Rallye Wrc Monte-Carlo 2013

[Francis44]

For comparison 2011
27 S2000
23 N4
=50

It is not good counting apples and pears together. I think it is more correct to count "best possible cars" in each edition...

Unfortunately quantity does not mean quality. In the IRC's years a good part of the S2000 entry's were gentleman drivers which didn't contribute highly to the competition.

[PLuto]

Unfortunately quantity does not mean quality. In the IRC's years a good part of the S2000 entry's were gentleman drivers which didn't contribute highly to the competition.

Do you think that in WRC there are no gentleman drivers? ;)

[Francis44]

Do you think that in WRC there are no gentleman drivers? ;)

Ofcourse, however much less than in the IRC.

[PLuto]

Ofcourse, however much less than in the IRC.

Are you sure?

[Francis44]

Are you sure?

Yes I am ;) . Looking at this year entry list, I see perhaps 1 or 2 gentleman drivers with WRC's, two years ago there were much more S2000's but I would say a good 40 % or more of these were gentleman drivers not even worth seeing.

[pucky54]

...two years ago there were much more S2000's but I would say a good 40 % or more of these were gentleman drivers not even worth seeing.

You must be joking!

[Andre Oliveira]

Did you conting Mäkkinen's Mitsubishi like WRC?

[Francis44]

You must be joking!

Not at all.

[Mirek]

Yes I am ;) . Looking at this year entry list, I see perhaps 1 or 2 gentleman drivers with WRC's, two years ago there were much more S2000's but I would say a good 40 % or more of these were gentleman drivers not even worth seeing.

I was in RMC 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012. 2012 was in no way more spectacular rally than previous editions. Saw many stages, quite often same or very similar places of my liking. Definitely best of these editions for me was 2010.

And 13 WRC cars for RMC is pretty bad.

[pucky54]

Not at all.

So tell me the (at least) 11 gentleman drivers at Monte 2011 sitting in Super 2000 cars...I am curious

[bluuford]

So tell me the (at least) 11 gentleman drivers at Monte 2011 sitting in Super 2000 cars...I am curious

I am agree with Mirek but your question is almost simple: Those 10 are more or less gentelman drivers (in my view). Sorry if I am too tough against someone but it is just my perosnal opinion.


1 Wallenwein, Mark Škoda Fabia S2000
2 Maurin, Julien Ford Fiesta S2000
3 Betti, Luca Peugeot 207 S2000
4 Vigion, Jean-Sébastien Peugeot 207 S2000
5 Caffi, Alessandro Škoda Fabia S2000
6 Boetti, Michel Peugeot 207 S2000
7 Settembrini, Massimiliano Peugeot 207 S2000
8 Tempestini, Marco Peugeot 207 S2000
9 Pascal, Laurent Peugeot 207 S2000
10 Capelli, Stefano Peugeot 207 S2000

[PLuto]

There is a question how to define "gentleman driver"? Is Maurin gentleman driver? Is Betti gentleman driver? Is Prokop gentleman driver? Is Wilson genleman driver?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I thought 13 WRCs wasn't bad considering two of the Official Manufacturers Teams (Ford & Mini) have pulled out and the new one (VW) only has 2 cars...

[PLuto]

Ford is out only formally...

[bluuford]

There is a question how to define "gentleman driver"? Is Maurin gentleman driver? Is Betti gentleman driver? Is Prokop gentleman driver? Is Wilson genleman driver?

Well behaving driver ;-) For me, Maurin=yes, Betti=yes, sometimes nerly no, Prokop=no, Wilson=no, sometimes nearly yes.

[pucky54]

Maurin is 27, how can he be a gentleman driver? LOL
Same for Wallenwein

[mousti]

Tourist is maybe a better name. But Wallenwein is a gentlemen driver mainly driving with own funds (Wallenborn) that's what a gentlemen driver means. Nothing to do with age I thought..

[pucky54]

Tourist is maybe a better name. But Wallenwein is a gentlemen driver mainly driving with own funds (Wallenborn) that's what a gentlemen driver means. Nothing to do with age I thought..

Wallenborn has nothing to do with Wallenwein, it's his sponsor!
Interesting...two years ago he was "the biggest german talent" and now he should be a gentleman driver?

[mousti]

My fault then, with the 'Wallen' in that name I thought so :p . I never said he was a talent, he never impressed me.. But if it's just a sponsor and not funding of himself or family then indeed he's not a gentlemen driver..

Tsjoen got called a long time a gentlemen driver because of the funding of his uncle, not because his slow or "old" because he isn't slow for sure and is still on a reasonable age :p

[tommeke_B]

Actually a driver called Wallenborn is often driving that Fabia if I'm right... ;) Anyway Mark Wallenwein is not a great driver (I think Sandro Wallenwein is better). Tourist or gentleman driver isn't really the correct word for guys like Maurin. I would rather say: "driver with personal financial backing", but that's longer than one word... :p

[pucky54]

I never said he was a talent, he never impressed me...

No, you didn't, but most of the germans thought he would be... :D :D

In my opinion a "gentleman driver" is a driver who is just driving for fun, is not looking for achievements, is spending his own money, is not a youngster anymore...

[pucky54]

Actually a driver called Wallenborn is often driving that Fabia if I'm right...

Yes, he is the owner of Wallenborn logistics...

[Francis44]

My point is that the current obsession about the number of top cars in the entrylist does not make any sense. It seems to me a long entrylist does not make a better rally.

It's not understandable to say the rally is less interesting because now it's in WRC and there's fewer cars. Your experience on a rally can be totally different depending on the places you see, etc.... The fact that there are fewer entry's isn't going to change overnight, but I'd much rather see Loeb, Hirvonnen, Ogier, Latvala and Sordo fighting it out than a platoon of 30 S2000's.

[PLuto]

No, you didn't, but most of the germans thought he would be... :D :D

In my opinion a "gentleman driver" is a driver who is just driving for fun, is not looking for achievements, is spending his own money, is not a youngster anymore...

How you would like to choose who is looking for achievements and who not? I think it is very difficult to find real definition of "gentleman driver".

[PLuto]

My point is that the current obsession about the number of top cars in the entrylist does not make any sense. It seems to me a long entrylist does not make a better rally.

It's not understandable to say the rally is less interesting because now it's in WRC and there's fewer cars. Your experience on a rally can be totally different depending on the places you see, etc.... The fact that there are fewer entry's isn't going to change overnight, but I'd much rather see Loeb, Hirvonnen, Ogier, Latvala and Sordo fighting it out than a platoon of 30 S2000's.

I'd much rather see platoon of 30 S2000s with few top drivers that Loeb, Ogier, Hirvonen, Latvala and others in WRC. Especially on tarmac...

[Mirek]

OMG with those lists of gentleman drivers. In the end everyone except factory guys will be gentleman driver...

Vigion, Wallenwein, Maurin, Betti etc. are still relatively young. Only Maurin is "professional son" driving for family money I think.

Vigion isn't old at all. He is also champion of Trophé Michelin from few years back. That was French championship without WRC cars. If I remember a year before he almost won it with ancient Clio Maxi! In DS3 R3 he is comparable with Arzeno, Chardonnet, S. Consani etc. Are they too gentleman drivers??? Maybe Bluuford just saw few times from RMC but forgot that Vigion did a lot of stages with broken transmission. Sometimes he was passing us in a speed of tractor...

Walenwein is German champion. Of curse German championship isn't really great but still. He is young, he has very tiny foreign experience and therefore is quite slow abroad. But that doesn't make him gentleman driver - especially in his age...

I don't want to continue but I would be careful about splitting like Vigion - gentleman / Prokop not gentleman. Only one of them has strong family backing and it's... Prokop. And I'm quite sure Vigion would be at least a challenge for Prokop in RMC or Alsace if he had same car and testing. However he has money barely to drive at home with R3 car in Citroën Trophy and that is what make him gentleman driver???

For me true gentleman drivers are guys like René Kuipers, Eamon Bolland, Laszlo Vizin etc.

[Barreis]

Where is the Hungarian called (I think) Turan who drove 307wrc few years ago? Very good gentleman driver.

