Wiggins knocked off his bike

[Mark]

BBC Sport - Bradley Wiggins: Tour de France winner injured in crash (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20246940)

What hope for the rest of us if he gets run over? No wonder the teams go off to the likes of Spain -- it isn't just about the weather.

[Knock-on]

So, he had hi vis, lights and all the correct protective equipment on and still drivers cannot see him.

The standard of driving in this country is terrible for a 'supposed' highly developed country.

[Dave B]

The standard of driving does indeed leave a lot to be desired, but I've also encountered many cyclists who don't exactly help their cause. When I used to drive through London on a daily basis I lost count of the amount of scratches my car acquired as they barged their way through traffic without a care, ignoring lights and pavements willy nilly.

As with most things, a small number of motorists and a small number of cyclists give everybody a bad name.

Still, all the best to Wiggo.

[Mark]

Yes, Dave; But commuter cyclists in London aren't exactly relevant to Wiggins getting knocked down outside a petrol station in Lancashire.

[Dave B]

Sorry, I didn't realise that this was to be the first thread in a decade that didn't gradually widen its scope of discussion. :p

[Mark]

Not in my threads Dave ;)

[Knock-on]

Wiggo is a hard lad. Couple of bruised ribs wont hold him back for long :)

I agree also Dave that cyclists don't help themselves on the whole whether it's the 2 wheeled mobs that wreek havoc during rush hour in London or the gangs of lycra clad budding Wiggins's that frustrate drivers by peddeling at 15 mph, side by side, having a nice chat on a Sunday and stopping anyone passing them for miles.

Saying that, the effort people put into driving in this country is woefull. As soon as they have a Licence, they think that they have a right to switch off. The future, ex, Mrs Knockie is no exception and has admitted to driving 45 miles from Surrey to London and not remember anything about the trip or noticed anything. She also needs constant reminding that it isn't illegal to use the inside lane of a Motorway!!

I don't know how people do it? If I don't know who's on my left, right, rear and in-front, of me, I would feel nervous and aggitated.

(Sorry Mark, didn't mean to mention that there is a City south of Birmingham where people cycle ;) )

[Mark]

Sorry Knockie, but, there is nothing south of Birmingham.

[Dave B]

A cursory glance out of my window would seem to disprove that. Nice and sunny, too :D

[Mark]

It now seems Wiggins was riding a mountain bike! - that's where he went wrong then :laugh:

[Knock-on]

A cursory glance out of my window would seem to disprove that. Nice and sunny, too :D

Don't make fun Dave. :( Just because Mark hasn't seen it doesn't mean you can poke fun at him.

Here you go Mark, this is what he's going on about :p

Sun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun)

[Mark]

You're trying to tell me that we live in close proximity to a star? :laugh:

[Knock-on]

You're trying to tell me that we live in close proximity to a star? :laugh:

What, you mean the X-Factor?

[mousti]

Nothing special though, in Belgium it often happens too. Also if they have 2 earplugs in for music while training, they don't recognize the danger of traffic they can't see.

Verstuurd van mijn SK17i met Tapatalk

[Daniel]

So, he had hi vis, lights and all the correct protective equipment on and still drivers cannot see him.

The standard of driving in this country is terrible for a 'supposed' highly developed country.

Where has it been confirmed that he had lights and reflective clothing on?

The standard of posting in the country is terrible for a 'supposed' highly developed country :)

[Knock-on]

Where has it been confirmed that he had lights and reflective clothing on?

The standard of posting in the country is terrible for a 'supposed' highly developed country :)

It was reported on the BBC this morning but never miss an opportunity for a dig Poodle. :D

[Daniel]

It was reported on the BBC this morning but never miss an opportunity for a dig Poodle. :D
Link? :) You never miss the chance to substantiate your own claims with evidence which you, yourself provide :)

[Knock-on]

The BBC is a Broadcasting Corporation and occassionally put content out on TV you know. :p

[Daniel]

The BBC is a Broadcasting Corporation and occassionally put content out on TV you know. :p
Link? :)

[wedge]

France & Italy are a lot, lot worse.

