Military Service

[Don Capps]

Given that military service seems to be increasing less common these days, just curious as to whether many here have served in the military.

Also, how many have served in combat; there being a big difference between being in a combat zone and directly engaging in combat operations. That said, the too often thankless task of performing convoy escort duty was transformed by the use of IEDs to attack the convoys, just as a number of other similar duties put people in the line of fire.

However, being a fobbit or REMF dodging the occasional rocket or motar round still makes you a fobbit or a REMF, not a combat troop.

[D-Type]

Nope, never been in uniform.

[ioan]

Nope. That would have been the biggest waste of time in the universe.

[MrJan]

Nope. I don't want to risk my life for a war/conflict that I don't believe in. I'm also quite lazy and don't general do well with taking orders.

[gadjo_dilo]

I served for about 2 months - it was compulsory. I found the whole thing so ridiculous that I got a medical exemption. Only the perspective of spending a hot summer month in boots....

[Mark]

I'd make a pretty useless soldier, but much respect for those who choose that path.

[BleAivano]

nope.

At the time when I was 18 it was compulsory with a 2 day military try outs and for those who passed it was
mandatory to do a minimum of 9 months basic military training once high school was finished.

I got a medical exemption though during the try outs so no military for me.

Now days that system have been replaced by a 100% professional army where anyone can sign up.

[Ninar69]

It's definitely not for me. You can't expect an extrovert to spend all day in camouflage.

[Don Capps]

This is turning out just about as I expected.

[janvanvurpa]

This is turning out just about as I expected.


Yeah everybody is all gung-ho to go kill all them Arabiac terr'ists, but nobody really wants to be in combat.

I'm around your age, just a few years younger. The US Military already had my dad --career Navy pilot---brother, ADJ---jet engine mechanic, joined navy explictly to avoid the Army and the chance of getting shipped off to Viet nam, all my cousins --Marines and Army, all my uncles--Navy and Army, piles of brother and sister-in-laws, all the uncles and Auties from my Mom's side who came out of the jungles of Panama to join (and get citizenship in shorter time), and being a student of history even when young and knowing what "we" had done in "our" wars since the Philippines where in less than 3 weeks after Manila Bay and the end of 400 years of Spanish Colonial rule US Marines were gunning down peaceful Philipinos at political rallies, the shenanigans in Central American and the Carib, Korea where we installed hard line ultra-right nationalists who had been stooges of the Japanese Manchukuo Army, I though maybe I could do something to try and counterbalance the effects of all this familial run to assert America's manifest destiny and built a veritable Empire.

And since I didn't see any FNL or NVA infiltrating the North Side of Seattle I figured probably I don't have a gripe with them..
And my interests was more like I's waaaaaaaay more interested in playing "bouncy bouncy " with their sisters than killing their brothers. They do have some cutie-pies.
Live and Let Live.
Do unto other as...
Ack! Ack Ack! (Martian for "We come in Peace, take me to your leader" You know, like this:
http://astrodynamics.net/astrologicalmusings/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/mars-attacks.jpg

OOOps!


It IS an interesting phenomenon isn't it how the entire US military has developed since the all-volunteer deal came into force isn't it?

[janvanvurpa]

nope.

At the time when I was 18 it was compulsory with a 2 day military try outs and for those who passed it was
mandatory to do a minimum of 9 months basic military training once high school was finished.

I got a medical exemption though during the try outs so no military for me.

Now days that system have been replaced by a 100% professional army where anyone can sign up.

Lumpen avskaffat?

When?

[donKey jote]

When I was 18, Ireland didn't have an official army apart from the patrol boat they used to chase Spanish fishermen with.
So no, no military service for me. I got off on the technicality of not having Spanish citizenship. :s ailor: :dozey:

[Mark]

To say it's as you expected suggests your hoped there would be another outcome?

[driveace]

No I missed it ! I started work as an apprentice motor mechanic in 1956,and deferred my National Service,and by the time I had finished my apprenticeship ,National Service was finished.Glad it went that way too !

[Rollo]

When I was working for the Commonwealth Law Courts I wasn't employed by the Military but I have spent considerable time on various bases of all three forces in Australia. Curiously to actually qualify for such positions, you have to undergo the basic training requirements. When you do front up on a base in an official capacity for a considerable length of time (usually a week posting), they usually assign you a uniform with the appropriate number of stripes so that you can move about without raising alarm.

