Chevy team owners trying to oust Randy Bernard

[numanoid]

So Twitter kinda blew up last night with the allegations of several full time team owners (all Chevy) trying to get RB fired. RB tweeted that this was in fact true. I think the story broke on a local Indy sports radio show and I did hear Robin Miller going into some details about it. I'd imagine this is all due to "Turbogate" and the fact that Honda took 1-2 in the 500.

I find the timing funny as RB was awarded the "STP Unsung Hero" award by Andy Granatelli just days earlier. He said RB had done more for the series in 27 months than anyone in the last 27 years.

Barfield came out with some cryptic tweets as well that night.

What say you? Is RB doing a good job or a poor one? Should he stay in or be ousted?

[FIAT1]

Randy is doing superb job, and a fact that owners are not pleased I know he definitly is doing his job well. I hope I'm wrong on this but I smell tg and company in this.

[numanoid]

Apparently it's 1 owner lobbying others to get him fired. Not sure who the owner is, but sources close to it say it is not Penske.

[Jag_Warrior]

Wonder if he's going to try to give them all $25,000 fines? :D

But seriously, I think Bernard has done a very good job so far, especially considering the limited resources that he apparently has at his disposal. What the owners probably want is another stooge that they can boss around. These guys aren't used to being told what to do. Let's just be honest, whether looking at CART or the IRL, this sport has been headed by complete and total goof balls for many years - which is part of what has so deeply wounded this sport: Andrew Craig, Joe Heitzler, Kevin Kalkhoven, Tony George, et al. None of them were good sports business managers or visionary leaders. And none of the upper echelon owners in Indy Car (as far as I know) have any kind of successful track record in sports business entertainment. Some/most do have a successful track record as team owners or race track owners. But when it comes to taking a series from a position of weakness to a position of growth (not just survival), I wouldn't want ANY of them calling the shots. As with CART, they'll do what's best for themselves first and what's good for the series second - and that's a big part of how we got to the lowly place that we are right now!

IMO, the Hulman-George family should let Bernard know, in no uncertain terms, that his position is safe, and he should then (in tactful way) tell Penske and all the other owners to just shut up and race!!! And if they don't like that, they can go be backmarkers in F1 or NASCAR. No other top series needs or cares about even the biggest Indy Car owners. Best that they stay where they are and try to make things better for all.

[Phoenixent]

Apparently it's 1 owner lobbying others to get him fired. Not sure who the owner is, but sources close to it say it is not Penske.

I would lay money on it being Ed Carpenter as his step father is still running the show and Ed Carpenter Racing(Vision Racing). He is also the one most upset that RB told the public about it ans it goes to show how much of a POS Ed Carpenter and Tony George are......

[numanoid]

Robin Miller posted an article that sheds a little light on things as well as look over RB's wins and areas for improvement.

Miller: The Most Repulsive Revolt (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/miller-the-most-repulsive-revolt/)

[SarahFan]

I've heard it's John Barnes ..

I say keep randy fire Barnes

[DBell]

Here is another article on the "unrest".

Chevy teams grow restless with Bernard | Page 1 | IndyCar News | May 2012 | Crash.Net (http://www.crash.net/indycar/news/180309/1/chevy_teams_grow_restless_with_bernard.html)

You have to admit, no one does self-inflicted damage like IndyCar. That group doesn't mess around, they strap hand grenades to themselves.

[00steven]

Robin also reported Tony George wants control. Needless to say, if that happens I'm done.
Randy actually cares and has done a fantastic job. I say lock Barnes out of Indycar.

[methanolHuffer]

So correct me if I'm wrong:

Chevy team(s) are miffed that Honda was allowed to develop a better turbo (after they went in with an inferior set-up, I assume)? I can kind of see that might be a valid complaint. Why can't Chevrolet do more development? Indycar should at least give them something. Of course there shouldn't be a tech war so soon, but give Chevy teams a little something to pacify them. Like children need to be.

Getting rid of Randy would NOT be an acceptable move. Chevy teams feel slighted so they scream and cry like children? I kind of get the feeling that team owners - all team owners - get to their position in life by being fussy. Never give a quarter BUT expect one in return.

I swear, don't they even care that they make themselves and their teams look pathetic for being so childish? Will they think that race fans can look at a Chevy logo and not think of this situation that they are trying to create?

[beachbum]

I've heard it's John Barnes ..

I say keep randy fire Barnes
Barnes is the most likely candidate. He is probably still upset about being fined for his twitter remarks - acting like a spoiled child.

[call_me_andrew]

For too long Chevy has suffered under RB! And by "too long," I mean it hasn't happened yet.

[numanoid]

So correct me if I'm wrong:

Chevy team(s) are miffed that Honda was allowed to develop a better turbo (after they went in with an inferior set-up, I assume)? I can kind of see that might be a valid complaint. Why can't Chevrolet do more development? Indycar should at least give them something. Of course there shouldn't be a tech war so soon, but give Chevy teams a little something to pacify them. Like children need to be.

Getting rid of Randy would NOT be an acceptable move. Chevy teams feel slighted so they scream and cry like children? I kind of get the feeling that team owners - all team owners - get to their position in life by being fussy. Never give a quarter BUT expect one in return.

I swear, don't they even care that they make themselves and their teams look pathetic for being so childish? Will they think that race fans can look at a Chevy logo and not think of this situation that they are trying to create?

To get the whole deal on the "TurboGate" controversy, you can google it, but from my memory it goes something like this...

In a meeting before the season started, all parties agreed if there wasn't parity in the turbos the manufacturer that was at a disadvantage could make some changes. The thing was that they had lost the meeting minutes of the meeting so it wasn't "officially" a rule. Chevy people said if it isn't an official rule, then Honda should not be allowed to make the changes. They brought someone in to hear the case and it was determined that Honda could make the changes they wanted. This was not a redesign of the turbo and no additional horsepower was granted. I believe it was the compressor cover or something that was an aero change to the initial spec. It was not engine development and Indycar did the right thing and did not allow Lotus to change their engine specs to compete at Indy.

It seems to me that it was nitpicking on the part of Chevy owners (and poor sportsmanship to boot) to challenge and then appeal the decision. It speaks loudly to exactly what Miller is saying about the good of the series vs the good of the owners.

[FIAT1]

[quote="numanoid"]Robin Miller posted an article that sheds a little light on things as well as look over RB's wins and areas for improvement.


I knew it was tg and old club of losers the moment Ed responded with out provocation. Day that tg comes back I'm done with Indycar for good, and I'm sure there is many fans like me who couldn't take this garbage one more time. Idiots, they should be embracing and celebrating great season to date, but no they want to descurige fans like me to come back and buy the tickets
and help make Indycar great again. Disgusting!

