Hamilton to Mercedes - Confirmed

[wedge]

I think you have to go a long way to find a Button hater thankfully.

Always moaning about tyre temperatures and never his fault (driving style).

[zako85]

How many have thought about drawing parallels between Hamilton's move to Mercedes next year and Schumacher's move to Ferrari in 1996? Ex post, few would disagree now that this was the move of his lifetime for Schumachers. However, in 1996, the benefits of moving to Ferrari, besides the higher salary, were quite debatable.

Like McLaren, Benneton Formula nursed Schumacher from his first full-time Formula 1 season in 1992. Like Hamilton, Schumacher was an instant sensation from the very beginning. He took a podium in his second race for Benetton. In his first year, he accounted for 8 podiums and a win at Spa. He finished 3rd in WDC. Next year, he took a podium in every race that he finished and another win. In 1994 and 1995 he won the WDC outright. With the help of dominant Renault engines, Benetton also won WCC in 1995.

Next, Schumacher moves to Ferrari for 1996 season while Ferrari's Alesi moves to Benetton. At that time, Ferrari was hardly considered a successful car or team. Before Schumacher, their last WDC was from the 70s and no WCC wins since 1983. From 1991 through 1996, Ferrari cars accounted for only two wins, including Alesi's maiden and only win in 1995 in Canada (again, it's hard not to draw a parallel between him and Rosberg at Mercedes here). Disgruntled, Alesi left Ferrari to drive for the highly accomplished Benetton team as Michael was going to Ferrari. How many could have predicted before the 1996 season that Benetton was going to take a sharp nose drive, while Ferrari will start getting better and better each season?

[F1boat]

We have to wait and see whether Hamilton can inspire the team in the way Michael did and whether he has the patience to wait at least a few years in order to win the championship with Mercedes.

[Garry Walker]

Well, risky by Lewis. I am getting a certain Villeneuve and BAR feeling here. Obviously financially Lewis will gain a lot here, but will he be able to win races? This year Mercedes has been great at 2 tracks, most of the time it has sucked bigtime. LH, in his prime, is better than Rosberg and MS are now, but not by that much. I fear a very frustrating year for Hamilton in 2013.

All very good points, but I think it has to be said that, within the living F1 fathers, approaches are very different indeed. The stories of how Nelson Piquet acted when his son first tested for Williams compared with Keke Rosberg suggests to me that not all can be categorised together. This presumably, therefore, goes for the performances of their sons, too. What you say may be mere coincidence.
What did Piquet do?


We have to wait and see whether Hamilton can inspire the team in the way Michael did and whether he has the patience to wait at least a few years in order to win the championship with Mercedes.

This inspiring talk is crap. There is nothing the driver can do when the engineers and managers are not doing their job properly. This is the case at Mercedes now.

[F1boat]

This inspiring talk is crap. There is nothing the driver can do when the engineers and managers are not doing their job properly. This is the case at Mercedes now.

He couldn't, but I think that the mechanics and the team of Ferrari loved Michael and worked with pleasure and dedication to achieve their common goals.

[Garry Walker]

He couldn't, but I think that the mechanics and the team of Ferrari loved Michael and worked with pleasure and dedication to achieve their common goals.

I am sure they did, but in the end, the guys back at the factory who design those cars will not do their job better just because "they love him" - it just doesn't work that way.
Ferrari had the dream team in place, because they had Jean Todt as the team boss, who I think is the best team boss of all time in F1. They had the awesome pair of Rory Byrne and Ross Brawn and then they had the best driver of the field in Schumacher.
Ross Brawn as a team boss is not on the level of Todt nor does he have the level of engineering brilliance availaible
Todt had at Ferrari.

[Malbec]

I am sure they did, but in the end, the guys back at the factory who design those cars will not do their job better just because "they love him" - it just doesn't work that way.
Ferrari had the dream team in place, because they had Jean Todt as the team boss, who I think is the best team boss of all time in F1. They had the awesome pair of Rory Byrne and Ross Brawn and then they had the best driver of the field in Schumacher.
Ross Brawn as a team boss is not on the level of Todt nor does he have the level of engineering brilliance availaible
Todt had at Ferrari.

