BBC vs Sky - The Story so Far

[Bezza]

So, 9 races in, almost halfway, lets compare BBC v Sky.

First of all I must say it is absolutely fantastic that we have TWO channels with F1 here in the UK. I have Sky so it didn’t affect me as much as some others when the deal was announced last year.

Picture/Sound quality (HD): Sky > BBC. As Dave B has alluded to in another thread, the Silverstone roar was much more audible on Sky (and I was at the GP, it was loud!) whereas BBC you couldn’t quite hear it.
Special features: BBC > Sky. Quite a close one, but the BBC’s relaxed manner wins out, my fave being Jenson & Lewis trying to do their jobs!
Overall channel/additional input: Sky > BBC. A dedicated channel has been a godsend. Old races, season reviews, special features, support races, legends interviews, additional coverage and multiple chances to watch highlights give Sky a big thumbs up. The F1 forum is excellent and the BBC do a good job with what they have, but with the resources of a dedicated channel, Sky wins out.

On to the teams:

Humphrey vs Lazenby: BBC > Sky. Jake has a comfortable edge, Lazenby at times is cringeworthy such as in Barcelona when the pit fire happened, he was just reeling off speculative events “we’ve just heard that a man came out with his legs on fire” is something that should be not be said by a sports presenter. Decent effort from Sky, but Lazenby needs to improve.
DC/EJ vs DH/JH: BBC > Sky. Quite comfortably DC & EJ as the analysers to Jake, Damon is not bad but Johnny Herbert is poor and reminds me too much of Blundell. If I was Sky, I would work hard to persuade Jacques Villeneuve to come on permanently, as he is the “says what he thinks” character they need.
Croft vs Edwards Sky > BBC. I am surprised by this as I didn’t like Croft prior to this seasn, but he sounds more natural as lead commentator of F1 to me, Ben a close second, vast improvement over Legard /Allen!
Brundle vs Coulthard. Sky > BBC. Brundle makes me watch the Sky coverage during the race, he is still fantastic at his job. DC isn’t bad, but he just isn’t quick enough to read a race like Brundle does, with his dry wit along the way.
McKenzie vs Pinkham. BBC > Sky. Quite easily McKenzie. I like to see women in F1, but they need to not play up to a stereotype of “flirty attitude” towards F1 drivers. Lee McKenzie is fantastic at not doing that while still getting the information out of the drivers. Pinkham flirts uncomfortably, especially with Paul di Resta.
Anderson vs Kravitz. BBC > Sky. A close one, Kravtiz hasn’t done much wrong, but Anderson’s technical knowledge is second to none.

Georgie Thompson/Anthony Davidson – not real point in them being there, they do not add anything to the coverage. Davidson, along with McNish and Chandhok, represents a dedicedly average F1 driver judging much better drivers.

Overall then

BBC 5 Sky 4 - A very close call!

What does everybody else think?

[Dave B]

I'll take your points one at a time:


So, 9 races in, almost halfway, lets compare BBC v Sky.
Ok then :D


First of all I must say it is absolutely fantastic that we have TWO channels with F1 here in the UK. I have Sky so it didn’t affect me as much as some others when the deal was announced last year.
I agree, competition usually drives up standards. I already had Sky but had knocked the HD pack on the head, but I reinstated it (at a hefty discount!) to get the F1 channel.


Picture/Sound quality (HD): Sky > BBC. As Dave B has alluded to in another thread, the Silverstone roar was much more audible on Sky (and I was at the GP, it was loud!) whereas BBC you couldn’t quite hear it.
As you'd expect, I agree. Sky knocks the Beeb's quality out of the park, although the BBC have recently made some small improvements to their picture quality ready for the Olympics. The interactive features on Sky are head and shoulders above the BBC's, which in turn were far better than anything ITV ever attempted.


Special features: BBC > Sky. Quite a close one, but the BBC’s relaxed manner wins out, my fave being Jenson & Lewis trying to do their jobs!
I tend to agree. Sky's build-ups, while massively long, often contain a lot of filler. The Beeb's experience in this - and programme making in general - shows.


Overall channel/additional input: Sky > BBC. A dedicated channel has been a godsend. Old races, season reviews, special features, support races, legends interviews, additional coverage and multiple chances to watch highlights give Sky a big thumbs up. The F1 forum is excellent and the BBC do a good job with what they have, but with the resources of a dedicated channel, Sky wins out.
Again agreed. That said the BBC's Silverstone forum was simply phenomenal.



On to the teams:

Humphrey vs Lazenby: BBC > Sky. Jake has a comfortable edge, Lazenby at times is cringeworthy such as in Barcelona when the pit fire happened, he was just reeling off speculative events “we’ve just heard that a man came out with his legs on fire” is something that should be not be said by a sports presenter. Decent effort from Sky, but Lazenby needs to improve.
Or indeed his poor attempt at a Princess Grace joke in Monaco, or the panic in his eyes when they go off-plan. Jake is one of the best presenters the BBC has got, full stop, and his experience with live telly (including kids') is an obvious asset.


DC/EJ vs DH/JH: BBC > Sky. Quite comfortably DC & EJ as the analysers to Jake, Damon is not bad but Johnny Herbert is poor and reminds me too much of Blundell. If I was Sky, I would work hard to persuade Jacques Villeneuve to come on permanently, as he is the “says what he thinks” character they need.
I disagree on that one, I think that while Coulthard has relaxed into the job EJ is becoming more of a knobhead. Hill was wooden as the New Forest when he started but now has a natural rhythm on camera, and guests like Herbert or Allan McNish have proven inspired choices.


Croft vs Edwards Sky > BBC. I am surprised by this as I didn’t like Croft prior to this seasn, but he sounds more natural as lead commentator of F1 to me, Ben a close second, vast improvement over Legard /Allen!
I worshiped Ben's touring car commentary but for me he doesn't seem to have brought that quiet confidence with him to F1. I know he's called it before, but there seem to be a few too many basic errors and he does occasionally get a bit flustered during busy periods such as the start. He's still phenomenally good, a country mile better than Legard, but Croft just about edges it for me.


Brundle vs Coulthard. Sky > BBC. Brundle makes me watch the Sky coverage during the race, he is still fantastic at his job. DC isn’t bad, but he just isn’t quick enough to read a race like Brundle does, with his dry wit along the way.
Agreed again. DC has really stepped up but Brundle is authoritative, precise, and notices tiny details that many others miss.


McKenzie vs Pinkham. BBC > Sky. Quite easily McKenzie. I like to see women in F1, but they need to not play up to a stereotype of “flirty attitude” towards F1 drivers. Lee McKenzie is fantastic at not doing that while still getting the information out of the drivers. Pinkham flirts uncomfortably, especially with Paul di Resta.
Pinkham is simply awful. I keep expecting questions like "what's your star sign" and "what's your favourite colour". It appears from what we see on screen that the drivers repect McKenzie a lot more - she's been a motorsport journo for years and has earned her stripes in less glamorous formulae, meeting many of the drivers on the way.


Anderson vs Kravitz. BBC > Sky. A close one, Kravtiz hasn’t done much wrong, but Anderson’s technical knowledge is second to none.
Apples and oranges. Kravitz is superb at analysis and tactics, Anderson is superb at technical detail. It's a shame we can't merge them and make one supernerd!


Georgie Thompson/Anthony Davidson – not real point in them being there, they do not add anything to the coverage. Davidson, along with McNish and Chandhok, represents a dedicedly average F1 driver judging much better drivers.
I like Ant, but the whole SkyPad idea is a little daft. They'd be better off getting the paddock guys to talk about the action rather than relying on gimmickry. That said, some of the "Hawkeye" style views give a good insight into incidents. Thompson herself adds nothing of value to any programme she's ever been on, and to be honest it jars a little that they've given the F1 gig to someone still serving a ban for drink-driving.



Overall then

BBC 5 Sky 4 - A very close call!

What does everybody else think?

I think you've pretty much nailed it except that I'd put the scores the other way round with Sky marginally ahead of the BBC.

[wedge]

Depending how fussy you are over sound/picture quality then BBC wins it on presentation alone.

I'm surprised how awful Natalie Pinkham is because she was solid on 5Live as pit reporter. She's become more Beverly Turner than Louise Goodman - at Sky's behest it seems.

DC feels too gangly and awkward during the grid walks especially as he struggles for ad hoc interviews. Brundle was the uber professional: time to scrape the barrel with the likes of D-list celebs to fill time.

[AndyL]

PS: I also think this forum is a lot quieter than is used to be and I think this deal has gasd a lot to do with that. Posters like 'Sonic' have walked away from F1 and haven't been seen for nearly a year now and most of the threads are made up of 5 or 6 posters when they used to up to 20 posters debating at once. Just an observation.

I think the split from motorsport.com has also made a difference to the level of forum activity.

[christophulus]

I haven't watched a minute of the Sky coverage this year, and haven't really felt like I've missed out. I think that says it all, 9-0 to the BBC in my eyes!

[rjbetty]

Yeah I agree about Lee MacKenzie. There's something about the way she DOESN'T flirt that makes her classy. She also doesn't overcompensate and become too anal and serious (like I feel Karren Brady on the Apprentice does a little bit, incidentally, but anyway...)
- in short she is perfect, so much respect to her. And yes, she does also happen to be very attractive. The fact she doesn't seem to "know" this or use it in any way is very worthy of respect.

Jake is just brilliant - very talented and makes it look easy. Whatever curve-ball situation is thrown at him, he always handles it naturally and brilliantly. I didn't really know who he was before seeing him on F1, but I hear that maybe he was maybe trying to overcompensate in the beginning to lose the tag of kids presenter (i.e. not serious enough). I think he's just fine as he is.

DC has done very well and for me shows improvement all the time. He does just fine in the commentary box and I don't feel he's out of place at all. Yeah I admit the grid walks are maybe a little more awkward than Brundle's (I've only seen one!) but this can come. All in all, if someone had told me 10 years ago that Coulthard would be doing a central commentary and pundit role, and be doing so very competently, I would have been shocked, for during his McLaren days, he always seemed very uptight, wooden and monotonous.

I now blame much of this on Ron Dennis and his neurotic ways, cos when David moved to Red Bull, he seemed to become a new man and loosened up brilliantly.

I like EJ, especially when he questions team bosses, especially Christian Horner. It's always a laugh. OMGosh when he suggested to Christian Horner he was being insincere when he congratulated Mark Webber for winning Silverstone 2010, that was a priceless moment. The sad thing is, I never SAW that... :(

[Zico]

Usually watch it on Sky but have watched a couple of races on the Beeb. I've thoroughly enjoyed both and found them pretty closely matched with Sky maybe just edging it thanks to Brundles excellent input.

[BDunnell]

Davidson, along with McNish and Chandhok, represents a dedicedly average F1 driver judging much better drivers.

This is the only point with which I'd take issue. It's very unlikely that a broadcaster is going to find a really good F1 driver who can broadcast well. I don't think it matters a jot — after all, I don't have a problem with you or anyone else judging the abilities of the respective Sky and BBC broadcasters without being a broadcaster yourself.

[DexDexter]

I've watched quite of lot of Sky coverage this year (don't ask me how) and the thing that strikes me is that Johnny Herbert and Damon Hill really have nothing to say. They seem to search for words all the time and don't bring anything to the broadcasts.

[BDunnell]

I've watched quite of lot of Sky coverage this year (don't ask me how) and the thing that strikes me is that Johnny Herbert and Damon Hill really have nothing to say. They seem to search for words all the time and don't bring anything to the broadcasts.

I haven't seen Sky's coverage at all yet, but it does surprise me how anyone could think of Johnny Herbert as a broadcaster. It was the same with Mark Blundell. Hill's apparent lack of success in his role surprises me far more.

[steveaki13]

I have only watched Sky this year. As I am a big fan of Martin Brundle and enjoyed his efforts on ITV and BBC, and wanted to follow him and their full coverage.

That said I do think its pretty even. I have watched Sky this year but am not bias one way or the other, beacuse ultimately I would have prefered F1 on BBC only like last year.

-Pre & Post Race = BBC hands down if its anything like last years anyway. 1-0 Beeb

- Race coverage generally = Sky. Like Croft and Brundle. 1-1

-Humphrey v Lazenby = Jake hands down. He is a natural. 2-1 Beeb.

-Hill & Hebert v EJ & DC = BBC. Haven't seen DC & EJ this year and despite liking Hill & Herbert the Beeb is better here. 3-1 Beeb

-Croft v Edwards = A tie. For me I haven't heard Ben this time, but did last time round and its very close. Beeb 3.5-1.5

-Brundle v DC = Sky. Brundle has a better way of reading and presenting F1. His gridwalks are legendry and he is naturally funny. Beeb 3.5-2.5

-Ted v Gary = Another tie. Gary clearly is superior in tech knowledge, but Ted knows strategy and is slightly more natural. Beeb 4-3

-McKenzie v Pinkham = BBC. Lee is just better. Beeb 5-3.

