Donkey of the race: Ban him again

[Ranger]

How can Grosjean keep doing it? :\

[donKey jote]

Alonso for not staying out of trouble :(

[steveaki13]

I will wait til the race is over. Plenty of time for someone to Donkey it up some more. :p :

[ShiftingGears]

Grosjean and whoever thought of playing the fanfare while the track announcer yelled "CHAMPAAAAAGNEEEEEEEEEE". Grotesquely cheesy.

[steveaki13]

Donkey: Romain Again????

[F1boat]

Romain easily

[longisland]

Grosjean hands down. Checo for spinning out & Fred for the first lap out. Mclaren for allegedly sabotaging Lewis's race with the wrong set up because there is no way Mr. No grip can out qualify & out race Lewis in a drivers track like Suzuka.

[A FONDO]

Donkeys were the usual ones - Grojan, Senna, Di Resta (what a waster).

[Tazio]

Rogro no question!

[DexDexter]

Grosjean is the donkey of the season, without his crashes Lotus would be second in the constructors' championship

[The Black Knight]

Grosjean by a country mile.

Perez also for a ridiculous exit from the race.

[AndyL]

Grosjean hands down. Checo for spinning out & Fred for the first lap out. Mclaren for allegedly sabotaging Lewis's race with the wrong set up because there is no way Mr. No grip can out qualify & out race Lewis in a drivers track like Suzuka.

I think that's the first "McLaren sabotaging Hamilton" conspiracy theory of the weekend isn't it :D

[geilux]

Silly question: GROSJEAN as usual !

[Knock-on]

I think that's the first "McLaren sabotaging Hamilton" conspiracy theory of the weekend isn't it :D

He's got a point. McLaren obviously knew Lewis was leaving at last years race as well and screwed him up there as well :laugh:

So, 2 x 5th places for Lewis in 2011 and 2012 and Jenson getting a 1st and 2nd means Lewis is sabotaged :confused:

[CNR]

the big jackass is Grosjean
3 race ban ?

[Malbec]

I've got a soft spot for Grosjean but today was one step too far. His attention was obviously completely taken up by what Perez was doing to his left and he wasn't covering what was happening in front of him. I don't think attitude is the issue, Grosjean looked devastated after the race, compare that to Maldonaldo who after similar incidents looks as cocky as ever. I think its a basic lack of spatial awareness and I don't think this is something that can be learnt once you're at his level.

Is his contract for next year signed? If not surely Lotus need to think about dropping him. He's cost them too many points.

[AndyL]

He's got a point. McLaren obviously knew Lewis was leaving at last years race as well and screwed him up there as well :laugh:

So, 2 x 5th places for Lewis in 2011 and 2012 and Jenson getting a 1st and 2nd means Lewis is sabotaged :confused:

:)
It must be sabotage because Button sucks so bad there's no other way he could ever beat Hamilton. We know Button sucks that badly because he only ever beats Hamilton when Hamilton has been sabotaged.

That circular logic has a familiar ring to it doesn't it!

[djparky]

Grosjean...

[Mia 01]

Grosjean, I´m afraid everytime the starts go off at a GP. Why hasn´t he learn by now, will he ever.

He isn´t an asset to the Lotus team.

[N. Jones]

Roman, you are really making me wish I had choose someone else for my FGP team!

[Rollo]

Alonso...

For giving Kimi no room and then having the gall to blame him for taking him out. If I did that sort of shenanigans on the motorway, I'd be given a lovely fine, some points and maybe a stay at Her Majesty's no-star hotel for the night, before visting a man with a wig.

[truefan72]

people are overreacting to Grosjean, agreed his crashes are worrisome but it seems ridiculous to ask for another ban or for webber to call him a nutcase.
the same webber that routinely crashed into others because he could not concede a place. And who has caused his fair share of first lap incidents. Webber's comments are just the height of hypocrisy.
Grosjean, is having a horror year, but I sincerely doubt that beyond this year, you will see anything like what has happened in 2012.


