What about only retiring at the age of 80?! [Archive]

Rollo

4th June 2012, 22:29

Maybe it's because states have been busily doing their best to abrogate their previous responsibilities in owning infrastructure and once they're able to do away with state pensions, retiring at... well never, will be out of necessity.

I can already see for instance that at some point before I get to retirement age, some majorly catastrophic event will wipe out the value of people's superannuation funds and everything I will have set aside for 50+ years will become totally worthless. Some hyper-inflation event has the potential to make even people who were millionaires, holders of bits of paper with lots of zeroes on them but still unable to buy bread with it.

Governments generally are my enemy and Corporations are not my friend; we're already on the road into a world where the baby boomers will have already spent the wealth and bugger any generations after them.

race aficionado

4th June 2012, 22:52

Seriously . . . for you guys that are actually seeing (or hoping) retirement in the future . . . . will it be for real? really??
???

Big Ben

4th June 2012, 23:30

I'm not surprised tbh. I'm pretty sure it's the nature of his 'job' that made him think he could be doing it well into his 80s.

Rollo

5th June 2012, 01:00

I'm not surprised tbh. I'm pretty sure it's the nature of his 'job' that made him think he could be doing it well into his 80s.

Is it more of a case of arrogance because he knows that he'll be able to retire reasonably early, whilst his company merrily goes about screwing up the world royally.

After raping the American people's wallets for $170 billion in what amounts to state welfare in in taxpayer bailouts, AIG had the gall to then pay $1.2 billion out in "bonuses"
American Inconscionable Group | Fox Business (http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2009/03/17/american-inconscionable-group/)

Roamy

5th June 2012, 01:02

gadjo_dilo

5th June 2012, 09:15

life expectancy for romanian males is well below that number so I guess I'm not ready to work till I'm 80.... but I'm prepared to give it a go. They'll have to adjust a bit my schedule for the later part of my career. I shall want to be at work at 6 am the latest... and have at least 3 breaks for naps during the day.

No offence but when you'll be in your 70's you'll probably leave home at 6am and on your way to work you'll forget why you left.

If you don't have expectations of that age I suggest to stop paying those annoying and quite high contributions to the pension fund.

Malbec

5th June 2012, 11:45

Are You Ready to Work Until You (http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/ready-until-80-172821954.html)

It just shows that some people, like the AIG CEO are out of touch with reality.
We do not have jobs for the young even with people retiring at 60, yet some idiot thinks that 80 is what it should really be.

He didn't say he WANTED a retirement age of 80, he stated that for future retirees (ie us) to carry on receiving the same level of pensions our parents and grandparents received on a sustainable basis then thats the age we'd have to retire at.

Unfortunately he's right or close enough. Its pure demographics. Given that the number of retirees compared to workers is shooting up how else would you expect to ensure that the retirees don't get less in the future? Either the workers pay more or you raise the retirement age or both, and that is exactly what governments around the world are having to do.

Old people do not generally compete with young people for jobs. Old people are usually much more skilled and experienced but are manually far less capable than school leavers and graduates and therefore are mostly employed in completely different roles. The comparison with the Middle East is nonsense, their young people don't have jobs because a) their governments promoted a stupidly high birth rate and b) the same governments have obstructed economic development that would otherwise have employed those youngsters. Once the global economy picks up again there will be more jobs all round in most balanced economies.

Raising the retirement age does raise questions though. My retirement age has been pushed up to 67 already and will probably go up further before I retire. My work requires precise hand eye coordination. How am I going to do my job when I'm that old? I will have to find another role along with all my other colleagues once we reach that age, how will that be provided for?

gadjo_dilo

5th June 2012, 13:38

When I'll be old ( in case I'll ever admit I'm old :laugh :) I want to rest and relax. Enough with hard learning and hard working!

Rollo

5th June 2012, 14:29

He didn't say he WANTED a retirement age of 80, he stated that for future retirees (ie us) to carry on receiving the same level of pensions our parents and grandparents received on a sustainable basis then thats the age we'd have to retire at.

Unfortunately he's right or close enough. Its pure demographics. Given that the number of retirees compared to workers is shooting up how else would you expect to ensure that the retirees don't get less in the future? Either the workers pay more or you raise the retirement age or both, and that is exactly what governments around the world are having to do.

The idea of the government paying pensions is not all that old. In Germany it extends back to about 1889, the UK dates back to 1908 and the US I think is about 1920.

Some governments have moved to the idea that the government should not be be in the business of providing services, and so we've seen in some countries a move to privatisation. The Superannuation System in Australia and the Self-invested Personal Pension program in the UK are as I see it, the first step to those governments abrogating their current responsibilities in those countries and given the tremendous turmoil over the debt ceiling in the US and future problems foreseen with Social Security, what's not to say that governments will abandon their current responsibilities there as well?

I suspect that government pensions will cease to exist in 30 years time, which is convenient because it means that I won't be getting any. So as far as I'm concerned I agree with Benmosche out of pragmatism, and I bet that AIG would like to manage those funds I'm setting aside too.

Malbec

5th June 2012, 14:36

The idea of the government paying pensions is not all that old. In Germany it extends back to about 1889, the UK dates back to 1908 and the US I think is about 1920.

Before that though except for the select few no pension system existed. The problem for most countries is that the retirement age of 60-65 was established when people were not expected to live long enough to collect their pensions. In the UK only 1 in 10 men were expected to reach retirement age. Now of course we not only expect to retire but to enjoy anything up to 30 years of healthy life after, and things will worsen as life expectancy rises further and birth rates drop.

I suspect that government pensions will cease to exist in 30 years time, which is convenient because it means that I won't be getting any. So as far as I'm concerned I agree with Benmosche out of pragmatism, and I bet that AIG would like to manage those funds I'm setting aside too.

Alternatively existing state pension schemes will become much harsher. In 2008 the NHS pension system was changed so that if it was in surplus the excess was taken by the treasury. If the NHS pension was in deficit the shortfall would be paid for by existing NHS employees. Heads I win, tails you lose.

ioan

5th June 2012, 19:00

He didn't say he WANTED a retirement age of 80, he stated that for future retirees (ie us) to carry on receiving the same level of pensions our parents and grandparents received on a sustainable basis then thats the age we'd have to retire at.

What he said is that if his business is to make huge profits then we need to take a cut or work longer and give them more money.

What do you think, why is that they are unable to give you back at least the money that you gave them during 40+ years of paying for your pension fund(s)?! It's not like you are going to live more than 30 years (in the best case) after you retire at 67 or 70!
Is it because they did sloppy work placing your money and now they do not have it?
Or is it because they pay out billions in bonuses to people who managed to produce record loses?

Unfortunately he's right or close enough.

Not even close.

Its pure demographics. Given that the number of retirees compared to workers is shooting up how else would you expect to ensure that the retirees don't get less in the future? Either the workers pay more or you raise the retirement age or both, and that is exactly what governments around the world are having to do.

And why do you think that people make less kids nowadays?
Is it not because they can not afford to raise more? Either because they are paid peanuts for their work or if they get enough money they do not have time to have and raise kids?!
Or is it because young people, who usually make kids, do not have jobs at all? What about most unemployed people being under 35?!

Old people do not generally compete with young people for jobs. Old people are usually much more skilled and experienced but are manually far less capable than school leavers and graduates and therefore are mostly employed in completely different roles.

That's hogwash. Most people around the world do jobs for which little or no qualification is needed, and in these cases all people of all ages are in direct competition for those jobs.

The comparison with the Middle East is nonsense, their young people don't have jobs because a) their governments promoted a stupidly high birth rate and b) the same governments have obstructed economic development that would otherwise have employed those youngsters.

Funny how easily we can see that happening right now in Europe.

