Time for some nostalgy - DC, GF, JT, NH, RB, RS.

[jens]

When I joined this forum (2006), those drivers were still very much active in F1. But by now the F1 careers of all of them have come to an end, in 2012 they have not been racing in F1 (last of them retired in 2011). And it is unlikely we are going to see any of them in F1 again. They guys I am talking about, in alphabetical order: Barrichello, Coulthard, Fisichella, Heidfeld, Ralf Schumacher, Trulli.

Back in the day there was some discussion about these drivers on the forums. At that time they were still active, but already quite experienced and many questioned if they should keep their seats at all. But by now the momentary emotions are over, dust has sort of settled down and we can reflect on their careers in retrospect - this time on the whole. What are your thoughts? How would you sum up their careers?

None of them were world champions, but they had long careers and were sort of a natural, integral part of F1. Always there or thereabouts in competing for points and podiums. When I think of 'noughties' in F1, I can't help but recall them a lot. In addition to World Champions and title contenders they were those, who made the decade.

Perhaps you can express some of your memories. What are the first things to come to your mind about those drivers? Perhaps you can share some interesting moments, emotions regarding them.
:)

[Malbec]

All of the drivers you named promised to be great talents but none managed to fulfil their potential.

I have to say that by far the most interesting driver for me was Ralf.

I read a fascinating interview with Ralf after his retirement. He hated the press and always kept his barriers up except for this one interview which gave an insight into his personality. He obviously found life difficult growing up as being 'the little brother'. I'm not even sure he actually truly enjoyed racing unlike his brother. He didn't seem to be able to take on board that he was actually quite a handy driver in his time once one got past the name. One thing he was open about was that his earnings were far in excess of his talent and that that was one thing he knew he'd done well on though again he didn't seem proud. I thought he was a truly conflicted and complex individual which I found intriguing.

I can't say I was ever a fan but the one race that sticks in my memory was when he and his brother scored a 1-2 the weekend after their mother's death. Very poignant.

[wedge]

All got what they deserved, apart from Nick who probably deserved a race win - arguably 2008 Canadian GP.

Rubens and DC were consumate #2's; Nick was solid, dependable but nothing more it seems; the others I only see disappointment due to their inconsistencies.

Ralf peaked at Williams it was great disappointment going to Toyota - taking the money knowing how his career was going to pan out, knowing he would not at least get a Williams-esque car again.

Trulli - great quali driver but inconsistent racer.

Fisi - great for midfield teams but great disappointment at Renault. Poor race craft in 2005 Japanese GP gifted Kimi the win; winning Malaysia 2006 was very scruffy cf. Maldonado's maiden win this year who drove like an F1 pro should.

[Rudy Tamasz]

I believe in Lady Luck. I think once you refuse her gift, your racing career is over. DC handed two successive race wins to Hakkinen in 1997 and 1998 while in the lead and from that point on he has never been a title contender. Nick let Kubica win and he wasn't to become a winner ever after. Rubens' surrenders to Schumi are too numerous to mention. They all blew their chances.

[rjbetty]

I always thought Barrichello and Trulli in particular were very underrated.

Coulthard I felt was a little overrated, especially by the British press/Autosport. People always used to speak about his so called terrible luck, but I don't see how being in a top car for 10 years was unlucky. Most of his career was spent in Adrian Newey cars. Coulthard was also consistently rated as being better than Barrichello which I disagree with.

Fisi is my most favourite driver ever. He beat the more fancied Ralf at Jordan in a very similar way to how Ricciardo bested Vergne this year - though it must be said they both had a half-season extra experience in a bottom team over their young team-mate.

Ralf was underrated because he had a horrible personality, but he was actually very good and despite what JPM fanboys will tell you, he compared VERY well with the Colombian driver.

Heidfeld was also underrated because of his nature and driving style. I was disappointed with Mark Webber's catty remarks against Nick in 2005, just because Nick was outpointing him fair and square. Very unpleasant and unlike Mark indeed.



In a bit more detail:
Jarno Trulli - I was only getting into F1 in 1997 so don't recall much other than he qualified around 15th in a Minardi on his debut? People weren't impressed but that looks darn impressive to me. He easily beat the actually very good Katayama. At Prost he qualified 6th at France, finished 4th at Hockenheim and famously led Austria from 3rd on the grid, despite having a developing engine problem throughout the race. For my first full season in '98 I noticed he was unable to score points though he often seemed good against Panis. I felt sorry for him as he deserved much better. I remember him running 5th at that crazy Spa race, but he must have been passed by Diniz at some point cos he ended 6th. This result made me so happy, to see him finally score a point for Prost - their only one of the year.

I remember reading in F1 racing in a short interview with Alain Prost before the 1999 season started that he felt 3rd in the WCC was a reasonable target. This made me LOL - it wasn't quite as hilarious as Jackie Stewart predicting, with a straight face, that his team could win a race that year - boy did we all eat our words! Anyway, it was nice to see Trulli qualify a decent 12th in Melbourne and run as high as 3rd before retiring. His drive to 6th in Spain in a race of little attrition was remarkable, as was his qualifying 7th in Monaco, well over 1sec ahead of Panis. In fact, Trulli actually very quietly and diligently qualified in the top 10 almost more often than not, and this went largely unnoticed. It was so good to see Jarno score his first podium, tenaciously holding off Barrichello at the Nurburgring. I was disappointed at Alain Prost's bitter reaction that Jarno was lucky. I'm glad Jarno got out of that team in that case.

