Rallye Wrc Monte-Carlo 2013

[jbmarcus21]

Road program is now out !
Programme du Rallye Wrc Monte-Carlo 2013 (http://planetemarcus.free.fr/montecarlo13.htm)

3 loop in Turini !

[Gregor-y]

I like the four day layout from Wednesday to Saturday - and let everyone find their way home on Sunday - but with eighteen stages and only three on Friday it will be a very slow paced event.

[Mirek]

The three stages of Friday covers a long way from Valence to Monaco and due to the location of these stages these three are most likely the ones where to expect dramas. It's huge distance although the competitive kilometers are rather small. Anyway this short leg sure deserves to be seen at least because of return of the legendary Sisteron stage!

What I really don't like is to have start in Monaco, shakedown in Sospel but first leg three hundred kilometers away at Valence!

[AndyRAC]

The WRC have never liked Valence. I can't remember the IRC complaining, though I could be wrong. However, it's a better route than this years. They will be running Col du Turini at night, won't they?

[Mirek]

They did last run in the night last year too but with more strict safety rules it lost something.

In the IRC they did both runs in the night with the second one ending near midnight in a great atmosphere. I feel really happy I could be there.

[amilk]

The three stages of Friday covers a long way from Valence to Monaco and due to the location of these stages these three are most likely the ones where to expect dramas. It's huge distance although the competitive kilometers are rather small. Anyway this short leg sure deserves to be seen at least because of return of the legendary Sisteron stage!

What I really don't like is to have start in Monaco, shakedown in Sospel but first leg three hundred kilometers away at Valence!

Agree, to much etap for spectators if would like to see the full program - and no realy new stages, I would be happy to see Sisteron and others back, but it will depend more on the wheather how spectacular will be.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Quick question. Is this rally now good for 2013 to access most of the stages in the day?

Which city/town is the best to stay in over the rally? Nice? Then easy access to drive/park close to stages and walk the rest of the way? Even being media?...

I'm extremely keen to head over! Just one phone call and i'm there! =D

[Mirek]

Definitely best is to stay on two places. Near Valence for northern stages and near Nice for southern ones (we usually stay in Menton). Be aware the mountain roads are very slow.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Would anyone be interested in sharing a car and going to stages in Monte?

[jbmarcus21]

Definitely best is to stay on two places. Near Valence for northern stages and near Nice for southern ones (we usually stay in Menton). Be aware the mountain roads are very slow.

yes the best place... with 2 places during Rallye... maybe for the first day more close that Rally.. Because Valence to go rally is a bit longer, and for the final days menton or noth menton is good ;)

[Allyc85]

Would anyone be interested in sharing a car and going to stages in Monte?

Me anda mate talked about going to the Monte. I shall have another word with him and see what we can get sorted :)

[stefanvv]

Classics:
World Rally Championship - News - The Monte’s coming... (http://www.wrc.com/news/the-montes-coming/?fid=17234)

[Mirek]

Answered in PM.

Tohle je anglické fórum, tak prosím piš Anglicky. Odpověď máš v soukromé zprávě.

[DIMI44]

Answered in PM.

Tohle je anglické fórum, tak prosím piš Anglicky. Odpověď máš v soukromé zprávě.

Σωστα!!!!!! :rotflmao:

[rage82]

Quick question. Is this rally now good for 2013 to access most of the stages in the day?

Which city/town is the best to stay in over the rally? Nice? Then easy access to drive/park close to stages and walk the rest of the way? Even being media?...

I'm extremely keen to head over! Just one phone call and i'm there! =D
We have stayed in Nice for this year Monte Carlo. We missed the first two days, and on Friday we travelled about 300 km north to see Cimetière de Vassieux – Col de Gaudissart (http://www.rallye-sport.fr/es12-mc-2012/) and Montauban sur Ouvèze-Eygalayes (http://www.rallye-sport.fr/es13-mc-2012/) stages. It was a long way definately but we were prepared for that and was a good oppurtunity to see the beatiful landscape. Of course staying near Valence is much better. For saturday and sunday stages Nice is very good located it's about 30 km to Col de Turini and Lantosque- Luceram stages. It's also close at about 20 min. to Monte Carlo where is the service park and the prize giving ceremony.

PS. And of course the closest airport to Monte Carlo is Nice international airport

[Kielder]

Last year's stages don't change too much, but 2013 maps are now available: ACM - Automobile Club de Monaco (http://www.acm.mc/page-tab.php?id_menu=4&id_sousmenu=23)

The poster was also published:

http://i49.tinypic.com/2qa06jr.jpg

I miss some snow in it. It will be enough if it appears on the roads.

[RICARDO75]

Last year's stages don't change too much, but 2013 maps are now available: ACM - Automobile Club de Monaco (http://www.acm.mc/page-tab.php?id_menu=4&id_sousmenu=23)

The poster was also published:

http://i49.tinypic.com/2qa06jr.jpg

I miss some snow in it. It will be enough if it appears on the roads.


I think those maps are from 2012

[Mirek]

Maps are from 2013 although placed under ACCUEIL > RALLYE MONTE-CARLO > ÉDITION 2012

[Mintexmemory]

Maps are from 2013 although placed under ACCUEIL > RALLYE MONTE-CARLO > ÉDITION 2012
How very well organised 2012 maps in the current edition and 2013 maps in the 2012 edition. Only the Google map too as far as I can see, there is nothing on the PDF when I download (or is it me!)

[Kielder]

How very well organised 2012 maps in the current edition and 2013 maps in the 2012 edition. Only the Google map too as far as I can see, there is nothing on the PDF when I download (or is it me!)

You have to click on the link I posted above and then on "ITINERAIRES/CARTES". After that if you move the sidebar down you'll find all the 2013 pdf maps there (click on the pluses for each day).

[Allyc85]

I want to go, soooo much! Where is that money tree?!

[pettersolberg29]

Wanted desperately to go this year, but unfortunately stuff has got in the way. Definitely going for 2014. If anyone from SE England is thinking about preparing for a trip in 2014 let me know and we'll start arranging!

[Mintexmemory]

Wanted desperately to go this year, but unfortunately stuff has got in the way. Definitely going for 2014. If anyone from SE England is thinking about preparing for a trip in 2014 let me know and we'll start arranging!
Definitely up for it if you think you can put up with Victor Meldrew the second and if Ally and his mate were in then we have the ideal economic unit - Budget of £230 pp for flight accom and car hire could be done this year, so I imagine it won't be too different next year and the euro is due to keep dropping!. Probably another £100 each for food and petrol

[Tom206wrc]

If you have infos about first entries/rumours... ;)

[PLuto]

I was on Monte Carlo many times since 2004, I was not missing since 2009. But after disappointment with this year edition (especially with comparison to IRC) I am afraid that our whole group will stay at home in 2014...

[Mirek]

Dear French friends, are there some onboards from stages Sisteron - Thoard and La Motte Chalancon - Saint Nazaire le Desert? Could be even reversed. I think the first one was not run for quite a long time but the second was used even in 2009 if I remember.

[DonJippo]

I was on Monte Carlo many times since 2004, I was not missing since 2009. But after disappointment with this year edition (especially with comparison to IRC) I am afraid that our whole group will stay at home in 2014...

Ok but what is your plans for 2013?


:p

[PLuto]

For sure will will stay home also in 2013 :)

[go mads]

hi guys, going to monte for the first time, as going with the non rally loving wife will probably just end up on the stages saturday only.always fancied col de turini, can anyone tell me how good veiwing actually is up there and is moving around to other parts of the stage possible either on foot or by car as standing in the same place for 3 passes does not appeal to me. also how far in time does it take to reach from monaco by small hire car.if anyone can help me on this or anything else i should be aware of it would be appreciated.thanks.

[Mirek]

In fact there's not much to see on Turini unless it's on snow. Last year they also moved spectators farther from the road. I was on Turini in 2009-2011 and always enjoyed it a lot thanks to great atmosphere over there (especially 2009, 2010 when they came to Turini from Peira Cava). Last year we went to Col St. Roch on stage Lantosque-Lucerám and I have to say that by pure rally spectacle that place is much better than Turini and the atmosphere is not much worse. From one place You can see up to three downhill hairpins with plenty of possible viewing places.

For both Col de Turini and Col St. Roch it's same with moving on stage. Directly at the spot there are tons of strict gendarmerie and marshals but when You pass them You are free to walk and stand wherever You want.