Once the global economy picks up again there will be more jobs all round in most balanced economies.

Sure sure, good night and sweet dreams.

Raising the retirement age does raise questions though. My retirement age has been pushed up to 67 already and will probably go up further before I retire. My work requires precise hand eye coordination. How am I going to do my job when I'm that old? I will have to find another role along with all my other colleagues once we reach that age, how will that be provided for?

You're a bit egoistic there aren't you?
What about other people who have to do other kinds of jobs?

Let me tell you, generally (with very few exceptions) a healthy 70 year old person can not compete with a 25 year old one, no matter the difference he/she can bring based on their long experience, and that is for several reasons:
- they do not have the same attention span anymore
- they lose out on technology, or are often afraid of it when it first get's close to them
- they just don't have the energy to keep spinning for 8+ hours a day.

ioan

5th June 2012, 19:07

Before that though except for the select few no pension system existed. The problem for most countries is that the retirement age of 60-65 was established when people were not expected to live long enough to collect their pensions. In the UK only 1 in 10 men were expected to reach retirement age. Now of course we not only expect to retire but to enjoy anything up to 30 years of healthy life after, and things will worsen as life expectancy rises further and birth rates drop.

About time that the wheel turned on those thieves then, don't you think?
Making people pay a life time for something they would never get back, isn't that theft?!
Looks to me that the system was set up as a big scam just that it slowly turned around and now the scammers are the ones complaining.

Alternatively existing state pension schemes will become much harsher. In 2008 the NHS pension system was changed so that if it was in surplus the excess was taken by the treasury. If the NHS pension was in deficit the shortfall would be paid for by existing NHS employees. Heads I win, tails you lose.

This is why a change is needed, and today's politicians should be scraped as they do not serve the interests of those who elected them.
With the money I pay for pension funds in 40 years of work I could buy 4 apartments that I could rent for a monthly rent way above what my pension will eventually be!
The question is who is profiting from all that money that we pay and never get back?
I don't think any politician will even try to answer this question, ever.

ioan

5th June 2012, 19:09

When I'll be old ( in case I'll ever admit I'm old :laugh :) I want to rest and relax. Enough with hard learning and hard working!

Then you should start buying gold bars and depositing them in a Swiss bank. Otherwise no chance for that to happen.

Malbec

5th June 2012, 20:53

What he said is that if his business is to make huge profits then we need to take a cut or work longer and give them more money.

Read and watch the article again. The CEO mentions nothing about his own business, let alone profits from pensions. He's talking about pensions in general.

What do you think, why is that they are unable to give you back at least the money that you gave them during 40+ years of paying for your pension fund(s)?! It's not like you are going to live more than 30 years (in the best case) after you retire at 67 or 70!
Is it because they did sloppy work placing your money and now they do not have it?
Or is it because they pay out billions in bonuses to people who managed to produce record loses?

Both the AIG guy and I are talking pensions in general. The majority of pension schemes are state run especially in Europe. This is not about mismanagement of pension funds (which you would be able to track through your annual statements anyway, we're talking demographics.

Not even close.

Actually it is, you did read the article didn't you? He may be scaremongering but retirement ages will have to rise further and/or we will have to pay in more. Again its demographics.

And why do you think that people make less kids nowadays?
Is it not because they can not afford to raise more? Either because they are paid peanuts for their work or if they get enough money they do not have time to have and raise kids?!
Or is it because young people, who usually make kids, do not have jobs at all? What about most unemployed people being under 35?!

Utterly simplistic view. You think women gaining equality in society and at work has had nothing to do with the dropping birthrate? There are so many factors involved including culture and religion, the economy is not the sole factor by any means.

That's hogwash. Most people around the world do jobs for which little or no qualification is needed, and in these cases all people of all ages are in direct competition for those jobs.

Few people in the developed world do unskilled jobs. Most do jobs where experience and qualifications are needed. You're mistaking Europe with China.

Funny how easily we can see that happening right now in Europe.

Several lines up you were bleating about why birthrates were dropping through the floor in Europe, now the governments have pushed birthrates to stupidly high rates? Consistency please!

You're a bit egoistic there aren't you?
What about other people who have to do other kinds of jobs?

Let me tell you, generally (with very few exceptions) a healthy 70 year old person can not compete with a 25 year old one, no matter the difference he/she can bring based on their long experience, and that is for several reasons:
- they do not have the same attention span anymore
- they lose out on technology, or are often afraid of it when it first get's close to them
- they just don't have the energy to keep spinning for 8+ hours a day.

And how does that differ from what I said? You've just repeated my statement in a different way. Disagreeing for the point of disagreeing again?

You fundamentally misunderstand the pension timebomb. It isn't about bankers stealing money, its purely demographics. Oddly enough though, you think insulting and attacking covers for your ignorance, do you realise it merely makes your lack of understanding more obvious?

Malbec

5th June 2012, 20:57

This is why a change is needed, and today's politicians should be scraped as they do not serve the interests of those who elected them.
With the money I pay for pension funds in 40 years of work I could buy 4 apartments that I could rent for a monthly rent way above what my pension will eventually be!

Then don't pay into it, its simple. Use the money for something else like those apartments. Whats stopping you?

You'd be a fool not to take a serious look at how you're going to finance your retirement carefully and diversify your risks.

ioan

5th June 2012, 21:19

Then don't pay into it, its simple. Use the money for something else like those apartments. Whats stopping you?

:laugh:
The fact that they collect the money at the source, before I even get it?!
Sure thing I aint paying a private pension fund on top of it, maybe after I manage to get my own house and an apartment to fund my old days.

ioan

5th June 2012, 21:39

Read and watch the article again. The CEO mentions nothing about his own business, let alone profits from pensions. He's talking about pensions in general.

Because he aint the CEO of AIG? And he's got no interest in people paying into a pension fund 20% longer?

Both the AIG guy and I are talking pensions in general. The majority of pension schemes are state run especially in Europe. This is not about mismanagement of pension funds (which you would be able to track through your annual statements anyway, we're talking demographics.

Oh yes, the easy excuse it's demographics. Basically is no ones fault right?

Actually it is, you did read the article didn't you? He may be scaremongering but retirement ages will have to rise further and/or we will have to pay in more. Again its demographics.

Sure, it has nothing to do with the fact that governments blatantly mismanage pension funds using the money to cover other holes. Also it has nothing to do with many banks and insurance company which BTW happen to also have pension funds as side business lost or almost lost everything 4 years ago.
Again it is demographics which is basically no one's fault. How easy.

Utterly simplistic view. You think women gaining equality in society and at work has had nothing to do with the dropping birthrate? There are so many factors involved including culture and religion, the economy is not the sole factor by any means.

Women have been working for decades and yet they had more kids than they have now.
My parents have 4 children, by the time they were my age, yet they both had well paying jobs and worked 40 years each. I've got no kids and not planning to have any for the next 6 years.
See I am talking from experience, I wonder how you came to your conclusions that economy isn't the sole factor. Maybe it's something in the water?! :rolleyes:

Few people in the developed world do unskilled jobs. Most do jobs where experience and qualifications are needed. You're mistaking Europe with China.

I think that you're mistaking unskilled jobs with skilled ones.
Every time I call for a skill hand worker of any kind I have to put up with crap work and high prices. I could do 99% of these so called 'skilled' jobs without a minute of training if I just had the time for it.
Breaking news: using a hammer and a screwdriver is not skilled job in my world, and no I am not in China.

Several lines up you were bleating about why birthrates were dropping through the floor in Europe, now the governments have pushed birthrates to stupidly high rates? Consistency please!

You understood bugger all, I was talking about the unemployment levels and obstructed economic growth. or do you see overall economic growth in Europe right now?

And how does that differ from what I said? You've just repeated my statement in a different way. Disagreeing for the point of disagreeing again?

