Some interesting regulation propositions for 2008

[ioan]

I didn't read it all so I won't comment, yet.
Here's the link:
http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/4042041__2008_F1_TECHNICAL_REGULATIONS.pdf

Have a good lecture! :)

[Robinho]

a well thought out document, seems no scope for misunderstanding nothingness :)

[jens]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/57702

This would probably be one of the most significant changes. We are going to see sliding cars in wet conditions again. :)

[CharlieJ]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/57702

This would probably be one of the most significant changes. We are going to see sliding cars in wet conditions again. :)
Hooray!!! Then we'll get to see who the real drivers are. :burnout:

[BTCC Fan#1]

I see they've dropped the plans to go back to slicks then... :s

[ioan]

Don't worry, they change their minds every other week! :D

[zoostation]

im afraid im not that technically minded, so can anyone give a quick overview of any major changes or differences we could see?

[Schnell]

Lots of tyre smoke, and spins!

[jens]

Hooray!!! Then we'll get to see who the real drivers are. :burnout:

Maybe after some time experienced drivers will be valued again!

[ArrowsFA1]

Autosport's headline did it for me - FIA abandons plans for wider cars, slicks :rolleyes:

Now I'm not too sure about the slicks/grooves argument. They managed with treaded tyres well enough in the past, although Gilles's arguments in favour of slicks have always struck a chord with me.

No, it's the narrow cars that depressed me. The move to narrower cars in 1998 (??) stuffed things up and to continue along that road means nothing much is likely to change :down:

[trumperZ06]

;) Well, if they eliminate traction control systems...

it SHOULD seperate the men from the boys on the race track.

:D Gonna be fun watching the F-1 jockies pedal around in wet weather.

[Sandfly]

I'm wondering - No device to alert the driver of the onset of wheel spin --

Doesn't a tachometer do just that???

[Roamy]

this can only be good - now get rid of the automatic gear boxes and make them drive

[tintop]

this can only be good - now get rid of the automatic gear boxes and make them drive :up: :up: :up:

[ratonmacias]

this can only be good - now get rid of the automatic gear boxes and make them drive

and lets get rid of the pitstops and make them overtake.

[CarlMetro]

.........and all the add-on aero parts and let them get close enough to overtake on the track too.

[Dazz9908]

Don't worry, they change their minds every other week! :D
That's so true! :up:

this can only be good - now get rid of the automatic gear boxes and make them drive
Now that's what I'll really want! :)

[BTCC2]

http://www.formula1.com/news/5857.html

This might be an advantage to Jenson Button.

[Kevincal]

Well, that should stir the field up a bit! Can't wait to see it.

[ShiftingGears]

YES! Good move by the FIA.

[tinchote]

It will be good if they finally get rid of TC (and LC, too). Too bad this was delayed several years by Frank and Ron.

I still don't like many of the new restrictions. They are increasing the minimum weight and decreasing the car size, so a lot more ballast to be used to improve handling. Fixed sizes everywhere, fixed engine configuration, even fixed materials. And still there is no real attack on the main cause of F1's problem, which is increased dependence on aero grip: that dependence will be bigger in 2008, so not a lot will change.

[Bolton Midnight]

http://www.formula1.com/news/5857.html

This might be an advantage to Jenson Button.


Spot on, great news for JB

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6511907.stm

[wedge]

ROFLMAO!!!!

Seems like JB needs every help he can get bar getting a car that can fight for WDC!!!

Banning TC won't be hugely advantageous. The good drivers will be able to adapt to the conditions given. Schumi drove with a heavy right foot yet is the rain-meister and it was the same with Senna except he wanted TC banned in the early 90s!

[Bolton Midnight]

Button is probably the smoothest driver currently in F1 and without Traction Control his skill will shine. Those less smooth drivers will suffer the most.

[ClarkFan]

Autosport's headline did it for me - FIA abandons plans for wider cars, slicks :rolleyes:

Now I'm not too sure about the slicks/grooves argument. They managed with treaded tyres well enough in the past, although Gilles's arguments in favour of slicks have always struck a chord with me.

No, it's the narrow cars that depressed me. The move to narrower cars in 1998 (??) stuffed things up and to continue along that road means nothing much is likely to change :down:

Afraid that you hit the nail squarely on the head. The goal should be to get back to cars that the driver can "take in hand" and use feel and daring to make passing moves. (See http://www.motorsportcollector.com/0706IMAGES/Collection/Villeneuve2.jpeg or http://www.jsolana.com.mx/fotos/pilotos/clark2.jpg )

Banning traction control may not even make net progress. You still have overly narrow (i.e., unstable) cars without enough mechanical grip for a drive to have the feel to wrestle them around a corner. And the FIA needs to set real limits on aerodynamics (and not the stupid/ugly split wing idea) so that slipstreaming is an advantage again.

http://atlasf1.autosport.com/99/ita/preview/nostalgia4.jpg

ClarkFan

[Ranger]

Button is probably the smoothest driver currently in F1 and without Traction Control his skill will shine. Those less smooth drivers will suffer the most.

