Bahrain: The aftermath

[Knock-on]

Well, now that the sensational media has finished whipping the masses into a frenzy, feedback is starting to come back from people that were actually on the ground.

Formula 1 teams criticise media for 'politicising' Bahrain Grand Prix - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99121)

Bahrain circuit chief Zayed Alzayani baffled by 'negative' media coverage of grand prix - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99122)

A reflection « (http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/04/22/a-reflection/#comments)

Lets hope Bahrain continues to sort out it's problems and a peaceful outcome is achieved before next years race.

[Robinho]

i read this from Joe Saward earlier, not always a fan of his style, but this was a very interesting read

On the front line (http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/on-the-front-line-at-starbucks/)

could it be that things in Bahrain are not as bad as we are lead to believe by some in the media? I'm still unsure, but the reports coming in do tell a different story than the media were providing in the weeks leading up to the race

[SGWilko]

i read this from Joe Saward earlier, not always a fan of his style, but this was a very interesting read

On the front line (http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/on-the-front-line-at-starbucks/)

could it be that things in Bahrain are not as bad as we are lead to believe by some in the media?

You think?

Happiness and world peace does not appeal to the editor as it does not sell papers....

[Malbec]

i read this from Joe Saward earlier, not always a fan of his style, but this was a very interesting read

On the front line (http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/on-the-front-line-at-starbucks/)

could it be that things in Bahrain are not as bad as we are lead to believe by some in the media? I'm still unsure, but the reports coming in do tell a different story than the media were providing in the weeks leading up to the race

His later articles are even better where he talks to some well off Bahrainis who give the POV of some of the people stuck in the middle though I don't think Joe realises that people who are that well off may not represent the opinion of normal Bahrainis.

I think the actual security risks were overstated and the worst that seems to have happened is that the FI engineers got caught in the middle of a skirmish but noone was hurt thankfully all weekend.

The thing is, after all thats happened I still cannot understand why the FIA wanted to go so much and why the Bahraini government wanted the race too.

On BBC R4 a Bahraini government rep was asked directly whether his country was civilised after the behaviour of the police documented in the report the Bahraini government commissioned, and he was ripped to shreds on the 'reforms' the Bahraini government has promised but hasn't bothered to implement. Is this the great PR that the race was supposed to bring? The global press may have exaggerated the level of violence in Bahrain but it was obvious that press coverage of the race was going to be overwhelmingly negative, the expensive and highly capable Western PR companies hired by the Bahrainis would have told them that, so why bother?

Later on the Bahraini rep trotted out the usual stuff about the race being great for tourism and a boost for economy. Really? Hardly anyone turned up to watch the race. Did it bring in enough to compensate for $40 million the Bahrainis paid to host the race? What about the security bills?

Instead of putting up billboards claiming the race will unify Bahrain how about sorting things out on the political front? That might go a little further to sort things out on a permanent basis.

All in all there was a lot of bizarre decision making going on by several parties.

[BDunnell]

I think the actual security risks were overstated and the worst that seems to have happened is that the FI engineers got caught in the middle of a skirmish but noone was hurt thankfully all weekend.

The thing is, after all thats happened I still cannot understand why the FIA wanted to go so much and why the Bahraini government wanted the race too.

Precisely. It is very easy for people to say that it was OK for the race to go ahead because it wasn't directly affected by the protests, but this was never the whole point.




On BBC R4 a Bahraini government rep was asked directly whether his country was civilised after the behaviour of the police documented in the report the Bahraini government commissioned, and he was ripped to shreds on the 'reforms' the Bahraini government has promised but hasn't bothered to implement. Is this the great PR that the race was supposed to bring? The global press may have exaggerated the level of violence in Bahrain but it was obvious that press coverage of the race was going to be overwhelmingly negative, the expensive and highly capable Western PR companies hired by the Bahrainis would have told them that, so why bother?

Later on the Bahraini rep trotted out the usual stuff about the race being great for tourism and a boost for economy. Really? Hardly anyone turned up to watch the race. Did it bring in enough to compensate for $40 million the Bahrainis paid to host the race? What about the security bills?

I heard what must have been the same report, and laughed out loud at the point made about the economic boost for that very reason. Such outlandish claims do little to enhance the credibility of the regime's statements on other matters relating to the current situation, to say nothing of how empty the view that F1 could 'unify the country' was and is. F1 is not a participatory sport like football or cricket in which ordinary people can, through playing themselves, be brought together. That such notions were given any credence at all says much for the way in which vacuous PR statements have been allowed to gain too much currency. No-one was pressed on what this supposed 'unifying force' means in practice. I, certainly, am none the wiser.

And what's the overall aftermath of the GP? No change in Bahrain, for better or worse — but it's a further stain on the image of F1, and more ammunition for its detractors. (And ioan is no longer posting on the F1 forum.)

[Tazio]

I just want to acknowledge that those members that did not watch the race for philosophical reasons that I admire some part of your constitution.

[Knock-on]

I personally think that the media blew the issues out of all proportion. Teams of reporters fled the f1 scene to areas of disaffection in order to "report" issues that were primarily fuelled by the media. Very poor journalism.