As for the donkey of the race, there are a few, Grosjean being one of them, but less so than Perez,
and especially Alonso who caused the main incident on lap one, who after screwing around with kimi spun out and then instead of staying off track fully knowing that cars were screaming by, tried to over correct and steered right into the track & traffic, that caused the rosberg incident and left others with missing wings etc.

[gloomyDAY]

Fernando Alonso. Dumping it in the first corner and trying to pin it on Kimi. Grosjean too for getting into the back of Webber, but at least he's man enough to admit a mistake.

[Robinho]

the grosjean incident looked odd to me, it seemed that Webber slowed massivley more than required for the 2nd part of turn 1, both Grosjean and Perez had massive closing speed on him and at that point its not a heavy braking point. I think Grosjean was genuinely concentrating so hard on running wheel to wheel with Perez (fairly) he slightly misjudged the closing gap in front, but I still think (from a couple of "live" replays) that Webber seemed to be slow in the corner and had let the cars in front go, or was slightly impeded himself.

But the evidence shows that it is another Grosjean 1st lap accident. The other candidates would have to be Alonso/Kimi for not yielding at all and potentially causing a much bigger accident and Perez for being caught out behind Hamilton

[The Black Knight]

Now that I'm off my phone, I'll explain my donkeys:

Grosjean for causinga completely avoidable accident. Weber was right in front of hima nd he just drove into the side of him. As a former racing driver I can't understand this. His spacial awareness must be awful. I was always aware of what was going on around me at the start of races and it's a drivers instinct a lot of the time. Maybe he is so conscious of his incidents now that he is thinking about them too much at the start. Either way he needs to get them sorted and fast.

Perez - equal a donkey as Grosjean for an absurd exit from the race. Poor showing from the future McLaren driver.

Alonso - Ok he was being squeezed but not that much by the McLaren. The exit was pretty much his own fault. Very unlike the great Ferrari driver but even the best make mistakes and that's probably his first one all year.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Donkey of the race going to Grosjean is really a no-brainer. That guy needs a ban to cool down. Accidents can happen in the first-lap pandemonium, they always will, but if it's always the same people, who end up in the thick of it, something's wrong.

When it comes to team, the donkey of the race goes to McLaren. Until recently they had the best car and posted a new world record for fastest ever pit stop. This time they botched up at least two stops again, along with Hamilton's setup. Not the showing of a team that wants to go for the championship.

[Malbec]

people are overreacting to Grosjean, agreed his crashes are worrisome but it seems ridiculous to ask for another ban or for webber to call him a nutcase.
the same webber that routinely crashed into others because he could not concede a place. And who has caused his fair share of first lap incidents. Webber's comments are just the height of hypocrisy.
Grosjean, is having a horror year, but I sincerely doubt that beyond this year, you will see anything like what has happened in 2012.


As for the donkey of the race, there are a few, Grosjean being one of them, but less so than Perez,
and especially Alonso who caused the main incident on lap one, who after screwing around with kimi spun out and then instead of staying off track fully knowing that cars were screaming by, tried to over correct and steered right into the track & traffic, that caused the rosberg incident and left others with missing wings etc.

Having looked at the collision again I do agree that Webber seems extraordinarily slow exiting turn 2. Had he been further out Perez would have ploughed into him but instead he was on the inside so Grosjean did instead.

I'm more tempted to give him the benefit of the doubt for this one as long as he keeps his nose clean in the forthcoming races.

Apparently Alonso allows himself one mistake a season, I think this was his one for 2012. Unlike you though I don't blame his re-entry onto the track. By facing the oncoming traffic he made his Ferrari into the smallest target possible and avoided a bigger accident. Blaming Kimi afterwards was stupid though.

Perez' mistake looks worse in hindsight. I really don't see what McLaren see in this guy. Finally got into Q3 after a long drought but proceeded to be outqualified by his teammate by 0.3 seconds, would have been more had Kobayashi not slowed down for the yellow flag. Got hotheaded and took himself out as Lewis learnt from his first mistake and covered his inside carefully at the hairpin. Denied Sauber a chance to close right up with Mercedes in the points.