Regardless, the best drivers will always be at the top of the crop, no matter what rules and regulations are dished at them.

[kalasend]

Spot on, great news for JB

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6511907.stm

I bet you knew this is just a wish.

[wedge]

Regardless, the best drivers will always be at the top of the crop, no matter what rules and regulations are dished at them.

Exactly! :up:

Why is that Schumi relies heavily on TC in the dry and yet in the wet his throttle input is super smooth?

When Senna joined McLaren there were certain doubts how he could match up against Prost because due to Senna's aggressive driving style, he had the worst fuel consumption and engine reliability of all the Honda driver in the mid-1980s, and yet Senna still became multiple WDC!

[waitey]

not a bad idea actually with the traction control. However they should leave them with semi-automatics at this stage. Formula 1 is the pinnacle, the gear changes are unbelievable and yes making them manually change gears with a clutch would mean having to do more inside the cockpit, i dont think it would change too much. All of these drivers are good drivers, and so i think you would see the best drivers still winning it wouldnt change anything. Also, it would just increase the lap times dramatically and i DO NOT WANT to see that. F1 is the pinnacle with technology, leave it how it is. I love it how it is now, i am obsessed with formula 1 and love it, for heavens sake so many people blame the FIA for changing the rules all the time but they are hypocrites because they just call for rule changes all the times like themselves. I love formula 1 now, its exciting, leave it how it is. In soccer sometimes they dont even score yet its basically the most followed sport in the world, so if we could relate formula 1 passing with soccer goals, then what are we complaining about. They do pass, a lot. People exagerate the passing problem a lot i think. Yes they could make them pass more, but it would just mean more changes to the sport and i like f1 how it is. LEAVE IT ALONE

[jso1985]

waitey :up: , honestly, isn't F1 much more than just overtaking?


the TC ban is surely a good move, but I don't think we should start discussing wich drivers will benefit, all 22 of them have the whole winter testing to adapt it and as always the best drivers adpat best, so no changes there I think.

[Bolton Midnight]

Without TC or winglets we won't see a return to the sideways antics of yesteryear. If you watch a really quick rally Escort Mk 2 (RWD) or WTCC BMW 318 (RWD) driver they are not sideways, but neat and tidy.

[luvracin]

How long has variable valve timing been "not permitted"?!

..and Fuel Pressure supplied to injectors not to exceed 100bar, but at the same time, fuel must be injected into the side or top of the inlet port. So that's Direct Injection fuel pressures in a Port fuel injection fuel system configuration.... interesting......

[wedge]

VVT has been banned for a long time, over a decade at least.

I'm surprised no one yet mentioned Electronic Stability Program. There was rumours of this circulated during the Melbourne GP.

[Sleeper]

I've seen a lot of really silly comments about TC in this thread. It made near BUGGER ALL difference when it was re-introduced in the Spanish GP of 2001, and it will make near BUGGER ALL difference when its banned for next year, though dont get me wrong, I do want it gone. What I saw in last years Hungarian GP is that in the wet, TC isnt going to save you if you get well out of shape in the wet (how manny times did we see Massa, Speed and Kubica spinning in that race?), and that from regularly reading Autosport it seems that all the talant is used on corner entry these days, not exit.

To the person that mentioned Launch Controle, as far as I know thats been banned for about 2 years or so.

As for the aerodynamics, big changes are needed, but what a lot of people here dont realize is that its not quite how much you've got, but how its produced that counts. GP2 and Champ Cars both arent short on downforce but its produced mainly from the floor rather than upper body surfaces, which means that its not as suceptable to turbulance.

As for Electronic Stability Programs, I want to hear a lot more about this but from the little I have heard, I'm worried.

[tinchote]

To the person that mentioned Launch Controle, as far as I know thats been banned for about 2 years or so.


Electronic TC has been banned for two years, but that doesn't mean that they are not using it. Most likely some kind of mechanical system, or even electronic: they are not testing for spinning, but they respect a pre-selected sequence of RPM and gear changes.

[CarlMetro]

It made near BUGGER ALL difference when it was re-introduced in the Spanish GP of 2001, and it will make near BUGGER ALL difference when its banned for next year

I suggest you go sit at a track on the outside of a high accerlaration bend, somewhere like Luffield at Silverstone for instance. Make sure that you're there for both GP2 and F1 and then tell me that TC doesn't make a difference. The GP2 cars will ALL feed there throttles in gradually, being careful not to push too hard too soon. The F1 cars will ALL quite simply plant the accelerator foot flat to the floor, letting the traction control sort out just how much acceleration the rear wheels can handle.

