Autosport awards - a complete joke!

[The Black Knight]

I can understand Sebastien Vettel receiving International Racing Driver of the year award since he won the title - no problem there.

I cannot understand Jenson Button receiving 2012 British Competition Driver of the Year Award ahead of Lewis Hamilton. They both had the same car underneath them and Button was destroyed by Hamilton in every conceivable way this year excepting Spa and Australia. It has just proven to me that the Autosport awards are complete rubbish and not reflective of the true story.

[F1boat]

I am happy with the Autosport Awards results. I agree with them with the choices of Vettel, Red Bull, Loeb, Citroen and Shedden in their respective categories. The award of Jenson seems to be a little bit weird and I can think of only two explanations. One is that Lewis may not be popular among journalists (I guess that journalists vote in these awards?). If true, this is not very professional, although it will further emphasize the problematic character of Lewis. The other explanation however is that Jenson is a British driver who will continue to defend the honour of a British team, while Lewis will go to a German rival. This means that we had a nationalistic vote, which is understandable. After all, the award is for British driver.
My personal choice for British driver of the year however would be Dario Franchitti, who won the Indy 500 for a third time - that's great achievement.

[F1boat]

Who votes in these awards anyway?

[F1boat]

If so it is strange to see Button with more votes than Hamilton, it seems that I underestimated his popularity... Vettel also seems more popular than what is seen in forums.

[dj_bytedisaster]

The problem is that not all readers of Autosport as as well informed as most people in here. They look at the stats and see that Hamilton seemed to be retiring a lot and that we seemed rather inconsistent. That most of these retirements and lower points positions are to blame on the team has already left the memory of many casual F1 fans.
Then there is the topic of popularity. Button has a bit of an image as the 'quite, but likeable bloke', while Hamilton did himself very few favours with his 2011 antics. That certainly plays a role, too.

[The Black Knight]

You only have to venture on to Autosports forum to see they have hundreds of posters with the place being quite busy, but rarely do you find a sensible person who really knows what they are talking about and the quality of discussion is appalling. You get a lot more quality discussion here in my experience. If that is a correct demographic of the type of person who generally reads Autosport then its not surprising you get results like this.

I agree with that. I ventured onto the autosports forum a few weeks ago. I'm not a member. I was going to become a one but after a few quick scans through the threads I decided I twas better off not debating with most of the people in there as it would frustrate me too much. So for my own sanity I stuck to this one ;)

[The Black Knight]

I am happy with the Autosport Awards results. I agree with them with the choices of Vettel, Red Bull, Loeb, Citroen and Shedden in their respective categories. The award of Jenson seems to be a little bit weird and I can think of only two explanations. One is that Lewis may not be popular among journalists (I guess that journalists vote in these awards?). If true, this is not very professional, although it will further emphasize the problematic character of Lewis. The other explanation however is that Jenson is a British driver who will continue to defend the honour of a British team, while Lewis will go to a German rival. This means that we had a nationalistic vote, which is understandable. After all, the award is for British driver.
My personal choice for British driver of the year however would be Dario Franchitti, who won the Indy 500 for a third time - that's great achievement.

Yeah, unfortunately I think you are right in these assumptions. People seem to warm to Button more than Hamilton these last few seasons. Button is a fantastic driver but he this year when Hamilton got his head down really showed the true gap between the two and for most of the year Hamilton has been on another planet to Button. It's a pity people don't read the question before answering it though before letting their personal feelings get involved.

[F1boat]

Button is a fantastic driver but he this year when Hamilton got his head down really showed the true gap between the two and for most of the year Hamilton has been on another planet to Button.

This is a little bit harsh as I think that Jenson had a poor season for his own standards. Hopefully he will do better next year, as he is one of my favorite drivers. However I am very surprised that he is more popular than Lewis, even if among the Autosport readers. My impression from the online communities, including the Autosport Atlas forum, is that Lewis and Fernando are the most popular drivers... yet they lose to Jenson and Sebastian.

[The Black Knight]

This is a little bit harsh as I think that Jenson had a poor season for his own standards. Hopefully he will do better next year, as he is one of my favorite drivers. However I am very surprised that he is more popular than Lewis, even if among the Autosport readers. My impression from the online communities, including the Autosport Atlas forum, is that Lewis and Fernando are the most popular drivers... yet they lose to Jenson and Sebastian.

Well, to be honest, I think this year has just highlighted his limitations as a driver. Give him a car that handles perfectly and he'll be just as quick, if not quicker than anyone else. If the car isn't perfect though he is very limited. Yes, fingers crossed that he'll do better next year and that McLaren give him the car he required but I honestly think he'll only win you a championship with a car that is clearly the best on the grid for most of the year.

[F1boat]

Time will tell...

[CaptainRaiden]

Was gonna start a thread about this, but good on you Knighty.

As for the award, what an absolute joke. It seems the "fans" who voted only saw the points table at the end of the year, not Lewis' 5 DNFs due to mechanical failures or somebody else's brain farts or the fact that he thrashed Button ridiculously in qualifying and races throughout the year.

As for popularity based on Autosport fans' opinion, I don't know how that is relevant. If it's the same tools who voted on this award, then it doesn't surprise me.

For most die-hard F1 fans, Alonso and Lewis are still considered the best in unison with Vettel a distant third, as far as I have seen.

[F1boat]

Raikkonen is also very popular and respected among fans. I think that it will be nice if we have FIA poll for popularity. I suspect that if German votes are added we may see that Vettel is very popular.

[F1boat]

Button is generally more popular than Lewis as a personality

I didn't know that. :)

[F1boat]

Most likely not, as Vettel won... Autosport is well liked among fans all over the world :)

[dj_bytedisaster]

For most die-hard F1 fans, Alonso and Lewis are still considered the best in unison with Vettel a distant third, as far as I have seen.

Not necessarily. I consider myself a die-hard F1 fan and I wouldn't make that particular distinction. First of all, no matter how much people deny it, personal preference always play into it, when 'listing drivers by awesomeness'. Barely any driver has been exposed to so much vitriol like Vettel over the last two years when the only crime he has committed is winning too much. Therefore many people are driven to say that he's a much lesser driver than Alonso or Hamilton, which is wrong. Each driver has his personal strengths and weaknesses.
Vettel is a very fast and talented driver, but his weakness is that he has developed such a specialized driving style, that he's nigh-on unbeatable when the car fits his preference, but when it doesn't - he struggles.
Alonso and Hamilton could drive the wheels off a wheelie bin and still finish in the points, but that means their driving styles are significantly more aggressive and therefore put more strain on tires an material. Hamilton proved the point in Austin, when he almost lost contact to Vettel on degrading softer tires. He simply had cooked them. Only after switching to the harder compound on which the McLaren had been the fastest car over most the year, he could make his move on Vettel.
I sometimes think, people rate drivers by how spectacular their driving looks. Of course it appears much greater, if someone thrashes his car around on opposite lock, but that doesn't mean it is faster or better.
Jenson is probably the most unspectacular of all drivers, but he is efficient. No matter how much faster Lewis appears to be, over the three years they've been driving together, Jenson has won more points than Lewis, just by being reliable. And that is as much part of a complete driver than being blindingly quick. Which is why Alonso was so great this year - he was fast AND reliable. People all point as Lewis' retirements due to technical failures. I've always wondered whether his aggressive style isn't putting too much strain on the mechanical parts.