I'm not sure if I remember right but I think the drive from Monaco may take one hour. Anyway start early for both of these places! They are very crowded and You may get stuck kilometers from the stage. I recommend You to be there 3 hours before start. You can than use the time for barbecue or watching landscape or whatever :)

By the way if You have time drive through any of these two stages. It's great experience :)

Our videos for Your better image ;)
Turini 2011 (starting at 2:10, the place before is sadly not part of 2013 edition): Rallye Monte Carlo 2011 - day 3 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITKrOvyTVEs)
Col St. Roch 2012: Rallye Monte Carlo 2012 - leg 4 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0n89TQz_sY)

[go mads]

col st roch it is then! looks great, thanks mirek.

[ZoomanSP206]

Nice videos!


Turini 2011 (starting at 2:10, the place before is sadly not part of 2013 edition)

Where is that place before 2:10?

[Mirek]

It's Col St. Jean, stage Montauban Sur L'Ouvèze - Eygalayes.

Here in 0:34 a friend's shot from 2010 when it was on snow ;)
78. Rallye Monte Carlo 2010 IRC - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFtDe8rb7zQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=34s)

[ZoomanSP206]

Thank you!

[RS]

How many live tv stages for Monte 2013 then?

[Japé]

I'd would also like to know how televisioning has been organized to this year's Monte? In couple of last years we have used to Eurosport's spectacular work, I would rather keep it on that level or better.

[Leon]

I'd would also like to know how televisioning has been organized to this year's Monte? In couple of last years we have used to Eurosport's spectacular work, I would rather keep it on that level or better.

Still too quiet from the new promoters front.......

[noel157]

When is closing date for entries and when is the deadline for WRC registration?

[RS]

This thead is dead :( No news or rumours of some entries for Monte?

It was a real "event" when it was part of IRC, now it is just another WRC round.

[Mintexmemory]

This thead is dead :( No news or rumours of some entries for Monte?

It was a real "event" when it was part of IRC, now it is just another WRC round.

Have a bit of patience, the deals are still being done. the thread was open waaaaay ttooooo early.

[dimviii]

photo from St Bonnet Le Froid

[/color][/font]http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/700042503.jpg?key=640480&Expires=1355166950&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=YIbkdD~rfBf7s7k74ujm~loSmVb~cjyrIucaJxBJ FUE3DAhYo03YVlp8quMh81-4mBVS1hyRhvR6KDmF4Uwhcu0w0rp7jDXzkwL8C~T4M3BVLY-LTs8tr1ZpsNHAuq-w50Kri-ddYDxOjoVPc8IWNKoTIYa1YoH9L80BYSN79q4_

[Wasted Talent]

When is closing date for entries and when is the deadline for WRC registration?

Entries closed 9 December.......

WT

[makinen_fan]

Entries close by the end of Friday (14th) for Monte Carlo registration.

What about the Manufacturers WRC registration? Is it the same day?

[A FONDO]

Yes

[Wasted Talent]

Entries close by the end of Friday (14th) for Monte Carlo registration.

What about the Manufacturers WRC registration? Is it the same day?

Sorry, yes you are right - entries should be published 21 Dec (subject to FIA approval)

WT

[SubaruNorway]

Henning said he had until the 18th to post his entry.

[Roy]

Henning said he had until the 18th to post his entry.

If he has time until 18 December he isn't drive in WRC but ERC. First rally of ERC has deadline 18-12-12.

[Mirek]

Late entries are always possible until the entry lists are not published/signed by FIA.

[Roy]

Late entries are always possible until the entry lists are not published/signed by FIA.
-
Yes it's possible, but the date 18-12 makes more sense to me in relation to ERC then WRC.

[SubaruNorway]

-
Yes it's possible, but the date 18-12 makes more sense to me in relation to ERC then WRC.

Definitely not ERC for Henning.

[Seppala]

Please find the interactive stage maps, itinerary, elevation profiles and 3D flights of the Rally Monte-Carlo 2013 here:



Rally Monte-Carlo 2013 - stages in google maps (http://www.rally-maps.com/country/Monaco/rally/51/Rally-Monte-Carlo) [/*:m:mm5db04j]
Rally Monte-Carlo 2013 - 3D stage tour (http://www.rally-maps.com/country/Monaco/rally/420/Rally-Monte-Carlo/3D-Tour) [/*:m:mm5db04j]


http://www.rally-maps.com/img/Rally-Monte-Carlo-2013-map.jpg (http://www.rally-maps.com/country/Monaco/rally/51/Rally-Monte-Carlo)

[Tom206wrc]

Can't wait for the 21st to see that entrylist :bounce:

[Tom206wrc]

No François Delecour in Monte-Carlo then ??? :(

[Mirek]

No, he already confirmed himself.

[sete]

ok so what we know:
Citroen Abu Dhabi:
-Hirvonen
-Loeb
-Sordo
-Al-Quassimi ?

M-Sport WRT:
-Ostberg
-Novikov
-Neuville

Volkswagen WRT:
-Ogier
-Latvala

privateers:
-Hanninen-Fiesta WRC
-Prokop -Fiesta WRC

maybe:Bouffier-DS3 WRC
H.Solberg-Fiesta WRC
Did i forget to somebody?

[Plan9]

Has it been confirmed that no Minis will be in Monte Carlo?

[sete]

yes it was confirmed by David Richards.

[noel157]

yes it was confirmed by David Richards.

Missed that Sete, where?

[Mirek]

ok so what we know:
Citroen Abu Dhabi:
-Hirvonen
-Loeb
-Sordo
-Al-Quassimi ?

M-Sport WRT:
-Ostberg
-Novikov
-Neuville

Volkswagen WRT:
-Ogier
-Latvala

privateers:
-Hanninen-Fiesta WRC
-Prokop -Fiesta WRC

maybe:Bouffier-DS3 WRC
H.Solberg-Fiesta WRC
Did i forget to somebody?

Prokop is official DMack driver. There shall be two of them.

[sete]

Should Henning be the second D-mack driver or Tanak?

[had_zachau]

Prokop's team is called Jipocar Czech Nation Team, so I guess that not official D-mack team. And there's question if he will be register as a team.

[Kielder]

Rally Guide with hundreds of photos, comments by Gilles Panizzi.

Monte-Carlo 2013 RG (http://www.forum-rallye.com/guides/Guide%20du%20spectateur%20FR%20Complet%20-%20Monte-Carlo%202013.pdf)

[had_zachau]

Kielder: is it available english version?

[tolis]

Wiegand confirmed Rallye Monte Carlo

[Kielder]

Kielder: is it available english version?

No, I'm sorry :( .

[Mirek]

Prokop's team is called Jipocar Czech Nation Team, so I guess that not official D-mack team. And there's question if he will be register as a team.

From Prokop's press release: "We became an official DMack crew"

But obviously he will compete under his own team.

[dimviii]

Missed that Sete, where?

i missed too!! so no Nikkara?

[noel157]

i missed too!! so no Nikkara?

Sete, we need answers :)

[sete]

Sorry
my fault i have read this
Neuville a Novikov k M-Sportu, Monte bez Mini [AKTUALIZOVNO] (http://www.rally-mania.cz/news.php?id=13981)
and i automaticcaly suposed its confirmed by team boss.

[noel157]

Sorry
my fault i have read this
Neuville a Novikov k M-Sportu, Monte bez Mini [AKTUALIZOVNO] (http://www.rally-mania.cz/news.php?id=13981)
and i automaticcaly suposed its confirmed by team boss.

So, still some hope that something will happen but not looking good.

[MikeD]

From Prokop's press release: "We became an official DMack crew"

But obviously he will compete under his own team.

That looks like Autotek Motorsport has been given the boot as official D-Mack team, then? I will ask Ken Skidmore from Autotek about his views, and get back with his answer.

[Kielder]

Richard Taylor confirms that Prodrive won't be in Montecarlo. The team will now focus on Rally Sweden.

Kein Prodrive-Mini beim Auftakt*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2012/12/17/kein-prodrive-mini-beim-auftakt/index.html)

And so the story goes...

[stefanvv]

Richard Taylor confirms that Prodrive won't be in Montecarlo. The team will now focus on Rally Sweden.

Kein Prodrive-Mini beim Auftakt*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2012/12/17/kein-prodrive-mini-beim-auftakt/index.html)

And so the story goes...

That's a pity, I thought they wanted to win it though :D

[RAS007]

Rally Guide with hundreds of photos, comments by Gilles Panizzi.