Who said I disagreed? I just said you were a bit egoistic by explaining only your case.

You fundamentally misunderstand the pension timebomb. It isn't about bankers stealing money, its purely demographics. Oddly enough though, you think insulting and attacking covers for your ignorance, do you realise it merely makes your lack of understanding more obvious?

Oh the demographic excuse again, when in reality we are talking about gross mismanagement. Of public and private pension funds.
It looks more like you are insulting me while I never insulted you, unless you are one of those I cited in which case I stand by my opinion.

Rollo

5th June 2012, 22:30

Both the AIG guy and I are talking pensions in general. The majority of pension schemes are state run especially in Europe. This is not about mismanagement of pension funds (which you would be able to track through your annual statements anyway, we're talking demographics.

You fundamentally misunderstand the pension timebomb. It isn't about bankers stealing money, its purely demographics.

I'll take these two statements together:

AIG is a business; that means that firstly they have their interests at heart and not the general public. Assuming money is actually set aside to pay pensions, then it has to be invested somewhere and you can bet that AIG would be queuing up to get these funds under their management like any other financial company.
Those funds have to be invested somewhere and invariably they do/would end up in property/shares/bonds etc. which are all subject to varying amounts of risk. As we've seen in Australia over the past 5 years, many retirees have had great chunks of their investments wiped out and so have been forced to rely on the state-paid pension. Companies like AIG honestly couldn't give a rip if people suffer a loss.
In the mean time, superannuation firms still take their 1-2% management fees in spite of the funds under their management not generally even keeping place with inflation. In Australia at least the law allows you to set-up a self-managed-super-fund but the retail funds generally haven't done stellarly better than SMSFs on the whole. Most people I deal with usually have enough that they could set up their own SMSF but then again most people don't want the hassle. There is a break even point when it doesn't even make sense to set up your own SMSF because the audit fees would be more than 1-2% management fees which financial companies would have taken.

The point is that it actually is partially about bankers stealing money (they'd like to) and not just purely demographics.

race aficionado

5th June 2012, 22:38

Retirement?
That's a lofty and wishful thinking goal in most cases.

Social Security does not give that much in this country and the 401-K's have been hard hit in these last crazy market years.

Most people don't have savings or a realistic retirement plan and the economy is in deep doodoo right now.

Companies don't protect their long serving employees as it used to be in the "olden days" and medical coverage is so expensive to the majority of the citizens that many end up broke after selling their homes and end up using up all their savings to deal with medical costs that the insurance doesn't cover or because they can't afford the medical insurance itself.

How is the situation on your neck of the woods?

:s mokin:

Malbec

5th June 2012, 23:23

Women have been working for decades and yet they had more kids than they have now.
My parents have 4 children, by the time they were my age, yet they both had well paying jobs and worked 40 years each. I've got no kids and not planning to have any for the next 6 years.
See I am talking from experience, I wonder how you came to your conclusions that economy isn't the sole factor. Maybe it's something in the water?! :rolleyes:

Yes you're making the schoolboy error of extrapolating personal anecdotal evidence over an entire continent.

You claim that economics is the sole factor, that wealthier societies have fewer children than poorer ones because of the expense of having children.

Perhaps you can explain to me why and how Protestant North Europe with its higher economic activity and growth rate has a persistently growing birth rate in excess of replacement while Catholic (no contraception just to ram it home) South Europe which is economically lagging behind has seen a near collapse in birth rate over the last decade?

Oh the demographic excuse again, when in reality we are talking about gross mismanagement. Of public and private pension funds.
It looks more like you are insulting me while I never insulted you, unless you are one of those I cited in which case I stand by my opinion.

Brilliant stuff ioan, classic.

You refer repeatedly to the mismanagement of public pension funds. There is no such thing.

A fund is where money YOU pay in is ringfenced, at the end of the term the money YOU paid in +/- profits is paid back to YOU.

No government in the world even pretends that they run their pension systems that way.

Instead current workers paying into their pensions largely pay for current retirees (we'll ignore profits subsidising other parts of state spending etc).

Now you claim that demographics is irrelevant.

Here's a simple equation for you. Current workers pay in = Current retirees get paid.

Now increase the number of retirees in relation to the number of current workers (that demographic myth again) and tell me how you are going to balance the books without trying to increase the amount paid in by the workers or reducing the number of retirees.

Dearie me.

Malbec

5th June 2012, 23:26

The point is that it actually is partially about bankers stealing money (they'd like to) and not just purely demographics.

I certainly agree that private pensions do suffer from bankers creaming off excessive fees, I also agree with you that demographics is the biggest factor.

race aficionado

6th June 2012, 00:42

This is why a change is needed, and today's politicians should be scraped as they do not serve the interests of those who elected them.
With the money I pay for pension funds in 40 years of work I could buy 4 apartments that I could rent for a monthly rent way above what my pension will eventually be!
The question is who is profiting from all that money that we pay and never get back?
I don't think any politician will even try to answer this question, ever.

Ioan, that seriously sucks!

Things on this end are dire, no matter what glass colored glasses you use to see it.

I don't give up on humanity, but that's a separate thread.

gadjo_dilo

6th June 2012, 09:24

Then you should start buying gold bars and depositing them in a Swiss bank. Otherwise no chance for that to happen.

Nah.....My family invested in gold and then due to some horrible historical events we all suffered ( my father and uncle were emprisoned and tortured, our home was confiscated and we had to pay rent fot the house we owned, etc. ). It took me about 15 years to fight for justice and get some ( very poor ) compensation.
So no gold for me.

My parents have 4 children, by the time they were my age, yet they both had well paying jobs and worked 40 years each. I've got no kids and not planning to have any for the next 6 years.
See I am talking from experience, I wonder how you came to your conclusions that economy isn't the sole factor. Maybe it's something in the water?! ..

.........

And why do you think that people make less kids nowadays?
Is it not because they can not afford to raise more?..

Now you know I have a morbid curiosity.....
I suppose your parents were of your age before 1989 so I wonder what jobs they could have to be well paid.

Since I also have a bit of experience of the times when your parents were young, well paid and happy to raise 4 children I’ll be ( maybe ) a bit cynical and add the most important factor that influenced natality of that period. In our country, of course. Abortions were illegal and the contraceptives were non-existent. Don’t know your family and their particular reasons but most of the families with many children ( esp. in the urban medium ) had them not because they were finacially satisfied but because they had no choice.

Mark in Oshawa

7th June 2012, 19:44

Governments in most western nations have some form of pension plan. They take that money to pay the current pensioners and hope like hell they never run out of workers. The problem is, with most places like Canada or the US, the babyboomers will mean there are more seniors than the government can afford with the shrinking birth rate. The whole ponzi scheme will fall apart. Just another example of government making a complete mess of something they say we are too dumb to look after on our own...

BDunnell

7th June 2012, 22:07

race aficionado

7th June 2012, 22:11

I say we all win the lottery.
Problem solved.
:dozey:

ioan

7th June 2012, 22:35

Hardly their own fault, though, is it? After all, it is a situation perpetuated by governments of all colours, on the grounds that to do away with it would be massively, fatally unpopular.

I would be more than happy to stop paying them 1000 Euro/month for something I will never get back, this looks 100% sure right now.
The problem is that the government is a very bad manager, and they will never get better, who have been forever covering their incompetence with our pension money and on top of with with staggering deficits. I wonder where does all this lost money go?!

ioan

7th June 2012, 22:35

I say we all win the lottery.
Problem solved.
:dozey:

So we all get about 1 buck/each right? ;)

race aficionado

7th June 2012, 22:36

So we all get about 1 buck/each right? ;)

If we're lucky :)

ioan

7th June 2012, 22:40

If we're lucky :)

I don't feel like it right now. :D

gadjo_dilo

8th June 2012, 10:08

I would be more than happy to stop paying them 1000 Euro/month for something I will never get back, this looks 100% sure right now.!