[FIAT1]

Rumors and reports of strife spoil Indy 500 boost | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/05/30/rumors-and-reports-strife-spoil-indy-500-boost/)

[Nikki Katz]

Hmph. I really hope that this doesn't happen.
Personally I don't see what was wrong with a spec series, though I do see why the chassis needed to be changed. And I'm not at all supportive of these weird fines that seem to get handed out to teams every now and then, when drivers that cause collisions generally get off without penalty. Having to be bailed out by Andretti for a couple of the tracks is not ideal either. But I think in general that Bernard's done a much better job than his predecessors in a short amount of time, and the move to oust him just because he wanted to try to ensure something approaching engine parity instead of having Power win every single race is really pathetic.
IndyCar's had some tough times recently and it could really do without this. Didn't the teams used to help each other instead of suing each other? That's the one bit of F1 that I'd rather the IRL didn't incorporate!

Also, I'd hate to have George back in charge considering that he caused most of the series' problems in the first place.

[anthonyvop]

Interesting all the hatred directed towards Tony George when if it wasn't for him there would be no IndyCar Series

[SarahFan]

That's a dumb post

[anthonyvop]

Today is much better than the last 10 - 15 years and is looking up for sure.

Is it?


Apparently some who have an actual financial stake don't agree with you!

[00steven]

Interesting all the hatred directed towards Tony George when if it wasn't for him there would be no IndyCar Series

If not for the merger, I don't think there would be an open wheel series in America. It's clear the current Indycar series draws inspiration from CART and the old IRL guys like TG and John Barnes don't like that.

[anthonyvop]

If not for the merger, I don't think there would be an open wheel series in America. It's clear the current Indycar series draws inspiration from CART and the old IRL guys like TG and John Barnes don't like that.

It was under TG that the IRL switched from an All Oval series to one that is run predominantly of road/street courses.

[Chris R]

This whole thing seems kinda strange. For those who think it is bad for Indycar - how often does Indy stay in the news the full week after the race?? In this case, I am pretty sure there is no such thing as bad PR....

Sounds like the owners have some legit gripes about the cost overruns on the new equipment.

I cannot believe this is over "turbo-gate" as, if I am capable of understanding that the change to the turbo housing (not a "new" turbo as many have said) was within the rules (as were two independent panels/judges) I am quite sure the team owners know it was within the rules.

Chevy pulled their "fast one" (mass engine changes) a little too early in the season - I am sure everyone "in the know" realizes that too...

The bottom line is that if anyone wants Randy fired, it is not over "turbogate" or other rules issues. Perhaps it is over costs, perhaps over the fact that someone is actually policing the rules now, or perhaps just a plain old grab for power.... OR, this is a clever way to keep the series in the news for very little cost (if that is the case they may want to do something to make the whole lot of them sounds less like spoiled, whiny 5 year olds...) and on that level it seems to be working.....

[djparky]

Randy Bernard has done more for Indy Car than anyone else has since 1996- if they get rid of him and re-instate TG then they only have themselves to blame for what happens next. Utter madness on behalf of the teams owners- but then again there is history- saw it in CART as well

[FIAT1]

[quote="Starter"]You're absolutely correct. It would still be CART.


Wrong! I remeber until 96 was Indycar with stars,cars and fans in big numbers. Then tg happened. This is not to restart old bs just the fact that was Indycar world series before great visionary force them through court system to change the name. Indycar with Randy is in good place now and fans are coming back therefore last thing Indycar needs a dude who was ousted by his family for lack of business savvy and blowing family fortune. I know there are people that worship this amateur but this is my opinion, there is nothing personal here. I just wish that these idiots would see a good thing and let it prosper and live it alone.

[Jag_Warrior]

It was under TG that the IRL switched from an All Oval series to one that is run predominantly of road/street courses.

Yeah, but it was under Tony George that the IRL began as an all oval series to begin with. So... there's still that. Eventually correcting a serious error in judgement does not excuse one from making the initial mistake in the first place.

But we can't go back and relive the past. We are where we are now. And IMO the best thing these owners can do now is stop whining and start getting on with the program. Things have marginally improved. But in its current state, comparatively speaking, the series is about on par with GP2 in too many ways. The teams seem to have largely lost the ability to present themselves (their drivers and and their sponsors) to the public the way they used to. Now, in that, they can look to the past and realize what they used to do (that worked), and what they need to start doing again.

[anthonyvop]

I was just wondering about all of the hate here directed at the person who created and developed the very same series you all claim to be fans of!

It is like loving your iPod/iPhone/iPad but hating Steve Jobs.

[Chris R]

I was just wondering about all of the hate here directed at the person who created and developed the very same series you all claim to be fans of!

It is like loving your iPod/iPhone/iPad but hating Steve Jobs.

This series is Indycar - it is the descendant of a long line of American open wheel racing series' that have had lots of political infighting for decades, tons of inept leadership and despite all of the mis-steps has somehow survived inspite of itself. Tony George is just part of the continuum that is AOWR. Yes he founded the IRL and the nuts and bolts of the IRL are what make up the current sanctioning body - but what we have now is not really what TG founded - it is just a continuation of the latest evolution of AOWR (which I believe started with the Cooper Climax in 1961).... So, it is ok to "hate" TG and "Love" indycar - they are really two different things (at least in my mind)... Also, functionally this series is much closer to CART circa 1990 than IRL circa 1997 and if you want to get real technical it is even more like USAC circa 1968 (sans the dirt tracks and a bit heavier on the road courses)....

[Jag_Warrior]

I was just wondering about all of the hate here directed at the person who created and developed the very same series you all claim to be fans of!

It is like loving your iPod/iPhone/iPad but hating Steve Jobs.

Except that those particular products that Steve Jobs created were successful and profitable, pretty much out of the gate. And there's been no need to radically change them from his original "vision" in order to keep the train moving. ;)

[djparky]

I was just wondering about all of the hate here directed at the person who created and developed the very same series you all claim to be fans of!

It is like loving your iPod/iPhone/iPad but hating Steve Jobs.

hmm well actually he helped destroy the best open wheel racing series on the planet by creating his pointless (and unneccessary) racing series in the first place- helped in no small measure by the equally incompetent CART series owners and team bosses who alas ran that series into the ground. What we have now is just the next stage of rebuilding from 15 years of madness- sort of what CART looked like back in the early 90's. Bring back Road America and Phoenix and it is 1991 all over again

either way RB is the man to get the job done- and the series should be supportive of him. I've followed the series more closely since TG was ousted a couple of years ago- I couldn't bring myself to watch it much before

[00steven]

It was under TG that the IRL switched from an All Oval series to one that is run predominantly of road/street courses.

TG added a few street races, but not close to what the series of today is.

[FIAT1]

I was just wondering about all of the hate here directed at the person who created and developed the very same series you all claim to be fans of!

It is like loving your iPod/iPhone/iPad but hating Steve Jobs.

