donKey of the race

[markabilly]

Hey, the race does not even get started and we already have a prime candidate for donKey of the race.....MS and team; stalled out, then speeding in the pits......and now likely to be the first car lapped by hamilton :eek:

[markabilly]

second candidate-whoever messed up and gave Alonso's tires to hamilton....

[Koz]

Pastor for being involved in an incident again... Thats pretty much every bloody race...

Time to get off the track,

[Ranger]

Pastor for being involved in an incident again... Thats pretty much every bloody race...

Time to get off the track,

I counted about 3 decent on-track passes and that was one of them.

That penalty was pretty harsh.

[Tazio]

Igornado
Kamui for getting his @ss beat by HK in the Cateram :laugh: :kiss:

[ShiftingGears]

The stewards - I am pretty sure Maldonado was penalised because of his reputation rather than the merits of the pass in question.

[Dave B]

Maldonado for yet another bone-headed collision. Honourable mention to Schumacher for getting confused at the start then speeding in the pitlane, and Lotus for snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory by not pitting Kimi sooner - he could have got ahead of Lewis and won that.

[Knock-on]

It wasn't harsh. Paul left racing room and Pastor yet again just punts another driver off. This is getting bloody silly.

MS had a brain fart and made a fool of himself but what with him falling asleep and crashing at Hockenheim, it's not surprising.

So, as with my Driver of the day, I have to give them the acolade equally.

[Garry Walker]

Placido Domingo as the interviewer. I mean really, who thinks of such crap? The man is a great great opera singer, but people should stick to doing things they are actually good at.

[rjbetty]

No huge donkeys today... Maybe Button for his 4th to 7th effort, 30sec off Hamilton.
Maldonado for taking Paul di Resta off track again. Oh yeah agree with Doc about Kobayashi, finishing behind a Caterham! I'm not sure he's the 5th best driver around...

[wedge]

The stewards - I am pretty sure Maldonado was penalised because of his reputation rather than the merits of the pass in question.

At this moment in time I agree but need to watch it again.

Nothing wrong with a bit of wheel banging nor with oversteer exiting a corner.

[truefan72]

maldonado

Button strategy - how you go from 3rd to 6th is beyond me
making moves that were not required. a two stopper would have gotten him no the podium

[kfzmeister]

No clear donkey for me. Pastor comes to mind for punting again....I would also say RoGro for not being able to deliver again when it counts. :rolleyes:

[steveaki13]

Donkies:

Schumi - Well don't need to go into it really. Fell asleep at the start, then speeding in the pitlane.

Mclaren Strategy boys - Don't know why people are blaming Jenson. He was 3rd and fending off Vettel and looking like a podium when the team told him they would have to go to Plan B which ruined his race. As it turned out Red Bull did the same. Hamilton was going to, but they saw what had happened to Jenson and they thought better of it.

Stewards - I have said on record before that I think the level of steward interference is too high. In Monaco yes Maldonado was right to be penalized for his move on Sergio. In Valencia I think it was the right call because he came from off track into Lewis.
At Silverstone I think he made the same mistake as here was a tad too hot and just lost the back end. Here I think the penalty was harsh because both cars continued with any damage or real inconvience and hard racing is disappearing. The difference at Silverstone was he completely ruined Sergio's race and thus a further punishment could be deemed nessacery. However today I thought it was a bit harsh.

[Garry Walker]

Actually, add bieber to the list for bitching over team radio "Do something guys."
What a crybaby.

[truefan72]

Stewards - I have said on record before that I think the level of steward interference is too high. In Monaco yes Maldonado was right to be penalized for his move on Sergio. In Valencia I think it was the right call because he came from off track into Lewis.
At Silverstone I think he made the same mistake as here was a tad too hot and just lost the back end. Here I think the penalty was harsh because both cars continued with any damage or real inconvience and hard racing is disappearing. The difference at Silverstone was he completely ruined Sergio's race and thus a further punishment could be deemed nessacery. However today I thought it was a bit harsh.

when you lookat the replays, it was clear that maldonado deliberately steered his car into hulkenberg to intentionally shove him off the track, even worse, in doing so he made contact. the onboards are very telling.
A similar argument could be made for kimi's move on Grosjean however, but the difference is that kimi didn't necessarily steer into grosjean and they were side by side and grosjea nhad the opportunity to concede

In Hulkenberg's case, he was on the racing line and ahead when Maldonado came charging in ( fair enough) but then knowing that he wasn't going to make the pass, decided to steer into nicoH.