He's great when he's got a car 2-3 seconds quicker than those around him due to strategy but wheel to wheel racing against those running on similar strategy shows his flaws. He's only scored 15 points from conventional strategies this season.

[truefan72]

Having looked at the collision again I do agree that Webber seems extraordinarily slow exiting turn 2. Had he been further out Perez would have ploughed into him but instead he was on the inside so Grosjean did instead.

I'm more tempted to give him the benefit of the doubt for this one as long as he keeps his nose clean in the forthcoming races.

Apparently Alonso allows himself one mistake a season, I think this was his one for 2012. Unlike you though I don't blame his re-entry onto the track. By facing the oncoming traffic he made his Ferrari into the smallest target possible and avoided a bigger accident. Blaming Kimi afterwards was stupid though.

Perez' mistake looks worse in hindsight. I really don't see what McLaren see in this guy. Finally got into Q3 after a long drought but proceeded to be outqualified by his teammate by 0.3 seconds, would have been more had Kobayashi not slowed down for the yellow flag. Got hotheaded and took himself out as Lewis learnt from his first mistake and covered his inside carefully at the hairpin. Denied Sauber a chance to close right up with Mercedes in the points.

He's great when he's got a car 2-3 seconds quicker than those around him due to strategy but wheel to wheel racing against those running on similar strategy shows his flaws. He's only scored 15 points from conventional strategies this season.


Fair enough
And yes The jury is still out on Perez, but I guess we will see next year.
I personally thought that they would go for either Sutil or better yet Hulkenberg.
both are much better than Perez in my book and Hulkenberg with a strong car under his belt would easily be a consistent race winner and title contender

lol perhaps LdM will make me eat some crow

[The Black Knight]

Fair enough
And yes The jury is still out on Perez, but I guess we will see next year.
I personally thought that they would go for either Sutil or better yet Hulkenberg.
both are much better than Perez in my book and Hulkenberg with a strong car under his belt would easily be a consistent race winner and title contender

lol perhaps LdM will make me eat some crow

I'm not 100% certain why people fancy Hulkenberg so much honestly. Apart from a pole position in qualifying Brazil 2010 I can't really see what he has done to impress.

I think DiResta was the best option for McLaren. As you said, the Jury is out on Perez. I haven't been convinced he has the talent to justify being in a McLaren so far. He has impressed at times but definitely not consistently. Next year will tell a lot.

[DexDexter]

I'm not 100% certain why people fancy Hulkenberg so much honestly. Apart from a pole position in qualifying Brazil 2010 I can't really see what he has done to impress.

I think DiResta was the best option for McLaren. As you said, the Jury is out on Perez. I haven't been convinced he has the talent to justify being in a McLaren so far. He has impressed at times but definitely not consistently. Next year will tell a lot.

I don't know, I see no difference between Di Resta and Hulkenberg, they're very evenly matched based on their results this year in identical cars.

[Malbec]

I'm not 100% certain why people fancy Hulkenberg so much honestly. Apart from a pole position in qualifying Brazil 2010 I can't really see what he has done to impress.

I think DiResta was the best option for McLaren. As you said, the Jury is out on Perez. I haven't been convinced he has the talent to justify being in a McLaren so far. He has impressed at times but definitely not consistently. Next year will tell a lot.

A lot of the hype around Hulkenberg has settled down, before he went to Williams he was being touted as the next Schumacher.

He hasn't done a bad job at all at FI except that a great drive from those drivers merely gets them a solid points haul as opposed to podiums for the Sauber drivers. He's been pretty consistent and handy. The latest rumours put him at Sauber alongside Kobayashi or Gutierrez. If with the former I think Sauber will have their most solid lineup since Heidfeld/Kubica.

The only explanation I can think of for McLaren not signing Di Resta would be that Mercedes have some kind of option on him that would make it extremely difficult for a third party to get him. He's much more reliable than Perez and he doesn't lack pace either.

[The Black Knight]

A lot of the hype around Hulkenberg has settled down, before he went to Williams he was being touted as the next Schumacher.

