Hamilton to Mercedes - Confirmed

[kfzmeister]

Eddie Jordan and BBC reporting. Could it be true?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19489930?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+jaf1%2Fbbcf1+%28BBC+Sport+|+M otorsport+|+Formula+1+|+UK+Edition%29 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19489930?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+jaf1%2Fbbcf1+%28BBC+Sport+%7C +Motorsport+%7C+Formula+1+%7C+UK+Edition%29)

[I am evil Homer]

If Eddie says something i'm generally inclined to think the opposite is true.

Leaving McLaren for the headcase that is Mercedes AMG? Seems like a backwards step to me.

[kfzmeister]

If Eddie says something i'm generally inclined to think the opposite is true.

He was the one to break the Schumacher comeback story. People ridiculed it, too.
Twitter boards are lighting up this story now. Some even suggest Schumacher stays and Niko moves to Macca.....

[Anubis]

I've often wondered whether EJ's rather rambling demeanour is a very clever device to get people to trust him more? Not saying he isn't that way generally, but rather like Boris Johson, playing up to the image can be useful. I can certainly see how team insiders would be looser lipped when talking to EJ than someone more stern and severe. Just a theory.

As for the move, should it ever happen, it would seem like a backwards step, but stranger things have happened. Given his relationship with Mercedes, it could be a "build a team around Lewis" sort of deal rather than the equal footing he has with Button. They might also have offered him a tonne of money.

[Stuartf12007]

i hope he goes somewhere, the guy always has the hump, sick of his miserable face on my tv.

[The Black Knight]

Great story to strengthen Hamilton's bargaining power with McLaren. Terrible career move if there is any truth to it. I do think Hamilton needs to leave McLaren alright, especially of they don't provide him with the right car the rest of this year, but for either Red Bull or Ferrari, not Mercedes.

[Knock-on]

I seriously can't believe this is true. It goes against everything I have heard and I will be devastated if this happens. I just cannot give it credibility. Jordan is wrong.

[AndyL]

Great story to strengthen Hamilton's bargaining power with McLaren. Terrible career move if there is any truth to it.

Yes if there's anything to it at all, it must be just a negotiating position. I guess McLaren still won't agree to Lewis keeping his silverware!

[driveace]

Just what is Lewis on ? If he is serious about going to Mercedes,what does he expect to achieve ?The only time this team was quick off the mark was when it was called Brawn,and they read the rules correct,getting the rear difuser on the car for the beginning of the season giving Button the wins he had with them.Maybe he has told them at Mercedes that he has lots and lots of information from McLaren that he can share with them !

[steveaki13]

I don't know like others if this is true or not but its not always a bad move for a driver to move on.

If Lewis is disenchanted with Mclaren, then he may feel the time is right for a move. Very rarely do drivers stay at the same team for their careers and sometimes for driver and team a change can help both improve their situations.

Afterall Mercedes is comparitively new F1 team, and they have managed to get themselves towards the front of F1 at times also as Brawn they won double titles.
They have a great Engine and potential for alot of investment and some good people there. So with a driver of currant top standing there is room to become a regular front runner which would be the first step needed.

Not saying Nico and Michael aren't good drivers, but Nico has no experience of a F1 title fight or regular front running car, and Michael is not going to be around for years to come. So a move for Hamilton might well turn things around.

Its a long shot but its possible.

As for Hamilton clearly he is in a better car now, but you can't always stay at the best team if things under the surface are wrong, it just doesn't work. (Notice I did say IF something is wrong).

Finally look at Red Bull they had years of 06-08 being a midfield car, then suddenly became dominant over the next few seasons so it just shows that F1 can turn around and Mercedes could yet offer Lewis a title challenger.

I think it will be exciting to see what happens if he does move on. Good Luck to Lewis where ever he is next year.

[steveaki13]

Also another aspect is who Mclaren would bring in??

A straight swap for Rosberg maybe likely, but I would have thought Schumi would retire this season and Nico and Lewis would be a likely line up.

Di Resta was linked with Mercedes but I am not sure Mclaren would risk Paul in a front running car yet?

[00steven]

I thought there was a report a while back Mercedes GP was possibly leaving after next year? At any rate, I just can't believe Lewis and Mclaren would be so far apart that he would leave for Mercedes.

[Zico]

I fully believe that this is just a stunt by Fuller to try and improve Lewis bargaining position over a new contract with McLaren. Eddie doesn't yet know it,but he is just the channel they used.

Lewis to Mercedes? lol. He's not THAT stupid... er, I hope!

[big_sw2000]

Well maybe not the best idea for next year. But with the Engine and rule changes for 2013. Then maybe, just maybe, a full works team is the place to be.

Steve

[steveaki13]

Yeah I doubt they would place him there. They would be pretty gutted losing Lewis and replacing him with Di Resta. That reminds me of 1994 where McLaren lost Senna to Williams and gained Brundle lol.

Yeah.

I like Brundle and he was a good driver, but its different gravy when compared to Senna. Lol


I know McLaren are set to lose Mercedes engines in the coming years which is a factor to consider.

Lewis was a member of the Mercedes young driver program and they funded his career through McLaren so he has history with both teams on a business level.

Interesting point on his link with Mercedes. Forgotten that.

Also when do the radical rules completely change F1? Is it now 2014?

This could see F1 completely turned around. Teams made fade away and others may step up as well as the field potentially being spread apart again like 10 years ago.

Whatever we could see a few major moves for next season so the teams have settled lineups going into the upheaval of 2014.

[kfzmeister]

Quite frankly, i'm ready to see him in an uncompetitive car. See what he's really made of. How will he fare? :D

[MAX_THRUST]

How long does the Macs have Merc engines for?

Lewis with Ross Brawn could be interesting.

Guess we have to wait and see/

[I am evil Homer]

Quite frankly, i'm ready to see him in an uncompetitive car. See what he's really made of. How will he fare? :D

He had that with McLaren already and still won a fantastic race in Hungary. That Mac was an absolute dog.

[Mark]

You make a good point, remember McLaren use Mercedes engines after all.

[AndyL]

How long does the Macs have Merc engines for?

It's now to 2015 I believe, but quite possible they could continue as a Mercedes customer after that.

[fandango]

I've talked about this as a logical possibility before, even though the only thing I share with Eddie Jordan is nationality. The fact is that it is Mercedes who are desperate to have a top driver. Mercedes is an enormous brand, far bigger than McLaren, and they need to either start winning in F1 or cut their losses.

The big thing they are missing is a driver who will definitely win if the car can win. Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren and Lotus all have a driver who will deliver. Rosberg and Schumacher are both brilliant, but for different reasons they're not at the same level as the top level drivers in F1 at the moment. Hamilton, Button, Alonso, Vettel, Webber or Kimi could all do better than either of those two in the current Mercedes, at least that's how it looks.

Hamilton seems to have decided that whatever happens this year, if he doesn't win the WDC it won't be because of his driving or past brain fades. Ferrari and Red Bull both see him as too much trouble, justifiably or not. He's clearly not 100% happy at McLaren. He should sign with Mercedes for a huge sum of money, to ensure that they build the team around him succeeding. If it doesn't work out McLaren will take him back, or someone else will take him by then.

I think he needs to trust his talent, make a change and move on.

[Malbec]

Mercedes is an enormous brand,

I agree, and a brand that they want to protect.

With Rosberg and Schumacher (especially Schumacher) they have two decently quick drivers who are extremely polished OUTSIDE the car and make great ambassadors for the team and the brand.

Of the two McLaren drivers Jenson would be the most similar to what they want.

Unfortunately I don't think Lewis' brand fits in with Mercedes. Outside the car some of his behaviour has been erratic with the Twittergate episode merely being the latest and he has a blingy entourage. I don't think either of those characteristics fit with the Mercedes brand.

Will Mercedes care about this aspect? Since I believe that they persisted with Schumacher mainly because of his publicity assets I suspect the answer is yes.

Would Lewis want to go to Mercedes when he's on the cusp of a deal with McLaren? He's probably looking at two factors, car competitiveness and pay. Mercedes cannot compete with McLaren when it comes to competitiveness so if he's tempted to switch to Brackley its probably pay. Given that Mercedes have only just upped their budget to the RRA limits I don't think they'd be interested in offering Lewis the kind of pay he'd need to tempt him away from Woking.

[Malbec]

Lewis drives a Mercedes powered car and still does Mercedes PR events so not sure I agree he doesn't fit the brand. He's already a face of their brand and has been since his days in the Mercedes Young Driver Development program. He can be a bit of a tool in front of the media at times, but I doubt Merc are worried this would put people off buying their cars. If people don't buy cars based on a racing drivers interview etiquette, then I think the issues lie a lot deeper than product perception.

Lewis has changed over the years though. When he first started in F1 with Mercedes backing I thought he was very good with the press but since 2008 and the first batch of criticism as well as the parting of ways with his father he's been behaving increasingly oddly in the public eye.

Although I agree that a driver's personality won't have a big impact on brand image selecting the right driver is one of the few ways a company like Mercedes can manipulate its own image projection. Why else would you take the risk and hire a 40 year old who hadn't driven in F1 for a few years?

Also there are quite a few drivers out there who have been sensible enough to maintain a squeaky clean public image whilst proving fast and probably a lot cheaper than Lewis (the FI boys for a start).

[fandango]

I get the impression Mercedes are trying to change their image, to appeal to a younger, cooler crowd. Hamilton fits in well with this, especially if he wins. And he will win if the car can. There are very few drivers in that category at any one time in F1.
McLaren are a better team, but they also have a history of messing themselves up. What's the worst that can happen to Lewis if he switches teams? A season or two in the doldrums? They have get-out clauses to solve that sort of thing.

[wedge]

Unfortunately I don't think Lewis' brand fits in with Mercedes. Outside the car some of his behaviour has been erratic with the Twittergate episode merely being the latest and he has a blingy entourage. I don't think either of those characteristics fit with the Mercedes brand.

Nor does Hamilton 'suit' McLaren but then he can sell MP-4 12Cs to his entourage.

Keeping Lewis with Merc I see nothing wrong with it. AMG is now tied up with Daimler for Merc's halo cars.

[F1boat]

I hope that this is true, although I doubt it. Initially it will be good for a hater like me, because I doubt that Merc will be as competitive as the McLaren.
However in the end it will be good for Hamilton as well. I think that in a team which is not a great like McLaren he will learn the true cost of success and will become much more matured and intelligent driver, like Michael did in Ferrari (compared to his early days in Benetton). Also, one should not forget that Ross Brawn is a man who can give a lot to Hamilton. He gave a lot to Button - I remember a story in the blog of James Allen in which was described how Jenson became much more pedantic and professional under the wing of Brawn. I think that Hamilton can learn a lot from Brawn and in the end, when the Merc becomes strong OR he leaves to another top-team, like Ferrari and Red Bull, he will be ready to dominate the sport.

[kfzmeister]

It's now to 2015 I believe, but quite possible they could continue as a Mercedes customer after that.

Next year they pay for the engines for the first time.

[keysersoze]

Hamilton=>Mercedes just feels like another Villeneuve=>BAR, although Mercedes is not a new team, it has proven personnel, and Lewis seems better able to elevate a team than JV.

[kfzmeister]

... it will be good for Hamilton as well. I think that in a team which is not a great like McLaren he will learn the true cost of success and will become much more matured and intelligent driver, like Michael did in Ferrari (compared to his early days in Benetton). Also, one should not forget that Ross Brawn is a man who can give a lot to Hamilton. He gave a lot to Button - I remember a story in the blog of James Allen in which was described how Jenson became much more pedantic and professional under the wing of Brawn. I think that Hamilton can learn a lot from Brawn and in the end, when the Merc becomes strong OR he leaves to another top-team, like Ferrari and Red Bull, he will be ready to dominate the sport.

The jury is still out on this one. We will anxiously watch how he does.

[kfzmeister]

Lewis seems better able to elevate a team than JV.

That's not saying much!

[truefan72]

I for one hope this is not true, and if anything might be a bargaining chip for either Mclaren, ferrari or RBR, heck at this point even Williams and Lotus are better options than Mercedes.

There is something fundamentally wrong with the mercedes F1 car design philosophy and imo they seem to have taken a step back.
Of course, this could change in the next year or two, and Ross brawn is still a genius, but unless hey hire new engineers and strategists, then they will continue to struggle in races.
Hamilton might be lured there with an astronomical salary, but I don't believe if he goes there, he will be able to change their fortunes around, unless the car gets better.

Then there is also the fickle nature of major works teams who can decided at the end of the season that they are closing up shop.

[keysersoze]

That's not saying much!

I'll grant you that.
;)

[Garry Walker]

Hamilton=>Mercedes just feels like another Villeneuve=>BAR, although Mercedes is not a new team, it has proven personnel, and Lewis seems better able to elevate a team than JV.

Driver cannot elevate a team, other than by his driving. This leadership thing is crap, nor do they have much effect on the development of the car. LH is a better driver than JV of course.

If LH goes to Mercedes, well, he is an idiot and proves himself to be firstly driven by money not by success. I would be very dissapointed in him. But him to Mercedes, Kimi to McLaren?

[driveace]

Well if stories are true and he does drive for Mercedes,we will then see how fast he can peddle a slow car,as Rosberg has looked poor this year,and if Brawn is such a good motivator ,as is suggested by some with Button,why has he struggled with Rosberg,who must be dying for wins or a competitive car ?

[F1boat]

Nico is not on the level of Lewis, simple as that. He is a good driver, but not a great one.

[tfp]

Well if stories are true and he does drive for Mercedes,we will then see how fast he can peddle a slow car,as Rosberg has looked poor this year,and if Brawn is such a good motivator ,as is suggested by some with Button,why has he struggled with Rosberg,who must be dying for wins or a competitive car ?

I was thinking that myself, but at least they have one win this year. I spent the whole of last year thinking Brawn would pull some crazy developments out of the hat at a minutes notice, and hopefuly add some entertainment to what I thought was a pretty boring and predictable season.

[Bagwan]

Did you see how fast Michael was in first practice , Lewis ?
Can you think of what it would be like to beat a seven time world champion in his own car ?

[longisland]

I would love to see Lewis taking up the challenge to turn Mercedes' fortune around. He is one of the very few drivers who has the ability to drive around the car. His performance compared to Button this season says it all. No doubt Schumacher has the same quality but he'd lost 0.3s of raw speed. Mercedes may just overcome the tire degradation issue next season so there's everything to play for. IMHO, if one really believes Lewis is more or as talented as Schumacher in his prime, he should be able to emulate Schumacher in his prime transforming an under performing big team into a championship winning team. As for his tweet, it's no different from the likes of Schumacher, Alonso & Senna. The only thing that matters is winning the WDC.

[prpr]

Ross Brawn quoted in Autosport.com, speaking of 2014 and the new engine rules:

"We [Mercedes] will probably have two customers, and those customers will be given parity with the engines that we use at the works team. So I don't think teams are going to have a worse engine because they are not a works team.

"But, inevitably, there is a closer involvement with how the engine is created and developed, so that is a fact."

Is this what he is selling to Lewis Hamilton?

[rabf1]

"If LH goes to Mercedes, well, he is an idiot and proves himself to be firstly driven by money not by success."

Would Mercedes really give him that much more money than McLaren? So it doesn't make sense to me that it is all about money. But it doesn't seem like it could be about a better chance to win either. What reason is there to believe that the Mercedes will be good next year? If MS had any inkling that the Mercedes might be a championship car next year I don't think he would retire. So the whole thing doesnt make much sense.

[kfzmeister]

"If LH goes to Mercedes, well, he is an idiot and proves himself to be firstly driven by money not by success."

Would Mercedes really give him that much more money than McLaren? So it doesn't make sense to me that it is all about money. But it doesn't seem like it could be about a better chance to win either. What reason is there to believe that the Mercedes will be good next year? If MS had any inkling that the Mercedes might be a championship car next year I don't think he would retire. So the whole thing doesnt make much sense.

Mercedes has the heads up on the new Turbo engine for 2014. Customer teams (McLaren) will not see them until April next year. Mercedes might offer him more freedom. Jenson's now saying publicly that Lewis has been working with them on the 2013 car all along and that it's not too cool if he were to just "check out" in December and jump ship to Mercedes.

[fandango]

"If LH goes to Mercedes, well, he is an idiot and proves himself to be firstly driven by money not by success."

Would Mercedes really give him that much more money than McLaren? So it doesn't make sense to me that it is all about money. But it doesn't seem like it could be about a better chance to win either. What reason is there to believe that the Mercedes will be good next year? If MS had any inkling that the Mercedes might be a championship car next year I don't think he would retire. So the whole thing doesnt make much sense.