New cars, best talent on the grid in years, best racing this season in years, best 500 in years, but everyone in media and fan circels is talking and writing obout this garbage, and that is why fans like me have big dislike for tg. Hate? No,but more time he spends fishing, better Indycar and fans will be.

[anthonyvop]

Just saying that if anyone had heaped all this current hate on TG 3 years ago in a IndyCar/IRL forum they would have been branded a agent provocateur, a non-fan or (Gasp!) a Champ Car fan!

Anyway......back to the original topic.

[Lousada]

Most people here are from the old CART forum so it should not be much of a surprise I think.

[FIAT1]

Indycar ,cart, champcar fans have endured a lot in recent years and only thing they want is prosperous series and good racing when they spend their money to see the race.
Perhaps last thing they need is a rerun of destruction, after they give their full support to series ,and perhaps they are sick and tired of being labeled just because they deslike players who after all these years did not learned a lesson why they have empty stands, and they are willing to destroy the fan base one more time for their own selfish reason. That's All I'm Saying...

[anthonyvop]

and only thing they want is prosperous series and good racing

A general, feel good, statement that means nothing. What is "good racing" to you might be boring, unwatchable racing for me!

[anthonyvop]

New cars, best talent on the grid in years, best racing this season in years, best 500 in years, but everyone in media and fan circels is talking and writing obout this garbage, and that is why fans like me have big dislike for tg. Hate? No,but more time he spends fishing, better Indycar and fans will be.

I can argue the "best talent on the grid in years" part for a long time. The racing has been good and I can see how some people were excited about the Indy 500. But don't forget to add in stagnant attendance # (except Brazil because of Barricello) low TV ratings and allegations of favoritism towards one manufacturer. Not to mention costs much higher than expected, a delay in different aero kits and the whole Lotus isssue.

[FIAT1]

A general, feel good, statement that means nothing. What is "good racing" to you might be boring, unwatchable racing for me!

I could really care less what type racing you like, and I did post that racing this season is best in years, but I completely understand how challenging can be for someone who compares Tg to Steve Jobs to see that post was obout much bigger issue.

[anthonyvop]

I could really care less what type racing you like, and I did post that racing this season is best in years, but I completely understand how challenging can be for someone who compares Tg to Steve Jobs to see that post was obout much bigger issue.


You stated :


and only thing they want is prosperous series and good racing

Now if the fact that some people might night agree with you about what is good racing may be a surprise to you but it is a Fact!

Starting next week Indycar will run on 3 straight ovals........Hard for me and many others to get excited about that.

[FIAT1]

Now if the fact that some people might night agree with you about what is good racing may be a surprise to you but it is a Fact!

Starting next week Indycar will run on 3 straight ovals........Hard for me and many others to get excited about that.


Hmm, and I thought that my posts are pretty clear. Sorry dude I can't help you any better.Good day!

[Jag_Warrior]

However you look at it, I haven't seen anyone make a good, rational explanation as to how the series would be any better without Randy Bernard calling the shots. Let the Hulman-George family go ahead and get rid of him. Who are they going to replace him with??? And without being given more resources to work with (by the family) than Bernard has been given, how would this person do any better? What would he/she do that Bernard isn't doing?

Randy Bernard isn't above criticism. Not every idea that he's had has been a winner. But compared to the sinkhole that this series has been over the past 15 years or so, at least the bleeding appears to have stopped now - or at least, things aren't getting worse. The final ratings for the Indy 500 were actually up by about 8% (from what I read). And instead of people yammering about a driver whose only value to the series was her racy commercials (IMO), at least this year people were talking about the racing and the finish... and yeah, the engine controversy. But played properly, controversy can be a good thing. It gives people something relevant to discuss.

[FIAT1]

I think that Randy is not doing nothing without aproval of the family, perhaps he is a scapegoat for his bosses and their bad decisions. Teams are having a meeting in Detroit, does that mean white paper again. Just a thought.

[anthonyvop]

Hmm, and I thought that my posts are pretty clear. Sorry dude I can't help you any better.Good day!

As were mine. See ya

[Nem14]

Some posters here seem to have been living in a universe parallel to this one. ; )

[Mark in Oshawa]

Randy Bernard has slowly but surely taken this series and put it back on the rails to respectability. He had the sense to make changes when it was clear Tony George's fair haired boy Barnhart couldn't manage the actual racing, and he got all the owners on the same page to get a new car on track. He is trying to manage engines, which isn't easy, which I guess has him in hot water. This will pass if the owners of the series (Mari Hulman and the sisters) realize that changing horses is a bad idea. This series is really starting to trend upward in the eyes of the race fans, and now we require patience and small changes.

People, look to NASCAR this year and notice the griping and complaining about the racing. People want to see good racing, and Indycar has provided that. This year's Indy 500 was about as good as any I have seen in a long time. The TV package looks better, the car looks decent, races well, and they are getting a handle on stability with promotors and track owners. IF the Hulman-George clan can't see all this, then they deserve to be holding the bag. Randy hasn't been perfect, but he knows bull ****e after being around them in the rodeo world. This tempest in a teapot shall pass. The owners are often rich guys with no sense of the big picture. Which is why all successful series are run by benign dictators....Randy needs to be given the authority to be tougher, and he must BE tougher.

[Chris R]

I can argue the "best talent on the grid in years" part for a long time. The racing has been good and I can see how some people were excited about the Indy 500. But don't forget to add in stagnant attendance # (except Brazil because of Barricello) low TV ratings and allegations of favoritism towards one manufacturer. Not to mention costs much higher than expected, a delay in different aero kits and the whole Lotus isssue.

When was the grid in aggregate better? I don't think this field is head and shoulders above any other - but I'd say it is the best field of aggregate talent since the early 1990's for sure (and this is most certainly qualify as "in years"...). I will go so far as to say that there is a good chance we will look back o this field over the next 2-3 years as one of the best ever in 20 years - but only time and future results will determine the validity of that supposition.

Attendance and tv have been cruddy for years - and I suspect that regardless of what anybody does those are facts that will remain for years to come ...

The other stuff you cite sounds like auto-racing to me. These are always price over-runs. There is always some sort of rules controversy. If there weren't these thing the sport would be as boring as watching cars drive in circles all day ;)

The more I think about it, without all the BS the whole lot of us wouldn't be here talking about Indycar at all.

[SarahFan]

This series is far from perfect ... And frankly Randy's experiment with the 5 outside racers free tickets etc at Vegas las year was a complete and utter flop on par with any and all the blunders in aowr history

But for a poster to compare tony to Steve jobs might be the silliest comment ever written

[Jag_Warrior]

But for a poster to compare tony to Steve jobs might be the silliest comment ever written

I wouldn't even compare him to the likes of Steve Ballmer, much less Steve Jobs.

But like I asked, who would these village idiots replace Bernard with? Jargon Joe Heitzler, Andy Evans, Andrew Craig? How about Flavio Briatore? I hear he's not all that busy these days? Maybe they could get Bernie Madoff to run it from his jail cell.

