2013 Silly Season

[Ranger]

So here is what we have for next year:

Red Bull - Vettel / Webber
Nothing to see here.
McLaren - _____ / Button
Hamilton extremely likely to sign, he just hasn't done so yet.
Ferrari - Alonso / ____
Massa is IMO likely to re-sign for Ferrari. They still gave him the gig after his 2010 and 2011 seasons, so what's the difference?
Lotus - Raikkonen / ____
If D'Ambrosio impresses this weekend then Grosjean is on serious notice. I definitely think Grosjean will finish the season regardless of anything D'Ambrosio does but next year is uncertain.
Mercedes - Rosberg / ____
Schumacher should re-sign on the strength of his current form, IMO. But he would still be driving a midfield car...
Williams - Maldonado / ____
Williams are 8th in the WCC and and it is a total waste of a good car. Senna needs to go. Maldonado is already signed but he needs to not crash - pure and simple.
Sauber - ____ / ____
Both should be retained, but need to be more consistent. Perez might yet sign for Ferrari but he has denied he will.
Force India - ____ / ____
I don't see the hype about di Resta personally, but both drivers are good enough to be retained.
Caterham - ____ /____
Petrov has finished ahead of Kovalainen more often than not but I must admit I haven't really been paying attention.
STR - ____ / ____
Both drivers are pretty evenly matched in the races but have been let down by a poor car.
Marussia - Glock / ____
Anyone care to comment?
Hispania - De La Rosa / ____
See above.

Looks like a pretty boring silly season to be honest! :\

[F1boat]

Until Spa I was sure that Lewis will sign again for McLaren, but after the twittergate I don't know. He acted in a horrible way to his team. I'd personally like to see him in Mercedes, if Michael retires. I think that he needs a year in a mediocre car in order to recognize how much he owes McLaren.

[CNR]

Petrov ?
Petrov`s F1 career in danger (http://zeenews.india.com/sports/motorsports/petrov-s-f1-career-in-danger_748218.html)

Vitaly Petrov`s career as Russia`s only Formula One driver hangs in balance after the Russian government cut off financial support, his manager Oksana Kosachenko said.

Petrov became the first Russian in F1 when he joined Renault in 2010. He now drives for Caterham, where his sponsors include government owned Russian Helicopters while an earlier sponsor was the state-run Lada car maker.

"We have now lost government support," Kosachenko said

[steveaki13]

My random guess at next years line up for fun.

Mclaren: Button/Rosberg
Ferrari: Alonso/Perez
Red Bull: Vettel/Webber
Mercedes: Hamilton/Schumacher
Lotus: Raikkonen/Kovalainen
Sauber: Massa/Kobayashi -(Crash fest in store)
Force India: Hulkenberg/di Resta
Williams: Maldonado/Bottas
Toro Rosso: Ricciardo/Vergne
Caterham: Glock/?
Marussia: Pic/?
HRT: Karthikeyan/? - Hard too know, whether form or money willl get these drives?

[tfp]

I think Hamilton will sign for Mclaren for next year, I think all these stories about him going to Mercedes are media looking to fill up their pages.

I dont think Massa will have the Ferrari seat next year, he simply isnt fast enough. I can see Ferrari robbing Perez. But who will have the Sauber seat?

As for Lotus....Im sure Kimi will stay, but Grosjean? I think he has the potential to be a front runner, but he needs to learn not to stack his car on the first lap!

Williams should get rid of Pastor. Plain and simple, he causes too many collisions, even the qualifying lap on his only race win was very dodgy. IMO Rubens would do a better job than him, at least he would bring the points in. Senna is a bit iffy aswel. I think Williams should maybe look for quick nick, and bring a newbie in.

Di resta has dissapointed me so far this year, but he had a really good first year, and I think the hulk is really good competition for him. Both should stay.

Caterham, I think have two very good drivers, I think it would be a shame if Petrov cant get a seat next year for reasons that CNR has left a link to.

Hispania IMO need to get rid of Karthikayen. Why dont they give Chandhock another go?

Thats my opinions anyway :)

[keysersoze]

So here is what we have for next year:

Red Bull - Vettel / Webber
Nothing to see here.
McLaren - _____ / Button
Hamilton extremely likely to sign, he just hasn't done so yet.
Ferrari - Alonso / ____
Massa is IMO likely to re-sign for Ferrari. They still gave him the gig after his 2010 and 2011 seasons, so what's the difference?
Lotus - Raikkonen / ____
If D'Ambrosio impresses this weekend then Grosjean is on serious notice. I definitely think Grosjean will finish the season regardless of anything D'Ambrosio does but next year is uncertain.
Mercedes - Rosberg / ____
Schumacher should re-sign on the strength of his current form, IMO. But he would still be driving a midfield car...
Williams - Maldonado / ____
Williams are 8th in the WCC and and it is a total waste of a good car. Senna needs to go. Maldonado is already signed but he needs to not crash - pure and simple.
Sauber - ____ / ____
Both should be retained, but need to be more consistent. Perez might yet sign for Ferrari but he has denied he will.
Force India - ____ / ____
I don't see the hype about di Resta personally, but both drivers are good enough to be retained.
Caterham - ____ /____
Petrov has finished ahead of Kovalainen more often than not but I must admit I haven't really been paying attention.
STR - ____ / ____
Both drivers are pretty evenly matched in the races but have been let down by a poor car.
Marussia - Glock / ____
Anyone care to comment?
Hispania - De La Rosa / ____
See above.

Looks like a pretty boring silly season to be honest! :\

It seems like 4 of the first 5 will be wrong, as Massa exit rumours are gaining strength, Hamilton may be headed to Mercedes (with Michael retiring) and, according to Boullier, Grosjean's seat is safe.

[DexDexter]

My random guess at next years line up for fun.

Mclaren: Button/Rosberg
Ferrari: Alonso/Perez
Red Bull: Vettel/Webber
Mercedes: Hamilton/Schumacher
Lotus: Raikkonen/Kovalainen
Sauber: Massa/Kobayashi -(Crash fest in store)
Force India: Hulkenberg/di Resta
Williams: Maldonado/Bottas
Toro Rosso: Ricciardo/Vergne
Caterham: Glock/?
Marussia: Pic/?
HRT: Karthikeyan/? - Hard too know, whether form or money willl get these drives?

There is no way a team will run two Finnish drivers. Too small a market.

[Malbec]

Sauber: Massa/Kobayashi -(Crash fest in store)


I don't understand why some people assume that if Massa leaves Ferrari he'll merely go to another team. He'll be out of F1 I reckon or one of the tailenders but I wouldn't have thought any of the other teams would touch him with a bargepole.

[Garry Walker]

Williams should get rid of Pastor. Plain and simple, he causes too many collisions, even the qualifying lap on his only race win was very dodgy. IMO Rubens would do a better job than him, at least he would bring the points in. Senna is a bit iffy aswel. I think Williams should maybe look for quick nick, and bring a newbie in.

Hispania IMO need to get rid of Karthikayen. Why dont they give Chandhock another go?

Thats my opinions anyway :)

Chandok? He is worse than Narain.
I agree that Nick should still be in F1, perfectly he and Pastor should have teamed up at Williams.

[tfp]

Chandok? He is worse than Narain.
I agree that Nick should still be in F1, perfectly he and Pastor should have teamed up at Williams.

He cant possibly be worse than Narain, Narain finishes last every race :D Saying that, Chandhoks record isnt much better either :) I just think with both of their ages, Karthikayen is maybe past his best, where as Chandhok still has time to develop, thats why I think he deserves the seat more than Narain :)

Maybe with Nick I dont think he will be out of F1 for very long. If the shoe leaves at the end of the season, and Massa is kicked out of Ferrari, that would open up gaps in other teams, possibly Sauber, for Nick to step in....

[Roamy]

I think I will just agree wholeheartedly with this post!! Although Massa is getting fired!!

[Roamy]

So here is what we have for next year:

Red Bull - Vettel / Webber
Nothing to see here.
McLaren - _____ / Button
Hamilton extremely likely to sign, he just hasn't done so yet.
Ferrari - Alonso / ____
Massa is IMO likely to re-sign for Ferrari. They still gave him the gig after his 2010 and 2011 seasons, so what's the difference?
Lotus - Raikkonen / ____
If D'Ambrosio impresses this weekend then Grosjean is on serious notice. I definitely think Grosjean will finish the season regardless of anything D'Ambrosio does but next year is uncertain.
Mercedes - Rosberg / ____
Schumacher should re-sign on the strength of his current form, IMO. But he would still be driving a midfield car...
Williams - Maldonado / ____
Williams are 8th in the WCC and and it is a total waste of a good car. Senna needs to go. Maldonado is already signed but he needs to not crash - pure and simple.
Sauber - ____ / ____
Both should be retained, but need to be more consistent. Perez might yet sign for Ferrari but he has denied he will.
Force India - ____ / ____
I don't see the hype about di Resta personally, but both drivers are good enough to be retained.
Caterham - ____ /____
Petrov has finished ahead of Kovalainen more often than not but I must admit I haven't really been paying attention.
STR - ____ / ____
Both drivers are pretty evenly matched in the races but have been let down by a poor car.
Marussia - Glock / ____
Anyone care to comment?
Hispania - De La Rosa / ____
See above.

Looks like a pretty boring silly season to be honest! :\


I think I will just agree wholeheartedly with this post!! Although Massa is getting fired!!

[Malbec]

He cant possibly be worse than Narain, Narain finishes last every race :D Saying that, Chandhoks record isnt much better either :) I just think with both of their ages, Karthikayen is maybe past his best, where as Chandhok still has time to develop, thats why I think he deserves the seat more than Narain :)


Narain brings Tata automotive money, Chandhok doesn't....

[The Black Knight]

What do you all reckon of this for silly season talk?

'Ferrari could turn to Schumacher' | Sky Sports (http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/12433/8058602/-Ferrari-could-turn-to-Schumacher-)

[Tazio]

I'll take it in a heartbeat over Massa, but he is not one of my preferred choices.

[F1boat]

It'd be very nice, he may win that elusive 92nd win!

[rjbetty]

Ok I'm gonna try this. In brackets are the drivers I think are in the frame, and are listed roughly in order of what I believe is their likelihood of getting the drive.


Red Bull:
Justin Bieber and Superman (same old)

McLaren:
Jenson Button & ________________, (either Lewis Hamilton or Paul di Resta)

Lotus:
Kimi Raikkonen 4000 & Romain Grosjean

Ferrari:
Fernando Alonso & _______________ (Felipe Massa, Nico Hulkenberg, Paul di Resta, Sergio Perez, Heikki Kovalainen)

Mercedes:
______________ & Nico Rosberg (Michael Schumacher, Lewis Hamilton, Nico Hulkenberg, Paul di Resta)

Sauber:
______________ & _______________ (Sergio Perez, Kamui Kobayashi, Heikki Kovalainen, Jaime Alguersuari, Felipe Massa, Esteban Gutierrez, Charles Pic)

Force India:
______________ & _______________ (Paul di Resta, Nico Hulkenberg, Jaime Alguersuari, Felipe Massa, Jules Bianchi, Heikki Kovalainen, Charles Pic)

Williams:
Pastor Maldonado & _______________ (Bruno Senna, Valtteri Bottas)

Toro Rosso:
Daniel Ricciardo & Jean-Eric Vergne

Caterham:
_______________ & _______________ (Heikki Kovalainen, Vitaly Petrov, basically anyone else out of a drive in above teams, like Kobayashi)

Marussia:
Timo Glock & ______________ (Charles Pic, Pay Driver)

HRT:
Pedro de la Rosa & ______________ (Narain Karthikeyan, Pay Driver)



I just cannot see Lotus binning Grosjean.
I root for Caterham, but Kovalainen deserves more.
I really hope Alguersuari gets back in somewhere.
I hope Schumacher does stay one more year. He has finally gotten at least on terms with Rosberg. Maybe he feels there's not much improvement left and 44 is simply too told for F1. I don't know if Mercedes are going anywhere though,given they are scaling back apparently (a great disappointment).
Can't see Toro Rosso ditching their drivers at all.

[Rollo]

I wanna see Kobayashi at Ferrari. I think Hamilton will remain at McLaren, and I suspect Schumacher will hang up his boots.

Massa is likely to be at Sauber I suspect and I wouldn't be at all surprised if either Luiz Razia or Davide Valsecchi find themselves in F1 in 2013.

[CNR]

McLaren:

Jenson Button




Red Bull:

Vettel

Webber



Ferrari

Alonso

? (Perez)



Lotus

Raikkonen

Grosjean



Mercedes

?

?



Williams

?

?



Sauber

?

?



Force India

?

?



Caterham

?

?



STR

Daniel Ricardo
no contract for next year yet




Marussia





Hispania

De La Rosa management role ?




Raikkonen locked into 2013 contract now (http://www.inautonews.com/raikkonen-locked-into-2013-contract-now-lopez)
HRT wants to keep De La Rosa for management role | YallaF1.com (http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/09/01/hrt-wants-to-keep-de-la-rosa-for-management-role/)

[CNR]

Jenson Button happy to have Paul di Resta as a McLaren team-mate should Lewis Hamilton move to Mercedes - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/mclaren/9534052/Jenson-Button-happy-to-have-Paul-di-Resta-as-a-McLaren-team-mate-should-Lewis-Hamilton-move-to-Mercedes.html)
Jenson Button happy to have Paul di Resta as a McLaren team-mate should Lewis Hamilton move to Mercedes

Jenson Button says he would have no issue working with Force India’s Paul di Resta at McLaren should Lewis Hamilton move to Mercedes, denying that there would be any conflict of interest.

[CNR]

F1 : Kovalainen management summoned to Maranello for Formula 1 drive talks (http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=34971:f1--kovalainen-management-summoned-to-maranello-for-formula-1-drive-talks&catid=1:f1&Itemid=157)

Finnish reports say Caterham Formula One team driver Heikki Kovalainen's management have been summoned to Maranello.

The speculation follows Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo ruling out Sergio Perez as Felipe Massa's 2013 successor, due to his lack of experience.

Finn Kovalainen, 30, is on the market after three years of rebuilding his reputation at Caterham, following his less than shining first three years in Formula 1 at Renault and McLaren.

The Finnish broadcaster MTV3 said representatives of Kovalainen's management team at IMG Worldwide will travel to Maranello next week.

[prpr]

Alonso quoted in Autosport.com, when quizzed about Massa being retained: "If the team decides to change Felipe, anyone who arrives has to be better than Felipe. I've seen a lot of names written, and I don't know if they have been written with the head or the heart. With all the names you hear, if you compare what Felipe has done in Formula 1 and what these little names have done in Formula 1... In my opinion we need to have a driver that respects Ferrari, that respects the tradition that here we work for the team, for the red cars, and this is the first priority." In other words, not ..... ........