[Knock-on]

France & Italy are a lot, lot worse.

I find the driving out of towns in both Countries OK actually. The Frogs in particular are excellentt observing Lane protocol even if they tend to tailgate a bit.

In Cities it's the same as London I'm afraid.

[Dave B]

It's not a great day for cyclists:
BBC Sport - GB cycling coach Shane Sutton injured in crash (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20255862)

:s

[Daniel]

iPlayer

Thanks for the 'helpful' reply :) Where on iPlayer? :) It just seems a bit strange that a rather crucial set of details has been left off the web story and a set of details which if confirmed I'm sure, would have been included.

[janneppi]

Less stupid and more content.

I came across this few days ago:
What an RAF pilot can teach us about being safe on the road (http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/)

Quite good reading for everyone out on the streets no matter method transport.

[Daniel]

I have no idea and have no real interest in looking, just providing a possible source. Whether he was wearing a reflective outfit or cycling through the petrol station on fire like a human fireball, I think its unfortunate he just got knocked off.

The good news is Bradley has been released from hospital. According the BBC website. :)

Edit: If the details you were after were mentioned on this mornings program, I would think the news is recycled throughout the 3 hour program. Have a quick scrub through and I'm sure it'll be on one of the bulletins. :)

I agree that it's unfortunate that he got knocked off and I certainly wish him the best, I just think it's a bit of a jump for Knock on to assume (he's still been unable to provide any links and has resorted to name calling) that he was wearing all the relevant safety gear and riding sensibly. Colin McRae showed us that our heroes don't always do as they should and can make a mistake or three.

As always everyone should be innocent until proven guilty and that includes Wiggins and the motorist.

[Knock-on]

Stop behaving like an idiot Daniel. I said I saw it on TV and just because you want to provoke a juvernile arguement doesn't mean we're going to go along with your plan.

I couldn't care less whether you choose to believe what I claim I saw and it's really irrelevant to argue on here about it.

End of story for me.

[Daniel]

Stop behaving like an idiot Daniel. I said I saw it on TV and just because you want to provoke a juvernile arguement doesn't mean we're going to go along with your plan.

I couldn't care less whether you choose to believe what I claim I saw and it's really irrelevant to argue on here about it.

End of story for me.

Now even more name calling.

[Gregor-y]

I came across this few days ago:
What an RAF pilot can teach us about being safe on the road (http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/)
Quite good reading for everyone out on the streets no matter method transport.

That's a great article. I'm going to start using the rear flasher going to work, though it's already getting darker in the morning, to say nothing of five-thirty PM these days.

[Mark]

Less stupid and more content.

I came across this few days ago:
What an RAF pilot can teach us about being safe on the road (http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/)

Quite good reading for everyone out on the streets no matter method transport.

Exceptionally interesting article, thanks!

[Daniel]

I don't think pursuing a demand for a link was really needed. Not everything seen on TV has to be backed up with a link and not everything has to be believed. Just forget it :)
But saying that someone is acting "like an idiot" is hardly what is meant to be done on here which was my point. Is anything justifiable if you put "like" before it? So could I say you're acting like a w@nker? I would sincerely hope not.....

P.S Of course I'm not trying to say Henners is a w*****, I'm just using that as an example of what you could potentially get away with if adding a like before an insult makes any word or statement which follows it acceptable.

[BDunnell]

Less stupid and more content.

I came across this few days ago:
What an RAF pilot can teach us about being safe on the road (http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/)

Quite good reading for everyone out on the streets no matter method transport.

Fascinating. Off-topic, I know, but I wonder whether anything in that piece might also apply to Romain Grosjean. But I digress.