Monte-Carlo 2013 RG (http://www.forum-rallye.com/guides/Guide%20du%20spectateur%20FR%20Complet%20-%20Monte-Carlo%202013.pdf)

Is Gilles giving us the inside track on the best methods for an illegal recce?

[tommeke_B]

Is Gilles giving us the inside track on the best methods for an illegal recce?
Many drivers could do that, more than you think... ;)

[A FONDO]

Is Gilles giving us the inside track on the best methods for an illegal recce?

Illegal recce is not a big deal anyway. Driving a normal car with normal speed on the right lane only can't help you adjust the speed and handling of the car in SS pace, especially at Monte where conditions can change drastically for a few days. It only gives you some confidence in the notes.

[mousti]

Some don't do Illigal Recce at normal speed..

[Bartolbia84]

Alex Re - DS3 R3t
Andrea Crugnola - DS3 R3t
Lorenzo Bertelli - Subaru N4
Al Ketbi - Fiesta RRC

[Coach 2]

Illegal recce is not a big deal anyway. Driving a normal car with normal speed on the right lane only can't help you adjust the speed and handling of the car in SS pace, especially at Monte where conditions can change drastically for a few days. It only gives you some confidence in the notes.

Must say I disagree with this Slowson. The most important factor to run fast are the quality of your pace notes. You can not drive faster than your pace notes allows. To run fast with great accuracy is impossible with bad notes, ask Novikov.
Most newcomers to the WRC level, experience this.

[A FONDO]

The most important factor to run fast are
your abilities. If you can't drive, notes can't do the job for you. If we put a top driver on the road from your home to your work, will he be slower than you?

[stefanvv]

Acuracy is a matter of perspective. Colin McRae used to say he has been always keen to do one more gear up. I guess that's where his crashes came from, but also wins. The perfect notes has to be according to the driver's preference, not the other way around.

[Coach 2]

your abilities. If you can't drive, notes can't do the job for you. If we put a top driver on the road from your home to your work, will he be slower than you?

The discussion started with Panizzi, and he is / was probably a good driver, or. Why did he do illegal recce then?

[Nornbugger]

your abilities. If you can't drive, notes can't do the job for you. If we put a top driver on the road from your home to your work, will he be slower than you?

ability to drive to notes is a huge factor in rallying, illegal recce at any speed helps with road familiarity and ultimately speed. Do you really think Kimi lacks skill steering a car? It was driving to notes held him back.

ps, home to work, 25 yard walk, I'd be there before Loeb had his belts done...

[A FONDO]

ability to drive to notes is a huge factor in rallying,
Sure it is, where I said the opposite?


illegal recce at any speed helps with road familiarity and ultimately speed.

That's what I said in my first post, I didnt deny it helps a little.

Yes Kimi was slower than the factory boys, but he was faster than Matthew and Henning in some events they had done several times before, wasn't he? And his problem was actually he couldnt listen to notes AT ALL, not that they were poor.

[Kielder]

Al-Ketbi's livery:

http://i46.tinypic.com/el8zll.jpg

[Bartolbia84]

Al-Ketbi's livery:

http://i46.tinypic.com/el8zll.jpg

that races run Al-Ketbi?

[Kielder]

that races run Al-Ketbi?

He'll do ten rallies in WRC-2. It's supposed the European ones.

[Sami]

Do you really think Kimi lacks skill steering a car? It was driving to notes held him back.



If that were true Kimi would have been faster on stages run second time. He wasn't.

Drivers ability to drive fast, control the car, to drive on the limit matters most.

Notes are important, and many drivers tend to do the notes to pick the most difficult spots from the route. Notes are not for avoiding crashes but for gaining speed. Every corner should be driven to its maximum. That is why notes are important.

But their importance is still exaggerated as their role typically in cases of accidents. Note error is really seldom the cause for an accident.

I'd say 98% driving skills, 2% notes.One proof of that are those rallies that are driven with organizers notes. The same drivers succeed in them than in recce rallies. (but actually not in totally blind rallies, but that is subject to another story)

[alleskids]

Al-Ketbi's livery:

http://i46.tinypic.com/el8zll.jpg

it looks like Dracula is his codriver :(

[tommeke_B]

Looking forward to see his face at the end of a long stage in Greece when the sun is burning on the roof while it's over 30°C outside... :D

[mm1]

He should cope better than most :)

[rallyfiend]

He'll do ten rallies in WRC-2. It's supposed the European ones.

Isn't that a WRC car?

Has the WRC rear wing.

[Adler]

Isn't that a WRC car?

Has the WRC rear wing.
according number plate it´s ex-oliveira car, so maybe it´s not reconverted to RRC yet? .....btw: does that mean no WRC program for Oliveira?

[mm1]

It`s not Olivera`s car, it`s Stohl`s car.

[rallyfiend]

It`s not Olivera`s car, it`s Stohl`s car.

Isn't that one and the same?

Oliviera ran in a Stohl Racing car?

[Adler]

Isn't that one and the same?

Oliviera ran in a Stohl Racing car?
yes, true, I was just thinking that might be the reason why it´s still in WRC layout....

[Tom206wrc]

80 entries(11 WRC included)to date... ;)
Info from a french forum...

[pantealex]

80 entries(11 WRC included)to date... ;)
Info from a french forum...
Citroen: Loeb, Hirvonen, Sordo = 3
VW: Ogier, Latvala = 2
Ford: Östberg, Neuville, Novikov, Hänninen, Prokop = 5
=10
so who is 11 ?
Bouffier?

[tommeke_B]

I would say Maurin. ;)

[EightGear]

11? Wow.

[pantealex]

I would say Maurin. ;)
or Benito Guerra with MINI

[dupanton]

Must be Bouffier then, as I read it, it was almost certain he was going to be there...
Alltough some other French guy is a possibility to, Maurin, Roche...
I don't think Guerra wil be there. I bet it is not his favorite rally ;)

[Co-FIN]

..

[Bartek]

Bouffier, he said that he has great info about Monte ;)

[Josti]

Any Monte plans for Chardonnet?

[JieM]

DS3 R3 normally.

[Mad cat jnr]

I'd say Maurin was RRC as he uses it in that spec for French events

[dupanton]

I'd say Maurin was RRC as he uses it in that spec for French events

But he did Monte last year with a WRC i think...

[mousti]

Maurin doesn't use his Fiesta in RRC spec.. He always drove it as a WRC and before that he drove with the Fiesta S2000.

[Mad cat jnr]

Didnt think WRC spec was allowed to be used outside of WRC?

[RAS007]

Must be Bouffier then, as I read it, it was almost certain he was going to be there...
Alltough some other French guy is a possibility to, Maurin, Roche...
I don't think Guerra wil be there. I bet it is not his favorite rally ;)

So Bouffier is doing MC and Janner? Is he doing selected rounds of WRC and ERC?

[mousti]

Some national championships don't allow WRC's (2.0 and 1.6) but those who does allow them have the 1.6 WRC spec also allowed. Here in Belgium we had Snijers driving the Mini WRC, in France Roche with Mini and Maurin with Fiesta and there's an ongoing list in different countries. DS3 WRC's who have driven outside of WRC were never of clients (besides shows like Monza) I remember Loeb doing a rally in Switzerland and some pre test events of Hirvonen, Neuville and Chardonnet.

[dupanton]

So Bouffier is doing MC and Janner? Is he doing selected rounds of WRC and ERC?

Dont know. He said in an interview he was going to do Janner and probably MC. But no news on the rest of his plans yet. Probably mostly testwork with the 208 R5 and maybe some rallies with it in the second half of the year (this is just my guess :) )

[Prisoner Monkeys]

btw: does that mean no WRC program for Oliveira?
When did we start caring about Oliveira?

[SubaruNorway]

Didnt think WRC spec was allowed to be used outside of WRC?

Here in Norway you can use old and new WRC cars but there is no championship for them.

[Adler]

When did we start caring about Oliveira?
1. Since I met him at a test and noticed he is a nice and open minded guy.
2. Since I prefer WRC rallyes with 20 WR-Cars than WRC rallyes with 10 WR-Cars.

[Iskald]

Well you are so wrong that if you that notes count only 2%? Have you driving or co-driving rallys with pacenotes? Just interested. I'd say more like 5-15% depending of the road nature. And Kimi drove similiar times with factory drivers in tests.

