New here, never actually raced, but...

[pkeegs]

Hey everyone! I'm the new guy in town. So, a little bit about me, and why I'm here.

I've always loved cars, as long as I can remember. I'm the kind of guy who can name nearly any car's make and model by just the taillights, and who slept with toy cars in my bed instead of stuffed animals. I'm an avid racing gamer, and enjoy anything that gives me the feeling of being behind the wheel. I've wanted to drive professionally since I was little, and it's the only interest I have that's never flagged. In recent years--the past two, for the most part--I've taught myself to drive, and to handle a car in a way that many would expect to be near impossible, if not fully so. More precisely, I've taught myself to drive insane roads at insane speeds in Honda Accords; not the sportiest of cars, but sufficiently quick and maneuverable enough that I can keep up with a WRX STI on curvy, crumbling asphalt roads through the woods. I've also met the Governor of Speed in the car I currently drive, a 2007 Accord. He resides at 130 miles per hour. So I know I'm not slow, and I know how to push a car to the brink of its handling; how to feel the front tires through the wheel and all four through the seat of my pants; how to recognize when either the front or back of the car is slipping and correct for it (though I wouldn't be able to put any of these feelings or actions into words. Cars are all instinct for me); how to run a car until its brakes are red-hot, literally, without crashing into guardrails. I have the perfect skill-set for racing, along with the right mindset. I'm sorry about the shameless plugging--not so shameless, really, I'm terribly sorry for it. But it's all driving towards my point.

Along with all that, I have certain neurological, psychological, and developmental issues that make traditional schooling nigh on impossible for me to complete. I often don't learn well in a classroom setting, and my ADHD, along with executive dysfunction, make doing homework a task to dwarf the building of the Colosseum. So racing, besides being my passion, is one of my very few opportunities to have a successful career in a field that pays well when done well. The only problem with this is that my family doesn't have the financial wherewithal to bring this low-hanging, delicious bud on the tree of my life to fruition. I can't even afford a kart at this point. So I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions, either regarding how to get myself into racing with essentially no money, or careers linked to racing that could hold my interest. I'm much obliged to anyone who suffered through all this insufferable blabbing, and will be more so to anyone who has any advice in this matter, whether or not it's viable for me.

Thanks for reading! Expect to see me around here a bit from now on, though I'll probably mostly be a spectator.

(Side note: Does anyone else agree that the 2012 Alfa Disco Volante concept is quite possibly the most beautiful car ever created?)

-Keegs

[Koz]

...I've taught myself to drive, and to handle a car in a way that many would expect to be near impossible, if not fully so. More precisely, I've taught myself to drive insane roads at insane speeds in Honda Accords; not the sportiest of cars, but sufficiently quick and maneuverable enough that I can keep up with a WRX STI on curvy, crumbling asphalt roads through the woods. I've also met the Governor of Speed in the car I currently drive, a 2007 Accord. He resides at 130 miles per hour. So I know I'm not slow, and I know how to push a car to the brink of its handling; how to feel the front tires through the wheel and all four through the seat of my pants; how to recognize when either the front or back of the car is slipping and correct for it (though I wouldn't be able to put any of these feelings or actions into words. Cars are all instinct for me); how to run a car until its brakes are red-hot, literally, without crashing into guardrails. I have the perfect skill-set for racing, along with the right mindset. I'm sorry about the shameless plugging--not so shameless, really, I'm terribly sorry for it. But it's all driving towards my point.

Along with all that, I have certain neurological, psychological, and developmental issues that make traditional schooling nigh on impossible for me to complete. I often don't learn well in a classroom setting, and my ADHD, along with executive dysfunction, make doing homework a task to dwarf the building of the Colosseum.

Mate, get off the road before you kill someone.

[Mark]

Mate, get off the road before you kill someone.

Indeed. Go rallying instead. From that description you are far more suited to rally driving than racing.

[pkeegs]

Mate, get off the road before you kill someone.

You're right, I shouldn't drive like that on the roads. In my defense--as much as it doesn't matter--I drive on largely unused roads, in the middle of the night, away from houses, cars, and pedestrians. If I kill anyone, it will be me. But even that isn't to say that I should drive like that. I understand that there's always a chance something could go wrong, and I've been working, with a significant amount of success, on cutting down the insanity in my driving.


Indeed. Go rallying instead. From that description you are far more suited to rally driving than racing.

A fair assumption, and I would like to end up, ultimately, as a rally driver. But I see tracks in ways most people don't. I use slightly different turn lines, slightly different tactics... everything about the way I drive is different from anyone else I've ever met, and it generally works. I don't have the means to go rallying, either. I would if I could, but I can't. I can't afford my own car, and my parents sure as hell won't let me take my dad's or grandmother's car rallying. I'd also need money for tires, fuel, etc., and I just don't have that.

Also, on an unrelated topic, I'm sorry if I'm coming across a little... douchey might be the word for it. It's more of an internet persona than anything; I'll need to settle in before I start being me. I definitely don't want to start off on the wrong foot.

[Mark]

In general racing is considerably more expensive than rallying. What makes you think racing would be easier to get into?

Besides any way you are talking a lot of cash.

Perhaps you should try some track days first to see if you are as quick as you reckon.

It's also good to see that you want to channel it in the right way. Out of the way or the middle of the night or whatever, keep it calm on the public roads. You might meet me coming home from work.

[pkeegs]

In general racing is considerably more expensive than rallying. What makes you think racing would be easier to get into?

Besides any way you are talking a lot of cash.

Perhaps you should try some track days first to see if you are as quick as you reckon.

It's also good to see that you want to channel it in the right way. Out of the way or the middle of the night or whatever, keep it calm on the public roads. You might meet me coming home from work.

I get the impression that a decent karting setup is cheaper than a decent rallying setup, so I've been figuring that if I can get myself a kart, helmet, suit, gloves, boots, etc., I can demonstrate my ability and possibly get sponsorship.

Trying a few track days makes sense, though... do you know if there are any good tracks near NYC with loaner/renter karts and equipment?

And yeah, I don't think it's fair of me to risk other persons' welfare in the interests of going fast.

Thank you for being so responsive, by the way, I appreciate it.

[airshifter]

But karts also take support equipment as well as the kart itself... you aren't driving it to the track are you?

Probably the cheapest thing to get into racing with is a street car that you can Autocross. The various classes are set up so that quite a few cheap cars have a very good chance of doing well. Drivers skill is very important, and if you find a class that allows very cheap cars that is also a plus.

At the end of the day think you are fast and knowing you are fast are two different things. Until you get to a track and compete against similar cars you really don't know.

[janvanvurpa]

You have near perfect skills----you wanna go "racing" but you don't have any money..

Go back and choose some richer parents and have them buy you nice karts till you're 16 then buy you a seat in some "team"...

That is how it's done...

There are two things that everyman and boy thinks he's better than average at.
Driving is the other one..

I assure you, you aren't probably even average at either. Guys that are good are analytical (and often not too bright---I speak from personal experience--I did full time professional motorsports for 2 sorta seasons--both shortened with injuries. Injuries which even 35 years later have led to 4 serious operations in the last 4 years and another scheduled) and they must be , even to be just a mid pack guy, realistic at analyzing situations.

You stated there's no money yet you dream...I am all for dreaming....my guiding quote was from a noted Englishman who said "The crime is not in failing, but in setting low aims". (Bonus points for knowing the speaker)

But car racing even amateur local yeee haw dirt track ovals requires money.

My motorsports I knew i could afford with just a steady middle working class income...and i was lucky to talk to a bunch of the guys referenced in this "How Good is your Geographic?" thread somewhere around here.....a whole gang of World Champions in a relaxed non track party.. I asked them "What should i do if i want to do what you are doing, drive full time all round the world"

The answer was "Give yourself 10 years serious training"..
It took 11...then 2 seasons and I was flat worn out...
Me "How long for serious condition?" "min 4 years if no serious injuries"
Never really had it---knees, knees knees arms knees.. I was Pro at taping knees for the different tears and detached ligaments...


In the end it was insanely hard work, way more fun to ratchet down and do clubbie events.

Anyway, go back and see if you can be born to the "Lucky Sperm Club", and then you can be like the guys we see on one side in US Presidential races :Born on Third base and they think they hit a home run"

[pkeegs]

But karts also take support equipment as well as the kart itself... you aren't driving it to the track are you?

Probably the cheapest thing to get into racing with is a street car that you can Autocross. The various classes are set up so that quite a few cheap cars have a very good chance of doing well. Drivers skill is very important, and if you find a class that allows very cheap cars that is also a plus.

At the end of the day think you are fast and knowing you are fast are two different things. Until you get to a track and compete against similar cars you really don't know.

Fair enough. I'm aware that karts also require extra equipment, which means more money. Thanks for the tip on Autocross, I'll probably end up pursuing that. And yeah, you're right, I don't actually know I'm fast in comparison to other racers. I have a strong feeling, based on what I know I can do in a cheap car in different circumstances than would occur in a race. I'll have to try and see what happens in the field, rather than racing on the streets.


You have near perfect skills----you wanna go "racing" but you don't have any money..

Go back and choose some richer parents and have them buy you nice karts till you're 16 then buy you a seat in some "team"...

That is how it's done...

There are two things that everyman and boy thinks he's better than average at.
Driving is the other one..

I assure you, you aren't probably even average at either. Guys that are good are analytical (and often not too bright---I speak from personal experience--I did full time professional motorsports for 2 sorta seasons--both shortened with injuries. Injuries which even 35 years later have led to 4 serious operations in the last 4 years and another scheduled) and they must be , even to be just a mid pack guy, realistic at analyzing situations.

You stated there's no money yet you dream...I am all for dreaming....my guiding quote was from a noted Englishman who said "The crime is not in failing, but in setting low aims". (Bonus points for knowing the speaker)

But car racing even amateur local yeee haw dirt track ovals requires money.

My motorsports I knew i could afford with just a steady middle working class income...and i was lucky to talk to a bunch of the guys referenced in this "How Good is your Geographic?" thread somewhere around here.....a whole gang of World Champions in a relaxed non track party.. I asked them "What should i do if i want to do what you are doing, drive full time all round the world"

The answer was "Give yourself 10 years serious training"..
It took 11...then 2 seasons and I was flat worn out...
Me "How long for serious condition?" "min 4 years if no serious injuries"
Never really had it---knees, knees knees arms knees.. I was Pro at taping knees for the different tears and detached ligaments...


In the end it was insanely hard work, way more fun to ratchet down and do clubbie events.