[CNR]

Sport | Motorsport | Robert Kubica route to F1 Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/347707/Robert-Kubica-route-to-F1)-

ROBERT KUBICA could be on his way back to Formula 1 as test driver for Pirelli.


The tyre firm faces losing Jaime Alguersuari for 2013 as the Spaniard is linked with a return to Force India

[N4D13]

As much as I'd like to see Alguersuari back in 2013, I don't think Force India would pick him. It's not that di Resta nor Hulkenberg are doing badly and neither did Jaime set the world alight during his time at Toro Rosso. It was obvious that he was a fine driver, but so are Paul and the Hulk.

[Rollo]

How silly are we allowed to get here?

Ferrari: 1 - Alonso, 2 - Kobayashi
McLaren: 3 - Button, 4 - Perez
Red Bull: 5 - Vettel, 6 - Ricciardo
Lotus: 9 - Raikkonen, 10 - Maldonado
Sauber: 11 - Massa, 12 - Gutiérrez
Force India: 14 - Hulkenberg, 15 - di Resta
Williams: 16 - Senna, 17 - Bottas
Toro Rosso: 18 - Buemi, 19 - Vergne
Caterham: 20 - Kovaleinen, 21 - Petrov
Kia (Formerly HRT): 22 - de la Rosa, 23 - Karthikeyan
Marussia: 24 - Glock, 25 - Pic
Mercedes: 658 - Rosberg, 722 - Hamilton

[truefan72]

Alonso quoted in Autosport.com, when quizzed about Massa being retained: "If the team decides to change Felipe, anyone who arrives has to be better than Felipe. I've seen a lot of names written, and I don't know if they have been written with the head or the heart. With all the names you hear, if you compare what Felipe has done in Formula 1 and what these little names have done in Formula 1... In my opinion we need to have a driver that respects Ferrari, that respects the tradition that here we work for the team, for the red cars, and this is the first priority." In other words, not ..... ........

in other words a driver willing to be a #2 without question
alonso doesn't care one bit about "the team" he has and will always only care about himself no matter what

[kfzmeister]

alonso doesn't care one bit about "the team" he has and will always only care about himself no matter what

:uhoh:

[CNR]

in other words a driver willing to be a #2 without question
alonso doesn't care one bit about "the team" he has and will always only care about himself no matter what
a good example of this is after the race in the room where vettel and button where having a chat about the race and alone so just walked away

[AndyL]

How silly are we allowed to get here?

Ferrari: 1 - Alonso, 2 - Kobayashi
McLaren: 3 - Button, 4 - Perez
Red Bull: 5 - Vettel, 6 - Ricciardo
Lotus: 9 - Raikkonen, 10 - Maldonado
Sauber: 11 - Massa, 12 - Gutiérrez
Force India: 14 - Hulkenberg, 15 - di Resta
Williams: 16 - Senna, 17 - Bottas
Toro Rosso: 18 - Buemi, 19 - Vergne
Caterham: 20 - Kovaleinen, 21 - Petrov
Kia (Formerly HRT): 22 - de la Rosa, 23 - Karthikeyan
Marussia: 24 - Glock, 25 - Pic
Mercedes: 658 - Rosberg, 722 - Hamilton

OK, most of that is understandable apart from Karthikeyan keeping his seat, but what's the explanation for 658 and 722?

[Rollo]

OK, most of that is understandable apart from Karthikeyan keeping his seat, but what's the explanation for 658 and 722?

Basically marketing.

The numbers come from the two 300 SLRs that Mercedes-Benz ran in the 1955 Mille Miglia. 658 was the number on Fangio's car and 722 was on Moss' car which won the event. The numbers being the time which they started the event. (ie 722 - 07:22am).
This idea keeps on coming up in Das Rundschreiben which is one of the M-B club magazines; based on internal memos.

[Tazio]

:uhoh:

It really sucks to be an Alonso hater these days. ;)
He is in the same category as Kimi, and Button as a guy who just gets on with his job, except he is more talented than JB. :s mokin:

[TheFamousEccles]

Rollo, your team match-ups make for interesting reading, especially Fred and Kobe at the Cavalino Rampante, but one question - has Webber retired or has he just been too slow in the F1 musical chairs game?

[Rollo]

Rollo, your team match-ups make for interesting reading, especially Fred and Kobe at the Cavalino Rampante, but one question - has Webber retired or has he just been too slow in the F1 musical chairs game?

Webber is both old and farty and there has been at least one rumour linking him to the outfit currently know as Kelly Racing but in 2013 will become Nissan Motorsport in the V8 Supercar championship.
Red Bull if they had any sense would put Webber out to pasture and promote Ricciardo to the main team. The changes at Red Bull I've stated close the holes nicely.

That's why I asked: "How silly are we allowed to get here?"

[TheFamousEccles]

I did'nt know about the Kelly thing, curious.

Yes, I did see the caveat about "silly", and I am all for it. I think the Alonzo/Kobayashi combo is a great one on paper, to be honest. Though never likely to occur Kobe would be an ideal #2 for a top-flight team.

I do think that Ricciardo should go up to the main team and as much as I hate to say it, MW has peaked and barring a perfect storm of circumstances, is not a WDC contender - however, his two wins this year and up until recently consistent form give lie to my claim. So it can be argued that I have no idea what I am talking about :D

[Rollo]

If Hamilton leaves McLaren for Mercedes, then McLaren would be looking for a replacement. Perez had this to say:

"In the position I am in, when I have a good result because I am fighting for points and sometimes able to get some good podiums, it is when rumours start. There are so many rumours. Before it was Ferrari, now it is McLaren. So always when I have a good race they put me in a different team."
- Sergio Pérez, in The Grauniad, 20th Sep 2012.
Sergio Pérez flirts with idea of joining McLaren | Sport | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/sep/20/sergio-perez-mclaren-lewis-hamilton)

I think that we can take it pretty well much as read that Massa is on borrowed time at Ferrari. If he goes, who'd honestly be willing to take on the No.2 spot at Ferrari knowing that Fred is going to be your team mate?
Ferrari would do well to install Kobayashi as a driver because from a marketing perspective, they'd be able to use that exposure to sell more road cars in Asia.

[ShiftingGears]

Rollo, your team match-ups make for interesting reading, especially Fred and Kobe at the Cavalino Rampante, but one question - has Webber retired or has he just been too slow in the F1 musical chairs game?

Nope, he has a contract for 2013.

[N. Jones]

Here's my guess:

Red Bull is set already.
McLaren - Hamilton & Button
Ferrari - Alonso & Perez
Lotus - Raikkonen & Grosjean
Mercedes - Schumacher & Rosberg
Sauber - Massa & Kovalainen
Force India - di Resta & Hulkenberg
Williams - Maldonado & Kobayashi or Bottas
STR - Ricciardo & Vergne
Marussia - Glock and Pic
Caterham - Petrov & I have no idea
HRT - de la Rosa & almost anyone but Karthikeyan

Hamilton to Mercedes is all about money. If he wants money and no wins then fine, di Resta can take his spot and Guido van der Garde or Kovalianen can take the open spot at FI.
I doubt Michael retires unless Hamilton comes aboard.
I feel Massa is gone from Ferrari and will go to Sauber to renew himself. Kovalainen is tired of being at the back and wants to score points so he will sign with someone above him, I just choose Sauber because I think Kamui is gone.
Kamui is also cheap hence signing with Williams. If Force India has an open seat does Glock try to go there or does he stay where he is?
And, all this talk of Algeursuari coming back but to where? Who would want to sign him? He obviously doesn't want to go to HRT, even if it is trying to become an all Spanish team with the hope (this is my guess) to lure Spanish money into the team so they can become mid-runners.

It would be nice if team 13 would show up as originally planned. I think it would help more deserving drivers get a chance to drive in F1.

[Nikki Katz]

Everything's really up in the air, we could have loads of movement, but I seem to have predicted hardly any:

McLaren - Hamilton, Button
Red Bull - Vettel, Webber
Ferrari - Alonso, Massa
Lotus - Raikkonen, Grosjean
Mercedes - Rosberg, Schumacher
Sauber - Perez, Kovalainen
Force India - di Resta, Hulkenberg
Williams - Maldonado, Bottas
Toro Rosso - Ricciardo, Vergne
Marussia - Glock, Chilton
Caterham - Kobayashi, Alguersuari
HRT - Petrov, Clos

Clearly Ferrari dropping Massa or Schumacher retiring would throw this wide open though.

[CNR]

Vitaly Petrov's F1 future in doubt | Caterham | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN F1 (http://en.espnf1.com/caterham/motorsport/story/90001.html)

Petrov's manager Oksana Kosachenko said her negotiations to secure Petrov a drive in 2013 had stalled due to a lack of funding."We've taken a timeout now," she told R-Sport. "I need time to consolidate all our financial possibilities and understand if there's sense in continuing any talks. If there's no money, then there's no driver."

[Malbec]

If Hamilton leaves McLaren for Mercedes, then McLaren would be looking for a replacement. Perez had this to say:

"In the position I am in, when I have a good result because I am fighting for points and sometimes able to get some good podiums, it is when rumours start. There are so many rumours. Before it was Ferrari, now it is McLaren. So always when I have a good race they put me in a different team."
- Sergio Pérez, in The Grauniad, 20th Sep 2012.
Sergio Pérez flirts with idea of joining McLaren | Sport | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/sep/20/sergio-perez-mclaren-lewis-hamilton)

I think that we can take it pretty well much as read that Massa is on borrowed time at Ferrari. If he goes, who'd honestly be willing to take on the No.2 spot at Ferrari knowing that Fred is going to be your team mate?
Ferrari would do well to install Kobayashi as a driver because from a marketing perspective, they'd be able to use that exposure to sell more road cars in Asia.

I don't get the hysteria about Perez.

He's being regularly outqualified by his teammate who seems to be written off by many people as being too slow. If Kobayashi is slow why can't Perez outqualify him regularly? Taking the Sauber into Q3 regularly would also be a good move, why can't he do it?

He's scored three podiums. One of which was in highly changeable wet conditions which tend to throw out odd results. The other two were the result of having to start on an alternative strategy on one-stop tracks, charging through the field on softs at the end of the race while the rest of the field try to nurse their hard tyres home. In both cases he had to try an alternative strategy because his teammate had qualified significantly further up the field, making it into Q3. Sure he was given three opportunities and he took advantage of all three, he didn't drop the ball but thats all he's done as far as I can see.

If he's the next Alonso I want him to do things that Alonso did. Outqualify his teammate regularly if not dominate him. Get good finishes (I'm not even asking for podiums) on a conventional strategy. Keep his nose clean more regularly than he does.

Until he manages that I fail to see the hype about this man.

As for the talk connecting him with various drives, I'd say it suits McLaren to talk about other drivers to pressure Hamilton to sign. Letting him know he's not the only option is a good pressuring technique.

I think Kobayashi is heading out of Sauber. He's in a vulnerable position as he's almost alone in the midfield in not bringing sponsorship and his results on the face of it aren't that impressive although much of that has been due to very poor luck. There are plenty of other decently quick drivers out there who bring money too.

For the same reasons I think if Massa is kicked out of Ferrari he'll either drop to a team like Caterham or leave the sport entirely. That said I think Ferrari will keep him on for another season.

[kfzmeister]

a good example of this is after the race in the room where vettel and button where having a chat about the race and alone so just walked away

http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/thumb/2/2d/Trollface_HD.png/618px-Trollface_HD.png

[kfzmeister]

BTW, where's Allgwhereschwuareeee driving next year???

[N. Jones]

I don't get the hysteria about Perez.

He's being regularly outqualified by his teammate who seems to be written off by many people as being too slow. If Kobayashi is slow why can't Perez outqualify him regularly? Taking the Sauber into Q3 regularly would also be a good move, why can't he do it?

He's scored three podiums. One of which was in highly changeable wet conditions which tend to throw out odd results. The other two were the result of having to start on an alternative strategy on one-stop tracks, charging through the field on softs at the end of the race while the rest of the field try to nurse their hard tyres home. In both cases he had to try an alternative strategy because his teammate had qualified significantly further up the field, making it into Q3. Sure he was given three opportunities and he took advantage of all three, he didn't drop the ball but thats all he's done as far as I can see.

If he's the next Alonso I want him to do things that Alonso did. Outqualify his teammate regularly if not dominate him. Get good finishes (I'm not even asking for podiums) on a conventional strategy. Keep his nose clean more regularly than he does.

Until he manages that I fail to see the hype about this man.

As for the talk connecting him with various drives, I'd say it suits McLaren to talk about other drivers to pressure Hamilton to sign. Letting him know he's not the only option is a good pressuring technique.

I think Kobayashi is heading out of Sauber. He's in a vulnerable position as he's almost alone in the midfield in not bringing sponsorship and his results on the face of it aren't that impressive although much of that has been due to very poor luck. There are plenty of other decently quick drivers out there who bring money too.

For the same reasons I think if Massa is kicked out of Ferrari he'll either drop to a team like Caterham or leave the sport entirely. That said I think Ferrari will keep him on for another season.

Okay, so Perez started on the back foot and took a few podiums, while Kobayashi started further up the field and has zero podiums.

I think that fact alone shows that Perez is the better driver than Kobayashi.

[N4D13]

If he's the next Alonso I want him to do things that Alonso did. Outqualify his teammate regularly if not dominate him. Get good finishes (I'm not even asking for podiums) on a conventional strategy. Keep his nose clean more regularly than he does.
As much as I think that people are blowing the Pérez stuff out of proportion, I'd like to remind you that Alonso wasn't doing all that great when compared to Trulli. He beat Trulli 15 times out of 29 in races and 15 out of 31 in qualifying. Hardly could it get any closer between them... and it's not like Trulli was such a great driver. My point is that you can't draw many conclusions from whether he's able to outperform his teammate regularly or not.

[steveaki13]

and it's not like Trulli was such a great driver. .

dont let Pino hear you say that. Or should I say see you write that.

[N4D13]

dont let Pino hear you say that. Or should I say see you write that.
I didn't - my account was hacked! :p

[Tazio]

I didn't - my account was hacked! :p
.............by Tamburello :eek:

[keysersoze]

Ferrari: likely unchanged, with Kovalainen / Hulkenberg as outside bets
McLaren: likely unchanged, with Perez set if Lewis bolts
Red Bull: unchanged
Lotus: unchanged
Mercedes: Rosberg with Hamilton or Schumacher
Force India: di Resta and Hulkenberg or Pic
Sauber: Alguesuari and Perez, Kovalainen, or Pic
Williams: Maldonado and Senna or Pic
STR: unchanged
Marussia: Glock and Chilton
Caterham: van der Garde and Kovalainen or Senna
HRT: de la Rosa and Senna

Although I rate Petrov, I don't think he can be picked up if he doesn't bring funding. This paves the way for van der Garde, who probabaly brings a bit of cash. Kova's possibilities are Sauber and Ferrari,

Chilton had a good second half in GP2, and has funding. He should be headed for Marussia.