-F1 extras = Sky. The whole channel allows great old races, although they could still do more. Leave live feed running between sessions. BBC 5-4

Similar to alot of people. I just give it to BBC. However I will go on watching Sky. (Until the day they start putting ads back in(Can't be long))

[BDunnell]

On the subject of Ben Edwards, here, just for the hell of it, is some footage of him competing in Formula First in 1987. Some other familiar names here too, and a splendid roll-neck sweater and striped blazer combo on the estimable Chris Goffey.

BBC top gear classic last episode from 1987 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrIJLTSr3x8)

[Jinny Holmes]

Sky Sports have a free weekend and we are watching it but would watch BBC everytime. Thought it very amusing when the BBC cameras zoomed into the Sky team at Monaco and JH apologised (very insincerely). We need information and not personalities while watching Formula 1 and Gary Anderson is wonderful at all things technical and I believe it should be 9-0 to the BBC as well.

[steveaki13]

I don't agree with the bolded part at all. Gary is far superior calling strategy and the fact he's got it spot on on numerous ocassions puts Ted in the shade IMO. Ted is better at presenting than Gary and puts himself across alot better I think.


Having watched the highlights today on the Beeb I have to lift my hat to them. It was so well put together I didn't notice it was highlights at all, and I felt I had watched the entire race. The race itself was pretty damn dull in terms of action but I enjoyed the coverage all the same.

One plus point of the highlights is the quick build up. No fuss, no fillers, just a few interviews and straight to the race. Its meant I have not spend my entire afternoon infront of the TV and for once I have enjoyed what has been offered.

You don't agree with me about Ted. Fair point and the radio on BBC I have heard Gary is great. :)

I must say I don't agree about the race. The first half was full of battling and passing. The second half was more static, but the epic racing by those top 3 was great.
I enjoyed it very much. :)

[steveaki13]

I think we were robbed of the battle between Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton after Lewis picked up that puncture. I suppose I lost interest with alot of the race after that and was in and out of the room. I feel you need to be interested to enjoy it and it was over for me on lap 2 pretty much. The coverage was excellent though and can't fault that. :)

Only Hamilton was out of the running. Doesn't matter whos racing that hard. It is still great F1.

I like Hamilton and Button and most other drivers.

I just love to see F1 competative. And for me this was one of the better races this season.

[wedge]

I've watched quite of lot of Sky coverage this year (don't ask me how) and the thing that strikes me is that Johnny Herbert and Damon Hill really have nothing to say. They seem to search for words all the time and don't bring anything to the broadcasts.

Johnny Herbert is pretty good. Brings the all important enthusiasm to punditry.

Damon Hill is like a well spoken Mark Blundell. Doesn't really add much.


This is the only point with which I'd take issue. It's very unlikely that a broadcaster is going to find a really good F1 driver who can broadcast well. I don't think it matters a jot — after all, I don't have a problem with you or anyone else judging the abilities of the respective Sky and BBC broadcasters without being a broadcaster yourself.

Firstly, who can not warm to Chandok? June's audio podcast with Karun Chandhok - Formula 1 - Motor Sport Magazine (http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/july-audio-podcast/)

Do you need a glittering CV to be great a analyst? In football some of the great coaches/managers were average footballer.

Plenty of average drivers have become terrific commentators such as: Charley Cox - nobody driver to commentating legend; Neil Crompton - average Touring Car driver but made a name of himself as the authoritative voice of Aussie Touring Cars/V8s; Sam Posey in America who initially impart wisdom on Indycar and went on to be picked up for the Tour De France and Olympics coverage.

The key is having punditry and broadcasting skills.

[BDunnell]

Firstly, who can not warm to Chandok? June's audio podcast with Karun Chandhok - Formula 1 - Motor Sport Magazine (http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/july-audio-podcast/)

Do you need a glittering CV to be great a analyst? In football some of the great coaches/managers were average footballer.

Plenty of average drivers have become terrific commentators such as: Charley Cox - nobody driver to commentating legend; Neil Crompton - average Touring Car driver but made a name of himself as the authoritative voice of Aussie Touring Cars/V8s; Sam Posey in America who initially impart wisdom on Indycar and went on to be picked up for the Tour De France and Olympics coverage.

The key is having punditry and broadcasting skills.

Completely agree. I thought of this again while watching the Open golf today, and being subjected to the entry of Nick Faldo into the BBC's line-up of commentators and pundits. None of the ex-players amongst them can match Faldo's achievements as a player; all are enormously superior broadcasters.

[Mark]

Having watched the highlights today on the Beeb I have to lift my hat to them. It was so well put together I didn't notice it was highlights at all, and I felt I had watched the entire race. The race itself was pretty damn dull in terms of action but I enjoyed the coverage all the same.

One plus point of the highlights is the quick build up. No fuss, no fillers, just a few interviews and straight to the race. Its meant I have not spend my entire afternoon infront of the TV and for once I have enjoyed what has been offered.

You know, I agree. I was actually watching the race live on Sky, but switched it off and went to the shops, when I got back I watched the highlights on the BBC. Sunday afternoons are too precious now to spend them in front of the TV :)

[AndyL]

You know, I agree. I was actually watching the race live on Sky, but switched it off and went to the shops, when I got back I watched the highlights on the BBC. Sunday afternoons are too precious now to spend them in front of the TV :)

I'd rather spend Sunday afternoon watching racing than traipsing round the shops! ;)

[The Black Knight]

BBC are much better by a country mile. The McLaren animation was the best thing about Sky coverage yesterday. I get bored watching the Sky coverage. That never happened with the Beebs.

[Mark]

I'd rather spend Sunday afternoon watching racing than traipsing round the shops! ;)

Perhaps, but that's a bad example I guess. F1 is for when the weather outside is rubbish - which to be fair is most of the time this year.

[steveaki13]

I'd rather spend Sunday afternoon watching racing than traipsing round the shops! ;)


This.

The weekend is for watching, playing and enjoying sport and hobbies. Which for me include following F1.

How can you prefer going shopping. :p : :eek: :crazy:

Mark are you sure its not the other half that thinks Sunday afternoons are better spent in the shops ;)

[steveaki13]

Are you single by any chance aki13? :p


You got it.

I suppose Its enjoy it now while I can. :D

[Mark]

It was me that suggested we go to the shops! I think partly that I wasn't feeling too good and the race was sending me to sleep!

[Dave B]

I'm very lucky that my missus is an F1 fan! We had a friend round and watched the race with a Sunday roast while the boy (mostly) slept - best of all words!

[MrJan]

Brundle vs Coulthard. Sky > BBC. Brundle makes me watch the Sky coverage during the race, he is still fantastic at his job. DC isn’t bad, but he just isn’t quick enough to read a race like Brundle does, with his dry wit along the way.


I really miss Brundle, shame that Sky couldn't have had EJ instead, but feel it's perhaps a tad unfair comparing him with DC, afterall Brundle has been doing this job for nearly 15 years more than Coulthard. I know what you mean about the wit but think that the polish will come to DC, like it did with MB (Martin wasn't always such a great choice). I must admit that I'm amazed that I'm defending DC, I never thought he'd be particularly good on the TV but he's a huge asset to the BBC.

[AndyL]

shame that Sky couldn't have had EJ instead

Probably just as well they didn't... can you imagine Simon Lazenby trying to keep control of EJ, he'd have a breakdown :) That's where Jake Humphrey's kids' TV experience comes in handy I guess!

[steveaki13]

A lot of people do think Jake came from kids tv to sports presenting when in reality he had experience covering sports before the kids route. Just saying as I often read on forums that he is just an ex kids tv presenter. :)

Where ever he started he is now one of the best broadcasters around. He is so natural and relaxed in front of the camera.

The BBC have a gem in him, whether it be F1, Football or other presenting Sport or non sport.

While they have him BBC will still top the F1 coverage.

[donKey jote]

fairweather fans :rolleyes: :p

[donKey jote]

sure it does... unless you find a simple way to play back the live timing too :)

[Mark]

Indeed. On a glorious day as today it's madness to stay inside. Get out and do things! Even if it is sitting outside at the pub!

[donKey jote]

Just don't forget your laptop/tab/ultrasmartphone ! :p

[tfp]

I have been called in to work today :mad:

&£!#%*¥***€!!!!!

Can you listen to the race on the radio? Or have sky stopped that aswel? Is there any way i can follow the race on the move?

Any help would be much appreciated! Needless to say i am very ?$¥**$€*#% off!!!

[steveaki13]

Radio 5 live still covers the F1 races

although they have updates from other things in between

[wedge]

Georgie Thompson enjoys being eye candy! :D

[steveaki13]

That's great if you enjoy using live timing. Not really my bag :)

Couldn't agree more.

I have tried timing and driver tracker in the past, but found myself actually only watching the action about 15 minutes of each race.

I now just like to use the on screen graphics. Thats all I need. Its how I have found F1 fine all these years.

[donKey jote]

it's simply not the same experience for me without live chat(s) and live timing :)

[donKey jote]

Highlights were good today. Good banter between the BBC guys too, most enjoyable.

yep :D :andrea:

[donKey jote]

I get everything I need from just watching the race.
You're fairly spoilt with the BBC in that their coverage is great and as a bonus you're mainly a fan of the Engish drivers.
I get everything I need from watching three races (the same race with 3 different slants - Spanish, German and English), plus live timing :)

[steveaki13]

You're fairly spoilt with the BBC in that their coverage is great and as a bonus you're mainly a fan of the Engish drivers.
I get everything I need from watching three races (the same race with 3 different slants - Spanish, German and English), plus live timing :)

Thats why you are better informed than me Donkey. :p :

The timings are great and like a look through some in practice and afterwards. I just find i can't multi task enough to keep track of everything if I watch to many screens. :o

[donKey jote]

Watching is easy compared to listening to too many feeds, plus the missus in the background :p

[DexDexter]

That pitlane guy on Sky is so out of it. Today he revealed that Räikkönen was one a one stopper about four laps from the finish, and that's just one of many stupid comments.

[steveaki13]

That pitlane guy on Sky is so out of it. Today he revealed that Räikkönen was one a one stopper about four laps from the finish, and that's just one of many stupid comments.

I normally like Ted, but yes the last couple of races he seems to have forgotten anything about F1. Very strange

[ArrowsFA1]

That pitlane guy on Sky is so out of it. Today he revealed that Räikkönen was one a one stopper about four laps from the finish, and that's just one of many stupid comments.
He also, seemingly, failed to recognise former Ferrari F1 driver Arturo Merzario.

[wedge]

That pitlane guy on Sky is so out of it. Today he revealed that Räikkönen was one a one stopper about four laps from the finish, and that's just one of many stupid comments.

IIRC he was questioning the one stopper because Schumi was about a second a lap quicker.

[acescribe]

The BBC will have a new, or different anchor from next year.

Jake Humphrey to leave BBC coverage at end of 2012 season | Formula 1 | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN F1 (http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/89088.html)

[ShiftingGears]

I think Brundle is the best commentator F1 has had, so I've been quite pleased that our local TV station broadcasts the Sky feed. Croft has been not as good as I was hoping, but still, I think it makes the best commentary team since I've been watching.

[Mark]

The BBC will have a new, or different anchor from next year.

Jake Humphrey to leave BBC coverage at end of 2012 season | Formula 1 | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN F1 (http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/89088.html)

That's a great shame. Jake has been the best thing about the BBC coverage since it started. Yet another lured away by football - where he'll get much less exposure - but I suppose much more money!

[wedge]

He had his own style, made F1 that was engaging with the casual and hardcore fans alike.

He has left a legacy.

Everytime I watch Sky's coverage I can't help but think: Lazenby STFU and stop trying to be like Jake.

[Mark]

Jake, DC, and Eddie Jordan, similar to, Clarkson, Hammond & May.

[Sarah]

Norfolk (http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/norfolk_s_jake_humphrey_to_leave_bbc_and_anchor_bt _s_coverage_of_premier_league_football_1_1520450)


Not surprised that Jake has moved to do more football, think it was probably always his wish and that would be difficult to get at BBC - also with the news he is to become a father it seemed more likely

[wedge]

Jake, DC, and Eddie Jordan, similar to, Clarkson, Hammond & May.

Is it a bad thing? Did they dumb down F1?

[Mark]

Is it a bad thing? Did they dumb down F1?

No; it's a good thing. It works on Top Gear the same as it works on F1.

[ArrowsFA1]

It's a shame Jake is departing the BBC's F1 coverage. I was dubious when I heard he was going to be the anchor but he has done a superb job.

[BDunnell]

Jake, DC, and Eddie Jordan, similar to, Clarkson, Hammond & May.

No, the former three are nowhere near as appalling as the latter three.

[steveaki13]

Its a shame as others have said, but he needs to do it for his familys sake.