[truefan72]

Actually, add bieber to the list for bitching over team radio "Do something guys."
What a crybaby.

LOL for once we agree

its is almost the opposite of Button/Mclaren
RBR and Rocky even tried to tell him that they are racing the cars behind as well
I'm not exactly sure what he expected the team to do, he more than his team could affect the outcome of that situation
so in pushing his team, they then decided to 3 stop the guy, which I doubt was not their intention.

[driveace]

As mentioned the Schu ,and Pastor.Thought Button was lack-lustre today as well !

[F1boat]

But Vettel did beat Button. Whining or not, he did a good job IMO, after the mistake on the start.

[djparky]

Schumi for pressing the wrong button at the start and once again Maldonado for once again driving into someone

[Mia 01]

Hamilton!!

[steveaki13]

when you lookat the replays, it was clear that maldonado deliberately steered his car into hulkenberg to intentionally shove him off the track, even worse, in doing so he made contact. the onboards are very telling.
A similar argument could be made for kimi's move on Grosjean however, but the difference is that kimi didn't necessarily steer into grosjean and they were side by side and grosjea nhad the opportunity to concede

In Hulkenberg's case, he was on the racing line and ahead when Maldonado came charging in ( fair enough) but then knowing that he wasn't going to make the pass, decided to steer into nicoH.

I went out not long after the race and have only seen it live. What I posted was in my belief that he made an error. If that was the case I would stick by my view.

However if you have watched the replay and seen if again and you say thats the case I accept it. In that case he deserved his peanlty and more besides as he has done nasty thing before. i.e Perez in Monaco and Hamilton last year in Spa, as well as Hamilton at Valencia.

If that is the case he can't have an arguement with a more stern penalty.

I will have to watch it again.

[steveaki13]

Hamilton!!

For not letting Kimi win I assume. :p :

[ArrowsFA1]

Shumi made an error, and then compounded it with a pit lane penalty. You simply don't expect that kind of thing from him.

As for Maldonado, the pattern continues. I'm not convinced it warranted a penalty, but it was a poor piece of driving again. It was neither a clean nor decisive attempt at a pass nor was he in full control of his car. At least he didn't cost his team points this time but the credit Pastor earned for his win is rapidly running out.

[Malbec]

Igornado
Kamui for getting his @ss beat by HK in the Cateram :laugh: :kiss:

:laugh:

You do realise Kamui retired two laps before the end don't you? Not hard to be beaten by a Caterham when your car is broken down in the pits. No wonder you don't rate the guy! He was set to finish just behind his teammate otherwise. Not great but hardly a poor outing either.

No real donkeys today except maybe a few strategy errors, McLaren putting Button out behind Senna comes to mind. Not sure if Lotus made an error bringing Romain in for his last pitstop too as he seemed to be stuck behind Alonso for too long.

Maldonaldo deserves a mention, I think it was a genuine error due to overenthusiasm but he has way too many of them. Might be interesting to tally up an alternative championship where Maldonaldo doesn't lose so many points due to avoidable accidents, Williams could have been challenging Sauber then.

[rjbetty]

Uhoh I take back what I said about Jenson.

Garry was so right about Vettel crying on the radio. This season is so much more interesting. Who'd have thought 11 races in he would have just 1 win, and 2 other podiums? Equal to Grosjean.

Maybe Glock for being so far behind Pic. I think he regrets not driving that now-Lotus car when he was offered it for 2010...

[tfp]

Donkeys - (pains me to say this but...) Bunson and Webber, they are both front running drivers (especially webber) and they diddnt set the race on fire like I expected. I still want Webber to be WDC.

[rjbetty]

Yeah I think Webber too now actually...

And super-reliability (20+ finishers again), but I guess that's the price to pay for having closely matched engines and cars...

Random Thought: I'm concerned that in my mind I'm starting to regard the Hungaroring as something of a classic track now, such has been the effect of Hermann Tilke on F1. The place does have some character I think, and is distinctive.

