Kris meeke- the fastest driver with no seat

[EMG1]

Anyone agree kris Meeke should be in the wrc? Ok he crashes a lot but the stages he did compete in his times were usually in the top 5/6. He also did come 5th in spain and 4th in GB in a relatively new car. As for all the retirments maybe he was just pushing to hard to try and prove himself, we all know you can fine tune a fast driver to help him stay on the road but you cant make a slow driver fast. Meeke has the speed! It depresses me to watch chris Atkinson in the mini, one of the wost drivers in the wrc, he could nt even beat ogier in the S2000 car! Ok I know Ogier is a special talent but for a former factory driver he shouldnt be struggling like that. It seems to be now a days what ever driver brings the most money/sponsors to the table gets the seat. I used to be a keen WRC follower but im drifting away like so many others. I want to see drivers like Dani Sordo, Kris Meeke, Juho Hanninen, maybe kopecky in the WRC fighting for podiums. I dont want to see Atkinson, block, Nobre. although they may not be there next year anyways due to other commitments. Anyone agree?

[MikeD]

Anyone agree kris Meeke should be in the wrc?

No, he is not fast enough and he crashes to much. He's not on WRC level - he had his chance and he blew it.

[AndyRAC]

He’s never done a full season in a WRCar – so you can’t rate him properly – too small a sample size. He has shown pace, which is what is needed – yes, he’s had the odd off, but who hasn’t? He is good enough for a full factory seat, but sadly there aren’t any.

[Mintexmemory]

5th in spain and 4th in GB in a relatively new car from only 6 starts. How exactly is that 'blowing it'?
Faster than Hanninen and Loix (at Ypres!) in the 207. Won San Remo beating Rossetti in his own backyard. Fast enough given the machinery at any level, or do slow drivers win WRC Power Stages when the championship is still open?

[Barreis]

Money needed these days in WRC.

[Nornbugger]

Anyone agree kris Meeke should be in the wrc? Ok he crashes a lot but the stages he did compete in his times were usually in the top 5/6. He also did come 5th in spain and 4th in GB in a relatively new car. As for all the retirments maybe he was just pushing to hard to try and prove himself, we all know you can fine tune a fast driver to help him stay on the road but you cant make a slow driver fast. Meeke has the speed! It depresses me to watch chris Atkinson in the mini, one of the wost drivers in the wrc, he could nt even beat ogier in the S2000 car! Ok I know Ogier is a special talent but for a former factory driver he shouldnt be struggling like that. It seems to be now a days what ever driver brings the most money/sponsors to the table gets the seat. I used to be a keen WRC follower but im drifting away like so many others. I want to see drivers like Dani Sordo, Kris Meeke, Juho Hanninen, maybe kopecky in the WRC fighting for podiums. I dont want to see :eek: Atkinson :eek: , block, Nobre. although they may not be there next year anyways due to other commitments. Anyone agree?

Atkinson is better than Kopecky, he is about Meekes level to be fair, used to believe in Meeke and in Santa, believe in neither now.

I would love Hanninen to get a proper chance in WRC, he is IMO better than Mikkelsen, he's not perfect but he has been much the best driver over the last 3 years in IRC and again IMO he has done more than enough to show he deserves a shot in a proper WRC, I'm a life long VW fan but my enthusiam for the team would go up a lot if they would give him a decent program next year.

[A FONDO]

No, he is not fast enough and he crashes to much. He's not on WRC level - he had his chance and he blew it.

This is perfectly true. Topic should be closed.

[rallyfiend]

Surely Sordo, Petter, Atkinson, Ostberg, Novikov are all quicker and more consistent than Meeke with no seat as yet for next year...

Did Meeke ever beat Sordo in the same car?

[Fly_Half]

Of those, I wouldn't say Atkinson or Novikov are any quicker or more consistent than Meeke. Given equivalent seat time in a decent car he'd wipe the floor with both of them.

[bf1_IRL]

Didn't Kris beat Oiger in Germany back in 2008 using an older Clio S1600 when Seb was in a PH Sport C2 S1600?

[Allyc85]

Novikov consistent? :laugh: :laugh:

Meeke did have that powerstage win and would easily had a podium at Rally GB (whilst Sordo was still picking himself out of the scenery) if it wasnt for car problems on day 2.


5th in spain and 4th in GB in a relatively new car from only 6 starts. How exactly is that 'blowing it'?
Faster than Hanninen and Loix (at Ypres!) in the 207. Won San Remo beating Rossetti in his own backyard. Fast enough given the machinery at any level, or do slow drivers win WRC Power Stages when the championship is still open?

Well said sir!

[wrc1600]

Didn't Kris beat Oiger in Germany back in 2008 using an older Clio S1600 when Seb was in a PH Sport C2 S1600?
So? How many WRC points has he got so far?

[rallyfun]

How is he different/faster from Mathiew Wilson?

[stefanvv]

Prodrive announced next year will have full programme. Sordo might be gone, wouldn't they offer Meeke a seat again?

[Fly_Half]

So? How many WRC points has he got so far?

How much financial backing has Kris had from his national motorsport authority? A. None
How much financial backing has Ogier had from his national motorsport authority? A. LOTS

How much seat time has Kris had in the WRC? A. Very little.
How much seat time has Ogier had in the WRC? A. LOTS

[Nornbugger]

How is he different/faster from Mathiew Wilson?


1 he is a different person, so that will be 100% different to Matthew Wilson
2 Wilson is not terribly fast but rarely bends the car, Meeke is very quick but often bends the car so again about 100% different

[EightGear]

That powerstage win in Spain was down to tyres and drying tarmac.

[Nornbugger]

So? How many WRC points has he got so far?

How many realistic chances has he had to score points?

I feel Meeke promised a lot, he is very quick but he needed to do more in the Mini than he did last year, sure more events would have been good but he still made too many errors. At the time some of his diehard fans said that he was building experience for next year, all lovely in theory except if he was learning events and not driving 100% then he should have been off the road less

[rallyfiend]

Prodrive announced next year will have full programme. Sordo might be gone, wouldn't they offer Meeke a seat again?

Prodrive said they'd have a full programme this year.

I wouldn't hold your breath on that happening next year.

[stefanvv]

Prodrive said they'd have a full programme this year.

Yes, but before BMW "surprised" them

[AndyRAC]

How is he different/faster from Mathiew Wilson?

That question deserves to be treated with the contempt it deserves....

[rallyfun]

How many realistic chances has he had to score points?

I feel Meeke promised a lot, he is very quick but he needed to do more in the Mini than he did last year, sure more events would have been good but he still made too many errors. At the time some of his diehard fans said that he was building experience for next year, all lovely in theory except if he was learning events and not driving 100% then he should have been off the road less

Don't get me wrong I like this guy but to say is fast or better than other driver you need to have some refference. All those theories about chances, money etc. sound more like exuse. First of all competitive driver finishes rallies, gets points, uses clever tactics, it's not only about being fast.

[rallyfun]

That question deserves to be treated with the contempt it deserves....

I meant "pointwise" he is no different from avarage drivers.

[rallyfiend]

Yes, but before BMW "surprised" them

No they didn't. Prodrive couldn't deliver on their side of the contract and tried to force BMW's hand.

They lost.

[Mintexmemory]

Don't get me wrong I like this guy but to say is fast or better than other driver you need to have some refference. All those theories about chances, money etc. sound more like exuse. First of all competitive driver finishes rallies, gets points, uses clever tactics, it's not only about being fast.

As you say 'uses clever tactics' - wasn't that evident. In the power stage win? Either he' s tactically aware or not but the spain stage win was clever or he was quick-you can't say no to both. I'm apalled at the level of ignorance on this thread - the guy won IRC in the only really competitive edition!

[RJM]

I agree hes the fastest driver without a seat, these people who doubt him only watch wrc and havent followed his career, what he did in the irc in 09 was amazing, without a couple of puctures he would had a maximum score for 7 rounds, and was winning rallies hes never been on before! meeke shown in the mini he fast on gravel and tarmac, people say he kept binning it but i remember the mini was problematic, like the throttle sticking open in sardinia, (it was a new car after all). If he was given a chance like ogier, sordo, neuville in the fastest most reliable car, im sure he would be challenging for championships by now. Hanninen and meeke both deserve to be in the wrc, we just need more factory cars available.

[Mintexmemory]

Ok Back from the pub and feeling really pee-oh'd as Schalke just beat Arsenal! - so I'll vent my spleen in educating some people who badly need it
pre-2010 KM had 2 'WRC' drives in "pre-loved" Impreza WRCs - GB '05 and Ireland '07
So in his first proper drive in a new car (not a pre-sorted C4 / DS3 / Focus or Fiesta. in 6 starts he scored 25 points + av just over 4 .16 per event
Ostberg 2006-10 competed in the Prodrive engineered Adapta team Impreza (+ 2 S2000 fiesta rides) in 29 WRC events scoring a number of 8th and 9th places
So he is hardly a novice in WRC when he gets the M-Sport drive in 2011 He does well -88 points in 12 starts (do the math) is not such a fantastic record compared to Meeke given a) his previous experience on many events and b) his 'sorted' machinery. Mads has improved this year and so he should given how much experience in WRC he now has (an example of a 5 year plan that worked ;) )
Perhaps Thierry Neuville - the great Citroen hope (apart from Chardonnet) is a better comparison. No WRC before 2012. 12 starts - 53 points including the odd visitation to the scenery. So in a factory supported, Loeb-sorted DS3 hes got an average of 4.41 - He looks like he's had his chance and blown it!!
Kris blew it when he was born, he didn't have a rich Dad! Shame it's not all about talent. ;)

[rallyfun]

I agree hes the fastest driver without a seat, these people who doubt him only watch wrc and havent followed his career, what he did in the irc in 09 was amazing, without a couple of puctures he would had a maximum score for 7 rounds, and was winning rallies hes never been on before! meeke shown in the mini he fast on gravel and tarmac, people say he kept binning it but i remember the mini was problematic, like the throttle sticking open in sardinia, (it was a new car after all). If he was given a chance like ogier, sordo, neuville in the fastest most reliable car, im sure he would be challenging for championships by now. Hanninen and meeke both deserve to be in the wrc, we just need more factory cars available.