[Daniel]

Fascinating. Off-topic, I know, but I wonder whether anything in that piece might also apply to Romain Grosjean. But I digress.
Stop acting like an <insert person insult here> :p

[Knock-on]

I was just thinking back to Bradleys call for cyclists to wear a helmet to cover them by Law in light of the (alledged) damage sustained to his helmet in the crash.

How more serious could his injuries have been were he not wearing one?

[Malbec]

I agree also Dave that cyclists don't help themselves on the whole whether it's the 2 wheeled mobs that wreek havoc during rush hour in London

The problem in London are cyclists who don't drive and don't know/want to know how drivers and motorcyclists think and behave.


Saying that, the effort people put into driving in this country is woefull. As soon as they have a Licence, they think that they have a right to switch off.

What amazes me is the total lack of a sense that the licence is only the most basic minimum standard that people should attain.

When you get a bike licence in this country everyone strongly recommends you go for further training whether it be on the roads, on tracks or off-roads and most people go. Once you get your car licence most people assume thats it, experience will teach you the rest. There is little inclination for drivers to go for further training at all.

That said I've noticed a massive improvement in driver attitudes towards people on two wheels in London. No doubt thats helped by both Red Ken and Boris spending millions hitting drivers with shocking ads to get them to notice bikes (as well as making bikers of both types more careful too). Sometimes its almost embarrassing as people see me in their rear view mirrors and practically swerve off the road to give me overtaking space. That never happened before.

Still, there's a long way to go before people have continental attitudes towards two-wheelers.

[Malbec]

France & Italy are a lot, lot worse.

Actually for both cyclists and bikers France and Italy are a lot lot better.

I guess thats because in both countries most people are or know a biker or cyclist and are therefore more likely to look out for one.

[Dave B]

What amazes me is the total lack of a sense that the licence is only the most basic minimum standard that people should attain.
It amazes me too. At the tender age of 17, you only have to demonstrate a few basic moves in a modest hatchback, and you're handed a piece of paper enabling you to drive any car on any road for the next few decades with no re-test and no medical. It's staggeringly stupid.

[Malbec]

Less stupid and more content.

I came across this few days ago:
What an RAF pilot can teach us about being safe on the road (http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/)

Quite good reading for everyone out on the streets no matter method transport.

Thanks for a great article.

There's another theory about why drivers don't see bikes.

Apparently the brain is configured to automatically target faces. Cars with their headlamps spaced apart like eyes draw our attention. Bikes with one headlamp don't.

Thats why new motorbikes often come with sidelights on all the time on the wingmirrors as widely spaced as possible.

[Knock-on]

The problem in London are cyclists who don't drive and don't know/want to know how drivers and motorcyclists think and behave.



What amazes me is the total lack of a sense that the licence is only the most basic minimum standard that people should attain.

When you get a bike licence in this country everyone strongly recommends you go for further training whether it be on the roads, on tracks or off-roads and most people go. Once you get your car licence most people assume thats it, experience will teach you the rest. There is little inclination for drivers to go for further training at all.

That said I've noticed a massive improvement in driver attitudes towards people on two wheels in London. No doubt thats helped by both Red Ken and Boris spending millions hitting drivers with shocking ads to get them to notice bikes (as well as making bikers of both types more careful too). Sometimes its almost embarrassing as people see me in their rear view mirrors and practically swerve off the road to give me overtaking space. That never happened before.

Still, there's a long way to go before people have continental attitudes towards two-wheelers.


It amazes me too. At the tender age of 17, you only have to demonstrate a few basic moves in a modest hatchback, and you're handed a piece of paper enabling you to drive any car on any road for the next few decades with no re-test and no medical. It's staggeringly stupid.

As a lifelong Cyclist and Biker, I agree so much with these two posts.

It was bad enough learning to ride a Motorbike back in the 80's but how the hell any 16 or 17 year old can survive the roads these days is beyond me.