[truefan72]

Random Thought: I'm concerned that in my mind I'm starting to regard the Hungaroring as something of a classic track now, such has been the effect of Hermann Tilke on F1. The place does have some character I think, and is distinctive.

it only took me 20 years but now I agree
any non tilke or pre-tilke track is a classic imo

...but i do miss the turkey race, love that track

[N. Jones]

Michael because he decided to stop driving in 18th.

[Hawkmoon]

Donkey goes to Red Bull for giving up track position on a circuit that made passing virtually impossible. I'm also not buying Horner's excuse that the diff was playing up causing excessive tyre wear. Even if that was the case Webber would still have been better off staying out and defending his position. Considering the DRS had no effect what-so-ever Webber would hardly have been a sitting duck. Was Vettel's diff playing up too?

[aryan]

THE donkey is Maldonado. Someone should throw the book at this kid so that he stops using his car as a weapon.

Honourable mention to MSC for his brain fart, and the Maclaren and Red Bull team for putting their drivers on a three stopper when clearly track position mattered most on a track where overtaking was so difficult.

Webber and Button in particular have to be furious with their team's strategy calls.

[Tazio]

:laugh:

You do realise Kamui retired two laps before the end don't you? Not hard to be beaten by a Caterham when your car is broken down in the pits. No wonder you don't rate the guy! He was set to finish just behind his teammate otherwise. Not great but hardly a poor outing either.

No real donkeys today except maybe a few strategy errors, McLaren putting Button out behind Senna comes to mind. Not sure if Lotus made an error bringing Romain in for his last pitstop too as he seemed to be stuck behind Alonso for too long.

Maldonaldo deserves a mention, I think it was a genuine error due to overenthusiasm but he has way too many of them. Might be interesting to tally up an alternative championship where Maldonaldo doesn't lose so many points due to avoidable accidents, Williams could have been challenging Sauber then.You are correct. Kamui "could" have finished a pathetic 15th instead of 18th in a car vastly better than the Caterham. I don't think Kamui could hold HK's jock in equal cars, because he does not possess his instincts or craft. Disregarding my colorful language, Kamui was beaten by HK, fact.

As for my rating of pilots and challengers.....Scoreboard baby!! :)

[odykas]

FIA for not dropping this pathetic circuit :down:

[MAX_THRUST]

Maldonado. Yes he probably got the penalty based on recent events so he is even more of a donkey for pulling off a move and hitting someone again.

He is a donkey because he al, he al, he always does it......

[A FONDO]

Look at MSC, what a donkey!
F1 Hungaroring 2012 start - part 4 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uduDj1WVOdQ)

[donKey jote]

Has to be "confused" Gramps... doddered to the wrong start place causing an aborted start, then cut his engine cos "that's what we always did for a restart". Time moves on, things change :p
GP Ungarn 2012 (Analyse): Kimi ganz cool, Schumi ganz konfus - AUTO MOTOR UND SPORT (http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/gp-ungarn-2012-rennanalyse-kimi-cool-schumi-konfus-5306065.html)

[Bagwan]

when you lookat the replays, it was clear that maldonado deliberately steered his car into hulkenberg to intentionally shove him off the track, even worse, in doing so he made contact. the onboards are very telling.
A similar argument could be made for kimi's move on Grosjean however, but the difference is that kimi didn't necessarily steer into grosjean and they were side by side and grosjea nhad the opportunity to concede

In Hulkenberg's case, he was on the racing line and ahead when Maldonado came charging in ( fair enough) but then knowing that he wasn't going to make the pass, decided to steer into nicoH.

It looked like countersteering as he lost the grip on the rears , rather than "deliberately steered his car into" , as you put it .

If the stewards thought that it was anything like what you project on him , he would be banned .

[wedge]

It looked like countersteering as he lost the grip on the rears , rather than "deliberately steered his car into" , as you put it.

Exactly.

The car was drifting, correct the steering and still 4 wheel drifting...

[ArrowsFA1]

If the stewards thought that it was anything like what you project on him , he would be banned .
Well he wasn't banned for steering into Perez at Monaco so I wouldn't be too sure.

[Bagwan]

Well he wasn't banned for steering into Perez at Monaco so I wouldn't be too sure.

Do you think he should be punished in Hungary for his troubles in Monaco ?

[ArrowsFA1]

Do you think he should be punished in Hungary for his troubles in Monaco ?
No. Why do you ask?