Much was promised as he replaced Damon Hill at Jordan for the dawn of a new era in 2000. I predicted he could win a race and score around 26-32pts. In testing, he looked like he could be quicker than Frentzen (who was on brilliant form). This was very exciting indeed. But sadly the season was a disaster as Jordan were unreliable and slow in races, while McLaren and Ferrari were too consistent. He only scored 6pts and no podiums; This seemed to affect him very badly. It wasn't all bad news as he qualified on the front row at drivers' circuits Monaco and Spa. In the former he ended up leading David Coulthard and despite what many may say, there is absolutely NO reason why Jarno couldn't have held on to the finish and won. Sadly he was robbed by mechanical failure - a fate all too common on Jarno's career.

2001 saw Trulli dominate Frentzen in qualifying in particular. In fact, Trulli was only outqualified twice all year! He was a top 6 regular in what was not a top 3 car. His race pace was also quicker than Frentzen, but again the car was weaker in races and still unreliable. He was more consistent in bagging 12pts but still no podium. I firmly believe Jarno was the 2nd best driver in qualifying in 2001.

2002 saw Trulli finally fulfill his destiny by joining manager Flavio Briatore at Renault. His first half of the season was nothing special, but once it was announced Jenson was on his way out, Trulli picked up and ended his season strongly with 4th at Monza (from 12th on the grid) Martin Brundle was asked to choose his driver of the day, to which he replied "I never thought I'd say this, but Jarno Trulli". Trulli followed that up with a good 5th at Indy; Did anyone ever notice that Jarno was actually a bit of an Indy specalist?

2003 was disappointing in terms of race results compared with Fernando Alonso. But his qualifying, when analysed, was electric. Mark Hughes wrote an article in Autosport around 2005/6 about the best qualifiers in F1 history. As I remember, Jarno was rated 7th ever! Ahead of Schumacher and Hakkinen. Hughes wrote that Fernando Alonso (champion at the time) was so stunned by Trulli's qualifying speed he simply shrugged his shoulders and said "what can I do?" Trulli scored a noteworthy podium at Hockenheim ahead of Alonso, despite being ill; He really did look very pale and sick on the podium.

However, this time was the height of the Trulli train era, in which Jarno was widely regarded as a poor and slow racer. This view was strengthened by races like Hungary where he was lapped by his winner team-mate Alonso en-route to 7th. Unknown to us however, this day was a turning point. Being lapped by Alonso really woke Trulli up once and for all. For Indy Jarno was again quickest in Friday qualifying before finishing 4th on Michelin tyres in a wet race. Suzuka however was the most impressive. From the back of the grid he fought his way up to a strong 5th, which had people talking.

2004 was to be a great season. It started off slowly with a poor 7th in Melbourne, followed by 5th and 4th next time out. The race that seemed to change something was Spain where Trulli beat Alonso to 3rd in a straight fight. Then the day of days at Monaco - a truly outstanding pole, and his maiden win, in style the next day!

Now that Monaco qualifying lap is my one defining Trulli moment in all of history; it is something which I have deeply admired him for. One of my favourite writers Anthony Rowlinson wrote, in his poetically descriptive style style about Jarno's lap, describing it as "exquisitely beautiful" and equal to "the same amount of skill required to take two drawing pins, pushing them together at their points using only the index finger on the end of each pin, and keeping them held there". This interested me so much that I purchased a set of drawing pins, took two of them and tried it myself, only to find it was an extremely difficult task, almost impossible.

Now back then (2005ish), I myself was very serious about racing myself and was doing some karting myself, although at 21 I was too old for a serious career. I was so amazed by this story of Trulli that I determined in myself to achieve that level of skill. This is my abiding memory of Jarno Trulli and is why I find it distasteful that he was criticised so much and told to retire etc. Every time people dissed him, this lap and others like it is what I thought of. The man deserved respect.

2005 was probably his best season. I was very concerned pre season about Toyota's tyre wear, though excited that with 2 good drivers and Mike Gascoyne, Toyota could make a good leap forward. Starting 2nd in Melbourne was great but happened cos of qualifying being messed up by rain. Dropping to a result of 9th looked bad.

It was amazing therefore to see him repeat the front row feat in Malaysia - in the dry! He was obviously going to drop way back in the race right? I was astonished to see that he raced very strongly and kept up with Alonso well to actually finish in 2nd, scoring by far Toyota's best result, and their first podium!! More staggering was that he repeated this next time out in Bahrain. Jarno even entertained thoughts of a title challenge, seeing that he was 2nd at this time. In a weaker Imola race he still came 5th before scoring another podium at Barcelona. He was completely dominating Ralf. It was written that Jarno was getting paid 3 times less than Ralf even though he was 3 times faster! It was revealed recently that it was around this time (it's obvious) that Jean Todt approached Trulli with an offer to drive for his beloved Ferrari the following season. Jarno did the honourable thing and kept to his contract with Toyota. The cynicism of many internet morons is very disappointing in that they couldn't possibly imagine he would do this, when in fact it is very much in keeping with his character.

Jarno qualified 5th at the Nurburgring and IIRC he described his qualifying lap as his best ever. It was very unheralded compared to Monaco 2004, but it must have therefore ben even better than that! Looking at the times, he was a massive 0.4sec quicker than Ralf, who was very quick at that track... As with Alonso in 2003, Ralf Schumacher acknowledged that he simply was unable to match Jarno's qualifying speed. It seemed that he then went down the Didier Pironi route and sought every opportunity to bring Jarno down. As team leader, he had changes made to the car for what likely was the sole reason that it would harm Trulli's performance, and thus bring him below Ralf. This is what happened and as Nigel Roebuck said, it was an injustice that Ralf ended up 2pts ahead of Trulli.