[GridGirl]

No, never ever contemplated it. A guy who works in my office is in the TA. He left for a nine month tour of Afganistan about two or three weeks ago. It's his second tour of duty and all being well will return back to work next June. My employer announced promotions effective of 1st October today and he was promoted. A lot of congratulatory e-mail were sent out to Afganistan by us today. :)

[Tazio]

I didn't serve but was available for the draft from April '72-'73. I can't say I have ever regretted not serving, but I certainly respect and appreciate those who have, especially those that saw combat.

[Malbec]

I'm around your age, just a few years younger. The US Military already had my dad --career Navy pilot---brother, ADJ---jet engine mechanic, joined navy explictly to avoid the Army and the chance of getting shipped off to Viet nam, all my cousins --Marines and Army, all my uncles--Navy and Army, piles of brother and sister-in-laws, all the uncles and Auties from my Mom's side who came out of the jungles of Panama to join (and get citizenship in shorter time), and being a student of history even when young and knowing what "we" had done in "our" wars since the Philippines where in less than 3 weeks after Manila Bay and the end of 400 years of Spanish Colonial rule US Marines were gunning down peaceful Philipinos at political rallies, the shenanigans in Central American and the Carib, Korea where we installed hard line ultra-right nationalists who had been stooges of the Japanese Manchukuo Army, I though maybe I could do something to try and counterbalance the effects of all this familial run to assert America's manifest destiny and built a veritable Empire.

Just to make you feel better you're old enough to be my father.

I come from a military family but my parents being from the '68 generation rebelled against that.

For my part I joined the cadets at school so saw the military lifestyle and career path first hand. Since then I've flirted with the idea of joining up a few times but it was never my primary goal.

Back in '94 when I was looking at university courses the military looked like a poor deal. Francis Fukuyama's predictions seemed true and I didn't want to have a career in an organisation where the primary fight would be against budget cuts. Other careers seemed to have a better future and eventually I went for a vocation. Little did I know that Tony Blair would push Britain into more wars than any other PM since the Victorian era...

At medical school I almost signed up with the army who were prepared to subsidise our studies by £50k, a sizeable amount back then in return for 9 years of service. Didn't have the guts to sign up because I'd lose control over which speciality I would enter, a price I wasn't willing to pay.

Since then I've worked at military hospitals including in the run-up to Op Telic, I have nothing but respect for the majority of friends and colleagues in the services but its a young man's game. I'm not willing to get sent out to the provinces and get moved around at a moments notice. I have considered joining the TA once the Afghan war kicked off but career and family tend to get in the way.

Still, I do wonder what would have happened if I'd made a different decision back in 94...

[MrJan]

This is turning out just about as I expected.

What did you expect? That I would happily have served that ****wit Tony Blair while he gave ole George W. the world leader equivalent of a blowjob? Sorry mate but risking my life so that my country can control the worlds oil reserves isn't what I see as a good career choice. I support the men and women of the forces, at the lower levels, but the hierarchy and reasons for going to war (at the minute) are so full of bull**** that I really can't see myself signing up.

[Don Capps]

To say it's as you expected suggests your hoped there would be another outcome?

I had nary a thought that it would be otherwise. It simply confirms some ideas that I have had about those here.

[janvanvurpa]

Just to make you feel better :confused: you're old enough to be my father.

..

Yeah I feel terrible, as they say in the old country "det är ett helvete att blir gammalt"
My knees are grey, my eyes are bent my...*

Here's my family trying to make me comfortable in my last few waning years:
http://i475.photobucket.com/albums/rr116/janvanv/Ourhappyfamily.jpg

Aside from the 6 operations in the last 3-4 years---those big scars are sensitive to the cold--- I feel passable, ain't dead yet.

[anthonyvop]

Nope. That would have been the biggest waste of time in the universe.


For the military I assume :)

[schmenke]

I've done several campaigns in COD :erm:

[Mark]

And what are those ideas?

[Jag_Warrior]

After I blew my knee out in high school and my chances of getting a sports scholarship disappeared, I came very close to accepting an offer to enter the Navy's Nuclear Power Program. My guidance counselor and my parents were dead set against it and I followed their advice to just go to a university, without worrying about playing sports. My guidance counselor didn't think I was the military type, since I've never been one to bend to authority. And even though I would have been relatively safe in the Navy, my mother (particularly) had fresh memories of the lives wasted in Vietnam, and at that time things were also heating up in Lebanon. I believe she even called the Navy recruiter and had some strong words for him for trying to get me to join. But in the end, I didn't. And even though things have turned out rather well, I do sometimes wonder what might have been had I joined the military. For one, I would be retired by now - though my finances would probably be somewhat different. But I admire those, like many of my cousins, who chose the military as a career. As long as you're realistic and realize the risks, and aren't overly swayed by romantic notions of what war is all about, I continue to feel that it can be a good career path for a young person.