[jens]

I watched the Maldonado-di Resta incident on Youtube. Well, I can't believe it was penalized. A very light touch, which didn't do harm for either driver. I have hardly seen a penalty given for a more innocent thing than that. :dozey:

[steveaki13]

Yeah I think Webber too now actually...

And super-reliability (20+ finishers again), but I guess that's the price to pay for having closely matched engines and cars...

Random Thought: I'm concerned that in my mind I'm starting to regard the Hungaroring as something of a classic track now, such has been the effect of Hermann Tilke on F1. The place does have some character I think, and is distinctive.


I agree about Hungary. Its a technical and challenging track. Its like the pitstraight and the one long corner.

We can't just have 20 circuits with massive run off and long straights and tight corners so DRS breezes people past all the time.

We need a variety of track styles for a variety of race craft. Monaco for skill and patience. Hungary techincal ability and stragey. And the fast circuits like Sliverstone, Monza and Spa.
Then we can have some tilke circuits.

They are all a vital part of an interesting F1.

[The Black Knight]

Donkey - clearly Schumacher. I was embarrassed for him and his comedy of errors.

Driver of the day - gotta go to Lewis. Flawless from start to finish. I have a feeling he has really turned the corner as a driver and I really can't see Button coming near him ever if he keeps this up. He has really put Button in the shade so far this year.

Honorable mention to Senna and Raikkonen whom had fine races.

[The Black Knight]

I watched the Maldonado-di Resta incident on Youtube. Well, I can't believe it was penalized. A very light touch, which didn't do harm for either driver. I have hardly seen a penalty given for a more innocent thing than that. :dozey:

Third time in four races Maldonado has had contact with drivers all of which were his own fault. He is an idiot. I'm unsure if he gave the position back to DiResta or not but he deserved a penalty either way.

[Bagwan]

As for Maldonado, the pattern continues. I'm not convinced it warranted a penalty, but it was a poor piece of driving again. It was neither a clean nor decisive attempt at a pass nor was he in full control of his car. At least he didn't cost his team points this time but the credit Pastor earned for his win is rapidly running out.

You asked , "Why do you ask ?" .

This earlier statement can be read to imply that move was intentional as well .
It , like this one , was a mis-judgement .

[ArrowsFA1]

You asked , "Why do you ask ?" .

This earlier statement can be read to imply that move was intentional as well .
It , like this one , was a mis-judgement .
As I said there I'm not conviced this particular incident deserved a penalty. However this was another piece of poor driving. To explain that point further I do not mean "another" in terms of deserving a penalty, I mean in terms of a pattern which perhaps reflects his ability which is costing his team valuable points. In GP2 Maldonado was prone to errors of judgement and incidents this season suggest he has not moved on much as a driver despite his win in Spain.

So no, I was not implying that his move in Hungary was intentional.

[kfzmeister]

We need a variety of track styles for a variety of race craft. Monaco for skill and patience. Hungary techincal ability and stragey. And the fast circuits like Sliverstone, Monza and Spa.
Then we can have some tilke circuits.

They are all a vital part of an interesting F1.

^This. I wish that i could remember this whenever i hear "How boring the last race was". You are absolutely right and this is exactly how it is.

[Robinho]

MS for wrong box, turning off engine and pit lane speeding, all before the end of the 1st lap, thats pretty special. plus Pastor for again having an (albeit) minor accident - he had room but was too comitted and completed the pass whilst out of control for the space left for him and forcing another car off track. Deliberate or not it was another boneheaded move that falls outside the rules - you can't just chuck it up the inside relying on the other car to slow you down as you run out of track

[zako85]

when you lookat the replays, it was clear that maldonado deliberately steered his car into hulkenberg to intentionally shove him off the track, even worse, in doing so he made contact. the onboards are very telling.


That Maldonado was intentionally forcing Di Resta off the track is not clear at all. Maldonado steered his car intentionally to the left as he was passive Di Resta in the turn. However, it is not clear from the on-board shots if Maldonado was steering intentionally to force Di Resta off the track or whether his rear end got twitchy in the turn and he decided to steer to counter the overseer. The direction of the car and of the steer maneuver is consistent with the oversteer correction theory IMO. If he started to lose the rear end, it probably would have hit Di Resta's car without the steering maneuver in the direction of drift. If we had shots from other angles, we would certainly have more information to judge what was going on there.