This was the reason that Ralf had an edge on Trulli for the whole of 2006, but for 2007 Trulli asserted himself again though the car was poor. He scored a strong 6th place and helped put Ralf's career out of it's misery.

I didn't watch F1 after 2007 (and only sporadically in 2007) till the end of 2009 so can't say much, but I hear he scored a good 3rd in Magny-Cours in 2008, perhaps atoning for his 2004 last corner loss.

[rjbetty]

The Lotus/Caterham chapter may not have brought the success hoped for, but for those 2 years he very much deserved to be there. The whole time. there were cries for his retirement. But no-one would have done as good as job as Jarno. He may have been past his best, but he was still miles better than most, and the experience and technical/testing expertise he brought were invaluable. He was absolutely the right man for the job.

Somehow when he won at Monaco, I felt at the time that he would be like Alesi and it would be the only one - but he did it in style!



Whew I got carried away. I might say some more about the rest sometime. :)

[steveaki13]

Trulli was brilliant that day at Monaco in one of the best Monaco GP ever.

We had a brilliant race between, Trulli, Alonso, Button & Schumacher early on, then craziness of retirements and accidents then Heidfeld racing up the field in a slow Jordan. Then a final sprint between Trulli & Button and only 9 finishers. Trulli kept calm and was fastest all day. What a way to win your one and only race.

[rjbetty]

Trulli was brilliant that day at Monaco in one of the best Monaco GP ever.

We had a brilliant race between, Trulli, Alonso, Button & Schumacher early on, then craziness of retirements and accidents then Heidfeld racing up the field in a slow Jordan. Then a final sprint between Trulli & Button and only 9 finishers. Trulli kept calm and was fastest all day. What a way to win your one and only race.

I agree. I was happy to see Heidfeld take points for 7th but disappointed for Fisi. It looked like he was careless driving into the back of Coulthard, but the thick smoke made it almost impossible to see, and apparently he hit Coulthard at only 34mph...? What could you do? Given that Massa, who was almost 1sec slower than Fisi in qualifying finished 5th, Fisi could have been on for a pretty big result.

[steveaki13]

Its amazing really that going into DC that slowly could flip him over, but all that smoke it was amazing the whole track wasnt blocked like the 2005 Albers spin.

[rjbetty]

DAVID COULTHARD
When I watched my first proper F1 race, Argentina 1997, during the ITV build up, they spoke to a guy on the grid. I didn't know anybody except Damon Hill then, and needed someone to support for now. The guy they were speaking to seemed really nice and professional, as he was talking about his hopes from 10th on the grid. This was David Coulthard. It didn't go well as he was out at turn 1. Missed out badly in Canada, on for the win before the safety car. He did win Monza though, prompting ITV to run an advert to the tune of The Blue Danube "...and in Italy (Coulthard Coulthard), he won the Grand Prix! (Coulthard Coulthard)..." Does anyone remember that? I wish I could remember the words. I also liked the can-can-Coulthard advert after Monaco '98. ITV did some weird adverts back then; "This time, it's personal"? Err why?

In Jerez 1997 there was an infamous and unsporting incident that sadly took place: I am of course talking about Ron Dennis making Coulthard move over to give the win that he earned fair and square to Mika Hakkinen to help Mika's confidence and title aspirations for '98? What about Coulthard's?!! This is why I don't like it when Ron boasts about being "a racer". He is in fact the number 1 person in favour of the way F1 was in 2002 etc. The way he treated Bernoldi after Monaco 2001 stunk. Ken Tyrrell once said about Flav "I don't necessarily mind people who are in F1 for the business, and Flav is straight about not being a racer; it's the ones who say they're in it for the racing when you know they're not, who get me". I guess it's up to us to determine who he had in mind.

Sadly, Coulthard was fairly rubbish in '98 as the team was biased toward Mika. But I think David may have been too complacent, as shown by confidently betting the race on getting to the first corner 1st in Melbourne, only to find that Mika had been doing his homework in all areas. David did get the brunt of reliability problems though. He could have won maybe 7 races so the cards didn't fall particularly well.

1999 was even worse and he was extremely fortunate to keep his seat for 2000, only because Zonta had disappointed and Heidfeld was too untried. Eddie Irvine declared after Canada that his stock is going down at every race.

I didn't expect much from him in 2000, so it was a pleasant surprise to see how close he was to Mika in Brazil, winning Silverstone fair and square and blasting to 2nd in Spain with painful ribs from that bad plane crash. He then took pole at the Nurburgring, his first in 2 years. His driving had reached a new level. Jackie Stewart declared Coulthard could be world champion that year (surprise).

2001 was his best season yet, outperforming Mika all round (though Mika was past it - at 32!) but despite what people will say, I truly believe the McLaren was only about a tenth slower than the Ferrari on average - it was just Michael's brilliance that made the difference. DC did well to beat Barrichello anyway. But even so, I felt he was a tad overrated and at this time was particularly frustrated that Fisichella had to keep driving that awful Benetton at the back very well while others less worthy hogged the top seats year after year (Irvine, Coulthard, R.Schumacher). I didn't mind so much if DC was on good form.

I have to say I was quite disappointed that Raikkonen beat DC in qualifying in 2002, but he still drove well to finish just behind the Williams drivers in the WDC. 2003 was terrible though, embarrasingly far behind Raikkonen, though he kept insisting his reeeace peeeace (sic) was good. This tried my patience as Fisichella was languishing in a Jordan. 2004 promised an improvement but it never came. David's stock was at an all time low. He kept insisting he was better than Fisichella even though he finished only 2pts ahead in the WDC armed with a McLaren against a Sauber!