Anyway, go back and see if you can be born to the "Lucky Sperm Club", and then you can be like the guys we see on one side in US Presidential races :Born on Third base and they think they hit a home run"

Think you could have been a little more harsh? I know that I'm much better than the average lay driver, at the very, very least. My friends are the kind of people who own Golf GTIs, WRX STIs, plain old Imprezas, Eclipses and the like, and I've never, ever even come close to losing a race to them--bear in mind that I drive a 4-cylinder, 4-door 2007 Accord, and I'm going against those cars. And my friends are fantastic drivers. So I know I have some measure of skill. Training-wise, I'd say I have about three year's worth of experience, since I've had my license for about two and a half years now, and I had my learner's permit for a year beforehand. Controlling a car has never been a problem for me. I can buzz through gaps that most people wouldn't be willing to even try to ease through (static gaps between things like telephone poles and shopping carts, not gaps in traffic, I'm not that reckless). And I'm very analytical, for the most part. My situational awareness is ridiculous, due to my ADHD; nothing gets filtered out, ever. Being analytical is the very trait that led me to this forum. I know that many, if not all, of the doors to racing are closed to me at the moment, so I came here to gather knowledge and advice from people experienced in the industry. And keep in mind that I never said I have no money. I'm on a very tight budget, but I make around $500-$600 a month. So please, don't tell me to "go back and choose some richer parents". I'm here to learn, and maybe eventually contribute something useful; I'm certainly not here to be scoffed at.

Also, I invite you to sit in the passenger seat of my car and tell me I'm not a better than average driver. I promise I wouldn't wrap the car around a tree or anything. I'd just give you a ride better than you'd expect possible in that car.

[Mark]

I get the impression that a decent karting setup is cheaper than a decent rallying setup, so I've been figuring that if I can get myself a kart, helmet, suit, gloves, boots, etc., I can demonstrate my ability and possibly get sponsorship.

Trying a few track days makes sense, though... do you know if there are any good tracks near NYC with loaner/renter karts and equipment?

And yeah, I don't think it's fair of me to risk other persons' welfare in the interests of going fast.

Thank you for being so responsive, by the way, I appreciate it.

All kart tracks will loan you a kart.

But that's not what I mean. I mean a track day, where you take your own road car and drive it around the track as fast as you like.

I'd assumed you were in the UK they are very common here. For USA, no idea.

[Mark]

Fair enough. I'm aware that karts also require extra equipment, which means more money. Thanks for the tip on Autocross, I'll probably end up pursuing that. And yeah, you're right, I don't actually know I'm fast in comparison to other racers. I have a strong feeling, based on what I know I can do in a cheap car in different circumstances than would occur in a race. I'll have to try and see what happens in the field, rather than racing on the streets.



Think you could have been a little more harsh? I know that I'm much better than the average lay driver, at the very, very least. My friends are the kind of people who own Golf GTIs, WRX STIs, plain old Imprezas, Eclipses and the like, and I've never, ever even come close to losing a race to them--bear in mind that I drive a 4-cylinder, 4-door 2007 Accord, and I'm going against those cars. And my friends are fantastic drivers. So I know I have some measure of skill. Training-wise, I'd say I have about three year's worth of experience, since I've had my license for about two and a half years now, and I had my learner's permit for a year beforehand. Controlling a car has never been a problem for me. I can buzz through gaps that most people wouldn't be willing to even try to ease through (static gaps between things like telephone poles and shopping carts, not gaps in traffic, I'm not that reckless). And I'm very analytical, for the most part. My situational awareness is ridiculous, due to my ADHD; nothing gets filtered out, ever. Being analytical is the very trait that led me to this forum. I know that many, if not all, of the doors to racing are closed to me at the moment, so I came here to gather knowledge and advice from people experienced in the industry. And keep in mind that I never said I have no money. I'm on a very tight budget, but I make around $500-$600 a month. So please, don't tell me to "go back and choose some richer parents". I'm here to learn, and maybe eventually contribute something useful; I'm certainly not here to be scoffed at.

Also, I invite you to sit in the passenger seat of my car and tell me I'm not a better than average driver. I promise I wouldn't wrap the car around a tree or anything. I'd just give you a ride better than you'd expect possible in that car.

You cannot possibly know that until you get to the likes of a track day or karting event and give it a go.

Personally, I can drive faster than most people on the road are going if I feel like it. Does that make me a good racing driver? No, I'd suck!

So you'll have to spend some money, no choice.

[Zico]

Hi and welcome to the forum, as Mark says above.. the public roads/non competition drivers are not really worthy of comparing yourself against.. not only that you could end up killing innocent people in the process so please only compete in a safe environment.

You dont really have an idea how quick you are or could be until you start racing at club level among similar minded people. I used to often win any indoor karting events I attended and a good few years ago was also was one of the top 3 Toca 3 DTM Sim mode racers online.. and had some fantastic battles.. does that make me an exceptional driver? No, far from it.. I'm just among the quickest from a relatively small slice of the population. A few years ago I tried my hand at a club level karting race with a kart I borrowed but I started getting lapped half way through the race and actually felt that finishing third from last was a great effort.. lol so if you do try karting dont be downhearted when you get blown into the weeds.. these guys are usually looking for tenths even hundredths at corners while you are often left simply learning the lines and trying to piece them all together before even beginning to think about tinkering with the set-up.

If like me you dont have much of a disposable budget why not get/build yourself a decent PC with a triple monitor set-up, a sim wheel with force feedback such as a Fanatec CSR with some V1 Clubsport pedals which actually feature a loadcell for measuring brake pressure unlike other pedal sets which usually only have a potentiometer for measuring pedal distance travelled. Then try your hand at RSRBR12 (A Richard Burns Rally mod) or one of the various PC racing sims on the market ie, RFactor iracing etc. In the long run It will cost you a fraction of the cost of karting, it will be a lot of fun and very rewarding as you continue to improve with experience.. and if you are as good as you think you are you will soon start winning races. ;)

Here is a vid of rFactor2 beta '68 F1 Monaco sim.. no aero.. and my idea of proper fun! ;) race sim cockpit 20120126 rFactor2 beta '68 F1 Monaco - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS4K-GpkLAM&feature=related)
Should give you an idea of the possibilities..

:)

[Dave B]

In recent years--the past two, for the most part--I've taught myself to drive, and to handle a car in a way that many would expect to be near impossible, if not fully so. More precisely, I've taught myself to drive insane roads at insane speeds in Honda Accords; not the sportiest of cars, but sufficiently quick and maneuverable enough that I can keep up with a WRX STI on curvy, crumbling asphalt roads through the woods. I've also met the Governor of Speed in the car I currently drive, a 2007 Accord. He resides at 130 miles per hour. So I know I'm not slow, and I know how to push a car to the brink of its handling; how to feel the front tires through the wheel and all four through the seat of my pants; how to recognize when either the front or back of the car is slipping and correct for it (though I wouldn't be able to put any of these feelings or actions into words. Cars are all instinct for me); how to run a car until its brakes are red-hot, literally, without crashing into guardrails. I have the perfect skill-set for racing, along with the right mindset. I'm sorry about the shameless plugging--not so shameless, really, I'm terribly sorry for it. But it's all driving towards my point.
I've got a friend who works as an intensive care nurse. She's met loads of people like you.

[pkeegs]

You cannot possibly know that until you get to the likes of a track day or karting event and give it a go.

Personally, I can drive faster than most people on the road are going if I feel like it. Does that make me a good racing driver? No, I'd suck!

So you'll have to spend some money, no choice.

I know I can't know how I'll fare in actual, legitimate competition until I go and do it; I said that myself in the my response to airshifter. And track days aren't really that common around here, though I know they have them in California and the Midwest. I know I'll have to spend money, but I
m trying to figure out how to spend the smallest amount possible.


Hi and welcome to the forum, as Mark says above.. the public roads/non competition drivers are not really worthy of comparing yourself against.. not only that you could end up killing innocent people in the process so please only compete in a safe environment.

You dont really have an idea how quick you are or could be until you start racing at club level among similar minded people. I used to often win any indoor karting events I attended and a good few years ago was also was one of the top 3 Toca 3 DTM Sim mode racers online.. and had some fantastic battles.. does that make me an exceptional driver? No, far from it.. I'm just among the quickest from a relatively small slice of the population. A few years ago I tried my hand at a club level karting race with a kart I borrowed but I started getting lapped half way through the race and actually felt that finishing third from last was a great effort.. lol so if you do try karting dont be downhearted when you get blown into the weeds.. these guys are usually looking for tenths even hundredths at corners while you are often left simply learning the lines and trying to piece them all together before even beginning to think about tinkering with the set-up.

If like me you dont have much of a disposable budget why not get/build yourself a decent PC with a triple monitor set-up, a sim wheel with force feedback such as a Fanatec CSR with some V1 Clubsport pedals which actually feature a loadcell for measuring brake pressure unlike other pedal sets which usually only have a potentiometer for measuring pedal distance travelled. Then try your hand at RSRBR12 (A Richard Burns Rally mod) or one of the various PC racing sims on the market ie, RFactor iracing etc. In the long run It will cost you a fraction of the cost of karting, it will be a lot of fun and very rewarding as you continue to improve with experience.. and if you are as good as you think you are you will soon start winning races. ;)

Here is a vid of rFactor2 beta '68 F1 Monaco sim.. no aero.. and my idea of proper fun! ;) race sim cockpit 20120126 rFactor2 beta '68 F1 Monaco - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS4K-GpkLAM&feature=related)
Should give you an idea of the possibilities..

:)

Thanks for the welcome :) I've thought about sims, but I don't think I could stand that being my only racing experience, as much as I wish I could. It's nice to watch things go fast, but for me, driving is alllll about the feel, and even with a great force-feedback wheel, realistic-feeling and -acting pedals, and a realistic gearshift, that's impossible for a game to replicate. In regards to comparing myself against other drivers, I do that, but to a lesser extent than against myself. I don't drive like that on the open roads anymore, thankfully, but when I did, I got to the point where I myself was shaving hundredths off of my time around my neighborhood, which is a huge former retirement community arranged in a loop. I didn't have anything to compare those to, but I learned how to enter and leave different styles of turns, on different inclines, with different banking, in different conditions, etc. to reliably get around the "track", so to speak, at crazy speeds. I have a video somewhere that I took by placing my iPod against the windshield. If I find it, I'll post it here and to see what people think (with, of course, the disclaimer that I know I was being stupid and dangerous, and I don't engage in that type of behavior anymore). I also understand that learning one course doesn't necessarily translate easily to other courses, but certain rules of thumb (including that rules of thumb are unreliable at best in racing) can be distilled from even small amounts of experience. However, even if I'm the slowest person on the track, I'd rather deal with years of real racing without success than not race.