Lets not forget also the solid political and financial support they got from Luca which is nothing like the might do, might not do attitude expressed by Daimler Benz. The guys at Ferrari knew they could sacrifice a little in the short term as long as they got to deliver in the long term because of the level of security they felt. The guys at Brackley are not so fortunate.

[Koz]

Its also worth remembering that Michael joined at the very beginning of the Mercedes project and many changes have been made at Brackley with more and more money coming in. I've no doubt they will get better and Michael can be proud he has helped turn this team into something for the future. I'd love to see him remain as a member of the team and would love to see him working with Lewis behind the scenes next year. :)

More and more coming in?

The money ended in 2008/9 with Honda's exit.
All I have ever heard or read is that Merc is providing less and less to the team. And of course all those rumours we have been hearing about Merc's withdrawal.

Hamilton is worth more than his driving abilities alone - his relationship with that Pussy Cat Doll is worth a lot too. He is being marketed as a celebrity-superstar, not surprisingly he has the same manager as Beckham.
But go look for Beckham now, he's playing in a second rate league just like Lewis will be driving a second rate car next year, perhaps?

[The Black Knight]

I think its very clear from Hamilton's persona that he isn't just interested in the money. He could have stayed at McLaren for the same amount of cash. His thirst for winning is still very much there and maybe Mercedes seemed like the better long term option? I'm not expecting Lewis to be winning every race next year, but it would be naive to assume the order never changes in F1. Your post is very much in the past tense and non of us know what the future holds. I'm sure Lewis would have discussed next years car with Ross during his negotiation.

I honestly believe this will be a good move for Hamilton in the long run. I think Mercedes are going to be a force to be reckoned with, especially in 2014 and 2015. It's really going to be a very interesting saga to see how it develops. As said already, he needed to remove the diapers and become his own man. I believe this is the final part of that process and he can now develop further as an individual and a driver. Alonso had some great comments on it actually and I agree with him that this is a good move for Hammy.

[Mark]

As I said above, Hamilton has been with McLaren since he was a little lad. Sometimes it's time to move on.

[Knock-on]

In F1, as in everyday life, you need new challenges or you lose inspiration.

Lewis will do well at Meredes. He knows the team well from their close association as a engine supplier and until recently, the 2 companies were very closly aligned.

Mercedes also will do well with Lewis. Since their return to F1 as a manufacturer, they have had 2 drivers that have not delivered. Nico has done a reasonable job but Michael has woefully underperformed and Mercedes may have been guilty of expecting Schumys reputation to deliver some sort of magic which is frankly a nonsense.

So, they both have a clean start and if Mercedes seriously commit to a sustained program to develop a championship winning car, then Lewis will fight tooth and nail to get it there. The car isn't as bad as the two current drivers would have you believe and I think Lewis will be close to the pace from the beginning of the 2013 season. In fact, Lewis will do to Nico what Nico has done to Michael IMHO.

Lets wait and see.

[Garry Walker]

. In fact, Lewis will do to Nico what Nico has done to Michael IMHO.
.
Get outqualified you mean?

[Knock-on]

Get outqualified you mean?

No, demolish him in the only thing that matters; POINTS!!

For 2 out of 3 years, Schumacher has been just about the worst performing team mate out there and I'm surprised Mercedes didn't realise the egg was all over them and forcibly evict his ass.

[F1boat]

Lewis has stated that he doesn't expect any victories in 2013. He expects success to come in 2014 and 2015. So he has a realistic approach.
Knock-on, I disagree with you. Michael had a bad season in 2010, was a bit better in 2011 and have drove pretty well in 2012, but had an enormous amount of technical problems, far more than even Lewis in the McLaren. For me Lewis will go faster than Michael, because he is younger and in his prime, but if he is close to the leader it will be because the Mercedes has improved. If he goes to Mercedes for the last races of this season he won't be much faster than either Michael or Nico. IMO, of course.

