Will McLaren support Lewis now?

[F1boat]

Do you think that McLaren will push hard for the WDC with Lewis now, when it is known that he will go to Mercedes next year? They said that they are committed to this, but also said that they will support Jenson and Lewis equally:
McLaren committed to Hamilton's bid | Planet F1 | Formula One | News, Standings, Results, Features, Video (http://planetf1.com/driver/18227/8115331/McLaren-committed-to-Hamilton-s-bid)

(McLaren) "remains absolutely committed to fighting for, and providing every opportunity to both Jenson Button and Lewis Hamilton to contest, the 2012 drivers' and Constructors' World Championships."

What do you think?

[Mark]

Yes of course they will. Next year is a different story.

[AndyL]

I think realistically the WDC is out of reach anyway, now it's about getting the maximum possible points for both drivers to fight for the constructors' championship.

[Storm]

I think they will because winning a WDC is just as important to them as would be for Lewis.
Why is a WDC as important to the team as it is to the driver?

Although I think they will still give Lewis every opportunity to fight for the title, they will also most likely favour Button a bit more, naturally...

[Tazio]

If the Boss wins the WDC at least McL' will keep the trophy. :)

[CaptainRaiden]

Do you think that McLaren will push hard for the WDC with Lewis now, when it is known that he will go to Mercedes next year?

I suspect they will, but you never know. At least if Lewis has any mechanical failures or botched pit stops from now on, we know who to blame. :p

[CaptainRaiden]

Why is a WDC as important to the team as it is to the driver?

I'm not sure about this, but I think a WDC nets the team bonuses and quite a bit of TV money as well. Besides more wins and Lewis becoming WDC gets Mclaren a shot at the Constructor's title as well, which is another truckload of money and trophies that Mclaren so care about.

Mclaren is not so far away from Red Bull in the Constructor's championship. If Grosjean can stop crashing into Lewis and the Mclaren can stop failing, and Button can strap on a pair and get several podiums, Mclaren could be looking at a WDC/WCC lockout come Brazil.

[F1boat]

I think they will because winning a WDC is just as important to them as would be for Lewis. They may halt development this year however and focus on changing the car more to suit Button.

I think so as well...

[wedge]

Why is a WDC as important to the team as it is to the driver?

Although I think they will still give Lewis every opportunity to fight for the title, they will also most likely favour Button a bit more, naturally...

When the opportunity rises: WDC has - is and should be the greatest accolade.

No better example than 1999. Winning WCC meant nothing to them.

[Malbec]

I'm not sure about this, but I think a WDC nets the team bonuses and quite a bit of TV money as well. Besides more wins and Lewis becoming WDC gets Mclaren a shot at the Constructor's title as well, which is another truckload of money and trophies that Mclaren so care about.

I believe according to the Concorde agreements teams get paid primarily on WCC positioning with bonuses for their history in the sport and other factors, WDC points not being amongst them.

Still if McLaren gave Alonso full support in 2007 despite what he did to the team I think they'll find the grace to give Lewis their full support.

[Mia 01]

Still, Lewis could be able to take MacLarens latest development with him to Mercedes.

[Firstgear]

They won't be in the position to get another title for the next couple of years (Button too slow, Perez too inexperienced) so they better support him.

[Mia 01]

Will Button support him, the team?

The last chance for Lewis to get a WDC in perhaps many years.

I´m moore concerned for all Lewis fans, starting now. With Mercedes, is it the car or the driver.

[rjbetty]

I heard Mercedes were scaling back their program anyway...?

Maybe they only said that to try to get Mike to lose interest and walk, so they wouldn't have to push him? :(

I don't really have much faith in Mercedes. I think they should put some investment in their team.

[Firstgear]

Signing Lewis IS quite an investment.

[fandango]

...do you really think drivers have the knowledge and understanding to take such data with them?..l

A simple tweet will do it :)

[steveaki13]

Its tough, but I think Mclaren will.

Its changed a bit now I think. In the old days drivers would be testing for next years car and teams would take the driver off testing after he signed for a new team.

I suppose he will be kept away a bit more from Factory sessions, but on the whole he wont miss much.

I hope Lewis still has a chance of the world title. Although I think it will be tough.

[zako85]

If the teams did not care about winning WDCs then we would not have had the practice of team orders at some teams.

[CNR]

McLaren tell Lewis Hamilton he is making a mistake in leaving for F1 rivals Mercedes




But Whitmarsh is convinced Hamilton is damaging his chances of emulating his
hero Ayrton Senna in becoming a triple world champion by leaving McLaren.

"Mercedes is a great partner of ours and they are a great team,"
Whitmarsh said. "But for anyone leaving McLaren, and he wants to win, I think
that's a mistake because I have faith and belief in this team.

Read more:
McLaren tell Lewis Hamilton he is making a mistake in leaving for F1 rivals Mercedes | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/mclaren-tell-lewis-hamilton-he-is-making-a-mistake-in-leaving-for-f1-rivals-mercedes/story-e6frfmq9-1226483883775#ixzz27ooYrpFL)

[Koz]

Of course it is a mistake to leave Mclaren for Merc!

I am not sure how close he will ever come to winning a race again.
This is very illogical considering him wanting to be in a winning car.
Lewis has just become JV!

[zako85]

Lewis has just become JV!

Actually, if you would like to make an analogy for a pilot who leaves a strong team for a much weaker one, JV is not a good comparison. JV's last season at Williams, (in 1998?) the Williams car already was not the best of crop, and I think Andy Newey already left them or was leaving. 1997 was the peak of Williams fortunes, and it was going downhill since then up to this day. Renault exited F1 business, and Williams was stuck with previous year's uncompetitive Renault engine. JV moved to Benetton. Benetton was suffering from the same engine problem, but it is fair to say that Benetton was about on the same level with Williams at that point. So moving from Williams to Benetton was more or less a lateral move.

A more relevant analogy would be a comparison with Damon Hill moving from Williams to Arrows after 1996. I think to this day I do not get that move. For Hill, it was the beginning of the end of his career. Williams already signed drivers for 1997, so he had to move. But being a WC that year, he could have gone to a better team, but decided not to.

[F1boat]

JV moved to BAR and not to Benetton. Williams forced Hill to leave...