In easy places you can go even in blind rallys flatout, but in very tricky road combined to high speed and bumps the notes start to matter. And even if someone makes you the notes, that still doesnt matter because in the stages you dont have time to think when you here the notes. You just have to act and improvise. This is the problem in fast tecnical road, people here lots of notes but cant simplify them in their head. To understand notes really takes a lot of work and i know that Kimi didnt go out to do notes if he had freetime. Top drivers had to do the work, when they started rallying.

When stages are done twice, you will only memorise some places, its not like you memorize it completely. But top guys drive about the same time in test stages in 1-4 runs. Those who doesnt understand the notes so well get close to top guys runs in fourth run etc.

This is my view from co-driving over 50 events.

I`m not neccesarily agreeing with Samis estimate when it comes to what percentage pacenotes count in rallying, it seems to be a bit on the low side when he estimates only 2%. But that said, it borders on the comical when you Co-FIN, rises to the task of "learning" Sami about rallying and notes. There are actually very few forumers here with more extensive rallying experience, as a driver, than Sami.

So keep on discussing the importance of pacenotes, but take care not to sound like a schoolteacher. It ends up with you being the kindergarten assistand trying to teach the professor.
Btw. This is my view after codriving something like 250 rallies (and driving a handful) during 30 odd years... ;-)

[Kielder]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76PTICwwpMA&feature=player_embedded

[Mirek]

I`m not neccesarily agreeing with Samis estimate when it comes to what percentage pacenotes count in rallying, it seems to be a bit on the low side when he estimates only 2%. But that said, it borders on the comical when you Co-FIN, rises to the task of "learning" Sami about rallying and notes. There are actually very few forumers here with more extensive rallying experience, as a driver, than Sami.

So keep on discussing the importance of pacenotes, but take care not to sound like a schoolteacher. It ends up with you being the kindergarten assistand trying to teach the professor.
Btw. This is my view after codriving something like 250 rallies (and driving a handful) during 30 odd years... ;-)

I would say Henning, that it also very much depends on road nature. Our Czech rallies are simple for memorizing. A lot of different things around them, many different kinds of asphalt, not many corners etc. But when You drive Ypres kind of road in a high corn where there is totally no logic in the shape of turns You are lost without pacenotes. All corners and junctions look totally same and from the terrain You can't estimate where the road is going unlike in mountains for example. Also I would say pacenotes shall be more important for asphalt mountain rallies where optimal lines, tyre and brake overheating plays significant role - like for Corsica for example.

[Sami]

I`m not neccesarily agreeing with Samis estimate when it comes to what percentage pacenotes count in rallying, it seems to be a bit on the low side when he estimates only 2%. But that said, it borders on the comical when you Co-FIN, rises to the task of "learning" Sami about rallying and notes. There are actually very few forumers here with more extensive rallying experience, as a driver, than Sami.

So keep on discussing the importance of pacenotes, but take care not to sound like a schoolteacher. It ends up with you being the kindergarten assistand trying to teach the professor.
Btw. This is my view after codriving something like 250 rallies (and driving a handful) during 30 odd years... ;-)

Thank your Iskald for the (unnecessary) backup.

I was of course a bit provocative with my 2% estimation, but if you read my post carefully, you'll find my evaluation of pacenotes' importance. There's several cases of drivers that have been extremely fast on blind rallies but being unable to carry that speed to rallies with pacenotes. Driving with pacenotes requires many different features that a driver either has or has not. But still, my point was that a slow driver can't become fast with perfect pacenotes, that is what I was trying to emphasise.

Im happy with Co-FIN teaching me about rallying, he is a respected codriver and I have got a lot to learn from him as well as from many others in this forum. That is why I like the forum so much.

Iskald described my experience in rallying as extensive. I would rather say intensive. Rallying is a hobby for me. It is serious, extremely serious, but its a hobby.

More than that, it is a passion, it makes me who I am. Rallying has for me a deep psychological meaning, the risks, the speed, the control of the uncontrollable, the ultimate challenge, the will to win, the self-examination, the emotions, all that is happening to its extreme. I would rather describe myself as a adventurer searching for experiences than a sportsman in rallying.

Somehow I could say that I regard rallying for me as a psycho-neurotic tendency, I rally not just for sport but to find refuge from the inner torment that frames my existence. It is a psychological experiment that defines me being me every time I am priviledged to drive. Every time I give it all I got. And I have given it my money and my health, and still think that it has been a bargain!

In this respect, it is perfectly suitable that Co-FIN teaches me about the sport aspect of rallying and I welcome and look forward to the discussion with him and others.

Sami

[Tom206wrc]

Swiss drivers Olivier Burri and Pascal Perroud in 207 S2000s from OffShore Limited team in Monte ;)
I guess Oliver's son will be in DS3 R3 :confused:

Renaud Poutot found an agreement to drive Sainteloc's DS3 R3 as he wants to win 2WDs :p :

[Rasantes]

Bouffier - Citroen DS3 WRC PH Sport

[Tom206wrc]

Franck Sias possibly on the new 208 R2 in Monte :)

[bluuford]

WR Cars for Monte:
1. Loeb DS3 WRC
2. Hirvonen DS3 WRC
3. Sordo DS3 WRC
4. Bouffier DS3 WRC
5. Ostberg Fiesta WRC
6. Novikov Fiesta WRC
7. Neuville Fiesta WRC
8. Hänninen Fiesta WRC
9. Prokop Fiesta WRC
10. Latvala Polo WRC
11. Ogier Polo WRC

That is all?

[alleskids]

Abu Dhabi Citroen WRT will enter all rallies, even if Khalid Al Qassimi only does 8 rounds. Will Bouffier enter under the Abu Dhabi banner?

[EightGear]

WR Cars for Monte:
1. Loeb DS3 WRC
2. Hirvonen DS3 WRC
3. Sordo DS3 WRC
4. Bouffier DS3 WRC
5. Ostberg Fiesta WRC
6. Novikov Fiesta WRC
7. Neuville Fiesta WRC
8. Hänninen Fiesta WRC
9. Prokop Fiesta WRC
10. Latvala Polo WRC
11. Ogier Polo WRC

That is all?

I hope not. Just 11 WRC's and no Rally 2...

[pantealex]

Abu Dhabi Citroen WRT will enter all rallies, even if Khalid Al Qassimi only does 8 rounds. Will Bouffier enter under the Abu Dhabi banner?
Sordo, because Loeb is in with Hirvonen at Official Team

[bluuford]

Citroen had a budget for 9 rallies for Neuville. So, now when Neuville changed to Ford they have basically 9 rallies budget. two of them can go to Sordo, one to Bouffier. six more left for the remaining season. But they said that Sweden is not likely for Neuville.. So.. there must be problem with logistics (next event is on the other side of the world.

[Wasted Talent]

I would say Henning, that it also very much depends on road nature. Our Czech rallies are simple for memorizing. A lot of different things around them, many different kinds of asphalt, not many corners etc. But when You drive Ypres kind of road in a high corn where there is totally no logic in the shape of turns You are lost without pacenotes. All corners and junctions look totally same and from the terrain You can't estimate where the road is going unlike in mountains for example. Also I would say pacenotes shall be more important for asphalt mountain rallies where optimal lines, tyre and brake overheating plays significant role - like for Corsica for example.

I think for an event like Ypres for most top Belgian drivers the notes are only a little vaue, as Snijers, Loix, Thiry etc will know all the stages from memory, they are usually the same each year. I agree - much more important for Corsica etc.

I think it was Mikkola who said that 9 out of 10 corners are actually quicker than you would expect - but you have to know the 1 that isn't.

WT

[dupanton]

Citroen had a budget for 9 rallies for Neuville. So, now when Neuville changed to Ford they have basically 9 rallies budget. two of them can go to Sordo, one to Bouffier. six more left for the remaining season. But they said that Sweden is not likely for Neuville.. So.. there must be problem with logistics (next event is on the other side of the world.

They always said they could only offer him 4-5 rallies. Now he has signed his contract with M-Sport, they say 7-9... Not really fair I think :)

[Co-FIN]

..

[Mirek]

I think for an event like Ypres for most top Belgian drivers the notes are only a little vaue, as Snijers, Loix, Thiry etc will know all the stages from memory, they are usually the same each year. I agree - much more important for Corsica etc.

I think it was Mikkola who said that 9 out of 10 corners are actually quicker than you would expect - but you have to know the 1 that isn't.