With his funding, and having been a tough teammate for Glock this year, Pic will be looking to upgrade to a mid-field team.

Narain is getting closer to Pedro at HRT, but PdlR should be a fixture for a couple more years.

If Williams decides to dump Senna b/c he can't get his qualifying form together, look for him to take his cash to Caterham or HRT.

[kfzmeister]

Sauber: Esteban Gutierrez

The next Mexican with Telmex sponsorship

[CNR]

Adrian Sutil. to race next year ?
Welcome to the official Website of the Formula 1 Driver Adrian Sutil (http://www.adriansutil.com/)

[Hawkmoon]

in other words a driver willing to be a #2 without question
alonso doesn't care one bit about "the team" he has and will always only care about himself no matter what

The statement is true if you replace Alonso with Hamilton, Vettel, Schmuacher and just about every other F1 driver you can name.

[CNR]

Red Bull

Vettel

Webber



McLaren

Button

Perez



Ferrari

Alonso

Massa - di Resta – Kovalainen - Sutil - Glock



Lotus

Raikkonen

Grosjean - Kovalainen



Mercedes

Hamilton

Rosberg



Williams

Maldonado

Senna – Kovalainen - Sutil



Force India

(di Resta) - Kovalainen

Hulkenberg - Sutil



Toro Rosso

Ricciardo

Vergne



Sauber

Kobayashi

alexander rossi



Caterham

Sutil – Glock -Kovalainen

alexander rossi



Marussia

Sutil - Glock




HRT

Sutil

De La Rosa

[keysersoze]

Ferrari: likely unchanged, with Kovalainen / Hulkenberg as outside bets
McLaren: likely unchanged, with Perez set if Lewis bolts
Red Bull: unchanged
Lotus: unchanged
Mercedes: Rosberg with Hamilton or Schumacher
Force India: di Resta and Hulkenberg or Pic
Sauber: Alguesuari and Perez, Kovalainen, or Pic
Williams: Maldonado and Senna or Pic
STR: unchanged
Marussia: Glock and Chilton
Caterham: van der Garde and Kovalainen or Senna
HRT: de la Rosa and Senna

Although I rate Petrov, I don't think he can be picked up if he doesn't bring funding. This paves the way for van der Garde, who probabaly brings a bit of cash. Kova's possibilities are Sauber and Ferrari,

Chilton had a good second half in GP2, and has funding. He should be headed for Marussia.

With his funding, and having been a tough teammate for Glock this year, Pic will be looking to upgrade to a mid-field team.

Narain is getting closer to Pedro at HRT, but PdlR should be a fixture for a couple more years.

If Williams decides to dump Senna b/c he can't get his qualifying form together, look for him to take his cash to Caterham or HRT.

Updating my own silly season line-up

Ferrari: Alonso and Massa, Kovalainen, Sutil, or Hulkenberg
McLaren: Button and Perez confirmed
Red Bull: Vettel and Webber confirmed
Lotus: Raikonnen and Grosjean likely
Mercedes: Hamilton and Rosberg confirmed
Force India: di Resta and Hulkenberg likely, Jules Bianchi slots in if NH leaves
Sauber: wide open (Kobayashi, Alguersuari, Schumacher, Sutil, Massa, Kovalainen in that order)
Williams: Maldonado and Senna, Sutil, or Kovalainen
STR: Ricciardo and Vergne likely
Marussia: Glock and Chilton or Pic
Caterham: Kovalainen and Pic or van der Garde
HRT: de la Rosa and Senna

[truefan72]

Adrian Sutil. to race next year ?
Welcome to the official Website of the Formula 1 Driver Adrian Sutil (http://www.adriansutil.com/)

website has not been updated in forever
last bit of news was February 2012

[zako85]

I am surprised that Williams went with two young drivers this year. This is, ex ante, an a-ok line up for an outfit that aspires to be just another midfield team, like STR or Force India. It would be a mistake to repeat that in 2013. They should at least pick up someone like Sutil or Heidfeld to be paired for Maldonado. Someone with good consistency, speed, and experience. A gutsier move would have been to hire Raikkonen in 2012, but for whatever reason Williams lacked the money and/or wisdom to do that. It seems like Williams is being run by accountants lately.

[CNR]

website has not been updated in forever
last bit of news was February 2012

it is at the top of the webpage
Next Destnation Australia
Race will start in D,M,S

[darkos]

It's not silly season, it's great. So many World Champions racing all together to prove them selfs and to fans whose still the best.

[CNR]

The Witness (http://www.witness.co.za/index.php?showcontent&global%5B_id%5D=88614)
Sauber mulls signing Schumacher or Huelkenberg

F1: Ferrari Has Not Re-Signed Massa Yet - Spokesman (http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-ferrari-has-not-re-signed-felipe-massa-yet-spokesman/)

Schumacher back to Ferrari
Adrian Sutil back to Force India
Nico Hulkenberg to Sauber

Paul di Resta got screwed over by Mercedes

[N4D13]

I don't really think that Schumacher is even considering a return to Ferrari - why would he want to come back to his old house only to play second fiddle to Alonso? And it's not like it looks that he could beat him, considering how he's struggled against Rosberg in the last few years. Yes, 2012 has been an improvement from him, but still, I can't see how he could manage to challenge Alonso in any way. And that's even assuming that Ferrari decided that replacing Massa with Schumacher would be a good idea - but I don't really think that it would work.

[truefan72]

The Witness (http://www.witness.co.za/index.php?showcontent&global%5B_id%5D=88614)
Sauber mulls signing Schumacher or Huelkenberg

F1: Ferrari Has Not Re-Signed Massa Yet - Spokesman (http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-ferrari-has-not-re-signed-felipe-massa-yet-spokesman/)

Schumacher back to Ferrari
Adrian Sutil back to Force India
Nico Hulkenberg to Sauber

Paul di Resta got screwed over by Mercedes

goo analysis and I think ythis is how it will play out

but I don;t think DiResta got screwed by Mercedes
I actually rate Hulkenberg much higher than DiResta and given the choice between Hamilton and DiResta, if you were mercedes who would you go for?

[truefan72]

As to Ferrari

I think they will replace Massa for sure

here are the 4 drivers in ranked by likelihood that they will probably replace him with.

1. Schumacher
2. Kobayashi
3. Buemi
4. Valsecchi

[Rollo]

As to Ferrari

I think they will replace Massa for sure

here are the 4 drivers in ranked by likelihood that they will probably replace him with.

2. Kobayashi
3. Buemi
4. Valsecchi

Corrected for posterity :D
There is not a strikethrough I found out :eek:

[jens]

Haven’t really commented here. Regarding Hamilton’s shocking (in terms of car performance, for sure!) departure I can only think about human nature in general and the need for a change. Alonso left the home of Renault and was looking for changes until settling in Ferrari. Button wanted a new challenge after Brawn and was thought to be crazy to join Hamilton in McLaren. Schumacher got bored in retirement and wanted to race for Mercedes. Räikkönen got tired of F1 in general. And so on.

And now we have strong rumours of Vettel joining Ferrari in 2014! Some may say it doesn’t make sense for many reasons (car performance, #1 status, etc). But if you take as people simply needing to refresh their mind by making just changes, then it makes a whole lot of sense. Hamilton felt that he is tired of staying in the same place since being 13-year-old. In these cases nothing prevents people from opting for a change – regardless of how good the conditions, salary, car performance, etc, is. Just have to change at any cost! He will be happier to drive a Merc for P10 in a new environment than driving a McLaren for P1 in the same old place. Incredible, but that’s how it is. Refreshing for him, for sure. And a new adventure he is so much looking for. :)

First time I personally had a hypothesis of Hamilton leaving „home” McLaren for the „new challenge” of Mercedes, was after Australia 2010. Later have had a difficult time believing it though, because Mercedes hasn’t improved at all and McLaren is still a top team. But Hamilton’s feelings were so strong that he still had to do it nonetheless. :)

-

Other than that... I am happy for Pérez that he has got the McLaren contract (I consider him as one of my top5 favourite drivers on the grid after Vet, Gro, Kob, But). I hope he delivers and as I really like McLaren’s line-up next year – hopefully the whole team will be up to the challenge of competing at the top. But I have to admit I am not convinced in the consistency of Pérez. He can be very impressive at times and I believe he can win a couple of races next year for McLaren if the car is as good as it has been this year. But what would he do for the rest of the season, is still in the air.

Also we can ponder about wider complications. How strong is McLaren really going to be long-term? They have lost their star driver, which potentially reduces the interest of sponsors. I have heard that from next year McLaren has to start paying for Mercedes engines. Vodafone could also be cutting back its involvement a bit. Can Telmex replace all of that? One additional issue for McLaren is that now they don’t have a spectacular qualifying driver any more. It remains to be seen, how much can the tyre management skills of JB and SP save them in races.

[CNR]

Massa will remain with Ferrari for another year after it was announced that he has signed a one-year contract extension



Red Bull
Vettel
Webber


McLaren
Button
Perez


Ferrari
Alonso
Massa


Lotus
Raikkonen
Grosjean - Kovalainen


Mercedes
Hamilton
Rosberg


Williams
Maldonado
Senna – Kovalainen - Sutil


Force India
(di Resta) - Kovalainen
Hulkenberg - Sutil


Toro Rosso
Ricciardo
Vergne


Sauber
Kobayashi
Hulkenberg


Caterham
Sutil – Glock -Kovalainen
alexander rossi


Marussia
Sutil - Glock



HRT
Sutil
De La Rosa

[zako85]

Are those in bold already confirmed? I haven't heard any official statements from STR or Williams yet. I bet Grosjean will keep his seat at Lotus.

[Nikki Katz]

No. Sauber is almost certain to field Hulkenberg and Gutierrez. Grosjean is as good as confirmed now, though neither he nor Raikkonen are actually under contract yet as far as we know. Glock is confirmed at Marussia and Chilton very likely for the second seat. I doubt that Sutil will get a seat anywhere. Caterham haven't confirmed either driver - Kovalainen is likely to stay due to lack of anywhere else to go, the second seat could really be anyone, there were reports a little while ago that it was Algersuari, but that's gone quiet lately. Force India, assuming they return in the same form that they are currently next year, will field di Resta and someone else, probably Bianchi. Bottas is likely for the second Williams seat, unless funding dictates they have to go with Senna again.

[AndyL]

No. Sauber is almost certain to field Hulkenberg and Gutierrez. Grosjean is as good as confirmed now, though neither he nor Raikkonen are actually under contract yet as far as we know.

A while ago Eric Boullier said that Raikkonen had a 2 year contract where the second year (i.e. next year) was contingent on performance clauses, which had at that point already been met on both sides. So I think Raikkonen does have a contract.

[CNR]

Red Bull

Vettel

Webber



McLaren

Button

Perez



Ferrari

Alonso

Massa - di Resta – Kovalainen - Sutil - Glock



Lotus

Raikkonen

Grosjean - Kovalainen



Mercedes

Hamilton

Rosberg



Williams

Maldonado

Senna – Kovalainen - Sutil



Force India

(di Resta) - Kovalainen

Sutil



Toro Rosso

Ricciardo

Vergne



Sauber

Kobayashi

Hulkenberg



Caterham

Sutil – Glock -Kovalainen

alexander rossi



Marussia

Sutil - Glock




HRT

Sutil

De La Rosa





Ricciardo to stay with Toro Rosso in F1 | Big News Network (http://www.bignewsnetwork.com/index.php/sid/210456432/scat/c4cdc9be967f45f9)
Ricciardo to stay with Toro Rosso in F1 along with French teammate Jean-Eric Vergne
Nico Hulkenberg's F1 future is confirmed, the German set to move to Sauber for 2013 | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/top-stories/nico-hulkenbergs-f1-future-is-confirmed-the-german-set-to-move-to-sauber-for-2013/story-e6frfkp9-1226508456189)
Nico Hulkenberg's F1 future is confirmed, the German set to move to Sauber for 2013

[steveaki13]

Would like to see Max Chilton get more time in F1 for 2013 with a regular testing slot, if not a race seat.

It may be too early for Max to battle a Marussia in the races all season.

[steveaki13]

Not sure who will take Sutil on, but he always seems to be in the background somewhere.

Marussia seems most likely for me, dont really know why though.

[zako85]

It would be sad to see a driver like Sutil driving a dead end car like Marussia. If he can't get a decent seat in F1, he would have been better off to switch to IndyCar, where the playground is usually more level and former F1 driver usually can find a decent seat. This is probably better than driving in the back of grid in Marussia.

[zako85]

Since Caterham is almost certain to lose their lucrative 10th position this year, their finances will take a big hit. In the light of this, I think it's fairly safe to assume that Caterham will want to hire a pay driver with _fat_ sponsor for the next year. Petrov is losing is sponsors, so his seat will be almost certainly vacated next year. I can see Senna taking over his place, or some other pay driver, maybe one of current GP2 drivers.

Anyways.. yawn.. I don't care much. It seems like the primary purpose of HRT, Marussia, and Caterham cars is to create obstacles for other cars to go around at high speed. I just wish these were automatically relegated to the back of grid and Q1 got canceled as it's pretty much pointless to watch Q1 sessions with these guys always reliably taking the six positions in the back for third consecutive year now.

[Garry Walker]

As to Ferrari

I think they will replace Massa for sure

here are the 4 drivers in ranked by likelihood that they will probably replace him with.

1. Schumacher
2. Kobayashi
3. Buemi
4. Valsecchi

You really thought Ferrari might hire Buemi or Valsecchi to replace Massa? Good gracious.

[Ranger]

Starting to think McLaren should have waited a little longer choosing Hamilton's replacement... :/

Perez sure hasn't covered himself in glory in the past 5 races.

[jens]

Starting to think McLaren should have waited a little longer choosing Hamilton's replacement... :/

Perez sure hasn't covered himself in glory in the past 5 races.

Though Pérez is a young driver, who - like many at his age - is most probably going through a bad patch on which he will improve in the future. And from McLaren's point of view he should go through this learning curve now rather than next year. Still - I'd say perhaps Hülkenberg has been the most consistent young driver so far this season. I don't know, how much did McLaren consider him vs Pérez, but currently I'd trust the German a bit more in bringing home consistently good results.

[Bias]

I think it will go like this...