If I go out of the bike for a day I cn practically guarentee someone will pull out or swerve into the side of me and as an experienced biker, it's 2nd nature to prepare and make allowances for this. In fact, it's 2nd nature to me but young bikers or cyclists just don't have that 6th sense.

[henners88]

I witnessed a 2 boy racers driving like idiots a week last Saturday where they were racing each other at over a 100mph and weaving around. One nearly came onto my side of the road where I had to break hard and swerve. I got a good look at the cars even though it was in a flash. The wife and me were sat watching TV that evening when the report of a fatal crash came on the news where two bikers were hit head on. It was on the same road and only the make of car was mentioned but I thought I would ring the police. Turns out it was the same driver and I had to give a full statement the following day. It appears the accident happened less than 30 seconds after they passed me! One biker was killed and the other is still fighting for his life. The only justice came on the Sunday afternoon where the boy racer involved in the impact died of his injuries and the other has been arrested for causing death by dangerous driving. Looks like I will be going to court in January or February next year and hope they send the b4astard down. What makes me sick though is the friends and family of the dead driver are commenting on the internet about the road being at fault! If only they knew but as I am a witness I will refrain from communicating anything.

[Mark]

And you shouldn't say anything more here either.. This is all being indexed on google after all.

As for helmets. Yes all cyclists should wear them. But they are far from the most important issue. They don't stop you getting knocked off by a car which hasn't seen you.

As Chris Boardman has said we all need to play a part it isn't just cyclists which need to adapt to the roads. If we want to encourage cycling; and given the health problems of the nation then we should. Then we need a change of environment like they achieved in Denamrk where due consideration is given cyclists in all situations.

This doesn't necessarily mean anti motorist. One of the best ways IMO of helping cyclists is building new roads and bypasses to take away conflicts.

[race aficionado]

When my swiss nephew came to visit this summer we took him out to cycle through Central Park.
He was impressed (in a bad way) with the way New Yorkers ride their bikes. - but what impressed me was that he said that in Switzerland as a kid, they all got lessons as to how to ride a bike in different circumstances and in a 'lawful" way in the sense of following certain road rules.
He also mentioned that car drivers were also taught how to deal safely with bikes.

Oh well . . . . they are Swiss after all. :)

[Knock-on]

And you shouldn't say anything more here either.. This is all being indexed on google after all.

:confused:

Did I say anything slanderous or libelous?

Robot racing car aims for pole position

Robot racing car aims for pole position \\\\\\\\\\\

Robot racing car aims for pole position\\\\

[GridGirl]

I can't imagine that he wouldn't have had lights and reflective clothing but I only base my opinion on the fact that I wouldn't go out cycling during winter without being light up like a Christmas tree. Night vision clothing is awesome. I suppose there are people who take risks though.

Do any other cyclists on here have insurance? I have insurance though British Cycling. Taking it out is a bit of a non-brainer, I have insurance for when I'm driving my car so why wouldn't I have insurance when riding my bike? I wouldn't be overly impressed if I was driving my car and an uninsured cyclist caused a collision with me. Not every cyclist is going to cough up and pay for the damage. Having said that, I would be as equally unimpressed if I was in a collision with an uninsured car.

[Mark]

I've just bought insurance through the British Cycling site :)

[Knock-on]

I can't imagine that he wouldn't have had lights and reflective clothing but I only base my opinion on the fact that I wouldn't go out cycling during winter without being light up like a Christmas tree. Night vision clothing is awesome. I suppose there are people who take risks though.

Do any other cyclists on here have insurance? I have insurance though British Cycling. Taking it out is a bit of a non-brainer, I have insurance for when I'm driving my car so why wouldn't I have insurance when riding my bike? I wouldn't be overly impressed if I was driving my car and an uninsured cyclist caused a collision with me. Not every cyclist is going to cough up and pay for the damage. Having said that, I would be as equally unimpressed if I was in a collision with an uninsured car.