I'm shocked!!!!!! What's the percentage of the contribution?

If your salary is more than 10000 Euro/month I really hate you.

anthonyvop

8th June 2012, 18:20

donKey jote

8th June 2012, 18:46

If your salary is more than 10000 Euro/month I really hate you.

If mine isn't will you really love me? :andrea: :s ailor: :kiss: :arrows: :p

schmenke

8th June 2012, 18:57

I'm shocked!!!!!! What's the percentage of the contribution?

If your salary is more than 10000 Euro/month I really hate you.

Indeed.
1,000 euros per month is quite a bit.
In canada typical employee contributions to our government pension fund is about 5% of gross pay, which would make Ioan very well-paid around here :)

ioan

8th June 2012, 19:03

I'm shocked!!!!!! What's the percentage of the contribution?

If your salary is more than 10000 Euro/month I really hate you.

About 5200 Euro before taxes, and I pay over 2000 taxes/month out of which most is social security, so no need to hate me. :)

PS: If I earned over 10000€ a month I would not be bothered by anyone talking about retiring at age 80.

ioan

8th June 2012, 19:04

In the USA I pay into Social Security because I have to not because I am under any illusion it will take care of me financially if and when I retire.

It's pretty much the same here.

donKey jote

8th June 2012, 20:09

About 5200 Euro before taxes, and I pay over 2000 taxes/month out of which most is social security, so no need to hate me.

That's a lot of tax for only 5200 :laugh: :devil: ... Is that Austria? Maybe you should marry yer missus! :p
Here in supposedly high tax Germany I pay around 35%, but I haven't a clue how much of that is Social Security / Pension / Health insurance, Income Tax or "Solidarity Tax" (for former DDR).
Since it's taken at source, I see my effective salary (net income) and don't really care too much about the rest as it's not something I can really influence. I simply don't have that feeling of "paying my hard earned dollars into a useless fund" as my hard earned dollars are my net income. :)

I'm also under 10T€/month but if I'm still enjoying my job so much at 80 I'll be happy not to have to retire beforehand :bandit:

schmenke

8th June 2012, 21:56

...Here in supposedly high tax Germany I pay around 35%, but I haven't a clue how much of that is Social Security / Pension / Health insurance, Income Tax or "Solidarity Tax" ...

So the ~35% is total deductions then.
That's comparable over here. I always assumed the figure was higher for most European countries.

My gross monthly is, well, more than a donkey in equivalent euros, but I prefer to be paid in $CAD these days. ...And I'm well on my way to chasing a little white ball daily well before I turn 80 :D (assuming the economy doesn't completely go down the sh!tter before then :s ).
This scheme, of course, relies on more than just government pension investments :mark: .

Garry Walker

8th June 2012, 21:58

It's pretty much the same here.

It is pretty much the same everywhere.
Thankfully I know completely legal ways to avoid paying insane amounts on social security and I intend to keep doing that.

gadjo_dilo

11th June 2012, 10:01

If mine isn't will you really love me? :andrea: :s ailor: :kiss: :arrows:

I love you unconditionally.
:kiss:

gadjo_dilo

11th June 2012, 10:21

About 5200 Euro before taxes, and I pay over 2000 taxes/month out of which most is social security, so no need to hate me. :)

PS: If I earned over 10000€ a month I would not be bothered by anyone talking about retiring at age 80.

I hate you unconditionally. :laugh:

I know very well my contributions:
Social security ( don't know if it's the real name ) 10,5% ( I pay it as an employee, the employer pays the rest of 20,8%)
Unemployment fund 0,5%
Health fund 5,5%
Tax on income 16%

I earn the same amount as you but not in euro. Hate you!

ioan

12th June 2012, 21:13

I hate you unconditionally. :laugh:

I know very well my contributions:
Social security ( don't know if it's the real name ) 10,5% ( I pay it as an employee, the employer pays the rest of 20,8%)
Unemployment fund 0,5%
Health fund 5,5%
Tax on income 16%

I earn the same amount as you but not in euro. Hate you!

Why hate me? Think about I pay all those 10.5% + 20% myself not my employer! Rather difficult situation.
You only pay 10.5%! ;) :D

And for Romania you should certainly not complain with that kind of pay.

ioan

12th June 2012, 21:17

That's a lot of tax for only 5200 :laugh: :devil: ... Is that Austria?

Yep that's Austria. Around here you have 50% deductions for rather low earnings compared to other places.

driveace

12th June 2012, 22:25

Working for myself for over 50 years ,i refused to have a private pension,rather to invest in property.The large houses now sold,and investments off shore.But 3 or 4 % is no good to savers or the retired..My friend s wife said to me when my friend was 30,that her husband would be able to retire at 50 due to all the pensions they had taken out.At 72 he is still working ,the same as myself.

ioan

12th June 2012, 23:02

Invest in property, get yourself a house and a few apartments that will bring you later much more money than any pension fund.

ioan

12th June 2012, 23:06

That's a lot of tax for only 5200 :laugh: :devil: ... Is that Austria? Maybe you should marry yer missus! :p

BTW the missus doesn't have a job right now and it doesn't look like she'll find one soon either, and that's another issue that complicates things a bit.

schmenke

12th June 2012, 23:10

gadjo_dilo

13th June 2012, 09:16

Why hate me? Think about I pay all those 10.5% + 20% myself not my employer! Rather difficult situation.
You only pay 10.5%! ;) :D

And for Romania you should certainly not complain with that kind of pay.

Ioane, are you sure you're not making a confusion? 10,5% is only my personal contribution to the social assurance. If you add all the other contributions you'll see that I "lose" also more than 30% and the taxes are also about 1700/month. On the other hand let's not forget that romanian pensions are pretty miserable.

I complain because after all those deductions I get only about 800 Euros. It's a low price for my destroyed neuros. (What a rhyme....)
Otherwise I can manage as I'm not very demanding. I can also support my mother and my older brother who's jobless. Two years ago when our salaries were cut I got a net salary of only 1350 lei . We started a riot for our legal rights and won ( it was on the news for about a week. Haven't you seen me on TV? :laugh: ).

I
Invest in property, get yourself a house and a few apartments that will bring you later much more money than any pension fund. .
Nah....In Bucharest rents are quite low now and the tenants too uneducated. In the past I used to rent my aunt's apartment and then I had to invest a lot of money ( not to mention nerves ) to repair the damages.

Malbec

13th June 2012, 09:32

I only started a pension two years ago when I was 27. I left it abit late to be honest and I still can only afford to put in half of what I should. When I did earn good money it didn't come as a priority but wish I had thought sooner.

I'd go with Schmenke, talk to a financial adviser, preferably one you can trust that someone you know already works with. They can let you know about options you didn't even know existed. I've been lucky, my one has been happy to advise me to do stuff that would result in him getting nothing or a smaller fee when I thought I wanted a more expensive option. Diversify where your money goes too.

Stakeholder pensions are a good deal but you've probably already started one. Property too when you can afford it.