[pkeegs]

I've got a friend who works as an intensive care nurse. She's met loads of people like you.

Ha. Ha. Ha.
I've already said that I know driving like that has its risks, and I will say that if I had gotten into an accident, I would have deserved it. But it's not your place to tell me that. Especially not in the way you phrased it. You have no idea what I'm like. If you met me, you wouldn't believe I was pkeegs. You know what else I do in my free time? I play Scottish fiddle music and classical music on my violin; I sing; I read; I play with my dog; I try to get over my ex who dumped me out of nowhere after two years of dating, and who was the most important person in my life; I work in musical theatre, and definitely not for the money. You don't know me, don't go thinking you know what I'm like.

[Mark]

Your cheapest option will be to try some karting. Most places allow you to pay per lap.

[Zico]

You don't know me, don't go thinking you know what I'm like.

Maybe so, but to be fair to Dave.. that is how you come across in your initial post. ;)


With regards to your previous post that sims can not possibly come close to the real thing.. that is absolutely true but unless you do have a reasonable dissposable income its a pipe dream for a lot of us... and the next best thing is Sim racing.

[pkeegs]

Your cheapest option will be to try some karting. Most places allow you to pay per lap.

Thanks man, I appreciate the help.

That goes for everyone else who contributed to this thread in a positive manner.

[Dave B]

Ha. Ha. Ha.
Oh I'm not joking.


You have no idea what I'm like.
You've told me all I need to know: you think it's acceptable to race on public roads and put others at risk. You justify it, like hundreds exactly like you, by claiming that you're special, that you're somehow gifted. There are hospitals and graveyards filled with people just like you who don't think the rules apply to them, that they can somehow rise about the mediocrity. You think you're gifted: go to a track day or a kart circuit and test yourself in controlled conditions with appropriate safety measures. Who knows, you might be right and I've just exchanged posts with the next Senna or Loeb. But don't race on public roads and expect any respect whatsoever from me.

[janvanvurpa]

Oh I'm not joking.


You've told me all I need to know: you think it's acceptable to race on public roads and put others at risk. You justify it, like hundreds exactly like you, by claiming that you're special, that you're somehow gifted. There are hospitals and graveyards filled with people just like you who don't think the rules apply to them, that they can somehow rise about the mediocrity. You think you're gifted: go to a track day or a kart circuit and test yourself in controlled conditions with appropriate safety measures. Who knows, you might be right and I've just exchanged posts with the next Senna or Loeb. But don't race on public roads and expect any respect whatsoever from me.

Dave you mean old Pommie b*#!!?~~ don't you know we're all special, each unique like a snow flake, special among millions?
Well we are all special and unique, and the boy is special. He said so.

I agree he sounds similar, no, he sounds IDENTICAL, same phrases, same justifications , same assurances same whining as hundreds of other whiney boys to the point I wonder if he is real or a computer program written to wind up motorsport fans by dropping the known key words "I race my buddies on the back roads, I know I am exceptionally fast cause i beat my friend in a Wrecks" ---(of course the mere fact that your friend is stupid, and young and has been driving maybe 2 years and thus massively inexperienced escaped your notice because you are young and stupid and inexperienced).

In fact I think the only thing worth any discussion is the eerie exact phrasing of the delusions...

Because he---and all those other boys saying they're unique---are delusional.
This kid at 18 1/2 max never having raced anything, how do they all come up with the mistaken impression that they "exceptional"?

I wonder if Emmerson Manfalplaldi knows that far and away the No1 cause of death for boys 14-26 years old by a long shot is motor vehicle accidents.....a huge portion of which are single car---and that every one of those geniuses thought they were exceptionally good. including every one of those geniuses who killed 1-3 of their stupid friends who foolishly got in a car with them.

So the only interesting thing is :How do so many young guys become so convinced--with a total lack of any awareness or experience---that they have exception talents?

[Mark]

But.. Doesn't matter what you say. You can't convince them or the OP they aren't gods gift.

I do hope he does try out his karting skills.

[D-Type]

pkeegs, you say you can't afford to go racing. what job or jobs do you have? There are many examples of drivers who have worked in unpleasant out of theway places like oil rigs, Alaska or Australian mines for nine months of the year to fund three months' racing. There are many examples of garage mechanics who have gone racing - being mechanics the costs of preparation and repairs have been lower than for you and me.
I don't wish to sound brutal, but from what you have written it doesn't sound as if you are hungry enough (or should I say sufficiently committed) to succeed.

Good luck if you do make the effort.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

In the UK we have Club100 Karting for advanced karters without a budget.

I was in a 40 minute kart race at Teesside on Friday. I got pole, fastest lap and the win by 20 seconds, and was faster than the course instructor. Whilst that was good for my ego I know I'm a slug against decent drivers. Normally I race against my friend who grew up karting against the likes of Oliver Turvey, Alexander Sims and Frank Wrathall, and whilst I can keep pace against him in a pro-kart, in a proper 125 kart I can't get within 0.5 of a second of him over a 50 second lap.

Moral of the story? You might feel like a driving god because you can get the tyres to squeal on your street. But there are thousands of people in the same boat of being quick but no budget.

[Mark]

Remember that it's not a matter of winning a few kart races then you'll get sponsored. There is only real money to be made, as in breaking even, at the very top flight and you have to pay your way there.

[pkeegs]

Maybe so, but to be fair to Dave.. that is how you come across in your initial post. ;)


With regards to your previous post that sims can not possibly come close to the real thing.. that is absolutely true but unless you do have a reasonable dissposable income its a pipe dream for a lot of us... and the next best thing is Sim racing.

Yeah, I guess you're right on all counts, haha. In regards to the way Dave responded, I can understand having those thoughts, but I don't deserve the way he's treating me. And pertaining to sims, yeah, I may need to just use them. =/ Oh well, better than nothing.



Oh I'm not joking.


You've told me all I need to know: you think it's acceptable to race on public roads and put others at risk. You justify it, like hundreds exactly like you, by claiming that you're special, that you're somehow gifted. There are hospitals and graveyards filled with people just like you who don't think the rules apply to them, that they can somehow rise about the mediocrity. You think you're gifted: go to a track day or a kart circuit and test yourself in controlled conditions with appropriate safety measures. Who knows, you might be right and I've just exchanged posts with the next Senna or Loeb. But don't race on public roads and expect any respect whatsoever from me.

I know you're not joking. The laugh was a response to the sardonic tone of your post.

I don't think it's acceptable, I've said that at LEAST once in this thread. I understand that I had regularly been putting myself and, far worse, others at risk. Which is why, if you read further down, you will see that I'm all about not driving like that on public roads. I've been cutting that driving out whenever possible. It's more of an compulsion than anything else, and I mean compulsion in the strictest psychological sense; I sometimes feel irresistibly compelled to engage in that behavior. I've been forcing myself to think of the possible consequences, and it's worked to a fair extent. I've been driving more slowly, more sanely in general. I have had a few cases of pedal-to-the-metal madness, but I cut myself short in all of them, not to mention the fact that I only ever drive like that at night which would, if you knew my town, make it much less appalling. That's still not to say that it's at all okay. It's not. But don't judge me as a person based on stupid decisions I've made in the past.
If you don't have anything constructive to say, please leave.



Dave you mean old Pommie b*#!!?~~ don't you know we're all special, each unique like a snow flake, special among millions?
Well we are all special and unique, and the boy is special. He said so.

I agree he sounds similar, no, he sounds IDENTICAL, same phrases, same justifications , same assurances same whining as hundreds of other whiney boys to the point I wonder if he is real or a computer program written to wind up motorsport fans by dropping the known key words "I race my buddies on the back roads, I know I am exceptionally fast cause i beat my friend in a Wrecks" ---(of course the mere fact that your friend is stupid, and young and has been driving maybe 2 years and thus massively inexperienced escaped your notice because you are young and stupid and inexperienced).

In fact I think the only thing worth any discussion is the eerie exact phrasing of the delusions...

Because he---and all those other boys saying they're unique---are delusional.
This kid at 18 1/2 max never having raced anything, how do they all come up with the mistaken impression that they "exceptional"?

I wonder if Emmerson Manfalplaldi knows that far and away the No1 cause of death for boys 14-26 years old by a long shot is motor vehicle accidents.....a huge portion of which are single car---and that every one of those geniuses thought they were exceptionally good. including every one of those geniuses who killed 1-3 of their stupid friends who foolishly got in a car with them.

So the only interesting thing is :How do so many young guys become so convinced--with a total lack of any awareness or experience---that they have exception talents?

I never said I was "special" or "unique", and I didn't even come here to argue about my skill level. However, if you want proof that I'm different from others, you could use the fact that I have an IQ of 133--99th percentile on the dot--as measured by the WAIS-IV; you could use the fact that I won the first fiddle competition I entered and can learn essentially any fiddle tune in about five minutes by ear; you can use the fact that I got an 800 on the verbal section of the SATs; you can use the fact that I learned a whole year's worth of honors chemistry in eight one-hour tutoring sessions, leading me to get a 98% on the Regents test, and only because I messed up one word--my sketch for the one question I got wrong was perfect. So at the very least I'm not stupid (I know none of that pertains directly to my driving, but it all relates in some manner or another, I can explain if you need). There's also the fact that I've never been in an accident, with the exception of one unavoidable one; I was being tailgated, it was foggy, so the road had that sort of glaze on it. I slowed down, but the tailgater didn't brake quickly enough, so he was two inches off my butt. If I'd hit the brakes any more he would have hit me, and I slid off the slick road into a guardrail, despite the fact that at the time I was going ten below the speed limit, even with the restriction on my braking imposed by the fleeing a****** tailgater. I'm not saying I'm above the probabilities. I'm saying that I made the stupid, impulsive decision to not care. I'm aware I'm lucky I haven't paid a price for it.

By the way, my friends have all been driving far longer than I, and own cars that a ten-year-old should be able to be a Honda Accord in.

So get off your pedestal. You're being unnecessarily nasty. Yes, my introductory post made me sound like a dangerous douchebag, but I'm here for that reason. I know I can't drive like that on the roads. I know I don't know everything about racing. I know racing costs money, but I'm still hoping to find a form that I can afford. I'm here to try to find a way to channel my impulses and my passion in a way that's not dangerous to others, though it will still be just as dangerous to me if I'm as lacking in skill as you think I am. And you know what? I accept that.

All of your points could have been proven in a more polite manner. I find it ironic that you say I'm "18 1/2 max", when I'm 20 and acting more mature than you. Also, you compare me in a sarcastic remark to "those geniuses"... The difference between those people and I is that I actually do qualify as a genius. Furthermore, you put things in quotation marks that I never actually said. I'm completely positive I never used the word "buddies", and I never described myself as "exceptional". A paraphrase is not a quote.