Merc GP - Hamilton/Rosberg - Official
Ferrari - Alonso/Massa - Official
Mclaren - Button/Perez - Official
Red Bull - Vettel/Webber - Official
Lotus - Raikkonen/ (Grojsean - most likely, D'Ambrosio, maybe even Koboyashi... I mean if he is still a free agent with some money. Lotus is in some financial woes.
Sauber - Hulkenburg (Official)/Gutierrez (Most definite), Buemi (Swiss driver with some possible backing), Algersauri, or even Sutil
Toro Rosso - Vergne/Riccardo - Offical
FI - Di Resta (unsure)/Sutil (Been in talks again), Bianchi (3rd driver), Algersauri (Liked FI on Twitter and some sponsorship)
Williams - Maldonado (Has to be resigned, too much money to lose)/Bottas (What personal backing does Bottas has, if any at all?)
Caterham - Kovalinen (Unsure)/Pic (He's unhappy at Marussia), Petrov (IF he has enough money). Honestly, Caterham is an open book.
Marussia - Glock/Chilton (Dad is a rich business man), Hyaranto (Maybe, but I doubt it)
HRT - De La Rosa (Official)/Clos (Honestly IDK), Ming Ha (Doubt it), Karthikeyan (Unless he coughs up more sponsorship)

Open books right now.

[Malbec]

Since Caterham is almost certain to lose their lucrative 10th position this year, their finances will take a big hit. In the light of this, I think it's fairly safe to assume that Caterham will want to hire a pay driver with _fat_ sponsor for the next year. Petrov is losing is sponsors, so his seat will be almost certainly vacated next year. I can see Senna taking over his place, or some other pay driver, maybe one of current GP2 drivers.

Petrov is EXTREMELY well connected. When he went for the Renault second seat his letters of guarantee included Putin as a signatory. While there's talk about money not materialising with a race at Sochi coming up I don't doubt there'll be a cheque written for him just in time.

Kovalainen is the one in trouble at Caterham, drawing a salary without bringing sponsorship. Having lost 10th place Caterham loses 10 million in income at a time Heikki hasn't convinced against his Russian teammate. Senna will look very attractive to Caterham in that light.

Hulkenberg and Raikonnen had their contracts for 2013 made public last week, whats more interesting is what wasn't said. You'd have thought sponsorship concerns would mean Grosjean and Gutierrez are done deals but looks like that isn't the case. I wonder if Kimi has scored enough points over Romain to trigger performance related release clauses for the Frenchman, in which case Lotus might be looking around for suitable replacements as well as thinking about extending Grosjean's contract.

As for Sauber I think they're waiting for two things, seeing if they beat Mercedes earning them $10 million extra for next season and if Kobayashi can find sponsorship money. If he can't then Gutierrez will probably get the second seat there.

[Ranger]

You really thought Ferrari might hire Buemi or Valsecchi to replace Massa? Good gracious.

They would only have to score 40% of Alonso's points haul in a season and they would be doing better.

[prpr]

The outcome of the young driver test in Dubai, starting today, will be interesting. Robert Frijns and Gutierrez will be driving for Sauber. Frijins is a year-one champion in three junior formulae (even if his Formula Renault 3.5 title was achieved in controversial circumstances). If he is considerably faster than Gutierrez, could Sauber do a Raikkonen on him and sign him on a long-term race deal, and hope to sell him on to a bigger team in the future? He doesn't have any money, so it would be a gamble for Sauber.

Frijins is also in action for Red Bull on the final day, so his time in that car may be the real indicator of his potential. Antonio Felix da Costa was a multiple race winner in FR3.5 this year, and finished fourth in the championship after coming in late in the season. He will be driving the Red Bull on the first two days in Dubai, and may also shine as a potential future F1 star.

Could the Dubai test unearth the next Schumacher/Raikkonen/Hamilton/Vettel?

[zako85]

Confirmed, neither Barrichello nor Villeneuve will have a Force India seat.


LINK (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/force-india-decision-would-almost-complete-2013-grid/)

[steveaki13]

Villeneuve is waiting for the Mclaren seat when Perez fails next season.

[jens]

I have no idea, who will get the second Force India seat. But perhaps it is good to have some real unpredictability in the silly season. :) As about other movements there are always some serious rumours before they happen. Except Pérez to McLaren. :D

Caterham is a bit open as well. Pic? Petrov? Van der Garde?

Anyway, it looks like Kobayashi's F1 career is going to be over after 2012... Because I can't see him in any of the seats considering all teams with available drives (FI, Sauber, Caterham) want some money. A pity as I like Kamui, although I must admit that despite a few moments of glory he hasn't been overly impressive in 2012 and hasn't really left an impression of a potential front-runner of F1 in the future. Though if money was not an issue, I would still seriously consider him for a midfield drive.

[zako85]

So who are the remaining drivers with a good sponsor? Senna? Petrov?

[The Black Knight]

Esteban Gutierrez has been confirmed as second Sauber driver. Looks like Kamui is on the out.

[keysersoze]

With Pic's announcement this morning, the intrigue over the remaining vacancies at Force India, Williams (I'm assuming Maldonado gets confirmed), and Marussia becomes intensified. There's a number of quick drivers on this list.

Senna: brings big money
Kovalainen: no money
Van der Garde: brings big money
Chilton: brings big money
Petrov: I think most of his money went away
Alguesuari: I think he brings a bit of money, perhaps not
Sutil: has personal sponsorship
Buemi: no money
Kobayashi: no money
Bottas: dunno about money, but highly tipped to go to Williams
Jules Bianchi: slim odds for a Force India seat, not sure about his budget

[steveaki13]

Amazing in a way that Kobayashi won't be in F1 next year unless something changes.

Some here including myself I think were hoping he would have a chance of a top drive at some point and now we might not see him again.

Not sure if it will be a massive step for Pic after Caterham lose there money for 10th providing they dont finish well in Brazil.

Marussia might actually be in better shape next season.

[steveaki13]

Also congrats to Gutierrez for his drive at Sauber.

[truefan72]

Also congrats to Gutierrez for his drive at Sauber.

not from me
I suspect the only reason he got the seat was to keep the telmex sponsorship
even he admits he might not be ready for F1, we l;ive in a bizarro world
Too bad about Kobayashi, he still might land on his feet at another team

[truefan72]

surprised about pic going to caterham for 2 reasons
1. if marussia get 10th in the WDC they will be in better shape, hecck evenwithout that extra money, they are moving forward postively
2. i'm not sure what pic brings to the table apart from some money, if that.

[steveaki13]

I think Pic has done as good a job at Marussia despite not being seen much. He has beaten Glock who we know about more times than either di Grassi and d'Ambrosio did I think.

Only time will tell though, its so hard to judge the young drivers at the back.

[jarrambide]

not from me
I suspect the only reason he got the seat was to keep the telmex sponsorship
even he admits he might not be ready for F1, we l;ive in a bizarro world
Too bad about Kobayashi, he still might land on his feet at another team

I was assuming he was trying to appear modest with his comments, if he wasn't trying to be modest, he should retire, if you are not ready for F1 after 2 years in GP2, you will never be, after 2 years in GP2 (maybe 3, but no more), drivers either move on to F1, or move to lesser series.

[Wasted Talent]

not from me
I suspect the only reason he got the seat was to keep the telmex sponsorship
even he admits he might not be ready for F1, we l;ive in a bizarro world
Too bad about Kobayashi, he still might land on his feet at another team

Agree, 100%.

Apparently Gutierrez isn't even a "Telmex Academy" driver so has really only got the drive because of his nationality.

Only started watching GP2 this year, with it being live on Sky, and it seemed that James Colado is a much better prospect from the Lotus GP2 team, even though it was his rookie year.

Very disappointed for Kobyashi, has had a pretty similar season to Perez (just losing out by a couple of exceptional results for Perez), and yet one ends up at McLaren and the other out of a drive. I hope he finds some money from Japan and gets the Force India seat

WT

[A FONDO]

How can you state Collado is a "better prospect" :laugh: May be you are the one blinded by nationality ?

[jarrambide]

Agree, 100%.

Apparently Gutierrez isn't even a "Telmex Academy" driver so has really only got the drive because of his nationality.

Only started watching GP2 this year, with it being live on Sky, and it seemed that James Colado is a much better prospect from the Lotus GP2 team, even though it was his rookie year.

Very disappointed for Kobyashi, has had a pretty similar season to Perez (just losing out by a couple of exceptional results for Perez), and yet one ends up at McLaren and the other out of a drive. I hope he finds some money from Japan and gets the Force India seat

WT

How weird that he appears in "Escuderia Telmex" webpage with a nomex with Telmex all over it. ;)

Esteban Gutierrez moved to the US in 2007 with Telmex money and then moved to Europe in 2008 with Telmex money, Gutierrez and Perez are not the only Mexicans that got Carlos Slim's money to try and become F1 drivers, they were just the only 2 to get there, and according to the webpage, they have many other young drivers there, like Franco Aragones, he is just 16, but Telmex is sending him to the UK.

By the way, his name is Calado, not Colado.

[Wasted Talent]

How weird that he appears in "Escuderia Telmex" webpage with a nomex with Telmex all over it. ;)

Esteban Gutierrez moved to the US in 2007 with Telmex money and then moved to Europe in 2008 with Telmex money, Gutierrez and Perez are not the only Mexicans that got Carlos Slim's money to try and become F1 drivers, they were just the only 2 to get there, and according to the webpage, they have many other young drivers there, like Franco Aragones, he is just 16, but Telmex is sending him to the UK.

By the way, his name is Calado, not Colado.

My apologies on both fronts, I was going on what was said on Sky F1, and yes, you are right, apologies to James Calado.

WT

[truefan72]

I am basing my opinion on Gutierrez on his performance in GP2 which was not that good to be honest. I know that GP2 performances do not mean brilliance in F1 and vice versa, but you can extract some sort of picture of the kind of racer he is. I did watch most of the GP2 races, especially the sunday sprints and many of the saturday long races, he drove well throughout the season with a few wins for a solid 3rd place finish but for some reason he never quite impressed me, over the course of the year. I don't dislike the guy, seems like a nice enough and humble chap and I wish him the best, but IMO there are at least 10 drivers I would have picked before him. another year at GP2 and friday test days might have seasoned him well, but hey, he made it to the big show.

In a way, kobayashi was doomed the minute Hulkenberg was signed. We all knew that they needed to keep that telmex sponsorship.

[DexDexter]

So money talks this year and the likes of Heikki Kovalainen walk. The good thing about these pay drivers is that F1 is so expensive that they usually run out of money after a couple of years.

[zako85]

So money talks this year and the likes of Heikki Kovalainen walk. The good thing about these pay drivers is that F1 is so expensive that they usually run out of money after a couple of years.

Sponsors are not always stupid. They will not support a mediocre driver forever.

[tfp]

Who is linked with the second caterham seat? Caterham had IMO two of the better drivers particurlarly for where they are on the grid, and they get rid of them? In favour of Pic??

[dj_bytedisaster]

Adrian Sutils manager has confirmed to German media that they are close to sealing a deal for a return to Force India. Visa for all countries that F1 runs in have already been acquired with no problems arising from his suspended prison sentence for battery.
I would not sleep well if I was a bigwig at Lotus :D

According to the same website (motorsport-total), which are usually quite reliable, Michael Schumacher has declined an offer to become Pirellis development driver. Next two on Pirellis wish-list are allegedly Sutil and Kobayashi.

[steveaki13]

I personally dont really see why Force India would welcome Sutil back?

I think he had a decent run at Force India and was never really showing signs of moving on, so I wonder why after getting rid of him, they now want him back

[dj_bytedisaster]

I personally dont really see why Force India would welcome Sutil back?

I think he had a decent run at Force India and was never really showing signs of moving on, so I wonder why after getting rid of him, they now want him back

Sutil is at least on the same level as Hülkenberg, he was often fighting for solid points finishes. He also brings sponsor money and on top of that he's a known entity in the team. They know that he can deliver. Such a driver is important when you're close to staking your claim in the midfield with aspirations for more. They probably let him go last year to give it a bit of time until the trial and its consequences had blown over a bit. Word is that most of FI's technical and commercial partners still think very highly of him, despite the offtrack troubles.
I don't know how much significance it has, but a couple of days ago a countdown to Melbourne 2013 suddenly appeared on Sutils website.

[The Black Knight]

Maldonado and Bottas confirmed at Williams. Looks like Senna is now most likely without a drive.

[Wasted Talent]

Maldonado and Bottas confirmed at Williams. Looks like Senna is now most likely without a drive.

Formula 1 - Bottas joins Maldonado at Williams - Yahoo! Eurosport UK (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula-1-bottas-partner-maldonado-williams-112258037.html)

WT

[Malbec]

Wolff has put his wife in as a test driver and someone he manages as the second driver.

Nepotism dead in F1? Right...

[I am evil Homer]

In fairness Bottas has shown as much promise as Senna so it's replacing like for like, but I sense the Finn has more potential. Senna, while coming across as a likeable and pleasant guy just hasn't been close to Pastor this season - sure the Williams isn't a fantastic car but even so I think he can't be that surprised he's been replaced.

[truefan72]

In fairness Bottas has shown as much promise as Senna so it's replacing like for like, but I sense the Finn has more potential. Senna, while coming across as a likeable and pleasant guy just hasn't been close to Pastor this season - sure the Williams isn't a fantastic car but even so I think he can't be that surprised he's been replaced.

Actually, Senna has been the more consistent driver for Williams this year. No doubt that pastor is a faster driver in his good days and more talented. But apart from his win in Spain, Senna has actually done a better job. That being said. I would retain maldonado over Senna and hope the guy matures more, and it is worth a shot to see what bottas can do. I think his results will be just the same as senna's imo. I was never high on Senna anyway, but in fairness he did finish up the 2nd part of the year with some gusto. He's had his chances in F1 with a decent Williams and Renault, and I suspect that a few finishes higher up on the podium or one single race where he could have shown an outstanding performance, might have saved his job. Both Senna and Diresta were the only midfield drivers to not have at least one outstanding/sensational performance throughout the entire year.

[Ranger]

I would hate to see Kobayashi miss a drive at Force India because they choose di Resta and Sutil.

[ArrowsFA1]

Maldonado and Bottas confirmed at Williams. Looks like Senna is now most likely without a drive.
Poor decision IMHO. Senna was chosen by Williams after, we were told, a rigorous selection process which included Bottas who was not chosen for the race seat. He has shown good consistency, despite losing track time to Bottas, and would without question be a stronger driver for Williams in 2013.

[pino]

Nothing against Bottas but Valsecchi would have been a better choice ;)

[dj_bytedisaster]

Senna reminds me a bit of Heidfeld. Solid, but nothing sectacular. Looks like that kind of driver is not really in high demand.