A friend of mine from retroF1 was in personal contact with some normal Bahrain F1 fans during the week. They said they have noticed nothing, their children went to school without being firebombed and apart from a few extra police arond, there was no change.

The feeling was one of frustration with the media who were misreporting the situation and selling them up the river.

I know a lot of fans expected people sacrificing themselves in front of cars, and bombs in the race but this was a falicy generated by unresponsible journalists.

The Country has a long way to go but I'm sure they will get there without the media Circus.

[BDunnell]

The feeling was one of frustration with the media who were misreporting the situation and selling them up the river.

Selling them up the river to what end?

[Malbec]

I personally think that the media blew the issues out of all proportion. Teams of reporters fled the f1 scene to areas of disaffection in order to "report" issues that were primarily fuelled by the media. Very poor journalism.

What do you mean by issues?

If you mean the real security risk to the race and F1 staff then I agree, they were blown out of all proportion. If you mean the political differences which have been going on intermittently for nearly two decades now then no, they weren't blown up at all.


A friend of mine from retroF1 was in personal contact with some normal Bahrain F1 fans during the week. They said they have noticed nothing, their children went to school without being firebombed and apart from a few extra police arond, there was no change.

The feeling was one of frustration with the media who were misreporting the situation and selling them up the river.

Great, what was their background? Wealthy or poor? Shia or Sunni? Pro/anti-reform? If Bahraini F1 fans have a similar demographic to F1 fans from other countries like the UK they are not representative of the entire population.


The Country has a long way to go but I'm sure they will get there without the media Circus.

You keep saying this and I have to keep asking you, exactly what has the government done to even start moving down the road to reform? Why do you think matters will improve if the government refuses to address any of the demands made by the protestors?

Even Joe Saward's article where he talks to 'ordinary' but well off Bahrainis indicates that the recognition for the need to reform is widespread.

[fandango]

Well, now that the sensational media has finished whipping the masses into a frenzy, feedback is starting to come back from people that were actually on the ground.......[edited]......Lets hope Bahrain continues to sort out it's problems and a peaceful outcome is achieved before next years race.

While I agree with the sentiment (not sure if "continues" is apt here, though), I think that for F1 too there are some significant problems to be sorted out. I did my own little personal boycott of the race because Todt and Bernie allowed F1 to get stuck in the middle of some extremely sensitive, life-and-death politics. They had many opportunities to stop the race. In fact, they should have postponed it as soon as they saw the "UniF1ed" logo, as a warning to the hosts.

Personally, what made me decide not to watch was this involvement in a political issue, combined with the fact that the Bahraini government refused entry to the country to non-F1 foreign journalists. I really wanted to watch the race, but I saw no convincing argument in favour of it, apart from the fact that I love watching F1.

In the end, F1 was lucky. Nothing major happened that one could link to the race. However, Todt and Bernie have brought F1 into disrepute, and there doesn't seem to be any way to address that in the way of an enquiry or an investigation. What they've done is a LOT worse than any boy-racer antics by Hamilton or some such thing.
So, if they continue to be lucky, everyone will forget about the PR disaster that was the 2012 Bahrain GP, but if something similar happens again soon, the teams will feel unprotected and even threatened by the people who are supposed to look after their interests. Just how lucky can you be?

[wedge]

Todt and Bernie have brought F1 into disrepute, and there doesn't seem to be any way to address that in the way of an enquiry or an investigation.

Bernie does it all the time whenever he open his mouth.

[wedge]

Ross Brawn has been a man of integrity post-Ferrari but I do wonder what he makes of all this after he/Bernie retires indefinitely from F1.

[SGWilko]

Selling them up the river to what end?

A spring I'd imagine.....

[Bagwan]

The Starbucks meeting , and articles it spawned , have cast a different light entirely over the decision to race .

But some , if not all have at some point acknowledged that there was a possibility of the three Bahrainis they met were government plants , employed to soften the blow of the warnings of violence that came before the race .
While that may or may not be true , it cannot be argued that Saward is the perfect target for a clever propagandist , being independent , and well-respected for his opinions .
Those three certainly convinced him , and not seeing much of what others were reporting as "armoured vehicles lining streets" , made him extremely suspicious of others on site .
However , he reported at one point , that the only time he saw an armoured vehicle was when his driver made a wrong turn . This says to me that perhaps he was right to think there were no armoured vehicles on the many routes he took , as those vehicles were perhaps employed elsewhere , to keep the protest back from those roads he was on .
We must not forget that the Force India team ran into trouble on one of those roads , and it should not be any surprise that there would be more security keeping any trouble much farther in the background , when Joe or anyone else was to be travelling there after that Molotov cocktail incident .
It would have been very embarassing for the king .
Another aspect of this that hasn't been addressed that I've seen , is where the reporters that were giving accounts of armoured vehicles , were getting that particular information . In the situation , it isn't hard to believe that they might have been fed false reports for the sole purpose of setting them up for a fall , when a Joe Saward , fed opposite view , comes along .

