2012 Belgian GP

[truefan72]

So FP1 was a wash
and FP2 is looking that way too

I love Spa but this is just unbearable.
I wonder what the temps were last weekend.
Perhaps that 4 week break was too long.

[Knock-on]

My mate says overcast and miserable but rain should sort itself out Saturday. Very cold though with problems getting the tyres to work without killing them in the first lap out. Should be interesting if someone has to defend an undercut

[steveaki13]

Shame for the fans over there, but it is going to be exciting for the remainder of the weekend as everyone has so much still to find out.

It is looking drier over the next few days but we know that you can never count your chickens at Spa.

[TheFamousEccles]

Is it me, or has rain been following F1 and MotoGP around at more than a few meetings this season? Don't get me wrong, comming from Australia I understand the worth of a good rainy season, but it sure is inconvenient on a race weekend. And it's been fecking up my track-days too. Grrrr stoopid rain.

[Warriwa]

I think it was a 5 week break. Far too long. Love this place. Webbo 5 place penalty.

[kfzmeister]

Webbo 5 place penalty.
Goooo Alonso!

[Garry Walker]

Webbo 5 place penalty.

Why am I not surprised?

[johnbull]

It is looking drier over the next few days but we know that you can never count your chickens at Spa.
_______________________
sportswear (http://www.oneclicksports.co.uk/)

[Koz]

Jesus... What the hell is Button on?!

[truefan72]

shocking!
Vettel out of Q3

[F1boat]

I think that a Sebi may need a help from a psychologist, he obviously is not being himself in recent races....

[donKey jote]

no Germans in Q3 :laugh:

[tfp]

Come on the iceman! Q2 where did jenson find that speed??

[F1boat]

Let's see whether Jenson can perform when it matters... I think that Lewis is favorite.

[donKey jote]

I think that a Sebi may need a help from a psychologist, he obviously is not being himself in recent races....

he is.
his car isn't :p

[F1boat]

he is.
his car isn't :p
Webber is quite fast

[truefan72]

where the heck is button finding this time
is it all in the low downforce setup?
then...did mclaren screw up Hamilton's setup?

[F1boat]

where the heck is button finding this time
is it all in the low downforce setup?
then...did mclaren screw up Hamilton's setup?
Maybe Jenson is faster on this track, even the best can lose sometimes.

[Zico]

Whitmarsh was suggesting earlier that they will likely use different downforce levels for each driver to "hedge their bets"... I suspect Button is the one running lower downforce and it seems to be working well for Qualy... but will it work as well in the race?

[F1boat]

What a lap for Jenson... beautiful.

[donKey jote]

Banzai ! :up: :eek: :laugh:

[tfp]

Kobayashi! How did he do that!!! Get in bunson! This is going to be a good race!

[donKey jote]

Webber is quite fast

He got Vetts car this year ;) :p

[Zico]

Congrats Jenson.. Well done, great lap.

...and Wow Koby!

[F1boat]

Maldonado again proved that he is very fast...

[donKey jote]

Seb shrugs his shoulders: "bit too slow"

[truefan72]

wow what a qualy session
1. congrats to button
2, shame Hamilton's car is on a higher downforce setup. If mclaren set both cars up properly then it would easily be a 1-2 on the grid, but as usual mclaren find some way to screw things up and choose to compromise their leading driver.
3. Wow, how did Kobayashi get to p2, wellperez is in p5 so thar sauber is fast in Spa
4. Maldonado surprisingly in p3...but he could drop if he gets a penalty for impeding
5. should be an interesting race tomorrow. Jenson looks like the fav, but the start will be critical

[truefan72]

Whitemarsh on the sky saying that "maybe they got that wrong" in terms of Hamilton's car setup
Now Hill is saying that it is more of a driver performance, which is laughable. No way Button is 8/10ths quicker than Hamilton, on any track

So the real issue is the rear Wing, as per Hamilton's interviews
apparently his side opted to go back to the old wing, while Button stuck with the new special wing for Spa and Monza
So fair is fair, Hamilton should have stuck with the new Wing. His fault then :(

[Koz]

Great stuff! We're in for an amazing race tomorrow!

[Robinho]

Button 1st, 2nd and 3rd on the grid, stunning return to form, very interesting grid, should make for a fascinating race, I wonder if there are a few of the championship contenders that have sacrificed qually pace for a quicker race car.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

[Tazio]

Three place grid penalty fo Igornado (blocking Hulkenberg)That puts Kimi and Fred on the clean side of the grid!

[pino]

Happy to see Jenson back on pole :up:

[donKey jote]

Three place grid penalty fo Igornado (blocking Hulkenberg)
is it 'cos he's South American? :p

[The Black Knight]

I was supposed to be going to the GP but had to pull out last minute :(

Congratulations to Jenson for a brilliant pole lap. He can bask in his glory for the short term until the next time the balance of the car isn't exactly to his liking. Fantastic lap. I was watching it from onboard and you won't see better lap around Spa. It was clear the car was set up perfectly. It goes to show that Jenson can do it when he is given a perfectly set up car but when he isn't given that, he is not top of the field. That's his Achilles heel unfortunately.

Shame that McLaren chose the wrong wing on Lewis car. He is very unlikely to win now and this would have been a GP where he most definitely could have won with the car he has. It's typical of the mistakes that McLaren have been making over the past couple of years though and one of the reasons I think Hamilton should move on. They get some races right, some wrong. They are never consistent enough to win a championship. If it isn't strategy, it's set up.

It's going to be an interesting race tomorrow.

Finally, a disgraceful performance from the Mercedes team. They can't hide behind the "we've made a big step this year" nonsense. Ferrari were behind them at the start of the year and are leading the championship with Alonso. It's simply not good enough from the Mercedes team.

[Knock-on]

I'm expecting a lightening start from Lewis and expect him to be dukeing it out with Fred into the first.

[kfzmeister]

If this is not a perfect scenario for Alonso and his Championship? :D
How the hell did his closest rivals manage to stay behind him while Jensen, with a near 100 point deficit, is leading? Even Kimi, who's the furthest away from the top chasing, got ahead. What a dream line-up!
I know the race is tomorrow, but looks like the F1 Gods are already shining down on Alonso. Again.

[kfzmeister]

I'm expecting a lightening start from Lewis and expect him to be dukeing it out with Fred into the first.