This certainly was an aggressive overtake attempt. But let's get real: It's very hard to overtake on tracks like Hungary and Monaco without doing something very aggressive. Button was on fresh tires and he was stuck behind a slower car for a loong time. Raikonnen was on fresher tires behind Hamilton within one second and couldn't overtake. Button tried many hyper-aggressive moves to go around Petrov's Caterham in Monaco until he crashed into Petrov's rear in the end.

[Knock-on]

I really fail to understand what the problem is here.

Pastor has a clear record of colliding with drivers in the process of passing them or defending from them. On some occassions we have seen it is deliderate and on others it appears he has no control and merely runs into them. We even have people on here criticising other drivers for daring to pass or defend against Pastor because they know what he's like. WTF????

Here we have yet another example of Maldonado makig contact, running another competitor off track and gaining a position. Did Paul lose control of his car earlier in the corner when he left racing room for Pastor? No. Yet some here want to excuse Pastor for failing to do the same, colliding with another competitor, gaining a position and not even making an attempt to give it back.

I'm glad he got a penalty. I would give him a penalty if he so much as sneezes in the diretion of another competitor until he gets it into his thick scull that this isn't touring cars and if he wants to hold onto his super licence, then he'd better buck his ideas up.

[CaptainRaiden]

MS. Couldn't he have waited a few more seconds before shutting the engine off?

[ShiftingGears]

It's pretty incredible the amount of people who would in the same breath critisise the Hungaroring for noone being able to pass and then blaming Maldonado for actually making a pass that wasn't 100% perfect.

FsqJFIJ5lLs


I really fail to understand what the problem is here.

Pastor has a clear record of colliding with drivers in the process of passing them or defending from them. On some occassions we have seen it is deliderate and on others it appears he has no control and merely runs into them. We even have people on here criticising other drivers for daring to pass or defend against Pastor because they know what he's like. WTF????

Here we have yet another example of Maldonado makig contact, running another competitor off track and gaining a position. Did Paul lose control of his car earlier in the corner when he left racing room for Pastor? No. Yet some here want to excuse Pastor for failing to do the same, colliding with another competitor, gaining a position and not even making an attempt to give it back.

I don't know what point you are trying to make here - unless you are accusing some of hypocrisy, you are merely stating different opinions held by different people.


I'm glad he got a penalty. I would give him a penalty if he so much as sneezes in the diretion of another competitor until he gets it into his thick scull that this isn't touring cars and if he wants to hold onto his super licence, then he'd better buck his ideas up.

I am assuming, for consistency, you held the exact same stance towards Lewis Hamilton in 2011?

Penalties should be allocated based on the merits of individual events alone. Maldonado is not on probation nor is he serving a suspended ban, so there is no logical reason why incidents involving him should be treated differently to any other driver.

[zako85]

Here we have yet another example of Maldonado makig contact, running another competitor off track and gaining a position. Did Paul lose control of his car earlier in the corner when he left racing room for Pastor? No. Yet some here want to excuse Pastor for failing to do the same, colliding with another competitor, gaining a position and not even making an attempt to give it back.




So there should be a drive through penalty for all cars making contact on the track for whatever reason? The rule should be a rule and it should be applied equally to all, and the new rules should not be made on the spot IMO. If this is punishable, I would really like to see for the rest of this season all drivers who lose their car and hit others penalized also.

Maldonado did leave room for Di Resta's car. That is, before he had to steer correct the slide of his car.

[Tazio]

It's pretty incredible the amount of people who would in the same breath critisise the Hungaroring for noone being able to pass and then blaming Maldonado for actually making a pass that wasn't 100% perfect.

FsqJFIJ5lLs



I don't know what point you are trying to make here - unless you are accusing some of hypocrisy, you are merely stating different opinions held by different people.



I am assuming, for consistency, you held the exact same stance towards Lewis Hamilton in 2011?

Penalties should be allocated based on the merits of individual events alone. Maldonado is not on probation nor is he serving a suspended ban, so there is no logical reason why incidents involving him should be treated differently to any other driver.
You're addressing the mentality that holds Felipe baby, after losing a front wing on turn one while in the usual clusterfvck at the start of an F1 race responsible for ruining the race of his hero instead of saying the stewards may have made a mistake by not bringing out a safety car. :dozey:

[wedge]

However this was another piece of poor driving.