[zako85]

Oh, I see. My mistake. I still view JVs move to BAR (if it was his call) fairly logical as it was probably clear to him that Williams is going down. As for Hill, yes he couldn't stay at Williams, but moving into Arrows was an unusual choice.

But historical analogies aside, Hamilton's move to Mercedes isn't entirely illogical. Perhaps he is tired that year after year McLaren hasn't delivered him a championship winning car and support. Botched pit stops cost him valuable points. Singapore car failure makes his chances to win WDC pretty much a theoretical possibility. He also stands a chance to make more money from this move. This whole drama makes his image more valuable to sponsors.

[Mia 01]

Jenson will get all new bits first. Lewis gets no information on development and next years car.

Lewis is out in the cold now, the team builds around Jenson.

[F1boat]

Well, it is unlikely that they will hinder Lewis, but it is also unlikely that they will make Jenson his second driver until it is mathematically impossible for him to win the championship.

[Koz]

Actually, if you would like to make an analogy for a pilot who leaves a strong team for a much weaker one, JV is not a good comparison. JV's last season at Williams, (in 1998?) the Williams car already was not the best of crop, and I think Andy Newey already left them or was leaving. 1997 was the peak of Williams fortunes, and it was going downhill since then up to this day. Renault exited F1 business, and Williams was stuck with previous year's uncompetitive Renault engine. JV moved to Benetton. Benetton was suffering from the same engine problem, but it is fair to say that Benetton was about on the same level with Williams at that point. So moving from Williams to Benetton was more or less a lateral move.

A more relevant analogy would be a comparison with Damon Hill moving from Williams to Arrows after 1996. I think to this day I do not get that move. For Hill, it was the beginning of the end of his career. Williams already signed drivers for 1997, so he had to move. But being a WC that year, he could have gone to a better team, but decided not to.
You are confused on both points.

Williams didn't want DH.

[Koz]

Oh, I see. My mistake. I still view JVs move to BAR (if it was his call) fairly logical as it was probably clear to him that Williams is going down. As for Hill, yes he couldn't stay at Williams, but moving into Arrows was an unusual choice.

But historical analogies aside, Hamilton's move to Mercedes isn't entirely illogical. Perhaps he is tired that year after year McLaren hasn't delivered him a championship winning car and support. Botched pit stops cost him valuable points. Singapore car failure makes his chances to win WDC pretty much a theoretical possibility. He also stands a chance to make more money from this move. This whole drama makes his image more valuable to sponsors.


The reason I made the analogy is because that is exactly what happened.

Tyrrrel/BAR/Honda/Brawn/Merc... It's a wonderful continuation.

How many races have they won since JV joined BAR?
They won a championship because of rule changes - after domination in the first 7 races they got on the podium TWICE. Thats says something is very wrong.
They have won one race since in 3 years.
They are likely to be overtaken by Sauber by the end of the season.
What is the likelihood they will have a winning car next year?

McLaren will certainly be winning races next year. They will be up there every single race.

This move was based on his personal issues and money, not the willingness to win championships or even races.

As for JV, I don't think Williams wanted him anymore either but he moved to Tyrrel FFS! That's like moving from RedBull to HRT! No logic, just $$$.

[Cooper_S]

As they keep the trophies I'm sure they will, besides the best way to win a WCC is to ensure your drivers can win races

[Mark]

The WDC is EVERYTHING both to the driver and just as much to the team. The WCC is a secondary concern.

[Cooper_S]

I have never felt Williams wanted the WDC as much as they wanted the WCC...

[steveaki13]

I have never felt Williams wanted the WDC as much as they wanted the WCC...



I dont know about other teams, but I think your right. I remember hearing that Frank & Patrick always wanted the WCC title more than a drivers.

[gloomyDAY]

McLaren should bench Lewis after putting up with his crap for so many years.

[truefan72]

The WDC is EVERYTHING both to the driver and just as much to the team. The WCC is a secondary concern.

agreed
the media always seem to try and make a big deal about the WCC, but iis all about the WDC.
Sponsors flock to the car that wins the WDC not the team that wins the WCC

[truefan72]

McLaren should bench Lewis after putting up with his crap for so many years.

wow gloomyDAY
that's all I can say...
:down:

[gloomyDAY]

wow gloomyDAY
that's all I can say...
:down: Yes, harsh. I still think it's laughable that Whitmarsh would try and help Lewis win the championship while coaxing Button to play ball. Lewis is on the way out the door and I feel as if Martin resents him at the moment.

[Cooper_S]

when any capable driver has been in a team for as long as Lewis has without achieving the ultimate success (ie WDC's) no matter how close they actually come to it, they are bound to be looking at the door.

He maybe expected Button to be more of a pushover or maybe that the team would back him more who knows but once Ron Dennis announced ne was leaving the F1 team I always felt Lewis was looking at where he would likely go next... I'm still amazed he picked Mercedes.

[steveaki13]

Now with the title fading and all these twitter incidents I think any chance of help has gone.

Roll on next season and Mercedes for Lewis now

[zako85]

I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but there is some talk in the press that Hamilton is not allowed to visit the Mercedes factory (http://www.inautonews.com/mclaren-relationship-heading-downhill-for-hamilton) until the end of year. It's not clear if this is a "business as usual" rule that's part of every McLaren driver contract or whether some new rule imposed on Hamilton. I am guessing that Hamilton fuming about Button unfollowing him on Tweeter is an indication that the relationships are deteriorating. I hope that the team stays united. They need this if they want to win the constructor's championship this year.

[ShiftingGears]

I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but there is some talk in the press that Hamilton is not allowed to visit the Mercedes factory (http://www.inautonews.com/mclaren-relationship-heading-downhill-for-hamilton) until the end of year. It's not clear if this is a "business as usual" rule that's part of every McLaren driver contract or whether some new rule imposed on Hamilton. I am guessing that Hamilton fuming about Button unfollowing him on Tweeter is an indication that the relationships are deteriorating. I hope that the team stays united. They need this if they want to win the constructor's championship this year.

I am pretty sure that is a standard part of most driver contracts. I seem to remember Raikkonen and/or Alonso having to wait when they were leaving their respective teams about five years ago.