To clarify to everyone on this thread, most of the point I was trying to prove in describing my skills as they are today was to demonstrate where I'm at in my development of the understanding of simply controlling a vehicle under duress, whether it be in a street race or in self-imposed time trials. I'll admit that I was also bragging a bit, as I find my experiences in that car amazing. What I was NOT attempting to say, however, by any means, is that I'm going to get on the track and immediately start winning races. I understand that there are things about racing I don't know, and things which need to be experienced on the track, wheel-to-wheel, to be learned. What I know is how to get my car to go exactly where I want it to go at speeds I know most non-racers wouldn't be able to handle it at. That description is to provide a benchmark of where I'm at in my unusual learning curve, to allow people to better consider my situation should they choose to contribute some advice or piece of wisdom. Should you disrespect me for my past indiscretions, please leave; if you don't respect someone, there's no point wasting your time on them anyway.

[pkeegs]

Remember that it's not a matter of winning a few kart races then you'll get sponsored. There is only real money to be made, as in breaking even, at the very top flight and you have to pay your way there.

Yeah, I know. My income situation isn't forever. I just figure that if I can get a jumpstart on my skills, then the journey will be that much shorter when I can actually pay my way to the higher levels.

[Koz]

YHowever, if you want proof that I'm different from others, you could use the fact that I have an IQ of 133--99th percentile on the dot--as measured by the WAIS-IV; you could use the fact that I won the first fiddle competition I entered and can learn essentially any fiddle tune in about five minutes by ear; you can use the fact that I got an 800 on the verbal section of the SATs; you can use the fact that I learned a whole year's worth of honors chemistry in eight one-hour tutoring sessions, leading me to get a 98% on the Regents test, and only because I messed up one word--my sketch for the one question I got wrong was perfect. So at the very least I'm not stupid (I know none of that pertains directly to my driving, but it all relates in some manner or another, I can explain if you need). There's also the fact that I've never been in an accident, with the exception of one unavoidable one; I was being tailgated, it was foggy, so the road had that sort of glaze on it.
...
I find it ironic that you say I'm "18 1/2 max", when I'm 20 and acting more mature than you. Also, you compare me in a sarcastic remark to "those geniuses"... The difference between those people and I is that I actually do qualify as a genius. Furthermore, you put things in quotation marks that I never actually said. I'm completely positive I never used the word "buddies", and I never described myself as "exceptional". A paraphrase is not a quote.

Wow. I think, good sir, you really should seek professional mental help for your narcissism. You will not get anywhere in life talking to people in this way; or telling them how special you are - which is what you have been doing since your very first post.

[pkeegs]

But.. Doesn't matter what you say. You can't convince them or the OP they aren't gods gift.

I do hope he does try out his karting skills.

I'm sorry that's how I'm coming across. My self-esteem is actually quite low.

And I will. I need to at least know how I measure up to other racers, even if I can't actually go karting regularly.


pkeegs, you say you can't afford to go racing. what job or jobs do you have? There are many examples of drivers who have worked in unpleasant out of theway places like oil rigs, Alaska or Australian mines for nine months of the year to fund three months' racing. There are many examples of garage mechanics who have gone racing - being mechanics the costs of preparation and repairs have been lower than for you and me.
I don't wish to sound brutal, but from what you have written it doesn't sound as if you are hungry enough (or should I say sufficiently committed) to succeed.

Good luck if you do make the effort.

Sadly, the only job I have at the moment is on and off at a theatre. It doesn't pay much, and with the irregularity, I need to save as much as I can. I've been thinking of going to an automotive trade school though, thinking along the lines of less money spent on having work done on the car.
I may not be sufficiently committed, but I sure as hell am going to try as hard as I can tolerate before I give up, haha.

Thanks, I appreciate it.


There are a fair amount of track days available to you. Closest to you is probably New Jersey Motorsport Part near Millville. Other tracks host them too. Also, check out the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) website. That'll direct you to the local SCCA Region where more info will be available. You may want to think about joining. Autocrossing is another way to get some experience on the cheap. SCCA and other clubs host them all the time. Seat time in Karts is cheap and you should find a number within a reasonable distance.

Thanks, I'll take all that into account. I've checked out SCCA; the thing is, the only car I have access to is my grandmother's, and I'm not allowed to take it autocrossing. But I'll check out New Jersey Motorsports Park, I may be able to get there at some point on some other premise. And alright, I'll check around for some kart clubs near me.

Again, thanks.


In the UK we have Club100 Karting for advanced karters without a budget.

I was in a 40 minute kart race at Teesside on Friday. I got pole, fastest lap and the win by 20 seconds, and was faster than the course instructor. Whilst that was good for my ego I know I'm a slug against decent drivers. Normally I race against my friend who grew up karting against the likes of Oliver Turvey, Alexander Sims and Frank Wrathall, and whilst I can keep pace against him in a pro-kart, in a proper 125 kart I can't get within 0.5 of a second of him over a 50 second lap.

Moral of the story? You might feel like a driving god because you can get the tyres to squeal on your street. But there are thousands of people in the same boat of being quick but no budget.

Point taken.


Wow. I think, good sir, you really should seek professional mental help for your narcissism. You will not get anywhere in life talking to people in this way; or telling them how special you are - which is what you have been doing since your very first post.

I've said, more than once, that I'm aware that my first post was not a good introduction. However, the douchebaggery in my subsequent posts is how I respond to being talked down to. The way I'm talking to janvanvurpa is a direct result of the way he talks to me. Someone disrespects me, I disrespect them. And hell, if I get an opportunity to expound on my best traits while I'm doing it, I will. It's generally very effective at hitting people who act like that right where it hurts. (I realize it may seem like I'm assuming I know what he's like, which is one of the reasons I got pissed off in the first place, but I'm simply noting a trend. When I talk the way I was talking to people who talk the way he was talking, it generally has the effect I want it to.)

I know I'm no better than anyone else. I can even act like a totally awful person sometimes. I'm nearly mentally retarded in some respects, and I can't run further than 100 yards or so. I smoke, I sometimes drink to excess, I make rude jokes, and my bedroom is a pigsty. I can't skateboard, no matter how hard I try to learn. I'm slightly crazy, most of the time, and not always in an entertaining way. My memory is nil, I have a high temper, I can sometimes be irrational, and my hygiene is occasionally a bit iffy. And I could make this list longer. Hearkening to Mark's post at the top of page 2, I know I'm not God's gift to the world. But I'm not going to sit idly by while people throw insults at me.

[janvanvurpa]

Wow. I think, good sir, you really should seek professional mental help for your narcissism. You will not get anywhere in life talking to people in this way; or telling them how special you are - which is what you have been doing since your very first post.

Actually he sounds exactly like the majority of white middle of middle class and up boys, and virtually 100% of boys from higher income backgrounds. That's why i said to Dave its so interesting the sameness in every detail.
So if this kid needs mental help, so does nearly every other American--and many of our neighbors to the North as well, needs help.

I still don't think this is stuff is real. It's too cliched.. I think its a clever ploy by somebody with big humor.

[janvanvurpa]

If you are real PKeegs listen up and quyit your childish simpering and whining.
The way you first talked to the whole world was insulting to everybody.
It is especially insulting to anybody who raced ever
And extra insulting to somebody who made choices and compromised life and everything to race from 14 years to mid 40s---and still prepares cars, builds custom race car parts and co-drives in rallies at fifty-fawkin-nine.
You insulted the whole world with your arrogance but worse you spat in every persons face with your stupid reckless antics on public roads.

Do you understand that YOUR WORDS were insulting? And your actions you reported contemptible?

You're a genius.?? Then why did you not figue the above out?
No, you passed a silly test at a desk, you are a sociopath showing outrageous indifference to the potential result of your actions.
Your words and actions are deplorable, and all we know of you is what you have written and how you wrote when you came here.

You receive treatment exactly has you treated others.
You brag about your contempt for everybody, and yet you sniffle and whine when you get back the same contempt.

I am not a douschbag.

I'm somebody with friends and acquaintances on the same roads that mental midgets with testicular maldevelopments endanger.

That is assuming you are real which I really don't believe.

[Mark]

Putting my admin hat on, your replies to Dave were unacceptable, please calm down the personal insults. You may feel you were yourself insulted, but you put yourself in a position for that to happen ;) . Nobody tells anyone to 'leave', except me ;)

[F1boat]

Why don't you try hillclimbing?

[donKey jote]

or treeclimbing even :andrea:

[pkeegs]

Actually he sounds exactly like the majority of white middle of middle class and up boys, and virtually 100% of boys from higher income backgrounds. That's why i said to Dave its so interesting the sameness in every detail.
So if this kid needs mental help, so does nearly every other American--and many of our neighbors to the North as well, needs help.

I still don't think this is stuff is real. It's too cliched.. I think its a clever ploy by somebody with big humor.


If you are real PKeegs listen up and quyit your childish simpering and whining.
The way you first talked to the whole world was insulting to everybody.
It is especially insulting to anybody who raced ever
And extra insulting to somebody who made choices and compromised life and everything to race from 14 years to mid 40s---and still prepares cars, builds custom race car parts and co-drives in rallies at fifty-fawkin-nine.
You insulted the whole world with your arrogance but worse you spat in every persons face with your stupid reckless antics on public roads.

Do you understand that YOUR WORDS were insulting? And your actions you reported contemptible?

You're a genius.?? Then why did you not figue the above out?
No, you passed a silly test at a desk, you are a sociopath showing outrageous indifference to the potential result of your actions.
Your words and actions are deplorable, and all we know of you is what you have written and how you wrote when you came here.

You receive treatment exactly has you treated others.
You brag about your contempt for everybody, and yet you sniffle and whine when you get back the same contempt.

I am not a douschbag.

I'm somebody with friends and acquaintances on the same roads that mental midgets with testicular maldevelopments endanger.

That is assuming you are real which I really don't believe.

I find it both infuriating and hilarious that you don't believe I'm real. I'll just assure you that if I were trolling, I'd come up with something better.

I've said, many times, that I know that my first post was obviously not a good way to introduce myself to this forum. But it also shouldn't be insulting to people. Maddening, maybe; terrifying, maybe; insulting? No.

I choose my words very carefully, even when I'm talking like somewhat of a douchebag; I'll go through my post, dissect it, and explain to you why you shouldn't be insulted, and why nearly everything you just said shows that you misread the meaning of my post. I will also point out where I made miscalculations in how my words would come through.


Hey everyone! I'm the new guy in town. So, a little bit about me, and why I'm here.