Malbec

13th June 2012, 09:52

I do stand to inherit 5 properties in the distant future from my folks so I hope that one day makes up for my slap dash approach to my pension. :)

Problem solved ;)

ArrowsFA1

13th June 2012, 11:02

After raping the American people's wallets for $170 billion in what amounts to state welfare in in taxpayer bailouts, AIG had the gall to then pay $1.2 billion out in "bonuses"
The inspiration for Show of Hands "Arrogance, Ignorance & Greed" (AIG)

L3zhrWdUA_s

schmenke

13th June 2012, 16:12

... I do stand to inherit 5 properties in the distant future from my folks so I hope that one day makes up for my slap dash approach to my pension. :)

Property markets can be volatile and are very region-specific. Henners, you’re probably o.k. as property values in the UK will likely remain stable and it’s unlikely that you’ll assume a financial loss.
Be careful with inheritance, especially with properties, as these are considered a capital gain and any income generated can be taxed quite heavily. Not sure how it works in the UK, but over here net income gained from capital gains can be taxed up to 50%!

janvanvurpa

13th June 2012, 18:27

donKey jote

13th June 2012, 20:02

I love you unconditionally.
:kiss:

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/funny/2/banana.gifhttp://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/funny/2/dance.gifhttp://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/funny/2/banana.gif

:bandit:

gadjo_dilo

14th June 2012, 08:18

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/funny/2/banana.gifhttp://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/funny/2/dance.gifhttp://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/funny/2/banana.gif

:bandit:
I don't get it. My computer shows 3 X-ed images. Just hope it's not something shameful.
I can expect anything from a donkey.....

race aficionado

14th June 2012, 16:35

I don't get it. My computer shows 3 X-ed images. Just hope it's not something shameful.
I can expect anything from a donkey.....

Yep, that's his dancing banana.

donKey jote

14th June 2012, 19:35

http://i46.tinypic.com/hv9ul3.gif

:andrea:

ioan

14th June 2012, 19:45

Ioane, are you sure you're not making a confusion? 10,5% is only my personal contribution to the social assurance. If you add all the other contributions you'll see that I "lose" also more than 30% and the taxes are also about 1700/month. On the other hand let's not forget that romanian pensions are pretty miserable.

I complain because after all those deductions I get only about 800 Euros. It's a low price for my destroyed neuros. (What a rhyme....)
Otherwise I can manage as I'm not very demanding. I can also support my mother and my older brother who's jobless. Two years ago when our salaries were cut I got a net salary of only 1350 lei . We started a riot for our legal rights and won ( it was on the news for about a week. Haven't you seen me on TV? :laugh: ).

Nah....In Bucharest rents are quite low now and the tenants too uneducated. In the past I used to rent my aunt's apartment and then I had to invest a lot of money ( not to mention nerves ) to repair the damages.

Well, 800 Euros and low rent (which makes it useless to be in the renting business, is not bad, when I think about the 750 Euro rent I pay every month! ;)

ioan

14th June 2012, 19:46

http://i46.tinypic.com/hv9ul3.gif

:andrea:

:rotflmao:

gadjo_dilo

15th June 2012, 08:27

Well, 800 Euros and low rent (which makes it useless to be in the renting business, is not bad, when I think about the 750 Euro rent I pay every month! ;)

Do you reckon? Then think about leaving Austria and come back here.

ioan

15th June 2012, 18:16

Do you reckon? Then think about leaving Austria and come back here.

Believe me I didn't left because of the money, it was because of the people and crap society. And won't move back either, no matter how much money will be promised, again because of the people and the sick society.

edv

15th June 2012, 22:31

I retired as I turned 50.
I expect nothing from my gov't in the way of pension, despite my lifelong contributions.
I sacrificed a lot of 'Toys' in my youth in order to pay off debts quickly, incl mortgage and cards.
Now I have an extra decade available for retirement!

race aficionado

16th June 2012, 00:20

Good for you. :)

Sent from my iPhone

muggle not

16th June 2012, 01:09

I retired at age 55. Stay retired for about 16 years and went back to work at age 71.

I enjoyed my retirement years tremendously and also am enjoying my work-again years. Have been working now for 4 years and it is the most job fun I have had. I work at home 40 hours a week for a large Corporate firm and attend meetings about once a month at the firms office in North Carolina. Maybe I will retire again in the next 3 to 6 months.

ioan

16th June 2012, 09:30

race aficionado

16th June 2012, 22:35

Well done, I plan to do the same.

Okay, now you are showing off.

I will retire when I die.

:s mokin:

ioan

17th June 2012, 01:58

Okay, now you are showing off.

I will retire when I die.

:s mokin:

Believe me I do not plan to work as long as some are planning for me.
Given that I might not live past 80 IMO 50 is a good target. That would give me some 30 years to enjoy life, something I really can't do now.

race aficionado

17th June 2012, 03:24

More power to you. Sounds like a great plan.

RIP @80?

I'll know more about that when I get close to that number.

Sent from my iPhone

janvanvurpa

17th June 2012, 19:47

to enjoy life, something I really can't do now.

I will help you.
Inhale. exhale.

Think while doing that and feeling the air flow in..

It is way more enjoyable that say wallowing in cold mud with 2 broken ribs jammed into you lung and spitting blood up and going blind with pain every time you inhale. (ribs poking your lungs does that)

look at a photograph of somebody you love or or has loved you...and recall them in your brain....

That is way more enjoyable than being blind---even temporarily--from accidental exposure to welding arc.

Listen to the sounds of 5-7 year old kids giggling......that is way more enjoyable than anything I can think of..

Of course you can enjoy life. Enjoyable things are in your mind ready to be recalled, they're all around you...

Open your mind, and open your eyes.

(Of course there's all kinds of bad sheeeet too, look at the angry hate filled, fearful people so fearful they seem insane, those which are maybe 49% of my country, you don't have to look at sheeeet, you know it exists, but where do you choose to cast your eyes?)

La vie est belle.

Jag_Warrior

17th June 2012, 22:11

I do already have a stake holder pension and have a mortgage on my present house. I'm not in a financial position to start another mortgage as my savings are low. Mortgages are hard to come by in the UK at present and a mortgage broker friend of mine suggested a lot of providers will not touch you at the moment unless you have a 20 grand deposit or a contribution of 15%. I have heard 95% mortgages are creeping back in slowly but already owning a property may not work in my favour. I do stand to inherit 5 properties in the distant future from my folks so I hope that one day makes up for my slap dash approach to my pension. :)

In my 30's, I often thought that retiring in my mid-late 40's was the ultimate plan. I figured that I would have the income and savings to accomplish that. But what I didn't consider then was the other side of the ledger: expenses. And after becoming very ill a couple of years ago, I'm now in a position that obtaining a private insurance policy would be hard to nearly impossible. I mean, I could get insurance, but it would be one of those junk 60/40 coverage policies that doesn't pay half the time. The expenses from getting critically ill in the U.S. can break nearly anyone. I say that assuming that "Obamacare" will either be repealed by the Supreme Court or that Romney will win and he will work with the GOP to gut the law. So I figure that I could retire whenever I want, but with one bad trip to the hospital, I could be bankrupt within a week. Once I get to be 65 I'd be eligible for Medicare. But before that, I'd be rolling the dice if I didn't stick with an employer that offered an open-enrollment health care policy.

But you mentioned property as a retirement plan. And I commend you for looking in that direction. At least here in the U.S., if done properly, there is no other asset class that can build wealth over time as effectively as real estate, IMO. It's not easy and there are risks. But the rewards beat everything else that I've ever been involved in.

To take money out of a 401K here (without penalty) one must be at least 59 1/2. Social Security (and Medicare) kicks in at 65 and above for most people. What few companies that still offer pensions in the U.S. usually offer them at 30 years of service or age 62. I have no idea how government pensions work here. As for retiring at 80, I seriously doubt that I'll live to be 80 anyway. But if I do live to a more advanced age, I would want to do is find something that I enjoy doing and do that for as long as I can. The prospect of retiring and just sitting around the house would be like a living hell. My father living into his 90's. And up to the end, he remained productive and had goals and ambitions.

ioan

17th June 2012, 22:45

I will help you.
Inhale. exhale.

Think while doing that and feeling the air flow in..