Long story short. I think most of the top-drivers are championship material, but they need different things to go their way to achieve it and Alonso proved that there is no such driver as one, who would win in any case. They all need the correct circumstances to make most of their strengths and to avoid their weaknesses.

[The Black Knight]

Not necessarily. I consider myself a die-hard F1 fan and I wouldn't make that particular distinction. First of all, no matter how much people deny it, personal preference always play into it, when 'listing drivers by awesomeness'. Barely any driver has been exposed to so much vitriol like Vettel over the last two years when the only crime he has committed is winning too much. Therefore many people are driven to say that he's a much lesser driver than Alonso or Hamilton, which is wrong. Each driver has his personal strengths and weaknesses.
Vettel is a very fast and talented driver, but his weakness is that he has developed such a specialized driving style, that he's nigh-on unbeatable when the car fits his preference, but when it doesn't - he struggles.
Alonso and Hamilton could drive the wheels off a wheelie bin and still finish in the points, but that means their driving styles are significantly more aggressive and therefore put more strain on tires an material. Hamilton proved the point in Austin, when he almost lost contact to Vettel on degrading softer tires. He simply had cooked them. Only after switching to the harder compound on which the McLaren had been the fastest car over most the year, he could make his move on Vettel.

I have been wondering why Hamilton lost that time before the first pit stop. It seems a bit contradictory because his Engineer came on the radio to him and said that the tyres were in much better condition than they expected and that Hamilton could push to the end, therefore, I'm not sure if it was that he cooked them or backed of so as to be sure not to cook them. Either way, I would like to know the real reason.



I sometimes think, people rate drivers by how spectacular their driving looks. Of course it appears much greater, if someone thrashes his car around on opposite lock, but that doesn't mean it is faster or better.
Jenson is probably the most unspectacular of all drivers, but he is efficient. No matter how much faster Lewis appears to be, over the three years they've been driving together, Jenson has won more points than Lewis, just by being reliable. And that is as much part of a complete driver than being blindingly quick. Which is why Alonso was so great this year - he was fast AND reliable. People all point as Lewis' retirements due to technical failures. I've always wondered whether his aggressive style isn't putting too much strain on the mechanical parts.

Long story short. I think most of the top-drivers are championship material, but they need different things to go their way to achieve it and Alonso proved that there is no such driver as one, who would win in any case. They all need the correct circumstances to make most of their strengths and to avoid their weaknesses.

People were wondering this about Kimi once upon a time when he had a a string of failures at McLaren as well in 2003, saying that Kimi's style was putting too much mechanical strain on the car but this is a nonsense theory. If a car is going to break down it's going to break down, it's up to the team to build a reliable car. Just look at Kimi, this year he finished all races, so hardly to do with his aggressive style. If a car breaks down it's the teams fault not the drivers and there have been plenty of smooth drivers in the past that have suffered mechanical reliability. Cars sometimes break and each time the car broke for Lewis this year the team found a reason for it and none of those reasons were "Lewis you're driving too hard".

I pretty much agree with everything you have said though. I will say that I do try to be as unbiased as I can be when judging a driver. Take Alonso for example, I don't particularly like him, but I do believe he deserved this years title more so than Vettel. I think Vettel is quite a nice chap, but I honestly don't feel that he is the overall driver either Alonso or Hamilton is. You're assertion of him is correct, when the car is right, he is unstoppable but I think he is only unstoppable in some circumstances and that either Alonso or Hamilton in the same machinery could beat him most of the time... not all though :)

[AndyL]

As for the award, what an absolute joke. It seems the "fans" who voted only saw the points table at the end of the year

Presumably they did not even consider the points table, because of course Hamilton was ahead of Button on that score. I'm sure it's only down to which driver the voters found the more likeable. A bit like how being a good musician isn't particularly important on X-factor. You would hope for better from Autosport readers, but I guess not based on Henners' description of their forums.

[acescribe]

I'm fairly sure it is the readers of Autosport Magazine, rather than any of their other platforms, that vote. There used to be a form inside, I'm not sure if there still is as I confess that in these times of austerity, once it hit and passed £3 an issue I stopped buying it. It could well be just in the UK too that votes come in from - I remember buying the issue which would have had the form in when in Australia one year and it had been removed (and the issue was sealed)

I am not at all surprised to see Jenson get voted ahead of Lewis. I agree in that the die-hard fans admire his poweress, and that inclides myself, he would have got my vote, but going on comments that appear on my facebook page for instance, he simply does not have the raport, popularity and support with the average motor sport fan in England/UK that Button has. Add to that certain factions of the Fleet Street press portraying him as a playboy dreamer walking down the yellow brick road on his move to Mercedes etc.

[dj_bytedisaster]

You're assertion of him is correct, when the car is right, he is unstoppable but I think he is only unstoppable in most circumstances and that either Alonso or Hamilton in the same machinery could beat him most of the time... not all though :)

That is the point where I disagree. Red Bull 2012 is the best example. Mark was on par if not slightly better than Vettel in the first half of the season, because the car's twitchyness suited Marks style and really hurt Vettel's. Once they had recovered back-end stability, Vettel beat the pants off Mark. That's the thing, even the best drivers in the world need a car that fits their preferred driving style. IIRC from seasons past, both Alonso and Hamilton prefer a slightly oversteering car - so one with more glue on the front. Which in theory means, they would make Vettel look like Deletraz in a car, which prefers their style, while Vettel would probably trounce them if the car was tailored to his style, so saying Alonso or Hamilton would automatically beat Vettel in the same machinery is academic and more likely wishful thinking.
Vettel has shown that he's quick regardless of the car in spec machinery. He cleaned out the German Formula BMW by winning each and every race (18 out of 20) except two, where he finished 2nd and third. You don't trounce a complete championship like that by having to rely on the best machinery. He also bowed out of the Renault World series as the leader, when he was called up to drive for BMW and then STR.
People also tend to forget that he's the only one, who ever finished a STR higher than 7. If we would be still running the old point scheme, he would be the only person ever to score points in a STR and he did that several times and one of that times was a win. I think he's better than given credit for, but I think he'll be able to silence his critics when he leaves RB, which will probably be at the end of his current contract after 2014.