[AndyL]

Lewis has stated that he doesn't expect any victories in 2013. He expects success to come in 2014 and 2015. So he has a realistic approach.

I think he's being a little pessemistic. If Rosberg can win in a Mercedes I'm sure Hamilton can. Of course we have no idea how good the 2013 car will be, but I reckon Hamilton has a decent chance of getting at least one win next year.

[Garry Walker]

No, demolish him in the only thing that matters; POINTS!!

For 2 out of 3 years, Schumacher has been just about the worst performing team mate out there and I'm surprised Mercedes didn't realise the egg was all over them and forcibly evict his ass.

I am sure you are clever enough to know and see how much **** has happened to MS this year. Sure he has made a few mistakes, but when we look at the speed, then he has usually been faster than Nico in Q and at least as fast in races. There is nothing wrong with his performances this year. He has had 5 retirements due to car failure, been rammed out by Grosjean and suffered a failure of the car in the Q, which obviously ruined his race as well.

[zako85]

Mercedes should have used the opportunity to sign Raikkonen in 2010. It's a shame that Kimi spent 2010-11 seasons without an F1 seat. I think he would have done well. Look at him this year. He is one of the unsung heroes of 2012. Fast and consistent, quite comparable to Alonso. He would have been in the title fight right now if Lotus cars had the raw speed to qualify better. Hands down my favorite driver right now. I don't know what Mercedes were betting on when signing Schumacher for 2010.

[driveace]

I also believe that McLaren have lost a tremendous asset too.They think too highly of Button,and he hardly delivers!
If Button wins another WDC with McLaren I will bare my behind in Woolworths window !!

[gloomyDAY]

http://i.imgur.com/4q8vP.png

[F1boat]

Domenicali: McLaren has lost a tremendous asset (http://www.forumula1.com/news/domenicali-mclaren-has-lost-a-tremendous-asset/)

Stefano is kind. Helmut Marko was a lot more brutal and said that for next year Red Bull has two rivals less - Lewis and McLaren. Which is a bit arrogant, I have to say.

[wedge]

Not a good stint in East Asia:


In keeping with previous years, Hamilton had booked a bowling alley in Suzuka for the Saturday night of the Japanese Grand Prix, where he had intended to say a few words about his impending departure, but was forced to cancel when a number of the team went on a charity track run with his McLaren team-mate Jenson Button instead.

“I booked 16 lanes at the bowling alley for Saturday night, but something else came up so the guys weren’t able to do it,” Hamilton explained.

Korean Grand Prix 2012: Lewis Hamilton loses out to Jenson Button in his race to say his goodbyes at McLaren - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/9606665/Korean-Grand-Prix-2012-Lewis-Hamilton-loses-out-to-Jenson-Button-in-his-race-to-say-his-goodbyes-at-McLaren.html)

[Mark]

Talk about being snubbed.

[F1boat]

With the rumours circulating that Vettel has signed for Ferrari in 2014 I think Helmut will be smiling less in future. It is certainly an arrogant statement, but all teams do it to wind up the opposition.
Unless they have a replacement for Seb... Raikkonen, maybe.

[steveaki13]

Poor Lewis. I feel sorry for him.

I really hope Mercedes produce a good car next year like the 2009 brawn and Lewis has a chance to push flat out and have a shot at the title.

Would be so nice to see him with a smile on his face again.

As for the rest, by 2014 we could see an amazing line up. Lewis & Nico Mercedes, Alonso & Vettel Ferrari would be great, Button & Perez Mclaren & Red BUll ?? Webber might be a bit old by then.

[zako85]

Poor Lewis. I feel sorry for him.

I really hope Mercedes produce a good car next year like the 2009 brawn and Lewis has a chance to push flat out and have a shot at the title.

Would be so nice to see him with a smile on his face again.

As for the rest, by 2014 we could see an amazing line up. Lewis & Nico Mercedes, Alonso & Vettel Ferrari would be great, Button & Perez Mclaren & Red BUll ?? Webber might be a bit old by then.