[Hawkmoon]

You'd be hard pressed to find someone with a lower opinion of McLaren than me (one look at my avatar will tell you why) but I have to say that they will do everything in their power to win the WDC and they won't care which one of their drivers do it. For that I give them credit. They may be a bunch of over-corporate, uptight, knob jockeys but they are a team of racers, no doubt about it.

[Cooper_S]

All teams are corporte at last in a billion dollar sport I would hope so....but McLaren take it to another level... that's not a critism BTW.

[Malbec]

I'm not a McLaren fan but I've never noticed them being anymore corporate than any other team. Ron Dennis is a perfectionist and likes a professional approach, but McLaren has also had the reputation for being a fun team to work for from what I have read and been told. There was a big practical joke culture at McLaren and they do a lot for the mechanics and staff. I know the MTC looks a bit grey and sterile but I think they've got a good mix for those working there.

Perhaps it would be good to hear examples of this over-corporate approach from others as its something I have missed? :)

Try working at McLaren and arranging things the wrong way round as a joke and see how long you last ;) Or maybe walk in without your shirt tucked in.

You need to differentiate between what life is like for the top staff and how it differs from the corporate culture. The practical joke reputation came from Senna/Berger and Dennis two decades ago, however the F1 team and the greater company are extremely tightly run and highly regulated. If you go to the McLaren centre you'll see an incredible attention to detail at all levels which is not achieved through a lax laissez faire attitude. Staff who don't adhere to the myriad regulations do not have a good time.

Also for the drivers I don't think its any secret that life is tougher than at other teams with greater limitations than most for personal sponsorship options and a greater demand put on them for team obligations.

While I don't think any team is particularly lax McLaren by all accounts does take it to an entirely new level.

[Knock-on]

The staff at McLaren are very professional and a credit to the company but as for being these robots that people imagine???

People must think that the staff at the MTC regenerate each night like the Borg :laugh:

[Malbec]

The staff at McLaren are very professional and a credit to the company but as for being these robots that people imagine???

People must think that the staff at the MTC regenerate each night like the Borg :laugh:

Who said anything about the staff?

[Malbec]

Me in post #49

Corporate culture and whether people have fun in a company are two entirely different things though.

The latter is more down to whether you get on with the people immediately around you. Beyond zero tolerance on bullying there isn't much a company can do to influence that, but its a separate issue from broader corporate culture.

Compare HSBC and RBS (before the crunch) for example. Both similar companies to work for on a day to day level but extremely different corporate cultures especially regarding risk.

[Knock-on]

Who said anything about the staff?

You.

I think you referred to staff that tried to have fun at work or walked with a shirt untucked getting a hard time? This would imply a corporate culture that didn't tolerate any deviation from a strict regime wouldn't it?

They are very professional but they are people as well and all I am saying is that I don't recognise the picture painted on this thread. When you are working with the best F1 team in the world, you get the best people but if you know anything about success, it' all about being in balance, and a team of workaholic robots with no work / life balance, ethical working practice and a healthy social culture is not going to be the enduring success that McLaren has been.

[Malbec]

You.

I think you referred to staff that tried to have fun at work or walked with a shirt untucked getting a hard time? This would imply a corporate culture that didn't tolerate any deviation from a strict regime wouldn't it?

From what I've heard from people who have worked there there is indeed a strict dress code. This doesn't mean an overly strict regime, you'll find many different types of workplace that have equally strict regulations regarding dress.

As for staff having fun at work you've clearly misunderstood my post. Read the one above yours.


They are very professional but they are people as well and all I am saying is that I don't recognise the picture painted on this thread. When you are working with the best F1 team in the world, you get the best people but if you know anything about success, it' all about being in balance, and a team of workaholic robots with no work / life balance, ethical working practice and a healthy social culture is not going to be the enduring success that McLaren has been.

I agree totally. Nowhere did I suggest otherwise.

[Mia 01]

Martin say that they will support Lewis fully the remainer of the season. I don´t belive it for a minute.

[Cooper_S]

The old say the opposite of what you mean which seems to be prevelant in F1... I can understand a team beginning to place restrictions on a departing driver as the teams will be testing some ideas for the following season and will want to protect that as much as possible, but I would expect the team to back both drivers fully on race weekends.

[truefan72]

The staff at McLaren are very professional and a credit to the company but as for being these robots that people imagine???

People must think that the staff at the MTC regenerate each night like the Borg :laugh:

funny, and extra points for the Borg reference

In all seriousness, Mclaren are as Malbec described it and although I've supported them the past few years, I've been keenly aware that their corporate and overall culture was more Vulcan than human

[gloomyDAY]

...I've been keenly aware that their corporate and overall culture was more Vulcan than humanNerds! :D

[Robinho]

They will of course support Lewis in the title run in, and should he put himself in the situation where he is genuinely in the title race (say by winning the next 2 races), but the level of support will of course differ from what it would have been if he had re-signed for next year. He may not get in on the development talk and next years car, but he will get equal access to any new parts this year. Should they need Jenson to move over to give him that couple of pointsa that wins the title I think they will, but only when it is the couple of points that makes the difference, I would expect to see it happen before then, whereas if Lewis had stayed on we would have seen a position swap last weekend in Japan.

So he won't be left out in the cold with a crappy version of the car and no development parts, but he may not get the preferential treatment he may have been awarded if he was the sole contender and had stayed. After all, McLaren will desperatley want to win 1 of the 2 champs this year, when they have had arguably the best or equal best car for a large proportion of the season

[F1boat]

Maybe they won't support him after all. Very bizzare performances in Japan and Korea. Or maybe he really had bad setup.

[donKey jote]

They have to.
Ferrari have just taken P2 in the constructors -now that Massa is pulling his weight :)

[N4D13]

Maybe they won't support him after all. Very bizzare performances in Japan and Korea. Or maybe he really had bad setup.
Well, he had a suspension problem in Japan, and he suffered from graining and very dumb luck in Korea. It's not like he's got a great chance of winning the championship, though...

[AndyL]

Suspension failure in Korea too. Rear anti-roll bar broke on lap 18, according to Martin Whitmarsh.

[TMorel]

McLaren really do seem to build a fast car that on it's day can win, but over a season they throw it away.
More and more it seems obvious why Lewis is leaving.

For entertainments sake I'd have liked Lewis to stay, having the odd different winner here and there spices the show up, but if he craves a championship more than the occasional win then squandering it at Merc is as good as any of the other options.