Good Luck Jake

[AndyL]

Just watching the Sky post-race for the Japanese GP... they came back from the McLaren cartoon to some footage of Vettel, with Simon Lazenby's voice over the top saying "What am I doing here?"
Yes Simon, good question :D

[acescribe]

Just watching the Sky post-race for the Japanese GP... they came back from the McLaren cartoon to some footage of Vettel, with Simon Lazenby's voice over the top saying "What am I doing here?"
Yes Simon, good question :D

Exactly. I thought the same!

[wedge]

What is amazing is that you watch any race from Sky and its like Crofty and Brundle are a veteran partnership unlike a couple of Brundle's partnerships.

[steveaki13]

Wow. Sky must be struggling.

After all they have dug up Mark Blundell from somewhere "at this point"

[donKey jote]

Didn't find them that special this time, but then I don't have sky to compare :)

[MAX_THRUST]

Sky commentary is very sluggish. Ben Edwards on the BBC has got much more steam, Sky's team have run out of steam.

[donKey jote]

^yep
The missus wondered why she had to tape the Spanish coverage when I then go and watch the BBC first :p

[acescribe]

James Allen quoted on twitter saying that the BBC's Indian GP highlights drew in 3.1 million at peak, compared to 5.5 million when the race was live in 2011. That is a significant drop.

[Mark]

You can't always compare because different season different outlook.

[Mark]

Agreed, the coverage hasn't been improved, it's been diluted.

[IceWizard]

Its even more alarming when the Sky figures are analysed. Viewing figures with both channels combined is down on last year with Sky really struggling to pull in the viewers. Its laughable when you consider the selling point of this deal was to make the sport more widely available for fans. If you live in the UK and own a TV you can get BBC 1. Slashing the coverage and placing some of it on a satellite channel was always going to have an effect like this and this deal is only good for the fans who have full access. Those that don't are just told how great it is and expected to shut up. It doesn't work like that thankfully.
The selling point was to make the sport more widely available to fans. Really? I thought the whole point of the deal was to allow the BBC to save money while increasing overall revenue for F1? Another Bernie masterstroke.... not that it's his fault that the BBC decided they didn't want to continue with their existing deal.

[The Black Knight]

The selling point was to make the sport more widely available to fans. Really? I thought the whole point of the deal was to allow the BBC to save money while increasing overall revenue for F1? Another Bernie masterstroke.... not that it's his fault that the BBC decided they didn't want to continue with their existing deal.

I don't know the terms of the contract but I think they should have been made stick to what they agreed. Doesn't appear like that has happened however.

I don't mind the Sky coverage but the BBC coverage last year was vastly superior, in my opinion. The best thing about Sky coverage is the red button.

[wedge]

but it was supported by claiming it would reach more fans as a result.

That was Bernie's spin on the whole deal - which he doesn't get much out of considering that both Sky and Channel 4 had bid near enough the same money and the Beeb colluding with Sky to keep their free-to-air rights.

Sky can't be to blame. They offer a premuim subscription service and have done their bit by tempting viewers.

We wouldn't be in this situation if the Beeb were willing to compromise their portfolio.

[Mark]

It's confusing for the viewer as you don't know one race to the next. Is this one going to be live on BBC or is this a Sky only one.

[steveaki13]

It's confusing for the viewer as you don't know one race to the next. Is this one going to be live on BBC or is this a Sky only one.

I luckily already had Sky Sports and so got F1 without thinking and watch every race here for sheer ease, rather than working out the different arrangements for each weekend like you say.

Agree all round though it would be better if F1 stayed set like last year on BBC 1 every week.

[The Black Knight]

Do sky F1 viewers like yourself miss watching it on the BBC at all? I prefer the format and even if I could be bothered to tune in on Sky, it (bbc) would always be my first choice if it was available. Then again all the races are on the BBC now, just some of them have a few laps missing and are televised a few hours late.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The in race commentary from Sky is quite good. I mostly miss the off track stuff like Eddie Jordan and Jake Humphrey. I was always pretty indifferent towards Coulthard. I always switch to the Beebs for pre and post race coverage. Sky takes the race mainly because of that superb Red button.

[steveaki13]

Dont get me wrong, I would be delighted if BBC kept all live coverage the way it was last year, but I am a fan of Brundle and like the commentary of Sky as a constant. Overall I dont watch much coverage of anything off track so that doesn't affect me much.

[Mark]

Do sky F1 viewers like yourself miss watching it on the BBC at all? I prefer the format and even if I could be bothered to tune in on Sky, it (bbc) would always be my first choice if it was available. Then again all the races are on the BBC now, just some of them have a few laps missing and are televised a few hours late.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, even though I can watch it on Sky I still always prefer the BBC if possible, even if that means waiting for the highlights.

There is also the issue that BBC is at the top of the EPG, whereas Sky is pretty much hidden away so it's hard to know if a race is on.

I do think the BBC coverage will be quite a lot worse next year as Jake is gone.

[wedge]

The ideal situation in all this would have been for Bernie and the Beeb to reach an agreement to maybe reduce the fee as the sport would still be available to the wider audience base. We would still have the dream team we saw last year and the coverage would be great for everybody. Money is involved however and the Sport would rather have the instant cash than the potential viewers it seems. I agree Sky can't be blamed for this and its totally the powers that be and the BBC. Time will tell how damaging this has been to the popularity of the sport in the UK with viewing figures already giving us an early insight into this.

It's a free market, Bernie needs to make a return on behalf of CVC so he isn't one for charity unless it's the only option.

In this case the best opportunities for Bernie and the fans was to have Channel 4 share the rights.

[Malbec]

There is also the issue that BBC is at the top of the EPG, whereas Sky is pretty much hidden away so it's hard to know if a race is on.


That for me is the biggest factor in choosing between the two! Then I remember BBC one isn't HD so I have to carry on digging.

I only watch the race and may or may not watch the pre/post-race shows depending on how busy I am and how good the race was. I have to say I don't really see a big difference in the race coverage, DC is close to Brundle standards.

Eddie Jordan does annoy me though for the sheer volume of trash he talks, and occasionally the BBC crew seem to get it very wrong, as in Abu Dhabi where they seemed to be spending an awfully long time discussing Grosjean's driving and how it caused the accident late on in the race. None of them seemed to notice the accident was initiated by Perez which was poor.

[Somebody]

In this case the best opportunities for Bernie and the fans was to have Channel 4 share the rights.

C4 would have needed 15 minutes of in-race as to balance the books. That's quite a lot more than ITV had when they had the rights.

What's really to blame for this mess are the Tories. If they hadn't "frozen" [real-terms cut] the licence fee and made the BBC pay for S4C and the World Service out of the licence fee on top of that, the BBC would have had the money to keep going as they were.

[AndyL]

What's really to blame for this mess are the Tories. If they hadn't "frozen" [real-terms cut] the licence fee and made the BBC pay for S4C and the World Service out of the licence fee on top of that, the BBC would have had the money to keep going as they were.

Probably a bigger factor was blowing the thick end of a billion quid on relocating to Manchester, which was instigated by the previous regime.

[Dave B]

Do sky F1 viewers like yourself miss watching it on the BBC at all? I prefer the format and even if I could be bothered to tune in on Sky, it (bbc) would always be my first choice if it was available. Then again all the races are on the BBC now, just some of them have a few laps missing and are televised a few hours late.
I tend to flip between the channels for the build-up as both have their fair share of waffle and filler, but for the races I default to Sky as I slightly prefer the commentary team. More often than not I watch the BBC highlights later.

[Dave B]

Probably a bigger factor was blowing the thick end of a billion quid on relocating to Manchester, which was instigated by the previous regime.
Most of which will pay for itself: if they'd stayed in London they'd have practically had to rebuild TV Centre. The place is falling apart and riddled with asbestos and 70's wiring. Indeed they've already said that their Olympic coverage would have been technically impossible from the old facilities.

[Dave B]

I wonder if Sky will ever consider offering the F1 channel at a reasonable price as a bolt on for freeview viewers in the future?
Highly unlikely. There's a very finite amount of bandwidth on Freeview and it would be wasteful to have a channel which most people would only be interested in for 4 hours per fortnight. A more likely scenario is making races available online on a PPV basis, but AFAIK they don't currently have the rights for this.

PS have you seen the latest updates to the Sky EPG? They've added a far better catch-up section including iPlayer, which doesn't even need a subscription, and pretty much duplicates everything YouView does. The software is still painfully slow, I'll grant you, because the boxes have less memory than a goldfish, but the functionality is excellent now.

[Dave B]

The bandwidth is there to do it.
Doesn't YouView have a permanent internet connection? In which case the bandwidth becomes irrelevant, it could support millions of channels. Freeview as delivered over the air only has a very limited capacity (hence the dire picture quality on most channels), and couldn't justify the F1 channel.

[Somebody]

Probably a bigger factor was blowing the thick end of a billion quid on relocating to Manchester, which was instigated by the previous regime.
Most of which will pay for itself: if they'd stayed in London they'd have practically had to rebuild TV Centre. The place is falling apart and riddled with asbestos and 70's wiring. Indeed they've already said that their Olympic coverage would have been technically impossible from the old facilities.
Exactly.

Whereas, over the course of the "frozen" licence fee settlement, they'll lose fully a QUARTER of their income to inflation and the extra stuff it needs to pay for now (S4C, BBC World Service, BBC Monitoring, etc). That's more like a billion PER YEAR in lost income and extra expenditure by 2017.

[Mark]

True. However the freeze was necessary. The likes of the BBC cannot keep asking for more and more money and expect us just to pay up. I haven't had a wage rise for a long time either.

[Dave B]

True. However the freeze was necessary. The likes of the BBC cannot keep asking for more and more money and expect us just to pay up. I haven't had a wage rise for a long time either.
I agree that a freeze was a good thing, after all the BBC has become bloated and has its fingers in far too many pies. Indeed - and I say this as a massive F1 fan - it shouldn't be paying huge money for the rights to successful mainstream sports like F1 and football when commercial broadcasters are willing and able to screen then. But as somebody says, once you combine this freeze with the extra demands placed upon them by the coalition the BBC's position becomes very difficult indeed.

[Dave B]

Its only its playback channels/programs that rely on an internet connection. It doesn't stream all its content from the internet and functions like a freeview box for live content. You can record live and it has HD channels too. The picture quality is not HD when watching programs from the last 7 days but the image quality isn't dire at all.
That's my point: as a catchup device it functions much as a PC would, grabbing the streams from iPlayer, 4OD and so on. Therefore the number of channels is practically unlimited (and their picture quality only limited by the broadcaster's source material and your internet speed - can it really not access HD VOD?). Sky could easily launch an online channel which the YouView boxes and any other device could access, the only barrier being the rights to do so.

But for live broadcast it relies on the Freeview terrestrial transmitters, which can only support a finite number of channels (hence my comment about the dire PQ on many, but not all, of the channels as they're compressed like crazy to fit the limited spectrum) - and which is why I don't believe they'll ever devote such scare resource to a channel which would struggle for viewers outside of race weekends.

[MAX_THRUST]

Sky commentary is rubbish, should have waited and watched the race on the BBC later. Probably will anyway....I'm so glad I am not paying for SKY as it is terrible...

[BDunnell]

I agree that a freeze was a good thing, after all the BBC has become bloated and has its fingers in far too many pies. Indeed - and I say this as a massive F1 fan - it shouldn't be paying huge money for the rights to successful mainstream sports like F1 and football when commercial broadcasters are willing and able to screen then. But as somebody says, once you combine this freeze with the extra demands placed upon them by the coalition the BBC's position becomes very difficult indeed.

I tend to agree with the view that it shouldn't be paying huge amounts for sports rights at such a time, but, equally, the reaction to the BBC losing what remains of its sports coverage would be such as to cause a different backlash. As with almost everything the BBC does, it seems, it's damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. And, in any case, there are so many other savings the BBC could make.

[BDunnell]

Loved Vettel shunning Sky in favour of the BBC with David Coulthard. 'Yeah but we are live' Brundle said desperately. The thing is they are both filming live and the Beeb reach more people.

Dear oh dear, that is truly desperate.

The latter point is well made. Many sports need the BBC perhaps more than the BBC needs them. Snooker is one example. If Eurosport was available on UK Freeview just as it is in most mainland European countries, this would be different.

[christophulus]

I watched the Sky build up for the first time today round at the parents' house. It was terminally dull, and hour and a half of adverts and boring interviews and tedious "analysis". The whole channel seems to be repeat after repeat as if they don't really know how to fill a full schedule.

I'm now back home listening to Radio Five Live and enjoying it much more. No thanks, Sky, you've not sold it to me.

[JasonPotato]

Yeh i always turn it on 10mins before the race as i know i will miss or the boring pre-race hype

[Mark]

Agreed. Sky is far too formal. The BBC have it right or at least they did it's gone downhill this year too.

[BDunnell]

Agreed. Sky is far too formal. The BBC have it right or at least they did it's gone downhill this year too.

Each to their own. I have completely gone off Jake Humphrey, for the reason that I think he's far too 'matey'. He was terrible during the Olympics, too — completely out of his depth compared with seasoned sports presenters like Hazel Irvine and Clare Balding. Personally, I'm glad he won't feature on the F1 coverage beyond this season.