Not just these days, as it's always been the case that old men have never minded sending young men to die for this or that cause, with arguments wrapped in patriotism, of course. But we must also realize that in order to preserve and protect the republic in times of true peril, someone has to be willing to take up arms. I'm no better than anyone else. So if the republic was in actual danger, I'd like to believe that I would still do what I could, if needed.

[Garry Walker]

Nope. That would have been the biggest waste of time in the universe. Your country is lucky to have men like you.


What did you expect? That I would happily have served that ****wit Tony Blair while he gave ole George W. the world leader equivalent of a blowjob? Sorry mate but risking my life so that my country can control the worlds oil reserves isn't what I see as a good career choice. I support the men and women of the forces, at the lower levels, but the hierarchy and reasons for going to war (at the minute) are so full of bull**** that I really can't see myself signing up.
What if your country was attacked? Would you sign up then to protect your country?


For the military I assume :)
Good one.

[BDunnell]

Your country is lucky to have men like you.

I think knowing one's limitations is a very good character trait. Not everyone is suited to the military — least of all the people, i.e. offenders, that a section of opinion most believe should 'be put in the Army'.

[ioan]

Your country is lucky to have men like you.

I do not really have a country as you understand it.
I lived almost half of my life away from the country where I was born and I am absolutely not attached to land and it's inhabitants.
I would fight for freedom and a better life, not for land, not for money and certainly not for politicians.

[airshifter]

I did 8 years active duty in the US Marine Corps, and am glad I did. It was a fairly peaceful time in the world compared to today, but we did see some hostilities. Being in communications and intelligence I didn't deal with the "front line" type of stuff, and have nothing but respect for those that have or currently do.

[gadjo_dilo]

I do not really have a country as you understand it.
I lived almost half of my life away from the country where I was born and I am absolutely not attached to land and it's inhabitants..

And now I finally understand why I can't be attached to you after so many attempts.....


I would fight for freedom and a better life, not for land, not for money and certainly not for politicians.

Great words but....
1.What is freedom?
2. Isn't freedom related to fields that however aren't vital?
Ex.:
Freedom of speech.... I could ( and actually I did ) swear even under a terrible dictatorship. And I reckon that now when I have enough freedom to do it in public it lose its charm.
Freedom to travel abroad. It's good but I can live without it ( esp. when I haven't the financial means to travel ).
3. Isn't sometimes freedom understood like a suspension of the rules?

[gadjo_dilo]

Your country is lucky to have men like you..

In fact his country is lucky that men like him leave it for good. :laugh:




What if your country was attacked? Would you sign up then to protect your country?



I suppose there are enough professional military guys to do the job. I hate his lack of patriotic feelings but I admit he has his part of truth. The compulsory military service was a bad idea.

[MrJan]

What if your country was attacked? Would you sign up then to protect your country?

I can't say, as it would depend on the circumstances and 'why' we were attacked.


I hate his lack of patriotic feelings but I admit he has his part of truth.

Define patriotism. If it's blindly accepting every decision made by those in charge, even if you feel it is immoral and those that made it corrupt, then I'm not patriotic. If it's a feeling of place and pride in certain aspects of your country then I am.

[gadjo_dilo]

Define patriotism. If it's blindly accepting every decision made by those in charge, even if you feel it is immoral and those that made it corrupt, then I'm not patriotic. If it's a feeling of place and pride in certain aspects of your country then I am.

Mr. Jan, I'm afraid that due to quatation to quatation system, you misunderstood me. The one who lacks patriotic feelings is loan, of course. :laugh:

[Gregor-y]

I think nationality may play a part in this as well. Someone from the US, UK and Australia is going to have a different outlook on patriotism and military service than a number of people I've met from East Germany, Romania, Poland and of course Yugoslavia.

[janvanvurpa]

I think nationality may play a part in this as well. Someone from the US, UK and Australia is going to have a different outlook on patriotism and military service than a number of people I've met from East Germany, Romania, Poland and of course Yugoslavia.

Well that's kind of vague.
Why?

[Cooper_S]

My country has a populaton of 4,000,000 and a standing army of less than 10,000, and, oh yes, is neutral, so there was no need for me to enter the military.

[Gregor-y]

Well that's kind of vague.
Why?
Government stability for a start. Most of Eastern Europe's gone through some changes that affect a person's concept of country and the best way to serve it. I think the best description of this mindset is from Len Deighton's The Ipcress File where the agent is discussing the motivations of a Polish expat with a past of doing intelligence work for the Czar, the elected Polish government, the Pilsudski regime, the Polish resistance, the Wehrmacht, the Lublin communists and back to the exiled London Poles before going freelance. 'A rubber duck going over Niagra Falls' is a good image, as well.

