sound reason in someone's world view, and all you could come up with in reply is some childish and elitist bashing of IndyCar with no much facts to show for it.

[Ranger]

Ford driver Mikko Hirvonen was runner-up to Loeb in 2008, 2009 and 2011. He then became Loeb's team-mate at Citroen in 2012.

Hirvonen scored one win. Loeb scored nine.

I would personally put him at number 1 on that list.

[wedge]

IMHO, Brad Keselowski would be my 2012 DOTY. He went toe to toe with Jimmie Johnson just about every week in The Chase and the defining moment being Texas race - boys, let 'em have it; rubbing and respecting each other.


Not that lists like this are ever realistic, but rating Loeb below Hunter-Reay is when I know a list is a complete joke.

Problem with Loeb is that he shares the same perception as Schumi.

Personally I'd put RHR above Loeb. Granted Hirvonen gave Loeb a good run for his money but as sad as this sounds 2012 has been the year of the underdog.

AGR have been weak for a number of years, RHR has been the perennial journeyman and with no certified drive for next season despite being a contender after coming from behind - though I will agree with the argument that Will Power's achilles heel would later catch up on him.