WT

I didn't want to go into discussion about home Belgian drivers in regard to Ypres. Unfortunately Belgium is famous for illegal recce and it was even worse in the past.

[mousti]

I think for an event like Ypres for most top Belgian drivers the notes are only a little vaue, as Snijers, Loix, Thiry etc will know all the stages from memory, they are usually the same each year. I agree - much more important for Corsica etc.

I think it was Mikkola who said that 9 out of 10 corners are actually quicker than you would expect - but you have to know the 1 that isn't.

WT
Loix his notes are for sure very precise for Ypres..

[tommeke_B]

The notes in Ypres are in fact at least as, if not more crucial than in other events. In mountain rallies or when driving in forest you have the mountains or trees to guide you. Even with big crests like in Finland you have the trees to know where you (should be) going. In Ypres everything is flat and there are no trees, and many corners look the same, the grass is often high so you can't really estimate how sharp a corner is. In some corners you must cut, in some corners you can cut, in some corners you can not cut, the asphalt changes of grip several times... If you don't have good notes, you're out. And yes, drivers as Snijers and Loix know the stages more, but the stages change 30% every year for the last few years (next year also), you can't remember everything.

[stefanvv]

... Even with big crests like in Finland you have the trees to know where you (should be) going...

This can be illusive sometimes, ask Atkinson :)

[Mintexmemory]

you can't remember everything.

Actually some of the best guys can! Vic Elford was reknowned for his photographic memory, once he'd driven a stage he 'knew' it. He memorised every bend on the Picolo Madonie circuit of the Targa Florio. I'm sure that those that have this ability don't publicise the fact or there would be attempts to change the stage routes every edition.

[EightGear]

I think all top drivers back in the day knew all corners of the Targa Florio..

[Mirek]

Didn't they drive it again and again weeks before the race start?

[Mintexmemory]

Didn't they drive it again and again weeks before the race start?

Just during the week before and then in standard road cars, as they had full schedules in those days, Elford driving F1, Sports Prototypes, Saloons and Rallies in 68, dropping the rallying in 69. Only the locals knew it really well (Vaccarella) but the other top Sportscar drivers were mixed in their ability to remember (or otherwise) EACH bend - Brian Redman is very entertaining on the subject.

[EightGear]

Kosciuszko will he there with a MINI.

[pantealex]

Kosciuszko will he there with a MINI.
WRC or WRC-2 (S2000 1.6T)

[EightGear]

WRC or WRC-2 (S2000 1.6T)

WRC. Source is from photographer Colin McMaster's twitter.

[PLuto]

Tomas Kostka will start with Skoda Fabia S2000.

[mousti]

WRC. Source is from photographer Colin McMaster's twitter.

Yep just posted it on our page, and his Co confirmed it then :)

[EightGear]

Yep just posted it on our page, and his Co confirmed it then :)

Nice. And he already had a test?

http://www.imgdumper.nl/uploads6/50d36eea64428/50d36eea555e2-kosziuszko.jpg

[Tom206wrc]

Franck Sias possibly on the new 208 R2 in Monte :)


Finally it'll be Clio R3 from Chazel team :mark:

[mousti]

Mini WRC comes from Motorsport Italia apparantely..

Maurin also starting with the Fiesta WRC like some already thought.

[tolis]

Tomas Kostka will start with Skoda Fabia S2000.
Will he be eligible for WRC-2 points?

[EightGear]

Everybody is eligible, no registration needed I thought.

[pucky54]

Everybody is eligible, no registration needed I thought.

No, you have to nominate the event to take points

[EightGear]

No, you have to nominate the event to take points

Ok thanks. :) In that case, ignore my last post. ;)

[PLuto]

I think he will be eligible. Entry fee for 2000 euro is not so much...

[Kielder]

84 crews at the entry list, 13 with a WRC. These are supposed to be the WRC drivers:

DS3 WRC: Loeb, Hirvonen, Sordo, Bouffier.
Fiesta WRC: Ostberg, Novikov, Neuville, Hanninen, Prokop, Maurin.
Polo WRC: Ogier, Latvala.
Mini WRC: Kosciuzsko.

[Kielder]

Provisional entry list: http://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Liste-des-engages-Monte-Carlo-20131.pdf

[alleskids]

Juha Hanninen (!) and Neuville for Qatar WRT. nice :)

[bluuford]

I am ultra happy to see Bouffier and Hänninen in MC, both behind the wheel of very compeditive WRCars :-)

[donlorean]

EP Lappi also there... Nice...

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Who is Bruno di Pianto?

[tolis]

Who is Bruno di Pianto?
Motorsport Italia's boss!

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Yeah, I literally just Googled his name. So I'm guessing Kosciuszko is using an ex-Portugal Mini, then.

[tolis]

Yeah, I literally just Googled his name. So I'm guessing Kosciuszko is using an ex-Portugal Mini, then.
yes!

[Barreis]

Only good thing about entries is Ogier in WRC car. Could be nice Loeb/Ogier fight. Sordo never won beside Loeb so it will hardly happen this time.

[Frostmourne]

The question is, will Citroen favor Loeb over Hirvonen for the 1st place in MC? or they wont care about driver's champioship this year as Loeb out of the picture and they will focus on Manufacturers Champioship?

[Barreis]

Loeb is their brand so Hirvonen will never win in 1-2 formation.

[pantealex]

The question is, will Citroen favor Loeb over Hirvonen for the 1st place in MC? or they wont care about driver's champioship this year as Loeb out of the picture and they will focus on Manufacturers Champioship?
They want Citroen to win. MC is 1 event in season, so they don´t favor any driver. Loeb will be much quicker than anybody else in MC.

[Frostmourne]

On other note, after last year problem with Mini's Portugal WRT (switching from Ar Ar to Chris Atkinson) I wonder why did not Bruno De Pianto give that seat to Chris? He had very good results in the last 5 events he took part with Mini?? and I think Chris got much more experience in WRC than Michał Kościuszko, or is it money thingy again!!!

[MikeD]

On other note, after last year problem with Mini's Portugal WRT (switching from Ar Ar to Chris Atkinson) I wonder why did not Bruno De Pianto give that seat to Chris? He had very good results in the last 5 events he took part with Mini?? and I think Chris got much more experience in WRC than Michał Kościuszko, or is it money thingy again!!!



It's because Kościuszko has the LOTOS DYNAMIC sponsorship and Chris Atkinson have few or no sponsors ... so of course it's the money thing (It has always been the case in motorsport)

[Mirek]

And there is also a question if Chris wants to continue with MI Mini. I wouldn't be surprised if not.

[EightGear]

If I'm not mistaken, Monte Carlo will be the first rally with at least 4 different brands of World rally cars since Germany 2010.

[PLuto]

Only good thing about entries is Ogier in WRC car. Could be nice Loeb/Ogier fight. Sordo never won beside Loeb so it will hardly happen this time.

In his Citroen era Dani was not allowed to win against Loeb...

[Prisoner Monkeys]

And there is also a question if Chris wants to continue with MI Mini. I wouldn't be surprised if not.
He'd probably need to secure sponsors, and sponsors are hard to come by in Australia. Even for the Asia-Pacific Champion.

There's also the question of how long this effort from di Pianto will last. They're obviously using last year's Mini Portugal cars, and the entry was made under di Pianto's name, which suggests to me that they're taking this one round at a time. Atkinson would probably be better off trying to get the Prodrive gig - they were running the Imprezas when he competed full-time from 2005 to 2008, so they know him. And he knows the Mini, having driven it last year. He might be a good replacement for Dani Sordo.

[Frostmourne]

Yes, I hope Prodrive sign Chris to drive one of their Mini's. From all drivers who drove Mini's JCW last season, he got the best results, even better than Sordo! And if I not mistaken he got some good results with Subaru Impreza 2008 season, which many sees it as really bad car!

[Mirek]

Yes, I hope Prodrive sign Chris to drive one of their Mini's. From all drivers who drove Mini's JCW last season, he got the best results, even better than Sordo! And if I not mistaken he got some good results with Subaru Impreza 2008 season, which many sees it as really bad car!

Have a look in the results and stage times again.