[wedge]

This is a little bit harsh as I think that Jenson had a poor season for his own standards.

It reflects his abilities - inferior when the car is not to his liking and can never overcome/extract the maximum in the dry.

Not that much different to Honda except Rubens was not of the same level as Hamilton. Rubens could drive better than JB but Hamilton could destroy JB for a period earlier in the year.

[MrJan]

Maybe it's because Lewis acts like a spoilt twerp? I think he's a great driver but Jenson is a great driver too, doesn't spend his whole time blaming someone else and actually seems like a decent bloke (I would quite happily go to the pub with JB, Hamilton less so).

[The Black Knight]

That is the point where I disagree. Red Bull 2012 is the best example. Mark was on par if not slightly better than Vettel in the first half of the season, because the car's twitchyness suited Marks style and really hurt Vettel's. Once they had recovered back-end stability, Vettel beat the pants off Mark. That's the thing, even the best drivers in the world need a car that fits their preferred driving style. IIRC from seasons past, both Alonso and Hamilton prefer a slightly oversteering car - so one with more glue on the front. Which in theory means, they would make Vettel look like Deletraz in a car, which prefers their style, while Vettel would probably trounce them if the car was tailored to his style, so saying Alonso or Hamilton would automatically beat Vettel in the same machinery is academic and more likely wishful thinking.
Vettel has shown that he's quick regardless of the car in spec machinery. He cleaned out the German Formula BMW by winning each and every race (18 out of 20) except two, where he finished 2nd and third. You don't trounce a complete championship like that by having to rely on the best machinery. He also bowed out of the Renault World series as the leader, when he was called up to drive for BMW and then STR.
People also tend to forget that he's the only one, who ever finished a STR higher than 7. If we would be still running the old point scheme, he would be the only person ever to score points in a STR and he did that several times and one of that times was a win. I think he's better than given credit for, but I think he'll be able to silence his critics when he leaves RB, which will probably be at the end of his current contract after 2014.

I feel that it doesn't matter what car you give Alonso or Hamilton, both would be able to modify their style of driving to suit it but Vettel wouldn't be able to adapt as well, as shown earlier this year, and that is why I don't regard Vettel as highly.

But you may be right, and I'm very open to the possibility that I am underrating Vettel. Maybe over the coming years he'll silence his critics, including me. If he does, I'll be more than happy to change my opinion of him and admit I was wrong.

[dj_bytedisaster]

It reflects his abilities - inferior when the car is not to his liking and can never overcome/extract the maximum in the dry.


To be honest, that can be said about every racing driver. When the Ferrari isn't to his liking, even Alonso cannot do a thing. Best example: Austin. He qualified 9th, almost 0.400 behind his team mate. Then he got handed two positions by Grosjean and the shafting of Massa. He made up two places by a good start and that was it. He was fourth after the first corner and all he did for the rest of the race was losing time on Vettel and Hamilton and inheriting Webber's 3rd place. He came in a lucky third almost 40 seconds behing. His team mate, who was shafted back to 11th ended up 7 second behind him in 4th.
That only goes to show that even a driver as quick as Alonso looks very ordinary if the car isn't up to it. He didn't extract the maximum out of it - Massa did.

[wedge]

That is the point where I disagree. Red Bull 2012 is the best example. Mark was on par if not slightly better than Vettel in the first half of the season, because the car's twitchyness suited Marks style and really hurt Vettel's. Once they had recovered back-end stability, Vettel beat the pants off Mark. That's the thing, even the best drivers in the world need a car that fits their preferred driving style. IIRC from seasons past, both Alonso and Hamilton prefer a slightly oversteering car - so one with more glue on the front. Which in theory means, they would make Vettel look like Deletraz in a car, which prefers their style, while Vettel would probably trounce them if the car was tailored to his style, so saying Alonso or Hamilton would automatically beat Vettel in the same machinery is academic and more likely wishful thinking.


Both Webber and Seb like cars with sharp turn in but go about it in different ways. Seb is like Mansell: early turn in on the brakes and rotate the car immediately coming of the brakes; Webber is the textbook late turn in.

Alonso is adaptable but his style is an aggressive version of JB's with mid-corner understeer - notable in the Renault era.

[F1boat]

I feel that it doesn't matter what car you give Alonso or Hamilton, both would be able to modify their style of driving to suit it but Vettel wouldn't be able to adapt as well, as shown earlier this year, and that is why I don't regard Vettel as highly.

But you may be right, and I'm very open to the possibility that I am underrating Vettel. Maybe over the coming years he'll silence his critics, including me. If he does, I'll be more than happy to change my opinion of him and admit I was wrong.

In my opinion time will be kind to Vettel. If he wins more championships at one moment numbers will be too overwhelming not to consider him an F1 great. But even if he doesn't win more, people start to appreciate the achievements of drivers when their success starts to sink in them. My personal impression is that Mika Hakkinen for example is more highly rated now, when people have fond memories of his wins, that at the time of these wins, when many felt that he is winning what rightfully should be to Michael Schumacher. Alonso is also more respected now than in 2005 and 2006, when many people though that he won due to better reliability.

[The Black Knight]

In my opinion time will be kind to Vettel. If he wins more championships at one moment numbers will be too overwhelming not to consider him an F1 great. But even if he doesn't win more, people start to appreciate the achievements of drivers when their success starts to sink in them. My personal impression is that Mika Hakkinen for example is more highly rated now, when people have fond memories of his wins, that at the time of these wins, when many felt that he is winning what rightfully should be to Michael Schumacher. Alonso is also more respected now than in 2005 and 2006, when many people though that he won due to better reliability.

Yeah, unfortunately a lot of people seem to go in for nostalgia. I honestly feel that Mika was a really good driver but I'd never regard him in the pantheon of all time greats. On his day he was super quick but there was always that little bit of edge missing for me. Still a fantastic driver and I'd rate him higher than JB and very similarly to Vettel in that regard. Give him the car and he's the flying Finn, if he doesn't have it, then maybe not flying so much ;)

[Tazio]

Button 2012 British Competition Driver of the Year
Rubbish :laugh:
This "poll' must have been taken after "The Boss" announced his move to Mercedes, and it affected some butt hurt UK fans :rolleyes:
This sort of nonsense is insulting, and it drags this informed forum down if we give it any credence. :down:

[CaptainRaiden]

Not necessarily. I consider myself a die-hard F1 fan and I wouldn't make that particular distinction. First of all, no matter how much people deny it, personal preference always play into it, when 'listing drivers by awesomeness'.