I read something similar on FB yesterday. I'm pretty sure I'm covered for 3rd party accidents and theft through my home contents cover but if not, would certainly cover my backside with 3rd party cover.

[Mark]

£24 per year, isn't bad at all.

[Mark]

Then you won't need seperate insurance.

[D-Type]

Careful! Check the small print. You'll probably find the home contents public liability insurance is restricted to the home - cutting a tree that falls on someone in the street or next door, riding your bike into the postman when he is on your land, etc. It will probably require an extension to cover using your bike away from the house.
If I rode a cycle, I would have separate cycle insurance covering 3rd party liability and theft and if I could get it, fully comprehensive including legal cover.. The risks are the same as driving a car. Scratch a rich man's Rolls or get knocked off your bike by the same clown or by an uninsured boyo and you'll be up to your neck in the proverbial and need your insurance cover.

[SGWilko]

Whatever happened to the Cycling Proficiency Test? We used to have that at my junior school. If it was beefed up to tackle modern day roads and hazards.........

[Malbec]

Whatever happened to the Cycling Proficiency Test? We used to have that at my junior school. If it was beefed up to tackle modern day roads and hazards.........

Got scrapped back in the war didn't it? ;)

[SGWilko]

Got scrapped back in the war didn't it? ;)

Isn't that half the problem though? A good portion of young cyclists will become drivers. If they've learned safe cycling, they are statistically likely to be more cyclist aware as drivers?

[Mark]

They are starting to do that in schools more and more; however it's still seen as a fathers responsibility to teach a child how to cycle.

[wedge]

Actually for both cyclists and bikers France and Italy are a lot lot better.

I guess thats because in both countries most people are or know a biker or cyclist and are therefore more likely to look out for one.

I was referring to driving standards.


When you get a bike licence in this country everyone strongly recommends you go for further training whether it be on the roads, on tracks or off-roads and most people go. Once you get your car licence most people assume thats it, experience will teach you the rest. There is little inclination for drivers to go for further training at all.

I'm an advocate of skid pans but what can't be teached is snap oversteer.

[SGWilko]

As someone who rides to work on a moped, I see it all on my commute.

Cars pass me and cyclists so close to make it unnerving. Pulling in before they have completed the pass to avoid bollards etc.

Cyclists with no lights. Pedestians crossing the road at night in dark clothing.

Motorcyclists riding all the time on full beam.

But the worst behaviour are courier cyclists - I swear they have a death wish.

Th point made earlier about cycle helmets is a good one. It also riles me that there is no suitable solution to this issue in respect of the Boris bike hire scheme and similar schemes abroad. You see plenty of tourists on the bikes ignoring red lights. It is very worrying.

[Malbec]

I was referring to driving standards.

So was I. Car drivers take far greater note of two wheelers in both countries compared to the UK.


I'm an advocate of skid pans but what can't be teached is snap oversteer.

Car control is only one aspect but what about observation skills or defensive driving? How about reading the road ahead and other real life road skills?

Learning advanced driving skills should be seen as the norm, not something for dull autistic types.

[loowisham]

Has anyone seen the doping accusations regarding Wiggins? It was bound to come but not one organization (governing bodies) has stated that he doped. I for one hope this dies like the winter sun and that he and Fromm(sic) dominate. If cycling in the GB or other European counties maintains a level that has been established by SKY I feel we will see a much more knowledgeable sporting audience here in the US. Difficult to explain to some that A is the start and B is the end three weeks from A. Whomever does that in the quickest time wins.
Sad after stating that some others come up with, I saw Cavendish win a bunch of races. How come he is not winning :confused: ????!!!

[Mark]

Didn't understand a word of that.. However Wiggins has said that his target is for the Giro de Italia next year and for the Tour de France he'll be riding to support Chris Froome.

[BDunnell]

Didn't understand a word of that..

I especially like the reference to 'Fromm(sic)'.