[Rallying UK]

SNOWMAN: France's Jean Michel Raoux will drive Jännerrallye (Peugeot 207 S2000) AND Rallye Monte-Carlo (Peugeot 207 S2000 or Citroën DS3 R3)

[Frostmourne]

Have a look in the results and stage times again.

mm Ok, I am comparing final results of WRC events in 2012 between Sordo and Atkinson when both were driving Mini JCW
Germany: Sordo 9th position, Atkinson 5th position
France: Sordo Ret, Atkinson 8th
Spain: Sordo 9th, Atkinson 7th

Ok, I did not compare stage times, as to me no matter how you fast are you if you keep Retting at the rally, we all know that JML is faster than Hirvonen, but in the end Hirvonen always on higher position than Jari in the championship table.

or am I missing something?


Edit: Ok after checking the stage times, yes Sordo is faster than Atkinson, and Sordo had in Germany and France porblems that made him behind Atkinson... my apologies.

[Barreis]

So on what leg will Latvala retire this year?

[stefanvv]

So on what leg will Latvala retire this year?

I bet on 6th :D

[pucky54]

SNOWMAN: France's Jean Michel Raoux will drive Jännerrallye (Peugeot 207 S2000) AND Rallye Monte-Carlo (Peugeot 207 S2000 or Citroën DS3 R3)

With team Sainteloc?

[RS]

So on what leg will Latvala retire this year?

I think he will take Monte cautious as he won't want to crash on his first event with VW. I expect him to turn up the speed for Sweden though.

[ToughMac]

No pressure with Latvala for the Monte this year. He doesn't need to prove himself so he might just keep the car on the road.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Yes, I hope Prodrive sign Chris to drive one of their Mini's. From all drivers who drove Mini's JCW last season, he got the best results, even better than Sordo! And if I not mistaken he got some good results with Subaru Impreza 2008 season, which many sees it as really bad car!
With Prodrive needing sponsors, you'd think they'd sign up DMACK as a major or even a title sponsor; right now, DMACK is limited to minor branding on Martin Prokop's car. That would give them a) money, b) a long-term partnership with a sponsor, and c) the freedom to sign up at least one driver irrespective of his budget.

[MikeD]

Have you all noticed in that provisional entry-list that it looks as if both the Citroën and Ford team have split up both their teams into a factory "Full-season" Team and an M2/MT team

Citroën Total Abu Dhabi WRT:
S.Loeb
M.Hirvonen

Abu Dhabi Citroën Total WRT:
D.Sordo
K.Al Qassimi

Qatar M-Sport WRT:
M.Østberg
E.Novikov

Qatar WRT:
T.Neuville
J.Hänninen
N.Al-Attiyah

[jbmarcus21]

/!\ Google Earth Map Rallye Monte Carlo 2013 is now out !!!!!!
Wrc Rallye Monte-Carlo 2013 (http://planetemarcus.com/saison-wrc/monte-carlo-2013/)

[GigiGalliNo1]

Good job!

[denkimi]

No pressure with Latvala for the Monte this year. He doesn't need to prove himself so he might just keep the car on the road.
but he will have to try and keep up with ogier, which will probably put more pressure on him than in previous years.

[RS]

but he will have to try and keep up with ogier, which will probably put more pressure on him than in previous years.

This is an interesting point. He >>might<< have a faster car this year, but on the other hand he will have a faster team mate too.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Stop me if this is a silly question, but when was the last time the St. Nazaire le Desert—La Motte Chalancon and Sisteron—Thoard stages were used in the rally, if they have ever been used in the past?

[Mitch555]

Stop me if this is a silly question, but when was the last time the St. Nazaire le Desert—La Motte Chalancon and Sisteron—Thoard stages were used in the rally, if they have ever been used in the past?

Sisteron-Thoard was used last used in 2002 I believe. I have never heard of St Nazaire!

[wwbroe]

Stop me if this is a silly question, but when was the last time the St. Nazaire le Desert—La Motte Chalancon and Sisteron—Thoard stages were used in the rally, if they have ever been used in the past?

They have been used for sure in the past, i have been on both stage's before during Monte Carlo rally, but i don't remember exactly wich years that was. ;)

[Mintexmemory]

If JML has learned anything from last year then he should be happy to be first of the 'inheritors' ahead of Mikko - not sure that's in his DNA. However if SO has learned anything then he won't be at stupid speed before assessing the polo's performance in the rally conditions. Hanninen is the. Wildcard as he is looking to impress and has a car that is a known quantity.

[Kielder]

La Motte Chalancon - St. Nazaire le Désert (so running in the opposite direction) was used in 2009. It was one of the stages which weren't broadcasted live.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Sisteron-Thoard was used last used in 2002 I believe.
I always like it when old stages are revived. I thought the 2011 Wales Rally GB had a fantastic route, simply because stages that had not been used in years were brought back to life with the round of rally cars. Unfortunately, the organisers decided to drop them again for 2012 and replace them with sratges that were uninspiring by comparison. But then, every decision that was made for the 2012 event seemed to start by asking the question "How can we take what works and make it worse for no reason at all?" ...

[Josti]

Stop me if this is a silly question, but when was the last time the St. Nazaire le Desert—La Motte Chalancon and Sisteron—Thoard stages were used in the rally, if they have ever been used in the past?

Both have been used at least since the 70´s and 80´s, so quite famous Monte stages.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

I know they're famous; I was just wondering when they were last used.

[HarriK]

found this one:
WRC 2013 Rally Monte Carlo SS 13:Sisteron/Thoard route preview. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPaWxk4nNTU)

is there any old in-cars from sisteron?

[Mirek]

I asked in this thread about some onboard from St. Nazaire le Desert—La Motte Chalancon few pages back and it seems nobody knows although I'm sure I saw it in 2009. I can't find it now. If I remember right it was someone with Clio S1600...

[Mirek]

found this one:
WRC 2013 Rally Monte Carlo SS 13:Sisteron/Thoard route preview. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPaWxk4nNTU)

is there any old in-cars from sisteron?

By the way Sisteron itself is incredible place. Everyone who goes there make yourself some time to stop in the town!

[vino_93]

when will be published the official entry list ? :confused:

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Knowing the ACM, I'd say it will probably be published in about a month.

[tolis]

Published: http://www.rallylink.it/pdf/2012/monte_2013.pdf

[pantealex]

Published: http://www.rallylink.it/pdf/2012/monte_2013.pdf
so, 6 M and 4 T = 10 cars driving for "manu" points
Prokop, Bouffier and Maurin are "outsiders"

[Mirek]

3 competitors in WRC3...

[Barreis]

Nice entry list. But for MC are almost always nice entries. Will see on other rallies if it will be 40 cars...

[PLuto]

Nice entry list. But for MC are almost always nice entries. Will see on other rallies if it will be 40 cars...

I must say that I am little bit disappointed by entry list... No Mini, no Solberg, no Delecour, no Tanak, no Andersson, no Atkinson, no Campana... ...and no Nobre. Interviews in finish of stages will be boring :)

[tommeke_B]

At least there will be no football-talk. :)

[dupanton]

I must say that I am little bit disappointed by entry list... No Mini, no Solberg, no Delecour, no Tanak, no Andersson, no Atkinson, no Campana... ...and no Nobre. Interviews in finish of stages will be boring :)

Kosciuszko is driving a Mini...

[PLuto]

I was thinking if I should write "fast Mini" or "Prodrive". Yes, Kosciuszko is there, but he will not be fast :)

[Barreis]

Meant about quantity.:P

[Frostmourne]

in the pdf file it says at the bottom T:Team Manufacturer.. like Sordo and Hanninen...are they gonna be scoring points for their team in the manufacturer championship?

[Teme]

in the pdf file it says at the bottom T:Team Manufacturer.. like Sordo and Hanninen...are they gonna be scoring points for their team in the manufacturer championship?

Yes, just like Adapta and Qatar WRT last year for example.

[dimviii]

No Nikara.. :(

[tommeke_B]

No Nikara.. :(
I heard he lost a bet... :D

No, serious, it's a pitty he's not driving, let's hope we can see him in Sweden. :)

[PLuto]

I didnt believed in his (Nikara) start on Monte. He has no money to do it, especially with WRC car.

[bluuford]

Is there anyone who can explain me the menaing of "P - Promotion?" Why some P - drivers have numbers between WRC2 and WRC3?

[mousti]

I must say that I am little bit disappointed by entry list... No Mini, no Solberg, no Delecour, no Tanak, no Andersson, no Atkinson, no Campana... ...and no Nobre. Interviews in finish of stages will be boring :)
Seems Bouffier still needs 15% of the budget for the DS3 WRC..

[alleskids]

in the pdf file it says at the bottom T:Team Manufacturer.. like Sordo and Hanninen...are they gonna be scoring points for their team in the manufacturer championship?