[JasonPotato]

Each to their own. I have completely gone off Jake Humphrey, for the reason that I think he's far too 'matey'. He was terrible during the Olympics, too — completely out of his depth compared with seasoned sports presenters like Hazel Irvine and Clare Balding. Personally, I'm glad he won't feature on the F1 coverage beyond this season.

Exactly my feeling too plus the fact he never puts that damn ipad down!

[BDunnell]

Jake will be a major loss. He's a great presenter and provides a very inviting experience to the viewer IMO.

Maybe to others, but not to this one.

[Dave B]

Jake is still head and shoulders above Simon Lazenby, but I agree that his style has become a bit "Hammond" - too eager to please, and too desperate to appear like everybody's mate.

I'm increasingly disappointed with Sky's pre-race coverage as it's riddled with filler, but when it counts - during the race - I still think they have the edge on the BBC, and their interactive options are the icing on the cake. Post-race they totally kick bottom for Ted's notebook alone.

It's very close, but Sky just about pip the Beeb for me. YMMV.

[christophulus]

Jake is still head and shoulders above Simon Lazenby, but I agree that his style has become a bit "Hammond" - too eager to please, and too desperate to appear like everybody's mate.


I think that's his USP though, most of the drivers and team members seem to love chatting to him so I'm not surprised he plays on that.

One thing I did notice is how much better Sky HD is compared to BBC HD. Picture quality is outstanding. I did think David Croft was going to hyperventilate and pass out on the first lap though.

[Dave B]

One thing I did notice is how much better Sky HD is compared to BBC HD. Picture quality is outstanding. I did think David Croft was going to hyperventilate and pass out on the first lap though.
The Beeb did seem to improve their picture quality for the Olympics (odd, as they keep saying there's nothing wrong with it) but it's gone back to "normal" now. They use 1440px wide rather than 1920, and some extremely odd compression algorithms, on their HD channels. Sky just chuck money at their bandwith like it's going out of fashion, and the difference is clear.

Anyway, never mind the pictures, the Sky sound quality is something else. The BBC, for all their resources and experience, just don't seem able to produce a proper 5.1 feed.

[gloomyDAY]

Here is the video of Brundle acting like a complete knob. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeCQZPsJ1vk)

[Dave B]

Here is the video of Brundle acting like a complete knob. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeCQZPsJ1vk)
I must admit Brundle's gridwalks are becoming a joke. Hardly anybody seems to want to talk to him, and he's often reduced to grabbing random celebrity faces.

[AndyL]

I must admit Brundle's gridwalks are becoming a joke. Hardly anybody seems to want to talk to him, and he's often reduced to grabbing random celebrity faces.

He's always done that thought hasn't he. The "let's see whether this person speaks English" moment has been a feature of the grid walks since the beginning. A lot more drivers seem willing to talk on the grid now compared to say 10 years ago.

[steveaki13]

"A Marties random Person" as it used to be known.

[Mark]

Sky may think they can but-in because they are exclusively live, but they need to remember that the footage the BBC are recording for their highlights also has a need to be recorded live.

More to the point I believe the BBC are live in other countries.

[Dave B]

Very true. As annoying as that is to license payers they do transmit their commentary to other countries live.
Those other countries pay the BBC for their broadcasts, so it actually helps us licence fee payers. :)

[wedge]

He's always done that thought hasn't he. The "let's see whether this person speaks English" moment has been a feature of the grid walks since the beginning. A lot more drivers seem willing to talk on the grid now compared to say 10 years ago.

Very true.

Car crash telly. Usually cringeworth like ending up with interviewing Geri Halliwell at what seems every Monco GP.

Respect to MB to put himself in that situation.

DC is out of his depth, like a fish out of water. He leaves me cold. The limits to his TV work is punditry. Not a natural for live TV as a whole.

Heard a bit of James Allen yesterday and he was doing his shouty thing again.

[wedge]

Not being a connoisseur of live presenting myself, I do enjoy the unpredictability of Coulthard in front of the camera. Approaching people on the grid as the average person would rather than a scripted professional looking to please his employers.

You don't have to be connoissuer. Some people are good in front of a camera, some aren't.

DC just comes across as amatuerish when he's looking for someone to interview. Brundle came off as a natural. He relishes his role and willing to scrape the barrel.

[SGWilko]

You don't have to be connoissuer. Some people are good in front of a camera, some aren't.

DC just comes across as amatuerish when he's looking for someone to interview. Brundle came off as a natural. He relishes his role and willing to scrape the barrel.

Pikeys scrape the bottom of barrels - that's nothing to aspire to.....

[Mark]

Jake just said that the whole 2013 season will be live on BBC?

[steveaki13]

That would be sweet if it was true????

Maybe Bernie wants the viewing figures back

[Dave B]

Well Sky have just said they'll be "the only place to see all the races live" (their emphasis), so I guess the word "see" is the operative one.

I've got the BBC coverage in the planner for later when my pulse has calmed down a bit!

[BDunnell]

Well, all the races were live on the BBC this year — just not on the TV.

[donKey jote]

^ indeed :andrea:

[BDunnell]

I did make reference to radio above. I haven't listened on 5Live once this year as I can't stand James Allen so that doesn't really count for me. I also can't see the point in listening to a race when you can catch it a couple of hours later and see the action. Its all an anti climax listening to something so visual.

I didn't think James Allen was too bad on 5 Live when I heard him. However, I now have great difficulty in listening to races as I can no longer visualise the circuits. Time was when I could, and it wasn't a problem. However, with the exceptions of those tracks that have gone substantially unaltered, this is no longer the case.

[Knock-on]

Not being a connoisseur of live presenting myself, I do enjoy the unpredictability of Coulthard in front of the camera. Approaching people on the grid as the average person would rather than a scripted professional looking to please his employers.

What people don't realise about DC is that he's a very straightforward, down to earth person that that is happy talking to anyone. You could drop him into a war zone and he's just start chatting to people. A genuinly nice man.

[gloomyDAY]

BBC > Sky

I do not like Sky Sports. I usually can't watch races live because of my time zone, so I just download footage from the BBC or Sky. I'll tell ya, I'd rather wait a few more hours and download BBC's version of the race than get Sky. I just have more fun with the BBC trio pre-race, get plenty of analysis in a light-hearted but insightful manner, and I think their commentating during the race is great.

Sky's like watching 4 old dudes awkwardly hanging out in front of a F1 garage, and they just happen to be hosting a show. I cringe almost every time I see The Ferret (Damon Hill) open his mouth and try to conjure a sentence. Oh, and Georgie! That chick is really annoying. Is she pregnant? She kept getting fatter as the season progressed and dumber. Only a fetus can do such harm. Don't even get me started on Ant Davidson. That punk was so condescending throughout his analysis that it made me think that he was bitter no one wanted his slow butt in a F1 car.

BBC just makes Sky look ridiculous in the F1 paddock.

[acescribe]

Seems Sky had won over someone..

Sky Sports wins "Best TV Broadcast Award for Outstanding Coverage" after debut season of Sky Sports F1HD | Sky Sports (http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/12040/8317200/Sky-Sports-wins-Best-TV-Broadcast-Award-for-Outstanding-Coverage-after-debut-season-of-Sky-Sports-F1HD)

[Wasted Talent]

Well after hating not being able to see all the races live, made worse by BBC Radio stations giving the result before the "replay" was shown on TV, I subscribed to Sky, (as a previous subscriber I got free Sky+ box and installation plus 12 months at half price) :) :)

Now watch the FP sessions on Sky, along with Qualy and the race unless it is live on the BBC in which case I watch on BBC and record the Sky coverage to watch later. I usually only tune in 10 mins before the race as I'm not interested in their "features", and same when watching the recording.

Find not much to dislike in either live coverage but Sky slightly better as Eddie Jordan gives a great impression of not knowing anything about F1.

Will probably cancel my subscription at the end of the 2013 season and re-new March 2014 (dependant partly on how the Ashes are looking!)

WT

[IceWizard]

Seems Sky had won over someone..

Sky Sports wins "Best TV Broadcast Award for Outstanding Coverage" after debut season of Sky Sports F1HD | Sky Sports (http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/12040/8317200/Sky-Sports-wins-Best-TV-Broadcast-Award-for-Outstanding-Coverage-after-debut-season-of-Sky-Sports-F1HD)
Were they watching the same coverage as me? Sky coverage was fairly good but I don't rate it compared to the BBC. I always watched the BBC when I had to choice - a much better presenter and no Georgie Thompson.

[Wasted Talent]

What about when Suzi Perry leads the BBC coverage......

WT

[AndyL]

Were they watching the same coverage as me?

I expect the main thing they were watching was the FOM balance sheet.

[acescribe]

What about when Suzi Perry leads the BBC coverage......

WT

Not a definate yet.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/9728184/Suzi-Perry-tops-shortlist-of-three-to-front-BBCs-Formula-One-coverage-for-next-grand-prix-season.html

[Mark]

So that's why she's not on The Gadget Show then?

[tommy2k8]

I think this is the beginning of the end for the BBC, as they have lost Monaco live

[Mark]

I think this is the beginning of the end for the BBC, as they have lost Monaco live

Ouch. Bad for F1 in general, it seems to be on a suicide path in the UK :(

[SGWilko]

Ouch. Bad for F1 in general, it seems to be on a suicide path in the UK :(

While it is a glitz fest, is there ever a really 'great' race or racing at Monaco?

[Mark]

While it is a glitz fest, is there ever a really 'great' race or racing at Monaco?

Usually not, but that's not the point it's the marquee event. They just need to make sure they have the British Grand Prix. If they don't have that they might as well give up.

[SGWilko]

They just need to make sure they have the British Grand Prix. If they don't have that they might as well give up.

That I agree with 100%!

[Natalie.S]

I think this is the beginning of the end for the BBC, as they have lost Monaco live
Shows to me at least that BBC are not committed to F1 anymore
Last year BBC prided themselves that they would broadcast live British GP, F1's blue riband event Monaco and the last race, only to ditch Monaco at the earliest opportunity.

That and missing the first 2 races of the year live and in full is rather poor

[wedge]

I think this is the beginning of the end for the BBC, as they have lost Monaco live

Compromise.

They've gained Canada and dibs on the TBC summer race.

[Mark]

The only reason I got the F1 channel is that I was already thinking of upgrading my Sky box to the HD/1TB model anyway, so the F1 channel kind of sealed the deal. If I had to subscribe to Sky Sports then I would have found something else to do with my weekends.

[BDunnell]

I think the real issue here is why so little people have actually followed the sport on to the subscription channel?

I am not surprised at all, I must say. Viewing figures for football on Sky, for example, are pretty tiny, and in a wider sense take-up for pay-per-view or subscription TV services is still low.

[Mark]

Sky don't actually care how many people actually watch, more how many people have signed up as a result.

[Wasted Talent]

According to the figures I have just googled, Sky TV has 10.5m subscribers, and 4.05m watched the Manchester derby, and a peak of just over 1.0m watched the Spanish GP on Sky compared to 4.6m on BBC as they both broadcast the race live.

As I mentioned above, I will watch the race live on BBC if they are broadcasting it, but record Sky for watching later, but watch the post-race coverage on Sky. Maybe Suzi can convince me to stay with the BBC......

I do now watch a lot more sport on Sky, but will still see how things go in 2013 when my half-price deal runs out

WT

[wedge]

FOTA advocated the deal even Adam Parr was a huge advocate so in that sense I get the feeling are comfortable at sellimg this sort TV package to aevertisers as this TV package has become prevalent worldwide.

Regards to the EPL a lot of advertising around the grounds are aimed at East Asianot to mention that the coverage is also subscription based.

Regards to viewing numbers do they take into account of pubs showing football matches?

[Dave B]

Its all great having an extra £20m up front for the rights, but if so little people are watching then its going to eventually put off sponsors hoping to use the sport for their UK markets.

Us Europeans sadly have to face the fact that we're no longer the be-all and end-all of F1. Remember when it was basically a European series with the occasional foray to Australia, Japan and Brazil at the extreme ends of the season? That seems like only a few years ago - now it's aimed more at Middle- and Far-Eastern markets. As the global economy has shifted, so has the focus of F1, and I don't think we should get too worked up about what a few UK sponsors think.

With regard to the BBC, unless there's a drastic cultural shift along with a return to pre-Coalition funding levels, I expect them to drop F1 like a hot potato the moment their contract is up. This almost certainly means Sky showing all the races, and in turn that almost certainly means putting them behind a paywall. It may not be great for the viewers, but it's good for Sky's bank balance and it's good for CVC, so unfortunately that's all that matters.

[BDunnell]

Us Europeans sadly have to face the fact that we're no longer the be-all and end-all of F1. Remember when it was basically a European series with the occasional foray to Australia, Japan and Brazil at the extreme ends of the season? That seems like only a few years ago - now it's aimed more at Middle- and Far-Eastern markets. As the global economy has shifted, so has the focus of F1, and I don't think we should get too worked up about what a few UK sponsors think.