The fact that nothing happened to upset the running is being pushed as being some proof that reportage of the events running up to the race were overblown .
But , a man died on Friday night , reportedly with multiple scrapes and bruises , along with many shotgun pellets .
Pearl roundabout , last year the site of much public protest , and police brutality , was cordoned off with barbed wire , prohibitting protest .
Tires burned in the distance .

Propaganda works best when somebody else says your words .

[Malbec]

The Starbucks meeting , and articles it spawned , have cast a different light entirely over the decision to race .

But some , if not all have at some point acknowledged that there was a possibility of the three Bahrainis they met were government plants , employed to soften the blow of the warnings of violence that came before the race .
While that may or may not be true , it cannot be argued that Saward is the perfect target for a clever propagandist , being independent , and well-respected for his opinions .
Those three certainly convinced him , and not seeing much of what others were reporting as "armoured vehicles lining streets" , made him extremely suspicious of others on site .
However , he reported at one point , that the only time he saw an armoured vehicle was when his driver made a wrong turn . This says to me that perhaps he was right to think there were no armoured vehicles on the many routes he took , as those vehicles were perhaps employed elsewhere , to keep the protest back from those roads he was on .
We must not forget that the Force India team ran into trouble on one of those roads , and it should not be any surprise that there would be more security keeping any trouble much farther in the background , when Joe or anyone else was to be travelling there after that Molotov cocktail incident .
It would have been very embarassing for the king .
Another aspect of this that hasn't been addressed that I've seen , is where the reporters that were giving accounts of armoured vehicles , were getting that particular information . In the situation , it isn't hard to believe that they might have been fed false reports for the sole purpose of setting them up for a fall , when a Joe Saward , fed opposite view , comes along .

The fact that nothing happened to upset the running is being pushed as being some proof that reportage of the events running up to the race were overblown .
But , a man died on Friday night , reportedly with multiple scrapes and bruises , along with many shotgun pellets .
Pearl roundabout , last year the site of much public protest , and police brutality , was cordoned off with barbed wire , prohibitting protest .
Tires burned in the distance .

Propaganda works best when somebody else says your words .

The problem is that there were three types of journalist reporting about Bahrain.

The first were the F1 journalists there primarily to cover the race while musing about their experiences outside the circuit but not looking for trouble.

Then there were a few non-F1 journalists looking in the problem areas.

Finally the vast majority of journalists were stationed in Dubai, Abu Dhabi or elsewhere having not been allowed access to Bahrain at all, and I think these ones were the guys writing most of the articles worldwide with no firsthand experience.

I have little doubt armoured cars were deployed somewhere in Bahrain but I don't know where, and I suspect that inventive editors used that information to portray a picture of a Bahrain GP only going ahead with a ring of tanks and troops surrounding it, which the likes of Joe Saward clearly took issue with because they saw nothing of the kind.

As for the Starbucks article there is a very articulate comment made by a Brazilian that the middle classes in his country were quite happy to tolerate massive human rights abuses by their military government during the 1970s as long as the economy was growing and their quality of life improved, but joined the throngs of pro-democracy groups only when the economy hit a crisis in the 80s/90s. There are plenty of other examples throughout history of the same kind of behaviour by the middle classes.

I don't think Joe Saward realises that the people he spoke to are from this group whose concerns are mainly about having a flourishing economy to thrive in rather than pushing for democracy and that his view talking to three people is also limited, but its clear that he takes great offence if you suggest this. It would be fascinating to speak to a large representative group of Bahrainis and find out what their opinions really are, both about their government and the race.

[Bagwan]

The problem is that there were three types of journalist reporting about Bahrain.

The first were the F1 journalists there primarily to cover the race while musing about their experiences outside the circuit but not looking for trouble.

Then there were a few non-F1 journalists looking in the problem areas.

Finally the vast majority of journalists were stationed in Dubai, Abu Dhabi or elsewhere having not been allowed access to Bahrain at all, and I think these ones were the guys writing most of the articles worldwide with no firsthand experience.

I have little doubt armoured cars were deployed somewhere in Bahrain but I don't know where, and I suspect that inventive editors used that information to portray a picture of a Bahrain GP only going ahead with a ring of tanks and troops surrounding it, which the likes of Joe Saward clearly took issue with because they saw nothing of the kind.

As for the Starbucks article there is a very articulate comment made by a Brazilian that the middle classes in his country were quite happy to tolerate massive human rights abuses by their military government during the 1970s as long as the economy was growing and their quality of life improved, but joined the throngs of pro-democracy groups only when the economy hit a crisis in the 80s/90s. There are plenty of other examples throughout history of the same kind of behaviour by the middle classes.

I don't think Joe Saward realises that the people he spoke to are from this group whose concerns are mainly about having a flourishing economy to thrive in rather than pushing for democracy and that his view talking to three people is also limited, but its clear that he takes great offence if you suggest this. It would be fascinating to speak to a large representative group of Bahrainis and find out what their opinions really are, both about their government and the race.

I saw our beloved Daniel giving Joe a hard time , along with others , and he clearly didn't like his view questioned .
Joe needs to remember that he , despite having been very vocal about the violence issues beforehand , he was welcomed into the land where many journalists were not . Some were detained and deported , while Joe was sipping joe at Starbucks .