What has a success in IRC to do with WRC? So far he didn't do anything special in WRC, competing against Kopecky and Hanninen in S2000 it's completly different story. Czech fans could say same things about Kopecky etc. You british fans are so sensitive about your drivers or rallies. Be realistic there are other very often better drivers out there and lack of interest in Meeke by rally teams is for reason.

[rallyfun]

As you say 'uses clever tactics' - wasn't that evident. In the power stage win? Either he' s tactically aware or not but the spain stage win was clever or he was quick-you can't say no to both. I'm apalled at the level of ignorance on this thread - the guy won IRC in the only really competitive edition!

This is one and the only example of he's achiement so far that proves nothing, one power stage win and few spectacular crashes in WRC. Prokop has won JWRC and special stage in S2000 car, why don't you think the same way about him or PG Andersson double JWRC champion?

[Mintexmemory]

What has a success in IRC to do with WRC? So far he didn't do anything special in WRC, competing against Kopecky and Hanninen in S2000 it's completly different story. Czech fans could say same things about Kopecky etc. You british fans are so sensitive about your drivers or rallies. Be realistic there are other very often better drivers out there and lack of interest in Meeke by rally teams is for reason.
They could say the same thing about Kopecky but in the only objective head to head measure of their relative merits he has always been second best to Meeke. So that's one level of achievement delineated. If Skoda didn't 'need' a Czech where would Kopecky have been? Shame there is no Ulster-based car industry (not even Delorean!)

[Mintexmemory]

This is one and the only example of he's achiement so far that proves nothing, one power stage win and few spectacular crashes in WRC. Prokop has won JWRC and special stage in S2000 car, why don't you think the same way about him or PG Andersson double JWRC champion?
And has Prokop ever looked like approaching a WRC podium? Has PG looked like winning IRC or SWRC? A power stage win in only his 3rd rally in the Mini? you are kidding - not an achievement. No wonder us Brits want nothing to do with Europe, unfortunately I cant be bothered to search for images of an elbow and an arse so I could teach you guys the difference!

[rallyfun]

They could say the same thing about Kopecky but in the only objective head to head measure of their relative merits he has always been second best to Meeke. So that's one level of achievement delineated. If Skoda didn't 'need' a Czech where would Kopecky have been? Shame there is no Ulster-based car industry (not even Delorean!)
So it is all about nationality then. In this case it's waste of time discussing this matter with british fans.

[Mintexmemory]

OK I've spontaneously combusted and am now having a long drink in a dark room !

[RJM]

Kopecky didnt win irc, mikklesen and neuville had success in the irc and look where they are now... I cant think of better drivers either.

[Mintexmemory]

So it is all about nationality then. In this case it's waste of time discussing this matter with british fans.
Well you were the one that brought it up (sits crossed -leg and chants om!)

[rallyfun]

And has Prokop ever looked like approaching a WRC podium? Has PG looked like winning IRC or SWRC? A power stage win in only his 3rd rally in the Mini? you are kidding - not an achievement. No wonder us Brits want nothing to do with Europe, unfortunately I cant be bothered to search for images of an elbow and an arse so I could teach you guys the difference!
What is this nonsens with approaching podium? Has he got it or not and why not if he's so fast and so good? What has happend in 2010 season in IRC with Meeke? Talk about facts not insinuation...

[RJM]

What is this nonsens with approaching podium? Has he got it or not and why not if he's so fast and so good? What has happend in 2010 season in IRC with Meeke? Talk about facts not insinuation...

Bad luck and big skoda budget...

[pettersolberg29]

What is this nonsens with approaching podium? Has he got it or not and why not if he's so fast and so good? What has happend in 2010 season in IRC with Meeke? Talk about facts not insinuation...

I don't know if people on here like you are joking or just not seeing it! Nobody is saying Meeke is going to win every race and is the fastest driver in the world - just that he's the best driver currently without a seat in the WRC (or under contract with VW in Ogier/Mikkelsen's case). He has had good results in the WRC in the Mini and was exceptional in the IRC against Hanninen/Basso/Rosetti etc and other specialists in their own events. Only Hanninen comes close in terms of drivers without a seat, but for people on here to rubbish Meeke's ability and achievements is a load of rubbish.

[Franky]

So this debate is between Englishmen and ?

[stefanvv]

What is this nonsens with approaching podium? Has he got it or not and why not if he's so fast and so good? What has happend in 2010 season in IRC with Meeke? Talk about facts not insinuation...

What is the problem Meeke gets WRC seat? I can't remember for anyone has such seat as cooked winner

[RJM]

So this debate is between Englishmen and ?

And a Czech dude i think!

[rallyfun]

I don't know if people on here like you are joking or just not seeing it! Nobody is saying Meeke is going to win every race and is the fastest driver in the world - just that he's the best driver currently without a seat in the WRC (or under contract with VW in Ogier/Mikkelsen's case). He has had good results in the WRC in the Mini and was exceptional in the IRC against Hanninen/Basso/Rosetti etc and other specialists in their own events. Only Hanninen comes close in terms of drivers without a seat, but for people on here to rubbish Meeke's ability and achievements is a load of rubbish.

If you read carefully my posts you don't find anything to rubbish Meeke's abiity or achievements and I said I like him. But can't agree he's the best driver without WRC seat as there are plenty of drivers probably better than him. And gloryfy his IRC title or stage win and ignore other drivers achievements is just not fair. I gave some examples already based on facts not my feelings.

[Mintexmemory]

So this debate is between Englishmen and ?Actually for once Britons
Kris is NOT English, just very talented ;)

[wildsir]

Maybe Meeke is clever... He is not paying 100K euros per rally to prove anything to anyone.

In the meantime he is testing for Citroen WRC team. The best WRC team in the history of rallying, must think he a waste of time.

Meeke set fastest times on tarmac and gravel in a under developed car, in his first 10 rallies in a WRC. I dont know of a another driver who has done that?

Latavala, 100 WRC start later, is still wrecking 300K euro cars for fun, so dont knock a driver for pushing the limits.

Meeke maybe has a fault that he doesnt give himself time to develop in the little seat time he had, but I would rather see than, than be a nearly man.

There is one thing you cant take away from Meeke, his speed. Put him in a DS3 and he be podium material on every surface.

[Mintexmemory]

And a Czech dude i think!
Actually the myopic perp of this mayhem is now conspicuous by his absence - thinking of more Cojones to spout no doubt
(mental note : don't get into arguments on forums when a) your team has lost b) you've had a few)

[RJM]

Actually the myopic perp of this mayhem is now conspicuous by his absence - thinking of more Cojones to spout no doubt
(mental note : don't get into arguments on forums when a) your team has lost b) you've had a few)

Haha Good point!

[stefanvv]

Maybe Meeke is clever... He is not paying 100K euros per rally to prove anything to anyone.

In the meantime he is testing for Citroen WRC team. The best WRC team in the history of rallying, must think he a waste of time.

Meeke set fastest times on tarmac and gravel in a under developed car, in his first 10 rallies in a WRC. I dont know of a another driver who has done that?

Latavala, 100 WRC start later, is still wrecking 300K euro cars for fun, so dont knock a driver for pushing the limits.

Meeke maybe has a fault that he doesnt give himself time to develop in the little seat time he had, but I would rather see than, than be a nearly man.

There is one thing you cant take away from Meeke, his speed. Put him in a DS3 and he be podium material on every surface.

No, Citroen is not the best team in WRC, but Loeb is the best driver. Meeke can do well not only with Citroen, if you think so, we are wasting time over here in this thread.

[A.F.F.]

Maybe Meeke is clever... He is not paying 100K euros per rally to prove anything to anyone.

In the meantime he is testing for Citroen WRC team. The best WRC team in the history of rallying, must think he a waste of time.

Meeke set fastest times on tarmac and gravel in a under developed car, in his first 10 rallies in a WRC. I dont know of a another driver who has done that?

Latavala, 100 WRC start later, is still wrecking 300K euro cars for fun, so dont knock a driver for pushing the limits.

Meeke maybe has a fault that he doesnt give himself time to develop in the little seat time he had, but I would rather see than, than be a nearly man.

There is one thing you cant take away from Meeke, his speed. Put him in a DS3 and he be podium material on every surface.

It's amazing that teams fail to see there is the best driver in the world available!! :eek:

[Mintexmemory]

No, Citroen is not the best team in WRC, but Loeb is the best driver. Meeke can do well not only with Citroen, if you think so, we are wasting time over here in this thread.
You have mis understood the point - stop using Google translate!!