He hasn't done a bad job at all at FI except that a great drive from those drivers merely gets them a solid points haul as opposed to podiums for the Sauber drivers. He's been pretty consistent and handy. The latest rumours put him at Sauber alongside Kobayashi or Gutierrez. If with the former I think Sauber will have their most solid lineup since Heidfeld/Kubica.

The only explanation I can think of for McLaren not signing Di Resta would be that Mercedes have some kind of option on him that would make it extremely difficult for a third party to get him. He's much more reliable than Perez and he doesn't lack pace either.

That's pretty much my opinion except that I do think Paul has been the better driver overall this year thus far. I don't think either of them are likely to be the next Schuey or Senna but they are solid. I'd rather Paul higher though, personally.

You make a good point about DiResta and Mercedes. It could be something like that prevented him from getting a McLaren seat.

[Wasted Talent]

the grosjean incident looked odd to me, it seemed that Webber slowed massivley more than required for the 2nd part of turn 1, both Grosjean and Perez had massive closing speed on him and at that point its not a heavy braking point. I think Grosjean was genuinely concentrating so hard on running wheel to wheel with Perez (fairly) he slightly misjudged the closing gap in front, but I still think (from a couple of "live" replays) that Webber seemed to be slow in the corner and had let the cars in front go, or was slightly impeded himself.

Agree 100%.

Have looked at this a few times now, and after a bad start Webber is really slow into Turn 2, Vettel and Kobyashsi opening up a big gap, and both Grosjean and Perez intend to take the turn at a faster rate.

Grosjean was obviously watching Perez on his outside as he was not wanting to get involved in another incident and must have missed Webber's dramatic slowing and hit him.

He is quoted as being involved in seven start incidents but he hasn't been at fault in all of them. In Monaco he was forced left by another car and ended up squeezing Schmacher into the armco.

The "worst" case was at Spa, but apart from the consequences, was it much different from what Alonso did to Raikkonen here in Japan???? I suggest no, and what Vettel did to Alonso in Italy was actually slightly worse....

I think it has just become fashionable to have a go at RG, and some of the comments of some so-called experts has been scandalous. On Sky F1 Johnny Herbert said he should be sacked, but at least Martin Brundle tried to be reasonable about it.

WT

[Wasted Talent]

Having looked at the collision again I do agree that Webber seems extraordinarily slow exiting turn 2. Had he been further out Perez would have ploughed into him but instead he was on the inside so Grosjean did instead.

I'm more tempted to give him the benefit of the doubt for this one as long as he keeps his nose clean in the forthcoming races.



Yes, agree - see my comments above

WT

[Garry Walker]

Fair enough
And yes The jury is still out on Perez, but I guess we will see next year.
I personally thought that they would go for either Sutil or better yet Hulkenberg.
both are much better than Perez in my book and Hulkenberg with a strong car under his belt would easily be a consistent race winner and title contender


Hulkenberg? You mean the guy who was beaten by Barrichello far more so than Maldonado was? People are still crazy over his one lucky pole, but what else has he done?
As for Sutil, he is The Slasher and deservingly will never again get a seat in F1.

Donkey:
Grosjean and Alonso.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Could that be that you have a hatred of Germans by any chance? Your crusade against Vettel is all over the forum and you don't pass up a chance to take a swipe at Hülkenberg & Co. either. What is your problem, man?

[Knock-on]

To be fair, Garry hates everyone :D

[I am evil Homer]

I thought Grosjean was unfortunate...trying to hug the inside line with the Sauber outside and Webber seemed the slow inexplicably catching him out. Racing incident and Webber should STFU - given his inability to pass in the past.

[keysersoze]

To me the biggest Donkey was Romain and, frankly, I'm siding with those who think he needs to sit out another race. It's right to point out his first-lap accidents, sure, but not all were his fault. Still, coming so soon after his ban one would think it would be a long time before we saw another major mistake that was all his fault. I'm not buying the Webber-braked-too-soon thing. It is a constantly shrinking radius corner and cars should be at their slowest at that point, more so because on the opening laps drivers are braking later than usual--and on full tanks.

Perez looked very unlike himself yesterday, with a messy pass of Hamilton, then the next one that looked particularly desperate and sophomoric.