Abu Dhabi Citroen WRT will run for the manufacturer championship with Al Qassimi (8 rallies) and other drivers for the other 5 rounds, like Sordo in Monte Carlo.
Qatar WRT will run also for the manufacturer championship with Neuville (13 rallies) and Al Attiyah, who will do 7 rallies, so there is room for replacement drivers at Qatar WRT Ford.

Citroen has M1 (Citroen Total Abu Dhabi) and a M2 (Abu Dhabi Citroen) team, Ford also has a M1 (Qatar M-Sport WRT) and a M2 (Qatar WRT)

[Frostmourne]

Abu Dhabi Citroen WRT will run for the manufacturer championship with Al Qassimi (8 rallies) and other drivers for the other 5 rounds, like Sordo in Monte Carlo.
Qatar WRT will run also for the manufacturer championship with Neuville (13 rallies) and Al Attiyah, who will do 7 rallies, so there is room for replacement drivers at Qatar WRT Ford.

Citroen has M1 (Citroen Total Abu Dhabi) and a M2 (Abu Dhabi Citroen) team, Ford also has a M1 (Qatar M-Sport WRT) and a M2 (Qatar WRT)

Ok, but just to be sure, M2 for Citroen and M2 for Ford will be scoring points for 7 rounds only, as they are registered as "teams" right?

[rallyfiend]

So, it seems Ford have stuck their hand in their pocket and registered for the Championship. That's great news for WRC. Still 3 manufacturers involved.

No matter how you spin it, this couldn't happen without Ford's involvement - so they still have an interest. It's not all doom and gloom. Perhaps the 'withdrawal from title sponsorship' was purely just a political ploy to get them through the period of redundancies and factory closures.

[dupanton]

So, it seems Ford have stuck their hand in their pocket and registered for the Championship. That's great news for WRC. Still 3 manufacturers involved.

No matter how you spin it, this couldn't happen without Ford's involvement - so they still have an interest. It's not all doom and gloom. Perhaps the 'withdrawal from title sponsorship' was purely just a political ploy to get them through the period of redundancies and factory closures.

So, why isn't the name "Ford" in the teamname then??? They are not involved at all I think!

[Barreis]

Isn't it about 240 000€ entry fee for manufacturer?

[bluuford]

Ok, but just to be sure, M2 for Citroen and M2 for Ford will be scoring points for 7 rounds only, as they are registered as "teams" right?
No, that means at least 7 rounds. They will do all rounds, most likely. There is no point to register two teams as a manufacturers. One costs over 300 000 EUR, other costs 21 000 EUR for one car team and 42 000 Eur for 2 cars team. Only problem is the number of test days (manu gets 42 days, Team gets 15 days).

So, We have one Mini also registered as a Team. That means one Mini for at least 7 rounds.

[alleskids]

Ok, but just to be sure, M2 for Citroen and M2 for Ford will be scoring points for 7 rounds only, as they are registered as "teams" right?

edit

[alleskids]

So, We have one Mini also registered as a Team. That means one Mini for at least 7 rounds.

which Mini team is M2 registered?

[Frostmourne]

which Mini team is M2 registered?

Lotos Team WRC (ITA)


No, that means at least 7 rounds. They will do all rounds, most likely. There is no point to register two teams as a manufacturers. One costs over 300 000 EUR, other costs 21 000 EUR for one car team and 42 000 Eur for 2 cars team. Only problem is the number of test days (manu gets 42 days, Team gets 15 days).

So, We have one Mini also registered as a Team. That means one Mini for at least 7 rounds.

Well, this is what written in wikipedia "In the WRC Championship, entries registered as manufacturers must enter all thirteen rounds of the championship with a minimum of two cars. Major entries that are not registered as manufacturers must contest at least seven events – including at least one outside Europe – with a one or two-car team. These entries may only score points in a maximum of seven rounds."

Unless this is refering to something else.....I know wikipedia not very reliable source, but to me it was the only source until I found this forum :)


edit: I doubled checked it with WRC 2013 regulations pdf file. You are correct bluuford. I will edit that sentence in wikipedia :)

[alleskids]

so the startingnumbers for 2013 will be ?
1 Citroen Total Abu Dhabi WRT - Loeb
2 Citroen Total Abu Dhabi WRT - Hirvonen
3 Citroen Total Abu Dhabi WRT - Sordo
4 Qatar M-Sport WRT - Ostberg
5 Qatar M-Sport WRT - Novikov
6 Qatar WRT (M2) - Al Attiyah / or replacing drivers
7 Volkswagen Motorsport - Latvala
8 Volkswagen Motorsport - Ogier
9 Volkswagen Motorsport - Mikkelsen
10 Abu Dhabi Citroen WRT (M2) - Al Qassimi / Sordo
11Qatar WRT (M2) - Neuville
12 Lotos Team WRC (M2) - Kosciuszko

[Roy]

Maybe this?

1 Citroen Total Abu Dhabi WRT - Loeb / Sordo
2 Citroen Total Abu Dhabi WRT - Hirvonen

3 Qatar M-Sport WRT - Ostberg
4 Qatar M-Sport WRT - Novikov

5 Qatar WRT (M2) - Neuville
6 Qatar WRT (M2) - Al Attiyah / or replacing drivers (like Hänninen)

7 Volkswagen Motorsport - Latvala
8 Volkswagen Motorsport - Ogier

9 Abu Dhabi Citroen WRT (M2) - Al Qassimi / Sordo

10 Lotos Team WRC (M2) - Kosciuszko



When comes FIA with teams list?

[bluuford]

No, alleskids is almost correct.
Citroen have 1,2,3. Number 1 is used only when Loeb takes part.
Qatar M-Sport WRT has 4,5.
Qatar WRT has nr 6. Neuville joined on the very last moment and therefore he got the first available number. NR11
VW has nr 7 and 8. Mikkelsen is not part on M team, so, his number should be somewhere further behind
Abu Dhabi Citrone Total World Rally Team has nr 10
Lotos is nr 12
There will be probably one more team carring number 9 on its car

[bluuford]

Lotos Team WRC (ITA)

edit: I doubled checked it with WRC 2013 regulations pdf file. You are correct bluuford. I will edit that sentence in wikipedia :)
You are quick learner! These 96 (or smth) pages are useful reading to understand many basics in the sport called WRC ;-)
I am supervising a few students in the university and we have unwritten rule that wikipedia is not reliable source to cite in scientific research work. However, sometimes it is possible to find a few facts, names etc. as a backround information. It is very simple and quick source indeed:-)

[Teme]

Mikkelsen could be #9 if Volkswagen is going with M2 team.

[tolis]

Why Citroen didn't use #3 for Sordo in MC?

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Why Citroen didn't use #3 for Sordo in MC?
I'm guessing it has something to do with the way numbers are allocated. Citroen will run Sordo in Loeb's place when Loeb isn't competing, and since Sordo won't use the #1 during those rallies, he's likely to be #3 by default, in the same way that Andreas Mikkelsen is likely to be #9 when he drives for Volkswagen. Since the #3 was already taken, Sordo got the first number that was available after each of the works teams had been assigned numbers.

[PLuto]

Prisoner Monkeys is correct :)

[alleskids]

Why Citroen didn't use #3 for Sordo in MC?

Abu Dhabi Citroen WRT will be entering all 13 round sof 2013, even if Al Qassimi only does 8 rallies. so the team will have replacement drivers in 5 rallies.
my guess is that Sordo will be entering more rallies for Abu Dhabi Citroen to have the M2 team of Citroen maximum scorings oppertunity... and hopefully disrupt Ford/M-Sport scorings opportunity.
Dani Sordo will switch duties in het #3 Citroen Total Abu Dhabi car and the # 10 Abu Dhabi Citroen car in 2013

[Mintexmemory]

my guess is that Sordo will be entering more rallies for Abu Dhabi Citroen to have the M2 team of Citroen maximum scorings oppertunity... and hopefully disrupt Ford/M-Sport scorings opportunity.
Dani Sordo will switch duties in het #3 Citroen Total Abu Dhabi car and the # 10 Abu Dhabi Citroen car in 2013

If that is the case DS has definitely accepted perpetual No2 status!!!

[PLuto]

If that is the case DS has definitely accepted perpetual No2 status!!!

No, it is easy. From beginning was sure all 13 events for Hirvonen, so he was officiall nominated as first driver (starting number 2). Dani is nominated as second driver to score points for team as he wasnt sure for all events (and to be replaced by Loeb in four events).