[ioan]

In fact his country is lucky that men like him leave it for good. :laugh:

Certainly. That is why your country is doing so great. :p

[ioan]

You'd think with all the dead weight gone Romania would prosper?

Just kidding :p :)

That's what they like to think when they go to sleep every evening! ;)

[janvanvurpa]

Government stability for a start. Most of Eastern Europe's gone through some changes that affect a person's concept of country and the best way to serve it. I think the best description of this mindset is from Len Deighton's The Ipcress File where the agent is discussing the motivations of a Polish expat with a past of doing intelligence work for the Czar, the elected Polish government, the Pilsudski regime, the Polish resistance, the Wehrmacht, the Lublin communists and back to the exiled London Poles before going freelance. 'A rubber duck going over Niagra Falls' is a good image, as well.

Good god, man a literary reference! (Gasp!) And a good reference at that! And a great movie. Next think ya know we'll be referencing Oskar Homolka in the wonderful film Funeral in Berlin! "English! I like you!"

ya know, in the Cold War, I served my country well I believe......person to person and sport contacts, lots of tea (Said my friends from "the other side": "We shall drink Russian tea in the day so we are good workers, but we shall drink Chinese tea in the night to make us good philosophers!"

[gadjo_dilo]

Certainly. That is why your country is doing so great. :p

Probably. Since you left we managed to join NATO and EU. :laugh:
One reason we're doing so "great" is because all those who left the country still have the right to vote. When they do it they do it with their dorsal part. When they should go to vote ( no matter for whom ) they stay home. etc.

Now seriously, even if my country is in trouble I don't think I should be in denial of my roots. There's no need ( and reason !) of a parade of patriotic feelings, I like to express them in a discreet and lucid way.

Whether you like it or not, the label "made in Romania" would be attached to you and your kids for at least one more generation.
Just look at me, I was born here but I'm still perceived like a "Make" ( and that's not the english word:laugh :) .
Ironically, a "make" never had a particular country but always had a strong attachment to his former land, language and co-ethniks.


That's what they like to think when they go to sleep every evening!

Wrong again. When we go to sleep we think of things that can't be mentioned on a so called family forum.


You'd think with all the dead weight gone Romania would prosper?

Honestly? No.
But it's a step ahead anyway. :laugh:

[gadjo_dilo]

One of you called me "cupcake", now I'm a "minx"....
Actually I'm a very serious and quite boring person.
But it's great that due to this forum I could learn some new english words.

[ioan]

You minx :p :)

Don't get your hopes high.

[ioan]

One reason we're doing so "great" is because all those who left the country still have the right to vote. When they do it they do it with their dorsal part. When they should go to vote ( no matter for whom ) they stay home. etc.

LOL I think you are talking about those who remained in Ro cause they were lazy to leave and are lazy to go to vote also.
I did travel thousands of kms for election in the past and I'll do it again if I won't live close to an election point next time around. I wish you could say the same about yourself.

[BleAivano]

Lumpen avskaffat?

When?

Decision was made June 2009 and the decision became law at July 1st 2010.

Only have source in Swedish (sorry).
Värnplikt - Försvarsmakten (http://www.forsvarsmakten.se/sv/Om-Forsvarsmakten/Varnplikt/)
Värnplikt i Sverige - Wikipedia (http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A4rnplikt_i_Sverige)

[gadjo_dilo]

Don't get your hopes high.
"Les Illusions perdues"....? Nah...I've already admitted I'm not that type.
But of course you wouldn't miss another opportunity to be mean.


I did travel thousands of kms for election in the past .

Exactly what I've said. Guys like you who voted from abroad ( wouldn't be surprised if you were still in France by that time - the place were the major fraud was made ) made my life miserable by voting for the "Hă hă hă " guy.

....and I'll do it again if I won't live close to an election point next time around. I.
Exactly what I've said. Guys like you who had a chance to change things wouldn't move their as-es and made it possible for the "Hă hă hă " guy to stay another year. I bet you stayed home on 29 th July.

Now seriously, if you claim you don't have a country then you can't have a certain nationality or citizenship. I'm afraid that as long as you'll play the " mr. John Lackland " game, legally you can't vote. So give me a break.

wish you could say the same about yourself. .
I can easily show you the back of my ID card with all the "voted" stamps on it but why should I bother to bring proves for a guy who doesn't have a God and is currently stateless?