[rallyfun]

No, Citroen is not the best team in WRC, but Loeb is the best driver. Meeke can do well not only with Citroen, if you think so, we are wasting time over here in this thread.

8 out of 10 titles in last 10 years and you think Citroen is not the best?

[Mintexmemory]

It's amazing that teams fail to see there is the best driver in the world available!! :eek:
No one has said that, and before you start there is a reason why Gaardemeister, Raantenen, Ketomaa etc haven't made it - Ashphalt!! (even Mikko)
Come on 'oo wants some!!

[Mintexmemory]

8 out of 10 titles in last 10 years and you think Citroen is not the best?
Ah hem - I wouldn't have said that !!

[pettersolberg29]

If you read carefully my posts you don't find anything to rubbish Meeke's abiity or achievements and I said I like him. But can't agree he's the best driver without WRC seat as there are plenty of drivers probably better than him. And gloryfy his IRC title or stage win and ignore other drivers achievements is just not fair. I gave some examples already based on facts not my feelings.

It's not just you, but others too who seem to think Meeke is nothing special. As I said, he's not the best in the world, but he's a solid driver who has shown he can compete with and beat the Ostberg's of this world, and that's no mean feat. But I am interested as to your view about who is better than Meeke who hasn't got a seat at the moment. Because I can't think of any except Hanninen (who's contracted to Skoda anyway!).

Also, this is nothing to do with Meeke's nationality - I'm as un-patriotic as they come and am not even a fan of Meeke, but still can recognise his ability.

[rallyfun]

No, Citroen is not the best team in WRC, but Loeb is the best driver. Meeke can do well not only with Citroen, if you think so, we are wasting time over here in this thread.

Really?

[EightGear]

Jeez... I didn't know some British fans could get so mad about something like this...

[A.F.F.]

No one has said that, and before you start there is a reason why Gaardemeister, Raantenen, Ketomaa etc haven't made it - Ashphalt!! (even Mikko)
Come on 'oo wants some!!

Before I start... I'll let you come sober again :p

[Mintexmemory]

Before I start... I'll let you come sober again :p

:beer: :p :

[pettersolberg29]

Jeez... I didn't know some British fans could get so mad about something like this...

It's quite annoying how this looked like a British thing, but I don't think it is. The fact Meeke is from Northern Ireland means nothing to me and has no bearing on how I see him. It's more the point blank naivety and denial from some people that's a bit annoying. As for Mintexmemory, I'm pretty sure half the rage is alcohol-related :P

[rallyfun]

It's not just you, but others too who seem to think Meeke is nothing special. As I said, he's not the best in the world, but he's a solid driver who has shown he can compete with and beat the Ostberg's of this world, and that's no mean feat. But I am interested as to your view about who is better than Meeke who hasn't got a seat at the moment. Because I can't think of any except Hanninen (who's contracted to Skoda anyway!).

Also, this is nothing to do with Meeke's nationality - I'm as un-patriotic as they come and am not even a fan of Meeke, but still can recognise his ability.
That is the problem of this topic as we can't really be right with any driver until we put them into the cars and let them drive few rallies. But hipothetically if we talk strictly about WRC and by that I mean WRC cars with "proper" program there is plenty (Ogier, Sordo, Mikkelsen, Hanninen, PG Andersson, Abrring, Duval). Of course first 3 will have a seat next season apparently but I guess we talk about 2012.

[Mintexmemory]

It's quite annoying how this looked like a British thing, but I don't think it is. The fact Meeke is from Northern Ireland means nothing to me and has no bearing on how I see him. It's more the point blank naivety and denial from some people that's a bit annoying. As for Mintexmemory, I'm pretty sure half the rage is alcohol-related :P

Actuallly I'm as sober as a judge! I just get annoyed when people don't support their prejudices with reasoned argument. Sweeping statements like 'he had his chance and he blew it' demonstrate a superficiality that is mind-blowing in its profundity (make sense of that I dare you).
Just like you, this is anything but nationalistic I just have found, late in life, that I'm BS-intolerant!

[pettersolberg29]

That is the problem of this topic as we can't really be right with any driver until we put them into the cars and let them drive few rallies. But hipothetically if we talk strictly about WRC and by that I mean WRC cars with "proper" program there is plenty (Ogier, Sordo, Mikkelsen, Hanninen, PG Andersson, Abrring, Duval). Of course first 3 will have a seat next season apparently but I guess we talk about 2012.

The first 4 of that list all have deals with VW or Skoda though, so weren't turned down for a WRC seat. PG is not as good as Meeke on any surface except snow, and I don't think many if any would disagree with that. Abbring is a talent but not yet experienced enough for a WRC seat, and Duval is talented but not consistent or professional enough, and been away from the game for too long. Sorry but that's just the truth - I agree we can't be 100% sure until we've seen everyone in a good/equal car for a large sample of rallies, but all the evidence/knowledge we have points towards Meeke as the best option without a WRC seat or some sort of contract.

[stefanvv]

You have mis understood the point - stop using Google translate!!

I'm not using it, but may be I should have. What was the point?

[pettersolberg29]

Actuallly I'm as sober as a judge! I just get annoyed when people don't support their prejudices with reasoned argument. Sweeping statements like 'he had his chance and he blew it' demonstrate a superficiality that is mind-blowing in its profundity (make sense of that I dare you).
Just like you, this is anything but nationalistic I just have found, late in life, that I'm BS-intolerant!

"A superficiality that is mind-blowing in its profundity" has to be one of the greatest phrases ever uttered on here, especially this time of night! But I am in total agreement - I'm yet to hear a reason why Meeke isn't a good option, let alone if there is any better option

[A.F.F.]

I have nothing against Kris Meeke. I actually felt bad how Prodrive treated him because I was curious to see if he had reached his peak as a driver. But the fact is that he got shadowed by Sordo when he drove Mini. I got to see him live at NORF. The only impression of him was that he managed to stall his car in a downhill curve, in a location I didn't think it was possible to stall a car ?? Anayway, should he drive DS3 I still can't see him as a permanent podium visitor. Not as long as Ogier, Latvala and Hirvonen are around. Against Ostberg, I don't think so either. Which reminds me again very awkward transition. We have a very narrow range of top drivers at the moment :mark:

But I do think he deserves a shot as do anybody else.

[pettersolberg29]

I have nothing against Kris Meeke. I actually felt bad how Prodrive treated him because I was curious to see if he had reached his peak as a driver. But the fact is that he got shadowed by Sordo when he drove Mini. I got to see him live at NORF. The only impression of him was that he managed to stall his car in a downhill curve, in a location I didn't think it was possible to stall a car ?? Anayway, should he drive DS3 I still can't see him as a permanent podium visitor. Not as long as Ogier, Latvala and Hirvonen are around. Against Ostberg, I don't think so either. Which reminds me again very awkward transition. We have a very narrow range of top drivers at the moment :mark:

But I do think he deserves a shot as do anybody else.

Being beaten by Sordo is nothing to be ashamed of though. He's among the top 5 rally drivers in the world. But as you say, the narrow range of top drivers - with only Loeb, JML, Mikko, Ogier, Petter and Sordo really being able to consistently be right at the sharp end in my view - makes it more important for drivers like Meeke and Hanninen to get a chance and for drivers like Atkinson and Wilson to step aside as they've shown that they don't have the ability to breach that gap. Who knows, but maybe Meeke (among others) can breach the gap.

[stefanvv]

I agree, anyone who's giving everything he can to be faster deserves a seat. Meeke looks one of those guys.

[Mintexmemory]

I'm not using it, but may be I should have. What was the point?
It's late, the waiters want to finish, the Australians will be here soon. Have one for the road and read the thread from the start in the morning! Citroen are great, Loeb is Great and if Meeke had been in the DS3 he wouldn't have been off the podium (but would have followed team orders if he knew what was good for him) all year. That was the point - Bonne Nuit, Guten Nacht Buona Notte

[A.F.F.]

I'm afraid Hänninen's train already left the station and he wasn't in it. What comes to Meeke, he already got so close to WRC seat that it's morally wrong he is not driving there with others.

[stefanvv]

8 out of 10 titles in last 10 years and you think Citroen is not the best?

I'm not keen to OT, but what is this thing 8 of 10. So Citroen foresaw they had the future champion and threw everything they got to continue winning with him. How long they would be around if they didn't have Loeb? No one knows. I would use different drivers argument for this.

[Mintexmemory]

I'm afraid Hänninen's train already left the station and he wasn't in it. What comes to Meeke, he already got so close to WRC seat that it's morally wrong he is not driving there with others.
:) what was Meeke's quote when informed by Prodrive he was not required for 2012?
Something along the lines that the girl of your dreams, who you thought was forever, phones you to tell you she's going to work as a prostitute.
It's business and the money talks - morals really don't enter into it, sadly.

[A.F.F.]

Last call Mintexmemory, now you're getting emotional. Next thing you try to hug us. :D

[Mintexmemory]

Last call Mintexmemory, now you're getting emotional. Next thing you try to hug us. :D

:) I fell asleep before seeing the last post. No matter how emotional I may become man-hugging is not on the agenda, damn it I'm English.
(Although I'm sure there may have been occasions when I've been in the street, sitting on a doorstep trying to get up, saying to my friend; " You know mate, I really, really love you!". We never mention such things the next day ;) )

[A.F.F.]

That last example is an universal thing, we do that also. However, since we drink and do suicides way more than you guys, after we have revealed our love to each others (again) we finish our night with a statement that Finland is a great country and sing familiar songs when Finland won the world championship in icehockey. Then we start fighting.