With regard to the BBC, unless there's a drastic cultural shift along with a return to pre-Coalition funding levels, I expect them to drop F1 like a hot potato the moment their contract is up. This almost certainly means Sky showing all the races, and in turn that almost certainly means putting them behind a paywall. It may not be great for the viewers, but it's good for Sky's bank balance and it's good for CVC, so unfortunately that's all that matters.

And the end result of all of this is, surely, a massive decline in the popularity of the sport in the UK. I can see the same happening to snooker when, as is surely (and very sadly) inevitable, the World Championship moves to China and thus is only shown, probably on a pay channel, at an inhospitable time of day.

[wedge]

With regard to the BBC, unless there's a drastic cultural shift along with a return to pre-Coalition funding levels, I expect them to drop F1 like a hot potato the moment their contract is up. This almost certainly means Sky showing all the races, and in turn that almost certainly means putting them behind a paywall. It may not be great for the viewers, but it's good for Sky's bank balance and it's good for CVC, so unfortunately that's all that matters.

There's an FTA clause for 'key markets' in the Concorde Agreement.

It would most probably mean Channel 4 or ITV if BBC dropped F1. But I think the BBC wants to keep F1 and their FTA card in their pocket as they wouldn't have directly negotiated with Sky otherwise negotations would be against a rival FTA channel ie. Ch4.

[Mark]

Indeed F1 shouldn't assume it's popularity is ensured, arrogance will kill you in the end. Look at how the interest in BTCC has dropped off a cliff since the highlights on the main channels stopped. Yes it has full live coverage on ITV4, but it's not convenient for most and a position well down the EPG is a problem.

[TMorel]

Well if F1 does disappear from TV, at least I've still got the WRC to watch...

[SGWilko]

Well if F1 does disappear from TV, at least I've still got the WRC to watch...

Womens Rambling Club???

[AndyRAC]

Well if F1 does disappear from TV, at least I've still got the WRC to watch...

I wouldn't be so sure..... ;)

[wedge]

Henners, your criticism is harsh on Sky.

Sky is an easy target as they hold iron grip on sports rights.

If I were to point fingers then it's indefinitely at the BBC for colluding with Sky as Sky bid was similar to £50m offered by Ch4.

BBC still have a competitive coverage an envious compared to similar FTA/Pay TV coverage. Thouh if BBC keep F1 then it won't be long when we join our continental counterparts

Hard to believe but we have to accept that live and FP content will/is premium service.

[BDunnell]

Hard to believe but we have to accept that live and FP content will/is premium service.

Why?

[SGWilko]

Well I'm lost then, and I'm gutted about that.

I can't compete with you guys who can afford to pay for it and I'm rather bitter about that.

Don't be bitter - certainly not. You are a better man because you have clearly set your priorities to cost/expenditure very much in the right direction.

[BDunnell]

Indeed and thanks, but F1 has been my passion for over 20 years and its looking like soon I'll only be able to follow it by reading stuff on the Internet. I get mocked for watching a sport nobody else follows but F1 is mine. It's difficult to accept and possibly say goodbye to when I've followed it for so long. It's frustrating to read how wonderful sky is and how lucky we are to have it when it's completely out of my reach and I'm afraid I will feel bitter about it. :(

But it hasn't happened yet, and it might still not. I believe free-to-air TV to be vital in any market of significance for any sport.

[Natalie.S]

But it hasn't happened yet, and it might still not. I believe free-to-air TV to be vital in any market of significance for any sport.
Oh there will still be FTA as that is important for the sponsors but it will mostly be highlights just like we now have with football.
Live sport will come at a premium and I'm not against paying a few tenners a month for quality sports broadcasts.

Sky did OK for the first year but must improve.
I like how we get for the first time in years proper coverage of the winter testing and the F1 show is also a nice addition.
Expected more from Brundle's features pre-race but that may have to do with teething problems.

BBC losing Monaco is a bad thing and so is them possibly only having 9 races live this year as the Tba race doesn't materialize.

[wedge]

Well I'm lost then, and I'm gutted about that.

I can't compete with you guys who can afford to pay for it and I'm rather bitter about that.

I don't have Sky nor cable. Track days have a higher priority for me.

I loathe the Murdoch empire. I wouldn't touch The Sun with a barge pole though admittedly I'm partial to having a peek at my sister's copy of The Sunday Times.

All very well moaning about Sky screwing the fans over when it was the BBC who screwed the fans over. The option was there to deal with Ch4 - whose bid was similar to Sky - and keep F1 FTA but no, the BBC would rather keep FTA rights as their own card and collude with Sky.

Formula One could have stayed on terrestrial TV but Channel 4 bid was snubbed - Mirror Online (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/formula-one-could-have-stayed-on-terrestrial-147213)

Revealed! Channel 4's last-ditch bid to keep Formula One on terrestrial TV - Mail Online - World of F1 with Phil Duncan (http://duncanblog.dailymail.co.uk/2011/08/revealed-channel-4s-last-ditch-bid-to-keep-formula-one-on-terrestrial-tv.html)


Why?

I don't like it either but have to accept the likelihood that it will happen in the UK.

That's how it is in some countries.

If BBC do keep F1 will it be of the same standard or will cost cutting come from the coverage?

Indeed there are sporting events like the Ryder Cup and Ashes that have a similar arrangement.

[BDunnell]

All very well moaning about Sky screwing the fans over when it was the BBC who screwed the fans over. The option was there to deal with Ch4 - whose bid was similar to Sky - and keep F1 FTA but no, the BBC would rather keep FTA rights as their own card and collude with Sky.

Yes, I agree completely.



I don't like it either but have to accept the likelihood that it will happen in the UK.

That's how it is in some countries.

Sorry to repeat my previous question, but why is this so?



If BBC do keep F1 will it be of the same standard or will cost cutting come from the coverage?

Indeed there are sporting events like the Ryder Cup and Ashes that have a similar arrangement.

There would certainly be cuts, you could be sure of that. How much, I wonder, could be saved by cutting all the red-button stuff, all the analysis, the presenter, and just showing a live race with two commentators and a pit lane reporter?

As for the last point, I wonder what the viewing figures for the Ryder Cup and Ashes highlights on terrestrial TV are.

[wedge]

Indeed and thanks, but F1 has been my passion for over 20 years and its looking like soon I'll only be able to follow it by reading stuff on the Internet. I get mocked for watching a sport nobody else follows but F1 is mine. It's difficult to accept and possibly say goodbye to when I've followed it for so long. It's frustrating to read how wonderful sky is and how lucky we are to have it when it's completely out of my reach and I'm afraid I will feel bitter about it. :(

Unfortunately its going to be a different way of following the sport.

Fortunately there's more to motorsport than F1.

[wedge]

Sorry to repeat my previous question, but why is this so?


I honestly don't know. Country specific, case by case basis? I can't remember what our Scandinavian counterparts reasoned.

Sky Italia have taken Sky UK as precendent and replicated a similar deal to us in Italy. Italy follows UK in F1 pay TV deal with SkyJames Allen on F1 (http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/06/italy-follows-uk-in-f1-pay-tv-deal-with-sky/)

[BDunnell]

Country specific, case by case basis?

This would certainly be interesting.

In Germany, I'm pretty certain that it remains on RTL, free-to-air, for all races.

[SGWilko]

I am aware it was the BBC who forced the deal and therefore are guilty of screwing the fans over. I don't have much respect for them as an organisation and I think most people given the choice would scrap the TV license as the quality of programming is appalling of late. I probably wouldn't be so vocal about that if they at least had the F1 coverage. I also hit out at Sky because they charge silly amounts of money for subscriptions and I don't think they have done anything to accommodate fans who wanted to receive the F1 channel. Its not worth 30 odd quid a month that's for sure and even less so when they are really only delivering 10 more live races than the BBC. £400 a year for 10 races just seems like a huge rip off and again I think Sky should have offered the channel on its own so more fans could receive it. They are not getting the subscriptions they want so why not do something for us? I don't have anything against Sky as a company apart from them ripping people off. My father has just cancelled his Sky subscription after his bill once again got put up without informing him. Obviously they are always very sorry on the phone but when your bill goes from £50 p/m to nearly £90 for the second time in 6 months, its clear they are not a company who make their money honestly. This also means I no longer have the option to view Sky Go should I find the need or be in when a race is on.


I wish I had your attitude where I could just drop my interest, but F1 is the only motorsport I have followed properly in my life. I don't live close to a race track any more and can't satisfy my need by reading a few articles and thinking 'wow that sounded like an awesome race!!'. I want to see the bloody race and watch the action for myself. I also can't think of another form of motorsport at the same level as F1 that is covered on FTA tv?

Well, I agree on the mostpart on your sentiments towards the Beeb - but you acannot fault them for what they did. Just because they are being forced to cut costs why should they ditch F1 if a deal can be done. It is, as always, the head folk that cream all the money off - look at the Entwhistle payoff as an example.

Whilst I watch very little of the myriad channels on my Sky HD subscription, I do get to watch all the mainstream stuff in HD, and this does make quite a difference. The sound is much crisper too.

I've generally been dissapointed with the F1 coverage, but that is a moot point, as I can see all the FP's and the qually and race in full and HD. I will no doubt ring up to cancel my subscription in March, with a view to getting a discount - as my ADSL is up for renewal in September, and I am at my wits end with TalkTalk, so will probably go with Sky and get a better allround package and the value that may well give.

[Wasted Talent]

BBC losing Monaco is a bad thing and so is them possibly only having 9 races live this year as the Tba race doesn't materialize.

Yes, I wonder if that bit will be re-negotiated to allow BBC 10 live races?

WT

[AndyL]

There would certainly be cuts, you could be sure of that. How much, I wonder, could be saved by cutting all the red-button stuff, all the analysis, the presenter, and just showing a live race with two commentators and a pit lane reporter?

Personally I'd be quite happy if they did that. I generally don't watch the pre-race stuff anyway (and what I have seen has been pretty valueless, whether it was on ITV, BBC or Sky). While I liked the BBC post-race forum, I'd rather have live race coverage and no post-race than highlights with extensive post-race analysis.

That commentators-only style of coverage works well for Eurosport with MotoGP (and they don't even have a pit lane reporter any more).

My all-time favourite BTCC coverage was when Motors TV used to do the whole meeting live, with no studio or presenters, just the commentators and the circuit cameras. You could watch all the support races, and you even got to see the marshals sweeping and the recovery truck collecting the crashed cars between races! It was like actually being there, except you could see all the way round the circuit and the refreshments were cheaper.

The trouble with that kind of coverage is that while it appeals to the dedicated motorsport fan, you probably can't get away with it on a mainstream channel like BBC1 where you need to attract a mass audience.

[Dave B]

There's an FTA clause for 'key markets' in the Concorde Agreement.
There's currently no ratified Concorde Agreement - that's the scary thing. All the teams have agreed to it "in principal", but the old one expired on 31 December 2012 and the new one hasn't been signed yet.

[Dave B]

Well I'm lost then, and I'm gutted about that.

I can't compete with you guys who can afford to pay for it and I'm rather bitter about that.
Shouldn't have piddled all that money away on a phone then :p ;)

[Dave B]

And the end result of all of this is, surely, a massive decline in the popularity of the sport in the UK. I can see the same happening to snooker when, as is surely (and very sadly) inevitable, the World Championship moves to China and thus is only shown, probably on a pay channel, at an inhospitable time of day.
That's entirely possible. The billion dollar question is: do the promoters care? If it were your business, would you sacrifice the (big) UK market for the (potentially massive) Eastern one, even if it meant alienating your most loyal customers? Sadly I suspect the answer is yes - in both cases. To them, it's all about the bottom line, and understandably so I guess.

[SGWilko]

I didn't.
I won't use the response I would like to use as this is a family forum. Yeah nice one Dave.

Harry Hill needed to sort this one out please.....!! ;) :laugh:

[BDunnell]

That's entirely possible. The billion dollar question is: do the promoters care? If it were your business, would you sacrifice the (big) UK market for the (potentially massive) Eastern one, even if it meant alienating your most loyal customers? Sadly I suspect the answer is yes - in both cases. To them, it's all about the bottom line, and understandably so I guess.

In which case, the best option is to find a solution which suits both, which I'm sure can be done. To do otherwise strikes me as utterly counter-intuitive.

[Dave B]

I didn't.
I won't use the response I would like to use as this is a family forum. Yeah nice one Dave.
Sorry, did the :p and the ;) not show up on my post? Lighten up! :)

[Dave B]

In which case, the best option is to find a solution which suits both, which I'm sure can be done. To do otherwise strikes me as utterly counter-intuitive.
You'd think so, wouldn't you? But here's a quick example of money trumping sense: F1 fans at the track will no longer have access to FanVision (those portable screens with live timing and various streams like onboard cameras) after the company failed to agree terms with FOM. Now obviously there are two sides to the story, but clearly a compromise couldn't be reached so it'll be fans who suffer. I fear the same will happen with broadcast rights.