[janneppi]

Decision was made June 2009 and the decision became law at July 1st 2010.

Only have source in Swedish (sorry).
Värnplikt - Försvarsmakten (http://www.forsvarsmakten.se/sv/Om-Forsvarsmakten/Varnplikt/)
Värnplikt i Sverige - Wikipedia (http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A4rnplikt_i_Sverige)
The last time I saw Swedish service men/officers was 13 years ago when we hit a pine tree in my BMP-1 during my age group's "final war game" and the tree nearly hit their Land Cruiser as it fell down. :)
What a waste of a good tree had it hit them. ;)

[Gregor-y]

I can easily show you the back of my ID card with all the "voted" stamps on it but why should I bother to bring proves for a guy who doesn't have a God and is currently stateless?
Dracula doesn't count as a god. ;)

[ioan]

"Les Illusions perdues"....? Nah...I've already admitted I'm not that type.
But of course you wouldn't miss another opportunity to be mean.



Exactly what I've said. Guys like you who voted from abroad ( wouldn't be surprised if you were still in France by that time - the place were the major fraud was made ) made my life miserable by voting for the "Hă hă hă " guy.

Exactly what I've said. Guys like you who had a chance to change things wouldn't move their as-es and made it possible for the "Hă hă hă " guy to stay another year. I bet you stayed home on 29 th July.

Now seriously, if you claim you don't have a country then you can't have a certain nationality or citizenship. I'm afraid that as long as you'll play the " mr. John Lackland " game, legally you can't vote. So give me a break.

I can easily show you the back of my ID card with all the "voted" stamps on it but why should I bother to bring proves for a guy who doesn't have a God and is currently stateless?

How many time can you contradict yourself in one post? LOL
In the end I guess it has to do with me moving away and building up a good enough life and you staying home and complaining about yours and ofcourse saying that others are at fault for your failures. Things in your life will improve the day you'll accept that you're the one in charge of your life.

[ioan]

...why should I bother to bring proves for a guy who doesn't have a God and is currently stateless?

This is the best part and to be honest I don't care! I am free and happy! :)

[janvanvurpa]

The last time I saw Swedish service men/officers was 13 years ago when we hit a pine tree in my BMP-1 during my age group's "final war game" and the tree nearly hit their Land Cruiser as it fell down. :)
What a waste of a good tree had it hit them. ;)
.

Well if it had crushed a Land Cruiser then the tree will not have given it's life in vain.

[ioan]

You remind me of a certain F1 driver who you criticized a few years back for choosing to live in a tax haven :p

I'm not living in a tax heaven. In Romania I would pay 16% taxes, here I pay 40%.
The difference is that if you want to make it through life you have to be strong and fight it out and especially work hard, something 75% of Romanians never did and do not know what it is like, but they sure know how to hold others responsible for their own failures.

[gadjo_dilo]

I'm not living in a tax heaven. In Romania I would pay 16% taxes, here I pay 40%. .

Ionele dear, that's the thinking of an engineer....
As if it's the same to pay 16% to an insignificant income that allows you to live at the limit of subsitence or to pay 40% to a decent income.


The difference is that if you want to make it through life you have to be strong and fight it out and especially work hard, something 75% of Romanians never did and do not know what it is like, but they sure know how to hold others responsible for their own failures.
I'm a bit confused.
Following this reasoning, those who left the country were necessarily hard working. Then why did they do it if they had premises to make it through life even here?
What about those who left because they can't find a job here? What about the large contingent of gipsies who spread all over Europe? All these were necessarily hard working?


In the end I guess it has to do with me moving away and building up a good enough life and you staying home and complaining about yours and ofcourse saying that others are at fault for your failures. Things in your life will improve the day you'll accept that you're the one in charge of your life. ..

Hmm...
I already come from a family that left their country and things aren't that simple. Depending on the way you have an inner life....
Otherwise I don't think that professionally I failed so much. On the contrary.. :laugh:

[Big Ben]

I only did the very first step... and that used to happen when we were around 18 years of age. They would gather to see if we are mentally and physically fit and that would be all. We were happy to do it because we wouldn't go to school that day.

Soon after military service was no longer mandatory so I got off the hook. My father told me that during his first day some military big daddy came there to tell them a few things about army and he started by enlightening them on what army actually is... an organized waste of time. Amin.

[A.F.F.]

The last time I saw Swedish service men/officers was 13 years ago when we hit a pine tree in my BMP-1 during my age group's "final war game" and the tree nearly hit their Land Cruiser as it fell down. :)
What a waste of a good tree had it hit them. ;)

Don't worry. They probably had hairnets to protect them ;)