Eau Rouge and it's all over for Ali.

[rjbetty]

Well it didn't take long for the calls for Schumacher's retirement to start ringing out. :dozey:

He qualified 13th, but where was Rosberg? He was in 18th being outperformed again.

That car is now back to the level of last year, but because other teams have improved, the results are worse than last year!

It's the commitment of the Mercedes board that is the biggest disappointment for me, what with pulling out and reducing their entry. Their hearts were never much in it from the start sadly... :(

[Malbec]

It's the commitment of the Mercedes board that is the biggest disappointment for me, what with pulling out and reducing their entry. Their hearts were never much in it from the start sadly... :(

Why, did they announce something this weekend?

It will be an interesting race tomorrow, I think Jenson, Kamui and Pastor at the very least went for a low downforce option while those that didn't do so well today went for a higher downforce setup. Theoretically of course that means that the high downforce guys should have better tyre wear tomorrow but even so those low downforce cars are going to be a bugger to catch on the many long straights with/without DRS.

Can Kamui and Kimi produce proper race pace tomorrow and challenge Jenson? I think the race is Jensons to lose at the moment.

[zako85]

This promises to be another good weekend for Alonso's championship title hopes. All of his prime challengers will start behind him, except for Raikkonen. Even if he, unlikely, loses a spot or two to them, the points gap is just too big for this to matter.

[rjbetty]

This promises to be another good weekend for Alonso's championship title hopes. All of his prime challengers will start behind him, except for Raikkonen. Even if he, unlikely, loses a spot or two to them, the points gap is just too big for this to matter.

Yes, but Maldonado is starting alongside him. :D

[rjbetty]

Three place grid penalty fo Igornado (blocking Hulkenberg)That puts Kimi and Fred on the clean side of the grid!

Perez will be so relieved.

[airshifter]

Very interesting qually. It's hard to think that even if the new wing is somehow that good that Jenson could still produce such a big gap. It will be very interesting to watch how the race pace is.... if it remains that good Jenson will drive off into the distance and all the fights for position will be behind him. It almost seems too good to be true, but stranger things have happened.

The first few laps should be fun to watch, as there are some very tight times at the front of the pack, and some aggressive drivers with those times. :)

[kfzmeister]

It will be very interesting to watch how the race pace is.... if it remains that good Jenson will drive off into the distance and all the fights for position will be behind him. It almost seems too good to be true, but stranger things have happened.

It will be interesting to see, since quali pace has not always turned into similar race pace on Sunday. Button has been unusually hard on his tires this season. The Lotus has been very good on Sundays with regards to tires and Alonso has always had better race pace than quali. Curious to see how Kobes manages the race. I can't see him doing any better than 5th, but like you said, stranger things have happened. :)

[Koz]

It will be interesting to see, since quali pace has not always turned into similar race pace on Sunday. Button has been unusually hard on his tires this season.... Curious to see how Kobes manages the race. I can't see him doing any better than 5th, but like you said, stranger things have happened. :)

I have a feeling that Button, Koba and Idiot will chew through their tyres very quickly. I doubt any of them will have good race pace.

Kimi and Alonso will shine.

[Robinho]

The one consistency this season has been whoever is running at the front in clear air has had good tyres. Those who have burnt up tyres have generally wen in traffic trying to get past slower cars.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

[F1boat]

For me the Saubers will be very interesting today, they are usually gentle to their tires and are nice fast little cars. Maybe that elusive first win will finally come. :)

[donKey jote]

but I assume this can be changed for the race?

yes, he could always copy Button's setup :p

[Robinho]

He won't copy his setup as they are quite different in certain respects, but he may revert to the different wing, at least I hope. Well done to Button for clinching his first pole position in a McLaren and the first in 2 and half years since Monaco 2009!! Can't believe it has been that long.

Can they change the wing in parc ferme? Generally if you opt for a wet setup in dry qually or vice versa you don't get to change it if the weather isn't as planned. Hamilton an d others on high downforce are stuck with it for the race whether its the right decision or not

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

[Zico]

I would have thought wing changes are not be allowed until during the race? It sounds like they are going to run with it...


"Lewis Hamilton blamed a decision to switch rear wings for his eighth place in Belgian Grand Prix qualifying.
Hamilton used a different wing that made his car slower on the straight than McLaren team-mate Jenson Button, who took pole position.
"Jenson has the new rear wing on, I have the old," tweeted Hamilton. "We voted to change, didn't work out. I lose 0.4 seconds just on the straight."

Hamilton arrived at Spa on the back of his second win of the season at the Hungarian Grand Prix at the end of July.


However, he struggled to match his team-mate's pace in final practice and, following a session debrief with his engineers tweeted: "Car is not fast enough at the moment but have made some big changes."
One of those changes would see Hamilton move to a high-downforce set-up, while team-mate Button was more comfortable with the new low downforce version.
The differences would mean Button would have more speed on the long straights in sectors one and three, and Hamilton more pace in the tighter middle sector but in theory their total lap times should have been similar.
Hamilton told BBC Sport: "It has not been a great qualifying session for me. We opted to use an old wing. After P3, the new one wasn't feeling so great.
"We went to the old wing and it was an awful lot slower. I'll just have to do the best I can. I will try and do as best I can to back Jenson up tomorrow."
Team boss Martin Whitmarsh said he thought the decision to put Hamilton on a higher downforce set-up was a "mistake".
But technical director Paddy Lowe said: "We had a special rear wing for Spa and Jenson stayed with that configuration.

Lewis was quite a bit slower than Jenson this morning and we elected to go for the high downforce set-up.
"It's a perfectly valid choice around here. It's not as though it's some sort of outlandish gamble. It's a choice we had seriously considered coming here.
"It's a long race. One of his principal competitors here, Kimi [Raikkonen], has gone the same way, and we'll see where it gets us.
"We will be looking at the differences and why we couldn't get the same performance, which ought to have been there on paper. The lap time is not explained by the differences in set-up.
"Perhaps we over-reacted, but it's a long race. Tomorrow is race day when you score the points and both will want to win and they're both capable of winning.
"Last year, Jenson came from 13th to third."

[Ranger]

Would be stoked to see Kobayashi win. Would also be happy for Raikkonen or Perez for that matter.