Linky to story: FanVision absent from Formula 1 in 2013 - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105060)

[BDunnell]

Just a thought — I wonder whether one soon-to-be broadcaster, namely BT, may in future decide to enter into the F1 coverage equation?

[Dave B]

Just a thought — I wonder whether one soon-to-be broadcaster, namely BT, may in future decide to enter into the F1 coverage equation?
They're an interesting case. They seem to be buying up rights like there's no tomorrow, and clearly have big ambitions and the financial muscle to back it up.

[wedge]

They were unwilling to drop the price to keep F1 on FTA television in the UK.

Why should it be kept low if there's a bidding war?

[wedge]

It depends if they want the quick buck or the quality of delivery to be kept at a higher standard of course. From a business perspective they are going to take whatever broadcaster offers the most money which is what they did, but it could have been kept on FTA if CVC had wanted it to. In hindsight they have their money, but neither Sky or the BBC offer anything as good as we had between 2009 and 2011 right now. The fans have lost out, some more than others.

I have repeatedly pointed out on this thread that the deal was not about money.

Ch4 matched Sky's bid.

BBC played kingmaker. They didn't want it going to a rival FTA channel because they know they will be severely compromised at the next round of bidding.

[BDunnell]

We don't know how much CVC influenced the final outcome and it wasn't long ago the BBC were vocal on the fact (their opinion) the decision to deal with Sky was not solely down to them.

If it was completely down to the BBC then it makes you wonder how they were given so much power with such an important decision? Bernie and his muppets have always had such an iron fisted approach to TV rights and squeezing broadcasters yet when this deal was done they claim to have left the BBC to decide who was to broadcast Formula One in the UK for the next 5 years. Strange indeed. It was such a change to what had gone before by slashing half the live races in favour of a poorly watched satellite channel getting all the coverage yet Bernie was fine with it and claimed not to have been involved.

Because it was a good way of getting an initial 'foot in the door' with Sky?

[wedge]

We don't know how much CVC influenced the final outcome and it wasn't long ago the BBC were vocal on the fact (their opinion) the decision to deal with Sky was not solely down to them.

If it was completely down to the BBC then it makes you wonder how they were given so much power with such an important decision? Bernie and his muppets have always had such an iron fisted approach to TV rights and squeezing broadcasters yet when this deal was done they claim to have left the BBC to decide who was to broadcast Formula One in the UK for the next 5 years. Strange indeed. It was such a change to what had gone before by slashing half the live races in favour of a poorly watched satellite channel getting all the coverage yet Bernie was fine with it and claimed not to have been involved. I believe the BBC approached broadcasters but I don't believe they had the final say.

This is what Martin Turner, executive producer of F1 HD, had to say:


"The BBC came to us. We didn’t go to the BBC and we didn’t go to Formula One"

"The BBC was under a lot of pressure with budgets, and they felt that this was a way they could keep Formula One on the BBC in some form or another. The contract could have gone a different way. They could have asked to be relieved of the contract and they [Formula One] could’ve put it out to terrestrial bidders and not involved us."

Sky F1 HD: The BBC came to us to save its Formula One rights - Pocket-lint (http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/44491/sky-f1-hd-bbc-asked-us)

BBC backed Sky's bid with their £15m top up.

BBC made no comment on the actual deal says it all. Even Bernie was strangely open about the whole deal:


But Ecclestone revealed: “They [The BBC] had a contract in force already, from 2012 all the way through to 2014.

“They got to grips with Sky themselves. I spoke with ITV too, and came up with the same problem as Channel 4 had. We had a contract with the BBC which didn’t run out until 2014.

“We couldn’t very well do a deal with other people for them to start doing something next year, because we had that contract.

“Other broadcasters wouldn’t want to wait until 2014 to decide what they wanted to pay.”

The F1 supremo believes the BBC – led by Director of Sport Barbara Slater – were looking to make savings in the region of £25million a year.

They wanted to renegotiate their broadcasting rights into a shared deal with another network, but simply didn’t want to share the sport with a terrestrial rival.

Asked whether the BBC “held all the cards” over the new deal, he added: “Yes, absolutely. If they [Channel 4] had said they wanted to sign a contract today to start broadcasting for £45m a year, then we would have probably done it.

“But that’s the problem. We couldn’t deal with them, even if they had wanted to.”

Formula One supremo Bernie Ecclestone: My hands were tied over BBC/Sky deal - Mirror Online (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula-1/formula-one-supremo-bernie-ecclestone-148411)

[jj2448jg]

In my opinion, Sky Sports F1 have done an amazing job this year, and with their second year coming up, their coverage can only go from strength to strength. Damon, Johnny and Simon seem to have finally gelled, whereas the Sky Pad seems to be working good as well. Also Ted Kravitz is superb, so really thinking this year will see another level in their coverage.


Just a thought — I wonder whether one soon-to-be broadcaster, namely BT, may in future decide to enter into the F1 coverage equation?

Who knows with this, but once Sky get their hands on a sport, it is excruciatingly hard to prize it off their hands. Maybe a return for Jake Humphrey if ever it went to BT? ;)

[ilsit]

Its a joke the BBC put the highlights on so late at night when I first heard about the deal I was told the BBC could show highlights straight after the race has finished. A few more years of this and it wont help to maintain the popularity of the sport in the UK. Even Luca di Montezemolo sounded a bit cheesed off by it all and even hinted it was time for Bernie to go in a recent interview I read

[steveaki13]

I have put this here and in the Launch Thread. I no some dont have access, but just for info, Sky F1 will begins its new season programming over the next week. Featuring an Interview with Lewis Hamilton, Launches covereded and reporting from the Pre Season Tests. Although not as I had hoped.

I hoped as cameras tend to be there anyway, Sky F1 might just give us that feed. Oh well. http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/25460/8440673/Sky-Sports-F1-What-s-coming-up-

[RS]

The final test will be live on Sky: Sky Sports to show final Formula 1 test live in 3D - Grapevine - F1 - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/105439)

[henners88]

The final test will be live on Sky: Sky Sports to show final Formula 1 test live in 3D - Grapevine - F1 - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/105439)
Yeah that news was being spread all over twitter since yesterday and I hope the BBC don't go down the 3D route any time soon. The sooner 3D dies the better as far as I am concerned.

[Natalie.S]

The final test will be live on Sky:
Fantastic, Sky really bring something extra to F1 coverage well done
Don't particulary care for 3D but it will be available in 2D too

[steveaki13]

Good Move. Afterall with a whole Channel for F1 and fairly expensive service, this is the extra coverage that gets people interested. Should be good. Just a shame they havent taken the decision earlier and for all 3 tests.

[henners88]

Good Move. Afterall with a whole Channel for F1 and fairly expensive service, this is the extra coverage that gets people interested. Should be good. Just a shame they havent taken the decision earlier and for all 3 tests.
That's the thing, with the amount of money it costs to get this supposed wonderful channel, you'd have expected this to have been introduced earlier. Plus its not complete coverage of the final test, its only the last 2 hours broadcast live. I'll be honest I don't watch many practise sessions during the season as I find them intensely boring, so I'm happy with highlights and written articles when it comes to testing. Its nice for you guys to have the option though.

[Dave B]

Testing is pretty mind numbing to watch, but the evening round ups and Ted's Notebooks have been excellent viewing.

[AndyL]

Testing is pretty mind numbing to watch, but the evening round ups and Ted's Notebooks have been excellent viewing.

He loves his monkey seats doesn't he.

[Natalie.S]

Testing is pretty mind numbing to watch, but the evening round ups and Ted's Notebooks have been excellent viewing.
Thing is testing never got any coverage until Sky got involved.
I like the evening round ups as well.
Now the Beeb is even forced to pay attention to testing where before they completely ignored it

[henners88]

The BBC have provided live text and been present at testing since they took over the coverage in 2009. They haven't completely ignored it in the past. I don't feel they are doing any more now than they have ever done. Annoying I don't think they are being 'forced' to do anything right now, I wish they were taking note of sky in situations like this. The truth is the Beeb know they are the primary broadcaster reaching 80% of British fans, so they know they don't have to put as much effort in for their return.

[Natalie.S]

I don't feel they are doing any more now than they have ever done.
Dream on.......
We never saw coverage like last week with Suzi Perry trackside at test #1
Sky is pushing plain old Beeb and me like :D

[henners88]

Fair enough 'bro', we can agree to disagree on that one.

[Natalie.S]

Fair enough 'bro', we can agree to disagree on that one.
There's nothing to disagree on 'bro'
BBC never had any coverage of pre-season testing until Sky took over

[Dave B]

The news channel often did a brief round up as part of Sportsday, but nothing like Sky have at the moment.

Sent from my monkey seat using a helmet.

[henners88]

My stance on this again, is that the BBC always covered testing be it through 'live text' or video's on their website, but they have never covered it to the extent Sky are now.

My previous comments were in relation to the claim the BBC completely 'ignored' testing when we know that is not the case. Either way testing is testing and there is enough information out there for any fan to get what they want whether its on TV or not.

[acescribe]

Yes it has been good etc, but with the money that a subscriber pays for Sky Sports F1, surely the testing coverage should be expected.

[philipbain]

Yes it has been good etc, but with the money that a subscriber pays for Sky Sports F1, surely the testing coverage should be expected.

This is true, plus they have a dedicated F1 channel, the only reason they don't have live coverage of the tests is that FOM don't send their cameras and production crew to them! wouldnt expect anything less to be honest, the coverage of the car launches was also pretty decent on Sky. To be honest I like both the Beeb and Sky's coverage of F1, but for sheer quality & completeness Sky's coverage takes a lot of beating IMHO.

[henners88]

This goes some way to answer why the sport went on a pay channel. Italy has also lost half its coverage to Sky for 2013. The teams are in financial trouble and somebody has to pay for it. Hopefully interest will dwindle and the sport will continue to slip further in to financial decline. I think in years to come the sport will be forced to seek this interest back and they'll realise bums on seats and popularity in where the long term money comes from rather than the quick buck.

BBC Sport - Formula 1 teams 'are in survival mode', says Whitmarsh (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21463651)

[Mark]

But moving to a pay channel will only make things worse for the teams. They claim the main reason is that sponsorship money is down. Well in order to get sponsorship up you need people watching the races, as many as you can possibly get.

F1 is different from football and the same model cannot be applied here.

[henners88]

I think that's why it'll go this route for a few years and then the reality will come to the surface. In Italy the passion for F1 is high and with it now going the same way it has done in the UK, I think we'll see a similar decline in viewer-ship there too. Sponsors aren't going to want to pay full price to the teams if they know some live races are only going to attract 800k viewers. Initially teams like McLaren were dead against the switch to Sky and sought assurance full coverage would remain on the Beeb even if it was delayed somewhat. This opinion quickly changed when they realised they would each get a little bit more money through the new broadcaster and suddenly the number of fans watching didn't seem to matter. I think that's short sighted and hopefully they'll realise dumping 3m of their audience wasn't great for the long term.

[Natalie.S]

But moving to a pay channel will only make things worse for the teams. They claim the main reason is that sponsorship money is down. Well in order to get sponsorship up you need people watching the races, as many as you can possibly get.
A few million less viewers in the UK and potentially a few million less in Italy will hardly affect a (potential) global sponsor's decision to get involved in F1 or not.
Sponsor money will become easier to come by once the economy bounces back.

Whitmarsh just wants a bigger slice of CVC's pie for the teams hence that article.
Money that predominantly comes from selling TV rights such as the very lucrative deals with Sky.

Pay TV and/or Pay per View for live sports and highlights or re-runs Free to Air is what the future holds for sports like F1 imo

[Mark]

A few million in the UK a few million elsewhere. It all adds up. Before you know it you are IndyCar!

[wedge]

Depends how lucrative pay tv is.

I surprised to find that F1 which is w global sport trumped by the NFL via tv money.

[christophulus]

Amazingly, the move to pay TV has resulted in a decline in viewer numbers! I guess no one saw this coming?? :rolleyes:


UK coverage was split for the first time between the BBC and pay-TV broadcaster BSkyB in 2012, which led to viewing figures falling by 3.8 million to 28.6 million. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/feb/15/formula-one-tv)Formula One TV viewing hits the skids | Media | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/feb/15/formula-one-tv)

[Natalie.S]

Amazingly, the move to pay TV has resulted in a decline in viewer numbers! I guess no one saw this coming?? :rolleyes:

I think the relatively limited decline in UK viewer numbers was always anticipated.
The important part of the article is this:

"However, it isn't all bad news for the teams. For the first time this year they will receive 63% of F1's total profits as prize money, meaning that they also benefit from the increased money brought in from TV rights sales. The deal with the BBC and Sky is understood to be worth $100m annually – a 25% boost on the price of the previous free-to-air-only coverage."