[Malbec]

I saw our beloved Daniel giving Joe a hard time , along with others , and he clearly didn't like his view questioned .
Joe needs to remember that he , despite having been very vocal about the violence issues beforehand , he was welcomed into the land where many journalists were not . Some were detained and deported , while Joe was sipping joe at Starbucks .

EA WorldView - Home - Bahrain Special: How Regime Supporters Became The "Silent Majority" for 3 Foreign*Journalists (http://www.enduringamerica.com/home/2012/4/25/bahrain-special-how-regime-supporters-became-the-silent-majo.html)

So, Joe's three ordinary Bahrainis include two political activists... OK

[F1boat]

As much as I dislike the track and this part of the world, with its religious wars, I am happy that the race happened, because it was good. I am pleased with the security of the track and about the political situation I am not sure which is better - an absolute monarchy which still tries to have good contacts with the world and organizes global events, or a potential small Iran.

[jens]

Joe's article is certainly very interesting and a bit of an eye-opener as well. However, three persons are not much of a representation, when it comes to making conclusions about the opinion of people in general. I don't know if this would have been possible, but perhaps he could have walked around in the city and asked all those "neutral" people on the streets about their views.

[BDunnell]

Well, what do you know? The aftermath certainly isn't as I expected, for I've logged in tonight and found posts in the F1 forum from someone called 'ioan'. Now this can't possibly be the real ioan. He said he wasn't going to post here any more if the Bahrain race went ahead, didn't he?

[ArrowsFA1]

No controversy about GP2 being in Bahrain this weekend :dozey:

[Knock-on]

No controversy about GP2 being in Bahrain this weekend :dozey:

LOL. That doesn't matter apparently :laugh:

[Dr. Krogshöj]

With the amount of dishonest, malicious, ignorant and offensive BS written about Hungary and the Hungarian government in the past two years in the Western (especially French and German) media, I can certainly understand what a lot of ordinary people in Bahrain feel about the sensationalist hacks. Kudos for Joe Saward for this. He comes through as an arrogant person but he's right this time.

[Knock-on]

With the amount of dishonest, malicious, ignorant and offensive BS written about Hungary and the Hungarian government in the past two years in the Western (especially French and German) media, I can certainly understand what a lot of ordinary people in Bahrain feel about the sensationalist hacks. Kudos for Joe Saward for this. He comes through as an arrogant person but he's right this time.

It's very sad really. When I was growing up I believed that the UK was the good guys doing what was true and just around the world against the forces of evil. This was reinforced by the media and the hallowed BBC who faced fear, oppression, imprisonment and mortal danger to report the truth; whatever it may be.

Now i realise that my Government are a bunch of self serving, selfish, greedy trough scavengers with scant regard for truth and justice married by an incestious relationship to the media. Whether it's Murdochs corrupt journalists or the 'good ole BBC', little regard is given to the truth but rather great emphasis is given to sensationalism and visual impact. The reality is pretty boring compared to a fiction that can be fabricated under the guise of 'News'.

Quite frnkly, if I don't see it for myself or people I personally know are trustworthy, I take it with a pinch of salt.

[BDunnell]

No controversy about GP2 being in Bahrain this weekend :dozey:

Well, of course there isn't, because the GP2 race has not been used for political purposes by the Bahraini regime in the same way the F1 race was, thus rendering it of little interest as a focus of protest.

[BDunnell]

It's very sad really. When I was growing up I believed that the UK was the good guys doing what was true and just around the world against the forces of evil. This was reinforced by the media and the hallowed BBC who faced fear, oppression, imprisonment and mortal danger to report the truth; whatever it may be.

Now i realise that my Government are a bunch of self serving, selfish, greedy trough scavengers with scant regard for truth and justice married by an incestious relationship to the media. Whether it's Murdochs corrupt journalists or the 'good ole BBC', little regard is given to the truth but rather great emphasis is given to sensationalism and visual impact. The reality is pretty boring compared to a fiction that can be fabricated in under the guise of News.

Quite frnkly, if I don't see it for myself or people I personally know are trustworthy, I take it with a pinch of salt.

And yet you were prepared to give more credence to the word of the Bahraini regime than you are that of your own country's government, apparently.

[Malbec]

Now i realise that my Government are a bunch of self serving, selfish, greedy trough scavengers with scant regard for truth and justice married by an incestious relationship to the media. Whether it's Murdochs corrupt journalists or the 'good ole BBC', little regard is given to the truth but rather great emphasis is given to sensationalism and visual impact. The reality is pretty boring compared to a fiction that can be fabricated under the guise of 'News'.

And it took you how long to figure this out?

Your current stance though is little better than taking what the global press have been saying at face value. You seem to believe Bahraini propaganda with little scepticism. Is that better? Do you really believe the Bahrainis are more trustworthy than anyone else? If so you must have been devastated to find Comical Ali was wrong about the Americans being torn to pieces in Baghdad.

[Malbec]

LOL. That doesn't matter apparently :laugh:

I must have missed the massive Bahraini UniGP2ed ad campaign, must have been a blinder.