At least at the plant level, I've had a hand in firing more than a few incompetent managers over the years. But one thing I learned early on, even when dealing with the biggest goof ball in the world, before you fire him, you better have SOME idea of who you're going to replace him with. As smart as these owners are *supposed* to be about business, do they not realize this basic and fundamental concept???

So for anyone here who wants to see Bernard gone, would you please offer up a name for a replacement?

[FIAT1]

IndyCar Series CEO Randy Bernard says he has team owners' support | Detroit Free Press | freep.com (http://www.freep.com/article/20120603/SPORTS16/120603027/randy-bernard-IndyCar-series)


This is new, hmm, no Penske? Well ,you be the judge.

[anthonyvop]

Randy Bernard has slowly but surely taken this series and put it back on the rails to respectability.

Do you feel the same way after the fiasco that was Detroit?

A lot of people today were saying that you can't blame RB for what happened today. I guess the old adage, "the Buck Stops Here" doesn't apply in this type of leadership

[garyshell]

Do you feel the same way after the fiasco that was Detroit?

A lot of people today were saying that you can't blame RB for what happened today. I guess the old adage, "the Buck Stops Here" doesn't apply in this type of leadership

what part of this fiasco did Randy have direct control of?

The track conditiion, nope. The tv switch, nope.


Gary

[anthonyvop]

what part of this fiasco did Randy have direct control of?

The track conditiion, nope. The tv switch, nope.


Gary

Of course he had control of the track conditions. Wasn't there a inspection? If there was then he failed. If there wasn't then he failed.

[garyshell]

Of course he had control of the track conditions. Wasn't there a inspection? If there was then he failed. If there wasn't then he failed.

So Randy is supposed to be doing these inspections himself? Of course we both know that is not the case. Now, given that, if he is told by the folks who did the inspection that things looked ok, he's not supposed to take their word for it? Yes the buck may stop with him, but it was still not something under his direct control.

Wasn't there an ALMS race there the day before? Did the track break up then? If not, what expectation would Randy have that it would today. Look this was a really bad outcome today, I agree. I just don't see how it falls on Randy's head.

Gary

[SarahFan]

Anthony has a point...

I own a couple restaurants.... And even if I'm on vacation and one my cooks over cooks a steak ultimately thats my responsibility

[anthonyvop]

So Randy is supposed to be doing these inspections himself? Of course we both know that is not the case. Now, given that, if he is told by the folks who did the inspection that things looked ok, he's not supposed to take their word for it? Yes the buck may stop with him, but it was still not something under his direct control.

Wasn't there an ALMS race there the day before? Did the track break up then? If not, what expectation would Randy have that it would today. Look this was a really bad outcome today, I agree. I just don't see how it falls on Randy's head.

Gary

Are you telling me because he is COO Randy has no responsibility of how the series is actually run?

He is the boss. If the people who he hired FAILED in the track inspection then he FAILED as a Chief Operating Officer. The Business world is littered with the carcasses of former business leaders who failed to lead.

BTW It was Grand-Am not ALMS and I have heard from some people that yes, parts of the track were coming up on Saturday.

[Chris R]

Ultimately, the buck stops at Randy - if they did not properly check out the course ahead of time that would be his fault for not insisting it be right and once the situation became bad he should have "lead" to some sort of solution (which he may have done behind the scenes). Basically this is a perfect example of the old adage "PPPPPPP" - proper prior planning prevents pi** poor performance.... and Randy is responsible for proper prior planning...

The real problem here is the series continues to deal from a potion of weakness and as such does not have the power to tell promoters, teams, etc. to "do it right or get lost"... I am fine with racing in Detroit on a less than ideal race course for the sake of Chevy etc. It is not ok for that course to then fall apart (much like the rest of the infrastructure of this country). The promoters should have known better....

But, I agree, Randy has to accept responsibility and deal with this fiasco - not pass the buck......

[jarrambide]

Anthony has a point...

I own a couple restaurants.... And even if I'm on vacation and one my cooks over cooks a steak ultimately thats my responsibility

In that example, you are the responsible one but it is not your fault, there is a difference there, it becomes your fault if you don't take actions and it keeps happening again, again, and again.

[SarahFan]

Responsibility is greater/trumps fault

[dataman1]

Interesting reading from passionate people I must say.

The basics of this post was to deal with the owners trying to get rid of Randy. They have no power to do so and only a few have the ear of "The Family".

I think Randy was smart blasting it on twitter and keeping the series in the media's attention. Even the bad track problems at Detroit will keep the media's interest a few more days. Media coverage is good and controversy sells TV time.

I agree with RM, he needs a trusted racing veteran owner to help him. But my advise is to Randy is to watch your back when making that selection. What is Mo Nunn doing these days?

[jarrambide]

Responsibility is greater/trumps fault

Most certainly, but Anthony's point was that it was his fault, I'm saying that thee is a difference between being the responsible one and the one at fault, you fire the one at fault, not the responsible one, you fire the responsible one only when he or she is uncapable of taking corrective actions.

In this case, obviously, you can't fire the one at fault because promoters don't work for the racing leagues, getting rid of the race might not be a solution either, lets be honest, promoters and tracks are not fighting to stage Indy races, but I do want to see him taking every possible measure to avoid something like this if they use this track next year.

His job is not easy, he can't choose and pick, this is not F1 where Ecclestone has to choose between tracks he wants, tracks that are willing to pay him a lot of money, tracks that will improve the F1 brand, and tracks of governments willing to do everything and anything to stage a race, in Indy you try to do the best you can with what you have.

[SarahFan]

Without splitting too many hairs ..

Responsibility always encompasses fault

The other way around not so much

[Blancvino]

I was just wondering about all of the hate here directed at the person who created and developed the very same series you all claim to be fans of!

It is like loving your iPod/iPhone/iPad but hating Steve Jobs.

That's easy, Steve Jobs and the grandson were/are A##holes!

[garyshell]

Are you telling me because he is COO Randy has no responsibility of how the series is actually run?

He is the boss. If the people who he hired FAILED in the track inspection then he FAILED as a Chief Operating Officer. The Business world is littered with the carcasses of former business leaders who failed to lead.

BTW It was Grand-Am not ALMS and I have heard from some people that yes, parts of the track were coming up on Saturday.


No, i'm not trying to say he has no reposibility, because ultimately he does have reponsibility in how the series is run. You hire people to do a job, you take their recommendations and you act on them. If they give you bad recommendations, you remove them. That is his responsibility in this. But to say its directly his fault that the track broke up, just doesn't make sense to me.

Take Sarahfan's example. If the cook burns the steak, it's the cooks fault. It Sarahfan's responsibility to discipline the cook for doing so.

Gary

[Blancvino]

Do anyone really expect a bankrupt city to maintain roads to race ready conditions? They are shutting city street lights for goodness sake.