[TMorel]

henners
Squandering was a bad choice of word.
Do I think Merc will deliver? No, personally I think they are a peg or three below.
Do I think Lewis is right to try? Totally.
My feeling is it's more likely for Merc to prove me wrong than it is for McLaren to stop making a bridesmaid out of a bride.

[ArrowsFA1]

I haven't seen Whitmarsh's interview after the race but apparently he made little mention of Lewis...


Martin Whitmarsh: "Lewis' point was probably the hardest won and most heroically fought world championship point in McLaren’s long history."
https://twitter.com/thefifthdriver/status/257540144435978241

[TMorel]

https://twitter.com/thefifthdriver/status/257540144435978241

Odd, when I click the link I says not found. HAS MCLAREN DEFOLLOWFRIENDED ME ???? :(

[Knock-on]

What a sentimental load of softies you lot are :kiss:

You have a formula one team where a driver is leaving to go to a competitor and expect everyone to be luvvy dovey? I get on OK with my Ex missus but she doesn't feature one iota in my personal life.

McLaren, will support Lewis 100% to do the very best job he can for the team and hopefully secure 2nd in the championship but is it any wonder that personally the team is looking towards the current and future drivers?

I don't know how much of this is true but if Lewis feels a little removed from the inner McLaren family, he needs to man up a bit and be realistic. I will always support him but really???

Get to Mercedes, destroy Nico and fight like crazy to win another Championship. That's what I want to see from Lewis and none of this self indulgent moping that seems to be coming out.

McLaren are getting on with establishing a team that will challenge for the best they can do this year and the 2013 titles, Lewis needs to do the best he can this year and then look to the future.

[Tazio]

The Boss is still getting his McLaren setup the way he and his engineer want it. Give me a break with the conspiracy theorys. McLaren are simply dead in the water. They will be lucky to beat Ferrari pilots in the WCC, and that's not saying much. :s tareup:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi0xN499IXE

[shane 2012]

Lewis is a great alrounder an no matter what goes on next year he knows this years chance of wdc is out of the window,Martin Whitmarsh isn't behind Lewis and nor has he been since he took over in his new role an whitmarsh has only got himself to blame for the departure of Lewis,for the last 3 seasons now maclaren have given it its all at the beggining of the season then when it's not gone the way whitmarsh was expecting he always changed his statements to we're now concentrating on next years car an Lewis has seen it happen too many times now and a change in his mind has made him move and he'll be thinking that a new place is a new start and a new start means a new peace of mind and a kick start to his career.
Lewis knows that leaving all he's known since he was 13 is a big thing to do but also knows Ross Brawn is no fool,he took Micheal to 5 of the 7 world titles as well as jensans world title and there for Lewis knows although he's leaving an established team as maclaren Ross Brawn will be helping him the best he can an deep down i think Ross Brawns more releaved he's got a world class driver joining his team and yeah if Brawn faces the thruth that yeah micheals a great ambassador for F1 but he's too okd to get another title and Lewis will be the one to do it for his team and that Lewis's team mate will also back Lewis and the team.

[The Black Knight]

Lewis is a great alrounder an no matter what goes on next year he knows this years chance of wdc is out of the window,Martin Whitmarsh isn't behind Lewis and nor has he been since he took over in his new role an whitmarsh has only got himself to blame for the departure of Lewis,for the last 3 seasons now maclaren have given it its all at the beggining of the season then when it's not gone the way whitmarsh was expecting he always changed his statements to we're now concentrating on next years car an Lewis has seen it happen too many times now and a change in his mind has made him move and he'll be thinking that a new place is a new start and a new start means a new peace of mind and a kick start to his career.
Lewis knows that leaving all he's known since he was 13 is a big thing to do but also knows Ross Brawn is no fool,he took Micheal to 5 of the 7 world titles as well as jensans world title and there for Lewis knows although he's leaving an established team as maclaren Ross Brawn will be helping him the best he can an deep down i think Ross Brawns more releaved he's got a world class driver joining his team and yeah if Brawn faces the thruth that yeah micheals a great ambassador for F1 but he's too okd to get another title and Lewis will be the one to do it for his team and that Lewis's team mate will also back Lewis and the team.

Did you ever hear of punctuation? ;)

[F1boat]

to be fair, they really tried today :)

[Bagwan]

Lewis needs a script .
I read an interview where he said he basically has no chance next year .
His reasoning being , that he isn't involved in developing the car .
He recants slightly , saying that Michael and Nico will be doing a fine job , but he manages to diss a load of people in one fell swoop .



“Obviously I would love to win World Championship next year, but it all depends on how they develop the car,”
“I can’t be part of that development until next year, so the development that’s going on right now I won’t have anything to do with it. But I know Michael will be doing a solid job, and so will Nico.

“But I think the targets are for the future – 2014, 2015 – that’s when the rules change and that’s when I really want to target the World Championship.

“When you move to a new team that’s not been successful, it doesn’t just change like that.

“It takes months and months, maybe 12-14 months, and I anticipate that will be the case.”


Lewis would do well to remember that they have been successful . Perhaps not as Merc yet , but no need to write them off .
Why shouldn't it change just like that ? It did for Jensen at the same team with a different name .

I thought you guys all told me that this guy is a racer .
What the hell is he doing giving up before he's even started this new challenge of his ?

[ArrowsFA1]

I read an interview where he said he basically has no chance next year.
Where does he say that?

He's quoted as saying he'd like to win the championship in 2013. That depends on how Mercedes will develop the car. The development being done now by Michael and Nico is solid, but when a driver moves to a new team it takes time. His main target for the title is 2014/5.

That's not "giving up". That's perfectly realistic IMHO.

[Bagwan]

Where does he say that?

He's quoted as saying he'd like to win the championship in 2013. That depends on how Mercedes will develop the car. The development being done now by Michael and Nico is solid, but when a driver moves to a new team it takes time. His main target for the title is 2014/5.

That's not "giving up". That's perfectly realistic IMHO.

I guess my disappointment is with him not taking the opportunity to up his new team .
His target is 14/15 , as you say , but , whether that's realistic or not , why not speculate that it might be a good car ?
It's easily read , if a "realistic" view of what he said is taken , that he sees next year as "realistically' written off , without his input .