Had it been someone like Gilles Villeneuve and not Maldonado it would have been a different story.

[Malbec]

I really fail to understand what the problem is here.

Pastor has a clear record of colliding with drivers in the process of passing them or defending from them. On some occassions we have seen it is deliderate and on others it appears he has no control and merely runs into them. We even have people on here criticising other drivers for daring to pass or defend against Pastor because they know what he's like. WTF????

Here we have yet another example of Maldonado makig contact, running another competitor off track and gaining a position. Did Paul lose control of his car earlier in the corner when he left racing room for Pastor? No. Yet some here want to excuse Pastor for failing to do the same, colliding with another competitor, gaining a position and not even making an attempt to give it back.

I'm glad he got a penalty. I would give him a penalty if he so much as sneezes in the diretion of another competitor until he gets it into his thick scull that this isn't touring cars and if he wants to hold onto his super licence, then he'd better buck his ideas up.

Should we treat each individual case on its own merits or just look at who got involved and penalise them purely on that?

I rewatched the 'collision', it was a pretty good move from Pastor until he lost the back end a wee bit and hit the FI. Sure, he gained the place but both cars managed to carry on undamaged. If that should have been penalised then lets be thorough and fair and simply penalise every overtake that results in contact. Had Lewis made a similar move (and lets face it, he has done many times in the past) would you be so vocal?

[Malbec]

It's pretty incredible the amount of people who would in the same breath critisise the Hungaroring for noone being able to pass and then blaming Maldonado for actually making a pass that wasn't 100% perfect.

FsqJFIJ5lLs



I don't know what point you are trying to make here - unless you are accusing some of hypocrisy, you are merely stating different opinions held by different people.



I am assuming, for consistency, you held the exact same stance towards Lewis Hamilton in 2011?

Penalties should be allocated based on the merits of individual events alone. Maldonado is not on probation nor is he serving a suspended ban, so there is no logical reason why incidents involving him should be treated differently to any other driver.

Should have read your post before writing mine, completely agree with all of your points.

[Knock-on]

You're addressing the mentality that holds Felipe baby, after losing a front wing on turn one while in the usual clusterfvck at the start of an F1 race responsible for ruining the race of his hero instead of saying the stewards may have made a mistake by not bringing out a safety car. :dozey:

Felipe was responsible for a bone headed move by driving into the back of someone but Charlie should have brought out the SC looking at how much debris was on the track from Massa's front wing.

Clear enough?

I did make a tongue in cheek comment about Massa destroying Hamiltons race even when he doesn't mean to but if you cannot understand humour and insist on taking an off the cuff comment seriously then you will struggle with a lot of my posts fella ;)

[Knock-on]

I have criticised Hamilton in the past and voted him Donkey of the race as well. Sometimes I was as dissapointed as others on here and only ever defend him when I think he's been harshly dealt with such as the Spa debarcle.

With Pastor, he seems to have an incident every race. This latest one was again where his driving resulted in a collission which he gained a place from.

Now come on, if a driver makes an mistake which results in a collission that pushes another driver off track and he gets a place as a consequense, then what the hell should happen? If Pastor had of given the place back like Vettel should have done in Germany, then I doubt the Stewards would have taken any action.

However, he didn't and the Stewards did the right thing.

[Tazio]

Felipe was responsible for a bone headed move by driving into the back of someone but Charlie should have brought out the SC looking at how much debris was on the track from Massa's front wing.

Clear enough?

I did make a tongue in cheek comment about Massa destroying Hamiltons race even when he doesn't mean to but if you cannot understand humour and insist on taking an off the cuff comment seriously then you will struggle with a lot of my posts fella ;) He caused the contact I do not disagree. Driving for his F1 life he was trying to take places at the start, which the F2012 has been fantastic at.
Cheers

[ArrowsFA1]

Had it been someone like Gilles Villeneuve and not Maldonado it would have been a different story.
To quote Keke Rosberg: "Gilles was the hardest ******* I ever raced against, but completely fair. If you'd beaten him to a corner, he accepted it and gave you room. Then he'd be right back at you at the next one! Sure, he took unbelievable risks - but only with himself."