[Franky]

This thread is quality humor.

[KickenRallySport]

I think PG are faster than Kris Meeke, not on tarmac but on all other surfaces.. End of discussion.

[pettersolberg29]

I think PG are faster than Kris Meeke, not on tarmac but on all other surfaces.. End of discussion.

Well I think Meeke is faster. End of discussion!

[rallye-vid]

I think both are faster than me. End of discussion!

[Fly_Half]

I think PG are faster than Kris Meeke, not on tarmac but on all other surfaces.. End of discussion.

Sir, I do believe you have mistaken your own opinion for fact.

[cali]

Sir, I do believe you have mistaken your own opinion for fact.
Reality check, Kris is still without a drive while others are hired for a whole season.

[Mintexmemory]

Reality check, Kris is still without a drive while others are hired for a whole season.
Really?
PG
Hannninen
Ketomaa
Sandell
Paddon
Breen
All got WRC rides - when did this happen

Looks like they'll all be yesterday's men before some of them have had today if Young Mr Evans keeps improving at his current rate!
As for being hired it's Hirvonen, Neuville, Ogier, Tanak, Latvala and Mikkelsen. Everyone else pays.
I exclude Sordo because who knows what he's doing next year!

[cali]

At least Hänninen gets paid by Škoda. I believe PG as well. Rallying is not only WRC.
Paddon will be works driver or thereabouts. Still young.

Don't get me wrong, I've been Meeke fan as long as he started driving Pug 106 in BRC, but sitting at home is not doing good favours for him.

[Mintexmemory]

He doesn't have a rich Dad and has nothing to prove in S2000 - what else is he supposed to do?

[AndyRAC]

He doesn't have a rich Dad and has nothing to prove in S2000 - what else is he supposed to do?

Exactly! He's very little chance of getting any sponsorship, coming from the UK, and if he did - what good would 1 or 2 events do? Nothing. It's just another poor reflection on the sport. There does a time when you say enough is enough.

If I was advising a youngster going into Motorsport, at the moment, I'd tell them to go circuit racing, so much more opportunities.

[rallyfun]

Really?
PG
Hannninen
Ketomaa
Sandell
Paddon
Breen
All got WRC rides - when did this happen

Looks like they'll all be yesterday's men before some of them have had today if Young Mr Evans keeps improving at his current rate!
As for being hired it's Hirvonen, Neuville, Ogier, Tanak, Latvala and Mikkelsen. Everyone else pays.
I exclude Sordo because who knows what he's doing next year!
How do you know Tanak is getting paid? As far as I know at the bigging of the season he's budget was some 800000 euro.

[cali]

He doesn't have a rich Dad and has nothing to prove in S2000 - what else is he supposed to do?
Oh, so Hänninen and PG both have rich dad's! Good to know.
And you have always something to prove, but I guess sitting back at home gives you advantage over guys who are doing 10-14 rallyes per season.

You still have provided nothing but excuses. The fact is that Kris is not driving and thus chances of him getting factory seat is getting smaller each day. Only real chance for him is Prodrive getting proper funding, hopefully. :)

[AndyRAC]

What do you want him to do? Visit the money tree at the bottom of his garden? Like everybody else he has bills/ mortgage to pay....British companies aren’t interested in a minority Motorsport with no mainstream coverage.

He is at least doing some test & development work for Citroen – as a qualified engineer...so his feedback is good.

[Mintexmemory]

^ +1
Additionally what good other than paying the mortgage is PG's Proton drive doing him - at best he trails Breen and Paddon (who are trailing Ogier and Mikkelsen). At worst he is beaten by a rookie team mate. Great for Juha, long term S2000 driver but apparently not good enough for VW. So they may not have rich Dad's but are they really demonstrating ambition? Mikkelsen is a very lucky bunny, I understand he'd just about used up the Dad-cash when Skoda UK and Italia came calling (although this looks like VW at work back then because he was fast and perhaps importantly, having not won anything at that stage, cheap).
Sadly, unlike Sweden, there aren't enough UK hard-core fans to pay for a ride as a one-off for Kris, but what good did that do PG?
I thought Ott had a 5 year contract with M-Sport or is that just an option to give Malc lots of cash? Can you shed any light on that relationship

[Viking]

^ Mikkelsen is a very lucky bunny, I understand he'd just about used up the Dad-cash when Skoda UK and Italia came calling (although this looks like VW at work back then because he was fast and perhaps importantly, having not won anything at that stage, cheap).


Nah, you forgot this bit (2009 and 2010 season) I think we can say it was Erik Veiby (Even Rally) that saved Mikkels career.

"The global financial recession put the brakes on Andreas’ rallying career. Having contested 15 rounds of the WRC in a Focus WRC in the last two years, scoring points and building up extensive experience, he was to contest just one WRC event over the next two years.

Erik Veiby, who as chairman of the Rally Norway board had been so instrumental in bringing the WRC to Norway, asked Andreas’ father if he could help, and so began a new partnership where Erik looks after Andreas’ rally interests. As manager, Erik was aware of the slight jealousy some felt towards Andreas’ ability to drive a Focus WRC at such a young age, but Erik could only see his talent. It was time to put Andreas head-to-head with is adversaries in identical cars.

It was a brilliant plan. In 2009, Andreas became Group N Norwegian Rally Champion, he dominated the Subaru Cup and scored outright victory on the Rally Costa Brava in Spain – silencing his critics and gaining even more fans with his skill, honesty and sportsmanship. His only WRC event that year, in a Škoda Fabia WRC owned by Erik, ended prematurely with engine problems on Rally Poland. There was some Škoda joy that year, when Andreas finished 3rd on Rally Bohemia in the Czech Republic, driving a Fabia S2000.

Having finished 2nd in S-WRC and 11th overall on the Swedish Rally, Andreas gained important IRC experience by contesting seven rounds of the series later in 2010, finishing in the points on four occasions. He came a close second to Juho Hänninen (Škoda) on the RACMSA Rally of Scotland, and won the inaugural Love Cyprus Golden Stage Rally in a Hankook-backed Ford Fiesta S2000.

Having rallied a Škoda Rally Team Italia Fabia S2000 on the Rallye de France (Round 11 of the 2010 WRC) Andreas took the car to a sensational S-WRC victory on Wales Rally GB, finishing 10th overall on the final round of the WRC. He ended a successful 2010 by winning the WRC class on the Solberg Extreme MotorShow in Oslo and the Super 2000 class at the Bologna Rallysprint, which was part of the Bologna Motor Show."

Andreas Mikkelsen | Andreas Mikkelsen (http://www.andreasmikkelsen.no/about/about-andreas/)

[cali]

^ +1
Additionally what good other than paying the mortgage is PG's Proton drive doing him - at best he trails Breen and Paddon (who are trailing Ogier and Mikkelsen). At worst he is beaten by a rookie team mate. Great for Juha, long term S2000 driver but apparently not good enough for VW. So they may not have rich Dad's but are they really demonstrating ambition? Mikkelsen is a very lucky bunny, I understand he'd just about used up the Dad-cash when Skoda UK and Italia came calling (although this looks like VW at work back then because he was fast and perhaps importantly, having not won anything at that stage, cheap).
Sadly, unlike Sweden, there aren't enough UK hard-core fans to pay for a ride as a one-off for Kris, but what good did that do PG?
I thought Ott had a 5 year contract with M-Sport or is that just an option to give Malc lots of cash? Can you shed any light on that relationship
Sorry mate, don't know lot about Tänak's contract with M-Sport. I only know that before Ott was mechanic in MM Motorsport, but he doesn't work there anymore. He is also established small rally team called "Oti rallkiklubi". Based on that information one can conclude that he receives somekind of salary from M-Sport.

[manta400]

I posted a couple of weeks ago re Kris's future... got some information this lunchtime that they are fine tuning a Citroen campaign, nothing finalised but getting there. Hope so

[Mintexmemory]

Nah, you forgot this bit - a lot of information. Andreas Mikkelsen | Andreas Mikkelsen (http://www.andreasmikkelsen.no/about/about-andreas/)

Thanks for the clarification, what a shame our MSA doesn't concern itself with 'proper' assistance for top UK talent (and before I'm flamed, all of the current RAC MSA programmes fall a long way short of the sort of assistance described by Viking)

BTW V, you don't happen to work in PR by any chance ;)

[AndyRAC]

Thanks for the clarification, what a shame our MSA doesn't concern itself with 'proper' assistance for top UK talent (and before I'm flamed, all of the current RAC MSA programmes fall a long way short of the sort of assistance described by Viking)

BTW V, you don't happen to work in PR by any chance ;)

Hmm, think that's an old problem. RACC, FFSA, ADAC, KNAF, etc all support their young drivers......MSA offer PR coaching, driver training and physical aptitude tests...but no cash.
MSA/IMS couldn't even put Kris (ot another Brit) in a car for their home event.

[tfp]

MSA/IMS couldn't even put Kris (ot another Brit) in a car for their home event.

:(
What a shame. I'm reading the flying scot's book at the minute and remembering the media crazyness when he and Burnsy competed in GB. We need more of that!

[tommeke_B]

With some luck Elfyn Evans and Craig Breen, very talented drivers who can perform on both asphalt and gravel. :)

[AndyRAC]

With some luck Elfyn Evans and Craig Breen, very talented drivers who can perform on both asphalt and gravel. :)

One is British, one is from Eire.