Well, of course. Driver "awesomeness" lists are personal opinions after all. The only way to find out how good they are is if all three were driving the exact same cars. I have no problem with Vettel to be clear. I am aware of his talent, and also appreciative of his brilliant qualifying pace. You don't win 3 championships by being mediocre. IMO Alonso and Lewis are superior, but it is just that, an opinion.


Barely any driver has been exposed to so much vitriol like Vettel over the last two years when the only crime he has committed is winning too much.

I believe Vettel doesn't get much love from a lot of people is because of his antics and sometimes petulant behavior. Some drivers just piss people off for no apparent reason. Probably the same reason why some fans go off on Hamilton. And then there are some "fans", even on this forum, who can't stand Hamilton for the same reasons, yet go absolutely gaga over Vettel. For example I hated Alonso during the 2005-2008 period, but now have warmed up to him recognizing his brilliance.


Therefore many people are driven to say that he's a much lesser driver than Alonso or Hamilton, which is wrong. Each driver has his personal strengths and weaknesses.
Vettel is a very fast and talented driver, but his weakness is that he has developed such a specialized driving style, that he's nigh-on unbeatable when the car fits his preference, but when it doesn't - he struggles.

He still does better than many give him credit for. For example, he was very consistent this season, along with Alonso regularly getting into points even when the car wasn't to his liking. However, IMO Alonso and Hamilton can drive around a car's problem better as they have demonstrated against Massa and Button.


Jenson is probably the most unspectacular of all drivers, but he is efficient. No matter how much faster Lewis appears to be, over the three years they've been driving together, Jenson has won more points than Lewis, just by being reliable. And that is as much part of a complete driver than being blindingly quick. Which is why Alonso was so great this year - he was fast AND reliable. People all point as Lewis' retirements due to technical failures. I've always wondered whether his aggressive style isn't putting too much strain on the mechanical parts.

Sorry, but that is simply false and ridiculous. Driving styles don't break cars. This has long been a myth, and has been proven to be wrong over the last decade. Kimi was called a car breaker during his stint at Mclaren, but that disappeared once he went to Ferrari and now at Lotus. Did he change his driving style? No. TBH I don't think he'd even care enough. Lewis enjoyed very good reliability in 2007 and 2008. Did he become more aggressive? No.

F1 cars are supposed to be driven hard and aggressively. If Lewis or Kimi would have gone harder on kerbs than others, they would either go off track or the car would lose performance coming out of corners and the lap time won't be fast. Lewis simply carries much more corner speed than Button when you look at their lap comparisons, and ultimately delivers a faster lapRon Dennis himself has said in the past that it was Mclaren's fault for not giving Kimi a reliable enough car to win the WDC. Mclaren has always had the lion's share of mechanical problems, right from the Hakkinen era to Kimi and now Lewis has also suffered the same. You can't say that all three drivers are car breakers.


Long story short. I think most of the top-drivers are championship material, but they need different things to go their way to achieve it and Alonso proved that there is no such driver as one, who would win in any case. They all need the correct circumstances to make most of their strengths and to avoid their weaknesses.

Agreed. I truly believe Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel showed the form of their life in 2012. While luck made it easier for some, it made it much harder for others at different points. In the end, reliability, teamwork and a good driver was the winning combination. Most of the knowledgeable F1 fans I know still consider Alonso and Lewis to be superior, but their conclusion could also be affected by annoyance over Vettel and Red Bull winning all the time. IMO Alonso and Lewis are better, but by a small margin. I have no way to prove it, but that is why it is what it is, an opinion.

[CaptainRaiden]

Rubbish :laugh:
This "poll' must have been taken after "The Boss" announced his move to Mercedes, and it affected some butt hurt UK fans :rolleyes:

I was thinking about the same thing. Maybe in 2011 Jenson would have earned it, but not in 2012, not by a long shot.

Last time I checked, Lewis is British, or did he change his nationality to German by moving to Mercedes as well? :D

I'm guessing they were just looking for any way to give an award to Button. Freaking joke.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Well said, Cap'n :)

BTW, about drivers' personalities. We should keep in mind that what we get to see on TV is often not very representative of their real nature. Why Vettel has chosen to be obnoxious, while in reality he is a very likeable and funny guy remains anybodies guess. I would hazard a guess that the influence of Dr. Marko isn't a very positive one.
Hamilton has done himself no favours with 2011 and also Alonso had his moments this year, like throwing the hat of Vettel to the side like a petulant child in Abu Dhabi. Guess media pressure, people constantly brown-nosing them does that to people.

[donKey jote]

Alonso is also more respected now than in 2005 and 2006, when many people though that he won due to better reliability.
Nah... he won due to Renault/Michelin cheating ;) :andrea:

[MrJan]

I think perhaps the voters think the same way you do if what you are saying is your true opinion. You are suggesting Lewis 'always' acts in a stupid manner and spends the 'whole time' blaming someone else for the faults. That isn't what happens though is it? You have just exaggerated a couple of incidents to form an opinion of his character and if others do the same, its no wonder we get shallow opinions influencing a poll which should really be based on performance and achievement. I wouldn't form an opinion on you Mr Jan based on your last post because I'm sure you are a nice guy usually. ;)

I suppose your right, when Lewis wins he doesn't usually blame anyone else ;) If this award was based on acheivement then how would it differ from the WDC? You have to take into account personality and people's opinion.

Anyway Lewis doesn't moan 100% of the time, it was just a figure of speech, but I certainly get the feeling that he's never far away from criticising someone. I'm a big fan of his driving, behind Alonso I think he's probably the best driver on the grid, but surely you have to agree that his mouth and attitude have let him down a number of times? I think the best way to describe it is immature/naive, although I don't think that can be said to be as a result of youth anymore. Jenson on the other hand is an absolute gent, and you can't deny his driving skill and how fair he is on the track. And do you really expect people to ignore all of that when they cast their vote? Because I certainly don't.

[The Black Knight]

Well said, Cap'n :)

BTW, about drivers' personalities. We should keep in mind that what we get to see on TV is often not very representative of their real nature. Why Vettel has chosen to be obnoxious, while in reality he is a very likeable and funny guy remains anybodies guess. I would hazard a guess that the influence of Dr. Marko isn't a very positive one.
Hamilton has done himself no favours with 2011 and also Alonso had his moments this year, like throwing the hat of Vettel to the side like a petulant child in Abu Dhabi. Guess media pressure, people constantly brown-nosing them does that to people.

LOL Is this what you're talking about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B80Lj6va1YA

For real? If so, then man, you're description is so over dramatic it's hilarious.

[dj_bytedisaster]

LOL Is this what you're talking about?