The money factor is not about wanting to be paid more. It's about commitment. If Ham goes to Mercedes, they need to convince him first that they are serious about building success around him. They have to give him all the money he wants in order to show that he's an investment that can't fail for them. They don't have the record that McLaren have, so that's the only way they could convince him that they're really serious.

If Ham doesn't sign for Merc, they're f***ed, basically. MSC is on the way out sooner rather than later, and Rosberg just isn't quite as good as the top line of F1 drivers. Merc must also be trying to lure Kimi, although he's possibly not as good at developing team spirit as Ham.

[wedge]

I know its the peak of silly season, nothing is signed or official but put the weekend quotes in context and Lewis's denial in front of the cameras looked rather pathetic.



Driver cannot elevate a team, other than by his driving. This leadership thing is crap, nor do they have much effect on the development of the car.

I was going to bring up the Team Schumi thing but just remembered Prost's stint at Ferrari.

[MJW]

My interpretation of post race bodylanguage and comments from Lewis and Martin Whittaker my guess its a done deal and Lewis has made his decision to leave for Mercedes.

[steveaki13]

I have to say I agree. He had no wish to overly celebrate.

He looked respectful but resigned, so I think we are looking at a move soon.

Also Whitmarsh when asked on Sky, "Thats a driver you must want to keep" (referring to Lewis after a great drive). To which Whitmarsh responded "Well he did a great job".

At no point did he look like answering or giving an answer to that question.

So maybe it points to a parting of the ways. Could be wrong of course jjust thought it was interesting to notice.

[A FONDO]

McLaren must keep Hamilton at any cost, otherwise they are doomed in mediocrity.

[Garry Walker]

I was going to bring up the Team Schumi thing but just remembered Prost's stint at Ferrari.
I am a Schumacher fan, but besides great driving there was nothing he could do to help the team become as good as it became. That was due to Todt and Byrne. Schumacher did the perfect job in his chosen field - he drove exceptionally. But if Todt and Byrne had been idiots and MS would have had to deal with a slow car, he never would have won.


McLaren must keep Hamilton at any cost, otherwise they are doomed in mediocrity.

McLaren won before Hamilton, they will win after him too.

[wedge]

I am a Schumacher fan, but besides great driving there was nothing he could do to help the team become as good as it became. That was due to Todt and Byrne. Schumacher did the perfect job in his chosen field - he drove exceptionally. But if Todt and Byrne had been idiots and MS would have had to deal with a slow car, he never would have won.

Moaning behind closed doors, wanting special treatment, creating intra-team love-in; call it what you will, perhaps and for some reason it has been mistaken for leadership.

[Rollo]

Edit, edit, edit, edit:

Retro Edited for 1985:

McLaren must keep Lauda at any cost, otherwise they are doomed in mediocrity.

Retro Edited for 1989:

McLaren must keep Prost at any cost, otherwise they are doomed in mediocrity.

Retro Edited for 1993:

McLaren must keep Senna at any cost, otherwise they are doomed in mediocrity.

Retro Edited for 2001:

McLaren must keep Häkkinen at any cost, otherwise they are doomed in mediocrity.

Retro Edited for 2006:

McLaren must keep Räikkönen at any cost, otherwise they are doomed in mediocrity.

Retro Edited for 2007:

McLaren must keep Alonso at any cost, otherwise they are doomed in mediocrity.

:D

[kfzmeister]

McLaren must keep Hamilton at any cost, otherwise they are doomed in mediocrity.

You don't think that they could win a Championship with Button?

[The Black Knight]

You don't think that they could win a Championship with Button?

They could if they give him a car which is set up exactly this his liking or else has pace about a second clear of the field as with Brawn but with Hamilton he has the ability to win a championship without necessarily the best car. Button will certainly never do that for you.

[The Black Knight]

'Morose and monosyllabic' Lewis Hamilton fuels speculation | Italian Grand Prix | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN F1 (http://en.espnf1.com/italy/motorsport/story/88535.html)

I pretty much agree with most of it. I don't know what is going on with Hamilton. His post race demeanor depicted to me someone who was sad and the only reason I could imagine him being sad was if he were going to leave the team.

On the other hand when speaking to Natalie on Sky Sports he said that he was sad for the team that they didn't get a one two with Jenson but that there is always next year. To me, this hint at a McLaren stay. Anyway, who knows, it could go either way but with the car McLaren have currently provided him with and the form that Hamilton has been in all year, it's hard to see a reason for either to part ways.

The one advantage he has about going to Mercedes is possibly with the rule changes coming in and the fact that they are a works team and as Ross Brawn recently said that might be an advantage with the new Engines. Hamilton might also be tired of the fact that McLaren have not really given him a consistently good car since 2008, so it's a matter of whether he thinks they will be capable of that in the future I guess.

Interesting times for the young man from Stevenage.

[ArrowsFA1]

Hamilton's uncertain future hangs like a bad smell over McLaren suggesting talks are going wrong
I do love these kind of comments from the media. It's only "uncertain" because the decision has 1) not been made or 2) not been announced and they can't find out which, let alone what the decision is. Their response is to suggest that this is all hanging "like a bad smell" over the team and speculate that "talks are going wrong". They have to write something. We'll all know what the decision is soon enough.

As for Hamilton's "body language" after the race, it's not the first time he's appeared somewhat muted after a win.

[wedge]

As for Hamilton's "body language" after the race, it's not the first time he's appeared somewhat muted after a win.

In Turkey 2010 it was about team orders ("save fuel").

Yesterday it looked he was about to head off immediately to get weighed, turned round and saw Perez giving love to the Sauber mechanics and thought he best do the same for damage limitation/PR purposes.

[Malbec]

Hamilton might also be tired of the fact that McLaren have not really given him a consistently good car since 2008, so it's a matter of whether he thinks they will be capable of that in the future I guess.

Since Lewis came into F1 with McLaren in 2007 they've given him a car thats kept him in the title fight till the last race 3 years out of 5. If he carries on going the way he is this season that might be 4 years out of 6. If he thinks he's hard done by then he really needs a reality check.

I see shades of Jenson's attempted move from BAR to Williams here, Mercedes are not as controlling of personal sponsorship deals as McLaren are so Lewis' management may feel substantial personal endorsement contracts could far outweigh any drop in income from switching to Brackley and raise their profits.

Alternatively he may be being poorly advised by his non-F1 management negotiating with Mercedes in order to raise the stakes with his ongoing negotiations with McLaren.

[Ranger]

'Morose and monosyllabic' Lewis Hamilton fuels speculation | Italian Grand Prix | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN F1 (http://en.espnf1.com/italy/motorsport/story/88535.html)

Hamilton might also be tired of the fact that McLaren have not really given him a consistently good car since 2008

In which case I'm sure he'd much rather enjoy being an occasional podium contender at Mercedes...

[Bagwan]

German rag Der Spiegel quotes an un-named McLaren employee as saying :
"We are extremely upset with him . He should go ."

The way in which Lewis ran this race seemed entirely focussed and mechanical , which fits with the image of the German Merc team .
Perhaps , with the shoe beside him , and Ross behind , he could be groomed still to not need "handlers" .

I'd really like to see this . I think it would be really good for him to get away from his current seat .

[ArrowsFA1]

In the absence of anything concrete you've gotta love the speculation & body language experts :p

[DexDexter]

IMO moving to Mercedes wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea for Hamilton. He's been at Mclaren for quite a long time and maybe change is good, who knows? Mercedes will be a factor in the coming years with the technical team they have.

[Bagwan]

I bet mclaren are happy with that employee and confused as to why he went to a German publication lol. I'm pretty sure a journalist with a good imagination and a love for a German company has made that up.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk 2

Is Der Spiegel a reputable source ?
I don't know , but I was only reporting what I read .

But , as on the forum here there are differing opinions on how serious an affair this "twitter-gate" is , is it so hard to imagine that there could be a few folks at McLaren who have no time for Lewis ?

Personally , I still think they may have set him up , to see just how loyal Lewis would act .

[donKey jote]

Is Der Spiegel a reputable source ?
.
For F1 I'm not sure, but for anything else it's pretty much the benchmark here :)

[kfzmeister]

In the absence of anything concrete you've gotta love the speculation & body language experts :p

I agree! http://www.auto123.com/ArtImages/147439/f1-mclaren-hamilton-victory-inline.jpg

[truefan72]

I think he will resign with Mclaren, I believe the stalemate is over a few minor nuances in the contract
and One major factor...money
Both he and Ron Dennis are stubborn.
Hamilton might be looking for Alonso neighborhood money (which is probably unreasonable)
Ron Dennis is probably disrespecting Hamilton Value and giving him the "be lucky you are working for us" spiel (which is probably unreasonable)

The truth is that they both need each other. Mclaren more so than Hamilton

[truefan72]

From autosport:McLaren believes Italian GP win will make Lewis Hamilton decide to stay on in 2013 - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102430)
"Whitmarsh also said that the outfit was not seriously considering options elsewhere in case Hamilton leaves, following talk that highly rated Williams test driver Valtteri Bottas has emerged as a leading candidate."

What is it with Ron Dennis and drivers from Finland?
If Hamilton does leave, then the most obvious and best driver out there would be sutil

[DexDexter]

From autosport:McLaren believes Italian GP win will make Lewis Hamilton decide to stay on in 2013 - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102430)
"Whitmarsh also said that the outfit was not seriously considering options elsewhere in case Hamilton leaves, following talk that highly rated Williams test driver Valtteri Bottas has emerged as a leading candidate."

What is it with Ron Dennis and drivers from Finland?
If Hamilton does leave, then the most obvious and best driver out there would be sutil

Ron had a great relationship with Mika, he was more like a friend to him, maybe that's were it comes from. Also Keke, Mika, Kimi and Heikki, were all good, non-political employees for Mclaren.

[donKey jote]

I think they are a great tabloid source.

If you really mean that, you couldn't be more wrong :)

[Bagwan]

With reports they had dealings with former Nazi's and are nicknamed the German equivalent of the 'Daily Mirror', I think they are a great tabloid source.


As with any place of work, I'm sure there are people at McLaren who don't like Lewis. I'm sure there are people who don't like Jenson either. Its the name of the game. I certainly don't think its professional or wise on someones career path to talk such negativity to a tabloid magazine however. It begs the question who is the nicer person?

Ok , then , we can discount the source .

Tabloids , though , are usually found to be reading a lot more into a story , with stretching speculation , rather than lying outright ; "spin" , in a word .

This was a rather unambiguous statement : "He should go." .

[Bagwan]

If you really mean that, you couldn't be more wrong :)

I'm confused , donKey .

Are they reputable or not ?

[donKey jote]

Spiegel is reputable, but it looks like you can discount this source :up:
Formel 1: McLaren-Pilot Lewis Hamilton zwischen Genie und Wahnsinn - SPIEGEL ONLINE (http://www.spiegel.de/sport/formel1/formel-1-mclaren-pilot-lewis-hamilton-zwischen-genie-und-wahnsinn-a-854807.html)

... it was written by "Ralf Bach berichtet bereits viele Jahre über die Formel 1, vorwiegend für "Sport Bild". Seit der vergangenen Saison ist er auch für SPIEGEL ONLINE tätig und analysiert die Ereignisse in der wichtigsten Motorsportserie der Welt."

Looks like the writer hasn't quite got used to working for a serious magazine after reporting on F1 for many years mainly for "Sport Bild"...
Yes, that's tabloid Bild as in Daily Mirror :)

[F1boat]

The truth is that they both need each other. Mclaren more so than Hamilton

I am not sure about that... McLaren are one of the two strongest teams in the history of F1 and I think that for them it will be easier to win with Jenson than for Lewis to win with Mercedes GP.

[AndyL]

Just out of interest... does anyone know how long Raikonnen's contract with Lotus is?

[AndyL]

James Allen seems to think the deal is more or less done:
Hamilton set to move to MercedesJames Allen on F1 (http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/09/hamilton-set-to-move-to-mercedes/)

and mentions Perez as a possible replacement, which he thinks would please Vodafone. That I would like to see. Almost as much as I'd like to see Kimi back at McLaren :)

[ShiftingGears]

Just out of interest... does anyone know how long Raikonnen's contract with Lotus is?

Lopez told Finland’s Turun Sanomat that Raikkonen is staying in 2013.

“At least in the short term, Kimi is with us,” he said.

“We have an agreement that is based on performance, and it has been fulfilled,” he revealed.

Raikkonen locked into 2013 contract now (http://www.inautonews.com/raikkonen-locked-into-2013-contract-now-lopez#.UE8TSPVXqyQ)

He doesn't appear to say anything's been signed, but it suggests Kimi stays at Lotus next year.

[kfzmeister]

With reports they had dealings with former Nazi's and are nicknamed the German equivalent of the 'Daily Mirror', I think they are a great tabloid source.


As a German, i strongly disagree here. Spiegel is very reputable, as has already been mentioned by the other German on this board :D ! As we would say, "This news is konkret"!

...and now, looks like J. Allen has joined...

[ArrowsFA1]

James Allen seems to think the deal is more or less done...
But again has nothing concrete to report: "all the hallmarks", "strong indications", "looks like", "suggested deal", "some signs", "there have been suggestions".

[kfzmeister]

But again has nothing concrete to report: "all the hallmarks", "strong indications", "looks like", "suggested deal", "some signs", "there have been suggestions".

...matter of time now.

[Bagwan]

Lewis has been a Merc man for all his career .
It seems pretty seamless to me .

Maybe this really was the last straw for some at McLaren .

Lewis is set to try to build on what Ross has been putting together .
If successful , grabbing Lewis would surely be a sign that Mercedes is all in and fully committing to the series .

Given that Bernie feels like stirring , I wouldn't be surprised if this was a part of negotiations regarding the portioning of the end pot of money .

I really hope this happens .
And , I hope Michael stays , to mentor the lad .

[AndyL]

But again has nothing concrete to report: "all the hallmarks", "strong indications", "looks like", "suggested deal", "some signs", "there have been suggestions".

Yes quite so. But James Allen is usually a pretty trustworthy source, a lot less inclined towards unfounded speculation than some others.

[ShiftingGears]

But again has nothing concrete to report: "all the hallmarks", "strong indications", "looks like", "suggested deal", "some signs", "there have been suggestions".

Hence why it is a rumour. If Allen's reporting it, I think quite a few would agree that it gives the story more credibility.

[AndyL]

Who'd have thought 3 years ago that it would be Button seeing off Hamilton from McLaren.

[ArrowsFA1]

Yes quite so. But James Allen is usually a pretty trustworthy source, a lot less inclined towards unfounded speculation than some others.


Hence why it is a rumour. If Allen's reporting it, I think quite a few would agree that it gives the story more credibility.
Both very true, but equally James Allen likes website hits and Hamilton's contract is the big story at the moment :D

Having said that I'm certainly not saying the move is not going to happen, just that I'll wait until we get confirmation one way or another :)

[driveace]

As said I cannot see Button winning another drivers championship at McLaren ,he is happy if he is off the front and leading,but never is he a strong challenger like |Vettel can be .If Hamilton does go to Mercedes ,then they need a stong determined racer with big balls at McLaren ,as there is not much wrong with the car or the team.And as said I think Hamilton needs McLaren more than they need him .

[Garry Walker]

For F1 I'm not sure, but for anything else it's pretty much the benchmark here :)
Yeah, henners is mistaken. Der Spiegel is very respected. I am not sure on their level in F1 coverage though.


I think he will resign with Mclaren, I believe the stalemate is over a few minor nuances in the contract
and One major factor...money
Both he and Ron Dennis are stubborn.
Hamilton might be looking for Alonso neighborhood money (which is probably unreasonable)
Ron Dennis is probably disrespecting Hamilton Value and giving him the "be lucky you are working for us" spiel (which is probably unreasonable)

The truth is that they both need each other. Mclaren more so than Hamilton
McLaren can win without Hamilton easily, as Button has shown.
Can Hamilton win in a much slower car? No way, he is not that good.


From autosport:McLaren believes Italian GP win will make Lewis Hamilton decide to stay on in 2013 - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102430)
"Whitmarsh also said that the outfit was not seriously considering options elsewhere in case Hamilton leaves, following talk that highly rated Williams test driver Valtteri Bottas has emerged as a leading candidate."

What is it with Ron Dennis and drivers from Finland?
If Hamilton does leave, then the most obvious and best driver out there would be sutil

The Slasher? No F1 team will touch him, not a top level one anyway.
Kimi is a much much better choice anyway. I'd even rather hire the current Massa than The Slasher

[Bagwan]

The Slasher? No F1 team will touch him, not a top level one anyway.
Kimi is a much much better choice anyway. I'd even rather hire the current Massa than The Slasher

The one thing the slasher does represent , is the best driver to destabilize the leaving Hamilton , should he rejoin the grid as Lewis meets his new team .
It would twist his head into a pretzel to have former friend Adrian ahead of him on the grid in his former seat .