I should note as well , that Lewis is touted as being amply able to drive around problems .

Toss in the fact that they've been working with him for years as an engine supplier , and you might imagine they'd have a few of his traces around to look at , which would be a big advantage over bringing in someone they have no idea about .
They can tell a lot about a guy from throttle settings alone .
In that sense , he actually does have some input .

Don't give up , Lewis . It doesn't look so bad at all .

[gloomyDAY]

Lewis needs a script .
I read an interview where he said he basically has no chance next year .
His reasoning being , that he isn't involved in developing the car .
He recants slightly , saying that Michael and Nico will be doing a fine job , but he manages to diss a load of people in one fell swoop .



“Obviously I would love to win World Championship next year, but it all depends on how they develop the car,”
“I can’t be part of that development until next year, so the development that’s going on right now I won’t have anything to do with it. But I know Michael will be doing a solid job, and so will Nico.

“But I think the targets are for the future – 2014, 2015 – that’s when the rules change and that’s when I really want to target the World Championship.

“When you move to a new team that’s not been successful, it doesn’t just change like that.

“It takes months and months, maybe 12-14 months, and I anticipate that will be the case.”


Lewis would do well to remember that they have been successful . Perhaps not as Merc yet , but no need to write them off .
Why shouldn't it change just like that ? It did for Jensen at the same team with a different name .

I thought you guys all told me that this guy is a racer .
What the hell is he doing giving up before he's even started this new challenge of his ?Link? I think you're reading far more into his statements, dude.

[Bagwan]

Link? I think you're reading far more into his statements, dude.

Link , eh ?
You don't believe it's a direct quote ?
If I was thinking of making it up , don't you think I could have come up with something a little more inflammatory ?

It sounds pretty obvious to me that he's written off next year when he says he's looking at success only after 12-14 months .

If you were working at Merc , designing next year's car , how would you feel having your new guy down-playing his chances because of your design ?

[ArrowsFA1]

If Hamilton said he was going to win the title with Mercedes next year no doubt he'd be called "arrogant" :rolleyes:

[driveace]

I would not say he is giving up before he has started,I believe he is being realistic .He will not be driving next years Merc until January,and that car will be on the drawing boards now !So he goes to a car that he has had no imput into ,but believe me he will drive the arse off it,and then developments he wants will start,but he cannot have an initial say in the design of next years car from the start.Nico will have to up his game too.And Button ? Well Mc Laren will realise what a big mistake they have made pissing Lewis about !

[truefan72]

after today's "electrical failure" why slow man button's car has none

I would say NO!

[Ranger]

after today's "electrical failure" why slow man button's car has none

I would say NO!

You weren't watching Button at Monza were you?

There is no conspiracy, only poor quality control.

[jens]

McLaren surely has dropped the ball significantly this year (and I don't mean it in terms of "supporting" LH, but general team operations). Reliability-wise they already remind a bit of what they were sometimes 10 or 15 years ago. I think with an excellent reliability Häkkinen should have been up there in the championship in 1997, but he retired like three or four times from the lead. Hamilton's season is reminiscent of that. As a result he is nowhere near the WDC fight, only 5th in the standings, although speed-wise he should be up there.

I find it astonishing that McLaren is behind Ferrari in WCC, considering, how much Massa has been struggling this season and how McLaren has often been able to qualify at the front.

[truefan72]

McLaren surely has dropped the ball significantly this year (and I don't mean it in terms of "supporting" LH, but general team operations). Reliability-wise they already remind a bit of what they were sometimes 10 or 15 years ago. I think with an excellent reliability Häkkinen should have been up there in the championship in 1997, but he retired like three or four times from the lead. Hamilton's season is reminiscent of that. As a result he is nowhere near the WDC fight, only 5th in the standings, although speed-wise he should be up there.

I find it astonishing that McLaren is behind Ferrari in WCC, considering, how much Massa has been struggling this season and how McLaren has often been able to qualify at the front.

well said

[F1boat]

I think with an excellent reliability Häkkinen should have been up there in the championship in 1997, but he retired like three or four times from the lead. Hamilton's season is reminiscent of that.

Season 2000 was also horrific, Mika suffered something like 10 retirements, if I am not mistaken...

[truefan72]

You weren't watching Button at Monza were you?

There is no conspiracy, only poor quality control.

a bit of the silver mist in my eyes, but this is beyond ridiculous
and that poor quality control in the last 5 races seems rather lopsided

electrical failure
phantom transmission problems
mechanical failures
etc, etc, etc.

I think Hamilton has made the right decision.

[F1boat]

We'll see about that. Mercedes sucked mightily in this race again.

[jens]

Season 2000 was also horrific, Mika suffered something like 10 retirements, if I am not mistaken...

I think you have 2001 in mind. :) Yes, that was a pretty terrible season for Mika, including the legendary last-lap retirement in Spain...



I think Hamilton has made the right decision.

Well... While McLaren is still clearly better than Mercedes, Hamilton must have a funny feeling. He either has a fast car, which is unreliable and inconsistent. Or a car, which is just plain slow. He might have thoughts like "Wasn't there really an opening in Red Bull, Ferrari or Lotus?"

But the good thing for him is that he can leave McLaren with a positive feeling despite those DNFs! By this I mean that while Mercedes is not great, he knows that McLaren isn't either, so he isn't going to miss out on multiple championship titles by making the switch.

[Bagwan]

If Hamilton said he was going to win the title with Mercedes next year no doubt he'd be called "arrogant" :rolleyes:

Anyone would be called arrogant for an outright "I'm gonna win ." , Arrows .

How about an "I can't wait to get a hold of that car . They are saying it's developing nicely ."

Or perhaps a "Why not ?" , when asked if he can win next year .

How about a "Now that they know I'm on board , they are working to try to make it suit my style , and that should help a lot when I get in the car and start working on a suitable set-up ."



I get what he is trying to say , that it will be tough for him next year , in a new team , with a car designed with less of his style imposed upon it .
The way he said it , though , could be easily mis-interpretted , and no driver can afford to rock the boat before he boards it , not even Lewis .

He's on the outside now , but he's been in the number one("We're racing Fernando.") position as well .

Many slips like this and Nico will have the smiley side of the garage .