[Mirek]

In Freistadt preparing notes for Jänner Rally.

[AndyRAC]

Frederic Dor was what I call a Gentleman driver. Sportscars even has a class for the Gentleman driver GT-Am.

[Mintexmemory]

I think the defining feature of a 'Gentleman Driver' if we go back to the roots of the term, when aristocrats and wealthy industrialists competed in motor racing against the factory drivers, is someone who is an amateur. They pay with their own money and have sufficient time (not constrained by a job) to compete against professionals (full employment by a team) and semi-professionals (money provided directly by sponsors and normally motorsport -related employment). The difference nowdays is that you can no longer obtain identical machinery to the factory and no amount of talent will bridge the gap.

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Whole motorsport and rally have been "build" by these gentleman drivers. Like 1894 Paris-Rouen. Without these gentlemans we don´t have whole motorsport. :)

[vino_93]

Vigion isn't old at all. He is also champion of Trophé Michelin from few years back. That was French championship without WRC cars. If I remember a year before he almost won it with ancient Clio Maxi! In DS3 R3 he is comparable with Arzeno, Chardonnet, S. Consani etc. Are they too gentleman drivers??? Maybe Bluuford just saw few times from RMC but forgot that Vigion did a lot of stages with broken transmission. Sometimes he was passing us in a speed of tractor...

Moreover Vigion was one of the most talentuous young french at the end of 2000's. He could have another carreer if he didn't lost his driving license in Mont Blanc 2009 ... at this time if I remenber correctly he was leading french championship, and I'm quite sure he would have won. But due to his mistake, he lost his sponsorship (Yacco) and his carreer never really restart ... but after two difficult years (2010 few races with C2 S1600, and 2 international events with 207 S2000, with very good times in Rallye de France; and no monney to do whole champ in 2011, doing some event in a not reliable 207 S2000), he did a nice combeack this year with DS3 R3, fighting against all young french rising star, proving that his skill is still there.

If he didn't lose his driving license ... maybe he could have had some international experience, and for sure no-one would classified him as gentleman driver.

[katikisphotography]

Is that a "Monte Carlo 2013" topic or not...?

[Mintexmemory]

Is that a "Monte Carlo 2013" topic or not...?

In as much as it is discussing the merits of competitors against their contemporaries I think it is acceptable. After all we are in the phoney war period. Entry list posted, testing mostly done waiting for Valence Shakedown with baited breath. Hell, I wish the season would start. For those wanting a fix and who haven't noticed - RMC Pickem is now live!

[irish_tiger]

Moreover Vigion was one of the most talentuous young french at the end of 2000's. He could have another carreer if he didn't lost his driving license in Mont Blanc 2009 ... at this time if I remenber correctly he was leading french championship, and I'm quite sure he would have won. But due to his mistake, he lost his sponsorship (Yacco) and his carreer never really restart ... but after two difficult years (2010 few races with C2 S1600, and 2 international events with 207 S2000, with very good times in Rallye de France; and no monney to do whole champ in 2011, doing some event in a not reliable 207 S2000), he did a nice combeack this year with DS3 R3, fighting against all young french rising star, proving that his skill is still there.

If he didn't lose his driving license ... maybe he could have had some international experience, and for sure no-one would classified him as gentleman driver.

What happened that he lost his licence in 2009 ?

[Kielder]

Kosciuszko's Mini:

http://i48.tinypic.com/30hooap.jpg

[Mintexmemory]

What happened that he lost his licence in 2009 ?

News from France - Page 5 (http://www.motorsportforum.com/european-national-rallying/134926-news-france-5.html)

Speeding

[Bartek]

I'm not sure that this livery is for Monte, i think it's from Barbórka 2010...

[Barreis]

Mini probably was't homologated in 2010.

[makinen_fan]

I'm not sure that this livery is for Monte, i think it's from Barbórka 2010...


2011 you mean. Indeed livery is very similar:

eWRC.cz - po všech stránkách rally… (http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/image_browse.php?id=75570)

[Tom206wrc]

Great fight it'll be in 2WD class :bounce:

[Kielder]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/206709_407538592653535_1091933569_n.jpg

[A.F.F.]

Sorry about the stupid question but is it that if you retire at Monte, there is no super rally or whateverthef**k it is?

[stefanvv]

Sorry about the stupid question but is it that if you retire at Monte, there is no super rally or whateverthef**k it is?

Yes, same as last year, if you're out, you're out

[pantealex]

Sorry about the stupid question but is it that if you retire at Monte, there is no super rally or whateverthef**k it is?

There is NO superrally at MC, Retired=Retired

[Mintexmemory]

There is NO superrally at MC, Retired=Retired
Hence my 'Deerhunter' allusion in the pickem preamble
Full quote
'One shot - anything else is pussy'
RMC certainly sorts the men from the boys!

[RAS007]

There is NO superrally at MC, Retired=Retired

I really, really wish that the above post said, "There is NO superrally in the 2013 WRC. Retired = retired."

[pantealex]

I really, really wish that the above post said, "There is NO superrally in the 2013 WRC. Retired = retired."

No hope, Sweden has Superrally

[Mintexmemory]

I really, really wish that the above post said, "There is NO superrally in the 2013 WRC. Retired = retired."

So how do you attract media interest and joe public when there might only be 3/13 WRC cars running on day 3. What I do think is that no one who has not completed every stage should finish ahead of someone who has. 1 fail should be awarded for every stage not completed.

[Mirek]

So how do you attract media interest and joe public when there might only be 3/13 WRC cars running on day 3. What I do think is that no one who has not completed every stage should finish ahead of someone who has. 1 fail should be awarded for every stage not completed.

All Monte Carlo editions since 2009 were without superally. I stand behind the opinion that it didn't harm the rally but exactly opposite. Especially because it brought back the feeling that finishing the event is something memorable and a success itself.

[dupanton]

So how do you attract media interest and joe public when there might only be 3/13 WRC cars running on day 3. What I do think is that no one who has not completed every stage should finish ahead of someone who has. 1 fail should be awarded for every stage not completed.

If they use the system like ERC, they will restart! Just bonus points for the leg classifications!

[Barreis]

Does anybody know on what TV station can we watch it?! Hope for Eurosport....

[Mintexmemory]

All Monte Carlo editions since 2009 were without superally. I stand behind the opinion that it didn't harm the rally but exactly opposite. Especially because it brought back the feeling that finishing the event is something memorable and a success itself.
I respect that view and understand that RMC is a special case, but if we want to safeguard the future of rallying as a WC then greater attraction for non-afficiandos is required.

[Mintexmemory]

If they use the system like ERC, they will restart! Just bonus points for the leg classifications!

That would still allow retirees to beat those who cover the whole distance

[Mirek]

I respect that view and understand that RMC is a special case, but if we want to safeguard the future of rallying as a WC then greater attraction for non-afficiandos is required.

How long was SR around? Ten years? Did it make WRC better or did it attract anybody? I don't think so, sorry.

[rallyfiend]

How long was SR around? Ten years? Did it make WRC better or did it attract anybody? I don't think so, sorry.

Maybe the manufacturers will have left earlier if the opportunity to get return on their investment had been removed.

The existence of SR doesn't seem to have STOPPED anyone joining - VW, Hyundai etc...

Can yo uprove in any way that it has hurt?

[Mirek]

Maybe the manufacturers will have left earlier if the opportunity to get return on their investment had been removed.

That's nonsense. Look at other championships. IRC since 2006 didn't use SR (it was up to organizers but only a fraction of them decides to use it) and the number of involved manufacturers wasn't worse to WRC. The overall number of participants was usually higher. Manufacturers don't compete in a championship to be allowed to restart. They compete to win. You don't win by restarting anyway. You don't restart in any other form of motorsport but still manufacturers are interested if the championship is healthy, has clear stable rules and enough promotion. Superally or other crazy inventions are not important for manufacturers at all.