Kching $$$$
and that is what counts bottom line for the teams

[Knock-on]

I think Tamb is right for once. All teams look to the bottom line in F1 and anyone that thinks there is a noble purist team fighting for the rights of the common fan is living in cuckoo land.

[steveaki13]

I think Tamb is right for once. :eek: What are you saying about Natalie?

[Knock-on]

"'She's" no Lady ;)

[henners88]

I think Tamb is right for once. All teams look to the bottom line in F1 and anyone that thinks there is a noble purist team fighting for the rights of the common fan is living in cuckoo land.
I think we all hope we count as fans but the reality is the teams don't do anything for the fans. This is why I enjoy stories like this and hope the sport drops in popularity, the sooner the better. It's in need of a wake up call before it completely sells out. The only losers in this are Sky for paying so much money for the coverage and only attracting a 4th of what they were expecting in terms of viewership.

[Knock-on]

I made myself unpopular with a BBC commentator recently when I said I preferred the indepth coverage on Sky. I think the Beebs coverage is slightly better quality because of the presenters but Sky offer a lot more.

[BDunnell]

A few million in the UK a few million elsewhere. It all adds up. Before you know it you are IndyCar!

Exactly.

[Tazio]

"'She's" no Lady ;) 'T-lo' is crossdressing now? :confused: Say it ain't so! :p :

[steveaki13]

'T-lo' is crossdressing now? :confused: Say it ain't so! :p :


How many Identities is that now? :cool:

[Natalie.S]

The only losers in this are Sky for paying so much money for the coverage
No need to worry about Sky.
The beauty is that Sky only need relatively few subscribers to make it worth their while.


Also there's the knock-on effect that if they more or less monopolise live-sport on TV there will be less competition on Saturday/Sunday afternoon.


Better stop hoping and start saving because those who want to see live top sports in future will have to pay

[henners88]

I made myself unpopular with a BBC commentator recently when I said I preferred the indepth coverage on Sky. I think the Beebs coverage is slightly better quality because of the presenters but Sky offer a lot more.
I find the build up and post race stuff on Sky rather dull with far too much filler to pass the time between vital adverts. Why does a pay service that robs you of so much money a month use so many advert breaks? Of course its for the money and is why they post record profits year in year out. Lazenby asks questions on behalf of casual viewers yet they haven't realised by now that casual viewers are not their audience. You could understand it when Jake did it on the Beeb because they were attracting channel hoppers and new fans perhaps with limited knowledge, hence the increase in viewer-ship post 2009. Sky offer a lot more in terms of time on air but in terms of content I have to disagree that they bring more to the viewer. Just my opinion of course.

I think the really telling stat is when the races are on both channels live. Sky experience a drop of nearly a third! They claim to have expected this but I can't believe they would be happy to lose viewers when they claim to offer a better service. Seeing fans run to the opposition suggests they are not as attractive an an overall package IMO.

No need to worry about Sky.
The beauty is that Sky only need relatively few subscribers to make it worth their while.
Will the sponsors who plug millions into the sport think its a 'beauty' if the teams are being paid more but their products are reaching less people though? If anything the sponsors rely on casual viewers who stay on the channel long enough to see Santander in the background before they flick over to BBC 2 for Countryfile on a Sunday. Unless you are a serious fan you are not going to scroll through the sports channels on Sky to stumble upon the F1 channel. The beauty of it being on FTA was that any serious fan can watch the channel and others not interested will watch it for a few minutes after accidentally turning the channel on etc etc. Bernie used to say we didn't need a British GP because the real revenue was made by the sheer amount of people watching at home, now its suddenly unimportant.


Better stop hoping and start saving because those who want to see live top sports in future will have to pay
Sky simply can't compete with other services in terms of offering value for money. I get so much advertising through the post trying to tempt me with deals but I would have to pay over £60 a month to get what I get now on Talk Talk. I pay less than half that, but of course that doesn't come with the F1 channel. I can upgrade for 30 day periods for £30 but I don't think Sky offer a good enough experience to warrant the price. There's only so much 'Your home of F1' preview shows I can watch to be honest when races are not on. If it completely goes off FTA I will either find an illegal way of viewing it or find another form of motorsport to invest my interests in. If Sky were not bothered about my custom they wouldn't post me marketing waffle or ring me occasionally to try and get me to subscribe. Unfortunately I don't claim benefits and live in a council house with several children. If I did I'd be able to get the tax payer to help me out on this lol. They need to be realistic about pricing and then they will have a chance of monopolising British television. They are a long way off as it stands and its no wonder.

[The Black Knight]

Just an FYI to all, Lewis Hamilton will be on Top Gear tonight :) Can't wait to see what he does with the reasonably priced car in the dry this time :)

[henners88]

Forgot to record it, I will iplayer it tomorrow lol.

[Natalie.S]

Will the sponsors who plug millions into the sport think its a 'beauty' if the teams are being paid more but their products are reaching less people though?

Teams care about the bottom line, if the pay TV option is more profitable then they will simply opt for different, perhaps less paying, sponsors if the current ones are not satisfied. Also sponsors don't care if you see their logos live or in highlights.


Also the demographic of people who pay to watch sports is quite interesting.
No point to advertise a Rolex to folk who even can't afford a few tenners a month to watch F1.


Sky simply can't compete with other services in terms of offering value for money.
Sky does not have to compete, if you want to see everything F1 live, in full and in HD there's only Sky :)

[henners88]

Teams care about the bottom line, if the pay TV option is more profitable then they will simply opt for different, perhaps less paying, sponsors if the current ones are not satisfied. Also sponsors don't care if you see their logos live or in highlights.
Indeed tamb which is why the sponsors we see on the cars and at races today are more in line with the high street rather than the luxury brands of some years ago. Sponsors may not care if you see their brands live or on highlights, but they do care when a million less viewers overall are tuning in. That will always be a cause for concern by basic logic.

Also the demographic of people who pay to watch sports is quite interesting.
No point to advertise a Rolex to folk who even can't afford a few tenners a month to watch F1.
If you look at the demographic of Sky customers in the UK who pay to watch sports, its more in-line with the middle to lower class. They aren't all the high earners at all. For some priorities are very different and you'd be surprised how many people come to citizens advice and think their TV subscription is as necessary as their gas bill. If you think by slapping F1 on pay TV is suddenly going to weed out the poorer demographic of viewer and appeal to Rolex worthy customers, then I can't share that enthusiasm.

Sky does not have to compete, if you want to see everything F1 live, in full and in HD there's only Sky :)
I believe they do have to compete otherwise they wouldn't send out so many mailings around the country and cold call people into subscribing. Yesterday they were at a stand on the entrance to my local ASDA store stopping people as they go in and out. Everybody has heard of Sky in the UK so for a company that doesn't have to compete, you have to wonder why so much is spent on marketing? One thing Sky are doing very well at is attracting people to their broadband packages. TV subscriptions may have been down on the expected in 2012 but the broadband side of the company has enjoyed an increase. The downside of that is they don't have the infrastructure to deal with it. Hence why they offer unlimited packages at a premium and cap the standard packages unlike their rivals. Sky have squeezed their rivals when others have wanted to offer their TV packages so these rivals through BT are squeezing Sky for fibre optic and cable rental with their broadband. Sky do have the trump card over many because they offer sports, but it comes at a premium and many like myself don't think its worth the price they ask. I'm annoyed I can't watch the F1 fully any more like most, but in the long run it'll be their loss not mine. The drop off will be a concern in future no doubt like it was in the past. Sports don't survive without interest.

[Knock-on]

The domestic market is pretty inconsequential for major sponsors. Even the EU is a nice to have. Sponsors like Boss, Jonny Walker etc are creaming their pants about China, Russia and India. Strangely, three of the most recent races ;)

A couple of hundred thousand turning off in the UK vs giving the teams more revenue from PPV is a small trade off for the emerging markets.

Follow the money...

[henners88]

The domestic market is pretty inconsequential for major sponsors. Even the EU is a nice to have. Sponsors like Boss, Jonny Walker etc are creaming their pants about China, Russia and India. Strangely, three of the most recent races ;)

A couple of hundred thousand turning off in the UK vs giving the teams more revenue from PPV is a small trade off for the emerging markets.

Follow the money...
Its not a couple of hundred thousand though is it? As it stands its a million down on 2011 with only a minority choosing to watch on Sky. The BBC is still the primary channel for F1 in the UK and you take it off there then the figures for viewers in the UK looks very bleak indeed. If it really has got to the point where F1 really only cares about selling its sponsors products in the East rather than what is going on on the track, then I think you lot are mugs for paying for it. We're pushing the sport away and there seems to be plenty of support whether they know it or not.

[The Black Knight]

Forgot to record it, I will iplayer it tomorrow lol.

I'm assuming you watched it but in case you didn't don't read any further.


I'm so glad that Hamilton beat Vettel's time. I know you can't compare them to a F1 car but he's so far ahead of the rest of the drivers with that time that it really shows to me he is one of the fastest drivers the sport has ever seen, if not the fastest, and he could beat Vettel any day of the week, in my opinion.

[EuroTroll]

...Hamilton [...] could beat Vettel any day of the week, in my opinion.

He just chooses not to, right? :D

[AndyL]

I think the really telling stat is when the races are on both channels live. Sky experience a drop of nearly a third! They claim to have expected this but I can't believe they would be happy to lose viewers when they claim to offer a better service. Seeing fans run to the opposition suggests they are not as attractive an an overall package IMO.

To put that another way, of the regular Sky F1 viewers, a two thirds majority prefer it to the BBC coverage even when they have a choice.

[Dave B]

The domestic market is pretty inconsequential for major sponsors. Even the EU is a nice to have. Sponsors like Boss, Jonny Walker etc are creaming their pants about China, Russia and India. Strangely, three of the most recent races ;)

A couple of hundred thousand turning off in the UK vs giving the teams more revenue from PPV is a small trade off for the emerging markets.

Follow the money...
That was my point a few pages back. We love to pretend the UK is still important, but it's the BRIC countries where the money is.

[henners88]

Of course Andy the flip side of the same statement effectively. When several million are watching the Beeb on that given weekend with Sky transmitting to 700k if they are lucky, it's still obvious FTA is always going to be hard to beat. That's just the basic mathematics of restricting the viewer base. Both channels have their positives and both do certain things better than the other, but the reality is the coverage is poorer than it has been pre 2012. The BBC had it nailed in every aspect, now it's diluted and padded out with filler as far as I am concerned. I'm sure those Sky fans amongst you will disagree with that but there we are.

[henners88]

There are also rumours this morning that new customers will only be able to access Sky Sports F1 through the full sports pack. New customers may not be able to opt for the HD package to gain access. Nothing is confirmed there but that can only be good news for Sky. Its always been a case of when rather than if in terms of how they offer the channel. Bad news for fans contemplating switching but not so bad if you've already subscribed. If the rumour is of course true, how long until its simply added for all involved?

[Mark]

There are also rumours this morning that new customers will only be able to access Sky Sports F1 through the full sports pack. New customers may not be able to opt for the HD package to gain access. Nothing is confirmed there but that can only be good news for Sky. Its always been a case of when rather than if in terms of how they offer the channel. Bad news for fans contemplating switching but not so bad if you've already subscribed. If the rumour is of course true, how long until its simply added for all involved?

Well that much was obvious that it was coming. I was half expecting it to be the case for all subscribers this year tbh. Despite having a years worth of Sky coverage my opinion is unchanged on the subject, that I'll still watch the BBC coverage when it's on, and I won't pay any extra to Sky to have live coverage.

[henners88]

Well that much was obvious that it was coming. I was half expecting it to be the case for all subscribers this year tbh. Despite having a years worth of Sky coverage my opinion is unchanged on the subject, that I'll still watch the BBC coverage when it's on, and I won't pay any extra to Sky to have live coverage.
Your stance isn't that uncommon either Mark. There are people like me who won't pay extra for HD, and there are those who didn't mind paying an extra tenner a month if it meant they got the F1. I've seen lots of people say that they'll drop it if it gets more expensive i.e added to the Sports package. Then again perhaps it makes sense to Sky because although they may lose half of their viewers again, the cost will be made up by those left paying the difference? I think they need to do it sooner rather than later so people don't get locked into contracts they don't wish to be part of.

[The Black Knight]

He just chooses not to, right? :D

Nope, he just hasn't been provided the car with which he could do it yet.

[steveaki13]

I think the BBC is the preferred choice for most F1 fans in the UK. I certainly would rather have 2009-2011 coeverage for all to enjoy.

I enjoy Skys coverage and have no real reason miss BBC Coverage, but I think F1 is better as a whole if everyone possible can get access to it.

I suppose really it all comes down to what "Big E" decides he wants.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Big E has tried to get F1 off public channels for years. His latest success is that now the French have to pay extra, too. I think Germany and Austria are almost the last countries that have full coverage in free TV and I'm pretty sure he would love to see RTL and ORF lose the TV rights. You have to keep in mind that E gets the money from the broadcasters, not the viewers, so he couldn't care less how many people actually watch it, he only cares about whether or not Sky & Co cough up the dough.
From the perspective of sponsors free TV would be the better alternative, as it reaches more viewers, but the public broadcasters cannot fulfill E's ridiculous monetary demands.