[steveaki13]

I think you have 2001 in mind. :) Yes, that was a pretty terrible season for Mika, including the legendary last-lap retirement in Spain...


.

That was a terrible season for Mclaren in many ways. Mika was poor form most of the races, Mclaren had many retirements from mechanical issues and they were beggining to fall way behind Ferrari on pass and were even past by Williams.

That Mika retirement in Spain was unreal. Made worse by the fact Ferrari had major issues in Schumachers car.

[F1boat]

That Mika retirement in Spain was unreal. Made worse by the fact Ferrari had major issues in Schumachers car.

Yes. The worst end to a Grand Prix I have watched. Only the end of the 1997 Hungarian Grand Prix is equally horrible.

[Big Ben]

It's silly to think that McLaren would sabotage Hamilton just because he's leaving next year... that they would throw a WDC for spite... I think the show just got too deep inside some people's head. This is not a telenovela :laugh:

[jens]

It's silly to think that McLaren would sabotage Hamilton just because he's leaving next year...

Absolutely. McLaren is fighting for P2 in the WCC and I am sure they are very interested in the extra money that would come with a higher WCC position. Especially as they are likely to lose sponsors going by recent developments.

As for any kind of sabotage theories. All I can tell to people is to think about the following: after you have spent many days, weeks, even months building a house, suffered from exhaustion and overworking, would you destroy it after completing it? Probably not, because that would be pure insanity considering the effort you have put in to complete the task.

Same applies to F1 teams. It is unimaginable, how much effort, time and money is invested to design, build and develop those cars to be fast and as competitive as possible. And to undo the whole work and effort by sabotaging is just absolutely unthinkable. You have to think from their perspective. It doesn't make any sense after you have spent the whole year working hard to make the car competitive. You wouldn't destroy your own professional work, would you? This applies to all those hundreds of employees in the team.

[steveaki13]

I agree with Jens.

No reason they shouldn't go all out to finish as high in the WCC as possible, after that extra money increases their chances of being able to design a better car next season.

Reason Button was way behind Hamilton, is because he is not as fast when Lewis is at his best. The team know that and Jenson nows that, but they will push hard to design a car for next season which will give Button & Perez there best chance, while Lewis will start the challenge of bringing Mercedes to the front.

Lets hope both happen and we see a good season in 2013

[The Black Knight]

McLaren don't need to support Lewis for any meaningful gain this season now and its basically a cruise and collect situation. I think his performance in Abu Dhabi must have been tough for McLaren to watch. Jenson struggling with no real explanation as to why he lacked pace and Lewis storming at the front only to be let down by unreliability. Watching Perez make a silly error must have been concerning too. There's no doubt Lewis will leave a void at McLaren in the immediate future and I have no doubt Lewis is looking forward to next season more than the team.

Yeah, and Lewis has really come alive this season. He has had incredibly bad luck and, in my opinion, he would have been WDC this year were it not for McLaren errors. I can see next season being a really tough one for McLaren but we may be pleasantly surprised. I really don't understand their decision to sign Perez. Hulk or DiResta, either, would have been a much better choice.

[F1boat]

He has had incredibly bad luck and, in my opinion, he would have been WDC this year were it not for McLaren errors.

Very likely, but you take the good and the bad - he benefited from the pace McLaren had in some races and in the same time suffered from their problems.

[The Black Knight]

It sounds like you think he should just smile and accept his team haven't delivered. The problem Lewis has is he has experienced just how fast the car can be, but has seen that other teams have been more consistent. These guys are racing to win and Hamilton has had arguably one of his best seasons performance wise, only to lose out greatly through unreliability and team cock ups. The moment Lewis hints at being slightly frustrated, he's lynched by the fans of rival teams and drivers. Its a situation where he can do very little but hide his true feelings. He walked away from his stricken car in the race on Sunday smiling and to me that suggested he has just come to accept his time with the team ending can't come soon enough. I don't think he feels anger towards the team but you can't blame him for wanting a new challenge elsewhere. Its been a poor year for McLaren. I think 2012 for Lewis will be remembered for him doing everything right but lacking with the vital package.

Actually, I've looked back recently at his 07 and 08 seasons and he has made less mistakes this year than those years. This has actually been his best season to date from a driving perspective, it's just that McLaren haven't delivered him the package. Having pace in the odd race here and there is no good if you have multiple bad pit stops, two races with suspension issues, under fueled in qualifying and 5 DNF's which were out of your control. It's just a shame the results don't reflect the huge effort he has put in for himself and the team.

[F1boat]

It sounds like you think he should just smile and accept his team haven't delivered.

No. I just think that McLaren gave him a car, which allowed him to shine. But not to win - and in this they have truly failed. But in the same time Mercedes gave Michael a car which allowed him neither to win, nor even to shine - except in Monaco.

[Bagwan]

Mac has given a car to Lewis that suits him down to the ground .
They've done a great job for Lewis in that respect .

But , on the other side of the garage , Button has struggled all year long .
When Lewis lost it and tweeted telemetry , it showed he wasn't expecting to have lost to his team-mate .
He knows the car suits him and doesn't suit Jensen .

His comments that had him discounting next year as a write-off seem to point not to the fact Button can't drive around a good car's problems , but rather that it's only a good car for Lewis , himself .

[Tazio]

That's crazy talk Bags :laugh:

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/pc/Lewis+Hamilton+Lewis+Hamilton+Flips+Off+Photogs+0F bWI7p1Rp_l.jpg

[Knock-on]

It's not just Vettel that can do the finger :laugh:

[F1boat]

PS: Trying to get my head around it, are you hinting that Lewis is making a mistake going to Mercedes based on the cars performance this year?

I think that you may soon curse the day he left McLaren.

[The Black Knight]

I am well aware that McLaren are a team very capable of winning races and they will continue to win races once Lewis has moved on. I'm not expecting Lewis to win the Championship next year and if he isn't in the running the following year I will not be surprised. Rome wasn't built in a day and we all know lewis is taking a gamble with his move. A driver needs to feel comfortable within a team as well as be able to win for the perfect balance and that is evidently lacking at McLaren. For that reason alone I will not be cursing the day he left McLaren.