What is without any doubts is that SR ruins fair competition. Look at the long muddy stage in Cataluya. How many 2WD crews were slower in the stage than crews which didn't make it to finish at all? That's plain ridiculous. How would the F1 look if You could overtake someone while standing in a box? Rallying is of course not F1 but that doesn't make it a place where You can spit on low-level and private competitors.

Support championships SWRC, JWRC and PWRC were plagued by SR. How many % of points were given to those who didn't finish whole course? Jordan 2010 comes to my mind as a ridiculous event where almost everybody on points at least once retired. Is it fair if someone crashes every day except last short one and takes points while the other makes whole route and than retires in last day without any points because SR is not allowed last day?

Wasn't rallying from its beginning a sport where to finish first first You had to finish? Which sport benefited from turning back to its fundamentals?

[stefanvv]

I don't like Super Rally (Rally 2) either. Have you watched McRae trying to finish a stage after some accident :D Some spirit huh?

[AndyRAC]

Why can't common sense apply? If you SupeRally, or Rally2 - then you can't finish ahead of competitors who have done the whole event. Simple.

In show-jumping if you have fences down, you finish behind ALL clear rounds, even if you are faster.

[denkimi]

if they want to get rid of superrally, they should reintroduce flying service.
give people the chance to repair some damage after each stage, so they don't have to quit due to 1 small mistake.

[A FONDO]

if they want to get rid of superrally, they should reintroduce flying service.
give people the chance to repair some damage after each stage, so they don't have to quit due to 1 small mistake.

Let me guess, you are video games fan?

[Mintexmemory]

When WRC events had over 150 entrants including at least 20 potential winners then retirement was acceptable. The field of less than 50 cars with only 13 total WRC is not going to be attractive to tv and hence in turn will further dissuade manufacturers. There are more than the number of entrants and SR involved in this problem but ending SR without allowing the sort of servicing time and opportunities that used to make for heroic stories of determination would be counter-productive.

[Munkvy]

At regional level here in New Zealand, if you DNF a stage, you can rejoin at certain later points in the rally like a service area exit control. You however aren't classified as a finisher, and regardless of your stage times, the results classify you behind those who completed all stages.

In my opinion as a back of the field regional competitor, this works well - as it allows you to continue to compete, even though you aren't classified. At least this way you can still get some stage miles, which is often what we are after as we realise we won't win our class or the rally.

[MR666]

Not a fan of super rally, Mr Loeb I think would have 1 less championship had it not been around.

[rjbetty]

At regional level here in New Zealand, if you DNF a stage, you can rejoin at certain later points in the rally like a service area exit control. You however aren't classified as a finisher, and regardless of your stage times, the results classify you behind those who completed all stages.

In my opinion as a back of the field regional competitor, this works well - as it allows you to continue to compete, even though you aren't classified. At least this way you can still get some stage miles, which is often what we are after as we realise we won't win our class or the rally.

YES this is what I've been thinking for so long! I think it's wrong that works cars can retire then still score points. It deprives privateers who are trying to get a foothold in the sport a chance to make their mark and score points. However I understand that the FIA, in order to disguise the shocking state of the WRC (which I hold them responsible for, largely by getting rid of 3 cars then adding expensive rallies), they have to allow this rule to make the fields seem less sparse.

The solution above I think offers the best of both worlds. Cars can rejoin and gain experience, and the fans can still see their heroes! Yet it will be fair to the plucky privateers who have made the effort to stay on the road and look after their car - that also seems very SPORTING!

The FIA could of course simply undo the changes that caused the WRC to jump the shark in the first place rather than resort to artificial gimmicks... :(

[Rally Hokkaido]

I think the SuperRally rule has been discussed many times on this forum since it was introduced. Here is a brief history of how it came about:
1/ WRC promoter concerned with lack of manufacturers' car entries
2/ FIA proposed SuperRALLY as used in APRC, etc (possible leg points but no overall classification for re-starters)
3/ WRC Manufacturers rejected proposal as not enough incentive to re-start
4/ All the above compromised and WRC version of Super Rally was born
5/ FIA modified Super Rally rule a couple of times and even re-named it Rally 2

I wonder how the new manufacturer would vote (see point 3/ above) if the Super Rally issue was debated at an FIA meeting this year?

[vino_93]

maybe the new regulations in ERC are a test for the future of WRC ? It would be the best thing to satisfy all the people ... only crews who finished are classified, and other can restart and take points day, so organizers and promotors would be happy.

[Mirek]

This system has been used in ERC for maybe five years already. it has been also used in some national championships (Czech for example)

[Kielder]

Ready for Monte:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/397712_326873080752420_1912188756_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/150260_326873024085759_2098529211_n.jpg

[stefanvv]

Nobody would need Super Rally if teams were running 3 cars.

[rallyfiend]

Nobody would need Super Rally if teams were running 3 cars.

so you get rid of SupeRally and make it MORE expensive for the teams to compete?

[Barreis]

Well if factory that earns billions/year can not put one more car on start list but they can take the car to the rally and lease it to some rich guy for 150 000€, then maybe they're not interested enough for the sport. FIA/Richards/Wilson are responsible for bad decisions. That's my opinion.

[amilk]

SR is not healthy thing for sure but there are pros and contras - if sometimes we are live on a WRC round travelling 1-2K km's it's very painfull to see on the 2nd-3rd day less WRC cars without super rally. At the time when it was 20-25WRC at the entry list it was not so painfull but today's time we are happy to have 15. Same for local spectators, same for joung talents in WRC car they can collect less km without SR.

[rjbetty]

so you get rid of SupeRally and make it MORE expensive for the teams to compete?

It worked pretty well when it was that way before. Besides, teams didn't HAVE to run 3 cars - Subaru usually didn't do so.

[MAXLD]

I think the SuperRally rule has been discussed many times on this forum since it was introduced. Here is a brief history of how it came about:

2/ FIA proposed SuperRALLY as used in APRC, etc (possible leg points but no overall classification for re-starters)
3/ WRC Manufacturers rejected proposal as not enough incentive to re-start



I think I tend to doubt that's the main reason... leg points would be very important for the championship and would be a pretty good incentive. Besides, the car would still run the stages and show the sponsors. Not sure if they would still get points for manufacturer's championship or not... but even if not, there's plenty of incentives to continue (+ to test other setups for next rallies, which was common when a driver was far back).

But, with only 1 or 2 manufacturers/official cars, there's a higher probability to be much faster than the privates (sometimes even a matter of minutes in just a few stages), and the Super Rally allows them to return the next day and pretty much compensate for the 5min time penalty.

In some rallies, the top 3~4 factory drivers are separated by only seconds, but then the rest of the top 10 is like 10~15min away... this means, if one of the top drivers crash/quit and return in super-rally with 5min penalty*, there's still a considerable probability to be, at least, 4th or 5th in the end of the rally... and that's 12 or 10pts / + manufacturers points(I think). Sometimes in extreme cases, even with 5min penalty, they might not even loose a place...

* And since the service area is never that far from the stages (standard current format favours a close central location), then the probability of missing stages is also reduced, compared to the old marathon format.


The ERC system is much better, drivers who drive fast, stay on the road and fight for the lead are rewarded in the end by the points they deserve. Those who return in Super Rally will still be part of the show and will have the incentive of doing "damage control" by trying to get Leg points going faster, and that way they also have less to loose, meaning they can risk a bit more.
I think WRC can easily adopt it in the next few years, specially when more manufacturers join the championship, and with the intention of the FIA to allow longer rallies to provide a bit more endurance and unexpected drama, this will be great for everyone.

[stefanvv]

so you get rid of SupeRally and make it MORE expensive for the teams to compete?

I don't think one more car is such a burden. The more expensive part is the program itself and cars development. Besides 3rd driver would be usually junior, so he wouldn't need millions of salary.

[DonJippo]

Nobody would need Super Rally if teams were running 3 cars.

When we have only two works teams I don't think adding two cars makes really a difference.

[stefanvv]

When we have only two works teams I don't think adding two cars makes really a difference.

Well, if I take for example some Rallies this year when both Ford drivers retired at day 1, the team still would have very good chance to fight for a podium spot with the third one. I think it makes some difference.