It is way more enjoyable that say wallowing in cold mud with 2 broken ribs jammed into you lung and spitting blood up and going blind with pain every time you inhale. (ribs poking your lungs does that)

look at a photograph of somebody you love or or has loved you...and recall them in your brain....

That is way more enjoyable than being blind---even temporarily--from accidental exposure to welding arc.

Listen to the sounds of 5-7 year old kids giggling......that is way more enjoyable than anything I can think of..

Of course you can enjoy life. Enjoyable things are in your mind ready to be recalled, they're all around you...

Open your mind, and open your eyes.

(Of course there's all kinds of bad sheeeet too, look at the angry hate filled, fearful people so fearful they seem insane, those which are maybe 49% of my country, you don't have to look at sheeeet, you know it exists, but where do you choose to cast your eyes?)

La vie est belle.

Sure, let's also imagine that along with working about 70-80 hours a week.

janvanvurpa

18th June 2012, 00:39

Sure, let's also imagine that along with working about 70-80 hours a week.

OK, let's.

I get up at 0720 every day and get my little girls up and clothed and fed and off to school then work here till pick up time from school, then around 18.30 when wifey dearest has come home and i have a bite, then down to the machine shop to carve up metal into motorsport parts..The metal doesn't just fall off of those parts....
An early night is 2130, typical is kl23.30, sometimes after midnight.

Today, a beautiful sunny day with a nice cool breeze is a Sunday, so after a cuppa tea for me and some breakfast for the squirmy girls, I was first deburring 40 parts for a kit I designed and make to mount MkIII Supra rear LSD diff assembly into US Spec Sierras which didn't come with an LSD. Then I was cleaning and knocking slag off of chassi rail engine mounts, the parts we weld into the inner fender and chassi rail to mount the motor on in rally use, rather than on the crossmember, again for US spec Sierras, and just popped in for a cuppa tea.

Deburring is boring and noisy, but little Annoushka and Ninotchka giggling and running (that alone is a beautiful sight, watching pure joy of their running) fills me with energy, and peace simultaneously as I am grinding to stupid car parts.

And in the time taken to type these words I was called away to serve up some rice and "yummie hot dawg, please" for Natasha who giggled when I cut the hotdog in a funny shape..

I I can do this dialectic, you can too.
When I'm tired, and man it is exhausting these long days, I think of my wife and the girls all cuddled up snoozing in peace at home, and I look forward to whenever I get home to just looking, and listening to them sleeping in a big pile.
It always brings a smile and a sigh. It's the simplest thing in the world, and it is profoundly beautiful regardless if I am tired as hell. My fatigue, and age ( I am 59), and all the aches and pains and pinches (5 seroius operations in the last 4 years--2 on the spine, a replacement knee for the one ripped to hell repeatedly 35 years ago---a rebuilt nose internally from repeated breaks to nose and cheekbone---and I just died from appendictis maybe 6-7 weeks ago) really have nothing to do with the beauty of the girls snuggling up and snoring so quietly against Mama, the beauty just is....and it is no effort on my part to look at the beauty.
And no effort to sigh, and to smile

(and now I just was called away to serve some rice for Annoushka)

Do you drink tea?
Perhaps just drinking a cup of tea at the right temp, not too cool, not stupid hot, but just right: there is a world of beauty and pleasure in a cup of tea done right. Its a start...

gadjo_dilo

18th June 2012, 08:32

Okay, now you are showing off.

I will retire when I die.

:s mokin:

Me too. For a year now I keep telling that I'll throw myself through the window. My colleagues smile and think I'm kidding. I don't.

gadjo_dilo

18th June 2012, 10:13

(Of course there's all kinds of bad sheeeet too, look at the angry hate filled, fearful people so fearful they seem insane, those which are maybe 49% of my country, you don't have to look at sheeeet, you know it exists, but where do you choose to cast your eyes?)

La vie est belle.

Maybe you also have a good advice for the people who has the bad luck to live in a place where that percentage is about 90%....

I try to turn my head to avoid sheeeet but what shall I do if it's everywhere?

donKey jote

18th June 2012, 18:06

Sure, let's also imagine that along with working about 70-80 hours a week.

clearly you can't be a very efficient worker :devil: :p

ioan

20th June 2012, 19:05

OK, let's.

I get up at 0720 every day and get my little girls up and clothed and fed and off to school then work here till pick up time from school, then around 18.30 when wifey dearest has come home and i have a bite, then down to the machine shop to carve up metal into motorsport parts..The metal doesn't just fall off of those parts....
An early night is 2130, typical is kl23.30, sometimes after midnight.

Today, a beautiful sunny day with a nice cool breeze is a Sunday, so after a cuppa tea for me and some breakfast for the squirmy girls, I was first deburring 40 parts for a kit I designed and make to mount MkIII Supra rear LSD diff assembly into US Spec Sierras which didn't come with an LSD. Then I was cleaning and knocking slag off of chassi rail engine mounts, the parts we weld into the inner fender and chassi rail to mount the motor on in rally use, rather than on the crossmember, again for US spec Sierras, and just popped in for a cuppa tea.

Deburring is boring and noisy, but little Annoushka and Ninotchka giggling and running (that alone is a beautiful sight, watching pure joy of their running) fills me with energy, and peace simultaneously as I am grinding to stupid car parts.

And in the time taken to type these words I was called away to serve up some rice and "yummie hot dawg, please" for Natasha who giggled when I cut the hotdog in a funny shape..

I I can do this dialectic, you can too.
When I'm tired, and man it is exhausting these long days, I think of my wife and the girls all cuddled up snoozing in peace at home, and I look forward to whenever I get home to just looking, and listening to them sleeping in a big pile.
It always brings a smile and a sigh. It's the simplest thing in the world, and it is profoundly beautiful regardless if I am tired as hell. My fatigue, and age ( I am 59), and all the aches and pains and pinches (5 seroius operations in the last 4 years--2 on the spine, a replacement knee for the one ripped to hell repeatedly 35 years ago---a rebuilt nose internally from repeated breaks to nose and cheekbone---and I just died from appendictis maybe 6-7 weeks ago) really have nothing to do with the beauty of the girls snuggling up and snoring so quietly against Mama, the beauty just is....and it is no effort on my part to look at the beauty.
And no effort to sigh, and to smile

(and now I just was called away to serve some rice for Annoushka)

Do you drink tea?
Perhaps just drinking a cup of tea at the right temp, not too cool, not stupid hot, but just right: there is a world of beauty and pleasure in a cup of tea done right. Its a start...

Put simply I go to sleep at 01:00 Am and get up around 6:30 (7 at latest if very tired). In between it's called work and I can not imagine having time for kids sadly. Add to this being away on business trips for 50% of the time.
I can squeeze in 4 hours of biking during week ends and that's about it for having fun.

Anyway I am glad you can enjoy life, it's just that we have obviously different lives. ;)

ioan

20th June 2012, 19:07

clearly you can't be a very efficient worker :devil: :p

Bad donkey!

janvanvurpa

20th June 2012, 19:13

Put simply I go to sleep at 01:00 Am and get up around 6:30 (7 at latest if very tired). In between it's called work and I can not imagine having time for kids sadly. Add to this being away on business trips for 50% of the time.
I can squeeze in 4 hours of biking during week ends and that's about it for having fun.

Anyway I am glad you can enjoy life, it's just that we have obviously different lives. ;)

As I said, I cannot remember too many detail when there is only some cryptic 'screen name' and no location so you may have said where you are and what your work is but alas, I have no idea.
So, where are you?
What do you do that demands working till 1AM and travel 50% of the time?
Are you male, female? How old?
Please don't be vague, we really cannot dispense more than the most general advice at the conversational level things have been at.

janvanvurpa

20th June 2012, 19:15

Maybe you also have a good advice for the people who has the bad luck to live in a place where that percentage is about 90%....