Fernando Alonso Threw Vettel 3rd Place Cap Away - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B80Lj6va1YA)

For real? If so, then man, you're description is so over dramatic it's hilarious.

It's a minor detail, but it adds up. There have been several instances where he didn't show his best side. (twitter nonsense, Trash talking in the final stretch of the season, declaring himself one of the greats at the Ferrari event). It's merely the one situation that kept stuck in my memory, because I never saw such thing before and it truly looked like he threw it - not because it was the wrong one - but because, who was going to wear it. Most drivers manage to keep a certain respect for their opponents. I could never imagine such a gesture happen between Schumacher and Hakkinen.

[rjbetty]

People also tend to forget that he's the only one, who ever finished a STR higher than 7.

2007 Chinese Grand Prix

6
18
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/03/Flag_of_Italy.svg/22px-Flag_of_Italy.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy) Vitantonio Liuzzi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitantonio_Liuzzi)
Toro Rosso (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuderia_Toro_Rosso)-Ferrari (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuderia_Ferrari)
56
+1:13.673
11
3


Just to be a nuisance and point out Liuzzi's result in China 2007. :D

I just read the entire thread through, and that quote was the main thing I remembered. I guess I have OCD, but I prefer to say I have an eye for detail. :D

[dj_bytedisaster]

Ok, I missed one. Good eye there, sir (or is that madam?) :D But apart from that the STR has been nowhere and never mind that his team mate was two places ahead of him ;)

[CaptainRaiden]

Formula 1 drivers feature at BRDC awards - GPUpdate.net (http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/288241/formula-1-drivers-feature-at-brdc-awards/)

I'm guessing the judges at these awards actually saw Formula 1 this year.


Jenson on the other hand is an absolute gent, and you can't deny his driving skill and how fair he is on the track. And do you really expect people to ignore all of that when they cast their vote? Because I certainly don't.

The award is "Driver" of the year, not absolute gent of the year or fairy godmother of the year. As far as driving is concerned, Button has himself conceded that this was his worst year by far. If you look at the Canadian GP this year, it doesn't even look like Lewis and Jenson are driving the same car. How he got "British Competition Driver of the Year" is beyond me. And not just me, but you should look at the comments of Mclaren fans on their Facebook page. It's an outrage. I'm guessing the Autosport readers who voted for Button either:

1. Are some sour British fans who are mad at Lewis for leaving a British team and joining a German rival.

2. Only saw the opening GP and a handful of other races and the points table at the end of the year.

3. Find Button very handsome, and their hard-ons for him affected the way they voted.

[The Black Knight]

It's a minor detail, but it adds up. There have been several instances where he didn't show his best side. (twitter nonsense, Trash talking in the final stretch of the season, declaring himself one of the greats at the Ferrari event). It's merely the one situation that kept stuck in my memory, because I never saw such thing before and it truly looked like he threw it - not because it was the wrong one - but because, who was going to wear it. Most drivers manage to keep a certain respect for their opponents. I could never imagine such a gesture happen between Schumacher and Hakkinen.

It doesn't even qualify to be counted as a gesture.

Did you see what Alonso did on the podium when Vettel was receiving his trophy? He just stood there and started, like, banging his hands together. The nerve. That's a gesture ;)

[CaptainRaiden]

Mercedes in Brackley is about as British as Fish 'n Chips so if a minority of fans feel that way then they don't know much about F1. As far as I am concerned Lewis is going to yet another British team and I'm looking forward to reading about him in my local paper as Mercedes and Marussia are the local teams from my home town where no German is spoken lol.

I believe it's not the location of the factory, but the nationality of the marquee it's under that's important. Mercedes-Benz, with all intents and purposes, is a German brand, regardless of where their F1 cars are built. When Mercedes win, it will be the German national anthem played, not the British one. From 2013 onwards, Lewis will be on Mercedes' payroll, very much a German employer. :D

And while Bruce Mclaren was a New Zealander, the current Mclaren team is a 100% British team. Don't you think that for the casual fan, it's like Lewis is leaving his home turf to go join a foreign team? If I was a nationalist prick, this would certainly sway my opinion.

Red Bull's factory is in Milton Keynes, but they are considered an Austrian team. All Renault F1 cars were made in Enstone, but history will show a French team won the WCC in 2005-2006.

I don't think apart from the locals, or a very few F1 geeks, any casual fan is even aware that almost all of F1's top teams are based in Britain. I certainly wouldn't expect a lot of Autosport readers to know this. For all we know, many of them might think Mercedes-Benz F1 cars are made in Stuttgart.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I'm very proud of British engineering especially in F1 and there is a reason why teams choose to base themselves here. Red Bull and Mercedes could have relocated themselves back in the country where the money comes from but chose not to. Most of out football teams are no longer British as they are owned by the Russian's, American's, Malaysians etc. The history books will also show they are foreign teams but fans here don't take that view because they are still based here. Its a weird thing funding.

The reason, why teams are based on her Majesty's Island is, because the factories already are there ;) Most of the teams we have today descended from British teams. Mercedes->Brawn->Honda->BAR->Tyrell ;) RB->Jaguar->Steward.
Those that were built from scratch usually based themselves in their home nation, like Sauber in Hinwil. Toyota was based in Cologne, Germany, because that's where the european base of TRD is and BMW built its engines in Germany, too.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but English Engineering has lost a wee bit of its old glory and the fact that many teams are still based in Britain is, that it would be stupid to sink millions into building a new factory, if there is a perfectly servicable one you can take over.

[CaptainRaiden]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but English Engineering has lost a wee bit of its old glory and the fact that many teams are still based in Britain is, that it would be stupid to sink millions into building a new factory, if there is a perfectly servicable one you can take over.

I'll have to disagree with you there, and I'm not British. While it's true that teams do not relocate factories to save money, but British engineering is still a major factor. The best designer in F1 currently is British, and cars with heavy British engineering influence have won 7 out of the last 8 F1 championships. They have every reason to be proud.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I'll have to disagree with you there, and I'm not British. While it's true that teams do not relocate factories to save money, but British engineering is still a major factor. The best designer in F1 currently is British, and cars with heavy British engineering influence have won 7 out of the last 8 F1 championships. They have every reason to be proud.