[mousti]

No, it is easy. From beginning was sure all 13 events for Hirvonen, so he was officiall nominated as first driver (starting number 2). Dani is nominated as second driver to score points for team as he wasnt sure for all events (and to be replaced by Loeb in four events).
That's indeed the most logical thought. Hirvonen is the true Nr one there and this is one of Loeb rallies he'll do so it would be stupid to let the King not score points for the priority team.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Prisoner Monkeys is correct :)
The weird thing is that the rule has been applied in two different ways. Using my logic of allocating numbers to teams in order of priority, this is what the field should look like:

#1 - Loeb
#2 - Hirvonen
#3 - Sordo (when replacing Loeb)
#4 - Ostberg
#5 - Novikov
#6 - al'Attiyah
#7 - Latvala
#8 - Ogier
#9 - Mikkelsen
#10 - Sordo (at events Loeb contests)
#11 - al'Qassimi
#12 - Hanninen
#14 - Neuville
#15 - Kosciuszko

And then the non-manufacturer entries, like Prokop and Maurin, who have evidently been able to choose whichever number they wish. Given that the first WRC-2 entry is Lappi and he is #31, it appears that the rules have a provision for up to thirty WRC cars (more likely twenty-nine, given the superstition over the #13).

However, since the rule about number allocations appears to have been applied differently, this is what the numbers would/will look like if and when every car that is elegible for manufacturer points enters:

#1 - Loeb
#2 - Hirvonen
#3 - Sordo (when replacing Loeb)
#4 - Ostberg
#5 - Novikov
#6 - Hanninen
#7 - Latvala
#8 - Ogier
#9 - Mikkelsen
#10 - Sordo (at events Loeb contests)
#11 - Neuville
#12 - Kosciuszko
#14 - al'Qassimi
#15 - al'Attiyah

So from the looks of things, numbers are first of all allocated to the leading team for each manufacturer (ie Citroen Abu Dhabi, Qatar M-Sport). Then they are allocated to any additional cars that they intend to run, but have not entered in the first event (ie Sordo's Citroen Abu Dhabi entry, Mikkelsen's Polo). Then numbers are assigned to the second team for each manufacturer (ie Abu Dhabi Citroen, Qatar WRT), but only to the cars that are entered in the first event. Finally, numbers are assigned to the second team for each manufacturer to cars that missed the first event (ie al'Attiyah and al'Qassimi).

And before anyone points it out, al'Qassimi and Sordo cannot share the #10. Sordo's programme will see him do four events in Loeb's place, eight alongside al'Qassimi in the second team, with one left over (depending on which eight events al'Qassimi does). I'm not the best mathematician in the world, but at some point, Sordo and al'Qassimi have to contest at least one event in the same team, so they cannot share the #10.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Also, I noticed that the Bruno di Pianto/Lotos Team WRC entry is now listed as being eligible to score manufacturer points. Are they going to be sticking around for more than one rally?

[Frostmourne]

Also, I noticed that the Bruno di Pianto/Lotos Team WRC entry is now listed as being eligible to score manufacturer points. Are they going to be sticking around for more than one rally?

For at least 7 rallies (one of them should be outside Europe)

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Are they only entering the one car, or are they going to expand to two cars in the future? Since they're the old Mini Team Portugal entry, they'd have access to a second car - but at the same time, that might be too expensive. That said, Koscioszko's presence in the team leads me to believe that the "Lotos" in the team name actually refers to Grupa Lotos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grupa_Lotos), a Polish oil consortium, which is registered on the WIG20, the twenty largest companies in Poland. They've sponsored Koscioszk in the past through their Dynamic brand, which I imagine is an engine lubricant like Castrol's Edge. So the teams should be able to get plenty of sponsorship for the team; perhaps enough to run two cars - especially if they were to put a second Polish driver in the car.

Of course, they could probably find a well-funded second driver out there somewhere. There's Ott Tanak, the van Merksteijns, Atkinson, Henning Solberg, Matthew Wilson, Jarkko Nikara, Dennis Kuipers, Hans Weijs and Evyind Brynildsen out there without drives (though I think Brynildsen has something lined up for Sweden).

[Frostmourne]

I want to see alot of Mini teams as possible. Hopefully Lotos team will secure another driver, and I really wish that Prodrive can get some fast drivers on their Minis, Tanak, Nikara? and hoping good results with them.

A question guys, what is the difference between a team backed up by a factory and another is not? is it just money, paying the registeration fees? or they provide other things like more spare parts, they develope the car? What has changed for Prodrive and M sport after they dumped by BMW and Ford? Sorry if this sound as a stupid question :(

[Prisoner Monkeys]

I believe it works like this:

- Entries that are registered as manufacturers have to compete in every round of the championship with at least two cars. They also get up to 42 days of testing throughout the year.

- Entries that are not registered as manufacturers (but are WRC teams) must compete in at least seven events throughout the year, and one of these must be outside Europe (so that's Mexico, Argentina or Australia). They can enter one or two cars, but they only get 15 days of testing.

The full sporting regulations are here:

http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/regulation/file/2013%20WRC%20Sporting%20Regulations_17.12.2012.pdf

[MikeD]

I want to see alot of Mini teams as possible. Hopefully Lotos team will secure another driver....

That's very unlikely. Grupa Lotos export markets are central and easter Europe and that's why they support a driver from their own country (Poland). The only reason Grupa Lotos would hire a second driver would be for Kosciuszko to learn through a more experienced driver. But in this economic climate I don't see it happening.

Second of all I think Motorsport Italia (the team running the Lotos Team) has their other Mini JCW up for sale.

Honestly I doubt there will be more M2/MT teams this year unless Stohl Racing can put together a program for a driver with good sponsors.

[skarderud]

Are they only entering the one car, or are they going to expand to two cars in the future? Since they're the old Mini Team Portugal entry, they'd have access to a second car - but at the same time, that might be too expensive. That said, Koscioszko's presence in the team leads me to believe that the "Lotos" in the team name actually refers to Grupa Lotos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grupa_Lotos), a Polish oil consortium, which is registered on the WIG20, the twenty largest companies in Poland. They've sponsored Koscioszk in the past through their Dynamic brand, which I imagine is an engine lubricant like Castrol's Edge. So the teams should be able to get plenty of sponsorship for the team; perhaps enough to run two cars - especially if they were to put a second Polish driver in the car.

Of course, they could probably find a well-funded second driver out there somewhere. There's Ott Tanak, the van Merksteijns, Atkinson, Henning Solberg, Matthew Wilson, Jarkko Nikara, Dennis Kuipers, Hans Weijs and Evyind Brynildsen out there without drives (though I think Brynildsen has something lined up for Sweden).


Brynhildsen is in a fiesta wrc run by adapta in sweden, posibly 3 rounds this year.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

13 car WRC entry... not bad :)

[padWRC]

WRC entries in Monte:

2013 :13 Cars
2012 :17 Cars
2011 :-
2010 :-
2009 :-
2008 :19 Cars
2007 :18 Cars
2006 :24 Cars
2005 :20 Cars
2004 :20 Cars
2003 :19 Cars
2002 :18 Cars
2001 :24 Cars
2000 :17 Cars
1999 :17 Cars
1998 :7 Cars
1997 :4 Cars

[pucky54]

And for comparison Super 2000 entries for the IRC events:

2011: 27 Cars
2010: 19 Cars
2009: 16 Cars

;)



WRC entries in Monte:

2013 :13 Cars
2012 :17 Cars
2011 :-
2010 :-
2009 :-
2008 :19 Cars
2007 :18 Cars
2006 :24 Cars
2005 :20 Cars
2004 :20 Cars
2003 :19 Cars
2002 :18 Cars
2001 :24 Cars
2000 :17 Cars
1999 :17 Cars
1998 :7 Cars
1997 :4 Cars

[pantealex]

for comparison
2013
13 WRC
8 S2000
=21

[PLuto]

for comparison
2013
13 WRC
8 S2000
=21

For comparison 2011
27 S2000
23 N4
=50

It is not good counting apples and pears together. I think it is more correct to count "best possible cars" in each edition...

[big_sw2000]

For comparison 2011
27 S2000
23 N4
=50

It is not good counting apples and pears together. I think it is more correct to count "best possible cars" in each edition...

But WRC, and well driven S2000 are what most spectators go to see.

Steve