[The Black Knight]

At this point in time I believe it now appropriate to point out that I was right about Mr. Maldonado:

http://www.motorsportforums.com/f1/142360-hamilton-maybe-its-because-im-black-25.html#post928535

[wedge]

To quote Keke Rosberg: "Gilles was the hardest ******* I ever raced against, but completely fair. If you'd beaten him to a corner, he accepted it and gave you room. Then he'd be right back at you at the next one! Sure, he took unbelievable risks - but only with himself."

What was Keke smoking?

Gilles banged wheels with Arnoux and is regarded as a hero.

Gilles fought tooth and nail to the point he would never gave away a millimetre.

8ESdZeEPdhE

[ArrowsFA1]

When did we last hear a current driver say of Maldonado: "If you beat him to a corner, he'll accept it and give you room."

[steveaki13]

I'm glad he got a penalty. I would give him a penalty if he so much as sneezes in the diretion of another competitor until he gets it into his thick scull that this isn't touring cars and if he wants to hold onto his super licence, then he'd better buck his ideas up.

I hope that F1 is a proffesional sport and the stewards shouldn't judge him on past errors.

Each individual case must be viewed as a driver making a mistake or intentionally colliding with another or whatever. The point is stewards should never get to the point where the judge a driver before his next incident.

He has made bad mistakes in the past and this was seen by the stewards as another. Which is fair enough thats what they are there for. What the must not do is see a slightly agreesive defend of position for example and give him a 30 second penalty because he has crashed 4 times before.

Each incident and penalty is a opened and closed book. If he also gets a repremand that should be viewed as a closed case until such time where he has 2 or 3 whatever it is and then action of a ban or whatever it might be should be enforced.

The stewards must never in any Sport pre judge and look for a reason to give him his next penalty.

We must have faith that the system works and if and when Maldonado needs a ban then the stewards will give him one.

[steveaki13]

It's pretty incredible the amount of people who would in the same breath critisise the Hungaroring for noone being able to pass and then blaming Maldonado for actually making a pass that wasn't 100% perfect.

FsqJFIJ5lLs



I don't know what point you are trying to make here - unless you are accusing some of hypocrisy, you are merely stating different opinions held by different people.



I am assuming, for consistency, you held the exact same stance towards Lewis Hamilton in 2011?

Penalties should be allocated based on the merits of individual events alone. Maldonado is not on probation nor is he serving a suspended ban, so there is no logical reason why incidents involving him should be treated differently to any other driver.

Wow I just posted above. But I didn't need to. I agree 100% with this.


So there should be a drive through penalty for all cars making contact on the track for whatever reason? The rule should be a rule and it should be applied equally to all, and the new rules should not be made on the spot IMO. If this is punishable, I would really like to see for the rest of this season all drivers who lose their car and hit others penalized also.

Maldonado did leave room for Di Resta's car. That is, before he had to steer correct the slide of his car.

I agree. I seem to remember Kobayashi bumping wheel to wheel with Button in Barcelona and not getting a penalty. Why was that? It looked like a great move to me.

He nudged Button wide. Whats the difference???


Should we treat each individual case on its own merits or just look at who got involved and penalise them purely on that?

I rewatched the 'collision', it was a pretty good move from Pastor until he lost the back end a wee bit and hit the FI. Sure, he gained the place but both cars managed to carry on undamaged. If that should have been penalised then lets be thorough and fair and simply penalise every overtake that results in contact. Had Lewis made a similar move (and lets face it, he has done many times in the past) would you be so vocal?
This

[steveaki13]

I know its not such a sudden hit, but Kamui still pushes Button aside with contact and gains a position. Why no Penalty?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INRgqd5h0bs

[wedge]

When did we last hear a current driver say of Maldonado: "If you beat him to a corner, he'll accept it and give you room."

That says it all.

Pastor Maldonado guilty of being Pastor Maldonado.

[keysersoze]

If Pastor had a clean record going into Hungary that move is not penalized, perhaps not even reviewed. IMO.

I liked the move. I applauded the move. Yet given the context of the contact, I agree with the penalty, even though it seemed as if PM was merely countersteering, as others have observed, and not steering directly into Paul.