[Malbec]

With the amount of dishonest, malicious, ignorant and offensive BS written about Hungary and the Hungarian government in the past two years in the Western (especially French and German) media.

What BS is this (honest question)? All I've heard are the problems faced by the Hungarian economy due to the devaluing of their currency compared to the Euro.

[Dave B]

I personally think that the media blew the issues out of all proportion. Teams of reporters fled the f1 scene to areas of disaffection in order to "report" issues that were primarily fuelled by the media. Very poor journalism.

A friend of mine from retroF1 was in personal contact with some normal Bahrain F1 fans during the week. They said they have noticed nothing, their children went to school without being firebombed and apart from a few extra police arond, there was no change.

The feeling was one of frustration with the media who were misreporting the situation and selling them up the river.

I know a lot of fans expected people sacrificing themselves in front of cars, and bombs in the race but this was a falicy generated by unresponsible journalists.

The Country has a long way to go but I'm sure they will get there without the media Circus.
It's no different to being in Kensington during the London riots: you probably wouldn't have known there was a problem but that doesn't mean there wasn't any trouble. A few reporters have decided that just because they didn't see any violence, all was fine and dandy. Some of them are probably more worried about turning up in Spain only to find their paddock passes revoked at the turnstile. I'm sure some other parts of the media have over-exaggerated the issue, and the truth lies somewhere in between.

But it's ludicrous for the likes of Jackie Stewart, Joe Saward, and anybody else with those initials to pretend there isn't a problem.

[truefan72]

so now that there were coordinated bomb attacks in the Ukraine by terrorists should they cancel the Euro 2012?
because obviously there are issues in the country and dangerous elements abound?

I'm bringing this up here to get the reaction of the same folks here calling for the Bahrain GP cancellation and see if they stand firm on their principles
I guess don't send the England squad over there right?
Uefa should be ashamed right?
etc, etc, etc,

we'll see how some of you folks on here react.
I look forward to your principled stance!

My point is there is trouble and questionable incidents the world over. Heck just a few years ago there were riots in London and now the Olympics is coming.
Has the problem of inequality and police brutality gone? Now bombings in Ukraine where the Euro's are taking place.

so spare the sanctimoniousness when it comes to other parts of the world.

[truefan72]

I personally think that the media blew the issues out of all proportion. Teams of reporters fled the f1 scene to areas of disaffection in order to "report" issues that were primarily fuelled by the media. Very poor journalism.

A friend of mine from retroF1 was in personal contact with some normal Bahrain F1 fans during the week. They said they have noticed nothing, their children went to school without being firebombed and apart from a few extra police arond, there was no change.

The feeling was one of frustration with the media who were misreporting the situation and selling them up the river.

I know a lot of fans expected people sacrificing themselves in front of cars, and bombs in the race but this was a falicy generated by unresponsible journalists.

The Country has a long way to go but I'm sure they will get there without the media Circus.

:up: very well said

[F1boat]

With the amount of dishonest, malicious, ignorant and offensive BS written about Hungary and the Hungarian government

I have read about the changes in the Constitution and IMO the government is poisonous, but maybe this is a bit off topic.

[Malbec]

so now that there were coordinated bomb attacks in the Ukraine by terrorists should they cancel the Euro 2012?
because obviously there are issues in the country and dangerous elements abound?

I'm bringing this up here to get the reaction of the same folks here calling for the Bahrain GP cancellation and see if they stand firm on their principles
I guess don't send the England squad over there right?
Uefa should be ashamed right?
etc, etc, etc,

we'll see how some of you folks on here react.
I look forward to your principled stance!

My point is there is trouble and questionable incidents the world over. Heck just a few years ago there were riots in London and now the Olympics is coming.
Has the problem of inequality and police brutality gone? Now bombings in Ukraine where the Euro's are taking place.

so spare the sanctimoniousness when it comes to other parts of the world.

You clearly don't understand the issue here at all.

According to the FIA's own regulations races must not be politicised. I suspect you would not have a problem if a race was cancelled because the race organisers refused to provide adequate medical support, so why is it that you simply believe that other regulations covering race organisers should be ignored?

A few years ago a short fat bald man presented the trophy to a race winner, turned around and grinned. For that action the Turkish race organisers were fined $5-10 million for politicising F1. The guy was a president of Turkish Cyprus which is contested territory. He didn't make any political speeches or wave any flags and you wouldn't have known who he was unless you read the caption at the bottom of the TV feed.

Given that precedence you'd have thought that the Bahraini race would have been shot down way before the season given the overtly political nature of the race with the government openly proclaiming to anyone who would listen that this was to uniF1y(TM) the country.

During the race the crown prince came to the circuit to talk not about motorsport but only about politics and to thank the F1 world for coming to prove his political point.

If the Turks were fined $5-10 million for the stunt they pulled the Bahrainis should surely have been fined billions.

On top of that there were the security concerns with nearly a quarter of the population rising up this time last year. Luckily the same did not happen this year but that could not have been predicted in advance.

The question to you is, why do you agree with the FIA refusing to acknowledge its own regulations so openly?

[truefan72]

You clearly don't understand the issue here at all.