No, i'm not trying to say he has no reposibility, because ultimately he does have reponsibility in how the series is run. You hire people to do a job, you take their recommendations and you act on them. If they give you bad recommendations, you remove them. That is his responsibility in this. But to say its directly his fault that the track broke up, just doesn't make sense to me.

Take Sarahfan's example. If the cook burns the steak, it's the cooks fault. It Sarahfan's responsibility to discipline the cook for doing so.

Gary

[garyshell]

Roger Penske apparently did. Where are the calls for Roger's head in this fiasco? Isn't this ultimately HIS responsibility?

Gary

[Jag_Warrior]

Do anyone really expect a bankrupt city to maintain roads to race ready conditions? They are shutting city street lights for goodness sake.

Point well taken. But the city's fiscal situation was known by all well before the race. So it seems that those promoting the race would have gotten involved to make certain that the proper surface was down and that it would be safe. Also, consider Detroit's fiscal issues compared to Spain's. I know one is a city and the other a country. But Spain is in at least as bad a shape economically as Detroit, if not worse. Yet the Spanish Grand Prix went off without a hitch.


Roger Penske apparently did. Where are the calls for Roger's head in this fiasco? Isn't this ultimately HIS responsibility?

Gary

I didn't get to see the race or what happened with the surface exactly - I've had to rely on (ALL!) the online stories that are talking more about the red flag, and not about the race itself. But I agree with you. Considering that Penske has been a major force behind this race, he should also share some of the blame. Lots of blame to go around. And it's a real shame that this (and the attempts to fire Bernard) is what is in the news. But hopefully the series, the teams and the promoters will learn from this experience going forward. I doubt they will. But one must hope.

[anthonyvop]

Roger Penske apparently did. Where are the calls for Roger's head in this fiasco? Isn't this ultimately HIS responsibility?

Gary


Yes he is responsible as well.

[Mark in Oshawa]

This mess in Detroit is only Randy's fault if you are willing to absolve Roger Penske, Beaux Barfield and all the experts who looked at the layout and said the patches would hold up. Sometimes it is what it is. In the final scheme of things, this little fiasco will be down the road and forgotten about if it is an isolated incident and they have learned from it.....

[Mark in Oshawa]

As for comparing this to the mess of Spain, it is an apples and oranges argument. Spain isn't in the same mess Detroit is, anyone who has been there will tell you that their problems are not so bad they have let the place go. Detroit looks like the Luftwaffe of 1940 was using the place for bombing runs.....and the mess that its financial books are in is systemic and stupidity going back decades.....

[mike15]

CEO Randy Bernard has been a refreshing change for IndyCar.
Not being tied to the IRL, car owners along with no ties to the most recent divisive open wheel racing history, has been a huge help to restoring American Open Wheel Racing.
That said, bring back TG or anybody tied to the AOW past, would be a disaster.

[Jag_Warrior]

As for comparing this to the mess of Spain, it is an apples and oranges argument. Spain isn't in the same mess Detroit is, anyone who has been there will tell you that their problems are not so bad they have let the place go. Detroit looks like the Luftwaffe of 1940 was using the place for bombing runs.....and the mess that its financial books are in is systemic and stupidity going back decades.....

It is an apples and oranges comparison, (as I said) in that one is a city and one is a country. But the fiscal situation in Spain does have many similarities to Detroit: lack of tax revenues relative to spending, very high, systemic unemployment, very high poverty rate, an over-reliance on borrowed funds to maintain basic services, government corruption, etc. As we're now seeing Spain virtually shut out of international credit markets, the situation will deteriorate unless there is a bailout. My ex-fiance moved to Spain after we broke up. Her mother's family emigrated from Spain decades ago. And there are many areas within the country, that tourists never see, that could easily give Detroit a run for its money. The poverty rate is one of the highest in Europe. There is a sprawling slum, called Cañada Real, on the outskirts of Madrid that has over 30,000 people in it. And that's far from the only slum in Spain. But just like Detroit, which I have had to travel to frequently, there are pockets of prosperity around Spain too.

But my main point was that even in the face of a fiscal nightmare, it was possible to pull off a well organized grand prix. And neither Detroit nor Spain went downhill overnight. So it seems to me that the ICS officials and promoters should have done better due diligence, just as I'm sure the FIA and F1 officials did prior to the Spanish Grand Prix.

And going back to the Bernard situation, who do the owners have waiting in the wings that would NOT have gotten caught up in the Belle Isle mess? He's a perv and weirdo, but he was rather capable. So do the owners actually think that someone like Max Mosley would come work for them? I doubt any capable, competent person in the world of racing would even return their phone calls - even a capable weirdo like Mosley.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Jag, the Spanish Grand Prix came off because they spent the money on the GP because Bernie demands it. In the case of Detroit, there is no money, not even enough to misappropriate. No, other than the track coming up, the facility was going to work as well as it could considering, and it was the people who told Roger and Randy that ya, the track was ready. They could be called incompetant, but I wouldn't be that harsh. Not every mistake means someone should be canned. Embarassing as this is, in the end, it was a mistake. They almost made it through the whole weekend and got caught halfway through the race. Had Friday not been a total washout, the track would have been coming up in Saturday's Grand Am race....or Indycar practice. It would have been fixed over night and nothing would have been thought about. Lesson learned, it wont happen again, life moves on.

For people to be calling for Randy's head over this is retarded, but I never underestimate Indycar owners for killing their own sport. They are really good at it.....

[anthonyvop]

For people to be calling for Randy's head over this is retarded, but I never underestimate Indycar owners for killing their own sport. They are really good at it.....

Retarded? Really?

[Mark in Oshawa]

Retarded? Really?

Really. You want to go all PC and say I used the wrong word? Or are you objecting to me calling a bunch of millionaire car owners idiots for trying to fire the one guy trying to do what is best for the sport rather than what works for them on a team level?

The best racing series are always run by a benign dictator who isn't always so benign if he needs an iron first. I wish Bernard had that iron fist...because a twit like John Barnes needs a slap up side the head. He had no problem with the rules with Chevy was destroying the Honda's, and when the engine rules were adjusted, Honda wins two races and all the sudden everything is all wrong? This is so much like the whining we used to see in NASCAR every February when one make's team would sandbag through Speedweeks and then pull out a killer car with a rules revision......

[anthonyvop]

Really. You want to go all PC and say I used the wrong word? Or are you objecting to me calling a bunch of millionaire car owners idiots for trying to fire the one guy trying to do what is best for the sport rather than what works for them on a team level?

The best racing series are always run by a benign dictator who isn't always so benign if he needs an iron first. I wish Bernard had that iron fist...because a twit like John Barnes needs a slap up side the head. He had no problem with the rules with Chevy was destroying the Honda's, and when the engine rules were adjusted, Honda wins two races and all the sudden everything is all wrong? This is so much like the whining we used to see in NASCAR every February when one make's team would sandbag through Speedweeks and then pull out a killer car with a rules revision......

