Grand Prix of 'meri-cuh! 2013 (New Jersey)

[gloomyDAY]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bug18V2yxP4

Looks pretty good. Let's ditch Valencia for this circuit, thank you!

[Hawkmoon]

I agree with you regarding Valencia but the New Jersey layout doesn't look that good. I also don't think we'll ever see a New Jersey GP. Sooner or later F1 is going to get the point that the US simply isn't interested in F1. Sure there are plenty of F1 fans in the US but it's a 'cult' sport. Like American football in Australia there simply aren't enough fans to generate enough corporate interest to generate the funding required to pay Bernie his filthy lucre.

[zako85]

Like American football in Australia there simply aren't enough fans to generate enough corporate interest to generate the funding required to pay Bernie his filthy lucre.


I think the issue is the fans at traditional F1 venues as well as USA now have to compete against government subsidies for F1 tracks in places like Bahrain and Russia. American fans had no problem filling the huge Indianapolis stadium, but it was still not enough for Bernie.

[truefan72]

I'm not holding my breath that the NJ GP will actually happen

[gloomyDAY]

I think the issue is the fans at traditional F1 venues as well as USA now have to compete against government subsidies for F1 tracks in places like Bahrain and Russia. American fans had no problem filling the huge Indianapolis stadium, but it was still not enough for Bernie.Absolutely right! Do Americans love F1? Yes. Are we going to let Bernie put a gun to our heads and extort an outrageous amount of money for us? Hell no! I see this race as a one and done kind of deal. I doubt the contract will be honored for the duration of 10 years.

[TheFamousEccles]

The Grand Prix of New Joisy? That's absoid. (sorry - I just love the New Jersy accent - reminds me of the Bugs Bunny show.... :D

[DexDexter]

I agree with you regarding Valencia but the New Jersey layout doesn't look that good. I also don't think we'll ever see a New Jersey GP. Sooner or later F1 is going to get the point that the US simply isn't interested in F1. Sure there are plenty of F1 fans in the US but it's a 'cult' sport. Like American football in Australia there simply aren't enough fans to generate enough corporate interest to generate the funding required to pay Bernie his filthy lucre.

I thought that already happened like years ago.

[SGWilko]

the US simply isn't interested in F1.

Yep - they've done this arse about face. First shove a decent American in an F1 race seat, then bring the 'series' to a decent track that'll show the cars at their racing best.

[SGWilko]

The Grand Prix of New Joisy? That's absoid. (sorry - I just love the New Jersy accent - reminds me of the Bugs Bunny show.... :D

Spring has sprung, the grass has riz.......

[D28]

Interesting story in Motorsport by Gordon Kirby on Bernie's misreading of the US F1 scene decades ago.There is such a thing as a bad car - Opinion - Motor Sport Magazine (http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/opinion/bernies-strategic-american-blunder/there) are about 330 m Americans and at least some of them are interested in F1. In late 70s Watkins Glen attracted 80,000 fans easily with practically no facilities at all. Some permanent facility on either coast could be sucessful in the long term, but not likely NJ. Prudence would suggest 1 USGP, not 2 after such a long absence.

[D28]

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/opinion/bernies-strategic-american-blunder/Sorry am having computer difficulties, This is the link by Gordon Kirby

[D28]

Bernie (http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/opinion/bernies-strategic-american-blunder/)

This is an interesting story by Gordon Kirby on Bernie's misreading of the US F1 scene.

There are 330 m Americans and a least some of them are interested, Watkins Glen attracted 85,000 fans in the 70s with practically no facilities at all. A permanent circuit on either coast could be successful in the long term, but probably not NJ. Prudence would suggest 1 USGP for now, not 2.

[Malbec]

Absolutely right! Do Americans love F1? Yes. Are we going to let Bernie put a gun to our heads and extort an outrageous amount of money for us? Hell no! I see this race as a one and done kind of deal. I doubt the contract will be honored for the duration of 10 years.

I've heard that the ticket prices for the Austin race are unbelievable.

Having said that IIRC Bernie was so desperate to get into the American market that Indy paid less than other tracks in places like China for their race but surely his biggest problem is TV access. No mainstream American TV channel will want to carry F1 at the prices Bernie wants especially since NASCAR and Indy rights are so much cheaper, but Bernie can't afford to cut a bargain basement deal because other TV companies around the world would complain.