[Ranger]

Poor decision IMHO. Senna was chosen by Williams after, we were told, a rigorous selection process which included Bottas who was not chosen for the race seat.

Indeed, a rigorous selection of the largest cheque book.

Otherwise, do you really think Williams would have taken Bruno* over Rubens?

*Bearing in mind that Petrov, whom Heidfeld beat in most races, beat him in every race they both finished in 2011.

[Ranger]

Petrov, whom Heidfeld beat in most races, beat him in every race they both finished in 2011.

Bar one time - in Singapore. Apologies.

There is also a queue forming at Lotus:
Now Kobayashi could replace Grosjean at Lotus | News | Motorsport.com (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/now-kobayashi-could-replace-grosjean-at-lotus/)

Kamui Kobayashi has entered the frame as a potential replacement for Romain Grosjean at Lotus, Finland's Turun Sanomat newspaper reports.
Earlier, the Finnish source MTV3 said Heikki Kovalainen - at risk of losing his Caterham seat - was now a candidate for Lotus, as the Enstone based team considers whether to keep Frenchman Grosjean on board.

[dj_bytedisaster]

With only two halfway desirable cockpits left, the musical chairs season is opened :)

[jens]

So Bottas at Williams. Remains to be seen, what he can do, but he has shown promise in feeder series and obviously Williams rates him highly. So he sort of follows the footsteps of Rosberg, who also entered F1 via Williams.


Senna reminds me a bit of Heidfeld. Solid, but nothing sectacular. Looks like that kind of driver is not really in high demand.

I don't know if this is a compliment to Senna or lack of appreciation of Heidfeld, but from what I have seen in their F1 careers, Senna is nowhere close to Heidfeld, except maybe wet weather driving (and even there Heidfeld was really good).

Interesting that Senna's height of F1 career is probably going to be the very first appearance after his comeback. 7th in Spa qualifying in Renault last year, incidentally also held in wet conditions. I guess on that day many people felt that Bruno is going to be a real force in F1, but wasn't meant to be. Shows that we can't make conclusions of a driver based on his debut performance, as it may be this particular day, where conditions really suit the upcoming driver, while on the rest of the occasions they don't.

[CNR]

how safe is Grosjean at Lotus ? F1: Kobayashi In, Grosjean Out ??? :: PaddockTalk :: F1, Formula 1, NASCAR, IndyCar, MotoGP, ALMS, And More! (http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-211381.html)
Meanwhile, the correspondent for Brazil's O Estado de S.Paulo newspaper, Livio Oricchio, claims Lotus is leaving open the second race seat for now amid its negotiations with potential team investors.
Oricchio said Lotus' talks are with a group of investors involving none other than Bernie Ecclestone, who would promote a "very controversial" new team boss.
"Not Flavio Briatore," Oricchio insisted.

[N. Jones]

Bottas was waiting in the Williams wings for a long time. I think he deserves a shot.
I hope Kobayashi gets the FI seat because he and Perez were pretty even this season.

Lastly, I like seeing all of these signings because it makes setting the rates for FGP 2013 that much easier! :D

[zako85]

Poor decision IMHO. Senna was chosen by Williams after, we were told, a rigorous selection process which included Bottas who was not chosen for the race seat. He has shown good consistency, despite losing track time to Bottas, and would without question be a stronger driver for Williams in 2013.


Formula 1 is overflowing with drivers who can be considered a "worthy mid-field driver". Most teams are not strictly interested in that. Maldonado showed on many occasions that the car can be pushed to do a lot more than simply score some points (too bad he himself often crashed out, or the car broke). I think it's clear if someone like Raikkonen or Kubica (pre-crash) was driving this years Williams car, it would have been on the podium far more often. To stand out, Senna should have earned a podium, or perhaps a few top 5 finishes or a few a top 5 qualification results, etc. As is, he looks at best like another worthy mid-fielder. In this situation, it's understandable that the teams would be interested in rolling the dice with a new driver who is still a relatively an unknown quantity.


Overall, this was a bad year for Williams again. They have moved up just one spot above their 2011 WDC position. Both drivers underperformed. The only teams with less points are STR and the three fresher backmarker teams. This is a fine example for what happens in a team with only pay drivers. A team of Williams's caliber shouldn't be chasing only pay drivers. A more balanced lineup could consist of a paying pay driver and a paid more experienced driver.

[zako85]

There is a rumor in the media that Lotus sponsor Total, who is promoting public road safety, is not happy with the public image of a crash happy Grosjean.

[keysersoze]

If the statements from Force India are true--that they are looking for a driver with pace not money--then I'm thinking they are waiting for the Lotus situation to sort itself out. If they let Grosjean go, FI would want him.


To me, RG is quicker than others contending for the seat: Senna, Buemi, Sutil, Alguesuari, Kobayashi, Kovalainen, Razia, Petrov, etc.

If I had my choice of the drivers available I would start fresh with Grosjean, and either Kova or di Resta.

[dj_bytedisaster]

RG has speed by the bucketload, but he is barely able to finish races and what Force India needs the most are two drivers who can reliably finish.
I think the best way would be to bring back Sutil. He brings money, is very quick, knows the team and can finish races without trying to kill the whole grid. (Well Lotus bigwigs might be another matter ;) )

[AndyL]

Grosjean will get more reliable as he gains experience.
If you want a driver to do the most solid point-scoring job for next year, Sutil would be a good option, but I can't see many teams wanting a guy with a suspended prison sentence still hanging over him.
I think F1 will be the poorer for losing Kobayashi and Kovalainen so I hope one of them gets it.

[Nikki Katz]

I hope that Grosjean is still around next year. He's easily as fast as Raikkonen, he just seemed to get his head in completely the wrong place with all the criticism. I guess that having Kovalainen in the car wouldn't be terrible though.

What's happening with HRT? Wasn't the deadline for paying the FIA's fees yesterday? I would have thought we'd have heard one way or the other by now.

I also like how the FIA are trying to justify the fees as being fairer on the little teams, despite raising the fees for even the smallest teams by $200k. I wonder what they're going to spend all Red Bull's money on!

[dj_bytedisaster]

What's happening with HRT? Wasn't the deadline for paying the FIA's fees yesterday? I would have thought we'd have heard one way or the other by now.

They're still trying to find an investor. Considering that they couldn't even afford proper monitors anymore in Brazil, I'd say they're dead.


I also like how the FIA are trying to justify the fees as being fairer on the little teams, despite raising the fees for even the smallest teams by $200k. I wonder what they're going to spend all Red Bull's money on!

They'll probably spend it on fancy meals and higher salaries for the bigwigs. And, who knows - maybe Max is coming back and they already build up some reserves for all the hookers and inappropriate constumes :D

[Nikki Katz]

Hehe! HRT are now confirmed gone, I just mis-timed my post by a few hours. The team hasn't shut yet, but only because they're trying to pay off debts before doing so.

[ArrowsFA1]

So Bottas at Williams. Remains to be seen, what he can do, but he has shown promise in feeder series and obviously Williams rates him highly.
Indeed, but my question to Williams would be why did they not consider him suitable to step up to a race seat this year instead of Senna? Obviously he's gained another year of experience in the third driver role but that did nothing to help Bruno who would have benefitted from that seat time.

Bear in mind this was Senna's first full season in F1 after partial campaigns with HRT and Renault and, given the evidence of his years in F3 & GP2, we would have seen an improvement in 2013. It's a shame we won't get to see what he could have done with a full year behind him.

That said Bottas is much heralded as a future talent, and if he does a good job for my team I'll be happy.

[A FONDO]

Haven't been reading the news recently, so, which places are still unconfirmed for 2013?

[keysersoze]

Haven't been reading the news recently, so, which places are still unconfirmed for 2013?

Caterham, which have a half-dozen drivers in mind: Petrov, Kovalainen, and van der Garde are the favorites. Senna and Razia also in the mix.

Force India: Sutil is the front-runner, with Senna, Bianchi, Valsecchi, and Razia also rumored.

Marussia: could be wrong here, but I do not think Glock is confirmed, though there is no strong rumor that he will be replaced.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Glock has been confirmed. He signed a three-year deal during the 2011 season. He'll be with Marussia until the end of 2014.

With regards to Caterham, Vitaly Petrov's manager reckons that as many as seven drivers (including Petrov) are in contention for the seat. Petrov seems to be the favourite, since he nabbed tenth place in the WCC for the team, and his sponsors visited the Caterham factory a week before Christmas. Meanwhile, Giedo van der Garde seems to be offering more and more money to the team every time they talk to him; I get the feeling that he thinks this is his last chance to join the team. Heikki Kovalainen is pretty much out of contention, since the team want someone with sponsors and he has made it known that he doesn't want to find them. Luiz Razia has apparently been shopping around for all of the available seats, and I've heard that he has offered up to $23 million, but nobody wants him. And Bruno Senna's sponsors reportedly won't pay for him to drive a car that cannot score points (apparently overlooking the fact that Bruno Senna can barely score points).

As for the Force India seat, Adrian Sutil's name keeps getting mentioned - which I find odd, because he was solid, yet unspectacular. Paul di Resta beat him last year, only to be beaten in kind by Nico Hulkenberg this season. That said, with Lewis Hamilton moving to Mercedes and McLaren replacing him with Sergio Perez, di Resta isn't going to be moving up in the world any time soon. He was placed at Force India to develop as a driver, with a view to one day promoting him to a front-running team. In exchange, Force India got a discount on their engines. But with di Resta going nowhere fast and speculation suggesting engine prices will increase dramatically in 2014, it's possible that Force India will dump di Resta and instead take Sutil alongside Jules Bianchi, who comes with Ferrari backing. This would get them a discount on Ferrari engines, and Sutil would work well in mentoring Bianchi so that at the end of the year, Ferrari will have a choice between Bianchi and Hulkenberg, the latter of whom they seem to be eyeing off as a repalcement for Felipe Massa.

[dj_bytedisaster]

As for the Force India seat, Adrian Sutil's name keeps getting mentioned - which I find odd, because he was solid, yet unspectacular. Paul di Resta beat him last year, only to be beaten in kind by Nico Hulkenberg this season.

The only thing di Resta could beat last year was a hasty retreat. Sutil scored 42 points to di Resta's 27. Since when does this mean being beaten?

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Hmmm, you're right. I never rated di Resta much to begin with, but now I don't rate him at all.

If only we could have Vettel, Raikkonen, Senna and di Resta in the same team. That way, I could efficiently dislike them all, instead of dividing up my dislike between four teams.

[rjbetty]

Hehe! HRT are now confirmed gone, I just mis-timed my post by a few hours. The team hasn't shut yet, but only because they're trying to pay off debts before doing so.

I don't think that's funny... :(

[dj_bytedisaster]

I don't think that's funny... :(

The most ridiculous outfit since Andrea Moda and Forti has folded - of course that's funny. It's bleeding hillarious :D

[BDunnell]

The most ridiculous outfit since Andrea Moda and Forti has folded - of course that's funny. It's bleeding hillarious :D

I didn't think HRT was in any way comparable to Andrea Moda, which in turn was not really comparable to Forti.

[CNR]

it looks like Kovalainen is out of a drive Gascoyne: Kovalainen should have shown more respect | Page 1 | F1 News | Jan 2013 | Crash.Net (http://www.crash.net/f1/news/187237/1/gascoyne_kovalainen_should_have_shown_more_respect .html)
Caterham's Mike Gascoyne has suggested that Heikki Kovalainen (http://www.crash.net/f1/racer_bio/16/heikki_kovalainen.html) would have been better served by taking a better approach to his bid to remain with the team in 2013.

[Nikki Katz]

Glock's out now. Didn't see that coming. Marussia needs a second pay driver? Real shame.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Looks like Chilton's dad can't cough up enough dough. Let there be another lame undeserving paydriver... As long as it isn't the idiot from Bangalore...

[zako85]

Glock's out now. Didn't see that coming. Marussia needs a second pay driver? Real shame.

Considering their position in 2011/2012 WCC, they probably do... I am more surprised when teams like Williams and Sauber are chasing after pay drivers.

[Robinho]

so it seems we have Marussia, Force India and Caterham with 1 seat each (assuming Petrov is likely to stay put), I personally would like to see Kovalainen, Kobyashi and Senna take the 3 seats, in any order, but I can't see it happening

[dj_bytedisaster]

According to German media, Sutil has already signed for FI, but the final announcement is withheld, because the team is romoured to be bough out by Collin Kolles, in which case Di Resta has to go and make way for a pay driver.

[steveaki13]

Shame for Glock. I wondered if he could go too Force India, either as partner to di Resta or if Sutil has signed then alondside him.

Be a shame for Timo if he is out of the sport. He done well at Toyota and committed himself to a struggling team. Hope that hasn't ended his career

[dj_bytedisaster]

Current rumour mill says Glock is off to do DTM for BMW.

[RS]

Petrov to Marussia?

[Bezza]

I am disappointed with the 2013 line-up from midfield downwards to be honest.

Kobayashi, Kovalainen and Glock deserve drives, yet we have Chilton, Pic, Gutierrez, Ricciardo, Vergne and possibly Bianchi and Petrov in drives.

Certainly going to be plenty of good backup drivers if somebody like Grosjean doesn’t perform during the year!

Kobayashi is the biggest loss. He was on a par with Perez, faster in qualifying generally and deserves a drive at least as much as Perez – certainly deserves a drive somewhere Toro Rosso upwards.

[BDunnell]

I am disappointed with the 2013 line-up from midfield downwards to be honest.

Kobayashi, Kovalainen and Glock deserve drives, yet we have Chilton, Pic, Gutierrez, Ricciardo, Vergne and possibly Bianchi and Petrov in drives.

Certainly going to be plenty of good backup drivers if somebody like Grosjean doesn’t perform during the year!

Kobayashi is the biggest loss. He was on a par with Perez, faster in qualifying generally and deserves a drive at least as much as Perez – certainly deserves a drive somewhere Toro Rosso upwards.

Well, Pic and Bianchi in particular I have no problem with. I think they deserve their F1 chances. So, in fact, do several of the others listed, but with Chilton in particular I very much see the point.

[dj_bytedisaster]

More and more good drivers are pushed out of the sport by ridiculous pay drivers. Won't be long until we've reached Deletraz-Level again. We already came close with that laughing stock from India last year.

[jens]

After Kovalainen has been left aside, I have been wondering, how long will Glock survive, because he has been pretty much in the same situation. And frankly it is even sort of a miracle he has been a paid driver for three years at the back of the grid.