At this time, there was a Williams drive up for grabs. Many names were mentioned including Anthony Davidson, Coulthard, Scott Dixon, Heidfeld, and most deserving of all Fisi. Frankly, for Coulthard to get that drive ahead of Fisi in particular would have been a huge injustice. Coulthard moaned about being a proven race winner etc while sneering that some drivers only have "potential" - I took it he was referring to Fisi! How dare he! DC even visited the Williams factory to make a presentation of why he should get the drive. I imagine that must have been hilarious and Frank and Patrick would have been busting to LOL. They were singularly unimpressed and thankfully chose to give someone else a chance.

When Coulthard was then linked to Red Bull, everyone including me felt it was time to give it up. Mr Mate****z said he wasn't interested, so reportedly DC then approached the struggling Jordan team! Red Bull suddenly changed their mind though and he was signed. I wasn't expecting much for 2005, given that there would be 6 top teams fighting for 8 points scoring positions. I was convinced that points would be extremely rare and DC would do well to get maybe 9pts, more like 6!

So imagine the surprise that though DC and Klien qualified 5th and 6th in wet Melbourne qualifying (and the expectation was that MAYBE DC could hold on for a point, or even 2) that he only went forward, barged past Webber's Williams, ran a strong 2nd for much of the race and finished 4th beating Webber fair and square! He even could have held 2nd were it not for a slow final pitstop. David was absolutely confident that he could have held off Barrichello and Alonso, and I believe him. David had won my respect.

Following this up with a great 6th in Malaysia (which apparently could have been 4th!), he then suffered an electrical disaster in Bahrain. Even then he came home 8th. He collided with Massa at Imola, but given that rookie team-mate Liuzzi who was slower eventually came 8th, DC would have scored yet again. At a car track such as Spain, he brilliantly held off Barrichello and Heidfeld to claim another points for 8th. In Monaco he was flying before being caught up in Michael's Mirabeau spin. He was out. DC felt he could have got 2nd that day. I agree and think at least 4th was pretty certain.

Even on a bad day he still qualified 14th at the Nurburgring. Remarkably he got up to 4th after the turn 1 collision, and held onto it! He even led the race and was flying until he just put a wheel on the pit exit line and got a drive-thru, costing him 15 seconds. Given that he finished exactly that amount behind Heidfeld/Barrichello, there is every chance he could have taken 2nd! In Canada he again finished 7th with Klien 8th, before scoring again in Germany. In Hungary, Red Bull qualified well down the field but were both out on lap 1. They said they were on a very heavy fuel load, so looked set for a big finish. Williams who were slower came 6th and 7th. Another 7th and 8th in Turkey was followed by beating Michael in Japan and losing out on 5th in China.

Ever since he joined Red Bull and escaped the shackles of McLaren, DC seemed like a new man. He was massively more likeable. The beard (with silver bits appearing) only served to make him even more of a cooler dude. Gone was the boring wooden PR robot of McLaren :robo: , replaced by a person who was fun and who could speak his mind, and seemed to relish the opportunity to do so.

For some strange reason, Red Bull went with Ferrari engines for 2006 and duly suffered, but he still got a memorable 3rd in Monaco, and unlike 5 or 10 years earlier, I thought he really looked the part in the Superman cape. :) He spoke up for his team-mate who was harshly dumped before the season ended.

The underrated Webber joined for '07 and thrashed DC in qualifying, but DC still led the team very well and scored good points.

I only watched the end of the Canadian Grand Prix in 2008, but the feel-good result was not the BMW 1-2, but the "very happy Scot" who came 3rd. It was delightful to see him celebrate 3rd, and I enjoyed the fact that I was now truly happy for him doing well, rather than cheering when he retired in the late 90s (as I supported Schumacher and Irvine).

To think that almost everyone insisted he should leave after '04. If he had retired then, what would the memories and his legacy be? I am now so glad he got those extra years which have done so much to increase his stock. I feel they also prepared him for his current role with the BBC, at which he is becoming increasingly more comfortable and proficient at.

The most impressive thing for me was that most drivers in his situation would stop giving their best after joining a lower team having spent most of their career in winning/WDC cars, but DC totally got stuck in and I feel he did a lot to make Red Bull what they are today, considering the Jaguar mess they had been before. Tony Purnell was impressed and surprised at David's passion for Formula 1, exclaiming that he was a real fan! The young drivers were also surprised at his actual peeeaace on track, having thought they'd get it quite easy against him. So all in all thumbs up for DC. :up:

[steveaki13]

DAVID COULTHARD
When I watched my first proper F1 race, Argentina 1997, during the ITV build up, they spoke to a guy on the grid. I didn't know anybody except Damon Hill then, and needed someone to support for now. The guy they were speaking to seemed really nice and professional, as he was talking about his hopes from 10th on the grid. This was David Coulthard. It didn't go well as he was out at turn 1. Missed out badly in Canada, on for the win before the safety car. He did win Monza though, prompting ITV to run an advert to the tune of The Blue Danube "...and in Italy (Coulthard Coulthard), he won the Grand Prix! (Coulthard Coulthard)..." Does anyone remember that? I wish I could remember the words. I also liked the can-can-Coulthard advert after Monaco '98. ITV did some weird adverts back then; "This time, it's personal"? Err why?