[F1boat]

I don't think that the wing can be changed but I think that Lewis admitted that he chose the old wing himself - although he was quick to imply that the team is to blame, as they lead him to believe that the old wing will be OK.

[Zico]

Lets not forget that this 0.4 sec advantage may be negated somewhat with a high fuel load and/or med/hard tyres.

[AndyL]

You can hardly blame Lewis for going back to the standard wing, after failing to get the skinny wing working in the limited dry running. After all Jenson made the same choice in Monza last year and it paid off handsomely.

[F1boat]

Lewis admitted he voted for the wing choice and no he did not imply the team was to blame. He was frustrated with himself and has accepted he has no chance in the race today. Could you quote his comments regarding the team please?

Belgian Grand Prix: Lewis Hamilton admits he chose wrong McLaren rear wing after poor qualifying - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102137)

[donKey jote]

Might not bother watching this one after all,
fickle :p

[F1boat]

""I was told the difference in wings was not so great, so it is definitely a surprise. I was told that in qualifying my wing would be quicker but for some reason it wasn't."
This doesn't sound very loyal to McLaren in my opinion. No disrespect to Lewis, he is IMO the third best F1 driver today and a great, but I think that outside McLaren it will be very difficult for him to succeed. Actually McLaren and Paddy Low believe that he has a chance in the race, so this may be forgotten very quickly, but I bet that few people will credit the team for their great development since Silverstone.

[Garry Walker]

. No disrespect to Lewis, he is IMO the third best F1 driver today and a great,

Who are better?



Nice job by Lewis, tweeting Telemetry Data to prove where he was losing time to Button without permission from the team. How dumb can one be?

[F1boat]

Garry Walker, I personally believe that Fernando Alonso and Sebastian Vettel are better drivers :) This is, of course, just my opinion.

[Garry Walker]

Garry Walker, I personally believe that Fernando Alonso and Sebastian Vettel are better drivers :) .
LOL.

Yeah, I know. Free speech and all.

[wedge]

How dumb can one be?

DAM

Dumb As a Motherfu.....

I'm surprised Lewis didn't tweet that McLaren ruined his life

[F1boat]

while Martin defends him, as usual.
Whitmarsh: A team decision | Planet F1 | Formula One | News, Standings, Results, Features, Video (http://planetf1.com/driver/18227/8044022/Whitmarsh-A-team-decision)

However, now the race is on. Have a nice afternoon, folks :)

[Garry Walker]

Its hardly going to give anything away to other teams really. The cars are in parc ferme and the setups are different. By next year the cars will be different again and the telemetry only showed timings for sectors. The fuel loads will decrease and this will be little help. Throttle mapping was shown as well but a driver isn't going to learn anything from it I wouldn't have thought. Can't see the fuss over this personally.

Do you think it was professional behaviour from him?

[wedge]

Its hardly going to give anything away to other teams really. The cars are in parc ferme and the setups are different. By next year the cars will be different again and the telemetry only showed timings for sectors. The fuel loads will decrease and this will be little help. Throttle mapping was shown as well but a driver isn't going to learn anything from it I wouldn't have thought. Can't see the fuss over this personally.

Another Twitter tangle for Hamilton | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/09/02/uk-motor-racing-prix-hamilton-twitter-idUKBRE88102O20120902)


"Could you also tweet the race strategy and set up sheet. Thanks mate," joked former McLaren driver Alex Wurz, now working with rivals Williams as a driver coach, in a reply to Hamilton on the social network site.

[donKey jote]

here we gogoogogoooooo :D

[donKey jote]

jaysus
sod this :(

[F1boat]

LOL

[donKey jote]

DONKEYs!!!!

[truefan72]

WTF!!!!!!

[donKey jote]

Laughing my head off here, weekend just gets better :p

right... don't think I'll be watching this race :p

[donKey jote]

Hamilton donkey of the race :p

[donKey jote]

ok, with a little help from Grosjean :p

[truefan72]

stupid grosjean
stupid, stupid, boy!

WTF!

[truefan72]

ok, with a little help from Grosjean :p

a little help?

how about all Grosjean's fault?

[N4D13]

Impressive... totally dumb moves from Maldonado and Grosjean, and now Alonso and Hamilton are out of the race. By the way, is Vettel out as well? If that's the case, I might just turn the TV off already... :P

[AndyL]

Martin Brundle's "hard hat" gag on the grid walk turned out to be quite prescient!

[pino]

What a big risk for Alonso :s

[BleAivano]

Impressive... totally dumb moves from Maldonado and Grosjean, and now Alonso and Hamilton are out of the race. By the way, is Vettel out as well? If that's the case, I might just turn the TV off already... :P

no he is still in.

[gm99]

Grosjean is such an idiot.

What a bloody shame for Sauber - Perez out, Kobayashi at the back of the field.

[wedge]

Damn FOM, what took long?!

It looked like Hamilton's fault/dumb banzai move.

Just when you thought Grosjean turned things round.

[Ranger]

a little help?

how about all Grosjean's fault?

Very clumsy, he just veered across Hamilton.

Also, biggest jump start ever??

[donKey jote]

Alonso bloody lucky not to be injured :eek:

[AndyL]

A great opportunity for Kimi and Force India now. And a great opportunity for Kimi and Jenson to close up in the WDC.

[truefan72]

it is a shame they don't red flag races and allow drivers to go to the spare anymore
if there was ever a case for it, it would be this iincident

grosjean just took out 2 top drivers and both saubers which effectively dulls this race completely.

this guy is a joke, should get a penalty for the next race
How GP2 and GP3 can have relatively clean starts, but F! has an idiot clearly false starting and another guy who shows wreckless abandon in his driving is beyond me

I can't believe I've been up since 6am to watch this nonsense

[wedge]

Impressive... totally dumb moves from Maldonado and Grosjean

What did Maldonado do wrong, apart from possible jump start?

[ArrowsFA1]

Damn. Day ruined for Sauber who looked well placed today. Grosjean simply didn't seem aware Hamilton was on his inside.

Good day for JB to make up ground, and a great chance for Force India to score big points.

[donKey jote]

3 Germans in top five :( :p

[rjbetty]

Also, Kovalainen is in 10th place - maybe there is a chance of a point! :p

[donKey jote]

go Hulk :D

[Tazio]

a little help?

how about all Grosjean's fault? Totally agree!