In my opinion British Engineering is not superior to that of other nations. Yes, there is a certain convenience to being based in britain, because most of the teams are or are descended from British teams and with so many teams based there, suppliers are likely to base themselves not too far from them. But quoting Newey as the proof that British Engineering is a major factor is not ringing true. The Mercedes engines are built mainly be german engineers and the Italians are the major factor behind the Ferrari unit, so the most british engine is the Cosworth, because I would hazard a guess that quite a few French have a hand in building the Renault. Yes, many Engineers still come from Britain, because due to the long heritage on F1 teams in Britain there is still the best infrasstructure, but the times, when F1 was a predominently British affair are long gone. While still many technical directors are British, they are only the 'heads'. The Engineering teams are much more diverse.
I think if British Engineering was so more brilliant than anything else, the UK still would have a car industry. But that is now mainly owned by Americans, Chinese and Germans. The last truly great achievements of British engineering that come to mind are Concorde and the Harrier and both are not only quite a wee bit in the past but - at least in the case of Concorde - cooperations with other European partners. ;)

[dj_bytedisaster]

When Mercedes decided to relocate their motorsport engine division, they pumped money into Ilmor in Brixworth, Northamptonshire because the engineering base was already there. They didn't base it at the Nurburgring or Hamburg to keep it German. The Mercedes engine we see now in most F1 cars is a British designed Ilmor engine with a Mercedes badge slapped on the top. Same with Le Man's. If the British Engineering industry has lost its glory then many of these companies would have pulled out by now. Prices have been driven up in the UK and its not exactly the cheapest place to get things made.

Several things are not quite accurate, here ;)
The only 'rebadged' Illmor engines, were the ones in the Sauber. By the time Mercedes went to McLaren, Mercedes was already a 25% stakeholder. In 2002 they upped it to 55% and in 2005 Roger Penske and Mario Illien (both not very British btw.) bought everything that was not connected to the F1 engines business and re-founded Illmor. Since 2005 the company has been run by AMG, which is Mercedes' primary tuner and de-facto Motorsports department. The Company Mercedes AMG High Performance Powertrains Ltd. is 100% owned by Mercedes and is run by ze Germans ;) Illien and Morgan have founded it, but have had no hand in it since 2005.
Btw. I don't think that labour prices play any role in it. Germany has even higher labour costs than Britain, but still a lot of Mercedes development is done in Germany and when BMW owned Sauber, everything that concerned engine development was done exclusively in Germany. And Ferrari seem to go quite well in Italy, too :D

[dj_bytedisaster]

And Britain does pretty well with its F1 engines :D

PS: You seem to think I am trying to prove Britain is the best at this sort of thing which I am not.

Well, I admit it sounded like it at some points. The thing is that such things are random anyway. Why does Germany have so many high-profile car companies? Because we're especially good at it or even better than others? Hardly. It just developed there because the car was invented in Germanyland. In fact the Japanese wiped the floor with us in the 70s with their cheap Datsuns and Toyota's and people realized in awe that a car can indeed start if it is mildly freezing :D
I think the reason behind so much of F1 being based in Britain is that it all developed out of the Garagiste movement. Now that most factories and suppliers are based there, it is just the most convenient place to set up shop. Ferrari and Sauber are living proof that it isn't a must - it's just the easiest way to get things started.

[CaptainRaiden]

In my opinion British Engineering is not superior to that of other nations. Yes, there is a certain convenience to being based in britain, because most of the teams are or are descended from British teams and with so many teams based there, suppliers are likely to base themselves not too far from them. But quoting Newey as the proof that British Engineering is a major factor is not ringing true. The Mercedes engines are built mainly be german engineers and the Italians are the major factor behind the Ferrari unit, so the most british engine is the Cosworth, because I would hazard a guess that quite a few French have a hand in building the Renault. Yes, many Engineers still come from Britain, because due to the long heritage on F1 teams in Britain there is still the best infrasstructure, but the times, when F1 was a predominently British affair are long gone. While still many technical directors are British, they are only the 'heads'. The Engineering teams are much more diverse.

I don't think I said British engineering is superior or is dominant. But you cannot deny that it is a major factor in Formula 1. True that the major competitive engines are built by the Germans, Italians and the French, but then again, Formula 1 cars don't just run on engines alone in a straight line. Most of the wind tunnel aerodynamic work, suspension and engine tuning, exhaust work, build and finish is done in British factories under a British design team. The three best F1 cars this year were designed under the technical guidance of Adrian Newey, Paddy Lowe and Pat Fry, all of them British.

I'm not saying one nation is better than the other based on just the work done in Formula 1, that would be ridiculous. But F1 championships have long been influenced by British engineering, continues to do so, and that's a fact, whether you like it or not. As a non-British person, it doesn't pain me to admit it.

Back on topic, Autosport thinks Lewis isn't British. :p

[Knock-on]

Since 2005 the company has been run by AMG, which is Mercedes' primary tuner and de-facto Motorsports department. The Company Mercedes AMG High Performance Powertrains Ltd. is 100% owned by Mercedes and is run by ze Germans ;) Illien and Morgan have founded it, but have had no hand in it since 2005.

I think that the business was 'Branded' AMG and is still at Brixworth. It is owned by Mercedes but operated out of the UK.

The only team that has maintained top flight success outside of the UK is Ferrri and even then it needed a stint from Barnard in Guildford (UK) 1987 to get them out of a funk and Ferrari bought John a second office in Guildford in 93 that got Ferrari right up the development cycle and took Schumy within a hairs breath of their first championship before Ferrari brought design in house.

Like it or not, the UK is the only F1 Superpower in the world.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Like it or not, the UK is the only F1 Superpower in the world.

Oh, I like the wording of that. *lol*

[AndyL]

Well yes, quite. Likewise, if the Mercedes engine is designed and built by Germans as has been contended, then why are they doing it so far from home in Northamptonshire?
The Mercedes engine is as German as the Red Bull car is Austrian.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Well yes, quite. Likewise, if the Mercedes engine is designed and built by Germans as has been contended, then why are they doing it so far from home in Northamptonshire?
The Mercedes engine is as German as the Red Bull car is Austrian.

Well, if the chassis is built in England, it would be a logistical nightmare to leave engine building in Germany, wouldn't it. Doesn't keep them from sending the Germans to Blighty though. BMW built it's engines in Germany, but only because Hinwil wasn't as far away as England is and there's no canal in between ;)

[dj_bytedisaster]

Makes you wonder how Alonso won his first two WDC's with his chassis made in England and the engine made in Southern France doesn't it? Its not always a winning combination to have engine and team situated right next to each other, but there is a reason why certain resources are used. Another example is parts of the Ferrari road cars being made in Liverpool and exported back to Italy.

Apples and Oranges, sir. First of all, Renault didn't have an ready-to-go engine factory to take over in Blighty, while Mercedes just bought off Illmors facilities and Mario Illien trundled off to refound his company elsewhere. I'm pretty sure that they would have liked to be able to buy off a plant that was nearer to their chassis manufacturing, because the transport costs are certainly higher and the big distance also adds a lot of overhead.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Good answer, I'm pretty much right then.