In Jerez 1997 there was an infamous and unsporting incident that sadly took place: I am of course talking about Ron Dennis making Coulthard move over to give the win that he earned fair and square to Mika Hakkinen to help Mika's confidence and title aspirations for '98? What about Coulthard's?!! This is why I don't like it when Ron boasts about being "a racer". He is in fact the number 1 person in favour of the way F1 was in 2002 etc. The way he treated Bernoldi after Monaco 2001 stunk. Ken Tyrrell once said about Flav "I don't necessarily mind people who are in F1 for the business, and Flav is straight about not being a racer; it's the ones who say they're in it for the racing when you know they're not, who get me". I guess it's up to us to determine who he had in mind.

Sadly, Coulthard was fairly rubbish in '98 as the team was biased toward Mika. But I think David may have been too complacent, as shown by confidently betting the race on getting to the first corner 1st in Melbourne, only to find that Mika had been doing his homework in all areas. David did get the brunt of reliability problems though. He could have won maybe 7 races so the cards didn't fall particularly well.

1999 was even worse and he was extremely fortunate to keep his seat for 2000, only because Zonta had disappointed and Heidfeld was too untried. Eddie Irvine declared after Canada that his stock is going down at every race.

I didn't expect much from him in 2000, so it was a pleasant surprise to see how close he was to Mika in Brazil, winning Silverstone fair and square and blasting to 2nd in Spain with painful ribs from that bad plane crash. He then took pole at the Nurburgring, his first in 2 years. His driving had reached a new level. Jackie Stewart declared Coulthard could be world champion that year (surprise).

2001 was his best season yet, outperforming Mika all round (though Mika was past it - at 32!) but despite what people will say, I truly believe the McLaren was only about a tenth slower than the Ferrari on average - it was just Michael's brilliance that made the difference. DC did well to beat Barrichello anyway. But even so, I felt he was a tad overrated and at this time was particularly frustrated that Fisichella had to keep driving that awful Benetton at the back very well while others less worthy hogged the top seats year after year (Irvine, Coulthard, R.Schumacher). I didn't mind so much if DC was on good form.

I have to say I was quite disappointed that Raikkonen beat DC in qualifying in 2002, but he still drove well to finish just behind the Williams drivers in the WDC. 2003 was terrible though, embarrasingly far behind Raikkonen, though he kept insisting his reeeace peeeace (sic) was good. This tried my patience as Fisichella was languishing in a Jordan. 2004 promised an improvement but it never came. David's stock was at an all time low. He kept insisting he was better than Fisichella even though he finished only 2pts ahead in the WDC armed with a McLaren against a Sauber!

At this time, there was a Williams drive up for grabs. Many names were mentioned including Anthony Davidson, Coulthard, Scott Dixon, Heidfeld, and most deserving of all Fisi. Frankly, for Coulthard to get that drive ahead of Fisi in particular would have been a huge injustice. Coulthard moaned about being a proven race winner etc while sneering that some drivers only have "potential" - I took it he was referring to Fisi! How dare he! DC even visited the Williams factory to make a presentation of why he should get the drive. I imagine that must have been hilarious and Frank and Patrick would have been busting to LOL. They were singularly unimpressed and thankfully chose to give someone else a chance.

When Coulthard was then linked to Red Bull, everyone including me felt it was time to give it up. Mr Mate****z said he wasn't interested, so reportedly DC then approached the struggling Jordan team! Red Bull suddenly changed their mind though and he was signed. I wasn't expecting much for 2005, given that there would be 6 top teams fighting for 8 points scoring positions. I was convinced that points would be extremely rare and DC would do well to get maybe 9pts, more like 6!

So imagine the surprise that though DC and Klien qualified 5th and 6th in wet Melbourne qualifying (and the expectation was that MAYBE DC could hold on for a point, or even 2) that he only went forward, barged past Webber's Williams, ran a strong 2nd for much of the race and finished 4th beating Webber fair and square! He even could have held 2nd were it not for a slow final pitstop. David was absolutely confident that he could have held off Barrichello and Alonso, and I believe him. David had won my respect.

Following this up with a great 6th in Malaysia (which apparently could have been 4th!), he then suffered an electrical disaster in Bahrain. Even then he came home 8th. He collided with Massa at Imola, but given that rookie team-mate Liuzzi who was slower eventually came 8th, DC would have scored yet again. At a car track such as Spain, he brilliantly held off Barrichello and Heidfeld to claim another points for 8th. In Monaco he was flying before being caught up in Michael's Mirabeau spin. He was out. DC felt he could have got 2nd that day. I agree and think at least 4th was pretty certain.

Even on a bad day he still qualified 14th at the Nurburgring. Remarkably he got up to 4th after the turn 1 collision, and held onto it! He even led the race and was flying until he just put a wheel on the pit exit line and got a drive-thru, costing him 15 seconds. Given that he finished exactly that amount behind Heidfeld/Barrichello, there is every chance he could have taken 2nd! In Canada he again finished 7th with Klien 8th, before scoring again in Germany. In Hungary, Red Bull qualified well down the field but were both out on lap 1. They said they were on a very heavy fuel load, so looked set for a big finish. Williams who were slower came 6th and 7th. Another 7th and 8th in Turkey was followed by beating Michael in Japan and losing out on 5th in China.

Ever since he joined Red Bull and escaped the shackles of McLaren, DC seemed like a new man. He was massively more likeable. The beard (with silver bits appearing) only served to make him even more of a cooler dude. Gone was the boring wooden PR robot of McLaren :robo: , replaced by a person who was fun and who could speak his mind, and seemed to relish the opportunity to do so.