I try to turn my head to avoid sheeeet but what shall I do if it's everywhere?

Do what you can.
Right thoughts, right words, right actions.

race aficionado

20th June 2012, 19:24

Do what you can.
Right thoughts, right words, right actions.

And let's avoid jumping out of windows.
It's too messy.
:)

donKey jote

20th June 2012, 19:39

Put simply I go to sleep at 01:00 Am and get up around 6:30 (7 at latest if very tired). In between it's called work
Are you self-employed, or have the Austrians not heard of the europäische Arbeitszeitgesetz yet ? :p

Malbec

20th June 2012, 22:56

Put simply I go to sleep at 01:00 Am and get up around 6:30 (7 at latest if very tired). In between it's called work and I can not imagine having time for kids sadly. Add to this being away on business trips for 50% of the time.
I can squeeze in 4 hours of biking during week ends and that's about it for having fun.

Anyway I am glad you can enjoy life, it's just that we have obviously different lives. ;)

In which case ioan maybe you should look at making your current life more enjoyable and getting a better work/life balance NOW while you're fit enough to enjoy it rather than just looking forward to some future retirement in the dim and distant future.

A few years ago I realised that my work life balance was poor and would only worsen (I don't fancy working 24 hour shifts at the age of 60) so I switched specialities to a less taxing one. I don't regret it one bit, especially now with one child (and hopefully more in the future) where I have enough time to enjoy watching him grow up and can be an important part of his life.

Oh yeah move to another country, you're paying way too much tax!

janvanvurpa

21st June 2012, 00:59

Are you self-employed, or have the Austrians not heard of the europäische Arbeitszeitgesetz yet ? :p

Yeah that's my excuse. Self-employed, 2 kids under 8, and living in Fortress America™ where there's a War on.
So I can say truthfully "It's not so bad, on Christmas I only work 1/2 day: 12 hours"

But we're a country of Evangelical Puritans and know that idle hands are the Devil's playthings so we have to work insane hours just to be poor....

Wait, that sounds like a cue for

FOR!!!!!

"The Four Yorkshireman"

FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:Aye, very passable, that, very passable bit of risotto.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:Nothing like a good glass of Château de Chasselas, eh, Josiah?
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:You're right there, Obadiah.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:Who'd have thought thirty year ago we'd all be sittin' here drinking Château de Chasselas, eh?FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:In them days we was glad to have the price of a cup o' tea.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:A cup o' cold tea.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:Without milk or sugar.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:Or tea.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:In a cracked cup, an' all.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:Oh, we never had a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:The best we could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:Because we were poor. My old Dad used to say to me, "Money doesn't buy you happiness, son"
.FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:Aye, 'e was right.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:Aye, 'e was
.FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:I was happier then and I had nothin'. We used to live in this tiny old house with great big holes in the roof.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:House! You were lucky to live in a house! We used to live in one room, all twenty-six of us, no furniture, 'alf the floor was missing, and we were all 'uddled together in one corner for fear of falling.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:Eh, you were lucky to have a room! We used to have to live in t' corridor!
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:Oh, we used to dream of livin' in a corridor! Would ha' been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woke up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! House? Huh.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:Well, when I say 'house' it was only a hole in the ground covered by a sheet of tarpaulin, but it was a house to us.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:We were evicted from our 'ole in the ground; we 'ad to go and live in a lake.THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:You were lucky to have a lake! There were a hundred and fifty of us living in t' shoebox in t' middle o' road.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:Cardboard box?
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:Aye.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.

aye you sound lucky I tell ya.

ioan

21st June 2012, 01:36

Guys, thanks for your compassion, however do not worry for me as I am not unhappy with my job, au contraire. I work a lot with people, from different places and cultures, and I like it.
As I am not single, and hopefully this won't change, I am trying to keep my life free of work as much as possible especially during week ends, most of the time it is doable.
Even when I am not working for my job I do something productive at home as that is what relaxes me most! So even if I want to retire early I am not planning to move to a sunny place and enjoy the sea and the sun, no way, I will have more time for my hobbies and hopefully my family! :D ;)

FormerFF

21st June 2012, 04:14

My mother is 81 and is still working three days a week. My inlaws, however, at 80 were both in assisted living.

No question that the retirement age of 65 is unreasonably low these days, by 80 is rather too high. 70 seems more realistic.

Keep in mind that some will arrive in their late 50's or early 60's needing to retire because of health problems. That needs to be dealt with as well.

FormerFF

21st June 2012, 04:25

How about retiring when you want to?

Oh Wait. he is talking about the productive funding those who failed to plan financially for their retirement.

As far as I know the majority of people here live in Democracies so to complain so much about how the Government handles your pension is pretty disingenuous. You have for years voted in people who believe they know better how to handle your finances than you do. In other words.......YOU GOT LAZY.

In the USA I pay into Social Security because I have to not because I am under any illusion it will take care of me financially if and when I retire. I have also backed any politician who calls for the privatization of S.S.

The whole basis of being able to save for retirement is that your savings will grow at a a rate that outpaces inflation. That's not been the case this whole century. That's the principal reason that state pension funds are underfunded. If inflation outpaces earnings, precious few of us can possibly save enough to retire.

gadjo_dilo

21st June 2012, 08:39

And let's avoid jumping out of windows.
It's too messy.
:)

No. I'm determined to do this. When I'll do it I'll do it in style. And I hope I'll land on the head of the right person.

gadjo_dilo

21st June 2012, 08:51

Put simply I go to sleep at 01:00 Am and get up around 6:30 (7 at latest if very tired). In between it's called work and I can not imagine having time for kids sadly. Add to this being away on business trips for 50% of the time.
I can squeeze in 4 hours of biking during week ends and that's about it for having fun.

Anyway I am glad you can enjoy life, it's just that we have obviously different lives. ;)
My father had a busier schedule than you but managed to have 2 kids. The secret was keeping his wife at home ( that also explains my "refined" education:laugh :) . Quite often he took me and my brother in his trips ( it was easy, he was a driver ). Travelling with him was a real odyssey.....

Except for his daily morning swearing " F.. m....in.....c.... de comunisti" he never complained.

gadjo_dilo

21st June 2012, 08:55

So even if I want to retire early I am not planning to move to a sunny place and enjoy the sea and the sun, no way, I will have more time for my hobbies and hopefully my family! :D ;)

Dear me....I dream about a possibility to return to my sunny Greece and live a quiet old age on a beach, without anybody to f.... my brain anymore.

gadjo_dilo

21st June 2012, 10:35

Do what you can.
Right thoughts, right words, right actions.

You're talking like a shrink....

race aficionado

21st June 2012, 15:41

No. I'm determined to do this. When I'll do it I'll do it in style. And I hope I'll land on the head of the right person.

well . . . timing is everything. . . .

schmenke

21st June 2012, 16:28

I guess that's one way to get ahead in life...

:erm:

janvanvurpa

21st June 2012, 18:41

You're talking like a shrink....

Actually I am talking like a retired beat up moto-cross guy... see in that sport if you do it for long enough, it becomes very clear that very often it really doesn't matter what you think. And that in a broader sense, thinking is irrelevant, and that no matter what you must still DO the right things, and you will only have "happiness" or "enlightenment" --or simply NOT CRASH YOU BRAINS OUT when you are having Right thoughts, right words, right action..

It is to those that know, the basic simplest version of what the Buddha said...

I didn't know any Buddhists stuff, but when I went to college after 12-13 years of pounding my brains out all over the Western world--and South Africa---but while chasing all the sweet innocent fellow students there, many of the cuties there said "OoooooH you must have studied a lot of Buddhism" Or "Are you a Zen Buddhist (flutter flutter)?"
Me "sure honey, bend over, I'll show you the 7 levels of self awareness"

Eventually, tho after enough people kept telling I must have read a lot of Zen Buddhism, I broke down and read some..