[Mark]

Over the years F1 drivers (especially those joining the sport since 2001) have come to rely on the traction control to sort things out for them, bascially just mashing the throttle on the exit of the corners. This will sort out who is the best drivers, and I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the current stars struggling in 2008.

No slicks is disappointing, with no tyre war, why not?!

[ioan]

No slicks is disappointing, with no tyre war, why not?!


Must be about cost cutting.

[XR8]

Down at the Melbourne F1 GP I was watching the cars at the corner leading on to the pit straight.It was quite apparent that the ferarri drivers were either off the throttle or full on through these series of corners as there engines would pop and bang all the way through untill they reached a straight line.In contrast most of the other cars you could hear the drivers modulate the throttle to balance the car.It was quite evident to me that the Ferraris had a lot better electronics(t/c) than the other cars possibly with the exception of mclaren as the drivers could just mash the throttle and hang on.

[Sleeper]

I suggest you go sit at a track on the outside of a high accerlaration bend, somewhere like Luffield at Silverstone for instance. Make sure that you're there for both GP2 and F1 and then tell me that TC doesn't make a difference. The GP2 cars will ALL feed there throttles in gradually, being careful not to push too hard too soon. The F1 cars will ALL quite simply plant the accelerator foot flat to the floor, letting the traction control sort out just how much acceleration the rear wheels can handle.
I'd take that up if I could afford it.

Is there any difference besides the engine note, and the fact that we all know that GP2 cars can get sideways under power quite a bit? If TC gets banned the only difference is that drivers will have to make a change in the way they feed in the throttle, a skill they should all have learnt anyway in the juniour formulas. The drivers in both series are just driving to the limit of their respective machinery, in F1 at the moment that just means mashing the throttle when they come out of a tight corner and letting the TC do the work, but it doesnt mean they dont all have the skills to controle wheelspin.

[CarlMetro]

I'll grant you the fact that they should have all learnt the skills in their previous careers but many of them have been in F1 for a long time and will have to re-gain that skill all over again. Drivers like Barachello, Trulli and Fisichella probably can't remember the last time they drove a racing car without traction control and it is like anything else, if you get used to doing something one way and then have to change to an old way, it takes a bit of time to get used to the old ways again.

[andreag]

I don't think Rubens and Fissi and probably Trulli (sorry Andrea), will have to remember how to drive a F1 car without TC next year, neither with TC.

At least two of them won't be driving a F1 car anymore.

[ioan]

I thought Trulli has a contract for next year.

[Ranger]

I thought Trulli has a contract for next year.
Yep, barring a seemingly unlikely injury or fallout from within the team, he'll be there until the end of 2009.

[wedge]

Is there any difference besides the engine note, and the fact that we all know that GP2 cars can get sideways under power quite a bit? If TC gets banned the only difference is that drivers will have to make a change in the way they feed in the throttle, a skill they should all have learnt anyway in the juniour formulas. The drivers in both series are just driving to the limit of their respective machinery, in F1 at the moment that just means mashing the throttle when they come out of a tight corner and letting the TC do the work, but it doesnt mean they dont all have the skills to controle wheelspin.

There'll be some power-oversteer. Don't know how blatant this will be because the cars produce tremendous amounts of grip these days. These days you have to pay attention to the onboard footage to get a good idea of the skill involved which means there'll be more steering input exiting corners, not just throttle input.

I don't think people are bothered whether the cars go sideways or not, just glad and respectful that its the drivers doing the hard work, not the ECU.

[ClarkFan]

There'll be some power-oversteer. Don't know how blatant this will be because the cars produce tremendous amounts of grip these days. These days you have to pay attention to the onboard footage to get a good idea of the skill involved which means there'll be more steering input exiting corners, not just throttle input.

I don't think people are bothered whether the cars go sideways or not, just glad and respectful that its the drivers doing the hard work, not the ECU.

Oh, there should be power oversteer, expecially at the exits of slower corners - where aero grip has the least effect. There would be less effect somewhere like Eau Rouge, where the cars are going really fast.

As a racing fan, power oversteer = :up:

:p

ClarkFan

[Valve Bounce]

I remain constant in my advocation of the banning all on-board computers.

[ArrowsFA1]

Drivers like Barachello, Trulli and Fisichella probably can't remember the last time they drove a racing car without traction control and it is like anything else, if you get used to doing something one way and then have to change to an old way, it takes a bit of time to get used to the old ways again.
At the Canadian GP in 2001, during a wet qualifying session, Rubens Barrichello managed to spin his Ferrari exiting the hairpin. When asked how could this happen with TC he said:
"Because the system glitched. I nailed the throttle as if I had traction control - and suddenly I hadn't! That was when I really understood what traction control did, believe me! And I thought, 'We're all going to forget how to drive...'"