So this is the end of F1 road for him. Back in the Toyota days I used to cheer for him a lot. But Timo is one of those drivers, who fell victim of economic downturn and manufacturer pull-out. He already got a few podiums for Toyota and could have had a decent career had the situation remained stable. But as it happened, his career (like Heikki's and Jarno's as well) pretty much ended after 2009. Since then he has been going nowhere at Virgin/Marussia anyway, so this is basically the end of the agony of an F1 career.

At least the good thing with modern paydrivers is that they are hardly terrible. Perhaps Chilton is the worst of the current lot, but can't see we are reaching Deletraz-level any time soon unless someone employs Teixeira! Anyway, this is one additional seat primarily drivers like Senna, Petrov, Razia have an opportunity to get. Sort of half-decent drivers, but hardly going to set the world alight. Then again it doesn't matter at the back of the grid, someone has to make up the numbers. And unless he is embarrassing and outright dangerous, it may well be an average paydriver, who is just filling the grid there at the back. No concerns for me. :)

[keysersoze]

Glock dispatched D'ambrosio and di Grassi, but the team's overall fortunes did not improve much during the first two seasons. Then when Pic was able to get on more even terms with Timo (though TG was clearly better), the team perhaps began to think they could gamble on a proven pay driver (Petrov or Senna) or hope to find a pay driver who will turn out like Perez or Maldonado. Either way they are on more solid financial footing.

I'm a Petrov fan but his year-to-year finances seem tenuous, so it may be safer to go with Senna.

[zako85]

It would have been cool to see Petrov at Marussia. Marussia is not only Russian owned, but rumor is, partially Russian staffed. If Petrov was at Marussia, the team popularity would rise in popularity in Russia and I think Russian sponsors would take a note.

Regardless of whom they hire, I can't blame Marussia for those decisions as they really need the money to survive, and their share of TV rights money has always been very small since they never took a 10th place in WCC. I am surprised more with Caterham's likely decision not to retain at least one of their 2012 drivers. IMHO, Petrov, Glock, and Kovalainen really deserve at least a solid mid-field drive. Caterham and Marussia were lucky to be able to receive their services for just pennies on the dollar.

[rjbetty]

Just some thoughts on the last few posts:

I don't agree Kobayashi was on a par with Perez. Perez was better in qualifying, 11-9 though he has a season's less experience. Though he didn't have a high of starting 2nd at Spa, there were plenty of times he demolished Kobayashi in qualifying, and his average time was better overall.

It's a bit of an aberration that Perez spoiled the end of his season. Until then, he had roughly twice the points of Kobayashi. Kobayashi looked too much to me like he was letting his head drop just because he couldn't handle his team-mate. That is not top-team material.

Contrary to belief, I think Perez may have won Malaysia even with the radio-induced mistake. The team failing to pit him on the right lap cost him more time. He also came close to winning Canada and Monza. Kobayashi never came close to winning, and the one good podium he did get, he held on to by the skin of his teeth, whereas with each of Perez's podiums, he was hounding people in front and overtaking and only a lack of laps kept him from winning each one. Kobayashi had a good 5th place at Barcelona, but Perez's misfortune cost him another likely podium.

It's not just number of points scored that represents the true gap between drivers - Michael Schumacher knows that (it's a bit different when it's a massive gap like Massa to Alonso).

I do like Kobayashi though, but I only ranked him 16th in the other thread because I felt 15 people did a better job than him last year. I do think it's harsh that he's out of a drive, but feel he is a little over-rated in general. I think in truth he's on the level of Petrov, maybe just slightly better. I would probably rate him ahead of Glock though, who I like.

I think Glock losing his drive is harsh, but it is a harsh reality. People will moan that the team aren't 'racers' but the fact is, if they don't have money, they won't be racing at all. It's a shame he seemed to handle the competiton from Pic badly, and didn't seem to take any encouragement from the team at least improving and having their best season yet in every way.

I think Karthikeyan is hugely underrated. I remember him in British F3, the way he pretty much dominated Brands in the wet, beating Jenson Button. Narain has always shone in the wet - a sign of talent. I'd say he's about +1.2/1.3sec off the pace of Hamilton/Vettel as a driver, the rest is the car. That's not great, but hardly anywhere as atrocious as people make out.

People always pick on the last guy in F1, whoever it is. I remember when Tarso Marques got that treatment.

Hoping Marussia pick at least a half decent driver like Buemi. Hoping that Chilton doesn't crash a lot, incurring repairs, or I will be very disappointed.

[zako85]

If we see that Petrov, Kovalainen, Glock, Kobayashi, etc, lose their seats for 2013, there is a good chance that some of them will make a come back the next year. It's not entirely infeasible to predict that some of the teams will become disenchanted with their pay drivers and long for more proven, more accomplished drivers, even if they may not be the fastest. This has certainly happened before. Hulkenberg and Raikkonen already made a comeback, and Sutil may also return. I can see Kobayashi coming back in 2014. All he needs is to work a bit harder to get sponsors. He is obviously fairly popular in Japan after his podium.

[N. Jones]

Just some thoughts on the last few posts:

I don't agree Kobayashi was on a par with Perez. Perez was better in qualifying, 11-9 though he has a season's less experience. Though he didn't have a high of starting 2nd at Spa, there were plenty of times he demolished Kobayashi in qualifying, and his average time was better overall.

It's a bit of an aberration that Perez spoiled the end of his season. Until then, he had roughly twice the points of Kobayashi. Kobayashi looked too much to me like he was letting his head drop just because he couldn't handle his team-mate. That is not top-team material.

Contrary to belief, I think Perez may have won Malaysia even with the radio-induced mistake. The team failing to pit him on the right lap cost him more time. He also came close to winning Canada and Monza. Kobayashi never came close to winning, and the one good podium he did get, he held on to by the skin of his teeth, whereas with each of Perez's podiums, he was hounding people in front and overtaking and only a lack of laps kept him from winning each one. Kobayashi had a good 5th place at Barcelona, but Perez's misfortune cost him another likely podium.

It's not just number of points scored that represents the true gap between drivers - Michael Schumacher knows that (it's a bit different when it's a massive gap like Massa to Alonso).

I do like Kobayashi though, but I only ranked him 16th in the other thread because I felt 15 people did a better job than him last year. I do think it's harsh that he's out of a drive, but feel he is a little over-rated in general. I think in truth he's on the level of Petrov, maybe just slightly better. I would probably rate him ahead of Glock though, who I like.



I can't disagree more with this. Kobayashi was six points off of Perez, was close to him in qualy, and had some spirited drives, although Perez did have a few more.

Was he on par? No. He was close. Being close to a man who is going to a top team.
If Perez is going to McLaren, who should have signed Hulkenberg IMO, Kobayashi should be driving for Force India, where I think he would have excelled. Heck, even at Williams he would score points.

[rjbetty]

I can't disagree more with this. Kobayashi was six points off of Perez, was close to him in qualy, and had some spirited drives, although Perez did have a few more.

Was he on par? No. He was close. Being close to a man who is going to a top team.
If Perez is going to McLaren, who should have signed Hulkenberg IMO, Kobayashi should be driving for Force India, where I think he would have excelled. Heck, even at Williams he would score points.

Ok that's a very reasonable argument. Yeah I do think the gap wasn't huge, but I think what McLaren are seeing is that Perez did what he did in his 2nd season while Kobayashi was in his 3rd (also 2 races in 2009). So a more accurate picture might be given by comparing the 2013 Perez against 2012 Kobayashi, or 2012 Perez against 2011 Kamui, though I don't see how that could be done objectively.

I actually don't have anything against Kamui and would have liked him to at least get a Caterham drive. But I do feel "spectacular" drivers tend to get rated slightly higher than their actual level. I felt the same about Montoya: Many would have you believe he was equal to or better than Michael Schumacher. I believe that is absolute tosh. Also, Nigel Mansell was said to be the best driver in the world - when Senna and Prost were still around!!

[RS]

Van de Garde confirmed at Caterham: Giedo van der Garde secures second Caterham F1 seat - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105365)

Now just two seats left and loads of drivers with money to fill them.

There is certainly room on the grid for that Scorpion/HRT team.

[truefan72]

Van de Garde confirmed at Caterham: Giedo van der Garde secures second Caterham F1 seat - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105365)

Now just two seats left and loads of drivers with money to fill them.

There is certainly room on the grid for that Scorpion/HRT team.

poor decision IMO
shame HRT and that 14th team are not in F1 2013. how things would have been different if prodrive where on the grid instead of usf1 never making it out of the starting blocks.

[CNR]

poor decision IMO
shame HRT and that 14th team are not in F1 2013. how things would have been different if prodrive where on the grid instead of usf1 never making it out of the starting blocks.I think prodrive is in financial trouble prodrive (http://www.prodrive.com/p_releases.html?id=367)
Prodrive has sold its Australian racing business, Ford Performance Racing (FPR)

[CNR]

what is going on with Force India Di Resta flies solo at Force India F1 launch Di Resta flies solo at Force India F1 launch - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/more-sports/di-resta-flies-solo-at-force-india-f1-launch/article8102969/)
Force India gave their new Formula One car its track debut on Friday with only one driver, Britain’s Paul Di Resta, confirmed for the season and mystery surrounding the identity of his eventual team mate. no 2nd or reserve drivers

[dj_bytedisaster]

And the funny thing is, di Resta could be booted,too. If the team is bought out by Colles and his investors as has been roumored for two week, he'll be swapped for a paydriver

[truefan72]

what is going on with Force India Di Resta flies solo at Force India F1 launch Di Resta flies solo at Force India F1 launch - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/more-sports/di-resta-flies-solo-at-force-india-f1-launch/article8102969/) no 2nd or reserve drivers

I know, its rather lame from them
I mean just sign sutil FFS

Its unlikely bianchi will be occupying the race seat, unless Ferrari give them some money
I'd love to see Sutil back as I rank him highly and he would probably get the better of PDR
another solid driver would be kobayashi

anything other than these two would be a let down.
They obviously do not think much of valsechi who a month ago would seem like the obvious choice for that 2nd seat, based on his GP2 win and probably relative cheap asking price.

[N. Jones]

So, at the moment there are still open seats at Force India and Marussia?

[rjbetty]

Apparently Paul di Resta has let the cat out of the bag that he will be joined by Bruno Senna who will take the 2nd Force India seat (needs confirming).

It looks like the deal is done for Luis Razia to take the final seat at Marussia.

The source for both is Twitter I think, apparently.

[truefan72]

Apparently Paul di Resta has let the cat out of the bag that he will be joined by Bruno Senna who will take the 2nd Force India seat (needs confirming).

It looks like the deal is done for Luis Razia to take the final seat at Marussia.

The source for both is Twitter I think, apparently.

that's what I;m hearing too

i mean how many lives does Bruno senna Have?
jeezums, There are half a dozen better drivers out there

is his money really that much of a factor?
Having bruno senna is like ensuring that PDR will be a clear cut #1
and apart from the occasional solid performance, senna will toil in the p10-15 consistently

[steveaki13]

Seems as though Razia is pretty certain now. I have been reading his name on a couple of sites. He has been saying hes happy to have a race seat (despite not being confirmed?)


It appears Marussia will officially announce it at their car Launch.

As for Bruno Senna not confirmed but now also likely.

[dj_bytedisaster]

If Bruno Senna gets that second seat, it will be a complete travesty. He's done diddly squat to warrant his continued presence in Formula 1 and that would prove it to be an entirely money-driven decision. If you can have a guy with Sutil's talent and experience, who only brings sponsorship money and then go for a slowpoke like Senna, I would hazard a guess that the decision makers at FI also roam the city at night, licking windows.
I'ver always like that team for their tendency to produce great drives at least once a year (Hulkenberg in Brazil last year, Fisi at Spa '09, Sutil at Monaco 10 come to mind), but if they go through with that travesty, they'll be on my **** list. That needs a refill anyways as its former only entry HRT is gone.

[rjbetty]

I think Senna is kind of like the Matthew Wilson of F1; pretty good, but... you feel it would be good to see something more - a standout performance. I also feel with Bruno that with his personality, he would respond better to support from fans rather than just being torn down. I'd guess that's true of Matt too (though I don't know enough about him. The WRC's profile is not good...)

As for Sutil, well his performance always seemed to never be better than about +0.5sec off on average over a season. That's pretty good, but not enough to be a regular winner. I don't know how much more he could improve. Unforunately, with a year out he would likely be rusty and probably no better than Bruno Senna if that was the case...

[rjbetty]

...I mean how many lives does Bruno senna Have?

Is his money really that much of a factor?
Having bruno senna is like ensuring that PDR will be a clear cut #1
and apart from the occasional solid performance, senna will toil in the p10-15 consistently

I used to think the same thing about Jos Verstappen about lives - but he ran out in the end. That was due to having a dodgy manager, so the seat that would have been his at Jordan for '04 went to pay driver Giorgio Pantano instead.

Funny how things are the same now as then... :)

[jens]

So we have Pic, van der Garde, Razia and Chilton at the back of the field. All of them have recently been in GP2 and we can have a little comparison again in F1. Overall I consider none of them to be spectacular and I don't think any of them moves up the grid (which means they will likely face the fate of d'Ambrosio, di Grassi one day), but I also don't think there is a significant difference in ability between those drivers, so if Caterhams and Marussias are close in performance, we could get at least some close battles at the back.

In 2011 Pic and vd Garde were team-mates in GP2. Based on that Pic was slightly impressive, because he was less experienced than vd Garde at that stage, even if in terms of performance they were pretty much matched.

Second Force India seat? Well, looks like Bianchi is likely. Strange that they are taking such a long time to finalize the deal though. What are the obstacles?

[truefan72]

Second Force India seat? Well, looks like Bianchi is likely. Strange that they are taking such a long time to finalize the deal though. What are the obstacles?
bruno senna's money

[CNR]

Strange that they are taking such a long time to finalize the deal though. What are the obstacles?Finally grounded: Kingfisher Airlines loses flying permit : India, News - India Today (http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/kingfisher-airlines-loses-flying-permit/1/240293.html)
Finally grounded: Kingfisher Airlines loses flying permit

[RS]

Isn't Mallya still a rich man despite the failure of Kingfisher or is he really in trouble?

[truefan72]

Isn't Mallya still a rich man despite the failure of Kingfisher or is he really in trouble?

you are right Mallya is still a very rich man,In fact he isn't complaining much about the grounding of Kingfisher airlines, as it probably was draining his resources.
and the value of the stock. But shame on the employees. When he sells that mega yacht out of necessity then we will know he is in trouble. For now he is still flush with cash. Although he might not extend those deep funds solely for the f1 team. He is a business man after all, and probably if he gets a good deal, I m sure he will sell the team overnight.