For some strange reason, Red Bull went with Ferrari engines for 2006 and duly suffered, but he still got a memorable 3rd in Monaco, and unlike 5 or 10 years earlier, I thought he really looked the part in the Superman cape. :) He spoke up for his team-mate who was harshly dumped before the season ended.

The underrated Webber joined for '07 and thrashed DC in qualifying, but DC still led the team very well and scored good points.

I only watched the end of the Canadian Grand Prix in 2008, but the feel-good result was not the BMW 1-2, but the "very happy Scot" who came 3rd. It was delightful to see him celebrate 3rd, and I enjoyed the fact that I was now truly happy for him doing well, rather than cheering when he retired in the late 90s (as I supported Schumacher and Irvine).

To think that almost everyone insisted he should leave after '04. If he had retired then, what would the memories and his legacy be? I am now so glad he got those extra years which have done so much to increase his stock. I feel they also prepared him for his current role with the BBC, at which he is becoming increasingly more comfortable and proficient at.

The most impressive thing for me was that most drivers in his situation would stop giving their best after joining a lower team having spent most of their career in winning/WDC cars, but DC totally got stuck in and I feel he did a lot to make Red Bull what they are today, considering the Jaguar mess they had been before. Tony Purnell was impressed and surprised at David's passion for Formula 1, exclaiming that he was a real fan! The young drivers were also surprised at his actual peeeaace on track, having thought they'd get it quite easy against him. So all in all thumbs up for DC. :up:

That is pretty much spot on.

I used to support DC and was very happy early in 2001 when he seemed to be a match for Schumi after podiums in Oz and that crazy Malaysia. Then points in the first 6 or so races including wins in Brazil & Austria. It could have been better had his launch control not failed from pole at Monaco, however after the Canada engine failure t was all down hill.

All in all he had a great career. Not many drivers win 13 Grand Prix, score so many podiums and points.

He was never Champion Class, but after that he was one of the best around. Winner, consistent and a points scorer.

[rjbetty]

NICK HEIDFELD

It's strange to think so now, but there was a time when Nick Heidfeld was considered to be the next big thing in F1. He was being groomed for stardom and a glorious future at McLaren-Mercedes.

This was before drivers we know now like Button, Alonso and Raikkonen arrived. IIRC Nick came very close to scoring a full time race drive with McLaren for 2000 since the team had run out of patience with an underwhelming Coulthard. Eventually DC managed to keep his drive for one more season (and he didn't waste the opportunity) since Nick was simply too unproven so he was farmed out to Prost to see how he got on.

The first time I saw Nick Heidfeld was when I watched my very first Formula 3000 race on TV in 1998 at Monaco, where he won! He was locked in a memorable duel with Montoya for the title that year, and towards the end he looked like he would take it. He fell short in the end, but the following year had it all to himself with Montoya gone. My memory is of the way he obliterated the highly rated Mario Haberfeld, his team-mate who failed to qualify for 40% of the races in 1999 in a car bearing the McLaren colours - and failed to score any points.

I have to say I always thought it strange how low people's opinions of Heidfeld were after 2000. As I see it he never recovered after that, as far as perceptions were concerned. I also always thought the Prost car wasn't quite that bad. Alesi averaged about +1.86sec off in qualifying which was only slightly slower than Trulli managed the previous year. In the same way, Heidfeld was nowhere near as bad as he was made out to be - in fact he actually did well - after he had settled in. Sadly by then it was too late and it seemed that people's minds were made up.

Making his debut in the same race as Jenson 13 years ago, Heidfeld outqualified his illustrious team-mate Alesi, starting 15th. Brazil was disappointing as he beat only Mazzacane's Minardi in qualifying in 19th - really a true 21st as the Saubers had massive problems. Imola was even worse as he was on the back row, and outqualified by Mazzacane. I remember this causing a stir and it wasn't good.

But at the Nurburgring, Heidfeld put the car 13th, it's highest of the year at the point, and was miles ahead of Alesi! It was typical of Heidfeld's year that he would be excluded for the rest of the weekend for the car being 2kg underweight. Monaco was sadly quite poor as he started 19th. Alesi was a magnificent 7th; somehow he got that dreadful car up there and was looking on for a podium in the race. This was followed by Canada where Nick started last of all, which didn't go unnoticed.

The low point though was probably the French Grand Prix. It had already been disastrous enough as Prost had publicly fallen out with Peugeot on home ground. Then Heidfeld and Alesi collided at the hairpin in the race while fighting Marc Gené... Sadly the same thing happened in Austria: Now Alesi hated Heidfeld too and made it pretty clear how he felt...

I always felt this was far too harsh. People must have expected too much. Heidfeld seemed to be given no leeway for the back row performances for how bad his team was. It seemed obvious to me he was better than that. He was in his first season in a team in a total mess in a difficult car. I think he should have been given more understanding for occasionally having a bad weekend.

What really caught my eye was how much Nick quietly outperformed Alesi in the second half of the season, outqualifying him more often than not. In the first half of the season, it was 7-2 to Alesi in qualifying. After that it was 5-3 to Heidfeld. But sadly, the damage had been done and people had made their minds up; especially in light of what Jenson Button was doing in the Williams. The 3 back row performances only happened in Nick's first 8 races. After that there were no such disasters.

I must have been one of the few therefore to believe he would actually do quite well at Sauber in 2001. He just needed somewhere settled where he was supported. It seemed obvious to me that he would be at an equal or higher level than Alesi in 2001.