I can't see McLaren winning a championship anytime soon. They are up and down more times than a whores knickers. Whether it be reliability, bad strategy (a department they have always been lacking really), an inconsistent car, a dud car, bad pit stops or whatever, there is always something. No use in winning 5 races a year if you can never win a championship.

[spudrsca]

Mac has given a car to Lewis that suits him down to the ground .
They've done a great job for Lewis in that respect .

But , on the other side of the garage , Button has struggled all year long .
When Lewis lost it and tweeted telemetry , it showed he wasn't expecting to have lost to his team-mate .
He knows the car suits him and doesn't suit Jensen .

His comments that had him discounting next year as a write-off seem to point not to the fact Button can't drive around a good car's problems , but rather that it's only a good car for Lewis , himself .

Are you serious?
Mabe it's more about the tires. Remember the year with Brawn when he was the clear number 1, he struggle on many gp to heat the tires.
Remember his victories with huge gamble on srategy because he was awful on the intermediate tires.
Button the tire master is just a myth. Lewis maybe struggled on some occasions because he was attacking too much too fight with faster cars but he never struggled as much as Button to be on many occasions the slowest guy on certain tires like the intermediate tires where you need to keep them warn.
Lewis problem was sometimes to overcook them but it's easier to deal with that by pushing less than to don't know how to operate with some kind of tires.

Button is known to not adapt his driving to the car he has.
Lewis is far more adaptable. I've seen a youtube video of quali laps of Lewis on Ahbu dhabi on two different years. And although on many corners, he had the same line, when you see the throttle and break gauge, you see that he doesn't do it the same way, same results but he does it by controling his car while Button is not able to do it, he can only drive in a certain fashion.
Lewis can balance his car with weight transfer, Button not.
Even Button said it that even on same set-up, he will tend to have more understeer than Lewis. Look at the braking and throttle of Lewis to enter the corners in the last sector.

[Dave B]

a bit of the silver mist in my eyes, but this is beyond ridiculous
and that poor quality control in the last 5 races seems rather lopsided

electrical failure
phantom transmission problems
mechanical failures
etc, etc, etc.

I think Hamilton has made the right decision.
I love the idea that a team would sacrifice Constructors' points and the invaluable PR which goes with a win, just to settle a score with a driver who is leaving for a rival team. I like a good conspiracy theory as much as the next man, but seriously?

[truefan72]

I can't see McLaren winning a championship anytime soon. They are up and down more times than a whores knickers. Whether it be reliability, bad strategy (a department they have always been lacking really), an inconsistent car, a dud car, bad pit stops or whatever, there is always something. No use in winning 5 races a year if you can never win a championship.

exactly :up:

funny enough when he was coming in with strong performances earlier in the year ( albeit no race victory, although deserved) I was still encouraged by the consistency. And once the victory came and he took the WDC lead, I said to myself that this is the kind of results that win you WDC's. Consistency and a few wins. Sadly the car/team has failed him too often in the latter half of the year where even finishing in the top 4 regularly has eluded him.
I've mentally left mclaren already and can't wait for this season to end soon enough so we can focus on the new challenge.

[truefan72]

I love the idea that a team would sacrifice Constructors' points and the invaluable PR which goes with a win, just to settle a score with a driver who is leaving for a rival team. I like a good conspiracy theory as much as the next man, but seriously?

I don't think it is done on-purpose, But I do belief there is a lack of 100% effort coming from that side of the garage.
Which inevitably leads to the results we have seen. A system problem with vehicle would show up in both cars, but it is rather odd that only one would consistently break down, while the other seems to have plenty of life in it

[CaptainRaiden]

I don't buy into sabotaging theories, never have. Mclaren surely are paying their utmost attention to preparing the car as best as they can for both their drivers for the remaining races. At this point, Lewis is just a driving machine fetching valuable WCC points for them, which translates into more TV money and a chance to beat Ferrari in the WCC standings. More wins and more money also means more resources for R&D for next year's car to have a great showing, which keeps the sponsors happy too. It's a win-win for all. Why would they want to ruin their chances?

Lewis obviously wants to end his Mclaren career on a high, so they've got a motivated, bloody fast driver at their disposal to get maximum points and more wins under their belt for the remainder of the season. Why would they deliberately not pay attention to all details of a car they spend millions setting up for every race? Sounds like a REALLY bad business strategy to me just out of spite for a driver. :D

Besides, it's not like Mclaren are magically having all these mechanical problems now. The team has always had the reputation of making bloody fast, but highly unreliable cars. Just ask Mika or Kimi how many of their WDC chances have been binned because of the legendary Mclaren unreliability. When they got it right speed and reliability wise, their drivers shone. Lewis almost had a dominant WDC win in his debut year.

It's motorsports, high performance machines performing at their bleeding maximum for two hours, failures are bound to happen. Mclaren seem to have the lion's share of these failures, probably because of their development rate or maybe they try to make up for a deficit and push the boundaries of their cars a bit more than other teams. Who knows?

[SGWilko]

I can't see McLaren winning a championship anytime soon. They are up and down more times than a whores knickers. Whether it be reliability, bad strategy (a department they have always been lacking really), an inconsistent car, a dud car, bad pit stops or whatever, there is always something. No use in winning 5 races a year if you can never win a championship.

Do whores bother with kecks?

[F1boat]

Rome wasn't built in a day and we all know lewis is taking a gamble with his move.

But it was burned in one :D Nevertheless I respect your opinion and understand your point of view. Cheers.

[Koz]

But it was burned in one :D Nevertheless I respect your opinion and understand your point of view. Cheers.

Naw took 6 days to burn Rome :p

[Tazio]

Naw took 6 days to burn Rome :p

................and was rebuilt without having any effect on its practice of bitch-slapping Europe, the Middle East, and North Africa for over 400 more years. :dozey:

[zako85]

Whitmarsh: I still don’t get Hamilton’s decision (http://www.crash.net/f1/news/185915/1/whitmarsh_i_still_dont_get_hamiltons_decision.html )

[Triumph]

I hope that the Mercedes improves for next year, but I can't help thinking that Lewis has made a mistake in leaving McLaren.

I don't know what's up with him these days, but everything seemed to change abruptly at the point he fell out with his dad, and he hasn't been the same since.

He seems quite immature for his age and often appears to lack judgement in the things he says and does both on and off the track. Maybe his dad did all his thinking for him, and he now finds it difficult without that guidance.