And I'm right that not all the world revolves around Blighty. It is indeed possible to build top-notch F1 stuff outside her Majesty's empire. We both win this argument, me thinks :D

[kfzmeister]

The irony in all this discussion is that today's British F1 engineering is indeed tops, yet they all learned it by watching Mercedes destroy the field in the late 30's with their supercharged cars. They were the first with super efficient pitstops as well.
It all comes around eventually :D

[Knock-on]

No. Obama. :)

[CaptainRaiden]

Like it or not, the UK is the only F1 Superpower in the world.

Too bad your drivers aren't winning much. :p

[Knock-on]

And in the last 5 years, it's been either a British built team, driver or a combintion of the 2 that has won the championships :D

Best not dispute 2007 ;)

[dj_bytedisaster]

All bow to the magnificence of her majesty's subjects.

[CaptainRaiden]

And in the last 5 years, it's been either a British built team, driver or a combintion of the 2 that has won the championships :D

True, but Finns, Germans and a Spaniard have won 13 out of the last 15 championships. :p

You need more Lewis'. ;)

[Knock-on]

True, but Finns, Germans and a Spaniard have won 13 out of the last 15 championships. :p

You need more Lewis'. ;)

Or Jenson :p

From a drivers point of view, we do seem to get champions from certain countries as you rightly point out.

The UK has had 10 different champions, Finland and Brazil 3 with Germany, Australia, Austria, USA and Italy have 2 a piece. 6 other contries have a championship a piece.

There have been 64 Constructors Champions over 63 years (one year was shared). There were 9 Championships up to 1959 which were won by non British based teams. However, of the 55 championships SINCE 1959, no team apart from Ferrari has won a Championship based out of the UK. For the record, between 1959 nd the end of the millenium, 41 years, only 6 titles went oversees from good old blighty.

In the 13 Titles of the new Millinium, Ferrari and Schumacher have been much more involved(with a little help from Kimi and the FIA) with 6 titles built in cars designed and operated out of the UK but still the 7 other titles went to UK based teams.

All of this tends to back up the claim that the UK is a centre of excellence for F1. While the amount of drivers championships is less so with 14 titles going to 10 drivers while the closest is 10 titles going to 2 drivers for Germany, the amount of constructors titles going to UK based teams is comprehensive with 43 out of 64 titles going to UK based and designed teams.

The UK is the only F1 superpower. Ferrari are an excellent F1 company and Germany, S America and Finland produces a few very successful drivers but the UK is the home of F1.

[CaptainRaiden]

Nobody is denying British engineering is a major factor in F1, like I have mentioned in my previous post.

But more recently British drivers haven't tasted much success WDC wise. The only real top tier driver you have is Lewis, capable of winning against other drivers in equal performance machinery. (As evidenced in 2012)

[CaptainRaiden]

The same could be said of other nationalities though. There is only really one Fin, German, and Spaniard presently on the grid who can challenge for the championship and drivers we tend to rate. Of course there are drivers further down the grid who maybe can't show their true potential in worse cars.

There are lots of talented drivers up and down the field. I'm talking about WDC winners in the recent decade.

[CaptainRaiden]

In that case Germany has two, Britain has two, Spain has one, and Finland has one. Not bad for all countries in that respect.

You can look at it that way if that makes you feel good. :p

[Anders Grøndal]

Agree, it`s strange Hamilton did not win the english award.

[CaptainRaiden]

Well how are you looking at it? You are talking about driver nationalities and the number of championships, that's what you stated. I stated the amount of drivers who have won in the last decade and they are facts. A simplistic way of looking at it but that is what you were saying.

I didn't state numbers of wins because then we go down the complicated route of team abilities to factor in. Ferrari or on a national level 'Italy' won 5 championships in a row with the same driver. They have also delivered another win with a Finnish driver. The rest since 2000 have been won by British teams with 2 of them won using British drivers. I have to shrug my shoulders I'm afraid as I don't see your point?

I'm talking about the number of WDCs won by British drivers, in fact even looking at Lewis and Jenson separately, because Autosport doesn't seem to think Lewis is British. *Facepalm*

Of course, ifs, buts, coulda shouldas would all come into play, and make for a very lengthy conversation, but the overall stats say otherwise.

[Mia 01]

Why didn`t Jenson got the award last year when he clearly beated Lewis in points?
And this year he finished the WDC with only two points less than Lewis.

Jenson deservs the price!!!

[CaptainRaiden]

Why didn`t Jenson got the award last year when he clearly beated Lewis in points?
And this year he finished the WDC with only two points less than Lewis.

Jenson deservs the price!!!

:laugh:

As always, Mia brings the voice of reason.

[Knock-on]

I'm really struggleing with you on this one Captain, me ole mucker.

Are you saying in the 3 years we haven't won many WDC?

Being a bit selective aren't you?

In the last 3 years we have won 0% of WDC. There, you're right. ;)

In the last 5 years we've won 40% of WDC championships. Not too shabby.

The fact that we are the only country to have drivers winning championships against the mighty Red Bull is an example of our success at turning out world class champions. Most of us suspect that if Lewis was in the second Bull, it would be 100% again to the brits ;)

[The Black Knight]

Why didn`t Jenson got the award last year when he clearly beated Lewis in points?
And this year he finished the WDC with only two points less than Lewis.

Jenson deservs the price!!!

He did get the award last year :)

[kfzmeister]

As far as driver's championships, German's have absolutely dominated the last decade.
(Hard for me to say as German, since i don't care for either :( )

[Knock-on]

Can't argue with that. Germans have taken 5 of the last 10 drivers championships.

However, if McLaren get a bit more realiability, a driver manges to extract the pace that I'm sure exists at Mercedes or Ferrari a touch more pace, I think that will change. Just one of these need to happen and Seb will not win another IMHO.

[CaptainRaiden]

I'm really struggleing with you on this one Captain, me ole mucker.

Are you saying in the 3 years we haven't won many WDC?

Being a bit selective aren't you?

In the last 3 years we have won 0% of WDC. There, you're right. ;)

In the last 5 years we've won 40% of WDC championships. Not too shabby.

The fact that we are the only country to have drivers winning championships against the mighty Red Bull is an example of our success at turning out world class champions. Most of us suspect that if Lewis was in the second Bull, it would be 100% again to the brits ;)

Sure, British drivers have won many WDCs in the past, but more recently it hasn't quite been that way. In fact since the 90s, British WDCs are just one ahead of Finland, 4 to 3. Sure, Schumacher and Vettel are responsible for screwing up those numbers, but before Lewis, you just didn't have brilliant representatives of your driving force.

While your engineering (as far as Formula 1 goes) is still top notch, you're just not producing enough good drivers as before. Based on their 2012 form, IMO Lewis is the only top tier British driver in Formula 1 today.