[cali]

One is British, one is from Eire.
Does it really matter?

[tommeke_B]

One is British, one is from Eire.
What's the problem with that? They both speak the same language and after all the 2 countries are just next to each other... No? ;)

[cali]

What's the problem with that? They both speak the same language and after all the 2 countries are just next to each other... No? ;)
Most important - both belong to the human race ;)

[Mintexmemory]

Most important - both belong to the human race ;)

:rolleyes: Don't make me have to go through it all again. Despite both being members of countries that have celtic languages promoted by their respective 'governments (and therefore having more in common than either country has with England) They are only 'next' to each other in the same way that UK is to France, i.e. separated by more of the wet, flowing stuff than the Straits of Dover.
Yes both fine members of the human race, and to all knowledgable rally fans both exciting prospects.
However, Breen is not British and is not promotable as such to increase UK rally interest. EE, like it or not, is hard to promote to Joe Public outside of Wales; which is part of the problem, as I understand it, that his Dad had in securing works drives. Hope that the MSA PR work gives Elfyn the ability to get the wider profile he deserves (and needs).

[AndyRAC]

What's the problem with that? They both speak the same language and after all the 2 countries are just next to each other... No? ;)

It's not a problem. Though Irish fans don't like their drivers being thought of as British; for example: Breen, Cronin, etc

[Plan9]

Anyone heard anything new? Meeke has had nothing on his website since doing Baja.

[tommeke_B]

Reminds me of guys like Duval and Galli... Very talented, but at some point when they were without a seat, they seemed to be too picky... Maybe that is the case with Kris Meeke as well? If you accept only the best (let's say a contract in a WRC-team), there is a chance you end up with nothing. With youngsters like Neuville, Ostberg, Novikov, Mikkelsen, Tanak etc showing themselves more and more, I don't expect a bright future for Kris Meeke (but I hope I'm wrong, he's a great driver).

[Mintexmemory]

Reminds me of guys like Duval and Galli... Very talented, but at some point when they were without a seat, they seemed to be too picky... Maybe that is the case with Kris Meeke as well? If you accept only the best (let's say a contract in a WRC-team), there is a chance you end up with nothing. With youngsters like Neuville, Ostberg, Novikov, Mikkelsen, Tanak etc showing themselves more and more, I don't expect a bright future for Kris Meeke (but I hope I'm wrong, he's a great driver).

Tom, the bottom line is he has no money to buy a drive and no one is offering anything - I'm sure if there was a WRC2 or ERC offer he would take it but there isn't a vacancy anywhere.

[AndyRAC]

I’m not sure if people are aware how bad the situation is in the UK/ Ireland. There is very little sponsorship money around – especially for a non-visible sport. Unless someone gives him a drive – he, and others like him, will be sitting on their backsides.

[Plan9]

I know what you mean Andy. I think the situation in the Uk/Irl cannot be underestimated and it probably does have a huge baring on his situation. For example, I read a few years back that Kris thought he was lucky to get the Kronos drive back in 2009 despite the economic situation, and that was 3 years ago. With Prodrive in some difficulty I don't think we will be seeing him in rallying for quite some time yet. Paddon in NZ is in much the same position, we just do not have enough money for him to drive a customer wrc car at the moment, unless Red bull take a chance on him.

I would like to know why Motorsport Italia chose Atko and not Meeke and how Prodrive was so cash strapped they could not give him a ride anywhere.

[Mintexmemory]

I know what you mean Andy. I think the situation in the Uk/Irl cannot be underestimated and it probably does have a huge baring on his situation. For example, I read a few years back that Kris thought he was lucky to get the Kronos drive back in 2009 despite the economic situation, and that was 3 years ago. With Prodrive in some difficulty I don't think we will be seeing him in rallying for quite some time yet. Paddon in NZ is in much the same position, we just do not have enough money for him to drive a customer wrc car at the moment, unless Red bull take a chance on him.

I would like to know why Motorsport Italia chose Atko and not Meeke and how Prodrive was so cash strapped they could not give him a ride anywhere.

I suspect becaus Atko already had a Proton income he was prepared to do the MI gig for peanuts or free. He needed a shop window and MI wanted to show they had aproduct worth hiring

[Kielder]

http://yfrog.com/scaled/landing/735/g8uocr.jpg

So the rumours of being linked with Hyundai aren't true. In fact, more rounds at the wheel of the DS3 are possible. Driving in Finland is a stand-in for Khalid Al Qassimi (the choice is between Kris & Atko).
Meeke tested the car in October:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKlHMzDnItc&feature=youtu.be

[noel157]

I think it was October Meeke had that test, but no odds. Hopefully something will happen.

[Kielder]

I think it was October Meeke had that test, but no odds. Hopefully something will happen.

Yep, little mistake :) . I'd prefer him linked to a long development programme with Hyundai, as VW's one last year, though it's better than nothing.

[Allyc85]

Fingers crossed for Kris, would love to see him competing in a proper car!

[MrJan]

I’m not sure if people are aware how bad the situation is in the UK/ Ireland. There is very little sponsorship money around – especially for a non-visible sport. Unless someone gives him a drive – he, and others like him, will be sitting on their backsides.

Reminds me of hearing someone (jokingly) say that in Ireland at the minute it's a case of 'Buy 1 WRC, get 1 free'. Things seem to be quite bleak at the minute, even entries for the Wyedean were quite a bit down.

[steffforno]

Meeke last year before the Wrc Sardinia tested the Ds3 WRC of Ph Sport!!! The test Was Italy

[BOZIANracing]

Reminds me of hearing someone (jokingly) say that in Ireland at the minute it's a case of 'Buy 1 WRC, get 1 free'. Things seem to be quite bleak at the minute, even entries for the Wyedean were quite a bit down.

It has improved a bit over the last couple of years.Our national championship (2nd tier) attracts full entry lists, with sometimes 7 or 8 WRCs. Our main championship (the Irish Tarmac) sometimes struggles for entries, mainly because of the multi day format and high entry fee. Far cry from the mid 2000s, when we had sometimes over 20 WRC cars on each rally, of which maybe 5 were driven properly. In Ulster 2006, Meeke lead for a while in a C2 S1600, then in 2007 he won Killarney (first time in WRC on tar, new co driver in Jonas Andersson) and the Ulster, which he dominated. A lot of the sponsorship in rallying here was provided by building companies, of which most have closed due to the economic collapse, therefore entry lists suffered

[noel157]

Forgot to mention Kris has entered into a long term contract....

He got married to Danielle last week. Congratulations.

[A FONDO]

who is she? pics needed

[rallyfiend]

who is she? pics needed

Peugeot UK Rally 2010 - Kris Meeke in a TV Ad - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5aU0wZDoA8)

[rallyfiend]

who is she? pics needed

Peugeot 207: Kris Meeke (Shopping Rally) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5ploC3ef_4)

[A FONDO]

Thanks, I've seen these before but hadn't known she is his real partner. Good choice, congratulations!

[rallyfiend]

I was joking, clearly....

[A FONDO]

[attachment=1:k6j0ixfm]732_spanking.gif[/attachment:k6j0ixfm]

[noel157]

Rallycoss with a couple of other blokes in some old Peugeot car:

Kris Meeke to make European Rallycross debut in France - Rallycross news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108825)

[noel157]

Fast.......Meeke shocked by rallycross Peugeot 208's performance - Rallycross news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108853)

[Hazza555)]

I think jury is out on this thread...

[Plan9]

Despite his accident, Kris did well in finland and should be confident he has as much chance as Dani to get the Citroen seat next year. Maybe he will be in Germany or another tarmac round this year to gain more experience in the DS3.

[Plan9]

Despite his accident, Kris did well in finland and should be confident he has as much chance as Dani to get the Citroen seat next year. Maybe he will be in Germany or another tarmac round this year to gain more exyperience in the DS3.

[Mintexmemory]

Despite his accident, Kris did well in finland and should be confident he has as much chance as Dani to get the Citroen seat next year. Maybe he will be in Germany or another tarmac round this year to gain more exyperience in the DS3.

Germany entry list has closed and Khalid is back in the car. Finland was a success for Kris but the Hyundai shoot out willl provide the empirical proof about the title of this thread. However, Kris needs some assurances if and when Citroen start talking contracts so I imagine he'll still be at the show down (cue E Morricone music)

[Barreis]

Can't see how can Meeke ever be faster in one season then Ogier... ERC is good for him, he can win there the championship...

[BOZIANracing]

Can't see how can Meeke ever be faster in one season then Ogier... ERC is good for him, he can win there the championship...
If thats the case then should we send everyone to the ERC except Ogier? Because no-one is at his level currently. Meeke might be older than many of the current drivers but has only a fraction of their experience. Give him a chance, every post you make related to Meeke is negative, did you get hit by a stone from his car or something?

[Barreis]

How could I be negative about somebody who was protege of C.McRae?! We'll see in Australia where he'll be nominated for manu points what result will be, crash or finish...

[noel157]

Germany entry list has closed and Khalid is back in the car. Finland was a success for Kris but the Hyundai shoot out willl provide the empirical proof about the title of this thread. However, Kris needs some assurances if and when Citroen start talking contracts so I imagine he'll still be at the show down (cue E Morricone music)

Unlikely he'll be at the Hyundai gig. He has a PSA contract and has had for sometime.
I think he has more opportunity/chance with them than chasing another position.