[A FONDO]

I think Senna is kind of like the Matthew Wilson of F1;
Yes they are both a disgrace in their discipline but they both have the nessecary backing :dozey:

[Garry Walker]

If Bruno Senna gets that second seat, it will be a complete travesty. He's done diddly squat to warrant his continued presence in Formula 1 and that would prove it to be an entirely money-driven decision. If you can have a guy with Sutil's talent and experience, who only brings sponsorship money and then go for a slowpoke like Senna, I would hazard a guess that the decision makers at FI also roam the city at night, licking windows. Slasher has only one person to blame for him not having a seat and not deserving it ever again. He is plenty good enough for it talentwise, but when you do something like he did, he deserves no seat in F1 anymore. Simple as that. Sad really that he ruined his life and career in f1 with one stupid act.



As for Sutil, well his performance always seemed to never be better than about +0.5sec off on average over a season. That's pretty good, but not enough to be a regular winner.
You put him in a clearly best car like Red Bull has had since 2009 and see how he suddenly turns into a winner.

[CNR]

give the force india seat to Kamui Kobayashi F1: Force India Driver Still Not Named (http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-force-india-driver-still-not-named/)
Force India eying Jules Bianchi, Adrian Sutil, Kamui Kobayashi or Bruno Senna

[rjbetty]

You put him in a clearly best car like Red Bull has had since 2009 and see how he suddenly turns into a winner.

Yeah I think he can win, but just once or twice. I said I don't think he'd be a regular winner. ;) Though I like Sutil, I think the gap between him and Hamilton as F3 team-mates was pretty representative.

[rjbetty]

Yes they are both a disgrace in their discipline but they both have the nessecary backing :dozey:

I don't think that's fair: Senna is way better than a disgrace and is missing so much experience. I think he can really bloom if he can just keep getting experience. As for Wilson, I feel he could have done much better in lower classes where he could have got better results and grown in confidence. It just seems so much more natural to grow that way. We'll see what he can do in WRC2 this year; I think he will do better than people expect or give him credit for.

[airshifter]

give the force india seat to Kamui Kobayashi F1: Force India Driver Still Not Named (http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-force-india-driver-still-not-named/)

I hate to see Kobayashi out of a seat.... give him a ride!

[Nikki Katz]

It's not Senna! Bruno Senna leaves F1 for Aston Martin Le Mans and WEC drive - Le Mans news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105434)

Didn't see that coming.

[truefan72]

It's not Senna! Bruno Senna leaves F1 for Aston Martin Le Mans and WEC drive - Le Mans news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105434)

Didn't see that coming.

me neither!

probably Bianchi's seat to lose

as to senna in the article he says: "I want to move forward and get back to winning races," Senna told AUTOSPORT. "The opportunities weren't there to do that in Formula 1."

i hope he is referring to opportunities in 2013 and not his career in total because the 2012 Williams was a race winning car and Maldonado if he kept his nose tidy might have snuck in a second victory with that car.
I for one am glad he has moved on.

[rjbetty]

me neither!

probably Bianchi's seat to lose

as to senna in the article he says: "I want to move forward and get back to winning races," Senna told AUTOSPORT. "The opportunities weren't there to do that in Formula 1."

i hope he is referring to opportunities in 2013 and not his career in total because the 2012 Williams was a race winning car and Maldonado if he kept his nose tidy might have snuck in a second victory with that car.
I for one am glad he has moved on.

I had been thinking I was too hasty in taking it as fact that Bruno had the seat. That was bad reporting by me... sorry guys :(

Yeah I'm expecting Bianchi is gonna get that drive after all.

[RS]

Alguersuari; F1's biggest sulker or just naive? Almost exactly the same story last year: Jaime Alguersuari frustrated to lose 2013 Formula 1 chance - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105588)

[N. Jones]

I can't say that Jamie did very much with what he had. His only hope is to see more teams in F1, which I doubt will happen any time soon.

[52Paddy]

Alguersuari; F1's biggest sulker or just naive? Almost exactly the same story last year: Jaime Alguersuari frustrated to lose 2013 Formula 1 chance - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105588)

Come on, it's a perfectly natural reaction from Jaime. The guy is clearly determined to get back into F1 and, having sat out a year, he's itching to get back behind the wheel. Now, he's faced with another year on the sidelines and, at 22 years old (crazy to think he's the same age as me and at that level - what have I done with my life? :P), he should be out showing the world how competitive he is. I've no doubt that the man has talent and he has proven that with some good drives in his, so far, short career. He's more deserving of a seat that a lot of pay-drivers hired for the new season and he's simply ticked off that they've been chosen over him. Many other drivers are in the same position and his response to it is completely understandable...especially if he was, in fact, led to believe a seat at Force India was secure.

[Garry Walker]

Yeah I think he can win, but just once or twice. I said I don't think he'd be a regular winner. ;) Though I like Sutil, I think the gap between him and Hamilton as F3 team-mates was pretty representative.
If Sutil had been in RedBull since 2008 and was loved by OneEye, he would probably be a 4 times WDC. But sadly for him, the seat and love from OneEye was taken by another prick from germany.

Alguersuari; F1's biggest sulker or just naive? Almost exactly the same story last year: Jaime Alguersuari frustrated to lose 2013 Formula 1 chance - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105588)
He is a funny guy.

Come on, it's a perfectly natural reaction from Jaime. The guy is clearly determined to get back into F1 and, having sat out a year, he's itching to get back behind the wheel. Now, he's faced with another year on the sidelines and, at 22 years old (crazy to think he's the same age as me and at that level - what have I done with my life? :P), he should be out showing the world how competitive he is. I've no doubt that the man has talent and he has proven that with some good drives in his, so far, short career. He's more deserving of a seat that a lot of pay-drivers hired for the new season and he's simply ticked off that they've been chosen over him. Many other drivers are in the same position and his response to it is completely understandable...especially if he was, in fact, led to believe a seat at Force India was secure.
I loved the part about him saying it was incomprehensible RedBull dumped him last year. What was so surprising about that? The guy had hi chaces, he did little. F1 is not charity.

[RS]

Come on, it's a perfectly natural reaction from Jaime. The guy is clearly determined to get back into F1 and, having sat out a year, he's itching to get back behind the wheel. Now, he's faced with another year on the sidelines and, at 22 years old (crazy to think he's the same age as me and at that level - what have I done with my life? :P), he should be out showing the world how competitive he is. I've no doubt that the man has talent and he has proven that with some good drives in his, so far, short career. He's more deserving of a seat that a lot of pay-drivers hired for the new season and he's simply ticked off that they've been chosen over him. Many other drivers are in the same position and his response to it is completely understandable...especially if he was, in fact, led to believe a seat at Force India was secure.

I'm not saying he hasn't got talent, and I'm sure it is very frustrating for him but to think you're safe on a verbal agreement in F1 is rather naive. Perhaps he should get himself a new manager?

[rjbetty]

I think Jaime probably shows at least as much as or more potential than say, the great, the amazing, the one and only KOBAYASHI for example.

This is considering his age; a very old head on young shoulders. What impressed me most about Jaime was his rate of improvement from season to season.

I do think both these drivers are on a similar level, but I'm just interested at the gulf in perception between them. If Jaime was only more "spectacular" he would have a great chance.

We all know that Nigel Mansell and Juan-Pablo Montoya are the 2 greatest drivers in history. ;) [sarcasm baby]

[52Paddy]

I loved the part about him saying it was incomprehensible RedBull dumped him last year. What was so surprising about that? The guy had hi chaces, he did little. F1 is not charity.

It's a bit harsh saying he "did little". He was saddled with a midfield car and drove beyond the car on occasion. Ok, nothing like Vettel at Monza a few years ago, but he wasn't plateauing or getting any worse. A bit more experience behind the wheel would have done wonders for him, especially considering his age. I'd love to see Jaime mix it Hulkenberg, Di Resta, Maldonado etc this year but instead we've got the possibility of having Karthikeyan or the lesser proven Jules Bianchi. If the seat goes to Sutil, I won't be as disappointed but I still think Jaime's talent merits a drive.


I'm not saying he hasn't got talent, and I'm sure it is very frustrating for him but to think you're safe on a verbal agreement in F1 is rather naive. Perhaps he should get himself a new manager?

Yeah, Eddie Jordan fell into that trap back in 1991 when Schumacher escaped to Benneton. It is surprising that there was nothing more substantial to the deal. I always thought Jaime had a good strong head on his shoulders, relative to his age.

[52Paddy]

I think Jaime probably shows at least as much as or more potential than say, the great, the amazing, the one and only KOBAYASHI for example.

This is considering his age; a very old head on young shoulders. What impressed me most about Jaime was his rate of improvement from season to season.

I do think both these drivers are on a similar level, but I'm just interested at the gulf in perception between them. If Jaime was only more "spectacular" he would have a great chance.

Wouldn't you agree that Kobayashi was 'spectacular' driver (from a spectator's point of view)? He's left in limbo now too. I just feel that Jaime could build up to a really successful career.

[dj_bytedisaster]

If Sutil had been in RedBull since 2008 and was loved by OneEye, he would probably be a 4 times WDC. But sadly for him, the seat and love from OneEye was taken by another prick from germany.
.

Could you for once stop your hating you miserable git? I've had it with your constant negativity. And yes, as a German I feel greatly offended by statements like that.

[Bagwan]

Could you for once stop your hating you miserable git? I've had it with your constant negativity. And yes, as a German I feel greatly offended by statements like that.

I'm not absolutely sure , because I'm not Garry , but I didn't interpret that "prick from Germany" as saying that all Germans were pricks , if that's what you're implying he said .

From the implied venom in that post for those involved in that team , it sounds likely that he might have yacked on his keyboard at that moment , had he tried to actually type the name of that "prick" .

If you apply the standard PC filter to Garry's posts , it comes out saying that he feels that Vettel is the favourite and that Red Bull is a one car team , and that he sees this as somewhat distasteful .

But , you know , I much prefer the version without the filter .

[52Paddy]

I'm not absolutely sure , because I'm not Garry , but I didn't interpret that "prick from Germany" as saying that all Germans were pricks , if that's what you're implying he said .

From the implied venom in that post for those involved in that team , it sounds likely that he might have yacked on his keyboard at that moment , had he tried to actually type the name of that "prick" .

If you apply the standard PC filter to Garry's posts , it comes out saying that he feels that Vettel is the favourite and that Red Bull is a one car team , and that he sees this as somewhat distasteful .

But , you know , I much prefer the version without the filter .

Regardless of whether he meant to offend Germans or not, I think it's a pretty childish way of venting opinion on, what's supposed to be, a "family forum". I mean, keep it for status updates on facebook or something. Here, that tone comes across as arrogant and rude to some (and I would guess, most). Just no need for it lads.

[BDunnell]

I'm not absolutely sure , because I'm not Garry , but I didn't interpret that "prick from Germany" as saying that all Germans were pricks , if that's what you're implying he said .

From the implied venom in that post for those involved in that team , it sounds likely that he might have yacked on his keyboard at that moment , had he tried to actually type the name of that "prick" .

If you apply the standard PC filter to Garry's posts , it comes out saying that he feels that Vettel is the favourite and that Red Bull is a one car team , and that he sees this as somewhat distasteful .

But , you know , I much prefer the version without the filter .

What does this have to do with 'being PC'? To my mind, he wasn't anti-German, just miserable, negative and rude. None of these are good traits.

[steveaki13]

I have to agree. It is a bit tiresome. Round and round in circles.

I think Garry doesn't like Vettel.

[Knock-on]

Garza can think what he likes about Vettel. Personally I think Sutil is a prick for attacking people with broken bottles and Schumy has had a career dominated by prickness on a regular basis. The fact they are both German is by no way racist. Alonso was a prick for covering up the dossier with PdlR and being stupid enough to try and bribe Ron, Hamilton was a prick for lying, Rubins was a prick for being a Lapdog, the drivers and management of Renault were an acupuncture of prickness for Crashgate etc, etc.

As far as I know, expressing a view of a driver is ok but personal insults against members are not although expressing an opinion on them is tolerable ;)

[dj_bytedisaster]

Nobody said you can't have an opinion, but there should be a limit. That Garry isn't very fond of Vettel is well know to everybody, because he manages to convey that piece of information in 80% of his posts, whether it has to do with the thread topic or not. I'm not particularly fond of Alonso and Karthikeyan, but that doesn't mean I need to repeat that whenever I post something. That's what annoys me.
Having a favourite driver or team is ok, but if it leads to automatically hating every other opponent, it is rather unhealthy. But that's of course only my opinion.

[pino]

Regardless of whether he meant to offend Germans or not, I think it's a pretty childish way of venting opinion on, what's supposed to be, a "family forum". I mean, keep it for status updates on facebook or something. Here, that tone comes across as arrogant and rude to some (and I would guess, most). Just no need for it lads.


What does this have to do with 'being PC'? To my mind, he wasn't anti-German, just miserable, negative and rude. None of these are good traits.

I agree with both of you and will do my best to make sure we wont read such a post in the future :)

[pino]

Now enough of that crap and back to racing-talk please ;)

[Garry Walker]

Could you for once stop your hating you miserable git? I've had it with your constant negativity. And yes, as a German I feel greatly offended by statements like that.
That is your right to be offended. Personally, my dear, I don't give a damn.


I'm not absolutely sure , because I'm not Garry , but I didn't interpret that "prick from Germany" as saying that all Germans were pricks , if that's what you're implying he said .
Well, Schumacher is my favourite driver and german biathletes all belong amont my favourite biathletes, so obviously I have very deep hatred of all germans :D




As far as I know, expressing a view of a driver is ok but personal insults against members are not although expressing an opinion on them is tolerable ;)
I thought so too, but as life as on many occasions taught us all, if you bitch long enough and cry long enough, someone will listen. Lecture nr.1 - Crying wolf does pay off.


Nobody said you can't have an opinion, but there should be a limit.

LOL. Good one. Thats my new signature.

[RS]

They interviewed Bob Fearnley of Force India on the Sky testing report tonight and he confirmed they vacant drive is for Sutil or Bianchi, so no Karthikeyan...

[RS]

Problems or delays with Razia's deal? I am surprised he hasn't tested this week IIRC?

[52Paddy]

Problems or delays with Razia's deal? I am surprised he hasn't tested this week IIRC?

He tested at Jerez so don't think there's any contractual issues.

[steveaki13]

Hope not, it would be a shame if he was to lose his chance now, probably just the way the schedule worked out. He will probably get most of the final test I would guess

[Tazio]

It's still a rumor, but reports are comming in that FI have chosen Slash!