[DexDexter]

Bernie (http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/opinion/bernies-strategic-american-blunder/)

This is an interesting story by Gordon Kirby on Bernie's misreading of the US F1 scene.

There are 330 m Americans and a least some of them are interested, Watkins Glen attracted 85,000 fans in the 70s with practically no facilities at all. A permanent circuit on either coast could be successful in the long term, but probably not NJ. Prudence would suggest 1 USGP for now, not 2.

Can you name one international sport that is really big in America? I cannot think of any, maybe olympics? It just a fact of life that Americans want to have their own sports and it's really difficult for any international sport to challenge that.

One thing that may help F1 grow in the States is the ever-increasing Hispanic population. Many of them know what F1 is and have heard about Sennas and Piquets etc.

[Firstgear]

Can you name one international sport that is really big in America?.
What's your definition of 'really big'?
I believe tennis and golf are as big in the US as anywhere else.
Hockey is big too, in some parts of the country.

[DexDexter]

What's your definition of 'really big'?
I believe tennis and golf are as big in the US as anywhere else.
Hockey is big too, in some parts of the country.

You're right about golf, I was just referring to the big four American sports baseball, American football, basketball and hockey, none of which have a similar standing outside the States.

BTW I don't know if hockey can be considered an international sport since it's the biggest sport in only two countries of the world; Finland and Canada. ( Ok maybe the Czech Republic) :)

[N. Jones]

TWO US circuits on the calendar? I don't think that will work but we will see.

[D28]

BTW I don't know if hockey can be considered an international sport since it's the biggest sport in only two countries of the world; Finland and Canada. ( Ok maybe the Czech Republic) :)

There is an outfit called IIHF which run a World Championship each spring plus the Olympic tournament, currently Russia is champ.

Your point is taken re world sports, Americans tend to concentrate on the ones developed stateside and exported to parts of the world,baseball, basketball and certainly American football. World football (soccer) is as distant as ever from becoming a mass media US sport.

As is F1 racing. But not to despair, even 1% of the populace makes for 3 m potential viewers. In its heyday 60s and 70s F1 was then only a niche sport, but still produced 2 American World Champions. It could have been 3 had Dan Gurney pursued a relentless goal of becoming WC in 1966.

F1 can never rival NASCAR now, it ceded too many years advantage by flitting from Phoenix, Las Vegas, Dallas etc. It still could be a sport with a cult following, not mass media but still important. NASCAR has come up with a brilliant marketing strategy, selling racing plus RV camping, tailgate parties, BBQ, country-rock music, easy accessibility to cars, drivers, family fun and more.
Bernie's strategy if you can call it that, has been the antithesis of this. it seems doubtful he even wishes to appeal to that socio-economic strata; his goal is to see F1 races in an urban setting like Montreal or NJ.

If F1 is ever to gain a foothold in US again, It will be at a permanent designated track, not an urban street circuit IMO.

[jarrambide]

What's your definition of 'really big'?
I believe tennis and golf are as big in the US as anywhere else.
Hockey is big too, in some parts of the country.

He said international sport, not canuck footy.

Just joking :D , I like hockey myself, unfortunately, I have to drive to Dallas to see NHL hockey, Houston only has an AHL team.

I would not call hockey an international sport, if it is, then baseball is an international sport, they have pro leagues in Venezuela, Japan, Korea, Mexico, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, and Panama, and I would not call it big, they have grea, attendance in Chicago (even better than the Canadian cities), Philly and Detroit, but the TV ratings are still crappy in the country, maybe more crappy than before, Versus games averaged 350,000 viewers on 2011, on 2011, SPEED was averaging a little more than 600,000 viewers for their live races, that doesn't count all the fans that DVR the races because they don't want to wake up early in the morning,way more than hockey, Mexican soccer averages 900,000 viewers in the US, and they pretty much show all the ir games, and I just googled the Mexican National team and they usually get close to 4 million people in the US.

After googling that, I would like to know if after 2 podiums for Sergio Perez the F1 races improve in the US because of he Mexican fans, I would also like to see how many Mexican fans are buying F1 tickets for Austin, but I doubt an AMerican driver could improve F1 in the US that much if it has the results Scott Speed had.