Well, nothing particularly objectionable so far. I tried to show my enthusiasm, and I think it came through okay. Moving on...


I've always loved cars, as long as I can remember. I'm the kind of guy who can name nearly any car's make and model by just the taillights, and who slept with toy cars in my bed instead of stuffed animals. I'm an avid racing gamer, and enjoy anything that gives me the feeling of being behind the wheel. I've wanted to drive professionally since I was little, and it's the only interest I have that's never flagged.

So far, all facts about myself. Nothing said about my driving yet, just plain and simple info. The bit about the taillights may have come through as a little... off, but that's there to show the level of interest I have in cars. Moving on...


In recent years--the past two, for the most part--I've taught myself to drive, and to handle a car in a way that many would expect to be near impossible, if not fully so. More precisely, I've taught myself to drive insane roads at insane speeds in Honda Accords; not the sportiest of cars, but sufficiently quick and maneuverable enough that I can keep up with a WRX STI on curvy, crumbling asphalt roads through the woods. I've also met the Governor of Speed in the car I currently drive, a 2007 Accord. He resides at 130 miles per hour. So I know I'm not slow, and I know how to push a car to the brink of its handling; how to feel the front tires through the wheel and all four through the seat of my pants; how to recognize when either the front or back of the car is slipping and correct for it (though I wouldn't be able to put any of these feelings or actions into words. Cars are all instinct for me); how to run a car until its brakes are red-hot, literally, without crashing into guardrails. I have the perfect skill-set for racing, along with the right mindset. I'm sorry about the shameless plugging--not so shameless, really, I'm terribly sorry for it. But it's all driving towards my point.

Here's where it really starts to get iffy; this is where I can understand people getting angry. The first sentence failed to distinguish between racers and non-racers; I am well aware that any decent race car driver could handle any car at speeds higher than I can. (Unless I'm as good as I hope I am. I can dream. But I know that the likelihood that I'm that good without real training is essentially nil.) When I say "many", I am referring to the general population, and I was careful to not even use the word "most", which still would have excluded race car drivers and any real car enthusiasts. I continue on by being more specific, stating what make and model of car I've done most of my driving in. In my statement about keeping up with a WRX, I failed to note that I'm very aware that any professional driver could kick my a** in that car--in fact, in any car that isn't a Scion iQ, a SmartCar, or an original 2CV. Regarding the speed governor, people have every right to be furious that I did that. It was reckless. I feel lucky that I didn't hurt anyone. However, I won't express apologetic feelings; I don't feel apologetic for a hypothetical situation, and I'm sure as hell not going to try that stunt again, so it's a moot point. Where I say "I know I'm not slow", I should have said something more along the lines of "I know I'm not incompetent". It would have gotten the meaning across better. My statement that I "can push a car to the brink of its handling" sounds a little pompous, yeah. Sometimes that's the way I come through, especially online. The rest of the sentence, up to the word "guardrails", is describing my current skill level as a driver in terms of admittedly reckless driving on the open road. It may be noted, however, that nowhere in this post do I say that I still do that. That omission is for a reason: I don't. I still drive too fast, but I'm getting slower every time I drive; the other day, I was voluntarily under the speed limit, and it was great.

The next sentence is one of the real kickers--I say I "have the perfect skill-set for racing, along with the right mindset." Which is true, but I should have made it extremely clear that though I was saying I have the perfect skill-set, I was by no means saying that that skill-set is anywhere near developed enough for racing. What that sentence means is that I have the basic abilities required for racing. It doesn't mean that I know how to really put them to use yet. The bit about my mindset is simply acknowledging that when I'm behind the wheel of a car, I always direct my attention accordingly.

Finally, the last two sentences there clearly state that I know that it sounds like plugging, but for me, it's not without shame. I knew I sounded arrogant, I felt bad for it, and I apologized. Additionally, I indicate that the information contained in the post up until that point was going towards the point of my post. At this point in the post, I would imagine most people would be angry at the driving that I had done and it seems like I do. Their anger would be understandable. But, having demonstrated that my own apparent arrogance in the post made me uncomfortable, I would expect people to understand its necessity in driving home the point and the question of the thread and move past it. Some people seem to have done that. Others have lashed out at me. To those who have attacked, I have not been especially pleasant, because I don't feel obliged to be. To those who have replied in a positive manner, I've been pleasant. Check the whole thread. My second post on the thread is a little douchey, yes, but it's not rude.

Moving on...

[pkeegs]

Along with all that, I have certain neurological, psychological, and developmental issues that make traditional schooling nigh on impossible for me to complete. I often don't learn well in a classroom setting, and my ADHD, along with executive dysfunction, make doing homework a task to dwarf the building of the Colosseum. So racing, besides being my passion, is one of my very few opportunities to have a successful career in a field that pays well when done well. The only problem with this is that my family doesn't have the financial wherewithal to bring this low-hanging, delicious bud on the tree of my life to fruition. I can't even afford a kart at this point. So I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions, either regarding how to get myself into racing with essentially no money, or careers linked to racing that could hold my interest. I'm much obliged to anyone who suffered through all this insufferable blabbing, and will be more so to anyone who has any advice in this matter, whether or not it's viable for me.

Thanks for reading! Expect to see me around here a bit from now on, though I'll probably mostly be a spectator.

(Side note: Does anyone else agree that the 2012 Alfa Disco Volante concept is quite possibly the most beautiful car ever created?)

-Keegs

So this whole last part of the post is, while sounding like a bunch of simple self-indulgent whining, talking about why I have little probability of being able to easily get into racing the conventional way--that is, the "pour-ridiculous-amounts-of-money-and-work-into-a-hobby-until-it-becomes-a-profession" way. It's there to explain that, besides being the single biggest interest of my whole entire life, racing is also one of the few career paths that I'd have a decent chance of succeeding in, save the money, due to a variety of factors; chief among those are mental illness and cognitive impairments in certain specific areas. If my words are just taken for the words they are--if no emotion is applied to them--the point will come across better.

I also explain that I know that there's a certain amount of money that's simply required, and that I would be grateful if anybody had suggestions on how to race on the lowest possible budget or on careers to go for that are related to racing, but may not be so expensive to achieve. Lastly, I thank everyone who actually read the post, and point out that even I know it was insufferable.

Nothing in that whole post says that I think I could, at the moment, even perform decently in a race, or that I could set up a car to run well on a certain track, or any of that. The tone of my post is, well, insufferable, as I've stated, but to be specific enough to convey the question I had in my head, that was how it had to be. In the course of the post, I apologized for that. In regards to my dangerous driving, I don't do that anymore, and that's because I realized how much danger I could be putting other people in, as well as myself, and how wrong that is. I don't have the right to endanger other persons' welfare for the sake of having fun. That led me to decide to try to channel my impulses into something constructive, like working toward a career. So I started learning more about racing, something I've wanted to do for a long time, and it led me here.

Meaning that the reasons I'm here are the very same reasons you have for being angry and offended. Thing is, you needn't be offended because I know I'm not a racer, and your anger could have been expressed in a more constructive way--something along the lines of, "you really shouldn't drive like that on public roads. It's highly dangerous to yourself and, worse, to others. You don't have any right to put other people at risk so you can have fun," would have worked beautifully. It's restrained and rational, yet the anger is clearly evident. Instead, however, you've resorted to attacking me, which you have no more right to do than I have to drive dangerously. So I haven't been very nice to you either, which is why you have such a bad impression of me. It's all a big mess. But whatever.

[pkeegs]

Putting my admin hat on, your replies to Dave were unacceptable, please calm down the personal insults. You may feel you were yourself insulted, but you put yourself in a position for that to happen ;) . Nobody tells anyone to 'leave', except me ;)

My apologies. I'll calm it down.

To anyone I inadvertently offended in my first post, I apologize.

To anyone who started attacking me, there's no need for that. There are more constructive, rational ways to express your contempt for my actions and words.

[Koz]

I know I'm no better than anyone else. I can even act like a totally awful person sometimes. I'm nearly mentally retarded in some respects, and I can't run further than 100 yards or so. I smoke, I sometimes drink to excess, I make rude jokes, and my bedroom is a pigsty. I can't skateboard, no matter how hard I try to learn. I'm slightly crazy, most of the time, and not always in an entertaining way. My memory is nil, I have a high temper, I can sometimes be irrational, and my hygiene is occasionally a bit iffy. And I could make this list longer. Hearkening to Mark's post at the top of page 2, I know I'm not God's gift to the world. But I'm not going to sit idly by while people throw insults at me.

Have you considered it a possibility that you have Asperger Syndrome?
And I don't mean to be offensive right now, in this post, and if you are being sincere (and not a troll) it seems like you do.

Have a look at Wrong Planet - Autism Community (http://www.wrongplanet.net/)

[Dave B]

So to boil it down, your main points are that you've never crashed (yet), you've got a high IQ, you have a compulsion, and you're not putting anybody else at risk.

Taking them in order: (a) oh, you will, eventually. I'm glad that you at least recognise that you've been lucky thus far.

(b) So what? Your IQ means less than nothing when you stick a tyre in a bit of spilt diesel in the middle of the night. Your IQ won't help you if an animal jumps out in front of you when you're doing 100mph. If someone pulls out of a side road into your path then it doesn't matter if you've got the combined brainpower of Newton Einstein and Hawkin.

Do you have any understanding of the forces that go through a car when pushed to the kind of performance you talk about, let alone a road car which doesn't have performance parts? Do you think that your high IQ will be of any use if your brakes decide not to work because they're overcooked? How will your IQ help you if one of your tyres grows bored of having a sidewall? There's a reason that competition cars have a buttload of safety gear.

(c) You're not addicted, you don't have any psychological reason for your behaviour, you're a boy barely out of your teens. I get that: you like speed, adrenaline and thrills just like millions of your peers. There's nothing wrong with that, but you need to find an outlet for your desires and not try hiding behind a pseudo-medical diagnosis. If you genuinely believe you have a form of addiction then go and see your doctor or a therapist.

(d) This is the biggy for me. You are putting others at risk no matter how deserted you may believe the road to be. You simply can not guarantee that you won't meet another road user, and they will not be prepared to meet you at crazy speeds. You have to assume that there's a moron round every corner, no matter how good you may believe your own driving to be.

Look, I'm sure you're a good kid who would genuinely enjoy a bit of competition motorsport; and like I said earlier who knows, you might actually be good at it. I think the reason some of us are giving you a hard time is that we've been involved in motorsport in one form or another. Me, I knew after about 5 kart races as a teenager that I was never going to get anywhere so I started writing about it. Others on here have competed, marshalled, organised or simply watched on as fans. We've all seen crashes at close quarters and I'll tell you something: it's never pleasant.