If they think he is worth the trouble to keep , they'd want to screw him up as best as possible if he leaves .

[Malbec]

The one thing the slasher does represent , is the best driver to destabilize the leaving Hamilton , should he rejoin the grid as Lewis meets his new team .
It would twist his head into a pretzel to have former friend Adrian ahead of him on the grid in his former seat .

If they think he is worth the trouble to keep , they'd want to screw him up as best as possible if he leaves .

The best way for McLaren to screw Lewis over is to carry on building fine cars that put Mercedes in their place year after year. I think they'd be doing their best on that front regardless of whether Lewis stayed or went...

I think McLaren will be raiding FI's CURRENT drivers to replace Lewis, probably the Scottish one.

[donKey jote]

Well it's official:
Schu to continue at Merc, so Ham will stay at McLaren .

Marca (http://www.marca.com/2012/09/11/motor/formula1/1347352880.html) say so so it must be true :andrea:

On the other hand: Marca are usually wrong :erm: :arrows: :p

[donKey jote]

But again has nothing konkret to report:

:erm: :andrea:

[Bagwan]

Well it's official:
Schu to continue at Merc, so Ham will stay at McLaren .

Marca (http://www.marca.com/2012/09/11/motor/formula1/1347352880.html) say so so it must be true :andrea:

On the other hand: Marca are usually wrong :erm: :arrows: :p

So , what you're saying , then , is that Nico is leaving . I see .

[Hawkmoon]

I'll be a little surprised if Hamilton leaves McLaren but I won't be shocked. I get the feeling that Hamilton might be needing a change of scenery. A change is as good as a holiday after all.

Hamilton burst onto the scene in 2007 and contended for the championship as a rookie. He wins the title in year two and the talk is all about how many titles he'll win and whether he'll break Schumi's records. It's all downhill after that. From 2009 Hamilton has finished 5th, 4th and 5th in the WDC. He's currently 2nd in the WDC but I'm sure these aren't the results he was expecting after his 2008 title. Over the same period Vettel has won two WDCs, finished 2nd in the other and pretty much supplanted Hamilton as F1's next Prost/Senna/Fangio in the making. I don't think Hamilton is all that happy about that.

I guess the question is how much Hamilton blames himself for his relative lack of results and how much he blames McLaren. The colour of his 2013 overalls will answer that question.

[F1boat]

Both very true, but equally James Allen likes website hits and Hamilton's contract is the big story at the moment :D

Having said that I'm certainly not saying the move is not going to happen, just that I'll wait until we get confirmation one way or another :)

I know think that the deal might happen after all. When James wrote that Michael will return I didn't believe, but he was right. Maybe he has some connections in Mercedes GP.

[The Black Knight]

I'll be a little surprised if Hamilton leaves McLaren but I won't be shocked. I get the feeling that Hamilton might be needing a change of scenery. A change is as good as a holiday after all.

Hamilton burst onto the scene in 2007 and contended for the championship as a rookie. He wins the title in year two and the talk is all about how many titles he'll win and whether he'll break Schumi's records. It's all downhill after that. From 2009 Hamilton has finished 5th, 4th and 5th in the WDC. He's currently 2nd in the WDC but I'm sure these aren't the results he was expecting after his 2008 title. Over the same period Vettel has won two WDCs, finished 2nd in the other and pretty much supplanted Hamilton as F1's next Prost/Senna/Fangio in the making. I don't think Hamilton is all that happy about that.

I guess the question is how much Hamilton blames himself for his relative lack of results and how much he blames McLaren. The colour of his 2013 overalls will answer that question.

Good post and I think it pretty much sums up Hamilton's feelings. I still personally think he is the quickest driver on the grid on any given day but being the quickest doesn't necessarily make you the best. McLaren's car in 2009 was a dog but he still won two races. In 2010 the car was much better and I think he could have actually won the title there were it not for one or two driver errors such as his one at Monza. Nonetheless I think still being in contention for the championship at the final race was nothing less than impressive. In 2011 the title was never realistic because Vettel had a vastly superior car for most of the season and Lewis also has himself to blame for going off the rails.

2012 has seen a return to form from Lewis but it's only now that McLaren are providing him with the car he needs and realistically he should be leading the championship healthily at this stage were it not for 3 DNF's which were pretty much out of his control and some McLaren pit stop blunders. I think both him and Alonso are the most likely contenders for this years championship and after the way they have both driven this year, you could hardly say that neither deserves it.

[AndyL]

Good post and I think it pretty much sums up Hamilton's feelings. I still personally think he is the quickest driver on the grid on any given day but being the quickest doesn't necessarily make you the best. McLaren's car in 2009 was a dog but he still won two races. In 2010 the car was much better and I think he could have actually won the title there were it not for one or two driver errors such as his one at Monza. Nonetheless I think still being in contention for the championship at the final race was nothing less than impressive. In 2011 the title was never realistic because Vettel had a vastly superior car for most of the season and Lewis also has himself to blame for going off the rails.

At the time it seemed that 2009 was a "coming of age" year for Hamilton didn't it. He kept his head down, worked hard in a mediocre car and pulled out some great results. But when 2011 came around it was as if he'd spent 2010 unlearning everything he'd learned in 2009.

[The Black Knight]

At the time it seemed that 2009 was a "coming of age" year for Hamilton didn't it. He kept his head down, worked hard in a mediocre car and pulled out some great results. But when 2011 came around it was as if he'd spent 2010 unlearning everything he'd learned in 2009.

Aye, I don't know what was going on in his personal life around 2010 but it certainly seemed as if his troubles began around mid way through 2010 and probably cost him the title that year. He has bounced back this year though and is driving supremely well as it witnessed by the fact that Jenson is nowhere near him.

[wedge]

Aye, I don't know what was going on in his personal life around 2010 but it certainly seemed as if his troubles began around mid way through 2010 and probably cost him the title that year. He has bounced back this year though and is driving supremely well as it witnessed by the fact that Jenson is nowhere near him.

I don't think the rift with Papa Hamilton was of great significance because he drove consistently to a very high standard by maximising the car.

For me he was the 2010 driver of the year.

Unfortunately McLaren let him down. Last third of that year McLaren lost on the development war. Good example would be Brazil when Hamilton went backwards due to lack of performance.

[Malbec]

Aye, I don't know what was going on in his personal life around 2010 but it certainly seemed as if his troubles began around mid way through 2010 and probably cost him the title that year. He has bounced back this year though and is driving supremely well as it witnessed by the fact that Jenson is nowhere near him.

To his credit I think Lewis has kept his personal life from affecting his on-track performance too much. I thought his performance last year dropped off a bit but one could put that down to difficulty getting to grips with the new tyres and having a magnetic attraction to Massa.

Lewis' behaviour off track reminds me of the kids of Tiger mums, highly driven Chinese parents who push their kids from a very young age and maintain a tight grip on every aspect of their life to ensure they do not do anything stupid that could jeopardise their future. Often these kids, while excelling in whatever professional field they are in, rebel strongly against their parents if/when they get independence, go wild and also have a low self esteem.

If drivers were automatons who only come alive at the racetrack Lewis' abilities are such that I'm sure any team would kill to get him but the problem is the paraphenalia that comes with him, the erratic activities like storming into the RBR motorhome for 'talks' or tweeting telemetry data, having a non-F1 celebrity management and a posse following him around everywhere. He has difficulties with the press which are frankly of his own making.

Most of his erratic behaviour started when Lewis got rid of his own Tiger mum Antony. I wonder if he'd actually have fared better if Ron Dennis had taken the patriarchal role he's played with many other McLaren drivers and shown Lewis hard limits for his behaviour.

[Garry Walker]

To his credit I think Lewis has kept his personal life from affecting his on-track performance too much. I thought his performance last year dropped off a bit but one could put that down to difficulty getting to grips with the new tyres and having a magnetic attraction to Massa.

Lewis' behaviour off track reminds me of the kids of Tiger mums, highly driven Chinese parents who push their kids from a very young age and maintain a tight grip on every aspect of their life to ensure they do not do anything stupid that could jeopardise their future. Often these kids, while excelling in whatever professional field they are in, rebel strongly against their parents if/when they get independence, go wild and also have a low self esteem.

If drivers were automatons who only come alive at the racetrack Lewis' abilities are such that I'm sure any team would kill to get him but the problem is the paraphenalia that comes with him, the erratic activities like storming into the RBR motorhome for 'talks' or tweeting telemetry data, having a non-F1 celebrity management and a posse following him around everywhere. He has difficulties with the press which are frankly of his own making.

Most of his erratic behaviour started when Lewis got rid of his own Tiger mum Antony. I wonder if he'd actually have fared better if Ron Dennis had taken the patriarchal role he's played with many other McLaren drivers and shown Lewis hard limits for his behaviour.

I think is a very good post. Hamilton is obviously a super talent, but he just as obvious is the fact that he is immature and very unprofessional at times. It would be a shame if his immaturity stopped him from reaching his full potential.

[F1boat]

Lewis' behaviour off track reminds me of the kids of Tiger mums, highly driven Chinese parents who push their kids from a very young age and maintain a tight grip on every aspect of their life to ensure they do not do anything stupid that could jeopardise their future. Often these kids, while excelling in whatever professional field they are in, rebel strongly against their parents if/when they get independence, go wild and also have a low self esteem.


Great comparison!

[F1boat]

To be honest, I think that you idealize him a little bit... ;) Probably most of the drivers in F1 are there to win, although some of them have different approach about how this can be done. For example, Jenson and Fernando seem calmer and more collected, ready to play the long game to think about maximising their results in the best POSSIBLE way. Seb and Lewis are more impatient... but are they better drivers? Frankly, I don't know...

[wedge]

Lewis' behaviour off track reminds me of the kids of Tiger mums, highly driven Chinese parents who push their kids from a very young age and maintain a tight grip on every aspect of their life to ensure they do not do anything stupid that could jeopardise their future. Often these kids, while excelling in whatever professional field they are in, rebel strongly against their parents if/when they get independence, go wild and also have a low self esteem.

I hate the term 'Tiger Mum'.

Media hyperbole thanks to Amy Chua.

My own mother was a Dragon Lady and I managed to turn out fine after uni - like most students do.

It's possible for people to be corrupted by the lifestyle afforded/rewarded to them.


I do think Hamilton is showing great maturity over this whole story of him switching teams.

Is there a right way to handle such matters?

Mansell threatened to retire; Prost gave away his trophy to the Tifosi at the 1989 Italian GP; Senna had a crafty way of negotiating/playing musical chairs eg. offering his services free to Williams yet being $1m by Phillip Morris; Button wanting to go back to Williams.

Top drivers want to be in the best cars, complete backing of the team as well as being paid handsomely - after all their career's are finite compared to the 'real world'/working man on the street.

[truefan72]

seem like mclaren are offering a pay cut and a continued control over his public image
from Eurosport: McLaren (http://tinyurl.com/8vjozh4)

If this is truly the case, then Hamilton should go to Mercedes and do his thing there.
This is a poor effort from Mclaren, seems they are letting him down both on and off the track

I'll have to retire my Vodafone Mclaren gear now...sigh :(

[Malbec]

I hate the term 'Tiger Mum'.

Media hyperbole thanks to Amy Chua.

Definitely not just media hyperbole though Amy Chua certainly knew how to promote herself and her book.

Grew up with enough kids of aforementioned Tiger Mums around, sure many seemed outwardly normal after but the number who were seriously maladjusted socially and had issues outside of work was very high, especially with interpersonal relationships.

Agree with the rest of your post though, what drivers are looking for isn't just money nor is it just about performance. Its a combination of many different factors the majority of which we aren't privy to. Drivers can be pretty poorly advised and make serious errors of judgment too, Villeneuve going to BAR managed by Pollock is the most glaring example but Button trying to switch to Williams is another.

[fandango]

McLaren are a great team, but they do have a history of shooting themselves in the foot. There have been quite a few years when they've used all their extensive resources to produce a dud of a car. People talk about how great they are at developing the car, but often it's because they've produced a dud and are catching up.

I think Hamilton is a right eejit. And I think he is idolised by the GB F1 press. However, he's an amazing driver, and I love watching him drive to the best of his abilities. If he leaves McLaren now it'll be good for F1. And they'll take him back if it doesn't work out. But what he needs from Mercedes is a HUGE wad of cash, to show that they are putting their money where their mouth is. That's all that money means, and I sincerely hope, for the good of F1, it doesn't go to his head.

[The Black Knight]

I know that initially in this thread I said that I figured a move to Mercedes would be a bad thing for Lewis but, the more I think of it, the better an idea it sounds to me. We all know the incredible talent that he is, but I really think that under the tutilage of Ross Brawn he would become a far more rounded driver. I think we can all agree that Schumacher would not have become the force he once was were it not for Ross Brawn. I think that working with Ross would only be a good thing. Ross along with Adrian Newey remain the two great Engineers of F1. I have always felt Hamilton should be working with one or the other and since RBR appear to not want anything other than homegrown drivers from Torro Rosso, his move to Mercedes can be the only option there.

Veering back, there are other considerations for Hamilton here, such as his greater commerical freedom, he'll probably have less commitments. It always appears to me as though McLaren drivers are overworked with PR commitments. Not alone that but it appears McLaren have only offered Hamilton 2/3 the value of his previous contract. That is an insult to a driver of his calibre and, although I'm sure he loves the team, his image would probably hurt should he accept an offer like this. Mercedes, on the other hand, are likely to be more of a force in 2014 and apparently are willing to offer him 60 million over 3 years.

I think that should Hamilton move to Mercedes then in all likelihood Schumacher will retire. It could very well be that Schumacher's retirement hinges on this and he may stay another year should Hamilton continue on at McLaren. Mercedes are putting together a strong technical team and nobody knows better how to do this than Ross Brawn. It may be that, come 2014, they will be the strongest team on the grid. We saw with Brawn in 2009 that things change really quickly in F1. If the new Mercedes upgrades work well in Singapore, that may very well prove the catalyst for Hamilton to finally put pen to paper. If McLaren really want him to stay they gotta show they want him and they need to give him more commercial freedom, which seems unlikely to happen.

All in all, when you look at it, I can't see why he would stay at McLaren. The more I think of it, the better idea it sounds to me and Hamilton seems like someone that may need a fresh start.

[truefan72]

I know that initially in this thread I said that I figured a move to Mercedes would be a bad thing for Lewis but, the more I think of it, the better an idea it sounds to me. We all know the incredible talent that he is, but I really think that under the tutilage of Ross Brawn he would become a far more rounded driver. I think we can all agree that Schumacher would not have become the force he once was were it not for Ross Brawn. I think that working with Ross would only be a good thing. Ross along with Adrian Newey remain the two great Engineers of F1. I have always felt Hamilton should be working with one or the other and since RBR appear to not want anything other than homegrown drivers from Torro Rosso, his move to Mercedes can be the only option there.

Veering back, there are other considerations for Hamilton here, such as his greater commerical freedom, he'll probably have less commitments. It always appears to me as though McLaren drivers are overworked with PR commitments. Not alone that but it appears McLaren have only offered Hamilton 2/3 the value of his previous contract. That is an insult to a driver of his calibre and, although I'm sure he loves the team, his image would probably hurt should he accept an offer like this. Mercedes, on the other hand, are likely to be more of a force in 2014 and apparently are willing to offer him 60 million over 3 years.

I think that should Hamilton move to Mercedes then in all likelihood Schumacher will retire. It could very well be that Schumacher's retirement hinges on this and he may stay another year should Hamilton continue on at McLaren. Mercedes are putting together a strong technical team and nobody knows better how to do this than Ross Brawn. It may be that, come 2014, they will be the strongest team on the grid. We saw with Brawn in 2009 that things change really quickly in F1. If the new Mercedes upgrades work well in Singapore, that may very well prove the catalyst for Hamilton to finally put pen to paper. If McLaren really want him to stay they gotta show they want him and they need to give him more commercial freedom, which seems unlikely to happen.

All in all, when you look at it, I can't see why he would stay at McLaren. The more I think of it, the better idea it sounds to me and Hamilton seems like someone that may need a fresh start.

Well said, I could not agree more :up:

[F1boat]

I also agree... if he goes to Mercedes GP I think he will become a much better sportsman and far stronger mentally... I might even become a fan.
About Michael, I like that rumour that he will drive for a final year in Ferrari. Although he may help Lewis, if he stays in Mercedes.