[Mirek]

When You mention Ford. It's funny to see how they are proud on the record of million events finished on points in a row. Such record under superally rules with recent number of manufacturers is totally meaningless. As a rally fan I feel like someone is trying to fool me when I see such headlines...

[dimviii]

When You mention Ford. It's funny to see how they are proud on the record of million events finished on points in a row. Such record under superally rules with recent number of manufacturers is totally meaningless. As a rally fan I feel like someone is trying to fool me when I see such headlines...
so true!

[boroka]

What is the weather for the rally?

[danon]

Freezing cold, but the forecast is to warm up... june - july

[tommeke_B]

What is the weather for the rally?
Always difficult to predict, it's almost a week before the first day of the event... ;) Except that indeed it is cold (danon you are a genius!), it's impossible to predict conditions now, I think. I hope weathermaster Bluuford will provide us some update when the start of the rally is getting closer? :)

[Nelly]

Exactly! The teams can't predict what it's going to do 2 hours before the stage, never mind now!!!

[vino_93]

for the moment it was too warm to have lot of snow. But next week lot of snow is predicted in France, and not so high in moutain. We have to see if it will stay as this or change ...

[Kielder]

About the weather, Sordo wrote yesterday on Facebook that It's expected a lot of snow, so the tyre choice will be a mess :D .
Besides, after his last of testing on ice and some snow, he added that the car is amazing (he compared it implicitly with the Mini). Reading between the lines, he knows he's a strong candidate to win.

[Kielder]

Consani is out: Stéphane Consani bien absent au Monte-Carlo (http://www.rallye-sport.fr/stephane-consani-bien-absent-au-monte-carlo/)

[tommeke_B]

Shame... :( S. Consani would've been a good contendor for the 2WD-fight...

[Mintexmemory]

About the weather, Sordo wrote yesterday on Facebook that It's expected a lot of snow, so the tyre choice will be a mess :D .
Besides, after his last of testing on ice and some snow, he added that the car is amazing (he compared it implicitly with the Mini). Reading between the lines, he knows he's a strong candidate to win.

Inside information that he will ignore team orders?

[Juha_Koo]

Inside information that he will ignore team orders?

What team orders?

[tommeke_B]

Exactly. As Loeb doesn't compete for the title there should not be team orders in his favour... :)

[mousti]

I think that they will do that on Power Stage if Loeb has a big enough gap, to let Sordo and Hirvonen get the points.

[Barreis]

Photos du journal | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151252032973952&set=a.334989268951.153758.334811638951&type=1&theater)

[Kielder]

Inside information that he will ignore team orders?

"Outside information" that there won't be team orders. Inside information that Loeb is faster than anyone (well, this first part is outside too), so if he can he can keep Loeb at least a tenth of a second behind in Thoard on Thursday 18 of January they can have a chat...

[Kielder]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/270355_402578553149523_555547805_n.jpg

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Oooh, those pinstripes on the front and rear make me want to vomit.

[skarderud]

If its lots of snow, the fight for the podium is totally different when its just wet tarmac.
loeb is of course the favorite, but if its snowy, Mads can be hard to get, if Ford don't mess up the tirechoice as usual...
i'm hoping for challenging conditions, then its more exiting :)

[A FONDO]

if its snowy, Mads can be hard to get

snow on tarmac is compeltely different than snow on gravel. lots of people must retire for Mads to reach the podium

[skarderud]

Lots? Not to many, Mads had developed quite well on tarmac last year.

[Kielder]

The Turini three hours ago (from Julian Porter's Twitter account):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAVYAuwCMAAeSVb.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAVZTt0CYAAf_K8.jpg:large

[Rasantes]

Chardonnet

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/538013_469878823073556_1086165388_n.jpg

[rallye-sport]

The first teams arrived...

Photos here -> Le Parc de Valence s'installe (http://www.rallye-sport.fr/le-parc-de-valence-sinstalle/)

http://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-content/gallery/valence-monte-carlo-2013/img_8687.jpg

http://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-content/gallery/valence-monte-carlo-2013/img_8692.jpg

[MartijnS]

Another photo of Julian Porter.

5 km of snow and Ice at the Sisteron stage :)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAZVHqyCUAAqEfN.jpg

Next stage dry again, so 59 km stage and 5 km of that full of snow :)

[A FONDO]

It is good you wrote the explanation. Some people just repost the picture and make us imagine it is all a snowy tale over there.

[Mirek]

It can and for sure it will change till the start.

[makinen_fan]

Julian Porter @The_Rally_Guru
SS11-33.19 kms, it has 17kms of snow/slush in it, really difficult stage. First 13 kms is clear as is the last 2kms, the rest, bloody scary!

[Mirek]

Julian Porter @The_Rally_Guru
SS11-33.19 kms, it has 17kms of snow/slush in it, really difficult stage. First 13 kms is clear as is the last 2kms, the rest, bloody scary!

SS11 is St. Jean en Royans. That stage was decisive in last editions with always crazy weather (last year the last third was pure ice with heavy rain on it; a year before it was that famous sudden heavy snowfall). You don't need to know what is there now. It changes in half an hour from dry to complete snow etc. and even info from gravel crews might be completely inaccurate. The stage itself is in my opinion most boring of all RMC stages but with the weather of Vercors mountains... :)

[trifonvl]

Bad weather is expected for the rally, very low temperatures and some snow, for sure not a boring weather ;)

[trifonvl]

Weather in Saint-Jean-en-Royans - AccuWeather Forecast for Rhône-Alpes France (http://www.accuweather.com/en/fr/saint-jean-en-royans/166309/daily-weather-forecast/166309?day=6)

[AndyRAC]

The stage which turned around the 2011 Monte. Everybody thought Delecour was mad for picking snow tyres - and Skoda messed it up, costing Hanninen the win. Classic Monte tyre choices.....

We haven't had a very snowy WRC Monte for quite a while, I wonder if that is to change.

[Mirek]

Weather in Saint-Jean-en-Royans - AccuWeather Forecast for Rhône-Alpes France (http://www.accuweather.com/en/fr/saint-jean-en-royans/166309/daily-weather-forecast/166309?day=6)

That looks like snow is granted :) The town itself is located deep in quite warm valley. The stage than climbs some 1000 meters higher in the mountains and after going through tunnels it gets to the Vercors plateau where it is always much colder than in the town. By much I mean difference more than 5 degrees Celsius. It can be even 10 degrees colder there :)

[WUff1]

The stage which turned around the 2011 Monte. Everybody thought Delecour was mad for picking snow tyres - and Skoda messed it up, costing Hanninen the win. Classic Monte tyre choices.....

We haven't had a very snowy WRC Monte for quite a while, I wonder if that is to change.

I think You mean Bouffier instead of Delecour?

[pucky54]

I think You mean Bouffier instead of Delecour?

No, Delecour was the brilliant crazy guy in tire choice :)

[Rasantes]

Col de la Fontbelle.

http://i47.tinypic.com/35bbgk3.jpg


http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/73296_472344826161012_1874184373_n.jpg

[dimviii]

recce for JML
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAbe2s4CYAABDU1.jpg

[dimviii]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/299586_4820132272782_370848331_n.jpghttp://img201.imageshack.us/img201/8650/montcarlo2013025.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/64512_4820549643216_1698285688_n.jpg

[pantealex]

recce for JML
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAbe2s4CYAABDU1.jpg

Toni Gardemaister ? Ice crew ?

[Teme]

Toni Gardemaister ? Ice crew ?

Yes.

[A FONDO]

No, Delecour was the brilliant crazy guy in tire choice :)

That's right, it was Delecour the only one to put studded snow tyres. Funny thing is, he said afterwards that he wanted other type of tyres but didn't have them available.

[pucky54]

Funny thing is, he said afterwards that he wanted other type of tyres but didn't have them available.

Reminds me of Jänner, where same thing happened :D

[Mirek]

I was on that stage and Delecour wasn't only one on studs but only one from top with all four with studs. Bouffier had D10 but I think only two with studs and he also had a massive spin in the other stage and that was time he lost to Delecour. Loix had four D10 without studs. Most of late runners had studs as they already knew what is going on when they were leaving service.