[pino]

Not interested on this anymore :(

[F1boat]

Praise to God that Alonso is all right :(

[N4D13]

Alonso bloody lucky not to be injured :eek:
With that kind of stuff, there's not "injured". If anyone was to be hit on the head by a flying car, I would have expected him to be dead on the spot.

[gm99]

Spa is a good place for Force India.

Maldonado found a way to escape his jump start penalty :P

[donKey jote]

go Schu :D

[truefan72]

wow vettel cutting the track at eau rouge to gain an advantage
maldonado being maldonado,

[BleAivano]

Praise to God that Alonso is all right :(

Looks alright.

[donKey jote]

Not interested on this anymore :(

fickle... :p

:(

[wedge]

Grosjean you mean? :)

Should have preceded with "At first"

[N4D13]

What did Maldonado do wrong, apart from possible jump start?
Not just possible - I'd say it was totally obvious. But, of course, it doesn't get close to Grosjean's move.

[MrJan]

Maldonado is like F1's answer to Randy De Puniet, you're always counting the laps to when he does something stupid/crashes out/does something stupid AND crashes out.

[ArrowsFA1]

Once again Maldonado has cost Williams the opportunity of good points, while Senna steers clear of trouble and is up to eighth.

[wedge]

Wouldn't jump starts be instantaneously logged?

[donKey jote]

Massa lets Vettel past :(

[wedge]

Maldonado is like F1's answer to Randy De Puniet, you're always counting the laps to when he does something stupid/crashes out/does something stupid AND crashes out.

Andrea de Crasheris

[donKey jote]

Webber's Bull can't pass Senna :crazy:

[Robinho]

1st instinct was it was Hamiltons fault,replays proved it was all grosjean. Scary for Alonso, glad everyone was ok, such a pity for both saubers to get caught up in that.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

[F1boat]

I hope that Mike will score good.

[donKey jote]

Hold'em up Bruno :D

[truefan72]

agreed

[donKey jote]

Webber lapdog :p

[gm99]

Ruthless Vettel :D

[wedge]

What did Hamilton do at the start other than steer slightly right? Having watched it a few times now I can't see a banzai move of any sort from Lewis before Grosjean hit him.

Brain fade

What I should've typed first:

At first it looked like Lewis Hamilton's fault....

[ArrowsFA1]

Looking good for Schumi...

[donKey jote]

Schu! :crazy: :up:

[gm99]

Schuey and Spa - the love affair continues...

[Tazio]

Go Mike :p :

[donKey jote]

balls... vettel shafts bruno under braking :up: :(

[rjbetty]

Vettel takes Webber - Dr Marko might be hyperventilating and looking like this smiley. :crazy:

Maybe they turned Vettel's engine up again...

As for Alonso, I've long been scared of driver's heads being exposed. I would be so scared in that situation cos I'm tall and if that was me I wouldn't be able to duck down much. I think something has to change as I fear the next fatal incident in F1 would involve a driver's head having been exposed the way it is.

[MrJan]

Grosjean - "I haven't seen it" Really?! He expects us to believe that he's been back in the garage for 20 minutes and hasn't once said "what actually happened then?" and watched the footage?

[donKey jote]

caterham donkey :p

[Garry Walker]

Red Bull is the fastest car out there today.

[rjbetty]

Awww Kovalainen hits HRT - might have had a hope of points until then.

Vergne probably obliged to let Vettel through, or Dr Marko will flip out...

[AndyL]

I can't help thinking McLaren are taking an unnecessary gamble on a 1-stopper. With a comfortable lead and pace in hand, surely all they needed to do was cover off Raikonnen.

Although Vettel has really put himself into contention, if he's also on a 1-stopper then maybe that's the real race.

[gm99]

Vettel catching Schuey fast - time for the old man to pit, maybe?

[wedge]

Grosjean - "I haven't seen it" Really?! He expects us to believe that he's been back in the garage for 20 minutes and hasn't once said "what actually happened then?" and watched the footage?

To give a bit of benefit of doubt some interviews aren't 'live'.

But I'm guessing its the Arsene Wenger response to protect himself. Let's face it, most people aren't going to hold their hands up and ask for a 10 place grid penalty.

[donKey jote]

What a different race it would have been with the Saubers, Alonso and Hamilton still in the mix.

:bigcry: :laugh:

[donKey jote]

Schu :crazy:

[Garry Walker]

Even when its bouncing off the limiter on the long straights? Its faster in the slower corners and most stable under braking IMO, and Button is punching in some consistent laps at the front.

What a different race it would have been with the Saubers, Alonso and Hamilton still in the mix.

Look at the times they are doing. There is no question, Red Bull is the fastest car out there.

[F1boat]

What? Look at Jenson, McLaren are in space.

[Garry Walker]

Button seems pretty dominant to me and has a cushion at the front to push less at this stage.

Button is only leading because bieber was a joke in qualy yesterday and Webber had a penalty. That is why he has built such a lead, but on pace the RB cars are faster. They were just stuck in traffic for a long time.

[donKey jote]

hold'im up Massa :p

[tfp]

Bunson fastest lap!! :bounce:

Im surprised its a one stop strategy for some of the teams!

[F1boat]

JB fastest lap, McLaren dominate this :)

[donKey jote]

hold'im up Massa :p

oh well :dozey: :p

[ShiftingGears]

Vettel catching Schuey fast - time for the old man to pit, maybe?

Schumacher's defensive efforts are still second to none, that's for sure.

[Garry Walker]

JB fastest lap, McLaren dominate this :)

Oops, Bieber fastest lap, RB fastest car.

[Garry Walker]

I'll hold my hands up, I don't know enough about the timings. I'm not watching live timings, but glad the Bulls are not at the front. Vettel's having a great race though, really showing his talent and I'm not afraid to admit that when I'm a fan of a rival driver.

Webber and Bieber are doing the fastest laps.

[Garry Walker]

Kimi is losing almost a second in the first sector every lap.

[wedge]

Degradation is low again.

Drivers are able to push during a stint.

[donKey jote]

Kers issues for Kimi as usual

[Tazio]

Button is checking out.

[donKey jote]

Degradation is low again.

stoopid pirelli :p

[donKey jote]

massa pit donkeys :(

[longisland]

WTF is with Grosjean. It pains me to say the Button man is the quickest driver in F1. So much for the conspiracy on Pastors demotion. Both Fred and Lewis are out so it's still against Lewis but so much for Fred's lady luck

[Malbec]

Jenson should have this one in the bag.