[Malbec]

I know that initially in this thread I said that I figured a move to Mercedes would be a bad thing for Lewis but, the more I think of it, the better an idea it sounds to me. We all know the incredible talent that he is, but I really think that under the tutilage of Ross Brawn he would become a far more rounded driver. I think we can all agree that Schumacher would not have become the force he once was were it not for Ross Brawn. I think that working with Ross would only be a good thing. Ross along with Adrian Newey remain the two great Engineers of F1. I have always felt Hamilton should be working with one or the other and since RBR appear to not want anything other than homegrown drivers from Torro Rosso, his move to Mercedes can be the only option there.

Ross Brawn and Adrian Newey do not tutor drivers. One is a technical director and no longer engineers, the other is a chief designer.

Also while you say Ross will help Lewis become a more rounded driver I don't see Lewis' driving as his problem. Its his strength. He needs to become a more rounded PERSON and I don't see how a laid back relaxed guy like Brawn can do that. He needs his father back around him or a substitute tough father figure to give him behavioural limits.


Veering back, there are other considerations for Hamilton here, such as his greater commerical freedom, he'll probably have less commitments.

More likely he'll have the same or more commitments, the difference with McLaren would be that this time they would be personal endorsements and he/his management would get a greater cut.


it appears McLaren have only offered Hamilton 2/3 the value of his previous contract. That is an insult to a driver of his calibre and, although I'm sure he loves the team, his image would probably hurt should he accept an offer like this. Mercedes, on the other hand, are likely to be more of a force in 2014 and apparently are willing to offer him 60 million over 3 years.

A pay cut isn't insulting if you look at the bigger picture. Lewis last signed his contract with McLaren during the boom years when driver salaries were considerably higher. We're now in the middle of a big recession and no driver earns anywhere near as much as they did or would have been worth pre-credit crunch. No driver is paid $25 million a year any more like Schumi and Kimi were in their heyday. Vettel and Button, one a double and the other a one time WDC winner are both on much smaller salaries than Lewis. It isn't an insult to Lewis to cut his pay, it reflects the market. He's a fast single WDC winner and as such his current salary is way in excess of that of his immediate peers such as Button.

Your understanding of the Mercedes offer is different to mine, I heard they offered him a smaller salary than McLaren but greater freedom to pursue his own sponsorship which would conversely allow him to increase his income.


I think that should Hamilton move to Mercedes then in all likelihood Schumacher will retire. It could very well be that Schumacher's retirement hinges on this and he may stay another year should Hamilton continue on at McLaren. Mercedes are putting together a strong technical team and nobody knows better how to do this than Ross Brawn. It may be that, come 2014, they will be the strongest team on the grid. We saw with Brawn in 2009 that things change really quickly in F1. If the new Mercedes upgrades work well in Singapore, that may very well prove the catalyst for Hamilton to finally put pen to paper. If McLaren really want him to stay they gotta show they want him and they need to give him more commercial freedom, which seems unlikely to happen.

All in all, when you look at it, I can't see why he would stay at McLaren. The more I think of it, the better idea it sounds to me and Hamilton seems like someone that may need a fresh start.

So he's staking his future on the prospect of Brackley doing something they've never been capable of doing before and becoming consistent championship challengers year on year? They couldn't do that with massive financial and resource input from Honda and they don't really show signs of managing it with the much reduced input from Mercedes.

[wedge]

Grew up with enough kids of aforementioned Tiger Mums around, sure many seemed outwardly normal after but the number who were seriously maladjusted socially and had issues outside of work was very high, especially with interpersonal relationships.

Judging by the Sid Watkins thread you're a medical/related expert.

I have lived with an alcoholic (Caucasian) but I've got friends and family with similar upbringing, socialised with and most have 'normal' lives with relationships and bringing up their own families.

Lewis reminds me more of cases of famous Brazillian footballers like Ronaldo, Ronaldinho and Adriano who took their wealthy lifestyle for granted - in the case of the latter Adriano had much deeper issues. He played football to please his father but struggled to cope after his death and admitted he felt lost in the world.

Clues from journalists suggests this is the case (not that I'm saying he is the next Adriano). Mark Hughe's awfully written article in this week's Autosport, and in a previous issue noted that Vettel and Alonso were not concerned with the BS of fame; a McLaren insider told James Allen "that's where his head's at" regarding Hamilton's entourage at last year's Canadian GP.

[The Black Knight]

Ross Brawn and Adrian Newey do not tutor drivers. One is a technical director and no longer engineers, the other is a chief designer.

Also while you say Ross will help Lewis become a more rounded driver I don't see Lewis' driving as his problem. Its his strength. He needs to become a more rounded PERSON and I don't see how a laid back relaxed guy like Brawn can do that. He needs his father back around him or a substitute tough father figure to give him behavioural limits.

Since you're being picky, tutelage was probably the wrong word that I used. Ross Brawn is incredibly smart. It was him that convinced Schumacher testing was necessary. Before this Schumacher didn't see the point in doing any testing. He might not put the hand of the father on him but I do believe Hamilton would learn a lot from Brawn on how to approach races and I do think they would work well together.


More likely he'll have the same or more commitments, the difference with McLaren would be that this time they would be personal endorsements and he/his management would get a greater cut.

Hamilton won't accept a contract with more commitments. He has said on numerous occasions that come his next contract he wants less PR commitments to allow him more time to train. This will be a sticking point with McLaren too. Some of the PR commitments Lewis has had over the last number of years has been crazy.


A pay cut isn't insulting if you look at the bigger picture. Lewis last signed his contract with McLaren during the boom years when driver salaries were considerably higher. We're now in the middle of a big recession and no driver earns anywhere near as much as they did or would have been worth pre-credit crunch. No driver is paid $25 million a year any more like Schumi and Kimi were in their heyday. Vettel and Button, one a double and the other a one time WDC winner are both on much smaller salaries than Lewis. It isn't an insult to Lewis to cut his pay, it reflects the market. He's a fast single WDC winner and as such his current salary is way in excess of that of his immediate peers such as Button.

Your understanding of the Mercedes offer is different to mine, I heard they offered him a smaller salary than McLaren but greater freedom to pursue his own sponsorship which would conversely allow him to increase his income.


Since neither of us actually know the details of the agreement there is no point in us debating what, buts and maybes of his offer. Credit crunch or not McLaren have no shortage of money and they can afford to pay him the same salary he has always had. I had a similar situation with a job I was in about 6 months ago. They were using the credit crunch as an excuse to not give fair wages to reflect the experience, despite the company having crazy profits every years. I left for higher wages in a different job as have many others since then. I was the best at what I did there and they ring me every now and then to ask me questions. It's hurting them that I and so many others have left but that's their problem. They have paid a price for trying to screw their employees out of deserved salary. It will hurt McLaren if Lewis leaves too. He is the best driver there. They are unlikely to find a better replacement and it is clear by now that Jenson needs a superior or perfect car to win a championship. He is not on Lewis's level.


So he's staking his future on the prospect of Brackley doing something they've never been capable of doing before and becoming consistent championship challengers year on year? They couldn't do that with massive financial and resource input from Honda and they don't really show signs of managing it with the much reduced input from Mercedes.

They have won a championship before so clearly the ability is there. It has been longer since McLaren won a championship because they made such a dud car in 2009 and were playing catch up the next two years. With the rule changes in 2014 you might find the cream of the crop changes very quickly at the top. See? I'm a poet and... ;)

[truefan72]

n us debating what, buts and maybes of his offer. Credit crunch or not McLaren have no shortage of money and they can afford to pay him the same salary he has always had. I had a similar situation with a job I was in about 6 months ago. They were using the credit crunch as an excuse to not give fair wages to reflect the experience, despite the company having crazy profits every years. I left for higher wages in a different job as have many others since then. I was the best at what I did there and they ring me every now and then to ask me questions. It's hurting them that I and so many others have left but that's their problem. They have paid a price for trying to screw their employees out of deserved salary. It will hurt McLaren if Lewis leaves too. He is the best driver there. They are unlikely to find a better replacement and it is clear by now that Jenson needs a superior or perfect car to win a championship. He is not on Lewis's level.


yup, been there too
this is just a power play by mclaren that will backfire, in more ways than they can anticipate.
I've always said that Ron Dennis is a tool. Perhaps he should stick to the car manufacturing side of things.

BTW current salaries
1. Fernando Alonso Ferrari €30m
2. Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes €16m
= Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes €16m
4. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Racing €10m
= Mark Webber Red Bull Racing €10m
= Felipe Massa Ferrari €10m
= Nico Rosberg Mercedes €10m
8. Michael Schumacher Mercedes €8m
9. Kimi Raikkonen Lotus F1 Team €5m
10. Heikki Kovalainen Caterham F1 Team €4m
11. Timo Glock Marussia F1 Team €3m
12. Kamui Kobayashi Sauber €1m
= Romain Grosjean Lotus F1 Team €1m
14. Nico Hulkenberg Force India F1 €500,000
= Sergio Perez Sauber €500,000
= Vitaly Petrov Caterham F1 Team €500,000
= Pedro de la Rosa HRT €500,000
18. Pastor Maldonado Williams €400,000
= Daniel Ricciardo Scuderia Toro Rosso €400,000
= Jean-Eric Vergne Scuderia Toro Rosso €400,000
21. Bruno Senna Williams €250,000
= Narain Karthikeyan HRT €250,000
23. Paul di Resta Force India F1 €200,000
24. Charles Pic Marussia €150,000

to me Vettel is underpaid, but RBR are a unique outlier in that they pretty much cap their salaries and the drivers know that going in. I'm sure there is supplemental income from endorsements etc, that the drivers get with no interference from RBR, But I agree, that this credit crunch argument is nonsense. Even in this weakened global economic state, there are still industries making a ton of profit, Banking, energy & oil, cars and...cough.. successful F1 teams.

The problem is not the affordability, it is a simple power play, stinginess and arrogance of Mclaren/dennis, asking him to make a 1/3 less than button is ridiculous.
Jenson had a 5 year deal for 60million pounds which they renegotiated to up it to 85million for the remaining 3 years. But for hamilton they are asking him to take a pay cut? ridiculous
Maybe they don't want him back and this is their way of pushing him out the door, but like I said, it will have dire consequences for them going down that path.

[The Black Knight]

yup, been there too
this is just a power play by mclaren that will backfire, in more ways than they can anticipate.
I've always said that Ron Dennis is a tool. Perhaps he should stick to the car manufacturing side of things.

BTW current salaries
1. Fernando Alonso Ferrari €30m
2. Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes €16m
= Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes €16m
4. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Racing €10m
= Mark Webber Red Bull Racing €10m
= Felipe Massa Ferrari €10m
= Nico Rosberg Mercedes €10m
8. Michael Schumacher Mercedes €8m
9. Kimi Raikkonen Lotus F1 Team €5m
10. Heikki Kovalainen Caterham F1 Team €4m
11. Timo Glock Marussia F1 Team €3m
12. Kamui Kobayashi Sauber €1m
= Romain Grosjean Lotus F1 Team €1m
14. Nico Hulkenberg Force India F1 €500,000
= Sergio Perez Sauber €500,000
= Vitaly Petrov Caterham F1 Team €500,000
= Pedro de la Rosa HRT €500,000
18. Pastor Maldonado Williams €400,000
= Daniel Ricciardo Scuderia Toro Rosso €400,000
= Jean-Eric Vergne Scuderia Toro Rosso €400,000
21. Bruno Senna Williams €250,000
= Narain Karthikeyan HRT €250,000
23. Paul di Resta Force India F1 €200,000
24. Charles Pic Marussia €150,000

to me Vettel is underpaid, but RBR are a unique outlier in that they pretty much cap their salaries and the drivers know that going in. I'm sure there is supplemental income from endorsements etc, that the drivers get with no interference from RBR, But I agree, that this credit crunch argument is nonsense. Even in this weakened global economic state, there are still industries making a ton of profit, Banking, energy & oil, cars and...cough.. successful F1 teams.

The problem is not the affordability, it is a simple power play, stinginess and arrogance of Mclaren/dennis, asking him to make a 1/3 less than button is ridiculous.
Jenson had a 5 year deal for 60million pounds which they renegotiated to up it to 85million for the remaining 3 years. But for hamilton they are asking him to take a pay cut? ridiculous
Maybe they don't want him back and this is their way of pushing him out the door, but like I said, it will have dire consequences for them going down that path.

Isn't Schumacher on 30 million?

Agree with the rest. Jenson's signed his deal at the end of 2009 if memory serves me. The credit crunch was well underway then so this isn't an affordability thing. As you say it is stinginess. The unfortunate thing for companies that try to squeeze their employees is that a lot of people actually are stupid enough to fall for the "we simply can't afford it line". Maybe those people lack ambition or perhaps they aren't smart enough to actually look at the big picture, and that is that if you're good enough, no matter what the recession, there will always be someone looking for your services and Lewis is definitely good enough. If details of the offer as I described are true he'd be an idiot to stay put at McLaren. If McLaren want loyalty from their drivers and staff, they have to treat them fairly first. But yeah, maybe they want him out and this is his way of pushing him. It will be their loss either way. You can be sure there will be a clause in Hamilton's contract with Mercedes as well that if he doesn't end up in X position in the championship or whatever he can leave. If Mercedes are that confident of delivering, there's no reason why that can't be put in print.

[driveace]

Where do you get those figures from for drivers pay? I understood that when Schumaker was at Ferrari I believe that he was 30 mill,which included all the add on,s from his own sponsorship.But I was also under the impression that there were lots of drivers that were PAY drivers.I also understood that without Pastor,Williams could not afford to compete,as he brings a phenomenal amount of cash to them .

[truefan72]

Isn't Schumacher on 30 million?

Agree with the rest. Jenson's signed his deal at the end of 2009 if memory serves me. The credit crunch was well underway then so this isn't an affordability thing. As you say it is stinginess. The unfortunate thing for companies that try to squeeze their employees is that a lot of people actually are stupid enough to fall for the "we simply can't afford it line". Maybe those people lack ambition or perhaps they aren't smart enough to actually look at the big picture, and that is that if you're good enough, no matter what the recession, there will always be someone looking for your services and Lewis is definitely good enough. If details of the offer as I described are true he'd be an idiot to stay put at McLaren. If McLaren want loyalty from their drivers and staff, they have to treat them fairly first. But yeah, maybe they want him out and this is his way of pushing him. It will be their loss either way. You can be sure there will be a clause in Hamilton's contract with Mercedes as well that if he doesn't end up in X position in the championship or whatever he can leave. If Mercedes are that confident of delivering, there's no reason why that can't be put in print.

these are the figures I got for the 2012 salaries not contract amounts
1. Jenson did have a deal signed in 2009 for 60 million pounds, but towards the end of the 2011 season (at the Indian GP to be precise) they reworked his contract and increased its value to 85million pounds, which was an effective pay raise and brought his salary up to match Hamilton's annual figure for the final 3 years of the contract.
2. Now in the 2012 season, they are looking to Hamilton and asking him to take a 1/3 paycut annualy from what he is currently making for any future contract
3. If times were tough, why increase Button's contract, its not as if he delivered a championship
4. If they were planning on offering Hamilton a 1/3 pay cut anyway, why increase button's contract. Would it not make sense to keep it at the current level and then ask Hamilton to come down to Jenson's rate?

Go figure :\

[truefan72]

Where do you get those figures from for drivers pay? I understood that when Schumaker was at Ferrari I believe that he was 30 mill,which included all the add on,s from his own sponsorship.But I was also under the impression that there were lots of drivers that were PAY drivers.I also understood that without Pastor,Williams could not afford to compete,as he brings a phenomenal amount of cash to them .

ok let me try to explain this to the best of my knowledge
1. MSC deal while at Ferrari was in 2006 and the slaries displayed here are for 2012, a simple google search brings up this information, which is the same figure on many websites
2. Even if you are a pay driver, you are drawing a salary. so if Maldonado brings €12 million to the team and gets paid €400k annaully for 3 years then that is probably deducted from the overall package
3. My understanding is that the Santander deal is actually in the neighborhood of €42 million annually of which $30 goes to his salary and some was deferred for the kimi buy out upfront as well

this is my understanding so everyone feel free to correct me if this isn't the case :)

[Tazio]

Let's get real fellas,
Hamilton was spoiled by being gifted a seat on a top team. No great driver was ever gifted a seat the way Hamilton was, and it went to his head.