So if you disagree with some of Randy Bernard's decisions you are "retarded"

Those very same decisions that have given the series a new car way over budget combined with stagnant attendance and TV ratings?

BTW I am being generous by calling it stagnant.

[Jag_Warrior]

Really. You want to go all PC and say I used the wrong word? Or are you objecting to me calling a bunch of millionaire car owners idiots for trying to fire the one guy trying to do what is best for the sport rather than what works for them on a team level?


So if you disagree with some of Randy Bernard's decisions you are "retarded"

Mark can answer for himself, but as I read his question, that's not at all what he said. It's not about disagreeing with Bernard, it's about wanting him fired. And considering that there is probably no one available who would be more capable than Bernard, yes, that is retarded.

No one is claiming that every decision that Bernard has made is flawless. But as I keep asking, who would these geniuses replace him with???

[anthonyvop]

Mark can answer for himself, but as I read his question, that's not at all what he said. It's not about disagreeing with Bernard, it's about wanting him fired. And considering that there is probably no one available who would be more capable than Bernard, yes, that is retarded.

No one is claiming that every decision that Bernard has made is flawless. But as I keep asking, who would these geniuses replace him with???

Considering they got RB from rodeo I think there would be an extremely long list of those qualified.

[Jag_Warrior]

Considering they got RB from rodeo I think there would be an extremely long list of those qualified.

Possibly. But remember what I said: "there is probably no one available who would be more capable than Bernard..."

The various open wheel formula car series in the U.S. have been switching out Presidents and CEO's for 20 years or better. And yet, things have only gotten worse. So, it doesn't seem that the Presidents/CEO's have been the root cause of the problem. Hiring even the best turn-around artist in the world, and then tasking him with turning chicken #### into chicken salad is a fantasy mission. I think the series has made some progress since Bernard has been at the helm. But he doesn't control the family's purse strings (as Tony George did). So he is somewhat limited in what he can accomplish. But no, he hasn't always gotten it right. Has he done a better job than Tony? Other than Bozo the Clown, I doubt anyone could do any worse.

But if these all knowing owners want him gone, and the family is dumb enough to fall for it (which is entirely possible), then he'll be gone. And I figure that in 3-5 years, we'll be back here, still talking about the same issues we're talking about now... that we were talking about five years ago and five years before that. So whoever is CEO at that point... we'll probably need to see him fired too. Let's just keep doing what has never worked. I'm sure at some point it will work out.

[anthonyvop]

Possibly. But remember what I said: "there is probably no one available who would be more capable than Bernard..."


Technically Bernard wasn't available either. He was under the employ of the Rodeo series. There are plenty of people out there who would be as qualified if not better than Randy.

[Jag_Warrior]

Then they should hire one of them. As a matter of fact, if a better, more qualified candidate was available before they hired Bernard, then why didn't they hire that person? Just because someone is available, or willing to take a new offer, that doesn't mean that they'd come work for this organization.

Here's all that I'm saying: struggling organizations that switch out the President/CEO position every couple of years, thinking that THAT will be the missing, magic bullet, very seldom succeed, in my experience.

A few weeks ago, you mentioned the issues some sponsors allegedly had over Barnes' Twitter statement. Well, instability in the executive suite is a sure sign of organizational instability. IMO, to make Bernard (or any other CEO) the scapegoat for all that ails the ICS would confirm to prospective sponsors that this racing body doesn't have a clue and isn't worth the risk.

[bugeyedgomer]

Teams being penalized for shoddy equipment

the teams are being fined and losing points because when they do the post race tech inspections they are finding that some cars fuel bladders are holding up to or a little more then .5 of a gal more then the spec's that the rules state. AJ was fined for being .5 over and Pagenaud's teams was fined for being .05 over. Indycar KNOWS the defects are with the tanks and NOT the teams cheating. They admitted that the manufacturer has told them that the bladders are 'stretching' due to over pressure upon multi re-fueling's. There is no warranty being offered for this defect and in fact the series will not be replacing them until 2013 at best. So here we have a situation where even if the teams under fill a tank during race events and even as in Toronto the teams fined never ran more laps then a normal tank could hold in fuel - Indycar STILL fined them! Does indycar need the money that badly?

There is nothing the teams can do about this situation as there is NO replacement bladder available to a different spec then the one that came with the car. All they can do is order the same spec and replace it more often then normal and 'hope' they are within the spec's when tested.

The teams are now being required to put displacement balls in the tank and verify capacity themselves, because there is a disparity between all of the bladders.

[bugeyedgomer]

The owners shouldn't be complaining. They should happily be spending their resources fixing something the racing series won't

[Jag_Warrior]

So... there is a known defect with a series mandated part and the teams are the ones paying the price (in fines and having to buy additional parts)??? Yep, sounds about right. Why isn't Dallara being taken to task by the series for these issues?

[SarahFan]

RB: "the owners are wrong"

Bernard: DW12 is on course to accomplish its mission - Racer.com (http://app.racer.com/mobile/pages/apparticle.aspx?pagetypeid=128&articleid=250268)

Hmmm

[FIAT1]

RB: "the owners are wrong"

Bernard: DW12 is on course to accomplish its mission - Racer.com (http://app.racer.com/mobile/pages/apparticle.aspx?pagetypeid=128&articleid=250268)

Hmmm

Seams that Randy knows what fans want,don't give up buddy!

[anthonyvop]

Seams that Randy knows what fans want,don't give up buddy!

He does? Low TV and Attendance numbers say different.

Another telling and somewhat troubling fact is that there are no new teams being announced. All you have is Michael Shank racing that can't seem to get an engine deal :P

[FIAT1]

Seams that Randy knows what fans want,don't give up buddy!

Randy, don't give up buddy!!! “Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear . A ship in port is safe, but that’s not what ships are built for."( borrowed qoutes)

[anthonyvop]

Randy, don't give up buddy!!! “Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear . A ship in port is safe, but that’s not what ships are built for."( borrowed qoutes)

Courage?

Saving your own ass isn't courage.

[FIAT1]

Seams that Randy knows what the FANS want,don't give up buddy! You da man!!!

[anthonyvop]

Seams that Randy knows what the FANS want,don't give up buddy! You da man!!!

You have posted that before.

So exactly what is what the fans want?

Seeing as attendance is down at most events an TV is pretty stagnant then one has to come to some logical conclusions if RB knows what the fans want.

He is not doing what the fans want because they ain't buying


or


He doesn't know what the fans want.

[FIAT1]

You have posted that before.

So exactly what is what the fans want?

Seeing as attendance is down at most events an TV is pretty stagnant then one has to come to some logical conclusions if RB knows what the fans want.

He is not doing what the fans want because they ain't buying


or


He doesn't know what the fans want.