[bluuford]

Weather looks to come extremely cold and most of the tire choices easy.. why, it will be really cold and snowy rally. Even the shakedown in Valence should be spectacular, because it is going to snow there as well :-) Only problem will be the tyre management.. they are allowed to use only 10 studded tyres and 20 snow tyres, rest of them are just soft..

[AndyRAC]

I was on that stage and Delecour wasn't only one on studs but only one from top with all four with studs. Bouffier had D10 but I think only two with studs and he also had a massive spin in the other stage and that was time he lost to Delecour. Loix had four D10 without studs. Most of late runners had studs as they already knew what is going on when they were leaving service.

Remember the event was mostly dry, Hanninen was about 50secs to a 1 min ahead; Solberg was his closest rival, and at the mid day service they watched each others tyre choices. Delecour was interviewed, and said he had a friend up in the hills; and that it was snowing. Delecour and Bouffier had the right tyres, either on the wheels, or as spares. Hanninen, Solberg & Kopecky went with dry tyres........

I seem to remember Maurin struggling first on the road on dry tyres, and Delecour under steering on the dry Tarmac early on the first of the afternoon's stages - before hitting the snow, and setting quick times. And to watch it all on LiveTV was awesome!!

[Mirek]

I remember that too. I was in the first downhill after the tunnels where there is no GSM signal to inform anyone. It was snowing all the time before but not heavily. The road was rather clean till gravel crews stopped driving. Once there was no traffic it started to keep on the road. We had a big discussion with friends in time the top was leaving service what tyres would we recommend to the crews. Even being there we were only two of ten voting for studs. After half an hour (still a lot of time before start) everyone knew studs are the only option. Waiting for Juho was neverending and to see him sliding slowly downhill through the fog was painful...

Anyway there was one interesting thing. Juho had two winter tyres without studs if I remember (kopecký not). He put them cross, one to front axle, one to rear axle. It proved to be better with a car without center diff than to have both on same axle. Last year if I remember many driver did the same for stage Burzet including Loeb.

[makinen_fan]

Interesting photo
http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/72588_418070594935700_1190193240_n.jpg

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Toni Gardemaister ? Ice crew ?

Name is Gardemeister.

[Rasantes]

Julian Porter ‏@The_Rally_Guru (https://twitter.com/The_Rally_Guru/status/290415428390502400)


SS1/3 & SS2/4 are done, SS1/2 is wet, no snow. SS2/4 The first 9kms clear, the last 21kms is snow & slush.

[Kielder]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TXpWCsjZmo

[Fast Eddie WRC]

And to watch it all on Live TV was awesome!!

Those were the days...

Why cant the WRC sort itself out and do what the IRC did ...

[dimviii]

Νovikov at 2,16 lol

[dimviii]

http://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-content/gallery/valence-monte-carlo-2013/mg_8930.jpghttp://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-content/gallery/valence-monte-carlo-2013/mg_8938.jpg

[Bartek]

i wonder why all of them have rally cars on recce?

[Rasantes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urN-SrCSSrM

[dimviii]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/408525_516949958325428_1977141283_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/312447_516950094992081_2037936204_n.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.515637415123349.112215.339024159451343&type=1

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAfHnmqCQAEeiNW.jpg

Burzet 15km

[Rasantes]

@The_Rally_Guru Julian Porter (https://twitter.com/The_Rally_Guru/status/290452232372121600/photo/1/large)


The start line of SS6 - St Bonnet Le Froid.


http://i50.tinypic.com/2hyyl38.jpg

[makinen_fan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urN-SrCSSrM

LOL, Ostberg uses an ex Gronholm seat (2:45)

[Mad cat jnr]

I thought the same....he has changed a bit ;)

And Ostbergs first time in MC

[trifonvl]

@The_Rally_Guru Julian Porter (https://twitter.com/The_Rally_Guru/status/290452232372121600/photo/1/large)


The start line of SS6 - St Bonnet Le Froid.


http://i50.tinypic.com/2hyyl38.jpg

Weather in Saint-Bonnet-le-Froid - AccuWeather Forecast for Auvergne France (http://www.accuweather.com/en/fr/saint-bonnet-le-froid/157396/daily-weather-forecast/157396?day=1)

[Gregor-y]

I was on that stage and Delecour wasn't only one on studs but only one from top with all four with studs. Bouffier had D10 but I think only two with studs and he also had a massive spin in the other stage and that was time he lost to Delecour. Loix had four D10 without studs. Most of late runners had studs as they already knew what is going on when they were leaving service.

Eurosport had something like nine hours of live coverage of that day that was on their website and it was fantastic to watch that weekend from Chicago. If only there was coverage like that now.

Instead since there's no TV coverage at all in the US since we can't even get outside channels I'm going to use the forum. Really, with so many people on site or watching a variety of programs it's just as good but without the video.

[dimviii]

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/4756/montcarlo2013030.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Posts to prevent cuts, like in the IRC/ERC ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAf3xkECAAMEzEf.jpg

Forecast: -8 degrees & snow for rally!

[tommeke_B]

Posts to prevent cuts, like in the IRC/ERC ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAf3xkECAAMEzEf.jpg

Forecast: -8 degrees & snow for rally!
Like in the ERC/ERC?? In Ypres you don't see that, in Barum Rally it's also very rare to see things that prevent cutting. In Jänner there were these long poles everywhere (and sometimes poles to prevent cutting indeed), but aren't those longer poles just in order to see the road when there is fresh snow (nothing to do with the rally)? In Alsace (WRC) I've also seen similar things, to not let the road be destroyed. I've seen onboards from Finland (2011) with hay bales in several places to prevent cutting. It's not an IRC/ERC-thing... ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Thats according to WRC.com ...

WRC ‏@OfficialWRC (https://twitter.com/OfficialWRC) Big posts stopping 'cuts' if anyone hits one it's going to hurt! Photo St Bonnet

[Mirek]

Tommeke is right. Anti-cutting poles or other obstacles are common thing in most of asphalt events. The reason is that the edge of the road is very easy to destroy. They are used also in WRC if it is needed (Alsace sure and as Tom said I saw haybales for same use also in NORF). It depends on locals if they don't care about road damage or not. In Belgium such things are not used. Here they are (even in Barum but not everywhere).

The poles in Jänner were really of different purpose - only to show where the road is when there is a lot of new snow. That same poles were present in past editions of RMC too! Not everywhere but I remember them from Ardeche roads. In 2009 on stage Labatie d'Andaure (it is run this year) there was a pole of which seven cars broke their side mirrors. I have a photo in my flat but I'm not there now.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Poles must be fairly recent - I've been watching rallies since 1983 and only remember them appearing very recently and can only recall them on the IRC.

Are they to really to 'protect the road edges' or to stop mud and stones being dragged onto the asphalt and causing puntures to other cars ?

[dimviii]

Βοuffier
http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/740557_398877043531150_139391736_o.jpg

[A FONDO]

Are they to really to 'protect the road edges' or to stop mud and stones being dragged onto the asphalt and causing puntures to other cars ?

In Alsace 2011 they put them because in the previous year it was a muddy mess. In the recce Loeb damaged his Lancer trying to see how strong they are and if he would be able to cut them in the rally.

In the last hungarian IRC they put massive wooden logs. Some of them miraculously disappeared after the recce and local drivers posted stunning times in the first day. Later Turan hit one of them and it led him to a terrible roll.

[Kielder]

Interesting photo
http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/72588_418070594935700_1190193240_n.jpg

I think that stage isn't run in the same direction since 2003, under the name of "Les Quatre Chemins-Sigale". I wonder when that iconic place will return to the WRC. Hope next year!

[Cacatua]

Poles must be fairly recent - I've been watching rallies since 1983 and only remember them appearing very recently and can only recall them on the IRC.

Are they to really to 'protect the road edges' or to stop mud and stones being dragged onto the asphalt and causing puntures to other cars ?

Someone once told me that's a way to save money in cleaning the roads after the events.