Two of the greatest talents in F1 history, Jimmy Clark and Ayrton Senna were not put into the situation Hamilton was. Clark didn't even take a race victory untill 1962, and his first race was halfway through the 1960 season. McLaren is both an asset as well as a liability to him. Will he go to Mercedes, probably not? Would a change of scenery help round him out as a driver, I have very little doubt? Should he leave; not if you live and die with him, harboring the fear that he may get into an inferior car? Personally I dig the Boss, then again I admire most of the drivers. Is he the best of the current field?-- Maybe

[Tazio]

I don't agree he was gifted it. He put himself in the situation and was lucky maybe, but he worked hard in the lower categories to impress enough to have that seat. The only other driver comparable in recent times is Sebastian Vettel. He too was signed up at an early age in a driver development program, and would have debuted in a Red Bull had there been a place for him. He spent a couple of seasons at TR sure, but was always going to get a good drive and he's proved his worth just like Lewis IMO. I don't think Hamilton has taken his position for granted and has acknowledged his position many times.It was a gift in the sense that he may not have been as successful without the full knowledge that a seat on a top team was waiting for him if he succeeded in his well choreographed experience in feeder series'. This is not a commentary on his place as a great driver in F1. I am merely suggesting that he may have had to do less independent thinking then all those who came before him. Vettel is a good example of someone who may have had the same experience at roughly the same time, and agree with you on that point. It may also be why Ferrari is a little cool on Perez as much as he has demonstrated his talent. He is groomed for a seat with them, and I think there is a little concern on the part of that team that a drive in a top car will turn him into a head case. I think this is the genius of having a young driver program that doesn't concentrate on partisans, something that has been a strength of Ferrari for the most part. Of course they can afford to go after proven commodities, then again so can RB and McLaren.

[Malbec]

I have lived with an alcoholic (Caucasian) but I've got friends and family with similar upbringing, socialised with and most have 'normal' lives with relationships and bringing up their own families.

I'm not sure if I'm missing something, are you Chinese?


in the case of the latter Adriano had much deeper issues. He played football to please his father but struggled to cope after his death and admitted he felt lost in the world.

Now you've opened a whole can of worms! Lewis started karting at some insanely young age pushed by his father. Did he work so hard in racing to please his father or does he really enjoy it for what it is? I don't think even he knows the truth. I read an interview with Victoria Pendleton recently where she's pretty open that she started really cycling because she felt that would make her closer to her father, that he would love her more for it. She's been lucky in that she's found a strong support network especially from her husband but she seems unsure as to where to go next and whether she enjoyed cycling for what it was or what it represented. Of course each person is different but one does wonder exactly what drives him. He needs a shrink ;)

I've always found the father/son relationship interesting in F1. I don't think its coincidence that the only two sons of F1 drivers to get the WDC both lost their fathers at a young age which had a profound impact on their lives. Those with living F1 fathers seem to find it easier to get into F1 (probably a combo of the right connections, genepool, funding and mentoring) but seem to lack that extra something that gives them the edge to get championships under their belt.


a McLaren insider told James Allen "that's where his head's at" regarding Hamilton's entourage at last year's Canadian GP.

Well we don't know exactly why he surrounds himself with the people he does. Is it because they share similar interests? Is it because he wants to please his girlfriend? Does he just enjoy their company or does he just want to get away from motorsport culture when he's away from the car?

[BDunnell]

I've always found the father/son relationship interesting in F1. I don't think its coincidence that the only two sons of F1 drivers to get the WDC both lost their fathers at a young age which had a profound impact on their lives. Those with living F1 fathers seem to find it easier to get into F1 (probably a combo of the right connections, genepool, funding and mentoring) but seem to lack that extra something that gives them the edge to get championships under their belt.

All very good points, but I think it has to be said that, within the living F1 fathers, approaches are very different indeed. The stories of how Nelson Piquet acted when his son first tested for Williams compared with Keke Rosberg suggests to me that not all can be categorised together. This presumably, therefore, goes for the performances of their sons, too. What you say may be mere coincidence.

[Malbec]

I am merely suggesting that he may have had to do less independent thinking then all those who came before him. Vettel is a good example of someone who may have had the same experience at roughly the same time, and agree with you on that point.

I think modern drivers are made of different stuff compared to drivers from bygone eras, especially pre-90.

Modern drivers tend to have been into driving since early childhood while previous drivers often had some kind of other life experience. Many older drivers pursued other professions and many seemed to have become drivers almost by accident. JYS was a shooter and worked at a petrol station, Clarke was a farmer, many others started out as mechanics.

If anything I'm surprised more drivers don't end up like Lewis compared to, say, Vettel who seems more rounded (incidentally I love Vettel's answer to a journalist who asked him whether winning his first WDC was the best thing that happened in his life. Seb answered "you clearly weren't there when I lost my virginity". That is someone who hasn't lost a sense of perspective in life ;) ). They lead such sheltered lives from such a young age that its easy for them to lose all touch with reality in the sense that we know it.


It may also be why Ferrari is a little cool on Perez as much as he has demonstrated his talent. He is groomed for a seat with them, and I think there is a little concern on the part of that team that a drive in a top car will turn him into a head case.

From what I understand there are several reasons why Ferrari are cool on Perez.

Firstly he is highly inconsistent and his speed is up for debate. He's been roundly outqualified by his teammate this season and he hasn't been able to make a conventional strategy work. Two of his podiums came by using a split strategy from his teammate as a result of qualifying poorly while the other was in changeable wet conditions.

But perhaps more importantly he has apparently shown signs of demonstrating an inflated sense of selfworth at Sauber midseason which has made him difficult to work with. I agree that if he goes quickly to Ferrari this could be exacerbated.

Anyway Ferrari always has the pick of the crop and I don't see why they should go for someone inexperienced and unproven when even the second seat there can attract very serious talent.

[Malbec]

Isn't Schumacher on 30 million?

Agree with the rest. Jenson's signed his deal at the end of 2009 if memory serves me. The credit crunch was well underway then so this isn't an affordability thing. As you say it is stinginess. The unfortunate thing for companies that try to squeeze their employees is that a lot of people actually are stupid enough to fall for the "we simply can't afford it line". Maybe those people lack ambition or perhaps they aren't smart enough to actually look at the big picture, and that is that if you're good enough, no matter what the recession, there will always be someone looking for your services and Lewis is definitely good enough. If details of the offer as I described are true he'd be an idiot to stay put at McLaren. If McLaren want loyalty from their drivers and staff, they have to treat them fairly first. But yeah, maybe they want him out and this is his way of pushing him. It will be their loss either way. You can be sure there will be a clause in Hamilton's contract with Mercedes as well that if he doesn't end up in X position in the championship or whatever he can leave. If Mercedes are that confident of delivering, there's no reason why that can't be put in print.

No, Schumacher was always on a fraction of his Ferrari salary at Mercedes.

I'd forgotten that Jenson had a pay hike.

As for McLaren being stingy, why should they pay a dollar more than they need to? The market dictates how much an employer can get away with paying their employees. In McLaren's case they know there are few racing seats worth of Lewis' talent and that even fewer are available. I bet their offer to Lewis dropped substantially when Webber re-signed for RBR and Lewis got rebuffed by Ferrari because it meant that either he accepted their offer or went to a far less competitive team. Now his choice looks to be exactly that.

If Lewis was negotiating for a contract for 2014 and beyond things would be different because there are more seats open then and it would be more likely that drivers like Webber and Schumacher would definitely call it a day, then the balance would be more in Lewis' favour and McLaren would have to offer more to be guaranteed to keep him.

Also I do find it difficult to pity a driver who gets paid more in one year than most people will ever make in a lifetime.

[Malbec]

They have won a championship before so clearly the ability is there. It has been longer since McLaren won a championship because they made such a dud car in 2009 and were playing catch up the next two years. With the rule changes in 2014 you might find the cream of the crop changes very quickly at the top. See? I'm a poet and... ;)

We've heard this story before. There's going to be a major rules change so the little guys will have a chance to pull a rabbit out of the hat. I like that fairytale too.

The truth is that bigger better resourced teams are able to explore more avenues of development than the smaller teams and are therefore more capable of finding quicker solutions when the rules are shaken up. That is why despite several major rules changes over the past two decades we still see the same familiar two at the top, Ferrari and McLaren. RBR has risen thanks to wise management and substantial investment while the opposite happened at Williams to see them drop down.

[truefan72]

We've heard this story before. There's going to be a major rules change so the little guys will have a chance to pull a rabbit out of the hat. I like that fairytale too.

The truth is that bigger better resourced teams are able to explore more avenues of development than the smaller teams and are therefore more capable of finding quicker solutions when the rules are shaken up. That is why despite several major rules changes over the past two decades we still see the same familiar two at the top, Ferrari and McLaren. RBR has risen thanks to wise management and substantial investment while the opposite happened at Williams to see them drop down.

worked for RBR right?
worked for brawn right?

[truefan72]

No, Schumacher was always on a fraction of his Ferrari salary at Mercedes.

Also I do find it difficult to pity a driver who gets paid more in one year than most people will ever make in a lifetime.

this pretty much sums up where you are coming from

[zako85]

I can see why McLaren can now be aggressive with Hamilton's compensation. As others have pointed out, Hamilton has little other options. RBR already signed his drivers. Ferrari is Alonso's camp. And Mercedes is having a hard time keeping up with Lotus on track. Certainly, Mercedes may have a good budget and human resources to work with. However, do not discount the fact that there are people on the board of directors of Daimler AG how had voiced their support for pulling out of F1. You never know if they won't pull a Toyota or Honda style exit say in the middle of next year. McLaren and Hamilton can continue to negotiate until they settle on a contract with pay so low that Hamilton is borderline walking out of room, yet high enough to make him sign the contact. I don't see why other F1 teams should act any different when signing drivers.

[Malbec]

worked for RBR right?
worked for brawn right?

RBR rose because they had continual investment into the team managed wisely. Their improvement was gradual over a series of major rules changes.

Brawn just about proves my argument. A mid-range team that invested unbelievably heavily in one car that used a new interpretation of existing rules. The frontrunners were caught out. By mid-season though Brawn were overtaken by the leading teams that could develop their own double diffusers alongside other developments. Brawn were lucky that they scored enough points early on in the season to tide them over to secure both championships.

Incidentally how have Brawn done since as Mercedes? Back in the midfield somewhere aren't they, continually threatening to break into the top 3 and never quite making it.

Anyway both are not examples of less well resourced teams breaking through thanks to rules changes. Honda invested more into the Brawn 001 than any other F1 car in history while RB spending has outstripped that of Ferrari and McLaren for several years now.

[The Black Knight]

No, Schumacher was always on a fraction of his Ferrari salary at Mercedes.

I'd forgotten that Jenson had a pay hike.

As for McLaren being stingy, why should they pay a dollar more than they need to? The market dictates how much an employer can get away with paying their employees. In McLaren's case they know there are few racing seats worth of Lewis' talent and that even fewer are available. I bet their offer to Lewis dropped substantially when Webber re-signed for RBR and Lewis got rebuffed by Ferrari because it meant that either he accepted their offer or went to a far less competitive team. Now his choice looks to be exactly that.

If Lewis was negotiating for a contract for 2014 and beyond things would be different because there are more seats open then and it would be more likely that drivers like Webber and Schumacher would definitely call it a day, then the balance would be more in Lewis' favour and McLaren would have to offer more to be guaranteed to keep him.

Also I do find it difficult to pity a driver who gets paid more in one year than most people will ever make in a lifetime.

I think might be wrong there:

The £30m man: Michael Schumacher leaves his rivals in the shade with mega pay deal | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-1260700/The-30m-man-Michael-Schumacher-leaves-rivals-shade-mega-pay-deal.html)

The dailymail isn't the only source to report this. This was big news about two and a half years ago.

Whether you find it difficult to pity a driver is irrelevant. Same way that McLaren shouldn't pay a dollar more than they need to, why should Lewis accept less than what he is worth? He shouldn't and he won't. We can continue to go tit for tat on this but until such time as we learn anything about offers made there's little point in discussing this more.

[Malbec]

I think might be wrong there:

The £30m man: Michael Schumacher leaves his rivals in the shade with mega pay deal | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-1260700/The-30m-man-Michael-Schumacher-leaves-rivals-shade-mega-pay-deal.html)

The dailymail isn't the only source to report this. This was big news about two and a half years ago.

Whether you find it difficult to pity a driver is irrelevant. Same way that McLaren shouldn't pay a dollar more than they need to, why should Lewis accept less than what he is worth? He shouldn't and he won't. We can continue to go tit for tat on this but until such time as we learn anything about offers made there's little point in discussing this more.

Well, Schumacher might be being paid a lot in personal endorsements (as he's always done) but I don't think Mercedes is paying him directly anything like 30 mill.

What is anything worth? Only as much as what someone is willing to pay for it. That figure changes with the market and with RBR filling its seats and Ferrari making him unwelcome Lewis' alternatives are pretty poor. No driver has an intrinsic value and its his bad luck that he's negotiating at a time when McLaren holds the cards since the other seats are filled.

Anyway as you say we know little about the actual details of what he's being offered so lets wait till all is clear.

[Mia 01]

If Nico and MS happily drives for Mercedes, why not Lewis?
Don´t the Mercedes team deserv Him.

[wedge]

I'm not sure if I'm missing something, are you Chinese?

Yes


Now you've opened a whole can of worms! Lewis started karting at some insanely young age pushed by his father. Did he work so hard in racing to please his father or does he really enjoy it for what it is? I don't think even he knows the truth.

Lewis was racing RC cars to a high level before karting.


Let's get real fellas,
Hamilton was spoiled by being gifted a seat on a top team. No great driver was ever gifted a seat the way Hamilton was, and it went to his head.

Two of the greatest talents in F1 history, Jimmy Clark and Ayrton Senna were not put into the situation Hamilton was. Clark didn't even take a race victory untill 1962, and his first race was halfway through the 1960 season. McLaren is both an asset as well as a liability to him. Will he go to Mercedes, probably not? Would a change of scenery help round him out as a driver, I have very little doubt? Should he leave; not if you live and die with him, harboring the fear that he may get into an inferior car? Personally I dig the Boss, then again I admire most of the drivers. Is he the best of the current field?-- Maybe

Regardless, it never stopped Senna, Alonso and even to some extent Prost acting like spoilt brats/throwing their dummy out.


They have won a championship before so clearly the ability is there. It has been longer since McLaren won a championship because they made such a dud car in 2009 and were playing catch up the next two years. With the rule changes in 2014 you might find the cream of the crop changes very quickly at the top.

Major rule changes tends to shake up the order some what.

Benetton in 1994

Renault in 2005

Brawn in 2009

[Bagwan]

If Merc is actually thinking about Lewis in a serious way , then it should be obvious that the decision has been made to spend some money and go for a championship or two .
As it seems that not many drivers would give up a WDC chance for a few bucks , there would likely be need for some proof that the money was there for the car as well .

It's a big "if" .
If they get him , it will certainly herald the fact that Merc is in it for the long term .
That's what Bernie would really like , and perhaps the reason Eddie saw it as good enough to rumour .

[Tazio]

Regardless, it never stopped Senna, Alonso and even to some extent Prost acting like spoilt brats/throwing their dummy out.
Am I the only one who admires the bejessus out of all these guys, not the least of which being Lewis Hamilton, and elite athletes in other sports that would compete for food and travel expenses if that is all that was on offer? I am only a little surprised that many more of these professional don't take their first $10 million and party their asses off only to die in the hands of a whore while smoking cocaine in the buff. :s mokin:

[gloomyDAY]

I'm really on the edge of my seat for a confirmation. If Lewis leaves to Mercedes, then I'm going to be jumping for joy. That will leave a door open for a certain Mexican at McLaren next year.


Am I the only one who admires the bejessus out of all these guys, not the least of which being Lewis Hamilton, and elite athletes in other sports that would compete for food and travel expenses if that is all that was on offer? I am only a little surprised that many more of these professional don't take their first $10 million and party their asses off only to die in the hands of a whore while smoking cocaine in the buff. :s mokin:I'm with you. Hell, I've been there to some extent.

[truefan72]

I always ring in the new year with two hookers and a fishbowl of blow at the standard hotel hollywood ;)

[steveaki13]

I wonder if todays race has made any impact on Lewis about his decision.

On the one hand, Mclaren have now got such a fast car he must be able to win a few races yet and still challenge for the title.

On the other hand though, Mclaren have more realiability issues and through those and pitstop problems over the last couple of years have cost him a few wins.

Does he continue in a fast car or gamble that a change of scenery brings a change of luck??

I know which one I would choose. Afterall you can always make a quick car more realiable. But not alwaays a realiable car quicker.

[N4D13]

And it's not like Mercedes' reliability has been really great this season either. You can ask this Schumacher guy what he thinks about Merc's reliability...