I had no idea how well his season would go as Sauber had produced a very decent car and were looking like a serious team for the first time. They also had a very strong Ferrari engine. I never thought he would equal 7th in the championship. I was very happy to see him score a big points haul in Melbourne before following with a podium in Brazil. From then on he was always a fixture in or around the points.

Sadly for him, this was the time when a McLaren seat had opened up. Through the years Heidfeld had been assured of the next available space. That was the plan. But there was a problem: This new guy had arrived called Kimi Raikkonen, who had matched Heidfeld's performances despite only 23 British Formula Renault car races before the season. Max Mosley was vigorous in denying Raikkonen a superlicence and Mika Salo in particaular blasted him in his usual crude Irvine-like way. As it happened, Kimi performed to a level of speed and ability that Salo had never been able to reach. All this meant the McLaren plan had changed. Even though Nick explained that he had outpointed Raikkonen 12-9 and outqualified him 10-7, the obvious truth that is clear to see is that Raikkonen was only beginning his learning curve and was essentially matching Nick already even though Heidfeld was much further ahead on motorsport experience. Kimi had far more improvement to come, and so he was signed for McLaren and Heidfeld's destiny was cancelled...

I can imagine it was very harsh on him, but his argument is flawed in the same was as people saying Kobayashi is close to Perez. In that case also, Perez is quite a lot further back on his learning curve and has already beaten Kobayashi in both qualifying and in the points. It may seem 'close' but it is a skewed an untrue picture. That is why McLaren have signed perez.

Heidfeld really seemed to take the McLaren decision badly, though he should have been able to understand their thinking, which come on, was correct. He still did very well in 2002 and outperformed Massa by much more than he did against Raikkonen even though he'd lost his spark a little (what does that say about who's better between Massa/Raikkonen?).

In 2003 though, it has to be said that Heidfeld was almost totally anonymous. He seemed to struggle both with the fact that the car had fallen down the relative order despite a mega Ferrari engine/gearbox, and the fact that Raikkonen was almost winning the title in the drive he always believed was for him. Sadly he lost favour with Sauber and was replaced at the end of the year. It looked like he would sadly be out of F1 altogether, until he scraped together a deal with the skint* Jordan team.

It may have not been much, but it was really good just to see Nick still in the game. He seemed to respond well to being loved and valued by Eddie Jordan and carried the team well. He did well to get precious points in consecutive races in Monaco and Canada. Also, I have to say his blue, yellow and white helmet looked stunning in that yellow Jordan!

This was rewarded by being considered for the 2nd Williams seat replacing Ralf Schumacher for 2005. After a long process, he was informed of Williams' decision about half an hour (IIRC) before their launch - he had got the drive!

I was so happy to see Nick get his big chance in a plum drive - he deserved it, and surely it put to rest some of the nightmares of losing the McLaren drive. Nick gave a very good account of himself in the season and BMW and Sam Michael were delighted with his ability to get the results the car was capable of. It's an uncanny knack that was and is all too overlooked, and all too often put down to simply 'luck'. How come then that Webber and Villeneuve consistently kept failing to rack up as many points and good results as Heidfeld? It isn't all luck - Nick has a skill here.

It was a shame that Webber had to have such a horrible and jealous attitude at the time. It was the kind of behaviour I'd expect from senior Red Bull team members. Webber was fantastic in qualifying and was rarely headed by Nick. But I feel Mark was playing a clever game: he understands how much perceptions matter and how much pre-eminence people place on qualifying results, so he set up everything towards simply outqualifying Nick, which he often did extremely well. But it seemed he left himself nothing for the race and then moaned when Nick scored the better result, as he almost always did when there were no problems. No, Nick had done his homework and prepared for the race - you can't keep on being that 'lucky'!

Also, I was really interested to read on f1 rejects how at Monaco, both Williams' were swamping the struggling Renault of Alonso. He was proving very hard to overtake (unlike Fisichella *sigh*) but Nick managed it. F1rejects' intriguing view was that when Webber repeated Nick's move the next lap, it was actually because Mark had seen how it was done, and that was how he was able to pass. Webber had tried to pass Alonso several times but was unable to do so, then when Nick completed the move, Webber pulled an identical one, so I believe that suggestion was probably true. At this point Heidfeld was 4th in the championship ahead of Webber.

I personally believe he would have outpointed Webber over the season, but an accident put him out of the last 6 races. Given that the 2005 WDC standings were
6.R.Schumacher (Toyota) 45pts
7.Trulli (Toyota) 43pts
8.Barrichello (Ferrari) 38pts
9.Button (BAR) 37pts
10.Webber (Williams) 36pts
11.Heidfeld (Williams) 28pts

and that Nick was ahead when his season was cut short, he may well have had 8th or even 6th in the WDC.

*skint = dirt poor in British slang (not everyone knows that, before anyone has something to say!)

[rjbetty]

2006

I thought Heidfeld's 2006 at BMW Sauber was very impressive. Despite what Jacques Villeneuve would tell you, JV only matched Heidfeld in qualifying and was comprehensively beaten in races. JV will say he had terrible 'luck', but again he fails to consider that maybe Nick actually has a talent and capacity for getting results. In other words, he was able to pretty much match Villeneuve's speed while still having bags of mental capacity left to execute good racecraft and get points, whereas it took everything Jacques had to pip Nick for speed but there was nothing left for racing well and doing what he had to do to finish well. As I say, my belief is that it is a skill, also shared by Alonso etc and not just all 'luck'.