[NxOxT]

you cannot expect to build your career when you are in your 30s and waiting from some nobody rich saudi to give you chances...

the boat has long sailed for meeke for a career int he World rally Championship... unfortunatelly for him and some other fast drivers who with proper backing could do good things in he sport they fell victims to this whole motorsport cost cutting recession thing...

Only hope is that Hyundai builds a proper car and gives meeke a chance.... but the early videos are dissapointing...

[tfp]

you cannot expect to build your career when you are in your 30s and waiting from some nobody rich saudi to give you chances...

the boat has long sailed for meeke for a career int he World rally Championship... unfortunatelly for him and some other fast drivers who with proper backing could do good things in he sport they fell victims to this whole motorsport cost cutting recession thing...

Only hope is that Hyundai builds a proper car and gives meeke a chance.... but the early videos are dissapointing...


Woah,I thought AFF's hurricane had blown the mouse fart away!
Good to have you back, even if its with a different username ;)

And, I must say I'm not holding my breath with Hyundai's rally campaign either...

[NxOxT]

this place was reeking with politeness and compliments to every tourist and nobody driver.... time for the mods to earn their pay once more.... not as often as before though... do not want to spoil you.

[tommeke_B]

@NOT, Gronholm was building his carreer while in his 30's. :) So it can be done. Meeke is a very talented driver but is IMO driving way too agressive. In fact it often looks like he is "over-driving", attacking until you're at the point that you're not really gaining time with it anymore, but the chance of a crash increases... Same can be said about another very talented driver, Craig Breen.

About Hyundai, I don't believe there is any chance for Kris Meeke there. Citroën however... :) It doesn't take much to perform better than Sordo at this moment...

[NxOxT]

Yes but Gronholm is just 1 driver...you know anyone else that managed to do that so late ?? Also Gronholm was lucky and got his chances at a time where manufacturer invested in drivers no matter the cost... now i doubt they will do that... I amnot saying that Meeke is not fast...of course he is but does he have the money to support a career before he gets chosen ? and what future does he have when we see drivers who are much younger than him already being faster ?

[tommeke_B]

You see age as a "best before" label... For example Mikkelsen and Ostberg are younger, but have got the chance to gain much more experience in WRC than Meeke did. I doubt Mikkelsen or Ostberg have more margin for improvement than Meeke. ;) Looking at Citroën at the moment, they have 2 drivers who are over their peak, and who are not performing good enough. When you see Meeke being easily faster than Sordo in Finland, while he hasn't been competing for a while, it's quite clear to me. For me Meeke is one of the drivers who deserves a chance. If Citroën wants to do something proper next year, they need Neuville, Ostberg or Meeke, in stead of Sordo.

[makinen_fan]

Also Tommi Makinen raced his first WRC rally with a works car when 30 and first time full season at 31. Meeke may not go for championship but decent results are surely on the agenda with a good car.

Personally I would prefer to see him in a Citroen next year and not gamble with Hyundai, and if he is impressive then he may have a chance to jump ship to another team.

[Tom206wrc]

Can't wait for Rally Australia now :bounce:

[stefanvv]

You see age as a "best before" label... For example Mikkelsen and Ostberg are younger, but have got the chance to gain much more experience in WRC than Meeke did. I doubt Mikkelsen or Ostberg have more margin for improvement than Meeke. ;) Looking at Citroën at the moment, they have 2 drivers who are over their peak, and who are not performing good enough. When you see Meeke being easily faster than Sordo in Finland, while he hasn't been competing for a while, it's quite clear to me. For me Meeke is one of the drivers who deserves a chance. If Citroën wants to do something proper next year, they need Neuville, Ostberg or Meeke, in stead of Sordo.

Yes, Meeke has great potential, he has attitude to speed and I like such. But as you said he has lot to learn, and he can if he has given a chance in top team. Probably I can agree for Ostberg he had limit his potential, too bad he had bad luck this season with mechanical issues, did some crashes too (in Portugal if I remember right), but for Mikkelsen I'm not sure yet. It is his first (almost full season), probably there is more to come, he had some fast times recently, lets see if they're not a "glimpse"

[bt52b]

Freddie Flintoff took Kris for a roll!
A League Of Their Own - Freddie's rally crash - Sky1 HD (http://sky1.sky.com/a-league-of-their-own/a-league-of-their-own-freddies-rally-crash)

[MrJan]

I like the way that they have the panic of the rescue crew and "mobilising to the scene" for what was a reasonably gentle roll by rally standards.

[gabryere]

for me Kris Meeke is fast in car small, as S2000 or RRC

[Fly_Half]

I think PG are faster than Kris Meeke, not on tarmac but on all other surfaces.. End of discussion.

I've just re-read this thread from the beginning...and just wanted to highlight the above for posterity.

Thanks.

[rallyfun]

I gues we can close this topic now

[Andre Oliveira]

The baby face era are over now? Meeke is good, but not better than Sordo, Duval, etc... Bouffier are a good guy to Citroën, it is faster and french :)

[WUff1]

The baby face era are over now? Meeke is good, but not better than Sordo, Duval, etc... Bouffier are a good guy to Citroën, it is faster and french :)

Bouffier is fast and consistent, in contrary to Meeke, who is only fast.

[NxOxT]

Buffier is nothing... B class driver at best.

[WUff1]

Buffier is nothing... B class driver at best.

... as one can see in Poland now, won´t you agree? :dork:

[NxOxT]

leading a village event doesn't say much.

[Mirek]

Bryan is good but his real chances are over. He doesn't have the experience with WRC events one must have to succeed and moreover he has no strong personal sponsors. If he became a WRC regular ten or more years a go he could have been part of the top. Pity PSA never gave him even a full IRC season but only few occasional starts here and there. But I like him very much for his passion. There are plenty of drivers who would never tried any championship with a low budget effort when You never know if You do another event.

[rallyfun]

leading a village event doesn't say much.
To lead ERC rally says more than to crash in WRC. BTW only arogant ignorant can call ERC event (Second oldest rally in Europe) a village rally.

[HaCo]

Hope to see Meeke back again in WRC seat. He has proven he is faster than a lot of other WRC drivers.

[NxOxT]

Hope to see Meeke back again in WRC seat. He has proven he is faster than a lot of other WRC drivers.

really ? can you name a driver that HE GETS paid and Meeke is faster than ?

[HaCo]

It takes time in a WRC-car in a lot of WRC rally's with a lot of crashes to build full potential.

[NxOxT]

It takes time in a WRC-car in a lot of WRC rally's with a lot of crashes to build full potential.

I totally agree with that and that is the main reason why Meeke is without a seat...It doesn't worth the investment anymore or it is better to say that in the current financial situation of the sport Meeke unfortunately has no chance.

[Mirek]

I gues we can close this topic now

After the second crash today there's hardly any hope...

[Rallyper]

I gues we can close this topic now

After the second crash today there's hardly any hope...

I must admit it´s a bit disappointing that he has dismissed his chances. His speed when staying on the road is good for the competition. And for sure he´d learn after some trial and errors.

[makinen_fan]

He deserves a seat in a works team more than some others speedwise, eg Evgeny, Mads, but when he is not bringing money and on top of that he continue crashing like this, the future is not so bright for him

[Mirek]

I must admit it´s a bit disappointing that he has dismissed his chances. His speed when staying on the road is good for the competition. And for sure he´d learn after some trial and errors.

That's what I can't agree with. Kris has been driving all the time same way, be it in JWRC, IRC or now WRC. His driving style is very brutal (and awesome to spectate!). He had big moments, broken rims, hi-speed spins or something in every event. Sometimes he was lucky but more often not.

[WUff1]

Me too, I believe Kris Meeke won´t do any rally for some time after this desaster ... Citroen works seat? no chance now ... hope he will stay in rally sport at all!

[Franky]

Just a question out of curiosity. Who has crashed more, Meeke or JM Latvala?

[NxOxT]

Latvala.

[Mirek]

Depends if the question is about overall number or percentage from number of starts :)

[bt52b]

Very disappointing, but he still lacks seat time.

Matton made a big strategic error of not trying Kris or some else earlier in the season. He left it too late and put Kris under stupid pressure to try and save Citroen's season.

Still reckon Kris deserves a least two full seasons to see if he can build on his speed.

Never going to get consistency with proper seat time.

[NxOxT]

you have to realise that the golden years when teams and sponsors spent stupid money to invest on almost every driver with potential are long gone... maybe those years are never coming back. It is not a mistake by citroen... citroen/ford would love to have the funds to prepare for the future but they do not... It i not because of Citroen that meeke drove only these events... if they had the money they would have 10 meekes driving the whole season....

It is not about choices it is about money.

[rallyfun]

Anyway the truth is last three rallies Sordo 37 - Meeke 0

[Mirek]

Anyway the truth is last three rallies Sordo 37 - Meeke 0

That's nice but does not help to understand the real situation. Matton saw clearly through the season that a team of perfect No.2 drivers can't win the championship. This season is lost and he must desperately find some way to defeat Volkswagen and Ogier. With Hirvonen and Sordo he will never manage that. So he tried Meeke as a logical step when he was already in the team as main test driver. The attempt failed but that doesn't mean it didn't worth trying when there was nothing to loose.