According to the FIA's own regulations races must not be politicised. I suspect you would not have a problem if a race was cancelled because the race organisers refused to provide adequate medical support, so why is it that you simply believe that other regulations covering race organisers should be ignored?

A few years ago a short fat bald man presented the trophy to a race winner, turned around and grinned. For that action the Turkish race organisers were fined $5-10 million for politicising F1. The guy was a president of Turkish Cyprus which is contested territory. He didn't make any political speeches or wave any flags and you wouldn't have known who he was unless you read the caption at the bottom of the TV feed.

Given that precedence you'd have thought that the Bahraini race would have been shot down way before the season given the overtly political nature of the race with the government openly proclaiming to anyone who would listen that this was to uniF1y(TM) the country.

During the race the crown prince came to the circuit to talk not about motorsport but only about politics and to thank the F1 world for coming to prove his political point.

If the Turks were fined $5-10 million for the stunt they pulled the Bahrainis should surely have been fined billions.

On top of that there were the security concerns with nearly a quarter of the population rising up this time last year. Luckily the same did not happen this year but that could not have been predicted in advance.

The question to you is, why do you agree with the FIA refusing to acknowledge its own regulations so openly?

...and that is why they sat out 2011
but in 2012 the issues had subsided and only flared up because the race was coming to town

Not staging the race would have been politicising it.

So according to you we should not hold any races in any countries with political problems, even if they occured a year ago.
Last I checked Russia is still having major terrorist problems and an ongoing conflict with georgia and other former states,
I don't hear anyone questioning holding the race there

Al Quedia always threatens and in fact bombed london and madrid, no calling off the races those years

China has ongoing issues, too many to list
Malaysia has a separatist problem that flares up from time to time

For over 25 years the IRA had an ongoing war with England that resulted in many terrorist acts.
According to them they are fighting for the independence of Northern Island from British rule...races go on

Turkey got fined for its cypres stunt, but that has not ended their issues in that region. Kurds, Iraq border, etc.

India has all kinds of issues... race was staged

I could go on and on,
The point is, there is conflict all over the world
If it flared up like it did last year in Bahrain, then cancel the race, and I was with that decision
But this is now a year later and things have calmed down significantly, there are still issues in the country no doubt, but not staging the race would be a bigger political act than staging it and would set a terrible precedent in terms of F1 and politics. The crown prince, right or wrong can talk all he wants during the race weekend and as the crown prince can hand over the winners trophy too. It just smacks of sanctimony imo for those against holding the race. Don't kid yourself if you don't think other governments or heads of state use the f1 weekend as an opportunity to paint pictures of their nation etc.

btw you did not answer my question as to whether the Euro's should be stages since we now have terrorist bombings in the Ukraine.
Best to stay out of the region and not get into the politics right?

[Knock-on]

And yet you were prepared to give more credence to the word of the Bahraini regime than you are that of your own country's government, apparently.

No, I gave credability to my own observation of the people of the Middle East, based on my experience of working out there and the opinions of people that live in Bahrain that a close friend of mine was in contact with over the last year or so. If you bothered to read my posts you would see that I have clearly stated this.

What I was hearing was at odds with what was being reported in the media. My opinion was that this was blown out of all proportion by a media more interested in reporting stories than the truth. Reason being is that the truth don't sell many papers. Journalists want to be at the forefront of 'The' big story whatever it is. If there isn't one, then they will bloody well engineer it. The reporting in Bahrain was vintage Damien Day out of DtDD.

Damien Day - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ2bvR3BT_g)

[Knock-on]

It's no different to being in Kensington during the London riots: you probably wouldn't have known there was a problem but that doesn't mean there wasn't any trouble. A few reporters have decided that just because they didn't see any violence, all was fine and dandy. Some of them are probably more worried about turning up in Spain only to find their paddock passes revoked at the turnstile. I'm sure some other parts of the media have over-exaggerated the issue, and the truth lies somewhere in between.

But it's ludicrous for the likes of Jackie Stewart, Joe Saward, and anybody else with those initials to pretend there isn't a problem.


Totally agree Dave. I have no alliance to the Bahrain Government or Royal Family. I think they are as full of crap as the media. All I have done on this and the other threads is to refuse to condemn them on the 'evidence' reported in our media which is at odds with what I understood was actually going on. The impression I have is that change is happening in the region. I cannot prove this as some posters demand and Im not really too bothered about the situation either. If there really was a full scale bloody crisis then I would be bothered but I think this is a country that is evolving in a fairly manageable way. There is violence on both sides and there have been wrongs. These things happen but leave it to the Bahraini people to sort out, not us.

What would have been a terrible mistake was if F1 was cancelled because of a threat from people looking to hijack F1 for political purposes. That would leave F1 and other sporting events susceptible to blackmail by any extreme group around the world.

[ArrowsFA1]

What would have been a terrible mistake was if F1 was cancelled because of a threat from people looking to hijack F1 for political purposes. That would leave F1 and other sporting events susceptible to blackmail by any extreme group around the world.
But isn't that what has happened, except rather than an "extreme group" it was a government who "hijacked F1 for political purposes" aided and abetted by the FIA.