One thing that impressed me about Heidfeld was his ability to still score points even in his weaker races, such as Monaco where he still bagged 7th. People were impressed with Villeneuve's 7th place in Malaysia. While it was a good drive, Heidfeld's race was even stronger as he chased Montoya in a McLaren for 4th ahead of both Ferrari's in the closing laps when his engine blew! He then should have been on the podium in Melbourne but for problems. He diced professionally with Michael Schumacher in Hungary on his way to the podium, causing the great man to lose his nerve and crash. Nick was very unfortunate indeed to be taken out of 5th place late in China by have-a-go-Sato (there's a difference between being brave and being a twit). All in all, 9th was very impressive and helped BMW Sauber to beat Toyota to 5th in the WDC!

2007 was probably his best year, on great form throughout and overshadowing Robert Kubica on his way to a 61pt haul. He was the closest and most consistent challenger to the McLaren/Ferrari duopoly.

I didn't watch F1 for a long time after that but I hear he was disappointed with 2008. 4x2nd places and 60pts is hardly a disaster. Heidfeld then finished his BMW Sauber career strongly by finsihing 5th in Abu Dhabi in an uncompetitive car. To the end, he always got what the car was capable of.

It was very harsh that he wasn't snapped up by Sauber for 2010; very odd. Eventually they saw sense and put him in the car. But I believe Nick when he said all his engines were below their performance due to the miles that had been put on them by de la Rosa. Though Nick had clearly lost some speed, he still brought home points and proved to be a much more reliable pair of hands than PDLR.

The time out of a regular ride seemed to had really taken it's toll on Nick however since his qualifying speed at Lotus was very poor - even Bruno Senna was quicker... He still did his usual thing in the races, but he was too little ahead of Petrov in the points. I had high hopes at the start of the season that Nick was going to win his first race, and maybe have a good go at 3rd in the WDC behind Vettel and Alonso. At least he got to stand on the podium one more time, which he dedicated to Robert Kubica. That was really nice, especially considering they hadn't been the best of friends at BMW.

Lotus-Renault didn't give him the support he needed, but I have to say I can understand and I do agree that he was employed to lead the team and perform strongly, and he simply didn't do that anywhere near as well as hoped.

So it looks like Heidfeld has finished in F1, but he did have a really good run and is definitely one of the best drivers not to have won a race.

[steveaki13]

. Imola was even worse as he was on the back row, and outqualified by Mazzacane. I remember this causing a stir and it wasn't good.



But Gaston was a legend. :vader:

[rjbetty]

But Gaston was a legend. :vader:

Ha I remember you saying you liked him. I don't know why, I quite liked him too, especially in the Prost. I must be one of the few who wished he kept that drive. I thought he was better than people thought.

[jens]

What a spectacular write-up, rjbetty! I think I don't have enough superlatives to describe your effort!!

I was a Trulli fan and I have to say during his time I felt many things you mentioned. Though I never knew Ferrari considered him in 2005!

Regarding Heidfeld I have to say that to this day I believe he would have been a better option for McLaren than Montoya. Considering how drivers like Coulthard, de la Rosa and Button have fit well with McLaren's professional and corporate culture, Heidfeld would have been an ideal driver alongside Räikkönen - not much talk and temperament, always good results however. But as it was, Montoya got fed up with McLaren and F1 and ran away mid-season. Hardly a pleasant solution for McLaren.

But yeah, it is always challenging to see the future and back in 2003 it would have been difficult to pass on Montoya, who was a title contender at the time, while Heidfeld was invisible somewhere in midfield.

[steveaki13]

What a spectacular write-up, rjbetty! I think I don't have enough superlatives to describe your effort!!

I was a Trulli fan and I have to say during his time I felt many things you mentioned. Though I never knew Ferrari considered him in 2005!

Regarding Heidfeld I have to say that to this day I believe he would have been a better option for McLaren than Montoya. Considering how drivers like Coulthard, de la Rosa and Button have fit well with McLaren's professional and corporate culture, Heidfeld would have been an ideal driver alongside Räikkönen - not much talk and temperament, always good results however. But as it was, Montoya got fed up with McLaren and F1 and ran away mid-season. Hardly a pleasant solution for McLaren.

But yeah, it is always challenging to see the future and back in 2003 it would have been difficult to pass on Montoya, who was a title contender at the time, while Heidfeld was invisible somewhere in midfield.

I agree about Heidfeld and Mclaren.

If you look at 2001 they were very successful teammates at Sauber. Kimi had some outstanding drives which got him noticed but also Nick was super consistant and scored lots of points. Even claiming that podium in Brazil.

Heidfeld got 12 points and Kimi 9. So given that it was only top 6 score then and Williams, Mclaren & Ferrari were all race winning cars that was a great effort and secured Sauber 21 points and 4th in the Constructors. Which I believe is still their best taking out BMWs couple of seasons.

If he and Kimi had been at Mclaren you could have seen an even better 2005 where they might have won the constructors.

After all Mclaren were 9 points behind Renault and Kimi got 112 to Montoyas 60. I think Nick was quick enough that if he had that car he could have won a couple of races like Montoya and probably would have been more consistant and not missed those 2 races early in the season.

Therefore securing a further 10 points.

All in all I always liked Nick and was sorry he didnt quite get his win in F1. He was so consistant in the BMW in 2007 which wasn't quite fast enough to win a race, then in 2008 Kubica was brilliant and still Nick done a decent job.

Its all a case of what might have been. He is in my view one of the best drivers in F1 history never to win a race.

[Chissy555]

And he still holds the record at Goodwood in the McLaren MP4-12........what a run that was :)