[Rallyper]

Matton said he has a choice of 7-8 drivers on a list from which shall be decided drivers in next years line up. I guess we can count in Neuville as #1 driver. Why not a youngster like Pontus Tidemand (yes - I know what yuo´ll accuse me for) but he is one out of a very few drivers who has his future still coming. And he´s proven fast even in a WRC car. I think he´d be #3 i Citroen. Mikko of course stays at Citroen as #2.

[A FONDO]

you have to realise that the golden years when teams and sponsors spent stupid money to invest on almost every driver with potential are long gone... maybe those years are never coming back. It is not a mistake by citroen... citroen/ford would love to have the funds to prepare for the future but they do not... It i not because of Citroen that meeke drove only these events... if they had the money they would have 10 meekes driving the whole season....

It is not about choices it is about money.
well said. the era of mcrae and other wasters is gone. the factory seats are very few, the patience of team managers is even smaller. you must quickly prove you are efficient in the crashing : points collecting ratio, or you are gone. drivers like Ogier and Neuville are the future (and the presence of course)

[EightGear]

Matton said he has a choice of 7-8 drivers on a list from which shall be decided drivers in next years line up. I guess we can count in Neuville as #1 driver. Why not a youngster like Pontus Tidemand (yes - I know what yuo´ll accuse me for) but he is one out of a very few drivers who has his future still coming. And he´s proven fast even in a WRC car. I think he´d be #3 i Citroen. Mikko of course stays at Citroen as #2.

When did he say that?

I guess Hans Weijs would be one of them too.

[Andre Oliveira]

I think that its time to veterans: Loix

[Rallyper]

Matton said he has a choice of 7-8 drivers on a list from which shall be decided drivers in next years line up. I guess we can count in Neuville as #1 driver. Why not a youngster like Pontus Tidemand (yes - I know what yuo´ll accuse me for) but he is one out of a very few drivers who has his future still coming. And he´s proven fast even in a WRC car. I think he´d be #3 i Citroen. Mikko of course stays at Citroen as #2.

When did he say that?

I guess Hans Weijs would be one of them too.

I saw it on swedish WRC sum up programme tonight.

[NxOxT]

I think that its time to veterans: Loix

No.

[Andre Oliveira]

Loix still better than Meeke, Sordo,.... (My opinion).

Why only bet on young drivers? This is not football, nothing to win on future transfer...

[rallyfun]

Anyway the truth is last three rallies Sordo 37 - Meeke 0

That's nice but does not help to understand the real situation. Matton saw clearly through the season that a team of perfect No.2 drivers can't win the championship. This season is lost and he must desperately find some way to defeat Volkswagen and Ogier. With Hirvonen and Sordo he will never manage that. So he tried Meeke as a logical step when he was already in the team as main test driver. The attempt failed but that doesn't mean it didn't worth trying when there was nothing to loose.
I don't agree the season was lost, they were in quite good position to win manufacturers title. It is very likely that Sordo would bring some points from Australia. I think Matton was outspoken by Khalid with drivers choice.

[noel157]

Where do you think Sordo would have finished?

[rallyfun]

Where do you think Sordo would have finished?
Don't know but he could bring some points for Citroen, dispite all critics he is still consistant.

[noel157]

Yes he was consistent on gravel, just not to Citroen's standard of consistency. Unfortunate.

[Eli]

even though he made mistakes i would let meeke drive wales rally GB, after all it's his "home" rally and he could score solid points there, plus if Citroen do intend to retain his services for next year then he needs more time driving the DS3 WRC.

[bluuford]

I think there is not much to talk in this thread any more. Three big crashes in 2 rallies says it all. Yes he had the speed when he had the best starting position in Australia. But when the conditions were more equal then he started to drop down slowly until he crashed.

[Zeakiwi]

Meeke will likely be kept on as the test driver because they know he is reasonably quick for short tests.
How has Seb Chardonnet been going lately?

[Leon]

If Meeke's surname was Latvala then all his problem would be solved.... including the crashes....

yes I Know... Who said that life is fair....

[Andre Oliveira]

Next Meeke appearance should be course car with DS3 R5 at Alsace or Catalunya.

[Talbot]

Accoridng to WRC.com, Meeke still has an outside chance of a DS3 ride on Rally GB.

Now, if he screws that up.............................

[catty]

How has Seb Chardonnet been going lately?
Chardonnet is nowhere near fast enough to be considered for a works drive.
Then again, if he were judged on his gravel pace, neither is Sordo......

[jonkka]

Accoridng to WRC.com, Meeke still has an outside chance of a DS3 ride on Rally GB.

Now, if he screws that up.............................

When I read that, my first thought was "nice". Then I realized that by Rally GB, Citroen must have signed their drivers already - so what's the point (from Miss Kreeke's point of view, I mean)?

[dimviii]

point 1 other drivers still in their contracts
point 2 Meeke works driver for 2014.

[Mintexmemory]

How has Seb Chardonnet been going lately?
Chardonnet is nowhere near fast enough to be considered for a works drive.
Then again, if he were judged on his gravel pace, neither is Sordo......

Thought he was showing promise in Germany although Cronin was outright quicker. Both deserve to get the backing for an R5 campaign before they could be considered for WRC.

[tommeke_B]

Thought he was showing promise in Germany although Cronin was outright quicker. Both deserve to get the backing for an R5 campaign before they could be considered for WRC.
Don't say "both deserve to get the backing", but "both should work on a project". If a driver waits for someone to help with funding out of nowhere, good luck...

[Mintexmemory]

Thought he was showing promise in Germany although Cronin was outright quicker. Both deserve to get the backing for an R5 campaign before they could be considered for WRC.
Don't say "both deserve to get the backing", but "both should work on a project". If a driver waits for someone to help with funding out of nowhere, good luck...

True, as I'm sure they are working hard on this I wish them both much good luck! ;)

[RS]

I really hope Meeke hasn't blown his chance. He was surprisingly quick both in Finland and Oz considering his massive experience deficit.

As has been pointed out look at how many chances Latvala has had. We were all told it was ok because he was the quickest which turns out to have been a bit wide of the mark judging by this years performances.

[Talbot]

I hope for Meeke's sake that a perspective team boss will view (recent) crashes as part of the 95%/105% rule.
In as much as you can (possibly) reign in a 105% driver, but it's harder to get the last 5% out of a 95% driver.
Eg. McRae, Latvala etc

[Doon]

I hope for Meeke's sake that a perspective team boss will view (recent) crashes as part of the 95%/105% rule.
In as much as you can (possibly) reign in a 105% driver, but it's harder to get the last 5% out of a 95% driver.
Eg. McRae, Latvala etc

Agree with you, but teams are more focused on the Maunfacturers title more than the drivers now it seems, so need consistancy. I would pick Meeke over Sordo or Hirvonen, but i'm not a team boss.

[Tom206wrc]

The author of the thread should be happy, now that Meeke has a full season seat :D

[Rallyper]

Yes, truly a happy end so far. Let´s hope he´ll do a good job next year, for the sake of himself, Citroen and the rallysport in GB.

[Tom206wrc]

Well done on this first leg of Monte-Carlo, Kris Meeke :cool:

[noel157]

Well done Kris and Paul. I hope this week end has shown that Meeke can be competitive and does deserve a factory seat, despite what a few have said about him here over the years. Yep, they'll be a few offs during the season no doubt but he is going to have a good season.

Irish eyes are smiling.

[Eli]

hopefully in time we will be able to change this to- "Kris meeke- the fastest driver to challange Ogier", really hope so:)

[RAS007]

Just a terrific result for Kris, I am so happy for him. It is so terrific to see him on the podium, and to have a British driver back in the mix. I think Colin would be proud.

[A FONDO]

wait 'til he starts to get beaten by Mads on snow or gravel - he will quickly get frustrated and crash stupidly again

[RAS007]

wait 'til he starts to get beaten by Mads on snow or gravel - he will quickly get frustrated and crash stupidly again

Why don't you f*ck off?

[Eli]

time will tell, i think that now after we are through with monte-carlo, most of the other rallies have "normal" conditions so it will play a hand there to Meeke's rivals but as he said if he can finish the Monte and in the podium i bet he can finish the other rallies, as time passes i think and hope he'll have less retirements.

[dimviii]

wait 'til he starts to get beaten by Mads on snow or gravel - he will quickly get frustrated and crash stupidly again

Why don't you f*ck off?
thats my fault.Forget to sent him his pills.I am sorry.

[N.O.T]

wait 'til he starts to get beaten by Mads on snow or gravel - he will quickly get frustrated and crash stupidly again

that is not really necessary... Kris did a very good job here. The battle with ostberg will be very interesting indeed on gravel..on snow it will be unfair to compare the two.

In my mind the championship stars in mexico when it comes to judge how drivers perform... monte is more of a tyre gamble and a survival rally when conditions are like that and Sweden is a specialised event.

[RS]

wait 'til he starts to get beaten by Mads on snow or gravel - he will quickly get frustrated and crash stupidly again

that is not really necessary... Kris did a very good job here. The battle with ostberg will be very interesting indeed on gravel..on snow it will be unfair to compare the two.

In my mind the championship stars in mexico when it comes to judge how drivers perform... monte is more of a tyre gamble and a survival rally when conditions are like that and Sweden is a specialised event.

Spot on. Same applies to judging the Hyundai.

[Rallyper]

wait 'til he starts to get beaten by Mads on snow or gravel - he will quickly get frustrated and crash stupidly again

that is not really necessary... Kris did a very good job here. The battle with ostberg will be very interesting indeed on gravel..on snow it will be unfair to compare the two.