You simply can not assume that your skill will see you right. I've watched world champions crash. I've been on the other side of the Armco when drivers with years of experience and trophy cabinets the size of Belgium have been caught out, whether through their own mistakes or other peoples', or by mechanical failure, or an unexpected patch of oil. The reason they're all still around to tell the tale is that they drive cars built to the highest of safety standards, and fitted with internationally recognised safety kit. They drive them in an environment designed to minimise the risk of serious injury; and at venues attended by marshals who can be on the scene in seconds, backed up by medics and rescue teams. I know people who literally owe their lives to the intervention they received after a crash.

I'm not here to have a go at you, merely to encourage you to seriously consider the risks of your behaviour and to stop before you put yourself or others in harm's way. If you want to go racing or rallying then admittedly it's never cheap, but you can have a huge amount of fun on a very tight budget if you're sensible.

If you're even a fraction as good as you say you are then maybe you'll attract some sponsorship and be able to live your dream, but a good first step would be to make sure you live long enough to find out. :)

[MrJan]

Not read all the thread but you sound like a dick, and a dangerous one at that. Stop driving like a twat on the road and go to some sprints (I think the yanks call them autocross). If the US regs are anything like here in the UK then you can use pretty much any car and it'll show you how quick you really are up against other people (I guarantee that you are actually quite slow, driving quick on the track is completely different to going quick on the road). I did a hillclimb last week and there were single seat (F1 type) racers, saloon cars, Imprezas & Evos, spaceframe racers (Westfields and Caterham 7 type things, some with car engines, others with bike engines), a bloke in a FIAT 500 Arbarth and even a guy in a VW Lupo TDi. If you can't afford a car (one guy at a sprint I did had a £500 Kia Pride) then motorsport is the wrong hobby.

Interesting that you say you see the roads differently to everyone else and use different lines, what makes you think that you've tapped into a secret line different from the one that thousands of racing drivers have agreed on for decades?

[MrJan]

Incidentally you said that you self taught yourself to drive, which is pretty impressive, but do you drive stick? If the answer is 'no' then you'll really have to learn, you can't be a serious racing driver in an auto.

[Zico]

Pkeegs- Do you have a cousin/family member called Wayne?

Your style reminds me of someone with that name who used to post on here..

[Malbec]

So to boil it down, your main points are that you've never crashed (yet), you've got a high IQ, you have a compulsion, and you're not putting anybody else at risk.

Taking them in order: (a) oh, you will, eventually. I'm glad that you at least recognise that you've been lucky thus far.

(b) So what? Your IQ means less than nothing when you stick a tyre in a bit of spilt diesel in the middle of the night. Your IQ won't help you if an animal jumps out in front of you when you're doing 100mph. If someone pulls out of a side road into your path then it doesn't matter if you've got the combined brainpower of Newton Einstein and Hawkin.

Do you have any understanding of the forces that go through a car when pushed to the kind of performance you talk about, let alone a road car which doesn't have performance parts? Do you think that your high IQ will be of any use if your brakes decide not to work because they're overcooked? How will your IQ help you if one of your tyres grows bored of having a sidewall? There's a reason that competition cars have a buttload of safety gear.

(c) You're not addicted, you don't have any psychological reason for your behaviour, you're a boy barely out of your teens. I get that: you like speed, adrenaline and thrills just like millions of your peers. There's nothing wrong with that, but you need to find an outlet for your desires and not try hiding behind a pseudo-medical diagnosis. If you genuinely believe you have a form of addiction then go and see your doctor or a therapist.

(d) This is the biggy for me. You are putting others at risk no matter how deserted you may believe the road to be. You simply can not guarantee that you won't meet another road user, and they will not be prepared to meet you at crazy speeds. You have to assume that there's a moron round every corner, no matter how good you may believe your own driving to be.

Look, I'm sure you're a good kid who would genuinely enjoy a bit of competition motorsport; and like I said earlier who knows, you might actually be good at it. I think the reason some of us are giving you a hard time is that we've been involved in motorsport in one form or another. Me, I knew after about 5 kart races as a teenager that I was never going to get anywhere so I started writing about it. Others on here have competed, marshalled, organised or simply watched on as fans. We've all seen crashes at close quarters and I'll tell you something: it's never pleasant.

You simply can not assume that your skill will see you right. I've watched world champions crash. I've been on the other side of the Armco when drivers with years of experience and trophy cabinets the size of Belgium have been caught out, whether through their own mistakes or other peoples', or by mechanical failure, or an unexpected patch of oil. The reason they're all still around to tell the tale is that they drive cars built to the highest of safety standards, and fitted with internationally recognised safety kit. They drive them in an environment designed to minimise the risk of serious injury; and at venues attended by marshals who can be on the scene in seconds, backed up by medics and rescue teams. I know people who literally owe their lives to the intervention they received after a crash.

I'm not here to have a go at you, merely to encourage you to seriously consider the risks of your behaviour and to stop before you put yourself or others in harm's way. If you want to go racing or rallying then admittedly it's never cheap, but you can have a huge amount of fun on a very tight budget if you're sensible.

If you're even a fraction as good as you say you are then maybe you'll attract some sponsorship and be able to live your dream, but a good first step would be to make sure you live long enough to find out. :)

This.

To be fair to the kid though, he's asking for ways to get on track and off the roads so at least he's doing something to limit the danger to others. Thats a little more than the other second coming of Michael Schumacher 18 year olds are prepared to do.

Karting or autocross is probably the best way to start, except for turn up and drive karting events. Beating the local photocopier salesmen on their annual day out won't teach you anything about how good you are, you need to be up against people with previous racing experience.

[Garry Walker]

I shame more of us can't try and be fair. Some like to bash a new poster (after an admittedly poor first post) and then, when the new guy puts up an apology instead of just going away, they bash them some more. Nice welcome for new members guys and good work. :rolleyes:
Well, I am just about to reply to him :D

[Garry Walker]

Hey everyone! I'm the new guy in town. So, a little bit about me, and why I'm here.Hello.


Along with all that, I have certain neurological, psychological, and developmental issues that make traditional schooling nigh on impossible for me to complete. I often don't learn well in a classroom setting, and my ADHD, along with executive dysfunction,Executive dysfunction. Thank god I reread that :D


make doing homework a task to dwarf the building of the Colosseum. So racing, besides being my passion, is one of my very few opportunities to have a successful career in a field that pays well when done well. How many people atually get paid for racing? Not that many, most just spend loads of money on it without ever getting any success.



You cannot possibly know that until you get to the likes of a track day or karting event and give it a go.

Personally, I can drive faster than most people on the road are going if I feel like it. Does that make me a good racing driver? No, I'd suck!

So you'll have to spend some money, no choice.
Yeah, every boy racer thinks he has the talent to beat the likes of Loeb. The reality is that most of those boyracers are just average. In fact, I could probably beat him in a rally car, but unfortunately I know well enough that there are guys out there who would destroy me in rally and I am not talking about guys like Loeb.


I've got a friend who works as an intensive care nurse. She's met loads of people like you. hahaha


Yeah, I guess you're right on all counts, haha. In regards to the way Dave responded, I can understand having those thoughts, but I don't deserve the way he's treating me. And pertaining to sims, yeah, I may need to just use them. =/ Oh well, better than nothing. If you open with such a post, be prepared to get replies that are not praise.

But don't judge me as a person based on stupid decisions I've made in the past. You get one chance for life, you only have one life. Past mistakes will stay with you forever.



All of your points could have been proven in a more polite manner. I find it ironic that you say I'm "18 1/2 max", when I'm 20 and acting more mature than you.You are 20 and you want to get into racing? Far too late and that is a fact really. No matter if we are talking about go-karting or rallying.


Actually he sounds exactly like the majority of white middle of middle class and up boys, and virtually 100% of boys from higher income backgrounds. That's why i said to Dave its so interesting the sameness in every detail. Wow, a racist.

[Jag_Warrior]

You cannot possibly know that until you get to the likes of a track day or karting event and give it a go.

Personally, I can drive faster than most people on the road are going if I feel like it. Does that make me a good racing driver? No, I'd suck!

So you'll have to spend some money, no choice.


Thanks man, I appreciate the help.

That goes for everyone else who contributed to this thread in a positive manner.

Mark gave you the best advice possible. Until you get on a closed track, you can't know how good of a driver, or even racer you are.

While it's wrong, I'm not going to chastise you about driving like a bat out of hell on public roads... only because I did it myself at your age (and maybe when I was a bit older too :blackeye :) . I love cars. And I've been lucky enough to own some really fast cars. I'm also a great driver (just ask me, and I'll tell you so! ;) ). But you never know when you might meet some father of three on his way to work on that late night stretch of "empty" highway. You or he might drift into the other's lane and one or both of you wind up dead or disabled for life.

Maybe you're a faster, better driver than most... maybe not. But until you get yourself onto a closed circuit, you'll never really know. Plus, you can learn more once you take a class or two and get on track with other trained drivers. And here's a warning from another who thought that he knew more than he actually did: it's MUCH harder to unlearn bad habits than to learn good habits. So the sooner you take a few classes, the better off you'll be in the long run.

As for organizations, try NASA, (http://www.nasaproracing.com/) as well as the SCCA (http://www.scca.com/). IMO, NASA is the more cost effective, if not fun option, unless you really do have an eye (and the funding) toward becoming a pro racer.

Oh yeah... the Alfa Disco Volante - sorry, but the Series 1 Jaguar E-type is the most beautiful car ever made (IMO). To each his own, but while the new Volante has some interesting lines, it looks somewhat "confused" in its styling, to my eyes. It's not ugly, but not in the same beauty contest with the XKE... again, in my opinion.

Good luck to you though. And welcome to the board.

[Jag_Warrior]

I didn't mention NASA, though they are slightly cheaper, because their safety standards at the track are poor at best. If I ever have a high speed crash on track, I prefer to have competent people who will respond properly.

True. But I was thinking that if he's tight on money (which he says that he is), it would be better to join NASA, and at least be on a closed circuit, than race on the highway.

[airshifter]

A shame more of us can't try and be fair. Some like to bash a new poster (after an admittedly poor first post) and then, when the new guy puts up an apology instead of just going away, they bash them some more. Nice welcome for new members guys and good work. :rolleyes:

I was thinking the same. He even admitted openly that he sounded like a douche in his original post, and had openly admitted some of his actions weren't made using the most sound judgement. Cut the guy some slack and give some real advice, I'm sure most of us have done something stupid in our years driver, just many never admit it.