If Vettel's seat is vacated, RBR, who have no clear replacement for him, could become an attractive team for a disgruntled high flier. I can see Kimi Raikkonen, Alonso, or Hamilton start longing for that seat if things don't go well for at least one of them in 2013.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Do you think Red Bull will be as attractive to the drivers you have mentioned considering its highly likely Newey will be leaving in the next few years? He's hinted about stepping away from F1 to follow new challenges like designing racing yachts and was only kept on after a massive pay rise. I think Red Bull will be a very different team in 3 or 4 years time.

The rumour about designing racing yachts already surfaced during his stint at McLaren. What stands out, though is that Newey left Williams after a few years, then McLaren after 8 or 9 years and he's now been 6 years at RB, so I guess he'll soon be off for good or off to a different team again.
I think Red Bull will stay attractive to other drivers, as Newey is by no means as head and shoulders above his fellow designers any more in comparison to the late nineties, when Rory Byrne was the only designer to keep up with him. In fact this years RB8 didn't exactly start out as the car to beat. The early season McLaren had the upper hand and it took him until the second half of the season to put the car at the pointy end of the pack again. I think he's still the designer to have, but he's by no means irreplacable

[wedge]

I've always had a sneaking suspicion (I'm an armchair critic cum internet nobody) that expansion and signing a number of big names might be a problem even for Ross Brawn as big chief but it seems it could well be the case as raised by Gary Anderson:


I've been speaking to a few of the guys there and they say there are so many people that nobody makes any decisions any more.

It's only three years since the same team - then called Brawn - won the championship.

OK, they had lots of Honda money to develop the car and the secret weapon of the 'double diffuser', and it wouldn't have happened without that. But back then it was a one-man band with Ross Brawn leading the team - and then, when Honda pulled out and they cut the workforce back, it was even more like that.

Now, after a major recruitment programme, they have a multi-man band and there are four guys in there who have been technical directors at other teams all doing different roles.

Meanwhile, Red Bull have Adrian Newey. He has a great team of people around him but he is the captain of the ship.

Brawn argues that everyone at Mercedes has defined roles and knows what they're supposed to be doing and the parameters of their responsibility.

But you have to look at their slide in performance after a promising start to this season and say something is going badly wrong there.

BBC Sport - Gary Anderson column: Red Bull's Sebastian Vettel favourite for title (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19941812)

[AndyL]

I've always had a sneaking suspicion (I'm an armchair critic cum internet nobody) that expansion and signing a number of big names might be a problem even for Ross Brawn as big chief but it seems it could well be the case as raised by Gary Anderson:

It's the classic big-company problem isn't it. Too many meetings, too little action. A problem that has afflicted well-funded manufacturer teams in the past.

[CaptainRaiden]

I got curious and was looking at qualifying grids and comparison between Rosberg and Button from this year's races.

Here's the data I got from F1 Fanatic: 2012 F1 qualifying data - F1 Fanatic (http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/statistics/2012-f1-statistics/qualifying-data/)


Average AUS MAL CHI BAH SPA MON CAN EUR BRI GER HUN BEL ITA SIN JAP KOR

Jenson Button 6.63 2 2 5 4 10 12 10 9 16 6 4 1 2 4 8 11

Nico Rosberg 9.06 7 7 1 5 6 2 5 6 11 21 13 23 6 10 13 9


Nico was doing quite well until Germany, outqualifying Button in a supposedly inferior Mercedes, leading the score at 6-3. He's either making that Mercedes look better than it is or Button is making that Mclaren look really bad, at least in qualifying. Apart from his dominant victory at China this year, Rosberg really doesn't strike me as a top tier driver, especially when it comes to his race pace.

Of course it all went downhill for Nico and Mercedes from Germany onwards, because of a couple of unforeseen circumstances and also Mercedes starting to lose the development battle to the front running teams.

I would rate Nico and Button as equal talent wise. Seeing how Lewis destroyed Button in qualifying this year, I would rate him higher than both of them. A lot of ifs and buts, but I think Mercedes had a good car this year, and were let down by their drivers. I think Lewis might have done a much better job with that car and MIGHT have a realistic shot at the title next year.

Pure speculation of course. :D