In any case, Lewis' position in the WDC and the Mercedes drivers' show very clearly where both cars stand, and which is the best option for him.

[steveaki13]

And it's not like Mercedes' reliability has been really great this season either. You can ask this Schumacher guy what he thinks about Merc's reliability...

In any case, Lewis' position in the WDC and the Mercedes drivers' show very clearly where both cars stand, and which is the best option for him.


No I agree totally. It all points that he should stay at Mclaren.

I just wonder if his mind is at a point that he is sure he wants to leave.

It would be a backward step in nearly every way, but sometimes drivers just feel like they need a change.

Hopefully Mclaren can convince him to stay

[truefan72]

No I agree totally. It all points that he should stay at Mclaren.

I just wonder if his mind is at a point that he is sure he wants to leave.

It would be a backward step in nearly every way, but sometimes drivers just feel like they need a change.

Hopefully Mclaren can convince him to stay

I don't think Hamilton wants to leave Mclaren
but I believe that he feels insulted by their offer and rightfully so.
It has never been an issue about wanting a change of scenery or nut understanding that on average they produce top cars.
It has simply been the matter of contract terms and a compensation offer that seems to reflect either a disdain for the man or a lack of appreciation of his value.
You don't increase the salary of Button to match Hamilton's current salary based on a half season of effort in 2011, with 3 years remaining on that contract, then in 2012 ask Hamilton to take a 33% pay cut from his salary while outdriving the car and his teammate while having a legitimate shot at the WDC. Its absurd. If they want him then the very least they can do is pay him a contract that matches button's for the next 3 years

to me there are 4 legitimate teams that would vie for his services outside of mclaren.
Lotus & Williams (although they might not afford his salary)
Mercedes
and an outside possibility of ferrari, even though that would be highly unlikely, but not completely out of the question.

[Mia 01]

For Lewis there´s moore to it than a fast car I think. The BRAND is important.

For MacLaren there´s moore to it than a fast driver I think. The BRAND is important.

[F1boat]

The problem is that Mercedes are hardly more reliable than McLaren. We saw that they had a quick, but fragile car in the beginning of the season. Now the car is more reliable, but slower. The thing is that if you are losing the championship you need to take more risks and sometimes this backfires. It happened to McLaren in 2005. They are slow at the beginning of the season and had aggressive developement which made them faster than Renault. However, the car broke many times and they lost both championships. So when you say that McLaren fail Lewis you have to keep in mind that for the moment they are losing both championships and believe that they need to be aggressive. Remember that a team and a driver win and lose together. Red Bull failed Seb many times, but in the end they helped him to become the champion he is. Ferrari for the moment are also failing Fernando because they fail to produce a car which is fast enough to allow him to challenge for race wins. If you look at the situation without bias you will notice that no team has been able to dominate the season and that's why the championship is so interesting. McLaren are the fastest, but not very reliable. Red Bull are also fast and unreliable, while Ferrari and Lotus are reliable, but not always fast. And Mercedes are neither fast, nor reliable. So Lewis should be happy that he is in McLaren.

[truefan72]

Mclaren ready to match Mercedes offer: McLaren 'to match Mercedes bid' for Hamilton - Yahoo! Eurosport UK (http://eurosport.yahoo.com/news/mclaren-match-merecedes-bid-hamilton-110630021.html)

From the article: McLaren is believed to be offering at least, if not more, than the approximate £11.5 million per season deal that it is understood Mercedes has put on the table.

So several things of note from this article.
1. this should end any speculation or questions about whether or not Mercedes made him and offer
2. This puts in question the security of either MSC or Rosberg's seats
3. Mercedes seem to be committing to being in F1 until at least 2020, and are making changes to be a real championship contender
4. Mclaren seem to have come to their senses and now see the urgency to retain Hamilton

Now I'm a bit torn as to where he should go and probably Hamilton himself is at this point
On the one hand you have a known quantity and the only place you have called home
on the other hand you have a major team ready to sink in large sums of money and development and Ross Brawn, as well as the engine

[kfzmeister]

Get ready for another downturn in his attitude. Tramp crappin' all over him again. If he were in the points lead, this would definitely cost him the Championship!

WHOA! Chris Brown Making Out With Nicole Scherzinger In The Club! (PHOTOS) | Global Grind (http://globalgrind.com/entertainment/chris-brown-nicole-scherzinger-kissing-making-out-club-photos?gpage=1&#gtop)

[F1boat]

Get ready for another downturn in his attitude. Tramp crappin' all over him again. If he were in the points lead, this would definitely cost him the Championship!

WHOA! Chris Brown Making Out With Nicole Scherzinger In The Club! (PHOTOS) | Global Grind (http://globalgrind.com/entertainment/chris-brown-nicole-scherzinger-kissing-making-out-club-photos?gpage=1&#gtop)

That's bad and may even cost Lewis, as he is not on his top form when he is unhappy... But still the mighty McLaren may give him advantage to compensate this and win.
About Mercedes, I think that now it is unlikely that he will go there.

[AndyL]

Get ready for another downturn in his attitude. Tramp crappin' all over him again. If he were in the points lead, this would definitely cost him the Championship!

WHOA! Chris Brown Making Out With Nicole Scherzinger In The Club! (PHOTOS) | Global Grind (http://globalgrind.com/entertainment/chris-brown-nicole-scherzinger-kissing-making-out-club-photos?gpage=1&#gtop)

I think I see a second gunman on the grassy knoll.

[Knock-on]

Ross Brawn says Michael Schumacher's future is still under discussion - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102877)

So, if Lewis goes to Mercedes (wont happen) then Schumy is out on his ear.

What I don't understand is how Schumy has taken Mercedes forward????

Points in 2012

Nico 93
Schu 43

2011

Nico 89
Schu 76

2010

Nico 142
Schu 72

Of course, the car that Nico and Michael took over had just won the Drivers and Constructers World Championship.

How has Schumy taken the team forward Ross?

[Alfa Fan]

He hasn't, at all. But I'd also argue we are in an era where a drivers ability to develop a car/team is at its least usefulness, with no testing and restricted development.

[Tazio]

Get ready for another downturn in his attitude. Tramp crappin' all over him again. If he were in the points lead, this would definitely cost him the Championship!

WHOA! Chris Brown Making Out With Nicole Scherzinger In The Club! (PHOTOS) | Global Grind (http://globalgrind.com/entertainment/chris-brown-nicole-scherzinger-kissing-making-out-club-photos?gpage=1&#gtop)The Gangsta' of love, aka "The Boss" doesn't need to get mad; he just needs to get even.
Or does he? :confused: ;)

Lewis Hamilton Defends Mystery Girl 'Kiss': 'She Is Like My Sister' - Celebrity Gossip, News & Photos, Movie Reviews, Competitions - Entertainmentwise (http://www.entertainmentwise.com/photos/81154/1/Lewis-Hamilton-Defends-Mystery-Girl-Kiss-She-Is-Like-My-Sister-)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/07/14/article-2173377-140D769E000005DC-347_306x640.jpg

[Tazio]

Oh dear, have we reached this point already? :eek:

Of being super-jealous?............ Yea'!! :facelick:

[kfzmeister]

Twitter boards are lighting up already about an announcement within a few hours. It's just 3-4am in Europe, wherever you might be.
Schumacher out and Hamilton in. Perez to Mclaren.

[N4D13]

Twitter boards are lighting up already about an announcement within a few hours. It's just 3-4am in Europe, wherever you might be.
Schumacher out and Hamilton in. Perez to Mclaren.
I'm calling BS on that. I'm probably just a few hours from being proven wrong, though... but I wanted to say this before going to sleep. :P

[CNR]

F1: Hamilton Expected To Be Confirmed By Mercedes Race Team (http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-hamilton-expected-to-be-confirmed-by-mercedes-race-team/)
F1: Hamilton Expected To Be Confirmed By Mercedes Race Team

British newspapers the Daily Mail and the Daily Telegraph are both reporting tonight that Lewis Hamilton will be confirmed tomorrow as a Mercedes driver from 2013.

In conjunction with that will come news of Michael Schumacher leaving the Anglo-German team – but whether that is for a final retirement or a swansong elsewhere remains to be seen.

[Dave B]

All my info points to a Mercedes announcement as soon as they've signed the Concorde agreement, and yes Perez seems favourite to replace Hamilton. We shall see...

[truefan72]

sweet jesus this is really going to happen !
I thought I was ready and prepared, but it is still giving me a butterflies in my tummy

At the end Hamilton was in a win win situation and although mclaren seemed like a better bet, I think that a change of scenery, Ross Brawn and perhaps a strong car for 2012 might just be what's needed for him
I honestly feel that the Hamilton made a decision based on a team that really wanted him and were willing to pay him accordingly, probably committed to being in F1 for the next decade, and gave him assurances of doing everything in their power and budget to build a superb car. Ron Dennis and mclaren played hardball and lost IMO.
What is interesting is how the team and driver will manage in the last 7 races. I know they will be professional enough to still make that push for a WDC, and I hope he wins it and leaves in style

[truefan72]

now as to schumi, I think he is heading to ferrari for a year,
perez moves to mclaren,
sutil joins Sauber
and massa gives a trulliesque performance at caterham replacing petrov, or a 3rd driver role at ferrari, or is all together out of a seat in 2013

[Knock-on]

BBC Sport - Lewis Hamilton to leave McLaren for Mercedes (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/mobile/formula1/19755236)

Well, it's official.

Hmmmmm

[Dave B]

Official.... ish! But certainly the ultra cautious BBC don't run stories they're not prepared to stand by.

Paul O'Neill just tweeted that Lewis may*have just ruined his career (I'm paraphrasing!) and I'm inclined to agree : his management seem to value fame more than success.

[ShiftingGears]

now as to schumi, I think he is heading to ferrari for a year

I seriously disagree. I think his Singapore error might've been his last chance.

[Knock-on]

Schumy will retire.

I hope Mercedes can deliver a car for Lewis and prove Owy wrong.

However, I share his concern.

[Robinho]

Crikey I didn't think that would actually happen, and the fact that McLaren have poached Perez is equally big news IMO, we'll really get to see how good the kid is, and McLaren have 2 drivers with a similar style and often gentle on tyres. Will schumi go to Sauber, Peter said he'd offer him a job, that would close the loop on his career nicely, after his spell on the all conquering sauber merc sportscars

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

[Zico]

sweet jesus this is really going to happen !
I thought I was ready and prepared, but it is still giving me a butterflies in my tummy

At the end Hamilton was in a win win situation and although mclaren seemed like a better bet, I think that a change of scenery, Ross Brawn and perhaps a strong car for 2012 might just be what's needed for him
I honestly feel that the Hamilton made a decision based on a team that really wanted him and were willing to pay him accordingly, probably committed to being in F1 for the next decade, and gave him assurances of doing everything in their power and budget to build a superb car. Ron Dennis and mclaren played hardball and lost IMO.
What is interesting is how the team and driver will manage in the last 7 races. I know they will be professional enough to still make that push for a WDC, and I hope he wins it and leaves in style


A big shock for me this morning too, wow!.

On one hand I feel it is a big mistake on Hamiltons part but then maybe there was an accumulative effect of additional unseen things behind the scenes we dont know about, that led to this.
If McLaren actually knew of the decision prior to the last 2 races the conspiracy theorists will have a field day... It will be very interesting to see how they handle the last 7 races.

[Big Ben]

I wonder what Ron Dennis thinks of this... I would have told him they were racing the wrong driver a few years back but I was on the wrong side of the tv screen.

All in all I'd say the move (if it happens) fits well in what I perceive to by some general traits of Hamilton's character.

[driveace]

Already announced Hamilton signs for Mercedes,so Michael must be going,but who will partner Button ?

[ShiftingGears]

If Merc do produce a good car next season, Button may wonder if he took the correct path too.

I don't think so. I think Hamilton has displayed the general opinion that McLaren has been holding him back when things don't go his way, whereas with Button he seems to be a lot more able to take team mistakes in his stride, and as far as I can tell, is content with driving for them.

That aside, there is really nothing on paper to suggest that Mercedes will be better than McLaren next year, so I don't think Button will have any regrets about staying.

[driveace]

He probably feels like you or I would if we were taking our road car to a garage for work and then we were not happy with the work carried out.What would we do,but take it to a different garage,so he is having a different car and going to a different garage for work on it,and getting a lot more money too !

[Bartek]

Already announced Hamilton signs for Mercedes,so Michael must be going,but who will partner Button ?

Perez - confirmed

[Mark]

Good move.

[pino]

Perez - confirmed

Sound like Massa will retain his seat at Ferrari then ;)

[christophulus]

For F1 it's probably a good move, as you would now hope there will be four top teams competing for wins and championships. Although I can't believe Hamilton has moved for anything other than money, which is a shame.

[Mark]

Money, yes. But he's been with McLaren since he was a wee lad, and I'll bet he's thinking that at his point in his career he need to make a change or be stuck there forever.

[fandango]

...Paul O'Neill just tweeted that Lewis may*have just ruined his career (I'm paraphrasing!) and I'm inclined to agree : his management seem to value fame more than success.

Hamilton has shown this year that he's capable of raising his game and making sure that any f***-ups are not because of his driving, and I say that as most definitely NOT his No.1 fan. So if he maintains his driving standard and it doesn't work out at Mercedes at the very least McLaren would take him back (and probably dump a by-then long in the tooth Button).

Excellent move by McLaren to take on Perez. He'll definitely put Button to the test, and having two drivers who are masters at tyre management is a very interesting strategy to take post-Hamilton.

This is great for F1. Good for Hamilton. He's not doing it for the money. He's doing it because he believes he can win that way (the last bit is just my opinion).

And we should have at least a grudging nod towards my countryman in the ridiculous shirt...

[Donney]

I don't see why it may be a bad move on Hamilton's part. He may be tired of the same environment, he may like a new challenge and Mercedes is a works team who will build a everything around him most definitely. Whether they build a good or car or not it remains to be seem but that happens everywhere Ferrari, Red Bull, Renault....

As a fan I love the idea, we will get to see how good he is at dealing with a new team and developing a car/team which is close but not in the top.

I also think Button is the winner here, at least for the next season.

[Knock-on]

For F1 it's probably a good move, as you would now hope there will be four top teams competing for wins and championships. Although I can't believe Hamilton has moved for anything other than money, which is a shame.

Seeing as both team were reported s offering the same money, I can't see where you're coming from.

I think that Lewis is frustrated and a change could do him good. Perez and Jense at McLaren is a potentially championship winning combination which is good. Feel a bit sorry for Nico as I think he will be as dominated as Michael was by him.

[Mark]

Hopefully a good move by all concerned, it's a shame we no longer have the British superteam, but it's not like they won the championship anyway. I'm hoping both McLaren and Mercedes will be right up there next year.

[gm99]

Perez - confirmed

To me, that is actually the bigger surprise than Hamilton joining Mercedes. I thought McLaren would go for Di Resta. Well, I suppose that leaves room at Sauber for one former multiple, Switzerland-residing world champion (no, not talking about Jackie Stewart or Alain Prost here ;)

[AndyL]

Wow. Well, I'm blown away by this news. I thought the rumours were all just a load of hot air, but it's actually happened. Suddenly I can't wait for March 2013! These moves are going to make for an interesting season.

I think McLaren have probably got the best replacement they could in Perez. I was hoping for some sort of 3-way swap deal that would bring Kimi back to McLaren, but I guess that was never realistic.

If Michael wants to continue in F1, I'm sure he will get offers. There are plenty of teams in the midfield and below who could benefit from his experience and media profile.

[F1boat]

Brave decision. Time will tell whether it is the correct one or not.

[Hawkmoon]

I'm pleased by the move as anything that makes McLaren weaker is a good thing in my book and losing Hamilton certainly weakens the folk from Woking.

I'm a little surprised that McLaren signed Perez. The kid certainly has potential and McLaren are probably hoping to emulate the Raikkonen signing from a decade ago but I don't think they would have targeted Perez if the driver market were more open.

[Malbec]

Seeing as both team were reported s offering the same money, I can't see where you're coming from.

The salary may have been the same but Mercedes were offering him greater freedom to pursue personal sponsorship contracts, hence his overall income is likely to increase with his new team.

I can see why Mercedes want him, up till now both their racedrivers have had question marks over their overall performance level. Is Schumi as quick as he once was? If he's slowed down how much slower is he than before? Rosberg has beaten Schumi but because Schumi is still an unknown quantity it doesn't say much about Rosberg's overall pace.

All those questions will be answered when Lewis takes their car out on track because he's in the prime of his career and he's a proven racewinner/WDC.