[BDunnell]

What would have been a terrible mistake was if F1 was cancelled because of a threat from people looking to hijack F1 for political purposes. That would leave F1 and other sporting events susceptible to blackmail by any extreme group around the world.

Why would it have been unacceptable in your eyes for the race to have been cancelled as a result of one group hijacking the race for political purposes, when you consider it entirely acceptable for it to have gone ahead having been hijacked for political purposes by another group, namely the regime? You can't have it both ways.

[Malbec]

...and that is why they sat out 2011
but in 2012 the issues had subsided and only flared up because the race was coming to town

Not staging the race would have been politicising it.

So according to you we should not hold any races in any countries with political problems, even if they occured a year ago.
Last I checked Russia is still having major terrorist problems and an ongoing conflict with georgia and other former states,
I don't hear anyone questioning holding the race there

Al Quedia always threatens and in fact bombed london and madrid, no calling off the races those years

China has ongoing issues, too many to list
Malaysia has a separatist problem that flares up from time to time

For over 25 years the IRA had an ongoing war with England that resulted in many terrorist acts.
According to them they are fighting for the independence of Northern Island from British rule...races go on

Turkey got fined for its cypres stunt, but that has not ended their issues in that region. Kurds, Iraq border, etc.

India has all kinds of issues... race was staged

I could go on and on,
The point is, there is conflict all over the world
If it flared up like it did last year in Bahrain, then cancel the race, and I was with that decision
But this is now a year later and things have calmed down significantly, there are still issues in the country no doubt, but not staging the race would be a bigger political act than staging it and would set a terrible precedent in terms of F1 and politics. The crown prince, right or wrong can talk all he wants during the race weekend and as the crown prince can hand over the winners trophy too. It just smacks of sanctimony imo for those against holding the race. Don't kid yourself if you don't think other governments or heads of state use the f1 weekend as an opportunity to paint pictures of their nation etc.

btw you did not answer my question as to whether the Euro's should be stages since we now have terrorist bombings in the Ukraine.
Best to stay out of the region and not get into the politics right?

Firstly you need to be able to tell the difference between countries that have political problems (which is most of them) and those that seek to exploit F1 races for political means which is limited to two examples.

I suggest you look through the other Bahrain thread as frankly I have little interest in going over old ground.

As for Ukraine, sadly I don't think there are many major sporting events that do not attract some kind of unwanted terrorism attention. However as I understand it Ukraine does not have ongoing problems with major violent revolts, nor is it seeking to use the Euro tournament for political means. Hence your use of it to illustrate your argument indicates that you don't really seem to understand the exact reason why Bahrain should not have gone ahead.

[Knock-on]

I think you forgot to add 'IMHO' at the end there fella because that's all it is.

[truefan72]

Firstly you need to be able to tell the difference between countries that have political problems (which is most of them) and those that seek to exploit F1 races for political means which is limited to two examples.

I suggest you look through the other Bahrain thread as frankly I have little interest in going over old ground.

As for Ukraine, sadly I don't think there are many major sporting events that do not attract some kind of unwanted terrorism attention. However as I understand it Ukraine does not have ongoing problems with major violent revolts, nor is it seeking to use the Euro tournament for political means. Hence your use of it to illustrate your argument indicates that you don't really seem to understand the exact reason why Bahrain should not have gone ahead.

1. many countries seek to exploit the race for political means. Some their motives are not clear, others more transparent

2. you have little interest going over old ground, because your argument is both rather naive and myopic IMO. Bahrain is not the first, nor will it be the last country to go through political turmoil, and the fact that A YEAR has past since the major problems seems to be lost on you. So how long should they not stage the race? 2 years 5, 10? until no civic unrest or discomfort exists in the country. Or until the western governments with their own Agenda tell you its all good. How about the issues with Abu Dhabi and their migrant (practically slave labor) worker issues. Heck the track was built by those folks. Where was your outcry then?

3. You sir, are speculating and quite frankly don't know what you are talking about. Have you heard of the Orange Revolution. Or the ongoing imprisonment of the former prime minister, who's followers are pretty much the agitators and a constant source of turmoil within the country that spills into public life.

I don't want to turn this forum into a political discussion. All I notice is the hypocrisy and somewhat narrow-minded views regarding this particular race that are troubling. I'm no fan of the Bahrain government, but I won't pretend either that underlying political issues don't exist elsewhere. And it seems quite astonishing that some here have chosen to make this particular race their cause celeb.

But the race is over, so time to move on methinks...until next year

[truefan72]

What would have been a terrible mistake was if F1 was cancelled because of a threat from people looking to hijack F1 for political purposes. That would leave F1 and other sporting events susceptible to blackmail by any extreme group around the world.

well said
my point exactly, that others (... cough malbec) simply ignore

[BDunnell]

well said
my point exactly, that others (... cough malbec) simply ignore

Just as you simply ignore the point about how the Bahrain race was itself hijacked by the country's own regime for its own ends in a fashion that was simply unprecedented. Surely you must accept that?

[Malbec]

1. many countries seek to exploit the race for political means. Some their motives are not clear, others more transparent

And none clearly more transparent than Bahrain surely. The rule exists, why not enforce it for such a clear violation?