[Tazio]

Why didn`t Jenson got the award last year when he clearly beated Lewis in points?Why don't you do a little research before putting your foot in your pie-hole my man? :idea: :dork: :s mash: :wave: ]Button picked up the ‘British Competition Driver of the Year’ award in recognition of his three Grand Prix victories and twelve podium finishes he earned in a year where he finished best of the rest behind the all-conquering Sebastian Vettel.
2011 AUTOSPORT Awards winners honoured (http://richardsf1.com/2011/12/05/2011-autosport-awards-winners-honoured/)[/QUOTE]

[dj_bytedisaster]

While your engineering (as far as Formula 1 goes) is still top notch, you're just not producing enough good drivers as before. Based on their 2012 form, IMO Lewis is the only top tier British driver in Formula 1 today.

It's a matter of dynamics. Before the 80s there had only been Graf Berghe von Trips and Jochen Maas, who had shown that German drivers could do anything of notice in F1. There were a couple drivers in the 80s (Bellof, Schneider, Winkelhock), but they were mainly in minnow teams and Belloff died too early.
Even in the early nineties Bernie said what F1 needed was a black driver, a lady driver and a German champion. As always in life, be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
In the late 80s, Mercedes started a young drivers program. The result of that were Schumacher, Frentzen and Wendlinger, Fässler, Franchitti and Heidfeld. Mercedes even paid most of the money for Schumacher's seat at Jordan.
Well, we all know how it went. Schumacher went on to 7 titles and he set off an avalanche. Kids were swamping the karting clubs. Notable members of that generation are Hülkenberg, Glock, Sutil, Winkelhock, Lauda, Rosberg and Vettel. We had times in the last decade where we had five Germans on the grid, while before the Germans were as rare as Jamaicans in F1. What Britain needs is a clear star driver, one who gets multiple titles and the kiddies will return to karting by the ship load. Look at the Spaniards - we see more of them lately, don't we.
Give it two more Lewis titles and the Brits will be back in numbers with young talent.

[tfp]

It's a matter of dynamics. Before the 80s there had only been Graf Berghe von Trips and Jochen Maas, who had shown that German drivers could do anything of notice in F1. There were a couple drivers in the 80s (Bellof, Schneider, Winkelhock), but they were mainly in minnow teams and Belloff died too early.
Even in the early nineties Bernie said what F1 needed was a black driver, a lady driver and a German champion. As always in life, be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
In the late 80s, Mercedes started a young drivers program. The result of that were Schumacher, Frentzen and Wendlinger, Fässler, Franchitti and Heidfeld. Mercedes even paid most of the money for Schumacher's seat at Jordan.
Well, we all know how it went. Schumacher went on to 7 titles and he set off an avalanche. Kids were swamping the karting clubs. Notable members of that generation are Hülkenberg, Glock, Sutil, Winkelhock, Lauda, Rosberg and Vettel. We had times in the last decade where we had five Germans on the grid, while before the Germans were as rare as Jamaicans in F1. What Britain needs is a clear star driver, one who gets multiple titles and the kiddies will return to karting by the ship load. Look at the Spaniards - we see more of them lately, don't we.
Give it two more Lewis titles and the Brits will be back in numbers with young talent.

Speaking of Spaniards, I havent checked the progress of Sainz jr, I am very much looking forward to seeing him at top level.

And, no, I diddnt agree with autosports descision either!

[The Black Knight]

Formula 1 team bosses vote Fernando Alonso as best driver of 2012 - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104812)

Well it appears you have to go to team bosses to get a reasonably accurate picture of the drivers this year. I'd personally have rated Hamilton ahead of Vettel myself but it's good to see him get some recognition for a season where the championship slipping from his was completely out of his control.I don't understand how Felipe got into the top ten but undoubtedly I don't think anyone can really argue against who sits in the number 1 slot:

1. Fernando Alonso 269
2. Sebastian Vettel 198
3. Lewis Hamilton 177
4. Kimi Raikkonen 176
5. Jenson Button 104
6. Mark Webber 66
7. Nico Hulkenberg 50
8. Nico Rosberg 30
9. Sergio Perez 30
10. Felipe Massa 27

[truefan72]

Indeed. I would agree with the number one with Hamilton a whisker behind Fernando in second place. After the season Lewis has had its great to see him appreciated and its clear even the team bosses see this. If Lewis drives like that every season from now on, he's got no worries about another title.

indeed :up:

[AndyL]

Formula 1 team bosses vote Fernando Alonso as best driver of 2012 - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104812)

Well it appears you have to go to team bosses to get a reasonably accurate picture of the drivers this year. I'd personally have rated Hamilton ahead of Vettel myself but it's good to see him get some recognition for a season where the championship slipping from his was completely out of his control.I don't understand how Felipe got into the top ten but undoubtedly I don't think anyone can really argue against who sits in the number 1 slot:

1. Fernando Alonso 269
2. Sebastian Vettel 198
3. Lewis Hamilton 177
4. Kimi Raikkonen 176
5. Jenson Button 104
6. Mark Webber 66
7. Nico Hulkenberg 50
8. Nico Rosberg 30
9. Sergio Perez 30
10. Felipe Massa 27

Exactly the same top 5 as James Allen picked:
My Top 5 Drivers of 2012James Allen on F1 (http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/12/my-top-5-drivers-of-2012/)

[kfzmeister]

Indeed. I would agree with the number one with Hamilton a whisker behind Fernando in second place. After the season Lewis has had its great to see him appreciated and its clear even the team bosses see this. If Lewis drives like that every season from now on, he's got no worries about another title.

Looks like he's a whisker behind Vettel, not Alonso. No question about his abilities, yet moving to Mercedes leaves some doubt about whether another title will come. At least with Mercedes.

[kfzmeister]

Formula 1 team bosses vote Fernando Alonso as best driver of 2012 - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104812)

Well it appears you have to go to team bosses to get a reasonably accurate picture of the drivers this year. I'd personally have rated Hamilton ahead of Vettel myself but it's good to see him get some recognition for a season where the championship slipping from his was completely out of his control.I don't understand how Felipe got into the top ten but undoubtedly I don't think anyone can really argue against who sits in the number 1 slot:

1. Fernando Alonso 269
2. Sebastian Vettel 198
3. Lewis Hamilton 177
4. Kimi Raikkonen 176
5. Jenson Button 104
6. Mark Webber 66
7. Nico Hulkenberg 50
8. Nico Rosberg 30
9. Sergio Perez 30
10. Felipe Massa 27

Was waiting for this to come out. Allen's blog mirrors this, so what else can one say about Alonso being number one? We all knew it. I'd say he got robbed at the FIA awards.