IMO, there was no point in Raikonnen sticking his nose there on FA's rear wheel--on lap one with drivers obviously moving around. It reminded me of Heidfeld on Buemi two years ago or, more recently, Schumacher's punt of Grosean on the run to St. Devote this year. The cynic in me thinks Kimi knew how little of a risk he was putting on his own race, and how much he could affect the driver ahead. Just so happens it was Alonso . . . his championship challenger! Tsk tsk KR.

[heliocastroneves#3]

Perez screwed it up in this race but c'mon.... It's only his second year in F1, making a mistake isn't wrong at all.... I don't even think that he's that much better than Kobayashi but Perez has of course more sponsorship with him.

[truefan72]

Agree 100%.

Have looked at this a few times now, and after a bad start Webber is really slow into Turn 2, Vettel and Kobyashsi opening up a big gap, and both Grosjean and Perez intend to take the turn at a faster rate.

Grosjean was obviously watching Perez on his outside as he was not wanting to get involved in another incident and must have missed Webber's dramatic slowing and hit him.

He is quoted as being involved in seven start incidents but he hasn't been at fault in all of them. In Monaco he was forced left by another car and ended up squeezing Schmacher into the armco.

The "worst" case was at Spa, but apart from the consequences, was it much different from what Alonso did to Raikkonen here in Japan???? I suggest no, and what Vettel did to Alonso in Italy was actually slightly worse....

I think it has just become fashionable to have a go at RG, and some of the comments of some so-called experts has been scandalous. On Sky F1 Johnny Herbert said he should be sacked, but at least Martin Brundle tried to be reasonable about it.

WT

:up:

[Knock-on]

I agree with Helio. Checo got it all crossed up and rather than doing a Pastor, he kept his accident to himself. Def a rush of blood but he's dead keen and I like that. If he hadn't of crashed, we would all have been lauding him for his earlier pass on Lewis.

[wedge]

Alonso - should have known better with Button and Kimi either side and relented and stick with points finish.




Have looked at this a few times now, and after a bad start Webber is really slow into Turn 2, Vettel and Kobyashsi opening up a big gap, and both Grosjean and Perez intend to take the turn at a faster rate.

Grosjean was obviously watching Perez on his outside as he was not wanting to get involved in another incident and must have missed Webber's dramatic slowing and hit him.

WT

I agree about RG more worried about Perez but then Perez didn't feel the need to take evasive action nor the ram into the back of Webber.

Very easy to to feel sorry for RG as he was so sincere after the race.

Probably racing incident and leave it as that.

[donKey jote]

Alonso - should have known better with Button and Kimi either side and relented and stick with points finish.


He was ahead of Kimi (albeit not enough by a couple of inches), but otherwise I agree.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Let's face it. The shunt of Alonso was a 'normal' racing incident, while Grosjean made a rookie's mistake. He was so focused on Perez that he forgot that there are other cars, too. And just as you have to do on the road, every driver has to be prepared that one of the cars ahead might slow down for some reason. That's why Grosjean got a penalty and Kimmi and Alonso didn't. In fact Grosjean got off relatively lightly. Schumacher got a 10 positions penalty for senselessly piling into the back of another car, so a stop-and-go was a very modest punishment.

[Garry Walker]

Could that be that you have a hatred of Germans by any chance? Your crusade against Vettel is all over the forum and you don't pass up a chance to take a swipe at Hülkenberg & Co. either. What is your problem, man?
You really should stop menstruating so much and get over this paranoia.

1) Look up who my favourite driver is. (Hint, he is german)
2) I am taking swipes at NH only because he is getting hyped so much with little results to back it up. No one can argue Barrichello beat him clearly, yet people talk about that one pole as if he drove like that every race.
3) As for the slasher, I tend not to like people who injure others with glass.



To be fair, Garry hates everyone :D
No, I don't.
The only one in F1 out of drivers that I really hate is bieber.

[dj_bytedisaster]

You really should stop menstruating so much and get over this paranoia.