[janneppi]

I'm not sure if this thread has had any influence, but I just bought a rear led light for my commuter/road bike. And also a hi-visibility vest in my car. :)

Here's a top gear top tip for the cyclist or pedestrians ;
Few years ago I asked some leftover white reflective sticker from a company that does traffic signs. It's bloody good stuff.
I have it on my bikes, i've made reflectors with it from old credit cards. I also put strips on my parent's drive way gate posts, no need to gues where the black metal posts are when they are light up by revers lights.

I've been meaning to ring them a again to get orange tape also as it would be better in the bike rims than white tape.

[D-Type]

What's particularly useful is to put reflective material or lights on your pedals. The up and down movement really shows up against the other essentially stationary lights. In side view the rotational movement is also visible but it is not as important as there's a lot more bulk to see.

[GridGirl]

I think legally you are supposed to have reflectors on your pedals. However, anyone who is actually into cycling would most likely have bought cycling shoes and gone clipless and therefore removed pedals which would have had reflectors on. The answer to this would be to get shoe manufacturers to produces cycling shoes with in built reflectors but I doubt that would ever happen.

[janneppi]

In Finland bikes weighing less than 10kg and have more than 12 speeds is exempt from most of the light and reflector rules during day light. :)

Here's comparison videos of my bikes reflector setup (both videos about 20Mb in size)

normal
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/11791273/DSC_0734.MOV

Flashlight lights the bike
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/11791273/DSC_0735.MOV

[Mark]

Well in the UK bikes don't need reflectors or lights in the daylight at all.

[loowisham]

Has anyone seen the doping accusations regarding Wiggins? It was bound to come but not one organization (governing bodies) has stated that he doped. I for one hope this dies like the winter sun and that he and Fromm(sic) dominate. If cycling in the GB or other European counties maintains a level that has been established by SKY I feel we will see a much more knowledgeable sporting audience here in the US. Difficult to explain to some that A is the start and B is the end three weeks from A. Whomever does that in the quickest time wins.
Sad after stating that some others come up with, I saw Cavendish win a bunch of races. How come he is not winning :confused: ????!!!

What did you not understand, Mark? I apologize for not reading my post in it's entirety.I use Logitech keyboard. My English may be wanting but I do my best.
I asked my wife who is an English speaker by birth and she understood. Thought that Dunnels comment after my mention of Fromm instead of Froom was harsh. I did indicate that it was possibly incorrect.Hence (sic).
Now I will watch the Formula 1 race in Austin.

[BDunnell]

Thought that Dunnels comment after my mention of Fromm instead of Froom was harsh. I did indicate that it was possibly incorrect.Hence (sic).

Exactly. You could very easily have looked it up and thus made it correct.

[loowisham]

Exactly. You could very easily have looked it up and thus made it correct.

Rather than hitting out at me for a error by one letter you choose to be cantankerous when you could just as easily let it go. You knew exactly whom I was speaking of.

[J4MIE]

I bought and use a full face helmet as I knew a guy years ago that fell of his bike with a normal helmet and smashed his face off the ground at some speed and had pretty bad injuries.

Might look a bit of a twat but I'm used to that anyway :p :

[ioan]

France & Italy are a lot, lot worse.

Just wait until you visit the Middle East or India! Now that is a lot worse then what you saw in Europe. And BTW I found that people in France drive rather well compared to many other European countries.

[ioan]

So was I. Car drivers take far greater note of two wheelers in both countries compared to the UK.



Car control is only one aspect but what about observation skills or defensive driving? How about reading the road ahead and other real life road skills?

Learning advanced driving skills should be seen as the norm, not something for dull autistic types.

Exactly, paying attention and anticipating the moves of the other people in traffic is what is most important. Sadly I come to the conclusion that 50% of all drivers don't have and can't learn these skills. The worse part is that getting a driving license is more about being able to steer a car and stop at a STOP sign, that's pretty much it. Being proactive while driving is not a pre-requisite to getting a driving license, which is a pity.