[schmenke]

...You are 20 and you want to get into racing? Far too late and that is a fact really.....

Yep.

Keegs my boy, it’s time to face reality. At 20 years old, you’re far passed the point of entry into a successful income-generating motorsport career. Admit defeat and resign yourself, like many others here, to a future life on a well-worn couch watching videos of a Stratos screaming through the hills of southern France, with a bag of Cheetos by your side and a can of Budweiser resting precariously, but with proficiency that comes with many weekends of practice, on your ever-expanding belly.
It’s not quite the adrenalin rush to which you’re currently accustomed, but it does grow to be an amenable way to spend a Sunday afternoon following of course the usual chores of mowing the lawn and mending the swing set in the backyard in an effort to alleviate the growing irritation from the missus of consuming copious amounts of Polysporin on the kids’ ubiquitous contusions caused by your dodgy erection of the playset to begin with.

Chin up keegs, hang up the keys to the Asian pocket-rocket with the fart can and trade in for the minivan! you’ve much to look forward to!

[Kneeslider]

I always wondered where Wade91 went...

If you are as great as you think you are, and your budget is tight, I could recommend motorcycle racing, specifically Forgotten Era, or the Classic Club we have in the UK, Im sure there will be an equivalent where you are.

Bikes like the old TZR250 still have competitive classes, and the bikes are available, numerous and cheap. By cheap, I mean that you could buy a good used one, and prepare it yourself for the track and still have change from £2k. Leathers, helmet etc is going to be another £1.5k. Entries to club race meetings will be from about £150 per meeting, depending on where it is, then you have travel to tracks, accommodation while you are there, fuel to get you from home to the tracks, tyres, servicing and other tinkering.

The trouble is, that even with a budget, racing is a way of life, paying for all this, and holding down a job to pay for it all is tough. Forget about relationships, or doing anything else. Add in to all this the fact that you are doing something which has a good chance of causing you significant injury, and you have to weigh up whether you are cut out to do it at all.

[pkeegs]

Wow... so, I've been replying to everyone individually until now, but there's no way I can reply to all this. Thanks so much for all the info and tips, guys, and for giving me a break on my bad start. I really, really appreciate it.

So I'll try to address as many of these replies as I can. Here goes...

Koz: Yeah, that possibility's been considered by my psychiatrists. I definitely have some Aspergian traits, and I have an uncle who has it. If I have it, it's mild; the reason it comes through so much is because of its combination with my bipolar disorder, which also interferes with the development and implementation of social skills. However, I'm rarely able to look anyone in the eye for more than a couple of seconds, so I'm pretty much positive that I have it, even though my 'rents disagree. In person, I've learned to either stare right next to the person's head, at their nose, or off into space with a look of deep contemplation, lol. The only "person" I can readily look into the eyes of is my dog, and weirdly enough, I'm the only person he locks eyes with also (except for strangers viewed as threats). Most would view that as being a challenge for dominance, but he listens to me more than he listens to anyone else in the family, and he always follows me around. It's almost like HE's autistic, if dogs can be so, ahah. I also get along very well with people who are diagnosed autistic, and they feel comfortable around me. So I believe you're correct.

Dave: (a) Thanks for acknowledging my acknowledging of my own good fortune... if that made any sense.
(b) The IQ thing was more specifically directed at John, as he seemed to be making (indirect) offhand remarks about my intelligence and, thus, my ability to comprehend the possible consequences of my own actions. He also used the word "exceptional" in a general sense to describe the way he perceived me as seeing myself, so I felt that it may be appropriate to go ahead and show that I do have some exceptional qualities, though they're few and far-between.
(c) I actually do have some psychological reasons for my behavior. I'm severely bipolar with psychotic features (luckily not in a violent fashion; the "psychotic features" label is due to my first manic episode, in which I hallucinated and was slightly delusional. I still managed to keep some sort of grip on reality, however, and got myself to the help I needed. I no longer have the hallucinations, nor do I have the delusions), and I also have moderate to severe ADHD. As I mentioned earlier, I also have a high potential for Asperger's/autism in general. So, psychologically, I'm not built for this world; at least not the way it is.
(d) Yeah, I know. That's one of the main reasons I want to get off the roads. I live in a town that's filled to the brim with old people, and they always go wide on their turns, sometimes to the point that they take half the opposite lane. Either that, or they cut in too much, again with the same result.
And as for the bit about everyone else having competed in motorsport--I understand your frustrations. Who knows, I might act hostile towards someone on a violinist forum saying that they could learn the violin quickly, had a knack for music, and wanted to be a professional. There's a certain value to newbies, in whatever fields, being challenged verbally/mentally by people established in those same fields. It filters out the people who will just clog up the system; the ones who don't really want to fully commit, but who will still sign up for things, requiring resources and time and effort to be put out for them with, essentially, a promise of no return at all.
Thank you for laying your thoughts out for me like that; it was extremely helpful.

MrJan: It's not that it's a "secret line"; I see other people drive it sometimes when I watch races. It works for them. The problem that I can foresee with it is that it's probably dangerous, and possibly not allowed as such--I'm talking about going into a corner at a higher speed than normal, and more towards the inside, slamming on the brakes perfectly at threshold, ending up with your front end right next to the left side of another racer's rear; when everyone's slowed down with just a little breathing room between actual speed and maximum cornering speed, you speed up to your max speed in that area, forcing yourself next to the other racer; they'll brake, then you'll pop out of the corner at a higher speed than the guy you just passed, giving you the opportunity to cut in front of him (or her) and hold your position. It's not all about acting like you have the biggest cojones, but it helps. Also, I've never driven a stick, but I've used a clutch system on some machine somewhere--I forget what it was. I understand how it's supposed to work and, to a certain degree, how it's supposed to feel. I'd probably stall my first time or driving a stick, but beyond that, I'd probably get the hang of it extremely quickly. I'm good at converting a feeling from the clutch lever or pedal in my hand or foot into a visual of how the flywheel is being engaged.

Zico: Nope... Just curious, should I be worried about these similarities?

Malbec: Thanks for the credit, though I'm not sure I should get any; I think it should be standard for even people like me to try to drive safely.
And yeah, I've decided to try karting; I'm going to contact LIKE (Long Island Karting Association) after posting this. It's in my plans to specifically make sure I'm not put against people who are there as a casual hobby or for an occasional jaunt. I want to either be on that track alone, getting seat time, or be on that track with seasoned racers, comparing my own skills, techniques, etc. to theirs.

Starter: I know you weren't talking to me, but yeah, that happens everywhere. It's a shame. I've caught myself doing it at least once. It's easy to get carried away on the Internet, when you have words to use but not faces to tell you when to STFU.
BTW, thanks for the support. I appreciate it.

Garry: Yay! Replies are awesome.
Hahahahaha, fair enough, I may phrase that differently, even though executive dysfunction is what it's called.
I knowww. I'm going to have to make myself into a, well, exceptional racer, then, though that word may be viewed as controversial in this thread.
I was prepared for somewhat peeved replies, but some people were just plain mean. Not even simply rude, but they seemed to actively be trying to make my day worse.
Yeah... I already have a few past mistakes that I'm not proud of, but once those mistakes have been made, the person's attitude about those mistakes should be taken into account when replying.
This is the first opportunity I've ever had to even possibly go into racing; my parents wouldn't let me when I was younger. So now that I have the potential to get in, I'm trying to do so.
In regards to the racism: I know, right? I would have pointed that out if John decided to return.

Jag: Yeah, I'll check out NASA. The problem that I've had, though, with entry level autocross, and other types of competition that require cars rather than karts, is that I don't have access to a car that I'm allowed to use for that purpose. So I'm stuck either with karting, or with buying a car (there's one I can get for $200, but I don't even have $200 right now) and figuring out a way to pay for insurance, normal daily driving, racing, and maybe even the occasional creature comfort/date.
As far as driving technique goes; this may sound pompous--in fact, it will, so I apologize--but in life in general, I've so far been very adept at creating my own effective techniques for things. I understand that in driving, that can be dangerous, but I will only allow it to be dangerous to myself. I will not drive in such a way that I lose control of the vehicle. I will cautiously test the limits of any vehicle that's new to me, so I know what it can handle and how it will react to my actions. The danger to me would come from bad positioning in the vehicle, an incorrect grip on the wheel, and the like. If necessary, I can also teach myself to drive differently while racing, but as it is now, I'm willing to accept the risks that may come from bad technique.
Regarding the cars, I would have agreed with you until I saw the Disco. Once I saw it, I was a convert. The original E-Type is the only car that rivals it in my mind.

Starter and Jag, regarding NASA safety: I'm with you guys on that one. I'd rather do SCCA, because, you know, I want to survive and everything, but I'd be willing to sacrifice some safety for racing (I mean, of course, but beyond the dangers of SCCA).

Airshifter: I think that's my main issue here--admitting things without being asked. I'm bad at knowing what to filter out in a conversation. And thanks for the support.

Shmenke: Maybe it's far beyond the typical age of outset, but hell, I'm gonna try anyway. I've wanted it ever since I was little, and if I'd been allowed, I would have been racing since about 7 or 8. I may have to use a minivan at some point in my life, but I'll make sure it always has enough room for a kart in the back ;)

Kneeslider: Again, it's that money. =/ I would probably love motorcycle racing, but as long as I'm living in my parents' house (there's literally no cheap housing near where I am), there's no way I'm even gonna be allowed to touch a motorcycle. I'm prepared for the way of life, if I can find a job and a low-cost apartment, though I'm not willing to set relationships aside. I'd just have to find someone who'd put up with all the time spent tinkering and anticipating and actually racing and doing all that. I'd wait somewhere around five years to find someone who would, but if nobody came along, I probably would drop racing. I need human contact as much as the rumble of an engine.

[janvanvurpa]

Kid, you really need to push away from the keyboard and stop writing..
You will never get a race licence if you disclose your huge array of problems and that is a good thing..

And you are obviously compelled to go on endlessly about your unfortunate problems..

They don't give licences out for 800 SAT---which I have seen you bring up on Psychology Today comments arguing with everybody there--- along with your astronomical IQ..
Those things don't count.

At least you have a real reason that you "coulda been a contender".....most people simply lack the will to make the choices to give up everything and work 80hrs a week towards what is VERY LIKELY a complete dead end for 10 years.

You're 20. Face it like an adult and accept your problems are too much to deal with AND do a sport so dependant on huge sums of money----unless there's a trust fund in the background you haven't mentioned.

[pkeegs]

Kid, you really need to push away from the keyboard and stop writing..
You will never get a race licence if you disclose your huge array of problems and that is a good thing..

And you are obviously compelled to go on endlessly about your unfortunate problems..