Can't believe Kamui's car is still running having watched his car take a proper thump from both Lewis and Alonso, the Sauber must be built like a tank.

Shame we've been denied an interesting race at the front by Grosjean, he didn't even have the excuse of having to veer right to avoid a car on his left. Poor.

[Garry Walker]

Degradation is low again.

Drivers are able to push during a stint.
Yeah, how awful. Being able to push during a stint.


Is Button pushing hard or relaxed in his super large piece of free air? If he's making a one or two stopper its likely he is nursing his tyre's to a degree. Vettel on the other hand is needing to make up places and is pushing like mad. Early on in the race both Webber and Vettel were unable to pass Senna on full DRS when their cars bounced off the limiter.
Well, he might bounce off the limiter, but both RB cars have been the fastest in the 1st sector all the time. bieber is almost a second faster than Kimi there.

RB is the fastest car out there today, had they not failed so much yesterday they would be winning this.

[truefan72]

if team button were smart, they would pit him now and get a fresh pair of tyres to get vettel at the end of the race

[gm99]

Massa fastest lap = no doubt the Ferrari is actually the fastest car out there :p

[Garry Walker]

if team button were smart, they would pit him now and get a fresh pair of tyres to get vettel at the end of the race

Why would they need to pit?

[Garry Walker]

You idiots complaining about Red Bull bouncing off the limiter, KR has much bigger problems with that, he is just a sitting target on straights.

[donKey jote]

even Massa is catching them now :laugh:
2.5 sec per lap :crazy:

[donKey jote]

Kimi storms past Opa at Eau Rouge :up:

[steveaki13]

Schumi with issues and then recovering with DRS

[truefan72]

1 stopper might not work today
MSC trypical mercedes car problems now

[steveaki13]

Schumi might pit that would end his challenge surely

[Robinho]

if team button were smart, they would pit him now and get a fresh pair of tyres to get vettel at the end of the race

Team button are smart, they did 21 laps in clean air on the soft tyres on full fuel, 23 laps on hard tyres on much less fuel on an improving track will be no problem. Vettel is the one who might run into tyre issues as he is having to push much harder and has not been in clean air all stint

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

[truefan72]

nice pass massa, for once rooting for this guy

[gm99]

Stupid Mercedes strategy...

[steveaki13]

Felipe :s mokin:

[donKey jote]

massa nabs webbo in clearly the fastest car :p

[Robinho]

Kimi is the 1 vettel should be worried about, fresh tyres and quicker

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

[F1boat]

Great pass for Massa, but Mercedes are beyond awful :(

[longisland]

What even happens, the man who knows the track like his living room and a guy with a famous uncle are my men of the race

[gm99]

Red Bull should pit Vettel now - the worst that could happen would be to lose P2 to Räikkönen. If the tires degrade quickly, he might end up further down the field.

[truefan72]

hulkenberg is going to catch kimi

[rjbetty]

*Tosses Ricciardo and Vergne doggy biscuits*

I'm watching the BBC Live Stream. :)

Now, I don't want to hear any nonsense about Schumacher retiring today. :p
Though he is 7th, he is not out of the points being roughed up by Toro Rosso juniors. :p

[steveaki13]

Good racing from Pic and Glock. Not often seen but driving nicely

[donKey jote]

Red Bull should pit Vettel now - the worst that could happen would be to lose P2 to Räikkönen. If the tires degrade quickly, he might end up further down the field.
I wish :p

[tfp]

Cmon kimi try and catch vettel.....

[Garry Walker]

Red Bull should pit Vettel now - the worst that could happen would be to lose P2 to Räikkönen. If the tires degrade quickly, he might end up further down the field.

What on earth are you guys talking about? Bieber will have no problems with tyres, he has ZERO reasons why to pit.

[wedge]

Vettel's flying!

[Garry Walker]

Vettel's flying!

But our local "experts" here think he should pit, because he will have massive tyre problems!

[Malbec]

Great pass for Massa, but Mercedes are beyond awful :(

Mercedes are really quick for about 4-5 laps after each pitstop then drop about 2-3 s a lap after. Bizarre.

[wedge]

And our expert reckons RBR is the quicker car despite struggling to break the 14s interval.

[donKey jote]

well done Butt :up:

well done Massa :erm:

[Garry Walker]

And our expert reckons RBR is the quicker car despite struggling to break the 14s interval.

What? Bieber will not catch Button, they are not 1 second per lap quicker, they have both been nursing their tyres throughout the stint and not pushing flat-out.

[donKey jote]

shame Alonso and Hamilton weren't in the mix :mad:

[F1boat]

Well done for Jenson and McLaren.
Good job for Seb and Kimi as well. Great race and now the championship is even more interesting.

[Garry Walker]

Just give up Garry you're wrong :p :)

No, I am not wrong.

[truefan72]

I'm so dissapointed
I'm going back to sleep

[donKey jote]

great coverage you have in the UK... gotta love the top three chatting and not being spoken over by some stoopid commentator :up:

[wedge]

What? Bieber will not catch Button, they are not 1 second per lap quicker, they have both been nursing their tyres throughout the stint and not pushing flat-out.

The difference, when you average it out, was probably about a few tenths.

Bieber did low 1m54s when he felt like it.

Button did 1m54s in response to manage the gap.

[tfp]

Get in bunson! Shame webber couldnt have been closer to the front, all in all though, what a fantastic race!!

[The Black Knight]

It's be nice if on the podium interviews they had someone who could speak English properly asking the questions. At least have the question thought out before hand.

[wedge]

Can Jacky Ickx get to the point and speak a bit quicker?

[kfzmeister]

Good showing by Massa in the end, although he could have defended more aggressively against the Bulls at first.
His showing makes me wonder where Alonso could have ended up. Certainly podium, perhaps 2nd? Also have to wonder how Hamilton might have fit into that picture. Boy, did Vettel have a serious run today. Now second to Alonso with only 24 points behind. :( Hurry up and bring on Monza. This is one to forget for me.
BTW, pass of the day: Kimi on Schuey into Eau Rouge. Balls.......

[The Black Knight]

I haven't read through all the thread because there's too much but what on earth was Hamilton thinking posting sensitive team telemetry on twitter for?