2. you have little interest going over old ground, because your argument is both rather naive and myopic IMO. Bahrain is not the first, nor will it be the last country to go through political turmoil, and the fact that A YEAR has past since the major problems seems to be lost on you. So how long should they not stage the race? 2 years 5, 10? until no civic unrest or discomfort exists in the country. Or until the western governments with their own Agenda tell you its all good. How about the issues with Abu Dhabi and their migrant (practically slave labor) worker issues. Heck the track was built by those folks. Where was your outcry then?

I've addressed your points before, sorry you missed all the action and debate. I don't see why I should waste time because you can't be bothered to read stuff already posted. No point in duplicating work already done I'm afraid.

You also talk retrospectively with the race having gone without disruption. Where were you before the race claiming that there would be little violence? What about the means the Bahrainis were threatening to use to ensure the race was run?

As for Abu Dhabi and the other UAE states, yes I'm aware of the plight of Indian subcontinent workers which is one of the many reasons I refuse to go there and enrich the ruling parties there with my money. You are however again confusing the separate issues of political problems and the use of races to promote a particular political agenda. Is this point getting through?


3. You sir, are speculating and quite frankly don't know what you are talking about. Have you heard of the Orange Revolution. Or the ongoing imprisonment of the former prime minister, who's followers are pretty much the agitators and a constant source of turmoil within the country that spills into public life.

Speculating about what?

Yes I'm perfectly aware of what is going on in Ukraine, the imprisonment of the former PM and her physical mistreatment even now as well as the long running interference by Russia.

What I'm not seeing though is Ukraine claiming all will be hunky dory with the Euro tournament. Can you see the difference (clearly not)


I don't want to turn this forum into a political discussion. All I notice is the hypocrisy and somewhat narrow-minded views regarding this particular race that are troubling.

Likewise I find the views of those who see little problem with the race equally troubling.


I'm no fan of the Bahrain government, but I won't pretend either that underlying political issues don't exist elsewhere.

Good, we can agree on something. Not once have I claimed that political issues don't exist in other countries, the opposite in fact.

[BDunnell]

Yes I'm perfectly aware of what is going on in Ukraine, the imprisonment of the former PM and her physical mistreatment even now as well as the long running interference by Russia.

What I'm not seeing though is Ukraine claiming all will be hunky dory with the Euro tournament. Can you see the difference (clearly not)

What I'm also not seeing is the Ukrainian government claiming that its hosting of the Euros will in any sense solve the country's problems.



Likewise I find the views of those who see little problem with the race equally troubling.

I find them far more troubling than the opposing viewpoint, not least because the view that it was OK to go ahead was almost always bound up with the utterly naive argument that 'sport and politics shouldn't mix', one that should be dismissed out of hand by anyone with a grasp of political and sporting reality as demonstrated over the course of decades.

[Knock-on]

Truefan sums it up much better than I could.

I'm glad the race went ahead and am looking forward to next year.

Final word from me on the subject is that the aftermath portrays a picture diametrically opposed to the one the sensational tabloids and news production media paint. Lets look at next years race which I am sure will be a very different story.

[F1boat]

Truefan sums it up much better than I could.

I'm glad the race went ahead and am looking forward to next year.


Still I prefer Imola to countries like Bahrain or even Turkey, which had well organized race almost without political problems. But yes, I kind of agree with you and truefan.

[ArrowsFA1]

In the aftermath of Bahrain perhaps sport will become even more politicised.

Euro 2012 faces diplomatic crisis over Ukraine's jailed opposition leader | World news | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/apr/30/euro-2012-ukraine-diplomatic-crisis)

[BDunnell]

In the aftermath of Bahrain perhaps sport will become even more politicised.

Euro 2012 faces diplomatic crisis over Ukraine's jailed opposition leader | World news | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/apr/30/euro-2012-ukraine-diplomatic-crisis)

And here is another example of an event that ought not to be going ahead — at least, in one of its host countries. How interesting that here we see genuine international pressure being brought to bear. Maybe those who claim Bahrain to have been a suitable GP venue could enlighten us as to how the Tymoshenko matter is being exaggerated by the Western media for its own ends? After all, if said media is so irresponsible in its reporting on one issue, surely it stands to reason that this must apply to all issues? Or should we simply 'not care'?

[wedge]

Final word from me on the subject is that the aftermath portrays a picture diametrically opposed to the one the sensational tabloids and news production media paint. Lets look at next years race which I am sure will be a very different story.

Apart from sensationalism by sticking it on top of the news agenda as had most media outlets, the BBC and especially the analysis by Frank Gardner handled it rather well despite the so-called left-wing bias.

As for future races, unless there is greater change and equality then the whiff of something rotten in the state of Bahrain will not go away.

[Matt G UK]

Pardon a noob for sticking his oar in here...the problem with Bahrain at the moment is that that regime in particular is in the crosshairs of the human rights groups for better or worse, for more details on my thoughts(annoyed with the attitude of both Bernie and some human rights activists) check this out: Where does F1 go from here? (http://www.mattgsplace.net/sport/Formula%201/WDFGFH.htm)