They don't give licences out for 800 SAT---which I have seen you bring up on Psychology Today comments arguing with everybody there--- along with your astronomical IQ..
Those things don't count.

At least you have a real reason that you "coulda been a contender".....most people simply lack the will to make the choices to give up everything and work 80hrs a week towards what is VERY LIKELY a complete dead end for 10 years.

You're 20. Face it like an adult and accept your problems are too much to deal with AND do a sport so dependant on huge sums of money----unless there's a trust fund in the background you haven't mentioned.

The last time I posted on psychologytoday.com, it was March 16 2011, and I had just come out of being ridiculously manic. I was making no sense, and I know that now. I decided to not go back for a reason.

I'm not saying they count in racing. I'm saying that they're things that I'm proud of, things I brought up as a push back against what I perceived to be a personal attack on myself, my intelligence included. In the moment, they seemed like valid things to bring into the conversation. Perhaps I should have PM'd the people who I felt were attacking me.

Some of the most successful people out there are more psychologically messed up than I am. The difference is only in what the parents would allow them to pursue when they were little.

I will admit, though, that I'm a complainer by nature. Don't know why. However, you seem more inclined than I to go on about my problems.

Also, I would not be dangerous on the track; I would follow all rules and regulations, as well as general etiquette, be it written or not.

I will, however, apologize to you if I argued with you on Psychology Today. Hell, I'll apologize that you even had to see those abominations of conversations I had there.

[race aficionado]

Very interesting dynamics in this thread:

Is he? Isn't he? Oh yes he is! Oh no he isn't!

Very articulate and complex and intriguing . . . specially for us that have never experienced the desire to make a living out of speed but that have experienced the thrill of almost being on two (of the four wheels appended to the vehicle) whilst taking a curve that looks oh so appetizing as we grabbed the steering wheel as if it were probably the last thing that we were ever going to do in our lives but was so well worth it.

Any way . . . . very interesting read.

Thanks.

:)

[F1boat]

Not read all the thread but you sound like a dick, and a dangerous one at that. Stop driving like a twat on the road and go to some sprints (I think the yanks call them autocross). If the US regs are anything like here in the UK then you can use pretty much any car and it'll show you how quick you really are up against other people (I guarantee that you are actually quite slow, driving quick on the track is completely different to going quick on the road). I did a hillclimb last week and there were single seat (F1 type) racers, saloon cars, Imprezas & Evos, spaceframe racers (Westfields and Caterham 7 type things, some with car engines, others with bike engines), a bloke in a FIAT 500 Arbarth and even a guy in a VW Lupo TDi. If you can't afford a car (one guy at a sprint I did had a £500 Kia Pride) then motorsport is the wrong hobby.

Interesting that you say you see the roads differently to everyone else and use different lines, what makes you think that you've tapped into a secret line different from the one that thousands of racing drivers have agreed on for decades?

Yes, autocross is also a viable option as well as hillclimbing.

[janvanvurpa]

Yes, autocross is also a viable option as well as hillclimbing.

Somehow I don't think the kid is going to get his excitement fix he needs driving around some little orange cones in a parking lot for 40 seconds in first and second gear driving maybe 60 km/hr...

And even there there are costs for entry and tires.......

At least suspension is easy for "auto-cross"---just fit springs 2 or 3 times stiffer than used on tarmac circuit racing---so stiff there is no need for dampers since the springs never move.
Or remove the springs altogether and ride on the bumpstops.

Hard to say if hillclimbs are an option since much of America is as flat as a table for thousands of miles....

[MrJan]

Somehow I don't think the kid is going to get his excitement fix he needs driving around some little orange cones in a parking lot for 40 seconds in first and second gear driving maybe 60 km/hr...

And even there there are costs for entry and tires.......

At least suspension is easy for "auto-cross"---just fit springs 2 or 3 times stiffer than used on tarmac circuit racing---so stiff there is no need for dampers since the springs never move.
Or remove the springs altogether and ride on the bumpstops.

Hard to say if hillclimbs are an option since much of America is as flat as a table for thousands of miles....

We're talking about cheap motorsport so that's going to have to be the option. Anything more and you're talking thousands of dollars. Also I'm not sure what a proper autocross in the US is like but sprints here in the UK are significantly quicker than 60km/h, at a hillclimb I did the other week the single seat racers were hitting 130mph on the short straight, that's a buzz far in excess of anything on the road. It's also not about top speed, if you have a car on the very edge then it's exciting even if you're only doing 30mph.

[driveace]

Is this guy as genuine as you all believe ?From the read,which is only a small amount of what has been written,his writing is quite good for a 20 year old,and to me ,it all sounds like some one is having a laugh here !And I feel it is him having a laugh at you !

[MrJan]

Is this guy as genuine as you all believe ?From the read,which is only a small amount of what has been written,his writing is quite good for a 20 year old,and to me ,it all sounds like some one is having a laugh here !And I feel it is him having a laugh at you !

Quite good for a 20 year old? Is anyone under the age of 30 an idiot? **** me, at the age of 20 I had to write a 12,000 dissertation, you don't just crap out that many words without a few of them making sense.

[Mark]

Indeed, don't judge all 20 year olds by the average 20 year olds standards ;)

[Zico]

Is this guy as genuine as you all believe ?From the read,which is only a small amount of what has been written,his writing is quite good for a 20 year old,and to me ,it all sounds like some one is having a laugh here !And I feel it is him having a laugh at you !


Yes, the style reminds me of 'Wades' posts, I was expecting the mods to use the tools they have at their disposal but they are either also having a laugh by keeping stum or he is actually genuine.. either way I dont mind, it has been an amusing and interesting thread. :)


Pkeegs- As Mr Jan Yeo suggests, you should try and get some experience with a shifter, there is just so much more you can do with the cornering balance and braking with a shifter/clutch, ie, if you are good with smooth downshifting (heel/toe) you can reduce stopping distances by a large percentage. It also provides more engine braking which allows you to alter mid corner balance a lot more than you could with most autos.

[pkeegs]

race aficionado: You're welcome for my part in that, haha.

John: You're right about that one--autocross would probably drive me a little insane, because it's such a short course and you can't really go that fast.

MrJan: You're also right; driving the course would be pretty exciting, even if I only got the car up to about 70 mph. My issue would be that I would have about five minutes of seat time total in the whole day at an autocross, maybe even less. If it's the only option, I'll do it, but I'd rather do kart racing or something. Just... money. Gah.

driveace: I can post a picture of my ID up here (with my ID number scrambled or blacked out, of course).

MrJan and Mark: Thanks.

Zico: I'm glad they haven't, because if they did it thinking I was this Wade dude, they'd be incorrect.
And I do want to try a shifter. I'm going to contact LIKA--Long Island Karting Association--to see if they have a course I could take to learn.

Whatever happens, I want to make a living out of driving, and I believe I can do it if I try hard enough. It will take a long time, lots of effort, and every cent I have, but I believe it's possible.

[MrJan]

MrJan: You're also right; driving the course would be pretty exciting, even if I only got the car up to about 70 mph. My issue would be that I would have about five minutes of seat time total in the whole day at an autocross, maybe even less. If it's the only option, I'll do it, but I'd rather do kart racing or something. Just... money. Gah.

I do sprinting/hillclimbs (autocross) and I've done karting, it's two completely different things. Karting is a laugh but the buzz you get from being in a proper car is a world away. Trust me, the andrenaline rush you get from even 30 seconds in the car at 100% is worth the extra cash and the fact that you get much less seat time. Given the choice between paying £30 (or whatever) for 40 minutes seat time in a kart and paying £90 for 4 minutes seat time on a hillclimb I will always opt for the latter.

[MrJan]

Whatever happens, I want to make a living out of driving, and I believe I can do it if I try hard enough. It will take a long time, lots of effort, and every cent I have, but I believe it's possible.

You better learn how to drive a truck or a cab then, because you will not be a racing driver. As someone who has followed motorsport for 20+ years I guarantee you that you will not be able to get into motor racing and get paid to do it to the extent where you don't need another job. People do not earn money racing cars unless they are very very talented and picked up from an early age. It's harsh but you are already way too old to fit into that category.

[schmenke]

You better learn how to drive a truck or a cab then, because you will not be a racing driver. As someone who has followed motorsport for 20+ years I guarantee you that you will not be able to get into motor racing and get paid to do it to the extent where you don't need another job. People do not earn money racing cars unless they are very very talented and picked up from an early age. It's harsh but you are already way too old to fit into that category.

Indeed. As an example, my eldest daughter is only 7 and I’ve recently started inquiring about local karting clubs for her (minimum age is 8 here :mark: ).
And even entry-level karting can be a financial commitment of several thousand $’s per year :s

[MrJan]

Indeed. As an example, my eldest daughter is only 7 and I’ve recently started inquiring about local karting clubs for her (minimum age is 8 here :mark: ).
And even entry-level karting can be a financial commitment of several thousand $’s per year :s

Yup, at ther age of about 15 I had to admit to myself that I was already too old for a career in motorsport to be anything but a dream...in truth I'd probably been too old a few years before that.

The problem is that there is a lot of competition for a very, very small percentage of paid seats, even the 24 guys in F1 aren't all there purely on driving merit. A big national series like the British Touring Car Championship consists mostly of chequebook racers and as for rallying...well there's only about 4 in the World Championship that take a wage...and one of them had to fund himself last season.

[Mark]

Indeed even in Formula 1 how much of the field actually earn money in their own right and how many are 'ride buyers', mostly because they have the backing of a major sponsor, but the fact is that they aren't employed on merit.

Certainly true about BTCC too. There might be a couple who get paid, at most. Even the drivers at the top have to do other jobs such as being a racing instructor.

[janvanvurpa]

Yup, at ther age of about 15 I had to admit to myself that I was already too old for a career in motorsport to be anything but a dream...in truth I'd probably been too old a few years before that.

The problem is that there is a lot of competition for a very, very small percentage of paid seats, even the 24 guys in F1 aren't all there purely on driving merit. A big national series like the British Touring Car Championship consists mostly of chequebook racers and as for rallying...well there's only about 4 in the World Championship that take a wage...and one of them had to fund himself last season.

Too old for AUTO motorsports...some motorsports demand extremely high physical conditioning and that strength and endurance is overwhelmingly important...And oddly those motorsports paid in the past anyway pretty good Start money on the International level, it was in my time roughly 1/2 months wages for a skilled machinist. And at that time one could do from 5 to 7 events in a month...depending on how many National and Catholic holidays there were in a given month. I did 5 in on month and 6 in the next..
Better money than anything else I ever did.

Motorsports does include things other than CARS,