They love

[AndyL]

BTW I don't know if hockey can be considered an international sport

Hockey is certainly an international sport - the International Hockey Federation has 116 member countries, the sport has been played at almost every Olympics since 1908, and Olympic medals have been won by 20 different nations from 6 continents.

Or was Firstgear referring to ice hockey? ;)

[Firstgear]

Hockey is certainly an international sport - the International Hockey Federation has 116 member countries, the sport has been played at almost every Olympics since 1908, and Olympic medals have been won by 20 different nations from 6 continents.

Or was Firstgear referring to ice hockey? ;)

Yes, I was referring to "Ice Hockey"

But when you say "Hockey" what are you referring to? :p

Field Hockey
Indoor Hockey - Field Hockey Indoors
Mini Hockey - Field Hockey with a minimum of 5 players on each team including Goalkeeper.
Ice hockey
Inline hockey (Single Bladed Weels)
Roller Hockey (Quad Wheels)
Street hockey - (played the same as ice hockey with the same gear (excluding inline skates) but usually on a street or other paved area [not recommended to play in traffic])
Unicycle Hockey
UniHoc - Played with plastic sticks (both sides flat) and plastic hollow ball as an introduction to hockey also known as FloorBall or Floor Hockey
Bandy - in some ways field hockey on ice
PowerHockey - a form of hockey played in electric wheelchairs for disabled people
Underwater Hockey
Shinty - Scottish from of hockey played in the highlands
Hurling or Camogie - there are some resembalance to Hockey

[schmenke]

Event attendance figures are secondary.
It’s the television audience that Bernie is after. This, along with the contract agreements to host the events, is from where the majority of F1 revenues are generated. Revenues from ticket sales are tiny in comparison, especially since the event host receives much of these.
A venue such as China is a good example. Ticket sales are paltry but the FOM still receives millions in revenues due to a world-wide television audience.
A US GP will attract a huge television audience, especially since the event broadcast is ideally timed for both the American and European audiences, the latter of which will view it more-or-less evening prime time.

Speed TV (Fox) typically had full broadcast rights to the previous US GP the events.

[truefan72]

One thing that may help F1 grow in the States is the ever-increasing Hispanic population. Many of them know what F1 is and have heard about Sennas and Piquets etc.

you are wrong on that point.
The burgeoning Hispanic population is not from 30-55 yr old males flowing into the country, but from american born kids and young adults of Hispanic origin.
They are actually more interested in the traditional US sports and even baseball struggles to appeal to these kids. Let alone Soccer, let alone F1. That's like saying Irish and Italian american kids love rugby and soccer respectively...they don't

[jarrambide]

you are wrong on that point.
The burgeoning Hispanic population is not from 30-55 yr old males flowing into the country, but from american born kids and young adults of Hispanic origin.
They are actually more interested in the traditional US sports and even baseball struggles to appeal to these kids. Let alone Soccer, let alone F1. That's like saying Irish and Italian american kids love rugby and soccer respectively...they don't

I think you are wrong, they do love soccer, they just don't like Major League Soccer, have you seen the ratings for the Mexican League?, another thing is that thye love any Mexican superstar, just like at that Chicharito guy, which is good but overrated if you ask me, I am curious to see if Sergio Perez will change the tv ratings in the US.

[Mia 01]

will this event ever get the go?

[Hawkmoon]

I've been to Italy a few times and many people seem to believe Ferrari is like a religion to most of the population, but in my experience F1 is more popular in the north of the country with people in the south not so bothered. Football appears more important and more passionately followed in a greater proportion in my experience there. I think what people want you to believe on forums is very different to what is actually true. :)

If we only look at the motorsport fans in Italy I think it's safe to say that Ferrari and F1 are preeminent. If we look at the motorsports fans in the US then F1 is barely an after thought compared to NASCAR and probably doesn't even rate higher than Indy Cars. F1 will never be the preeminent form of motorsport in the US as NASCAR is on the TV every weekend and F1 just once a year. F1 is nothing more than an expensive novelty and the only reason to race there is because it has a large consumer base.

[D28]

.. F1 will never be the preeminent form of motorsport in the US as NASCAR is on the TV every weekend and F1 just once a year. F1 is nothing more than an expensive novelty and the only reason to race there is because it has a large consumer base.