[Kielder]

A different way to follow this rally will be this website: Diretta Rally - Rally Live Streaming - Rally di Monte Carlo 2013 - Diretta Live (http://www.direttarally.it/)
The Italian crew formed by Gianluca Cali and Sergio Raccuia will broadcast live from their onboard camera during the stages and the liaisons. Good luck to them!

http://i48.tinypic.com/52fiuo.jpg

[Mirek]

In Alsace 2011 they put them because in the previous year it was a muddy mess. In the recce Loeb damaged his Lancer trying to see how strong they are and if he would be able to cut them in the rally.

They used those unfortunate steel braces. Later some were bent and others took punctures from them (sure Hänninen).


Poles must be fairly recent - I've been watching rallies since 1983 and only remember them appearing very recently and can only recall them on the IRC.

Are they to really to 'protect the road edges' or to stop mud and stones being dragged onto the asphalt and causing puntures to other cars ?

I can speak only about the experience from here. Usually it is a condition from local authorities. Either You prevent cutting or they don't allow the stage.

[pantealex]

i wonder why all of them have rally cars on recce?

Those are not rallycars, factorydrivers have rollcage, but if you look at doors they are standars, vw have airbag in steering wheel, some have factory gps/navigator in.

Normal road cars with better seat and simple roll cage.

What is weird: all team use old model cars (Evo9, old S60 and Mk.6 golf)

[pucky54]

Βοuffier
http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/740557_398877043531150_139391736_o.jpg

Thats how a winning car looks like ;)

[satukata]

Bouffier ok driver, but slowest citroen wrc in monte ;)

[dimviii]

Thats how a winning car looks like ;)

old fashioned livery i would say (306 maxi)
Prefered something more fresh.

[satukata]

Weather in Saint-Bonnet-le-Froid - AccuWeather Forecast for Auvergne France (http://www.accuweather.com/en/fr/saint-bonnet-le-froid/157396/daily-weather-forecast/157396?day=1)

Snowfall from late Monday night into Tuesday afternoon will total 12-20 cm Accuweather. Good winter rally comeing!!

[rp]

What is weird: all team use old model cars (Evo9, old S60 and Mk.6 golf)

It´s not weird, because they need 4wd cars and there is no 4wd models available in their car category nowadays...

[dimviii]

drivers photos from recce
Photos Reconnaissances (Monte-Carlo 2013) (http://www.rallye-sport.fr/photos-reconnaissances-monte-carlo-2013/)

[Kielder]

If we see now the traditional photo taken in front of the Valence's bandstand last year, nothing remains the same. Eighteen "musicians" :p are missing and the rest of them will play different "instruments" or will act in a different role.

http://i47.tinypic.com/2hfjkfb.jpg

[Bartek]

Those are not rallycars, factorydrivers have rollcage, but if you look at doors they are standars, vw have airbag in steering wheel, some have factory gps/navigator in.

Normal road cars with better seat and simple roll cage.

What is weird: all team use old model cars (Evo9, old S60 and Mk.6 golf)

You have right but to be honest i can't understand why they have rollcage :) Ok they can have them but if they are "normal driviers" they must adhere to the road rules.... so if you driving 50km/h...

For me weird is that Citroen is using Mitsubishi cars not their own cars (for example they have DS3 R) :)

But ok, this is not the most important thing, i was only curious, maybe this can help them in something, better position in car or something

[dimviii]

they need 4wdrive cars.They have to drive at deep snow,mud,very bad gravel roads.A ds3 if you stop at a muddy uphill is not going to start.

[tommeke_B]

For the accuracy of the pacenotes it's better to have a car that feels the road well. Not on WRC-level, but Bernd Casier once told me that in Barum ('08 I think) he had a Mercedes A-Class as recce-car (rental car), and that his pacenotes were less accurate because the feeling he had with that "boat" wasn't comparable to how the road really was... Also the drivers in WRC have the same car for all events they can have a better and more objective view about the grip level etc.

[Andre Oliveira]

VW Golf is 4WD?

[logic]

VW Golf is 4WD?

The R34 is

[Mirek]

And Mikkelsen did a great show with it last year when he was a gravel crew for Ogier :D

[dimviii]

Delecour ice crew for Novikov

[Mad cat jnr]

Same as this year I believe Mirek

[RAS007]

Who is running Bouffier's car?

[Bartek]

Gravel crew is driving before stage start, yes? How many minutes before stage start?

[pucky54]

Who is running Bouffier's car?

PH Sport

[mousti]

Who is running Bouffier's car?

PHSport

[dimviii]

http://nsa29.casimages.com/img/2013/01/13/130113100833244560.jpghttp://nsa30.casimages.com/img/2013/01/13/13011310062753283.jpg

[dimviii]

http://nsa30.casimages.com/img/2013/01/13/130113100930187944.jpghttp://nsa29.casimages.com/img/2013/01/13/13011310125931271.jpghttp://nsa30.casimages.com/img/2013/01/13/13011310132729141.jpg

[vkangas]

Finnish names are hard, but still.... :rolleyes:

[pucky54]

Finnish names are hard, but still.... :rolleyes:

Poor VW!!

[A.F.F.]

Finnish names are hard, but still.... :rolleyes:

He is a co-driver... who cares right? :dozey:

[Jerra]

P1 and P2 drivers can use cars which complying with gr.N regulations during the recce. The main reason is reliability of these cars comparing to civil cars. These cars have racing: shocks, under gards, brakes and brake lines, co drivers equipment ( tripmaster, SatNav, WRC GPS tracking system), spare tyres, Hi jacks. Also on gravel and snow rallyes they can use racing tyres. On the WRC recce the main thing is time because they have schedule with limited time per SS and two passages for every SS. Recce is a most difficult job for the crew. Recce for top drivers with one weak civil car on the rough tough gravel rally is inappropriate. Dani Sordo has new recce car, Evo X ...

[pucky54]

He is a co-driver... who cares right? :dozey:

Pffff

[dimviii]

Finnish names are hard, but still.... :rolleyes:

lol havent noticed it!

[EightGear]

Pffff

I am quite sure that mister A.F.F. was being sarcastic. ;)

[pucky54]

I am quite sure that mister A.F.F. was being sarcastic. ;)

Of course he was, me too ;)

[ToughMac]

Poor VW!!

Looks like somebody is getting fired tomorrow!

[Kielder]

http://nsa29.casimages.com/img/2013/01/13/130113100833244560.jpg

Who sings the song "I Gotta Feeling"? Is it Ten Years After :D ?

http://i47.tinypic.com/8zjrcm.jpg

[Juha_Koo]

Finnish names are hard, but still.... :rolleyes:

Well, luckily the surname is right and not "Antilla" as often seen...

On the other hand, nice to see that VW has appreciation to both crew members and they show it (visible in their webpage for example).

[keng]

I don't see kubica mentioned any where? Or he's not joining?

[andyone]

Good luck to my best driver jarimatti latvala. I hope you finish this one on the top 3.. Good luck to vw. Good luck to mads ostberg and novikov and ford.. Three drivers to put happiness on the fans.. Let the game begin.

[Mirek]

I don't see kubica mentioned any where? Or he's not joining?

No, You have to wait for Rally Islas Canarias of the ERC where he is supposed to appear.

[stefanvv]

Who sings the song "I Gotta Feeling"? Is it Ten Years After :D ?

Good point, but on the picture below I see 3 champions, on the above it is only 1 ;)

[tommeke_B]

I don't know if someone has put this here already, if someone did I didn't read it... An interesting part from the regulations to know:

Maximum tyres allowed for WRC-priority:
- Soft 30
- Supersoft 20
- Snow studs 10
- Snow no studs 20
- Total max. 45 (shakedown included, if you don't drive shakedown only 40)

Maximum tyres for non-priority (all other WRC, S2000 and R4) and P3:
- Soft 30
- Supersoft 12
- Snow studs 8
- Snow no studs 20
- Total max. 37 (shakedown included, if you don't drive shakedown only 32)

Also, like in most countries I think, it's forbidden to have two drifferent tyres on the same axle. So if someone wants to go for a "cross-type" option they will have to change tyres on one side just before the start of a stage and just after finish of a stage, as it's not legal to drive "cross-type" on road section.