BBC Sport - Lewis Hamilton's tweet angers McLaren team (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19456707)

My word. I'm a fan of his but this is really idiotic.

[Robinho]

Jeeesus jacky Icyx is boring, great driver, ****e interviewer

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

[MrJan]

Can Jacky Ickx get to the point and speak a bit quicker?

I reckon he was being fed the lines in an earpiece, meaning that the pauses were while he was listening to the next few words.

[MrJan]

I haven't read through all the thread because there's too much but what on earth was Hamilton thinking posting sensitive team telemetry on twitter for?

BBC Sport - Lewis Hamilton's tweet angers McLaren team (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19456707)

My word. I'm a fan of his but this is really idiotic.

It was quite interesting though! Silly thing to have done, but I still feel that people have gone a bit OTT about it...although I did enjoy Christian Horner on the grid saying that they'd been studying it.

[ShiftingGears]

I haven't read through all the thread because there's too much but what on earth was Hamilton thinking posting sensitive team telemetry on twitter for?

BBC Sport - Lewis Hamilton's tweet angers McLaren team (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19456707)

My word. I'm a fan of his but this is really idiotic.

Unbelievable. I wonder what he was thinking. If he was thinking.

[rjbetty]

I thought it was really good to hear from Jacky Ickx! :)

No points for Caterham and co!

[AndyL]

Well quite a few of us doubted the wisdom of the 1-stop strategy but we were all proved wrong!

[The Black Knight]

McLaren are fine that its been resolved. Having seen it I wouldn't say it was giving away vital secrets or anything like that. Storm in a teacup really.

I know there's nothing major on it but it's a stupid thing to have done. Quite an interesting way to piss your team off.

[donKey jote]

Niki Lauda reckons Grosjean should be gesperrt :p

[wedge]

I reckon he was being fed the lines in an earpiece, meaning that the pauses were while he was listening to the next few words.

It's just the way he speaks - eloquent and concise but the podium interviews was like a caricature.

[rjbetty]

Niki Lauda reckons Grosjean should be gesperrt :p

Maybe Grosjean might reconsider that wee chat with Sir Jackie.

[tfp]

The shoe is always smiling despite having a race that was promising but diddnt deliver. Heres hoping he doesnt retire at the end of the year!

[tfp]

Quite a bit OTT. Thank goodness the start crash wasn't his fault! Still the twitter thing gives the detractors at least something to talk about for the next week.

What was the twitter message that hamilton put up? I diddnt see because i dont have twitter!

[MrJan]

What was the twitter message that hamilton put up? I diddnt see because i dont have twitter!

He posted a picture of telemetry with his lap overlaid on Jenson's, basically showing everyone in the world where each of them were strong. Given the secrecy that's around F1 it was probably something that other teams were very interested in seeing.

[MrJan]

As you see tfp two totally different views on the matter lol.

Yeah, one that's right and one that's wrong....better luck next time :D :p :

[Robinho]

The Twitter thing also showed ride heights, gear ratios and things like that. Not critical but all very private

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[Malbec]

The Twitter thing also showed ride heights, gear ratios and things like that. Not critical but all very private


Still a needless silly thing to have done though no harm done.

Gutted for Sauber today, think it was their best non-BMW quali effort and all destroyed thanks to someone else's error. Same for Alonso and Lewis, the race would have been a lot more interesting without those 4 cars taken out.

Bit disappointed for Lotus too, if Grosjean didn't have so many first lap incidents I'm sure they'd be higher up in the points standings this season.

[wedge]

The difference, when you average it out, was probably about a few tenths.

Bieber did low 1m54s when he felt like it.

Button did 1m54s in response to manage the gap.

Saying that, Bieber in clean air was half a second quicker in the first stint...

[Rollo]

If there had been some sort of covers over the rear wheels ala this year's IndyCar, Grosjean's rear wheel might not have clipped Hamilton's front wheel; thus throwing his car into the air.

Open wheeled cars are an inherent design fault and we keep on seeing this again and again.


Alonso could have died today. Romain has done such crap in several races this year. He deserves the ban.

Oh yes, blame Grosjean because that really doesn't address the issue. Just what would have happened if Alonso had died? Would this discussion be different?

[andyone]

Romain deservers even two bans... stupid driving

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[tfp]

Ah see you need to join the 21st century, then you would know :p

He put up a photo of a telemetry print out showing the throttle maps of him and Button compared. Shouldn't have done it, but it didn't give anything valuable away and McLaren are happy its been sorted.

:D It was a bit silly on Hamiltons part though!


He posted a picture of telemetry with his lap overlaid on Jenson's, basically showing everyone in the world where each of them were strong. Given the secrecy that's around F1 it was probably something that other teams were very interested in seeing.

I'm sure the other teams will have been interested!

I never found out what was with his "bad language" he used in his post though.

Also, what hapenned to Kob at the green light? He got a rubbish start and had a cloud of smoke over his car? Just before I thought when Custard had the best race start of his career, silly me :p

[Robinho]

Still a needless silly thing to have done though no harm done.

That doesn't address the issue of (potential) breach of contract for disclosing private team information to competitors. I'd wager that all F1 driver contracts contained some sort of non-disclosure clauses re. data and IP. The consequences in this case may be minor but it was an epically stupid move.


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[Robinho]

:D It was a bit silly on Hamiltons part though!



I'm sure the other teams will have been interested!

I never found out what was with his "bad language" he used in his post though.


He posted something finishing in WTF! Not exactly a hanging offence, but enough for people to jump on it.


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[kfzmeister]

He posted something finishing in WTF! Not exactly a hanging offence, but enough for people to jump on it.


Looks like he caused enough of a stir within the team. :D Hamilton in trouble on and off track - Motor Racing - Sport - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/motor-racing/hamilton-in-trouble-on-and-off-track-8101446.html)

[Tazio]

Hamilton has been around long enough to know better than trying to protect his reputation with McLaren data through social media. It's not that it is a big deal; I just don't know why "The Champ" "The Boss" feels like he has to back his words up in this manner. I thought he was bigger, less insecure and just better than that. After Monza no one is even going to care one way or another about this anyway, with the possible exception of the McLaren brass, and they don't need to get it from a tweet.