You called me mental midget today. Seriously a guy, who doesn't know that men don't menstruate shouldn't be the one talking. Dude, if you're bleeding down there every month, you should see a doctor.


1) Look up who my favourite driver is. (Hint, he is german)
2) I am taking swipes at NH only because he is getting hyped so much with little results to back it up. No one can argue Barrichello beat him clearly, yet people talk about that one pole as if he drove like that every race.
3) As for the slasher, I tend not to like people who injure others with glass.

1) Considering that I barely remember any posts of yours that aren't 'I hate Vettel' rants it's hard to imagine that you could have a favourite driver in the first place. Considering that just in the last two days you had a go at Rosberg, took a swipe at Hülkenberg and expressed your intense dislike for Vettel and Sutil, the selection gets awfully sparse ;)
2) I can't remember Hülkenberg ever being hyped. And people still talk about that one pole position, because it was a massive achievement in a god-awful car.
3) Touché.[/quote]


No, I don't.
The only one in F1 out of drivers that I really hate is bieber.

By the sound of half of your posts, you actually do. And let me tell you - it's a strange thing to actually hate someone, whom you don't even know personally. Did he poach your girlfriend? It can't be the finger. That's annoying and I don't like it any more than the next guy, but that can't be a reason to hate someone?

[Robinho]

Let's face it. The shunt of Alonso was a 'normal' racing incident, while Grosjean made a rookie's mistake. He was so focused on Perez that he forgot that there are other cars, too. And just as you have to do on the road, every driver has to be prepared that one of the cars ahead might slow down for some reason. That's why Grosjean got a penalty and Kimmi and Alonso didn't. In fact Grosjean got off relatively lightly. Schumacher got a 10 positions penalty for senselessly piling into the back of another car, so a stop-and-go was a very modest punishment.

Grosjean got the heaviest penalty available to a driver during the race, apart from a black flag. Schumacher got the heaviest penalty apart from a ban, so the penalties are roughly equal, and in any normal race a stop and go is probably loses more than 10 spots

[Knock-on]

No, I don't.
The only one in F1 out of drivers that I really hate is bieber.

Where's that famous Welsh sense of humour gone.

Oh yeah, it was never there :p

Chill dude, it was a joke!!

[Garry Walker]

Where's that famous Welsh sense of humour gone.

Oh yeah, it was never there :p

Chill dude, it was a joke!!

Oh don't worry, I am as chilled as possible.


You called me mental midget today. Yes, yes I did.


Seriously a guy, who doesn't know that men don't menstruate shouldn't be the one talking. Dude, if you're bleeding down there every month, you should see a doctor.
I don't think you have ever told me you are a male. Judging by some of your posts, which have a certain whiny bitch tone to them, it was easy to assume you were a teenage girl on your period.



1) Considering that I barely remember any posts of yours that aren't 'I hate Vettel' rants it's hard to imagine that you could have a favourite driver in the first place. Considering that just in the last two days you had a go at Rosberg, took a swipe at Hülkenberg and expressed your intense dislike for Vettel and Sutil, the selection gets awfully sparse ;)
I don't think I have said anything bad about Rosberg in the last few days.


2) I can't remember Hülkenberg ever being hyped. And people still talk about that one pole position, because it was a massive achievement in a god-awful car.You were not reading this forum 2 years ago then. NH was hyped like he was a world champ by some, but the reality is that he only has one lucky pole position, where he performed very well, but it was still a pole achieved due to weird circumstances. Maldonado's season against Rubens was far more impressive. That's not to say he is not talented, he is, but so far he has proven very little.



By the sound of half of your posts, you actually do. And let me tell you - it's a strange thing to actually hate someone, whom you don't even know personally. Did he poach your girlfriend? It can't be the finger. That's annoying and I don't like it any more than the next guy, but that can't be a reason to hate someone? I have explained my views on that guy before on this forum.

[CaptainRaiden]

Whom will Romain Grosjean crash next? (http://whomwillgrosjeancrashnext.com/)

:p

[Koz]

Whom will Romain Grosjean crash next? (http://whomwillgrosjeancrashnext.com/)

:p

Funded by Nelsinho?? :D