Oh, and if you add spikes on your tyres manually you get a 30 minutes penalty :D

So even if it's full snow, it's all about strategy...

[Kielder]

I am convinced that St Bonnet won't disappoint us. Photos from this morning:

http://nsa30.casimages.com/img/2013/01/14/130114091206195395.jpg
http://nsa29.casimages.com/img/2013/01/14/130114085751788417.jpg

[Jerra]

I don't know if someone has put this here already, if someone did I didn't read it... An interesting part from the regulations to know:

Maximum tyres allowed for WRC-priority:
- Soft 30
- Supersoft 20
- Snow studs 10
- Snow no studs 20
- Total max. 45 (shakedown included, if you don't drive shakedown only 40)

Maximum tyres for non-priority (all other WRC, S2000 and R4) and P3:
- Soft 30
- Supersoft 12
- Snow studs 8
- Snow no studs 20
- Total max. 37 (shakedown included, if you don't drive shakedown only 32)

Also, like in most countries I think, it's forbidden to have two drifferent tyres on the same axle. So if someone wants to go for a "cross-type" option they will have to change tyres on one side just before the start of a stage and just after finish of a stage, as it's not legal to drive "cross-type" on road section.

Oh, and if you add spikes on your tyres manually you get a 30 minutes penalty :D

So even if it's full snow, it's all about strategy...

According to Bulletin No.1 max is 40 with shakedown for WRC cars and 36 for P3 and others 4wd cars

[Mirek]

The limit on tyres with studs is ridiculous.

[Kielder]

Same livery for Qatar M-Sport WRT & Qatar WRT:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/393010_397678640325171_10354116_n.jpg

[RS]

Bouffier ok driver, but slowest citroen wrc in monte ;)

Realistically yes, providing Mikko speeds up a bit from last year's Monte.

Anyone know, has Bouffier even driven a WRCar competitively before?

[Francis44]

You guys rank Mikko way too high here in MC. Last year in the second half of the season he had some less than welcome results.

Loeb and Sordo are easily faster, Bouffier might surprise him aswell.

[Mirek]

Anyone know, has Bouffier even driven a WRCar competitively before?

I think never.

[tommeke_B]

You guys rank Mikko way too high here in MC. Last year in the second half of the season he had some less than welcome results.

Loeb and Sordo are easily faster, Bouffier might surprise him aswell.
Maybe you are wrong in stead of all the others? ;)

@Jerra, I don't know, what I typed is from the regulations from the website of the rally... Would be strange if they say different. But ok, the most important notice is the number of studded tyres that is too low... The question is not if you should use them, the question is when... Looks like it will be a lottery like almost all years, but in a different way now.

[rage82]

Gravel crew is driving before stage start, yes? How many minutes before stage start?

From FIA regulations:
"11.4 ROUTE NOTE CARS11.4.1 For sections of a rally run entirely on asphalt, one route note car may be used for each driver
entered with a World Rally car.
Such cars shall:
- Contain no more than 2 persons.
- Comply with the requirements for reconnaissance cars as in Art. 25.1.
- Carry any required FIA signage on each front door including ‘Safe Drive’ logos.
- Operate the speed control device as used during reconnaissance.
- Respect the speed limit for the special stages which will be announced by the clerk of the course.
- Operate within a schedule issued by the organisers and run under the authority of the clerk of the course.
- Respect the list of route note exchange points which may be issued by the clerk of the course.
- Cover no more than one passage of each special stage.
- In no way interfere with the schedule of the rally.
- Be used only for drivers who did not retire during the event.
11.4.2 The rally organisation may also run its own route note car to provide advisory route notes for the
other competitors. "

[6789]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wx3A309cx3E

[Francis44]

Maybe you are wrong in stead of all the others? ;)


Of course, that is just my opinion, and it's worth what is worth ;) , same as everyone else's.

[Jerra]

They changed max number of tyres with Bulletin No.1 from December 17th. You can find in Documents downloading section on the official web. Regulation came long time ago and is subject of corrections. I am especially surprised with number of snow tyres, only 10!

[Mirek]

From FIA regulations:
"11.4 ROUTE NOTE CARS11.4.1 For sections of a rally run entirely on asphalt, one route note car may be used for each driver
entered with a World Rally car.
Such cars shall:
- Contain no more than 2 persons.
- Comply with the requirements for reconnaissance cars as in Art. 25.1.
- Carry any required FIA signage on each front door including ‘Safe Drive’ logos.
- Operate the speed control device as used during reconnaissance.
- Respect the speed limit for the special stages which will be announced by the clerk of the course.
- Operate within a schedule issued by the organisers and run under the authority of the clerk of the course.
- Respect the list of route note exchange points which may be issued by the clerk of the course.
- Cover no more than one passage of each special stage.
- In no way interfere with the schedule of the rally.
- Be used only for drivers who did not retire during the event.
11.4.2 The rally organisation may also run its own route note car to provide advisory route notes for the
other competitors. "

If I remember right gravel crews usually drive through stage in cca two hours before start and the last ones disappear around one hour to start. They need to finish the stage before the crew leave service park.

[rallye-sport]

Update Service Park -> http://www.rallye-sport.fr/le-parc-de-valence-sinstalle/

http://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-content/gallery/valence-monte-carlo-2013/mg_9008.jpg


http://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-content/gallery/valence-monte-carlo-2013/mg_8974.jpg


http://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-content/gallery/valence-monte-carlo-2013/mg_8971.jpg

[Jerra]

Those drivers portraits on the VW truck scare me ... Not good idea from designer

[EightGear]

Same livery for Qatar M-Sport WRT & Qatar WRT:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/393010_397678640325171_10354116_n.jpg

That's a bit of a shame: 4 cars with exactly the same livery. And in Sweden it will be 5...

[RS]

If the Fords have the same livery who is paying the bills for Hanninen? Qatar also?

[satukata]

You guys rank Mikko way too high here in MC. Last year in the second half of the season he had some less than welcome results.

Loeb and Sordo are easily faster, Bouffier might surprise him aswell.

If there is full snow stages Mikko will be very fast. :D

[satukata]

Hänninen´s sponsors pay to msport

[amilk]

That's a bit of a shame: 4 cars with exactly the same livery. And in Sweden it will be 5...

Happy to see so much Ford - the last thing the livery

[EightGear]

Happy to see so much Ford - the last thing the livery

Yes of course but 5 cars with the same livery is a bit ridiculous. Some difference in the colours between Qatar M-Sport and Qatar WRT would be better.

But the fact that there are still a lot of Ford's is good, obviously.

[rage82]

If I remember right gravel crews usually drive through stage in cca two hours before start and the last ones disappear around one hour to start. They need to finish the stage before the crew leave service park.
I think you are right. The last gravel crews disappear hour, hour and a half before the start of the SS. Not so sure about that they have to finish the stage before the leaving of the service park because I think they have some spots along the road sections where they can exchanege the notes.

[Kielder]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/16604_4832344538081_123331732_n.jpg

[Mirek]

I think you are right. The last gravel crews disappear hour, hour and a half before the start of the SS. Not so sure about that they have to finish the stage before the leaving of the service park because I think they have some spots along the road sections where they can exchanege the notes.

Sure but for tyre choice You need to know the situation sooner.

[satukata]

what you think about Juho Hänninen´s changes in monte?

wrc.com "Seasoned competitor Juho Hanninen, of the Qatar M-Sport WRT, is the pick of the Fiesta pilots and has podium potential."

Podium changes?

[EightGear]

what you think about Juho Hänninen´s changes in monte?

wrc.com "Seasoned competitor Juho Hanninen, of the Qatar M-Sport WRT, is the pick of the Fiesta pilots and has podium potential."

Podium changes?

I really hope so, but it seems unlikely for his first start with the Fiesta... If he had done some events in the Fiesta prior to Monte I think he could really challenge for the podium.
On the other hand, he is one of more experienced competitors on the Monte, especially during recent years (except last year).