McLaren are taking a big risk on Perez but otherwise I think they'll appreciate not having to mollycoddle their driver outside the car as much as they had to with Lewis.

Likewise Lewis is taking a big gamble that Brackley will up their game and become a team good enough to continually challenge the frontrunners. If it fails then its his career that pays.

Agree that Jenson is the big winner here.

[Malbec]

To me, that is actually the bigger surprise than Hamilton joining Mercedes. I thought McLaren would go for Di Resta. Well, I suppose that leaves room at Sauber for one former multiple, Switzerland-residing world champion (no, not talking about Jackie Stewart or Alain Prost here ;)

Agreed about Di Resta but McLaren have gone for the multi-year option with Perez so clearly they are confident in him.

Apparently MS was seen with his manager talking for a long time to Peter Sauber and Kaltenborn at one of the recent races so...

[truefan72]

Its going to be a bit weird not cheering for a McLaren after so many years...

I know, me too
plus I got all this vodafone stuff that will be relegated to the woodshed now

the perez signing is an indication that things were in motion well before singapore.
Now this creates an opening at sauber, and ferrari is still in flux,
I bet you top dollar, that massa's management is on the phone right now pleading sauber to give him a seat lol

[truefan72]

Money, yes. But he's been with McLaren since he was a wee lad, and I'll bet he's thinking that at his point in his career he need to make a change or be stuck there forever.

I don't think the 2012 mercedes is worse than the 2012 Ferrari and look at what Alonso is able to accomplish with consistency and a solid car. I think that coming into the 2012 season alonso probably wrote off the year, but he dragged that car forward and produced results beyond its capability. I still think that ferrari is the 3rd best car on the grid, and on some days even below sauber and lotus, byt tyet Alonso leads the championship. Hamilton is the only other driver in that category IMO and given similar reliability and speed, he would have dragged this 2012 Mercedes to better results. I think the 2013 mercedes will be much better ( i hope lol) and Hamilton will do his part to push that car high up the grid. This is a good move for everyone around. except schumi

[truefan72]

I don't see why it may be a bad move on Hamilton's part. He may be tired of the same environment, he may like a new challenge and Mercedes is a works team who will build a everything around him most definitely. Whether they build a good or car or not it remains to be seem but that happens everywhere Ferrari, Red Bull, Renault....

As a fan I love the idea, we will get to see how good he is at dealing with a new team and developing a car/team which is close but not in the top.

I also think Button is the winner here, at least for the next season.

excellent post, and that's and angle had not thought of./ I certainly believe that as of right now mercedes will be building that car around Hamilton, and he will have the entire team at his disposal.

[truefan72]

I don't buy team merchandise as I just wouldn't wear it. I have a Mild Seven Renault shirt from 2005 that I was given signed by Alonso. I also have a Ferrari Marlboro Polo shirt which might be worth money due to tobacco branding too. And finally I have a Force India polo shirt signed by Di Resta and the Hulk that I got for for birthday this year. All were given to me and are sat in my wardrobe gathering dust. It would be too cold to wear any of it at Silverstone in any case lol. :)

lol
its not like I've got a shrine or anything

All I have is a red, black and silver t shirt and a Hamilton hat, all which were purchased 2009 and 2010. I guess I'll stop wearing them on race mornings now ;)

[Tazio]

Congrats' to Mercedes it appears Brawn has pulled off another coup. Best wishes to Lewis on the move that will take him one step closer to a Ferrari ride :p :

[N. Jones]

Wow, I can't see Mercedes becoming a winner just because Hamilton showed up.

BUT, if it does that just means more exciting races for us!

[Storm]

This is big, although looke quite likely since a while back..Perez to McLaren is great for the youngster too.
No such thing as a one-club player in F1 terms, is there. If ever, Hamilton/McLaren was the closest ever.

In all this, MS will be left thinking (yet again) about his ill-fated decision to return to F1

[Tazio]

I seriously can't believe this is true. It goes against everything I have heard and I will be devastated if this happens. I just cannot give it credibility. Jordan is wrong. :s tareup:

[CaptainRaiden]

Wow, I'm still in shock. Didn't expect it honestly, and I was almost 99% sure Mclaren would retain Lewis.

At this point, can't say whether it's a bad move or not. Mclaren has a proven record to come up with good cars every now and then, and judging by this year, and how there's no big rule change next year, I expect them to be a force in 2013.

Lewis is a top tier driver and should be able to at least drag that Mercedes into some decent point finishes even if they come up with a dog of a car. The partnership with Rosberg should be a smooth one, seeing as they already are friends. What is surprising is that Lewis has been complaining about not having a competitive car for some time now. Well, Mclaren have produced better cars than MGP has in the past 3 years. What can Brawn and MGP do in 2013?? Is there something Lewis and his management know, that we don't? Is there another twist in this tale?

Mclaren are now left with two drivers who can't deliver in qualifying, but more than make up for it in the race. I say Checo beats Button, because even though he is new, he has raw speed and a better understanding of Pirellis, something which Button also has, but not in a consistent manner. You never know when you might hear another Button whinge on the radio about understeer, oversteer or no grip. The guy simply has to learn to drive around problems. You can never have a 100% perfect car every race weekend. Look at Alonso!

[N4D13]

I'm calling BS on that. I'm probably just a few hours from being proven wrong, though... but I wanted to say this before going to sleep. :P
Nobody has been mean enough to quote my message, so I'll be doing it myself. I'll go get me a slice of this oh-so-delicious humble pie. :p

http://pippahunnechurch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/humblepie2.gif

[Zico]

Wow, I can't see Mercedes becoming a winner just because Hamilton showed up.

Yep, does everyone really believe that Lewis will be the perfect solution for Merc?... I dont. Not sure how much the top engineers actually earn but I suspect employing the services of Adrian Newey would be the most cost effective option... or could that also be in the pipeline and be the reason that Lewis has jumped ship? Being an engine manufacturer isn't a good enough reason for me.

[Mark]

Long term it looks like a good option too, as Mercedes is using it's own engines, whereas McLaren uses Mercedes customer engines - a deal which may end.

[wedge]

Now its official it wasn't surprising but still a huge blow.

I feel greatly disappointed and my current initial opinion is very immature of wishing MGP of having poor cars as punishment for taking the money and not to mention Simon Fuller's XIX who are apparently taking a huge slice out the deal also.


Long term it looks like a good option too, as Mercedes is using it's own engines, whereas McLaren uses Mercedes customer engines - a deal which may end.

Short-mid term maybe but 2014 can't come soon enough.

I can't help thinking off 1990s Ferrari - good engines but inferior chassis/aero.

Long term option is probably best sticking with McLaren even though I feel Lewis is taking a huge 50/50 gamble.

[Mia 01]

As it stands this season Mercedes is the fifth or sixth best team. If he dosen´t get it this season, an new WDC for Lewis will be very distant. In the end was it the money or the opportunity to build his own brand?

This is going to be very expensive Lewis, an I don´t mean in money.

[kfzmeister]

I hope he wins it and leaves in style

Fat chance.

[kfzmeister]

As it stands this season Mercedes is the fifth or sixth best team. If he dosen´t get it this season, an new WDC for Lewis will be very distant. In the end was it the money or the opportunity to build his own brand?

This is going to be very expensive Lewis, an I don´t mean in money.

What Mercedes and Hamilton are banking on is 2014 when the new regs come in to play and Mercedes should have a hands-up on the new Turbo engine compared to the Independent outfits (McLaren, for one). It makes great sense and he's taking a very calculated risk. I think his chance at a championship at Mercedes is better than McLaren in the coming seasons. Of course McLaren won't be the only team that he will compete against!

[kfzmeister]

I'm calling BS on that. I'm probably just a few hours from being proven wrong, though... but I wanted to say this before going to sleep. :P

Must really suck to wake up to that, huh? :D

[Malbec]

I feel greatly disappointed and my current initial opinion is very immature of wishing MGP of having poor cars as punishment for taking the money and not to mention Simon Fuller's XIX who are apparently taking a huge slice out the deal also.

I'm inclined to agree.

People talk about the dream of dragging a midfield team up to win. The problem is that history shows that this rarely happens and there's a long list of great drivers who have not recovered from leaving top teams to pursue some pipedream and failing.

Like Jacques who put too much trust into his money grabbing and F1 naive manager I think Lewis has been too easily led by his celebrity managers.

Yes I know MS's arrival heralded a long period of domination at Ferrari but what people seem to forget is that poaching him and his cadre of engineers was part of a massive restructuring/reinvestment plan put in by LdM years before the German thought about switching. The only team thats done anything similar recently is RBR and Mercedes falls way short despite the superficial garnish of hiring a load of technical directors and bringing their spending UP to RRA limitations (as opposed to thinking about cutting it down to meet them).

[Malbec]

What Mercedes and Hamilton are banking on is 2014 when the new regs come in to play and Mercedes should have a hands-up on the new Turbo engine compared to the Independent outfits (McLaren, for one).

Really?

As a customer team McLaren are going to receive the dimensions and fitting points of the new engine as well as projected characteristics such as power/torque curves, cooling requirements etc etc very early on in the design process, probably at about the same or similar time to the works team. All teams get this so they can start the design process at about the same stage of the year, ie as soon as the previous season kicks off.

Therefore while I hear talk about how Mercedes is going to be designed around this wonderful new engine so will the cars of all the competing teams using the same unit. They are not going to have a significant advantage in this respect.

[Ninar69]

Let's just hope that Mercedes 'don't do Honda' (or Toyota or BMW) and just pull the plug with no notice.
They are a brand more than a racing outfit. You can't help but question the depth of their commitment, and that they are just one unhappy boardroom meeting away from ducking out.
I'm disappointed with Lewis' lack of loyalty though. He could do with a manager. An individual to guide and advise, rather than the faceless bean-counters he has looking after his 'interests'.
Too harsh?

[wedge]

I'm inclined to agree.

People talk about the dream of dragging a midfield team up to win. The problem is that history shows that this rarely happens and there's a long list of great drivers who have not recovered from leaving top teams to pursue some pipedream and failing.

Like Jacques who put too much trust into his money grabbing and F1 naive manager I think Lewis has been too easily led by his celebrity managers.

Yes I know MS's arrival heralded a long period of domination at Ferrari but what people seem to forget is that poaching him and his cadre of engineers was part of a massive restructuring/reinvestment plan put in by LdM years before the German thought about switching. The only team thats done anything similar recently is RBR and Mercedes falls way short despite the superficial garnish of hiring a load of technical directors and bringing their spending UP to RRA limitations (as opposed to thinking about cutting it down to meet them).

It's clearly a similar project and LH has never struck me as the type to work on such a project. For one thing he lacks patience and he is clearly riled at: not having the best team behind him; Vettel and Newey.

Only thing I will look forward to is polishing turd by 'out driving' the MGP ie. consistently getting the maximum out of the car.

[AndyL]

Really?

As a customer team McLaren are going to receive the dimensions and fitting points of the new engine as well as projected characteristics such as power/torque curves, cooling requirements etc etc very early on in the design process, probably at about the same or similar time to the works team. All teams get this so they can start the design process at about the same stage of the year, ie as soon as the previous season kicks off.

I don't think that's entirely correct. Supposedly the Mercedes team already have this information, indeed they were probably involved in specifying it, whereas the customer teams won't be getting it until early next year. But ultimately all the teams will be getting the same engine, and I doubt Mercedes have done any serious design work on the 2014 car yet, so yes any benefit to the works team is likely to be very small.

[Mia 01]

Is Nico good at developing F1 cars, then the car must have been bad from the beginning over the years.

Lewis as a good developer of F1 cars, well, I hope he proves me wrong.

[kfzmeister]

Really?

As a customer team McLaren are going to receive the dimensions and fitting points of the new engine as well as projected characteristics such as power/torque curves, cooling requirements etc etc very early on in the design process, probably at about the same or similar time to the works team. All teams get this so they can start the design process at about the same stage of the year, ie as soon as the previous season kicks off.

Therefore while I hear talk about how Mercedes is going to be designed around this wonderful new engine so will the cars of all the competing teams using the same unit. They are not going to have a significant advantage in this respect.

The difference is actually a number of months. So, no, not only will McLaren have to wait for the engines, they will also not have intricate details of the engine itself, like Mercedes who researches, designs and builds. If you really think that McLaren is not at a disadvantage, you are naive.

[donKey jote]

Well it's official:
Schu to continue at Merc, so Ham will stay at McLaren .

Marca (http://www.marca.com/2012/09/11/motor/formula1/1347352880.html) say so so it must be true :andrea:

On the other hand: Marca are usually wrong :erm: :arrows: :p

way to go marca :laugh:

[donKey jote]

And we should have at least a grudging nod towards my countryman in the ridiculous shirt...

:up:

bit of crow pie for all the eejut's critics :laugh:

[donKey jote]

I have a Mild Seven Renault shirt from 2005 that I was given signed by Alonso. ... sat in my wardrobe gathering dust.

err, ever thought about putting it to good use? Like donating it to a donkey charity or something ? ;) :andrea: :p

[Firstgear]

I was thinking (and hoping) Lewis would make the move. The Mercedes is better than Nico & MS are showing, so Lewis will be fine there. Also, it's usually not a good idea to stay with your first employer for too long. You're always thought of as a junior no matter how long you've been there, because that was the first impression you gave. So I think Lewis will get alot more respect when giving his opinions at Mercedes because he arrives as a champion.

Perez to McLaren. Wow, that was a surprise. Congrats to him, I hope he does really well.

[Mia 01]

I understand Lewis, theres moore to it than WDC :s .

A famous world known Brand is not bad.

[Mia 01]

Agree, a bit of freedom can be good but it´s also important to win sometime. Or is that not the goal, singing as JV might be good.

[Malbec]

The difference is actually a number of months. So, no, not only will McLaren have to wait for the engines, they will also not have intricate details of the engine itself, like Mercedes who researches, designs and builds. If you really think that McLaren is not at a disadvantage, you are naive.

I'm sure there will be a disadvantage but I think people like yourself overstate it.

Ultimately I don't see how the new engine regulations in 2014 will result in Mercedes joining the frontrunners magically. Other factors maybe but Mercedes has some way to go and a lot of investment to make before their team is on a par with McLaren, RBR and Ferrari in terms of engineering resources and expertise.

[kfzmeister]

I'm sure there will be a disadvantage but I think people like yourself overstate it.

Ultimately I don't see how the new engine regulations in 2014 will result in Mercedes joining the frontrunners magically. Other factors maybe but Mercedes has some way to go and a lot of investment to make before their team is on a par with McLaren, RBR and Ferrari in terms of engineering resources and expertise.

We've seen some pretty incredible things in F1 from one season to the next. I'll just mention Brawn '09. I don't think the engine advantage is too far fetched, especially if Mercedes get it right on the money. They've had THE engine for a number of years now, performance wise and reliability wise.
The other thing that puts the advantage on Mercedes is that we don't even know what McLaren will use next. Their gig with Mercedes is up, either next year or after. :)

[BDunnell]

We've seen some pretty incredible things in F1 from one season to the next. I'll just mention Brawn '09.

But, as many have said, when the full facts are considered Brawn's success in 2009 isn't nearly so incredible.

[F1boat]

I was thinking (and hoping) Lewis would make the move. The Mercedes is better than Nico & MS are showing, so Lewis will be fine there. Also, it's usually not a good idea to stay with your first employer for too long. You're always thought of as a junior no matter how long you've been there, because that was the first impression you gave.

I think that this is the main reason for the move.

[zako85]

We've seen some pretty incredible things in F1 from one season to the next. I'll just mention Brawn '09. I don't think the engine advantage is too far fetched, especially if Mercedes get it right on the money. They've had THE engine for a number of years now, performance wise and reliability wise.
The other thing that puts the advantage on Mercedes is that we don't even know what McLaren will use next. Their gig with Mercedes is up, either next year or after. :)

McLaren confirmed Merc engine use until 2015. 2016 it too far away to start scheming about future, but if Mercedes doesn't sell them its engines in 2016, I assume Renault will be the next obvious choice. Renault was one of the companies that pushed hard for the new engine rules. They wouldn't have done it if these didn't have the confidence to build a competitive engine.

[zako85]

I wonder where this will leave Sauber.. Perez was certainly their star driver.

[N. Jones]

Long term it looks like a good option too, as Mercedes is using it's own engines, whereas McLaren uses Mercedes customer engines - a deal which may end.

I read somewhere that the deal is going to end in 2015. I will admit that is a long way from now and anything can happen.

[kfzmeister]

But, as many have said, when the full facts are considered Brawn's success in 2009 isn't nearly so incredible.