[TheFamousEccles]

It was an unfortunate thing that Hamilton got taken out in the Grosjean mellee, but this weekends little dummy spit via the twit wire is further indication (if any were needed) that he is a spoiled little gob****e. I am sure there may be some commercial-in-confidence issues with posting McL info, regardless of how innoccuous it was. No style, all whinge.

[The Black Knight]

It was an unfortunate thing that Hamilton got taken out in the Grosjean mellee, but this weekends little dummy spit via the twit wire is further indication (if any were needed) that he is a spoiled little gob****e. I am sure there may be some commercial-in-confidence issues with posting McL info, regardless of how innoccuous it was. No style, all whinge.

As the guys said it has been blown out of proportion but he should have had more sense. He didn't exactly cover himself in glory but one of the reasons I admire Hamilton is his willingness to communicate and interact with the fans both over twitter and at races. You can't say that about a lot of people. Even at the British GP during wet practice he was the first driver out to the fans. He might say some questionable things at times but when you dust all that away he's just passionate. I've met him on a number of occasions and he seems like a genuinely nice guy so try not to judge the book by its cover because, with racing drivers, all you ever see on TV and is the cover, it's just the some covers appeal to you more than others :)

[wedge]

The Twitter thing also showed ride heights, gear ratios and things like that. Not critical but all very private

Harmless to the untrained eye.

Given that rake has been a hot topic in recent years I would have thought ride height traces would have been interesting to look at.

[D28]

I have wondered often why on a 7 km circuit, the start is just before the slowest hairpin. The old circuit did have the start after La Source. Anyone know why this was changed. I assume there were logistical reasons, but the older location seems to make more sense. It is a shame to see the field decimated at the first corner.

[wedge]

I have wondered often why on a 7 km circuit, the start is just before the slowest hairpin. The old circuit did have the start after La Source. Anyone know why this was changed. I assume there were logistical reasons, but the older location seems to make more sense. It is a shame to see the field decimated at the first corner.

Because the F1 pits are at the top.

Regardless, Eau Rouge is also a bottleneck so a pile up of some sort would be inevitable

[kfzmeister]

Harmless to the untrained eye.


You forget that ALL Formula one engineers from ALL teams have clearly looked at this, especially since McLaren has shown some promising form lately. Tell me you're not that naive. Quite frankly, this is an embarrassment for Mclaren. This has not been blown out of proportion. It shows how emotionally immature he still is. Even ex F1 driver's are joking openly on twitter about it. Lol
Could you also tweet the race strategy and set up sheet. Thanks mate

[Bagwan]

It only takes one loss in qualifying to destabilize him enough to spurt technical info into the hands of his rivals ?
Handlers will be tweaking the phone so all tweets run through McLaren head office .

Sadly , it was obvious to pretty much anybody watching , that Button had the magic set-up , and Lewis's car was nowhere near as fast .
And , that proved to be the case the next day as well .

So , because nobody actually believed Button was a god and Lewis was a dog , it was a seriously bad "own goal" for Lewis on this one .
Would he have been so fussed about the issue if it was his team-mate that had used the old wing and he the new ?

[Knock-on]

What a load of old fanny :( This data is meaningless on its own. It's like trying to break a code when you're only given 1 letter to look at. You might just understand more if you knew what font they used.

Can someone tell me how much rear and front wing each driver was using, we're they using identical ratios, how many laps and what temp the tyres were, enginee map any torque settings, age of engines etc.

Does anyone on here think before they post? This means ziltch on its own. Christ on a bike, not even McLaren with all their super computers and expertise knew which wing would work best and you didn't need a printout in the end to figure it out.

[jarrambide]

What a load of old fanny :( This data is meaningless on its own. It's like trying to break a code when you're only given 1 letter to look at. You might just understand more if you knew what font they used.

Can someone tell me how much rear and front wing each driver was using, we're they using identical ratios, how many laps and what temp the tyres were, enginee map any torque settings, age of engines etc.

Does anyone on here think before they post? This means ziltch on its own. Christ on a bike, not even McLaren with all their super computers and expertise knew which wing would work best and you didn't need a printout in the end to figure it out.

It doesn't matter if he gave out enough information to hurt his team or not, it is the principle involved, it is the fact that many inside his own team might feel betrayed by having your driver sharing confidetial information.

When you do wrong things, it doesn't matter the final outcome, your actions are wrong no matter what.

[kfzmeister]

What a load of old fanny :( This data is meaningless on its own. It's like trying to break a code when you're only given 1 letter to look at. You might just understand more if you knew what font they used.

Can someone tell me how much rear and front wing each driver was using, we're they using identical ratios, how many laps and what temp the tyres were, enginee map any torque settings, age of engines etc.

Does anyone on here think before they post? This means ziltch on its own. Christ on a bike, not even McLaren with all their super computers and expertise knew which wing would work best and you didn't need a printout in the end to figure it out.

Think before you post? Perhaps you should heed your own advice. Lol


...An engineer from a rival team said that they could effectively work out how McLaren were running their car from the information..........It showed their speed traces around the lap and also contained information teams guard closely, such as ride heights and braking and acceleration rates............Engineers from rival teams expressed amusement and disbelief at his decision to reveal valuable information..............He (Hamilton)didn't really appreciate the nature of that information and that engineers don't like to see that because we spend our lives trying to keep things like that secret.

Let's face it. This is stuff that you just do not post on Twitter. Stop defending his mindless decision to post this photo. It sounds ridiculous!

[Malbec]

It doesn't matter if he gave out enough information to hurt his team or not, it is the principle involved, it is the fact that many inside his own team might feel betrayed by having your driver sharing confidetial information.

When you do wrong things, it doesn't matter the final outcome, your actions are wrong no matter what.

And why post sensitive information like this when he's mid-negotiation with his team? No harm may have been done but at the least its a very bizarre act.

I admire Lewis on track but off it he seems to have been stuck in his teens. Why did he post it? Because he was upset that Jenson qualified so far ahead of him?

[MrJan]

It was unnecessary as most fans knew the reasons why he qualified so far behind anyway. He's definitely at a different maturity level to most other drivers (away from the car)

That's something which really annoys me, because I really like seeing it when he's in good form a hussling the car, the way he handles a car is really something IMO. Button on the other hand is an absolute gent out of the car but I'm not such a fan of his driving. No doubt that it's beautiful and smooth, I'd just rather see someone wringing the neck of a car. I'm a fan of both drivers, but for completely different reasons.