[EuroTroll]

I think Germany and Austria are almost the last countries that have full coverage in free TV and I'm pretty sure he would love to see RTL and ORF lose the TV rights.

I really hope that doesn't happen, as RTL is the only free source of live F1 coverage for many outside Germany as well.

[henners88]

I think its only a matter of time before Germany follows the rest of Europe. Its sad for you guys having such a German influence in the Championship but the bottom line is Bernie doesn't care whether you are watching or not. It'll take a few years but the result of this greed will come back to bite them. It probably won't be in Bernie's lifetime and he'll go to his grave a very wealthy man. I just hope whoever takes over has a different perspective on how they want the sport to be perceived worldwide and wants it to be popular rather than simply a money maker. In ten years time are broadcasters going to be bidding big money for a sport that has slipped in popularity and draws only a fraction of its viewers in a previous era? Paying 80 or so million for a sport that is only going to attract a million or so viewers is not something broadcasters in the UK would pay for unless it was Sky of course. We have TV shows here that get dropped when they have only 3 million viewers and they cost considerably less to produce.

[Coulthard Fan]

I have sky due to being a football fan, but BBC wins hands down in my opinion. Can't stand Simon lazenby I find him really dull! I loved Jake Humphrey and am a big Suzie Perry fan.
As you can tell by my name it's clear who's commentators I prefer.
The build up on sky is awful it's far too long and not very exciting but I loved the BBC build up its class.

Have the races for the BBC been announced yet? If so what are they.

[Coulthard Fan]

I was just watching Sky Sports News and they were showing a table of all the drivers and Max had a cross of Saint George and Paul had a Union Jack!?! Lewis and Jenson always race under a Union Jack but why is Max racing under a cross of Saint George?

[steveaki13]

This morning Sky Sports News were doing a piece about Red Bull & showed a clip of a Toro Rosso pulling out of the garage. :dozey:

[henners88]

Well it looks like Sky Sports F1 is officially being added to the sports pack after all. Its been long predicted of course. Its good news for those already on the deal as it looks like they can't take the channel off you but those who haven't upgraded to HD or like me who haven't subscribed to Sky, it's suddenly become a whole lot more expensive.

Another change for new subscribers is that Sky F1 HD is now only available with a full Sky Sports subscription and HD booster.

Existing subscribers to the £10.25/month HD boost will still get Sky F1 HD without Sky Sports, and Sky said there are no plans to change that in future seasons.



Sky combines HD and 3D in new basic TV package: UPDATED - Recombu (http://recombu.com/digital/news/sky-combines-hd-and-3d-in-new-basic-tv-package_M11199.html)

Sky obviously made the F1 channel available through HD only in reaction to the uproar when the deal was first announced. It was a tempting way to get F1 fans to subscribe without having to pay the massive sum for the full sports package. Unfortunately for Sky nowhere near as many fans as they expected signed up for what they thought was a tempting offer. Adding it to the sports package makes little difference and now they can boost their ratings claims by saying '8 million viewers watch Sky Sports' rather than 'less than a million are watching our F1 channel'. I'm glad they have done this because it makes any future decisions for me a little more clear cut. :)

[Mark]

Well that's happened sooner than exepected but I'm glad I took out my HD sub when I did.

[AndyL]

Well that's happened sooner than exepected but I'm glad I took out my HD sub when I did.

Yes likewise.

[Mark]

When they say "No plans to change" probably means we'll get the 2013 season, but come 2014 we'll have to pay..

[henners88]

When they say "No plans to change" probably means we'll get the 2013 season, but come 2014 we'll have to pay..
Well they did say 'we have no plans to move the channel onto the sports package' when asked last season so I think its only a matter of time before they do this. I know they are also offering less when people threaten to leave as they've cottoned on to the tactic now, so its doubtful you'd be able to blag the channel at no extra cost should it move completely.

[steveaki13]

This was always the worry with Sky getting F1.

They tried (and failed) to make us believe they wouldn't do this and wow after one year they have. Next season you will have ads in race and the year after have to pay extra on top of your sports package.

[truefan72]

This was always the worry with Sky getting F1.

They tried (and failed) to make us believe they wouldn't do this and wow after one year they have. Next season you will have ads in race and the year after have to pay extra on top of your sports package.

welcome to how speedtv/speedvision showed F1 over the past decade here in the US
I loved the crew but the coverage style with its 5 minute in-race ads, premium package service in many areas, only Fp2, qualy and race
then abbreviated fox coverage with some others in the past few years, that is what we had to deal with and why i moved to online viewing

Now I don't even know where its going to be shown in 2013
At least you get what you pay for with a dedicated channel for F1

[airshifter]

welcome to how speedtv/speedvision showed F1 over the past decade here in the US
I loved the crew but the coverage style with its 5 minute in-race ads, premium package service in many areas, only Fp2, qualy and race
then abbreviated fox coverage with some others in the past few years, that is what we had to deal with and why i moved to online viewing

Now I don't even know where its going to be shown in 2013
At least you get what you pay for with a dedicated channel for F1

F1 is going to NBC for US coverage in 2013, so overall it should be easier for the average person to watch the racing here. From my understanding some races will be on the "main" NBC channels with others being on the NBC Sports Network channel. Hopefully most people will have both in their cable/FIOS/dish network package.

From what I've heard we will get some practice coverage, but I'm not sure if that will be all sessions or not. All races to be aired live the last I heard, and available for live streaming on the NBC Sports Network site IIRC. The entire team from Speed less Sam Posey will be with NBC.

I hated the Fox coverage, hopefully this new package will be as good or better than Speed.

[acescribe]

Well that's happened sooner than exepected but I'm glad I took out my HD sub when I did.

And I'm so glad my Mrs opted for an HD Sky+ box !

But I have looked at my finances wondering if the £35 per month would be more sensibly spent elsewhere.

[henners88]

We did have a decade or so of the coverage being on ITV so we had adverts every 15 to 20 minutes throughout the race then. Obviously this was fazed out with the BBC and thankfully now we don't have to put up with adverts during the build up and post race either. How long before Sky sneak an advert in during the race? They don't tend to do it with football but F1 doesn't have a break after 45 minutes either. I think in the coming years when they feel they can get away with it, they will. At the start a lot of effort was put into tempting viewers across and this clearly hasn't worked as well as they'd hoped. Now they can relax and merge the channel in with other sports and advertising comes hand in hand with that.

[steveaki13]

We did have a decade or so of the coverage being on ITV so we had adverts every 15 to 20 minutes throughout the race then. Obviously this was fazed out with the BBC and thankfully now we don't have to put up with adverts during the build up and post race either. How long before Sky sneak an advert in during the race? They don't tend to do it with football but F1 doesn't have a break after 45 minutes either. I think in the coming years when they feel they can get away with it, they will. At the start a lot of effort was put into tempting viewers across and this clearly hasn't worked as well as they'd hoped. Now they can relax and merge the channel in with other sports and advertising comes hand in hand with that.

I think being picky since the passing of James Hunt F1 coverage in the UK has always had issues, except for one season 2011.

After Hunt, Palmer was wel informed but truely dull.

Then the ITV days were bad. Jardine, Blundell, Rosenthal, ads, goodman. I personally didnt mind James Allen & Brundle mostly but once Lewis appear he became slightly obsessed.

Then BBC was a revelation, but I still didnt like Legard.

Then 2011 was perfect for me. Brundle did Ok as a lead commentator, he and DC were informed and chilled out. Then they had to go and ruin it. Decent line up in the comm box and good pundits, no adds and every race.

Now although I have Sky F1 and dont mind their work, its still not as good as that one near perfect season. Although the season in terms of racing wasn't awesome with a one sided championship.

[Ash Smalley]

I always watched BBC for f1, when it came to sky taking the license i was annoyed angry sad etc, but the Sky broadcast has more options and clearer view available such as drive on board is more in depth, pit lane cameras, better build up than BBC, however sky do tend to put more breaks into their races

[steveaki13]

, however sky do tend to put more breaks into their races

Well thats not hard. 1 in a 5 hour programme would be more. :p :

[Mark]

Have to say I agree totally. Which is why it was more upsetting about Sky because finally in all my time watching F1 the coverage was spot on then they go and throw it all away.

I guess we just can't have nice things :(

[Wasted Talent]

We did have a decade or so of the coverage being on ITV so we had adverts every 15 to 20 minutes throughout the race then. Obviously this was fazed out with the BBC and thankfully now we don't have to put up with adverts during the build up and post race either. How long before Sky sneak an advert in during the race? They don't tend to do it with football but F1 doesn't have a break after 45 minutes either. I think in the coming years when they feel they can get away with it, they will. At the start a lot of effort was put into tempting viewers across and this clearly hasn't worked as well as they'd hoped. Now they can relax and merge the channel in with other sports and advertising comes hand in hand with that.

I can't see your problem with adverts on Sky - there aren't any during the race and I'm not aware of any plans to have them.

Besides which - given the options you have for viewing ie 6 in-cars and timing screens - even if they did put adverts in the main race coverage, and I'm pretty confident it won't happen, then just switch to an in-car for two minutes.

There's loads and loads of rubbish on BBC that I have absolutely no interest in but have to pay my licence fee, whereas a lot of people who like West-benders, Splank, and Dancing on Factor 10 or whatever it is probably resented having F1 clogging up their soaps and game shows for hours on Sunday. At least we now have a choice.

If I wasn't forced to by law I'd probably stop paying for the BBC and just stick to Sky for the sports

WT

[Wasted Talent]

This was always the worry with Sky getting F1.

They tried (and failed) to make us believe they wouldn't do this and wow after one year they have. Next season you will have ads in race and the year after have to pay extra on top of your sports package.

There's no way Sky would be able to charge extra above the Sports package for F1 - just look at the viewing figures, they would be even lower as not that many people would take it up. Sky Sports is basically centred around Premiership Football. Everything else, cricket, golf etc is just filling in the time between the football matches.

F1 on Sky was pretty unplanned, I don't think they bid for it the last time the contract was up for tender it was just the BBC suddenly wanting to cut a big chunk of their expenditure.

I see that Jake Humphrey is going to get £750k pa for fronting BT's Football next season and that allows him to stay at home with his family rather than lots of time away - makes you wonder what the Beeb were paying him for F1....

WT

[henners88]

I can't see your problem with adverts on Sky - there aren't any during the race and I'm not aware of any plans to have them.

Besides which - given the options you have for viewing ie 6 in-cars and timing screens - even if they did put adverts in the main race coverage, and I'm pretty confident it won't happen, then just switch to an in-car for two minutes.

There's loads and loads of rubbish on BBC that I have absolutely no interest in but have to pay my licence fee, whereas a lot of people who like West-benders, Splank, and Dancing on Factor 10 or whatever it is probably resented having F1 clogging up their soaps and game shows for hours on Sunday. At least we now have a choice.

If I wasn't forced to by law I'd probably stop paying for the BBC and just stick to Sky for the sports

WT
I didn't say they had adverts during the races now, I speculated about them coming in in future in relation to them going back on an earlier promise not to have the F1 channel as part of their sports package. The bottom line is if you are paying £30 or so a month for a channel, they really shouldn't be interrupted by adverts even if you could switch to an onboard camera for two minutes. That is unacceptable in the extreme, and for the sake of those of you who have bought Sky I hope it doesn't happen. I'm not bothered really just being polite. There is loads of crap on the BBC but I watch very little TV in any case, so what I do watch is being affected. I'm not really getting a return on my money and I'm considering not paying my license fee when I eventually move in to my new house as prosecution is almost impossible. I can't really agree on the 'at least we get a choice' line because I simply don't. My only choice is the BBC and its reduced coverage for half the season, with the alternative simply not being worth the price they charge. Its a no win situation for some of us.

[steveaki13]

I'm considering not paying my license fee when I eventually move in to my new house as prosecution is almost impossible.

But Henners there are eyes and ears everywhere. :uhoh:

[henners88]

My brother will tell you they will knock on your door and threaten legal action, but if they can't prove you own a TV its a little difficult. After 21 years of trying he has still not gone to court, but I'm generally more honest than him :)

[Mark]

Jake wouldn't have been getting anywhere near £750k I wouldn't have thought.

[henners88]

The Beeb were paying Chris Moyles more but it depends when the contract was negotiated.

[wedge]

Rumours spreading on the web that Georgie Thompson is being dumped from Sky.

Did a decent job for the F1 Show but won't be missed on weekends unless you're desperate to slap the salami post-race.

[Mark]

She never seemed like she knew what she was talking about nor cared. Could be replaced by anyone.

[steveaki13]

Did a decent job for the F1 Show but won't be missed on weekends unless you're desperate to slap the salami post-race.


Oh yer that reminds me. Erm how do you spell her name again. ;)