Yeah, not sure that i want to start discussing Brawn now, but point was that a winter can swing the pendulum into an unexpected teams favor very easily. Remember Honda '08-winter-Brawn '09? Who really knows how well Mercedes can get on with it in 2013?

[BDunnell]

Yeah, not sure that i want to start discussing Brawn now, but point was that a winter can swing the pendulum into an unexpected teams favor very easily. Remember Honda '08-winter-Brawn '09?

Yes — that's exactly what I mean. All the ingredients for success were, when you considered the matter, there. Will they be at Merc?

[Malbec]

Yeah, not sure that i want to start discussing Brawn now, but point was that a winter can swing the pendulum into an unexpected teams favor very easily. Remember Honda '08-winter-Brawn '09? Who really knows how well Mercedes can get on with it in 2013?

I'm not sure where you're going with this.

The 08 Honda was poor partly because it was undeveloped with development switching to the 09 car instead, Honda essentially spent two seasons developing what became the Brawn 001 using a lot of their Japanese research resources. The Brawn 001 was the single most expensive car to develop in F1 history and shoehorning a Merc engine aside I don't see the miracle there that you clearly do.

Nor do I see any evidence of Mercedes flooding Brackley with either their money or resources. Remember that they underfunded the team once they took over and have only recently brought spending up to RRA limits. Teams like McLaren have been spending over the RRA limits.

Ultimately in F1 the better resourced teams win and keep winning with poorly managed teams like Toyota put to one side. There are few miracles in F1 once you look beyond the facade and fairytales the press love to portray.

[steveaki13]

Firstly a question. Henners and truefan I noticed you stated "Strange not to be supporting Mclaren anymore" Could you not support both? Lewis at Mercedes as your fav driver and Mclaren as a good team? Seems sad to forget all about Mclaren.

Anyway, I am happy for Lewis. It felt like he needed a fresh challenge and he will have one. I do think Mercedes have the potential too make it in F1, however like all manufactorurs they dont care for F1 and will leave soon if they dont see results.

I think this move provides some amazing key moments in many F1 careers.

For Lewis he has to make a go of it and prove he is committed to Mercedes and help drive them forward.

For Rosberg he has always been critised for never having proved once and for all his ability. Lets face it at Williams after his debut season, he had poor teammates and now at Mercedes he has beaten Schumi, but maybe Schumi isn't as good as he was first time around.
For the first time he will compete against one of the best and once and for all we will know just how good Nico is. Beat and rival Hamilton then he is up there with the best, but get smashed and his career may not recover.

For Button - As I said elsewhere, Button needs to lead Mclaren and finish well ahead of Sergio in year one to prove Mclaren have a champion still

As for Perez - This is a dream chance and he will need to take it and not do a Kovalainen and to a Ok job but no more.

I cant wait to see how all these things pan out.

[kfzmeister]

I'm not sure where you're going with this.

Do Not count out Mercedes next year as a serious contender to the title.

[TheFamousEccles]

Velkom to ze mitfeelt, Mr Hammilton. Ve hef bin expekting you... ;)

[jarrambide]

I wonder where this will leave Sauber.. Perez was certainly their star driver.

I feel bad for Sauber, I like Peter Sauber and have always supported Sauber (except for the few years they stopped being an independent team, nothing against BMW, but the only reason I liked Sauber is that I love underdogs that perform), on the other hand, I have always been a huge McLaren fan, I don't like Hamilton, sonow I can stop feeling guilty about supporting McLaren.

Will Sauber use the other TELMEX driver racing on GP2?, Esteban Gutierrez could be a good driver and Sauber could really use that money TELMEX has been supplying, but if part of the McLaren deal is getting a lot of money from TELMEX, that means no chance of Sauber keeping that TELMEX sponsorship.

[The Black Knight]

I think this is a good move for Hamilton. He obviously needed a fresh challenge and I think he has done the right thing. This move will see him become his own man and eventually the most complete driver on the grid.

[Tazio]

SpongeBob seems to see the positive in it:

(Reuters) / 29 September 2012

LONDON - Lewis Hamilton’s Formula One switch from McLaren to Mercedes next year is an essential step that could be the making of him as a man, former McLaren driver David Coulthard said on Saturday.

The Scot, who started his career at Williams and ended it with Red Bull, wrote in a Daily Telegraph column that he felt the 2008 world champion had grown out of McLaren and had to make a move.

“Sometimes relationships just reach their natural conclusion,” he said.

“You don’t live your whole life at home, even though the fridge is always full and the laundry gets done for you. At some stage you have to move out. Grow up. Become a man. This is that moment for Lewis.”

Sport - Hamilton move part of growing up: Coulthard (http://www.khaleejtimes.com/sport/inside_sport.asp?xfile=/data/formula1/2012/September/formula1_September23.xml&section=formula1&col=)

[fandango]

SpongeBob seems to see the positive in it:

Sport - Hamilton move part of growing up: Coulthard (http://www.khaleejtimes.com/sport/inside_sport.asp?xfile=/data/formula1/2012/September/formula1_September23.xml§ion=formula1&col=)

Interesting that Coulthard would say that. He was in a similar position at McLaren for many seasons. Perhaps he looks back now and wishes he had left them sooner, rather than playing it safe with the team most likely to produce the best car. At times he wasn't completely satisfied at McLaren, but where was he going to go?

[zako85]

Yeah, not sure that i want to start discussing Brawn now, but point was that a winter can swing the pendulum into an unexpected teams favor very easily. Remember Honda '08-winter-Brawn '09? Who really knows how well Mercedes can get on with it in 2013?


Formula one does have its "dark horse becomes champion moments" but those are once in a decade events. If you look past Brawn, you would have to go back to 1994 when Schumacher wins his first WDC in a Benetton-Ford. Ax ante, the team was widely regarded as inferior to McLaren and Williams, as well as its engine. No one expected Schumacher to win a WDC.

In any case, if Mercedes beats McLaren next year, I wouldn't consider that as a completely unexpected event. Mercedes is a well-funded, well-staffed team with a good engine. What's unexpected is that it ended up contending for the best of the rest title for the past three years. Somehow, their "formula" hasn't borne many fruits. They clearly are having a major shake up, and Hamilton's move is the proof of that. If Mercedes kept its current driver lineup for 2013, I honestly would have stopped regarding them as a serious team.

[GravettFan99]

Well, for Lewis it may be a slight step down, and I think Schumacher has definitely retired rather than trying to search for another ride. (Someone said that he may look for another ride on another forum, but I doubt that.) However, I am happy for Sergio Perez, he's already taken 3 podiums with Sauber, so to be moving to McLaren is an awesome turn of events for him, that's a definite gain on the grid! It also ends the speculation that Massa will be replaced by him, and maybe the whole rumour in general... then again, someone else may get the drive from Massa. (I'd hate that to happen to Massa, but it would be inevitable. ;( ) With Lewis's calibre, I think Nico may also get a slight gain in terms of setups/feedback and all.

[darkos]

Weird decision. McLaren equal money offer for him to keep him in McLaren team so this is really weird decision.

[darkos]

Now we will see true Hamilton face. If he's can put some input in new team. Something from himself, because on McLaren it wasn't so great.

[zako85]

Weird decision. McLaren equal money offer for him to keep him in McLaren team so this is really weird decision.

I think the arguments for and against Hamilton/McLaren split are both valid. On one hand, McLaren is a real F1 stalwart and the second most decorated F1 team in history. Their car has been arguably among the fastest if not the fastest since about this time of last year. On the other hand, McLaren accounted for only one WDC in the last 10 years and no WCC. Mediocre pit stops cost Hamilton valuable points in the WDC this year, but the car failing on him mid-race in Singapore probably was the last straw. This effectively knocked him out of WDC competition. Regardless of whether it's fair to place all of the blame for this on McLaren, this must have been the perfect time to announce their split. I don't think Hamilton would have announced his split with McLaren had he won the last race and still was a title contender today.

[truefan72]

i tend to agree with this assessment

[Tazio]

Interesting that Coulthard would say that. He was in a similar position at McLaren for many seasons. Perhaps he looks back now and wishes he had left them sooner, rather than playing it safe with the team most likely to produce the best car. At times he wasn't completely satisfied at McLaren, but where was he going to go?
I can't put DC in the same category as LH, he was of the talent of (roughly) JB IMO, and so his issues were maybe a little different although your point is well taken as DC may have wished he left earlier. John Watson and Damon Hill seem to be in agreement with DC. I'm guessing there are a few veteran drivers that may also agree with DC but are not commenting as they don't want to bring controversy into their racing agenda during the season. JMHO

Lewis Hamilton right to move, say Damon Hill and David Coulthard | McLaren | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN F1 (http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsport/story/90276.html?CMP=OTC-RSS)

[andyone]

but now he will be racing for Mercedes, I will support him there. :)
Same here mate. ill shift teams with hamilton.. i like perez as well so ill be with mclaren as well.

[AndyL]

Weird decision. McLaren equal money offer for him to keep him in McLaren team so this is really weird decision.

They may have offered equal salary, but with Mercedes he will be getting more freedom to exploit his own "brand," and that's where the real money is. At least, it will be if things work out as his management are planning. No doubt by next Christmas there will be an aftershave with his name on it and we'll all be able to smell like Lewis Hamilton.

[wedge]

I can't put DC in the same category as LH, he was of the talent of (roughly) JB IMO, and so his issues were maybe a little different although your point is well taken as DC may have wished he left earlier. John Watson and Damon Hill seem to be in agreement with DC. I'm guessing there are a few veteran drivers that may also agree with DC but are not commenting as they don't want to bring controversy into their racing agenda during the season. JMHO

Lewis Hamilton right to move, say Damon Hill and David Coulthard | McLaren | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN F1 (http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsport/story/90276.html?CMP=OTC-RSS)

McLaren exist to win so they tend to go for drivers at their peak/offer great potential so they rarely hang to veterans.

I'm not so sure about the freedoms he might get at MGP. PR BS is often moaned about yet LH is a driver who would need it most.

The challenge of bringing MGP as winners is one worth relishing yet this isn't the 1990s. We have a golden generation and I feel LH does not have the patience for a Shumi/Ferrari-esque project.

[andyone]

Hamilton seems to have many enemies compared to other drivers no matter how good he is.. people ignore the talent... makes me wonder. Why??? This guy has broken many records and he is good if you follow F1. Will see what people will say when he starts winning with the Mercedes

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Bagwan]

I think this was about a lot of things , but money wasn't really one of the larger items .

Lewis is already rich beyond any of our dreams .

He was groomed for the position , with both parties keeping each other happy along the way .

Stardom occurred , and now he has "handlers" , which , I'm pretty sure , can't be comfortable for either party .
Those "handlers" are proof of a lack of trust that they have with his mouth .
His recent faux pas with the telemetry , I'm sure , stretched the issue into a real problem .
He didn't trust them to explain his lack of speed in comparison to Jenson , and so , did so himself .

With no trust between them , Mercedes had only to make an offer .

Of course , we don't know the details , but one can easily imagine a few .
There's that trophy thing . I'm sure that's workable .
There's the prospect of working with Ross , something the red shoe did , building a team .
It's essentially a works start-up , with Merc only having taken over just a couple of years ago .
It's also an engine maker he's been with for his whole career , so some continuity is also present .

To have jumped on board also sounds like they perhaps let him in on some idea of what the budget might be , and the commitment the company has towards turning Merc into a winning outfit once again .
In fact , I believe his signing is the best sign that Merc will be with us for a while , and that they will be at the sharp end consistently .

This is great for Lewis , and even better for the sport as a whole .

[wedge]

Hamilton seems to have many enemies compared to other drivers no matter how good he is.. people ignore the talent... makes me wonder. Why??? This guy has broken many records and he is good if you follow F1. Will see what people will say when he starts winning with the Mercedes

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Enemies is the wrong word nor the best interpretation of constructive criticism made by posters

Nobody will deny that LH is a wonderfully gifted driver capable and proven driving feats but out of a race car there are elements that are left to be desired.

[wedge]

Its one thing saying he's gifted in the car but his reputation out of the car is negative, but how many of those who regularly criticize him actually differentiate between the two?

You could say the same with Senna, Schumi, Alonso. Driven to win and how corruptive it is. More than an annoyance it can be immensely disliked and used for an axe to grind - Schumi and this year's tyres being a prime example.

[andyone]

His attitude sometimes stinks which is a weakness as he would be a lot harder to criticize if he didn't give the fans any ammo. :)

Sometime attitude is brought by other people. If people just hate you coz ur good. When he was with Alonso as a rookie and was beating Alonso the champ in the same car.. many people didn't like it. That brought bad attitude even if its you??? Imagine that.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Bagwan]

Hamilton is certainly not alone in history and Schuey had his fair share of criticism back in the days when he was a top driver too. Lewis is just the most hated of this generation, but much of that has to do with the threat he brought from the very off IMO. His attitude sometimes stinks which is a weakness as he would be a lot harder to criticize if he didn't give the fans any ammo. :)

I guess Nico is a quiet enough guy to maybe help to calm down that stinky attitude of his , but I wish it was the shoe he was going to be driving with next year . He'd have been a great mentor for Lewis .

There can be no denial that Lewis is a great driver with superb car control .

I think he just needs to feel he is in the loop , rather than having things kept from him .
What I mean by this is to say that once the handlers were put in place , to keep him from saying silly things , it's logical to presume that they would , at least somewhat , try to hold back some of the more sensitive information , to ensure the silly things weren't costly .

It's not a big step of logic to think , as I have postulated before , that the info leak was both a test of his loyalty , and a bagaining ploy in contract negotiations .

I'd like him a lot more if he didn't say such stupid crap , and , likely , so would you . It must be hard defending him all the time . I feel for ya , man .

I hope the Merc is a contender so he can show his stuff , as he will surely be furiously motivated to show this move wasn't a horrible mistake .

[F1boat]

Lewis is just the most hated of this generation

Vettel is also hated by many people, as well as Alonso and now Button. All top drivers are hated except maybe Kimi.

[kfzmeister]

Vettel is also hated by many people, as well as Alonso and now Button. All top drivers are hated except maybe Kimi.

It would be a great day if Kimster won another one by a single point in the last race, while the others just destroyed themselves,.............or accidentally engaged the start procedure again. :D

[F1boat]

Not to the extent of Lewis. It's a clear trend on the mainstream discussion forums. Maybe it's just the British based ones? I only use 3 and they are all British.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, I don't know, I think that different people like and hate different drivers... I don't think that Lewis is more hated or more liked than Seb or Alonso... it is pretty even IMO

[donKey jote]

Vettel is also hated by many people, as well as Alonso and now Button.

Who hates Button? :cornfused:

[steveaki13]

Lewis does seem to get more attention than most and has since his F1 career started. .

Its a combined affect I think. When he came into F1 some just didn't like him (as all drivers have a number of if you like Anti- Fans), but Lewis had more than the normal level, because he came into a championship winning car and for whatever reason it seemed to put some peoples noses out of joint. It is almost expected that a driver battles his way up F1s ladder and through a few lower teams to reach a shot at a race winning car which most never get. This seemed to be an element of it from day one, plus his off track attitude at times (only at times), hasnt helped him, also his on track mistakes, a bit like Schumi. Great driver but does have a few incidents and that always gives some people a reason to hate, even if it is part of racing hard.

[F1boat]

Who hates Button? :cornfused:
Many fans of Lewis. But maybe not in this forum.

[Knock-on]

I think you have to go a long way to find a Button hater thankfully.

[Hawkmoon]

I think you have to go a long way to find a Button hater thankfully.

I don't think Button has been successful enough to engender the type of hate reserved for the likes of Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton and Schumacher.

To Button's credit he also doesn't do things on and off that track that are worth getting worked up about. The same can't be said for the others.

[Koz]

Who hates Button? :cornfused:

Shame St Devote didn't stick around :(

[Tazio]

The challenge of bringing MGP as winners is one worth relishing yet this isn't the 1990s. We have a golden generation and I feel LH does not have the patience for a Shumi/Ferrari-esque project.
You may well be right; however in Lewis's own words that is precisely what he says he wants to do:

“I don’t know what is going to happen. I just know that everyone has to experience these things, working with new people and in new environments.

“That is just part of growing up. It’s my last step of independence I guess.

“It wasn’t about Ross . It wasn’t about Niki [Lauda, Mercedes-Benz vice-chairman]. It was about Mercedes, a team which has not been that successful over the last couple of years.

[b]“I know some of the greats have gone from a great car to not such a great car and have helped to develop a winning team. Michael [Schumacher], for instance, went from being a world champion to Ferrari. We haven’t really got any other driver in Formula One who is known for that. I hope that one day someone can say that about me.”
I guess we will just have to see how that works out for him/them.