And I see what they meant..

Though I have most affinity with certain parts of Tao thoughts, and those Zen writers who were influences by Taoist thinking.

Enlightenment thru action.

EDIT: I am now a happily married guy working longer than ever before. My wife is Chinese and in her family they have said just joking a little "You must have been Chinese in a previous life, and probably a Taoist scholar" They say that "because you get it, not just the idea, but the humor, and you must have been Chinese to really understand the humor like you do"

Me: "Wha? please pass the marinated roast piggie knuckles (nom nom nom) "

anthonyvop

21st June 2012, 18:45

Yeah that's my excuse. Self-employed, 2 kids under 8, and living in Fortress America™........ "It's not so bad, on Christmas I only work 1/2 day: 12 hours"

Life is a series of choices.

Just because you made some bad ones it doesn't mean that I should care let alone feel sorry for you.

janvanvurpa

21st June 2012, 18:50

Life is a series of choices.

Just because you made some bad ones it doesn't mean that I should care let alone feel sorry for you.

Troll:
Troll elsewhere.

It's humor, you know it, you are trying to get a response.
Even you are not so stupid to fail to see that.

Go away

ioan

21st June 2012, 18:50

No. I'm determined to do this. When I'll do it I'll do it in style. And I hope I'll land on the head of the right person.

For everyone's sake I hope you live and work on ground floor.

ioan

21st June 2012, 18:53

Dear me....I dream about a possibility to return to my sunny Greece and live a quiet old age on a beach, without anybody to f.... my brain anymore.

I thought you were about to jump out of the window. Now I understand you plan to jump from your yacht's window into the see!
As for F'in your brains, man that's really perverted.

BDunnell

21st June 2012, 23:11

Life is a series of choices.

Just because you made some bad ones it doesn't mean that I should care let alone feel sorry for you.

Isn't it interesting that a generally respectful discussion in which a number of people have opened up and shown some quite deep-seated feelings should then bring about a contribution such as this above, which reveals the individual making it to be, in my view, virtually devoid of heart or compassion towards fellow human beings.

Tony, do you feel you have ever made a bad decision in life?

gadjo_dilo

22nd June 2012, 09:13

For everyone's sake I hope you live and work on ground floor.

I live on ground floor but I work on the 6th. Anyway my death wouldn't have any impact if I sacrifice myself on an obscure street of Bucharest. Working place is the perfect choice.

I thought you were about to jump out of the window. Now I understand you plan to jump from your yacht's window into the see!.

You misunderstand me ( as usual ). I DREAM to live on a greek beach. A dream that will never come true - like most of my dreams. Matter of fact I've never been in Greece although I have many relatives to whom I'm on very good terms.
I PLAN to jump and I'll do it.

gadjo_dilo

22nd June 2012, 15:14

My wife is Chinese and in her family they have said just joking a little "You must have been Chinese in a previous life, and probably a Taoist scholar" They say that "because you get it, not just the idea, but the humor, and you must have been Chinese to really understand the humor like you do"

That's interesting. I try to recall a sample of chinese humour and I can't.
Fair to say that except for the merchants from Europa complex I've never met a chinese. And you can hardly perceive a sense of humour when you're negotiating a price.

D-Type

22nd June 2012, 23:54

A Chinese joke:
"The Cantonese will eat anything with 4 legs - except the table"

janvanvurpa

23rd June 2012, 03:14

A Chinese joke:
"The Cantonese will eat anything with 4 legs - except the table"

My father in law once said "We Cantonese will eat everything on the table---except the legs"

But my wife says she never hear the joke you mentioned..
I think it is more a joke gwei los repeat, but that's OK.

Now gadjo I suggest you search and watch--all available on You-Tube---Stephen Chow's great films "God of Cooking" and Shaolin Soccer" and of course the epic "Kung Fu Hustle"

"Film critic Roger Ebert (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Ebert) described the film "like Jackie Chan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Chan) and Buster Keaton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buster_Keaton) meet Quentin Tarantino (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quentin_Tarantino) and Bugs Bunny (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugs_Bunny)" at the Sundance Film Festival.[52] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fu_Hustle#cite_note-51) The comment was printed on the promotion posters for Kung Fu Hustle in the United States.[53] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fu_Hustle#cite_note-52)[54] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fu_Hustle#cite_note-53) Other critics described it as a comedic version of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crouching_Tiger,_Hidden_Dragon).[55] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fu_Hustle#cite_note-54) Positive reviews generally give credit to the elements of mo lei tau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mo_lei_tau) comedy present in the film.[56] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fu_Hustle#cite_note-55) A number of reviewers viewed it as a computer-enhanced Looney Tunes punch-up.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fu_Hustle#cite_note-Rotten_Tomatoes-6)[57] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fu_Hustle#cite_note-56) In a 2010 GQ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GQ) interview, actor Bill Murray (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Murray) called Kung Fu Hustle "the supreme achievement of the modern age in terms of comedy."[58] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fu_Hustle#cite_note-57)

Pretty good endorsement from Mr Murray.

From Wiki:

Turmoil grips Shanghai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai) in the 1940s. Various gangs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triad_%28underground_society%29) vie for power, the most feared of which is the Axe Gang, led by the infamous Brother Sum and aptly named after its weapon of choice. In the absence of law enforcement, people can live peacefully only in poor areas which do not appeal to gangs. An example is Pig Sty Alley, a tenement home to people of various trades, run by a lecherous landlord and his domineering wife. One day, two troublemakers, Sing and Bone, come to the alley impersonating members of the Axe Gang to gain respect. Their plan fails and Sing's antics attract the real gang to the scene. In the massive brawl that ensues, more than fifty gangsters are defeated by three tenants who are actually powerful martial arts masters: Coolie, Master of the Twelve Kicks; Tailor, master of the Iron Fist; and Donut, master of the Hexagon Staff.

Read more:
Kung Fu Hustle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fu_Hustle)

The films are everything from utter nonsense and slapstick to loving appreciation of ordinary people--or people that seem ordinary but possess, when the need is there, heroic levels of brotherhood and solidarity, and bravery and who when the going gets tough, rise up and do the right thing..Subtle cultural references abound..
Talking serious film with some folks here who, totally ignorant of anything of China, said "he's ridiculing everything whaaaaaa! whaaaaaaa!!" i said, no, its humorous appreciation, he's laughing with everybody else....not at.

I was right, at least according to anybody thoughtful in China and Hong Kong writing on film...
My own wife said that she has learned a deeper appreciation of the strength and solidness of her culture when I have talked to her about these, on the surface, silly films... but then again, absurdity is a part of life and we may as well laugh at it, if we are wise anyway.

Good luck, have a good time.
watch those three so you get a feel for the common themes...

ioan

23rd June 2012, 19:25

My father in law once said "We Cantonese will eat everything on the table---except the legs"

Most probably because the legs are usually under the table.

anthonyvop

24th June 2012, 00:29

Isn't it interesting that a generally respectful discussion in which a number of people have opened up and shown some quite deep-seated feelings should then bring about a contribution such as this above, which reveals the individual making it to be, in my view, virtually devoid of heart or compassion towards fellow human beings.

Tony, do you feel you have ever made a bad decision in life?

I have made my share of bad decisions.

I have also learned from my mistakes and I HAVE NEVER DEMANDED that Others be forced to pay for my mistakes.

In all my posts I have never once stated that you should be prevented from helping others you feel deserves it. Express what you call "compassion" all you want.

I just reject the notion that you have a right to decide what I should feel "compassion" for.

There is no honor is spending other people's money.