This is essentially correct. In 1980 when F1 left Watkins Glen, NASCAR was only a niche sport, popular in the South East. Few would have predicted it would become the preeminent series, eclipsing Indy Car and road racing. NASCAR overcame its regional base with brilliant marketing strategy aided by a complete lack of any strategy for Indy Car and certainly F1. I can think of only one urban, or street circuit NASCAR visits, they have a Nationwide race at circuit Gilles Villeneuve in Montreal. The other circuits involve people actually driving to the race, or like Indy they are permanent tracks in or near a city.
They clearly aim their product at people who drive and own motor vehicles.
The other advantage NASCAR has is greatly reduced expenses and hence ticket prices, making it affordable for a large slice of the populace.

These are realities F1 must deal with in attempting to gain a toehold in USA. Perhaps they need a complete overhaul of their marketing plan, but this will have to wait for the end of Bernies's stewardship IMO.

[DexDexter]

I've been to Italy a few times and many people seem to believe Ferrari is like a religion to most of the population, but in my experience F1 is more popular in the north of the country with people in the south not so bothered. Football appears more important and more passionately followed in a greater proportion in my experience there. I think what people want you to believe on forums is very different to what is actually true. :)

I agree, based on my travels in the south.

[Dave B]

I've been to Italy a few times and many people seem to believe Ferrari is like a religion to most of the population, but in my experience F1 is more popular in the north of the country with people in the south not so bothered. Football appears more important and more passionately followed in a greater proportion in my experience there. I think what people want you to believe on forums is very different to what is actually true. :)
The one time I went to Italy, the owner of the guest house we frequented in the village of Lesmo didn't know there was a Grand Prix on that weekend. Make of that what you will.

[DexDexter]

The one time I went to Italy, the owner of the guest house we frequented in the village of Lesmo didn't know there was a Grand Prix on that weekend. Make of that what you will.

There are many sports-related stereotypes. Personally an interesting one for me is that us Finns are somehow mad about rallying, that's often brought up by foreigners. Neste Rally Finland attracts a lot of spectators but rallying in itself is not a big sport in this country.

[call_me_andrew]

F1 Chief Bernie Ecclestone not optimistic about New Jersey race happening next year | From the Marbles - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nascar-from-the-marbles/f1-chief-bernie-ecclestone-not-optimistic-jersey-race-210849563--nascar.html;_ylt=Apn5OCrn59A6JCb5lvhFnNzov7YF)

Is Bernie stupid or something?

Usually when a buisnessman isn't certain about something, he reveals nothing to the public, but not our Bernie.

[jarrambide]

F1 Chief Bernie Ecclestone not optimistic about New Jersey race happening next year | From the Marbles - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nascar-from-the-marbles/f1-chief-bernie-ecclestone-not-optimistic-jersey-race-210849563--nascar.html;_ylt=Apn5OCrn59A6JCb5lvhFnNzov7YF)

Is Bernie stupid or something?

Usually when a buisnessman isn't certain about something, he reveals nothing to the public, but not our Bernie.

He is anything but stupid, that is how he plays hardball, if he wants something, he threats publicly with the race not happening.

[schmenke]

Does Bernie not say something similar about all new venues? :mark:

[anthonyvop]

you are wrong on that point.
The burgeoning Hispanic population is not from 30-55 yr old males flowing into the country, but from american born kids and young adults of Hispanic origin.
They are actually more interested in the traditional US sports and even baseball struggles to appeal to these kids. Let alone Soccer, let alone F1. That's like saying Irish and Italian american kids love rugby and soccer respectively...they don't

You do know that MLB set all-time attendance records last year...don't ya? The NFL still rules the roost and all those new "Extreme" sports have pretty much remained stagnant.

[steveaki13]

It does seem Bernie plays the same game for every new track that comes along.

Announces the race and how it will be great for F1 and the operators are doing great things.

Then says nah its rubbish they can't hold a race. They need to work quicker and invest more.

Then it normally ends up complete and him complementing what a wonderful job the organisors have done.


Bernie = Mind Games.

[TheFamousEccles]

It does seem Bernie plays the same game for every new track that comes along.

Announces the race and how it will be great for F1 and the operators are doing great things.

Then says nah its rubbish they can't hold a race. They need to work quicker and invest more.

Then it normally ends up complete and him complementing what a wonderful job the organisors have done.


Bernie = Mind Games.

Has it ever been so....