Well, you are wrong on tv and attendance, and he didn't had to do anything with old contracts including a new car. Randy did more positive work and mess clean up in most difficult environment and short time than Andrew Craig ,Chris Pook and Brian Barnhart combined. Blaming him is a cheap shot , but I'm on his side for the reason that he brings input from the fans in to his argument. I'm puzzled why all the hate and so much negativity on almost every discussion here .Peace out dude.

[anthonyvop]

Well, you are wrong on tv and attendance, and he didn't had to do anything with old contracts including a new car. Randy did more positive work and mess clean up in most difficult environment and short time than Andrew Craig ,Chris Pook and Brian Barnhart combined. Blaming him is a cheap shot , but I'm on his side for the reason that he brings input from the fans in to his argument. I'm puzzled why all the hate and so much negativity on almost every discussion here .Peace out dude.

Indy TV ratings was up marginally. The rest of the races have been pretty much stagnant.

Attendance(ticket sales) (When reported) have either been stagnant or down.

if you can rave about RB's "Knowing what the fans want" then I can point out that his success or failure has yet to be decided.

[anthonyvop]

I won't argue that at all. There's still a long road ahead. However, I believe that is the first time you've actually said that. The vast majority of your posts on the subject consist of dumping on him, with no positives mentioned in any way.

Hasn't been much "positive" things to talk about as of late.

You want Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy IndyCar news may I suggest The Official Site of IndyCar News, Drivers, Schedule & Shop | IndyCar.com (http://www.indycar.com/)

[jimispeed]

Well IMO I think he's done a pretty damn good job. Series, new car, engine manufacturers and owners, not to mention all the drama that goes with it. Kudos!! He's no dummie!!


But, until the cars have more HP the series will remain what we see now. I don't think the cars need more top speed, but they definitely need to be quicker off the corners!

[anthonyvop]

Well IMO I think he's done a pretty damn good job. Series, new car, engine manufacturers and owners,

I said:


Hasn't been much "positive" things to talk about as of late.

Everything you mentioned happened a year or more ago.

As of late we have had.............?

[TWR-RS-R-R-D]

Teams being penalized for shoddy equipment the teams are being fined and losing points because when they do the post race tech inspections they are finding that some cars fuel bladders are holding up to or a little more then .5 of a gal more then the spec's that the rules state. AJ was fined for being .5 over and Pagenaud's teams was fined for being .05 over. Indycar KNOWS the defects are with the tanks and NOT the teams cheating. They admitted that the manufacturer has told them that the bladders are 'stretching' due to over pressure upon multi re-fueling's. There is no warranty being offered for this defect and in fact the series will not be replacing them until 2013 at best. So here we have a situation where even if the teams under fill a tank during race events and even as in Toronto the teams fined never ran more laps then a normal tank could hold in fuel - Indycar STILL fined them! Does indycar need the money that badly?There is nothing the teams can do about this situation as there is NO replacement bladder available to a different spec then the one that came with the car. All they can do is order the same spec and replace it more often then normal and 'hope' they are within the spec's when tested.The teams are now being required to put displacement balls in the tank and verify capacity themselves, because there is a disparity between all of the bladders.FYI, all racing car fuel cells are manufactured slightly oversize. Because of the nature of the material used, it is impossible to make them to a specific capacity.Using displacement blocks or balls to bring a fuel cell to the legal limit is a correct and proper way to achieve that goal.This is nothing new or out of the ordinary.If you look at any fuel cell manufacturers website (ATL, Fuel Safe, etc) you will see that they sell displacement balls and blocks for this very reason.Nothing shoddy or defective about it!

[bugeyedgomer]

So it is new for indycar this year. I'm trying to recall when it was an issue previously.

[dataman1]

So it is new for indycar this year. I'm trying to recall when it was an issue previously.

Negative. This practice has been in open wheel racing for at least 25 years. Has it been an issue before? Yes, teams get caught exceeding the fuel tank capacity. There are procedures in place for them to check their capacity at every track. Some choose to check it frequently while others do not. Shame on the team that gets caught post race.

[bugeyedgomer]

More grumbling from the team owners

Bernard, in a telephone interview with The Republic on Thursday, said he wants to add to the Izod series' current 15-race schedule but admitted team owners are concerned about the additional operating costs given the economy and challenging sponsorship environment.

Read more: IndyCar race at Phoenix International Raceway doubtful in 2013 (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/speed/articles/20120719indycar-race-phoenix-international-raceway-doubtful-2013.html#ixzz21kYvI9cO)


IMS should cut them loose and let them see what it's like without the support they are given

[garyshell]

More grumbling from the team owners


IMS should cut them loose and let them see what it's like without the support they are given

That sounds like a "cut off your nose to spite your face" kind of move to me.

Gary

[bugeyedgomer]

it worked for over 80 years

[garyshell]

it worked for over 80 years

And you honestly believe that what worked then would fly now? If so, I think you're dreamin'. What you are suggesting would be the death knell for the sport. The economies of racing are very different now. We don't see folks lining up to run additional cars. Cut off a revenue stream for the teams like that and where will you get enough cars to fill a field?

Gary

[bugeyedgomer]

Indy is all that matters. You don't think you could get 33 entrants?

[garyshell]

Indy is all that matters. You don't think you could get 33 entrants?

Oh, that's just priceless. If there was not a full season to run, no you wouldn't get 33 entrants. The days of cheap one off teams are long since gone. The costs to field a single car at Indy have to be amortized over more than just one race. And like I said, if you cut off the revenue stream you seem to want to eliminate, several eams would fold. We barely got 33 cars this past year.

Gary

[bugeyedgomer]

IMS doesn't need to be bothered with the grumpy owners. All it has to do to hold a successful Indy 500 is announce the date, sell the tickets and open the gates.
If the owners want to gripe and complain, let them do it amonst themselves on their own dime. Until then, they should just shut up and show up. Or go to NASCAR, which is a lot more flexible and open to owners complaints.

[garyshell]

IMS doesn't need to be bothered with the grumpy owners. All it has to do to hold a successful Indy 500 is announce the date, sell the tickets and open the gates.
If the owners want to gripe and complain, let them do it amonst themselves on their own dime. Until then, they should just shut up and show up. Or go to NASCAR, which is a lot more flexible and open to owners complaints.


Check the calendar. The year is 2012, not 1952, 1962, 1972 or even 1982. IMHO, your scenario would result in the demise of the sport and with it the 500. There is no way that race could stand on its own given the economics of open wheel racing in this time.

Gary

[FIAT1]

More grumbling from the team owners


IMS should cut them loose and let them see what it's like without the support they are given

Why not. as long as they bring flying dentist back and Jack Arute to tell us how good this is, I'm for it.

[FIAT1]

Indy is all that matters. You don't think you could get 33 entrants?

With all do respect I just think ,nuts!