Let's hope for something better next year.

:)

[zako85]

I am one of the few people who think that Hamilton made the right decision. A change of environment after a decidedly bad year with McLaren will boost his morale and make him happier. McLaren failed him on several occasions this year and who knows how long it will take to get its stuff together. I think it's more rewarding to earn say a forth place in WDC when driving a Mercedes than drive the fastest car then end up in fourth spot anyways because the team screwed up. Granted, Mercedes does not appear to be a particularly bright team right now either.

[Big Ben]

I don't think it is done on-purpose, But I do belief there is a lack of 100% effort coming from that side of the garage.
Which inevitably leads to the results we have seen. A system problem with vehicle would show up in both cars, but it is rather odd that only one would consistently break down, while the other seems to have plenty of life in it

maybe grandpa Bunsen is taking better care his car... after all he's driving most of the time like there's no hurry to get anywhere..

[driveace]

Well now today in Austin,Lewis gets the job done as regards quali,and Bunson gets the bad luck ,OR have they swapped sides in the garage ?
I honestly feel that Lewis has done the correct move next year,and that Merc will have its neck rung out of it next year!And it won't be far off the pace at the start of next year !

[truefan72]

Well now today in Austin,Lewis gets the job done as regards quali,and Bunson gets the bad luck ,OR have they swapped sides in the garage ?


the race is still to come, plenty of time for mclaren to screw up on his side of the garage ;)

[F1boat]

McLaren showed their might again... they may have had issues, but a very, very fast car as well.

[AndyL]

Well now today in Austin,Lewis gets the job done as regards quali,and Bunson gets the bad luck ,OR have they swapped sides in the garage ?

Well Jenson did have a chassis that was supposed to have been allocated to Lewis! There was a piece on Sky with Georgie Thompson in the McLaren paint shop working on what was supposed to be Lewis's chassis for Austin, but for whatever reason they shuffled things around and when they arrived in Austin, the car with Georgie's signature on was on Jenson's side of the garage. How's that for conspiracy theory material!

[truefan72]

ron dennis interview in the sky post game is so so bitter
sour grapes, get over it

[F1boat]

ron dennis interview in the sky post game is so so bitter
sour grapes, get over it

Ron always sounds bitter. It's part of his charm.

[gloomyDAY]

ron dennis interview in the sky post game is so so bitter
sour grapes, get over itSeriously. That interview was almost cringeworthy.

Here's Ron's interview with Sky post-USGP. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLOt_rSPuBo)

[AndyL]

It may have been a chassis Lewis had used in the past or vice versa as they alternate cars all year long.

They do, but at the time they were painting it, it was scheduled to be used by Lewis in Austin.

[AndyL]

Not sure what relevance it has in the grand scheme of things but fair enough.

The relevance is only as stated in the original post: it's the sort of incidental fact that is often used to support conspiracy theories.

[Mark]

In terms of getting race wins or championships then perhaps he's made the wrong move. However; he's had 6 years at McLaren now, he's probably thinking "Am I going to be racing for McLaren my entire career?", perhaps he thought it was time for something different in his life, now when he's still at the top of his game.

[Bagwan]

Yes , the old car switch gambit worked for Lewis this time .
It fits perfectly with the sabotage theories of last time when they let him down .

Or , maybe the plan was to give him the good car , with the devious plan of making him rue the fact that he's leaving .

That would make it the old double switcheroo . Oh , those clever McLaren guys .

Of course , though , there is also the evidence , laid out for all to see , with Lewis taking points from Sebastian , that it was actually Ferrari that entered quietly during the night and switched the cars .

Lewis likely knew of the switch immediately , as the "J" car is designed to be slow and puzzling , regarding set-up , and he was fast right away .
This , of course , is the most compelling evidence that he will obviously be in a red car in the near future .

Well , that and the fact that I heard that he was overheard a short while ago in an un-named butcher shop , being schooled on how to properly say "provolone" , which is Italian , and we all know which team speaks Italian .

[steveaki13]

In terms of getting race wins or championships then perhaps he's made the wrong move. However; he's had 6 years at McLaren now, he's probably thinking "Am I going to be racing for McLaren my entire career?", perhaps he thought it was time for something different in his life, now when he's still at the top of his game.



Spot On Mark.

This is how I see it.

[Tazio]

In terms of getting race wins or championships then perhaps he's made the wrong move. However; he's had 6 years at McLaren now, he's probably thinking "Am I going to be racing for McLaren my entire career?", perhaps he thought it was time for something different in his life, now when he's still at the top of his game.
Amen. :up:

[zako85]

In terms of getting race wins or championships then perhaps he's made the wrong move. However; he's had 6 years at McLaren now, he's probably thinking "Am I going to be racing for McLaren my entire career?", perhaps he thought it was time for something different in his life, now when he's still at the top of his game.

Hamilton interviewed with RBR in 2011. This is telling that he's not happy with McLaren for some reason. Most likely it's out of frustration with the car and occasional sloppy pit crew work. Hamilton is a top flight drier, yet he couldn't have a fair shot at WDC in three out of those six years (2009/2011/2012). Moving out of McLaren is a huge gamble though.

I do wonder what's going on with Mercedes. I suspect they abandoned 2012 car development a long time ago. Just look at the results. Zero points scored after Singapore GP. Perhaps they're preparing to give us some kind of surprise next year? If Hamilton wasn't going to move to Mercedes, I wouldn't have been expecting the next season as anxiously as now.

[AndyL]

The more things like this I read, the more I think Lewis will be back at McLaren in a couple of years.
BBC Sport - Brazilian GP: Tearful Lewis Hamilton discusses McLaren exit (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20473468)
Martin Whitmarsh also sounded quite open to the possibility in an interview on Sky.

[F1boat]

The more things like this I read, the more I think Lewis will be back at McLaren in a couple of years.
BBC Sport - Brazilian GP: Tearful Lewis Hamilton discusses McLaren exit (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20473468)
Martin Whitmarsh also sounded quite open to the possibility in an interview on Sky.
Yes, it sounds that he will come back after Jenson retires IMO. But we have to wait and see what happens - he might achieve great success in Mercedes and/or find the atmosphere in the team to be more pleasant to him.