[Mia 01]

Congrats Jenson, Seb and KIMI!!

Those tweets Lewis, well there´s always Mercedes which seems probably now when MS retires.

[Zico]

Lewis is a great driver but regarding the tweets what can I say? He really can be incredibly immature and stupid at times. Trying to negotiate a new contract and does that... not the brightest is he?

[AndyL]

I admire Lewis on track but off it he seems to have been stuck in his teens. Why did he post it? Because he was upset that Jenson qualified so far ahead of him?

It does demonstrate a certain level of insecurity doesn't it.

[Knock-on]

I'm not saying that he wasnt a bit stupid posting the info but people are carrying on as if he tweeted the cars blueprints. It really is a meaningless bit of info and of course the other teams will try and make out its more than it is. If you don't know the F1 has more head games than a busy brothel then you ain't been following the sport long.

As for anyone at McLaren feeling 'betrayed'??? Doubt it but good ammunition for a bit of ribbing :)

[The Black Knight]

It was unnecessary as most fans knew the reasons why he qualified so far behind anyway. He's definitely at a different maturity level to most other drivers (away from the car) apart from maybe Vettel, but he's fabulous to watch and has a driving maturity second to none IMO. This incident aside, I think he's doing brilliantly this season and its nice to have a more controlled Hamilton back on the grid. :)

Agreed. He hasn't really made a mistake all year. He has had 3 DNF's through no fault of his own and McLaren have cost him quite a lot of points due to bad strategy or silly pit stops. Him and Alonso are pretty much on the same level at the moment but Lewis has been really unlucky.

I think, from a driving perspective, this has been his strongest most consistent year to date.

[andyone]

Well he has offered some good wins so **** happens. Stop complaining about Hamilton. The team has played a big part letting him down on pits. So the few infos shouldn't be a big sin.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[wedge]

I'm not saying that he wasnt a bit stupid posting the info but people are carrying on as if he tweeted the cars blueprints. It really is a meaningless bit of info and of course the other teams will try and make out its more than it is. If you don't know the F1 has more head games than a busy brothel then you ain't been following the sport long.

As for anyone at McLaren feeling 'betrayed'??? Doubt it but good ammunition for a bit of ribbing :)

A lot of experts elsewhere on the interweb have said it wasn't particularly but here's an interesting analysis I found last night on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/brianjee/status/242378952109346816

https://twitter.com/brianjee/status/242380756683485184

Considering Interlagos is another medium downforce track perhaps rivals will be correlating their own data a looking at McLaren's Spa package with great interest.

[Bagwan]

For myself , it is not as much the speed of the driver , as it is his reaction to both winning and losing , that helps me decide whether I will support him or not .

Like many , I liked Vettel at first , but his finger is getting tiresome .
Felipe's pout makes me cringe .

I love seeing real reactions from the drivers , as it helps build an idea of thier character in my head .

As such , I love how Lewis found a way to circumvent his handlers here , as it showed how easy it can be to destabilize him .
And , more importantly at contract time , to control him .

And , here I am , at the very point of writing this , left wondering how hard it would be for McLaren , to leave this specific comparison , an explicit report about the how and why Lewis was slower , sitting on the table beside his cell phone .
Specific information that most are seeing as largely irrelevent was revealed .
Does this smell like a "set-up" over set-ups ?
It's quite brilliant if you think about it .
They convinced him to use the slow wing , which was pretty much at the speed of the pack behind Jensen , figuring he'd climb through the field anyway . But for a first corner incident , it might have worked better .

Now they have a cowering driver with which to negotiate . That could save million$ .

[Tazio]

Are the teams planning anymore updates before Interlagos though? It's a long way off and mclarens development will surely have advanced by then anyway if they are still in the title hunt.Several teams are planning big upgrades for Singapore.
BTW this thing has been way overhyped. At the very worst all that information will do for the competiton is serve as a reference to validate the sonic analysis that all teams already use to know what the competition is up to. It's still a dumb move by The Boss :crazy:

[F1boat]

I said what I think about the tweetgate on the other topic. I will only say that such moves cement the dislike I feel to this guy.

[kfzmeister]

They convinced him to use the slow wing , which was pretty much at the speed of the pack behind Jensen , figuring he'd climb through the field anyway . But for a first corner incident , it might have worked better .


Except, methinks that his set-up was similar to that of the Red Bulls, so who know's what he could have done with it. A drive at least as good as Vettels. We'll never know.

[Bagwan]

Except, methinks that his set-up was similar to that of the Red Bulls, so who know's what he could have done with it. A drive at least as good as Vettels. We'll never know.

Which is , roughly what I said .
He was at the speed of the pack behind him .

Button had to nurse his tires , while Lewis would have been expected to move through the pack , which would include Vettel .

Better than nine tenths is a big mistake on McLaren's part , if it really was a mistake .

[F1boat]

Your comments on the other thread were appalling and showed a complete lack of class. Harsh words against a sportsman and you offered a description I would give towards a murderer, not a racing driver. :down:
You are a bit too sensitive. ;)

[F1boat]

If you say so ;)

[wedge]

Several teams are planning big upgrades for Singapore.

Most other tracks left on the calender are aero dependent.


BTW this thing has been way overhyped. At the very worst all that information will do for the competiton is serve as a reference to validate the sonic analysis that all teams already use to know what the competition is up to.

The corner speeds are significant. Do teams have access to that sort of information? The only thing that comes close is sector times. Shows how effective McLaren wing on Button's car was.


Are the teams planning anymore updates before Interlagos though? It's a long way off and mclarens development will surely have advanced by then anyway if they are still in the title hunt.

Interlagos is at the tail end of the season. Certainly gives the teams something to think about for this year's development program as most teams a working on next year's cars. For instance McLaren developed their car up to the end of 2008 to help secure the WDC though it hamper their '09 car.

[steveaki13]

It seems as though after the incident at turn 1 in Belgium, we may be having discussions again about canopies and other protective equipment for the drivers.

Someone else must have said this, but the incident of Grosjjean flying over Alonso's car reminded me of Wurz launching over Coulthard in Oz 2007. Similar as his car flew in front of DCs head. Very scary.

[Garry Walker]

Your comments on the other thread were appalling and showed a complete lack of class. Harsh words against a sportsman and you offered a description I would give towards a murderer, not a racing driver. :down:

What did he say?