[Chris R]

The days of "schedule it and they will come" are over.... Everyone needs to work together.... That being said - it seems like the team owners need to get over some things.....

I would say this is also an example of the weakness of "socialized" sports - the series has set so many parameters at this point that there is not alot of flexibility to innovate either the racing equipment or the business model.....

[SarahFan]

I'm with the owners ...

The HG wanted control of the sport and they got it...

Now they have no F'en idea what to do with

[anthonyvop]

That sounds like a "cut off your nose to spite your face" kind of move to me.

Gary

I ahve to agree with bugeyedgomer on this one.

They have created an entitlement team owner class. Of course they don't want more races. Of course They don't want new aero packages. Why should day if they are doing ok with all the subsidies they receive and enough sponsorship to cover 15-16 races but not 20.

Isn't anyone curious how Sarah Fisher an keep on going all this time with little or no sponsorship?

I have said it for years. Open up the rules. I would prefer a series with 12-16 well-funded/Well-run cars than a series of 26 cars where half of the field has no chance and add nothing to the series besides a bigger grid.

[anthonyvop]

With all do respect I just think ,nuts!


If there was no series built around the Indy 500 and they kept the same rules they would be lucky to get 20 cars to attempt qualifying.

[FIAT1]

If there was no series built around the Indy 500 and they kept the same rules they would be lucky to get 20 cars to attempt qualifying.

My apologies for not seen the same tree that a wise man sees.

[bugeyedgomer]

if they offered even half of the money they spend keeping the owners together as prize money for the 500, you'd get tons of interest

[garyshell]

If there was no series built around the Indy 500 and they kept the same rules they would be lucky to get 20 cars to attempt qualifying.

That is exactly what I was driving at. Back in the "good ol' days", a small operation could afford to put together a "JC Aga-mom-n-pop Special" one off vehicle and run just the 500. Those days are long gone.

Gary

[garyshell]

if they offered even half of the money they spend keeping the owners together as prize money for the 500, you'd get tons of interest

Tons of interest? Who is going to fund these cars, when only one is going to win this massive prize?

Gary

[bugeyedgomer]

When was the last time there was a winner take all

[anthonyvop]

Tons of interest? Who is going to fund these cars, when only one is going to win this massive prize?

Gary

Exactly.

Bare-bones to buy one car(No Spare), Parts, Tires, Fuel, team and all of the associate sundry and miscellaneous items such as food and lodging an one off attempt at the 500 probably would coast around $750K...And that would be just to attempt to qualify. Not to have an actual competitive car. I ride buyer maybe could be persuaded to pay around $200 still leaves over 1/2 a million.

[bugeyedgomer]

so nobody ever spent more than they took home in the history of the Indy 500, ever?

[SarahFan]

That is exactly what I was driving at. Back in the "good ol' days", a small operation could afford to put together a "JC Aga-mom-n-pop Special" one off vehicle and run just the 500. Those days are long gone.

Gary

The Mercedes pushrod PenskePC#% would sit on pole and likely dominate the race today

So pretty much any chassis/engine combo from the past 25 years would have a legitimate shot at making the race and being competitive

[anthonyvop]

so nobody ever spent more than they took home in the history of the Indy 500, ever?

No But many defray the costs by spending it over the course of the season. They also attract more potential sponsors that way. Does that don't cover their expenses tend to not return

[anthonyvop]

The Mercedes pushrod PenskePC#% would sit on pole and likely dominate the race today

So pretty much any chassis/engine combo from the past 25 years would have a legitimate shot at making the race and being competitive


And how many would pass the current safety regulations?

Now if you were to pull the regulations back 25 years the Penske push-rod M/B probably wouldn't even make the starting grid as technology has advanced so much that laps in the 250 MPH + range (and the ensuing chaos it would cause) would be easily attainable.

[bugeyedgomer]

R. Miller - Four or five owners looking to buy the series

reported it on Wind Tunnel, and he also says this is more than. "just a rumor."

[Jag_Warrior]

Hmm... Lord help us all. Just when I was beginning to see hope and find a reason to start following this series. Well, that's OK - I still have my F1.

[FIAT1]

Hmm... Lord help us all. Just when I was beginning to see hope and find a reason to start following this series. Well, that's OK - I still have my F1.

I fill the same , F1 , ALMS and 24 LMS left for me. Indycar is making extremely hard to be a fan as much passionate I'm about it. I'm thankful I was part of 80s and 90s best racing that was!!!

[Chris R]

Wait, so let me get this right. If this comes to be, everything that happened between 1996 and now might as well not occurred??? I cannot even begin to express how incredibly frustrating that would be.... I have got to agree with Jag and Fiat.....

[bugeyedgomer]

some people saw it that way 17 years ago,,,,before $700 million was spent to control the sport,,over $125 million since '08 on team support alone,,,before Indycar had to reduce its sanction fees,,,when the 500 was getting a 9+ Nielsen number,,,when there were more than 15 days in May,,, when rookie orientation happened the last week of April

[Jag_Warrior]

Wait, so let me get this right. If this comes to be, everything that happened between 1996 and now might as well not occurred??? I cannot even begin to express how incredibly frustrating that would be.... I have got to agree with Jag and Fiat.....

Did you ever watch Dallas years ago? Remember that one season that they completely wrote off as Pam's dream that Bobby was dead? I think that was how it played. Anyway, that entire season was a complete write-off. This sad drama would be the same thing, right? Maybe worse. At least they just ruined one season.

This collection of size 15 clown shoes can't rebuild the CART Humpty Dumpty. They killed it. It's dead! Them buying ANYTHING would simply lead to more confusion and foolishness. This is a hard, hard thing for me to say - let me let the food in my stomach settle a bit... but I would rather see Tony George be put back in charge, rather than these team owner clowns. At least then there would only be one moron screwing things up instead of four or five. And if Kalkhoven is one of the village idiots, go ahead and ban me now, Gary. I'd be obligated to go back to being like I used to be.

[Chris R]

Did you ever watch Dallas years ago? Remember that one season that they completely wrote off as Pam's dream that Bobby was dead? I think that was how it played. Anyway, that entire season was a complete write-off. This sad drama would be the same thing, right? Maybe worse. At least they just ruined one season.

This collection of size 15 clown shoes can't rebuild the CART Humpty Dumpty. They killed it. It's dead! Them buying ANYTHING would simply lead to more confusion and foolishness. This is a hard, hard thing for me to say - let me let the food in my stomach settle a bit... but I would rather see Tony George be put back in charge, rather than these team owner clowns. At least then there would only be one moron screwing things up instead of four or five. And if Kalkhoven is one of the village idiots, go ahead and ban me now, Gary. I'd be obligated to go back to being like I used to be.

too funny about the Dallas analogy. I can't say I disagree with your general thoughts - although both choices (TG vs. team owners) are pretty bad (kinda of like choosing what slow and painful way you wish to die....)