In my mind the championship stars in mexico when it comes to judge how drivers perform... monte is more of a tyre gamble and a survival rally when conditions are like that and Sweden is a specialised event.

RS specialised for whom? VW has JML, Huyndai has Juho, Citroen has Mads, Ford has Mikko. Are they not specialists on snow? Kris should, and I do think he will, be able to do a top five in RS regarding his speed and confidence. Judging rallydrivers according to most of guys here on forum must be done on every surface. Why are you so often blaiming nordic drivers not performing on tarmac... without taking measures for "specialised events"??

(This quote is answer for both quotes above)

[Barreis]

They all have specialists but Ogier wins (another dominant Seb)...:D

[N.O.T]

wait 'til he starts to get beaten by Mads on snow or gravel - he will quickly get frustrated and crash stupidly again

that is not really necessary... Kris did a very good job here. The battle with ostberg will be very interesting indeed on gravel..on snow it will be unfair to compare the two.

In my mind the championship stars in mexico when it comes to judge how drivers perform... monte is more of a tyre gamble and a survival rally when conditions are like that and Sweden is a specialised event.

RS specialised for whom? VW has JML, Huyndai has Juho, Citroen has Mads, Ford has Mikko. Are they not specialists on snow? Kris should, and I do think he will, be able to do a top five in RS regarding his speed and confidence. Judging rallydrivers according to most of guys here on forum must be done on every surface. Why are you so often blaiming nordic drivers not performing on tarmac... without taking measures for "specialised events"??

(This quote is answer for both quotes above)

I am talking about comparing drivers not judging them in general. For sure their performance counts on every event but when it comes to comparing 2 drivers i think we should exclude events who favor the one over another. On tarmac the surface is in the championship since the beginning and we have many events each year so each driver is obliged to do well if he is a contender, while snow is just 1 event per year.

[Rallyper]

Well, yes, OK. My quote did mostly regard Huyndai performance talk after your quote.

[RS]

[RS specialised for whom? VW has JML, Huyndai has Juho, Citroen has Mads, Ford has Mikko. Are they not specialists on snow?

Of course, but the majority of the calendar is not made up of events like this, so it is not possible to draw conclusions from Sweden for the rest of the season.


Judging rallydrivers according to most of guys here on forum must be done on every surface.

Correct :) In fact there are not enough pure tarmac events in this years calendar.


Why are you so often blaiming nordic drivers not performing on tarmac... without taking measures for "specialised events"??

I think there are fundamentally two different types of events in rallying, loose surface and sealed surface. Monte and Sweden are a bit different, Monte because of the conditions and Sweden because they drive on studs. I just see them as two iterations within that loose/sealed structure.

[KiwiWRCfan]

So who is the fastest driver with no seat now that Kris has a seat ?

[Rallyper]

To me, last post looks like a headline on a new topic?

[pantealex]

So who is the fastest driver with no seat now that Kris has a seat ?

gravel: Novikov
tarmac: Bouffier

[mm1]

So who is the fastest driver with no seat now that Kris has a seat ?

gravel: Novikov
tarmac: Bouffier

IMHO Tanak, but he has a partial programm

[Langdale Forest]

So who is the fastest driver with no seat now that Kris has a seat ?

gravel: Novikov
tarmac: Bouffier

bUT NOVIKOV CRASHES TOO MUCH TO Be seen as a proffesionol driver.

[Tom206wrc]

Not a bad rally Sweden so far for Kris Meeke(especially today's leg) :cool:

[A FONDO]

Certainly not bad, very mature approach.

[N.O.T]

If he manages to hold Ogier back it will be a great success.

[dimviii]

If he manages to hold Ogier back it will be a great success.

i dont think he will try,and imho it will be clever to dont try. :D
70 seconds is too little for Ogier at 141km stages.

[noel157]

No, he'll ignore Ogier. As I said earlier Meeke is driving at 90% and plans ignoring everybody else.
I would wait until the 2nd half of the season when he'll be on events he's had some/limited experience before. He's never been to Portugal nor Mexico (unless you count spectating some years ago...). Argentina is a new place for him too although IRC was obviously there but not near WRC area. Poland will also be new too. So from NORF on he should be more comfortable with things.

[Rallyper]

No, he'll ignore Ogier. As I said earlier Meeke is driving at 90% and plans ignoring everybody else.
I would wait until the 2nd half of the season when he'll be on events he's had some/limited experience before. He's never been to Portugal nor Mexico (unless you count spectating some years ago...). Argentina is a new place for him too although IRC was obviously there but not near WRC area. Poland will also be new too. So from NORF on he should be more comfortable with things.

So which rallies has he attended. He has been a rallydriver for years. Just curious. With all respect for Meeke, but wondering about forummembers memory... :p

[noel157]

Yes, a long time driving but very little regulars seats. Not a lot of starts over the years, was always fighting for money and chances:

http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=70&sct=1

or

http://krismeeke.com/about.php

[AndyRAC]

He may have been driving for a long time, but he has very little WRCar experience.
Before this season; 2005 Rally GB in a private Impreza WRC, 2007 Rally Ireland in another private Impreza WRC.
Then his 5/6 outings in the MINI WRC in 2011 - and finally his 2 outings in the DS3 WRCar last year.

He's doing absolutely the right thing - driving his own Rally, and trying to finish to build up some experience.

[Barreis]

Who's first driver at citroen works team?!

[noel157]

Who's first driver at citroen works team?!

Edit- deleted my reply. Not worth it, you'd only send a complaint in again..........

[N.O.T]

Who's first driver at citroen works team?!

they do not have one.

[Tom206wrc]

I'm really glad Meeke signed a second year with Citroën :)

[Karukera]

Common sense prevailed.
His technical knowledge of the DS3, top notch engineering feedback and a decent pace helped a bit.
Now's the time to fix the costly mistakes.

[KiwiWRCfan]

Kris now has a seat for 2015. Should this thread be closed and replaced with a new thread of "xxxxx xxxxx the fastest driver with no seat"
Of course the new thread may only last a few hours / days pending Yves Matton's next anouncement

[MJW]

Kris now has a seat for 2015. Should this thread be closed and replaced with a new thread of "xxxxx xxxxx the fastest driver with no seat"
Of course the new thread may only last a few hours / days pending Yves Matton's next anouncement
What Sebastien Loeb? FASTEST DRIVER WITH NO SEAT ;-)

[WUff1]

Lukyanuk!

[Toyoda]

Lukyanuk!

Paddon

[Sch17]

Ostberg

[gorganl2000]

What Sebastien Loeb? FASTEST DRIVER WITH NO SEAT ;-)

good humor. lol

[Doon]

Not necessarily the fastest, but the driver with most potential is Paddon.

Ostberg is currently faster, cant see him improving much though.

[Toyoda]

Agreed


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[BDA Cosworth]

Not necessarily the fastest, but the driver with most potential is Paddon.

Ostberg is currently faster, cant see him improving much though.

Not faster all the time ;)

[EstWRC]

I agree with Paddon, for me Ostberg reached his limits in 2012.

i would also name Abbring but he has a seat in ERC.

[EightGear]

i would also name Abbring but he has a seat in ERC.

Nothing is confirmed for next year yet. In a recent interview he said his main focus is on staying with Peugeot, but he is also talking to Skoda and Citroen. Besides that he's doing the roll outs of the Hyundai's before they get sent to a WRC round.

[kirungi okwogera]

My 2 cents is that it's now Paddon or Lukyanuk.

[RS]

Wouldn't it be best to discuss this after the dust has settled on silly season?

Abbring seems to have a lot of natural speed but I would like to see him against more opposition with the same type of cars and I would like to see him finish some rallies.

[AdvEvo]

I rather see Lukyanuk then the dutch guy.

It s just awesome to see lukyanuk going. I think he gets lots of viewers because of his driving style. Publicity wise i would take Lukyanuk. Also russian is a far bigger car market then the Netherlands!

[miniwintz]

Everyone wants to see Lukyanuk in a proper championship... Except for the guys who are in charge...

[Mihai]

I rather see Lukyanuk then the dutch guy.

Also russian is a far bigger car market then the Netherlands!

The Russian new car market hardly gained momentum in 2014 (read a good Reuters story below). I would think Citroen/Hyundai/VW/Ford sells more new cars in the Netherlands than in Russia. The best sold foreign car in Russia is the locally assembled Renault Logan.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/16/ukraine-crisis-russia-autos-idUSL6N0PQ2CF20140716

[RAS007]

Whats the consensus about Kris after Finland? Is that it for him at Citroen? I certainly hope not, but taking into account Matton's comments leading up to 1000 Lakes, and then crashing out, it seems like his time might be up. If so, any other options for him?

[skarderud]

I hope he dont get the headtitle of this tread again, at least.

If Citroën says no thanks after this season, he should be invited to some meetings at Msport, hyundai and Toyota, or at Opel If theire R5 project is back on track.

[EightGear]

Wasn't Malcolm Wilson interested in him last year?

His age is his biggest enemy I'm afraid: Hyundai has no room (they already have 4 drivers contracted for next year) and M-Sport are going on their once-in-5-years-two-young-drivers tour again.

[MJW]

My opinion is that if Citroen commit to WRC 2017 then Kris Meeke will be out in 2016 as Citroen will use 2016 as a 'building year' for their new drivers. If KM is confirmed as Citroen driver in 2016 I suspect that means WTCC is what gets the future programme nod.