The mantra from race control has been revealed: "You will all be treated fairly, but not necessarily equally." I don't have a problem with that.

[rjbetty]

Who needs Sato when you have MALDONADO?!

I was going to say at least Pastor hasn't done something as totally idiotic as crashing into his team-mate at turn 2 of the Malaysian GP, as Sato did to Fisichella 10 years ago, denying him and the Jordan team of a likely and much-needed points finish. But then I remembered he did exactly that to Senna and Paul di Resta...

[ArrowsFA1]

That says it all.

Pastor Maldonado guilty of being Pastor Maldonado.
:confused:

[wedge]

:confused:

Pastor Maldonado has a reputation where even in a racing incident some people like to point fingers at him.

[ArrowsFA1]

Pastor Maldonado has a reputation where even in a racing incident some people like to point fingers at him.
Yes he does have a reputation for being involved in incidents. He's not the first, nor the last, driver to earn such a reputation.

As I've already said I'm not conviced this particular incident deserved a penalty, but it was similar enough to previous incidents to suggest he's not learning or progressing as a driver.

That has nothing to do with Pastor being guilty of being Pastor, but everything to do with Pastor not learning from his mistakes.

[MAX_THRUST]

Is F1 still using different stewards at each race? There is your answer. Lack of consistancy in the giving out of penalties. Pastor is guilty of being Pastor as Lewis was guilty of being Lewis a while back. The only way to stop getting penalties is to calm down and drive perfectly. Then eyes will turn to someone else, and they will ease up on you as you have clealy learnt your lesson as you have stopped knocking into everyone.

[wedge]

That has nothing to do with Pastor being guilty of being Pastor, but everything to do with Pastor not learning from his mistakes.

What mistake in Hungary? Is it a gross error to race wheel to wheel and take too much kerb (which caused the oversteer)?

And what is so wrong with a tank-slapper when after correction the natural tendency of the car is to drift?

F1 Unkarin GP 2012: Maldonado ja Di Resta kolaroivat - Video Dailymotion (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xshkzm_f1-unkarin-gp-2012-maldonado-ja-di-resta-kolaroivat_sport)

Is it not similar to Bourdais barging into Massa in Fuji 2008?

Vidéo GP Japon 2008 Bourdais Massa accrochage de F1-VIDEO (Sport - F1-VIDEO) - wat.tv (http://www.wat.tv/video/gp-japon-2008-bourdais-massa-106ez_2fh4r_.html)

Bourdais was penalised by the stewards yet the consensus was that Bourdais was innocent.

http://www.motorsportforums.com/f1/130056-bourdais-penalty-*part-2*.html#post545674

[Malbec]

That has nothing to do with Pastor being guilty of being Pastor

From what I understand it has a lot to do with Pastor being Pastor.

Apparently he's a cocky little sh*t in real life who invites being slapped down into place purely based on his personality. Even at Spa last year where he collided with Lewis the stewards asked him to leave and re-enter in a manner that was respectful to everyone else in the room.

That he keeps getting involved in silly little incidents like this even where he is not at fault means that the stewards get plenty of opportunity to slap him down. That is not how it should be but unfortunately the stewards are only human too.

I don't know what mentoring Wurz is doing over at Williams but it clearly isn't enough!

[ArrowsFA1]

I don't know what mentoring Wurz is doing over at Williams but it clearly isn't enough!
Well, I hope whatever work he's doing will have its effect in time because the mistakes/errors/misjudgements Pastor has made are proving to be costly for the team. Meanwhile, on the other side of the garage Senna is steadily gathering points and (IMHO) improving.

[Dave B]

Had it been someone like Gilles Villeneuve and not Maldonado it would have been a different story.
When GV did it people called it drifting and were wetting their pants in excitement. Anybody else does the same and it's called losing control of your car.

[Knock-on]

I know its not such a sudden hit, but Kamui still pushes Button aside with contact and gains a position. Why no Penalty?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INRgqd5h0bs

That is a great move. Caught Jenson napping and stuffed it up the inside. Then he left loads of room for Jenson when leaving the corner.

I can't see the comparison????

[keysersoze]

Meanwhile, on the other side of the garage Senna is steadily gathering points and (IMHO) improving.

Yep. Eleven races down and Senna has scored points in 6 of them. Meanwhile, Maldonado has scored points in just two races.