[rage82]

Sure but for tyre choice You need to know the situation sooner.
Agree!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hänninen´s sponsors pay to msport

Is M-Sport prepping all the Fords ?

Whats the difference between Qatar M-Sport & Qatar WRT ?

[Mirek]

If the Fords have the same livery who is paying the bills for Hanninen? Qatar also?

There is big Nisula sticker on the car of Juho.

[satukata]

I hope all the best for Juho

[bluuford]

Weather for tomorrow shakedown:
Night will be cold, approximately -3 degrees.
Temperature is -0.5 degrees at the beginning of shakedown climbs to 0 by 10 AM and +1.5 by 12.

Light snow starts around 7 AM and it turns to stronger snowfall by 8 AM, should end between 10 and 11 (Maybe with light rain). 3-5 cm fresh snow should be there by that time.

The information for the second day looks interesting: Stage 2, 4 should be 100% under snowcover, temperature as low as -8 degrees. Stage 1 a bit warmer, but still most of the stage under the light snowcover and maybe some of it has turned to ice overnight.

[dimviii]

The limit on tyres with studs is ridiculous.

agree!! figure out if you have to run mixed stages and destroy them at some km without snow.

[bluuford]

Tomorrow we are going to see all the top drivers on normal snow tyres (without studs) to test how do drive on those and to save proper tires.. I guess.
I think that we are going to see a lot of mixed sets.. 2 snow+ 2 studs should help to survive 5 different tyre changes. If here is someone going really fast at the beginning then we might expect that he is not so fast by the end (when they run out of proper tires).

[Kielder]

A classic man on the right :up: :

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAlCCsqCcAEyvJA.jpg:large

[tolis]

rallysport.hu - Monte Carlo Rallye 2012 - szerviz (http://www.rallysport.hu/images/2013/photo/wrc/01_monte/01_service/index.htm)

[stefanvv]

rallysport.hu - Monte Carlo Rallye 2012 - szerviz (http://www.rallysport.hu/images/2013/photo/wrc/01_monte/01_service/index.htm)

Great photos, but the year is not correct :D

[makinen_fan]

Finnish names are hard, but still.... :rolleyes:

Miikka's name fixed today!

http://www.rallysport.hu/images/2013/photo/wrc/01_monte/01_service/images/RSHU_Photo_005_jpg.jpg

[Kielder]

http://nsa30.casimages.com/img/2013/01/13/13011310062753283.jpg

Fast and silent ( :wave: VW):

http://www.rallysport.hu/images/2013/photo/wrc/01_monte/01_service/images/RSHU_Photo_005_jpg.jpg

[pantealex]

Update Service Park -> Photos Rallye Monte-Carlo 2013 (http://www.rallye-sport.fr/le-parc-de-valence-sinstalle/)



Ford:
picture 2 "Endless" in front bumber
picture 3 "M-Sport" in front bumber

so bit difference in liverys!

in other gallery we can that also in doors can be diferent text "Nisula" in Juho and M-Sport in Thierrys car.

It looks like Citroens also have same colors for both teams.

[alleskids]

Is M-Sport prepping all the Fords ?

Whats the difference between Qatar M-Sport & Qatar WRT ?

there is no difference.
Qatar M-Sport WRT Ostberg/Novikov is entered as an Manufacturer team, as M-Sport is regulation-technical reconized as a manufacturer, replacing Ford, but still the same team, and almost the same support from Ford, only not in full public

Qatar WRT Al Attiyah/Neuville /Hannine is entered as an M2 team

so Qatar Ford has 2 teams scoring points, just as Abu Dhabi Citroen has 2 teams entering the 2013 WRC

[Salist]

MTV3 and MTV Max WRC TV Schedule in Finland

Tuesday 15
2245-2300 MTV3 MAX Preview

Wednesday 16
1930-2000 MTV3 MAX Highlights
2230-2300 MTV3 MAX Highlights

Thursday 17
1930-2000 MTV3 MAX Highlights
2230-2300 MTV3 MAX Highlights

Friday 18
1930-2000 MTV3 MAX Highlights
2230-2300 MTV3 MAX Highlights
2235-2245 MTV Rally Extra
0200-0230 MTV Highlights

Saturday 19

2000-2015 MTV MAX Rally Update
2230-2300 MTV MAX Highlights
2230-2240 MTV Rally Extra
0235-0305 MTV Highlights

Source: http://irallylive.com

[Andre Oliveira]

Beautifull livery of Maurin

[V.Gatev]

Is there some live streaming of MTV Max?

[Salist]

May be here: mtv3 max - live streaming video powered by Livestream (http://www.livestream.com/mtv3max)


Is there some live streaming of MTV Max?

[Bartek]

Bryan is with other Citroens or alone with PH Sport?

I can't wait , hope we will see great rally

[V.Gatev]

This evening on Servus TV - Rally Monte Carlo Preview (22:35). There is live streaming on Servus TV website.

[Juha_Koo]

Has anyone got any sightings of onboard cameras? Filmworks was supposed to have completely new onboard camera system, but I can't see any cams attached to the cars yet... 2012 was horrible onboard-wise compared to previous years.

[dimviii]

http://distilleryimage0.instagram.com/94b44d4e5e6511e2a97322000a1fb158_7.jpghttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAlYY6UCAAA0YLe.jpg

[Rasantes]

Julian Porter ‏@The_Rally_Guru (https://twitter.com/The_Rally_Guru/status/290880216518258688)


Just had a meeting with the Monte organisers, the snow was so bad in SS11 today that some cars couldn't pass through the stage on recce!!!

[stefanvv]

Julian Porter ‏@The_Rally_Guru (https://twitter.com/The_Rally_Guru/status/290880216518258688)


Just had a meeting with the Monte organisers, the snow was so bad in SS11 today that some cars couldn't pass through the stage on recce!!!

Everybody want more snow, there you go...

[EightGear]

http://distilleryimage0.instagram.com/94b44d4e5e6511e2a97322000a1fb158_7.jpg

Ok, why does Thierry do this? He's older than 14, right?

[Gregor-y]

Look on the bright side. He's dressed.

[Juha_Koo]

Ok, why does Thierry do this? He's older than 14, right?

Well, the picture is from his Instagram account, pretty normal photo for Instagram. Atleast he doesn't have #rally #swag hashtags there... :-P


Look on the bright side. He's dressed.
LOL :D

[stefanvv]

Servus TV schedule for Monte Carlo:
14.01 22:35 - Preview
19.01 10:35 - Highlights from Friday
20.01 00:10 - Highlights from Saturday
21.01 22:35, 22.01 01:30 - Highlights from the weekend

live streaming - ServusTV - Wir wünschen Ihnen bessere Unterhaltung (http://www.servustv.com/cs/Satellite/Home-ServusTV.at/001259088496182)

[Jerra]

Just had a meeting with the Monte organisers, the snow was so bad in SS11 today that some cars couldn't pass through the stage on recce!!!

So, RMC seems to be proper test for Sweden...

[pantealex]

Neuville has RedBull stickers
Loeb has RedBull helmet

So we have RedBull in every team, nice!

[Franky]

Ok, why does Thierry do this? He's older than 14, right?

Looking at the photo I've got doubts that the guy is older than 15.

[Andre Oliveira]

This sh*t of french rules about plates. Rally car get uglier with that black number. And the numbers on doors... could be big square white like the oldies? ;)

[Mad cat jnr]

Ok, why does Thierry do this? He's older than 14, right?

Because he is a normal guy that does his rallying because its his love and passion! Not a jumped up wannabe who thinks the world shines from his arse!

I have really grown to like him lately with his casual approach and willingness to enjoy it!

[EightGear]

Because he is a normal guy that does his rallying because its his love and passion! Not a jumped up wannabe who thinks the world shines from his arse!

I have really grown to like him lately with his casual approach and willingness to enjoy it!

Cool down, I'm not attacking him, just wondering why he is taking bathroom-mirror-pictures that I usually only see when I''m accidently logged in on my sisters facebook. :D