La Parisien newspaper and the Times of India also carried reports that Sutil has won the race seat, citing Bianchi's manager Nicolas Todt as confirming the latest reports. Todt, whose father Jean is the FIA president, added that he did not know whether Force India would now retain Bianchi as their third driver in that event.
:up: IMO :)

[CNR]

Red Bull

Vettel

Webber



McLaren

Button

Perez



Ferrari

Alonso

Massa



Lotus

Raikkonen

Grosjean



Mercedes

Hamilton

Rosberg



Williams

Maldonado

Bottas



Force India

di Resta

Sutil



Toro Rosso

Ricciardo

Vergne



Sauber

Hulkenberg

Gutierrez



Caterham

van der Garde

Pic



Marussia

Chilton

Razia



HRT

XXXXX

XXXXX



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula-one/21611416

Adrian Sutil appears to have won the race for the final seat available in Formula 1 this season at Force India.




The 30-year-old was in competition with the team's reserve driver, Frenchman Jules Bianchi.


Bianchi's manager Nicolas Todt said on Wednesday he had
not got the seat: "Jules Bianchi will not be Paul Di Resta's
team-mate."

Force India, who embark on a final pre-season test on Thursday, said they were not yet in a position to comment.

[RS]

I think Sutil is the right choice. Force India are in the competitive midfield and they can't afford to gamble away points on an unproven driver. Sutil also appeared to be quick in last week's test and brings money too.

[truefan72]

I think Sutil is the right choice. Force India are in the competitive midfield and they can't afford to gamble away points on an unproven driver. Sutil also appeared to be quick in last week's test and brings money too.

yes

I too think this was the right decision

[dj_bytedisaster]

According to German media the final decision was partially down to engines. Bianchi is a Ferrari protegé, while Sutil has strong ties with Mercedes. Guess that's a clear hint that FI will stay with Merc engines for 2014. I do think however that most of it was down to Sutils experience. Being faster than Bianchi in last weeks test while running the same testing program (tire and fuel-wise) probably helped a lot, too.

[RS]

Hope not, it would be a shame if he was to lose his chance now, probably just the way the schedule worked out. He will probably get most of the final test I would guess

Chilton is in the car again today...

[rjbetty]

I think Sutil is the right choice. Force India are in the competitive midfield and they can't afford to gamble away points on an unproven driver. Sutil also appeared to be quick in last week's test and brings money too.

This is great news! And it's encouraging to see the team going for talent over 'money' given how the winter has been.
This is a very fortunate second chance for Sutil and I hope he makes the most of it.

[rjbetty]

So who's gonna get the Marussia seat? Hopefully they will give a call to Mr Petrov! Surely someone Russian has to give him some cash for the Russian team.

But there's also a good Japanese driver around at the moment with a cool million to spare. He might perform a little bit better if he has a team-mate he can easily beat.

[rjbetty]

So who's gonna get the Marussia seat? Hopefully they will give a call to Mr Petrov! Surely someone Russian has to give him some cash for the Russian team.

But there's also a good Japanese driver around at the moment with a cool million to spare. He might perform a little bit better if he has a team-mate he can easily beat.

I wonder if Alex Schnaider would ever want to have an involvement with Petrov and Marussia. It could work well.

[Garry Walker]

According to German media the final decision was partially down to engines. Bianchi is a Ferrari protegé, while Sutil has strong ties with Mercedes. Guess that's a clear hint that FI will stay with Merc engines for 2014. I do think however that most of it was down to Sutils experience. Being faster than Bianchi in last weeks test while running the same testing program (tire and fuel-wise) probably helped a lot, too.

No comparison can be made between them. Bianchi tested when it had rained overnight (and it was still wet in the morning), so the times are not comparable at all. Everyone was much slower on friday. Besides, The Slasher did almost 80 laps, Bianci did 23. So I have no idea where you got the "same testing program" story.
But his experience clearly won the seat for The Slasher. Always sad when a criminal gets something he doesn't deserve.

[rjbetty]

OMGosh, just read this by Lee McKenzie on the BBC website!!

In the wake of the obvious problems between Luiz Razia and Marussia, (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21618004) the rumour is that Heikki Kovalainen is having a seat fitting with Marussia tonight."

BBC Sport - Final pre-season testing (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21612706)

(between 13:42 and 13:36)


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21618004 - This link is better. I don't know how old this news is though for people reading.

[Garry Walker]

OMGosh, just read this by Lee McKenzie on the BBC website!!

In the wake of the obvious problems between Luiz Razia and Marussia, (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21618004) the rumour is that Heikki Kovalainen is having a seat fitting with Marussia tonight."
.

I can just see how some will now go crazy and say how much HK deserves this seat. I agree, that seat he deserves indeed. He doesn't deserve a seat at a better team though.

[Knock-on]

Gazza, you're on fire today fella :up:

Mind you, I don't mind seeing slasher back. Good driver that might spice things up and let's hope he gets soundly thrashed by his team mate. I really hope so but my head isn't so sure :(

[Garry Walker]

Gazza, you're on fire today fella :up:

Mind you, I don't mind seeing slasher back. Good driver that might spice things up and let's hope he gets soundly thrashed by his team mate. I really hope so but my head isn't so sure :(

I don't mind Sutil as a driver. He is good enough talentwise. But his actions (what kind of a man would injure another man with a champagne glass? That is just so pathetic) mean that in my view, such a person does not deserve a place in F1. There should be personal accountability.

[Malbec]

I don't mind Sutil as a driver. He is good enough talentwise. But his actions (what kind of a man would injure another man with a champagne glass? That is just so pathetic) mean that in my view, such a person does not deserve a place in F1. There should be personal accountability.

One also has to take him and his lawyers at their word when they claim that his conviction will not be a problem entering certain countries. Canada and Japan do not have a liberal view of letting in people with criminal convictions into their country. It would be extremely embarrassing indeed for FI to have one of their drivers unable to race for that reason.

Personally I think Sutil is a dull choice. There are plenty of quick talented drivers out there who are not tainted with a criminal conviction, or maybe Mallya thinks Sutil is a bit of a kindred spirit?

[dj_bytedisaster]

I don't mind Sutil as a driver. He is good enough talentwise. But his actions (what kind of a man would injure another man with a champagne glass? That is just so pathetic) mean that in my view, such a person does not deserve a place in F1. There should be personal accountability.

What kind of man would sprout hatred, negativity and just general misery at every possible opportunity and if there is none, he does so regardless? We don't know what happened in that bar. Hamilton does, but McMerc prevented him from testifying and if you would want to injure a man, would you chose a flimsy champaign glass or - lets say - a more sunstantial bottle? And that's not even counting the fact that we don't know Lux's part in this - a scuffle usually involves two. But telling that to you is as useless as rooting for a onelegged man at an arsekicking contest. Your hatred is set in stone, because he's German and the funny thing is - he's only half German to begin with.

[RS]

Maybe Marussia can take Bianchi. After all they need an engine for next year...

[Garry Walker]

What kind of man would sprout hatred, negativity and just general misery at every possible opportunity and if there is none, he does so regardless? We don't know what happened in that bar. Hamilton does, but McMerc prevented him from testifying and if you would want to injure a man, would you chose a flimsy champaign glass or - lets say - a more sunstantial bottle? And that's not even counting the fact that we don't know Lux's part in this - a scuffle usually involves two. But telling that to you is as useless as rooting for a onelegged man at an arsekicking contest. Your hatred is set in stone, because he's German and the funny thing is - he's only half German to begin with.

2 things I would like to say to you:

1) Sutil was convicted in court of a criminal charge, right? So I have the right to call him a criminal, because he is one.
2) Your mother really should consider finally weaning you.

[truefan72]

I can just see how some will now go crazy and say how much HK deserves this seat. I agree, that seat he deserves indeed. He doesn't deserve a seat at a better team though.

lol
for once, we agree Garry

[keysersoze]

I can just see how some will now go crazy and say how much HK deserves this seat. I agree, that seat he deserves indeed. He doesn't deserve a seat at a better team though.

Marussia seems a quicker car than the Caterham at the moment, customer Cosworth and all. So I guess HK doesn't deserve a seat at all.

[henners88]

I don't mind Sutil as a driver. He is good enough talentwise. But his actions (what kind of a man would injure another man with a champagne glass?
Never been in a scuffle in a bar when you've had a pint glass in your hand? I think most guys experience something like that in their lives and it could have gone either way. Adrian was unlucky IMO. The guy he injured was going for him and had started the argument apparently. What happened wasn't a justified act but Sutil didn't intend to use his glass as a weapon. I don't think he should be made to pay with his career because of something unfortunate and especially considering all parties have settled.

[DexDexter]

So Sutil's in, excellent news since we need fast, experienced drivers in F1. If Heikki gets Razia's seat, that's even better since these paydrivers do nothing good for F1.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Never been in a scuffle in a bar when you've had a pint glass in your hand?

I doubt he ever was. Considering his miserable and negative attitude he shows whenever he uses the POST button, I doubt he would ever go to a place where people have fun. :D

[truefan72]

Razia out and Bianchi in
I wonder how much money Bianchi is bringing to the table, apparently it is not the minimum $5 million
but probably more than what Razai managed to bring

This is certainly a blow for Rzaia, but also opens up questions about his financial backers.
In a perfect world, he wouldn't have to need any, but this is the world we live in

Then again the only reason Marussia got rid of Glock, and discounted some other drivers (i'm not sure petrov, kobayashi, Alguarsari were interested in that seat) was because they thought Razia was going to bring money to the team as a pay driver, and I guess he couldn't deliver on that. Senna might have been a good choice, but I'm not sure he too was interested in that seat tbh.

This situation is entirely of Marrussia's making, and we will know see what a ferrari bought bianchi seat will do

[RS]

Marussia also talked to Karthikeyan apparantly.

Looks like Ferrari engines for Marussia next year then!

[steveaki13]

Are Marussia talking to Villeneuve Yet?

Shame for Razia, but Heikki is a class act so he is a realible pilot.

[Nikki Katz]

Sounds like Bianchi's got Razia's seat.

He's a 3rd generation driver isn't he - am I being stupid or is he the first in F1?

[DexDexter]

Bianchi is not a bad choice, he has good pedigree in junior formula so he deserves his chance.

[rjbetty]

Sounds like Bianchi's got Razia's seat.

He's a 3rd generation driver isn't he - am I being stupid or is he the first in F1?

Oh I completely forget Jules is related to Lucien Bianchi, but I don't think there's anyone between Lucien and Jules...


Bianchi is not a bad choice, he has good pedigree in junior formula so he deserves his chance.

I'm quite pleased with the choice as he's probably better and more prepared than Razia, having done testing. But it's still a real shame to be missing out on a driver who can make something out of by far Marussia's most competitive car yet.

[steveaki13]

Is that confirmed?

Is Bianchi now inplace of Razia and Kovalainen

[rjbetty]

Yup, the main sites have reported it.

Marussia says Luiz Razia release needed to secure financial future - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105791)

[steveaki13]

Yup, the main sites have reported it.

Marussia says Luiz Razia release needed to secure financial future - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105791)

Ah cheers for that.

Going to be an interesting battle at the back.

[truefan72]

Marussia also talked to Karthikeyan apparantly.

Looks like Ferrari engines for Marussia next year then!

indeed

[dj_bytedisaster]

Wouldn't you just hate to be aguy, who has to buy his way into F1, because talent alone won't cut it and then your sponsors can't cough up the dough *lol* good riddance. Don't let the door hit you on your way back out Mr. Razia :D

[Joey Zyla]

Wouldn't you just hate to be aguy, who has to buy his way into F1, because talent alone won't cut it and then your sponsors can't cough up the dough *lol* good riddance. Don't let the door hit you on your way back out Mr. Razia :D

Please go away, troll. :rolleyes:

[EuroTroll]

Please go away, troll. :rolleyes:

Whoa! That's a bit rich from a guy who joined the forum yesterday... :down:

dj_bytedisaster is a valued forumer, which is a lot more than can be said about you at this point..

[Joey Zyla]

Valued for what? Insulting people for no reason? If he's "valued" for that, I really couldn't care less what this forum thinks of me.

[EuroTroll]

Valued for what? Insulting people for no reason? If he's "valued" for that, I really couldn't care less what this forum thinks of me.

Who did he insult? Razia?

[Joey Zyla]

That's certainly how it sounded.

[EuroTroll]

That's certainly how it sounded.

The way I read that post, he was just being a little unkind. Typical forum banter... Don't take it so seriously. ;)

[Joey Zyla]

You have a good point. ;)

[dj_bytedisaster]

That's certainly how it sounded.

I certainly wasn't praising Razia, because he got his (temporary) seat for nothing else but his money - Marussia said as much. I don't like paydrivers. Mind you - there are paydrivers and paydrivers: People like Michael Schumacher, Sutil or Jules Bianchi have earned their sponsorship package with sheer speed. The fact that Ferrari is willing to pay money to a rival team to employ thair driver is saying a lot about what Ferrari thinks Bianchi is capable of. Mercedes once paid 800.000 bucks to enable Schumacher the one-off drive in the Jordan in 1991. And then there are people like Chilton, Karthikeyan or Razia, who try to substitute Millions for merit. For those people I dont have the least respect - the sooner they go, the better.

[Joey Zyla]

I'll put it this way: If you were about as talented as Razia, but had millions of dollars in sponsorship, and a Formula One team, Marussia for example, offered you a race seat, would you take it or leave it?

[dj_bytedisaster]

Of course I'd take it, but I wouldn't expect people to like it. People like Chilton and Razia pushed out much more talented people like Kovalainen and Glock - that's just wrong. I understand that this is how business works these days, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
And btw. Razia's Millions seemed to be entirely virtual, on talent alone they weren't willing to keep him, so he was kicked out, when the dough didn't come.

[Joey Zyla]

It's quite unfair to judge at this point, neither Chilton or Razia have actually driven in a race yet.

[dj_bytedisaster]

They have driven races in the past. Last year's GP2 was a paydriver-fest extra-ordinaire and they still only managed to come second and third. I think if you really want to see some talent, you have to look at the Renault World-Series. The GP2 is by now even worse paydriver-infested than F1.

[Joey Zyla]

They have driven races in the past. Last year's GP2 was a paydriver-fest extra-ordinaire and they still only managed to come second and third. I think if you really want to see some talent, you have to look at the Renault World-Series. The GP2 is by now even worse paydriver-infested than F1.

I'm sorry, but I had to have a little chuckle at that part. "Only" second and third? Even considering there were 26 drivers in each race?

[dj_bytedisaster]

I'm sorry, but I had to have a little chuckle at that part. "Only" second and third? Even considering there were 26 drivers in each race?

Last years GP2 was a joke. The field was the weakest I ever remember and I've been following it since it was still called Formula 3000 in 1989. Yes, 2nd and 3rd in that bunch is worth a dime and an egg from the Konsum...